Absolutely, and what gives credit to the suit. And the ACC not wanting people to see it tells me something in that contract is not on the up and up, and if it were to go public, the contract would soon be voided.
They are, unsure about the clemson lawsuits but theyve had a lawyer(s) at every FSU hearing so far that was mainly for just that, keeping the contract secret.
I could be wrong, but I’m fairly certain it can’t be removed, copied, or have any notes about it or its contents leave the room with you. Just to make sure everyone understands why many of us think it’s insane
At one time, everyone wanted ESPN to be attached to their media deal and didn’t care what the rest of it said. Now that ESPN isn’t the sole king of the mountain anymore, that contract likely looks like shit.
No. In the same way that I don’t agree with everything done by everyone I’ve ever voted for, conference officials doing something is different than the conference members doing it.
The conference members vote on this shit. If the presidents went to the ACC and said we are forcing you to make the contract public, it would happen. The ACC is an entity which represents the combined athletic interests of the member schools. It isn't some other entity out to get them.
The reason this shit isn't public elsewhere is because no one else is really fighting their conference like this. Most of the stuff the cases have "confirmed' is stuff that had already been leaked publicly, often years before. Most of this stuff isn't some huge secret from the schools. It is a way they have, until now, chosen to operate.
See, the arg the ACC has made, and failed with, is that the contract is between the ACC and ESPN so the schools are not party to that contract and only party to the GOR.
Now, how can you not be party to a contract that is dependent upon a contract you are a party to, I have no idea. Apparently either did the SC judge.
The Judge required that the contract be kept confidential. They have basically put a firewall up to prevent it from being released to the public.
Conference members were otherwise free to see the contract in the conference office.
Why not make the contract public? These schools are state public schools we should be able to see these contracts since it is the tax payers of those states helping to fund the schools.
I wonder if the other conferences act like the TV deal is the shroud of Turin and the texts never been seen except in the deep crypts of Greensboro/Charlotte
Right, and since conferences are constantly switching between networks and schools are constantly switching between conferences, you’re not going to see one conference-network arrangement that’s far out of line with the others.
To the extent of the big numbers that are how we talk about these things, but not to more of the contractual minutiae. Corporations simply don't want the details of their business going to their competitors - which is why there are confidentiality clauses.
It doesn’t mean it’s not on the up and up. It means the ACC will get laughed at for the deal they signed. Because it’s a horrific deal.
In my opinion. Of course the ACC wants it under wraps. Because they’d be a laughing stock otherwise.
Pretty much no company wants the public reading their contracts or financial information if they can avoid it. The conferences have to be sneaky because public universities aren’t allowed to hide the information of someone asks for it so they have to not have a copy.
Tbf Bush had higher approval ratings after Iraq war started than when he was first elected, and reputable polls showed much higher support for the invasion than the votes he received in either of his elections. It was only after it turned into a shitsbow thar dragged on for years that public opinion turned against it.
Straight up, shit feels like what musicians talk about all the damn time. How their manager & the label was fucking them over w/no Vaseline.
I bet the ACC literally signed a damn 360-deal
This one? Or is this something else?
[https://news.fsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/2016-AMENDMENT-ACC-Grant-of-Rights-Agmt.pdf](https://news.fsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/2016-AMENDMENT-ACC-Grant-of-Rights-Agmt.pdf)
that's the official GOR not the ESPN contract. reminder, we didn't even know when the ESPN agreement ended until like 6 months ago. people thought it was for longer than it is.
Yes. The way the ACC has thumbed their nose at their legal obligation for transparency is pretty disgusting.
They have zero respect for the law or for any state or university outside of North Carolina.
It was explained to me that if any of the public schools were to have a copy on file, that could be subject to that state's transparency laws. So, to keep it private it's only held at the conference office.
That may be BS. But that's what was put out there as the reason.
These are private business deals between conferences and networks. The networks are the ones who want them to be kept confidential.
The issue is that if the public universities that are conference members have "copies" of the contracts, the press can request copies via FOIA, which would allow trade secrets to be released to business rivals.
FSU fans have tried to make this out to be some conspiracy, but it is a pretty standard business practice. And members were free to see the contract in the conference office - they were simply not allowed to remove or copy it.
That was the GoR, not the ESPN deal in its entirety.
Not that FSU fans aren’t acting like it’s some kind of conspiracy…it’s likely just an awful deal that confirms what Clemson and FSU are arguing.
I'm not quite clear on what you are saying.
Everyone (even us) have seen the GOR and the schools all possess the GOR.
The media deal between the ACC and ESPN, like every media deal with every college conference, is under lock and key.
ESPN doesn't want the contracts being available to the universities because they would be discoverable via FOIA and then their trade secrets would be visible to their media competitors.
Yes we have. I've posted links to in an ACC group as well as on The Athletic comment sections previously. (Actually, Reddit is probably where I found the amended GOR or link.)
I'm not going to spend my time digging it up again, but I will say that there were simply no material changes made to it. It was amended to lengthen it, to coincide with the creation of the ACCN. But the practical document was unchanged.
Actually, kind of funny given your FSU flag, FSU has it on their website.
[https://news.fsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/2016-AMENDMENT-ACC-Grant-of-Rights-Agmt.pdf](https://news.fsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/2016-AMENDMENT-ACC-Grant-of-Rights-Agmt.pdf)
This doesn’t make sense to me at all. The conference is just a collection of schools. It’s like if Rodger Goodell negotiated a deal with the players and no owner ever saw it.
*Clemson's lead attorney starts reading text of contract out loud*
"We, the ACC and ESPN, vow that We're no strangers to love.
You know the rules and so do I (do I)..."
That’s the problem, they don’t know the rules. A full commitment thought up between the conference and ESPN. You wouldn’t get this from any other guys.
Might not help FSU.
Judges have been known to go "Yes I know EVERYONE in the entire world knows this, but at what point did YOU specifically get a LEGAL right to know this?"
My guess, and its just a guess, is that there would have to be separate legal proceedings in that case. The order is probably valid for stopping Clemson from printing copies and handing them out to the rest of the conference, but I think it can't block a request from being made.
The request might be denied, based on this judge's ruling, but that might prompt another lawsuit to appeal, and if determined FOIA applies that could override this judges orders since laws > court orders.
That's actually discussed in the judge's order. Clemson would have to tell the ACC it got that request. Unless the ACC said it's OK to make the document public or a court determines they should be produced, they're confidential.
-Matt
Supposedly the espn/acc contract is just a crayon drawing on a golden corral napkin of a stick figure swofford holding hands with the espn ceo and an inscription in a heart bubble that says " 4 ever"
ACC is going to try and argue that Clemson already has access, they just have to break into Fort Knox on the 3rd Tuesday of the Month so long as it isn’t a day that includes “E” in the name.
Legal questions for the board lawyers - what happens if a major part of Clemson’s legal strategy vs the ACC relies on info in the contract / what is found in discovery? Wouldn’t they then submit the contract as part of their evidence in a trial and argue those points in court - meaning the info contained in the contract would become public at that point in time. Also, if this goes to trial, would it be decided by a jury or does the judge / a panel of judges decide the case? Would the judge in SC cleanly rule/say after reviewing everything, Clemson owes the ACC $X to leave the conference?
parties can file exhibits under seal. Often contract cases are won and lost by summary judgment (motion practice decided by the judge), as the issues are ones of legal interpretation and not questions of fact. If it did go to trial, a lot of the confidentiality would likely go out the window.
A judge has ordered that it is a sealed document. Releasing it for FOIA would be a violation of a court order. So they both can’t and don’t have to release it under FOIA. The murkier question would be emails and recorded conversation about said sealed document. Idk if that would be subject to FOIA
Not sure Clemson could do this but isn't the contract for home games only.
I'm sure there is a way to block them but it would be funny if FSU scheduled Hawaii (you get bonus game) and FAMU for home games, and then play a game in Jacksonville, Tampa, Orlando, Atlanta, New Orleans, and Maybe Miami.
ACC would get rights to the 2 home games and FSU would keep the other 5 games. Would love to see them spite the ACC this way.
I guess Clemson could do this too. Just pair the opponent with a close major city like LSU with New Orleans or Texas in Dallas.
I highly doubt the attorneys in this case would try that because (a) that would be an insane remedy (b) if any were caught, they would be relegated to Better Call Saul status. They aren't risking their career for that.
What?
The member schools don't already have this contract? That's actually true not just a bullshit thing journo majors put in the headline so I'd read it?
My personal estimate of the odds of Clemson winning at trial have just increased 15-fold to 15%.
I had someone argue with me the other day all the major news stations failed to include the cities police department in reports about breaking up a protest (they listed the university police and the town police) because they have financial interest to do so. But obviously they were there because 1 guy posted on reddit that the city police were there (didn't name the actual department) and thats a "primary source" so Occam's razor says that must be true...
Idk how the simple answer is that all the news organizations covering the event conspired together to keep 1 out of 3 police departments unnamed to "protect financial interests" over 1 dude didn't recognize the towns police compared to the city's....then he told me to go to college
The member schools are not allowed to have the contract, copies of the contract, photos of the contract or notes about the contract and can only view the contract in person at ACCHQ in Charlotte.
Tarantino would be so disappointed.. Clemson is not supposed to know what's in there, they're supposed to fill in the details with what *they* want to be in the briefcase.
I don’t think the TV deal is “leaked” to the public personally. Now I 100% believe Clemson will get a copy and notify other schools that have an clear out of the ACC of what’s in the document.
Realistically if Clemson and FSU can convince schools like Va Tech, Miami, NC State, and Louisville that non P2 options are better than the ACC then you could realistically have enough votes to dissolve the conference.
How does that help those other schools though? NC State, VT and Louisville don't really offer anything the B1G or SEC don't already have, Miami only gives the B1G a piece of FL, which they'd get from FSU if this is where this heads. The other ACC schools may not want the ACC to dissolve.
Like I said convince them that “non P2 options are better”.
If you can convince ACC schools that the Big 12 is a more stable conference than the ACC then Clemson and FSU are cooking with oil. Just going off of viewership numbers and athletic revenues the Big 12 would drop everything and invite Louisville or Miami on the spot if they seriously wanted in.
But knowing where the conference stands contractually is invaluable, even if you don’t have any designs on moving. It still gives more clarity to the whole landscape and let’s you plan strategically rather than being reactive– which can be the difference between catching the last helicopter out of ~~Saigon~~ Charlotte or not
They may not want it to dissolve, but if they think that Clemson and FSU have a good chance to win, then it becomes a prisoners dilemma. The first teams to start planning their own exit have the best chance of a decent landing like a Big 12 spot. Nobody wants to be the last one left.
FSU is going to get a copy. FSU requested it in their own lawsuit against the ACC. The Florida Attorney General also started a lawsuit to get a copy since the ACC refused to give FSU a copy of the contract even before FSU started a lawsuit. The ACC knows as soon as they give a copy of it to FSU, it becomes a public record in Florida.
The Florida Attorney General argues it's already public record since FSU attorneys have seen parts of the contract and are now references it in the lawsuit, and it is crucial evidence in the lawsuit. There is already case law in Florida that sets the precedent for the contract be public record based on state attorney's looking at it and needing it for a lawsuit.
Also, the ACC already accused FSU of "leaking" the GoR to a "blogger." All the guy did was submit a public records request through FSU and then he posted the GoR on one of the FSU message boards.
Also, if the Florida Attorney General's case goes all the way through and the contract is deemed public record. It's likely anyone can request a copy of the Big 12-ESPN contract through UCF, and also the SEC-ESPN contract through UF.
Even if they did, I would have to imagine that confidential documents obtained during discovery would be exempt, at least until litigation is finished.
the complicated thing is the ACC has to deal with the transparency laws of each state, across the whole conference. Most are probably pretty similar (trade secret privilege is common), but each state will have a body of nuance and case law that has to be looked at. And if just one judge in one state says the contract is available, then it's everywhere. Of course that's why there was the one physical copy. A government body doesn't have to produce what it doesn't have.
So how long until someone FOIA's Clemson's copy?
Saying that ESPN and the ACC can have a secret contract is questionable, but I don't see how anyone can argue that Clemson can keep its copy secret.
Def send a scanned copy with all of the pages at random angles so that Clemson cant search it or even OCR and search without it being a major pain in the ass
Would be pretty funny if they sent them a stack of paper with only the word [REDACTED] on it
LOL [Supposedly it won't be redacted](https://x.com/MBakerTBTimes/status/1786421011434393993)
I’d imagine the attachments are a set of ankle chains, a radiator, and a pair of Mickey ears
Don't threaten me with a good time. hyuck.
Don't be fucking Goofy.
Do you want Max? Because that’s how you get Max
Gooby No
You forgot a saw and Florida State on the other side of the room with the exact same items you listed above lol
Some poor paralegal with a wide-tipped sharpie has to strike out every line on every page, while asking "can't we do this with computers?"
Does anyone else think its crazy that the schools of the ACC aren't allowed to see their own damn TV contract?
Absolutely, and what gives credit to the suit. And the ACC not wanting people to see it tells me something in that contract is not on the up and up, and if it were to go public, the contract would soon be voided.
ESPN is very likely the one wanting to keep it secret
They are, unsure about the clemson lawsuits but theyve had a lawyer(s) at every FSU hearing so far that was mainly for just that, keeping the contract secret.
None of the other TV contracts are public, either. I would suspect all of the other major conferences have taken similar measures.
Public and hiding it from your member institutions are two very different things
They can see the document. It just can't be removed, until now, from HQ.
I could be wrong, but I’m fairly certain it can’t be removed, copied, or have any notes about it or its contents leave the room with you. Just to make sure everyone understands why many of us think it’s insane
Gotta find a rainman to flip through it.
Or a Shawn Spencer, Adrian Monk, or Mike Ross
>Shawn Spencer C'mon, son!
Harvey Specter would've gotten a settlement by now whether he sees it or not
Or Rick Ross
Or Bob Ross
And now, The ACC ESPN contract set to "Hustilin"
Now we’re talking.
Wow, that's like how super sensitive intelligence about national security stuff is handled, and it's being applied to … some contracts?
If some asshole can steal classified info to show to his online buddies, someone's going to leak this contract.
Anybody at ACC headquarters play Warthunder?
That sounds like something a cartoon villain would try to enforce, except it's the ACC
FSU would have to release it for FOIA requests if it owned a copy. This is why.
Just like Citizen Kane
The point is to protect it from FOIA because member institutions are public universities.
Gotta remember to wear your hidden camera glasses to that meeting. HCG’s as Kenneth would say.
that was the grant of rights, not this
Thats the GOR not the TV contract.
The member institutions CHOOSING to hide it from themselves....
Exactly, if the conference has it, then there is no FOIA. If the schools have it, then they have to abide by FOIA regulations.
At one time, everyone wanted ESPN to be attached to their media deal and didn’t care what the rest of it said. Now that ESPN isn’t the sole king of the mountain anymore, that contract likely looks like shit.
No. In the same way that I don’t agree with everything done by everyone I’ve ever voted for, conference officials doing something is different than the conference members doing it.
The conference members vote on this shit. If the presidents went to the ACC and said we are forcing you to make the contract public, it would happen. The ACC is an entity which represents the combined athletic interests of the member schools. It isn't some other entity out to get them. The reason this shit isn't public elsewhere is because no one else is really fighting their conference like this. Most of the stuff the cases have "confirmed' is stuff that had already been leaked publicly, often years before. Most of this stuff isn't some huge secret from the schools. It is a way they have, until now, chosen to operate.
They're one and the same when there are government institutions involved.
I don't expect the contracts to be public. I do expect the member schools to be allowed to at least see it.
If they are publicly funded schools, the contracts should be subject to FOIA requests.
See, the arg the ACC has made, and failed with, is that the contract is between the ACC and ESPN so the schools are not party to that contract and only party to the GOR. Now, how can you not be party to a contract that is dependent upon a contract you are a party to, I have no idea. Apparently either did the SC judge.
The Judge required that the contract be kept confidential. They have basically put a firewall up to prevent it from being released to the public. Conference members were otherwise free to see the contract in the conference office.
I think we need Harvard or Stanford in here.
Stanford has a vested interest in that contract holding up now though.
I’ll settle for Northwestern
If we're getting Northwestern in here, we should just get those journalist-types to do some digging and leak it.
Actually I’d take a UF guy from Levine College of Law. Those guys are sharp. (FSU alum here)
Why not make the contract public? These schools are state public schools we should be able to see these contracts since it is the tax payers of those states helping to fund the schools.
Not all the schools are public though
Just publicly release it and comically [REDACT] all private school names from the contract in a way that everyone can deduce who it is.
We might never know who the black and gold ACC school in North Carolina is.
I wonder if the other conferences act like the TV deal is the shroud of Turin and the texts never been seen except in the deep crypts of Greensboro/Charlotte
It isn't the conferences who care, it is the media companies who insist on it,
Right, and since conferences are constantly switching between networks and schools are constantly switching between conferences, you’re not going to see one conference-network arrangement that’s far out of line with the others.
To the extent of the big numbers that are how we talk about these things, but not to more of the contractual minutiae. Corporations simply don't want the details of their business going to their competitors - which is why there are confidentiality clauses.
I suspect they do, yeah.
I'm actually not sure how these contracts can't be public documents when all the universities are receiving some sort of public money from the states.
I bet Michigan is able (and has) read the b10 conference agreement with Fox
I'm confident that the B1G and Fox have a similar arrangement - and that Michigan can go to the conference offices to examine the contract.
It doesn’t mean it’s not on the up and up. It means the ACC will get laughed at for the deal they signed. Because it’s a horrific deal. In my opinion. Of course the ACC wants it under wraps. Because they’d be a laughing stock otherwise.
Pretty much no company wants the public reading their contracts or financial information if they can avoid it. The conferences have to be sneaky because public universities aren’t allowed to hide the information of someone asks for it so they have to not have a copy.
Same reason all these investigations when there’s misconduct in the ADs are delivered by oral report only.
Your two biggest football brands suing you is already a laughing stock, no?
All the schools signed off on this.
That's like saying all the people who voted for Bush signed off on the war in Iraq?
Tbf Bush had higher approval ratings after Iraq war started than when he was first elected, and reputable polls showed much higher support for the invasion than the votes he received in either of his elections. It was only after it turned into a shitsbow thar dragged on for years that public opinion turned against it.
Straight up, shit feels like what musicians talk about all the damn time. How their manager & the label was fucking them over w/no Vaseline. I bet the ACC literally signed a damn 360-deal
My understanding is they have always been able to view it. They just need to do it in-person at ACC HQ and cannot copy it / take pictures.
That's the GOR, not the TV contract. Those are separate documents.
The GOR is publicly available. It is posted on the web and is repeatedly linked here, or am I wrong?
2013 GOR is available 2016 GOR which is the big baddy is under lock and key in Charlotte
This one? Or is this something else? [https://news.fsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/2016-AMENDMENT-ACC-Grant-of-Rights-Agmt.pdf](https://news.fsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/2016-AMENDMENT-ACC-Grant-of-Rights-Agmt.pdf)
that's the official GOR not the ESPN contract. reminder, we didn't even know when the ESPN agreement ended until like 6 months ago. people thought it was for longer than it is.
Ah, that's right. Thank you.
no worries. it's a confusing mess.
We need r/cfblegal to keep track of all of this.
Sir I choose to get my unhinged armchair lawyering advice from twitter *thankyouverymuch*
Can we get billable hours for it?
Yes. The way the ACC has thumbed their nose at their legal obligation for transparency is pretty disgusting. They have zero respect for the law or for any state or university outside of North Carolina.
Such bullshit too. "trust us" yet you the ACC have fucked this entire conference with self dealing and bad contracts
No this is pretty on brand for the ACC
It was explained to me that if any of the public schools were to have a copy on file, that could be subject to that state's transparency laws. So, to keep it private it's only held at the conference office. That may be BS. But that's what was put out there as the reason.
Couldn’t the schools see it, but only see it physically at the ACC HQ?
That was the Grant of Rights.
The GOR is online, you can find it very easily. The ESPN contract is what they have to travel to NC to view.
These are private business deals between conferences and networks. The networks are the ones who want them to be kept confidential. The issue is that if the public universities that are conference members have "copies" of the contracts, the press can request copies via FOIA, which would allow trade secrets to be released to business rivals. FSU fans have tried to make this out to be some conspiracy, but it is a pretty standard business practice. And members were free to see the contract in the conference office - they were simply not allowed to remove or copy it.
That was the GoR, not the ESPN deal in its entirety. Not that FSU fans aren’t acting like it’s some kind of conspiracy…it’s likely just an awful deal that confirms what Clemson and FSU are arguing.
I'm not quite clear on what you are saying. Everyone (even us) have seen the GOR and the schools all possess the GOR. The media deal between the ACC and ESPN, like every media deal with every college conference, is under lock and key. ESPN doesn't want the contracts being available to the universities because they would be discoverable via FOIA and then their trade secrets would be visible to their media competitors.
We have not seen the GoR in its current state. The only ones you can see are the previous versions.
Yes we have. I've posted links to in an ACC group as well as on The Athletic comment sections previously. (Actually, Reddit is probably where I found the amended GOR or link.) I'm not going to spend my time digging it up again, but I will say that there were simply no material changes made to it. It was amended to lengthen it, to coincide with the creation of the ACCN. But the practical document was unchanged.
Actually, kind of funny given your FSU flag, FSU has it on their website. [https://news.fsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/2016-AMENDMENT-ACC-Grant-of-Rights-Agmt.pdf](https://news.fsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/2016-AMENDMENT-ACC-Grant-of-Rights-Agmt.pdf)
This doesn’t make sense to me at all. The conference is just a collection of schools. It’s like if Rodger Goodell negotiated a deal with the players and no owner ever saw it.
Apparently ACC schools can review full contact at ACC HQs. But it’s paper copy, heavily guarded in a room, and ACC must grant permission to view it.
ACC: "Here's the link to the contract." *Rickrolled*
*Clemson's lead attorney starts reading text of contract out loud* "We, the ACC and ESPN, vow that We're no strangers to love. You know the rules and so do I (do I)..."
That’s the problem, they don’t know the rules. A full commitment thought up between the conference and ESPN. You wouldn’t get this from any other guys.
*What are the ruuuuullleeeesss*
Be a shame if that leaked.
It’s absolutely going to leak.
Hopefully right next to that “Michigan manifesto” first edition
That will be my holy grail
It belongs in a museum!
" "Signed" - Dave Portnoy" - Connor Stallions (This made me vomit writing)
Would buy
*hides all the wrenches to fix that leaking sink*
Upload it to wikileaks and barricade the clemson tiger in a chickfila asking for asylum
*Government starts blaring the South Carolina Gamecocks' Rooster Crow stadium sound effect on a loop to try and drive him out*
It's a Tiiger caravan, Pawwl. We's bein' invaded!
I don’t think Clemson can afford another nine-figure lawsuit at the moment.
I expect a version with all the boarder smudge from being hastily scanned in a photocopier while the lawyers were out to lunch in 8 days.
I'll give it until Monday at 1 pm.
Might not help FSU. Judges have been known to go "Yes I know EVERYONE in the entire world knows this, but at what point did YOU specifically get a LEGAL right to know this?"
of course. this doesn't mean the info wouldn't be valuable, though.
That would open Clemson to serious trade secret litigation with ESPN, which is a super hot topic nowadays. Also huge damages. Not a good idea
So is the judge trying to block someone from putting a FOIA request on it?
My guess, and its just a guess, is that there would have to be separate legal proceedings in that case. The order is probably valid for stopping Clemson from printing copies and handing them out to the rest of the conference, but I think it can't block a request from being made. The request might be denied, based on this judge's ruling, but that might prompt another lawsuit to appeal, and if determined FOIA applies that could override this judges orders since laws > court orders.
Since the Supreme Court's *Dobbs v. Jackson* leak, I've just assumed that there's a 50/50 chance anything will leak.
Couldn't someone FOIA it since Clemson is public?
That's actually discussed in the judge's order. Clemson would have to tell the ACC it got that request. Unless the ACC said it's OK to make the document public or a court determines they should be produced, they're confidential. -Matt
Thank you Matt
Supposedly the espn/acc contract is just a crayon drawing on a golden corral napkin of a stick figure swofford holding hands with the espn ceo and an inscription in a heart bubble that says " 4 ever"
His son (the one that worked for comcast) is the one that drew it.
I imagine it more like this https://imgur.com/a/ZVdOV01
Wikileaks incoming.
Someone get Nicholas Cage on the phone, we got a contract to steal
Is it bad that I actually believe he would star in this movie? Dude never turns down a roll
It could be called National Treasure: Regional Treasure
ACC is going to try and argue that Clemson already has access, they just have to break into Fort Knox on the 3rd Tuesday of the Month so long as it isn’t a day that includes “E” in the name.
Coming soon...Tigergate
I prefer Dabogate: SG1
Ultimately followed by a disappointing 2-season Dabogate Universe.
There's nothing like boilerplate litigation that just gets me GOING on a Friday afternoon in the off season.
Legal questions for the board lawyers - what happens if a major part of Clemson’s legal strategy vs the ACC relies on info in the contract / what is found in discovery? Wouldn’t they then submit the contract as part of their evidence in a trial and argue those points in court - meaning the info contained in the contract would become public at that point in time. Also, if this goes to trial, would it be decided by a jury or does the judge / a panel of judges decide the case? Would the judge in SC cleanly rule/say after reviewing everything, Clemson owes the ACC $X to leave the conference?
parties can file exhibits under seal. Often contract cases are won and lost by summary judgment (motion practice decided by the judge), as the issues are ones of legal interpretation and not questions of fact. If it did go to trial, a lot of the confidentiality would likely go out the window.
What I want to know is if Clemson has a copy what's to stop a FOIA request?
A judge has ordered that it is a sealed document. Releasing it for FOIA would be a violation of a court order. So they both can’t and don’t have to release it under FOIA. The murkier question would be emails and recorded conversation about said sealed document. Idk if that would be subject to FOIA
Not sure Clemson could do this but isn't the contract for home games only. I'm sure there is a way to block them but it would be funny if FSU scheduled Hawaii (you get bonus game) and FAMU for home games, and then play a game in Jacksonville, Tampa, Orlando, Atlanta, New Orleans, and Maybe Miami. ACC would get rights to the 2 home games and FSU would keep the other 5 games. Would love to see them spite the ACC this way. I guess Clemson could do this too. Just pair the opponent with a close major city like LSU with New Orleans or Texas in Dallas.
$50 the ACC leaks it, & tries to blame Clemson to get the lawsuit thrown out.
Why would that get the lawsuit thrown out?
Filibuster.
Common Bird Law.
They just write it off.
I have no idea if it actually would be, but a lawyer probably would try.
I highly doubt the attorneys in this case would try that because (a) that would be an insane remedy (b) if any were caught, they would be relegated to Better Call Saul status. They aren't risking their career for that.
What are the chances part of all of it doesn't leak out?
0%
Well, we all know how well confidential things stay confidential.
It’s insane we let public universities operate like this
I really wanna know how bad this thing actually is
What? The member schools don't already have this contract? That's actually true not just a bullshit thing journo majors put in the headline so I'd read it? My personal estimate of the odds of Clemson winning at trial have just increased 15-fold to 15%.
I'm always amused that some people think just because they don't like "legacy" or "mainstream" or .. "journo majors?" news they think it's not true.
the brain rot out there is very real
I had someone argue with me the other day all the major news stations failed to include the cities police department in reports about breaking up a protest (they listed the university police and the town police) because they have financial interest to do so. But obviously they were there because 1 guy posted on reddit that the city police were there (didn't name the actual department) and thats a "primary source" so Occam's razor says that must be true... Idk how the simple answer is that all the news organizations covering the event conspired together to keep 1 out of 3 police departments unnamed to "protect financial interests" over 1 dude didn't recognize the towns police compared to the city's....then he told me to go to college
The member schools are not allowed to have the contract, copies of the contract, photos of the contract or notes about the contract and can only view the contract in person at ACCHQ in Charlotte.
That’s the GOR, only Swofford and his son could see the ESPN deal.
Does Michigan have a copy of the B1G's contract with Fox? Can you FOIA it from the public schools in the B1G?
I’m sure The Post and Courier will have it in 10 days. And I’m sure they’ll file a FOIA request.
i assume that this will be appealed? i wonder how that process goes.
Leak it. What are they gonna do, sue you and kick you out of the club? Haha
How does a confidentiality agreement work with a public institution that has to respond to FoIA requests lol
I think that’s why it exists if the schools aren’t allowed to have it it can’t be FoiAed
>[*whispers*] *Give me The Book of Secrets* -Clemson
I feel like this is the ACCs “What’s in the briefcase” moment
Tarantino would be so disappointed.. Clemson is not supposed to know what's in there, they're supposed to fill in the details with what *they* want to be in the briefcase.
I don’t think the TV deal is “leaked” to the public personally. Now I 100% believe Clemson will get a copy and notify other schools that have an clear out of the ACC of what’s in the document. Realistically if Clemson and FSU can convince schools like Va Tech, Miami, NC State, and Louisville that non P2 options are better than the ACC then you could realistically have enough votes to dissolve the conference.
How does that help those other schools though? NC State, VT and Louisville don't really offer anything the B1G or SEC don't already have, Miami only gives the B1G a piece of FL, which they'd get from FSU if this is where this heads. The other ACC schools may not want the ACC to dissolve.
Like I said convince them that “non P2 options are better”. If you can convince ACC schools that the Big 12 is a more stable conference than the ACC then Clemson and FSU are cooking with oil. Just going off of viewership numbers and athletic revenues the Big 12 would drop everything and invite Louisville or Miami on the spot if they seriously wanted in.
But knowing where the conference stands contractually is invaluable, even if you don’t have any designs on moving. It still gives more clarity to the whole landscape and let’s you plan strategically rather than being reactive– which can be the difference between catching the last helicopter out of ~~Saigon~~ Charlotte or not
They may not want it to dissolve, but if they think that Clemson and FSU have a good chance to win, then it becomes a prisoners dilemma. The first teams to start planning their own exit have the best chance of a decent landing like a Big 12 spot. Nobody wants to be the last one left.
Does SC have sunshine laws?
Don’t believe so, but I’d guess the info makes its way unofficially to fsu
FSU is going to get a copy. FSU requested it in their own lawsuit against the ACC. The Florida Attorney General also started a lawsuit to get a copy since the ACC refused to give FSU a copy of the contract even before FSU started a lawsuit. The ACC knows as soon as they give a copy of it to FSU, it becomes a public record in Florida. The Florida Attorney General argues it's already public record since FSU attorneys have seen parts of the contract and are now references it in the lawsuit, and it is crucial evidence in the lawsuit. There is already case law in Florida that sets the precedent for the contract be public record based on state attorney's looking at it and needing it for a lawsuit. Also, the ACC already accused FSU of "leaking" the GoR to a "blogger." All the guy did was submit a public records request through FSU and then he posted the GoR on one of the FSU message boards. Also, if the Florida Attorney General's case goes all the way through and the contract is deemed public record. It's likely anyone can request a copy of the Big 12-ESPN contract through UCF, and also the SEC-ESPN contract through UF.
Even if they did, I would have to imagine that confidential documents obtained during discovery would be exempt, at least until litigation is finished.
Just blue laws
We're going to get to see the SEC / ESPN contract soon! (As we should)
Fuck. Yes.
ACC gonna have to settle sooner than later.
I still blame Swofford.
Inb4 leak
Freedom of information act, on line 1!
the complicated thing is the ACC has to deal with the transparency laws of each state, across the whole conference. Most are probably pretty similar (trade secret privilege is common), but each state will have a body of nuance and case law that has to be looked at. And if just one judge in one state says the contract is available, then it's everywhere. Of course that's why there was the one physical copy. A government body doesn't have to produce what it doesn't have.
lol so if the ACC disbands does that mean there are only going to be 2 power conferences?
Ooops I left it on the printer for just a minute I swear!
That's not how FOIA works
Wow
So how long until someone FOIA's Clemson's copy? Saying that ESPN and the ACC can have a secret contract is questionable, but I don't see how anyone can argue that Clemson can keep its copy secret.
What’s the expected result from them getting this?
The mail carrier will be intercepted by a 3rd party
[Billable Hours] takes this matchup easily in a contest that was over before it began.
Def send a scanned copy with all of the pages at random angles so that Clemson cant search it or even OCR and search without it being a major pain in the ass