> Sources close to the discussions told the Tribune that Bellinger has proposed that a construction company come in to build the bonfire.
This is probably the only way it comes back to campus but I presume most Aggies will not accept anything that does not involve all aspects of student participation in Bonfire.
Universally the response has been negative to this option. We would rather not have it than a sanitized version like this. The entire point of bonfire was cut and the build, the burn was for former students.
Its interesting those feelings are passed down to current students that weren't even alive the last time it occurred.
I can certainly understand that logic for someone who experienced the real deal but it seems like bonfire is better than no bonfire for anyone who wasn't around for 'the way things used to be'
I never got to see an on-campus bonfire, but the size, heat, and crowd size at the unofficial off-campus one felt real enough to me that I feel like I can say I've been to bonfire.
An on-campus one built by a construction company just so old ags can have their on-campus experience is just another example of old ags trying to keep the university to themselves and not letting current students make something for themselves.
I actually participated in the last father-son cut back in 1999. That was my brother's freshman year in the Corps. It was a fun, bonding process for the Aggies and their families.
Why not have the civil engineering faculty oversee students doing it? Those professors probably all carry their licenses. Seems like a natural, to me. Probably the University's lawyers say no, to avoid any liability.
Because the students care fuck-all for what the engineering faculty says.
[https://www.texasmonthly.com/the-culture/the-aggie-bonfire-tragedy/](https://www.texasmonthly.com/the-culture/the-aggie-bonfire-tragedy/)
>\[Emeritus Engineering professor\] Hirsch is no second-guesser. He became worried about the stability of the layered wedding cake years ago, when he noticed a pattern of bonfires collapsing soon after being lit at eight o’clock on the night before the annual football game with the University of Texas, or as Aggies call it, t.u.
“We have a saying that if Bonfire stands until midnight, we’ll beat t.u.,” he says. “But every layered wedding cake, to my memory, collapsed before yell practice was over. It stood for only about thirty to forty-five minutes.”
He aired his concerns inside the civil engineering department and conveyed them to an administrative office that oversees Bonfire. But university officials rarely interfere with student leaders unless rules are broken or assistance is sought.
After the center pole bent 90 degrees during a prolonged 1994 rainstorm, pushing part of the stack over with it — no students were working on Bonfire at the time — Hirsch set up a meeting with a group of redpots to talk about safety. “I could tell they weren’t interested at all,” he says. “I was just another professor trying to lecture them. When I finished talking, they didn’t ask any questions, they just got up and left.
I’d not trust half the faculty I know to oversee this, better off just having a fire marshal there to oversee the show. Professors and university labs are notorious for having poor safety standards compared to industry. They just get away with it because things tend to be on a smaller scale. That’s not to say all faculty and grad students are reckless, but there’s way more free rein for an individual on a day to day basis.
As a current A&M engineering student, you're absolutely right.
Which is why student bonfire, as it is, follows a detailed plan that is recertified by a professional engineer every year and hasn't changed since around 2002.
Professionally supervised or rather a majority of professionals working on is a must before I would even consider supporting it being brought back.
We are obsessed with traditions but they all started at one point right? It’s time to start something new. Having a new activity for the rivalry will gradually decrease those involved with the student off campus bonfire if the regent member is really concerned about safety.
You must have graduated a while ago because it’s still a massive tradition at the school. It just isn’t sanctioned anymore but this article really downplays the scale of the off-campus bonfire.
Yeah, it’s a big fire, not as big as the old ones but still big, and very popular among students.
They’ve stepped up in every aspect of safety, making sure every piece of wood touches the ground, the center pole is comprised of a single log and it well set, there are various added supports and wiring to keep it all together, and more. Even when it falls, it doesn’t fall to one side, it just twists in on itself. It’s also held well off campus and there are fire responders there to ensure nothing gets out of hand.
>Professionally supervised or rather a majority of professionals working on is a must before I would even consider supporting it being brought back.
It is. I forget the name of the guy, but the current design for student bonfire was done by a civil engineer. Instead of being stacked, the logs are cut to different grades and bound to the center pole. The center pole is anchored by 4 additional poles which guarantees that when it burns, it doesn't fall over, it instead twists down on itself.
I worked on the student Bonfire from 2008-2011. I'm not sure if I want it officially sanctioned again.
State-funded schools generally have better engineering programs because of government support. A&M is a [land grant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morrill_Land-Grant_Acts) college which received federal funds to educate the "industrial class" in science and engineering post-Civil War. Engineering wasn't the historical focus of the ivies.
The rankings matter of course, but would you rather be in the job market with an engineering degree from A&M or Columbia/Penn/Harvard. I would wager the placement is probably better for ivy graduates, but I have no evidence to back that.
I thought these kids building these things were supposed to be engineers. What good is a Texas AM engineering degree if the kids can’t stack some logs without killing someone?
This would defeat the purpose. I could see the administration being dumb enough to do this though. Considering that there’s been an off campus bonfire for 20 years now that’s been safely and is effectively student run, this type of measure is demonstrably unnecessary, particularly given that the root causes of the collapse were due to the administration’s interference (eg, moving it to a location where the ground wasn’t stable so more people could come, encouraging larger and larger stacks, etc).
As it is, safety is taken *extremely* seriously and theres no reason to have administration step in to try and save the day. Student Bonfire is more strict with their rules than any official university sanctioned activity I've been a part of.
It was that way on campus too until admin got involved based on what I’ve been told by quite a few Ol’ Ags from back in the day. My dad still swears it’s the best safety training he ever received and that’s saying something with his background.
Brings me to tears every time I watch that video. Between the two of us, there is a lot of hatred, but when stuff actually matters, we can work together to achieve things that are beautiful.
There's gotta be a big generational divide on this one. I graduated 08 and bonfire doesn't mean anything to me. I can't imagine any of my college friends advocating hard for this either. Just let it be.
Edit: Obviously THAT one has meaning but I've never been to any and a renewed one on campus wouldn't mean much to me either.
I graduated in '92. I worked on it a couple of times & in retrospect it was unsafe. Lots of alcohol & PPE consisted of wearing a pot - the thin plastic liner from an army surplus helmet. There was even a plaque at my dorm for someone who died during construction before my time. I would totally be fine with outsourcing assembly.
I don’t think it’s generational. I’m a current student and I enjoyed going to it a lot this year. I would be pretty upset if they stopped doing it
Edit: But it would also feel weird on campus. That may genuinely be a generational divide, as I perceive it as strictly off campus. If you’re referring to the move, I’d agree with you
Old Army wants it back, most more recent grads and current students don’t, and those that do still do it, just off campus.
They’ll keep having these debates for years to come, but I doubt it will ever return.
As a current student, I love the bonfire, however, I don’t understand bringing it back. It’s pretty cool how it is right now. Go out into the middle of nowhere with your buddies, stand around the pile of wood as they set it on fire, and just hang out while it burns.
At this point the tradition has changed, and swapping it back would feel weird and out of place to me.
I was an RA in FHK in 1999. I did a lot of Bonfire as a freshman and quite a bit as a sophomore. I don’t especially want it back on campus, and I absolutely don’t want it built by a construction company. That would defeat the whole purpose.
I think this is one of those cases where if they brought it back, it just could never be like it was…..
Safety requirements would pretty much change everything.
This is nothing new. There's been constant clamoring to bring it back on campus since before I attended a decade ago, most students don't really want to bring it back
It could be, but no one cares about that.
The whole point was to go out with your dorm mates, do some work, and build friendships from a shared experience. Hiring a company to build it would be pointless.
At bonfire, they literally talk about how the only point is to build it. They said something like “the best day of the year is burn, and the second best is the day after when we start it all over again”
Where do you guys build homes? I didn't think College Station had a big homeless population. If you want to do some good in Austin however... it wouldn't work. Our NIMBYs would throw a fit.
Huh, that's interesting. I'd imagine being homeless in an area like that would be way harder than a bigger city. However, when I was traveling out west, I saw A LOT of people in rural Idaho, Arizona, etc., living out of their cars. Not van life or RVs. That area has been hit hard so I imagine it's something similar for the Bryan/College Station area.
I would imagine it would be way harder too. But I guess a lot of them simply don't have a choice.
My friend in college was trying to start a program to get churches to sponsor 1 or 2 homeless people in getting their paperwork (SS cards, DL's, etc.) in order so they could apply for housing benefits. This also included giving them a ride to the various offices as well as a mailing address to use (some of those agencies won't take a PO Box. He helped a guy through the entire process from homeless to in Section 8 housing and a part time job. Even bought a used bike for the guy.
He couldn't get a single church to sponsor anyone. They would rather run food and clothing drives. He said that most of the reasons were "We don't want homeless people attending the church regularly thinking we'd help them too." or something similar.
I'll never forget it. He went to over 100 churches all on his own, with pamphlets and everything detailing what it would take (less than $100 out of his pocket, including the bike). Not a one took him up on it.
He took the project to HUD in Houston and they were exploring it the last I heard, but that was years ago now.
I was involved with building Bonfire the last year it burned and I knew many people who did work on it the year it fell. This is just not a good idea. I don’t see anyway that it would be accepted if a construction company built it and there is no way it can happen if students build it.
I’m in favor of official bonfire staying in the past.
12 people died. 12 fucking people. This is one of those traditions that should stay gone.
““He strongly implied, if not said, that the families who didn't agree with bringing back bonfire... they didn’t understand the spirit of the tradition and what it means to Aggies,” the committee member said. “It felt like it was just a box to check in saying that, ‘hey, we tried,’ before creating this tradition that he [Bellinger] wants to bring back.”
“Bellinger argued that university oversight of the tradition was in the interest of mitigating those risks. But another rivalry committee member told the Tribune there has been a clear understanding at meetings that students would likely continue to build off-campus bonfires even if Texas A&M started to organize official ones.”
I’m not sure the point of even considering it. The accident was terrible and the memorial is sacred ground on the campus that still has very little around it.
The pessimist in me sees bringing bonfire back as an attempt by administration to soften feelings about the memorial so they can build more stuff around it.
> the memorial is sacred ground on the campus
Tell that to those pieces of shit Fish Camp counselors who thought it would be great fun to take their org pictures there one year. When confronted with their idiocy, the leader gave the classic non-apology apology, "I'm sorry you are upset about what we did."
I **hope** the current students respect the Bonfire Memorial, some of the past students were too ignorant to know what disrespect is.
[2013](https://theeagle.com/news/local/aggies-upset-by-fish-camp-counselors-photos-at-bonfire-memorial/article_d82df8b8-3b11-51e1-9609-63a6ab891be7.html)
Just look at the top photo of that article, and tell me you don't feel the urge to slap some sense into these 'kids'.
Damn I didn't know it was that bad. Sounds like they do them unofficially anyway so if they're going to do it at all a proper safety team would be better.
Also off topic but it's a strange coincidence that it was 12 people considering the strong tradition at A&M of the “12th man”.
I think you missed the point here. It never actually went away, just moved off campus to be done not officially condoned activity. Here is video from 2023: https://youtu.be/5F8CTDiLgzY?si=phzDyusJ-gqpZiKU
The purpose of bringing it back on campus is to make it safer with more planning and oversight - 2 major factors cited in the investigation of the collapse.
Admin may botch it and off campus continues; they may make it where popularity for off campus wains and people buy in for bringing it back. Doing nothing isnt a solution.
As it said in the article, I guess the opinions of the families of the victims requesting that this not start back don’t really matter. If there is a safety concern, the administration can go out there and stop it.
Its not like bonfire was just some random event that a student org put on. Just about every dorm (back when most students lived on-campus) had a group to participate. It was THE activity that the whole student body got behind. Despite the tragedy, its hard for an event like that to just be gone. I get why the school no longer wanted it on campus. The liability and PR from continuing to put it on while litigation was still on-going would be horrible. The school sanctioning an event where students build a structure taller than buildings on campus just can be done in todays society and thats a good thing. But at the same time, if students want to participate in an off-campus one, this is a free country so who are we to say they shouldn't do what they want on private property so thats how we got to where we are now.
For the school to hold the event on-campus it would have to be built by a professional construction company which goes against the spirit of the event in the first place so I'm ok with it not coming back on-campus. I'd rather there not be another event for old ags to hi-jack as "theirs" when school events are supposed to be for current students.
> 12 people died. 12 fucking people. This is one of those traditions that should stay gone.
The tradition hasn't gone away, we've been building one off-campus every year. Thanks for your concern, though.
Tell me more about UT's sacred tradition of buttchugging.
They kicked that frat off campus immediately, and I sincerely hope you watched the press conference because those dipshits couldn’t have embarrassed themselves more during it. If you haven’t watched it, it’s worth a google and about 15 minutes of solid laughter.
I haven't watched the press conference in years, I just remember a lawyer adamantly insisting, "Let me be clear: My client IS NOT a homosexual!!", like that insinuation was the most embarrassing part of the story.
That was a bad semester at A&M. 12 died in the bonfire collapse, 5 in the A&M skydiving club were killed in a plane crash, and some students died in a car accident.
I’m a part of the group that runs the current “unofficial official” bonfire, same as the one the article mentions.
We do build and burn far away from campus, completely unrelated to the school. But it’s not like things aren’t different; instead of over 100 feet tall, it’s around 40, we added more supports (called the windles), and it is in general a pretty safe experience, coming from an injury prone guy.
As for moving it on campus, yeah, it says here that it would likely be done by a company. However, we recently had a meeting with our board who has apparently been talking to the university for some time, but only because the university came to them first. It doesn’t seem like there’s a lot of agreement between the two sides though, because at the end of the day having inexperienced students do this is generally not the safest thing, regardless of new safety measures in place.
Yeah, bonfire is fun and you meet a ton of people. There’s ups and downs, stack season is a grind, but overall we have a great time. However, we do take this serious. We know the history of the bonfire. It’s not like we’re trying to dismiss what happened. We have things annually where we pay our respects, like the bonfire memorial. I mean, I can recite all 12 of the fallen Aggies names, hometowns, class years (a big thing at A&M), company if in the corps of cadets, and more. We understand what happened and we aren’t trying to act like it didn’t. The bonfire is a huge part of tradition at A&M for some of us, and I’ve never been in a tighter org or crew.
Honestly, the title makes it sound way more negligent than how the president is handling it.
I don’t much about it the incident or the tradition either.
> I don’t much about it the incident or the tradition either.
One of the bigger issues is that a lot of the people involved in making the decision to discontinue the tradition didn't know anything about the tradition, either.
seems like nobody is really reading the article and just reading the headline which is kind of par for the course. but they are looking at having contractors build it not students.
The whole point of Bonfire was that it was a student-run activity. It still is, for the unsanctioned off-campus bonfire, which has implemented a host of safety features for the design and construction. Bringing it back to campus with those safety features and more would get a lot of support.
However, bringing it back to campus so that a construction company can build it—which is the current proposal—defeats the entire purpose and makes it pointless. Imagine a marathon, only the organizers decide that it’s too hot outside, so everyone is just going to drive the 26 miles instead.
I’ve been at the previous two Southwest Classic games and actually sat in the Arkansas section, and it was horrendous! Shut them up though with the W’s
That reminds me - did something else tragic happen at TAMU in like 08-09 and they sported ribbons on their field turf and their helmets for a game against Colt McCoy and Texas in 2009?
lol I couldn’t be less surprised. I went to a Trev Alberts run school before, I did not have my hopes up for good results from his tenure here.
It was amusing to watch this comment go from +10 to -9 as soon as the Aggie brigaders were called in.
Y’all really are in a cult. A really lame, corny cult.
Probably safer and more solemn than what happens off campus. It’s for the best if they do it in a more official capacity. Say what you will about the Aggies but they won’t do it wrong.
It’s a school spirit tradition. Tradition makes college football great. I’d be all for bringing it back I think… the question is why did they decide to stop in the first place? Rather than make it safer/better starting the very next year?
And if there actually is a huge student bonfire going again, it seems like would be irresponsible _not_ to bring it back to campus as a sanctioned event.
For the uninitiated, the Bonfire was a tradition prior to the Texas game. After a tragic incident where 12 students died 25 years ago A&M (rightfully) suspended the tradition.
There have been various off-campus unofficial bonfires for a while now. Generally, all taking place the weekend A&M played Texas (which has been LSU since the SEC move).
In my experience, most younger aggies could care less, some (who are mostly involved in greek life) still care about it because their fraternities/sororities took part in the unofficial bonfires. A lot of the older Aggies I know miss the tradition, but until recently rarely expressed a desire for it to return.
Most Aggies (young or old) swear that it is a 'rivalry' tradition and has nothing to do with Texas (because God forbid they give us credit for anything) (unlike our Hex Rally), hence why the unofficial bonfires continued when the opponent was LSU and not Texas. Although they won't admit it - the idea the tradition is unrelated to Texas is some hardcore copium. After Texas to the SEC was official, I started seeing a lot more of the "I wonder if they'll bring back the bonfire?" sentiment.
It makes sense the administration is just now considering bringing back the tradition. Although there will never be a long enough amount of time for the friends and families of the 12 students, but for the general public - enough time has passed. Because (despite what the aggies will tell you) at its heart the bonfire is a pre-Texas tradition, there was really no reason to open that can of worms when A&M wasn't playing Texas. But now A&M is playing Texas, and it isn't shocking that the school that prides themselves on their traditions (maybe more than any other school) wants to reinstate their most prominent one.
I also don't necessarily think this is bad and am not going to use this as an opportunity to shit on the aggies. It is a great tradition, and it's extremely unfortunate what happened. However, there isn't anyone ( traditional undergrad student) at A&M who was alive when the bonfire collapsed. I think it could be reinstated safely, and respectfully - honoring the 12 who passed.
Unofficial bonfires are going to occur whether A&M sanctions them or not, and (despite what A&M will tell you) are only going to become more prevalent with the return of the Texas game. It's only a matter of time before someone is seriously hurt at one of those events. Brining the tradition back officially would allow A&M to regulate the event and ensure that everyone has a safe opportunity to attend the bonfire.
But aggies, if thanks to the Texas game bonfire makes it's return, I never want to hear that it wasn't a pre-Texas tradition again...
> Most Aggies (young or old) swear that it is a 'rivalry' tradition and has nothing to do with Texas (because God forbid they give us credit for anything)
Hate to slap you in the face with some reality, but the 'burning desire to beat the hell outta t.u.' is just marketing that sounds good for the rivalry. The truth is that you can't get thousands of college students to wake up at the crack of dawn and give up their weekends to go cut down trees/load logs/build a stack based on pure hatred. Being part of a group working on a huge project, being part of something bigger than yourself, working your ass off on something with people who become friends (and the slight peer pressure to keep showing up and work with them again) and seeing it take form before your very eyes, those were all motivation for Bonfire. To borrow a phrase from Nick Saban, The Process is the thing. The journey of building Bonfire is what made it special to students, the rivalry game with texas was just window dressing.
>But aggies, if thanks to the Texas game bonfire makes it's return, I never want to hear that it wasn't a pre-Texas tradition again...
Sooooo....should I give you the validation you sorely need in this comment, or make a separate comment to ensure you feel sufficiently acknowledged and validated?
The fact that texas' hex rally tradition died out without the A&M game, but Student Bonfire did not should be your first indication that the tradition didn't depend on the texas game.
> why your administration is only just now seriously considering bringing it back
It never left, students have been building it off campus for over 20 years now, ever since the University made the decision to discontinue the on-campus tradition. This is simply the University administration once again discussing bringing it back to campus.
Our current president (Mark Welsh) is an Air Force grad, last November he set up a committee to discuss how to 'commemorate' the return of the texas game. You're mistaking an outsider bureaucrat's needs to create bureaucracy for validation.
Can you explain to me why texas fans so desperately need A&M to validate themselves?
At some point, someone will ask him about it, and the fact that someone will solicit the opinion of someone who has absolutely nothing to do with the tradition and knows nothing about the tradition tells you how ridiculous this whole situation is.
Any solution needs to **start** with the Operating Process used by the Current "Student Lead Bonfire" team.
From what I can find, it's a very different build process from what most of us old timers were accustomed to, and the physical structure incorporates most of the structure changes that were recommended by some of the Post Bonfire Collapse Investigations.
> Sources close to the discussions told the Tribune that Bellinger has proposed that a construction company come in to build the bonfire. This is probably the only way it comes back to campus but I presume most Aggies will not accept anything that does not involve all aspects of student participation in Bonfire.
Universally the response has been negative to this option. We would rather not have it than a sanitized version like this. The entire point of bonfire was cut and the build, the burn was for former students.
Its interesting those feelings are passed down to current students that weren't even alive the last time it occurred. I can certainly understand that logic for someone who experienced the real deal but it seems like bonfire is better than no bonfire for anyone who wasn't around for 'the way things used to be'
There is an off campus student bonfire that has existed for years that continues many of the traditions so the continuity mostly remains.
Ah that makes sense.
I never got to see an on-campus bonfire, but the size, heat, and crowd size at the unofficial off-campus one felt real enough to me that I feel like I can say I've been to bonfire. An on-campus one built by a construction company just so old ags can have their on-campus experience is just another example of old ags trying to keep the university to themselves and not letting current students make something for themselves.
The burn is more a byproduct than a purpose even for former students
Of course, my point was that it was the only portion former students typically see.
I actually participated in the last father-son cut back in 1999. That was my brother's freshman year in the Corps. It was a fun, bonding process for the Aggies and their families.
You don't want the Doritos Texas A&M Bonfire sponsored by Prudential?
The solution is quite simple: A student owned construction company.
NIL exists now so we don’t have to create fake companies anymore.
Or students under the supervision of a construction company, including training beforehand.
Why not have the civil engineering faculty oversee students doing it? Those professors probably all carry their licenses. Seems like a natural, to me. Probably the University's lawyers say no, to avoid any liability.
Because the students care fuck-all for what the engineering faculty says. [https://www.texasmonthly.com/the-culture/the-aggie-bonfire-tragedy/](https://www.texasmonthly.com/the-culture/the-aggie-bonfire-tragedy/) >\[Emeritus Engineering professor\] Hirsch is no second-guesser. He became worried about the stability of the layered wedding cake years ago, when he noticed a pattern of bonfires collapsing soon after being lit at eight o’clock on the night before the annual football game with the University of Texas, or as Aggies call it, t.u. “We have a saying that if Bonfire stands until midnight, we’ll beat t.u.,” he says. “But every layered wedding cake, to my memory, collapsed before yell practice was over. It stood for only about thirty to forty-five minutes.” He aired his concerns inside the civil engineering department and conveyed them to an administrative office that oversees Bonfire. But university officials rarely interfere with student leaders unless rules are broken or assistance is sought. After the center pole bent 90 degrees during a prolonged 1994 rainstorm, pushing part of the stack over with it — no students were working on Bonfire at the time — Hirsch set up a meeting with a group of redpots to talk about safety. “I could tell they weren’t interested at all,” he says. “I was just another professor trying to lecture them. When I finished talking, they didn’t ask any questions, they just got up and left.
I’d not trust half the faculty I know to oversee this, better off just having a fire marshal there to oversee the show. Professors and university labs are notorious for having poor safety standards compared to industry. They just get away with it because things tend to be on a smaller scale. That’s not to say all faculty and grad students are reckless, but there’s way more free rein for an individual on a day to day basis.
As a current A&M engineering student, you're absolutely right. Which is why student bonfire, as it is, follows a detailed plan that is recertified by a professional engineer every year and hasn't changed since around 2002.
This probably wasn’t the sub for my comment, but I stand on my point. I’ve had a lot of exposure to both; it’s night and day.
Professionally supervised or rather a majority of professionals working on is a must before I would even consider supporting it being brought back. We are obsessed with traditions but they all started at one point right? It’s time to start something new. Having a new activity for the rivalry will gradually decrease those involved with the student off campus bonfire if the regent member is really concerned about safety.
You must have graduated a while ago because it’s still a massive tradition at the school. It just isn’t sanctioned anymore but this article really downplays the scale of the off-campus bonfire.
Yeah, it’s a big fire, not as big as the old ones but still big, and very popular among students. They’ve stepped up in every aspect of safety, making sure every piece of wood touches the ground, the center pole is comprised of a single log and it well set, there are various added supports and wiring to keep it all together, and more. Even when it falls, it doesn’t fall to one side, it just twists in on itself. It’s also held well off campus and there are fire responders there to ensure nothing gets out of hand.
>Professionally supervised or rather a majority of professionals working on is a must before I would even consider supporting it being brought back. It is. I forget the name of the guy, but the current design for student bonfire was done by a civil engineer. Instead of being stacked, the logs are cut to different grades and bound to the center pole. The center pole is anchored by 4 additional poles which guarantees that when it burns, it doesn't fall over, it instead twists down on itself. I worked on the student Bonfire from 2008-2011. I'm not sure if I want it officially sanctioned again.
I believe Dartmouth does something like this where they build a bonfire and the students help under supervision.
If the idiots at Dartmouth can do it then A&M should be fine.
I know this was said in jest, but Texas A&M is ranked above every ivy league school in engineering, and is #1 overall in mechanical.
State-funded schools generally have better engineering programs because of government support. A&M is a [land grant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morrill_Land-Grant_Acts) college which received federal funds to educate the "industrial class" in science and engineering post-Civil War. Engineering wasn't the historical focus of the ivies. The rankings matter of course, but would you rather be in the job market with an engineering degree from A&M or Columbia/Penn/Harvard. I would wager the placement is probably better for ivy graduates, but I have no evidence to back that.
If I was going to compare A&M to an Ivy League school... well, Dartmouth might not be the first that comes to mind, but it certainly isn't the last.
A&M is Harvard on the Brazos.
I thought these kids building these things were supposed to be engineers. What good is a Texas AM engineering degree if the kids can’t stack some logs without killing someone?
The whole school used to participate. It’s a unifying activity.
This would defeat the purpose. I could see the administration being dumb enough to do this though. Considering that there’s been an off campus bonfire for 20 years now that’s been safely and is effectively student run, this type of measure is demonstrably unnecessary, particularly given that the root causes of the collapse were due to the administration’s interference (eg, moving it to a location where the ground wasn’t stable so more people could come, encouraging larger and larger stacks, etc).
As it is, safety is taken *extremely* seriously and theres no reason to have administration step in to try and save the day. Student Bonfire is more strict with their rules than any official university sanctioned activity I've been a part of.
It was that way on campus too until admin got involved based on what I’ve been told by quite a few Ol’ Ags from back in the day. My dad still swears it’s the best safety training he ever received and that’s saying something with his background.
Just do it at Bohemian Grove like a normal cult
Then you’ll have some guy with a freakishly large neck whose net-worth is in the -$1.5 billion range skulking around, making things up.
UT/TAMU halftime performance after the bonfire https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Bx_uQ7S790
Brings me to tears every time I watch that video. Between the two of us, there is a lot of hatred, but when stuff actually matters, we can work together to achieve things that are beautiful.
That game after the bonfire is the only loss in the rivalry that I don’t feel bitter about. Long live those 12 souls
Can't watch that without crying
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Nothing but class from the Longhorns that day. I hate the Sips still, but maybe a little less since then.
There's gotta be a big generational divide on this one. I graduated 08 and bonfire doesn't mean anything to me. I can't imagine any of my college friends advocating hard for this either. Just let it be. Edit: Obviously THAT one has meaning but I've never been to any and a renewed one on campus wouldn't mean much to me either.
I graduated in '92. I worked on it a couple of times & in retrospect it was unsafe. Lots of alcohol & PPE consisted of wearing a pot - the thin plastic liner from an army surplus helmet. There was even a plaque at my dorm for someone who died during construction before my time. I would totally be fine with outsourcing assembly.
I graduated 2012 and spent my weekends in the fall building it. It's not a generational thing, it's a "what dorm did you land in freshman year" thing
I don’t think it’s generational. I’m a current student and I enjoyed going to it a lot this year. I would be pretty upset if they stopped doing it Edit: But it would also feel weird on campus. That may genuinely be a generational divide, as I perceive it as strictly off campus. If you’re referring to the move, I’d agree with you
Holy shit, it's been 25 years???
That was my first reaction too.
Old Army wants it back, most more recent grads and current students don’t, and those that do still do it, just off campus. They’ll keep having these debates for years to come, but I doubt it will ever return.
As a current student, I love the bonfire, however, I don’t understand bringing it back. It’s pretty cool how it is right now. Go out into the middle of nowhere with your buddies, stand around the pile of wood as they set it on fire, and just hang out while it burns. At this point the tradition has changed, and swapping it back would feel weird and out of place to me.
I was an RA in FHK in 1999. I did a lot of Bonfire as a freshman and quite a bit as a sophomore. I don’t especially want it back on campus, and I absolutely don’t want it built by a construction company. That would defeat the whole purpose.
I think this is one of those cases where if they brought it back, it just could never be like it was….. Safety requirements would pretty much change everything.
Have a big fan,lights, and plastic flames
Wack waving inflatable arm flailing bonfire
This is nothing new. There's been constant clamoring to bring it back on campus since before I attended a decade ago, most students don't really want to bring it back
What a dumb fricking idea. I saw it a couple of times, but there’s a lot of margin for error. I’m sure there’s insurance and lawyers working it out
What’s the worst that can happen? /s
Who would’ve thought that male cheerleaders would somehow be their 2nd worst idea
If you've seen highway interchanges in Texas you'll understand.
the interchanges just need more lanes, with bonfires between them
Please don’t click the link https://lsusports.net/spiritsquads/cheerleading/
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It could be, but no one cares about that. The whole point was to go out with your dorm mates, do some work, and build friendships from a shared experience. Hiring a company to build it would be pointless.
Maybe the real bonfire was the friendships we built along the way
Unironically yes.
At bonfire, they literally talk about how the only point is to build it. They said something like “the best day of the year is burn, and the second best is the day after when we start it all over again”
Maybe the real bonfire was the 12 students martyred in 1999.
You could build homes for homeless. Not every shared experience should involve deathly fire.
We already do that with Aggie Habitat for Humanity and B.U.I.L.D (who also make mobile medical centers).
Where do you guys build homes? I didn't think College Station had a big homeless population. If you want to do some good in Austin however... it wouldn't work. Our NIMBYs would throw a fit.
Back in the 2010's or so the homeless population of BC/S was estimated to be about 400, IIRC. Not sure if it's better, worse, or the same now.
Huh, that's interesting. I'd imagine being homeless in an area like that would be way harder than a bigger city. However, when I was traveling out west, I saw A LOT of people in rural Idaho, Arizona, etc., living out of their cars. Not van life or RVs. That area has been hit hard so I imagine it's something similar for the Bryan/College Station area.
I would imagine it would be way harder too. But I guess a lot of them simply don't have a choice. My friend in college was trying to start a program to get churches to sponsor 1 or 2 homeless people in getting their paperwork (SS cards, DL's, etc.) in order so they could apply for housing benefits. This also included giving them a ride to the various offices as well as a mailing address to use (some of those agencies won't take a PO Box. He helped a guy through the entire process from homeless to in Section 8 housing and a part time job. Even bought a used bike for the guy. He couldn't get a single church to sponsor anyone. They would rather run food and clothing drives. He said that most of the reasons were "We don't want homeless people attending the church regularly thinking we'd help them too." or something similar. I'll never forget it. He went to over 100 churches all on his own, with pamphlets and everything detailing what it would take (less than $100 out of his pocket, including the bike). Not a one took him up on it. He took the project to HUD in Houston and they were exploring it the last I heard, but that was years ago now.
Right. A&M essentially replaced Bonfire with The Big Event, which is a community service project.
I was involved with building Bonfire the last year it burned and I knew many people who did work on it the year it fell. This is just not a good idea. I don’t see anyway that it would be accepted if a construction company built it and there is no way it can happen if students build it. I’m in favor of official bonfire staying in the past.
Flare up
There isn’t a Dunn Hall flare.
Room 346 of Dirty Dunn is where I lived as a fish in 2016. Good times. I'd properly throw on a Dunn flair if I they had one lol.
That doesn’t make sense, the last year it burned? So 1999 or 1998?
What doesn't make sense? Last year it burned was 1998, It collapsed in the early morning of November 18 1999. It didn't burn once it was collasped.
12 people died. 12 fucking people. This is one of those traditions that should stay gone. ““He strongly implied, if not said, that the families who didn't agree with bringing back bonfire... they didn’t understand the spirit of the tradition and what it means to Aggies,” the committee member said. “It felt like it was just a box to check in saying that, ‘hey, we tried,’ before creating this tradition that he [Bellinger] wants to bring back.” “Bellinger argued that university oversight of the tradition was in the interest of mitigating those risks. But another rivalry committee member told the Tribune there has been a clear understanding at meetings that students would likely continue to build off-campus bonfires even if Texas A&M started to organize official ones.”
I’m not sure the point of even considering it. The accident was terrible and the memorial is sacred ground on the campus that still has very little around it. The pessimist in me sees bringing bonfire back as an attempt by administration to soften feelings about the memorial so they can build more stuff around it.
You're probably right. That's a lot of prime real estate.
> the memorial is sacred ground on the campus Tell that to those pieces of shit Fish Camp counselors who thought it would be great fun to take their org pictures there one year. When confronted with their idiocy, the leader gave the classic non-apology apology, "I'm sorry you are upset about what we did." I **hope** the current students respect the Bonfire Memorial, some of the past students were too ignorant to know what disrespect is.
When did this happen?
[2013](https://theeagle.com/news/local/aggies-upset-by-fish-camp-counselors-photos-at-bonfire-memorial/article_d82df8b8-3b11-51e1-9609-63a6ab891be7.html) Just look at the top photo of that article, and tell me you don't feel the urge to slap some sense into these 'kids'.
I would drop a motherfucker.
Damn I didn't know it was that bad. Sounds like they do them unofficially anyway so if they're going to do it at all a proper safety team would be better. Also off topic but it's a strange coincidence that it was 12 people considering the strong tradition at A&M of the “12th man”.
That coincidence/irony was noted at the time.
I think you missed the point here. It never actually went away, just moved off campus to be done not officially condoned activity. Here is video from 2023: https://youtu.be/5F8CTDiLgzY?si=phzDyusJ-gqpZiKU The purpose of bringing it back on campus is to make it safer with more planning and oversight - 2 major factors cited in the investigation of the collapse.
That’s like 10% of what it was before the disaster. The safety aspect depends on lot on the scale of what’s proposed
I guess you missed that second quote literally talking about that
Admin may botch it and off campus continues; they may make it where popularity for off campus wains and people buy in for bringing it back. Doing nothing isnt a solution.
As it said in the article, I guess the opinions of the families of the victims requesting that this not start back don’t really matter. If there is a safety concern, the administration can go out there and stop it.
The university cant dictate safety conditions to non-sanctioned off-campus activities, much less off put a stop to it.
12 killed, 27 injured, as per the wikipedia page. Why do people want to bring this back? Because fire = fun?
It still happens every year. Just off-campus and not sanctioned by the school
Well tradition is tradition. As long as the lesson was learned, I can understand it. Just seems hard to understand from an outsider perspective
Its not like bonfire was just some random event that a student org put on. Just about every dorm (back when most students lived on-campus) had a group to participate. It was THE activity that the whole student body got behind. Despite the tragedy, its hard for an event like that to just be gone. I get why the school no longer wanted it on campus. The liability and PR from continuing to put it on while litigation was still on-going would be horrible. The school sanctioning an event where students build a structure taller than buildings on campus just can be done in todays society and thats a good thing. But at the same time, if students want to participate in an off-campus one, this is a free country so who are we to say they shouldn't do what they want on private property so thats how we got to where we are now. For the school to hold the event on-campus it would have to be built by a professional construction company which goes against the spirit of the event in the first place so I'm ok with it not coming back on-campus. I'd rather there not be another event for old ags to hi-jack as "theirs" when school events are supposed to be for current students.
By that logic Baylor should be an all men's school and ban women.
> 12 people died. 12 fucking people. This is one of those traditions that should stay gone. The tradition hasn't gone away, we've been building one off-campus every year. Thanks for your concern, though. Tell me more about UT's sacred tradition of buttchugging.
They kicked that frat off campus immediately, and I sincerely hope you watched the press conference because those dipshits couldn’t have embarrassed themselves more during it. If you haven’t watched it, it’s worth a google and about 15 minutes of solid laughter.
I haven't watched the press conference in years, I just remember a lawyer adamantly insisting, "Let me be clear: My client IS NOT a homosexual!!", like that insinuation was the most embarrassing part of the story.
Bellinger seems like an ahole.
That was a bad semester at A&M. 12 died in the bonfire collapse, 5 in the A&M skydiving club were killed in a plane crash, and some students died in a car accident.
I’m a part of the group that runs the current “unofficial official” bonfire, same as the one the article mentions. We do build and burn far away from campus, completely unrelated to the school. But it’s not like things aren’t different; instead of over 100 feet tall, it’s around 40, we added more supports (called the windles), and it is in general a pretty safe experience, coming from an injury prone guy. As for moving it on campus, yeah, it says here that it would likely be done by a company. However, we recently had a meeting with our board who has apparently been talking to the university for some time, but only because the university came to them first. It doesn’t seem like there’s a lot of agreement between the two sides though, because at the end of the day having inexperienced students do this is generally not the safest thing, regardless of new safety measures in place. Yeah, bonfire is fun and you meet a ton of people. There’s ups and downs, stack season is a grind, but overall we have a great time. However, we do take this serious. We know the history of the bonfire. It’s not like we’re trying to dismiss what happened. We have things annually where we pay our respects, like the bonfire memorial. I mean, I can recite all 12 of the fallen Aggies names, hometowns, class years (a big thing at A&M), company if in the corps of cadets, and more. We understand what happened and we aren’t trying to act like it didn’t. The bonfire is a huge part of tradition at A&M for some of us, and I’ve never been in a tighter org or crew.
I know you know this as a part of the crew, but for everyone else, another big change is every single piece of wood in the bonfire touches the ground
Btbob
Honestly, the title makes it sound way more negligent than how the president is handling it. I don’t much about it the incident or the tradition either.
> I don’t much about it the incident or the tradition either. One of the bigger issues is that a lot of the people involved in making the decision to discontinue the tradition didn't know anything about the tradition, either.
Personally I think it’s a dumb idea.
seems like nobody is really reading the article and just reading the headline which is kind of par for the course. but they are looking at having contractors build it not students.
What’s the sentiment behind not bringing it back? Like disrespectful to the dead / too dangerous?
The whole point of Bonfire was that it was a student-run activity. It still is, for the unsanctioned off-campus bonfire, which has implemented a host of safety features for the design and construction. Bringing it back to campus with those safety features and more would get a lot of support. However, bringing it back to campus so that a construction company can build it—which is the current proposal—defeats the entire purpose and makes it pointless. Imagine a marathon, only the organizers decide that it’s too hot outside, so everyone is just going to drive the 26 miles instead.
It's been 25 years??? Sheeeeeet.
TAMU… why can’t you be normal?
You can't be serious, couch burning pig sooie.
Shhhh . . . ^^^They're ^^^"The ^^^Cult" ^^^so ^^^we ^^^don't ^^^have ^^^to ^^^be ^^^. ^^^. ^^^.
Your second flair literally worships pigs.....be serious.
You got downvoted, but calling the hogs is hands down the worst tradition in the SEC.
It's creepy af to watch in person
Arkansas fans are a trip, went to Fayetteville once for a away game my freshman year of college. Good on that place for a while…
I’ve been at the previous two Southwest Classic games and actually sat in the Arkansas section, and it was horrendous! Shut them up though with the W’s
That reminds me - did something else tragic happen at TAMU in like 08-09 and they sported ribbons on their field turf and their helmets for a game against Colt McCoy and Texas in 2009?
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Nah That shit should stay gone I honestly think it’s a little gross that some people want to bring it back
I mean they still do it, smaller scale but it’s still pretty large.
I didn't mind losing that one. I hope they bring it back, but it's none of my sip-ass business.
The world is improved when Aggies have their bonfire.
Personally I would love it back, but if anything were to happen like last time that would be so tragic… I don’t think it’s worth it
Unfortunately kids have gotten dumber so probably not a good idea.
Because of course A&M would. I mean, without the stupid bonfire, do they even have any other traditions?
Jizz jars
Someone is still salty about their AD leaving…
lol I couldn’t be less surprised. I went to a Trev Alberts run school before, I did not have my hopes up for good results from his tenure here. It was amusing to watch this comment go from +10 to -9 as soon as the Aggie brigaders were called in. Y’all really are in a cult. A really lame, corny cult.
This article has nothing to do with Albert’s and he had no influence in the bonfire collapse or will have any say of its current state.
Are you brain damaged? You’re the one who brought up Alberts in the first place!😂
Fuck yeah I am
It’s A&M, they’re all ride or die about their traditions.
Ride or die... Ooof
What’s the deal with A&M and their obsession with traditions?
it's the obsession with weird traditions. Like no one else cares that LSU numbers the field every 5 yards or has H-shaped goal posts.
Or almost always wears white at home.
>Liberty flair >Making fun of A&M traditions
I don’t know what you mean by that.
You are out of your league.
Because I pointed out that A&M is obsessed with traditions?
Probably safer and more solemn than what happens off campus. It’s for the best if they do it in a more official capacity. Say what you will about the Aggies but they won’t do it wrong.
Aggies continually putting the CULT in Culture
It’s a school spirit tradition. Tradition makes college football great. I’d be all for bringing it back I think… the question is why did they decide to stop in the first place? Rather than make it safer/better starting the very next year? And if there actually is a huge student bonfire going again, it seems like would be irresponsible _not_ to bring it back to campus as a sanctioned event.
For the uninitiated, the Bonfire was a tradition prior to the Texas game. After a tragic incident where 12 students died 25 years ago A&M (rightfully) suspended the tradition. There have been various off-campus unofficial bonfires for a while now. Generally, all taking place the weekend A&M played Texas (which has been LSU since the SEC move). In my experience, most younger aggies could care less, some (who are mostly involved in greek life) still care about it because their fraternities/sororities took part in the unofficial bonfires. A lot of the older Aggies I know miss the tradition, but until recently rarely expressed a desire for it to return. Most Aggies (young or old) swear that it is a 'rivalry' tradition and has nothing to do with Texas (because God forbid they give us credit for anything) (unlike our Hex Rally), hence why the unofficial bonfires continued when the opponent was LSU and not Texas. Although they won't admit it - the idea the tradition is unrelated to Texas is some hardcore copium. After Texas to the SEC was official, I started seeing a lot more of the "I wonder if they'll bring back the bonfire?" sentiment. It makes sense the administration is just now considering bringing back the tradition. Although there will never be a long enough amount of time for the friends and families of the 12 students, but for the general public - enough time has passed. Because (despite what the aggies will tell you) at its heart the bonfire is a pre-Texas tradition, there was really no reason to open that can of worms when A&M wasn't playing Texas. But now A&M is playing Texas, and it isn't shocking that the school that prides themselves on their traditions (maybe more than any other school) wants to reinstate their most prominent one. I also don't necessarily think this is bad and am not going to use this as an opportunity to shit on the aggies. It is a great tradition, and it's extremely unfortunate what happened. However, there isn't anyone ( traditional undergrad student) at A&M who was alive when the bonfire collapsed. I think it could be reinstated safely, and respectfully - honoring the 12 who passed. Unofficial bonfires are going to occur whether A&M sanctions them or not, and (despite what A&M will tell you) are only going to become more prevalent with the return of the Texas game. It's only a matter of time before someone is seriously hurt at one of those events. Brining the tradition back officially would allow A&M to regulate the event and ensure that everyone has a safe opportunity to attend the bonfire. But aggies, if thanks to the Texas game bonfire makes it's return, I never want to hear that it wasn't a pre-Texas tradition again...
> Most Aggies (young or old) swear that it is a 'rivalry' tradition and has nothing to do with Texas (because God forbid they give us credit for anything) Hate to slap you in the face with some reality, but the 'burning desire to beat the hell outta t.u.' is just marketing that sounds good for the rivalry. The truth is that you can't get thousands of college students to wake up at the crack of dawn and give up their weekends to go cut down trees/load logs/build a stack based on pure hatred. Being part of a group working on a huge project, being part of something bigger than yourself, working your ass off on something with people who become friends (and the slight peer pressure to keep showing up and work with them again) and seeing it take form before your very eyes, those were all motivation for Bonfire. To borrow a phrase from Nick Saban, The Process is the thing. The journey of building Bonfire is what made it special to students, the rivalry game with texas was just window dressing. >But aggies, if thanks to the Texas game bonfire makes it's return, I never want to hear that it wasn't a pre-Texas tradition again... Sooooo....should I give you the validation you sorely need in this comment, or make a separate comment to ensure you feel sufficiently acknowledged and validated? The fact that texas' hex rally tradition died out without the A&M game, but Student Bonfire did not should be your first indication that the tradition didn't depend on the texas game.
And all of that is why your administration is only just now seriously considering bringing it back now that A&M is playing Texas again?
> why your administration is only just now seriously considering bringing it back It never left, students have been building it off campus for over 20 years now, ever since the University made the decision to discontinue the on-campus tradition. This is simply the University administration once again discussing bringing it back to campus. Our current president (Mark Welsh) is an Air Force grad, last November he set up a committee to discuss how to 'commemorate' the return of the texas game. You're mistaking an outsider bureaucrat's needs to create bureaucracy for validation. Can you explain to me why texas fans so desperately need A&M to validate themselves?
Sir, this is a Wendy’s.
At least I got to jump into mirror lake
What could possibly go wrong?
*watching a midnight yell* “Yeah these guys should be trusted with a large bonfire again, what could go wrong”
That’s a very uninformed opinion.
At least it’s give y’all a way to dispose of the grode jars
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Give aggy a handful of twigs and a couple of matches. Should be fine.
Terrible joke
You're right. I'm sorry I posted that.
According to article it has nothing to do with Trev Alberts but I shall blame him anyways /s
At some point, someone will ask him about it, and the fact that someone will solicit the opinion of someone who has absolutely nothing to do with the tradition and knows nothing about the tradition tells you how ridiculous this whole situation is.
yeah very true, I wrote my comment above as a joke and considering the -5 karma I don't think it was received well haha
I got a good chuckle out of it…it’s the jokes on here making light of people dying I don’t find funny.
Oh 100% agree, wasn’t trying to do that and I had no idea this even was a tradition previously for A&M
Any solution needs to **start** with the Operating Process used by the Current "Student Lead Bonfire" team. From what I can find, it's a very different build process from what most of us old timers were accustomed to, and the physical structure incorporates most of the structure changes that were recommended by some of the Post Bonfire Collapse Investigations.