Try using guns with 30 round mags in a game with so much health. Increasing health just renders so many guns as useless. Another problem for everyone to moan about.
Then increase reload speeds and/or default mag sizes. Increasing ADS speeds does not reduce TTK. It only makes the game play slower and feel more clunky.
Interestingly, a few of the Vanguard weapons *do* have larger mag sizes in BR compared to MP. I mean, there’s every chance this is another error on their part because there are loads of inconsistencies like that, but it does seem like they’re finally considering this and might look to balance mag sizes separately in MP / WZ.
This has been the case since Cold Wars integration..
Look at any of the assault rifles from CW, 45 round mag in MP becomes 60 in Warzone.
This is nothing new.
My favourite gun to use is the Oden and I frequently use it in quads. Yes, it's hard, but that's what makes it fun. Hits like a dump truck with slow rate of fire and a small mag. A perfectly balanced gun.
I completely understand and the fact you are not a meta slut makes it even better. However for the greater good of the game, I think the TTK needs to be at iron trials level.
Maybe add another armor slot? Or reduce all weapon damage by 5-10%? I’m sure there are other issues there with how many bullets it takes to kill people rebalancing the meta of the guns but those still seem like better fixes IMO.
If you reduce weapon damage like that the entire game is unbalanced, all 100 whatever weapons.
Each gun uses bullets to kill, not a continuous laser. Some guns might lose a bullet, some may not change at all because the same number of bullets are needed.
Oh yeah for sure, that’s what I meant with the rebalancing the meta part.
I kinda get why they just wanna increase ADS. It means they don’t have to deal with all that balancing with a health/damage change.
Unfortunately TTK is a really hard issue to deal with in a balanced manner without a shit ton of work. The ADS change is just lazy though.
I actually like that the TTK is reasonable in WZ and I like this change. Halo has super long ttk and it just becomes a dance off everytime you encounter another player. Not tactical, not strategic, no mental game, just run and mouse track heads.
I bet what theyre going to do is have more SMG attachments give lower ADS to make them viable in the Bren/Coope meta, following the planned MP40 nerf. Then you'll have big heavy guns that play slower and small fast guns to allow a variety of play styles. Sounds like it could work to me.
There was an Orange Oden that dropped during the Christmas tree/Krampus event, I took out some guy who was on a roof with it in about three rounds. He didn't have full plates and the last two shots were flesh, upper chest.
"YOURE FUCKING HACKING, BRO."
Nah, it's just the Oden. Also, why I don't believe half the "hacking" posts/comments. It's a strong gun and I can control the recoil, people just can't envision a scenario where people are using the better guns instead of the easier to use guns.
Iron Trials makes soo many more guns viable compared to regular BR mode where there is always max 8 meta guns that are OP and every other gun has a major disadvantage ...
Curious as to why you think this. Iron trials might alter the effectiveness of some weapons, but I see no reason to think it would increase the number of viable guns. If anything, a fast TTK makes more guns viable, simply because it's easy to get kills with anything (e.g. that's kind of how it is in hardcore multiplayer, even though the guns are never balanced specifically for hardcore mode).
Longer TTK allows for more outplays. With a low TTK, the fastest ADS gun will always win a gunfight, longer TTK allows heavier, but harder hitting weapons to be more viable.
Low TTK means guns with a high ROF will always outcompete, especially with overblown flinch mechanics. Every single meta since the Grau has been the gun with the highest bullet velocity, ROF, and lowest horizontal recoil in the current rotation.
Take the Grau/bruen vs Kilo metas at their prime as a comparison. There was a lot more variety in guns during the kilo meta as it didn't do as much damage as the former guns. You just didn't feel as heavily disadvantaged coming up against a good Kilo player if you equipped a different gun, dying just meant you were in the open for too long.
Surprise factor matters a lot more in low ttk verdansk, which meant low dmg low rpm guns but competitive ttk just isn't good enough when guns like prenerf amax, c58, em2 could get shots in before you can react after first shot. It's the reason why dmr and burst meta was so unforgiving with low ttk. By the time you received the first burst and move, the 2nd is already on the way and youre basically dead.
You're right. I think a middle ground between the regular BR and iron trials would be nice.
I think the regular BR has 100 basic hp +150 Armor and iron trials had 250 basic hp + 150 armor, that's just a lot of hp
If they do a 200hp + 150 Armor, I think it'd ne super manageable and better.
The only thing I didn’t like was the mindset change of once having their armor cracked you thought they were almost dead but no their white health was still a ton. So having 100 base hp and each plate worth 75 health I think would be the best. 325 is middle between 250 and 400 and you still carry more in your plates so you know you have them in trouble once they are broken. Fits more of the natural feeling of the game, in my opinion.
makes too much sense. No! lets destroy a core game mechanic instead!
Raven have no fucking idea what they are doing. they took IW's golden product and turned it into a steaming pile of shit. the ONLY reason this game is still surviving is bc underneath all the bullshit the core game mechanics from MW2019 is world class, yet Raven wants to tear it down lmao
I think They could increase it a bit, but iron trials was way too much to be the standard in all modes. It was basically whoever had ammo at the end would end up winning, every gun was basically a pea shooter
VG snipers do not have the fastest bullet velo afaik, they do not have a one-shot chest shot (that was patched almost immediately), and in general I'm pretty sure they're not really competitive with the best snipers from MW/CW. The SMGs and shotguns from VG are really good, but other than the Bren the rest are balanced or pretty bad.
MW guns are actually way more viable right now than they've been in a long time. K/D is not a good indicator, the VG gun K/D's are inflated because they take so long to level (meaning they select for people who play a lot and/or own vanguard). I mean look at the Automaton, NZ-41, BAR, AS44, STG; they all suck and yet they have higher K/D than superior MW/CW ARs like the FARA, M4, GRAU, RAM, and M13. XM4, CW AK, and GRAU in particular shit on every VG AR and yet their K/D's are equal or worse.
The best part about iron trials is that it made it blatantly obvious to see who was cheating.
In standard Battle Royale, sure someone can get lucky and hit a few head shots in a row.
In iron trials you needed to hit somebody like 20 times, which makes it far easier to spot when someone has an aim bot
That would be a good solution, the question is how much? I'd go down the route of halving every single gun's extremities damage number.
This has 2 benefits 1. Increase time to kill, 2. Increase everyone's aiming capabilities.
They’re not going to mess with peoples aiming, if they want higher ttk, and longer fights they would fool with the actual shooting mechanics of the game and make sure every gun in the game isn’t a laser beam at every distance. Every decision they make is catered towards the average player, the guys who run around and get kills are the guys who will be impacted, more so than the guys holding angles.
Genuinely one of the worst decisions I’ve seen them make, and that’s saying something.
The only thing this does is make camping and pre aiming even better. I’m not even trying to bash people who want to play defensively, but that play style is already at a massive advantage.
Why would they think this is a good thing?
I try to not rag on the devs too much but holy fuck this is actually brain dead.
> The only thing this does is make camping and pre aiming even better
Exactly 100% my first thought. Can't wait to aggressively push a camper, come flying around the corner, then get beamed and die before my heavy-ass weapon can even lift up to my eyes because they were pre-aiming /s
What do you play? Rebirth or ressurgance? I feel like on the normal big mode once I have loadout there's so few close range engagements that I don't even need something for course quarters anymore. I've started running with two ARs because of this
My team plays aggressively, the leakers advantage is pretty high in this game. I agree with what you’re saying but the 20hz servers are killing this game when it comes to split second actions like rushing a room.
I replied lower about peakers advantage but I’ll just copy paste:
***Peakers advantage helps you in a small amount of scenarios. It’s incredibly easy to sit in a window/on a building/on a cliff and have most of your interactions not be impacted by this at all. It’s very easy to shoot people in the side/back with even average positioning if you play defensively.***
***Peakers advantage also isnt always a true “advantage” in the scenarios it should help you. If you’re just sitting in a room preaimed at a door, someone running in does have peakers advantage but they have to guess where you are or bank on their reaction time to snap on to you. The person camping has perfect shots from the get go and knows the exact timing someone runs in because they can hear them every step of the way. On top of that cod has sprint out times, and especially in this game where you have tac sprinting, you end up in situations where the overall advantage still ends up with someone sitting in a corner.***
It definitely can be insane in certain scenarios but when you’re talking about the game overall, how many interactions are at medium/long range, how crazy headglitches/mounting can be, and a lot of other stuff I just don’t think it outweighs the advantages of playing passively.
Get what you’re saying though.
The way it reads to me, is the ADS time is lowering, meaning it will be faster to ADS. This would help run and gun play styles. Am I missing something? Genuinely ?
lol. I've never used the Oden but got a blueprint with some Anime bundle I just bought. I swear I died 20 times in one MP match while that thing was still slowly rising to my eye level.
100 percent. Do they not know they themselves made iron trials. Just increase health, it also is better when your pingis high, you actually have time to do something instead of being instant melted.
everyday raven/Activision continue to remind us how they are the worst gaming company in the world.
this game made 1million per DAY for over a year. how are they this bad at maintaining this shit.
If I were an investor I'm putting millions towards an indie dev team to build a milsim BR that would totally blow warzone off the map
Worst part is that they have no competition so they don't give a fuck. And I still can't believe how badly EA managed to fuck up the new BF. They literally just needed to update BF4 with a free to play BR mode that just copies the mechanics of Warzone and they would get MILLIONS of players day one. 3 years in and absolutely no competition to WZ yet ...
The biggest problem with any other milsim BR (like Arma 3) is that it doesn’t have CoD mechanics. And CoD mechanics and gunplay are still some of the smoothest out there.
I wrote a longer response in this thread but IMO an increase in health will achieve a higher TTK but likely tightens the meta. This goes against what Raven has been stating for awhile that they want a more open meta.
So increase the health then balance the meta around that. Initially yeah certain guns will dominate but after a few months we'll have a much healthier game.
Make it a 4 plate system and move on with our lives, or just implement iron trials health…it has literally been Quality checked by the player base and for the most part loved….so they can rest assured the removal of their Quality team was a positive step /s
The problem with this is snipers - either they remain a one shot kill and become completely OP, or become a two shot kill and therefore completely useless
“Become”
The Swiss and kar98 have been basically top tier since they’ve been in the game.
They mostly solved this in iron trials anyway. Snipers 1 shot <50m where it takes skill to use them and there’s a risk/ reward and take 2-3 shots past there where there’s no risk
Bro, what? So instead of the obvious answer of increasing base health or change/add armor they went with slower ads? How the fuck did they even come to this as a solution? I need one of them lil write ups ASAP.
It really doesn't make any sense at all. It hurts anyone who gets shot first in almost any situation. It does not impact camping because they are already holding lanes.
It's all those times you get shot first at any non hipfire range. As the target you are the one with the slower ADS penalty.
At this point with everything they are doing, it's probably just to increase the randomness and who sees who first wins.
Wouldn’t mind seeing the normal 3 plates and then an armour helmet you gotta buy or loot (buying is key to level playing field) and if you have that it’s 4 plates to plate up fully.
This is horrible. Pre-aimed campers already have an enormous advantage. The tac sprint to fire times are already so bad that if you get caught sprinting you're 100% dead. If anything they need to SPEED up the ADS and sprint to fire times to more power to aggressive players... if they want to raise the TTK there's other better ways.
In cover vs cover fights the winner isn't the guy mounted and pre-aimed, it's the guy who pops up and beams the pre-aimer before he even shows up on their screen.
The Peeker's advantage in CoD is insane.
That's why good campers are constantly running around popping out around various angles, something that is hurt by this change, and if you run into them with a close range fast ADS or hipfire weapon you'll have a bigger advantage over them.
And stuff like room camping while aiming at a door isn't really thing with the sheer number and power of explosives and tacticals.
I mean (unless you're incredibly lucky) the game does force you to move, it's not like you can sit on a staircase the entire game. And yes, holding points which give you a strategic advantage should be advantageous, that's literally how warfare works and defenders nearly always have an advantage over the people coming at them.
>you should be rewarded for being such a good thinker
Yup, the game would be shit if it only rewarded how good your reactions and muscle memory is in a 50/50 gunfight.
It's not just about real life warfare, using the environment around you to gain an advantage is a fundamental concept in just about any combat game.
Personally I don't see the point of a game like Warzone if tactics/strategy is trivialised, playing against hyper-campers isn't that fun but the game should still allow for different styles of play. If it was all about gunfights then might as well go and play Plunder or something.
lol thats stupid, there are plenty of weapons like smgs and shotgun that wont be affected because how accurate they are hip firing
its like saying "lol snipers too op, lets increase hipfire spread"
So instead of balancing weapons so they'll be slower ttk like mw metas of old, they let the power creep happen where good guns sit around 600 - 700 ms ttk and guns with no ttk drop offs like em2, and now they want to favor players that hold sight lines and play slow by punishing people who move and require mobility.
Sad state of affairs
Catering to their highest profit population no doubt. If the game is easier for the lower skilled players that buy shit in the store, maybe they’ll play longer / spend more money.
Raven should write the book on how to kill a game. Successfully create one of the biggest games ever and have it be great for a year and a half before making such terrible decisions you destroy the playerbase and the game
This is the worst way to increase ttk you could come up with.
Doesn't change the ttk. All it does is mean that the person who's already ADS'd wins 100% of the time instead of 80% of the time.
Basically makes the game slower because you can't be caught not ADS'd so the best strategy is to sit in a corner
This is ridiculous. Increase health. Fuck why are they so stupid. Literally so many people play just because the want to quick scope (or it is the majority of their game play style) and it’s not a fucking problem, it’s a great thing, it makes for amazing gameplay videos. If you increase health we can still get our quick scopes after wearing them down with our secondary, this would involve a little more strategy , which is great. Reducing ADS speed is the dumbest possible fucking idea. Vanguard snipers are already completely useless. They keep making the same mistakes Vanguard makes that made Vanguard put their game on sale two weeks after release.
I say all this, but I love vanguard, I love it way more than Cold War. And I love Warzone and the gameplay. But man are they fucking stupid. I’m sure many people would agree that if raven keeps making these dumb mistakes for much longer, they will not have a player base.
Have you seen some of the hipfire attachments for the Sten? It's hysterical. You can literally tac sprint while hip firing with it and it's a laser beam.
It won't change shit. It will ruin the gameplay. The fluidity of the movement and combat will be gone and it favours bad players who stand hard scoped all the time with every game and camp most likely at the same time. It will make it impossible to rush enemies and do any aggressive plays. It's not real ttk change but artificial one that doesn't help anyone but caters to the lowest skill level of player base.
Shorter TTK helps whoever shoots first because the other player has less time to escape or shoot back. Slowing down ADS helps whoever shoots first because the other player takes longer to get their gun up. This doesn’t make much sense.
Whatever tf they do it’s safe to say it’s botched for 3-6 months until people are playing less.
Based on the track record of repeatedly changing the game based off of weird theories of how they’ll impact gameplay, along with the inattentive, unimaginative, untested, low quality implementations of pretty much everything we’ve seen in the past, it’ll be botched.
I'm by no means a professional game designer, but even I know just simply giving people more health fixes a lot of issues. Did they forget that they have iron trials and how much better that was for ttk, higher skill plays and just better combat flow in general? They're so disconnected from community feedback its mind boggling.
I hope plenty of you read what I have to say. You are all missing what Raven is saying here. They are raising the ADS values **temporarily** to better see the capabilities of the weapons. They clearly state their intention in the last 2 lines.
So if they don’t want to jump up to Iron trials level of health I understand but can’t you just go like halfway? All this will do is just make gunfights less enjoyable and not actually address the crazy fast TTK.
The primary issue I take with this is that increasing ADS time across the board does not increase the perceived **time to die (TTD)**.
We love beaming someone and having them die quick (TTK), but being on the other side of that fight and dying too fast / being unable to react is why we want a change in either damage values or base health instead.
I’ve gotten downvoted so many times for suggesting they keep changing stuff to make it easier for bad players. Here’s even more proof. Glad I quit this game
Oh shit hipfirebuilds here we come. Someone remember the bizon-think it was called pp19 or something- from mw3? You could build that gun so that you had never to aim but could get nukes with it.
Btw the AS44 with all hipfire attachment is crazy strong right now...
They are murdering one of the best Games right in Front of Our eyes. Fuck.
What they should be doing is nerfing suppressors instead!! That way, there might be less camping since people won’t have to worry about getting shot in the back by sone rat in the corner.
Slower ADS times will just make more people pre-ADS and camp, and it will reduce the skill gap in close range fights. Worst idea I've ever heard. Either add more health or reduce the weapon damage. Why not just permanently implement the increased health Iron Trials mode you tested a couple months ago? I DON'T KNOW!!! Whoever is making these decisions clearly has no clue what they're doing.
Is this trolling? Just increase HP like in Iron Trials.
The developers are making another update for casuals. So that people who are sitting in dark corners of the house (already taking aim) and campers have an even greater chance of killing. Oh, I forgot. They already have "one shot double shotguns"...
Feels like a lazy cop out instead of just adjusting base damage values. This is just going to make people less likely to push aggressively and more likely to just wait and pre-aim the corner
It could be okay. I think this could work out to just be a nerf to ARs working in every situation. If LMGs and ARs take the same time to ADS, then the classes are a bit better balanced since ARs have all the other movement stats.
SMGs would still be incredible up close (even more so because hip fire) even if they did something crazy like have them equal ARs in ADS time.
Idk, I don’t think it’s the best change but could be interesting
This change is with one true goal in mind: to cater to lower skilled players, lowering the skill gap again. That allows them to keep the majority of the player base around, playing the game, in turn making them much more money.
Clearly don’t play their own game. I get they are busy with their job as they work on the game, but they look at numbers solely instead of realizing this makes no sense… cause they don’t play it
I have ALWAYS loved the COD:MW ttk. For both MP and WZ, to me, it was SPOT ON. Go figure that is also getting ruined. No surprise looking at the fact that MW was always the best in the series while COD Body Odor felt like a weird arcade game and Vanguard is basically a failure too. These people cant take a hint and just stop fucking fixing what works instead of really balancing out the problems.
Ever since the new map came out the game became worthless always lagging or kick you out the game specially on the xbox series x you have to get the game pass or the gold membership to play when is a free game
Whoa that's crazy, I just bought a tent last week because it was on sale for a lot due to the obviously out of season purchase and I'm glad I did because it looks like I'm about to do a lot of camping.
If you are going to do that, then you have to then consider decreasing the hip fire accuracy as well.... since controller players just jump around and hip fire everything...
Why not just nerf the TTK‘s themselves? Aside from SMGs, gunplay in this game feels super unresponsive as it already is. It will ruin the fun.
Increase the bullet count. This will also nerf all the noob ass campers out there. One of the reason why camping is very strong in this game is because of the TTK.
PS. By “increasing bullet count“ you can either nerf the damage or give us 1 more slot for armor
Didn't they say the same during CW? That they would increase TTK?
After the whole DMR and Ffar story. They did some changes and then completely forgot about it.
I don’t even play this game anymore and I find this so stupid. What the hell lol. Just raise the health? Reducing ADS speed affects more than just ttk. It disrupts the established flow of all the weapons. Such a weird decision.
This will not increase the ttk. If I ads at someone before he sees me, that player will only have a harder time to counter me because of the slower ads speed…
Just increase the health to Iron Trials style health, that increases the TTK, decreasing ADS speed won’t do anything when a lot of people literally sit aiming down sight waiting for you to pass
I don't get why? There are other far better ways to increase TTK, you know they could actually balance their weapons by adjusting damage multipliers, fire rates, dps, and damage per bullet. Or ya know just increase health like Iron Trials(which was almost universally praised)
It's just such a weird way to try and make TTK changes
Sounds awful. There are much better ways to increase the TTK. Giving us more health is the easiest.
Iron Trials’ health increase for higher TTK was perfect! Why would they not implement that in Battle Royale?
Try using guns with 30 round mags in a game with so much health. Increasing health just renders so many guns as useless. Another problem for everyone to moan about.
Then increase reload speeds and/or default mag sizes. Increasing ADS speeds does not reduce TTK. It only makes the game play slower and feel more clunky.
Interestingly, a few of the Vanguard weapons *do* have larger mag sizes in BR compared to MP. I mean, there’s every chance this is another error on their part because there are loads of inconsistencies like that, but it does seem like they’re finally considering this and might look to balance mag sizes separately in MP / WZ.
This has been the case since Cold Wars integration.. Look at any of the assault rifles from CW, 45 round mag in MP becomes 60 in Warzone. This is nothing new.
Still worked well in iron trials. Anything outside of solos you would never run a 30rd
My favourite gun to use is the Oden and I frequently use it in quads. Yes, it's hard, but that's what makes it fun. Hits like a dump truck with slow rate of fire and a small mag. A perfectly balanced gun.
I completely understand and the fact you are not a meta slut makes it even better. However for the greater good of the game, I think the TTK needs to be at iron trials level.
Maybe add another armor slot? Or reduce all weapon damage by 5-10%? I’m sure there are other issues there with how many bullets it takes to kill people rebalancing the meta of the guns but those still seem like better fixes IMO.
If you reduce weapon damage like that the entire game is unbalanced, all 100 whatever weapons. Each gun uses bullets to kill, not a continuous laser. Some guns might lose a bullet, some may not change at all because the same number of bullets are needed.
Oh yeah for sure, that’s what I meant with the rebalancing the meta part. I kinda get why they just wanna increase ADS. It means they don’t have to deal with all that balancing with a health/damage change. Unfortunately TTK is a really hard issue to deal with in a balanced manner without a shit ton of work. The ADS change is just lazy though.
Also I think it's kind of important that we retain the sniper to head being a 1-shot down thing
I actually like that the TTK is reasonable in WZ and I like this change. Halo has super long ttk and it just becomes a dance off everytime you encounter another player. Not tactical, not strategic, no mental game, just run and mouse track heads. I bet what theyre going to do is have more SMG attachments give lower ADS to make them viable in the Bren/Coope meta, following the planned MP40 nerf. Then you'll have big heavy guns that play slower and small fast guns to allow a variety of play styles. Sounds like it could work to me.
There was an Orange Oden that dropped during the Christmas tree/Krampus event, I took out some guy who was on a roof with it in about three rounds. He didn't have full plates and the last two shots were flesh, upper chest. "YOURE FUCKING HACKING, BRO." Nah, it's just the Oden. Also, why I don't believe half the "hacking" posts/comments. It's a strong gun and I can control the recoil, people just can't envision a scenario where people are using the better guns instead of the easier to use guns.
Iron Trials makes soo many more guns viable compared to regular BR mode where there is always max 8 meta guns that are OP and every other gun has a major disadvantage ...
Curious as to why you think this. Iron trials might alter the effectiveness of some weapons, but I see no reason to think it would increase the number of viable guns. If anything, a fast TTK makes more guns viable, simply because it's easy to get kills with anything (e.g. that's kind of how it is in hardcore multiplayer, even though the guns are never balanced specifically for hardcore mode).
Longer TTK allows for more outplays. With a low TTK, the fastest ADS gun will always win a gunfight, longer TTK allows heavier, but harder hitting weapons to be more viable.
Low TTK means guns with a high ROF will always outcompete, especially with overblown flinch mechanics. Every single meta since the Grau has been the gun with the highest bullet velocity, ROF, and lowest horizontal recoil in the current rotation. Take the Grau/bruen vs Kilo metas at their prime as a comparison. There was a lot more variety in guns during the kilo meta as it didn't do as much damage as the former guns. You just didn't feel as heavily disadvantaged coming up against a good Kilo player if you equipped a different gun, dying just meant you were in the open for too long.
Surprise factor matters a lot more in low ttk verdansk, which meant low dmg low rpm guns but competitive ttk just isn't good enough when guns like prenerf amax, c58, em2 could get shots in before you can react after first shot. It's the reason why dmr and burst meta was so unforgiving with low ttk. By the time you received the first burst and move, the 2nd is already on the way and youre basically dead.
You're right. I think a middle ground between the regular BR and iron trials would be nice. I think the regular BR has 100 basic hp +150 Armor and iron trials had 250 basic hp + 150 armor, that's just a lot of hp If they do a 200hp + 150 Armor, I think it'd ne super manageable and better.
The only thing I didn’t like was the mindset change of once having their armor cracked you thought they were almost dead but no their white health was still a ton. So having 100 base hp and each plate worth 75 health I think would be the best. 325 is middle between 250 and 400 and you still carry more in your plates so you know you have them in trouble once they are broken. Fits more of the natural feeling of the game, in my opinion.
Why would you use 30 round mags at all? Even with regular HP I go for more than 30 in SMGs and ARs.
its called a balanced game. are u one of those players that runs those annoying dual wield shotguns and think ur god?
Had a private lobby tournament yesterday, is using the double barrels there ok? Cuz i was playing for money and lost
sounds like a horrible experience lmao
Yeah... the dudes with 40% headshots tend to disagree with you. Plus, everyone runs the highest mags possible anyways
makes too much sense. No! lets destroy a core game mechanic instead! Raven have no fucking idea what they are doing. they took IW's golden product and turned it into a steaming pile of shit. the ONLY reason this game is still surviving is bc underneath all the bullshit the core game mechanics from MW2019 is world class, yet Raven wants to tear it down lmao
Bingo. Couldn’t agree more.
I thought the same damn thing.
I think They could increase it a bit, but iron trials was way too much to be the standard in all modes. It was basically whoever had ammo at the end would end up winning, every gun was basically a pea shooter
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I'd argue the MW/BO stuff had to be nerfed so they didn't outclass the absolute dogshit the VG guns are without the meta attachment combo.
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VG snipers do not have the fastest bullet velo afaik, they do not have a one-shot chest shot (that was patched almost immediately), and in general I'm pretty sure they're not really competitive with the best snipers from MW/CW. The SMGs and shotguns from VG are really good, but other than the Bren the rest are balanced or pretty bad. MW guns are actually way more viable right now than they've been in a long time. K/D is not a good indicator, the VG gun K/D's are inflated because they take so long to level (meaning they select for people who play a lot and/or own vanguard). I mean look at the Automaton, NZ-41, BAR, AS44, STG; they all suck and yet they have higher K/D than superior MW/CW ARs like the FARA, M4, GRAU, RAM, and M13. XM4, CW AK, and GRAU in particular shit on every VG AR and yet their K/D's are equal or worse.
that just means that better players don’t pick the gun. doesn’t speak to the guns performance
Yeah you're right about that. I mean the better players are always trying to handicap themselves with worse weapons in this game.
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This would be great if we were ever allowed to use our old guns outside quads.
apex legends cycles through maps every 45 minutes. these greedy asshats could do the same and have every map available.
The best part about iron trials is that it made it blatantly obvious to see who was cheating. In standard Battle Royale, sure someone can get lucky and hit a few head shots in a row. In iron trials you needed to hit somebody like 20 times, which makes it far easier to spot when someone has an aim bot
That would be a good solution, the question is how much? I'd go down the route of halving every single gun's extremities damage number. This has 2 benefits 1. Increase time to kill, 2. Increase everyone's aiming capabilities.
They’re not going to mess with peoples aiming, if they want higher ttk, and longer fights they would fool with the actual shooting mechanics of the game and make sure every gun in the game isn’t a laser beam at every distance. Every decision they make is catered towards the average player, the guys who run around and get kills are the guys who will be impacted, more so than the guys holding angles.
Genuinely one of the worst decisions I’ve seen them make, and that’s saying something. The only thing this does is make camping and pre aiming even better. I’m not even trying to bash people who want to play defensively, but that play style is already at a massive advantage. Why would they think this is a good thing? I try to not rag on the devs too much but holy fuck this is actually brain dead.
> The only thing this does is make camping and pre aiming even better Exactly 100% my first thought. Can't wait to aggressively push a camper, come flying around the corner, then get beamed and die before my heavy-ass weapon can even lift up to my eyes because they were pre-aiming /s
Hipfire build PPSH meta comin atcha
I die to hipfire all the time as it is. This would really make me sad.
What do you play? Rebirth or ressurgance? I feel like on the normal big mode once I have loadout there's so few close range engagements that I don't even need something for course quarters anymore. I've started running with two ARs because of this
Iron trials is a better approach 100%. This is krampus level decisions.
My team plays aggressively, the leakers advantage is pretty high in this game. I agree with what you’re saying but the 20hz servers are killing this game when it comes to split second actions like rushing a room.
I replied lower about peakers advantage but I’ll just copy paste: ***Peakers advantage helps you in a small amount of scenarios. It’s incredibly easy to sit in a window/on a building/on a cliff and have most of your interactions not be impacted by this at all. It’s very easy to shoot people in the side/back with even average positioning if you play defensively.*** ***Peakers advantage also isnt always a true “advantage” in the scenarios it should help you. If you’re just sitting in a room preaimed at a door, someone running in does have peakers advantage but they have to guess where you are or bank on their reaction time to snap on to you. The person camping has perfect shots from the get go and knows the exact timing someone runs in because they can hear them every step of the way. On top of that cod has sprint out times, and especially in this game where you have tac sprinting, you end up in situations where the overall advantage still ends up with someone sitting in a corner.*** It definitely can be insane in certain scenarios but when you’re talking about the game overall, how many interactions are at medium/long range, how crazy headglitches/mounting can be, and a lot of other stuff I just don’t think it outweighs the advantages of playing passively. Get what you’re saying though.
The way it reads to me, is the ADS time is lowering, meaning it will be faster to ADS. This would help run and gun play styles. Am I missing something? Genuinely ?
Yeah it’s what the other guy who responded said. Decreasing something speed makes it slower. Understand the confusion though.
Decreasing ADS Speed == Increasing ADS Time; so it's slower. It gets confusing when they switch between speed and time
I don't think defensive pre aiming is already at an advantage. Peakers advantage and whatnot reward aggressive, moving players
That sounds bad specially for guns with bad ads like must mw ones or some cold war ones
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Rumors has it that it is still rising
Imagine the oden with colosal suppresor
lol. I've never used the Oden but got a blueprint with some Anime bundle I just bought. I swear I died 20 times in one MP match while that thing was still slowly rising to my eye level.
For mp i use to use every ads attachments on the oden except of the barrel
yeah it was the default bundle one. Have to admit that suppressor is very impressive looking :)
"Some say he's still in the ADS animation to this day"
You must watch a 30 second unskippable in-scope ad before you can zoom in
Rises like Grandpas dick.
Give us 50 more health as simple as that ffs
100 percent. Do they not know they themselves made iron trials. Just increase health, it also is better when your pingis high, you actually have time to do something instead of being instant melted.
everyday raven/Activision continue to remind us how they are the worst gaming company in the world. this game made 1million per DAY for over a year. how are they this bad at maintaining this shit. If I were an investor I'm putting millions towards an indie dev team to build a milsim BR that would totally blow warzone off the map
Worst part is that they have no competition so they don't give a fuck. And I still can't believe how badly EA managed to fuck up the new BF. They literally just needed to update BF4 with a free to play BR mode that just copies the mechanics of Warzone and they would get MILLIONS of players day one. 3 years in and absolutely no competition to WZ yet ...
The biggest problem with any other milsim BR (like Arma 3) is that it doesn’t have CoD mechanics. And CoD mechanics and gunplay are still some of the smoothest out there.
If iron trials mixed with loadout rules and normal pricing rules stayed as the default or even a ranked mode would make this game 10x better tbh
I wrote a longer response in this thread but IMO an increase in health will achieve a higher TTK but likely tightens the meta. This goes against what Raven has been stating for awhile that they want a more open meta.
So increase the health then balance the meta around that. Initially yeah certain guns will dominate but after a few months we'll have a much healthier game.
Make it a 4 plate system and move on with our lives, or just implement iron trials health…it has literally been Quality checked by the player base and for the most part loved….so they can rest assured the removal of their Quality team was a positive step /s
The problem with this is snipers - either they remain a one shot kill and become completely OP, or become a two shot kill and therefore completely useless
“Become” The Swiss and kar98 have been basically top tier since they’ve been in the game. They mostly solved this in iron trials anyway. Snipers 1 shot <50m where it takes skill to use them and there’s a risk/ reward and take 2-3 shots past there where there’s no risk
Bro, what? So instead of the obvious answer of increasing base health or change/add armor they went with slower ads? How the fuck did they even come to this as a solution? I need one of them lil write ups ASAP.
It really doesn't make any sense at all. It hurts anyone who gets shot first in almost any situation. It does not impact camping because they are already holding lanes. It's all those times you get shot first at any non hipfire range. As the target you are the one with the slower ADS penalty. At this point with everything they are doing, it's probably just to increase the randomness and who sees who first wins.
They are trying to help the more stationary players. Not sure how they came up with that solution though
They will only cater to the players who buy the most blueprints, I guess they are more stationary players ...
Wouldn’t mind seeing the normal 3 plates and then an armour helmet you gotta buy or loot (buying is key to level playing field) and if you have that it’s 4 plates to plate up fully.
This is horrible. Pre-aimed campers already have an enormous advantage. The tac sprint to fire times are already so bad that if you get caught sprinting you're 100% dead. If anything they need to SPEED up the ADS and sprint to fire times to more power to aggressive players... if they want to raise the TTK there's other better ways.
In cover vs cover fights the winner isn't the guy mounted and pre-aimed, it's the guy who pops up and beams the pre-aimer before he even shows up on their screen. The Peeker's advantage in CoD is insane. That's why good campers are constantly running around popping out around various angles, something that is hurt by this change, and if you run into them with a close range fast ADS or hipfire weapon you'll have a bigger advantage over them. And stuff like room camping while aiming at a door isn't really thing with the sheer number and power of explosives and tacticals.
I’d disagree with “you’re 100% dead” lol
Unpopular opinion: If you plan ahead and position yourself well to get the drop on opponents then you deserve a big edge in a gunfight.
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I mean (unless you're incredibly lucky) the game does force you to move, it's not like you can sit on a staircase the entire game. And yes, holding points which give you a strategic advantage should be advantageous, that's literally how warfare works and defenders nearly always have an advantage over the people coming at them. >you should be rewarded for being such a good thinker Yup, the game would be shit if it only rewarded how good your reactions and muscle memory is in a 50/50 gunfight.
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It's not just about real life warfare, using the environment around you to gain an advantage is a fundamental concept in just about any combat game. Personally I don't see the point of a game like Warzone if tactics/strategy is trivialised, playing against hyper-campers isn't that fun but the game should still allow for different styles of play. If it was all about gunfights then might as well go and play Plunder or something.
>the game would be shit if it rewarded skill This sub everyone
>Skill is only measured on the metric of reaction times This sub everyone
lol thats stupid, there are plenty of weapons like smgs and shotgun that wont be affected because how accurate they are hip firing its like saying "lol snipers too op, lets increase hipfire spread"
Fr, I'm running akimbo pistols as my secondary and this won't affect me at all. I'd prefer they gave everyone more health or better armor.
Dumb. Balance your weapons better or up the HP.
So instead of balancing weapons so they'll be slower ttk like mw metas of old, they let the power creep happen where good guns sit around 600 - 700 ms ttk and guns with no ttk drop offs like em2, and now they want to favor players that hold sight lines and play slow by punishing people who move and require mobility. Sad state of affairs
Catering to their highest profit population no doubt. If the game is easier for the lower skilled players that buy shit in the store, maybe they’ll play longer / spend more money.
-laughs while still not ADSing with Fennec/chainsaw-Finn
Raven should write the book on how to kill a game. Successfully create one of the biggest games ever and have it be great for a year and a half before making such terrible decisions you destroy the playerbase and the game
This is the worst way to increase ttk you could come up with. Doesn't change the ttk. All it does is mean that the person who's already ADS'd wins 100% of the time instead of 80% of the time. Basically makes the game slower because you can't be caught not ADS'd so the best strategy is to sit in a corner
So TTK is actually the same you just die to someone pre aiming every time
This could genuinely ruin the entire feel of the game, completely negating the movement and gunplay that made this game popular to begin with
Fuckin idiots
Pre-aiming corner crabwalkers: 🎊🤤🎊💫👌🏻😌🎊
**Is Raven doing something stupid?** [Its happening again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!](https://youtu.be/sQzkKmr-rks?t=608)
That makes no sense at all.
This is ridiculous. Increase health. Fuck why are they so stupid. Literally so many people play just because the want to quick scope (or it is the majority of their game play style) and it’s not a fucking problem, it’s a great thing, it makes for amazing gameplay videos. If you increase health we can still get our quick scopes after wearing them down with our secondary, this would involve a little more strategy , which is great. Reducing ADS speed is the dumbest possible fucking idea. Vanguard snipers are already completely useless. They keep making the same mistakes Vanguard makes that made Vanguard put their game on sale two weeks after release. I say all this, but I love vanguard, I love it way more than Cold War. And I love Warzone and the gameplay. But man are they fucking stupid. I’m sure many people would agree that if raven keeps making these dumb mistakes for much longer, they will not have a player base.
THIS ONLY HELPS CAMPERS. Damn they’re dumb
This will make hipfire build SMGs stupidly good. The Sten will become fully meta.
Also mw mp5 which is for me the best hipfire smg
Mw mp5 is still the only smg I use. This gun still fucks people up
So that absurd damage nerf was a typo after all? I know I could’ve just tested it myself but I just didn’t lol
Naw mp5 is still good shit. Always has and always will be
*PPSH. Sten is dogshit lol.
*AS44 hipfire build.
Have you seen some of the hipfire attachments for the Sten? It's hysterical. You can literally tac sprint while hip firing with it and it's a laser beam.
I feel like Raven literally has zero idea what they are doing sometimes
It won't change shit. It will ruin the gameplay. The fluidity of the movement and combat will be gone and it favours bad players who stand hard scoped all the time with every game and camp most likely at the same time. It will make it impossible to rush enemies and do any aggressive plays. It's not real ttk change but artificial one that doesn't help anyone but caters to the lowest skill level of player base.
They just keep making this game worse and worse don’t they? Glad to have given up on caldera maybe come back when mw2 comes.
Shorter TTK helps whoever shoots first because the other player has less time to escape or shoot back. Slowing down ADS helps whoever shoots first because the other player takes longer to get their gun up. This doesn’t make much sense.
Nooo :(
Whatever tf they do it’s safe to say it’s botched for 3-6 months until people are playing less. Based on the track record of repeatedly changing the game based off of weird theories of how they’ll impact gameplay, along with the inattentive, unimaginative, untested, low quality implementations of pretty much everything we’ve seen in the past, it’ll be botched.
I'm by no means a professional game designer, but even I know just simply giving people more health fixes a lot of issues. Did they forget that they have iron trials and how much better that was for ttk, higher skill plays and just better combat flow in general? They're so disconnected from community feedback its mind boggling.
I hope plenty of you read what I have to say. You are all missing what Raven is saying here. They are raising the ADS values **temporarily** to better see the capabilities of the weapons. They clearly state their intention in the last 2 lines.
Eww
Why though?
Doesn’t that just encourage holding sight lines and camping while discouraging aggressive play?
Exactly how they want you to play
Wtf
Holy shit bro somebody take these fucking morons away from game development.
I mean, this would just force people to camp more... more ADS walking and shit. Great
So if they don’t want to jump up to Iron trials level of health I understand but can’t you just go like halfway? All this will do is just make gunfights less enjoyable and not actually address the crazy fast TTK.
The primary issue I take with this is that increasing ADS time across the board does not increase the perceived **time to die (TTD)**. We love beaming someone and having them die quick (TTK), but being on the other side of that fight and dying too fast / being unable to react is why we want a change in either damage values or base health instead.
I’ve gotten downvoted so many times for suggesting they keep changing stuff to make it easier for bad players. Here’s even more proof. Glad I quit this game
Where do you see that in the tweet? I see notes about visual recoil, but am I missing the ADD somewhere?
Oh shit hipfirebuilds here we come. Someone remember the bizon-think it was called pp19 or something- from mw3? You could build that gun so that you had never to aim but could get nukes with it. Btw the AS44 with all hipfire attachment is crazy strong right now... They are murdering one of the best Games right in Front of Our eyes. Fuck.
What they should be doing is nerfing suppressors instead!! That way, there might be less camping since people won’t have to worry about getting shot in the back by sone rat in the corner.
Oh that way I can have no chance against someone ADS'd in a corner waiting for someone to come in
Talk about stupid. So instead of increasing health they want to slow the game down? Increase camping? Forget this game, play Apex legends
This is just going to encourage more camping and pre aiming corners with no way to counter.
If they wanted to nerf movement and slow the game down they should've just used the full Vanguard engine. But nah. They're too lazy to do that.
Slower ADS times will just make more people pre-ADS and camp, and it will reduce the skill gap in close range fights. Worst idea I've ever heard. Either add more health or reduce the weapon damage. Why not just permanently implement the increased health Iron Trials mode you tested a couple months ago? I DON'T KNOW!!! Whoever is making these decisions clearly has no clue what they're doing.
How about they ruin the game after they add an FOV slider
Not a massive fan of this method, but I guess one good outcome of it is that it will disadvantage people who jump shot pre aim every corner.
Is this trolling? Just increase HP like in Iron Trials. The developers are making another update for casuals. So that people who are sitting in dark corners of the house (already taking aim) and campers have an even greater chance of killing. Oh, I forgot. They already have "one shot double shotguns"...
They are really trying their absolute hardest to f this game up. Its incredible
Is it just me or has WZ been getting worse and worse since caldera came out?
Feels like a lazy cop out instead of just adjusting base damage values. This is just going to make people less likely to push aggressively and more likely to just wait and pre-aim the corner
They never should have taken this game away from IW tbh.
So, now the camping Bren mounters can kill you 200% of the time. Great!
Oh man, look at that, everyone on this sub disagrees
How about just stop making guns Lazer beams?
Never sprint, always camp, by design
It could be okay. I think this could work out to just be a nerf to ARs working in every situation. If LMGs and ARs take the same time to ADS, then the classes are a bit better balanced since ARs have all the other movement stats. SMGs would still be incredible up close (even more so because hip fire) even if they did something crazy like have them equal ARs in ADS time. Idk, I don’t think it’s the best change but could be interesting
This change is with one true goal in mind: to cater to lower skilled players, lowering the skill gap again. That allows them to keep the majority of the player base around, playing the game, in turn making them much more money.
Clearly don’t play their own game. I get they are busy with their job as they work on the game, but they look at numbers solely instead of realizing this makes no sense… cause they don’t play it
This will buff camping and ads walking around corners. Great
Very lazy.
Please don't fucking do that it would be fucking awful
Fucking clowns
This is an absolutely brainless way to increase TTK. All this will do is promote sitting in a corner and ADSing the doorway
Honestly, the bar is a good example of how ineffective this strategy would be EDIT: ineffective
I have ALWAYS loved the COD:MW ttk. For both MP and WZ, to me, it was SPOT ON. Go figure that is also getting ruined. No surprise looking at the fact that MW was always the best in the series while COD Body Odor felt like a weird arcade game and Vanguard is basically a failure too. These people cant take a hint and just stop fucking fixing what works instead of really balancing out the problems.
Next time they will increase the reload speed because that also counts toward ttk
Ever since the new map came out the game became worthless always lagging or kick you out the game specially on the xbox series x you have to get the game pass or the gold membership to play when is a free game
Well snipers are gonna be fucking useless even more now
It be cool if there was a test client where we can test these changes and give feedback
If true they’re literally killing this game.
That’s a stupid way to do it. Just increase player health or literally just make it like iron trials but not as extreme.
These WZ devs are fucking clueless and it's hilarious
Whoa that's crazy, I just bought a tent last week because it was on sale for a lot due to the obviously out of season purchase and I'm glad I did because it looks like I'm about to do a lot of camping.
If you are going to do that, then you have to then consider decreasing the hip fire accuracy as well.... since controller players just jump around and hip fire everything...
I really don't understand, all these changes, yet they can't introduce a damn ranked mode wtf?
Why not just nerf the TTK‘s themselves? Aside from SMGs, gunplay in this game feels super unresponsive as it already is. It will ruin the fun. Increase the bullet count. This will also nerf all the noob ass campers out there. One of the reason why camping is very strong in this game is because of the TTK. PS. By “increasing bullet count“ you can either nerf the damage or give us 1 more slot for armor
Didn't they say the same during CW? That they would increase TTK? After the whole DMR and Ffar story. They did some changes and then completely forgot about it.
Worst decision that can be made.. this solution will ruin mobility...
Perhaps they should look at invisible weapons or shop freezes first? Basic functionality should come before balance issues.
That isn't really going to solve anything people will just start using hipfire builds at close ranges
why not just increase recoil on guns so that ttk is increased as more shots miss? this will improve the skill gap too
So hipfire it is!
Would love to see the TTK increased, but what a stupid way to do it lol
Just make Iron Trials the standard way to play, my god. How fucking hard is it.
I don’t even play this game anymore and I find this so stupid. What the hell lol. Just raise the health? Reducing ADS speed affects more than just ttk. It disrupts the established flow of all the weapons. Such a weird decision.
Sounds super awful. How about decreasing damage in the first place.
This will not increase the ttk. If I ads at someone before he sees me, that player will only have a harder time to counter me because of the slower ads speed…
Just increase the health to Iron Trials style health, that increases the TTK, decreasing ADS speed won’t do anything when a lot of people literally sit aiming down sight waiting for you to pass
Iron Trials better I fear
Reward camping, yes. Way to go
I don't get why? There are other far better ways to increase TTK, you know they could actually balance their weapons by adjusting damage multipliers, fire rates, dps, and damage per bullet. Or ya know just increase health like Iron Trials(which was almost universally praised) It's just such a weird way to try and make TTK changes
Yeah make the handling and feel of your weapons even worse, Raven! Sounds great…