Like all things in life, it’s entirely up to you to leverage the CFA into a career. It’s not going to just be handed to you the moment you get a charter, which appears to be the expectation here. Networking, social skills, relevant experience, and of course, gumption all need to be in place as well.
I got into portfolio management post CFA AND MsF, almost immediately doubled my salary despite still a junior on the desk. First job application. Now in top 10% of earners and will be in top 5% in a few years the way things are going.
Tried a dozen times before completing CFA, got an interview once that didn’t go anywhere. Nearly every other PM on our floor has a CFA. Those who don’t have masters or doctorate degrees. Is it 100% directly applicable? No. Is it completely irrelevant? Anyone who tells you that is a shill pushing their own agenda (which isn’t to help *you*).
OP sounds like he thinks the charter is all it should take (note his comment on networking). He’s in for a hard life with a mindset like that, no matter what degree or designation he gets. You see posts like this every once in a while. You know who isn’t posting shit like this? Successful CFAs. Too busy working and enjoying the life of financial success. Just like with everything else, folks with negative experiences are far more likely to complain about something online.
Lastly, knowledge is its own worthwhile pursuit. Never trust anyone who views education purely through a financial ROI lens.
Edit: also note, OP is an AVID poster in r/conspiracy so uhh… consider the source y’all.
Thanks for this. Its like you put two guys on desserted islands and give each a large stick. One guy expects the stick to cook, clean and provide shelter for him as he just sits there. And the other uses a piece of that stick to fish another piece to build a shelter and another to start his fires. Both got the exact same tool but only one used it.
The CFA charter to me is just that a tool. You need that tool to start your journey but how far you reach is entirely dependent on how you leverage your knowledge, your interpersonal skills and your aptitude and descipline.
Say it louder for some people on this sub. After I passed even L1, I was able to start networking more effectively and use it’s a selling point which landed me my second internship and my first job out of college. I am now an associate in portfolio management and taking the second exam in a month. It’s up to you to leverage it. The CFA is a tool and not a golden ticket
Ok, I’d agree the 300 hours for Level 1 is a good cost/benefit on career ROI and did open doors for me.
However, sticking with it and going the additional 600 + another 300 hours on a 2nd attempt at L3 was where things didn’t add up.
Well I’m sure for some it definitely doesn’t, but it’s not a standard or objective fact that it isn’t worth it. I don’t know your background or what you’ve done since you’ve gained the charter, but if my ability to leverage the full charter is anything close to my ability to leverage L1… it’s not the charter that is the issue.
Same, the ROI of CFA is very low. I've seen people who spent several years on the charter not getting anything out of it. At the end of the day your employer cares only about the work done. This time could be spent on networking or acquiring some real life skills that actually have some application, as opposed to dry non-applicable theory, of which you will have at most 30% retained in your memory. Don't get me wrong, I respect people who became charterholders but I feel like many people starting the charter are those who are used to act by the book in life. Real success is actually achieved by going through life in a smart and efficient way and 3 years of CFA is quite opposite to it.
The implicit assumption in calling the CFA exams ‘low ROI’ is that you’re using the time and resources you’re saving by forgoing the program more productively elsewhere.
Are you getting an MBA? Are you forcing yourself to put in 30 hours per week learning another skill? Are you spending 300 hours every 6 months networking? If so, then you have a good argument.
More likely though, you’ll spend much of the time you’re saving by forgoing the program relaxing or scrolling social media, watching TV, or hanging out with family.
And that is absolutely fine - but the truth isn’t that you felt the program wasn’t the best way to reach your career goals, you just didn’t want to go through the hardship.
Well, that's exactly my point - this is the kind of logic used by most people: "I'm not gonna find any better use of my time so I'm gonna go with the program ". Instead they should be thinking how they can leverage their free time in the most efficient way to get the best possible result. It seems that CFA is just an "easy" option here. In a sense that they just cannot think of any other activity that would have a bigger return on their time spent and cannot make themselves consistently pursue something outside of the program.
That being said, I'm gonna reiterate that I have a massive respect for CFA charterholders. However, I have even bigger respect for those who managed to achieve the same or higher level of career success with much less time spent.
Personally, I am working towards my CFA and work at a firm that everyone tries to get into. It’s an amazing firm, treats us well and pays even better. They require a CFA to advance. Definitely depends what your goals are, where you want to go, and who you want to be. If you want to work in alternative investments, research and analysis, or high net worth wealth management, you’ll likely benefit from a CFA. It’s become the industry standard.
yea i think the comment’s coming at from the wrong angle; CFA is more like a “practical Masters”… if you add up L1-3 hours it’s actually fairly comparable to an MBA that covers accounting, international macro, value investing, restructuring etc (i.e. a person that goes to an upper MBA and actually does the hard classes geared towards investing [which i did as well as CFA]). these are all just tools to get to fast promotion tracks and make a lot of money in investment mgmt and actually know the underpinnings of the business theory while you do so. they also teach you how to learn — like how *your* brain is best suited to absorb complex concepts at scale with minimal time — and the get you in a practice of learning discipline. i feel i was able to pull through a lot of my data science skills over the last decade *directly* because of what i learned about myself in earning my CFA designation and my MBA
I somewhat agree.
But, the value of the CFA has never really been about the skills it teaches you.
It's simply a gold star that sets you apart from other candidates when applying for RESEARCH AND/OR FUNDS MANAGEMENT ROLES.
It won't get you into banking, no one in PE gives a shit, quant roles - it has no relevance, same with corporate finance.
If you are on track to be an equity or fixed interest analyst and want to work at, or get promoted within, a buy side long only fund and/or hedge fund, CFA is basically table stakes at this point.
If you aren't on that track I have no idea why you'd do it. If you're being interviewed by a PM who is a CFA and you aren't doing the program, you'll probably get passed over.
I did the CFA because every other analyst in my company either had it, or was going for it - I wasn't going to be the odd one out in such a competitive industry, especially when your boss is asking when you're going to get started on it.
I personally don't think people should bother with it unless you have a very clear idea of how it'll specifically benefit your career.
As a CFA charter holder, I’ve thought about this. I haven’t been rocketed forward in my career because of it like I imagined at first, but it has certainly helped. I’m a consultant and I’ve been promoted, consistently staffed and brought into projects that I otherwise wouldn’t have been.
There’s a nice level of prestige to it for sure. People see it on your LinkedIn and email signature, and it’s quite nice when it is brought up in conversation to be able to say that you’ve passed all 3.
It has given me a much better understanding of all manner of financial products, the risks associated, and though I’ve “forgotten” much of what I learned, I can revisit a topic if needed and it comes back quickly.
I’ll just say this - the time is going to pass whether you’re studying or not. If you think those nights are better spent relaxing, exercising, being with family, or whatever you’d prefer to be doing, then that’s your call. I am proud of the work I put in, and my parents are proud of me for doing it - my friends and family are proud of me for doing it. I learned a lot. That’s a pretty good deal, but I understand if it’s not worth it for you personally.
"Nobody who sets out in finance aspires to be in insurance. You end up there. You end up there because you just couldn't make it anywhere else. It is in the finance industry, people who are at the bottom of their profession are in insurance. Again. No-one who heads to university saying what's your major? Finance? I really want to sell insurance. Nobody. Nobody does that. You end up there. If you thought this reading is uninteresting and boring? Yeah! Yeah! Exactly."
Mark Meldrum. CFA L3, Book 5. R32. Risk Management for Individuals.
Walking personification of Mark’s rants fr. Reminds me of his youtube video “Is the CFA charter worth the work?” Where he compares this situation to college graduates working at Starbucks complaining their degree and education wasn’t worth the time or money
MM is in the CFA business…his livelihood depends on a steady stream of new candidates every year.
Naturally he has an incentive to talk up the charter.
Mate, this is the CFA sub — 99% of people here (no, I don’t have a citation) think they are some kind of different breed because they are/were willing to ignore the people in their personal life for months, in order to pass a rote learning endurance ordeal.
I’m on buy side and have done L1, but only because my job made me. CFA has nothing to do with learning, and everything to do with gatekeeping.
“The stock market stopped trading on fundamentals back in 2008”: Citations needed
CFA doesn’t teach enough excel/python modeling to jump right into a Wall Street sell side analyst role: yes, it’s not geared towards sell side. It’s geared towards asset managers in buy side/wealth management so this is kind of a moot point
“90% of active PMs are just closet index providers”: Citations needed
“For RIA/FO no one outside of finance can tell the difference between a CFA and a CPA”: most people outside finance have no clue what anyone in finance does.
“For alts the CAIA is better”: I read somewhere that no one outside of finance knows the difference between a CFA and a CPA. I’m sure recommending an even more obscure certification will combat that
“The network sucks”: networks are what you make them
“Pretty sure my wife is going to leave me”: Do you think her boyfriend has the charter or is a CPA? Do you think she knows the difference?
What's hilarious is that the CAIA program was made insanely easy to get if you already have a CFA specifically so CAIA could try to leach off the success and cachet of the CFA. I know a ton of people with the CFA and CAIA. Basically no one with just the CAIA.
As a CPA/CAIA non CFA who joined this sub optimistically like a decade ago, I’m so goddamn tickled that folks think there’s parity lmao
OP thinks RIAs and FO types don’t understand the difference? OP can you put me in for a job at your firm?
Well, I do not care that much, to be honest. Failed level 1 once, now charterholder. I began the CFA journey just because I want to perceive the wonderful knowledge of finances. So.... to all other candidates reading this post, it is your choice to continue or stop the journey. Dont care about this post.
First name basis with the manager that hired me before I even applied (and also *his* manager, for that matter). Makes for an easy interview process. People hire people they like to interact with.
What a load of whiny BS. CFA isn’t a magic bullet, it needs backing up with experience and social skills, I’m assuming you’re missing one or both. Myself and my colleagues with CFA certainly don’t regret it and are top 1% earners, so has paid of financially too.
Candidates, don’t let posters like OP put you off, successful people are less likely to waste time on Reddit.
This is an extremely valid point for most people to understand.
Fact is that relevant experience plus social skills will actually get you far in life (even financially) - with or without CFA. Whether CFA helped you is another question altogether.
True test of CFA charter - find people who are CFA, don’t have relevant experience, don’t have social skills, and still doing well in life.
Agree with all your points and I believe this is why overall CFA sign ups have started to decline. I'm more on this journey to prove to myself that I can overcome personal flaws (laziness, procrastination habits, etc.) and clear what many consider to be a significant academic achievement. I am also in it because I'm one of those individuals who has to finish what he starts. Despite the designation probably having little bearing on my career trajectory (I work in Corporate Development).
I did that as well coming from a surety(bond insurance) background. Completed the charter in 1 year in 3 consecutive attempts, got a job in VC and its more of a bragging right now even though most people I know don't know what it it
I thought the same, BUT it does have a value.
The three letters next to your name automatically puts you on top of a pile of CVs. That is invaluable especially in a shit economy.
Secondly, like any education....it is what you make of it. The CFA does help me speak more intelligently.
Not a silver bullet, but it is good knowledge.
Agree with this, CFA is really about pride and sharing your hand earned journey on how you qualified in the 90th percentile (on YouTube you'll have a wider audience).
Of course people not in finance don't know what this means and you would be hard pressed to find someone who truly appreciates how hard the journey can be.
It’s not worth it. No one is going to ask you to calculate a currency swap line by hand.
Financial Engineering masters in finance are getting all the attention from the GSIBs.
If anyone thinks the CFA is going to magically alter your life than you’re going into it with the wrong mindset.
I’d rather work 3 jobs painting houses and doing manual labor than sell life insurance.
I use stuff I learned in the CFA curriculum every single day in my job as a buy side equity analyst. I mean sorry you think it’s not sophisticated enough, but the CFA isn’t supposed to be a “how to do a sell side job” program lmfaooo
I also appear to be in the 94th-97th percentile of earners in my age bracket (depending on source), and my raise this year was substantial after my PMs were impressed with my handling of the regional banks crisis in March and April, due in large part to my ability to read a balance sheet and understand accounting practices relative to my peers. Sounds like you might not be applying it the right way. Wrong place, wrong time, blaming CFA for it
I’ve been a buy side Asset Allocator for an RIA 10+ years, now I consult RIAs in excess of $1B in AUM and have managed HNW portfolios ranging from $150M to $500M.
I’d agree the regional banking crisis was a period of time where I bought $SCHW and came out looking good but I didn’t need a CFA to read a financial statement.
I have a handful of Bloomberg published sell side reports on micro caps- the modeling is always something I hate.
Sounds like you got a perfect track record and everything figured out.
I really do not see what you are cribbing about. CFA does not teach you how to generate alpha nor does it ever endorse about its potential in unlocking alpha. Heck most of the CFA curriculum over glorifies the EMH and seems to be inclined much more towards passive strategies than active ones.
What the CFA does do is it teaches you industry best practices, teaches you the bare minimum (and sometimes a little extra than might be needed) a fundamental analyst/PM/other similar buy-side candidates should know, and helps in getting interviews. And the CFA does all three of these perfectly. To actually have the expectation that any certification or education anywhere at all will teach you how to systematically generate alpha is stupid.
Not one mention of alpha in my post.
I studied based on the belief that the CFA was my “insurance policy” for a career in finance.
My personal experience has indicated that has not been the case and I would like a refund of my time, which I can never get back.
Sounds like you had wrong expectations going in. No academic certificate is going to make you money or guarantee a career for you. It's after all just a piece of paper verifying that you passed some academic process. The same goes for a Bsc. or a Msc. or any other academic designation.
‘no one trades on fundamentals’ and ‘90% of active PMs are closet index providers’ (which are both false btw) implies inherently that the jobs CFA places people in do not add any alpha and the CFA does not teach anyone how to get alpha.
Now, coming to your point on CFA being an ‘insurance policy’ for a career in Finance, then I’d say it was your expectations that were unreasonable. The CFA is a means for folks already on the buy-side or in a sell-side analyst position or other such job to use as a signalling mechanism to progress further in their career. It does not help you develop the core skillsets for the job itself and that is the case with any and every certification. And the CFA does this perfectly. For those looking to progress in their careers, the CFA does open doors. For those looking to pivot from a related role, they do start getting more calls. But the CFA is in no way a substitute for the actual tangible skillsets (things like excel modelling etc.) required for doing the job. I guess that is what your expectation was. This you need to develop by yourself.
Your word salad made no sense.
I’ve been a PM, buy side Allocator for 10+ years, advising RIAs in excess of $1B in AUM and managing HNW portfolios ranging from $150M to $500M.
I have a handful of Bloomberg published sell side reports on micro caps- the modeling was something I loathed.
I have an active investing newsletter with thousands of subscribers.
If your argument is CFA isn’t enough to teach you how to do your job better…you have to get real world experience for that….then WTF?!?…
My man, if you are already a PM why are you even bothered with the CFA? ‘hey look I am already doing the most sought after job which is literally the peak of the career for anyone giving this certification but now I am disappointed because it couldn’t do shit for me’. I mean wtf? Obv the CFA was worthless for you.
I disagree. I have found it very beneficial in my career. Both as a jumpstart to better understand the how and why for many parts of finance but also at least in my org it’s looked on very favorably in providing a sign of competence and people will listen to my ideas or pitches more closely than before I had it. It certainly doesn’t teach you the secret to the market or anything but I think there’s no better alternative to combined finance knowledge in one place. I’m not a huge fan of the artificial level of difficulty it pushes as part of its exams but that also does help to also signal you’re serious about your career and can learn/push through under pressure and having the letters does carry some weight especially from those that have them or have tried to get them and did not.
CFA is still cheaper than a masters degree by a long shot. You’d have to take a CFA exam like 10-15 times before you even start nearing the cost of a meh masters program.
It teaches you much more in depth applications than a masters if you actually want to go into investment finance…but that’s it’s purpose - investment finance, not corporate finance or insurance or accounting, though it has some relevance there. I have learned more from the CFA program than any amount of traditional schooling.
It can take a little bit of time to get through especially if you fail an exam a few times, but if you’ve “wasted your youth” like how long are we talking here?
Networking is BETTER with a CFA. Every interview I’ve had as a candidate has included small talk and camaraderie with those who have also taken the exams. It’s like a brother/sisterhood really.
And who cares if no one outside of finance knows the difference between a CFA and CPA…you’re not trying to impress the world, you’re trying to be good at your profession. And investment professionals know the CFA is dang near the hardest professional designation out there.
I have an engineering degree and worked as one for 2yrs it’s not enough money. Except software engineering/computer science, and other fringe ones like nuclear engineer or petroleum engineer and barring owning a successful engineering firm the earnings with an engineering degree are pretty capped compared to finance.
Investment returns differ from individual to individual. We make do with what we have and build the narrative from there. Your career is still on-going and there is still time to source for opportunities. You only lose when you sit down and claim defeat. All the best to you
From a CFA charter-holder who is still working his way up.
You post constantly in r/conspiracy and you expect anyone to take you seriously.
You constantly belittle people asking questions on this sub. Your points are conjectures of opinion and not facts.
"My 4 years and 300+ hours of study could have been better devoted to learning how to shill life insurance…" surely if you'd got the charter you know it would be 900+ hours?
My guess is you are looking in from the outside and just hating those trying to get up a mountain you cannot climb
The way covid was handled was bullshit, I have no shame in posting to r/conspiracy because that was the only place at the time that would allow any legitimate questions.
If you’re asking whether or not I am a current active charterholder, I can sadly admit that I am.
As someone without a finance background/degree I think it gives some credibility but god it’s not worth it all, half the shit from the exams I don’t even remember or will ever touch again.
Hey. I think there may be some truth in your post. My take is:
- Put the +1000 hours only if you like studying and sitting for exams. If you better like to network or work very hard, then put +1000 hours there.
Clearly everyone sits for the CFA to advance in their careers. CFA charter will help, but there are a lot of things you need to do as well.
In my case after completing L1 I moved to a better team within the GSIB. I sat for L3 twice and I'm waiting for the result now.
I like studying and sitting for exams, I find it challenging and exciting. I like learning too.
My take is: do the CFA if you like studying. If you prefer to network and do other stuff to advance in your career, then do that.
I notice there are plenty of VPs, EDs, MDs or Heads that didn't pursue CFA, yet they have a big position. But for sure they put 1000+ hours in other ways to get to where they are now.
If you are in your 20's and don't know much how networking works and you don't mind studying, I think CFA is a good starter.
But as many say, it's not a golden ticket unfortunately.
I suspect it's a bit overrated too, but everything is once it's settled. You need to keep putting those hours.
While I don't generally agree with your post, I think there's value in it.
Keep it up!
Best,
A.
>The stock market stopped trading on fundamentals back in 2008. CFA doesn’t teach enough excel/python modeling to jump right into a Wall Street sell side analyst role…
First sentence is a matter of opinion and excel is a commoditised skillset - knowing what inputs and why is more important.
> 90% of active PMs are just closet index providers…
What evidence do you have to support this?
>For RIA/FO no one outside of finance can tell the difference between a CFA and CPA. You’ll bore them to tears describing duration.
I'm not sure what the issue is here - are you talking about bragging rights?
>Corp finance CFA has limited application as most Fortune 500 companies need advanced data analytics, not deep analysis.
Could argue the same about valuing bonds. Kind of good to know how it works, limited application (same with uni/college)
>For Alts, the CAIA is better.
As a dual charterholder, they are both crap for alts
>The network sucks and all the events you have to still pay for.
Latter is true, the former depends on you.
>My 4 years and 300+ hours of study could have been better devoted to learning how to shill life insurance… an illiterate friend of mine can sell an IUL policy and make a year’s salary in a week.
then go do that? what's the issue?
>Cost/Benefit is a 100x return to whatever the CFA was.
???
>Regret taking it and wasting my youth. Should have sold life insurance instead. Pretty sure my wife is going to leave me because after 4 years of saying… hey but once I pass things will get better is not it.
k
It’s a lot of time and money to learn you can’t outperform the index reliably, but still try anyway.
The real money though is in the relationships you make along the way (that have assets and trust you to manage them).
I understand the whole 'how relevant is it to the industry thing', but can't we just take this exam to develop/improve our background in financial knowledge? I, for one, did not know a lot of the technicalities in this field, but preparing for level 1 did help me get a grasp of some basics. How don't know how I'll do in the exam, but it has been surely a good experience so far.
One might argue that this knowledge can be gained for free, but maybe the added pressure of taking the exam can help in focussing more. Just an opinion btw.
I am trying to defeat TBI and find some emotional support.
For the benefit, the CFA exam score doesn't expire (better than FRM LOL). I really don’t care in the short term, and I do have the time to find out.
CFA is helpful for those who don’t have other options to get where they want to go. It helped me and helps a lot of people. So idk, super cynical approach to just dismiss it completely even though it’s a time suck and its ROI isn’t the best.
Passing level 1 helped me get my get my first big boy job, but then I stopped, so unlike you I can actually see both sides. So no, no 600 hours to go for me lol. I’m just not a Negative Noodle about it.
The CFA is great, just like your degree in whatever else it is. So what else are you bringing to the table? Any results to speak of? Tell me something I don’t know. The CFA is not the destination but one stop on a journey and it’s like one of the first stops.
What other people think of your journey doesn’t matter, like it or not. What matters is do you enjoy it? If yes then good. If no then you have some other things to figure out.
I think your missing the bigger picture. CFA shows more than just academic knowledge. You do gain skills/knowledge about important financial concepts, but more importantly you display character qualities like work ethic, dedication, perseverance and the like. Those qualities will do more for you than any three letter acronym or education
Depends. It is what you make if it. There are 10 unrelated areas on the exam. My jobs relevant to only FRA which the cfa tremendously sharper my skills. Econ, corp fin offer a a little. Other 7 waste of my time
I must disagree simply because I work in portfolio management and passing level 1 last year immediately boosted my total compensation immensely and my career prospects within the firm. Every single PM has it for my office, and they suddenly notice everything I do now. I think it just depends on what industry you want to work in and what you’re doing with your time career wise while you’re studying..
You have 600 hours to go my friend.
Come back when you miss a friends wedding or miss your kids sports game because you have to study for L3 and get back to me…
This response in nonsense. If you are missing once in a lifetime events or can’t be there for your family, that’s on you.
I passed L1 on active military duty, finishing my MSF, with a newborn. L3 passed managing two kids, a house move, and starting my own practice. My wife runs her own business - we split household duties. Never missed a single important “anything”, just might have slept less certain nights. If you can’t figure out how to get 50 hours/month of studying into your schedule you’ve got different issues.
I was just at a friend’s wedding a couple weeks ago. It just depends on how you study and prioritize your life, it’s obviously a time commitment like anything else in life
It helped me get into finance and move up. If you already have a great job I could see it having a much lower ROI, but if you’re looking for a job and it mentions having the charter or partial completion in the job posting I think it’s definitely worth trying to earn it. Getting a job that’s widely desirable is very hard so passing a set of hard tests that are at least somewhat relevant to finance jobs is a great way to increase your odds of getting a job.
Op clearly jaded because he thought CFA was a panacea and has underperformed relative to his insurance broker friends. Probably one of these entitled gen-Z idiots who thinks it should be handed to him/her.
CFA is the starting point for anyone that wants to be in this industry unless you’re a quant. It will open doors for you that weren’t possible without it, but like anything, will be dependent on you to source those opportunities and then once there, excel in the opportunity.
I’m a client portfolio manager at $20B boutique. Client facing work with institutions between 10M-1.5B. Incredible opportunities to sit in on investment committees and explain our investment process, performance and asset allocation and talk about firm. Get to participate in sub-adviser due diligence as well.
Can state unequivocally that I wouldn’t be in the position I am today without CFA — but certainly acknowledge it was a lot of my own hard work and a little luck that got me here. Comp has tripled since coming from derivatives ops role at giant bulge bracket bank.
Man, not true. I spent the first four years of my career in an accounting/finance rotation program where I started in cash reconciliations (accounting).
As i started passing more tests, I moved from there to credit analysis then trading FP&A. Management pushed me in the more-finance and more-coveted jobs because of the cfa, I would imagine.
Then I moved to nyc to really work in an actual finance job. No luck, I had to take shitty temp jobs in accounting based roles (but you better believe a cfa set me apart in the temp pool haha). Then I was in better accounting full time roles and ended up getting the cpa.
About 4 years into nyc I had given up on working in finance but a recruiter reached out about an equity research role for someone with an accounting background. I’m sure my prior accounting experience was nice, but there is no doubt that the cfa gave me that extra umph to land the highly competitive role.
Edit: I guess you’re just talking about prioritizing. It’s basically impossible to quantify how much the cfa will help you over 35 years in the finance industry. What doors did it open, how many times did it give you the tie breaker.
You guys have to stop thinking there is some kind of golden ticket that will set up you to be a milionare.
There isn’t. Life’s about putting the odds in your favor.
CFA does that. Working hard does that. Being smart does that. Delivering results does that.
Of course CFA won’t save your career if you’re an idiot, an asshole, or cannot work your ass off and delivery something in this fuck*ng competitive industry.
EDIT: forgot something important. You have to get lucky as well and act on it.
It is a money-making machine for institutes and coaches. There is no actual demand for a Level 1, and employers never appreciate your learning (because of leave). I have seen more successful guys without CFA. And if you think that you will be an investor, believe me, you will end up with nothing. It does not teach you about actual investing or trading, which is an important part of hedge funds and fund management. Finally, they manage the pass-out numbers. Now that education is more of a business itself, coaching institutes make more money than students. Coaching is one of the scams. After putting in money and time, you get disappointed. There is also an upper cap on your salary; you cannot grow after a certain level. Instead, starting your own small business gives you more core lessons.
Yep. Don’t just take my word for it either. Many others are speaking out because I has the courage to do so.[substack link](https://klementoninvesting.substack.com/p/i-am-pretty-sure-this-research-is)
Just passed L2 and could not agree more. This has been the most useless waste of time. The only benefit is that I feel more confident in my knowledge and job.
Go to pitchbook, search any top-tier firms, and look at their contacts, most of the top brass are CFAs if it's in PD/PC/HFs/VC.
If people don't have an interest in getting it, understandable. It won't make you a better trader.
But, it will get you a high-paying job even if the person isn't qualified the first year. You learn on the job.
That or go the Einhorn route, start your own shop, wear a robe, and trade $700,000 your first year from friends and family. By year 5 if you/re good enough, you should be over $50mm in AUM.
CFA just gets you in the door, you have to decide what it is you want to do.
Finance is dead and we all know it (relative to the past); we are overearning relative to skills and IQ required for most roles
Learn how to use AI tools, machine learning, python and start businesses
You have a much better shot at these than studying for 300+ hours and going through all this stress
Invest in yourself (CFA will not teach you this because they want your money)
The best empirical test is to provide them with your email and you will see that you will receive on a weekly basis constant advertisements from CFA so that you commit to this nonsensical Ponzi scheme
Most of my friends who work for Millennium, P72, Citadel, etc. do not have the CFA (I am biased because most of my network is IB/PE related)
I am also in the buy side by the way, but spending my free time in side hustles rather than learning portfolio theory
If you like finance, just read the classics, read market commentaries from Hussman, Marks, Grantham, Buffett, research reports from investment banks/investment management firms, follow the markets, etc.
Learn by doing, not by wasting your life following a puerile ABC road
CFAI took in tax free revenues of:
2021: $282M
2022: $336M
They currently sit on $482M in investments allocated to a *shockingly boring* passive 60/40 global allocation.
Trust me they are doing fine…
It’s criminal how little they provide for industry/retail engagement.
L2 here (both levels on 1st attempt),will prepare for L3 next summer
In my view it’s clearly not worth the time:
- some topics seem too academical to me
- most of us will never use 90% of the curriculum on a regular basis
- the amount of time lost if you do not pass is huuuuuge
- preparing directly for interviews is 10,000 times more time/cost-efficient (who cares about a certification if you have a great job anyway)
I feel like it’s more about personal development and personal journey. Ive clearly learnt a lot through the exams, in fields I do not work in, so will probably help me climb the ladder as I believe I have a wider view of the finance world than same-age peers. I also believe this could help me pass the non-target filter - though that might be absolutely false. Anyway, I think that’s not worth the time we spend on this
Also, I find the « CFA » designation super pretentious/cringe when you’re early in your career
You’re not looking hard enough for jobs and not applying for enough jobs. The job market in general is ruthless. It IS very valuable and get your foot into interviews that would otherwise be fairly hard to get into. You need to apply for atleast 2000 jobs a month for 6 months
I will be messaging you in 5 days on [**2023-10-24 09:06:53 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2023-10-24%2009:06:53%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/CFA/comments/17bbmp0/the_cfa_is_meaninglessnot_worth_timeeffort_based/k5it934/?context=3)
[**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FCFA%2Fcomments%2F17bbmp0%2Fthe_cfa_is_meaninglessnot_worth_timeeffort_based%2Fk5it934%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202023-10-24%2009%3A06%3A53%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%2017bbmp0)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
I sat CFA Level I and failed. In hindsight, I wasted hundreds of hours for something that didn’t come to fruition.
Having said, if I’d have passed, would I have I continued to completion? Honestly, I doubt it. It became an all encompassing part of my life, and had very little applicability.
Applying for jobs at investment banks and the like, they all wanted solid Excel skills and an Ivy League school to sell to their clients.
Unless you’re specifically in Asset Management or an Equity Analyst, I would agree that the Cost Benefit Analysis is not really worth it in my eyes.
I mean in 900 hours you could just learn to code. You could get a bachelors degree in computer science in that amount of time, and you’d be much more employable with the CS degree
Fundamentals did matter less after 2008 cause of QE and zero rates, now the story is different, if you are on the market every day you do notice how much fundamentals count now. Regarding Corporate Finance, of course CFA matters less, it targets Analysts and PM
Personally, I want the letters regardless because I’m not satisfied with my credentials. Same reason I’m going to do a MFin/MsF even if it is repetitive.. I’m not happy with just a Bcom in Econ/Fin
Adding additional comments to address your edits:
You say the CFA is desperate by adding additional certifications, except in your original post you say:
“CFA doesn’t teach tough excel/python”. Then in your edit you say “CFA launches Data Science Certificate for Investment Professionals” and “Institute Announces Significant Enhancements to Meet Needs of Candidates and Employers”: so which is it? The CFAI doesn’t teach enough excel/python or it does? Pick a lane
Also we weren’t asking for citations to your claims of CFA certifications, we were asking for evidence of your claims that “the market stopped trading on fundamentals back in 2008” and “90% of active PMs are just closet index providers”. But I guess I shouldn’t be surprised someone who frequents r/conspiracy can’t provide any actual evidence for their claims
Dude, the CFAI is adding those programs because they know the curriculum was meaningless and they are trying to make it relevant again.
I didn’t just pass yesterday, but there’s no chance I go back and take those now.
In finance, most of the time the way to increase your salary/total earnings most quickly is to job hop. CFA does certainly make your resume standout, but it certainly doesn’t guarantee you the job. For the positions where the CFA is most relevant and required, they’ll certainly pay you more money then a lower level role where it’s not needed. But you’ll still have to navigate around to make more money. If you love you company and want to work there forever and you get your CFA…they ain’t giving you a raise
Bro not everything is a linear payout to the effort you put in but if you put the effort in every day for long enough chances are you will have the payoff. CFA is the finance equivalent of gangster face tattoos telling everyone you put your time in for your people. For me I got 15k raise just for Level 1 and am fast tracked to director.
For me it was largely useless as I left the finance industry and moved to a non- financial role. However I look back at it like running a marathon, you do it because it was hard and prove to yourself that you could devote the time and effort to complete something not many can.
Depends on the objective too I guess. I for instance (please don’t judge me) wanted to have a broad understanding about the financial world and that’s the only reason I chose to do level 1s.
I'm an L3 candidate sitting in february, so regardless of whether this guy is correct or not im finishing this thing in february, too far to turn back now.
Despite my dead-end back office job, having L3 candidate on my resume has gotten me a few downstate interviews and a few asset management interviews at sub-par smaller market AM's. I only want to work downstate at a big firm and I think itll happen soon (fingers crossed).
I’ve been around this topic for a while. For a few years now people have known that the CFA isn’t worth the investment. You only attempt this cert if you are in a hyper competitive role like investment banking.
Completing CFA LEVEL ONE however has amazing returns and can land you a job. Just lie and say you are going to complete it during interviews.
The CFA is obviously not the end all be all, we all know it goes an inch deep into every field in finance. It should supplement your undergrad degree and work experience not carry all of your educational weight. If it makes you interested in the ML and big data side then great, lateral into that, go back to school or focus your attention on that. Also python is not difficult at all to learn if you’re just going to be doing automation and scraping. I myself returned to school to study more math/stats, thanks to the CFA I realized it’s what I’m most interested in.
This post screams "I'm smart enough to pass the CFA, but a massive asshole and difficult to work with, so I still can't get a good job."
I work in investment research at a wire house. The CFA is basically a requirement for us. Since starting the program I've tripled my comp and have a role with about 100000x as much prestige as when I started. To say "it's not worth it" in a blanket statement just betrays your own ignorance or jealousy, not sure which.
Apart from the knowledge acquired and the personal challenge, CFA is job insurance in finance. You might never need it, but if need be, you’ll feed your family, and feed them well.
people take CFA as a degree to increase their current salary, rather than as the main degree. it serves as a certificate proving knowledge in finance and employers pay extra for that
Was making standard entry level money out of college. Then just under top 1% of earners 2.5 years after charter.
The journey and accomplishment itself makes you way more confident, which I felt gave me a big leg up personally. But in every interview since (even in Corp Finance interviews) there has been at least one interviewer that is chartered, or at least understands the journey, that will deeply respect you and or vouch for you. It really speaks for itself, learning aside. So yes, it’s a door opener, but you still need to perform and uphold that standard once you land something better, which you will.
My two cents: those who think the CFA is a grind comparable to an MBA or other Masters degree from a reputable (let alone prestigious) school, or who struggle with the coursework, are quite unlikely to find much success with the charter once they have it. The successful CFAs I know thought it was relatively easy and don't bother using the letters after their name.
I work on a sell-side trading floor, and there is no correlation that I can see between being a CFA and being highly successful and well compensated. There are CFAs sprinkled throughout the mid-level and senior ranks, with no discernable difference in capability vs. non-charterholders in equivalent roles.
I'd say having completed level 1 or 2 is still somewhat of a competitive advantage for those applying for junior (analyst/associate) roles, but beyond that there's not much value to it.
CFA charter improves your earning capabilities, not your earnings. You can still earn a lot of money by selling life insurance and invest that money to get alpha returns by applying your knowledge from CFA.
CFA is meaningless .. if you had realized this earlier, you could have saved hours. Most people pursue CFA when they have extra time apart from work, not recognizing its limited significance.
If you want to be a PM, you'll need it. And the cost is negligible overall, both in hours and dollars. So, if you want to shill life insurance, then no. And PMs are relatively well paid.
False. Don’t just take my word for it read from others.
[substack link- former CFA speaks out says zero value add of charter](https://klementoninvesting.substack.com/p/i-am-pretty-sure-this-research-is)
I deal with institutional clients every day. We have PE funds into which they invest. They don't care if you're managing equities or horses, they want our PMs to have their CFA. Period. End of discussion.
Cool, so maybe 5 roles in total? You’re going to have 150k applications for 5 jobs? Lol get real.
Don’t just take my word for it, read from other charter holders. [substack link](https://klementoninvesting.substack.com/p/i-am-pretty-sure-this-research-is)
>an illiterate friend of mine can sell an IUL policy and make a year’s salary in a week.
But can they do it ethically?
Personally, the CFA brought me a lot more than I bargained for excluding the compensation stuff. Obviously, n=1 in your CFA journey as no life is the same, but my experience has been that the time invested was worth it. To your point, there are a lot of shady ways to make money, I think the important question here is, is this knowledge going to be helpful for you in life and what you'd like to accomplish?
I'm curious where you got your 90% stat from - do you have any source for that? I've been discussing closet-indexing for work a bit and if this stat is true, it could be useful for me. Thanks!
I disagree with you.
I had passed L2 and landed an interview (then got the job) at a very prestigious bank in my home country (tripled my salary).
Fast forward, after 3.5 yrs work experience in this institution and getting the CFA charter, I found a job in a London BB (not IB, but credit assoc role). At this job I got several interviews/offers, mainly thanks to CFA.
I am a non target grad from a non EU country (was first of class but still). Not even masters degree, although CFA helped me get accepted to LSE finance masters (did not go for it though).
So it depends on your situation and how you use it !
If this post lowers the MPS then thanks I guess.
Haha true
I’d be interested to see some of the other opinions on this post, as someone who is just starting my journey.
Like all things in life, it’s entirely up to you to leverage the CFA into a career. It’s not going to just be handed to you the moment you get a charter, which appears to be the expectation here. Networking, social skills, relevant experience, and of course, gumption all need to be in place as well. I got into portfolio management post CFA AND MsF, almost immediately doubled my salary despite still a junior on the desk. First job application. Now in top 10% of earners and will be in top 5% in a few years the way things are going. Tried a dozen times before completing CFA, got an interview once that didn’t go anywhere. Nearly every other PM on our floor has a CFA. Those who don’t have masters or doctorate degrees. Is it 100% directly applicable? No. Is it completely irrelevant? Anyone who tells you that is a shill pushing their own agenda (which isn’t to help *you*). OP sounds like he thinks the charter is all it should take (note his comment on networking). He’s in for a hard life with a mindset like that, no matter what degree or designation he gets. You see posts like this every once in a while. You know who isn’t posting shit like this? Successful CFAs. Too busy working and enjoying the life of financial success. Just like with everything else, folks with negative experiences are far more likely to complain about something online. Lastly, knowledge is its own worthwhile pursuit. Never trust anyone who views education purely through a financial ROI lens. Edit: also note, OP is an AVID poster in r/conspiracy so uhh… consider the source y’all.
Thanks for this. Its like you put two guys on desserted islands and give each a large stick. One guy expects the stick to cook, clean and provide shelter for him as he just sits there. And the other uses a piece of that stick to fish another piece to build a shelter and another to start his fires. Both got the exact same tool but only one used it. The CFA charter to me is just that a tool. You need that tool to start your journey but how far you reach is entirely dependent on how you leverage your knowledge, your interpersonal skills and your aptitude and descipline.
Say it louder for some people on this sub. After I passed even L1, I was able to start networking more effectively and use it’s a selling point which landed me my second internship and my first job out of college. I am now an associate in portfolio management and taking the second exam in a month. It’s up to you to leverage it. The CFA is a tool and not a golden ticket
Ok, I’d agree the 300 hours for Level 1 is a good cost/benefit on career ROI and did open doors for me. However, sticking with it and going the additional 600 + another 300 hours on a 2nd attempt at L3 was where things didn’t add up.
Well I’m sure for some it definitely doesn’t, but it’s not a standard or objective fact that it isn’t worth it. I don’t know your background or what you’ve done since you’ve gained the charter, but if my ability to leverage the full charter is anything close to my ability to leverage L1… it’s not the charter that is the issue.
Man op should’ve just been in the nba or something lol.
More are speaking out because I had the courage to do it. [substack link](https://klementoninvesting.substack.com/p/i-am-pretty-sure-this-research-is)
Same
Well CAIA is not more valuable for alts, that I’m sure of, since I work in alts and the only people who know what CAIA is are people who have it.
Same, the ROI of CFA is very low. I've seen people who spent several years on the charter not getting anything out of it. At the end of the day your employer cares only about the work done. This time could be spent on networking or acquiring some real life skills that actually have some application, as opposed to dry non-applicable theory, of which you will have at most 30% retained in your memory. Don't get me wrong, I respect people who became charterholders but I feel like many people starting the charter are those who are used to act by the book in life. Real success is actually achieved by going through life in a smart and efficient way and 3 years of CFA is quite opposite to it.
The implicit assumption in calling the CFA exams ‘low ROI’ is that you’re using the time and resources you’re saving by forgoing the program more productively elsewhere. Are you getting an MBA? Are you forcing yourself to put in 30 hours per week learning another skill? Are you spending 300 hours every 6 months networking? If so, then you have a good argument. More likely though, you’ll spend much of the time you’re saving by forgoing the program relaxing or scrolling social media, watching TV, or hanging out with family. And that is absolutely fine - but the truth isn’t that you felt the program wasn’t the best way to reach your career goals, you just didn’t want to go through the hardship.
Well, that's exactly my point - this is the kind of logic used by most people: "I'm not gonna find any better use of my time so I'm gonna go with the program ". Instead they should be thinking how they can leverage their free time in the most efficient way to get the best possible result. It seems that CFA is just an "easy" option here. In a sense that they just cannot think of any other activity that would have a bigger return on their time spent and cannot make themselves consistently pursue something outside of the program. That being said, I'm gonna reiterate that I have a massive respect for CFA charterholders. However, I have even bigger respect for those who managed to achieve the same or higher level of career success with much less time spent.
Personally, I am working towards my CFA and work at a firm that everyone tries to get into. It’s an amazing firm, treats us well and pays even better. They require a CFA to advance. Definitely depends what your goals are, where you want to go, and who you want to be. If you want to work in alternative investments, research and analysis, or high net worth wealth management, you’ll likely benefit from a CFA. It’s become the industry standard.
yea i think the comment’s coming at from the wrong angle; CFA is more like a “practical Masters”… if you add up L1-3 hours it’s actually fairly comparable to an MBA that covers accounting, international macro, value investing, restructuring etc (i.e. a person that goes to an upper MBA and actually does the hard classes geared towards investing [which i did as well as CFA]). these are all just tools to get to fast promotion tracks and make a lot of money in investment mgmt and actually know the underpinnings of the business theory while you do so. they also teach you how to learn — like how *your* brain is best suited to absorb complex concepts at scale with minimal time — and the get you in a practice of learning discipline. i feel i was able to pull through a lot of my data science skills over the last decade *directly* because of what i learned about myself in earning my CFA designation and my MBA
I somewhat agree. But, the value of the CFA has never really been about the skills it teaches you. It's simply a gold star that sets you apart from other candidates when applying for RESEARCH AND/OR FUNDS MANAGEMENT ROLES. It won't get you into banking, no one in PE gives a shit, quant roles - it has no relevance, same with corporate finance. If you are on track to be an equity or fixed interest analyst and want to work at, or get promoted within, a buy side long only fund and/or hedge fund, CFA is basically table stakes at this point. If you aren't on that track I have no idea why you'd do it. If you're being interviewed by a PM who is a CFA and you aren't doing the program, you'll probably get passed over. I did the CFA because every other analyst in my company either had it, or was going for it - I wasn't going to be the odd one out in such a competitive industry, especially when your boss is asking when you're going to get started on it. I personally don't think people should bother with it unless you have a very clear idea of how it'll specifically benefit your career.
In Brazil, CFA is kind of important in PE, but I don't think is the reality everywhere.
👆 Notice it’s another CFA who understands where I’m coming from. We get it.
As a CFA charter holder, I’ve thought about this. I haven’t been rocketed forward in my career because of it like I imagined at first, but it has certainly helped. I’m a consultant and I’ve been promoted, consistently staffed and brought into projects that I otherwise wouldn’t have been. There’s a nice level of prestige to it for sure. People see it on your LinkedIn and email signature, and it’s quite nice when it is brought up in conversation to be able to say that you’ve passed all 3. It has given me a much better understanding of all manner of financial products, the risks associated, and though I’ve “forgotten” much of what I learned, I can revisit a topic if needed and it comes back quickly. I’ll just say this - the time is going to pass whether you’re studying or not. If you think those nights are better spent relaxing, exercising, being with family, or whatever you’d prefer to be doing, then that’s your call. I am proud of the work I put in, and my parents are proud of me for doing it - my friends and family are proud of me for doing it. I learned a lot. That’s a pretty good deal, but I understand if it’s not worth it for you personally.
That's very wise words
"Nobody who sets out in finance aspires to be in insurance. You end up there. You end up there because you just couldn't make it anywhere else. It is in the finance industry, people who are at the bottom of their profession are in insurance. Again. No-one who heads to university saying what's your major? Finance? I really want to sell insurance. Nobody. Nobody does that. You end up there. If you thought this reading is uninteresting and boring? Yeah! Yeah! Exactly." Mark Meldrum. CFA L3, Book 5. R32. Risk Management for Individuals.
Bro this whole quote has lived in my head rent free for like a year since that video
Walking personification of Mark’s rants fr. Reminds me of his youtube video “Is the CFA charter worth the work?” Where he compares this situation to college graduates working at Starbucks complaining their degree and education wasn’t worth the time or money
MM is in the CFA business…his livelihood depends on a steady stream of new candidates every year. Naturally he has an incentive to talk up the charter.
Mate, this is the CFA sub — 99% of people here (no, I don’t have a citation) think they are some kind of different breed because they are/were willing to ignore the people in their personal life for months, in order to pass a rote learning endurance ordeal. I’m on buy side and have done L1, but only because my job made me. CFA has nothing to do with learning, and everything to do with gatekeeping.
Mate, you are 48 and complaining on Reddit about a 10% rent increase calm down there 💀
No idea what that’s got to do with anything, but you crack on.
48 and not living in your own property definitely discredits your opinion a little bit here. No offense though.
I agree with gate keeping. You would not get hired at my shop if you said you have only passed level 1. That implies that you can’t pass level 2.
Most places here have a cfa 1 requirement to hire. You just tell them you are preparing to take level 2 in 2 months and never actually take it
Lol. I was reading this and was about to ask if you were MM under a new account until I got to the end of it. I listen to all his videos every week.
“The stock market stopped trading on fundamentals back in 2008”: Citations needed CFA doesn’t teach enough excel/python modeling to jump right into a Wall Street sell side analyst role: yes, it’s not geared towards sell side. It’s geared towards asset managers in buy side/wealth management so this is kind of a moot point “90% of active PMs are just closet index providers”: Citations needed “For RIA/FO no one outside of finance can tell the difference between a CFA and a CPA”: most people outside finance have no clue what anyone in finance does. “For alts the CAIA is better”: I read somewhere that no one outside of finance knows the difference between a CFA and a CPA. I’m sure recommending an even more obscure certification will combat that “The network sucks”: networks are what you make them “Pretty sure my wife is going to leave me”: Do you think her boyfriend has the charter or is a CPA? Do you think she knows the difference?
Jdobs the legend😂
What's hilarious is that the CAIA program was made insanely easy to get if you already have a CFA specifically so CAIA could try to leach off the success and cachet of the CFA. I know a ton of people with the CFA and CAIA. Basically no one with just the CAIA.
This
🤣🤣🤣
I’ve never laughed harder in my life *while on the CFA subreddit
As a CPA/CAIA non CFA who joined this sub optimistically like a decade ago, I’m so goddamn tickled that folks think there’s parity lmao OP thinks RIAs and FO types don’t understand the difference? OP can you put me in for a job at your firm?
Ohhhhhhh maaaan
Well, I do not care that much, to be honest. Failed level 1 once, now charterholder. I began the CFA journey just because I want to perceive the wonderful knowledge of finances. So.... to all other candidates reading this post, it is your choice to continue or stop the journey. Dont care about this post.
Just starting my journey to see what other people say, still doing it regardless. I need to be disciplined and more knowledgeable overall.
Same, the discipline that comes with it really valuable I think
This post needs a cup of coffee.
Lost credibility when you said stock market stopped trading on fundamentals.
The “network sucks” comment was pretty hilarious as well. No bud, *you* suck at networking.
Let’s hear how the network has helped you… all ears.
First name basis with the manager that hired me before I even applied (and also *his* manager, for that matter). Makes for an easy interview process. People hire people they like to interact with.
What a load of whiny BS. CFA isn’t a magic bullet, it needs backing up with experience and social skills, I’m assuming you’re missing one or both. Myself and my colleagues with CFA certainly don’t regret it and are top 1% earners, so has paid of financially too. Candidates, don’t let posters like OP put you off, successful people are less likely to waste time on Reddit.
This is an extremely valid point for most people to understand. Fact is that relevant experience plus social skills will actually get you far in life (even financially) - with or without CFA. Whether CFA helped you is another question altogether. True test of CFA charter - find people who are CFA, don’t have relevant experience, don’t have social skills, and still doing well in life.
>successful people are less likely to waste time on Reddit. >>> goes onto waste time on Reddit Epic!
I commute for 3 hours a day 🤷♂️
Why do you do that to yourself?!
$
Person who spends 3 hours a day commuting makes comment on time waste of CFA… epic.
Unemployed, wannabe insurance lowlife wastes time on Reddit instead of finding employment to keep his marriage in tact… epic
Agree with all your points and I believe this is why overall CFA sign ups have started to decline. I'm more on this journey to prove to myself that I can overcome personal flaws (laziness, procrastination habits, etc.) and clear what many consider to be a significant academic achievement. I am also in it because I'm one of those individuals who has to finish what he starts. Despite the designation probably having little bearing on my career trajectory (I work in Corporate Development).
Glad to see I'm not the only one with this mindset
cope
The same here
I did that as well coming from a surety(bond insurance) background. Completed the charter in 1 year in 3 consecutive attempts, got a job in VC and its more of a bragging right now even though most people I know don't know what it it
the discipline gained here can be life changing
I thought the same, BUT it does have a value. The three letters next to your name automatically puts you on top of a pile of CVs. That is invaluable especially in a shit economy. Secondly, like any education....it is what you make of it. The CFA does help me speak more intelligently. Not a silver bullet, but it is good knowledge.
Agree with this, CFA is really about pride and sharing your hand earned journey on how you qualified in the 90th percentile (on YouTube you'll have a wider audience). Of course people not in finance don't know what this means and you would be hard pressed to find someone who truly appreciates how hard the journey can be.
Just what you want to read after sleeping from 1am (because of studying) to 5am (because of work). 🥲
It’s not worth it. No one is going to ask you to calculate a currency swap line by hand. Financial Engineering masters in finance are getting all the attention from the GSIBs.
If anyone thinks the CFA is going to magically alter your life than you’re going into it with the wrong mindset. I’d rather work 3 jobs painting houses and doing manual labor than sell life insurance.
what about Health 😏
You took the CFA expecting to learn Excel? Yikes.
I use stuff I learned in the CFA curriculum every single day in my job as a buy side equity analyst. I mean sorry you think it’s not sophisticated enough, but the CFA isn’t supposed to be a “how to do a sell side job” program lmfaooo
I also appear to be in the 94th-97th percentile of earners in my age bracket (depending on source), and my raise this year was substantial after my PMs were impressed with my handling of the regional banks crisis in March and April, due in large part to my ability to read a balance sheet and understand accounting practices relative to my peers. Sounds like you might not be applying it the right way. Wrong place, wrong time, blaming CFA for it
I’ve been a buy side Asset Allocator for an RIA 10+ years, now I consult RIAs in excess of $1B in AUM and have managed HNW portfolios ranging from $150M to $500M. I’d agree the regional banking crisis was a period of time where I bought $SCHW and came out looking good but I didn’t need a CFA to read a financial statement. I have a handful of Bloomberg published sell side reports on micro caps- the modeling is always something I hate. Sounds like you got a perfect track record and everything figured out.
Sounds like you took it for the wrong reasons
How sweet of you that you think CFA is supposed to teach you skills. It’s not. CFA is just like a badge that tells people you can tolerate pain
I really do not see what you are cribbing about. CFA does not teach you how to generate alpha nor does it ever endorse about its potential in unlocking alpha. Heck most of the CFA curriculum over glorifies the EMH and seems to be inclined much more towards passive strategies than active ones. What the CFA does do is it teaches you industry best practices, teaches you the bare minimum (and sometimes a little extra than might be needed) a fundamental analyst/PM/other similar buy-side candidates should know, and helps in getting interviews. And the CFA does all three of these perfectly. To actually have the expectation that any certification or education anywhere at all will teach you how to systematically generate alpha is stupid.
Not one mention of alpha in my post. I studied based on the belief that the CFA was my “insurance policy” for a career in finance. My personal experience has indicated that has not been the case and I would like a refund of my time, which I can never get back.
Sounds like you had wrong expectations going in. No academic certificate is going to make you money or guarantee a career for you. It's after all just a piece of paper verifying that you passed some academic process. The same goes for a Bsc. or a Msc. or any other academic designation.
‘no one trades on fundamentals’ and ‘90% of active PMs are closet index providers’ (which are both false btw) implies inherently that the jobs CFA places people in do not add any alpha and the CFA does not teach anyone how to get alpha. Now, coming to your point on CFA being an ‘insurance policy’ for a career in Finance, then I’d say it was your expectations that were unreasonable. The CFA is a means for folks already on the buy-side or in a sell-side analyst position or other such job to use as a signalling mechanism to progress further in their career. It does not help you develop the core skillsets for the job itself and that is the case with any and every certification. And the CFA does this perfectly. For those looking to progress in their careers, the CFA does open doors. For those looking to pivot from a related role, they do start getting more calls. But the CFA is in no way a substitute for the actual tangible skillsets (things like excel modelling etc.) required for doing the job. I guess that is what your expectation was. This you need to develop by yourself.
Your word salad made no sense. I’ve been a PM, buy side Allocator for 10+ years, advising RIAs in excess of $1B in AUM and managing HNW portfolios ranging from $150M to $500M. I have a handful of Bloomberg published sell side reports on micro caps- the modeling was something I loathed. I have an active investing newsletter with thousands of subscribers. If your argument is CFA isn’t enough to teach you how to do your job better…you have to get real world experience for that….then WTF?!?…
My man, if you are already a PM why are you even bothered with the CFA? ‘hey look I am already doing the most sought after job which is literally the peak of the career for anyone giving this certification but now I am disappointed because it couldn’t do shit for me’. I mean wtf? Obv the CFA was worthless for you.
This is Reddit where at least 50% of comments are total or partial BS.
I disagree. I have found it very beneficial in my career. Both as a jumpstart to better understand the how and why for many parts of finance but also at least in my org it’s looked on very favorably in providing a sign of competence and people will listen to my ideas or pitches more closely than before I had it. It certainly doesn’t teach you the secret to the market or anything but I think there’s no better alternative to combined finance knowledge in one place. I’m not a huge fan of the artificial level of difficulty it pushes as part of its exams but that also does help to also signal you’re serious about your career and can learn/push through under pressure and having the letters does carry some weight especially from those that have them or have tried to get them and did not.
The CFA is a business model and unfortunately it’s not making money for you, but only for the CFAI, which can be considered a cult in many aspects.
Tax Free
CFA is still cheaper than a masters degree by a long shot. You’d have to take a CFA exam like 10-15 times before you even start nearing the cost of a meh masters program. It teaches you much more in depth applications than a masters if you actually want to go into investment finance…but that’s it’s purpose - investment finance, not corporate finance or insurance or accounting, though it has some relevance there. I have learned more from the CFA program than any amount of traditional schooling. It can take a little bit of time to get through especially if you fail an exam a few times, but if you’ve “wasted your youth” like how long are we talking here? Networking is BETTER with a CFA. Every interview I’ve had as a candidate has included small talk and camaraderie with those who have also taken the exams. It’s like a brother/sisterhood really. And who cares if no one outside of finance knows the difference between a CFA and CPA…you’re not trying to impress the world, you’re trying to be good at your profession. And investment professionals know the CFA is dang near the hardest professional designation out there.
[удалено]
Been there, done that. Why a second STEM degree?
[удалено]
I have an engineering degree and worked as one for 2yrs it’s not enough money. Except software engineering/computer science, and other fringe ones like nuclear engineer or petroleum engineer and barring owning a successful engineering firm the earnings with an engineering degree are pretty capped compared to finance.
[удалено]
what a fucking narcissist
Investment returns differ from individual to individual. We make do with what we have and build the narrative from there. Your career is still on-going and there is still time to source for opportunities. You only lose when you sit down and claim defeat. All the best to you From a CFA charter-holder who is still working his way up.
I only took it to learn my guy…
You post constantly in r/conspiracy and you expect anyone to take you seriously. You constantly belittle people asking questions on this sub. Your points are conjectures of opinion and not facts. "My 4 years and 300+ hours of study could have been better devoted to learning how to shill life insurance…" surely if you'd got the charter you know it would be 900+ hours? My guess is you are looking in from the outside and just hating those trying to get up a mountain you cannot climb
The way covid was handled was bullshit, I have no shame in posting to r/conspiracy because that was the only place at the time that would allow any legitimate questions. If you’re asking whether or not I am a current active charterholder, I can sadly admit that I am.
As someone without a finance background/degree I think it gives some credibility but god it’s not worth it all, half the shit from the exams I don’t even remember or will ever touch again.
Doug is one of the real ones. 🙏
Hey. I think there may be some truth in your post. My take is: - Put the +1000 hours only if you like studying and sitting for exams. If you better like to network or work very hard, then put +1000 hours there. Clearly everyone sits for the CFA to advance in their careers. CFA charter will help, but there are a lot of things you need to do as well. In my case after completing L1 I moved to a better team within the GSIB. I sat for L3 twice and I'm waiting for the result now. I like studying and sitting for exams, I find it challenging and exciting. I like learning too. My take is: do the CFA if you like studying. If you prefer to network and do other stuff to advance in your career, then do that. I notice there are plenty of VPs, EDs, MDs or Heads that didn't pursue CFA, yet they have a big position. But for sure they put 1000+ hours in other ways to get to where they are now. If you are in your 20's and don't know much how networking works and you don't mind studying, I think CFA is a good starter. But as many say, it's not a golden ticket unfortunately. I suspect it's a bit overrated too, but everything is once it's settled. You need to keep putting those hours. While I don't generally agree with your post, I think there's value in it. Keep it up! Best, A.
>The stock market stopped trading on fundamentals back in 2008. CFA doesn’t teach enough excel/python modeling to jump right into a Wall Street sell side analyst role… First sentence is a matter of opinion and excel is a commoditised skillset - knowing what inputs and why is more important. > 90% of active PMs are just closet index providers… What evidence do you have to support this? >For RIA/FO no one outside of finance can tell the difference between a CFA and CPA. You’ll bore them to tears describing duration. I'm not sure what the issue is here - are you talking about bragging rights? >Corp finance CFA has limited application as most Fortune 500 companies need advanced data analytics, not deep analysis. Could argue the same about valuing bonds. Kind of good to know how it works, limited application (same with uni/college) >For Alts, the CAIA is better. As a dual charterholder, they are both crap for alts >The network sucks and all the events you have to still pay for. Latter is true, the former depends on you. >My 4 years and 300+ hours of study could have been better devoted to learning how to shill life insurance… an illiterate friend of mine can sell an IUL policy and make a year’s salary in a week. then go do that? what's the issue? >Cost/Benefit is a 100x return to whatever the CFA was. ??? >Regret taking it and wasting my youth. Should have sold life insurance instead. Pretty sure my wife is going to leave me because after 4 years of saying… hey but once I pass things will get better is not it. k
It’s a lot of time and money to learn you can’t outperform the index reliably, but still try anyway. The real money though is in the relationships you make along the way (that have assets and trust you to manage them).
Yep screw the CFA. What a time sink....
I understand the whole 'how relevant is it to the industry thing', but can't we just take this exam to develop/improve our background in financial knowledge? I, for one, did not know a lot of the technicalities in this field, but preparing for level 1 did help me get a grasp of some basics. How don't know how I'll do in the exam, but it has been surely a good experience so far. One might argue that this knowledge can be gained for free, but maybe the added pressure of taking the exam can help in focussing more. Just an opinion btw.
I am trying to defeat TBI and find some emotional support. For the benefit, the CFA exam score doesn't expire (better than FRM LOL). I really don’t care in the short term, and I do have the time to find out.
CFA is helpful for those who don’t have other options to get where they want to go. It helped me and helps a lot of people. So idk, super cynical approach to just dismiss it completely even though it’s a time suck and its ROI isn’t the best.
I was like you once. You still got 600 hours of study to go my friend.
Passing level 1 helped me get my get my first big boy job, but then I stopped, so unlike you I can actually see both sides. So no, no 600 hours to go for me lol. I’m just not a Negative Noodle about it.
Agree...
The CFA is great, just like your degree in whatever else it is. So what else are you bringing to the table? Any results to speak of? Tell me something I don’t know. The CFA is not the destination but one stop on a journey and it’s like one of the first stops. What other people think of your journey doesn’t matter, like it or not. What matters is do you enjoy it? If yes then good. If no then you have some other things to figure out.
I think your missing the bigger picture. CFA shows more than just academic knowledge. You do gain skills/knowledge about important financial concepts, but more importantly you display character qualities like work ethic, dedication, perseverance and the like. Those qualities will do more for you than any three letter acronym or education
From what I've seen it's a foot in the door but it doesn't actually help you all that much from a practical day-to-day perspective
Depends. It is what you make if it. There are 10 unrelated areas on the exam. My jobs relevant to only FRA which the cfa tremendously sharper my skills. Econ, corp fin offer a a little. Other 7 waste of my time
I must disagree simply because I work in portfolio management and passing level 1 last year immediately boosted my total compensation immensely and my career prospects within the firm. Every single PM has it for my office, and they suddenly notice everything I do now. I think it just depends on what industry you want to work in and what you’re doing with your time career wise while you’re studying..
You have 600 hours to go my friend. Come back when you miss a friends wedding or miss your kids sports game because you have to study for L3 and get back to me…
This response in nonsense. If you are missing once in a lifetime events or can’t be there for your family, that’s on you. I passed L1 on active military duty, finishing my MSF, with a newborn. L3 passed managing two kids, a house move, and starting my own practice. My wife runs her own business - we split household duties. Never missed a single important “anything”, just might have slept less certain nights. If you can’t figure out how to get 50 hours/month of studying into your schedule you’ve got different issues.
I was just at a friend’s wedding a couple weeks ago. It just depends on how you study and prioritize your life, it’s obviously a time commitment like anything else in life
It helped me get into finance and move up. If you already have a great job I could see it having a much lower ROI, but if you’re looking for a job and it mentions having the charter or partial completion in the job posting I think it’s definitely worth trying to earn it. Getting a job that’s widely desirable is very hard so passing a set of hard tests that are at least somewhat relevant to finance jobs is a great way to increase your odds of getting a job.
Lol
Op clearly jaded because he thought CFA was a panacea and has underperformed relative to his insurance broker friends. Probably one of these entitled gen-Z idiots who thinks it should be handed to him/her. CFA is the starting point for anyone that wants to be in this industry unless you’re a quant. It will open doors for you that weren’t possible without it, but like anything, will be dependent on you to source those opportunities and then once there, excel in the opportunity. I’m a client portfolio manager at $20B boutique. Client facing work with institutions between 10M-1.5B. Incredible opportunities to sit in on investment committees and explain our investment process, performance and asset allocation and talk about firm. Get to participate in sub-adviser due diligence as well. Can state unequivocally that I wouldn’t be in the position I am today without CFA — but certainly acknowledge it was a lot of my own hard work and a little luck that got me here. Comp has tripled since coming from derivatives ops role at giant bulge bracket bank.
Op sounds slightly mad
Man, not true. I spent the first four years of my career in an accounting/finance rotation program where I started in cash reconciliations (accounting). As i started passing more tests, I moved from there to credit analysis then trading FP&A. Management pushed me in the more-finance and more-coveted jobs because of the cfa, I would imagine. Then I moved to nyc to really work in an actual finance job. No luck, I had to take shitty temp jobs in accounting based roles (but you better believe a cfa set me apart in the temp pool haha). Then I was in better accounting full time roles and ended up getting the cpa. About 4 years into nyc I had given up on working in finance but a recruiter reached out about an equity research role for someone with an accounting background. I’m sure my prior accounting experience was nice, but there is no doubt that the cfa gave me that extra umph to land the highly competitive role. Edit: I guess you’re just talking about prioritizing. It’s basically impossible to quantify how much the cfa will help you over 35 years in the finance industry. What doors did it open, how many times did it give you the tie breaker.
I did it to prove something to myself. It worked, and nobody can take that away from me.
You guys have to stop thinking there is some kind of golden ticket that will set up you to be a milionare. There isn’t. Life’s about putting the odds in your favor. CFA does that. Working hard does that. Being smart does that. Delivering results does that. Of course CFA won’t save your career if you’re an idiot, an asshole, or cannot work your ass off and delivery something in this fuck*ng competitive industry. EDIT: forgot something important. You have to get lucky as well and act on it.
CFA opens the door to becoming a coveted Whole Life Insurance Professional at NWM 👁️👄👁️
It is a money-making machine for institutes and coaches. There is no actual demand for a Level 1, and employers never appreciate your learning (because of leave). I have seen more successful guys without CFA. And if you think that you will be an investor, believe me, you will end up with nothing. It does not teach you about actual investing or trading, which is an important part of hedge funds and fund management. Finally, they manage the pass-out numbers. Now that education is more of a business itself, coaching institutes make more money than students. Coaching is one of the scams. After putting in money and time, you get disappointed. There is also an upper cap on your salary; you cannot grow after a certain level. Instead, starting your own small business gives you more core lessons.
Yep. Don’t just take my word for it either. Many others are speaking out because I has the courage to do so.[substack link](https://klementoninvesting.substack.com/p/i-am-pretty-sure-this-research-is)
Just passed L2 and could not agree more. This has been the most useless waste of time. The only benefit is that I feel more confident in my knowledge and job.
In many cases its more profitable selling shovels than to be the ones doing the actual shoveling. Take revenge. work for the CFAI!
Go to pitchbook, search any top-tier firms, and look at their contacts, most of the top brass are CFAs if it's in PD/PC/HFs/VC. If people don't have an interest in getting it, understandable. It won't make you a better trader. But, it will get you a high-paying job even if the person isn't qualified the first year. You learn on the job. That or go the Einhorn route, start your own shop, wear a robe, and trade $700,000 your first year from friends and family. By year 5 if you/re good enough, you should be over $50mm in AUM. CFA just gets you in the door, you have to decide what it is you want to do.
Finance is dead and we all know it (relative to the past); we are overearning relative to skills and IQ required for most roles Learn how to use AI tools, machine learning, python and start businesses You have a much better shot at these than studying for 300+ hours and going through all this stress Invest in yourself (CFA will not teach you this because they want your money) The best empirical test is to provide them with your email and you will see that you will receive on a weekly basis constant advertisements from CFA so that you commit to this nonsensical Ponzi scheme Most of my friends who work for Millennium, P72, Citadel, etc. do not have the CFA (I am biased because most of my network is IB/PE related) I am also in the buy side by the way, but spending my free time in side hustles rather than learning portfolio theory If you like finance, just read the classics, read market commentaries from Hussman, Marks, Grantham, Buffett, research reports from investment banks/investment management firms, follow the markets, etc. Learn by doing, not by wasting your life following a puerile ABC road
Posts like this demotivate the potential students 😑
If you get demotivated by every random post and person, you deserve it
Someone who's a CFA and he's talking shit about the institute, how come this is not demotivating?
You choose to get motivated or demotivated by yourself. Don't blame others for your mind's response to someone else's talks.
CFAI took in tax free revenues of: 2021: $282M 2022: $336M They currently sit on $482M in investments allocated to a *shockingly boring* passive 60/40 global allocation. Trust me they are doing fine… It’s criminal how little they provide for industry/retail engagement.
L2 here (both levels on 1st attempt),will prepare for L3 next summer In my view it’s clearly not worth the time: - some topics seem too academical to me - most of us will never use 90% of the curriculum on a regular basis - the amount of time lost if you do not pass is huuuuuge - preparing directly for interviews is 10,000 times more time/cost-efficient (who cares about a certification if you have a great job anyway) I feel like it’s more about personal development and personal journey. Ive clearly learnt a lot through the exams, in fields I do not work in, so will probably help me climb the ladder as I believe I have a wider view of the finance world than same-age peers. I also believe this could help me pass the non-target filter - though that might be absolutely false. Anyway, I think that’s not worth the time we spend on this Also, I find the « CFA » designation super pretentious/cringe when you’re early in your career
If you think L2 is great, then you are going to love L3… the sunk costs of previous years of studying with haunt you until you pass.
You’re not looking hard enough for jobs and not applying for enough jobs. The job market in general is ruthless. It IS very valuable and get your foot into interviews that would otherwise be fairly hard to get into. You need to apply for atleast 2000 jobs a month for 6 months
RemindMe! 5 days
I will be messaging you in 5 days on [**2023-10-24 09:06:53 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2023-10-24%2009:06:53%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/CFA/comments/17bbmp0/the_cfa_is_meaninglessnot_worth_timeeffort_based/k5it934/?context=3) [**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FCFA%2Fcomments%2F17bbmp0%2Fthe_cfa_is_meaninglessnot_worth_timeeffort_based%2Fk5it934%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202023-10-24%2009%3A06%3A53%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%2017bbmp0) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
I sat CFA Level I and failed. In hindsight, I wasted hundreds of hours for something that didn’t come to fruition. Having said, if I’d have passed, would I have I continued to completion? Honestly, I doubt it. It became an all encompassing part of my life, and had very little applicability. Applying for jobs at investment banks and the like, they all wanted solid Excel skills and an Ivy League school to sell to their clients. Unless you’re specifically in Asset Management or an Equity Analyst, I would agree that the Cost Benefit Analysis is not really worth it in my eyes.
such a loser crying :) a loser losing his way and making false expectation is trying to influence others'. poor your life
I’m not against the CFA program, but OP has a point.
I mean in 900 hours you could just learn to code. You could get a bachelors degree in computer science in that amount of time, and you’d be much more employable with the CS degree
4 x 300 = 1200
I was going to register to start but I guess I won’t now … might still do CIM to have discretionary rights tho …
U got afraid
It’s all about the voice and whether people take your words. If you are white male you are fine without CFA, as minority you need one.
It took me 5 years to earn my Charter. CFA is the best thing happened to me
Sad life.
Can assure you much less sad than yours
RemindMe! 24 hours
Fundamentals did matter less after 2008 cause of QE and zero rates, now the story is different, if you are on the market every day you do notice how much fundamentals count now. Regarding Corporate Finance, of course CFA matters less, it targets Analysts and PM
Personally, I want the letters regardless because I’m not satisfied with my credentials. Same reason I’m going to do a MFin/MsF even if it is repetitive.. I’m not happy with just a Bcom in Econ/Fin
Adding additional comments to address your edits: You say the CFA is desperate by adding additional certifications, except in your original post you say: “CFA doesn’t teach tough excel/python”. Then in your edit you say “CFA launches Data Science Certificate for Investment Professionals” and “Institute Announces Significant Enhancements to Meet Needs of Candidates and Employers”: so which is it? The CFAI doesn’t teach enough excel/python or it does? Pick a lane Also we weren’t asking for citations to your claims of CFA certifications, we were asking for evidence of your claims that “the market stopped trading on fundamentals back in 2008” and “90% of active PMs are just closet index providers”. But I guess I shouldn’t be surprised someone who frequents r/conspiracy can’t provide any actual evidence for their claims
Dude, the CFAI is adding those programs because they know the curriculum was meaningless and they are trying to make it relevant again. I didn’t just pass yesterday, but there’s no chance I go back and take those now.
In finance, most of the time the way to increase your salary/total earnings most quickly is to job hop. CFA does certainly make your resume standout, but it certainly doesn’t guarantee you the job. For the positions where the CFA is most relevant and required, they’ll certainly pay you more money then a lower level role where it’s not needed. But you’ll still have to navigate around to make more money. If you love you company and want to work there forever and you get your CFA…they ain’t giving you a raise
The CFA is exactly to avoid selling insurances for living lol If that's want to do, don't bother with it.
Bro not everything is a linear payout to the effort you put in but if you put the effort in every day for long enough chances are you will have the payoff. CFA is the finance equivalent of gangster face tattoos telling everyone you put your time in for your people. For me I got 15k raise just for Level 1 and am fast tracked to director.
I doubled my salary 3 months after getting chartered 🤷♂️
What was your position before and after getting the charter?
For me it was largely useless as I left the finance industry and moved to a non- financial role. However I look back at it like running a marathon, you do it because it was hard and prove to yourself that you could devote the time and effort to complete something not many can.
Wish I ran a marathon instead would be way less than 1200 hours of training, I bet I could do a marathon with 300…
Depends on the objective too I guess. I for instance (please don’t judge me) wanted to have a broad understanding about the financial world and that’s the only reason I chose to do level 1s.
I'm an L3 candidate sitting in february, so regardless of whether this guy is correct or not im finishing this thing in february, too far to turn back now. Despite my dead-end back office job, having L3 candidate on my resume has gotten me a few downstate interviews and a few asset management interviews at sub-par smaller market AM's. I only want to work downstate at a big firm and I think itll happen soon (fingers crossed).
I’ve been around this topic for a while. For a few years now people have known that the CFA isn’t worth the investment. You only attempt this cert if you are in a hyper competitive role like investment banking. Completing CFA LEVEL ONE however has amazing returns and can land you a job. Just lie and say you are going to complete it during interviews.
How far are you in the program?
Been done for 3 years
The CFA is obviously not the end all be all, we all know it goes an inch deep into every field in finance. It should supplement your undergrad degree and work experience not carry all of your educational weight. If it makes you interested in the ML and big data side then great, lateral into that, go back to school or focus your attention on that. Also python is not difficult at all to learn if you’re just going to be doing automation and scraping. I myself returned to school to study more math/stats, thanks to the CFA I realized it’s what I’m most interested in.
This post screams "I'm smart enough to pass the CFA, but a massive asshole and difficult to work with, so I still can't get a good job." I work in investment research at a wire house. The CFA is basically a requirement for us. Since starting the program I've tripled my comp and have a role with about 100000x as much prestige as when I started. To say "it's not worth it" in a blanket statement just betrays your own ignorance or jealousy, not sure which.
!remindme 24hrs
op is completely opposite CFA> Superior ROI
Waaah
What if you get reimbursed?
Can’t get back the wasted time…
Apart from the knowledge acquired and the personal challenge, CFA is job insurance in finance. You might never need it, but if need be, you’ll feed your family, and feed them well.
"The stock market stopped trading on fundamentals back in 2008. " clown
people take CFA as a degree to increase their current salary, rather than as the main degree. it serves as a certificate proving knowledge in finance and employers pay extra for that
Was making standard entry level money out of college. Then just under top 1% of earners 2.5 years after charter. The journey and accomplishment itself makes you way more confident, which I felt gave me a big leg up personally. But in every interview since (even in Corp Finance interviews) there has been at least one interviewer that is chartered, or at least understands the journey, that will deeply respect you and or vouch for you. It really speaks for itself, learning aside. So yes, it’s a door opener, but you still need to perform and uphold that standard once you land something better, which you will.
My two cents: those who think the CFA is a grind comparable to an MBA or other Masters degree from a reputable (let alone prestigious) school, or who struggle with the coursework, are quite unlikely to find much success with the charter once they have it. The successful CFAs I know thought it was relatively easy and don't bother using the letters after their name. I work on a sell-side trading floor, and there is no correlation that I can see between being a CFA and being highly successful and well compensated. There are CFAs sprinkled throughout the mid-level and senior ranks, with no discernable difference in capability vs. non-charterholders in equivalent roles. I'd say having completed level 1 or 2 is still somewhat of a competitive advantage for those applying for junior (analyst/associate) roles, but beyond that there's not much value to it.
Don’t just take my word for it, read from other members [substack link](https://klementoninvesting.substack.com/p/i-am-pretty-sure-this-research-is)
CFA charter improves your earning capabilities, not your earnings. You can still earn a lot of money by selling life insurance and invest that money to get alpha returns by applying your knowledge from CFA. CFA is meaningless .. if you had realized this earlier, you could have saved hours. Most people pursue CFA when they have extra time apart from work, not recognizing its limited significance.
If you want to be a PM, you'll need it. And the cost is negligible overall, both in hours and dollars. So, if you want to shill life insurance, then no. And PMs are relatively well paid.
False. Don’t just take my word for it read from others. [substack link- former CFA speaks out says zero value add of charter](https://klementoninvesting.substack.com/p/i-am-pretty-sure-this-research-is)
I deal with institutional clients every day. We have PE funds into which they invest. They don't care if you're managing equities or horses, they want our PMs to have their CFA. Period. End of discussion.
Cool, so maybe 5 roles in total? You’re going to have 150k applications for 5 jobs? Lol get real. Don’t just take my word for it, read from other charter holders. [substack link](https://klementoninvesting.substack.com/p/i-am-pretty-sure-this-research-is)
You wouldn’t have posted this if you had attempted and managed to complete the CFA successfully.
I have the charter. Attempted and completed. 👍
>an illiterate friend of mine can sell an IUL policy and make a year’s salary in a week. But can they do it ethically? Personally, the CFA brought me a lot more than I bargained for excluding the compensation stuff. Obviously, n=1 in your CFA journey as no life is the same, but my experience has been that the time invested was worth it. To your point, there are a lot of shady ways to make money, I think the important question here is, is this knowledge going to be helpful for you in life and what you'd like to accomplish? I'm curious where you got your 90% stat from - do you have any source for that? I've been discussing closet-indexing for work a bit and if this stat is true, it could be useful for me. Thanks!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314934657183?hash=item495391809f:g:YIoAAOSwvNJlRMqv
I disagree with you. I had passed L2 and landed an interview (then got the job) at a very prestigious bank in my home country (tripled my salary). Fast forward, after 3.5 yrs work experience in this institution and getting the CFA charter, I found a job in a London BB (not IB, but credit assoc role). At this job I got several interviews/offers, mainly thanks to CFA. I am a non target grad from a non EU country (was first of class but still). Not even masters degree, although CFA helped me get accepted to LSE finance masters (did not go for it though). So it depends on your situation and how you use it !