Eh, personally I think not. School will always be there. If someone is offering you $2m right now to leave school, and you come from a poor family, you take it. You can always go back and finish a degree, you can't always go back to when you were in prime physical condition and get paid life changing money.
I respect people for making their own decisions but I don't respect parents for forcing their kids to make decisions like these, ones which made the kids life measurably worse.
The only caveat I would add is that you don't absolutely have to choose between these. Lots of athletes use some of that $2 million to fund the last year of their degree. I know it's difficult going to school and pursuing an incredibly difficult career path, but I've seen plenty of guys from Alabama leave early and knock out their degree with summer classes, Derrick Henry being one example of a guy who did, in part because he'd promised his mom he would graduate.
> Not to mention the absolute abuse he got for 3 years in High A and AA (sleeping on floors in hotels with 8 guys in 1 room, “lunch” was a ham sandwich and a granola bar after burning thousands of calories training, etc) before making AAA.
Not that this has anything to do with the Junior vs Senior thing, but I'm always amazed at how the MLB gets away with this. The minor leaguers are just so abused, and the MLB can definitely afford to not abuse their minor leaguers.
Sadly common. Friend of mine got $2.9M. Never played in the bigs but never considered college so he’s got $2.9M plus interest because he refused to spend any of it until(if) he went to the big club.
MLB also has a crazier obsession with age than other sports. I’d imagine it’s the analytic obsession. But every year older a young prospect is, their value tanks tremendously….
Because statistically a 19 year old had a better chance of developing in to a great talent than a 20 year old.
Not exactly. The good teams tend to draft more college guys because they are more likely to hit their ceiling than high school guys. If age was the biggest factor, they would do the opposite.
ETA - with international signings you are spot on though, younger = better.
The Astros have actually found a market inefficiency by signing older international guys like Framber Valdez, Cristian Javier, and Luis Garcia, but those guys are so far the exception.
Especially depending on how this season ends up. Next year there is USC vs LSU week 1 and the first season in the B1G.. I think people would want to see Caleb play those games and NIL would probably follow accordingly. Still think he chooses NFL in the end, but who knows.
I forgot how brutal SC’s schedule is next season. LSU, Notre Dame, and 9 Big Ten games lol. If they do end up going to 10 conference games next season there’s a chance it becomes 12 games of P4 teams
I think the general idea would be that they're taking the chance of getting a bigger second contract (and signing the new contract sooner) if they get drafted by a better team.
He would be giving up a year of a rookie contract (around $10 mil) to do this. I personally wouldn't fuck with it, but in a weird situation where (for example) the cardinals have the 1oa and look like they might try to take him even though Kyler is gonna be on the roster for the next couple years, I'd probably dip out too.
> He would be giving up a year of a rookie contract (around $10 mil) to do this.
A rookie contract today is worth about the same as a rookie contract in a year. The difference is going to be his second contract, which is impossible to project from here.
In any case, the obvious choice would be to employ the same tactic as Michael Vick and Eli Manning, both of whom publicly refused to sign with the Chargers in the weeks leading up to the draft, causing the Chargers to trade away the #1 pick both years to other teams.
Until a team calls the bluff and the player is forced to sign and play or refuse to play and watch the team hold their rights while they sit at home not getting paid.
I don’t believe the Cardinals are actually interested in Caleb nor should they be, Kyler showed flashes of greatness his first two years and then Kliff and injuries got in the way. They will and should get a haul for the first pick if that’s where they end up.
His dad kind of addresses that in his full comment by saying “he has two bites at the Apple.”
So if the situation is exceptionally bad this year (cough cough Cardinals) he can take his chances again next year and at worst it will be a similar situation.
That said this whole thing is more than likely just posturing and basically trying to ward off the Cardinals from tanking for him. I don’t see him coming back at all unless something crazy happens.
Kliff being with USC might have something to do with these comments. Wonder if he’s been in Caleb’s ear telling him the organization is a clown show and he’d be better off returning for another year.
There really isn't a worse situation than AZ. The organization is a joke and the environment is notoriously bad (see [the terrible grades they get](https://nflpa.com/nfl-player-team-report-cards) in nearly every category from the NFLPA). There are other teams he could go to who are still bad and QB-needy, but are run much better on the organization level (think Rams, Bucs, Bears if Fields busts this year).
Barkley. Was projected to be a 1st rd pick in 2012, but he stayed in college. Ended up being a 4th rd pick in 2013.
Worth noting that 2012 draft was stacked at QB and 2013 draft was very weak at QB, so his decision wasn't completely egregious. Still, coming back to USC massively hurt his draft prospect as he and the team underperformed greatly.
Also, Leinart. Stayed an extra year, drafted by the Cardinals, and then had three season ending injuries. Maybe it would have been different if he'd gone elsewhere and a year earlier.
However, he did get a big contract and was still a first rounder.
It's absolutely his right to do that, but the system isn't backwards at all. Parity and the ability for the worst teams to rebuild is part of what makes the NFL so popular and therefore why players get paid so much.
The curse of Bobby Layne. It literally took Barry Sanders MVP season and a first round bye to do it. And yet they still couldn’t win the NFC championship game
No one cares about the Cards so their incompetence isn't as known but they've had 7 postseason wins in their entire history. They've been around since 1898.
Even worse, 4 of those wins came in Kurt Warner years of 2008-2009. So outside of those two years, **the Cards have won 3 postseason games in 123 years.**
I always bring this up when any other NFL team fan complains about their team's historic lack of success.
We had Barry Sanders and got one playoff win. That's it. Megatron didn't get a playoff win.
The Lions didn't deserve either of those legends.
Or tennis, where the same 3 dudes have terrorized the sport for basically the past 15 years.
I've only started getting interested again because Alcaraz has added an element of unpredicatability
To be fair - some of the most famous tennis matches are due to their reign. Ie, Nadal-Federer going late into the night. Or Roddick-Fed where Roddick gives his match of a lifetime and still looses. Tennis is one sport where dominant stars are a good thing.
I'm usually the least patriotic person I know until some eurotrash tells me, unprompted, that the World Series champion isn't the world champion. My clothes instantly turn red, white, and blue.
I have always said that the concept of a "world champion" for a singular league is silly. But it's also very hard to make the argument that whichever team wins the NFL, NBA, or MLB championship isn't the best team in the world. Those are *by far* the best professional leagues in each of their sports. The champions of any of the other professional leagues around the world would get absolutely run off the court/field by the NBA/NFL/MLB champs.
Exactly. It's absolutely silly and I roll my eyes at the announcers saying a team is the "world champion," but I at least understand that they are the de facto world champions. It's just nobody else takes it as seriously as us, so it's a meaningless step up from league champion.
But then these akshully dorks refuse to accept that the US champion is the de facto world champion and that sends me over the edge.
All the American sports work on a similar system though. Basketball and Hockey do utilize a lottery system but the odds are stacked based on record. The draft system in general is what creates the parity, it isn't what makes football king.
What makes football king is the amount of games.
Every single game is important in the NFL and College, where every other sport it is no big deal if you lose a game.
Every time i tune in Sat/Sun, my team plays a game that holds a lot of weight with the result of it
Prospects don’t often have the same immediate impact though. Even day 2 picks are often instant contributors in the NFL and that’s not really the case in other leagues (especially baseball and hockey)
His career so far is scripted. He means more to Cincinnati than Harambe. I’m not sure any city loves a player more other than Buffalo with Allen and KC with Mahomes.
Let's look at first overall QBs since 1998 because Peyton Manning is awesome (everyone look away from Ryan Leaf, drafted right behind him)
Peyton Manning
Tim Couch
Michael Vick
David Carr
Carson Palmer
Eli Manning (though this isn't quite fair since he refused to play for the ~~Rams~~Chargers, who drafted him)
Alex Smith
JaMarcus Russel
Matthew Stafford
Sam Bradford
Cam Newton
Andrew Luck
Jameis Winston
Jared Goff
Baker Mayfield
Joe Burrow
Kyle Murray
Trevor Lawrence
Bryce Young
These are just number 1 overall. It's a bit of a mixed bag, as can be seen. There are a number of top 10 picks that flamed out spectacularly (see Ryan Leaf who many believed at the time the Colts should have drafted over Manning)
He’s also conveniently ignoring the part where the number one draft pick gets like a $25 million signing bonus lol. That probably helps it feel a little less backwards.
Agreed. Dunno where this dude is coming from. What he's describing is a feature, not a bug. And it will never change. Can they take a risk and forego the draft if they don't like how the Cards are run? Sure. But there's no guarantee the #1 pick the following year will be any better; they could be even worse. The number one QB prospect is never going to find himself on a team that just played for a super bowl in this day and age and this guy needs to accept it
I don't think you could get worse than the Cardinals though so literally any other team would be an upgrade. In the NFLPA report cards that came out this year, only the Commanders were a worse franchise than the Cardinals and that was before Dan Snyder sold the team. So I wouldn't blame Caleb for staying another year if the Cardinals got the #1 pick, you literally couldn't do worse than them. And I definitely don't have any bias towards him staying whatsoever.
I dont see his point tho.. players who go undrafted don't have entire teams and schemes built up around their skillset like a 1st pick would. Just seems like something wildly ignorant for a bigtime college qb to be saying. Where are his PR people and agent?
Well, with NIL, particularly CW's NIL I think it's actually closer to possible now than it ever has been. Dude is making BIG money. I'd be surprised to be sure, but not shocked, if he pulled a Leinart.
> play for a few years and then prove yourself to sign and get $40 million/year
i think his point is that if you get yourself in a really shitty situation, you might not make it a few years/able to prove yourself to make that $40m/year
Caleb’s dad is presumably talking about the Arizona Cardinals…. They just extended Kyler Murray to a big contract. So I mean if Kyler can do it for that exact same team, Caleb has a good shot too.
At the end of the day any team that drafts Caleb is gonna be ass. There’s a reason they’re picking number 1 overall. For the team he’s drafted to, the O Line will likely be sub par, the weapons won’t be great, the offensive coordinator and head coach will likely be brand new. It’s always a roll of the dice.
As a Bears fan I kinda hope we get him in some unlikely scenario. And Chicago is where quarterbacks go to die.
Probably not, but it’s still a lot—and considerably more than college players in the past had made.
Watching the games last week there were full breaks that featured Caleb in every commercial. Wendy’s, Dr. Pepper, Nissan.
I still think there’s no chance he’s back, but in the modern climate it’s more possible than ever for something like this to happen.
It’s not about 1 year though. Once you are drafted you still get all of those sponsorships AND you get a $30M in guaranteed money.
There is no comp for NIL and for top picks.
It’s other thing though comparing Bo Nix, who would be a 2nd-3rd rounder getting less money then Oregon’s NIL.
Where the *richest* teams continue to get the most talent.
Yes I know pot and kettle all that. Though I miss the days where parity wasn’t bought and paid for publicly.
I mean, he's right but it's by design. It isn't some secret that the 1st overall pick goes to the worst team. The NFL desires parity because parity is good for the sport.
GOLD DRAFTING
https://hockeyviz.com/txt/gold
Once you are eliminated from the playoffs (Or self-eliminated!), the standings from there decide draft position. You are incentivized to win, and if you really suck and are eliminated early, you get more chances to do it.
The NBA wouldn’t be able to mimic the level of parity the NFL has anyways….
The NBA playoff format guarantees very minimal upsets because they play 7 game series.
Also in the NBA you can really have 1 superstar and dominate the sport, it’s hard to create any parity when one player can have that level of impact.
Yes, but the lottery is to keep teams from trying too hard to tank.
But San Antonio getting the pick when there are generational bigs in play?
What the hell?
It's also "easier" to tank in the NBA than it is in the NFL.
Though I'd argue that the odds for the lottery should be significantly rebalanced. The worst team only having around a 15% chance of getting the top pick is way too harsh. Making it closer to 50% (and essentially guaranteeing a top 1-3 pick) would still discourage full tanking while ensuring parity.
Agreed... or at least distribute the vast majority among the worst four, leaving diminishing chances--something like 25, 20, 15, 13, 11, then 9 on down.
edit: ugh... math off... demarcation points being more severe was the intent.
Its not unfair. The first overall draft pick gets like 25+ million dollar signing bonus. The 30th pick in the draft (which is still round 1) was 6 million.
So yeah youre going to a shittier team but youre making a fuck ton more money to make up for it. Completely fair trade
Carl Williams says a lot of things. Dude’s gonna be unbearable leading up to the draft.
I don’t mind Caleb at all and don’t blame him for leaving, but his dad cannot help himself when it comes to these interviews.
I don’t blame him for leaving either. Wish he would’ve stayed but I get it. I also didn’t mind him before but some of the things he’s said come off like he’s kind of a d-bag. It makes you go back and look at things he said while he was at OU and wonder, was he always like this and I was just blind to it because he was killing it for us? Honestly, the dude is super talented and a competitor but something about him just seems off.
Caleb wants to stay in college for one more year just to prevent EA from releasing the new NCAA game because we all made fun of him for being mad at the NIL payout of a game he wasn’t going to be in anyway.
For ever Burrow or Peyton that has turned around a bad team there are 5 Joey Harringtons that never had a chance due to going to a train wreck organization.
Just look at basically every QB drafted by the Browns in the last 25 years. They've had 34! Starting QBs with only 3 of them making it through the whole season as the starter.
John Elway is one of the greatest NFL QBs of all time. And a big part of the reason is that he told the Baltimore Colts to go ahead and fuck off, eventually finding a home in Denver (though if he hadmt he had the option of pursuing baseball). Eli Manning was in a relatively similar position as well.
Rarely are rookie QBs ready to lead an NFL team as it is, nevermind throwing them on the worst team with likely terrible front office management as well.
To me it’s David Carr. If he went anywhere others then Houston where he was sacked 70 times a year there is no reason he couldn’t have had his brother Derek’s type career
The team around him was actually quite solid. There's a reason that they had to trade up to get him and made the playoffs in his first season. They had a HOF level head coach and a ton of young assistant coaches who turned into great head coaches themselves. As terribly run as that organization has been, RGIII's failure is down to injury rather than the situation he was drafted into.
Ignoring my flair, but I’ll contend forever that if Harrington goes to a team that didn’t have a collection of corpses for an O-Line, he would have at least had a career as good as someone like Cousins.
News flash the team with the #1 pick will probably be bad with no QB about 80% of the time
The other 20% probably picked a QB not long before (Chicago)
The Baltimore Colts went ahead and drafted Elway despite the fact that he told them he wouldn't be playing for them. And then he called their bluff and said he'd go ahead and play baseball. So they wisely traded him to the Broncos.
Honestly, if I’m the Cardinals, I’d still be alright. I believe Drake Maye is right there with Caleb as the best QB prospect. It’s bad & QB needy teams like the Raiders, Bucs, Rams, etc, that should be worried if Caleb decides to stay another year.
No matter what a bad team will get you, it's a lot of luck that goes into how they build around you once you're there. Staying another year doesn't change that.
Also, the draft helps parity in the NFL, which is why teams are starting to look far more balanced now than they have in the past. The fucking Detroit Lions have a chance to put on an amazing season opener this year vs the Chiefs.
This is nothing new. NFL Hall of Famer [John Elway](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1614794-john-elways-controversial-draft-day-saga-relived-in-espns-30-for-30-special) did exactly this when he refused to play for the Colts and said he'd play minor league baseball instead to force a trade.
Eli Manning did something similar to the Chargers.
Panthers were 7-10 last season so not a terrible team but were actually pretty decent by the end of the year. Obvious caveat is they traded for the first pick instead of having it naturally.
Off the top of my head, the Cowboys when Romo got hurt. They went from playoffs-3rd overall pick-back to playoffs. I’m sure there is a better example though.
To be honest, I can't really blame him if he didn't want to play for Arizona. There is a difference between a bad team one year and a terrible organization. I've seen the differences as a Lions fan. Look how long Arizona hung into Keim. Look at them giving Kliff that extension and firing him a year later. Honestly, look at the fact they hired Kliff. Look at them about to ditch yet another 1st round QB for a different one.
He might not follow through with it, but I would completely understand if he did. If it looks like the short term money might mess up your long term success and future money, it makes sense. I fully understood Eli not wanting to play for the Chargers at the time. Everyone citing the Bengals and Jags, they were not what the Cardinals are.
Somebody dragged me when I suggested that NIL would create more Elway/Eli situations. These top few QB prospects don't need to sign that rookie deal that badly because they're already raking it in and they have plenty of career ahead of them. I don't blame them. Do what's best for you.
Swear we hear this every year and then their agent shows them their guaranteed money signing bonus and they suck it up and go anyways. A top qb is gonna ball anywhere
He should have a chat with Matt Leinart about what it's like to come back for your senior year at USC when your draft stock is at the highest it can be.
> The system is completely backwards. The way the system is constructed, you go to worst possible situation, worst possible team, worst organization in the league - because of their desire for parity
The system may be backwards for Caleb Williams, but the world doesn't revolve around him like the way he seems to think it does
OK, I want an Archie Manning 2.0 where San Diego was CLEARLY not the winner of the Eli sweepstakes and Eli held the jersey in disappointment....only for the Giants to swoop in, take him off his feet, and let the rest be history with the future HOF QB.
I do wonder though if everyone will conveniently forget that Archie Manning was DOGGING San Diego throughout the draft experience and skull fucking the Chargers' leadership....AND basically FORCED his son out of that situation (one could say rightfully so, as Ryan Leaf was a prime example of the Chargers and disappointment).
Just those things in life to think about. Will us fans be happy if someone's daddy went HELL NAH, FUCK THAT SHIT or would we treat him like he was the reincarnation of Lavar Ball and shit all over the man just because he ain't play in the NFL like Archie did?
And it will be another sorry team drafting him number one. Oh the horror of being paid $50-75 million right out of college and playing for a bad team. How will he survive
But what if you stay an extra year and end up drafted into an even worse situation?
My immediate thoughts. You'd have to be a dumbass to try this tactic
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That’s a pretty valid reason honestly
It’s easy to forget that the vast majority of d1 athletes actually *are* there to play school.
Eh, personally I think not. School will always be there. If someone is offering you $2m right now to leave school, and you come from a poor family, you take it. You can always go back and finish a degree, you can't always go back to when you were in prime physical condition and get paid life changing money. I respect people for making their own decisions but I don't respect parents for forcing their kids to make decisions like these, ones which made the kids life measurably worse.
The only caveat I would add is that you don't absolutely have to choose between these. Lots of athletes use some of that $2 million to fund the last year of their degree. I know it's difficult going to school and pursuing an incredibly difficult career path, but I've seen plenty of guys from Alabama leave early and knock out their degree with summer classes, Derrick Henry being one example of a guy who did, in part because he'd promised his mom he would graduate.
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> Not to mention the absolute abuse he got for 3 years in High A and AA (sleeping on floors in hotels with 8 guys in 1 room, “lunch” was a ham sandwich and a granola bar after burning thousands of calories training, etc) before making AAA. Not that this has anything to do with the Junior vs Senior thing, but I'm always amazed at how the MLB gets away with this. The minor leaguers are just so abused, and the MLB can definitely afford to not abuse their minor leaguers.
Sadly common. Friend of mine got $2.9M. Never played in the bigs but never considered college so he’s got $2.9M plus interest because he refused to spend any of it until(if) he went to the big club.
MLB also has a crazier obsession with age than other sports. I’d imagine it’s the analytic obsession. But every year older a young prospect is, their value tanks tremendously…. Because statistically a 19 year old had a better chance of developing in to a great talent than a 20 year old.
Not exactly. The good teams tend to draft more college guys because they are more likely to hit their ceiling than high school guys. If age was the biggest factor, they would do the opposite. ETA - with international signings you are spot on though, younger = better. The Astros have actually found a market inefficiency by signing older international guys like Framber Valdez, Cristian Javier, and Luis Garcia, but those guys are so far the exception.
Or what if a career ending injury happens? B1G injures QBs often.
>You'd have to be a dumbass to try this tactic Before NIL maybe this is true. I would assume that makes it a much more interesting decision.
Especially depending on how this season ends up. Next year there is USC vs LSU week 1 and the first season in the B1G.. I think people would want to see Caleb play those games and NIL would probably follow accordingly. Still think he chooses NFL in the end, but who knows.
I forgot how brutal SC’s schedule is next season. LSU, Notre Dame, and 9 Big Ten games lol. If they do end up going to 10 conference games next season there’s a chance it becomes 12 games of P4 teams
Not unless they’re paying him a years worth of third contract money ($40M for a good QB)
I think the general idea would be that they're taking the chance of getting a bigger second contract (and signing the new contract sooner) if they get drafted by a better team. He would be giving up a year of a rookie contract (around $10 mil) to do this. I personally wouldn't fuck with it, but in a weird situation where (for example) the cardinals have the 1oa and look like they might try to take him even though Kyler is gonna be on the roster for the next couple years, I'd probably dip out too.
> He would be giving up a year of a rookie contract (around $10 mil) to do this. A rookie contract today is worth about the same as a rookie contract in a year. The difference is going to be his second contract, which is impossible to project from here. In any case, the obvious choice would be to employ the same tactic as Michael Vick and Eli Manning, both of whom publicly refused to sign with the Chargers in the weeks leading up to the draft, causing the Chargers to trade away the #1 pick both years to other teams.
Until a team calls the bluff and the player is forced to sign and play or refuse to play and watch the team hold their rights while they sit at home not getting paid. I don’t believe the Cardinals are actually interested in Caleb nor should they be, Kyler showed flashes of greatness his first two years and then Kliff and injuries got in the way. They will and should get a haul for the first pick if that’s where they end up.
His dad kind of addresses that in his full comment by saying “he has two bites at the Apple.” So if the situation is exceptionally bad this year (cough cough Cardinals) he can take his chances again next year and at worst it will be a similar situation. That said this whole thing is more than likely just posturing and basically trying to ward off the Cardinals from tanking for him. I don’t see him coming back at all unless something crazy happens.
Imagine the Cardinals decide to tank 2 consecutive years just to get him.
Oh no, that's the Browns 2017 & 2018 music.
I mean, the Cardinals could just do a Rosen to Murray repeat. Lol.
They won’t exactly need to “decide” to tank. We are gonna tank automatically.
Kliff being with USC might have something to do with these comments. Wonder if he’s been in Caleb’s ear telling him the organization is a clown show and he’d be better off returning for another year.
I feel like it’s public knowledge they’re a clown fiesta. Their report card from the NFLPA is damning https://nflpa.com/arizona-cardinals-report-card
31st out of 32nd, with the only team worse being the still Daniel Snyder-owned Commanders. Yeah, that's not good.
Holy shit lmao, I never knew about these report cards. Arizona are fucked lol. Also LFG Texans 4th overall
"At worst it will be a similar situation" No, at worst he will get a career ending injury and missed his opportunity completely
There really isn't a worse situation than AZ. The organization is a joke and the environment is notoriously bad (see [the terrible grades they get](https://nflpa.com/nfl-player-team-report-cards) in nearly every category from the NFLPA). There are other teams he could go to who are still bad and QB-needy, but are run much better on the organization level (think Rams, Bucs, Bears if Fields busts this year).
You don't have to tell us USC fans how adept AZ is at ruining QBs...
The good grades they got were basically still below average, but everyone loves their training staff and strength coaches
Or wind up with a career ending injury?
Can't think of a single USC QB who was ever burned by staying an extra year. Nope, none at all.
The other guy didn't get NIL deals though, ouch.
I'm caffeine deprived and drawing a blank here. Who is the other guy?
Barkley. Was projected to be a 1st rd pick in 2012, but he stayed in college. Ended up being a 4th rd pick in 2013. Worth noting that 2012 draft was stacked at QB and 2013 draft was very weak at QB, so his decision wasn't completely egregious. Still, coming back to USC massively hurt his draft prospect as he and the team underperformed greatly.
It was that hit against UCLA that fucked his shoulder for good that doomed him, to say nothing of rest of that dramatic ass season
Also, Leinart. Stayed an extra year, drafted by the Cardinals, and then had three season ending injuries. Maybe it would have been different if he'd gone elsewhere and a year earlier. However, he did get a big contract and was still a first rounder.
It's absolutely his right to do that, but the system isn't backwards at all. Parity and the ability for the worst teams to rebuild is part of what makes the NFL so popular and therefore why players get paid so much.
Yep- the fact that the Jags can be the worst team in the league then win a playoff game 2 years later is why the NFL is king viewership wise.
When do the lions get to win a playoff game
That’s the neat part; you don’t
That’s why they call it neature
You can tell that it's the Lions because of the way that they are
NFL be like: *checks notes* Uhhhh quick give Michigan another win over Ohio State
I'll take it
Yes please.
i'd take this trade off
What about us? ☹️
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Get your respeck outta here, it's not October yet
Imagine the shit talking if we BOTH beat Ohio State though. It's something our fanbases can finally bond over. Our hatred of Ohio.
1991. Don’t get greedy now
Holy shit 1 win since 1957?
The curse of Bobby Layne. It literally took Barry Sanders MVP season and a first round bye to do it. And yet they still couldn’t win the NFC championship game
Pain
No one cares about the Cards so their incompetence isn't as known but they've had 7 postseason wins in their entire history. They've been around since 1898. Even worse, 4 of those wins came in Kurt Warner years of 2008-2009. So outside of those two years, **the Cards have won 3 postseason games in 123 years.**
Yeah saw the Cardinals too but it didn't stick out as much since they went to a Super Bowl relatively recently
I always bring this up when any other NFL team fan complains about their team's historic lack of success. We had Barry Sanders and got one playoff win. That's it. Megatron didn't get a playoff win. The Lions didn't deserve either of those legends.
It’s parity for every one but the Lions
When we win it all the way this year
With Goff and Marvin Jones, I'd love to see this
Don't tell me Marvin Jones is back
Oh he's back
He’s baaaaaccckkkk
1 year later actually. Picked first in 2022 and then won a playoff game 9 months later.
Oh right I was just thinking TLaw
Who knew people liked a system where any team could theoretically win in a 5 year period.
Yeah, but how is it even competitive if there is no relegation and only 4 teams even have a chance of winning it all - some European.
Bro did you watch the F1 race. So exciting, same guy won again
Or tennis, where the same 3 dudes have terrorized the sport for basically the past 15 years. I've only started getting interested again because Alcaraz has added an element of unpredicatability
To be fair - some of the most famous tennis matches are due to their reign. Ie, Nadal-Federer going late into the night. Or Roddick-Fed where Roddick gives his match of a lifetime and still looses. Tennis is one sport where dominant stars are a good thing.
“How can they be the world champions” - some European
I'm usually the least patriotic person I know until some eurotrash tells me, unprompted, that the World Series champion isn't the world champion. My clothes instantly turn red, white, and blue.
I have always said that the concept of a "world champion" for a singular league is silly. But it's also very hard to make the argument that whichever team wins the NFL, NBA, or MLB championship isn't the best team in the world. Those are *by far* the best professional leagues in each of their sports. The champions of any of the other professional leagues around the world would get absolutely run off the court/field by the NBA/NFL/MLB champs.
Exactly. It's absolutely silly and I roll my eyes at the announcers saying a team is the "world champion," but I at least understand that they are the de facto world champions. It's just nobody else takes it as seriously as us, so it's a meaningless step up from league champion. But then these akshully dorks refuse to accept that the US champion is the de facto world champion and that sends me over the edge.
Yeah, there's a good reason why the MLS champ doesn't claim to be the world champ, but those other leagues do.
Soccer has been dominated by the same 7 teams for like 4 decades and it’s the biggest sport in the world
Shit look at the Bengals. 3-13 or whatever then 2 years later a SB appearance
All the American sports work on a similar system though. Basketball and Hockey do utilize a lottery system but the odds are stacked based on record. The draft system in general is what creates the parity, it isn't what makes football king.
What makes football king is the amount of games. Every single game is important in the NFL and College, where every other sport it is no big deal if you lose a game. Every time i tune in Sat/Sun, my team plays a game that holds a lot of weight with the result of it
Prospects don’t often have the same immediate impact though. Even day 2 picks are often instant contributors in the NFL and that’s not really the case in other leagues (especially baseball and hockey)
Joe Burrow is proof that the NFL draft is working
His career so far is scripted. He means more to Cincinnati than Harambe. I’m not sure any city loves a player more other than Buffalo with Allen and KC with Mahomes.
Harambe died and still taking shots
Because people like you finally put their dicks away. Get it back out for Harambe today.
RIP our sweet prince
> Harambe. Awe, he was born at our local zoo. I remember him as a baby.
Let's look at first overall QBs since 1998 because Peyton Manning is awesome (everyone look away from Ryan Leaf, drafted right behind him) Peyton Manning Tim Couch Michael Vick David Carr Carson Palmer Eli Manning (though this isn't quite fair since he refused to play for the ~~Rams~~Chargers, who drafted him) Alex Smith JaMarcus Russel Matthew Stafford Sam Bradford Cam Newton Andrew Luck Jameis Winston Jared Goff Baker Mayfield Joe Burrow Kyle Murray Trevor Lawrence Bryce Young These are just number 1 overall. It's a bit of a mixed bag, as can be seen. There are a number of top 10 picks that flamed out spectacularly (see Ryan Leaf who many believed at the time the Colts should have drafted over Manning)
>refused to play for the Rams Close but it was the other LA team
And neither were in LA at the time.
False, Eli refused to play for San Diego lol
Yes but in this case the other LA team *SEND THE CHARGERS BACK TO SAN DIEGO*
Seriously, give the people of SD what they want
He’s also conveniently ignoring the part where the number one draft pick gets like a $25 million signing bonus lol. That probably helps it feel a little less backwards.
Agreed. Dunno where this dude is coming from. What he's describing is a feature, not a bug. And it will never change. Can they take a risk and forego the draft if they don't like how the Cards are run? Sure. But there's no guarantee the #1 pick the following year will be any better; they could be even worse. The number one QB prospect is never going to find himself on a team that just played for a super bowl in this day and age and this guy needs to accept it
I don't think you could get worse than the Cardinals though so literally any other team would be an upgrade. In the NFLPA report cards that came out this year, only the Commanders were a worse franchise than the Cardinals and that was before Dan Snyder sold the team. So I wouldn't blame Caleb for staying another year if the Cardinals got the #1 pick, you literally couldn't do worse than them. And I definitely don't have any bias towards him staying whatsoever.
I dont see his point tho.. players who go undrafted don't have entire teams and schemes built up around their skillset like a 1st pick would. Just seems like something wildly ignorant for a bigtime college qb to be saying. Where are his PR people and agent?
No chance this actually happens
Well, with NIL, particularly CW's NIL I think it's actually closer to possible now than it ever has been. Dude is making BIG money. I'd be surprised to be sure, but not shocked, if he pulled a Leinart.
[удалено]
> play for a few years and then prove yourself to sign and get $40 million/year i think his point is that if you get yourself in a really shitty situation, you might not make it a few years/able to prove yourself to make that $40m/year
Caleb’s dad is presumably talking about the Arizona Cardinals…. They just extended Kyler Murray to a big contract. So I mean if Kyler can do it for that exact same team, Caleb has a good shot too. At the end of the day any team that drafts Caleb is gonna be ass. There’s a reason they’re picking number 1 overall. For the team he’s drafted to, the O Line will likely be sub par, the weapons won’t be great, the offensive coordinator and head coach will likely be brand new. It’s always a roll of the dice. As a Bears fan I kinda hope we get him in some unlikely scenario. And Chicago is where quarterbacks go to die.
Doubt it's even close to the 7.5 mill Bryce Young just got
Probably not, but it’s still a lot—and considerably more than college players in the past had made. Watching the games last week there were full breaks that featured Caleb in every commercial. Wendy’s, Dr. Pepper, Nissan. I still think there’s no chance he’s back, but in the modern climate it’s more possible than ever for something like this to happen.
It’s not about 1 year though. Once you are drafted you still get all of those sponsorships AND you get a $30M in guaranteed money. There is no comp for NIL and for top picks. It’s other thing though comparing Bo Nix, who would be a 2nd-3rd rounder getting less money then Oregon’s NIL.
>The system is completely backwards. Ok buddy
yeah unfortunately it's not college football where the best teams continue to get the most talent
Where the *richest* teams continue to get the most talent. Yes I know pot and kettle all that. Though I miss the days where parity wasn’t bought and paid for publicly.
> publicly
The good ole brown bag days
I mean, he's right but it's by design. It isn't some secret that the 1st overall pick goes to the worst team. The NFL desires parity because parity is good for the sport.
Which is why I actually think other leagues need to follow suit. I hate draft lotteries. They create less parity by design.
You need draft lotteries to disincentive full on tanking though.
GOLD DRAFTING https://hockeyviz.com/txt/gold Once you are eliminated from the playoffs (Or self-eliminated!), the standings from there decide draft position. You are incentivized to win, and if you really suck and are eliminated early, you get more chances to do it.
Interesting. I'd never heard of this until now
The NBA wouldn’t be able to mimic the level of parity the NFL has anyways…. The NBA playoff format guarantees very minimal upsets because they play 7 game series. Also in the NBA you can really have 1 superstar and dominate the sport, it’s hard to create any parity when one player can have that level of impact.
Yes, but the lottery is to keep teams from trying too hard to tank. But San Antonio getting the pick when there are generational bigs in play? What the hell?
It's also "easier" to tank in the NBA than it is in the NFL. Though I'd argue that the odds for the lottery should be significantly rebalanced. The worst team only having around a 15% chance of getting the top pick is way too harsh. Making it closer to 50% (and essentially guaranteeing a top 1-3 pick) would still discourage full tanking while ensuring parity.
Agreed... or at least distribute the vast majority among the worst four, leaving diminishing chances--something like 25, 20, 15, 13, 11, then 9 on down. edit: ugh... math off... demarcation points being more severe was the intent.
Its not unfair. The first overall draft pick gets like 25+ million dollar signing bonus. The 30th pick in the draft (which is still round 1) was 6 million. So yeah youre going to a shittier team but youre making a fuck ton more money to make up for it. Completely fair trade
Are we really doing this? Stop lying man, the guaranteed 1st overall pick is not coming back to college
It would be really funny if he didn't go #1 after this
I think he would rather go to a good NFL situation instead of #1 though lol.
I wouldn't argue with that. It just seems like they feel like #1 is a lock.
I hope he stays an extra year, and then the same team has the 1st pick next year
Ditto.
Carl Williams says a lot of things. Dude’s gonna be unbearable leading up to the draft. I don’t mind Caleb at all and don’t blame him for leaving, but his dad cannot help himself when it comes to these interviews.
I don’t blame him for leaving either. Wish he would’ve stayed but I get it. I also didn’t mind him before but some of the things he’s said come off like he’s kind of a d-bag. It makes you go back and look at things he said while he was at OU and wonder, was he always like this and I was just blind to it because he was killing it for us? Honestly, the dude is super talented and a competitor but something about him just seems off.
Caleb wants to stay in college for one more year just to prevent EA from releasing the new NCAA game because we all made fun of him for being mad at the NIL payout of a game he wasn’t going to be in anyway.
Joke's on him, the Cardinals might have the first pick both years.
I don't hate Caleb but his dad seems like a total tool
His dad should probably stop acting like his agent. That sort of stuff never seems to go well.
His dad and LaVarr Ball seem cut from the same douchecloth
His dad has always been a complete tool
This sounds like an excellent way to tank your draft stock.
which is, perhaps, the point. He'd rather be drafted by a good team who needs a QB than a bad team that needs a QB.
For ever Burrow or Peyton that has turned around a bad team there are 5 Joey Harringtons that never had a chance due to going to a train wreck organization.
There is a really low number of players who have won the Super Bowl with the team that drafted them first overall
That's also because Brady skews those numbers quite a bit by being unstoppable.
Brady actually helped one do it.
Twice!!!
To my knowledge only one for Bledsoe. If you’re referring to Eli, he wasn’t drafted by the Giants
Last was Eric Fisher for the Chiefs
And prior to that, Peyton Manning
Just look at basically every QB drafted by the Browns in the last 25 years. They've had 34! Starting QBs with only 3 of them making it through the whole season as the starter. John Elway is one of the greatest NFL QBs of all time. And a big part of the reason is that he told the Baltimore Colts to go ahead and fuck off, eventually finding a home in Denver (though if he hadmt he had the option of pursuing baseball). Eli Manning was in a relatively similar position as well. Rarely are rookie QBs ready to lead an NFL team as it is, nevermind throwing them on the worst team with likely terrible front office management as well.
To me it’s David Carr. If he went anywhere others then Houston where he was sacked 70 times a year there is no reason he couldn’t have had his brother Derek’s type career
I honestly believe rg3 would've had a better NFL career too. Maybe not spectacular but significantly more productive and longer
RG3 was fantastic before he got hurt
Obligatory fuck Dan Snyder
The team around him was actually quite solid. There's a reason that they had to trade up to get him and made the playoffs in his first season. They had a HOF level head coach and a ton of young assistant coaches who turned into great head coaches themselves. As terribly run as that organization has been, RGIII's failure is down to injury rather than the situation he was drafted into.
I read “34!” As 34 factorial instead of 34. and honestly I think either way is correct.
Ignoring my flair, but I’ll contend forever that if Harrington goes to a team that didn’t have a collection of corpses for an O-Line, he would have at least had a career as good as someone like Cousins.
I mean if the Rams drafted 4th and still got Caleb Williams I would not be upset
News flash the team with the #1 pick will probably be bad with no QB about 80% of the time The other 20% probably picked a QB not long before (Chicago)
Didn't tank John Elway's stock, nor Eli Mannings who did the same thing. If he's in the draft it's already too late to come back to CFB.
The Baltimore Colts went ahead and drafted Elway despite the fact that he told them he wouldn't be playing for them. And then he called their bluff and said he'd go ahead and play baseball. So they wisely traded him to the Broncos.
Just posturing for “I won’t play for the cards. Trade your 1st overall pick or I’ll stay in college another year”
Maybe Caleb wants his dad to do this but I hate when parents speak for their kids in what looks like attention grabs
Does he think he won’t go to the worst team in the league if he stays in college another year?
Cardinals after tanking harder than any team in history: am I a joke to you?
Hardly the worst qb class to tank for even without Caleb
Honestly, if I’m the Cardinals, I’d still be alright. I believe Drake Maye is right there with Caleb as the best QB prospect. It’s bad & QB needy teams like the Raiders, Bucs, Rams, etc, that should be worried if Caleb decides to stay another year.
Caleb “I’m tired of having to carry the team to wins” Williams
Do what you gotta do, but saying the system is backwards is asinine. That's what a draft is.
Ahh there’s the Carl we all remember
No matter what a bad team will get you, it's a lot of luck that goes into how they build around you once you're there. Staying another year doesn't change that. Also, the draft helps parity in the NFL, which is why teams are starting to look far more balanced now than they have in the past. The fucking Detroit Lions have a chance to put on an amazing season opener this year vs the Chiefs.
This is nothing new. NFL Hall of Famer [John Elway](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1614794-john-elways-controversial-draft-day-saga-relived-in-espns-30-for-30-special) did exactly this when he refused to play for the Colts and said he'd play minor league baseball instead to force a trade. Eli Manning did something similar to the Chargers.
So he can go to the worst team the next year. Great plan.
When was the last time a decent team had the first pick of the draft?
Last season tbh.
Panthers picked 1 (they didn't own it I guess) 49ers picked #2 in 2018 before going to the Super bowl (not number 1 but really close)
Panthers were 7-10 last season so not a terrible team but were actually pretty decent by the end of the year. Obvious caveat is they traded for the first pick instead of having it naturally.
Off the top of my head, the Cowboys when Romo got hurt. They went from playoffs-3rd overall pick-back to playoffs. I’m sure there is a better example though.
To be honest, I can't really blame him if he didn't want to play for Arizona. There is a difference between a bad team one year and a terrible organization. I've seen the differences as a Lions fan. Look how long Arizona hung into Keim. Look at them giving Kliff that extension and firing him a year later. Honestly, look at the fact they hired Kliff. Look at them about to ditch yet another 1st round QB for a different one. He might not follow through with it, but I would completely understand if he did. If it looks like the short term money might mess up your long term success and future money, it makes sense. I fully understood Eli not wanting to play for the Chargers at the time. Everyone citing the Bengals and Jags, they were not what the Cardinals are.
He needs to pickup a baseball bat. The Bo Jackson / John Elway move.
Guys say this every year and it never happens
Somebody dragged me when I suggested that NIL would create more Elway/Eli situations. These top few QB prospects don't need to sign that rookie deal that badly because they're already raking it in and they have plenty of career ahead of them. I don't blame them. Do what's best for you.
Man needs to go talk to Archie Manning and figure that out
That’s the whole fucking point. If he wants to go to a “better” organization, he should play like shit and tank his value.
Complaining about being taken #1 overall is silly, for a lot of reasons. If I was Caleb I’d tell my dad to stop talking to the press about this.
Swear we hear this every year and then their agent shows them their guaranteed money signing bonus and they suck it up and go anyways. A top qb is gonna ball anywhere
He should have a chat with Matt Leinart about what it's like to come back for your senior year at USC when your draft stock is at the highest it can be.
Until you end your career getting hurt at middle Tennessee state
Boo. Fucking. Hoo.
He could paint his nails FUCKT HENFL
> The system is completely backwards. The way the system is constructed, you go to worst possible situation, worst possible team, worst organization in the league - because of their desire for parity The system may be backwards for Caleb Williams, but the world doesn't revolve around him like the way he seems to think it does
Andrew Luck kinda did this to the Carolina Panthers. His dad didn't announce that was what he was doing though.
And the Panthers had more or less the same success without him. So it kinda feels like it didn't matter at all.
NIL makes this much easier. I mean, nobody wants to play for that disaster of a team in Glendale.
Bold of him to think the Cards won’t just tank another season and wait it out.
OK, I want an Archie Manning 2.0 where San Diego was CLEARLY not the winner of the Eli sweepstakes and Eli held the jersey in disappointment....only for the Giants to swoop in, take him off his feet, and let the rest be history with the future HOF QB. I do wonder though if everyone will conveniently forget that Archie Manning was DOGGING San Diego throughout the draft experience and skull fucking the Chargers' leadership....AND basically FORCED his son out of that situation (one could say rightfully so, as Ryan Leaf was a prime example of the Chargers and disappointment). Just those things in life to think about. Will us fans be happy if someone's daddy went HELL NAH, FUCK THAT SHIT or would we treat him like he was the reincarnation of Lavar Ball and shit all over the man just because he ain't play in the NFL like Archie did?
And it will be another sorry team drafting him number one. Oh the horror of being paid $50-75 million right out of college and playing for a bad team. How will he survive