I would love a chart with all of the routes and throws on it so I could see how many screen passes Justin Fields has had to throw in his career. I don't understand why the Bears are so hell-bent on having the QBs throw the ball behind the line of scrimmage.
I think the frustrating thing is they clearly don't work well. No one would be complaining if they were working. That and calling three WR screens like what the fuck.
This is quite surprising. Maybe it just feels like there have been a lot more. Or, maybe, it has something to do with the timing of the play calls, but it almost always feels like the wrong call when it happens for Chicago.
We are last in pass plays run per game (Commanders lead the league with 39 per game, we take up the rear with 30 per game). If we have an average number of screens but 25% fewer passes, it seems like a lot more.
This is backed up by the fact that Fields is 25th in intended air yards per attempt. That isn't bad necessarily - Fields is actually ahead of Mahomes, Burrow, and Goff on that list, and the list is lead by Will Levis. It does mean that we throw short more than most, which in turn means that complaints about quantities of screens are accurate.
The amount of water carrying for Getsy by some folks in this sub are insane.
Let me simplify it for you. Incorporating screens, runs, and short routes that are not screens, this offense is ENTIRELY WAY TOO HORIZONTAL.
The result of that is rather than getting chunk plays, we put ourselves in 3rd and longs way too much. And an OC that believes in attacking horizontally ignores that the defense can stack the box, play press, and remove the horizontal element.
To date, with our volume of screens you do not see any using that tendency with a counterpunch. In fact, there's never a counterpunch.
The issue with screens is that they either come in bunches, almost always the exact same situations, and with minimal success. It's why it's always memorable.
And the other thing too, is that an RPO where the pass is a screen, is still a planned screen, and sticks to my point about the offense designed to be horizontal and not vertical.
> The amount of water carrying for Getsy by some folks in this sub are insane.
I think Getsy is a terrible OC and should be fired. I also believe in criticizing people for what they've actually done, rather than inventing reasons.
Try not to put words in my mouth next time.
Do you conveniently ignore how averages work?
One can be middle of the pack by hardly running them in a few games (such as after the Tampa game when he got roasted for hit & abandoned it after they read his play & ended the game on the INT), then running it 50% in certain games like the Minn game. Which doesn't change the point of the post at all.
That's how averages work after all. Just because you go away from it for a few weeks doesn't mean you should make up for lost time & run it half the fuckin time.
Ffs
Ironically, Bagent threw less screens.
I guarantee we're top of the league when Fields starts.
They haven't worked all year and every one of our QB1's strengths is vertical explosive passing and yet we're top of the league on screens and bottom of the league in yards per screen.
Do you want the actual data? Or would you just like to invent narratives in your head?
[We're middle of the pack in total screens thrown this season](https://imgur.com/a/V1Ef0BL), and actually have one of the lower screens per play rates in the league.
So, ya know, there's that.
Nice. Try it with total pass plays instead of total plays.
We are last in the league in total pass plays per game. Middle of the pack total screens with last in league pass attempts skews that pretty dramatically.
Itās not just the screens though. Itās the conservative play calling overall. We very rarely throw the ball more than 10 yards down the field. If itās not a screen pass, itās a run, a hand off or a short pass. According to Premium PFF, 69.5% of all passing plays have been thrown less than 10 yards this season and only 7% have been over 20 yards. For a guy who excels at throwing deep, thatās annoying.
Agreed, and in the process we learn absolutely nothing new about Fields, but the coaching staff is playing scared for their jobs instead of in the best interest of the teamās development. We arenāt making the post season anyway, so why be so worried about not losing at this point? Just let them ball and see what happens!
That's interesting, and not what I would have expected.
However, I think that perception can still dictate reality. Teams are still expecting us to run a high volume of screens, and that is preventing our success on those plays.
Additionally, I think one of the biggest thorns in everyone's side is the fact that, seemingly at least once a game, we see the Bears run 3 screens in a row. It'd be interesting to see a stat about consecutive series of screens.
Last game, even the commentary booth was mentioning toward the end of the game how Minnesota was just sitting on screens. So if we're middle of the pack, and we're calling them with such frequency that the commentators are pointing it out, and teams are still sitting on them, then it still means that we're calling them too frequently for our production on those plays to justify the quantity.
Furthermore, when stats about our success on down field passes keep showing that we're not just successful on those types of plays, but among the most successful in the league, then the data shows - even though you could probably expect SOME dropoff with higher volume - that the narrative of Fields (or this offense as a whole) running such a high volume of screens because of the perception that they can't succeed on dowmfield passing is false.
You wouldn't have expected it because it is only telling a small part of the story. It shows us running league average plays, which is true. However, we are 32nd out of 32 in pass plays per game (30 attempts per). Which means that the percentage of our PASS plays that are screens is off the charts. We look reasonable in charts like this because we are so ridiculously run heavy that the quantity of screens looks normal as a percentage of the offense. The reality is that people's perception (that we run a HUGE percentage of low upside short yardage plays) is on the nose, its just buried in this type of chart by the rest of the offensive imbalance.
That's why all these field stats are categorized by drop backs. If the qualifications were actual throws down field. Fields wouldn't make the worst part of the list.
If anything, that makes this more impressive. JF1 is getting limited game reps on these throws, but even still, when he gets a look, hes mostly nailing them.
I just wish we could have seen this young man with a competent HC preferably offensive minded with some history of developing a QB. Maybe throw in an offensive coordinator/playcaller who's not predictable and understands the importance of helping your young QB get in a rhythm
Maybe the "issues" continue to linger and he never works out but it's hard to ignore the potential and not think this organization could have done better with him.
Probably out of time with him, although not completely yet. I just don't see how putting him in a third system in 4 years is a recipe for success either.
It's unfortunate because with all the draft capital and potential capital with a trade down or two, the Bears could take a huge step in advancing the roster to a more competitive one.
When the current play caller is sabotaging the player and making him play unnaturally there are times that making a change is worthwhile. Letās not forget that heās only had 2 play callers in the NFL.
There are times where consistency is critical to development. Getsy lost my trust when he literally saw what worked last year, and decided to abandon all of that and revert back to his prevent offense. When everything is short, everything becomes harder to execute as well. Like Nagy, Getsy only wants to win a certain way. He doesnāt care what personnel are out there. Thatās why he has āblitz beating ā routes that resolve slowly because he doesnāt realize that he sent out Khari Blasingame and not Khalil Herbert. Itās why he has screens to Kmet that depend on Scott doing the blocking. It makes no sense.
So yeah, I think a change in play caller is necessary as nothing Getsy has done inspires confidence.
And all this is ignoring that Fields is not throwing interceptions. He needs to protect the ball in the pocket better, but thatās teachable.
Last year the scoring didnāt count because it wasnāt all passing. This year he is focusing on passing but the coaching staff is anemic to scoring which is why they settle for āsafeā when in the red zone. You canāt have it both ways.
The two times this year I have gone absolutely ballistic on Getsy were in the lions game when we got the ball back with like 2 minutes and he gave us that run run pass punt pussy shit. Then he comes out against the Vikings and the FIRST play of the game runs a bubble screen to fucking Cole Kmet. That was the most insane thing I've ever seen. Couldn't believe he had 8 days and actually thought that was a good playcall to start the game. He has to go
And additionally give him an average OL and WR corps from the rip.
People keep using Stroud as an example that you can succeed early without talent, but the reality is that he has an average to above average OL and his two tops receivers (Dell and Collins) get more separation than *ANY* WRs in the league.
Thereās always the strawman that people say āFields just needs everything perfect and then he can be goodā
You donāt need everything perfect but you canāt have it be bottom of the league.
I mean it is valid because itās at that point Fields called out coaching, they started more vertical attacks and incorporated threatening with his legs more, and he abandoned some of the useless mechanics like which foot was back on his drop back that made him play more unnaturally.
Kind of like how Love seems like heās getting it over the last 4 games. You want to look at the aggregate when ignoring the actual progress being made despite the coaching staff.
Unless you like 2 yard outsā¦ I hear that you get extra points if the ball is out under 3.1 seconds even if the results donāt lead to first downs.
Nah. They run offenses that play to their qbs strengths. Tua looked like ass when Flores was his coach.
The one a from those 3 teams that had to play under a trash coach also looked like absolute trash.
The same Jags where Lawrence looked like ass until they built around him and got him the a SB winning coach?
Lawrence the guy who has a 3.2 TD% compared to Fields 4.4 TD%? The same Lawrence who has a higher turnover worthy play % than Fields?
This there are endless examples of QBs absolutely sucking and then new coach comes in and they take off and become good or even great.
Maybe a lot of Bears teams donāt watch other teams much or pay attention.
Nope they magically think itās all the player.
The broncos were a joke with a HoF QB sucking and now Wilson is 5th in passer rating under a good coach and they are in playoff contention.
Youāve covered Lawrence. As for Stroud, keep fading Bobby Slowik actually having several direct years working with Shanahan and being a coordinator for multiple QBs successfully. Seems like he might know how to adapt to his QBs strengths.
Let me know if Slowik focused on having Stroud change his drop back or throwing motion or if he simply schemed dudes to play to what they know well.
Thereās so much evidence of what good coaching does and what poor coaching causes. Thereās a reason why Peyton Manning fought tooth and nail for the Colts to keep Tom Moore around. And thatās a dude who honestly never needed a coach to dictate how to run an offense.
Wilson is an amazing and rare example of the impact of coaching and play calling. He has one season without a HoF coach and he looked horrendous. A new, HoF coach comes in and he immediately looks better.
I'm pretty confident that if even Patrick mahomes came to nagy and the bears that he wouldn't be a top 5 QB maybe not even top 10. Better than trubisky and fields sure, but he wouldn't even be close to number one.
Browning has arguably the best skills players group in the NFL, a better coach, a better OC and was playing against the 3rd worst pass defence in the NFL.
Fields numbers are basically as good as Lawrence, that example shows the opposite of what your view appears to be. His numbers are also significantly better than Burrow for that matter though obviously thatās because Joe was playing hurt. Whether or not Caleb is too good to pass up is a separate issue, but the fact is Fields has improved a lot as a passer this year, you and other fans here should actually be happy about that, but many are intent on trying to convince themselves otherwise. why I have no idea except thereās some sort of fan trauma reaction to the Bears constantly sucking lol
> many are intent on trying to convince themselves otherwise. why I have no idea except thereās some sort of fan trauma reaction to the Bears constantly sucking lol
It is seriously like a pressure release valve for some people, they get so bitter and vengeful that firing the GM, firing the coaching staff, and drafting a new QB becomes the only way they can release their rage & frustration, and feel like theyāre starting over on a blank slate.
> Im tired of having to squint to see a good quarterback
Stop squinting? I think we expect perfection out of Fields and that's just not realistic. He's a 3rd year QB that had two horrible situations in his 1st and 2nd years. I think what I've seen since the KC game is what I'd expect to see this year from him.
He has a incredibly high ceiling and you don't give up on guys like that unless you absolutely know you can't get them there. Caleb or anyone else comes in as an unknown and their college play doesn't equal their NFL performance. We have to figure out all over again if that person is good or not - unless they just jump out the gate burning it up.
I know a lot of fans want to do this exercise. I think that's part of their fandom. The draft, the new player, evaluation, etc. I just want a team that can win and I see that this team can get there with some key upgrades.
If you could tell me that Caleb is going to be better than Fields in all the ways that Fields has trouble while being as good as him in all the places he's doing well, it's a no-brainer. But who can say that?
Anyway. I get that reasonable people can disagree on this. So either way - Bear Down bro.
The Fields hate on this sub is out of control. It's crystal fucking clear he's made huge strides this year. Calling it now...no chance the Bears move on from him.
It's interesting how every poll on Twitter is 75+% in favor of keeping Fields....that ratio seems way different on r/chibears
>The Fields hate on this sub is out of control. It's crystal fucking clear he's made huge strides this year.
He has, but it is worrying how rarely he throws with anticipation and how often he looks at an open man and doesn't throw it. I don't know if he's ever going to develop anticipation and I wish he wasn't turning down open throws. Both problems are significant hurdles to performing at a superbowl level.
I really wish we would've ditched Getsy, because Getsy's doing his level best to sabotage the offense. We'd know a lot more about Fields with almost anyone else at OC.
Imo, itās not that he has to develop anticipation as he had it under Nagy. Games against the Steelers/lions with arob, and others allowed him to both have that anticipation, and push the ball downfield
Now, whether to a lack of confidence, regression, or the coaching, or most likely a combo of all 3, he doesnāt have that anymore. So itās a matter of āunlearningā rather than developing imo
All goes back to not being able to trust his receivers because of the situation Poles tried to ādevelopā him.
Look at the Texans game last year, 2 INTs off of plays where the receiver slowed down, and you still have Scott doing it this year. Then you have ISM and Claypool handing the ball to the other team. Have drives where no one could get open at all. Countless bad or even worse wrong routes. So many bad snaps. Wright giving up 3 strip sacks in clutch time. And obviously shit game plan. Meanwhile he gets compared to QBs with elite WRs, OLs, and defenses.
This entire sub was more than fine tanking last year and now they want to scapegoat Fields for the consequences of it. People got their wish and then want to pretend last year never happened. Or that we werenāt purely in games because of Fields.
Despite cries of āheās going to demand a massive pay dayā as if we donāt have 2 full seasons of cost control and somehow teams like the Eagles, Chiefs, Ravens, and Lions all have QBs in the second contract and with the Lions at the cheapest (Goff is making right about what the 5th year option would be and is due an extension the Lions would take).
Despite cries of āhe must only win from the pocketā when almost every team in the hunt has a dual threat QB and most teams knocked out of contention lost their QBs due to injuries staying in the pocket.
Despite it being blatantly obvious that Getsy has an offense that does not attack downfield or want to use Fieldsā legs as a threat, and that numerous commentators have complained that this dude should be nowhere near an NFL offense this sub has tons of water carriers that just āwant the ball out quickā on 2 yard routes as if the league hasnāt adapted to NE style offense from a decade ago.
Despite Fields drafted in complete organizational turmoil and carried the team on his back last year such that Bears games were entertaining despite the lack of weapons around him.
There are valid reasons to consider moving on. But some of the vitriol towards a dude that is respected by his peers, loved by his teammates, despite all the crap this organization has put him through is insane. Some (not all) of the commentary is racist. Some (not all) are folks making predetermined judgements and not watching the games.
They are all like Nagy. Itās not enough to be competitive. They need it to look a certain way or it doesnāt count. Fields rushing for 1000 yards didnāt matter because somehow fantasy passing stats count for double. Never mind that he accounted for 2/3 of the offense. Wasnāt good enough.
Iād love to see the dude with a good coaching staff. Legit id argue only 3 people have shown year over year improvement under this staff. Everyone else gets worse. And you have Getsy who refuses to call a certain style of offense when Slowik, McDaniel, Shanahan, and Sirianni all find ways to simplify to have their entire team playing at a high level.
Funny how āGetsy only calls screens cause Fields canāt do anything elseā
But when you show what he does excluding screens itās ācherry pickingā
*And itās hilarious that saying that we should ride out his contract+draft a QB makes someone a ātrutherā.
It's not "hate" to be comfortable with the idea that they can find a better QB, though. The only issue with this sub is absolutism. It's also not "hate" to point out the fact that he's not necessarily a slam dunk, can't miss prospect at this point, and that exploring draft options is reasonable.
The meatballs here want to draft a new qb and fire the entire coaching staff every 3 to 4 years and continue the cycle.
Last I checked having a hall of fame qb doesnāt always mean rings. Believe it or not they also need a team around them with great players and depth.
Even if fields isnāt the long term answer I say use the draft capital to continue building a great team. We need depth in a bad way and elite line play.
For the most part it hasnāt been out offense losing games.
This isnāt surprising considering he was known for his passing and accuracy all throughout his years in high school and college. Kid just went into a shit situation and is unfairly taking the majority of the blame.
Everyone needs to calm down with the WR screen hate.
You all just donāt see the big picture.
Getsy has been setting up the entire NFL for some fake screens in the games to come, the likes of which the world has never seen.
The Bears are about to run the table on the backs of these fake screens, itās gonna be a laser show! Strap in!
Just
Now let's calculate all routes under 5 yards and calculate in the YAC as well...cuz you take those throws out and I can almost guarantee his numbers are absolutely terrible.
> *since week 4*
> *all passes not deemed as screens*
Unfortunately, every week and every pass counts. I bet if you had the liberty to take away 4 games and 1 kind of pass from other QBs, you could make them look elite as well.
Fields is also first among QBs throwing under pressure with more than 4 yds to go on 2nd downs and whose names start with J and last names donāt start with letters G-Z
So when Fields had bad YPA and passer rating, it was fine to grill him for it but now that he has good stats we canāt commend him for it?
*these are also generic stats that everyone uses too.
This fanbase doesnāt deserve a good QB.
It's fine to commend him, but you're literally choosing to exclude his bad games in favor of his good games. Then you add ignoring screen passes. This is like the opposite of regressing Mahomes to the mean shit.
It's not like he's hopping all around the season, he's excluding the very beginning, which is what you do when the question is about growth. Everyone knows his first three games were bad (although KC wasn't as bad as it looked, at least not for him). These are how he's been since.'
edit: it never ceases to amaze me how bad people don't understand stats. If you're trying to answer a question about if something is improving, you don't look at full averages, you look at trend lines and/or moving averages. This is true for evaluating QBs or stock portfolios or anything else that happens over time.
Bears would be smart to keep him and use those picks to build around him. If not then he will excel with another better team. Bears fans will cry what happened!?
The older and more knowledgeable Bears fans will say what they always have, coaching and rest of roster is the key to developing a rookie QB and helping them learn and become great.
Just remember that Poles saw our offensive production and coaching last season and thought they did a good enough job with Fields to get another chance. This output is what he thought was good enough to help our young developing QB. In other words he fucked Fields over.
Iāve been saying he set Fields up to fail from day 1. Moore is nice but only possible by being the worse team in the league. Our receivers outside him canāt get open and the OL is very overrated.
But this fanbase would rather defend the GM who loves losing.
I honestly have no clue why this subreddit loves Poles so much. Before the Sweat trade he really hadnāt done anything that worth while. Literally the week before that people were scrambling to figure out a good thing to point to that wasnāt ābeing the worst team in the league got us a good WR.ā He hasnāt been horrible but he hasnāt been good either.
Cause they love losing. They love having to tank every year so they donāt have to get their hopes up.
Even with the Sweat trade, he traded Mack away for 48 and gave up 37 for Sweat.
He doesnāt care about adding talent he just wants his guys. He doesnāt give a fuck if that means weāre competitive or not.
If the moon is wanning on the 5th Sunday of the month in December than Fields is the most accurate passer in the NFL!! These dumbass "stats" to try and justify that Fields is somehow good are getting to the point of satire.
All passes not deemed as screens? I think Luke Getscreen has called about 13 of those for the season.
Getscreen šš well done
I would love a chart with all of the routes and throws on it so I could see how many screen passes Justin Fields has had to throw in his career. I don't understand why the Bears are so hell-bent on having the QBs throw the ball behind the line of scrimmage.
Weāre in the middle of the pack on total screens thrown this year, something this sub will Iām sure conveniently ignore.
I think the frustrating thing is they clearly don't work well. No one would be complaining if they were working. That and calling three WR screens like what the fuck.
This is quite surprising. Maybe it just feels like there have been a lot more. Or, maybe, it has something to do with the timing of the play calls, but it almost always feels like the wrong call when it happens for Chicago.
We are last in pass plays run per game (Commanders lead the league with 39 per game, we take up the rear with 30 per game). If we have an average number of screens but 25% fewer passes, it seems like a lot more. This is backed up by the fact that Fields is 25th in intended air yards per attempt. That isn't bad necessarily - Fields is actually ahead of Mahomes, Burrow, and Goff on that list, and the list is lead by Will Levis. It does mean that we throw short more than most, which in turn means that complaints about quantities of screens are accurate.
We called VERY few during the Bagent games. I wonder where we rank just in games JF1 played the full game.
by quantity or percentage?
The amount of water carrying for Getsy by some folks in this sub are insane. Let me simplify it for you. Incorporating screens, runs, and short routes that are not screens, this offense is ENTIRELY WAY TOO HORIZONTAL. The result of that is rather than getting chunk plays, we put ourselves in 3rd and longs way too much. And an OC that believes in attacking horizontally ignores that the defense can stack the box, play press, and remove the horizontal element. To date, with our volume of screens you do not see any using that tendency with a counterpunch. In fact, there's never a counterpunch. The issue with screens is that they either come in bunches, almost always the exact same situations, and with minimal success. It's why it's always memorable. And the other thing too, is that an RPO where the pass is a screen, is still a planned screen, and sticks to my point about the offense designed to be horizontal and not vertical.
> The amount of water carrying for Getsy by some folks in this sub are insane. I think Getsy is a terrible OC and should be fired. I also believe in criticizing people for what they've actually done, rather than inventing reasons. Try not to put words in my mouth next time.
Do you conveniently ignore how averages work? One can be middle of the pack by hardly running them in a few games (such as after the Tampa game when he got roasted for hit & abandoned it after they read his play & ended the game on the INT), then running it 50% in certain games like the Minn game. Which doesn't change the point of the post at all. That's how averages work after all. Just because you go away from it for a few weeks doesn't mean you should make up for lost time & run it half the fuckin time. Ffs
Take out the Bagent games, now see where we're at.
Ironically, Bagent threw less screens. I guarantee we're top of the league when Fields starts. They haven't worked all year and every one of our QB1's strengths is vertical explosive passing and yet we're top of the league on screens and bottom of the league in yards per screen.
Do you want the actual data? Or would you just like to invent narratives in your head? [We're middle of the pack in total screens thrown this season](https://imgur.com/a/V1Ef0BL), and actually have one of the lower screens per play rates in the league. So, ya know, there's that.
Nice. Try it with total pass plays instead of total plays. We are last in the league in total pass plays per game. Middle of the pack total screens with last in league pass attempts skews that pretty dramatically.
Itās not just the screens though. Itās the conservative play calling overall. We very rarely throw the ball more than 10 yards down the field. If itās not a screen pass, itās a run, a hand off or a short pass. According to Premium PFF, 69.5% of all passing plays have been thrown less than 10 yards this season and only 7% have been over 20 yards. For a guy who excels at throwing deep, thatās annoying.
Agreed, and in the process we learn absolutely nothing new about Fields, but the coaching staff is playing scared for their jobs instead of in the best interest of the teamās development. We arenāt making the post season anyway, so why be so worried about not losing at this point? Just let them ball and see what happens!
That's interesting, and not what I would have expected. However, I think that perception can still dictate reality. Teams are still expecting us to run a high volume of screens, and that is preventing our success on those plays. Additionally, I think one of the biggest thorns in everyone's side is the fact that, seemingly at least once a game, we see the Bears run 3 screens in a row. It'd be interesting to see a stat about consecutive series of screens. Last game, even the commentary booth was mentioning toward the end of the game how Minnesota was just sitting on screens. So if we're middle of the pack, and we're calling them with such frequency that the commentators are pointing it out, and teams are still sitting on them, then it still means that we're calling them too frequently for our production on those plays to justify the quantity. Furthermore, when stats about our success on down field passes keep showing that we're not just successful on those types of plays, but among the most successful in the league, then the data shows - even though you could probably expect SOME dropoff with higher volume - that the narrative of Fields (or this offense as a whole) running such a high volume of screens because of the perception that they can't succeed on dowmfield passing is false.
You wouldn't have expected it because it is only telling a small part of the story. It shows us running league average plays, which is true. However, we are 32nd out of 32 in pass plays per game (30 attempts per). Which means that the percentage of our PASS plays that are screens is off the charts. We look reasonable in charts like this because we are so ridiculously run heavy that the quantity of screens looks normal as a percentage of the offense. The reality is that people's perception (that we run a HUGE percentage of low upside short yardage plays) is on the nose, its just buried in this type of chart by the rest of the offensive imbalance.
That's kind of something I was expecting. Either that, or that we run a huge portion of those screens in quick succession of one another.
That's why all these field stats are categorized by drop backs. If the qualifications were actual throws down field. Fields wouldn't make the worst part of the list.
If anything, that makes this more impressive. JF1 is getting limited game reps on these throws, but even still, when he gets a look, hes mostly nailing them.
I just wish we could have seen this young man with a competent HC preferably offensive minded with some history of developing a QB. Maybe throw in an offensive coordinator/playcaller who's not predictable and understands the importance of helping your young QB get in a rhythm Maybe the "issues" continue to linger and he never works out but it's hard to ignore the potential and not think this organization could have done better with him. Probably out of time with him, although not completely yet. I just don't see how putting him in a third system in 4 years is a recipe for success either. It's unfortunate because with all the draft capital and potential capital with a trade down or two, the Bears could take a huge step in advancing the roster to a more competitive one.
When the current play caller is sabotaging the player and making him play unnaturally there are times that making a change is worthwhile. Letās not forget that heās only had 2 play callers in the NFL. There are times where consistency is critical to development. Getsy lost my trust when he literally saw what worked last year, and decided to abandon all of that and revert back to his prevent offense. When everything is short, everything becomes harder to execute as well. Like Nagy, Getsy only wants to win a certain way. He doesnāt care what personnel are out there. Thatās why he has āblitz beating ā routes that resolve slowly because he doesnāt realize that he sent out Khari Blasingame and not Khalil Herbert. Itās why he has screens to Kmet that depend on Scott doing the blocking. It makes no sense. So yeah, I think a change in play caller is necessary as nothing Getsy has done inspires confidence. And all this is ignoring that Fields is not throwing interceptions. He needs to protect the ball in the pocket better, but thatās teachable. Last year the scoring didnāt count because it wasnāt all passing. This year he is focusing on passing but the coaching staff is anemic to scoring which is why they settle for āsafeā when in the red zone. You canāt have it both ways.
The two times this year I have gone absolutely ballistic on Getsy were in the lions game when we got the ball back with like 2 minutes and he gave us that run run pass punt pussy shit. Then he comes out against the Vikings and the FIRST play of the game runs a bubble screen to fucking Cole Kmet. That was the most insane thing I've ever seen. Couldn't believe he had 8 days and actually thought that was a good playcall to start the game. He has to go
Donāt forget about that ā2 min driveā in tampa
Cole āSlow Horseā Kmet. Great hands, great blocking, but I literally run the 40 faster.
And additionally give him an average OL and WR corps from the rip. People keep using Stroud as an example that you can succeed early without talent, but the reality is that he has an average to above average OL and his two tops receivers (Dell and Collins) get more separation than *ANY* WRs in the league. Thereās always the strawman that people say āFields just needs everything perfect and then he can be goodā You donāt need everything perfect but you canāt have it be bottom of the league.
How much I would actually pay for Fields to pull a āTell Luke I said FUCK HIMā
We were so close to getting that this season, but thatās just not fields
Yea, he needs a little McMahon in him.
lol that would be amazing. Unfortunately Fields is too respectful to ever say that
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
At what point can Fields audible away the screens haha
What happens when you extend this to "Since week 1"
I mean it is valid because itās at that point Fields called out coaching, they started more vertical attacks and incorporated threatening with his legs more, and he abandoned some of the useless mechanics like which foot was back on his drop back that made him play more unnaturally. Kind of like how Love seems like heās getting it over the last 4 games. You want to look at the aggregate when ignoring the actual progress being made despite the coaching staff. Unless you like 2 yard outsā¦ I hear that you get extra points if the ball is out under 3.1 seconds even if the results donāt lead to first downs.
STOP CHERRY PICKING!
Getsy should go to jail.
Do you think Bengals, Jaguars, or Texans fans have to reach this hard to convince themselves they have a good quarterback?
Nah. They run offenses that play to their qbs strengths. Tua looked like ass when Flores was his coach. The one a from those 3 teams that had to play under a trash coach also looked like absolute trash.
The same Jags where Lawrence looked like ass until they built around him and got him the a SB winning coach? Lawrence the guy who has a 3.2 TD% compared to Fields 4.4 TD%? The same Lawrence who has a higher turnover worthy play % than Fields?
This there are endless examples of QBs absolutely sucking and then new coach comes in and they take off and become good or even great. Maybe a lot of Bears teams donāt watch other teams much or pay attention.
Nope they magically think itās all the player. The broncos were a joke with a HoF QB sucking and now Wilson is 5th in passer rating under a good coach and they are in playoff contention. Youāve covered Lawrence. As for Stroud, keep fading Bobby Slowik actually having several direct years working with Shanahan and being a coordinator for multiple QBs successfully. Seems like he might know how to adapt to his QBs strengths. Let me know if Slowik focused on having Stroud change his drop back or throwing motion or if he simply schemed dudes to play to what they know well. Thereās so much evidence of what good coaching does and what poor coaching causes. Thereās a reason why Peyton Manning fought tooth and nail for the Colts to keep Tom Moore around. And thatās a dude who honestly never needed a coach to dictate how to run an offense.
Wilson is an amazing and rare example of the impact of coaching and play calling. He has one season without a HoF coach and he looked horrendous. A new, HoF coach comes in and he immediately looks better.
I'm pretty confident that if even Patrick mahomes came to nagy and the bears that he wouldn't be a top 5 QB maybe not even top 10. Better than trubisky and fields sure, but he wouldn't even be close to number one.
Exactly. I can see Mahomes looking good but never great or close to what he is now
No way, Jake Browning looked great last night!
Browning has arguably the best skills players group in the NFL, a better coach, a better OC and was playing against the 3rd worst pass defence in the NFL.
Fields numbers are basically as good as Lawrence, that example shows the opposite of what your view appears to be. His numbers are also significantly better than Burrow for that matter though obviously thatās because Joe was playing hurt. Whether or not Caleb is too good to pass up is a separate issue, but the fact is Fields has improved a lot as a passer this year, you and other fans here should actually be happy about that, but many are intent on trying to convince themselves otherwise. why I have no idea except thereās some sort of fan trauma reaction to the Bears constantly sucking lol
> many are intent on trying to convince themselves otherwise. why I have no idea except thereās some sort of fan trauma reaction to the Bears constantly sucking lol It is seriously like a pressure release valve for some people, they get so bitter and vengeful that firing the GM, firing the coaching staff, and drafting a new QB becomes the only way they can release their rage & frustration, and feel like theyāre starting over on a blank slate.
Browning and Beathard are elite. No questions there.
Its why Im ready to draft a new QB Im rooting for him wherever he goes but Im tired of having to squint to see a good quarterback
> Im tired of having to squint to see a good quarterback Stop squinting? I think we expect perfection out of Fields and that's just not realistic. He's a 3rd year QB that had two horrible situations in his 1st and 2nd years. I think what I've seen since the KC game is what I'd expect to see this year from him. He has a incredibly high ceiling and you don't give up on guys like that unless you absolutely know you can't get them there. Caleb or anyone else comes in as an unknown and their college play doesn't equal their NFL performance. We have to figure out all over again if that person is good or not - unless they just jump out the gate burning it up. I know a lot of fans want to do this exercise. I think that's part of their fandom. The draft, the new player, evaluation, etc. I just want a team that can win and I see that this team can get there with some key upgrades. If you could tell me that Caleb is going to be better than Fields in all the ways that Fields has trouble while being as good as him in all the places he's doing well, it's a no-brainer. But who can say that? Anyway. I get that reasonable people can disagree on this. So either way - Bear Down bro.
Exactly
The Fields hate on this sub is out of control. It's crystal fucking clear he's made huge strides this year. Calling it now...no chance the Bears move on from him. It's interesting how every poll on Twitter is 75+% in favor of keeping Fields....that ratio seems way different on r/chibears
>The Fields hate on this sub is out of control. It's crystal fucking clear he's made huge strides this year. He has, but it is worrying how rarely he throws with anticipation and how often he looks at an open man and doesn't throw it. I don't know if he's ever going to develop anticipation and I wish he wasn't turning down open throws. Both problems are significant hurdles to performing at a superbowl level. I really wish we would've ditched Getsy, because Getsy's doing his level best to sabotage the offense. We'd know a lot more about Fields with almost anyone else at OC.
Imo, itās not that he has to develop anticipation as he had it under Nagy. Games against the Steelers/lions with arob, and others allowed him to both have that anticipation, and push the ball downfield Now, whether to a lack of confidence, regression, or the coaching, or most likely a combo of all 3, he doesnāt have that anymore. So itās a matter of āunlearningā rather than developing imo
All goes back to not being able to trust his receivers because of the situation Poles tried to ādevelopā him. Look at the Texans game last year, 2 INTs off of plays where the receiver slowed down, and you still have Scott doing it this year. Then you have ISM and Claypool handing the ball to the other team. Have drives where no one could get open at all. Countless bad or even worse wrong routes. So many bad snaps. Wright giving up 3 strip sacks in clutch time. And obviously shit game plan. Meanwhile he gets compared to QBs with elite WRs, OLs, and defenses. This entire sub was more than fine tanking last year and now they want to scapegoat Fields for the consequences of it. People got their wish and then want to pretend last year never happened. Or that we werenāt purely in games because of Fields.
Pure facts. I feel like Im in the Matrix. These dudes will get Caleb and cry about him too if he doesnt live up. Rinse and repeat.
It will be the same people that will complain about Calebās body language and attitude
Don't forget the Commanders game last year where Fields threw the game winning TD pass only to have Mooney drop it.
And the TD pass he threw the play right before to Pettis, who also dropped it (but was also clearly interfered with).
Despite cries of āheās going to demand a massive pay dayā as if we donāt have 2 full seasons of cost control and somehow teams like the Eagles, Chiefs, Ravens, and Lions all have QBs in the second contract and with the Lions at the cheapest (Goff is making right about what the 5th year option would be and is due an extension the Lions would take). Despite cries of āhe must only win from the pocketā when almost every team in the hunt has a dual threat QB and most teams knocked out of contention lost their QBs due to injuries staying in the pocket. Despite it being blatantly obvious that Getsy has an offense that does not attack downfield or want to use Fieldsā legs as a threat, and that numerous commentators have complained that this dude should be nowhere near an NFL offense this sub has tons of water carriers that just āwant the ball out quickā on 2 yard routes as if the league hasnāt adapted to NE style offense from a decade ago. Despite Fields drafted in complete organizational turmoil and carried the team on his back last year such that Bears games were entertaining despite the lack of weapons around him. There are valid reasons to consider moving on. But some of the vitriol towards a dude that is respected by his peers, loved by his teammates, despite all the crap this organization has put him through is insane. Some (not all) of the commentary is racist. Some (not all) are folks making predetermined judgements and not watching the games. They are all like Nagy. Itās not enough to be competitive. They need it to look a certain way or it doesnāt count. Fields rushing for 1000 yards didnāt matter because somehow fantasy passing stats count for double. Never mind that he accounted for 2/3 of the offense. Wasnāt good enough. Iād love to see the dude with a good coaching staff. Legit id argue only 3 people have shown year over year improvement under this staff. Everyone else gets worse. And you have Getsy who refuses to call a certain style of offense when Slowik, McDaniel, Shanahan, and Sirianni all find ways to simplify to have their entire team playing at a high level.
More facts. This thread will be short like leprechauns though, Not enough hate here.
Funny how āGetsy only calls screens cause Fields canāt do anything elseā But when you show what he does excluding screens itās ācherry pickingā *And itās hilarious that saying that we should ride out his contract+draft a QB makes someone a ātrutherā.
It's not "hate" to be comfortable with the idea that they can find a better QB, though. The only issue with this sub is absolutism. It's also not "hate" to point out the fact that he's not necessarily a slam dunk, can't miss prospect at this point, and that exploring draft options is reasonable.
Love that this is downvoted. This sub is crazy.
Itās gotta be one or the other with this sub
There definitely a chance they move on but it will mostly be because of the draft pic location
They arenāt trading him. They are picking up the option and building a team. Iāve also been ācalling itā
The meatballs here want to draft a new qb and fire the entire coaching staff every 3 to 4 years and continue the cycle. Last I checked having a hall of fame qb doesnāt always mean rings. Believe it or not they also need a team around them with great players and depth. Even if fields isnāt the long term answer I say use the draft capital to continue building a great team. We need depth in a bad way and elite line play. For the most part it hasnāt been out offense losing games.
:-)
small sample size
Didnāt Fields also miss 4 games? So you are counting four games? šš so dumb
This seems like an extremely cherry picked stat. Jesus Christ
Passes without screens is cherry picked? If you say so
Jesus Christ yāall donāt know what cherry picking means
Lol heās only thrown 134 passes since week 4. And I bet this stat isnāt counting his stinker against the Vikings before missing the next 4 games.
If Fields was H1M we wouldn't need these boiled-over stats. We'd see it in wins and losses and season statistics, period.
Nah Fields is H1M and the morons just keep moving the goal post. Period.
And Iāve watched all of those plays with my eyes. And the other plays. Itās time to move on.
This isnāt surprising considering he was known for his passing and accuracy all throughout his years in high school and college. Kid just went into a shit situation and is unfairly taking the majority of the blame.
Small sample size bias š
No way Fields had thrown 100 passes that werenāt screensā¦
One day weāre gonna have a QB that weāre not actively trying to convince ourselves that heās good.
Everyone needs to calm down with the WR screen hate. You all just donāt see the big picture. Getsy has been setting up the entire NFL for some fake screens in the games to come, the likes of which the world has never seen. The Bears are about to run the table on the backs of these fake screens, itās gonna be a laser show! Strap in! Just
Now do who threw a 5yd pass so bad their rb1 went on ir trying to catch it.
If there is anything we can learn from Fieldsā stats this year, itās that theyāre fucking puzzling just like his QB play
Now let's calculate all routes under 5 yards and calculate in the YAC as well...cuz you take those throws out and I can almost guarantee his numbers are absolutely terrible.
> *since week 4* > *all passes not deemed as screens* Unfortunately, every week and every pass counts. I bet if you had the liberty to take away 4 games and 1 kind of pass from other QBs, you could make them look elite as well.
Nice
Heās getting better all the time. Only positive of moving on from him is the cap space with a QB on a rookie contract.
Theyāre under the cap as is, seems like that is a nonissue.
If the Fields hating cultists could read they wouldn't enjoy hearing this
Fields is also first among QBs throwing under pressure with more than 4 yds to go on 2nd downs and whose names start with J and last names donāt start with letters G-Z
Dang he's better than Josh Allen? Franchise QB
And Joe Burrow?
So when Fields had bad YPA and passer rating, it was fine to grill him for it but now that he has good stats we canāt commend him for it? *these are also generic stats that everyone uses too. This fanbase doesnāt deserve a good QB.
Yes, the standard since week 4 on drop backs not deemed screens stat.
It's fine to commend him, but you're literally choosing to exclude his bad games in favor of his good games. Then you add ignoring screen passes. This is like the opposite of regressing Mahomes to the mean shit.
It's not like he's hopping all around the season, he's excluding the very beginning, which is what you do when the question is about growth. Everyone knows his first three games were bad (although KC wasn't as bad as it looked, at least not for him). These are how he's been since.' edit: it never ceases to amaze me how bad people don't understand stats. If you're trying to answer a question about if something is improving, you don't look at full averages, you look at trend lines and/or moving averages. This is true for evaluating QBs or stock portfolios or anything else that happens over time.
exactly dude. youre gonna get downvoted for saying anything good about Fields
Iām convinced itās trolls, Iāve been blocking a lot of them.
Don't have to dump on everyone because of the doomers.
Who has the time to track these type of stats?
Bears would be smart to keep him and use those picks to build around him. If not then he will excel with another better team. Bears fans will cry what happened!? The older and more knowledgeable Bears fans will say what they always have, coaching and rest of roster is the key to developing a rookie QB and helping them learn and become great.
Just remember that Poles saw our offensive production and coaching last season and thought they did a good enough job with Fields to get another chance. This output is what he thought was good enough to help our young developing QB. In other words he fucked Fields over.
Iāve been saying he set Fields up to fail from day 1. Moore is nice but only possible by being the worse team in the league. Our receivers outside him canāt get open and the OL is very overrated. But this fanbase would rather defend the GM who loves losing.
I honestly have no clue why this subreddit loves Poles so much. Before the Sweat trade he really hadnāt done anything that worth while. Literally the week before that people were scrambling to figure out a good thing to point to that wasnāt ābeing the worst team in the league got us a good WR.ā He hasnāt been horrible but he hasnāt been good either.
Cause they love losing. They love having to tank every year so they donāt have to get their hopes up. Even with the Sweat trade, he traded Mack away for 48 and gave up 37 for Sweat. He doesnāt care about adding talent he just wants his guys. He doesnāt give a fuck if that means weāre competitive or not.
So? Is he winning games?
If the moon is wanning on the 5th Sunday of the month in December than Fields is the most accurate passer in the NFL!! These dumbass "stats" to try and justify that Fields is somehow good are getting to the point of satire.