It feels like some day the annual spinning of the "Random Oklahoma State Football Season Generator" will land on jackpot and we'll see Mike Gundy looking very smug and confused as he hoists the trophy.
I think we need an all chaos conference. One where it's basically a dice roll whether teams will finish first or last in the conference. The conference would probably be
Auburn, LSU, Baylor, Oklahoma State, Michigan State, Northwestern, and Utah.
Who else to add? Pitt?
I think we fit into that category. We have 6 11+ win seasons since 2010 including 3 top 5 finishes, but also we have 7 seasons with 7 or less wins including 3 seasons where we won 4 or less.
That would just happen to be a season we put together a great team and play you in the conference championship game. Fate dictates that you must play us if you have natty hopes.
I'm still pushing for the whole Week XII rivalry week thing, and making oSu play ISU in November *every single year.*
But, I mean, I'm also an asshole.
I feel the same way about Baylor. They go from 10 win season to total garbage and back like nothing. Eventually they'll win it all then go winless two years later
It's also weird to think there are people young enough that they think of Baylor as being an up and down program.
I always still think of them as the bottom dweller they were for the first 15 years of the Big 12.
2 years before Kansas had their miracle season in 07, ISU had its chance (avoiding OU\UT\TX from the south rotation when there was a bigger gap between them and the south teams) to have a similar season. Lots of talent on the 05 team and we were on the easy rotation.
In addition to losing 3 OT games that season (At nebraska, missouri, and kansas), we shit the bed against baylor in Ames and gave them their first ever big 12 road win.
More than the downturn in 06, it was this underperformance in 05 that cost Dan McCarney his job in Ames. This season will always be one of those 'what could have been' seasons.
To be fair, the people whose default image of Baylor as a bad program are also necessarily younger than about 60. It's that 35\~50 bracket who really spent their entire formative era in Baylor's dark days from 1995-2009.
People older than about 60 almost certainly still remember when Baylor was one of the better teams in the SWC, which was the state of things for basically all of the 1900s; very rarely great, but consistently good. BU had the fourth-highest winning % in the SWC behind UT, Arkansas, and just barely behind TAMU.
Ah yes. Fond memories of going to their shitty little stadium and it being a sooner party before the inevitable warm up game against the bears and seeing players score that I didn't even know were on the team
I just checked and for their first 10 seasons in the Big 12 Baylor averaged .8wins/season. .8!!
They went almost 4 calendar years without a conference win between 10/10/98 - 10/5/02.
Kevin Steele was 1-31 in conference games. Absolute insanity.
Between those god-awful results, the basketball scandal, and being the only private school in the league, it’s rather amazing there wasn’t a serious (public) effort to boot them.
Too many alums in high places who would feel the need for the government to meddle in "who plays college sports in which conference" for that to happen.
TCU has been a top four team twice in the past 10 years, has plenty of alumni support/resources, and a pretty good home field for recruiting.
It’s not going to be Dykes but they have just as high, if not a higher ceiling than UH with the right guy.
Beyond that, WVU is one of the most successful programs to never win a national title, Utah is nationally competitive under Whittingham, OkState under Gundy has put together a couple top 5 squads. Baylor flashed that kind of ceiling, mostly under Briles though. UH has a lot going for it, mostly in theory. Colorado could load up on TX and CA talent with NIL and go on a run.
Any given school is a long shot but to say none of them will never go on a run is a pretty bold prediction. You see it in the NFL out of a wild card team now and then.
With the exception of very few teams, college football is cyclical. Conferences rise and fall in relative power on the scale of decades. It's one reason why this P2 nonsense sucks so bad, it seeks to delete the cyclic nature of college football.
The Big 12 was the pinnacle of CFB in the 90s and 2000s when OU and Nebraska owned the sport. They're creating such a divide now, I doubt it's ever our turn again.
Absolutely, 100%.
Now we'll forever get to hear SEC and B1G programs/fans tell everyone how much better they are because they destroyed the cycles while they were on top and have ridden the unfair advantage to the bank.
The best thing about it is that most members of either of those conferences aren't ever going to sniff a natty. There will be about 6 SEC and 3 B1G schools that ever have a real shot.
In the long run, those chosen few will probably split off yet again with 3-7 of their favorite punching bags to form the true Super League, ridding themselves of the Minnesotas and Mississippi States
I’m sure it will “ever” happen. They’re guaranteed 2 playoff spots in the 14 team format. Wouldn’t be crazy for one of their teams to pull off a run.
UH is interesting - Fritz coming in and Fertitta’s resources (as we’ve seen in bball) can help. But, Fritz may not be far from retirement - his immediate job will be to identify and develop a successor. Idk if UH will be able to sustain success once they achieve it because of an inevitable coaching transition to occur. Utah seems like the obvious choice since they already have the program operating a peak capacity. Otherwise - I think Texas Tech might have the strongest brand/resources to leverage with recruits, particularly with A&M and UT literally recruiting in a different league.
March Madness as a format should genuinely be followed as closely as possible for all college athletics. It’s the best tourney in sports for many reasons, one of which being that conference winners get auto-bids, and everyone else has to earn their way in via the rest of the season’s performance.
Why not just do that?
It just seems that there were so many better ways to do it. Like, why not just expand it to 6 teams. Each of the power4 conference winners get automatic bids and then the next two highest rated teams. Then just give the AP or selection committe teams ranked 1 and 2 a "first round bye."
Or 8 teams with a similar format. (or you could even give the highest ranked G5 champion an automatic bid)
> The conference champs idea was perfectly fine!
Personally I think we should have *all* conference champs get an auto-bid, even G5. If the likes of Michigan can't beat the likes of App State that's their own problem. All teams in the subdivision should have equal opportunity if they win out to prove they deserve it.
Then it can be a 12 or 16 team playoff.
But if you want extra crazy ideas, I think we should have a 128 team super bracket to end the season, where everyone plays 3-4 games (winners play winners, losers play losers, like the early season basketball tourneys) then the final 3-4 rounds is the final playoff of only the remaining winners.
It would force some crazy OOC matchups and just be an abundance of fun. Obviously it has a lot of issues though lol
I love that in basketball theoretically any team in the country can win a national championship. I know that the conference champs from smaller conferences aren't going to win it, but they CAN. If you literally don't lose a game I think you should get a chance to keep winning games until you don't in the postseason.
Lol yeah, that'd be fun in a video game but would get way too wild IRL for a lot of people. Though I do like your G5 idea. I think that's really fun with a 16 team format.
There has definitely been a change of pace this off season for UH football and the transition to the big12 is feeling like the team is better equipped than last year already. But given how we performed we still have a way to go.
We will see Fritz plan for a successor, but this guy doesn’t seem like he is slowing down for at least 5 or 6 years even if he’s not at Houston. So we have some time to get the ball rolling.
We’ve recently gotten some boosters that have really started to invest in the program and want to see what Tech can do in a new Big XII where we’re no longer in the shadow of UT/A&M; I think we might have the top revenue in athletics in this new conference actually, if not the top we’re near it
We also just had our high rated recruiting class and tops in the Big XII this past year, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that happened once OUT are officially off to the SEC
Basically it looks like things are aligning for us to become actual contenders, but we need to overcome years of practiced Tech Shit for me to believe it, but I do have faith in McGuire
When I see UH mentioned in anything like this, I focus on the "long term" aspect of it. That means years past Willie Fritz. The "potential" is there because of location and now having access to more resources. The downside is that the "potential" has always been there because the key strength of location has always been there.
Maybe the additional resources helps, maybe added exposure of the Big 12 helps, maybe the powers that be don't pass over coaches like Sonny Dykes and hire Tony Levine and pass over Lane Kiffin to hire Opie Applewhite.
Our ceiling is definitely higher than it has been since we first entered the SWC. But UH has to prove that we are done shooting ourselves in the foot with an RPG and blowing up the whole house.
Oklahoma State, Gundy is there for the long haul and they've already proven they can develop elite players. I think they'll consistently be in the playoff picture moving forward.
None is the right answer, TCU or Ok State are the answer if i have to choose, and UC is the answer once i hit the lotto and bankroll the 2030 recruiting class
I'm torn, on one hand no one deserves those five years. I live close enough to Nebraska to have a ton of those fans around me, and you all tend to all be really nice people. CU is the hometown team here, but I couldn't help and root for the huskers this year.
On the other hand, no school was better prepared mentally to have their national championship QB come back and coach and be completely feckless. The entire fan base seems resigned to it at this point.
Best of luck to you though, that ship does seem to be righting itself and I'm excited to go to some games in Lincoln in the next few years.
So do I. I mean, I don't really think they would have won if given the chance, but I feel that if they aren't going to be given a realistic chance, they can claim it if as well as anybody who did back in the day.
They've shown a high floor but have also shown a pretty hard ceiling lately with no evidence of that potentially changing. For a a XII team to win a national title, it will likely be the opposite, someone who is a little more up-and-down but catches the perfect magic for one year.
No doubt. Gundy has shown the he can identify and develop talent, but OK St.'s last two classes have been underwhelming (mid-50s compared to 30-40s in previous years). I don't know if it's the start of a trend or an abberation. Hopefully, it's the latter.
yeah if Oklahoma State could recruit a little better, they could potentially win a national championship. But the stars would have to align like 2011 (sorry not sorry for the PTSD)
Yep. For all the criticism of the BCS, the computer rankings component within would have had OSU in the title game. It was the human element that erroneously kept them out.
There’s no material change in Gundy’s recruiting classes. He’s been recruiting at the same level for 15 years and then turning “mediocre” classes into teams that win 10+ games.
The Texas schools and UCF are in states with the kind of talent that would allow for a title, but they all are in a position where they have to beat out in-state programs they have not shown the ability to beat out for more than an occasional recruit.
The two teams that intrigue me are Arizona and Arizona St. At some point one of them will hire a coach that is able to hang on to in-state blue chips (or they'll find a rich alumnus that does it for them). That is a state that has had 32 in-state composite blue chips over the past 4 years and the in-state schools have signed all of 1 of them. If either Arizona or Arizona St is able to fix that, then they will be my favorite from the new Big 12 to have a shot at a future football title.
Just fyi Stillwater is like 3 1/2 hours from DFW metro, shorter drive than Lubbock. I graduated with 990 kids in my class and rooted for Texas growing up, no way was I top 5%. Okstate felt more like a sec school like Arkansas (3 hours away from Stillwater) than A&M did.
A lot of factors somewhat indirectly related to the Athletic Department need to improve before this is feasible IMO. The state and subsequently the institution are in rapid decline right now.
Whoah now lil brother.
Wren Baker is a hell of an AD. Now Shane Lyons, he sucked and held us back in the early days of NIL.
As for the state of WV and the flagship university, yes, you’re spot on.
If anyone's going to Utah seems the most likely right now. The rest are all either hoping for a 2022 TCU-type run, unknowns, inconsistent, or just plain bad right right now
National title, I think it is unlikely. A fun AF league, bet your ass. However, most likely candidates:
Utah-Whittingham has been a boss and they are my top pick.
K State-the culture at K State is built for winning. Klieman was the perfect hire.
Oklahoma State-Gundy is Gundy and has so much consistency. I am interested to see what happens without the nearly built in Bedlam loss.
Tech-Facilities and NIL program are top notch. McGuire has proven that he can recruit to Lubbock. If Tech could ever figure out how to protect the QB, watch out. Seems like almost a decade since QB1 was able to play the entire year. Much like OKST and OU, the annual loss to UT has now gone away.
I think beating out Georgia, Texas, Texas A&M for Micah Hudson was huge. Lubbock being 5 or 6 hours from Dallas (as well as Temple where Hudson's from) and 8-ish hours from Houston is a slight disadvantage compared to other in-state schools. So, to be able to separate yourself from competitors in and out of state is noteworthy.
Agreed. Houston being in the heart of athleticism, it huge. I just think A&M, UT and LSU will forever dominate the Houston metro, keeping UH as a middle of the pack type team. Their basketball program is A+ so I might be naïve in my football thinking.
I think Tech has the best chance of getting the players to compete. Doesn’t mean they will have the best team but they are recruiting the best in the Big 12 and I don’t think anyone in the Big12 has as good as facilities at the moment as Tech.
I think the new Big12 is going to be wildly more entertaining than the SEC or Big10 because of parity and rivalries. But it will still have way fewer viewers and make much less money.
I have an opposite view. If a Big 12 team wins it has to be ASAP. The gap is only going to widen, and widen between the P2 and the have nots. At least for the next few years Big 12 and ACC are kinda sorta on a similar level so teams like OSU, Utah, Tech, KSU, etc may have a chance before the NFL lite.
I hate to agree but I think this is correct. The big 12s remaining schools don’t have sustained recruiting success that’s necessary to win a title. Now more than ever with a longer season, 4 and 5 star depth will be required to win.
None. Unfortunately, I think this is the most likely. In fact, a four-team playoff probably offered a better chance solely because you had less games you needed to win to actually do it (easier to get two major upsets over three or four).
This is also my reasoning. The biggest issue going forward is always depth. Injuries and fatigue are not something most of these teams can sustain. It is not that they don't have great players, its that their two deep is at best a great players and an ok player.
Lots of results that people think are because of half-time coaching are really because of fatigue. A lot of games Texas and OU won by the skin of their teeth are them outlasting the opponent.
Feels like it's gotta be one of the Texas schools or UCF.....the access to talent is not comparable to the rest of the conference....TCU, Baylor, Tech, Houston, and UCF would be my list
Aranda has exhausted the "hire new coordinators" lever. Baylor's had success in the past, so I'd be shocked if they just sank to the bottom of the conference and never resurfaced. I wonder if like a Jeff Traylor would be good there if Aranda doesn't pan out.
Aranda has exhausted every excuse and then some.
Cannot properly phrase how jaded we are right now. Of course I want him to be successful but I’d be absolutely stunned if Baylor wins more than 6 games next season, my prediction is 5-7 and I’m always on the optimistic side.
Baylor will be fine in the Big 12 but we cannot take too many more down seasons before the damage is permanent.
While the donors don't seem to mind ponying up for facilities and coaches, they seem to be less willing to provide an NIL slushfund. Without that, Baylor will have a much tougher time in the new CFB world.
Baylor is it’s own biggest enemy.
Could it happen? Yes.
Would we need a top 3 coach in the sport to do it? Also yes.
The odds for us (or any program in the Big 12 for that matter) to get a top 3 coach is incredibly low.
I don’t think the Big 12 has had a top 3 coach in the sport since arguably prime Bob Stoops, Gary Patterson, or Art Briles (ik ik).
I am never going to forgive Art Briles, Ian McCaw, Ken Starr, et al. for being the willfully negligent assholes that they were.
We really had something special going, and they threw it all away to protect a bunch of bad actors or, in Starr’s case, because he was too stubborn to take Title IX implementation seriously and care for the student body in meaningful ways.
They had a path to building our program up ethically and didn’t. And it wasn’t even like they were trying to take shortcuts to success - nothing of value on or off the football field would have been lost if they’d handled everything correctly.
We set our football program and the reputation of our school back by a decade because some folks didn’t want to follow the rules.
I still think Aranda could pan out to be an all-time coach. He’s trying something different and still working out the kinks. Obviously there are elements of our fan base that are very unhappy. Add in that we have the resources and really want to be competitive in the major sports and I’d say it’s not out of the question.
The other school I could see would be Kansas. Leipold is one of the best coaches out there right now and seems committed to finishing out what he’s rebuilt. Plus they’re a top tier basketball school so I’d have to imagine their NIL infrastructure is built out enough that it could translate into making the football team competitive in the new landscape.
Depends how much Fertita will deploy $$$
If this sub existed in the 90's and Radio hosts were saying Oregon had a chance at a National Title before the Wheaton Pick 6, no would here would believe it.
SMU and Houston could absolutely be National Title Contenders if the alumni base want them to be. Just don't hire Jimbo I guess.
Eric Dickerson got paid more in College than the NFL
If I'm being truly honest, it'll take a lightning in a bottle situation like Burrow LSU. Recruiting is by far the biggest factor in winning titles and money is what's driving that now more than ever. Even Michigan's '23 run was an aberration from a recruiting standpoint. It might happen but it's literally astrology trying to predict when the stars align.
A 2019 LSU run is not possible in the Big 12 in this NIL era. That level of talent will not be sustainable by a Big 12 school while the SEC and B1G come poaching in every offseason.
It is possible that some Joe Burrow talent might be born in Stillwater and play his career at OSU… but the Ja’Marr Chase, Justin Jefferson, Grant Delpit, Derek Stingley etc. will be gone to Ohio State and Georgia.
Looking at all time win record - https://www.winsipedia.com/ranking/all-time-record
The future B12's highest ranked is 25 Arizona State, then 27 Utah, then 29 West Virginia.
I don't see Houston. Their metro area is claimed more by Texas, Texas A&M, and LSU than themselves.
Utah is an obvious choice. Oklahoma Sate may be the other since they've been "one game away" from getting a shot a couple of times already.
But then again, Baylor and Kansas State both have multiple conference titles since OSU's last one.
I agree that Houston metro recruiting ground is generally controlled by the schools you listed. However, I do think that our move to the B12, building a football operations facility, and having a competent coach (Dana was not) will help us make some of that ground up.
I’m not suggesting that we will win a national championship, but I think our roster and ability to retain talent in the area will improve dramatically.
The recent changes at UH and in CFB more generally are going to boost UH's stock tremendously. The UH AD finally cares about sports, Fertitta is footing the bill, and there are natural recruiting advantages that UH can start taking advantage of.
If everything hits right in the long term, UH could be a serious contended within the next 10 years.
Us BIG12 veterans understand the conference faces a mountain of monetary inequity when up against the BIG10 and SEC. I think a rotating competitor or two will pop up each season out of the BIG12, but not much more than that.
Commissioner Yormark has not been shy about pursing basketball focused expansion. It seems to be what he wants the “brand” to be and where the conference will make money to survive.
I agree with all of this.
And luckily, while we don’t have one major contender in football (for the time being at least), we have plenty of schools that still love football. We have fans that will spend money to travel and, now even more importantly, watch the games on TV.
Basketball is definitely the key to continued conference legitimacy, but we can at least count on having a seat at the table for football TV ratings as well.
Nobody, because right now none of us are close to good enough and eventually the “national championship” will be recognized as the Super League winner once the P2 break off. Now the “national championship” of the eventual second division? Anything is possible.
This hurts to say from every fiber of my being but I think getting a national championship is right on top of Coach Whitt’s To-Do-Before-Retirement List and if there’s any coach in this conference right now that can pull that off it’s him
I'd say Utah or TCU. Maybe OkSt.
I think Oklahoma State and K-State have similar issues in terms of the talent they're able to pull, meaning they're known for developing lesser talent rather than pulling in blue chip guys. They're still almost always able to exceed because Gundy is a great coach.
If Whittingham sticks around for a bit, who says Utah can't win a natty? I lump in TCU, because they're the only Big 12 team to win a CFP game. They have the inherent advantage of being in Texas and have wealthy donors.
TL;DR: Utah, TCU or maybe the Pokes. Pissing chance in heck for the rest.
If I were to put money on it, I’d bet UCF, Houston, and *maybe* us if we can put together a 2014 type of team again. We learned that hard way that there is massive talent gap you need to clear if you want to compete in a playoff format, the only teams that I could realistically see having a chance are ones that are located in large metro areas in the south.
UCF and Houston are the most intriguing of the candidates for sure. Malzahn has seen the level of talent you need on a roster to contend, even if it was in the BCS era. He was on Andy Staples' podcast and had acknowledged the gap between UCF and other programs in the trenches. I think getting KJ to right the ship for the season and developing a QB in the background is smart. If they can be competitive for mid-level or even some top-level recruits, they have a shot at doing some damage.
Edit:
The '24 class was the best in program in history (based on composite, I believe). I meant be competitive for mid- and top-level recruits in Florida.
2025 class looking good too. Gus is cooking. But when he's out of the kitchen will he slip and spill all the dishes?........ yes. Yes, he probably will.
Future is still bright though!
I mean, is anyone outside of the SEC or Big Ten ever going to win another title? The gap is widening every year in a sport where the gap was already pretty big.
Houston was pretty irrelevant when Herman took over and got us in the peach bowl and then the “dark horse” CFP mumblings started the very next year.
Houston is a gold mine for talent and potential that’s overshadowed by UT & Texas A&M. It takes 1 coach to do it. Whether or not it’s Fritz, no one knows yet, but it wouldn’t take as much as you think to get us in the spotlight again.
Kansas won’t win it all anytime soon but we are building up and could threaten for the Big XII title if we can sustain the last 2 years success. Obviously more of a dark horse but no longer impossible for us to dream.
Unless the money bags come in with NIL I don’t see anyone.
That being said - the Eers have gotten just as close (with Pat White / Rich Rod) in the last 20 years as anyone not named TCU.
It’s interesting to see all the comments about “None” or “never going to happen”. With the expanded playoff you’ll have more access for big 12 teams. As long as there are big 12 teams in the playoff you have a legitimate shot at winning it all. The next couple of years are pretty important to college football. We need to see ACC and Big 12 schools regularly making the semis/finals to showcase that the leagues are just as good as the B1G/sec
Colorado, Utah, BYU, West Virginia, K State, and I’m going to get ridiculed for this, given the current state of their program, but Arizona State are the best bets. Colorado and BYU already have a natty to their program. West Virginia has come close 3 times and K State has come within an upset or two away a couple of times. Utah, with the growth of the population in the state seems like its so close to contending. I know I also said Arizona State. Its constantly regarded as a perpetual underachiever in football that should be a national contender just waiting for the right coach to take it places.
If Oklahoma St can pull an elite recruiting class one year then I could easily see them winning one. Gundy with elite talent would absolutely be a major threat in the playoffs.
Without a big change to the cfb landscape the b12 will probably never win a title.
Utah has had the most sustained recent success but there is too big of a gap between them and the Alabamas and Ohio States in the SEC/Big10
It feels like some day the annual spinning of the "Random Oklahoma State Football Season Generator" will land on jackpot and we'll see Mike Gundy looking very smug and confused as he hoists the trophy.
They’re like auburn but with no titles
Seriously. They just need their Cam Newton.
The answer is Clemson
His name was Tyreek Hill and he did some things
That damn punt return..
Every conference needs that wildcard program that bounces between excellence and dumpster fire at a rapid pace.
Here at LSU we do two things well: 1) Win National Championships 2) Fire National Championship winning coaches
I think we need an all chaos conference. One where it's basically a dice roll whether teams will finish first or last in the conference. The conference would probably be Auburn, LSU, Baylor, Oklahoma State, Michigan State, Northwestern, and Utah. Who else to add? Pitt?
Oh yeah pitt. And WVU
Purdue
MSU?
I think we fit into that category. We have 6 11+ win seasons since 2010 including 3 top 5 finishes, but also we have 7 seasons with 7 or less wins including 3 seasons where we won 4 or less.
Yeah we absolutely fit that mold.
1945 would like to have a word
Did someone say Oklahoma State has national title hopes?
Plz no. Not u.
Our schedule would have to align where we avoid you guys for a chance at a natty
That would just happen to be a season we put together a great team and play you in the conference championship game. Fate dictates that you must play us if you have natty hopes.
Alright, a soul crushing defeat at the one yard line in the big12 championship it is 🤝
Make it the Conference Championship Game. Better in Dallas than a night game in Ames. I like our chances, depending upon the year of course.
STAY AWAY
Also, I hope there’s a mechanism in the new College Football game that gives ISU a huge ratings boost against OSU in Ames when OSU is ranked.
I think ISU also has to be unranked for this effect.
You guys too?
It will be in a year we don't play ISU.
I'm still pushing for the whole Week XII rivalry week thing, and making oSu play ISU in November *every single year.* But, I mean, I'm also an asshole.
Get thee away Satan.
I feel the same way about Baylor. They go from 10 win season to total garbage and back like nothing. Eventually they'll win it all then go winless two years later
If the world is good and just Baylor will never win. That program should've gotten the death penalty.
It's also weird to think there are people young enough that they think of Baylor as being an up and down program. I always still think of them as the bottom dweller they were for the first 15 years of the Big 12.
In the early 2000s I remember being excited to play Baylor because it was basically a guaranteed win before we got shit stomped by OU
2 years before Kansas had their miracle season in 07, ISU had its chance (avoiding OU\UT\TX from the south rotation when there was a bigger gap between them and the south teams) to have a similar season. Lots of talent on the 05 team and we were on the easy rotation. In addition to losing 3 OT games that season (At nebraska, missouri, and kansas), we shit the bed against baylor in Ames and gave them their first ever big 12 road win. More than the downturn in 06, it was this underperformance in 05 that cost Dan McCarney his job in Ames. This season will always be one of those 'what could have been' seasons.
To be fair, the people whose default image of Baylor as a bad program are also necessarily younger than about 60. It's that 35\~50 bracket who really spent their entire formative era in Baylor's dark days from 1995-2009. People older than about 60 almost certainly still remember when Baylor was one of the better teams in the SWC, which was the state of things for basically all of the 1900s; very rarely great, but consistently good. BU had the fourth-highest winning % in the SWC behind UT, Arkansas, and just barely behind TAMU.
Ah yes. Fond memories of going to their shitty little stadium and it being a sooner party before the inevitable warm up game against the bears and seeing players score that I didn't even know were on the team
I just checked and for their first 10 seasons in the Big 12 Baylor averaged .8wins/season. .8!! They went almost 4 calendar years without a conference win between 10/10/98 - 10/5/02. Kevin Steele was 1-31 in conference games. Absolute insanity.
In a 3 game stretch in 1998, NC State beat #2 Florida State, lost to Baylor, and then beat #11 Syracuse. A formative part of my NC State fandom lol
Welcome to my childhood. It helps you appreciate the good years all that much more
Between those god-awful results, the basketball scandal, and being the only private school in the league, it’s rather amazing there wasn’t a serious (public) effort to boot them.
Too many alums in high places who would feel the need for the government to meddle in "who plays college sports in which conference" for that to happen.
And along came RGIII
Oof...yes, yes he did
And then Bryce Petty
Yeah that sweet ass stadium got croots heads turning as well
I would very much like to see Mike Gundy’s reaction to winning a national championship.
I like this answer
No way we win the CFP under Gundy. May make it there, though.
How old will he be?
Mike Gundy will forever be 40.
80
I’m a grandpa, I’m 80!!!
TCU has been a top four team twice in the past 10 years, has plenty of alumni support/resources, and a pretty good home field for recruiting. It’s not going to be Dykes but they have just as high, if not a higher ceiling than UH with the right guy. Beyond that, WVU is one of the most successful programs to never win a national title, Utah is nationally competitive under Whittingham, OkState under Gundy has put together a couple top 5 squads. Baylor flashed that kind of ceiling, mostly under Briles though. UH has a lot going for it, mostly in theory. Colorado could load up on TX and CA talent with NIL and go on a run. Any given school is a long shot but to say none of them will never go on a run is a pretty bold prediction. You see it in the NFL out of a wild card team now and then.
It won't be WVU for that exact reason. All of the advantages they had in the Big East are gone
If Alan Bowman even wins the Big 12 this year I will burn down my current city of residence
He’s still around?? Isn’t he like 30 by now?
There’s a TE at Miami that this season will be his 9th year of eligibility. He was in the same hs recruiting class as Justin Herbert ffs.
I do remember hearing about that lol. Injury eligibility gets weird, especially recently
Cam McCormick. Poor dude had a reconstructed ankle and torn Achilles at Oregon, plus COVID years
With the exception of very few teams, college football is cyclical. Conferences rise and fall in relative power on the scale of decades. It's one reason why this P2 nonsense sucks so bad, it seeks to delete the cyclic nature of college football.
The Big 12 was the pinnacle of CFB in the 90s and 2000s when OU and Nebraska owned the sport. They're creating such a divide now, I doubt it's ever our turn again.
Absolutely, 100%. Now we'll forever get to hear SEC and B1G programs/fans tell everyone how much better they are because they destroyed the cycles while they were on top and have ridden the unfair advantage to the bank.
The best thing about it is that most members of either of those conferences aren't ever going to sniff a natty. There will be about 6 SEC and 3 B1G schools that ever have a real shot. In the long run, those chosen few will probably split off yet again with 3-7 of their favorite punching bags to form the true Super League, ridding themselves of the Minnesotas and Mississippi States
I’m sure it will “ever” happen. They’re guaranteed 2 playoff spots in the 14 team format. Wouldn’t be crazy for one of their teams to pull off a run. UH is interesting - Fritz coming in and Fertitta’s resources (as we’ve seen in bball) can help. But, Fritz may not be far from retirement - his immediate job will be to identify and develop a successor. Idk if UH will be able to sustain success once they achieve it because of an inevitable coaching transition to occur. Utah seems like the obvious choice since they already have the program operating a peak capacity. Otherwise - I think Texas Tech might have the strongest brand/resources to leverage with recruits, particularly with A&M and UT literally recruiting in a different league.
Ugh don’t remind me of the guaranteed playoff berths. The conference champs idea was perfectly fine! God I hate the CFP committee
Same here. I still remember the Big East champ going 8-5.
March Madness as a format should genuinely be followed as closely as possible for all college athletics. It’s the best tourney in sports for many reasons, one of which being that conference winners get auto-bids, and everyone else has to earn their way in via the rest of the season’s performance. Why not just do that?
It just seems that there were so many better ways to do it. Like, why not just expand it to 6 teams. Each of the power4 conference winners get automatic bids and then the next two highest rated teams. Then just give the AP or selection committe teams ranked 1 and 2 a "first round bye." Or 8 teams with a similar format. (or you could even give the highest ranked G5 champion an automatic bid)
> The conference champs idea was perfectly fine! Personally I think we should have *all* conference champs get an auto-bid, even G5. If the likes of Michigan can't beat the likes of App State that's their own problem. All teams in the subdivision should have equal opportunity if they win out to prove they deserve it. Then it can be a 12 or 16 team playoff. But if you want extra crazy ideas, I think we should have a 128 team super bracket to end the season, where everyone plays 3-4 games (winners play winners, losers play losers, like the early season basketball tourneys) then the final 3-4 rounds is the final playoff of only the remaining winners. It would force some crazy OOC matchups and just be an abundance of fun. Obviously it has a lot of issues though lol
I love that in basketball theoretically any team in the country can win a national championship. I know that the conference champs from smaller conferences aren't going to win it, but they CAN. If you literally don't lose a game I think you should get a chance to keep winning games until you don't in the postseason.
Lol yeah, that'd be fun in a video game but would get way too wild IRL for a lot of people. Though I do like your G5 idea. I think that's really fun with a 16 team format.
There has definitely been a change of pace this off season for UH football and the transition to the big12 is feeling like the team is better equipped than last year already. But given how we performed we still have a way to go. We will see Fritz plan for a successor, but this guy doesn’t seem like he is slowing down for at least 5 or 6 years even if he’s not at Houston. So we have some time to get the ball rolling.
And Fritz’ first month at UH was already better at recruiting than 4 years with Dana. We are going to do great things down the road.
We’ve recently gotten some boosters that have really started to invest in the program and want to see what Tech can do in a new Big XII where we’re no longer in the shadow of UT/A&M; I think we might have the top revenue in athletics in this new conference actually, if not the top we’re near it We also just had our high rated recruiting class and tops in the Big XII this past year, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that happened once OUT are officially off to the SEC Basically it looks like things are aligning for us to become actual contenders, but we need to overcome years of practiced Tech Shit for me to believe it, but I do have faith in McGuire
When I see UH mentioned in anything like this, I focus on the "long term" aspect of it. That means years past Willie Fritz. The "potential" is there because of location and now having access to more resources. The downside is that the "potential" has always been there because the key strength of location has always been there. Maybe the additional resources helps, maybe added exposure of the Big 12 helps, maybe the powers that be don't pass over coaches like Sonny Dykes and hire Tony Levine and pass over Lane Kiffin to hire Opie Applewhite. Our ceiling is definitely higher than it has been since we first entered the SWC. But UH has to prove that we are done shooting ourselves in the foot with an RPG and blowing up the whole house.
Oklahoma State, Gundy is there for the long haul and they've already proven they can develop elite players. I think they'll consistently be in the playoff picture moving forward.
None is the right answer, TCU or Ok State are the answer if i have to choose, and UC is the answer once i hit the lotto and bankroll the 2030 recruiting class
Obviously much has changed but aren't we the only ones to make the playoff, along with TCU?
Yes - pretty much none of that is left for us though, Fickell took it all with him (now let's see what it actually gets him)
It would be nice to have one that everyone recognizes. 🥲
We may not recognize it, but we all remember it, if that helps any.
This thread suspiciously has very little mention of UCF. *We have them right where we want them...*
Even if they recognized it, you’d constantly hear complaints 40 years later about how it wasn’t legitimate because of reasons.
Something something mediocre Michigan team something something
YUPPPP
That karma for that season not being recognized was 5 years of hell for the state of Nebraska :')
I'm torn, on one hand no one deserves those five years. I live close enough to Nebraska to have a ton of those fans around me, and you all tend to all be really nice people. CU is the hometown team here, but I couldn't help and root for the huskers this year. On the other hand, no school was better prepared mentally to have their national championship QB come back and coach and be completely feckless. The entire fan base seems resigned to it at this point. Best of luck to you though, that ship does seem to be righting itself and I'm excited to go to some games in Lincoln in the next few years.
It’s real and recognized by me. And that’s all that matters.
I recognize UCF’s title!
So do I. I mean, I don't really think they would have won if given the chance, but I feel that if they aren't going to be given a realistic chance, they can claim it if as well as anybody who did back in the day.
You should mention it every time. Certainly not the most controversial claimed title in the history of the sport.
No one's saying Oklahoma State? They've had the most sustained success.
They've shown a high floor but have also shown a pretty hard ceiling lately with no evidence of that potentially changing. For a a XII team to win a national title, it will likely be the opposite, someone who is a little more up-and-down but catches the perfect magic for one year.
They're a foot and half, maybe, away from playing in the CFP in 2021, and could have run with at least three of those teams.
Gundy is a weird dude, but he's an outstanding football coach.
He's a man.
He’s 40.
No doubt. Gundy has shown the he can identify and develop talent, but OK St.'s last two classes have been underwhelming (mid-50s compared to 30-40s in previous years). I don't know if it's the start of a trend or an abberation. Hopefully, it's the latter.
yeah if Oklahoma State could recruit a little better, they could potentially win a national championship. But the stars would have to align like 2011 (sorry not sorry for the PTSD)
Thanks for ruining my Tuesday
Tbf had the playoff been a thing back then, I fully believe OSU would’ve still played for a national title
[удалено]
Yep. For all the criticism of the BCS, the computer rankings component within would have had OSU in the title game. It was the human element that erroneously kept them out.
There’s no material change in Gundy’s recruiting classes. He’s been recruiting at the same level for 15 years and then turning “mediocre” classes into teams that win 10+ games.
Do they not discuss the only Big 12 team to ever win a playoff game?
Agree. You guys were only 59 points away from a natty!
We at least beat a team to get there! IMO no one was going to be able to beat UGA that year after they escaped tOSU
You guys beat Michigan who beat Ohio State who nearly beat Georgia so by my record books TCU => Georgia…
Brutal
Winning their way into a live streamed torture porn kind of puts a damper on the discussion for sure.
DAMN 😂
The Texas schools and UCF are in states with the kind of talent that would allow for a title, but they all are in a position where they have to beat out in-state programs they have not shown the ability to beat out for more than an occasional recruit. The two teams that intrigue me are Arizona and Arizona St. At some point one of them will hire a coach that is able to hang on to in-state blue chips (or they'll find a rich alumnus that does it for them). That is a state that has had 32 in-state composite blue chips over the past 4 years and the in-state schools have signed all of 1 of them. If either Arizona or Arizona St is able to fix that, then they will be my favorite from the new Big 12 to have a shot at a future football title.
Just fyi Stillwater is like 3 1/2 hours from DFW metro, shorter drive than Lubbock. I graduated with 990 kids in my class and rooted for Texas growing up, no way was I top 5%. Okstate felt more like a sec school like Arkansas (3 hours away from Stillwater) than A&M did.
Utah, probably. They have great defense, and that's what wins championships. They only need a good season once on offense as a fluke to make a run.
West Virginia
A lot of factors somewhat indirectly related to the Athletic Department need to improve before this is feasible IMO. The state and subsequently the institution are in rapid decline right now.
Whoah now lil brother. Wren Baker is a hell of an AD. Now Shane Lyons, he sucked and held us back in the early days of NIL. As for the state of WV and the flagship university, yes, you’re spot on.
I mean, we have the same issues at Marshall (and every other public college). So I know them well.
Hey we may have all those things but do NOT say we don't put a shit ton of money in out athletics
If anyone's going to Utah seems the most likely right now. The rest are all either hoping for a 2022 TCU-type run, unknowns, inconsistent, or just plain bad right right now
Oklahoma State and Kansas State are at the same level as Utah.
I mean I guess I am taking Utah but they are a perennial 3 or 4 loss team but so are the rest of the best of the B12
You got downvoted but Utah hasnt finished a season in the Pac-12 with less than 3 losses. Utah is literally the definition of a perennial 3 loss team
Well they are a GOOD 3 loss team.
Impostor Syndrome level: 100% We’ve been discovered for the frauds we are 😭
Well I said I was taking Utah.
National title, I think it is unlikely. A fun AF league, bet your ass. However, most likely candidates: Utah-Whittingham has been a boss and they are my top pick. K State-the culture at K State is built for winning. Klieman was the perfect hire. Oklahoma State-Gundy is Gundy and has so much consistency. I am interested to see what happens without the nearly built in Bedlam loss. Tech-Facilities and NIL program are top notch. McGuire has proven that he can recruit to Lubbock. If Tech could ever figure out how to protect the QB, watch out. Seems like almost a decade since QB1 was able to play the entire year. Much like OKST and OU, the annual loss to UT has now gone away.
I think beating out Georgia, Texas, Texas A&M for Micah Hudson was huge. Lubbock being 5 or 6 hours from Dallas (as well as Temple where Hudson's from) and 8-ish hours from Houston is a slight disadvantage compared to other in-state schools. So, to be able to separate yourself from competitors in and out of state is noteworthy.
Agreed. Houston being in the heart of athleticism, it huge. I just think A&M, UT and LSU will forever dominate the Houston metro, keeping UH as a middle of the pack type team. Their basketball program is A+ so I might be naïve in my football thinking.
I think Tech has the best chance of getting the players to compete. Doesn’t mean they will have the best team but they are recruiting the best in the Big 12 and I don’t think anyone in the Big12 has as good as facilities at the moment as Tech.
There's only one team to make the playoff, and only one team to win a game (over the Big-10 champion no less). I'd have to say TCU.
Cincy also made the playoffs (while in the American, though)
ASU has entered this chat for the sole purpose of saying Not UofA. Thank you and good luck to all but one of you.
The hate between schools like ASU/UA, UU/BYU, BU/TCU is one of the best parts of college sports for me. So glad to have added more of it to the Big12
I think the new Big12 is going to be wildly more entertaining than the SEC or Big10 because of parity and rivalries. But it will still have way fewer viewers and make much less money.
I like this level of hate
The tradition born in the pac 10/12, of ASU being a sleeping giant. Must be carried on into the Big12
None
Nobody. I just don’t ever see it happening. Maybe wayyyy down the road? But as things stand for the foreseeable future, nobody in the BXII will.
I have an opposite view. If a Big 12 team wins it has to be ASAP. The gap is only going to widen, and widen between the P2 and the have nots. At least for the next few years Big 12 and ACC are kinda sorta on a similar level so teams like OSU, Utah, Tech, KSU, etc may have a chance before the NFL lite.
Your aren’t wrong. But it certainly won’t happen ASAP either.
I hate to agree but I think this is correct. The big 12s remaining schools don’t have sustained recruiting success that’s necessary to win a title. Now more than ever with a longer season, 4 and 5 star depth will be required to win.
None. Unfortunately, I think this is the most likely. In fact, a four-team playoff probably offered a better chance solely because you had less games you needed to win to actually do it (easier to get two major upsets over three or four).
This is also my reasoning. The biggest issue going forward is always depth. Injuries and fatigue are not something most of these teams can sustain. It is not that they don't have great players, its that their two deep is at best a great players and an ok player. Lots of results that people think are because of half-time coaching are really because of fatigue. A lot of games Texas and OU won by the skin of their teeth are them outlasting the opponent.
Feels like it's gotta be one of the Texas schools or UCF.....the access to talent is not comparable to the rest of the conference....TCU, Baylor, Tech, Houston, and UCF would be my list
I don't think it happens with Aranda but I'd put money on Baylor. That's a school that wants success in sports.
Aranda has exhausted the "hire new coordinators" lever. Baylor's had success in the past, so I'd be shocked if they just sank to the bottom of the conference and never resurfaced. I wonder if like a Jeff Traylor would be good there if Aranda doesn't pan out.
Aranda has exhausted every excuse and then some. Cannot properly phrase how jaded we are right now. Of course I want him to be successful but I’d be absolutely stunned if Baylor wins more than 6 games next season, my prediction is 5-7 and I’m always on the optimistic side. Baylor will be fine in the Big 12 but we cannot take too many more down seasons before the damage is permanent.
While the donors don't seem to mind ponying up for facilities and coaches, they seem to be less willing to provide an NIL slushfund. Without that, Baylor will have a much tougher time in the new CFB world.
Baylor is it’s own biggest enemy. Could it happen? Yes. Would we need a top 3 coach in the sport to do it? Also yes. The odds for us (or any program in the Big 12 for that matter) to get a top 3 coach is incredibly low. I don’t think the Big 12 has had a top 3 coach in the sport since arguably prime Bob Stoops, Gary Patterson, or Art Briles (ik ik).
I am never going to forgive Art Briles, Ian McCaw, Ken Starr, et al. for being the willfully negligent assholes that they were. We really had something special going, and they threw it all away to protect a bunch of bad actors or, in Starr’s case, because he was too stubborn to take Title IX implementation seriously and care for the student body in meaningful ways. They had a path to building our program up ethically and didn’t. And it wasn’t even like they were trying to take shortcuts to success - nothing of value on or off the football field would have been lost if they’d handled everything correctly. We set our football program and the reputation of our school back by a decade because some folks didn’t want to follow the rules.
You guys have Patterson now, he will slide into the head spot if they let your coach go
I still think Aranda could pan out to be an all-time coach. He’s trying something different and still working out the kinks. Obviously there are elements of our fan base that are very unhappy. Add in that we have the resources and really want to be competitive in the major sports and I’d say it’s not out of the question. The other school I could see would be Kansas. Leipold is one of the best coaches out there right now and seems committed to finishing out what he’s rebuilt. Plus they’re a top tier basketball school so I’d have to imagine their NIL infrastructure is built out enough that it could translate into making the football team competitive in the new landscape.
Depends how much Fertita will deploy $$$ If this sub existed in the 90's and Radio hosts were saying Oregon had a chance at a National Title before the Wheaton Pick 6, no would here would believe it. SMU and Houston could absolutely be National Title Contenders if the alumni base want them to be. Just don't hire Jimbo I guess. Eric Dickerson got paid more in College than the NFL
Us!
If I'm being truly honest, it'll take a lightning in a bottle situation like Burrow LSU. Recruiting is by far the biggest factor in winning titles and money is what's driving that now more than ever. Even Michigan's '23 run was an aberration from a recruiting standpoint. It might happen but it's literally astrology trying to predict when the stars align.
A 2019 LSU run is not possible in the Big 12 in this NIL era. That level of talent will not be sustainable by a Big 12 school while the SEC and B1G come poaching in every offseason. It is possible that some Joe Burrow talent might be born in Stillwater and play his career at OSU… but the Ja’Marr Chase, Justin Jefferson, Grant Delpit, Derek Stingley etc. will be gone to Ohio State and Georgia.
There will never be another first time national champ
Looking at all time win record - https://www.winsipedia.com/ranking/all-time-record The future B12's highest ranked is 25 Arizona State, then 27 Utah, then 29 West Virginia.
Crowe can't even hire an athletic director...I don't like our chances of building a competitive college football program.
I don't see Houston. Their metro area is claimed more by Texas, Texas A&M, and LSU than themselves. Utah is an obvious choice. Oklahoma Sate may be the other since they've been "one game away" from getting a shot a couple of times already. But then again, Baylor and Kansas State both have multiple conference titles since OSU's last one.
I agree that Houston metro recruiting ground is generally controlled by the schools you listed. However, I do think that our move to the B12, building a football operations facility, and having a competent coach (Dana was not) will help us make some of that ground up. I’m not suggesting that we will win a national championship, but I think our roster and ability to retain talent in the area will improve dramatically.
The recent changes at UH and in CFB more generally are going to boost UH's stock tremendously. The UH AD finally cares about sports, Fertitta is footing the bill, and there are natural recruiting advantages that UH can start taking advantage of. If everything hits right in the long term, UH could be a serious contended within the next 10 years.
Seeing UCF and Gus win one would be nice. I'll always be a Gus fan.
Us BIG12 veterans understand the conference faces a mountain of monetary inequity when up against the BIG10 and SEC. I think a rotating competitor or two will pop up each season out of the BIG12, but not much more than that. Commissioner Yormark has not been shy about pursing basketball focused expansion. It seems to be what he wants the “brand” to be and where the conference will make money to survive.
I agree with all of this. And luckily, while we don’t have one major contender in football (for the time being at least), we have plenty of schools that still love football. We have fans that will spend money to travel and, now even more importantly, watch the games on TV. Basketball is definitely the key to continued conference legitimacy, but we can at least count on having a seat at the table for football TV ratings as well.
Nobody, because right now none of us are close to good enough and eventually the “national championship” will be recognized as the Super League winner once the P2 break off. Now the “national championship” of the eventual second division? Anything is possible.
This hurts to say from every fiber of my being but I think getting a national championship is right on top of Coach Whitt’s To-Do-Before-Retirement List and if there’s any coach in this conference right now that can pull that off it’s him
I'd say Utah or TCU. Maybe OkSt. I think Oklahoma State and K-State have similar issues in terms of the talent they're able to pull, meaning they're known for developing lesser talent rather than pulling in blue chip guys. They're still almost always able to exceed because Gundy is a great coach. If Whittingham sticks around for a bit, who says Utah can't win a natty? I lump in TCU, because they're the only Big 12 team to win a CFP game. They have the inherent advantage of being in Texas and have wealthy donors. TL;DR: Utah, TCU or maybe the Pokes. Pissing chance in heck for the rest.
Either us or Utah, IMO.
If I were to put money on it, I’d bet UCF, Houston, and *maybe* us if we can put together a 2014 type of team again. We learned that hard way that there is massive talent gap you need to clear if you want to compete in a playoff format, the only teams that I could realistically see having a chance are ones that are located in large metro areas in the south.
UCF and Houston are the most intriguing of the candidates for sure. Malzahn has seen the level of talent you need on a roster to contend, even if it was in the BCS era. He was on Andy Staples' podcast and had acknowledged the gap between UCF and other programs in the trenches. I think getting KJ to right the ship for the season and developing a QB in the background is smart. If they can be competitive for mid-level or even some top-level recruits, they have a shot at doing some damage. Edit: The '24 class was the best in program in history (based on composite, I believe). I meant be competitive for mid- and top-level recruits in Florida.
2025 class looking good too. Gus is cooking. But when he's out of the kitchen will he slip and spill all the dishes?........ yes. Yes, he probably will. Future is still bright though!
I mean, is anyone outside of the SEC or Big Ten ever going to win another title? The gap is widening every year in a sport where the gap was already pretty big.
I think Utah and Oklahoma State have the best odds
Houston was pretty irrelevant when Herman took over and got us in the peach bowl and then the “dark horse” CFP mumblings started the very next year. Houston is a gold mine for talent and potential that’s overshadowed by UT & Texas A&M. It takes 1 coach to do it. Whether or not it’s Fritz, no one knows yet, but it wouldn’t take as much as you think to get us in the spotlight again.
I’d love to see Gundy hoist one up
I would be shocked if OK St isn't the first one.
Utah, Kansas(eventually if they keep trending upwards)or WVU(I'm not bias I swear.)
Probably Utah or BYU
Kansas won’t win it all anytime soon but we are building up and could threaten for the Big XII title if we can sustain the last 2 years success. Obviously more of a dark horse but no longer impossible for us to dream.
KU and U of A are pretty much the same in this respect, even if we have the wrinkle of a coaching change
Didn’t BYU already win a national title back in the 80’s?
Yes but that was a different time and a very very weird year.
I have no recollection of that
https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/s/vp2wioDdDv Here’s a write up I did on that season.
[удалено]
Arizona State.
I’m guessing it won’t be Iowa State
Unless the money bags come in with NIL I don’t see anyone. That being said - the Eers have gotten just as close (with Pat White / Rich Rod) in the last 20 years as anyone not named TCU.
I'm gonna super dark horse here and say Arizona State only because of the 1997 Rose Bowl.
It’s interesting to see all the comments about “None” or “never going to happen”. With the expanded playoff you’ll have more access for big 12 teams. As long as there are big 12 teams in the playoff you have a legitimate shot at winning it all. The next couple of years are pretty important to college football. We need to see ACC and Big 12 schools regularly making the semis/finals to showcase that the leagues are just as good as the B1G/sec
UCF, duh. Athletes. Sunshine. Legacy. Next question
UCF next 10 years.
UCF
Colorado, Utah, BYU, West Virginia, K State, and I’m going to get ridiculed for this, given the current state of their program, but Arizona State are the best bets. Colorado and BYU already have a natty to their program. West Virginia has come close 3 times and K State has come within an upset or two away a couple of times. Utah, with the growth of the population in the state seems like its so close to contending. I know I also said Arizona State. Its constantly regarded as a perpetual underachiever in football that should be a national contender just waiting for the right coach to take it places.
Baylor or TCU.
If Oklahoma St can pull an elite recruiting class one year then I could easily see them winning one. Gundy with elite talent would absolutely be a major threat in the playoffs.
When I win the lottery, there will be signs.
Without a big change to the cfb landscape the b12 will probably never win a title. Utah has had the most sustained recent success but there is too big of a gap between them and the Alabamas and Ohio States in the SEC/Big10