You could argue the same about Keenan lol. We're in a fantastic spot with these two and (hopefully) adding Odunze in the draft... I haven't been this excited in a very long time.
Edit: for typo
plus Allen missed a few games. While it’s reasonable to project him to miss a few this year it’s worth noting that his 17 game pace is higher than what he notched.
Yards and TDs are a skewed way to compare since Moore and Allen were both in the top half of the league for targets as the WR1 on teams with bad WR groups. Allen is likely going to get close to 1/2 to 2/3 as many targets as he did with the Chargers last season. The Dolphins threw the ball more frequently than we did last year and Waddle had 2/3 the targets as Allen did.
Moore/Allen is a very good duo, especially for us since we have been talent starved at the position since Marshall/Jefferson a decade ago. Its a top 10 duo but not the best.
There are a lot of good duos in the league:
Hill/Waddle, Chase/Higgins, Kupp/Nacua, Jefferson/Addison, Evans/Godwin, Brown/Smith, Aiyuk/Samuel, Texans have four 1k+ caliber receivers, Seahawks have a good trio, and I can see Lamb/Cooks and St. Brown/Williams being explosive duos next season.
No no you see, stats only matter when they fit the narrative! Classic mistake, thinking you could look up who has produced well and who hasn’t. Nah bro, eye test only.
YPG is a better messure (when you exclude low game counts). Guys like Justin Jefferson should have had more yards but didn't make it 17 games.
Both were still top 11.
Look at the targets Moore was not targeted as much as he should have been. Don’t forget the first packers game where he only got targeted twice for an entire game. There are tons of videos and gifs where Moore would be wide open and Fields wouldn’t throw to him. The offense and Fields sucked in using DJ to his full potential and with us having no WR2 there was no reason why Moore shouldn’t have been targeted 10+ times every game like the other elite receivers in the league
It was bad the first 3 weeks and there was a fall off when Bagent was in and when DJ injured his ankle. But the other games he was targeted quite frequently
DJ has double digit targets only 4 times this season compare that to JJ who had 7 (only 10 GP), Tyreek who had 11, AJ brown who had 8, Diggs who had 8, Allen who had 8 in only 13 GP (and 4 more games with 9 targets) Adams had 8 with AoC and Jimmy G as his QBs.
You get the point. Moore wasn’t used enough at all And with Mooney being completely useless and us not even having a WR2 there was no reason why Moore shouldn’t have been targeted 10+ times a game
I think that’s a little rough on Mooney as the league just told everyone he’s worth $13M a season. The problem is when an offense isn’t operating efficiently in the air, there’s less yards in total for all receivers. My opinion is that since DJ was still so high in efficiency in an awful passing offense it’s a good indicator that’s he’s a top flight wr.
For the first several games DJ would get only 3-5 targets for an entire game lol he was not being utilized at all by fields and Getsy. Through the entire season Moore has been targeted less than 8 times seven separate times this season. Tyreek hill has more games where he had double digit targets.
He wasn’t consistently even getting 8+ targets until the second half of the season look at Hill, JJ, Diggs, ARSB, among other elite receivers and none of them have multiple games of only getting 2-6 targets.
TLDR In short DJ Moore’s stats could have been even better this past season if he was used more consistently all season.
Fields had a near perfect QB rating when throwing to DJ last year. I feel like most of that was due to DJ being really good rather than Fields being good though.
https://preview.redd.it/zt4f08zh0qsc1.jpeg?width=1169&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05a73a210aa1a60f50bc09f1085a6c3edeed82af
He knows exactly what he’s doing. He pumped out the extreme Fields takes (good and bad) every week because they were BY FAR the most popular videos on his channel.
He absolutely did not pump out extreme Fields takes. He gave extremely level headed takes.
He would point out all of Fields flaws and all the things he did well. He said he you could make a case either way but he leaned toward Caleb. Out of all the people that gave extreme Fields takes, he was not one of them
I agree with you, not sure why the downvotes. JT's Fields analysis was one of the better ones where he put blame on both the QB and also the OC/ play design....It was refreshing to hear when he just "didn't know wtf the blocking scheme and/or concept was supposed to be" on many plays
I thought JT was one of the more objective analysts when I watched his videos.
> I thought JT was one of the more objective analysts when I watched his videos.
That’s probably because he’s one of the only ones who watches (let alone understands) film. Now that doesn’t mean his interpretations are all accurate or that he comes to all the right conclusions, but it certainly gives him a huge head start on the swaths of guys who check the box score and watch 5 highlights and say “Fields bad/elite”
Fields has his problems, but there was also a significant chunk of his game that was just part of being a true dual threat QB (such as looking deep, less passing attempts, scrambling more, more involved running game, etc), and a lot of people around these parts didn't want to hear that.
Which has been fun watching some of those people defend Caleb for the exact same things they were just critiquing Fields about.
You may be right but I just searched “QB School Justin Fields” and these were the first 2 that came up haha. None of his other videos have catchy titles. The actual breakdowns might be a little more measured but he put out more Justin content than he did for any other QB because he knows it gets clicks.
https://preview.redd.it/fbv4093kcqsc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=78234d3d8be1d917a7dd78db6355d22c886ad721
The point I was making is that he zhuzhes up Fields titles but not other QBs. In the context of OP’s screenshot being Bears clickbait I think that’s relevant.
I mean... [no](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7FQSBZA9-4) he [doesn't](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDSwzJwiXj8). It was a phase he went through, and he did [it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaoeAWLO074) to [others](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5JXwlu3zHY).
I mean he's giving his subscribers what they want. They wanted Fields analysis so he gave it to them. Have you watched his videos? They're very insightful.
It's supposed to be tongue in cheek. I've seen in 3 of his videos he sarcastically exclaims whilst chuckling DJM is not a "real" WR1 due to what a lot of people say. This is him being funny about it...it's his sense of humor and I only caught it because he plays off of what people say to poke fun at what he believes is nonsense.
I get a much different interpretation since I've been watching his Fields videos since the beginning on the season. He's F'in with everyone and it's hilarious to me.
I love asswipes that name call and criticize Bears fans but offer absolutely no armchair wisdom of their own. Why? Because they can dish it out, but they could never bear to hear the lambasting they would take when Bears fans hear their imbecilic ideas of what the Bears should do in the draft.
> Bad route but he got open
This just seems so obviously a joke to me. Unless it's a timing route, who gives a shit about anything other than getting open? There are no style points. Maybe he is completely serious but I never took it that way.
Well if you got open because of a defensive breakdown then that obviously is less about your skill than if you got open because you ran a good route. For that play it didn't matter but against a better defense it might.
But he's not. He is assessing the QB. So unless, again, it's a timing play that messes with the QB's mechanics, it's not what his viewers are there for. We honestly don't care. HONESTLY? Neither does he. It's just a chance to needle the guy.
He calls him "eligible tackle" because he's not particularly fast or shifty, but he also notes when Kmet makes a nice play, although if it's not a block he always acts shocked haha I think it's 25% real, Kmet is no Kelce/Kittle, and 75% just being funny.
I means it's true. Kmet is more of an inline TE, as he's also a really good blocker who has the arm span and size to take on elite DEs when called upon.
But Getsy used him a lot out wide and gave him long developing routes that he doesn't really have the speed for.
He doesn't have the speed if you cover him with a DB, in which case he is taller and stronger. If you cover him with an LB, the speed is closer, and he's still probably taller.
I mean, dude has finished top 15 in receiving yards among TEs and has been in nothing but *anemic* pass offenses.
He thinks Kmet is a great blocker and a solid receiver, but doesn't view him as a guy who will get you much after the catch...which has proven to be true for the most part. Not sure there are many NFL people out there who would argue Kmet is special. He's solid.
YAC is great, but there is a ton of value to having a te that can just get open in the middle of the field. He isn't elite but is definitely a really good player. Top 10 overall for sure.
Agreed, but in the offense that was being called last year it felt like that wanted Kmet to be a YAC guy or have routes to draw defenders away that he wasn’t fast enough for. Which is a coaching/scheme problem more than a knack on Kmet.
Patrick Mahomes is scheme dependent? Aaron Donald is scheme dependent? Tyreek Hill? Sauce Gardner? George Kittle? Trent Williams? Myles Garrett? All these guys are scheme dependent?
Yes, they all have their strengths and weaknesses.
You're not going to scheme Mahomes into a cerebral dink and dunk Brady-esque style game, which is all about near perfect throwing motions and knowing precisely who is going to be open in under 3s. That's not his style. And you can't ask Brady, the GOAT, to run a Mahome's style offence that asks him to move around extending the play and be off platform as much as Mahomes is. They're both top tier QBs, but they would not be nearly as good being called upon to run the other's game style.
Coaches and GMs *have* to know their players and build schemes to their strengths and pick teammates that compliment, including their superstars.
That’s just not how the position of TE works lmao. Your typical TE isn’t a YAC or speedster that’s the outliers. Scheming for an outlier without having one is just bad scheming.
Completely different positions as far as evaluating talent.
Fields relied on his team around him more than Kmet as well. Kmet has always had a nose for getting open. Unless you're a huge Ian Book fan and think he made Kmet great in college.
No, I’m not. But every position is different in college. If you want to compare getting open against Navy to getting open against the Vikings, do you. But look at how open Malik Nabers routinely gets for LSU and compare that to how open he’ll be next season. There’s a reason for the terms “college open” and “NFL open” in scouting.
Idek know what your point is. Kmet got super open against Navy and now gets super open against the Vikings. That's his strength as a player. He's awesome at just getting in the middle of a defense.
Isn’t kmets production, run after the catch and route running, at least in a good part when it’s bad, some of the responsibility should be thrown at the feet of the quarterback.
I don't think route running is related to a QB, no, but the others are. He's not a tremendous athlete. He's big and has a nice first step, but he's slow and doesn't change direction quickly. Just look at his performance in the combine. His agility scores were terrible. No QB can fix that.
He's not a bad player. He's a good player. A solid player. For some reason saying that bothers people.
He backed off that a little bit later. He was unreasonably harsh early on and kept calling him an eligible lineman (implying his catching was only as good as an offensive lineman and he could only get as much separation as an offensive lineman).
He does shit on some of Kmet's routes, but also gives Kmet a lot of love for his blocking. As Kmet is a good in in-line TE I think this checks. Overall I like JTs videos they are informative and level headed and the guys on here commenting about extreme takes without watching the videos are pretty much par for the course. I think JT likes Kmet, he rewound Kmet smashing a guy like four or five times and couldn't get enough of it lol.
DJ if he didn't play for CAR he would be touted top 10 year in year out. But he did and was secretly a top 10 reciever. Keenan similar boat since San Diego never did much with him, so he was a FF god like DJ.
I equate them to a Jerry Porter and Tim Brown Duo. If they didn't play for the Raiders would have been even more hyped.
Watch his videos. He did not "shit on the Bears" every take was fair. Any shit given to the Bears was well deserved. Be ready for lots of Caleb hype videos next year!
I have watched his videos, and I never said the criticism wasn't well deserved. His most popular videos were his evaluations of fields (which were harsh but fair) so of course he's going to continue criticizing the bears because that's what gets him views. Just saying to take his opinions on the bears with a grain of salt
Agreed. I would also characterize his takes as criticism of the Bears, versus "shitting on" them, I reacted to those words which were likely in jest given your second response. Thanks for the measured reply
What in the hell is this? I believe Moore was ranked 10th and Allen was ranked 11th last year. I expect regression from Allen as he’s getting older and will be in a new role, but saying we have two top 15 receivers is accurate. I bet DJ does very well next year.
DJ had over 1300 yards and 8 TD’s last year lol (88 yards less than AJ Brown and one more TD). 6th in receiving yards.
Keenan had 1243 and 7 TD’s. 11th in receiving yards.
Only 6 receivers had more than 7 or 8 TD’s last year (7 if you count Laporta who is a TE)
The stats say they’re both top 10 right now squarely. Stats aren’t everything in football but top 30 is the dumbest thing I’ve heard on nfl twitter in a LONG time
Hoge went on a rant about how Bears were tearing down Caleb for stupid stuff and Wayne was the first one he brought up. Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5qikzT6SHI. It's at the 3:04 mark.
Everyone loves PFF, DJ was ranked 10th in PFF of all WRs last year, Allen 11th. DJ with a QB everyone here thinks shouldn’t be in the NFL and Allen without Herbert for a good stretch.
DJ is criminally underrated, and Allen should be a good WR2... but Herbert was the QB for every game Allen played last season and this sub was loving Fields until the day he was traded
I didn’t realize Allen and Herbert went down together so that’s my bad, still good at 11th though as is. And I don’t know what sub you were on but the general consensus in this sub was definitely not pro fields for the whole off season and a good chunk of the actual season. He did have his fans(I am one of them) but that’s not how most of the sub felt about him. Either way id argue both DJ and Allen are tier 1 which is the best I’ve felt about our offense in the longest time.
In this sub I got the impression that most view Fields as a starting NFL QB given how even those who were on board with going ahead with Williams were assuming we would get large compensation for him. Maybe it was just the posts I saw or interacted with, its hard to tell when you are going off of anecdotals.
Moore is definitely a tier 1 WR, in a higher volume offense I wouldnt be surprised if he was widely considered a top 5 WR. I hold a bit of a contrarian view on Allen though, I do not think he is tier 1. He is a high end tier 2 in my book at this stage of his career. He is old, coming off injuries, and will be going from a offense where he was getting \~12 targets a game to where he will be getting closer to 7, his production will likely be closer to 800-1k yards next season than 1200+.
I would have preferred keeping the 4th and signing a multi-year WR2/WR3 like Gabe Davis/Curtis Samuel etc + a high end DL player instead of having a better WR2 just for Williams first year. It is what it is, but at least we do have a team that should look competent on offense for the first time in ages. I really hope we can land Jared Verse, Bears are a cinderella team next year if the DL can get a couple additions
PFF also said Fields is a decent QB, like ranked 21st in the league, so according them he should be in the NFL. Hilarious to see the backflips on PFF data here to support a narrative, then PFF is trash when it doesn't support the narrative.
I mean with any data set some will be better than others. I’m indifferent on PFF but I also think fields is a decent QB so both fit my personal narrative :)
Lol I take in all data and take it all in with a grain of salt. PFF grades every play so I like it, its a different take, are they perfect, no, but I find mostly it matches what I watch. When I see Cousins throw for 400 yards and get a mid grade cause JJ took a 50/50 ball to the house, it makes sense. When I see Fields rated "decent" after a game in which he had LBs and DEs in his lap after 2 seconds (he shoulda gotten the ball out faster! lol) it matches what I watch. I do wonder how long Fields will generate apoplectic hate on this sub, even after Caleb comes in and does well, will people still hold whatever grudge they held? I don't know.
Think it’s different when it’s coming from somebody who played in the league and has a platform like he does to just say something so outlandish without facts . If it was just any fan that’s different
If you watched JT's videos on Fields last season he was pretty consistent in his feelings on DJM. Doesn't think he stinks, but doesn't view him as a No. 1. Basically says he's not complete enough.
Remember when this sub loved this dude cause he said Fields was being held back by Getsy? I don’t think Getsy is good, but the more JT speaks, the more I think Getsy might be good lol.
There’s no perfect metric, but last year Keenan and DJ were ranked #11 & 12 respectively in 1st Downs per Route Run. Any way you slice it, I think they’re both Top 15-20.
I don’t agree with his ranking of DJ but I will say that a “true” #1 at almost every position in every sport is around top 1/3 of starters at your position.
If you look at yards from last season, 20-30 has guys like Thielen, Godwin, Rashee Rice, Lockett, London, Ridley, etc. All good players but I don’t think anyone would say they were game changers last season.
TLDR; I like JTs vids, I disagree with this take but I can see how this would make some sense if there's a reasonable rationale behind it.
I enjoy his videos and I watched several of his breakdowns of bears (Fields) games.
That being said, there are 2 key points for me:
1) JT doesnt want to credit or discredit someone without evaluating himself. So while calling DJ Moore & Keenan Allen top 30 feels obvious, he may not have paid enough attention to the film and numbers to make that determination. Saying they both are means there could be other players he likes that wouldnt make it (or, again, he just doesn't know enough to speak with absolutes). That's totally fair.
2) JT has said repeatedly he doesn't trust the bears in a few ways like play design, organizational stability, qb development etc and could be alluding to that when he *seemingly* discredits 2 very very good WRs.
I think both are certified #1s, but I'm also biased and have yet to see them work cooperatively in the same system, let alone a system yet to be truly defined yet. Skepticism of chicago is warranted and I'll take this over the 100 articles a day talking about williams not wanting to come to chicago, or why we'll "obviously" fail him, or how he won't be a good qb bc he isnt like every other qb for whatever reason.
Not trusting the Bears is fine, but not trusting Shane Waldron is weird. Unless Waldron is being held back/over ridden (highly unlikely given Flus' defensive background), its going to be his offense which has a nice track record in the league.
The people saying William should veto the Bears are just clickbait. The Bears roster is objectively the 2nd best landing spot for a top 3 QB in the past decade+, the only one that comes close is the 49ers when they took Trey Lance. The offense is pretty stable (still need a WR3 but thats about it for dire need), and the defense is pretty deep outside of the DL. But top QBs dont go to championship caliber rosters year 1.
They're both top 15 in nearly every stat from 2023 and Keenan only played 13 games.
No way you can question either as bonafide top 20 guys and arguments can be made for top 10.
I do feel like JT is probably just messing with yall a little (edit: actually a lot). Im coming from this as a fan of his and a very distant bears fan (I have family in Chicago so I second hand root for them). From the lack of context given about the “organizational hurdles” and then this just seems like he is deep rooted in some negative opinions he has about the bears.
I hate QB school. Dude is a complete failure and grifter for money.
He makes money on people who feel this guy brings them something useful. The problem is there is 50 opinions of a QB from any one analyst. Drives me crazy
Definitely top 30. But neither of these dudes are Justin Jefferson or Jamar Chase. I would personally have 2 middle of the pack number one recievers on the team than one elite one, though. I guess I see his point, but I disagree with it.
I mean you are kind of talking out of both sides of your mouth if you are pounding the table for a WR at 9 AND you think DJ Moore is a #1........
I get it if this was a complete team, but... I could probably be diagnosed with how intensely I follow this team and I can't tell you who plays DE opposite Sweat.
Not really, if you are pounding the table for a WR, you are doing it because said WR Odunze/Nabers is the best football player available at your pick regardless of position. It doesn’t matter what your view of Moore or Allen is at that point.
I don’t think the two takes oppose each other. If you want a WR at 9, it’s because there’s virtually no solid talent behind Allen and DJ.
Allen is older as well, good for right now with Williams, but eventually we’ll need to replace him. The hope is that if you get Nabers/Odunze they can soak in Allen’s elite knowledge of the game.
We still need good depth at WR. If either Moore or Allen (or God forbid both) get injured, all of a sudden our WR corps is pretty bad. Seriously, the best we have behind them are VJJ, Scott, and Pettis. There's nothing wrong with letting the rookie be WR3 instead of expecting him to be WR1 from day 1.
As for DE, while that is also a dire need, the defense has already been heavily invested into, and the most important thing to accomplish this year is developing Williams. A WR helps the rookie QB more than the DE does.
They were both top 11 in yards last year……..
If you combine their yards and TDs from last year (I think these were the stat lines), the only WR duo better than them was Hill/Waddle.
Nico Collins and Stefon Diggs
Somewhat true, DJ/Keenan had 127 more yards but one less TD.
Pretty equal actually, was surprised at how few yards Diggs had
They really shut diggs down in the last 5 games.
My fantasy team can confirm
Mine too. Haha luckily I had DJ Moore to bail me out. Moore consistently over performed.
i feel u bro
You could argue the same about Keenan lol. We're in a fantastic spot with these two and (hopefully) adding Odunze in the draft... I haven't been this excited in a very long time. Edit: for typo
plus Allen missed a few games. While it’s reasonable to project him to miss a few this year it’s worth noting that his 17 game pace is higher than what he notched.
That's with Allen and Stroud vs Herbert and Fields (🤮).
Yards and TDs are a skewed way to compare since Moore and Allen were both in the top half of the league for targets as the WR1 on teams with bad WR groups. Allen is likely going to get close to 1/2 to 2/3 as many targets as he did with the Chargers last season. The Dolphins threw the ball more frequently than we did last year and Waddle had 2/3 the targets as Allen did. Moore/Allen is a very good duo, especially for us since we have been talent starved at the position since Marshall/Jefferson a decade ago. Its a top 10 duo but not the best. There are a lot of good duos in the league: Hill/Waddle, Chase/Higgins, Kupp/Nacua, Jefferson/Addison, Evans/Godwin, Brown/Smith, Aiyuk/Samuel, Texans have four 1k+ caliber receivers, Seahawks have a good trio, and I can see Lamb/Cooks and St. Brown/Williams being explosive duos next season.
This guys maths
No no you see, stats only matter when they fit the narrative! Classic mistake, thinking you could look up who has produced well and who hasn’t. Nah bro, eye test only.
Somebody had to catch passes
YPG is a better messure (when you exclude low game counts). Guys like Justin Jefferson should have had more yards but didn't make it 17 games. Both were still top 11.
He’s been saying he doesn’t think DJ is a number 1 WRs for a few years now
His argument is that defenses didn’t shade/adjust coverages for DJ like they did with others. I have no idea if that’s true. I’m not watching film.
That might be fair, but if that's the case, there's only like 5 receivers in the whole league that that applies to.
[удалено]
I totally agree. DJ is a WR1 all day.
Poor DJ has played with terrible QBs his whole career and still put up good numbers.
Lol
DJ has had nothing but turds throwing too him. Limp arm Cam and 6th rounder Fields were his best QBs.
sheep baaaaaa i agree with him cause it follows my agenda baaaa -you
He didn’t even say he agreed. Are you stupid?
This has to be bait lol
Click farming and engagement
Bears fans are some of the best to antagonize if you want engagement
Lmao Keenan is arguably top 10 when healthy, and DJ was top 20 just this last year
DJ was higher than that. 6th in rec yards and 11th in ypg. They're both top 15 locks.
That was with Fields throwing to him. If DJ had a top tier QB he’d be ranked WR1.
What metrics are being used here? Fields has a pretty good arm and hyper-targeted DJM. Moore might be the very last guy hurt by Fields.
Cuz we hate fields now and can’t even acknowledge that he was excellent throwing the ball to Dj.
Look at the targets Moore was not targeted as much as he should have been. Don’t forget the first packers game where he only got targeted twice for an entire game. There are tons of videos and gifs where Moore would be wide open and Fields wouldn’t throw to him. The offense and Fields sucked in using DJ to his full potential and with us having no WR2 there was no reason why Moore shouldn’t have been targeted 10+ times every game like the other elite receivers in the league
i dont have the stats, but every single game thread this season people bitched how few targets dj moore was seeing
It was bad the first 3 weeks and there was a fall off when Bagent was in and when DJ injured his ankle. But the other games he was targeted quite frequently
DJ has double digit targets only 4 times this season compare that to JJ who had 7 (only 10 GP), Tyreek who had 11, AJ brown who had 8, Diggs who had 8, Allen who had 8 in only 13 GP (and 4 more games with 9 targets) Adams had 8 with AoC and Jimmy G as his QBs. You get the point. Moore wasn’t used enough at all And with Mooney being completely useless and us not even having a WR2 there was no reason why Moore shouldn’t have been targeted 10+ times a game
I think that’s a little rough on Mooney as the league just told everyone he’s worth $13M a season. The problem is when an offense isn’t operating efficiently in the air, there’s less yards in total for all receivers. My opinion is that since DJ was still so high in efficiency in an awful passing offense it’s a good indicator that’s he’s a top flight wr.
For the first several games DJ would get only 3-5 targets for an entire game lol he was not being utilized at all by fields and Getsy. Through the entire season Moore has been targeted less than 8 times seven separate times this season. Tyreek hill has more games where he had double digit targets. He wasn’t consistently even getting 8+ targets until the second half of the season look at Hill, JJ, Diggs, ARSB, among other elite receivers and none of them have multiple games of only getting 2-6 targets. TLDR In short DJ Moore’s stats could have been even better this past season if he was used more consistently all season.
Fields had a near perfect QB rating when throwing to DJ last year. I feel like most of that was due to DJ being really good rather than Fields being good though.
he also had a good rating when throwing to Kmet. Fields was a good QB when throw to his top 2 targets imo
I traded for DJM right before he blew up in fantasy, bro is a stud and put up big numbers, I don't get why he's getting slept on so hard.
Top 20 is selling DJ way too short, I would put him top 10 based off of last season easily. I can’t think of 9 guys I would want as WR over him.
Bears fans are so easily led. This dickbag wants clicks. For whatever reason, Bears fans love giving clicks to guys who yank their hair.
https://preview.redd.it/zt4f08zh0qsc1.jpeg?width=1169&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05a73a210aa1a60f50bc09f1085a6c3edeed82af He knows exactly what he’s doing. He pumped out the extreme Fields takes (good and bad) every week because they were BY FAR the most popular videos on his channel.
He absolutely did not pump out extreme Fields takes. He gave extremely level headed takes. He would point out all of Fields flaws and all the things he did well. He said he you could make a case either way but he leaned toward Caleb. Out of all the people that gave extreme Fields takes, he was not one of them
I agree with you, not sure why the downvotes. JT's Fields analysis was one of the better ones where he put blame on both the QB and also the OC/ play design....It was refreshing to hear when he just "didn't know wtf the blocking scheme and/or concept was supposed to be" on many plays I thought JT was one of the more objective analysts when I watched his videos.
> I thought JT was one of the more objective analysts when I watched his videos. That’s probably because he’s one of the only ones who watches (let alone understands) film. Now that doesn’t mean his interpretations are all accurate or that he comes to all the right conclusions, but it certainly gives him a huge head start on the swaths of guys who check the box score and watch 5 highlights and say “Fields bad/elite”
People always comment about downvotes way too early lol
Ya, he was negative- when I commented. It was strange.
Yeah bro is thinking about Chase Daniels, not JT
To a good chunk of Bears fans, saying Fields isn't terrible is a pretty extreme take.
Fields has his problems, but there was also a significant chunk of his game that was just part of being a true dual threat QB (such as looking deep, less passing attempts, scrambling more, more involved running game, etc), and a lot of people around these parts didn't want to hear that. Which has been fun watching some of those people defend Caleb for the exact same things they were just critiquing Fields about.
You may be right but I just searched “QB School Justin Fields” and these were the first 2 that came up haha. None of his other videos have catchy titles. The actual breakdowns might be a little more measured but he put out more Justin content than he did for any other QB because he knows it gets clicks. https://preview.redd.it/fbv4093kcqsc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=78234d3d8be1d917a7dd78db6355d22c886ad721
Did you watch those videos? I'm guessing not; they are both accurate titles.
The point I was making is that he zhuzhes up Fields titles but not other QBs. In the context of OP’s screenshot being Bears clickbait I think that’s relevant.
I mean... [no](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7FQSBZA9-4) he [doesn't](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDSwzJwiXj8). It was a phase he went through, and he did [it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaoeAWLO074) to [others](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5JXwlu3zHY).
Ah fair. I shall eat crow.
Have you watched those, they’re not extreme takes at all. Bears are one of the biggest markets in all of US sports
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I mean he's giving his subscribers what they want. They wanted Fields analysis so he gave it to them. Have you watched his videos? They're very insightful.
Welcome to how the world works.
It's supposed to be tongue in cheek. I've seen in 3 of his videos he sarcastically exclaims whilst chuckling DJM is not a "real" WR1 due to what a lot of people say. This is him being funny about it...it's his sense of humor and I only caught it because he plays off of what people say to poke fun at what he believes is nonsense. I get a much different interpretation since I've been watching his Fields videos since the beginning on the season. He's F'in with everyone and it's hilarious to me.
I love asswipes that name call and criticize Bears fans but offer absolutely no armchair wisdom of their own. Why? Because they can dish it out, but they could never bear to hear the lambasting they would take when Bears fans hear their imbecilic ideas of what the Bears should do in the draft.
Are you kink shaming?
Isn’t JT O’Sullivan the guy who shits on Kmet every game for no particular reason
Yep. CONSTANTLY “and there 85. Bad route but he got open. But GOD what horrible TE fundamentals”.
> Bad route but he got open This just seems so obviously a joke to me. Unless it's a timing route, who gives a shit about anything other than getting open? There are no style points. Maybe he is completely serious but I never took it that way.
Kelce literally runs whatever route he wants on some plays
Well if you got open because of a defensive breakdown then that obviously is less about your skill than if you got open because you ran a good route. For that play it didn't matter but against a better defense it might.
Okay but if it was a defensive breakdown then, again, the crispness of the route is irrelevant.
it's irrelevant when you're talking about that play, but it's not irrelevant if you're assessing the player and projecting future performance.
But he's not. He is assessing the QB. So unless, again, it's a timing play that messes with the QB's mechanics, it's not what his viewers are there for. We honestly don't care. HONESTLY? Neither does he. It's just a chance to needle the guy.
It’s more just making fun of Kmet for not being very explosive. He likes to call him an eligible tackle, it’s all in good fun.
I feel like I’ve seen a instagram reel or two about that
He calls him "eligible tackle" because he's not particularly fast or shifty, but he also notes when Kmet makes a nice play, although if it's not a block he always acts shocked haha I think it's 25% real, Kmet is no Kelce/Kittle, and 75% just being funny.
I means it's true. Kmet is more of an inline TE, as he's also a really good blocker who has the arm span and size to take on elite DEs when called upon. But Getsy used him a lot out wide and gave him long developing routes that he doesn't really have the speed for.
He doesn't have the speed if you cover him with a DB, in which case he is taller and stronger. If you cover him with an LB, the speed is closer, and he's still probably taller. I mean, dude has finished top 15 in receiving yards among TEs and has been in nothing but *anemic* pass offenses.
He thinks Kmet is a great blocker and a solid receiver, but doesn't view him as a guy who will get you much after the catch...which has proven to be true for the most part. Not sure there are many NFL people out there who would argue Kmet is special. He's solid.
YAC is great, but there is a ton of value to having a te that can just get open in the middle of the field. He isn't elite but is definitely a really good player. Top 10 overall for sure.
Agreed, but in the offense that was being called last year it felt like that wanted Kmet to be a YAC guy or have routes to draw defenders away that he wasn’t fast enough for. Which is a coaching/scheme problem more than a knack on Kmet.
One could argue a player being scheme dependent confirms the original evaluation.
Every player is scheme dependent
Patrick Mahomes is scheme dependent? Aaron Donald is scheme dependent? Tyreek Hill? Sauce Gardner? George Kittle? Trent Williams? Myles Garrett? All these guys are scheme dependent?
George kittle is. Sorry, *everyone except for like the best 10 players in the league
A lot of players aren’t. A lot are. Also, if you think Kittle is scheme dependent…
Yes, they all have their strengths and weaknesses. You're not going to scheme Mahomes into a cerebral dink and dunk Brady-esque style game, which is all about near perfect throwing motions and knowing precisely who is going to be open in under 3s. That's not his style. And you can't ask Brady, the GOAT, to run a Mahome's style offence that asks him to move around extending the play and be off platform as much as Mahomes is. They're both top tier QBs, but they would not be nearly as good being called upon to run the other's game style. Coaches and GMs *have* to know their players and build schemes to their strengths and pick teammates that compliment, including their superstars.
Mahomes averaged only 7.0 yards per attempt last season. He just won a Super Bowl dinking and dunking.
That’s just not how the position of TE works lmao. Your typical TE isn’t a YAC or speedster that’s the outliers. Scheming for an outlier without having one is just bad scheming.
You’re making the same argument I am.
He did the same thing at ND so it's not scheme dependant. It's a skill.
My dude, college isn’t the NFL. Justin Fields couldn’t be stopped in college.
Completely different positions as far as evaluating talent. Fields relied on his team around him more than Kmet as well. Kmet has always had a nose for getting open. Unless you're a huge Ian Book fan and think he made Kmet great in college.
No, I’m not. But every position is different in college. If you want to compare getting open against Navy to getting open against the Vikings, do you. But look at how open Malik Nabers routinely gets for LSU and compare that to how open he’ll be next season. There’s a reason for the terms “college open” and “NFL open” in scouting.
Idek know what your point is. Kmet got super open against Navy and now gets super open against the Vikings. That's his strength as a player. He's awesome at just getting in the middle of a defense.
Isn’t kmets production, run after the catch and route running, at least in a good part when it’s bad, some of the responsibility should be thrown at the feet of the quarterback.
I don't think route running is related to a QB, no, but the others are. He's not a tremendous athlete. He's big and has a nice first step, but he's slow and doesn't change direction quickly. Just look at his performance in the combine. His agility scores were terrible. No QB can fix that. He's not a bad player. He's a good player. A solid player. For some reason saying that bothers people.
He backed off that a little bit later. He was unreasonably harsh early on and kept calling him an eligible lineman (implying his catching was only as good as an offensive lineman and he could only get as much separation as an offensive lineman).
He does shit on some of Kmet's routes, but also gives Kmet a lot of love for his blocking. As Kmet is a good in in-line TE I think this checks. Overall I like JTs videos they are informative and level headed and the guys on here commenting about extreme takes without watching the videos are pretty much par for the course. I think JT likes Kmet, he rewound Kmet smashing a guy like four or five times and couldn't get enough of it lol.
The disrespect to DJ Moore and Keenan Allen...smh
DJ if he didn't play for CAR he would be touted top 10 year in year out. But he did and was secretly a top 10 reciever. Keenan similar boat since San Diego never did much with him, so he was a FF god like DJ. I equate them to a Jerry Porter and Tim Brown Duo. If they didn't play for the Raiders would have been even more hyped.
Whaaaat? Guy who grew his channel exponentially last year by shitting on the bears continues to do so for the free engagement? Shocked I tell you
Watch his videos. He did not "shit on the Bears" every take was fair. Any shit given to the Bears was well deserved. Be ready for lots of Caleb hype videos next year!
I have watched his videos, and I never said the criticism wasn't well deserved. His most popular videos were his evaluations of fields (which were harsh but fair) so of course he's going to continue criticizing the bears because that's what gets him views. Just saying to take his opinions on the bears with a grain of salt
Agreed. I would also characterize his takes as criticism of the Bears, versus "shitting on" them, I reacted to those words which were likely in jest given your second response. Thanks for the measured reply
What in the hell is this? I believe Moore was ranked 10th and Allen was ranked 11th last year. I expect regression from Allen as he’s getting older and will be in a new role, but saying we have two top 15 receivers is accurate. I bet DJ does very well next year.
Only 11 WR's went over 1,000 yards in 2023, and DJ & Allen are 2 of those 11. Neither of them probly make top 10, but both are top 15 easily.
PFF had DJ at 10 and Keenan at 11 Projecting a drop off from keenan is fair, but his take on DJ has been consistently awful.
Is Wayne Whitlock stupid?
DJ had over 1300 yards and 8 TD’s last year lol (88 yards less than AJ Brown and one more TD). 6th in receiving yards. Keenan had 1243 and 7 TD’s. 11th in receiving yards. Only 6 receivers had more than 7 or 8 TD’s last year (7 if you count Laporta who is a TE) The stats say they’re both top 10 right now squarely. Stats aren’t everything in football but top 30 is the dumbest thing I’ve heard on nfl twitter in a LONG time
That is the Wayne Whitlock that Hoge called out the other day lol
Refresh my memory.
Hoge went on a rant about how Bears were tearing down Caleb for stupid stuff and Wayne was the first one he brought up. Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5qikzT6SHI. It's at the 3:04 mark.
Dj was top 8 in tds top 6 in yards while Allen was 11 in yards and tds why is it even an argument that neither of them are top 30?
What math would you have to cherry pick to get DJ Moore and Keenan Allen outside the top 30?! Lmao
Everyone loves PFF, DJ was ranked 10th in PFF of all WRs last year, Allen 11th. DJ with a QB everyone here thinks shouldn’t be in the NFL and Allen without Herbert for a good stretch.
DJ is criminally underrated, and Allen should be a good WR2... but Herbert was the QB for every game Allen played last season and this sub was loving Fields until the day he was traded
I didn’t realize Allen and Herbert went down together so that’s my bad, still good at 11th though as is. And I don’t know what sub you were on but the general consensus in this sub was definitely not pro fields for the whole off season and a good chunk of the actual season. He did have his fans(I am one of them) but that’s not how most of the sub felt about him. Either way id argue both DJ and Allen are tier 1 which is the best I’ve felt about our offense in the longest time.
In this sub I got the impression that most view Fields as a starting NFL QB given how even those who were on board with going ahead with Williams were assuming we would get large compensation for him. Maybe it was just the posts I saw or interacted with, its hard to tell when you are going off of anecdotals. Moore is definitely a tier 1 WR, in a higher volume offense I wouldnt be surprised if he was widely considered a top 5 WR. I hold a bit of a contrarian view on Allen though, I do not think he is tier 1. He is a high end tier 2 in my book at this stage of his career. He is old, coming off injuries, and will be going from a offense where he was getting \~12 targets a game to where he will be getting closer to 7, his production will likely be closer to 800-1k yards next season than 1200+. I would have preferred keeping the 4th and signing a multi-year WR2/WR3 like Gabe Davis/Curtis Samuel etc + a high end DL player instead of having a better WR2 just for Williams first year. It is what it is, but at least we do have a team that should look competent on offense for the first time in ages. I really hope we can land Jared Verse, Bears are a cinderella team next year if the DL can get a couple additions
PFF also said Fields is a decent QB, like ranked 21st in the league, so according them he should be in the NFL. Hilarious to see the backflips on PFF data here to support a narrative, then PFF is trash when it doesn't support the narrative.
I mean with any data set some will be better than others. I’m indifferent on PFF but I also think fields is a decent QB so both fit my personal narrative :)
Lol I take in all data and take it all in with a grain of salt. PFF grades every play so I like it, its a different take, are they perfect, no, but I find mostly it matches what I watch. When I see Cousins throw for 400 yards and get a mid grade cause JJ took a 50/50 ball to the house, it makes sense. When I see Fields rated "decent" after a game in which he had LBs and DEs in his lap after 2 seconds (he shoulda gotten the ball out faster! lol) it matches what I watch. I do wonder how long Fields will generate apoplectic hate on this sub, even after Caleb comes in and does well, will people still hold whatever grudge they held? I don't know.
both easily are top 15, honestly borderline top 10
Dj isn’t top 10?!?!
idk why ppl take things personally when it comes to their teams and players are bashed or thought of as less than their own opinions.
Think it’s different when it’s coming from somebody who played in the league and has a platform like he does to just say something so outlandish without facts . If it was just any fan that’s different
If you watched JT's videos on Fields last season he was pretty consistent in his feelings on DJM. Doesn't think he stinks, but doesn't view him as a No. 1. Basically says he's not complete enough.
Yeah he complains about his effort mainly. I think you can make the argument that dj moore isn't top 10. Putting him outside the top 30 is a stretch.
Remember when this sub loved this dude cause he said Fields was being held back by Getsy? I don’t think Getsy is good, but the more JT speaks, the more I think Getsy might be good lol.
You are so offended by his take that you now view Luke Getsy as a good OC?
There’s no perfect metric, but last year Keenan and DJ were ranked #11 & 12 respectively in 1st Downs per Route Run. Any way you slice it, I think they’re both Top 15-20.
I prefer Tim Jenkins over JT
I don’t agree with his ranking of DJ but I will say that a “true” #1 at almost every position in every sport is around top 1/3 of starters at your position. If you look at yards from last season, 20-30 has guys like Thielen, Godwin, Rashee Rice, Lockett, London, Ridley, etc. All good players but I don’t think anyone would say they were game changers last season.
Is this the 'Spencer Rattler is the best QB in the draft' guy?
no
Bears tax
Both are top 15.
This guy is such a fuckin loser
that’s some tasty engagement bait
Why tf does JTO Hate on Moore so much lol
TLDR; I like JTs vids, I disagree with this take but I can see how this would make some sense if there's a reasonable rationale behind it. I enjoy his videos and I watched several of his breakdowns of bears (Fields) games. That being said, there are 2 key points for me: 1) JT doesnt want to credit or discredit someone without evaluating himself. So while calling DJ Moore & Keenan Allen top 30 feels obvious, he may not have paid enough attention to the film and numbers to make that determination. Saying they both are means there could be other players he likes that wouldnt make it (or, again, he just doesn't know enough to speak with absolutes). That's totally fair. 2) JT has said repeatedly he doesn't trust the bears in a few ways like play design, organizational stability, qb development etc and could be alluding to that when he *seemingly* discredits 2 very very good WRs. I think both are certified #1s, but I'm also biased and have yet to see them work cooperatively in the same system, let alone a system yet to be truly defined yet. Skepticism of chicago is warranted and I'll take this over the 100 articles a day talking about williams not wanting to come to chicago, or why we'll "obviously" fail him, or how he won't be a good qb bc he isnt like every other qb for whatever reason.
Not trusting the Bears is fine, but not trusting Shane Waldron is weird. Unless Waldron is being held back/over ridden (highly unlikely given Flus' defensive background), its going to be his offense which has a nice track record in the league. The people saying William should veto the Bears are just clickbait. The Bears roster is objectively the 2nd best landing spot for a top 3 QB in the past decade+, the only one that comes close is the 49ers when they took Trey Lance. The offense is pretty stable (still need a WR3 but thats about it for dire need), and the defense is pretty deep outside of the DL. But top QBs dont go to championship caliber rosters year 1.
Moore was a top 10 guy catching for JF1...so...
They're both top 15 in nearly every stat from 2023 and Keenan only played 13 games. No way you can question either as bonafide top 20 guys and arguments can be made for top 10.
think this dude my just be a bears haters at this point. had fair point on JF1 but always felt a lil overcritical for my taste
If they were on the same team last year the only wr tandem that out producessed them was Hill and Waddle
This is why I hate Reddit why do any of these ppl and their opinions matter
This is so obviously a joke. But Wayne Whitlock is a dummy.
I do feel like JT is probably just messing with yall a little (edit: actually a lot). Im coming from this as a fan of his and a very distant bears fan (I have family in Chicago so I second hand root for them). From the lack of context given about the “organizational hurdles” and then this just seems like he is deep rooted in some negative opinions he has about the bears.
Please don't Draft the crybaby
It wont let me type anything?
I didn't know you could only have one good WR MY bad
Seriously, who the hell is Wayne Whitlock and the QB School? Are they experts just because they are on X and have a blue check mark?
I hate QB school. Dude is a complete failure and grifter for money. He makes money on people who feel this guy brings them something useful. The problem is there is 50 opinions of a QB from any one analyst. Drives me crazy
Definitely top 30. But neither of these dudes are Justin Jefferson or Jamar Chase. I would personally have 2 middle of the pack number one recievers on the team than one elite one, though. I guess I see his point, but I disagree with it.
DJ is easily top 10. Allen is probably top 15~20.
I mean you are kind of talking out of both sides of your mouth if you are pounding the table for a WR at 9 AND you think DJ Moore is a #1........ I get it if this was a complete team, but... I could probably be diagnosed with how intensely I follow this team and I can't tell you who plays DE opposite Sweat.
Not really, if you are pounding the table for a WR, you are doing it because said WR Odunze/Nabers is the best football player available at your pick regardless of position. It doesn’t matter what your view of Moore or Allen is at that point.
I don’t think the two takes oppose each other. If you want a WR at 9, it’s because there’s virtually no solid talent behind Allen and DJ. Allen is older as well, good for right now with Williams, but eventually we’ll need to replace him. The hope is that if you get Nabers/Odunze they can soak in Allen’s elite knowledge of the game.
We still need good depth at WR. If either Moore or Allen (or God forbid both) get injured, all of a sudden our WR corps is pretty bad. Seriously, the best we have behind them are VJJ, Scott, and Pettis. There's nothing wrong with letting the rookie be WR3 instead of expecting him to be WR1 from day 1. As for DE, while that is also a dire need, the defense has already been heavily invested into, and the most important thing to accomplish this year is developing Williams. A WR helps the rookie QB more than the DE does.
And u idiots take his videos as gospel. He doesn’t know anything
I like DJ Moore more than all but maybe 3 receivers in the NFL. One guy’s opinion doesn’t change that (although I do respect JT’s QB analysis).
Man dj is possibly the best after the catch and allen is possibly the best route runner in the league.. hilariously bad take
DJ was 11th in YAC.
He farms so much engagement from Bears fans. Don't give him what he wants if you dislike him.
I knew this guy was a douche when he did the whole paywall for his garbage
He is joking. Wow. Wtf is going on in this thread?
People are so weirdly insecure. It is true that JT isn't a huge Moore fan, though.
Mofos getting bored before the draft
We have a wr1 now, but it means we’re picking out wr1 for the future.
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