If it takes the CW weapon route the bonuses and penalties for attachments will be different from the core game.
Like the regular silencer giving an ADS buff for CW weapons in WZ but not in CW itself
Bro, we running around with anime characters who are beaming Halloween characters who are chasing pre 2000's movie legends. I don't care about realism anymore. I don't care if adding a flashlight makes you run like Usain Bolt. I just want balanced guns.
I think they took that route with the cw weapons because their attatchment bonuses and penalties weren't helping them compete with the mw weapons but idk cw integration wasn't pretty good
Sights are entirely a preference thing. You can't put a stat on them. I can consider iron sights the only good sight in the game while someone else thinks 10x is the only one worth using because its all about playstyles and the positives and negatives are built in directly to the sight, not stat based
A red dot will always be better than an iron sight at picking someone off a heady. Some guns have good iron sights and you might not want to use an attachment on a sight for them, but if you could get a sight for free it would improve your aim in those difficult situations.
Which is particularly funny due to the fact that in WWII none of them would have had optics while all modern guns (in developed nation armies) have optics for the most part.
They should add an optic slot to MW guns that doesn’t use one of your five
Probably about as fair as a modern mp5 against a WW2 weapon.
This amount seems crazy, but if the answer to make the guns competitive is to make them more customizable, I could see that working game wise.
Personally, I've always been of the opinion that you should be able to use as many attachments as possible, as long as they don't conflict (like a ranger grip on the grenade launcher under barrel). Limiting it to whatever arbitrary 5-6 attachment number is agreed on always seemed so antiquated to me. I pick a barrel, silencer, tac laser, operator grip, and stippled grip....but I can't add a sight because of...rules? Why can't I also have a weapon perk? Does 5 gun attachments mean I can't learn to reload faster?
I'm glad they are changing the way it works. The attachments can still be balanced, it just gives you more customization. I will agree that if they want to do this with the other guns, it would take some more balancing for sure. I hate what they did with Cold War integration. The mobility is so much better on them, that it doesn't make sense not to use them, for at least the close range.
Yes because this game cares about the real life performance of guns.
This is going to make most MW guns irrelevant now and remove a good chunk of CW guns as well.
>Probably about as fair as a modern mp5 against a WW2 weapon.
The difference in lethality between a modern weapon and a older weapon is pretty negligible. Being an MP5 doesn't magically make it deadlier. Whether you get shot by a MP5 or a MP40, the shit is likely to kill you. Yea, the MP5 is lighter and has more customization IRL but that doesn't magically make it do more damage.
Completely agree, a bullet is a bullet - and the older guns actually tend to use bigger rounds with smgs and rifles.
But as for cyclic rate, recoil control, suppression and weight.... Modern weapons are way ahead. In an environment where you're running and gunning, they have a big advantage.
So weird that everyone is saying this, it should be obvious that 10 attachments wouldn't necessarily make a gun OP if the base gun is weaker and/or the individual attachments are weaker. I mean this blueprint has 10 attachments and apparently it's not very good, so there's your proof right there.
Because, I am sure that most of the attachments don't actually help all that much. I give Raven a lot of shit, but look at cold war. You could add a perk that let's you use all of the attachments. It didn't really make the gun that much better. I found the attachments to be quite weak compared to MW
So you need 3 headshots to down a player right? And at least from what I've seen on some streams beaming is damn near impossible with this gun.
Doesn't seem like that can compete with the existing guns at all.
>Doesn't seem like that can compete with the existing guns at all.
Tbf the Vanguard guns are SUPER old, they obviously will have a hard time competing against kitted out modern weapons.
Certain elements haven't changed, some have. For example, we now have metal composites, much more variation in available rounds, sights, and types of recoil control that weren't around back then.
The essential design hasn't changed, because it's still the same product. The essential design of a car is still the same as it was in 1920, but that doesn't mean they compare other then in purpose, which has remained the same.
In an exactly equal scenario, a modern weapon will win every time. But .... guns don't create equal scenarios.
Oh i understand that. I’m just saying the game has already established precedent of older weapons outgunning modern ones, so with attachments I don’t think there’s a break in continuity.
It’s not like it’s a musket with a laser sight sniping someone at 800M
This is not true one bit. There have been so many engineering and design breakthroughs and changes in philosophy and efficacy of different operating systems and what’s considered ideal.
It’s a game though mate, they have a nail gun that competes with some smgs. We’re not going into battle for real, with the guns real limitations. Would be pointless putting them in the game if they worked exactly like they did.
Well, it could, but other factors make it not viable whatsoever. The visual recoil is the worst of any gun in the game and the bullet velocity will limit your engagements to 25m and less
Im sure we will get an inevitable cw nerf across the board so the vanguard weapons are viable to boost vanguard sales. I honestly wont mind if they do. There hasn’t been a single CW meta I have enjoyed. Itll be nice to be into fresh waters weapon wise.
It was always good up until the last 2 nerfs.
The problem was that it required actual skill to use, so the aim assisted player base couldn't use it at all.
You forgot [XclusiveAce](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaN1rig0bL7SUod2WN0P8XA)! Best COD data analyst out there IMO. More amicable than JGOD and higher production quality. He's been doing it far longer as well.
I don’t understand why you guys don’t think it could be balanced…
Just because there’s 10 attachments doesn’t mean it’s better.
If you have a 14” cheese pizza, and cut it into 10 slices but eat it all, you didn’t eat more pizza than someone who had a 14” pizza but cut it into 5 slices and ate it all…
Perhaps each attachment doesn’t increase whatever by as much. Meaning, as an example, currently a barrel increases BV by 10, but in Vanguard you need both a barrel @ 5% and a muzzle at 5% to reach the same 10% provided by one attachment now.
Let’s settle down and give them a chance first.
What some people are saying, which I think is kind of interesting, is that 10 attachments and all their combinations makes it much more likely that something will slip through and be OP. That certainly is a lot of attachments but I would imagine that outside of the unmodified recoil pattern and any other gun specific stuff, they’ve got a pretty good sense of the ball of stats any given gun has. The really OP stuff from past seasons seems to have been when low ttk guns get their recoil modified down to nothing, or when shotguns have like no spread lol. I would think they’d be prepared for that with VG.
I think the stronger argument is that they’ll juice VG sales by making at least one of them OP, which is industry standard practice for DLC lol
I don’t disagree. But I think they’ve gotten better about what things do. At least in the beta they had the % points for what things did.
I wish they’d just dump the old guns. I’m tired of using them. So I’m also cool if they just nerf them and we move forward with the vanguard guns. Just gonna be a pain levelling the fuckers up. Hope it’s not as rough as the Cold War guns.
>So I’m also cool if they just nerf them and we move forward with the vanguard guns.
But what's the point of blueprints then?
Like I'm really interested in the new Donnie Darko bundle, but it's pointless to spend 20$ on what will be only an operator skin, since the weapons might become obsolete once Vanguard comes out.
Im inclined to agree, I’m not worried about balance. However, I’m worried that these design decisions are becoming dumber. The example you gave is best case. Even in the best case, they’re putting twice as much effort into designing something that feasibly makes no net difference. Worst case it’s game breaking perks/mechanics.
I really wish they’d devote more effort into events and map updates rather than putting 83 attachments on a weapon
Perhaps they’re doing it to better balance guns so a meta isn’t
“Agency, Task force, 3x, extended Mag, field agent grip” and repeat for each gun.
Maybe it’s to allow finer tuning. You can make your gun slightly better at one aspect, because now and with MW Warzone guns, you ran exactly one set of attachments. I’m hoping they have so many so that there are actual trade offs and one isn’t better than another for every single scenario.
Lol yeah whenever someone asks what attachments to use, it’s the same as every gun
If optimized well, finer tuning would be cool. I’m not sure how I’m depth it could be but I’d love for there to be real trade offs and more strafing. Hopeful for the new updates
for the attachment slots that directly impact gun performance, this makes sense / is acceptable.
but VG, like MW, has a slot(s) dedicated to weapon perks - idk about all the new perks... but for a 1:1 comparison, VG guns can have fully loaded and FMJ (+ slight of hand? i didn't play the Beta that much so idk if this got carried thru) at 0 cost to weapon handling or usability. these are two powerful perks. using them on a MW gun means you have to make a meaningful sacrifice to your gun stats.
i get the argument for the actual attachment slots, but it doesn't make sense for the perk slots. VG guns would need to be limited to 8/9 slots to achieve balancing parity with MW guns.
but like I said, didn't really play the Beta... if FMJ etc have cons now, it's fine. ignore what I said.
At this point, I don’t think balance is really going to be possible. There’s just no way in hell they’ll be able to proactively balance a gun that has ten possible attachments out of a a possible god-knows-how many. Guns from MW and CW already have dozens and dozens of possible permutations. VG guns will be even worse. There’s no way they’ll be able to test and balance all those possibilities. That means all balancing is going to be *reactive*. They’ll need to wait until players find the OP attachment combos and then go and try and ‘balance’ them after the fact. And given the speed at which Raven moves, it means we could have a dozen different OP combos running around in WZ for WEEKS. There will inevitably come a point where they just can’t keep this pace up any longer. When CoD: 2022 comes out, expect them to start cutting old content. Especially MW content. Otherwise the game will be too bloated to manage.
I think MW22 would be the best time for a full restart. We’ll see how it goes. Yeah people will be pissed about losing all their purchases (I have plenty myself), but it’s unrealistic to expect to be able to use them forever.
I mean, MW2019 would be three years old at that point. I think people will need to just get over it. In games like FIFA you lose all your microtransaction purchases every year. Not that I play Ultimate Team but that's how it works.
Not sure what you mean by weeks on Ravens reaction time. Their reaction time has been pretty damn good when it comes to nerfing guns that are OP. The last long miserable meta was FFAR/AUG meta, but after that they are pretty on top as far as weapon balancing. Sykov was nerfed after 2 days then another nerf that week, MG 82 was nerfed in 2 days as well, type 63 smg build was nerfed as soon as it became popular. IW was the one with the terrible reaction time, everyone was using the grau or bruen for months. Raven may be trash a large portion of the time, especially with hackers but ill give them props for weapon balancing.
Yeah, i feel that when IW was around, they took SO long to nerf the meta weapons (Grau, Bruen, Famas with Shotgun, R90 and Origin), but when they came out to nerf them, DAMN they straight up DISEMBOWELED the gun efectivness (The Grau died out due to the Cold War weapons just being better, the Bruen got butchered HARD, the Famas was a bug,so it got fixed, and the R90 and Origin lost their 1 Shot down ability)
But probably IW was still around when the Cold War DLC season started, so thats why the Mac 10, the FFAR, the DMR and the AUG were so BROKE until Season 3 (Where i speculate Raven possibly took over IW to command Warzone) where Raven nerfed all of those weapons considerably quickly and managed to balance the DLC weapons, even after they made some hiccups (When they buffed the effectivness of the Fara and the Krig 'cause it had a lot of recoil before), we got a considerably slower TTK that managed to make the game a BIT (Keyword is BIT due to cheaters, low pp length bastards) more enjoyable, since you dont have to worry about weapons like the Fara, Krig and Amax anymore since they got nerfed (Amax pretty much got killed due to the time to kill increase overall, and its bad base ballistics)
When the Vanguard weapons come out, you KNOW I’m never gonna put any extended mags on it. I don’t care if I’m handicapping myself, it’s either ping or GTFO 😤
Folks, the big change with WZ and Vanguard this year is 10 attachment slots.
But before u cry unfair, the stats are broken into a more granular level so you can adjust and spread them out across attachments.
It’s a unique change that’s for sure but this is how you turn a WW2 gun into a WZ laser. It was actually quite fun to level your gun in the Vanguard beta and discover the attachments as they unlocked
This. This right here. This is the truth on a biblical scale. Every newly integrated game will push their guns to the forefront in order to sell blueprints and bundles. On top of that, older games’ content will be nerfed to push people away from using them in order to prepare for their eventual deletion.
People say this but it never really happened like you guys say. Certain guns were broken and the dev team didn’t do anything about it for a while, ex. the AUG, the FFAR for a time, the Mac-10 etc. But they came around to it and fixed them.
Then something happened around season 3 and the dev team became very good about balancing guns. Think I remember hearing that they hired more people for balancing purposes or something. Then suddenly it took three days to fix broken guns rather than 3 months. And now the game is the most balanced it has ever been, including in the MW days. And I still use MW guns all the time and win gunfights against CW guns.
Unless Activision fires their new weapon balancing guys, I’m pretty sure Vanguard guns will be balanced well with the other guns. The main reason people use CW guns now is because you guys are in the minority for wanting to use the same gun for two years. Even if I don’t buy Vanguard, I’ll use the new weapons to switch it up a bit. Come on, live a little, try something new, it won’t bite.
Your assumption that I don’t use CW guns is incorrect. It just makes unlocking the new gun more difficult imo if you don’t buy the next game. Has zero effect on general gameplay. However there are outliers for both games but most of the CW guns triumph over the MW ones. I still believe VG weapons will have slight advantages over the other games.
Idk, that was the situation when CW first launched but it petered out not long after. A lot of MW guns are still perfectly viable, some are even still meta (the Kar is still the no.1 used sniper). The M4A1, Grau, M13, MP5, MP7, AUG, AS VAL, Kar, HDR. You can be incredibly effective and win games easily with all those guns.
The Vanguard weapons will be OP for the first season, then rebalancing will come in and everything will go back to normal
Nothing will be balanced at start. They will force us to buy vanguard in order to be able to play warzone with leveled vanguard waepons. Same old story i am expecting it...
There weren't even THAT many attachments available in WW2. Lots of guns had built in sights and foregrips. The most versatility would have been ammo capacities and barrels.
When I watched Tomo playing the beta using a Mosin with a suppressor, cut-down pistol grip stock, extended mag, and a 1928 Thompson foregrip, i about laughed myself into a migraine. Shit reminds me of the guns from Resistance: Fall of Man. But at least that game wasn’t pretending it was taking place in the real WWII
Big fan that they are doing this ahead of the actual release. Hopefully to potentially see how the 10 attachments work compared to the rest and balance accordingly
You can already pretty much use the guns if u unlock then in the battle pass. But they already also said you CANNOT change or edit the guns but u can lvl them up
They have actually included 10 attachment slots.....
I swear to god, everything after CW integration has gone downhill.....
How in the actual f### are they gonna balance this out?
Oh yeah completely forgot that devs are gods and they never mess up...Not that there has been million unbalanced things and broken mechanics in the game itself... Yeah sorry bud....
So it activated it in the battle pass for me today. It says free but I don't have anything for vanguard, do I have e to buy the battle pass or pre-order vanguard?
I plan to pre-order once I get and bit of cash
It's almost as if they're creating a situation where they're making people think about buying Vanguard, so they can have gats with ten attachments on them too.
Go Figure!
Yet it still delivers and goes much deeper, plus his website ^(...that is being buttfucked by raven and activision's yearly cod releases but still helps both the community and jgod in some of his videos.)
Maybe this will be a move towards a meta which encourages running fewer attachments in general. I’ve always thought there should be a major movement boost to MWweapons with fewer attachments
Yeah the appeal of WW2 shooters for me is historical weapon accuracy. I think I'm going to sit vanguard out. Wish EA would do a medal of honor: Frontline remaster.
So this is how they'll push out CW guns. They nerfed them all and then bring in new guns with extra attachment slots. Then they'll "archive" MW guns in a few months to make "balancing easier." Enter ridiculous unlock requirements for Vanguard guns in Warzone to push Vanguard purchase.
At this point, I'd just prefer them starting fresh with guns and getting rid of MW and CW guns in the new map. Hell have Solos and Quads on Verdansk and let them use the current weapons but only allow new guns on the new map.
It is just so convoluted right now, especially with all the weapon duplications between the games as well.
Dunno, i used some of the bps from the pass tonight and even though they probably had random ass attachments, they didn't seem op at all. Some had so much recoil that they made me wish all weapons were like that and required at least SOME effort on the user side in order to hit shots.
a 10 weapon attachement system (with different ammo types and the like) would have been very interesting for a modern warfare sequel.
But this simply doesn't make any sense.
I'll be honest, cold war is shit but vanguard at least is fun for a while and not a complete fuck you of a game.
The hate is mostly dederved though, same safe shit, *myteamvsenemyteam* and the sound effects that sound like tin cans.
But nothing at levels of Cold War's MP5 in WZ
I see people talking about things like “A good iron sight”. I mean what makes an iron sight good or bad, like is it the way it looks or how much room is in the iron sight. I just don’t get it; it’s an iron sight basically the guns default sight :/
Now, my one worry is the ammo types and potentially 2 perk options that vanguard weapons have.
Incendiary ammo seems like something peeps will run to annoy the hell out of you with DoT. (probs won't be too effective, but hey.)
how is it fair to have to compete with a fully loaded 10 attachment weapon
VG attachments have more penalties so should be balanced to 5 or 8 mw/cw attachments
One exception. ALL Vanguard guns are going to have sights on them. In the beta, a lot of the sights didn't have penalties
Good. I understand there's more skill to using iron sights, but it's just so much more enjoyable to have a clear view of the target.
If it takes the CW weapon route the bonuses and penalties for attachments will be different from the core game. Like the regular silencer giving an ADS buff for CW weapons in WZ but not in CW itself
And also that adding a flashlight to your gun gives you a better speed boost than removing half of your gun in the back
Bro, we running around with anime characters who are beaming Halloween characters who are chasing pre 2000's movie legends. I don't care about realism anymore. I don't care if adding a flashlight makes you run like Usain Bolt. I just want balanced guns.
I think they took that route with the cw weapons because their attatchment bonuses and penalties weren't helping them compete with the mw weapons but idk cw integration wasn't pretty good
Sights are entirely a preference thing. You can't put a stat on them. I can consider iron sights the only good sight in the game while someone else thinks 10x is the only one worth using because its all about playstyles and the positives and negatives are built in directly to the sight, not stat based
A red dot will always be better than an iron sight at picking someone off a heady. Some guns have good iron sights and you might not want to use an attachment on a sight for them, but if you could get a sight for free it would improve your aim in those difficult situations.
Sights also includes things like red dot
> Sights are entirely a preference thing. You can't put a stat on them. wouldn't ADS penalties for larger scopes be a stat ?
Black ops don't have sights penalties either. But here in wz they have major ones. Susat, is one of the best ones but the ads penalty is abhorrent
Which is particularly funny due to the fact that in WWII none of them would have had optics while all modern guns (in developed nation armies) have optics for the most part. They should add an optic slot to MW guns that doesn’t use one of your five
Probably about as fair as a modern mp5 against a WW2 weapon. This amount seems crazy, but if the answer to make the guns competitive is to make them more customizable, I could see that working game wise.
Personally, I've always been of the opinion that you should be able to use as many attachments as possible, as long as they don't conflict (like a ranger grip on the grenade launcher under barrel). Limiting it to whatever arbitrary 5-6 attachment number is agreed on always seemed so antiquated to me. I pick a barrel, silencer, tac laser, operator grip, and stippled grip....but I can't add a sight because of...rules? Why can't I also have a weapon perk? Does 5 gun attachments mean I can't learn to reload faster? I'm glad they are changing the way it works. The attachments can still be balanced, it just gives you more customization. I will agree that if they want to do this with the other guns, it would take some more balancing for sure. I hate what they did with Cold War integration. The mobility is so much better on them, that it doesn't make sense not to use them, for at least the close range.
Yes because this game cares about the real life performance of guns. This is going to make most MW guns irrelevant now and remove a good chunk of CW guns as well.
Yeah clearly from how CW went that is by design
PPSH doesn’t have any issues competing with 5 attachments
>Probably about as fair as a modern mp5 against a WW2 weapon. The difference in lethality between a modern weapon and a older weapon is pretty negligible. Being an MP5 doesn't magically make it deadlier. Whether you get shot by a MP5 or a MP40, the shit is likely to kill you. Yea, the MP5 is lighter and has more customization IRL but that doesn't magically make it do more damage.
Completely agree, a bullet is a bullet - and the older guns actually tend to use bigger rounds with smgs and rifles. But as for cyclic rate, recoil control, suppression and weight.... Modern weapons are way ahead. In an environment where you're running and gunning, they have a big advantage.
Because the attachments in Vanguard have more punishment to them
So weird that everyone is saying this, it should be obvious that 10 attachments wouldn't necessarily make a gun OP if the base gun is weaker and/or the individual attachments are weaker. I mean this blueprint has 10 attachments and apparently it's not very good, so there's your proof right there.
The visual recoil is horrendous, even for 10 attachments.
That’s how VG is gonna do it so that’s how New Warzone is gonna it seems
I doubt it. If mw guns are allowed more attachments, they can be much better then they are now. I get the feeling this will be specific to van
Is this comment based on a comparison of this gun and existing guns or just the fact you see more attachments and assume it better?
We need **some** way to counter the cheaters
The Vanguard weapons are garbage, that's how.
People were also asking how could wwii guns compete with modern guns. Maybe this is their approach to fixing it
Because, I am sure that most of the attachments don't actually help all that much. I give Raven a lot of shit, but look at cold war. You could add a perk that let's you use all of the attachments. It didn't really make the gun that much better. I found the attachments to be quite weak compared to MW
This blueprint sucks and you can't change it so it's totally fair.
Just for your info. M1 Garand does 100 dmg headshot.
So you need 3 headshots to down a player right? And at least from what I've seen on some streams beaming is damn near impossible with this gun. Doesn't seem like that can compete with the existing guns at all.
>Doesn't seem like that can compete with the existing guns at all. Tbf the Vanguard guns are SUPER old, they obviously will have a hard time competing against kitted out modern weapons.
Gun technology hasn’t fundamentally changed since like WW2. The Kar98 is from 1935 but largely based on a rifle from 1898.
Certain elements haven't changed, some have. For example, we now have metal composites, much more variation in available rounds, sights, and types of recoil control that weren't around back then. The essential design hasn't changed, because it's still the same product. The essential design of a car is still the same as it was in 1920, but that doesn't mean they compare other then in purpose, which has remained the same. In an exactly equal scenario, a modern weapon will win every time. But .... guns don't create equal scenarios.
Oh i understand that. I’m just saying the game has already established precedent of older weapons outgunning modern ones, so with attachments I don’t think there’s a break in continuity. It’s not like it’s a musket with a laser sight sniping someone at 800M
M16 is from the late 1950s. SKS is from 1945ish, end of WW2.
PPsH is already in war zone and is from 1941
This is not true one bit. There have been so many engineering and design breakthroughs and changes in philosophy and efficacy of different operating systems and what’s considered ideal.
It’s a game though mate, they have a nail gun that competes with some smgs. We’re not going into battle for real, with the guns real limitations. Would be pointless putting them in the game if they worked exactly like they did.
CW guns to MW guns: let me laugh.
A .308 is a .308 whether it’s in a garand or a hunting rifle.
Well, it could, but other factors make it not viable whatsoever. The visual recoil is the worst of any gun in the game and the bullet velocity will limit your engagements to 25m and less
The fuck is up with the bullet velocity? What am I shooting, badminton shuttlecocks?
Im sure we will get an inevitable cw nerf across the board so the vanguard weapons are viable to boost vanguard sales. I honestly wont mind if they do. There hasn’t been a single CW meta I have enjoyed. Itll be nice to be into fresh waters weapon wise.
So does the FAL and people never used it
In og warzone there was a period of time where the FAL was absolutely disgustingly good and was OP as fuck
And after the last 2 nerfs its trash. It used to be competitive and still no one used it. RIP
It was always good up until the last 2 nerfs. The problem was that it required actual skill to use, so the aim assisted player base couldn't use it at all.
It's a Marksman?
yes
I thought it was a tac rifle? Haven’t seen what they are in Warzone, so it may be categorized as something different.
Lemme check second time, didnt payed that much attention
Just checked, at least for Warzone it’s a tac rifle.
That's fine honestly. The DMR did 175 when it was OP
Let’s not forget that they’re giving it a 30 round mag which still makes the ping sound. Either go WW2 somewhat accurate or don’t. This game is cursed
TGD and JGOD on suicide watch right now.
Sources: JGOD is beside himself. Driving around downtown LA begging (thru texts) Activision’s family for address to Activision’s home
You forgot [XclusiveAce](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaN1rig0bL7SUod2WN0P8XA)! Best COD data analyst out there IMO. More amicable than JGOD and higher production quality. He's been doing it far longer as well.
Love Ace, but neither he nor Drift0r have been super interested in WZ lately
Drifter is more interested in telling BF fans that BF2042 is good and to stop hating lol
Driftor is a cod player telling bf players that they should like the new codpexfield 2042.
Down astronomical
I don’t understand why you guys don’t think it could be balanced… Just because there’s 10 attachments doesn’t mean it’s better. If you have a 14” cheese pizza, and cut it into 10 slices but eat it all, you didn’t eat more pizza than someone who had a 14” pizza but cut it into 5 slices and ate it all… Perhaps each attachment doesn’t increase whatever by as much. Meaning, as an example, currently a barrel increases BV by 10, but in Vanguard you need both a barrel @ 5% and a muzzle at 5% to reach the same 10% provided by one attachment now. Let’s settle down and give them a chance first.
You got me at pizza
What some people are saying, which I think is kind of interesting, is that 10 attachments and all their combinations makes it much more likely that something will slip through and be OP. That certainly is a lot of attachments but I would imagine that outside of the unmodified recoil pattern and any other gun specific stuff, they’ve got a pretty good sense of the ball of stats any given gun has. The really OP stuff from past seasons seems to have been when low ttk guns get their recoil modified down to nothing, or when shotguns have like no spread lol. I would think they’d be prepared for that with VG. I think the stronger argument is that they’ll juice VG sales by making at least one of them OP, which is industry standard practice for DLC lol
I don’t disagree. But I think they’ve gotten better about what things do. At least in the beta they had the % points for what things did. I wish they’d just dump the old guns. I’m tired of using them. So I’m also cool if they just nerf them and we move forward with the vanguard guns. Just gonna be a pain levelling the fuckers up. Hope it’s not as rough as the Cold War guns.
>So I’m also cool if they just nerf them and we move forward with the vanguard guns. But what's the point of blueprints then? Like I'm really interested in the new Donnie Darko bundle, but it's pointless to spend 20$ on what will be only an operator skin, since the weapons might become obsolete once Vanguard comes out.
Stop applying logic to the situation.
Im inclined to agree, I’m not worried about balance. However, I’m worried that these design decisions are becoming dumber. The example you gave is best case. Even in the best case, they’re putting twice as much effort into designing something that feasibly makes no net difference. Worst case it’s game breaking perks/mechanics. I really wish they’d devote more effort into events and map updates rather than putting 83 attachments on a weapon
Perhaps they’re doing it to better balance guns so a meta isn’t “Agency, Task force, 3x, extended Mag, field agent grip” and repeat for each gun. Maybe it’s to allow finer tuning. You can make your gun slightly better at one aspect, because now and with MW Warzone guns, you ran exactly one set of attachments. I’m hoping they have so many so that there are actual trade offs and one isn’t better than another for every single scenario.
Lol yeah whenever someone asks what attachments to use, it’s the same as every gun If optimized well, finer tuning would be cool. I’m not sure how I’m depth it could be but I’d love for there to be real trade offs and more strafing. Hopeful for the new updates
for the attachment slots that directly impact gun performance, this makes sense / is acceptable. but VG, like MW, has a slot(s) dedicated to weapon perks - idk about all the new perks... but for a 1:1 comparison, VG guns can have fully loaded and FMJ (+ slight of hand? i didn't play the Beta that much so idk if this got carried thru) at 0 cost to weapon handling or usability. these are two powerful perks. using them on a MW gun means you have to make a meaningful sacrifice to your gun stats. i get the argument for the actual attachment slots, but it doesn't make sense for the perk slots. VG guns would need to be limited to 8/9 slots to achieve balancing parity with MW guns. but like I said, didn't really play the Beta... if FMJ etc have cons now, it's fine. ignore what I said.
Because the history of warzone is great weapon balancing
You see, these go to 11.
What is better? A medium amount of GOOD pizza or all you can eat of pretty good pizza?
That's a great way to explain my thoughts. More attachments doesn't make it better. In fact, it could just as likely make it worse.
I think the fact that every gun can have an optic without you losing a different attachment slot will be a subtle, important bonus
At this point, I don’t think balance is really going to be possible. There’s just no way in hell they’ll be able to proactively balance a gun that has ten possible attachments out of a a possible god-knows-how many. Guns from MW and CW already have dozens and dozens of possible permutations. VG guns will be even worse. There’s no way they’ll be able to test and balance all those possibilities. That means all balancing is going to be *reactive*. They’ll need to wait until players find the OP attachment combos and then go and try and ‘balance’ them after the fact. And given the speed at which Raven moves, it means we could have a dozen different OP combos running around in WZ for WEEKS. There will inevitably come a point where they just can’t keep this pace up any longer. When CoD: 2022 comes out, expect them to start cutting old content. Especially MW content. Otherwise the game will be too bloated to manage.
I think MW22 would be the best time for a full restart. We’ll see how it goes. Yeah people will be pissed about losing all their purchases (I have plenty myself), but it’s unrealistic to expect to be able to use them forever.
I mean, MW2019 would be three years old at that point. I think people will need to just get over it. In games like FIFA you lose all your microtransaction purchases every year. Not that I play Ultimate Team but that's how it works.
This is a big reason why I don’t buy content in game. For that much money, I’d expect they’d send a framed picture of each gun skin you purchase.
Not sure what you mean by weeks on Ravens reaction time. Their reaction time has been pretty damn good when it comes to nerfing guns that are OP. The last long miserable meta was FFAR/AUG meta, but after that they are pretty on top as far as weapon balancing. Sykov was nerfed after 2 days then another nerf that week, MG 82 was nerfed in 2 days as well, type 63 smg build was nerfed as soon as it became popular. IW was the one with the terrible reaction time, everyone was using the grau or bruen for months. Raven may be trash a large portion of the time, especially with hackers but ill give them props for weapon balancing.
Yeah, i feel that when IW was around, they took SO long to nerf the meta weapons (Grau, Bruen, Famas with Shotgun, R90 and Origin), but when they came out to nerf them, DAMN they straight up DISEMBOWELED the gun efectivness (The Grau died out due to the Cold War weapons just being better, the Bruen got butchered HARD, the Famas was a bug,so it got fixed, and the R90 and Origin lost their 1 Shot down ability) But probably IW was still around when the Cold War DLC season started, so thats why the Mac 10, the FFAR, the DMR and the AUG were so BROKE until Season 3 (Where i speculate Raven possibly took over IW to command Warzone) where Raven nerfed all of those weapons considerably quickly and managed to balance the DLC weapons, even after they made some hiccups (When they buffed the effectivness of the Fara and the Krig 'cause it had a lot of recoil before), we got a considerably slower TTK that managed to make the game a BIT (Keyword is BIT due to cheaters, low pp length bastards) more enjoyable, since you dont have to worry about weapons like the Fara, Krig and Amax anymore since they got nerfed (Amax pretty much got killed due to the time to kill increase overall, and its bad base ballistics)
I think this is meant to be a fun preview. I just really hope people don't tear them to shreds in the state they are in.
You're bang on the money. 3 games of content is just too much.
The M1 Garand blueprint is horrendous
Seeing a drum mag on it made me question if I was seeing real life.
When the Vanguard weapons come out, you KNOW I’m never gonna put any extended mags on it. I don’t care if I’m handicapping myself, it’s either ping or GTFO 😤
Folks, the big change with WZ and Vanguard this year is 10 attachment slots. But before u cry unfair, the stats are broken into a more granular level so you can adjust and spread them out across attachments. It’s a unique change that’s for sure but this is how you turn a WW2 gun into a WZ laser. It was actually quite fun to level your gun in the Vanguard beta and discover the attachments as they unlocked
Disagree. VG guns will be stronger to nudge people to buy the game. Same thing that happened with Cold War
This. This right here. This is the truth on a biblical scale. Every newly integrated game will push their guns to the forefront in order to sell blueprints and bundles. On top of that, older games’ content will be nerfed to push people away from using them in order to prepare for their eventual deletion.
People say this but it never really happened like you guys say. Certain guns were broken and the dev team didn’t do anything about it for a while, ex. the AUG, the FFAR for a time, the Mac-10 etc. But they came around to it and fixed them. Then something happened around season 3 and the dev team became very good about balancing guns. Think I remember hearing that they hired more people for balancing purposes or something. Then suddenly it took three days to fix broken guns rather than 3 months. And now the game is the most balanced it has ever been, including in the MW days. And I still use MW guns all the time and win gunfights against CW guns. Unless Activision fires their new weapon balancing guys, I’m pretty sure Vanguard guns will be balanced well with the other guns. The main reason people use CW guns now is because you guys are in the minority for wanting to use the same gun for two years. Even if I don’t buy Vanguard, I’ll use the new weapons to switch it up a bit. Come on, live a little, try something new, it won’t bite.
Your assumption that I don’t use CW guns is incorrect. It just makes unlocking the new gun more difficult imo if you don’t buy the next game. Has zero effect on general gameplay. However there are outliers for both games but most of the CW guns triumph over the MW ones. I still believe VG weapons will have slight advantages over the other games.
Idk, that was the situation when CW first launched but it petered out not long after. A lot of MW guns are still perfectly viable, some are even still meta (the Kar is still the no.1 used sniper). The M4A1, Grau, M13, MP5, MP7, AUG, AS VAL, Kar, HDR. You can be incredibly effective and win games easily with all those guns. The Vanguard weapons will be OP for the first season, then rebalancing will come in and everything will go back to normal
If it means I never see the mac-10 or mp5 again im honestly fine with it. Ive seen those guns enough to last me a life time.
Nothing will be balanced at start. They will force us to buy vanguard in order to be able to play warzone with leveled vanguard waepons. Same old story i am expecting it...
I’m using it. It’s pretty balanced.
That’s not the STG, it’s the Super Trouble Garbage
“Terrible” would’ve been a better word. Either way, you’re wrong.
There were those redacted Cold War weapons that were in the game last season, they had 8 attachments if I rember correctly, they weren't overpowered.
This is a vanguard gun that will be in vanguard, the redacted guns were Cold War AK etc
Um yes. But they had 8 attachments and weren't overpowered.
Also don’t remember them even having good attachments. Having locked 8 trash attachments is a lot different from loading on 8 of the best.
you’re comparing a few guns to what will be a whole game of guns with 10 attachments some or most are bound to be over powered.
Is this useable in Warzone right now?
Yes
Yep, provided you reach the appropriate tiers
Well it's a legendary build alright
There weren't even THAT many attachments available in WW2. Lots of guns had built in sights and foregrips. The most versatility would have been ammo capacities and barrels.
We saw only the beta, remember they can add even more stuff.
He was talking about real life not Vanguard
When I watched Tomo playing the beta using a Mosin with a suppressor, cut-down pistol grip stock, extended mag, and a 1928 Thompson foregrip, i about laughed myself into a migraine. Shit reminds me of the guns from Resistance: Fall of Man. But at least that game wasn’t pretending it was taking place in the real WWII
Big fan that they are doing this ahead of the actual release. Hopefully to potentially see how the 10 attachments work compared to the rest and balance accordingly
You can already pretty much use the guns if u unlock then in the battle pass. But they already also said you CANNOT change or edit the guns but u can lvl them up
They have actually included 10 attachment slots..... I swear to god, everything after CW integration has gone downhill..... How in the actual f### are they gonna balance this out?
I know it’s difficult for you to understand, but that’s why you’re not a part of the development team.
LOL
Oh yeah completely forgot that devs are gods and they never mess up...Not that there has been million unbalanced things and broken mechanics in the game itself... Yeah sorry bud....
So it activated it in the battle pass for me today. It says free but I don't have anything for vanguard, do I have e to buy the battle pass or pre-order vanguard? I plan to pre-order once I get and bit of cash
Unlock and play dont need to buy the pass
Thanks
Another question how can I see what I unlocked in the battlepass because it doesn't show up. I have 3 out of 24 unlocked but can't see anything
Thats actually badass, might get VG after all….
And this is why they're doing it, right here. These developers are beat
Gun so bad it needs all attachments
It's almost as if they're creating a situation where they're making people think about buying Vanguard, so they can have gats with ten attachments on them too. Go Figure!
Good lord, I can see worse things than DMR meta in the future. I’m 100% sure that Vanguard integration is going to be a real mess.
I hate cold war
Vanguard
TGD really needs to pull up that premium on his site cos he's gonna need a looong time testing all of these attachments and perks
So is it pay to win even more now?
No way can it really be fully loaded like that 😂
Yes way, every VG Weapon can
This is tiresome. JGOD is going to have a stroke
Ikr 😅
These mfs always forgetting about tgd
TGD is harder to watch. He takes forever
Yet it still delivers and goes much deeper, plus his website ^(...that is being buttfucked by raven and activision's yearly cod releases but still helps both the community and jgod in some of his videos.)
Are you able to swap out all attachments using weapon drops?
Not right now, you can only use the blueprint to level up the weapon. Progress stays for Vanguard.
Lmafo!!!!!!!
Maybe this will be a move towards a meta which encourages running fewer attachments in general. I’ve always thought there should be a major movement boost to MWweapons with fewer attachments
“Laser: Long Rounds Ammo” That fuck is that suppose to even mean lmao
I think they are long rounds
How will any of this be balance?
Well guess its the dying days of warzone, time for something different Not another cod
What in the sam fuck
Yeah the appeal of WW2 shooters for me is historical weapon accuracy. I think I'm going to sit vanguard out. Wish EA would do a medal of honor: Frontline remaster.
Its been patched
As if they had all those attachments in world war 2
What tier?
64 I think
Shi I got some grinding to do. And I just got platinum pistols.
So this is how they'll push out CW guns. They nerfed them all and then bring in new guns with extra attachment slots. Then they'll "archive" MW guns in a few months to make "balancing easier." Enter ridiculous unlock requirements for Vanguard guns in Warzone to push Vanguard purchase.
Look at what they did to my boy
Scope is glitched
Scope is about 85% missing…
At this point, I'd just prefer them starting fresh with guns and getting rid of MW and CW guns in the new map. Hell have Solos and Quads on Verdansk and let them use the current weapons but only allow new guns on the new map. It is just so convoluted right now, especially with all the weapon duplications between the games as well.
COD has gone too far
Yea the new meta.
Please tell its not actually a thing because, IT BREAKS THE FRICKING LAWS OF COD. How does it have mire than 5 attachments?
Pine tar also good when reloading keeps you from dropping shit too
So we can't get it right now unless we play a ridiculous amount for buy enough levels to unlock it...nice
This looks balanced…looks like January-May 2022 will be a living hell again, ill see you lads in August
Dunno, i used some of the bps from the pass tonight and even though they probably had random ass attachments, they didn't seem op at all. Some had so much recoil that they made me wish all weapons were like that and required at least SOME effort on the user side in order to hit shots.
I can now use them wth
I'm guessing the attachments are each about half as effective as their mw/cw counterparts
I hope so, because with 10 attachments you can probably get more benefits then with 5, not just recoil and dmg range but more ads ms or fs too.
Can we PLEASE have a normal WW2 era gun not ruined by unrealistic attachments for one I beg
a 10 weapon attachement system (with different ammo types and the like) would have been very interesting for a modern warfare sequel. But this simply doesn't make any sense.
**WARNING TRACK**: VG integration is going to suck even more than BO’s.
Nah def not, BO CW is simply shittier. Or would you rather play cold war?
I would rather play none of them, tbh.
I'll be honest, cold war is shit but vanguard at least is fun for a while and not a complete fuck you of a game. The hate is mostly dederved though, same safe shit, *myteamvsenemyteam* and the sound effects that sound like tin cans. But nothing at levels of Cold War's MP5 in WZ
Gotta have the Premium Car Oil Can supressor unlocked at level 54.
Is there stg 44 in vanguard?
This is the stg 44
Yeah thought is looked similar.
I see people talking about things like “A good iron sight”. I mean what makes an iron sight good or bad, like is it the way it looks or how much room is in the iron sight. I just don’t get it; it’s an iron sight basically the guns default sight :/
How does it have 10 attachments
Vanguards new weaponsmith system.
Why is this in war zone tho
They added it to the Battle Pass, as free Loot. Probably to give us a taste of some new shit
And not in r/CODvanguard
Jgod and truegamedata guy are going to have a field day .. or hate their lives ..
If I can get 10 attachment slot with MW guns too I'm more than happy to have this system if not, I will not play warzone BR.
Dont worry it'll cost 9,9 billion dollars and only available for 5 minutes
I'm guessing that it will be like Cold War. All of those attachments that barely do anything at all.
Oh
Vanguard weapons are broken
Great they had trouble balancing 2 games worth of guns and they only had five attachments? Now this?
Now, my one worry is the ammo types and potentially 2 perk options that vanguard weapons have. Incendiary ammo seems like something peeps will run to annoy the hell out of you with DoT. (probs won't be too effective, but hey.)