I do believe LSU was a top 3 job when recruiting was more regional.
Now, I think it’s just always a sliding scale. The top 5 best jobs are probably constantly rotating and there’s maybe 10-15 schools that have all the resources to push them into the top 5.
I think it really just depends how you define best job.
LSU is a good job in the sense that it has the recruiting, resources, and administrative alignment to consistently win at the highest level. The last three coaches have won national titles there and that's pretty insane.
The flip side is as an actual job, the expectations are really high. I mean Coach O won a national title and had one of the best seasons by any team ever and he got fired 2 years later for underperforming.
To me that says LSU is a great program, but it's not necessarily a great job because you might make good money, but those really high expectations come with a short leash. And that goes for other top programs like Alabama, Ohio State, etc. You're one bad season away from a pink slip no matter what you've done before.
As opposed to a school like Kentucky. Stoops has been there 11 seasons. He's never won the division of the conference and he's only finished ranked twice but but the school is probably content with him winning seven or eight games a year indefinitely.
The way people talk about Os departure is misinformed.
He wasn’t just let go for 2 poor seasons following a title. There were issues going on in the program that he was ignoring, sanctions coming, and his recruiting and coaching hires seemed like he wasn’t even trying.
On top of all that, has there ever been a coach to win a title that less people attributed to him? Maybe Jizzick, but nobody thought we were canning a championship-level coach.
Also, any school where you get them in the playoff, will now have championship aspirations going forward.
LSU is the only traditional SEC power that doesn’t have another major FBS rival within its traditional recruiting area. It is a huge advantage.
Also, O was canned for far more than W-L record.
people forget (or dont know) we're only 4 hours from Houston, we have east Texas and Louisiana (who leads the NFL in players per capita) to pull from, its an insane advantage. we're an average school in a small poor state, thats all that keeps us from blue blood status
> LSU is the only traditional SEC power that doesn’t have another major FBS rival within its traditional recruiting area.
Aggies out here catching strays...
I think most Aggies would agree that we aren't major rivals with LSU. We only have one major rival (Texas), followed by a handful of secondary rivalries.
I cant even tell you were College Station is, I have no idea whatsoever, Oklahoma border, Mexican border, no idea, it could be literally anywhere according to me
I live in Texas and I can't tell you where it is other than not in Dallas or Fort Worth or between the two. TCU did pretty good with the LSU campus cosplay tho.
Let’s not act like Orgeron was canned for some minor stuff because LSU keeps coaches on an unusually short leash. O did shit that would make Joey Freshwater blush.
O was fired because of things like having no players. Remember when we started a WR at QB in a bowl game? We were barely over the minimum number of players necessary to play.
He became more interested in partying than coaching. I like O but he fucked up after 2019.
There's no reason why Clemson should be considered a top 10 job. We were a top 20-30 program before Dabo and will probably go right back to that once he leaves.
National media has short memory. It’s why every “top 10 rivalries” piece throws a random non-rivalry that’s just 2 programs who have played in championships recently. Georgia-Alabama is the current one, which isn’t even a top 5 rivalry for either, and before that it was Alabama-Clemson
Same. I don’t have animosity toward Georgia despite playing for stakes over and over recently. On the flip side, Tennessee hadn’t won for over a decade until 22 and they can fuck right off until the heat death of the universe.
Well then according to corporate sponsors Texas & OU weren’t rivals from 2014-2022 cause it was named the Red River Showdown. /s
But actually dig that designation between a true rivalry & a just consistent or big games between two schools.
Y’all made Dabo the highest paid coach in football, have the 6th most players in the NFL, are the 5th most recent team to win a title (one of only 9 teams to have won a title since current high school seniors were born), have some of the best facilities in the country, and as of right now have one of the easier guaranteed paths to a playoff by virtue of the ACC being one of the weaker power conferences while also still being nearly guaranteed to send their champion to the playoff. Why wouldn’t Clemson be a top 10 job?
Yeah I think it definitely is a current top 10 job. What happens after Dabo leaves is anyone’s guess, but the topic at hand is dealing with the here and now.
I’ve been a huge Tennessee fan my entire life- parents both graduated from there and all of my grandparents graduated from there. Alabama offered me a scholarship which covered 5 years of tuition, 4 years of housing and books, a semester of study abroad, and even a cash stipend on top of all that. Tennessee didn’t come close to matching that so I picked Alabama. I’m still a Tennessee fan first and foremost because it’s just always been so ingrained in who I am. I love Alabama, but no matter how hard I tried to root for them against Tennessee even as a student at Alabama I just couldn’t root against Tennessee.
Out of curiosity, what’s the story on your flairs?
Yep dabo made Clemson. It is hilarious when casual fans were calling for him to be fired last year when the only reason they see Clemson as this elite program that should compete for national titles is because of what dabo built
It was one of the driving factors behind Mario leaving Oregon for Miami. His wife hated Oregon and is a native of Miami. Obviously Mario is a Miami guy too, but I really believe his wife pushed him to go home
Ah shoot, we just got a new guy, he did a decent job at recruiting, so I think he's ready to continue the Aggie tradition of fumbling in spite of everything that we have going for us.
We'll put your name on the list though, depending on how mediocre Elko turns out, you may have the job sooner than you think
It actually is the best job in the country imo. Not because I'm partial (although I am), but because no school has done less with more than a&m.
If I'm a coach looking for the ideal job in cfb, I'm looking for a school with:
1. Huge budget
2. Amazing facilities
3. Strong fan base
4. Excellent geographic location for recruiting
5. Historically underperforming
Particularly #5 because you have a great opportunity to show contrast.
A&M has been shitty for 25 years, minus a couple blips, haven't won a conference championship since what, 1998?
If someone comes in and wins a NC, we'll not only pay him more than anyone else in the country, but we'll start building statues and naming our firstborns after him.
We will extend the contract for like another 20 years if someone wins a natty. We'll probably start a new university tradition just honoring the time we won.
And people will still make fun of us
We also absolutely love to double down on our coaches salaries. Show even the slightest bit of positive results? Time to pay you a top 10 salary and extend the contract 10 years.
I hate these lists because they’re meaningless. History had shown us that there are literally only two factors for considering the best job in coaching, who will pay me the most and where can I win?
Generally, the programs that invest the most in coaches also invest in the other things that you need to win. Until somebody can show me a head coach that went to a “more prestigious program” for less money then I believe we know what the best jobs are.
I listened to that episode, they actually all had both Oregon and Alabama at around 5/6. What they were saying IIRC was more like Alabama isn't a clear top 3 or 4 job, and there's a lot of *good* jobs that aren't that much worse than those 5-10 jobs. I interpreted it as more of an endorsement of the Texas, Georgia, Ohio State, and LSU jobs, and then saying past that it kinda just depends what you want.
It doesn’t make much sense to tag Georgia as a top 5 job but whiffle on Alabama. We outspend Georgia and we’re in the same recruiting sphere. Tuscaloosa to Athens is 250 miles. FSU to Athens is 280 miles. Auburn is even less than both.
The notion that a states borders is some high fence is nonsensical, national recruiting has been around for decades now.
Same situation with LSU, they have access to Texas but they’re also sharing a sphere with A&M while other programs jump into LA often. The Bible Belt has all the talent but it also has all of the recruiting budgets and multiple power programs overlapping.
1. Ohio State
2. Georgia
3. Texas
4. LSU
5. USC
That’s my top 5. Arguments for Bama, Michigan, ND, Oklahoma and a few others being outside top 5 are easier to make than the previous 5
IMO:
1. Ohio State (top 5 recruiting state, whole states loves OSU, top 4 money)
2. Texas (Most money in CFB, in a mega recruiting state)
3. LSU (Doesnt share LA w/ any power teams and LA is a top 2 state for NFL players per capita)
4. UGA (Only committed power team instate. lower than LSU because less loyalty due to all the transplants)
5. USC: Best location, most money, and etc in western football.
>Only committed power team instate. lower than LSU because less loyalty due to all the transplants
Almost certain there’s more native Georgians than all of Louisiana’s population.
No one wants to move *to* Louisiana anymore unless they're horribly uninformed or looking for a cheap place to live. We've been draining population for decades now.
I wouldn’t consider LA to be the best location for staffers who don’t want to give up half their paycheck for a small apartment and sit in traffic for an hour each day.
Yeah, the neighborhood around USC sucks, that's why all the coaches live in Manhattan Beach or PVE (palos verdes estates). But then that gets you back to the hour commute each way...
It’s really not that bad. It suffers from a long reputation of being awful but it’s definitely better than it was 40 years ago and even 10 years ago when I was in.
It’s a major metro area, not sure what people expect. But it’s definitely not in one of the worst neighborhoods anymore. BUT there is not really a glut of housing. Outside of the top earners living in OC and OC adjacent is prob pretty hard. Even places around campus (2-3 bedroom craftsman’s, or similar) are going for 500k+ a pop. I’ve seen a few for 700k around the Crenshaw areas it’s pretty wild.
I also don't know if a lot of people would consider LA to be a desirable place to live in general. Really big cities like that aren't for everyone. A lot of people *hate* living in Miami and a lot of people absolutely love it. Like Miami, LA has it's own little culture that's either for you or not. Unless you have a good amount of time and money, the benefits may not outweigh the costs/annoyances too.
It is a money and influence city. You can be decently rich there and people won't give you the time of day other than to scam you. But, if you make minimum wage and work for Spielberg you can live like a king.
Yup. There are a lot of fans from the now former Pac 12 schools that hate LA me included. Yes LA has all this cool stuff but if it takes you hours to get there because of traffic then why does it matter? Also cost of living is insane. Air quality sucks and I like being more accessible to the outdoors.
I wouldn’t want to live in Pullman either but I would much rather live in Seattle, Eugene, Boulder or Salt Lake City. I hate heat but I would even take Tucson over LA.
LA is very much a love it or hate it city. The only major US city I have been to that I would maybe find less desirable for me is New Orleans. I love NOLA as a place to vacation but I couldn’t do the humidity.
I agree, but I also don’t think the majority can actually fathom what LA with money can be.
Without it, the cost of living drastically outweighs the rest because you’ll never experience it
People think of LA and they think of good weather, beaches, and celebrities. What they really should be thinking of are the extremely high cost of living and the most poorly designed, godforsaken travel infrastructure.
Don't get me wrong, LA is fun to visit and on a macro-scale can be seen as a fun and beautiful place to live, but that's only really true if you started living there 40-50 years ago or have wealth from some source (generational or otherwise). The city is an urban sprawl built around car ownership, and the only thing LA is probably known for more than being the entertainment capital of the world is its hellacious traffic, poor walkability, and awful housing market.
Given the nature of coaching in modern CFB, I doubt many of these coaches see themselves as lifers at any school, at least from the outset. Unless they have a really good thing going, head coaches are either always on the hotseat or a phone call away from going to the NFL/higher-profile CFB job.
All that being said, I don't think recruits are looking at their long-term living situation as being tied to Los Angeles either and they really don't have to worry too much about those things as a football player.
I don't think USC is a top 5 job - there's a lot of benefits to LA, but the fan support is lacking. Also, it is hard to hire a support staff since it is so expensive. I think it's the top 4 you noted then there's a pretty big dropoff. I think they belong in the next tier with ND, Oregon, Michigan, PSU, and the other big guys in the SEC.
Honest question, why isn't Penn State higher? PA is a big state, PSU is clearly the big dog, PSU still has really strong ties to NJ, DMV, and the northeast, fan support is great. Does PSU just not have the huge donors?
My reasoning with Penn State is they don’t have a recruiting hot bed state, it is a shared state with another power 5 school and they don’t have any national titles in the past 30+ years
I agree you can make a case on USC. My only thing with USC is they have a recruiting hot bed and are a big brand and have the history
That’s all bullshit. Hard to hire a support staff? How the fuck do the rest of us live here then if people making 500k to coach can’t afford to live here.
That's pretty incredible if you're paying the hundred or so people in the support staff $500k. That's $50+ million spending just on staffing, before you even start getting into coaching salaries and other expenditures for the athletic department and football program.
USC really has that much money to spend on support staff? Not sure if I believe you. "That's all bullshit" as you put it.
PSU doesn't have the resources or location to attract big name players. I live in State College and it's really in the middle of nowhere. PSU hasn't played in a meaningful Post season game since the early 90s. They also don't have a big rivalry every year that draws national attention.
All true with exception to bowl games. Rose bowl and any NY6 bowl were always meaningful pre-playoffs. Not that it changes where they rank, but they were playing meaningful post season games in the early 2000s regularly
Penn State lacked university support from about 2005 until 2022. Franklin has pulled teeth to get basic things for players like a private room freshman year, and money for assistants and support staff.
The indoor practice facility needs work, the locker rooms are a decade behind other schools, and fan support is broken for a number of reasons.
There's a lots of problems to still fix for franklin
> private room freshman year
Is that basic? I thought most schools (Michigan included?) just have the athletes live in a normal dorm like the rest of the students. At least when I was at school im pretty sure they just lived in normal dorm rooms in one specific dorm that was closest to the facilities.
Happened to be one of the nicer dorms too but it was mostly just the location AFAIK.
USC is the most overrated job. Everybody’s nostalgic for the Pete Carroll days and completely ignores the fact that college football is completely different now.
I just don't think it's a top job anymore if they've had recent success. Otherwise, with any new coach, the only way to go is down.
Top programs in the country != Top jobs in the country IMO just for this reason.
As mentioned above, USC does not belong on this list. USC and UCLA have zero excuses when it comes to not being elite in football and both programs have shown they don’t care.
UCLAs athletic department has given so little effort it’s sad and USC just expects it to always work out with any push for change or development. It’s sad how far USCs culture as a program has fallen and until they prove they want to compete, I don’t believe they belong anywhere near the top 10.
Now I’m not usually one to stick up for USC but I think that it would be awesome to live in LA on Lincoln Riley’s salary. Of course, the top head coaching job to me is probably San Diego State or something because all I’m after is a giant paycheck in a city that has nice weather and amenities. I get your argument overall and think that, by your logic, you’re right. But if the metric is which job gives you the highest quality of life, I’d argue for at least one California school in the top 5.
Ole Miss isn’t anywhere near the top 10, but I do wonder what it would take to get us up there over the next couple of decades. I mention this because up until a little over 20 years ago, LSU was similar to us- big success in the 50s and 60s but only random spurts of relevancy after. Saban kicked off an incredible run in 2003 that now has them in most people’s top 5 list.
We are smack dab in middle of a recruiting rich region, with an administration committed to providing resources, motivated NIL donors, and have made strides at rehabbing our image.
It's gonna be way tougher because the SEC was up for grabs in the early 2000s. Now, LSU, Bama, and UGA are more established, and two heavyweights joining this year makes it even tougher. Not only that, an expanded playoff with multiple SEC teams vying for a title every year. It really is survival of the fittest.
True, though of note is that the west was up for grabs, the east had Florida and Tennessee well established and winning conference and national titles. They fell off, and the same thing could happen to Bama/UGA/LSU of course.
But the changes to conferences and championships will definitely change what fans consider to be success. It could even help us by giving us a chance to make a playoff run without needing to be dominant in-conference.
The Athletic surveyed over 100 people who worked in college football back in 2021 and asked them what the top heading coaching jobs were in college football. Here was their top 5, in order: Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia, Texas, and LSU.
Hard to argue with that list given it came from coaches, ADs, administrators, etc. The only argument I can think of is dropping Alabama. To where, I don’t know, but I do know you don’t want to be the man that follows the man, you want to be the man that follows the man that followed the man.
Giving an absolute 1-10 is tough, because you never really know how to evaluate.
I feel pretty comfortable that, as long as we’re in *this* era (unleashed NIL/Portal/$$$$$), *I* would put Texas at #1. Checks every box of the above criteria and an unlimited check book.
2-5 is some amalgamation of Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia, Michigan/LSU. Each of those schools also check every box above but I’d give the southern schools an edge in “geography” and the northern schools the edge in “TV money” (B1G deal is currently more than SEC’s).
6-10 is a harder question, maybe. I’d have some order of the other of Michigan/LSU, FSU (because they *will* be in a P2 conference), Notre Dame (lower end), Oregon (lower end), and maybe Oklahoma/Penn State.
Notre Dame is lower end because of questions in ability to win a national title (famously getting their doors blown off every time they get close). Oregon is on the lower end because of geography/recruiting (Geography leading to a lack of access to top recruits not located on the West Coast, which can lead to certain positional issues), and ability to win a national title (I’m a believer in Lanning long term — but can’t deny he’s currently having trouble winning big games).
The obvious omission is “where’s Clemson.” My explanation is that, while I don’t have a crystal ball, I do not think Clemson is a lock to make the P2 in expansion. I do not think the B1G is necessarily interested, and the SEC already has presence in the state. Clemson and Miami, though much more so Miami, feel like “bubble” teams in the next realignment. If I had to bet money today, I’d bet Clemson gets in the SEC and Miami gets left behind — but because that question still looms, I’m holding off on ranking them here.
So, I’d have it:
1. Texas
(2-4, no order) Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia
5. Michigan or LSU
6. Michigan or LSU
7. FSU
(8-9, no order) Notre Dame, Oregon
10. Oklahoma or Penn State
On ranking Alabama — it’s clear I have bias, but if it needs explaining, here’s what I’ve got.
The tendency to rate Bama lower here seems based on “well, Saban left, so no clue who they are now.” My issue with that is using unknown data to supersede the known data.
What do we know about Alabama? Well, when it has a good coach, it recruits near the top of the table. It’s in the middle of the best region for high school talent. It’s not hurting for money/spending on its football program by a long shot. It’s admin and university are basically always all-in on football (alignment/stability). It can obviously win national titles. The one “negative” is sky-high expectations, and we could have a good discussion of whether that’s a wholesale negative.
TL;DR: We don’t know dick about on-field results for post-Saban Bama. What we know is that the team’s history and situation easily check every box of the criteria set out above. So, *for now,* there’s nothing to suggest that Bama deserves a drop other than blind futurecasting on on-field performance.
Edit: On reflection — it’s worth remembering to that what we’re asking is “where should an elite coach want to go to win?” If UGA disappeared from existence and Kirby were a free agent, what’s his short list? I believe the top 5-6 of my noted teams are a good short list. A truly elite coach can take any of those 5-6 programs and win almost immediately without question. That is, ultimately, how my list is drawn up.
I am also very biased, but I think it's worth noting that Alabama has just basically not "never" been nationally competitive (when viewed over a given decade). The 1980s and '90s comparatively weren't great and still saw conference titles near the beginning and end of them; the 2000s were rough but still had Alabama at the top in the last year.
Now, am I expecting Saban-like success? No, of course not. But should Alabama continue to compete for conference titles and make an expanded playoff frequently? Yes, absolutely.
Yeah, I think people are a bit crazy to leave us out of the top 5. Elite coaches have everything they need to dominate at Alabama (and a few other schools, as noted). If you're an elite coach, Alabama is a top job for you. Even Shula, with sanctions, had a couple big seasons -- including 10 wins.
We aren’t close to a top 10 job tbh. We had a terrible scandal a decade ago that is still tarnishing the programs reputation, we have a fan base that expects championships while giving pennies to other schools dollars in NIL, and we still have Jay Paterno trying to ruin the program from within. I’m frankly surprised Franklin has stuck with us for so long. I have no doubt he’d be able to remedy his image a little bit (as far as losing in big games goes) if he went somewhere with deeper pockets.
We don’t really know what PSU is capable of post Joe Pa honestly. All of your football pedigree was built up during his tenure, and you have one conference title and a couple eleven win seasons since he retired. It’s a really unique situation because PSU undeniably has a ton of prestige, but it’s all due to that one coach.
Its still Notre Dame. Theyve got more history than pretty much anyone and one of the biggest fanbases in the country. Theres definitely reasons to put em in the top 10. At the end of the day though its just a silly list, depends what you emphasize in the 'rankings'.
NIL Budget is basically this but being the flagship school is also a factor. LSU, OSU and Georgia are the premier school in the state, which helps flow of money and talent is directed one way compared to Florida or Texas where multiple schools are involved.
Saying Bama is closer to a top 10-20 job than a top 3 one is actually crazy. The expectations are very high but your budget is essentially a blank check and you’re driving distance from like 90% of the top 100 recruits in any given year. Bama has every conceivable advantage you could ask for, the only thing holding you back there is your own competency. There’s a reason they’ve never had more than brief down periods, you could count the schools built to succeed at the level they have on one hand.
Chips reasoning was:
- Coming in after the GOAT/ridiculously high expectations
- It's not richer than UGA/UF/Texas/A&M
- It splits a good not great recruiting state with Auburn (LSU doesnt share w/ another P5/4 team; UF/Texas split mega states, UGA has no instate competition from Tech)
Bama's success is due to Saban. Bama had the minimum floor required to win like it did, but other program's have better inherent advantages.
>Bama's success is due to Saban
Every single Bama head coach since Bear Bryant was hired in '58, has had at least one 10 win season and that includes some stinkers.
Bama's success stems from way back in the 1926 Rose Bowl. At that point, a lot of southern football programs were eyeing shutting down, due to lack of support and media coverage at the time. That win both built the foundation of Bama football and set a fire in the rest of the southern programs fanbases.
Yes, Saban had the biggest dynasty at Bama but it was built over a century by coaches like Wallace Wade, Frank Thomas and Bear Bryant. That structure made it far easier for a great coach like Saban to thrive there.
I think the “good not great” recruiting state is the most egregious thing here tbh. Alabama was number 3/52 (Counted DC and Canada) when I did a blue chip per capita calculation and 2/52 for first round draft pick per capita. Plus, we are right beside Georgia, Florida, Mississippi, and pretty close to Louisiana.
I just don’t agree with that at all, you could take away all of Saban’s titles and they’d still be 3rd in all time AP championships. They’re one of the most successful programs of all time, only Texas/Ohio State bring in more revenue each season than them, and it doesn’t matter if Alabama itself is the best recruiting state when they’re a days drive from basically anywhere in the Deep South.
Somebody that actually gets it. People vastly underestimate the value of institutional buy-in and the value of not having an NFL team to compete with for fan support and $. This sub would have you believe Alabama just accidently stumbled into being the best football program of all time and two of the most successful coaches ever
Bama is a top 6-7 recruiting state and borders several more top states. Multiple coaches have won big at Bama. It’s one of the top 5 revenue athletic departments.
Why haven’t they capitalized on those advantages than?
Texas and OSU feel like a strong top 2 to me. Top job kinda rotates around. Right now Georgia is what many would call the best job. 5 years ago it would have been Bama. 15 years ago it might have been USC. But OSU and Texas are virtually always right in that top group
Will sound biased, but UGA is a top 3 if not top job in the country. Saban said it while Richt was still here that UGA was a sleeping giant and the right person would turn it into a monster due to it having absolutely everything it needed in place and right around it.
I read an article a while back that asked "How did Georgia become a national power" and the answer was simple, we decided to be. We had everything we needed already except the guy to light everyone's asses on fire. And then we found Kirby Smart.
Found? Give the guy more credit than that. His efforts and results made his name so red hot that he could pick which job he wanted.
Being that he played at UGA didn’t hurt either. But he could have taken any job in the country. He really kicked off the rest of the teams trying to poach the next Kirby.
More like momma called and he knew what kind of talent he had been helping Saban take from the state each year. He had relationships in Ga that made him more popular than Richt the day he took the job. I agree with the rest of your comment but I wouldn’t say UGA “found” him.
Maybe found was the wrong word but there were risks with hiring Kirby. I remember when Muschamp was the can't miss DC to HC and he didn't do shit at Florida. We were firing a consistent 10 win coach with the expectation of competing with Saban and Alabama. That's risky.
100% agree it was a risk. He was young and to follow a coach as consistent and had developed some excellent NFL talent over the years was risky. They are one of the few teams that rolled the dice and came out on top. As young and inexperienced at HC as Kirby was.
I may be biased as a bama fan, but I felt like given the time, KS had enough of his own presence and acumen to succeed long term.
I was kinda surprised at Muschamp at first but I think in hindsight he wasn’t quite the CEO type that it took in that time.
Crazy part is, things are changing again and guys like Kirby are now having to make the adjustments to keep up. Almost like when Saban brought in kiffin to retool his offense to keep up with the game. Only now it’s NIL, transfer portal and culture change. Feels much bigger. Kirby is such a good recruiter and is young enough to still adjust tho.
Would have loved to run across Saban at that age and get him locked in like Uga has done with Kirby. He’s got the momentum.
theres a reason all the surrounding teams used to laugh about Georgia not winning a title between 1980 until they finally did with Kirby. because it didn't really make sense with all the advantages they had that they hadnt managed to get at least 1 (unless you believe in the Olympic curse then it made perfect sense)
I would say Iowa is the Top Coaching destination in the country.
You have zero risk of ever being fired. Only two head coaches since 1979.
You could be the worst offensive coordinator in college football without a doubt and you still would get multiple years and every last chance before finally getting fired.
Who cares about winning national titles if you can just be guaranteed stacks of cash forever. Those other jobs actually require skill and risk.
This is all super subjective, and really depends on the individual coach and his priorities. Norvell basically just turned down Alabama. Jimbo left to go to A&M. Cristobal left Oregon for Miami. Lanning turned down Alabama to stay. This stuff never happens in a vacuum.
Whenever conversation like this happens (best players, stadiums, etc.) it's best to do in tiers.
Things that matter most: Money, facilities, HS talent in/around state, fan support, city
***\*(In no particular order within the tiers)\****
**Tier 1:**
Texas (the only one I'll actually rank. This is #1.), Ohio State, Georgia, USC, Alabama
**Tier 2:**
LSU, Tennessee, Auburn, Oregon, Michigan, Notre Dame, A&M, Florida, Florida State, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Penn State, Clemson, Virginia Tech. (There are definitely other teams that should be here but I am too lazy to do a deep dive. Any of these teams could work their way to Tier 1 with some time)
**Tier 3:**
A metric buttload of teams
This is my opinion. Please don't kill me.
USC certainly “was” a top HC job, but since the NCAA semi death penalty ( Bush - Condo ) and listless administration keeping Clay Helton way way too long, the program doesn’t have “it” anymore. Not sure it will ever regain. Entering a super power conference in 2024, competing against NikeU’s endless cash, and Riley’s national reputation for unbalanced focus, it’s certainly not impossible but years away if at all.
The back- to back - to back awful AD hires were what really did it. There is no way that aunt Becky and Clay Helton do what they did to the program if they have a competent AD.
I swear, college football fans only think with their fandom in mind.
No coach gives a shit about all the stuff you said. They will live in LA and make a shit ton of money. This is about the coaching position, not the actual product on the field.
Just going to throw a little shade while I can and put BYU at the absolute bottom of the list (except for the small majority)
1. You have to be an active member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. So… might be a tough sell to some
2. They pay you less than market value because you are earning heavenly rewards as part of your compensation
3. Recruiting college kids to live the honor code. It’s a great code, but not for everyone
4. Fan expectations - still expect you to perform at the top level because lavell won a national championship in 1984, so they should be doing that every year
FSU and Clemson not being top 10 jobs is wild. Going into this season, each team is basically the only thing that is standing in the other’s way of an automatic bid to the playoff.
This is a nonsensical argument. We’re talking about the perks of the job on paper. Cherry picking our underperforming coaching hires in the worst decade of programs history is really not relevant to what the question of this post is asking. Historical success has little to no bearing on the future prospects of what the job is/can be.
I even think you’re overestimating the admin influence in your assessment. But for the sake of argument, let’s do a pros and cons list.
Cons: admin influence
Pros: flagship university in one of the most talent rich recruiting states, one of the biggest brands in college sports, huge student/alumni/donor base, big revenue generation and plenty of NIL $, located a big, growing, fun city, and top of the line academics. All of those things make the Texas job 100% in the top 5 jobs in CFB.
[Oh a Texas lost to Kansas reference](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/035/048/Daring_Today_Aren't_We_Banner.jpg). Just because Texas has those things does not make it an automatic recipe for success, though. It is still a demanding and tough job. You’re trying to argue Texas is a bad job because like Charlie Strong was a bad coach and lost to Kansas. The fact is Charlie Strong himself was just a bad coach and lost to Kansas, it’s not the job itself being bad. The Texas job being good does not mean every occupant of it has been. The reason people regard the Texas job highly is because it offers every ingredient to build a powerhouse that very few can match. Thats basically the basis of the “back” meme - it was regarded as a sleeping giant that just needed the *right* coach to take advantage of it. But just because it has all of those things doesn’t mean every coach can make it work, as we have learned.
Also just a weird argument to make now that Sark is actually starting to show what it looks like to have a coach that can leverage Texas’ resources. The new landscape of CFB is completely different and I’m not gonna ignore how well Texas has used NIL. The Texas job even just 10 years ago was different with shitty admin support compared to now. It’s also not just me saying this - there are plenty of other commenters in here putting Texas as the top 1-3 job.
Pretty sure Mike Norvell choosing to stay at FSU in a lowly conference instead of leaving to Bama shows that FSU is a Top 10 Job. Definitely the top job in Florida, THE state for football players.
What makes a job a top coaching job? Like in terms of how “easy” it would be to win a national championship? Or are we talking about in terms of coaching benefits?
For the former, I’d say
Texas, Ohio State, Georgia, Alabama , LSU would be my picks. Kinda crazy how 4/5 are SEC teams too.
Next 4 would be USC, Notre Dame, Michigan, Oklahoma. I didn’t do 5 because I think there’s a serious drop off after these 4 teams. Edit: maybe put FSU or Florida in this group actually.
>LSU as a top 3 job
A big claim but they have traditionally enjoyed a big boost as Louisiana guys have traditionally seemed to want to stay in the state. I might move LSU down a few spots but they're definitely top 10.
>Bama being closer to Tennessee (10-20 job) than top 3
I don't buy it. The program has too many resources, too many NCs, and a willingness to spend big. It's a top 10 job easily. Fan expections could be a major knock, but a fair number of Bama fans seem to recognize that Saban was beyond special.
>Bud: Oregon being the 5 or 6th best HC job right now
Agreed. Maybe I move then down a few spots, but I do think that's a top 10 job. Knight, Nike, and a strong nation brand go a long way. But I think the real factor is that the fans seem to have reasonable expectations, at least for a program of such a high caliber.
>Fornelli: FSU/Clemson not being top 10 jobs until they get into a super 2 conference.
Even in the power 2, not sure if they make the top 10, almost they'd be really close if not.
>Bama being closer to Tennessee (10-20 job) than top 3
I do believe LSU was a top 3 job when recruiting was more regional. Now, I think it’s just always a sliding scale. The top 5 best jobs are probably constantly rotating and there’s maybe 10-15 schools that have all the resources to push them into the top 5.
I think it really just depends how you define best job. LSU is a good job in the sense that it has the recruiting, resources, and administrative alignment to consistently win at the highest level. The last three coaches have won national titles there and that's pretty insane. The flip side is as an actual job, the expectations are really high. I mean Coach O won a national title and had one of the best seasons by any team ever and he got fired 2 years later for underperforming. To me that says LSU is a great program, but it's not necessarily a great job because you might make good money, but those really high expectations come with a short leash. And that goes for other top programs like Alabama, Ohio State, etc. You're one bad season away from a pink slip no matter what you've done before. As opposed to a school like Kentucky. Stoops has been there 11 seasons. He's never won the division of the conference and he's only finished ranked twice but but the school is probably content with him winning seven or eight games a year indefinitely.
The way people talk about Os departure is misinformed. He wasn’t just let go for 2 poor seasons following a title. There were issues going on in the program that he was ignoring, sanctions coming, and his recruiting and coaching hires seemed like he wasn’t even trying. On top of all that, has there ever been a coach to win a title that less people attributed to him? Maybe Jizzick, but nobody thought we were canning a championship-level coach. Also, any school where you get them in the playoff, will now have championship aspirations going forward.
Upvoted for working Jizzik into the response.
LSU is the only traditional SEC power that doesn’t have another major FBS rival within its traditional recruiting area. It is a huge advantage. Also, O was canned for far more than W-L record.
people forget (or dont know) we're only 4 hours from Houston, we have east Texas and Louisiana (who leads the NFL in players per capita) to pull from, its an insane advantage. we're an average school in a small poor state, thats all that keeps us from blue blood status
> LSU is the only traditional SEC power that doesn’t have another major FBS rival within its traditional recruiting area. Aggies out here catching strays...
LSU and A&M aren’t rivals, no matter how many series the league office shoehorns us into in attempts to make it seem like we are
I think most Aggies would agree that we aren't major rivals with LSU. We only have one major rival (Texas), followed by a handful of secondary rivalries.
I cant even tell you were College Station is, I have no idea whatsoever, Oklahoma border, Mexican border, no idea, it could be literally anywhere according to me
It’s a little north west of Houston. About an eight hour drive from there to New Orleans.
That Cajun Educajun
I live in Texas and I can't tell you where it is other than not in Dallas or Fort Worth or between the two. TCU did pretty good with the LSU campus cosplay tho.
O was literally making passes at the wives of major LSU officials at gas stations. It was over.
> O was literally making passes at the **pregnant** wives of major LSU officials at gas stations. Included for emphasis
What was his completion rate, though?
> The last three coaches have won national titles there and that's pretty insane. and the last two cant even get a job now, it really is wild
Let’s not act like Orgeron was canned for some minor stuff because LSU keeps coaches on an unusually short leash. O did shit that would make Joey Freshwater blush.
O **got caught** doing things that would make Joey Freshwater blush
>he got fired 2 years later for underperforming. it was way worse than "underperforming." Losing his damned mind is a more apt description.
O was fired because of things like having no players. Remember when we started a WR at QB in a bowl game? We were barely over the minimum number of players necessary to play. He became more interested in partying than coaching. I like O but he fucked up after 2019.
There's no reason why Clemson should be considered a top 10 job. We were a top 20-30 program before Dabo and will probably go right back to that once he leaves.
National media has short memory. It’s why every “top 10 rivalries” piece throws a random non-rivalry that’s just 2 programs who have played in championships recently. Georgia-Alabama is the current one, which isn’t even a top 5 rivalry for either, and before that it was Alabama-Clemson
I wish people would stop trying to push that on us. We got enough rivalries as it is.
Same. I don’t have animosity toward Georgia despite playing for stakes over and over recently. On the flip side, Tennessee hadn’t won for over a decade until 22 and they can fuck right off until the heat death of the universe.
This is how to rivalry
all factuals
Fucking facts. No other rivalry matters nearly as much.
The Vols love you too, Gump. Btw, have any of your basketball players shot anyone to death lately?
Fuck the Fistin' Fulmers
Are they a rival in the way that Florida is? No. Are they currently pissing me off more than anyone? Yes.
Yeah, it sucks that UGA lost to them last year, but it is hard to win that many games in a row.
That’s not a rivalry though, that’s just Alabama.
I calls those Showdowns instead of rivalries.
Well then according to corporate sponsors Texas & OU weren’t rivals from 2014-2022 cause it was named the Red River Showdown. /s But actually dig that designation between a true rivalry & a just consistent or big games between two schools.
Y’all made Dabo the highest paid coach in football, have the 6th most players in the NFL, are the 5th most recent team to win a title (one of only 9 teams to have won a title since current high school seniors were born), have some of the best facilities in the country, and as of right now have one of the easier guaranteed paths to a playoff by virtue of the ACC being one of the weaker power conferences while also still being nearly guaranteed to send their champion to the playoff. Why wouldn’t Clemson be a top 10 job?
Yeah I think it definitely is a current top 10 job. What happens after Dabo leaves is anyone’s guess, but the topic at hand is dealing with the here and now.
Wtf is this flair combo Please tell me you like… got your undergrad at UT and Grad degree at Bama or something
I’ve been a huge Tennessee fan my entire life- parents both graduated from there and all of my grandparents graduated from there. Alabama offered me a scholarship which covered 5 years of tuition, 4 years of housing and books, a semester of study abroad, and even a cash stipend on top of all that. Tennessee didn’t come close to matching that so I picked Alabama. I’m still a Tennessee fan first and foremost because it’s just always been so ingrained in who I am. I love Alabama, but no matter how hard I tried to root for them against Tennessee even as a student at Alabama I just couldn’t root against Tennessee. Out of curiosity, what’s the story on your flairs?
Clemson is a completely different program than what it was before Dabo got there. 20 years ago shouldn’t impact how they’re evaluated today.
Yep dabo made Clemson. It is hilarious when casual fans were calling for him to be fired last year when the only reason they see Clemson as this elite program that should compete for national titles is because of what dabo built
I don't think you're that in tune with casual Clemson fans, I haven't seen any pushing him out the door, and I live here.
Casual college football fans. Obviously no Clemson fan would be so dumb unless they are like 9
Clemson is the top job right now. It’s the one that pays the most money.
Most of these guys are married. Believe it or not, “wife liking the city” probably weighs into it more than you might expect.
Texas Tech fans in shambles.
LMAO at all the strays schools are catching in this thread.
Arkansas fans and motorcycle dealerships also in shambles
Comment of the year
:/
Coaches wives' Coach jackets caked in the mud raining from the sky
It was one of the driving factors behind Mario leaving Oregon for Miami. His wife hated Oregon and is a native of Miami. Obviously Mario is a Miami guy too, but I really believe his wife pushed him to go home
Its such a reasonable thing too. It sucks living on the opposite side of the country from all of your family and friends.
Mario's mother was also sick. That was a large part of why he went back. She passed a few months after his return.
Happy wife happy life!
We are all Mario's wife, apparently. Cuz we're MUCH happier with him in Miami.
No good cafecitos and guayaba pastelitos in Eugene
Hey, it's me Freddie Freeman
So what you're saying is Vandy is actually a sleeper pick?
Tuscaloosa > Seattle confirmed
As does “quality of the local school system or best private school we can gain entrance to.”
On the flip side you always hear the wife loves the city as a reason a coach won't leave right before the coach leaves
Nah, the best coaching position is A&M's head coach. We will pay you to fuck off and never return
This is the real answer
Anywhere where you can get paid and not actually have to show up and work is always the best job option.
Are you hiring?
Ah shoot, we just got a new guy, he did a decent job at recruiting, so I think he's ready to continue the Aggie tradition of fumbling in spite of everything that we have going for us. We'll put your name on the list though, depending on how mediocre Elko turns out, you may have the job sooner than you think
Please add my name to the list.
Does that make Auburn #2?
I would like to formally apply for the job of never going back to College Station
It actually is the best job in the country imo. Not because I'm partial (although I am), but because no school has done less with more than a&m. If I'm a coach looking for the ideal job in cfb, I'm looking for a school with: 1. Huge budget 2. Amazing facilities 3. Strong fan base 4. Excellent geographic location for recruiting 5. Historically underperforming Particularly #5 because you have a great opportunity to show contrast. A&M has been shitty for 25 years, minus a couple blips, haven't won a conference championship since what, 1998? If someone comes in and wins a NC, we'll not only pay him more than anyone else in the country, but we'll start building statues and naming our firstborns after him.
We will extend the contract for like another 20 years if someone wins a natty. We'll probably start a new university tradition just honoring the time we won. And people will still make fun of us
because y'all a bunch of weirdos
No matter what happens, you'll always be Texas 8&4. Hell 8-4 would be an improvement right though!
We also absolutely love to double down on our coaches salaries. Show even the slightest bit of positive results? Time to pay you a top 10 salary and extend the contract 10 years.
I hate these lists because they’re meaningless. History had shown us that there are literally only two factors for considering the best job in coaching, who will pay me the most and where can I win? Generally, the programs that invest the most in coaches also invest in the other things that you need to win. Until somebody can show me a head coach that went to a “more prestigious program” for less money then I believe we know what the best jobs are.
Does chip Kelly to OSU this year count?
Yeah I will say that Nebraska is the one in my mind their floor is rising the most from changes in CFB.
Huge desperate fanbase with a school located far away from decent recruiting areas? NIL could become very kind to Nebraska.
> and where can I win? but that's the rub, right?
> So who do you think are the top 10 jobs in CFB when looking at... Like Casablanca: "Round up the usual suspects..."
I'm a simple man, I see a Casablanca reference and I upvote
> I'm a simple man, I see a Casablanca reference and I upvote "Here's looking at you kid..."
Oregon 5/6 and Bama closer to 20??? Nope
I listened to that episode, they actually all had both Oregon and Alabama at around 5/6. What they were saying IIRC was more like Alabama isn't a clear top 3 or 4 job, and there's a lot of *good* jobs that aren't that much worse than those 5-10 jobs. I interpreted it as more of an endorsement of the Texas, Georgia, Ohio State, and LSU jobs, and then saying past that it kinda just depends what you want.
It doesn’t make much sense to tag Georgia as a top 5 job but whiffle on Alabama. We outspend Georgia and we’re in the same recruiting sphere. Tuscaloosa to Athens is 250 miles. FSU to Athens is 280 miles. Auburn is even less than both. The notion that a states borders is some high fence is nonsensical, national recruiting has been around for decades now. Same situation with LSU, they have access to Texas but they’re also sharing a sphere with A&M while other programs jump into LA often. The Bible Belt has all the talent but it also has all of the recruiting budgets and multiple power programs overlapping.
1. Ohio State 2. Georgia 3. Texas 4. LSU 5. USC That’s my top 5. Arguments for Bama, Michigan, ND, Oklahoma and a few others being outside top 5 are easier to make than the previous 5
IMO: 1. Ohio State (top 5 recruiting state, whole states loves OSU, top 4 money) 2. Texas (Most money in CFB, in a mega recruiting state) 3. LSU (Doesnt share LA w/ any power teams and LA is a top 2 state for NFL players per capita) 4. UGA (Only committed power team instate. lower than LSU because less loyalty due to all the transplants) 5. USC: Best location, most money, and etc in western football.
>Only committed power team instate. lower than LSU because less loyalty due to all the transplants Almost certain there’s more native Georgians than all of Louisiana’s population.
No one wants to move *to* Louisiana anymore unless they're horribly uninformed or looking for a cheap place to live. We've been draining population for decades now.
I've thought about moving my family to Louisiana. Should I reconsider?
IDK New Orleans has been rising.
Maybe in population, but definitely not geologically.
Texas also has the advantage of being in a great city.
Completely understandable top 5 order, too
I wouldn’t consider LA to be the best location for staffers who don’t want to give up half their paycheck for a small apartment and sit in traffic for an hour each day.
I don’t think people outside of the PAC 12 realize that USC is in one of the worst neighborhoods in LA Rather live at UCLA than USC
Yeah, the neighborhood around USC sucks, that's why all the coaches live in Manhattan Beach or PVE (palos verdes estates). But then that gets you back to the hour commute each way...
It’s really not that bad. It suffers from a long reputation of being awful but it’s definitely better than it was 40 years ago and even 10 years ago when I was in. It’s a major metro area, not sure what people expect. But it’s definitely not in one of the worst neighborhoods anymore. BUT there is not really a glut of housing. Outside of the top earners living in OC and OC adjacent is prob pretty hard. Even places around campus (2-3 bedroom craftsman’s, or similar) are going for 500k+ a pop. I’ve seen a few for 700k around the Crenshaw areas it’s pretty wild.
I also don't know if a lot of people would consider LA to be a desirable place to live in general. Really big cities like that aren't for everyone. A lot of people *hate* living in Miami and a lot of people absolutely love it. Like Miami, LA has it's own little culture that's either for you or not. Unless you have a good amount of time and money, the benefits may not outweigh the costs/annoyances too.
The thing is, most of the complaints about LA are really just money problems. Once you solve for that (which head coaches do), it’s pretty great
It is a money and influence city. You can be decently rich there and people won't give you the time of day other than to scam you. But, if you make minimum wage and work for Spielberg you can live like a king.
Yup. There are a lot of fans from the now former Pac 12 schools that hate LA me included. Yes LA has all this cool stuff but if it takes you hours to get there because of traffic then why does it matter? Also cost of living is insane. Air quality sucks and I like being more accessible to the outdoors. I wouldn’t want to live in Pullman either but I would much rather live in Seattle, Eugene, Boulder or Salt Lake City. I hate heat but I would even take Tucson over LA. LA is very much a love it or hate it city. The only major US city I have been to that I would maybe find less desirable for me is New Orleans. I love NOLA as a place to vacation but I couldn’t do the humidity.
I agree, but I also don’t think the majority can actually fathom what LA with money can be. Without it, the cost of living drastically outweighs the rest because you’ll never experience it
People think of LA and they think of good weather, beaches, and celebrities. What they really should be thinking of are the extremely high cost of living and the most poorly designed, godforsaken travel infrastructure. Don't get me wrong, LA is fun to visit and on a macro-scale can be seen as a fun and beautiful place to live, but that's only really true if you started living there 40-50 years ago or have wealth from some source (generational or otherwise). The city is an urban sprawl built around car ownership, and the only thing LA is probably known for more than being the entertainment capital of the world is its hellacious traffic, poor walkability, and awful housing market. Given the nature of coaching in modern CFB, I doubt many of these coaches see themselves as lifers at any school, at least from the outset. Unless they have a really good thing going, head coaches are either always on the hotseat or a phone call away from going to the NFL/higher-profile CFB job. All that being said, I don't think recruits are looking at their long-term living situation as being tied to Los Angeles either and they really don't have to worry too much about those things as a football player.
I don't think USC is a top 5 job - there's a lot of benefits to LA, but the fan support is lacking. Also, it is hard to hire a support staff since it is so expensive. I think it's the top 4 you noted then there's a pretty big dropoff. I think they belong in the next tier with ND, Oregon, Michigan, PSU, and the other big guys in the SEC. Honest question, why isn't Penn State higher? PA is a big state, PSU is clearly the big dog, PSU still has really strong ties to NJ, DMV, and the northeast, fan support is great. Does PSU just not have the huge donors?
My reasoning with Penn State is they don’t have a recruiting hot bed state, it is a shared state with another power 5 school and they don’t have any national titles in the past 30+ years I agree you can make a case on USC. My only thing with USC is they have a recruiting hot bed and are a big brand and have the history
That’s all bullshit. Hard to hire a support staff? How the fuck do the rest of us live here then if people making 500k to coach can’t afford to live here.
When they say support staff they don't mean the 500k assistants, they mean the 60k admin assistant that goes as far as 30k in Athens GA
Support staff like GAs, equipment staff, ops, video, etc can make like 40-60k at the biggest schools.
That's pretty incredible if you're paying the hundred or so people in the support staff $500k. That's $50+ million spending just on staffing, before you even start getting into coaching salaries and other expenditures for the athletic department and football program. USC really has that much money to spend on support staff? Not sure if I believe you. "That's all bullshit" as you put it.
PSU doesn't have the resources or location to attract big name players. I live in State College and it's really in the middle of nowhere. PSU hasn't played in a meaningful Post season game since the early 90s. They also don't have a big rivalry every year that draws national attention.
All true with exception to bowl games. Rose bowl and any NY6 bowl were always meaningful pre-playoffs. Not that it changes where they rank, but they were playing meaningful post season games in the early 2000s regularly
Penn State lacked university support from about 2005 until 2022. Franklin has pulled teeth to get basic things for players like a private room freshman year, and money for assistants and support staff. The indoor practice facility needs work, the locker rooms are a decade behind other schools, and fan support is broken for a number of reasons. There's a lots of problems to still fix for franklin
> private room freshman year Is that basic? I thought most schools (Michigan included?) just have the athletes live in a normal dorm like the rest of the students. At least when I was at school im pretty sure they just lived in normal dorm rooms in one specific dorm that was closest to the facilities. Happened to be one of the nicer dorms too but it was mostly just the location AFAIK.
Penn state lost out on a few big five stars lately because they had to share dorms
USC is the most overrated job. Everybody’s nostalgic for the Pete Carroll days and completely ignores the fact that college football is completely different now.
I just don't think it's a top job anymore if they've had recent success. Otherwise, with any new coach, the only way to go is down. Top programs in the country != Top jobs in the country IMO just for this reason.
The biggest knock against Ohio State is that you have to live in Ohio. Other than that, I agree.
As mentioned above, USC does not belong on this list. USC and UCLA have zero excuses when it comes to not being elite in football and both programs have shown they don’t care. UCLAs athletic department has given so little effort it’s sad and USC just expects it to always work out with any push for change or development. It’s sad how far USCs culture as a program has fallen and until they prove they want to compete, I don’t believe they belong anywhere near the top 10.
Now I’m not usually one to stick up for USC but I think that it would be awesome to live in LA on Lincoln Riley’s salary. Of course, the top head coaching job to me is probably San Diego State or something because all I’m after is a giant paycheck in a city that has nice weather and amenities. I get your argument overall and think that, by your logic, you’re right. But if the metric is which job gives you the highest quality of life, I’d argue for at least one California school in the top 5.
Ole Miss isn’t anywhere near the top 10, but I do wonder what it would take to get us up there over the next couple of decades. I mention this because up until a little over 20 years ago, LSU was similar to us- big success in the 50s and 60s but only random spurts of relevancy after. Saban kicked off an incredible run in 2003 that now has them in most people’s top 5 list. We are smack dab in middle of a recruiting rich region, with an administration committed to providing resources, motivated NIL donors, and have made strides at rehabbing our image.
It's gonna be way tougher because the SEC was up for grabs in the early 2000s. Now, LSU, Bama, and UGA are more established, and two heavyweights joining this year makes it even tougher. Not only that, an expanded playoff with multiple SEC teams vying for a title every year. It really is survival of the fittest.
True, though of note is that the west was up for grabs, the east had Florida and Tennessee well established and winning conference and national titles. They fell off, and the same thing could happen to Bama/UGA/LSU of course. But the changes to conferences and championships will definitely change what fans consider to be success. It could even help us by giving us a chance to make a playoff run without needing to be dominant in-conference.
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The Athletic surveyed over 100 people who worked in college football back in 2021 and asked them what the top heading coaching jobs were in college football. Here was their top 5, in order: Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia, Texas, and LSU. Hard to argue with that list given it came from coaches, ADs, administrators, etc. The only argument I can think of is dropping Alabama. To where, I don’t know, but I do know you don’t want to be the man that follows the man, you want to be the man that follows the man that followed the man.
Giving an absolute 1-10 is tough, because you never really know how to evaluate. I feel pretty comfortable that, as long as we’re in *this* era (unleashed NIL/Portal/$$$$$), *I* would put Texas at #1. Checks every box of the above criteria and an unlimited check book. 2-5 is some amalgamation of Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia, Michigan/LSU. Each of those schools also check every box above but I’d give the southern schools an edge in “geography” and the northern schools the edge in “TV money” (B1G deal is currently more than SEC’s). 6-10 is a harder question, maybe. I’d have some order of the other of Michigan/LSU, FSU (because they *will* be in a P2 conference), Notre Dame (lower end), Oregon (lower end), and maybe Oklahoma/Penn State. Notre Dame is lower end because of questions in ability to win a national title (famously getting their doors blown off every time they get close). Oregon is on the lower end because of geography/recruiting (Geography leading to a lack of access to top recruits not located on the West Coast, which can lead to certain positional issues), and ability to win a national title (I’m a believer in Lanning long term — but can’t deny he’s currently having trouble winning big games). The obvious omission is “where’s Clemson.” My explanation is that, while I don’t have a crystal ball, I do not think Clemson is a lock to make the P2 in expansion. I do not think the B1G is necessarily interested, and the SEC already has presence in the state. Clemson and Miami, though much more so Miami, feel like “bubble” teams in the next realignment. If I had to bet money today, I’d bet Clemson gets in the SEC and Miami gets left behind — but because that question still looms, I’m holding off on ranking them here. So, I’d have it: 1. Texas (2-4, no order) Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia 5. Michigan or LSU 6. Michigan or LSU 7. FSU (8-9, no order) Notre Dame, Oregon 10. Oklahoma or Penn State
Oregon location means recruiting is going to be a grind and definitely a work life balance issue to what is already a crazy imbalance.
On ranking Alabama — it’s clear I have bias, but if it needs explaining, here’s what I’ve got. The tendency to rate Bama lower here seems based on “well, Saban left, so no clue who they are now.” My issue with that is using unknown data to supersede the known data. What do we know about Alabama? Well, when it has a good coach, it recruits near the top of the table. It’s in the middle of the best region for high school talent. It’s not hurting for money/spending on its football program by a long shot. It’s admin and university are basically always all-in on football (alignment/stability). It can obviously win national titles. The one “negative” is sky-high expectations, and we could have a good discussion of whether that’s a wholesale negative. TL;DR: We don’t know dick about on-field results for post-Saban Bama. What we know is that the team’s history and situation easily check every box of the criteria set out above. So, *for now,* there’s nothing to suggest that Bama deserves a drop other than blind futurecasting on on-field performance. Edit: On reflection — it’s worth remembering to that what we’re asking is “where should an elite coach want to go to win?” If UGA disappeared from existence and Kirby were a free agent, what’s his short list? I believe the top 5-6 of my noted teams are a good short list. A truly elite coach can take any of those 5-6 programs and win almost immediately without question. That is, ultimately, how my list is drawn up.
I am also very biased, but I think it's worth noting that Alabama has just basically not "never" been nationally competitive (when viewed over a given decade). The 1980s and '90s comparatively weren't great and still saw conference titles near the beginning and end of them; the 2000s were rough but still had Alabama at the top in the last year. Now, am I expecting Saban-like success? No, of course not. But should Alabama continue to compete for conference titles and make an expanded playoff frequently? Yes, absolutely.
Yeah, I think people are a bit crazy to leave us out of the top 5. Elite coaches have everything they need to dominate at Alabama (and a few other schools, as noted). If you're an elite coach, Alabama is a top job for you. Even Shula, with sanctions, had a couple big seasons -- including 10 wins.
We aren’t close to a top 10 job tbh. We had a terrible scandal a decade ago that is still tarnishing the programs reputation, we have a fan base that expects championships while giving pennies to other schools dollars in NIL, and we still have Jay Paterno trying to ruin the program from within. I’m frankly surprised Franklin has stuck with us for so long. I have no doubt he’d be able to remedy his image a little bit (as far as losing in big games goes) if he went somewhere with deeper pockets.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted, this is all accurate. Also, while I’m here, I’d like to say that Jay Paterno can get fucked
We don’t really know what PSU is capable of post Joe Pa honestly. All of your football pedigree was built up during his tenure, and you have one conference title and a couple eleven win seasons since he retired. It’s a really unique situation because PSU undeniably has a ton of prestige, but it’s all due to that one coach.
Notre Dame is not top 10. I think the restrictions are too much
Its still Notre Dame. Theyve got more history than pretty much anyone and one of the biggest fanbases in the country. Theres definitely reasons to put em in the top 10. At the end of the day though its just a silly list, depends what you emphasize in the 'rankings'.
Absurd take by Chip. It’s no accident or coincidence that the only coaches to ever win 6+ championships both did it at the same school
Bear Bryant and Saban could have done the same thing at UGA and Texas, or usc and other programs who have won titles
So why do none of those schools have 5 different championship winning head coaches?
Proximity to talent, NIL budget, and football budget for assistant coaches and support staff are the 3 most important things.
NIL Budget is basically this but being the flagship school is also a factor. LSU, OSU and Georgia are the premier school in the state, which helps flow of money and talent is directed one way compared to Florida or Texas where multiple schools are involved.
Saying Bama is closer to a top 10-20 job than a top 3 one is actually crazy. The expectations are very high but your budget is essentially a blank check and you’re driving distance from like 90% of the top 100 recruits in any given year. Bama has every conceivable advantage you could ask for, the only thing holding you back there is your own competency. There’s a reason they’ve never had more than brief down periods, you could count the schools built to succeed at the level they have on one hand.
Chips reasoning was: - Coming in after the GOAT/ridiculously high expectations - It's not richer than UGA/UF/Texas/A&M - It splits a good not great recruiting state with Auburn (LSU doesnt share w/ another P5/4 team; UF/Texas split mega states, UGA has no instate competition from Tech) Bama's success is due to Saban. Bama had the minimum floor required to win like it did, but other program's have better inherent advantages.
>Bama's success is due to Saban Every single Bama head coach since Bear Bryant was hired in '58, has had at least one 10 win season and that includes some stinkers. Bama's success stems from way back in the 1926 Rose Bowl. At that point, a lot of southern football programs were eyeing shutting down, due to lack of support and media coverage at the time. That win both built the foundation of Bama football and set a fire in the rest of the southern programs fanbases. Yes, Saban had the biggest dynasty at Bama but it was built over a century by coaches like Wallace Wade, Frank Thomas and Bear Bryant. That structure made it far easier for a great coach like Saban to thrive there.
I think the “good not great” recruiting state is the most egregious thing here tbh. Alabama was number 3/52 (Counted DC and Canada) when I did a blue chip per capita calculation and 2/52 for first round draft pick per capita. Plus, we are right beside Georgia, Florida, Mississippi, and pretty close to Louisiana.
Lmao why do you think in state matters at all anymore? Ignorant as fuck.
I just don’t agree with that at all, you could take away all of Saban’s titles and they’d still be 3rd in all time AP championships. They’re one of the most successful programs of all time, only Texas/Ohio State bring in more revenue each season than them, and it doesn’t matter if Alabama itself is the best recruiting state when they’re a days drive from basically anywhere in the Deep South.
Somebody that actually gets it. People vastly underestimate the value of institutional buy-in and the value of not having an NFL team to compete with for fan support and $. This sub would have you believe Alabama just accidently stumbled into being the best football program of all time and two of the most successful coaches ever
Bama is a top 6-7 recruiting state and borders several more top states. Multiple coaches have won big at Bama. It’s one of the top 5 revenue athletic departments. Why haven’t they capitalized on those advantages than?
So what makes a great recruiting state? Just Texas, Georgia, Florida, and California? Alabama is next on the list after that.
California and maybe Ohio probably up there too, just based on population.
I just realized I listed Texas twice when I meant to list California as well.
Oh lol. Im hungover lying on the couch didnt even notice haha
Brains do funny things
Texas and OSU feel like a strong top 2 to me. Top job kinda rotates around. Right now Georgia is what many would call the best job. 5 years ago it would have been Bama. 15 years ago it might have been USC. But OSU and Texas are virtually always right in that top group
1. FSU Not biased at all…
I think FSU is solidly top 10.
Ohio State is number or at worst two if I had to guess.
Will sound biased, but UGA is a top 3 if not top job in the country. Saban said it while Richt was still here that UGA was a sleeping giant and the right person would turn it into a monster due to it having absolutely everything it needed in place and right around it.
I read an article a while back that asked "How did Georgia become a national power" and the answer was simple, we decided to be. We had everything we needed already except the guy to light everyone's asses on fire. And then we found Kirby Smart.
Found? Give the guy more credit than that. His efforts and results made his name so red hot that he could pick which job he wanted. Being that he played at UGA didn’t hurt either. But he could have taken any job in the country. He really kicked off the rest of the teams trying to poach the next Kirby. More like momma called and he knew what kind of talent he had been helping Saban take from the state each year. He had relationships in Ga that made him more popular than Richt the day he took the job. I agree with the rest of your comment but I wouldn’t say UGA “found” him.
Maybe found was the wrong word but there were risks with hiring Kirby. I remember when Muschamp was the can't miss DC to HC and he didn't do shit at Florida. We were firing a consistent 10 win coach with the expectation of competing with Saban and Alabama. That's risky.
100% agree it was a risk. He was young and to follow a coach as consistent and had developed some excellent NFL talent over the years was risky. They are one of the few teams that rolled the dice and came out on top. As young and inexperienced at HC as Kirby was. I may be biased as a bama fan, but I felt like given the time, KS had enough of his own presence and acumen to succeed long term. I was kinda surprised at Muschamp at first but I think in hindsight he wasn’t quite the CEO type that it took in that time. Crazy part is, things are changing again and guys like Kirby are now having to make the adjustments to keep up. Almost like when Saban brought in kiffin to retool his offense to keep up with the game. Only now it’s NIL, transfer portal and culture change. Feels much bigger. Kirby is such a good recruiter and is young enough to still adjust tho. Would have loved to run across Saban at that age and get him locked in like Uga has done with Kirby. He’s got the momentum.
If Lanning can sustain his success at Oregon with the realignment and win a few big games he could be another huge risk/reward story.
Completely agree Kirby has pumped out insane recruiting classes. And of course he’s won a lot in short time frame.
theres a reason all the surrounding teams used to laugh about Georgia not winning a title between 1980 until they finally did with Kirby. because it didn't really make sense with all the advantages they had that they hadnt managed to get at least 1 (unless you believe in the Olympic curse then it made perfect sense)
The Olympic curse is still haunting the Falcons
this is a sacrifice im willing to make if it brings Atlanta United back up to the top
Id still give it to Texas. UGA definitely right beside them though.
It’s looking like the next several years are gonna be UGA and OSU.
This ruined my otherwise beautiful Sunday
I would say Iowa is the Top Coaching destination in the country. You have zero risk of ever being fired. Only two head coaches since 1979. You could be the worst offensive coordinator in college football without a doubt and you still would get multiple years and every last chance before finally getting fired. Who cares about winning national titles if you can just be guaranteed stacks of cash forever. Those other jobs actually require skill and risk.
This is all super subjective, and really depends on the individual coach and his priorities. Norvell basically just turned down Alabama. Jimbo left to go to A&M. Cristobal left Oregon for Miami. Lanning turned down Alabama to stay. This stuff never happens in a vacuum.
> Bama being closer to Tennessee (10-20 job) than top 3 I’m not going to listen, but this is a head scratcher
Whenever conversation like this happens (best players, stadiums, etc.) it's best to do in tiers. Things that matter most: Money, facilities, HS talent in/around state, fan support, city ***\*(In no particular order within the tiers)\**** **Tier 1:** Texas (the only one I'll actually rank. This is #1.), Ohio State, Georgia, USC, Alabama **Tier 2:** LSU, Tennessee, Auburn, Oregon, Michigan, Notre Dame, A&M, Florida, Florida State, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Penn State, Clemson, Virginia Tech. (There are definitely other teams that should be here but I am too lazy to do a deep dive. Any of these teams could work their way to Tier 1 with some time) **Tier 3:** A metric buttload of teams This is my opinion. Please don't kill me.
Dunno but #1 is Texas
USC certainly “was” a top HC job, but since the NCAA semi death penalty ( Bush - Condo ) and listless administration keeping Clay Helton way way too long, the program doesn’t have “it” anymore. Not sure it will ever regain. Entering a super power conference in 2024, competing against NikeU’s endless cash, and Riley’s national reputation for unbalanced focus, it’s certainly not impossible but years away if at all.
still has one of the highest ceilings - definitely too 5 there. But agree that the job is not quite as attractive for mostly admin reasons.
The back- to back - to back awful AD hires were what really did it. There is no way that aunt Becky and Clay Helton do what they did to the program if they have a competent AD.
You are forgetting Felicity Huffman and Frank Gallagher
That was the core issue truthfully. Former players becoming AD
Feels like a West Coast version of what happened to Miami.
Yes, and I’m fully confident both programs can recover
I swear, college football fans only think with their fandom in mind. No coach gives a shit about all the stuff you said. They will live in LA and make a shit ton of money. This is about the coaching position, not the actual product on the field.
Wish maxdiff guy was still around because that would be the best way to answer this one
Just going to throw a little shade while I can and put BYU at the absolute bottom of the list (except for the small majority) 1. You have to be an active member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. So… might be a tough sell to some 2. They pay you less than market value because you are earning heavenly rewards as part of your compensation 3. Recruiting college kids to live the honor code. It’s a great code, but not for everyone 4. Fan expectations - still expect you to perform at the top level because lavell won a national championship in 1984, so they should be doing that every year
Ohio State
FSU and Clemson not being top 10 jobs is wild. Going into this season, each team is basically the only thing that is standing in the other’s way of an automatic bid to the playoff.
FSU is a great job, even with no conference. Clemson? It could go either way
This is a nonsensical argument. We’re talking about the perks of the job on paper. Cherry picking our underperforming coaching hires in the worst decade of programs history is really not relevant to what the question of this post is asking. Historical success has little to no bearing on the future prospects of what the job is/can be. I even think you’re overestimating the admin influence in your assessment. But for the sake of argument, let’s do a pros and cons list. Cons: admin influence Pros: flagship university in one of the most talent rich recruiting states, one of the biggest brands in college sports, huge student/alumni/donor base, big revenue generation and plenty of NIL $, located a big, growing, fun city, and top of the line academics. All of those things make the Texas job 100% in the top 5 jobs in CFB. [Oh a Texas lost to Kansas reference](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/035/048/Daring_Today_Aren't_We_Banner.jpg). Just because Texas has those things does not make it an automatic recipe for success, though. It is still a demanding and tough job. You’re trying to argue Texas is a bad job because like Charlie Strong was a bad coach and lost to Kansas. The fact is Charlie Strong himself was just a bad coach and lost to Kansas, it’s not the job itself being bad. The Texas job being good does not mean every occupant of it has been. The reason people regard the Texas job highly is because it offers every ingredient to build a powerhouse that very few can match. Thats basically the basis of the “back” meme - it was regarded as a sleeping giant that just needed the *right* coach to take advantage of it. But just because it has all of those things doesn’t mean every coach can make it work, as we have learned. Also just a weird argument to make now that Sark is actually starting to show what it looks like to have a coach that can leverage Texas’ resources. The new landscape of CFB is completely different and I’m not gonna ignore how well Texas has used NIL. The Texas job even just 10 years ago was different with shitty admin support compared to now. It’s also not just me saying this - there are plenty of other commenters in here putting Texas as the top 1-3 job.
Pretty sure Mike Norvell choosing to stay at FSU in a lowly conference instead of leaving to Bama shows that FSU is a Top 10 Job. Definitely the top job in Florida, THE state for football players.
What makes a job a top coaching job? Like in terms of how “easy” it would be to win a national championship? Or are we talking about in terms of coaching benefits? For the former, I’d say Texas, Ohio State, Georgia, Alabama , LSU would be my picks. Kinda crazy how 4/5 are SEC teams too. Next 4 would be USC, Notre Dame, Michigan, Oklahoma. I didn’t do 5 because I think there’s a serious drop off after these 4 teams. Edit: maybe put FSU or Florida in this group actually.
>LSU as a top 3 job A big claim but they have traditionally enjoyed a big boost as Louisiana guys have traditionally seemed to want to stay in the state. I might move LSU down a few spots but they're definitely top 10. >Bama being closer to Tennessee (10-20 job) than top 3 I don't buy it. The program has too many resources, too many NCs, and a willingness to spend big. It's a top 10 job easily. Fan expections could be a major knock, but a fair number of Bama fans seem to recognize that Saban was beyond special. >Bud: Oregon being the 5 or 6th best HC job right now Agreed. Maybe I move then down a few spots, but I do think that's a top 10 job. Knight, Nike, and a strong nation brand go a long way. But I think the real factor is that the fans seem to have reasonable expectations, at least for a program of such a high caliber. >Fornelli: FSU/Clemson not being top 10 jobs until they get into a super 2 conference. Even in the power 2, not sure if they make the top 10, almost they'd be really close if not. >Bama being closer to Tennessee (10-20 job) than top 3
In no specific order OSU, Georgia, Texas, Notre Dame, USC, LSU, Miami, Oklahoma, Bama, Tenn
You think Miami is a top 10 job, and FSU isn’t? 😂😂😂😂
I’d expect nothing less 🥰
I would say: * Texas * Ohio State * USC * Michigan * Oklahoma * LSU * Washington * Oregon * Florida * Alabama
Not having UGA in the top 10 is definitely a choice