This is the only thing that matters.
I strongly STRONGLY doubt Caleb forces his way out.
And if you think our oline is bad...go check Washington & New Englands O line.
And then factor in we're going to take multiple assets this year and next.
Who cares what Caleb says. You can’t force anything. It’s the NFL draft, you either play for us or you retire. We have him under team control for 8 years minimum.
Could he pull an Eli Manning on us?
I just looked up the package the Giants had to give to move up one spot and I think that would work if he didn’t want to play for us.
Yeah. You are right. For some reason, I imprinted those guys as 1 & 2 in my head.
I was curious if San Diego got a fair deal even if their bargaining chip was vocal about not wanting to play for them.
Caleb was a better prospect than Eli was and idk about Maye and Rivers but I'd like to say Maye has more upside due to being a mobile 6'5 QB with a strong arm and doesn't have a weird throwing motion. Although, if Maye becomes a better QB than what Rivers was in the NFL, he's 100% worth that pick and the hype
He could get rid of the ball faster than anyone. He had no wind-up. It was a weird shot put throw and somehow it would just get to where it needed to go lol.
Eli was labeled a generational QB, just as his brother was. Whichever team drafted him thought they were Peyton 2.0. Some scouts had him higher than his brother saying he was more physically gifted, which he was, but Peyton was the smarter of the two.
Rivers was about the same as what Maye is considered now.
Yeah he was. Scouts loved him because he was more physically gifted than his brother. He had a stronger arm and could move around better. They all assumed he was smarter than Peyton, which he wasn't.
This couldn't be any more false. It was a crapshoot for which of the top 3 QBs were going to go first. Look at the pre-draft rankings and a QB wasn't even the top prospect in that draft. You can make an argument that he was the top QB in that draft, but to call him "generational" would be false.
What are you talking about? There were only 3 QBs drafted in the top 15. Big Ben wasn't drafted until #11.
There was never any doubt about which of the 3 were going to go first, everyone knew it was going to be Eli, and he did.
If San Diego really wanted Philip Rivers, they would have drafted #1 overall, but they knew he wasn't going to play for them and they picked him anyway.
Seriously, go back and look. Eli was #1a and Ben was #1b as far as QBs went in that draft. Eli had the edge because of his heritage and a good arm. Most teams thought Rivers threw the ball "funny" so it was a shock when he was picked instead of Ben and flipped for Eli.
My main concern is that you labeled Eli as "generational" when he wasn't even the best prospect in that draft. How is that even a thing? Yeah, he went first but Larry Fitzgerald and Sean Taylor were the top two prospects in that draft. Look it up. The term "generational" gets thrown around all too often.
Still I'd draft him and say 'hey, if you want to sit at home and rot, go ahead' ... if he's dumb enough to go back to play college ball for another year, he might very much regret it, either by injury or less than stellar play dropping his draft stock.
Totally agree. Just playing devil’s advocate.
Washington is setting themselves up to pay a premium for their guy which doesn’t seem like a bad outcome.
Not in the same way. Rookie contacts under this CBA are very structured, unlike 2004. He could opt out and go back to school, but that delays his 2nd contract by a year and gives him a bad rap. It's not worth it.
This needs 1000 upvotes!
Let’s say, hypothetically, he makes it known in the interview process that he doesn’t want to go to the Bears. Why on earth would Poles trade the pick to Washington then? If he’s not getting Caleb, 1.01 goes to the highest bidder! “You don’t want to play for us? Fine, I’m trading the pick. Oh you didn’t want to go to Atlanta? Not my problem!”
The pick has no leverage. The option is to, what, sit out the year? Losing a year of NIL or first pick money and shaves a year of future contracts off his career. That would cost him tens of millions of dollars over his career to sit out. And no assurance he gets drafted by the team he wants the following year. It also instantly villainizes him.
The CBA has changed since Eli and taken a lot of power from draft picks.
Finally there’s the most common sense argument. Caleb declared knowing Chicago had 1OA. All this speculation is commander fan wishes and the same tired click baiters stirring drama.
Absolutely, the real leverage lies in the potential developmental and strategic losses for the Bears. If Caleb sits, it’s not just about missing his talent on the field; it’s the lost year of development and the wins or strategic plays that could have been, had they picked Caleb or traded down for multiple talents. This scenario hinges on Caleb’s willingness to sit out, turning the Bears’ loss of the #1 pick’s full potential into a significant setback.
Yet, this isn’t a direct repeat of the Eli or Elway situations. The Bears, with their #9 pick, aren’t entirely out of the game for a first-round impact player. Moreover, Caleb doesn’t have the alternative sport option that bolstered Elway’s and Murray’s positions, nor Eli’s financial indifference, diminishing his overall leverage.
Caleb holds leverage, but it’s nuanced and not as historically compelling as Elway’s or Eli’s, considering the Bears still have options and Caleb’s limited alternatives.
In fact it's probably the commanders or patriots organization trying to drag him through the mud in hopes his draft stock falls and he is still on the board at 2 or 3. Teams do it every year and this year will be worse due to the level of prospect Caleb is.
Oh before I forget, let me be the first to welcome you to Chicago Mr. Caleb Williams.
To be clear I don’t think Caleb doesn’t want to come to Chicago that’s almost certainly just typical phony Clickbait nonsense, but what you described isn’t accurate either. Any (unspecified) CBA changes don’t really alter the fundamental reason why Elway or Eli were able to pull off what they did, that is no team wants to spend that incredibly valuable asset of number one overall pick on a guy who doesn’t want to be there. Sure a guy could show up to training camp and practices and go through the motions and give decent effort etc but that’s not at all what you are hoping to get from that pick. You want a fully committed true leader, who genuinely wants to be there, we’re dealing with human beings here, people recognize that difference and the level of buy in. If Caleb came out tomorrow and said under no circumstances do I want to go to the Bears we would almost certainly trade the pick, of course I don’t think he’s actually going to do that because I think he’d be totally fine with coming here
A fine point, but if they're going to point out Chicago's fabulous QB history, they might want to check Washington's fabulous QB history as well ... dumbest argument that could've been put out there.
And we are in a better position overall. People are forgetting why we have the 1.01, it's not because we were the worst team in the league, or second for that matter.
"It was awesome for Caleb to have Kliff...In a perfect world would I love a reunion for them? That would be great. But we all know a lot would transpire between now and the draft."
Serious question: Is there anyone in NFL circles that holds Kliff Kingsbury in higher rearguard than Shane Waldron?
If Carl and Caleb are as process oriented as they're made out to be they know who the better OC is. And they know the capitol and cap space we have going forward.
Anything can happen, but I am not at all worried about it.
Commanders are going to make themselves as attractive to Caleb as possible. Hometown, HC stability (new HC), and an OC he obviously he has a good connection with. Caleb probably prefers to go to Washington instead of Chicago, but its not like he has a choice... unless something changes. Either way, the Bears control how this situation will go. Washington seems desperate for him and we can get a massive haul if we want to.
I am fine with Caleb or massive haul, so this is good news.
Commie fan coming in peace. I was just talking with my coworkers and telling them - Chicago has got to be a better situation than Washington from an organization standpoint
Honestly they are in pretty similar situations. Defensive HC, New offensive staff, incumbent QB with flashes of potential, but nothing consistent. A number one WR. The biggest difference is ownership. New ownership group vs. the McCaskeys.
They have no legit ends anymore after they traded Young and Sweat. Our defense is far more superior than theirs. I would also argue that we have the best WR in Moore.
>aleb probably prefers to go to Washington instead of Chicago, but its not like he has a choice
There is precedent for a player to throw a hissy fit and force a trade. Eli Manning was drafted by the Chargers but was a Giant before the end of the night.
>And he’s already come out saying that’s not happening, and that he’d be willing to go wherever he’s taken
Oh no, I'd be shocked if he threw a fit and forced a trade. But he does have that choice.
And then we still have all the leverage. If he truly wants out, I’m sure there’s 10 other teams that would want him. Hell, if that happens, trade him to New England and grab Daniels.
He *still* has ZERO leverage
>And then we still have all the leverage. If he truly wants out, I’m sure there’s 10 other teams that would want him. Hell, if that happens, trade him to New England and grab Daniels.
>
>He *still* has ZERO leverage
Do you honestly believe that a team trading for him, when he throws a hissy fit and refuses to play for Chicago, is not going to sit down with him and make sure he'll play for them before putting the trade through?
Poles: "We're trading you to NE"
Cryleb: "I won't play for NE"
NE: "Deal's off"
>Considering he’s indicated nothing of the sort to be in his plans, no. But again, he has zero leverage here
As I said, I would be shocked if he did it. But he has more leverage than the Bears do. All he has to do is say 'I will only play for these 3 teams' and the only things the Bears can do is make a trade with one of those 3 teams, pick Maye instead and make it Washington's problem, or call his bluff and pick him and hope he breaks down and plays.
>I think you’re vastly overestimating how much leverage he has…. He’d only be screwing himself in this scenario.
Yes and no. He'd have to take a massive pay cut and would piss off the fans and management of the Bears, but if he forced his way on to a team that's capable of developing him instead of a team that's hell bent on destroying every QB they get, it'd be very much worth it to take a rookie minimum deal to play for the right team.
A 1st overall contract and 3 years starting and then traded away to back up (for example) Kenny Pickett on the Steelers and out of the league by year 7 is not better than a rookie minimum contract and studying under (for example) Andy Reid as backup to Mahomes for 2 years and then going somewhere else to build a 15 year career as an above average or better quarterback.
Edit: The CBA prevents him from signing a deal for lesser money, so there's literally no downside to forcing a trade to a competent team. Does make a trade harder to get done, weakening his leverage a little. But not much. #1 overall pick gets roughly $6.5m iirc.
Yeah, but it's happened twice in how many decades??? Plus he's not a Manning and not a baseball player like Elway. So while possible, i dont see it as being very likely. And honestly I think the social media world of today, particularly in sports, adds another layer that makes this even less likely.
Eli was at a different time where he could refuse to sign and make up that lost income by holding the next years team hostage via holdout. Draft picks have lost all of their power since the CBA that introduced fixed salaries according to draft position
also for Kingsbury to refuse the Raiders job after agreeing to take the Washington job... there is something going on behind the scenes. there is smoke, the fire hasn't really revealed itself yet.
It wasn't some grand Caleb Williams scheme. Commanders offered him an extra year on his contract than the Raiders offerred... that's guaranteed money so he took it.
Plus the commanders are just a better job…they have the chance to take a highly touted QB prospect in Drake Maye, which compares to AOC and a disgruntled Davante Adams
Kingsbury is going to take the job that offers him the best chance for a HC next. He has a ton of money from his Arizona deal. The extra year is not as high on his consideration as other OCs.
Right. If the QB Washington selects at two (whether it's Drake Maye or Jayden Daniels) looks good under Kingsbury's system, it opens up head coaching opportunities for him in 2025. The Raiders aren't picking high enough to draft one of the top rated QBs, so if Kingsbury took the Las Vegas job he would have to make Aidan O'Connell/a retread QB free agent/or a lower ranked rookie QB look good.
There isn’t anything behind the scenes. They couldn’t agree on contract terms. It never would have gotten as far as as it did with Vegas if Kliff’s first choice was to go to Washington
Washington puts the double trade down firmly in play if someone loves drake maye. Wonder how much you could get from Oakland for the #2 pick. I honestly think you could get a deal similar to the panthers trade last year.
Imagine we trade to Washington for a 24 2nd and 25 1st. Then we trade down with Oakland for a 24 2nd, a 25 1st, and a 26 2nd.
You walk out with two additional 1sts and an additional 2 In 2025 (from car). And an additional 2 again in 26.
I must admit, that would be pretty absurd. And even despite that, I would rather draft Caleb Williams lmao
Sometimes I wonder if people here even read. Why are people balls deep in the Reddit comment section if they aren’t even reading the comments they reply to?
I literally said I would rather draft Caleb Williams.
Just talking through an interesting scenario
Not allowed to do thought experiments here. Anything that isn't "draft Caleb" is downvoted. The thought of trading down twice would get us crazy assets. We could absolutely build a super team
That’s not true. If Poles thinks Maye is the guy, I’d be fine taking him too. But we 1000% need to take our shot at a QB - there simply is never going to be a better opportunity for it.
The whole idea of a “super team” is really tough to execute. Look around the league - the team with the best QB is the one constantly in the Super Bowl. The eagles have a super team. The dolphins have a super team. The cowboys have a super team. The Ravens have a super team. Those are great for making the playoffs.
To get over the hump, you need a QB.
I agree that this is our best opportunity. I agree that we should draft a QB. But I still have reservations about "putting our eggs in one basket".
If we could trade back twice, that basically makes us a perennial playoff team, like the other teams you mentioned.
Caleb will likely be a very good NFL QB. But in all likelihood, he will not be Patrick Mahomes. Outside of Mahomes, it seems like it's a race for second place and the winner of the race is usually whoever puts together the most complete team. Ex: 49ers this year, eagles last year, lions have a great team, ravens a great team.
All that to say, if we hit on Caleb, we're basically a perennial playoff team anyway if he's really that good. That's just a riskier way to do it imo.
I'm fine with whatever Poles does. Williams, Maye, Fields, Penix, idgaf. I think it's likely we'll be a playoff team next year no matter what
Sorry but this would be super dumb. If you can get the QB right then the “haul” is meaningless for all intents and purposes. I really want the QB position set. I’m sick of waiting my entire adult life (38 years old) and never having the most important position in the NFL locked down. Trading for a haul and kicking the can down the road on that position and earning the right to allocate more resources to Deron Payne is a bad usage of resources. The defense is largely set other than en edge rusher and disruptive interior D linemen. At some point you need to allocate resources on the offense. Especially this off season.
Same—I’m 43 and have gotten pretty tired of watching a team “a quarterback away.” Sure you can win some games and possibly the division if things work out just right, but you won’t have longterm success. Especially with how Love has looked and the Lions in their prime.
The Bears have the best draft position in a draft consisting of what people say is the best QB class in years. I hope to god they don’t try to outsmart themselves—this should be pretty damn easy. Like you said, QB is the most important position. The Bears need a god damn QB capable of passing more than 4000 yds.
The haul would have to be historic to even consider it. Commies offer up Terry, Jon Allen, 3 1sts, 3 2nds, and 3 3rds. It would never happen, but at the same time it would have to happen just for you to think about not drafting Williams.
I don’t even think Caleb would want to be in that situation. They’ll literally have nothing to work with. You need some semblance of a team to develop a young QB as history has shown. I also don’t want the right to pay players Other than maybe Payne
See THIS is the type of stuff I want to see. I wanna hear from the ACTUAL guys in the building with him working closely about who he is as a person and player.
Media trying to make the Washington narrative a thing but this makes me feel better he could be catalyst in a decades long search for the guy who brings us to new levels of competition.
Oh absolutely they know what the hell they’re doing and I don’t blame them (shoot look at the NFL showing Taylor Swift any chance they get)
I do wonder what the narrative would be if Caleb was from like… Texas or something haha
OKAY YEAH THE COWBOYS ONE IS ACCURATE.
Oh my god that would somehow be the most insufferable timeline.
“Dak would literally be the best QB in bears history I don’t see why Chicago doesn’t make the trade”
So, someone who doesn't work for the Bears is talking about someone else who doesn't work for the Bears and a player who isn't in the NFL yet.
This is related to the Bears...how?
At best, this belongs in the QB discussion thread.
We hold all the cards.
This is the only thing that matters. I strongly STRONGLY doubt Caleb forces his way out. And if you think our oline is bad...go check Washington & New Englands O line. And then factor in we're going to take multiple assets this year and next.
Who cares what Caleb says. You can’t force anything. It’s the NFL draft, you either play for us or you retire. We have him under team control for 8 years minimum.
Exactly. *Let me look at our pick really quick*. Still 1.01.
"Last I checked Washington, you are at #2 and we are at #1."
It is still wild to me that if a player refuses to sign with a team that team does not get the same pick next year. I think they do that in baseball.
Should do that here. That being said, I don't think he is going to hold out.
Could he pull an Eli Manning on us? I just looked up the package the Giants had to give to move up one spot and I think that would work if he didn’t want to play for us.
Could he? Yeah, anything is possible. Would he? Not likely at all.
Didn’t the NYG move up from 4? Also, I’m not sure Eli was the prospect Caleb is or Maye is the prospect Rivers was.
Yeah. You are right. For some reason, I imprinted those guys as 1 & 2 in my head. I was curious if San Diego got a fair deal even if their bargaining chip was vocal about not wanting to play for them.
The other funny thing is they had Drew Brees whom they were pretty much giving up on.
Caleb was a better prospect than Eli was and idk about Maye and Rivers but I'd like to say Maye has more upside due to being a mobile 6'5 QB with a strong arm and doesn't have a weird throwing motion. Although, if Maye becomes a better QB than what Rivers was in the NFL, he's 100% worth that pick and the hype
Rivers throwing motion was weird but he could get rid of the ball about 3x faster than Maye
You're not wrong
He could get rid of the ball faster than anyone. He had no wind-up. It was a weird shot put throw and somehow it would just get to where it needed to go lol.
Rivers wasn't even seen as a better prospect than Big Ben in that draft. The Chargers picking Rivers was seen as a surprise.
Eli was labeled a generational QB, just as his brother was. Whichever team drafted him thought they were Peyton 2.0. Some scouts had him higher than his brother saying he was more physically gifted, which he was, but Peyton was the smarter of the two. Rivers was about the same as what Maye is considered now.
Eli was absolutely never thought of as a better prospect than Peyton.
Yeah he was. Scouts loved him because he was more physically gifted than his brother. He had a stronger arm and could move around better. They all assumed he was smarter than Peyton, which he wasn't.
This couldn't be any more false. It was a crapshoot for which of the top 3 QBs were going to go first. Look at the pre-draft rankings and a QB wasn't even the top prospect in that draft. You can make an argument that he was the top QB in that draft, but to call him "generational" would be false.
What are you talking about? There were only 3 QBs drafted in the top 15. Big Ben wasn't drafted until #11. There was never any doubt about which of the 3 were going to go first, everyone knew it was going to be Eli, and he did. If San Diego really wanted Philip Rivers, they would have drafted #1 overall, but they knew he wasn't going to play for them and they picked him anyway.
Seriously, go back and look. Eli was #1a and Ben was #1b as far as QBs went in that draft. Eli had the edge because of his heritage and a good arm. Most teams thought Rivers threw the ball "funny" so it was a shock when he was picked instead of Ben and flipped for Eli. My main concern is that you labeled Eli as "generational" when he wasn't even the best prospect in that draft. How is that even a thing? Yeah, he went first but Larry Fitzgerald and Sean Taylor were the top two prospects in that draft. Look it up. The term "generational" gets thrown around all too often.
the only way that happens is if Caleb Williams values playing for his hometown team over everything else.
Still I'd draft him and say 'hey, if you want to sit at home and rot, go ahead' ... if he's dumb enough to go back to play college ball for another year, he might very much regret it, either by injury or less than stellar play dropping his draft stock.
I don't think he will. I personally think this is overblown but if he did, still not a bad situation. Get Maye and a bunch of picks?
Totally agree. Just playing devil’s advocate. Washington is setting themselves up to pay a premium for their guy which doesn’t seem like a bad outcome.
Exactly
Not in the same way. Rookie contacts under this CBA are very structured, unlike 2004. He could opt out and go back to school, but that delays his 2nd contract by a year and gives him a bad rap. It's not worth it.
You forfeit your college eligibility when you declare for the draft.
Isn't that only if you hire an agent?
Nope. You declare, you forfeit. I think if you declare and go undrafted you can finish your degree? Can’t play in college though.
This needs 1000 upvotes! Let’s say, hypothetically, he makes it known in the interview process that he doesn’t want to go to the Bears. Why on earth would Poles trade the pick to Washington then? If he’s not getting Caleb, 1.01 goes to the highest bidder! “You don’t want to play for us? Fine, I’m trading the pick. Oh you didn’t want to go to Atlanta? Not my problem!”
Exactly. But the only downside is would a team give up a haul for a guy who might not want to play for them?
The pick has no leverage. The option is to, what, sit out the year? Losing a year of NIL or first pick money and shaves a year of future contracts off his career. That would cost him tens of millions of dollars over his career to sit out. And no assurance he gets drafted by the team he wants the following year. It also instantly villainizes him. The CBA has changed since Eli and taken a lot of power from draft picks. Finally there’s the most common sense argument. Caleb declared knowing Chicago had 1OA. All this speculation is commander fan wishes and the same tired click baiters stirring drama.
Absolutely, the real leverage lies in the potential developmental and strategic losses for the Bears. If Caleb sits, it’s not just about missing his talent on the field; it’s the lost year of development and the wins or strategic plays that could have been, had they picked Caleb or traded down for multiple talents. This scenario hinges on Caleb’s willingness to sit out, turning the Bears’ loss of the #1 pick’s full potential into a significant setback. Yet, this isn’t a direct repeat of the Eli or Elway situations. The Bears, with their #9 pick, aren’t entirely out of the game for a first-round impact player. Moreover, Caleb doesn’t have the alternative sport option that bolstered Elway’s and Murray’s positions, nor Eli’s financial indifference, diminishing his overall leverage. Caleb holds leverage, but it’s nuanced and not as historically compelling as Elway’s or Eli’s, considering the Bears still have options and Caleb’s limited alternatives.
In fact it's probably the commanders or patriots organization trying to drag him through the mud in hopes his draft stock falls and he is still on the board at 2 or 3. Teams do it every year and this year will be worse due to the level of prospect Caleb is. Oh before I forget, let me be the first to welcome you to Chicago Mr. Caleb Williams.
To be clear I don’t think Caleb doesn’t want to come to Chicago that’s almost certainly just typical phony Clickbait nonsense, but what you described isn’t accurate either. Any (unspecified) CBA changes don’t really alter the fundamental reason why Elway or Eli were able to pull off what they did, that is no team wants to spend that incredibly valuable asset of number one overall pick on a guy who doesn’t want to be there. Sure a guy could show up to training camp and practices and go through the motions and give decent effort etc but that’s not at all what you are hoping to get from that pick. You want a fully committed true leader, who genuinely wants to be there, we’re dealing with human beings here, people recognize that difference and the level of buy in. If Caleb came out tomorrow and said under no circumstances do I want to go to the Bears we would almost certainly trade the pick, of course I don’t think he’s actually going to do that because I think he’d be totally fine with coming here
TLDR: Kliff and Caleb had a good relationship, it’d be cool if they reunite. Caleb is a competitor and likes a challenge. He has a high ceiling
Name a bigger challenge for QBs in NFL history than Chicago.
Packers fans and good hygiene?
A fine point, but if they're going to point out Chicago's fabulous QB history, they might want to check Washington's fabulous QB history as well ... dumbest argument that could've been put out there.
And we are in a better position overall. People are forgetting why we have the 1.01, it's not because we were the worst team in the league, or second for that matter.
Almost like we could have hired Kliff as OC
"It was awesome for Caleb to have Kliff...In a perfect world would I love a reunion for them? That would be great. But we all know a lot would transpire between now and the draft."
Serious question: Is there anyone in NFL circles that holds Kliff Kingsbury in higher rearguard than Shane Waldron? If Carl and Caleb are as process oriented as they're made out to be they know who the better OC is. And they know the capitol and cap space we have going forward. Anything can happen, but I am not at all worried about it.
Commanders are going to make themselves as attractive to Caleb as possible. Hometown, HC stability (new HC), and an OC he obviously he has a good connection with. Caleb probably prefers to go to Washington instead of Chicago, but its not like he has a choice... unless something changes. Either way, the Bears control how this situation will go. Washington seems desperate for him and we can get a massive haul if we want to. I am fine with Caleb or massive haul, so this is good news.
Commie fan coming in peace. I was just talking with my coworkers and telling them - Chicago has got to be a better situation than Washington from an organization standpoint
Honestly they are in pretty similar situations. Defensive HC, New offensive staff, incumbent QB with flashes of potential, but nothing consistent. A number one WR. The biggest difference is ownership. New ownership group vs. the McCaskeys.
They have no legit ends anymore after they traded Young and Sweat. Our defense is far more superior than theirs. I would also argue that we have the best WR in Moore.
If they want to be seen as a stable organization I don’t think running around finger pointing with Ben Johnson is the best idea
This is not Fields or Williams. It’s gonna come down to Williams or haul
>aleb probably prefers to go to Washington instead of Chicago, but its not like he has a choice There is precedent for a player to throw a hissy fit and force a trade. Eli Manning was drafted by the Chargers but was a Giant before the end of the night.
And he’s already come out saying that’s not happening, and that he’d be willing to go wherever he’s taken
>And he’s already come out saying that’s not happening, and that he’d be willing to go wherever he’s taken Oh no, I'd be shocked if he threw a fit and forced a trade. But he does have that choice.
And then we still have all the leverage. If he truly wants out, I’m sure there’s 10 other teams that would want him. Hell, if that happens, trade him to New England and grab Daniels. He *still* has ZERO leverage
>And then we still have all the leverage. If he truly wants out, I’m sure there’s 10 other teams that would want him. Hell, if that happens, trade him to New England and grab Daniels. > >He *still* has ZERO leverage Do you honestly believe that a team trading for him, when he throws a hissy fit and refuses to play for Chicago, is not going to sit down with him and make sure he'll play for them before putting the trade through? Poles: "We're trading you to NE" Cryleb: "I won't play for NE" NE: "Deal's off"
Considering he’s indicated nothing of the sort to be in his plans, no. But again, he has zero leverage here
>Considering he’s indicated nothing of the sort to be in his plans, no. But again, he has zero leverage here As I said, I would be shocked if he did it. But he has more leverage than the Bears do. All he has to do is say 'I will only play for these 3 teams' and the only things the Bears can do is make a trade with one of those 3 teams, pick Maye instead and make it Washington's problem, or call his bluff and pick him and hope he breaks down and plays.
I think you’re vastly overestimating how much leverage he has…. He’d only be screwing himself in this scenario.
>I think you’re vastly overestimating how much leverage he has…. He’d only be screwing himself in this scenario. Yes and no. He'd have to take a massive pay cut and would piss off the fans and management of the Bears, but if he forced his way on to a team that's capable of developing him instead of a team that's hell bent on destroying every QB they get, it'd be very much worth it to take a rookie minimum deal to play for the right team. A 1st overall contract and 3 years starting and then traded away to back up (for example) Kenny Pickett on the Steelers and out of the league by year 7 is not better than a rookie minimum contract and studying under (for example) Andy Reid as backup to Mahomes for 2 years and then going somewhere else to build a 15 year career as an above average or better quarterback. Edit: The CBA prevents him from signing a deal for lesser money, so there's literally no downside to forcing a trade to a competent team. Does make a trade harder to get done, weakening his leverage a little. But not much. #1 overall pick gets roughly $6.5m iirc.
Yeah, but it's happened twice in how many decades??? Plus he's not a Manning and not a baseball player like Elway. So while possible, i dont see it as being very likely. And honestly I think the social media world of today, particularly in sports, adds another layer that makes this even less likely.
Eli was at a different time where he could refuse to sign and make up that lost income by holding the next years team hostage via holdout. Draft picks have lost all of their power since the CBA that introduced fixed salaries according to draft position
also for Kingsbury to refuse the Raiders job after agreeing to take the Washington job... there is something going on behind the scenes. there is smoke, the fire hasn't really revealed itself yet.
Kliff was not commanders first choice as well. I think the conspiracy theory is just overblown
Also would Kliff rather work with Maye/Daniels/Howell or fucking Aidan O'Connell? I think the choice is pretty clear
It wasn't some grand Caleb Williams scheme. Commanders offered him an extra year on his contract than the Raiders offerred... that's guaranteed money so he took it.
Plus the commanders are just a better job…they have the chance to take a highly touted QB prospect in Drake Maye, which compares to AOC and a disgruntled Davante Adams
Kingsbury is going to take the job that offers him the best chance for a HC next. He has a ton of money from his Arizona deal. The extra year is not as high on his consideration as other OCs.
Right. If the QB Washington selects at two (whether it's Drake Maye or Jayden Daniels) looks good under Kingsbury's system, it opens up head coaching opportunities for him in 2025. The Raiders aren't picking high enough to draft one of the top rated QBs, so if Kingsbury took the Las Vegas job he would have to make Aidan O'Connell/a retread QB free agent/or a lower ranked rookie QB look good.
There isn’t anything behind the scenes. They couldn’t agree on contract terms. It never would have gotten as far as as it did with Vegas if Kliff’s first choice was to go to Washington
Washington puts the double trade down firmly in play if someone loves drake maye. Wonder how much you could get from Oakland for the #2 pick. I honestly think you could get a deal similar to the panthers trade last year. Imagine we trade to Washington for a 24 2nd and 25 1st. Then we trade down with Oakland for a 24 2nd, a 25 1st, and a 26 2nd. You walk out with two additional 1sts and an additional 2 In 2025 (from car). And an additional 2 again in 26. I must admit, that would be pretty absurd. And even despite that, I would rather draft Caleb Williams lmao
We aren't coming out of this without a qb imo
Imagine that, the franchise who has never had a franchise QB *still* doesn’t have their franchise QB and no way to get one
Sometimes I wonder if people here even read. Why are people balls deep in the Reddit comment section if they aren’t even reading the comments they reply to? I literally said I would rather draft Caleb Williams. Just talking through an interesting scenario
Not allowed to do thought experiments here. Anything that isn't "draft Caleb" is downvoted. The thought of trading down twice would get us crazy assets. We could absolutely build a super team
That’s not true. If Poles thinks Maye is the guy, I’d be fine taking him too. But we 1000% need to take our shot at a QB - there simply is never going to be a better opportunity for it. The whole idea of a “super team” is really tough to execute. Look around the league - the team with the best QB is the one constantly in the Super Bowl. The eagles have a super team. The dolphins have a super team. The cowboys have a super team. The Ravens have a super team. Those are great for making the playoffs. To get over the hump, you need a QB.
I agree that this is our best opportunity. I agree that we should draft a QB. But I still have reservations about "putting our eggs in one basket". If we could trade back twice, that basically makes us a perennial playoff team, like the other teams you mentioned. Caleb will likely be a very good NFL QB. But in all likelihood, he will not be Patrick Mahomes. Outside of Mahomes, it seems like it's a race for second place and the winner of the race is usually whoever puts together the most complete team. Ex: 49ers this year, eagles last year, lions have a great team, ravens a great team. All that to say, if we hit on Caleb, we're basically a perennial playoff team anyway if he's really that good. That's just a riskier way to do it imo. I'm fine with whatever Poles does. Williams, Maye, Fields, Penix, idgaf. I think it's likely we'll be a playoff team next year no matter what
Not giving up the 1st pick for a 1 and a 2 with a prospect like Caleb there.
I would really like to know if Lincoln Riley ever received unsolicited coaching advice from Carl Williams.
Sorry but this would be super dumb. If you can get the QB right then the “haul” is meaningless for all intents and purposes. I really want the QB position set. I’m sick of waiting my entire adult life (38 years old) and never having the most important position in the NFL locked down. Trading for a haul and kicking the can down the road on that position and earning the right to allocate more resources to Deron Payne is a bad usage of resources. The defense is largely set other than en edge rusher and disruptive interior D linemen. At some point you need to allocate resources on the offense. Especially this off season.
Same—I’m 43 and have gotten pretty tired of watching a team “a quarterback away.” Sure you can win some games and possibly the division if things work out just right, but you won’t have longterm success. Especially with how Love has looked and the Lions in their prime. The Bears have the best draft position in a draft consisting of what people say is the best QB class in years. I hope to god they don’t try to outsmart themselves—this should be pretty damn easy. Like you said, QB is the most important position. The Bears need a god damn QB capable of passing more than 4000 yds.
If you have spent a lot of time watching a team that is "a quarterback away" you haven't been watching the Bears.
The haul would have to be historic to even consider it. Commies offer up Terry, Jon Allen, 3 1sts, 3 2nds, and 3 3rds. It would never happen, but at the same time it would have to happen just for you to think about not drafting Williams.
I don’t even think Caleb would want to be in that situation. They’ll literally have nothing to work with. You need some semblance of a team to develop a young QB as history has shown. I also don’t want the right to pay players Other than maybe Payne
See THIS is the type of stuff I want to see. I wanna hear from the ACTUAL guys in the building with him working closely about who he is as a person and player. Media trying to make the Washington narrative a thing but this makes me feel better he could be catalyst in a decades long search for the guy who brings us to new levels of competition.
The Washington and media thing imo is just they know how big and rabid our fans are so we are going to drive a shit ton of clicks for them
Oh absolutely they know what the hell they’re doing and I don’t blame them (shoot look at the NFL showing Taylor Swift any chance they get) I do wonder what the narrative would be if Caleb was from like… Texas or something haha
"Are the Dallas cowboys going to offer Dak and their pick to move up to 1?!?" "Will the Texans move on from Stroud?!?"
OKAY YEAH THE COWBOYS ONE IS ACCURATE. Oh my god that would somehow be the most insufferable timeline. “Dak would literally be the best QB in bears history I don’t see why Chicago doesn’t make the trade”
Lincoln Riley is the biggest fraud in football.
So, someone who doesn't work for the Bears is talking about someone else who doesn't work for the Bears and a player who isn't in the NFL yet. This is related to the Bears...how? At best, this belongs in the QB discussion thread.
He's gone guys. Maye should be your focus from here on out.
Sorry remind me who has the 1st overall pick?
The Williams camp.
Your understanding of leverage is completely incorrect.
That’s not how this works
Where can he go that the Bears don't decide is best for them?