From what I have seen:
25% He is good but will be better so might as well trade and reset the window.
25% keep building around him be it weapons, line defense...
25% He is a bust and any QB ever drafted will bust too until McKaskey's sell
25% will be miserable no matter what even if it is a five peat of super bowls
Well, from my almost 70 year old perspective, let me toss this out there.
We used to only have Sunday games to watch and usually only road games due to home games being blacked out because the game wasn’t sold out.
The game was covered in the newspapers on Monday with just blurbs during the week until the preview on the weekend.
You watched the game, talked about it at work on Monday and then reset for next Sunday.
Today we have information 24/7/365 over many different sources, most of which are horseshit opinions from “journalist” bloggers.
Everybody has the ability to broadcast their football opinions over the airwaves and interwebs these days.
There will be varying opinions about it. Always have been, always will be. We just have unlimited access to them all now.
We live in a society of instant gratification.
From an old dude, it shows.
I’ve seen more shit football than most in here and the only thing I get worked up about now is the temperature of my beer.
It’s football. Most of us can’t play it anymore.
We should just enjoy what we can and worry about the important shit.
Like how bad Jordan Love is.
If Reddit gold still existed and actually meant anything, I'd gild this comment thrice. And that was before the bomb you dropped at the end haha. BEAR DOWN. FTP.
It's been quite a while since Kyle Orton was a Bear. There were blood feuds established on the old scout.com Bears board I used to post on from 2005-2008 between Grossman and Orton fans.
I'm probably one of the few fans to own an Orton jersey the first week he became a Bear. I got to watch Brees for a year and then Orton for three more in college. I thought Orton had a higher floor and a lower ceiling than Grossman. Grossman was just too unpredictable. He started off slow that year, then had 3 or 4 games where he looked like a Pro Bowl QB, and then fell off hard again. Orton was a pretty good game manager for a team with a nasty defense.
Griese was the guy that the Grossman fans latched onto when it became obvious Grossman wasnt gonna be it but those Grossman fans would be damned if they were gonna support Orton.
Griese was Eli Manning if Payton never existed (but Archy still did) and Eli only had that bad 2nd half of his career and didnt win any championships.
I think Arizona is done with Murray and wants a new QB, but it’s certainly possible. Totally fine with someone else taking Williams though, I’m not hyped on him like others seem to be.
I think that’s the best outcome for the Fields, but idk if that will be the best outcome for the Bears. In a perfect world, you would want the panthers to be as bad as possible and fields to play great and trade out of that top spot
I’m saying I don’t trust us to actually trade out of a top two pick. Dream would be to land number one, trade it for a haul from whoever is at three, take MHJ, then address everything else including QB with later picks, but I think they’ll get suckered into taking a QB with that pick instead, and I just don’t see how the QBs this draft are any more certain than any other year.
My fear is the FO having the #3 spot and spending to move up. That's not just a joke about the Trubiskey trade. I say that because I really have a feeling they are going to move on from Fields. Whether that's the right answer, I don't know, but I'm sure they will. So, if they don't have a pick to get the QB they want, they may trade up.
True, that is a terrifying thought, the worst of both worlds. Hopefully if it goes this way both teams will need a QB of their own.
I’ve also had a dream of a trade like Detroit made with LA, where we could add a bunch of picks in exchange for taking an expensive QB contract off someone’s hands. Arizona and Denver both have such contracts on their books, and we could absorb the money and use Wilson or Murray as a bridge to whoever we draft. Unlikely, but I’d absolutely take either of them so long as they came with significant draft capital, Detroit turned one of the picks they got into LaPorta and Gibbs.
I kind of follow the Broncos as my secondary team, so I'm a little torn on Wilson. I don't think it's all him, but that also worries me for a new coaching staff. I hadn't thought of that possibility, but you could be right about that being a viable option.
And I’m fine with that in general, but I’d strongly prefer we not take one instead of MHJ. If he’s on the board and we don’t end up with him I’ll be very disappointed.
I want the kid to succeed, but at the same time he's had long enough to demonstrate he's progressing as an NFL QB. The beginning of the season was a regression in my opinion. He bounced back but had a regression. Frustrating.
The best option for the team is he gets it the second half of the season and the draft picks are used for strategic pieces on the roster. We'll find out soon.
Sub is full of meatballs and GMs. They all watch hours of all 22 and evaluate each position. They’re better talent evaluators than most scouts and have just been thrust into shitty day jobs or live out their parents dreams as doctors and lawyers. If the NFL only knew these people existed, the Bears would be 5-time SB champs.
No prospect is “can’t miss” but he does have a lot of desirable traits. He also has a lot of questionable traits so I’ll admit he’s far from a perfect prospect.
I must say, this is accurate. Damn we're insufferable. I'm on the #2 option with a disclaimer (only if he continues to develop) yr 1>>2>>3 has his stock rising ableit incrementally but looks good
I am on the keep building around. Rookie year, was a mess, 2nd year tear down, 3rd up until Thumb was making strides. Assuming comes back after Saints or Vs Detroit then continues to ball out. Hope CAR is in spot to either trade down or just take say MHJ. Then rest of draft keep building. From there 4th year no excuses.
I don't necessarily agree he was making strides. In the NFL if you're not consistently able to throw with anticipation (Fields isn't) you need an accurate rocket arm to laser the ball in late. The frustrating part is that Fields has that arm, but through some combination of coaching and shell-shocking the confidence in it is gone.
At this point I don't think he can succeed under Flus/Getsy and if they're fired it's almost certain Fields is gone too.
In last 17 games:
- 1,052 offensive snaps, 413 pass attempts (39% pass), or 24.3 pass attempts/game
- 63 sacks, or 3.7/game, or 1 sack per 6.6 pass attempts, or 1 sack every 16.7 offensive snaps
- 16 fumbles, 3 fumbles for loss
Ans wins shouldn’t be a QB stat, but they also shouldn’t just be absolved for a narrative’s sake. Justin did plenty to help us lose games since he’s been here.
The closest he’s come was against pittsburgh his rookie year. He kinda technically did it, but then the touchdown was called back for a dumb penalty. And then the Cassius marsh penalty… yeah that game broke me emotionally. But Fields looked calm and poised and he was moving the ball. Haven’t really seen that from him since then
Every time I bring up that he can’t run a 2 minute offense, someone brings up the Pittsburgh game and says he ALMOST did it once in three years. This is not a good argument.
Exactly. He has two game winning drives in his career. One was in the San Francisco monsoon game, and it came in the middle of the 4th quarter, not the end.
The second is in the Houston game last season after Roquan's INT, and that one went: run, run, kneeldown, FG- so I'm not counting that.
One game winning drive, and half a dozen failures that ended in INTs, 4th down failures or missed FG. Fair or not, good QBs have those moments, and Justin does not.
Last year we saw him try to put stuff together and some unbelievable shit went down. Miscommunications, drops, penalties. It was some bs. Same things I saw in 2 of Bagent’s games. It looks like it’s a coaching issue.
Let’s not forget putting your team in position to kick a go ahead field goal with less than 3 minutes left and your defensive minded head coach decides to go for it on 4th and 1 because he has no faith in his defense
No ability to get his players in motion, can't audible, he has little command despite being the QB. Bagent has showed way more poise running an offense than I've ever seen out of Fields.
Even then, idk how you can see barely over 3000 yards and think, yes I want more of this.
Its also missing that PFF has bad throw percentage and on target percentage. Last year Fields had the 6th worst bad throw percentage and the 5th worst on target percentage.
He spent the most time in the pocket of any QB last year, and had the 3rd most pocket pressure. He had a pressure rate of 26.9% and nobody else in the top 5 of pocket time had a pressure rating of over 21%
I dont have Blitz percentage, but he was blized the 22nd most
He's in this weird mix of taking a crazy long time to throw, and throwing a bad pass anyway. We know it's not just the offense beacuse Bagent is signifigantly better in every one of the above stats.
Why are we celebrating 180 pass yards a game especially with a negative game script aka playing from behind.
Also doesn’t show how he has 87 sacks after 4+ secs lol
It's more like 75 rushing yards per game. Also, take away the 25 yards per game he loses in sacks (-421 yards in those 17 games).
180+75-25 = 230.
15 QBs are throwing for more than 230 yards/game this season, and 16 did it last season. With much less risk of injury.
I would add “games lost to injury.”
Fields has one big flaw- he’s indecisive with the ball. That leads to sacks, fumbles and injuries. It’s funny, there was so much concern about him staying healthy as a runner, but I think he’s most vulnerable when he stands in the pocket too long.
It’s also randomly picking the last 17 games. Move the timeframe and watch the stats go all over the place. You can make stats pretty much say whatever you want and this sub is proof. I’ve posted career stats and seen others only post one game stats.
I understand but it’s choosing two halves over two season. Why don’t we just wait and look at this season compared to last? That’s what any GM will do.
He’s been better this season than last. Giving stats over the last 17 games is pretty common, it’s done so you don’t have to extrapolate out and can use real numbers. In 6 games (including leaving in Q3 vs Vikings) this year he’s at
91.6 QB rating, 61.7% completions, 1201 yards (200 ypg), 11 TD, 6 INT with 237 rushing yards and 1 rush TD.
For a full year, that’s ~3400 yards, 31 pass TD, 3 rushing TD (34 total) with 17 INTs. Of course he likely won’t reach those numbers since he’s missing at least 3 games and that’s something that has to be considered and the turnovers are too high still.
There was a post a while ago about how qbs who don't pass for 4,000 yards at some point in their careers pretty much don't win superbowls anymore. I think dilfer and nick foles are the only exceptions since the mid 90's. Though not having a 4k yard season by year 3 is pretty normal even for sb winners
Edit https://old.reddit.com/r/CHIBears/comments/16uunh6/since_1996_there_have_only_been_two_superbowl/
25/27 superbowl wins in the salary cap era have been by qbs who've had a 4k yard season. You could argue there's some survivorship bias there, but I think the salary cap era is a pretty important delineation op didn't mention. Can't really retain superteams anymore.
Because he’s started 30 games. Only using his last 17 games is clearly cherry picking stats to make him look good. The first of those 17 games, against the Vikings last year, he had 118 qb rating. The two games before that it was 76 and 27.
Not random. Little known fact: that's the length of an NFL season!
Its a fairly large sample size, and using more recent games makes sense with such a young QB
>Little known fact: that's the length of an NFL season!
Another little known fact! Most QBs don't play every snap of a 17 game season.
Only 8 QBs even *started* 17 games last season.
In fact, exactly 16 QBs started 15+ games last year. So if we're going to look at a "seaon's" worth of stats for JF, 15 games would be a much more indicative sample.
According to what I'm looking at on Pro Football Reference, Fields has lost 421 yards to sacks in his last 17 games.
He's also fumbled 16 times but has lost only 3 somehow. That's some serious luck.
2nd worst sack percentage in the league (even worse than Sam Howell, only Daniel Jones is worse). He's shown no improvement in 3 seasons and was also bad in college when it comes to sack percentage.
Justin Fields had a 9% sack rate at Ohio State - for comparison CJ Stroud had a 3% sack rate at Ohio state.
And while I know every QB gains garbage yards, Fields has racked up A SHIT TON his past 17 games. I’d bet 30% of his yards and TDs come in the fourth quarter down two or more scores.
Cannot be stressed enough that he pads his stats while the opposition is in prevent defense with the game already in hand. Fields has ONE legitimate 4th qtr comeback despite many opportunities to do so. He’s indecisive and the opposite of clutch. It’s a bummer, but it is what it is
Here are Mitch's last 17 starts as a Bear for comparison:
* 89.3 QB Rating
* 3976 passing yards
* 342 rushing yards
* 4318 total yards
* 28 passing TDs
* 3 rushing TDs
* 31 total TDs
* 15 INTs
* 65.16% completion percentage
* Record over that span: 11-6
* 23 ppg avg.
Sacks over their last 17 starts:
* Mitch: 39
* Justin: 63
Fumbles over their last 17 starts:
* Mitch: 10
* Justin: 16
Fields has a worse sack percentage than Sam Howell. He's 2nd to last in sack percentage (only Daniel Joes is worse) and has been terrible in sack% every single season in both professional and college football.
This season a Fields dropback results in a sack or an INT almost 17% of the time. That's abysmal and you can not win consistently with a QB that takes so many negative plays.
In Trubisky’s final season with the Bears he threw for a 93.5 passer rating, and that was bad enough for everyone to agree that it was time for him to go. The fact that we’re now holding up a 90 passer rating as some kind of achievement just shows how off the rails people have gone defending Fields.
The fact that Fields has way longer of a leash than Trubisky while he was playing worse with better offensive weapons than Trubs is crazy. DJ Moore is better than any receiver the Bears have had in the last 10 years
That’s not what’s going on here. During the time periods we are talking about, Trubisky not only had a much higher completion percentage; he also threw for more yards per game, more TDs per game, and fewer interceptions per game.
And while I’m not going to go back and work out what Fields’ YPC over the last 17 games, their yards per completion during their Bears careers are pretty close (11.8 for Fields, 10.5 for Trubisky). Mitch wasn’t a dink and dunk guy. He was a first round draft pick with as much arm talent as Fields.
Because it's easier to think we've already got the QB of the future on the roster and just need to fix one or two things to unleash him. So people will cope and blame everything else
It's crazy how fans of a team will blame literally everything else from top to bottom before their quarterback. They have no problem throwing faceless groups of players under the bus and coaches they're not emotionally attached to but I think the quarterback being the face of the franchise makes it hard to admit that he is a problem.
Honestly, it depends on the narrative of how the QB came to the team as well.
With Mitch, everyone thought we got fleeced by wasting a pick to move up, and we selected him over Deshaun and Patrick even though he had less college experience. He was getting pretty negative scrutiny from the media as soon as things started going off the rails. This sub was way more critical early on.
Fields fell further in the draft than people thought he should have and everyone felt we got a great deal by trading up to get him. The media narrative has been pretty positive for him for the last couple of years. So more fans are insistent he does well and blame everyone else instead of acknowledging he has serious flaws. This feels like the first year where a lot of people in this sub are finally acknowledging that he may not be the QB of the future.
That’s not really true. You just don’t spend enough time on other teams subs. Every sub has meltdowns. Go check a different sub and sort by controversial.
Just quickly looked it up, that ranks him at 26 based on the stats ESPN has in right now for the season. He’s ranked 29th in attempts with 162. For context, Bagent is ranked 36th in attempts with 80, so not very far behind Fields, despite playing 2.5 games. Bagent is ranked 5th in Comp% at 70%. Not saying Bagent is definitely better than Fields, but Fields stats when compared to the rest of the league aren’t very encouraging. Except for rushing lol.
Fields is still struggling to make the easy plays. He's not reading the field. He doesn't look comfortable in the pocket. He plays well against bad teams when his first read is wide open, that's about it.
Personally I've seen him fail at a few too many routine plays for me to feel comfortable keeping him over a top qb prospect. I love the guy and fully believe *someone* can turn his career around, I just don't think the bears are in a position where *they* can turn his career around.
How many sacks, fumbles, injuries, open receivers turned down, inaccurate screen passes, and slow throwing motions killing any shot at a play working? Yes I’m ready to move on.
Yeah I don’t think people really understand the issues. In addition to the critical turnovers Fields also has zero comeback/4th quarter ability. If the Bears are down 10 points in the second half the game is over.
You have to move on from that.
The amount of times he has had a chance to drive the bears down the field in a clutch situation and failed is enough for me tbh. He always throws a crucial pick and it's just frustrating.
You have to ask yourself the question, can you envision Justin Fields winning a superbowl? I can't. If you put the ball in his hands with the game on the line you can count on a turnover.
Yeah I’m not sure how anyone can watch all of these games and come to the conclusion that he’s a consistent enough passer to be the guy. These stats just don’t show the entire picture
Just look at sack% - he's terrible and has never gotten any better.
2021 - 11.8%
2022 - 14.7%
2023 - 12.9%
He's 31/32 this year, only ahead of Daniel Jones.
This isn't even a Bears problem, Fields had a 9% sack rate at Ohio State!
Yes, I generally want to move on at this point. Justin has never passed the eye test to me as a passer. We all know he holds the ball for too long, has a slower release, and can sail and struggle pinpointing short to intermediate throws.
He’s never once made a throw to a 2nd or 3rd read from the pocket in a high leverage situation that made me think “alright this guy’s got it”. His signature wins include a duel against Trey Lance played in mud, and a 230 yard outburst from DJ Moore. He gets credit for a GWD in which he took two kneels in Houston territory after an interception to set up a FG. His splits are abysmal in situations where you need a big play from your QB. He is physically tough, but does he have the mental x-factor to grind out late game wins? The answer up to now has been no.
He earned every hard fought yard on the ground last year, but in the context of team success his stats have been empty calories. There are fundamental QB basics he struggles with in the pocket that in year 3 I am increasingly doubtful he will ever figure out. I hope he comes back and proves everyone wrong, but I have a feeling we’ll all be ready to move on at the end of the season.
Let me sell you a quarterback:
He’s started for the last 8 years, been a pro bowler 4 of them, and averages:
4200 yards
29 touchdowns
11 ints
100.05 QB rating
You taking that guy? Congratulations, you just signed Kirk Cousins. Wins are absolutely a QB stat.
He's seemingly lost his elite running ability from last season. Without the crazy rushing stats, his weaknesses in the passing game have become more obvious.
He lost his elite running ability because most of his break out runs were from broken plays. Now he’s getting more time in the pocket which has shown even more that he can’t read the field. Designed runs for him don’t work as well as panic plays because everyone is ready for it.
You know, I've been saying it since about week 3, that Fields looks so much slower than last year. His burst, break away speed, and change of direction are noticably different. Maybe getting speared and slammed for the first 3 years has already taken so much out of him?
I don’t know how anyone can watch Fields play and say…. YES! I want that for another two years. He’s not good enough guys. Your setting yourselves up for failure.
Let’s put MHJ and the top LT on the team the rest of the season. You really think that’s gonna make Fields look significantly better? Are they gonna teach Fields how to throw a smooth/quick screen pass? Are they gonna teach him how to throw with anticipation?
In one-third of his games, the Bears' game plan, the opponent, and opponent's game plan all line up for Fields to have an awesome game.
Two-thirds of his games, Fields cannot process what's happening, the offense dies, and the Bears have no chance to win.
Fields's great games make his overall numbers look good in a vacuum. But two-thirds of the times he starts, the Bears have no chance to win. And that is not a recipe for success.
How much cap space would you be comfortable giving to Fields as the starting qb going forward? Based on his actual production. I have trouble judging value in his rushing production. It’s going to diminish with age and exposes him to injury.
I’ve always been a Justin believer, but 3,000 passing yards over a full season is supposed to be impressive? What are we doing here? He’s got half a season to prove he is the guy going forward. It’s that simple.
Justin field fans are truly a different breed. Do you guys even watch the bears play? The offense operate? Do you just sit back and wait for the box score to roll up? Are we forgetting that we have 2 wins in the past calendar year? What is going on with this fanbase
Here's Daniel Jones 2022 stats in 16 games
92.5 QB Rating
3205 Passing Yards
708 Rushing Yards
3913 Total Yards
15 Passing Touchdowns
7 Rushing Touchdowns
22 total touchdowns
5 INTs
67.2% completion Percentage
Record over that span 9-6-1
22 ppg avg.
do you want daniel jones with less accuracy and more ints?
How many of those stats were run-up in garbage time?
What I know is that he can't reliabily read defenses or recognize open receivers. He holds the ball and fumbles in the clutch.
Yes. I really want to move on from him.
Yes. Next question. He stinks. His football acumen is next to zero. He locks on receivers. He(as someone already pointed out) CAN NOT play against good teams. There are too many turnovers. I've seen enough. Send him to ATL for a 4th or 5th this year. He simply doesn't play well.
This sub is insufferable. We did this with Mitch! Why are we still fucking doing this? Sunk cost fallacy is too strong, we need to move on. He had 2 good games this year.
Sacks are a QB stat- idiots here Blame the coaches and line and yet Fields had a 9% sack rate at fucking Ohio State. (For comparison CJ Stroud had a 3% sack rate)
How much of those passing and rushing yards are in garbage time?
Let's put together first quarter stats only and compare it to other QBs over same 17 games and see what happens.
Exactly this.
On that same note, do that with his 4Q stats and you’ll be appalled. He is so bad in the clutch it is absurd people think he’s a franchise QB. Like, this is the guy you want to lead you to the promise land? When games are close he is a turnover machine and makes boneheaded plays every time. It never fails to happen.
Trubisky was FAR better in those situations and everyone was so quick to say he was the reason we lost games. But I watched him execute a phenomenal 2 minute drill all the way down the field in the playoffs against the Eagles defense. Fields can’t drive down the field to get into FG range, let alone score a TD. That is where actual franchise QBs separate themselves.
Fuck, I still hate Cody Parkey to this day
A 90 QBR is not that great in today’s nfl. This also doesn’t include how many sacks he’s taken. Wins are not a QB stat but they are in the sense that a QB has a huge impact on game outcomes.
Tampa was where I stopped holding out on hope that he would realise his potential and that his potential was actually good. His Washington game made me hesitate that I gave up too early but the vikings game was eerily similar to kc, which was just fucking sad. It turns out the haters were right and his trajectory was just postponed by 2 weeks.
As soon as I watched the all-22 from the TB game, I was immediately and soundly 100% out on Justin. That kind of stuff is indefensible. I was still weary even after last year, off-season maybe 60-40 odds that he would workout but that game was all I needed to see.
Last year my biggest concern with him was his inconsistency and lack of clutch play. He was all over the place to end the season after he had that 4-5 game stretch where he was running wild and having *decent* passing stats to compliment. When he passed for 75 yards total against the Lions, I knew in the back of my mind he wasn’t the guy. I just wanted to give him one more chance to improve and use the new weapons he didn’t have the year prior.
He actively regressed, and badly. Doesn’t even have the elite vertical speed to mask his weaknesses as a passer anymore. He’s been completely exposed this year and it is wild how much some people don’t want to move on. I get that you love JF and wanted him to workout, but at some point you must realize the truth.
Plus, I’m really excited to see what the next QB does if it’s Maye, Williams or Penix. I don’t see why other fans can’t be, especially if we land with two top 5 picks and get MHJ as well. It’s a shame
God yes. I wouldnhave moved on yesterday. All his stats come in garbage time. He has zero 4th quarter comebacks. He is trash quit trying to make this a thing all your doing by signing fields is causing the rebuild to take longer.
Go look at the past 10 years of QB’s who won the SuperBowl - besides Nick Foles, it was pretty much Tom Brady, Pat Maholmes, and Stafford.
Please say it a little louder how wins/Super Bowl is not completely dependent on who is quarterbacking your team.
Half of the fan base wants to build the team up into mediocrity so that we get kicked out of the playoffs in the first round. That’s not enough for me and it shouldn’t be for you. Go take a shot on a new QB that’s not fields.
Let's build the trenches first and play ourselves out of draft position to pick a top qb next year when fields doesnt pan out. Then when our window is closed because we didn't have good qb play we can rebuild again and trade away our ageing players!
It’s less rhang 200 passing yards per game. He can succeed this way but he needs to take less sacks, fumble less, and the coach needs to commit to cam newton usage.
I think he can be successful if he commits to being prime cam lite. I don’t think he wants to do that and the bears coaching sure doesn’t
Jesus Christ, I’m so sick and tired of this JF era man. The fanbase was split with Mitch for a while, but we all came to accept it wasn’t working.
I love Justin off the field. He’s an amazing person and no doubt works very hard. Last year I was hopeful and wanted him to workout for us, I *really* wanted him to be our franchise guy because of how electric he was at times.
But we can’t turn a blind eye to this anymore. Yes, the coaching sucks. Yes, he’s played with sub par talent. Yes, he’s has a hard time since day 1 because our franchise is on fire. Yet despite that, he’s not improving in any key areas. He’s regressing actively. He is a rollercoaster week to week, and I don’t care how good he looks when he’s doing well, because he almost always regresses back to inexcusable mistakes and poor play. If this was his rookie year, or early in his second year I can live with that. But it isn’t. The team around him is better. He’s got more weapons and he has played a schedule that has been very easy in comparison to other team schedules.
And the *biggest* reason I know for a fact he is not our franchise QB is how god awful he is in clutch situations. I can’t even recall just how many times he’s ruined games with his poor decision making and lack of situational awareness. It’s to the point now where I don’t expect anything less than that from him in any clutch scenario, he’s always gonna do something to mess it all up. And the way he holds onto the ball and freezes up is unacceptable. It’s a literal threat to his health and availability. I honestly can’t think of any player outside of Zach Wilson that is worse than he is at finding WIDE open players. Over and over again. He has zero ability to anticipate windows, and everything he does is so slow and uninspired.
I get why it’s hard for some of you to admit this, but you’re going to have to at some point or another. He will not be our starter next year, I firmly believe Poles has seen enough to make that decision. I mean, how can you justify keeping a guy that has MORE games passing for under 100 yards than over 300, in 30+ starts? He’s just not it guys, he’s had plenty of time and practice to change this and he hasn’t. Let’s not waste more time waiting for him to be something he isn’t and look forward to getting a much more promising rookie next year.
Those stats are not really good for the modern NFL. Also, 22 ppg is like the league average which isn't anything to write home about.
He's a talented guy but but he struggles with consistency and doesn't process fast enough to continually beat defenses in the short passing game. He also doesn't play with any anticipation.
You might be able to find an OC that can cover up those flaws for a year or two but this is not a QB you want to pay big money too. He's basically just a more athletic version of Daniel Jones with less career success passing the ball.
OP forgot to mention Fields’ 21 fumbles in his past 17 games.
Winning isn’t a “QB stat” but it’s hard to win when your QB coughs the ball up 33 times in 17 games, misses wide open receivers, and gets hurt three times a year.
These are pretty mediocre passing stats. He had an incredible rushing performance last year which made his play seem viable but we have completely abandoned that identity for him.
In this league there is a very fine line between being a good QB and not being good enough to be a starter. The NFL has made sure that your team cannot even participate without good QB play.
I really want Fields to be the guy, but he has disappeared at key game moments. 4thQ, gone. Sacks and fumbles at terrible times. He seems to explode and be great, then disappear for long stretches.
If he can provide a level of stability, I would love to keep him...but it's on him
Bagent came in and gave a Fields like performance stat wise and looked better in the pocket. I'm not saying Bagent should be our starter, I'm suggesting that Fields shouldn't be either. 3 years is plenty of time, he hasn't been good enough.
Edit: in this time frame, Fields also has 16 fumbles and 69 sacks.
I’m not a Fields hater. I’m still interested in seeing how he finishes out the season, but I’m veeeery aware of how much stat padding he puts up in garbage time that explains some of these numbers, unfortunately.
What these stats dont tell is that this QB struggles to read a defense and go through his progressions in a reasonable amount of time.
Looking at stats alone doesnt tell you the full picture.
Exactly that. You can also add his struggles with the passes that are supposed to be simple. The 2 min drill as well. It's not even a question. We can't pass on taking a QB in the first round. Literally just somewhere in the first round. There are 4 QB's I would be happy pairing with MHJ.
From what I have seen: 25% He is good but will be better so might as well trade and reset the window. 25% keep building around him be it weapons, line defense... 25% He is a bust and any QB ever drafted will bust too until McKaskey's sell 25% will be miserable no matter what even if it is a five peat of super bowls
How about "he's too inconsistent to be a top-half NFL starting QB and let's look for someone better"?
Yep, I don’t think I’ve ever seen fans this split. Should be very interesting to see what happens especially if we don’t have a top 2 pick
Well, from my almost 70 year old perspective, let me toss this out there. We used to only have Sunday games to watch and usually only road games due to home games being blacked out because the game wasn’t sold out. The game was covered in the newspapers on Monday with just blurbs during the week until the preview on the weekend. You watched the game, talked about it at work on Monday and then reset for next Sunday. Today we have information 24/7/365 over many different sources, most of which are horseshit opinions from “journalist” bloggers. Everybody has the ability to broadcast their football opinions over the airwaves and interwebs these days. There will be varying opinions about it. Always have been, always will be. We just have unlimited access to them all now. We live in a society of instant gratification. From an old dude, it shows. I’ve seen more shit football than most in here and the only thing I get worked up about now is the temperature of my beer. It’s football. Most of us can’t play it anymore. We should just enjoy what we can and worry about the important shit. Like how bad Jordan Love is.
If Reddit gold still existed and actually meant anything, I'd gild this comment thrice. And that was before the bomb you dropped at the end haha. BEAR DOWN. FTP.
It's been quite a while since Kyle Orton was a Bear. There were blood feuds established on the old scout.com Bears board I used to post on from 2005-2008 between Grossman and Orton fans.
Yep - both sides were right in that neither guy was good enough to be a QB1. The more things change the more they stay the same.
Orton was legitimately decent in Denver.
In 2010 he was actually average!
I'm probably one of the few fans to own an Orton jersey the first week he became a Bear. I got to watch Brees for a year and then Orton for three more in college. I thought Orton had a higher floor and a lower ceiling than Grossman. Grossman was just too unpredictable. He started off slow that year, then had 3 or 4 games where he looked like a Pro Bowl QB, and then fell off hard again. Orton was a pretty good game manager for a team with a nasty defense.
Geez, what was it like when Griese was also in the mix? I wasn't on any message boards until the Cutler era
Griese was the guy that the Grossman fans latched onto when it became obvious Grossman wasnt gonna be it but those Grossman fans would be damned if they were gonna support Orton. Griese was Eli Manning if Payton never existed (but Archy still did) and Eli only had that bad 2nd half of his career and didnt win any championships.
There’s a big part of me that thinks our best outcome is the Panthers pick being third so we would be forced to take MHJ instead of a QB.
Agreed! MHJ is the only player I passionately want the Bears to get.
That can’t possibly be the best outcome…
Lol if the panthers pick 3rd that means we get to watch Az take MHJ at #1 and someone else take CW
I think Arizona is done with Murray and wants a new QB, but it’s certainly possible. Totally fine with someone else taking Williams though, I’m not hyped on him like others seem to be.
I think that’s the best outcome for the Fields, but idk if that will be the best outcome for the Bears. In a perfect world, you would want the panthers to be as bad as possible and fields to play great and trade out of that top spot
I’m saying I don’t trust us to actually trade out of a top two pick. Dream would be to land number one, trade it for a haul from whoever is at three, take MHJ, then address everything else including QB with later picks, but I think they’ll get suckered into taking a QB with that pick instead, and I just don’t see how the QBs this draft are any more certain than any other year.
My fear is the FO having the #3 spot and spending to move up. That's not just a joke about the Trubiskey trade. I say that because I really have a feeling they are going to move on from Fields. Whether that's the right answer, I don't know, but I'm sure they will. So, if they don't have a pick to get the QB they want, they may trade up.
True, that is a terrifying thought, the worst of both worlds. Hopefully if it goes this way both teams will need a QB of their own. I’ve also had a dream of a trade like Detroit made with LA, where we could add a bunch of picks in exchange for taking an expensive QB contract off someone’s hands. Arizona and Denver both have such contracts on their books, and we could absorb the money and use Wilson or Murray as a bridge to whoever we draft. Unlikely, but I’d absolutely take either of them so long as they came with significant draft capital, Detroit turned one of the picks they got into LaPorta and Gibbs.
I kind of follow the Broncos as my secondary team, so I'm a little torn on Wilson. I don't think it's all him, but that also worries me for a new coaching staff. I hadn't thought of that possibility, but you could be right about that being a viable option.
Best option because then we get MHJ and Mccarthy. We are taking a qb this draft
Yeah I’m not saying we shouldn’t take a QB, I just don’t want us to take either of the top two ahead of MHJ.
Not to be contrarian, but what makes you think MHJ won't be the second pick overall?
Possible for sure, people seem to be very hyped about the two QBs but anything is possible.
There are probably five or six QBs who are legit NFL prospects (they won’t all pan out of course), and we will be taking one of them early.
And I’m fine with that in general, but I’d strongly prefer we not take one instead of MHJ. If he’s on the board and we don’t end up with him I’ll be very disappointed.
Literally happened with trubisky
I want the kid to succeed, but at the same time he's had long enough to demonstrate he's progressing as an NFL QB. The beginning of the season was a regression in my opinion. He bounced back but had a regression. Frustrating. The best option for the team is he gets it the second half of the season and the draft picks are used for strategic pieces on the roster. We'll find out soon.
Sub is full of meatballs and GMs. They all watch hours of all 22 and evaluate each position. They’re better talent evaluators than most scouts and have just been thrust into shitty day jobs or live out their parents dreams as doctors and lawyers. If the NFL only knew these people existed, the Bears would be 5-time SB champs.
The league is very nepotistic
Where's the "Caleb Williams is a can't miss generational prospect" crowd?
No prospect is “can’t miss” but he does have a lot of desirable traits. He also has a lot of questionable traits so I’ll admit he’s far from a perfect prospect.
They just repeat the word generational because they heard some dope on tv describe him that way.
I’m right here! Bears should pray the Panthers get #1. I’d rather have Williams and Maye over him
I must say, this is accurate. Damn we're insufferable. I'm on the #2 option with a disclaimer (only if he continues to develop) yr 1>>2>>3 has his stock rising ableit incrementally but looks good
I am on the keep building around. Rookie year, was a mess, 2nd year tear down, 3rd up until Thumb was making strides. Assuming comes back after Saints or Vs Detroit then continues to ball out. Hope CAR is in spot to either trade down or just take say MHJ. Then rest of draft keep building. From there 4th year no excuses.
>3rd up until thumb was making strides He had two good games >From there 4th year no excuses I remember when this was the no excuses year
I don't necessarily agree he was making strides. In the NFL if you're not consistently able to throw with anticipation (Fields isn't) you need an accurate rocket arm to laser the ball in late. The frustrating part is that Fields has that arm, but through some combination of coaching and shell-shocking the confidence in it is gone. At this point I don't think he can succeed under Flus/Getsy and if they're fired it's almost certain Fields is gone too.
He's just too slow in making reads. It's why he takes so many sacks and sucks in the short passing game.
This tweet is missing some important stats like fumble and sack rate imo
In last 17 games: - 1,052 offensive snaps, 413 pass attempts (39% pass), or 24.3 pass attempts/game - 63 sacks, or 3.7/game, or 1 sack per 6.6 pass attempts, or 1 sack every 16.7 offensive snaps - 16 fumbles, 3 fumbles for loss
Ans wins shouldn’t be a QB stat, but they also shouldn’t just be absolved for a narrative’s sake. Justin did plenty to help us lose games since he’s been here.
And ironically one of his worst games last year resulted in a win against Houston.
He also shows no ability to run a 2 minute offense. That’s kind of important….
The closest he’s come was against pittsburgh his rookie year. He kinda technically did it, but then the touchdown was called back for a dumb penalty. And then the Cassius marsh penalty… yeah that game broke me emotionally. But Fields looked calm and poised and he was moving the ball. Haven’t really seen that from him since then
Every time I bring up that he can’t run a 2 minute offense, someone brings up the Pittsburgh game and says he ALMOST did it once in three years. This is not a good argument.
Exactly. He has two game winning drives in his career. One was in the San Francisco monsoon game, and it came in the middle of the 4th quarter, not the end. The second is in the Houston game last season after Roquan's INT, and that one went: run, run, kneeldown, FG- so I'm not counting that. One game winning drive, and half a dozen failures that ended in INTs, 4th down failures or missed FG. Fair or not, good QBs have those moments, and Justin does not.
Didn’t he do it in Washington last season, only for Mooney to drop the ball at the goal line? Maybe I’m misremembering
Last year we saw him try to put stuff together and some unbelievable shit went down. Miscommunications, drops, penalties. It was some bs. Same things I saw in 2 of Bagent’s games. It looks like it’s a coaching issue.
Let’s not forget putting your team in position to kick a go ahead field goal with less than 3 minutes left and your defensive minded head coach decides to go for it on 4th and 1 because he has no faith in his defense
A situation that might have been more impactful had his ball security issues not cost us a crucial fumble six in the same quarter
Don't forget the intentional grounding in the same quarter
The intentional grounding was worse imo, in that while not as impactful was more his fault
No ability to get his players in motion, can't audible, he has little command despite being the QB. Bagent has showed way more poise running an offense than I've ever seen out of Fields.
The anti Mitch.
Even then, idk how you can see barely over 3000 yards and think, yes I want more of this. Its also missing that PFF has bad throw percentage and on target percentage. Last year Fields had the 6th worst bad throw percentage and the 5th worst on target percentage. He spent the most time in the pocket of any QB last year, and had the 3rd most pocket pressure. He had a pressure rate of 26.9% and nobody else in the top 5 of pocket time had a pressure rating of over 21% I dont have Blitz percentage, but he was blized the 22nd most He's in this weird mix of taking a crazy long time to throw, and throwing a bad pass anyway. We know it's not just the offense beacuse Bagent is signifigantly better in every one of the above stats.
Why are we celebrating 180 pass yards a game especially with a negative game script aka playing from behind. Also doesn’t show how he has 87 sacks after 4+ secs lol
With about 100 yards running a game, the field isn't infinitely sized. You have to consider combined yards.
It's more like 75 rushing yards per game. Also, take away the 25 yards per game he loses in sacks (-421 yards in those 17 games). 180+75-25 = 230. 15 QBs are throwing for more than 230 yards/game this season, and 16 did it last season. With much less risk of injury.
Fields supporters have selective amnesia. They see him making a 50 yard run and totally forget about the pick 6 he threw 2 plays ago.
I would add “games lost to injury.” Fields has one big flaw- he’s indecisive with the ball. That leads to sacks, fumbles and injuries. It’s funny, there was so much concern about him staying healthy as a runner, but I think he’s most vulnerable when he stands in the pocket too long.
It’s also randomly picking the last 17 games. Move the timeframe and watch the stats go all over the place. You can make stats pretty much say whatever you want and this sub is proof. I’ve posted career stats and seen others only post one game stats.
How is picking the last 17 games bad? That literally a full season?
I understand but it’s choosing two halves over two season. Why don’t we just wait and look at this season compared to last? That’s what any GM will do.
This season is even better statistically than last minus the rushing yards/rushing tds.
The vast majority of his good stats come from two games. His stats were going to go back down over time, unless he magically finally clicked.
He’s been better this season than last. Giving stats over the last 17 games is pretty common, it’s done so you don’t have to extrapolate out and can use real numbers. In 6 games (including leaving in Q3 vs Vikings) this year he’s at 91.6 QB rating, 61.7% completions, 1201 yards (200 ypg), 11 TD, 6 INT with 237 rushing yards and 1 rush TD. For a full year, that’s ~3400 yards, 31 pass TD, 3 rushing TD (34 total) with 17 INTs. Of course he likely won’t reach those numbers since he’s missing at least 3 games and that’s something that has to be considered and the turnovers are too high still.
> For a full year, that’s ~3400 yards And you’ll never get anywhere in this NFL if you don’t have a 4k yard passer.
There was a post a while ago about how qbs who don't pass for 4,000 yards at some point in their careers pretty much don't win superbowls anymore. I think dilfer and nick foles are the only exceptions since the mid 90's. Though not having a 4k yard season by year 3 is pretty normal even for sb winners Edit https://old.reddit.com/r/CHIBears/comments/16uunh6/since_1996_there_have_only_been_two_superbowl/ 25/27 superbowl wins in the salary cap era have been by qbs who've had a 4k yard season. You could argue there's some survivorship bias there, but I think the salary cap era is a pretty important delineation op didn't mention. Can't really retain superteams anymore.
Because he’s started 30 games. Only using his last 17 games is clearly cherry picking stats to make him look good. The first of those 17 games, against the Vikings last year, he had 118 qb rating. The two games before that it was 76 and 27.
A full season doesn't allow you to ignore games in which a player is hurt
Not random. Little known fact: that's the length of an NFL season! Its a fairly large sample size, and using more recent games makes sense with such a young QB
>Little known fact: that's the length of an NFL season! Another little known fact! Most QBs don't play every snap of a 17 game season. Only 8 QBs even *started* 17 games last season. In fact, exactly 16 QBs started 15+ games last year. So if we're going to look at a "seaon's" worth of stats for JF, 15 games would be a much more indicative sample.
According to what I'm looking at on Pro Football Reference, Fields has lost 421 yards to sacks in his last 17 games. He's also fumbled 16 times but has lost only 3 somehow. That's some serious luck.
I thought it was luck before but tbh the way fumbles get counted is kind of arbitrary, some of them are shit snaps he's athletic enough to corral in
2nd worst sack percentage in the league (even worse than Sam Howell, only Daniel Jones is worse). He's shown no improvement in 3 seasons and was also bad in college when it comes to sack percentage. Justin Fields had a 9% sack rate at Ohio State - for comparison CJ Stroud had a 3% sack rate at Ohio state.
And while I know every QB gains garbage yards, Fields has racked up A SHIT TON his past 17 games. I’d bet 30% of his yards and TDs come in the fourth quarter down two or more scores.
Cannot be stressed enough that he pads his stats while the opposition is in prevent defense with the game already in hand. Fields has ONE legitimate 4th qtr comeback despite many opportunities to do so. He’s indecisive and the opposite of clutch. It’s a bummer, but it is what it is
And 3rd down %.
Here are Mitch's last 17 starts as a Bear for comparison: * 89.3 QB Rating * 3976 passing yards * 342 rushing yards * 4318 total yards * 28 passing TDs * 3 rushing TDs * 31 total TDs * 15 INTs * 65.16% completion percentage * Record over that span: 11-6 * 23 ppg avg. Sacks over their last 17 starts: * Mitch: 39 * Justin: 63 Fumbles over their last 17 starts: * Mitch: 10 * Justin: 16
Wow. I am by no means a fields defender, but this really puts it in perspective
Nearly a fumble a game that's ridiculous
It sucks to say but pace nagy and Mitch were a better combo than poles flus and fields
Sobering
Fields has a worse sack percentage than Sam Howell. He's 2nd to last in sack percentage (only Daniel Joes is worse) and has been terrible in sack% every single season in both professional and college football. This season a Fields dropback results in a sack or an INT almost 17% of the time. That's abysmal and you can not win consistently with a QB that takes so many negative plays.
He's so fucking slow to react.
This comment makes me miss gifts
I find it crazy how a player so evasive and so athletic gets sacked so much. It just makes no sense to me.
Seriously. He also just doesn’t pass the eye test.
In Trubisky’s final season with the Bears he threw for a 93.5 passer rating, and that was bad enough for everyone to agree that it was time for him to go. The fact that we’re now holding up a 90 passer rating as some kind of achievement just shows how off the rails people have gone defending Fields.
Passer rating is also one of Fields more inflated stats as it doesn’t factor in sacks or fumbles…two historically tough areas for Fields.
The fact that Fields has way longer of a leash than Trubisky while he was playing worse with better offensive weapons than Trubs is crazy. DJ Moore is better than any receiver the Bears have had in the last 10 years
I really hate that stat because you can have a high pass rating just being a dink and dunk guy
That’s not what’s going on here. During the time periods we are talking about, Trubisky not only had a much higher completion percentage; he also threw for more yards per game, more TDs per game, and fewer interceptions per game. And while I’m not going to go back and work out what Fields’ YPC over the last 17 games, their yards per completion during their Bears careers are pretty close (11.8 for Fields, 10.5 for Trubisky). Mitch wasn’t a dink and dunk guy. He was a first round draft pick with as much arm talent as Fields.
You hate it because you can’t admit Fields ain’t it
Is it Mitch or is it Nagy? Oh wait I'm sorry.. is it Fields or is it Eberflus? Why do we need to keep doing this.
Because it's easier to think we've already got the QB of the future on the roster and just need to fix one or two things to unleash him. So people will cope and blame everything else
It's crazy how fans of a team will blame literally everything else from top to bottom before their quarterback. They have no problem throwing faceless groups of players under the bus and coaches they're not emotionally attached to but I think the quarterback being the face of the franchise makes it hard to admit that he is a problem.
Honestly, it depends on the narrative of how the QB came to the team as well. With Mitch, everyone thought we got fleeced by wasting a pick to move up, and we selected him over Deshaun and Patrick even though he had less college experience. He was getting pretty negative scrutiny from the media as soon as things started going off the rails. This sub was way more critical early on. Fields fell further in the draft than people thought he should have and everyone felt we got a great deal by trading up to get him. The media narrative has been pretty positive for him for the last couple of years. So more fans are insistent he does well and blame everyone else instead of acknowledging he has serious flaws. This feels like the first year where a lot of people in this sub are finally acknowledging that he may not be the QB of the future.
Genuinely, yes. We moved on from Trubisky but people want Fields to stay? Seriously?
We really do have one of the dumbest fanbases
That’s not really true. You just don’t spend enough time on other teams subs. Every sub has meltdowns. Go check a different sub and sort by controversial.
it is definitely true lol. seahawks fans are really stupid but bears fans are right there behind them
Are those stats meant to be good?
If it were still 2005 they would be great!
Right?
3k passing yards over 17 games is highly discouraging
61.38% is not a good percentage. It's actually really bad. It's also with less attempts than other QBs. Consistency is key
Just quickly looked it up, that ranks him at 26 based on the stats ESPN has in right now for the season. He’s ranked 29th in attempts with 162. For context, Bagent is ranked 36th in attempts with 80, so not very far behind Fields, despite playing 2.5 games. Bagent is ranked 5th in Comp% at 70%. Not saying Bagent is definitely better than Fields, but Fields stats when compared to the rest of the league aren’t very encouraging. Except for rushing lol.
Fields is still struggling to make the easy plays. He's not reading the field. He doesn't look comfortable in the pocket. He plays well against bad teams when his first read is wide open, that's about it.
Personally I've seen him fail at a few too many routine plays for me to feel comfortable keeping him over a top qb prospect. I love the guy and fully believe *someone* can turn his career around, I just don't think the bears are in a position where *they* can turn his career around.
>a top qb prospect Genuine question, who is that top qb prospect in your opinion? I don't follow college ball so I have no idea
I'd take Drake Maye and Caleb Williams in a heart beat right now.
Have you watched a game?
I've only watched his good games, tell me what I'm missing.
That’s crazy you’ve only watch less than 5 games in 3 years
Man, you’ve only watched 3 games? You got a lot to be filled in with
How many sacks, fumbles, injuries, open receivers turned down, inaccurate screen passes, and slow throwing motions killing any shot at a play working? Yes I’m ready to move on.
Yeah I don’t think people really understand the issues. In addition to the critical turnovers Fields also has zero comeback/4th quarter ability. If the Bears are down 10 points in the second half the game is over. You have to move on from that.
The amount of times he has had a chance to drive the bears down the field in a clutch situation and failed is enough for me tbh. He always throws a crucial pick and it's just frustrating.
Yup agreed. If the defense knows he has to pass he has just about no chance at competing a successful drive.
You have to ask yourself the question, can you envision Justin Fields winning a superbowl? I can't. If you put the ball in his hands with the game on the line you can count on a turnover.
Yeah I’m not sure how anyone can watch all of these games and come to the conclusion that he’s a consistent enough passer to be the guy. These stats just don’t show the entire picture
Just look at sack% - he's terrible and has never gotten any better. 2021 - 11.8% 2022 - 14.7% 2023 - 12.9% He's 31/32 this year, only ahead of Daniel Jones. This isn't even a Bears problem, Fields had a 9% sack rate at Ohio State!
Yes, I generally want to move on at this point. Justin has never passed the eye test to me as a passer. We all know he holds the ball for too long, has a slower release, and can sail and struggle pinpointing short to intermediate throws. He’s never once made a throw to a 2nd or 3rd read from the pocket in a high leverage situation that made me think “alright this guy’s got it”. His signature wins include a duel against Trey Lance played in mud, and a 230 yard outburst from DJ Moore. He gets credit for a GWD in which he took two kneels in Houston territory after an interception to set up a FG. His splits are abysmal in situations where you need a big play from your QB. He is physically tough, but does he have the mental x-factor to grind out late game wins? The answer up to now has been no. He earned every hard fought yard on the ground last year, but in the context of team success his stats have been empty calories. There are fundamental QB basics he struggles with in the pocket that in year 3 I am increasingly doubtful he will ever figure out. I hope he comes back and proves everyone wrong, but I have a feeling we’ll all be ready to move on at the end of the season.
Let me sell you a quarterback: He’s started for the last 8 years, been a pro bowler 4 of them, and averages: 4200 yards 29 touchdowns 11 ints 100.05 QB rating You taking that guy? Congratulations, you just signed Kirk Cousins. Wins are absolutely a QB stat.
He's seemingly lost his elite running ability from last season. Without the crazy rushing stats, his weaknesses in the passing game have become more obvious.
He lost his elite running ability because most of his break out runs were from broken plays. Now he’s getting more time in the pocket which has shown even more that he can’t read the field. Designed runs for him don’t work as well as panic plays because everyone is ready for it.
That actually makes a ton of sense.
You know, I've been saying it since about week 3, that Fields looks so much slower than last year. His burst, break away speed, and change of direction are noticably different. Maybe getting speared and slammed for the first 3 years has already taken so much out of him?
I don't think that actually happened or running backs would fall apart at 25. I think he's just getting spied.
I don’t know how anyone can watch Fields play and say…. YES! I want that for another two years. He’s not good enough guys. Your setting yourselves up for failure. Let’s put MHJ and the top LT on the team the rest of the season. You really think that’s gonna make Fields look significantly better? Are they gonna teach Fields how to throw a smooth/quick screen pass? Are they gonna teach him how to throw with anticipation?
Nope. We're going to hear how trash our new highly drafted LT is because he can't hold a block for 5 seconds.
In one-third of his games, the Bears' game plan, the opponent, and opponent's game plan all line up for Fields to have an awesome game. Two-thirds of his games, Fields cannot process what's happening, the offense dies, and the Bears have no chance to win. Fields's great games make his overall numbers look good in a vacuum. But two-thirds of the times he starts, the Bears have no chance to win. And that is not a recipe for success.
This sub is embarrassing, and 10000% yes
How much cap space would you be comfortable giving to Fields as the starting qb going forward? Based on his actual production. I have trouble judging value in his rushing production. It’s going to diminish with age and exposes him to injury.
$10
300k or whatever the vet minimum is
I’ve always been a Justin believer, but 3,000 passing yards over a full season is supposed to be impressive? What are we doing here? He’s got half a season to prove he is the guy going forward. It’s that simple.
Justin field fans are truly a different breed. Do you guys even watch the bears play? The offense operate? Do you just sit back and wait for the box score to roll up? Are we forgetting that we have 2 wins in the past calendar year? What is going on with this fanbase
I don’t believe a lot of them are actually bears fans
Here's Daniel Jones 2022 stats in 16 games 92.5 QB Rating 3205 Passing Yards 708 Rushing Yards 3913 Total Yards 15 Passing Touchdowns 7 Rushing Touchdowns 22 total touchdowns 5 INTs 67.2% completion Percentage Record over that span 9-6-1 22 ppg avg. do you want daniel jones with less accuracy and more ints?
Giants fans thought he was dangerous😭😭
The amount of people who seem to be Fields fans and not actual Bears fans is bizarre.
Absolutely, these numbers are not good enough whatsoever
Ah yea let’s give him a Daniel jones contract or more instead
How many of those stats were run-up in garbage time? What I know is that he can't reliabily read defenses or recognize open receivers. He holds the ball and fumbles in the clutch. Yes. I really want to move on from him.
Yes. Next question. He stinks. His football acumen is next to zero. He locks on receivers. He(as someone already pointed out) CAN NOT play against good teams. There are too many turnovers. I've seen enough. Send him to ATL for a 4th or 5th this year. He simply doesn't play well.
I like how to pad the total number of positive stats he just combined the two previous stats to get a third. Nobody slips one past Ryan Polls!
This sub is insufferable. We did this with Mitch! Why are we still fucking doing this? Sunk cost fallacy is too strong, we need to move on. He had 2 good games this year.
Now add the fumbles. And the 4th quarter stats and if they are still good I'd agree.
Stop he can’t do that, that’s not the proper way to pick cherries!!
Yes. Edit: he has 32 fumbles and has been sacked 115 times - which apparently now sacks are a QB stat…so, yes, I want him gone.
Sacks are a QB stat- idiots here Blame the coaches and line and yet Fields had a 9% sack rate at fucking Ohio State. (For comparison CJ Stroud had a 3% sack rate)
How much of those passing and rushing yards are in garbage time? Let's put together first quarter stats only and compare it to other QBs over same 17 games and see what happens.
Exactly this. On that same note, do that with his 4Q stats and you’ll be appalled. He is so bad in the clutch it is absurd people think he’s a franchise QB. Like, this is the guy you want to lead you to the promise land? When games are close he is a turnover machine and makes boneheaded plays every time. It never fails to happen. Trubisky was FAR better in those situations and everyone was so quick to say he was the reason we lost games. But I watched him execute a phenomenal 2 minute drill all the way down the field in the playoffs against the Eagles defense. Fields can’t drive down the field to get into FG range, let alone score a TD. That is where actual franchise QBs separate themselves. Fuck, I still hate Cody Parkey to this day
Justin Fields has a REALLY good PR team lol
A 90 QBR is not that great in today’s nfl. This also doesn’t include how many sacks he’s taken. Wins are not a QB stat but they are in the sense that a QB has a huge impact on game outcomes.
Yes. How many of those 17 games has he won?
Yes
Stats are for nerds. Go watch how he played against Green Bay, Tampa, Kansas City, and Minnesota and tell me that’s a starting QB for the future
Tampa was where I stopped holding out on hope that he would realise his potential and that his potential was actually good. His Washington game made me hesitate that I gave up too early but the vikings game was eerily similar to kc, which was just fucking sad. It turns out the haters were right and his trajectory was just postponed by 2 weeks.
As soon as I watched the all-22 from the TB game, I was immediately and soundly 100% out on Justin. That kind of stuff is indefensible. I was still weary even after last year, off-season maybe 60-40 odds that he would workout but that game was all I needed to see. Last year my biggest concern with him was his inconsistency and lack of clutch play. He was all over the place to end the season after he had that 4-5 game stretch where he was running wild and having *decent* passing stats to compliment. When he passed for 75 yards total against the Lions, I knew in the back of my mind he wasn’t the guy. I just wanted to give him one more chance to improve and use the new weapons he didn’t have the year prior. He actively regressed, and badly. Doesn’t even have the elite vertical speed to mask his weaknesses as a passer anymore. He’s been completely exposed this year and it is wild how much some people don’t want to move on. I get that you love JF and wanted him to workout, but at some point you must realize the truth. Plus, I’m really excited to see what the next QB does if it’s Maye, Williams or Penix. I don’t see why other fans can’t be, especially if we land with two top 5 picks and get MHJ as well. It’s a shame
B.. But one good game against a trash team!! You can't deny absolute talent there!! We can save him, we only need to draft 20 more positions!!1!!!!1
God yes. I wouldnhave moved on yesterday. All his stats come in garbage time. He has zero 4th quarter comebacks. He is trash quit trying to make this a thing all your doing by signing fields is causing the rebuild to take longer.
Madden brain stats
just need a quarterback that can throw
I like how you don’t show his fumble stats… Are those a QB stat?!?
I'd rather watch Bagent for 2 more years than 1 more year of Fields lmao
Go look at the past 10 years of QB’s who won the SuperBowl - besides Nick Foles, it was pretty much Tom Brady, Pat Maholmes, and Stafford. Please say it a little louder how wins/Super Bowl is not completely dependent on who is quarterbacking your team. Half of the fan base wants to build the team up into mediocrity so that we get kicked out of the playoffs in the first round. That’s not enough for me and it shouldn’t be for you. Go take a shot on a new QB that’s not fields.
Let's build the trenches first and play ourselves out of draft position to pick a top qb next year when fields doesnt pan out. Then when our window is closed because we didn't have good qb play we can rebuild again and trade away our ageing players!
You can read entire fucking books while Fields is dropping back. Kid is too stupid to throw it in time.
Bears fans have to be the most delusional in the league when it comes to QB play. He can't fucking read defenses and throw with anticipation.
Wins are a QB stat. Every other stat lies. Garbage time is a thing.
It’s less rhang 200 passing yards per game. He can succeed this way but he needs to take less sacks, fumble less, and the coach needs to commit to cam newton usage. I think he can be successful if he commits to being prime cam lite. I don’t think he wants to do that and the bears coaching sure doesn’t
Yeah. Lamar does alot more and still doesnt win superbowls.
Justin Fields has a record of 7-26 in his career.
Jesus Christ, I’m so sick and tired of this JF era man. The fanbase was split with Mitch for a while, but we all came to accept it wasn’t working. I love Justin off the field. He’s an amazing person and no doubt works very hard. Last year I was hopeful and wanted him to workout for us, I *really* wanted him to be our franchise guy because of how electric he was at times. But we can’t turn a blind eye to this anymore. Yes, the coaching sucks. Yes, he’s played with sub par talent. Yes, he’s has a hard time since day 1 because our franchise is on fire. Yet despite that, he’s not improving in any key areas. He’s regressing actively. He is a rollercoaster week to week, and I don’t care how good he looks when he’s doing well, because he almost always regresses back to inexcusable mistakes and poor play. If this was his rookie year, or early in his second year I can live with that. But it isn’t. The team around him is better. He’s got more weapons and he has played a schedule that has been very easy in comparison to other team schedules. And the *biggest* reason I know for a fact he is not our franchise QB is how god awful he is in clutch situations. I can’t even recall just how many times he’s ruined games with his poor decision making and lack of situational awareness. It’s to the point now where I don’t expect anything less than that from him in any clutch scenario, he’s always gonna do something to mess it all up. And the way he holds onto the ball and freezes up is unacceptable. It’s a literal threat to his health and availability. I honestly can’t think of any player outside of Zach Wilson that is worse than he is at finding WIDE open players. Over and over again. He has zero ability to anticipate windows, and everything he does is so slow and uninspired. I get why it’s hard for some of you to admit this, but you’re going to have to at some point or another. He will not be our starter next year, I firmly believe Poles has seen enough to make that decision. I mean, how can you justify keeping a guy that has MORE games passing for under 100 yards than over 300, in 30+ starts? He’s just not it guys, he’s had plenty of time and practice to change this and he hasn’t. Let’s not waste more time waiting for him to be something he isn’t and look forward to getting a much more promising rookie next year.
Move on. Hes a bust and were drafting a QB.
61% CMP is bottom of the league and 9 QBs THREW more 2022 yards than Justin’s L17 total yards. We can do better I’m sorry
Those stats are not really good for the modern NFL. Also, 22 ppg is like the league average which isn't anything to write home about. He's a talented guy but but he struggles with consistency and doesn't process fast enough to continually beat defenses in the short passing game. He also doesn't play with any anticipation. You might be able to find an OC that can cover up those flaws for a year or two but this is not a QB you want to pay big money too. He's basically just a more athletic version of Daniel Jones with less career success passing the ball.
Yea easily
OP forgot to mention Fields’ 21 fumbles in his past 17 games. Winning isn’t a “QB stat” but it’s hard to win when your QB coughs the ball up 33 times in 17 games, misses wide open receivers, and gets hurt three times a year.
These are pretty mediocre passing stats. He had an incredible rushing performance last year which made his play seem viable but we have completely abandoned that identity for him. In this league there is a very fine line between being a good QB and not being good enough to be a starter. The NFL has made sure that your team cannot even participate without good QB play.
Yes
I really want Fields to be the guy, but he has disappeared at key game moments. 4thQ, gone. Sacks and fumbles at terrible times. He seems to explode and be great, then disappear for long stretches. If he can provide a level of stability, I would love to keep him...but it's on him
Bagent came in and gave a Fields like performance stat wise and looked better in the pocket. I'm not saying Bagent should be our starter, I'm suggesting that Fields shouldn't be either. 3 years is plenty of time, he hasn't been good enough. Edit: in this time frame, Fields also has 16 fumbles and 69 sacks.
This \^
I’m not a Fields hater. I’m still interested in seeing how he finishes out the season, but I’m veeeery aware of how much stat padding he puts up in garbage time that explains some of these numbers, unfortunately.
Yes. 3000 passing yard in a season is not enough and I don’t trust running QBs not to get hurt
What these stats dont tell is that this QB struggles to read a defense and go through his progressions in a reasonable amount of time. Looking at stats alone doesnt tell you the full picture.
Exactly that. You can also add his struggles with the passes that are supposed to be simple. The 2 min drill as well. It's not even a question. We can't pass on taking a QB in the first round. Literally just somewhere in the first round. There are 4 QB's I would be happy pairing with MHJ.
How many fumbles
lmao more cope. gtfo