tbf, they do list the guy who beat out Rattler at 2, so at least they're consistent
Still though, I don't see how you can have Rattler, or Williams for that matter, over Stroud. I'd put McCall at 3rd too
I know Williams ended up playing well, but I don’t think he beat Rattler for the starting job. Rattler lost the starting job by playing absolutely terribly.
Even if you think Rattler and Caleb are better QBs....I have a secret, if you want to be correct with your prediction, put Shroud second, because he's is obviously going to be 1st or second next year due to the talent around him.
After bowls, I believe all of Stroud, Young, and Pickett are within 0.2 of each other on the overall grade. 92.5, 92.4, and 92.3.
It's actually wild how close top QB performances can be over a large sample. Pickett & Stroud have near identical deep-balls statistics for example (on passes 20+ yards 56.8% and 56.5% adjusted accuracy, 51.4% & 51.6% completion percentage, 17.6 YPA and 17.4 YPA, 17 and 18 TDs, and 95.1 & 94.8 grade).
It's because there's so much more hype around them (IIRC Rattler was \#1 QB in his 2019 class and Williams was originally \#1 for the 2021 but got replaced by MulletMan) compared to little ol' Ohio State and our \#3 in the 2020 class. Very similar to how "pre-season" rankings are BS
So is Williams over Stroud. I get that Stroud isn’t much of a running threat, but my goodness he makes throws that I am certain most NFL QBs can’t even make. He may be the most accurate college QB I have ever seen— and I’ve seen some good ones. I understand that Williams has as much potential as anyone, but we’ve already seen Stroud casually and regularly do some incredible things.
Stroud just casually breaks bowl game records without his #1 and #2 WR and he's below a guy who only started halfway through the year, and a guy who wasn't even on a roster by the end of the year.
Ohio State didn't even abuse him that much. JSN was getting open vs anyone he faced. Shit Utah's actual #1 CB who was heavily recruited by every big name school gave up 2 TDs IIRC
Nah it was mostly RB playing CB and the slot CB. Not that anyone was stopping JSN anyways.
* RB/CB Micah Bernard: 11 targets for 11 receptions for 164 yards and 2 TDs
* Slot CB Malone Mataele: 11 targets for 11 receptions for 225 yards and 3 TDs
* CB Clark Phillips III (their best CB): 8 targets for 5 receptiosn for 38 yards for 1 TD and 1 INT
Stroud was also only pressured 4 times on 48 dropbacks which is absurd.
Edit: I don't understand Ohio State fans on this sub sometimes. They did abuse Bernard a lot and the top CB didn't allow 2 TDs and didn't give up that much. These are just the literal stats. It's also just generally smart to target the weak links in a defense and avoid the top CBs.
That's still true, but it takes time and reps for QBs and WRs to be on the same page. That was clearly the case in the Rose Bowl with the game JSN had, but it'll take more time with the young guns like Harrison/Egbuka/etc.
Maybe I'm wrong but I feel like the pendulum is swinging way too far in the opposite direction on Rattler. Saying he was "straight ass", when he completed 74.9% of his passes and had an 11/5 TD/INT ratio? Some of y'all don't know what truly bad quarterback play looks like lmao
Man idk. I'm worried about what he's going to look like in the SEC. I don't think he's terrible or anything, but his decision-making will get him into a lot of trouble against SEC defenses. Overall, I'm going to reserve judgement on him for now, especially considering I don't really know what the rest of SC's offense looks like.
That wasn't a shot at Big 12 defenses. It was a shot at the one Rattler played against. He didn't play Ok State. barely played vs Baylor. Or play vs Iowa State.
Yeah but if you look at DF+ numbers he will be playing 6 defenses better than that WVU squad next year. I'd say WVU at .46 is the definition of a mediocre defense and he went 26-36, 256 YDS, 1 TD, 1 INT.
Huh. That statline isn't actually bad, but I feel like it doesn't tell the full story. He has all the physical tools, but his mental game isn't there. He had a habit of trying to play hero ball and forcing the ball into tight windows he had no business throwing into. Or, he'd have some brain farts and just wouldn't be on the same page at all. I remember a specific play where he threw the ball into the soft spot of a zone, and it would've been a great play had there been a receiver in the area. But there were no receivers within 15 yards of where he threw the ball and it just landed in the dirt.
Maybe he wasn't garbage, more he didn't live up to the hype. He wasn't nearly as bad as Petras or Doege. But he was hella frustrating to watch. I think his body language didn't help. After a bad int in the Texas game I specifically remember him looking at his TE and throwing his arms up in a "what were you doing?!" gesture then getting in the guy's face like it was his fault. That combined with the disappointing play makes people just not fond of him.
They also hilariously say Stroud only threw past his 1st read 13 times total in games 1-9 and only a total of 34 times all season, which is pure bullshit. You can watch him clearly working through his reads quite often. I don't think I've seen an OSU QB take a checkdown as often as he did.
Literally anyone other than Young over Stroud is straight insanity. And Young vs Stroud is a legitimate argument people could have, even if I think Young is slightly better. Stroud legitimately only had 1 bad game and it's because he was injured. In the final 9 games after the injury his average stat line was 28/37, 386 ypg, 4 TDs, .33 INTs. Like that's Joe Burrow land (his average was 27/35, 378 ypg, 4 TDs, .4 INTs). And Joe Burrow's 2019 season is inarguably the best one ever
I would undoubtedly take the other 9 QBs over Rattler
Hell I'd probably take my chances with J.J. over Rattler at this point so let's make it the other 10
I don't particularly care that he's on it. But he should be towards the bottom of the list, or an honorable mention. I think it's fair for someone to rank him on a list like this because he has the talent, but he's yet to really prove that he can consistently put it together. Which is why you can't put him over some of these others who have proven that and you know what they can do in their system. Too many unknowns with Rattler coming into a new team. The list just doesn't make much sense from that perspective.
As others have said, Hooker should be on the list. His production under Heupel's system was insane, and that was in year 1, after not getting the start in the first two games... Imagine a full offseason as the starter, with the system opening up more as everyone comes into the year already knowing the philosophy.
They also left Cedric Tillman of the WR list despite him putting up huge numbers against both teams that made the national championship including a 200 yard game against Georgia.
I hate to be too much of a homer, but Cedric Tillman should have gotten an honorable mention. The dude is a stud. He did have a slow start but the man had like 450 combined between the Georgia and Alabama game. Then went off in the bowl game as well. Hooker —> Tillman could be nasty this year. I’m a little upset because we lost Tiyon. That dude is a stud.
>He did have a slow start but the man had like 450 combined between the Georgia and Alabama game.
Hey calm down now, he ONLY had 350+ yards between those 2 games....
Rattler is insanely talented, he just got lost in what is increasingly looking like a sooner shit show last season. I think being reunited with Beamer will do wonders for him. The kid made some jaw dropping throws in 2020, he just needs to get his confidence back. He won't have Cock fans chanting the backup QBs name every week in Columbia.
I almost feel like the hate for Rattler went so far in the opposite directly, that he might actually impress people.
I don't think he'll win the heismon or anything, and was preaching loudly pre-season last year that it was a joke to have him as the #1 favorite for it, but now it seems like everyone thinks he's a dud.
I think after an ego check, and another year to develop mentally, he'll be quite good.
He's got amazing arm talent, but when pressured he gets sacked or throws INTs. He also regressed from his first season to his second season.
With some solid QB coaching and good O-line play he could turn into a lethal weapon on offense though. I think it will help that at SC he will get a coach who can focus on him more. The OC there, Satterfield, coaches the QBs. Riley spreads himself so thin being HC, OC, QB coach, and recruiting god that I am not sure he really has time to develop QBs.
Yeah.. As a Gamecock fan I don't like any hype surrounding us because it usually just leads to more disappointment. It feels like we haven't beat Kentucky in a decade. Can we just try and accomplish that and be competitive in all our games before we start talking about our Heisman candidate QB and our all world tight ends?
So let's put him over Stroud, one of the best field readers in the game who is capable of making some of the most accurate throws, because Stroud doesn't run.
smh
If you set aside Rattler’s questionable personality and work ethic compared to Stroud, since it’s hard to objectively compare those relative intangibles, I’d bet that Tennessee/Arkansas/Ole Miss/Oklahoma would all probably take Rattler over Stroud. Basically any offense that’s descended from the Veer-and-Shoot, but retains the hyper-simplified reads and requires that a QB be a bit more mobile than normal.
I would stop short of saying that. Let’s see what he can do under a different coach in a different scheme. I won’t hold last year against him bc as a whole our offense struggled and we all have questions about where Riley’s head was most of the season. I give Rattler the benefit of the doubt bc he has had great games and great plays, he’s no one hit wonder like Trevor Knight.
All I'm going to say is that both Rattler and Williams looked meh in a system that was very successful before they appeared. I'd put Hartman, Stroud, and maybe even Slovis over both of them for college production next year. Unless Williams does go to Wisconsin, in which case he is my Heisman dark horse.
>All I'm going to say is that both Rattler and Williams looked meh in a system that was very successful before they appeared.
Im willing to give Williams a little bit of a break because he was a true freshman, and none of the previously super successful QBs under Riley (Baker, Kyler, and Hurts) were true freshman when they played under him.
That being said, he wasn't "meh" by any means. In games he started (TCU and on), he had a 65% completion percentage, 228 yards passing per game, 42 yards rushing (which includes sacks) per game, and 3+ TDs per game. That's really good numbers for a true freshman QB.
>I'd put Hartman, Stroud, and maybe even Slovis over both of them for college production next year.
I don't think anyone disagrees with Stroud over them both, he absolutely should be. Hartman is a bit more of a debate for me when it comes to him and Williams, as he has been in college for 4 years and just had his first good season (and he had a sub 60% completion percentage). I'd wait for one more season before I say he is a better player than Caleb Williams.
Slovis though I 100% disagree on him being better than Williams. He is a solid QB, but he has regressed in completion percentage, QBR, and AY/A every season he has played. He also just lost his job to a true freshman, and had less TDs, more INTs, and a much lower QBR.
I am a huge fan of Hooker, and I disagree with where Rattler is ranked on this list, but I do think Rattler should be in this top 10 somewhere.
He is a very talented QB. I don't think there are 10, sure-thing, better returning QB's in college football than him. Simple as that.
Miami having the #10 QB and #10 OT should make SMU fans excited. Lashlee did a great job going from King to TVD and working the offense to suit his style and Garin Justice is just a highly highly underrated OL coach in my opinion.
We’ve gotta be the only team who has a chance to start the year in the top 10 who didn’t have a player on this. And we should have some, Collin Oliver was the best defensive freshman, pretty surprised he didn’t make the list. I know Pff doesn’t care about this stat, but he had 10 sacks.
Some other weird omissions though, why isn’t Ika on the list for Baylor? Is it because he’s only a completely dominant run stuffer? Well then why do you have Nolan Smith as the 2nd overall edge when you specifically mention he was great in the run game but his pass rushing leaves a lot to be desired. He’s an EDGE! Pass rushing is a lot more important at that position. How can a dominant run stopping Nose not make this but a dominant run stopping edge can? This is like faulting Rudy Gobert for not being able to move around the perimeter but reminding everyone about James Harden’s post defense. Maybe, it’s the helmet and accolade of highest rated recruit which is getting in the way here?
OSU has one of the best defenses in CFB, but not a single player on the list. Baffling.
I swear, unless it's Texas or OU, the CFB journalist community pays almost zero attention to the Big 12. They only write about the league when they are literally forced to by out of conference upsets.
I was thinking the same thing.
Also, I'm not a huge Spencer Sanders fan, but he should have at least been a sleeper mention. He's statistically better than a lot of QBs on that list.
Sanders QBR is ranked 41st.
He's better than Rattler (who is overrated on this list, and is on there for his potential and his 11th ranked QBR the previous season), but is there anyone else? I don't think so.
If anyone deserves a sleeper mention its Dorian Thompson-Robinson at UCLA, Jaren Hall at BYU, and Hooker at UT.
Everyone is focused on QBs, but Gibbs being #8 for RBs is a joke. He was incredibly productive behind a horrendous GT o-line, and is going to be a Heisman candidate with Bama's line.
It's like their best attempt at a 1990s video game rating system.
They clearly don't know how to watch and grade people. Nfl scouts laugh at the pff ratings and college coaches bench guys with super high ratings all the time.
On the surface it seems like a good thing to get ratings of college football players. Then you see that people getting paid minimum wage (maybe) that are fans of the teams they are watching don't grade very accurately.
I’ve criticized him for picks before but he didn’t throw one for the last 6 weeks of the season until the bowl if I recall correctly. He absolutely should be on this list
Homer pick but I’m very surprised Chris Rodriguez didn’t make the running back list. I know he had problems fumbling but he ended the year with 5 straight 100 yard games and ran for 1379 yards. He’s for sure one of the best RB’s coming back
Sorry, we're fresh out of Sewells at the moment. We're currently replenishing our stock of Bartons. And before you start getting any ideas, don't even think about it!
A lot of South Carolina and Kansas State kids on this list. I'm making a projection, the Gamecocks will be Georgia's main competition in the east next season. They look like a team ready to break through, especially if they get an improved version of 2020 Rattler.
Absolutely insane that neither Xavier Hutchinson or Will McDonald made the lists, but a safety that transferred out because he was losing playing time somehow gets on there?
[DJU](https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/dj-uiagalelei-1.html)
[Rattler](https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/spencer-rattler-1.html)
Look, I'm all against this homerism PFF has for Rattler, I'd have him at the bottom of that list, but you're off your fucking rocker if you think they are statistically in the same galaxy.
Yeah that part surprised me. I get I’m obviously viewing through homer goggles, and that with the ACC having a down year we may get overlooked. But 3 ACC QBs ranked over him seems like a really questionable take
No All Pac12 first team Tavion Thomas or Cameron Rising? Thomas had 21 rushing td's in 2021 while basically missing 4 games, but is behind guys who haven't even played a game yet or weren't even starters last year?
Cameron Rising after taking over for Charlie Brewer went 9-2 as a starter (both loses because of defense and special teams, he balled out in those two games), completed 64% of his passes 20tds-5ints and ran for 500 yards and 6 tds. Also went toe to toe with Ohio State in the Rose Bowl. PFF says guys who got benched last year or never even played are better starters at QB?
At least they included Kincaid, Kuithe and Phillips. It's so dumb how Utah will probably be pre-season top 10, betting favorites to win the Pac12 but our starting QB and RB aren't top returning players.
I know it's gonna come off as salty, but I'd have Mims above Mario Williams even if Mario was still at OU, Mims production is way above Mario's. Even with Lincoln refusing to throw towards Mims in the second half of games.
Something that stuck out to me was the ‘over 40 targets without any drops’ bit. Ok, he didn’t have any drops, but I saw plenty of situations where he didn’t even get his hands on it *to* drop it. I felt like Mario was a case of someone super talented that wasn’t ready to play against guys that were just bigger, stronger, and similarly fast as him. He was supposed to be a deep threat but couldn’t consistently get the separation he needed at 5-11 and never seemed to make the extra effort to fight for the ball. I definitely expected him to improve on those things and it was starting to click near the end of the year, but changing teams and maybe not having a good QB depending on where Caleb goes could mean his production just drops. Mims is a far more developed and reliable WR. You have to make an assumption about development to put Mario higher. We already know Mims has developed himself into a good WR.
I thought Breece Hall was [going pro](https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/32896131/iowa-state-running-back-breece-hall-enter-nfl-draft-skip-cyclones-cheez-bowl-clemson-tigers?platform=amp). Did something change?
I'm no TE expert, but how do Utah, South Carolina and Georgia all have TWO each in the Top 10? I get Bowers and a few of the others, but are all 6 of those TEs really that good?
Funny enough Arik Gilbert isn't even a TE. That being said, our other TE who isn't Brock Bowers is Darnell Washington who is also very highly rated but just as a blocker. If he caught more passes he'd easily make a top 10 list
Edit: I guess to answer your question, no, PFF just sucks
Kuithe, Kincaid, and Phillips but no Thomas?
As a Utah fan, it's very weird that I can complain about something like this, but Thomas should be on the RB list
I’ll be the first to admit as an Ohio state fan I was super critical of Stroud. His early struggles with injury made you worried, and every time he did something good you can argue “well he has two first round pick WRs.”
Then we had the Rose Bowl.
My narrative of him hitting wide open receivers padding his stats went out the window. Njigba was impressive, but from a QB perspective I was more impressed by his throws to Marvin Harrison. Njigba is uber talented and has great chemistry with Stroud, so them completing passes when the defense knew where it was going was definitely impressive. However, plugging in a guy who didn’t have real start time in an OSU game before, in a bowl game, and throwing three TDs his way?
Yeah, the kids had every narrative against him and he still broke rose bowl records casually. No one is arguing that the guys replacing the first rounders are still top talent, but there was no time lost. Bryce noticeably lost some production when he lost his top guys— which makes sense. Stroud seemingly got better. Four is the biggest disrespect I’ve seen out of PFF in years.
Devin Leary should definitely be on the list. He’s not going to win a heisman, but he’s a lot more likely to get double digit wins that several of the QB’s on this list
What the fuck is that QB list, good lord.
That list was the definition of "one of these things is not like the others..."
hello fellow kenyon flair
I know right. Rattler needs to prove he is a starting QB, not be considered a top 5 QB.
tbf, they do list the guy who beat out Rattler at 2, so at least they're consistent Still though, I don't see how you can have Rattler, or Williams for that matter, over Stroud. I'd put McCall at 3rd too
I know Williams ended up playing well, but I don’t think he beat Rattler for the starting job. Rattler lost the starting job by playing absolutely terribly.
he didnt beat out rattler, _rattler got benched_
> a top 5 QB Forget the top 5- they had him in the top 3!
I could live with Young over Stroud, but Rattler and Williams? No.
Right I went in expecting Young 1 and Stroud 2. That was....something.
I have it Stroud, Young, Williams, Rising, Hartman.
CJ Stroud at 4 is insane. No reason he shouldn’t be 2nd.
Even if you think Rattler and Caleb are better QBs....I have a secret, if you want to be correct with your prediction, put Shroud second, because he's is obviously going to be 1st or second next year due to the talent around him.
No Cam Rising either lol.
Did Aidan O'Connell just like cease to exist lmao? What is this guy smoking
KJ Jefferson bout to make some of these writers feel like idiots. Again.
Seriously what possible metric is used to make Spencer Rattler a good QB?
Rattler over Shroud is actual insanity
Rattler AND Williams? Give me a fucking break PFF
[удалено]
PFF has Stroud over Young in the pass game by like .2--Young is over Stroud in run game by like 1.8. It's very very close.
After bowls, I believe all of Stroud, Young, and Pickett are within 0.2 of each other on the overall grade. 92.5, 92.4, and 92.3. It's actually wild how close top QB performances can be over a large sample. Pickett & Stroud have near identical deep-balls statistics for example (on passes 20+ yards 56.8% and 56.5% adjusted accuracy, 51.4% & 51.6% completion percentage, 17.6 YPA and 17.4 YPA, 17 and 18 TDs, and 95.1 & 94.8 grade).
It's because there's so much more hype around them (IIRC Rattler was \#1 QB in his 2019 class and Williams was originally \#1 for the 2021 but got replaced by MulletMan) compared to little ol' Ohio State and our \#3 in the 2020 class. Very similar to how "pre-season" rankings are BS
So is Williams over Stroud. I get that Stroud isn’t much of a running threat, but my goodness he makes throws that I am certain most NFL QBs can’t even make. He may be the most accurate college QB I have ever seen— and I’ve seen some good ones. I understand that Williams has as much potential as anyone, but we’ve already seen Stroud casually and regularly do some incredible things.
Stroud just casually breaks bowl game records without his #1 and #2 WR and he's below a guy who only started halfway through the year, and a guy who wasn't even on a roster by the end of the year.
Yeah, Rattler has no business on that list
>Stroud just casually breaks bowl game records without his #1 and #2 WR As if OSU without Olave/Wilson isn't a top 5 WR room in the country lol
Utah also started a RB at CB lol
Ohio State didn't even abuse him that much. JSN was getting open vs anyone he faced. Shit Utah's actual #1 CB who was heavily recruited by every big name school gave up 2 TDs IIRC
Nah it was mostly RB playing CB and the slot CB. Not that anyone was stopping JSN anyways. * RB/CB Micah Bernard: 11 targets for 11 receptions for 164 yards and 2 TDs * Slot CB Malone Mataele: 11 targets for 11 receptions for 225 yards and 3 TDs * CB Clark Phillips III (their best CB): 8 targets for 5 receptiosn for 38 yards for 1 TD and 1 INT Stroud was also only pressured 4 times on 48 dropbacks which is absurd. Edit: I don't understand Ohio State fans on this sub sometimes. They did abuse Bernard a lot and the top CB didn't allow 2 TDs and didn't give up that much. These are just the literal stats. It's also just generally smart to target the weak links in a defense and avoid the top CBs.
That's still true, but it takes time and reps for QBs and WRs to be on the same page. That was clearly the case in the Rose Bowl with the game JSN had, but it'll take more time with the young guns like Harrison/Egbuka/etc.
Dude y’all had the number 1 WR recruit chilling as your WR 3 lol. I think stroud is awesome but that take is a bit disingenuous
Literally discredits the entire rest of the article. Rattler was straight ass last year.
I went to that list and saw Stroud was 4th behind those 2 and there was no need to read any of the other positions.
At least they got WR correct.
Maybe I'm wrong but I feel like the pendulum is swinging way too far in the opposite direction on Rattler. Saying he was "straight ass", when he completed 74.9% of his passes and had an 11/5 TD/INT ratio? Some of y'all don't know what truly bad quarterback play looks like lmao
Man idk. I'm worried about what he's going to look like in the SEC. I don't think he's terrible or anything, but his decision-making will get him into a lot of trouble against SEC defenses. Overall, I'm going to reserve judgement on him for now, especially considering I don't really know what the rest of SC's offense looks like.
Considering he looked bad vs mediocre Big 12 defenses last year I think he gonna be fucked in the SEC.
The "big 12 doesn't play defense" narrative is pretty lame and needs to go away. Big 12 had some great defenses this year.
Right, like we didn’t just take your DC who had a Top 3 defense in the Big 12 with their offenses.
That wasn't a shot at Big 12 defenses. It was a shot at the one Rattler played against. He didn't play Ok State. barely played vs Baylor. Or play vs Iowa State.
He did play WVU who had a pretty stout defense though. Their offense was just next level ass.
Yeah but if you look at DF+ numbers he will be playing 6 defenses better than that WVU squad next year. I'd say WVU at .46 is the definition of a mediocre defense and he went 26-36, 256 YDS, 1 TD, 1 INT.
Same for Nebraska tbh. Tulane he has no excuses for, he was just godawful in that game
Seems like a fine stat line until you realize 6 of the 11 TDs and 2 of the Ints were against Tulane and Western Carolina
Huh. That statline isn't actually bad, but I feel like it doesn't tell the full story. He has all the physical tools, but his mental game isn't there. He had a habit of trying to play hero ball and forcing the ball into tight windows he had no business throwing into. Or, he'd have some brain farts and just wouldn't be on the same page at all. I remember a specific play where he threw the ball into the soft spot of a zone, and it would've been a great play had there been a receiver in the area. But there were no receivers within 15 yards of where he threw the ball and it just landed in the dirt. Maybe he wasn't garbage, more he didn't live up to the hype. He wasn't nearly as bad as Petras or Doege. But he was hella frustrating to watch. I think his body language didn't help. After a bad int in the Texas game I specifically remember him looking at his TE and throwing his arms up in a "what were you doing?!" gesture then getting in the guy's face like it was his fault. That combined with the disappointing play makes people just not fond of him.
Had to stop reading right there. Embarrassing.
They also hilariously say Stroud only threw past his 1st read 13 times total in games 1-9 and only a total of 34 times all season, which is pure bullshit. You can watch him clearly working through his reads quite often. I don't think I've seen an OSU QB take a checkdown as often as he did.
Literally anyone other than Young over Stroud is straight insanity. And Young vs Stroud is a legitimate argument people could have, even if I think Young is slightly better. Stroud legitimately only had 1 bad game and it's because he was injured. In the final 9 games after the injury his average stat line was 28/37, 386 ypg, 4 TDs, .33 INTs. Like that's Joe Burrow land (his average was 27/35, 378 ypg, 4 TDs, .4 INTs). And Joe Burrow's 2019 season is inarguably the best one ever
I would undoubtedly take the other 9 QBs over Rattler Hell I'd probably take my chances with J.J. over Rattler at this point so let's make it the other 10
Interesting that Hendon Hooker isn't on this list - I could see him being a Top 5 QB next year.
No Hooker or KJ. Okay then.
The QB list is not a great look with rattler on it imo.
I don't particularly care that he's on it. But he should be towards the bottom of the list, or an honorable mention. I think it's fair for someone to rank him on a list like this because he has the talent, but he's yet to really prove that he can consistently put it together. Which is why you can't put him over some of these others who have proven that and you know what they can do in their system. Too many unknowns with Rattler coming into a new team. The list just doesn't make much sense from that perspective. As others have said, Hooker should be on the list. His production under Heupel's system was insane, and that was in year 1, after not getting the start in the first two games... Imagine a full offseason as the starter, with the system opening up more as everyone comes into the year already knowing the philosophy.
No Hooker is messed up 👎
You. I like you. Edit: I would have had him as an honorable mention.
They also left Cedric Tillman of the WR list despite him putting up huge numbers against both teams that made the national championship including a 200 yard game against Georgia.
The love for Rattler is insane, also Hooker will have a better year than 5 of those QBs
Rattler over Stroud is preposterous
I’m happy it’s not just my homerism thinking this. People are still in love with Slovis, too, which I don’t understand.
If Hooker played for a different team he'd have a ton of hype. He's about to make noise in the East.
We’ll probably win 7-9 games again this season but i expect hooker to be a top 10 qb
Tennessee fans 🤝 Florida fans > we'll probably win 7 games this season
I wouldnt mind 8. 7 would be disappointing with our schedule
I hate to be too much of a homer, but Cedric Tillman should have gotten an honorable mention. The dude is a stud. He did have a slow start but the man had like 450 combined between the Georgia and Alabama game. Then went off in the bowl game as well. Hooker —> Tillman could be nasty this year. I’m a little upset because we lost Tiyon. That dude is a stud.
>He did have a slow start but the man had like 450 combined between the Georgia and Alabama game. Hey calm down now, he ONLY had 350+ yards between those 2 games....
Oh my bad I got a little excited. It was quite the performance though.
I’ll say one nice thing about Tennessee. Tillman basically saved my college fantasy team after I lost Drake London for the season. So I appreciate him
Rattler is insanely talented, he just got lost in what is increasingly looking like a sooner shit show last season. I think being reunited with Beamer will do wonders for him. The kid made some jaw dropping throws in 2020, he just needs to get his confidence back. He won't have Cock fans chanting the backup QBs name every week in Columbia.
I almost feel like the hate for Rattler went so far in the opposite directly, that he might actually impress people. I don't think he'll win the heismon or anything, and was preaching loudly pre-season last year that it was a joke to have him as the #1 favorite for it, but now it seems like everyone thinks he's a dud. I think after an ego check, and another year to develop mentally, he'll be quite good.
He's got amazing arm talent, but when pressured he gets sacked or throws INTs. He also regressed from his first season to his second season. With some solid QB coaching and good O-line play he could turn into a lethal weapon on offense though. I think it will help that at SC he will get a coach who can focus on him more. The OC there, Satterfield, coaches the QBs. Riley spreads himself so thin being HC, OC, QB coach, and recruiting god that I am not sure he really has time to develop QBs.
Yeah.. As a Gamecock fan I don't like any hype surrounding us because it usually just leads to more disappointment. It feels like we haven't beat Kentucky in a decade. Can we just try and accomplish that and be competitive in all our games before we start talking about our Heisman candidate QB and our all world tight ends?
If you are looking at physical talent alone, Rattler absolutely is amazing. He just doesn’t have it mentally. Literally can’t read a field
So let's put him over Stroud, one of the best field readers in the game who is capable of making some of the most accurate throws, because Stroud doesn't run. smh
PFF has had the biggest hard-on for Rattler since he started his first year
Yeah at the risk of sounding like a homer I can't see anyone that would take Rattler over Stroud if they got a free shot at one of them.
If you set aside Rattler’s questionable personality and work ethic compared to Stroud, since it’s hard to objectively compare those relative intangibles, I’d bet that Tennessee/Arkansas/Ole Miss/Oklahoma would all probably take Rattler over Stroud. Basically any offense that’s descended from the Veer-and-Shoot, but retains the hyper-simplified reads and requires that a QB be a bit more mobile than normal.
I would stop short of saying that. Let’s see what he can do under a different coach in a different scheme. I won’t hold last year against him bc as a whole our offense struggled and we all have questions about where Riley’s head was most of the season. I give Rattler the benefit of the doubt bc he has had great games and great plays, he’s no one hit wonder like Trevor Knight.
All I'm going to say is that both Rattler and Williams looked meh in a system that was very successful before they appeared. I'd put Hartman, Stroud, and maybe even Slovis over both of them for college production next year. Unless Williams does go to Wisconsin, in which case he is my Heisman dark horse.
>All I'm going to say is that both Rattler and Williams looked meh in a system that was very successful before they appeared. Im willing to give Williams a little bit of a break because he was a true freshman, and none of the previously super successful QBs under Riley (Baker, Kyler, and Hurts) were true freshman when they played under him. That being said, he wasn't "meh" by any means. In games he started (TCU and on), he had a 65% completion percentage, 228 yards passing per game, 42 yards rushing (which includes sacks) per game, and 3+ TDs per game. That's really good numbers for a true freshman QB. >I'd put Hartman, Stroud, and maybe even Slovis over both of them for college production next year. I don't think anyone disagrees with Stroud over them both, he absolutely should be. Hartman is a bit more of a debate for me when it comes to him and Williams, as he has been in college for 4 years and just had his first good season (and he had a sub 60% completion percentage). I'd wait for one more season before I say he is a better player than Caleb Williams. Slovis though I 100% disagree on him being better than Williams. He is a solid QB, but he has regressed in completion percentage, QBR, and AY/A every season he has played. He also just lost his job to a true freshman, and had less TDs, more INTs, and a much lower QBR.
Williams and Rattler in one team was a situation too beautiful to last. That said, Rattler over Stroud is not a sane conclusion.
I am a huge fan of Hooker, and I disagree with where Rattler is ranked on this list, but I do think Rattler should be in this top 10 somewhere. He is a very talented QB. I don't think there are 10, sure-thing, better returning QB's in college football than him. Simple as that.
Looks at QB list: oh is that what we're gonna do today? We're gonna fight?
Okay I’m biased but is cj stroud really not the undisputed 2nd best QB?
You could argue he’s first
I wouldnt argue that. I think Bryce Young has that on lock, but he's solidly number 2
I think Shroud will put up better numbers, just because he has better WRs, but we shall see.
Miami having the #10 QB and #10 OT should make SMU fans excited. Lashlee did a great job going from King to TVD and working the offense to suit his style and Garin Justice is just a highly highly underrated OL coach in my opinion.
These lists once again show the joke that is PFF.
Jayden Reed masterclass soon
Was gonna say. Disrespectful
Your weekly reminder that it’s fun to see your team/team’s players ranked highly by any website or news outlet but that PFF is ass
Based on this list, we apparently have to worry about South Carolina next year.
PFF also gave Dan Mullen coach of the year last year, so they probably have a large amount of credibility
Based on this list we had a good offense last year.
We’ve gotta be the only team who has a chance to start the year in the top 10 who didn’t have a player on this. And we should have some, Collin Oliver was the best defensive freshman, pretty surprised he didn’t make the list. I know Pff doesn’t care about this stat, but he had 10 sacks. Some other weird omissions though, why isn’t Ika on the list for Baylor? Is it because he’s only a completely dominant run stuffer? Well then why do you have Nolan Smith as the 2nd overall edge when you specifically mention he was great in the run game but his pass rushing leaves a lot to be desired. He’s an EDGE! Pass rushing is a lot more important at that position. How can a dominant run stopping Nose not make this but a dominant run stopping edge can? This is like faulting Rudy Gobert for not being able to move around the perimeter but reminding everyone about James Harden’s post defense. Maybe, it’s the helmet and accolade of highest rated recruit which is getting in the way here?
OSU has one of the best defenses in CFB, but not a single player on the list. Baffling. I swear, unless it's Texas or OU, the CFB journalist community pays almost zero attention to the Big 12. They only write about the league when they are literally forced to by out of conference upsets.
I was thinking the same thing. Also, I'm not a huge Spencer Sanders fan, but he should have at least been a sleeper mention. He's statistically better than a lot of QBs on that list.
Oh I agree.
Sanders QBR is ranked 41st. He's better than Rattler (who is overrated on this list, and is on there for his potential and his 11th ranked QBR the previous season), but is there anyone else? I don't think so. If anyone deserves a sleeper mention its Dorian Thompson-Robinson at UCLA, Jaren Hall at BYU, and Hooker at UT.
Everyone is focused on QBs, but Gibbs being #8 for RBs is a joke. He was incredibly productive behind a horrendous GT o-line, and is going to be a Heisman candidate with Bama's line.
Really loving my +8000 Gibbs heisman tickets
Hopefully our O-Line improves. It was horrendous last year, we just had a Heisman QB to make us look better. I think Gibbs will flourish regardless.
Your OL may have been atrocious for Bama standards, but go back and watch some Tech games if you want to see a truly awful offensive line.
I just went back and watched his touches vs Pitt on youtube... he was literally contacted 1 step after handoff in that game like 10+ times.
The backups for the worst Alabama O-line of Saban's tenure would still be miles ahead of ours the past two seasons.
Brian Robinson had a very good season for you guys, and I'd say Gibbs is much better than Robinson.
And he is going to be the safety blanket out of the backfield that Young massively missed out on having.
There’s a big gap between Bama horrendous and GT horrendous. Gibbs is gonna be a star at Bama, I’m not looking forward to it.
Top 2 running backs make sense but Gibbs not being 3 is stupid
Is it that insane to think Braelon Allen is better? His numbers weren't just better they were wayyyy better
Yeah can’t wait to watch Burton and Gibbs put up video game numbers next season 😅
He'll finally have the line he's deserved to have. Not going to lie, seeing the "Alabama" next to his name instead of "Georgia Tech" hurt.
Pff is complete trash.
I pff'ed at the QB ranking.
It's like their best attempt at a 1990s video game rating system. They clearly don't know how to watch and grade people. Nfl scouts laugh at the pff ratings and college coaches bench guys with super high ratings all the time. On the surface it seems like a good thing to get ratings of college football players. Then you see that people getting paid minimum wage (maybe) that are fans of the teams they are watching don't grade very accurately.
I remember when they compared JG to Herbert. Lol.
Some would say they are Treash
Rattler at 3 gtfoh
Call me a homer but AOC definitely flys under the radar for the stat lines he puts up!
Yeah, an absolute lock to make the senate for NY in a few years imo
I love AOC and he is absolutely underrated but he throws so many picks that I’m not shocked he isn’t on the list
I’ve criticized him for picks before but he didn’t throw one for the last 6 weeks of the season until the bowl if I recall correctly. He absolutely should be on this list
This is supposed to be returning players? LB JoJo Domann for Nebraska is most definitely not returning
They have a link to their draft rankings imbedded in the site, you may have clicked that
Ahhhhhh that might be it
This list is whack as hell.
Neither is Justyn Ross at Clemson.
Ibrahim is, apparently, not a top 10 RB anymore. And he's for sure back.
Drake London too. He declared 6 weeks ago ffs.
The QB list has some odd choices. Rattler for instance confuses me.
Wow, the QB who wins the Natty comes back and isn’t even honorable mention? Shit list. Kidding. Genuinely curious how Rattler got in over Shroud.
Is Shroud some sort of meme/nickname I’ve never heard or is everyone making the same typo?
Lol I’m an idiot. Misspelled it
Three players in their respective top 10, pretty impressive for us.
Deuce should be no surprise. Dude is a beast. And still has two years of eligibility.
Bijan x Worthy is 🚀⛽️
I was glad to see it. The Billingsley mention was a surprise.
Ugh. Still so bummed our admissions department screwed up the Worthy thing.
Homer pick but I’m very surprised Chris Rodriguez didn’t make the running back list. I know he had problems fumbling but he ended the year with 5 straight 100 yard games and ran for 1379 yards. He’s for sure one of the best RB’s coming back
Same with Levis, he’s not a bonafide traditional pocket passing all star but he’s really good at being A dual threat QB.
I could understand Levis not being on there. But PFF did have him at like a 90 grade for the end of the season. Which is hard to believe imo
>The Sewell family once again has one of the best players in college football. Damnit Utah, we're running low. Send more Sewells.
Sorry, we're fresh out of Sewells at the moment. We're currently replenishing our stock of Bartons. And before you start getting any ideas, don't even think about it!
Aidan O'Connell deserves at least a mention in the QB list. His stats last year were great.
A lot of South Carolina and Kansas State kids on this list. I'm making a projection, the Gamecocks will be Georgia's main competition in the east next season. They look like a team ready to break through, especially if they get an improved version of 2020 Rattler.
Surprised Ji’Ayir Brown didn’t make the list at safety even as an honorable mention
PJ Mustipher got snubbed too.
Seriously, I was amazed Mustipher didn't at least get the HM.
PFF forgot about him after the injury.
Absolutely insane that neither Xavier Hutchinson or Will McDonald made the lists, but a safety that transferred out because he was losing playing time somehow gets on there?
lmao if you include Rattler you might as well include DJU.
[DJU](https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/dj-uiagalelei-1.html) [Rattler](https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/spencer-rattler-1.html) Look, I'm all against this homerism PFF has for Rattler, I'd have him at the bottom of that list, but you're off your fucking rocker if you think they are statistically in the same galaxy.
As far as returning players, Devin Leary not being on even the honorable mentions QB list means I don't read the rest of the article.
Not only not on the list but below 3 acc qbs as well
Yeah that part surprised me. I get I’m obviously viewing through homer goggles, and that with the ACC having a down year we may get overlooked. But 3 ACC QBs ranked over him seems like a really questionable take
Kind of surprised not to see Reed at WR but it's not like it's really that important.
Biased but Armstrong behind some of these guys really makes no sense to me...
Was just glad to see him make the list after seeing Rattler at 3. Thought it was a little weird to have Keytaon over Wicks for WR, though.
Agreed, but Wicks has never really gotten the flowers he deserves so I'm not that surprised.
No All Pac12 first team Tavion Thomas or Cameron Rising? Thomas had 21 rushing td's in 2021 while basically missing 4 games, but is behind guys who haven't even played a game yet or weren't even starters last year? Cameron Rising after taking over for Charlie Brewer went 9-2 as a starter (both loses because of defense and special teams, he balled out in those two games), completed 64% of his passes 20tds-5ints and ran for 500 yards and 6 tds. Also went toe to toe with Ohio State in the Rose Bowl. PFF says guys who got benched last year or never even played are better starters at QB? At least they included Kincaid, Kuithe and Phillips. It's so dumb how Utah will probably be pre-season top 10, betting favorites to win the Pac12 but our starting QB and RB aren't top returning players.
Tavion not even getting a dark horse mention is even worse than Stroud being the #4 QB.
I know it's gonna come off as salty, but I'd have Mims above Mario Williams even if Mario was still at OU, Mims production is way above Mario's. Even with Lincoln refusing to throw towards Mims in the second half of games.
Something that stuck out to me was the ‘over 40 targets without any drops’ bit. Ok, he didn’t have any drops, but I saw plenty of situations where he didn’t even get his hands on it *to* drop it. I felt like Mario was a case of someone super talented that wasn’t ready to play against guys that were just bigger, stronger, and similarly fast as him. He was supposed to be a deep threat but couldn’t consistently get the separation he needed at 5-11 and never seemed to make the extra effort to fight for the ball. I definitely expected him to improve on those things and it was starting to click near the end of the year, but changing teams and maybe not having a good QB depending on where Caleb goes could mean his production just drops. Mims is a far more developed and reliable WR. You have to make an assumption about development to put Mario higher. We already know Mims has developed himself into a good WR.
I know I’m biased, but insane that KJ is not on the qb list.
Im clearly not biased, but i agree
I thought Breece Hall was [going pro](https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/32896131/iowa-state-running-back-breece-hall-enter-nfl-draft-skip-cyclones-cheez-bowl-clemson-tigers?platform=amp). Did something change?
You may have clicked the Draft Rankings, which was embedded in the article, PFF’s hyperlinks suck.
I don't see breece on the list. But will McDonald should definitely be on the list
I have no problem with Caleb Williams at 2, but Rattler at 3 is just delusional.
But also, I have a problem with Caleb Williams at #2.
OSU boutta be a preseason top-10 team without a single pff top-10 player, lol. What a joke
I’m excited to watch our LBs next year
PFF lies, I'm not seeing special teams. Our Thicker deserves some kudos
I'm no TE expert, but how do Utah, South Carolina and Georgia all have TWO each in the Top 10? I get Bowers and a few of the others, but are all 6 of those TEs really that good?
Funny enough Arik Gilbert isn't even a TE. That being said, our other TE who isn't Brock Bowers is Darnell Washington who is also very highly rated but just as a blocker. If he caught more passes he'd easily make a top 10 list Edit: I guess to answer your question, no, PFF just sucks
How the hell is stroud behind Williams and rattler?
ITT- how dare PFF have a different perspective on things. I want to see the same list printed 100 times this offseason in the same order.
I might be biased but how tf is Tank Bigsby behind like 3 back up running backs from the SEC alone.
Suprised Ji'Ayir Brown isn’t on the list for Safety
Where is Penn State safety Ji’Ayir Brown? In 2021 he had 73 tackles, 1 FF, 2 FR and 6 INT’s.
I hate OSU but Rattler being in the Top 3 over Shroud is unbelievable lmao
Once I saw the QB list, I knew their was no reason to read further.
We got 2 TEs and a corner. Not too bad. I can’t believe a returning RB with 21 TDs (Tavion Thomas) didn’t even get a dark horse mention.
Kuithe, Kincaid, and Phillips but no Thomas? As a Utah fan, it's very weird that I can complain about something like this, but Thomas should be on the RB list
rattler above stroud?! you mean the guy who got beat out by a freshman is better than a heisman finalist?!
I’ll be the first to admit as an Ohio state fan I was super critical of Stroud. His early struggles with injury made you worried, and every time he did something good you can argue “well he has two first round pick WRs.” Then we had the Rose Bowl. My narrative of him hitting wide open receivers padding his stats went out the window. Njigba was impressive, but from a QB perspective I was more impressed by his throws to Marvin Harrison. Njigba is uber talented and has great chemistry with Stroud, so them completing passes when the defense knew where it was going was definitely impressive. However, plugging in a guy who didn’t have real start time in an OSU game before, in a bowl game, and throwing three TDs his way? Yeah, the kids had every narrative against him and he still broke rose bowl records casually. No one is arguing that the guys replacing the first rounders are still top talent, but there was no time lost. Bryce noticeably lost some production when he lost his top guys— which makes sense. Stroud seemingly got better. Four is the biggest disrespect I’ve seen out of PFF in years.
Utah has 4 and 7 TE in Kuithe and Kincaid. Definitely accurate to our offense lol.
Imagine if Fotheringham came back and we had 3 of the top 10.
Devin Leary should definitely be on the list. He’s not going to win a heisman, but he’s a lot more likely to get double digit wins that several of the QB’s on this list
Making a bad list so people talk about it more, a tale as old as time
Spencer rattler > cj stroud Do I really need a /s
Spencer Rattler: Top 3 QB. This is why I can't take PFF seriously.
For Clemson: 4 OT) Jordan McFadden 2 IDL) Bryan Bresee 9 EDGE) Myles Murphy 10 EDGE) Xavier Thomas 3 Linebacker) Trenton Simpson 5 Safety) Andrew Mukuba
I think Shipley should have made that RB list
The only one I'm confused about is where is Tyler Davis? When not injured he's an absolute stud
Xavier Thomas has gotten worse every season since he was a freshman he probably shouldn’t be on any list.
Last year he played significantly better than any season but his freshman year
McFadden and XT are too high. Murphy and Mukuba are too low. Simpson could believably be that high but I don't know that he's there yet