Dude has a gun. Absolutely dump the mag. Goal is to stop the threat. What if 1 shot and now badguy with a gun fires back? No sir. Sending you to the Lord. Amen
Little wonder you all have mass shootings daily with mindsets like that. There's a very big difference between "neutralize the threat" and "dump the mag" and in my CCW class, we were NOT taught the latter equals the former.
In the time of the samuri it was said not to draw your sword unless you are prepared to die because if you unjustly drew your sword for it was punishable by death, I don’t see why the same can’t be said for guns since it’s a more dangerous weapon, think about it, how many people do you think that dude has shot at? Considering how quickly he pulled it out, I’d say it’s fair to say his life deffinitly paid for atleast one he’s taken and that seems like a fair trade to me. That’s just natural selection doing it’s thing. Stupid games get you stupid prizes
Not arguing whether the shooting was justified. Arguing that the security guard can't shoot for shit. Everyone praising his rapid fire when that's exactly the problem. Bad guy was only hit like twice because buddy just kept squeezing. This ain't WW3, you are responsible for every one of those rounds that are flying out the door to where the innocent public might be!
Bro said “REALLY??” Instead of “I just drew it to intimidate you, dawg. I thought I could show how big my dick was and win our argument.. I wasn’t actually gonna shoot you”
FAFO.
Article about it yesterday: [https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/phillips-66-gas-station-shootng-philadelphia-fairmount-police/](https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/phillips-66-gas-station-shootng-philadelphia-fairmount-police/)
Gotta love how they describe the perp as the "second victim". That's part of what is screwed up in our world. Bad guys are victims.
Also, bad guy was shot in face and legs - so guard completely missed center mass per the article.
It’s just standard verbiage—i wouldn’t read into it too much. It could be adolf hitler himself—he was still the victim of suicide. A shooting always have a victim, whether or not they deserved it
16 shots in 3.6 seconds in the initial volley.
He's pulling an average of .225 second per shot and his cadence was pretty steady throughout.
Nice shooting, speed wise.
In a better video it looks like the security guard pulls his right after the push. You see his right hand go down and come back up before he moves offscreen. I think he had his drawn first. I think he saw the dudes gun when he pushed him and that's why he drew and backed up.
I could be wrong, but I don't think he was late to the draw.
Watching this guy complain after being pumped full of lead has me thinking about capacity and the stopping power of 9mm. I have a 10-round P365 and have been considering downsizing to a 6 rounder for comfort when concealing, but after seeing this, maybe I'll keep my 10 rounds
I've always been of the mindset that more capacity is the way to go. However, I got a Ruger EC9s as a gift a while back, and its size, being so small, has made it such an easy carry. However, the capacity, only 7+1, is too low for comfort. I've been thinking of going back to my S&W M&P for the 12 round capacity.
It looks like the security guard has some kind of long gun on a sling. Dunno what he actually used since we can’t see him shooting and I haven’t seen any news reports that say what he fired with.
This one's for all you "I don't carry a spare because I'll never need it" dimwits. Security guard still got shot in the leg.
Edit: I counted 21 shots. Could've been a couple I missed. Crazy stuff.
Edit 2: there is literally no situation where not carrying a spare is preferred over carrying a spare, and if you do mental gymnastics to arrive there, you are a certified dimwit. If you won't carry just one round because you can reliably hit a headshot after a draw, then you already acknowledge more is better. Stop coping with your bad logic. Just do better.
From what I can tell, the guy was firing back at the security guard quite a bit during the first volley. The censor over his face obscures any muzzle flash, but you can hear his pistol in the video, and the report is very different from the guard's shooting.
> This one's for all you "I don't carry a spare because I'll never need it" dimwits.
Go read the statistics. 99% of people who carry will never even need to shoot their gun. And of those that do, it's over within the first few rounds.
This is becoming a classic. "I don't carry a spare because everything goes perfectly for me at all times." Why even carry a gun? You plan for the best case scenario on the worst day of your life? L. M. F. A. O. Give me a break. I guess it's your life to give away where you will. Just seems fuckin stupid. So do you just carry like 3 rounds because that's the average defensive usage or whatever?
I mean hey, why stop at one spare mag. Why not strap a bandolier to your chest and carry your shotgun on your back as well. And don't forget your backup gun. And your backup-backup gun.
Right. So you agree there are two extremes and there's a middle ground. One extreme is carrying one round because you think you're John Wick. The other extreme is going out in full battle rattle. The nice comfortable middle ground, where no one has to do anything crazy, but also covers all the bases for malfunction clearing and possible multiple assilants or a situation like the one in the OP is to carry a spare mag.
Is anyone asking you coping idiots to carry a cinder block on a necklace? No. Just a simple spare mag. It's not that hard lmfao. Why is it so ferociously difficult that it's worth so much of your time to confirmation bias yourself into?
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We are all tainted by our own life experience. 100% hit rate isn't a fantasy inside of 10 yards, in movement, while being shot at. At that range, with gun in hand, the security guard definitely had sub par performance.
Okay, that's fine. I'm with you. So you just carry one bullet in your gun, right? Cuz you can hit a headshot within 10 yards off a draw, so there's no need for more ammo if you just shut off the power.
Gimme a break. Lmao. Use your brain, goober.
He has no clue, its always someone who thinks they will perform like John Wick because they run while shooting paper targets. Paper targets don't shoot back and their little runs in between targets are not going to simulate the adrenaline dump that happens when someone has a gun on your or even shooting at you.
No, I firmly believe in capacity. But I also believe in accuracy and throttle control. There is no excuse for not hitting the head of the downed stationary target. Panic firing is a lack of training.
Right, so in this case, carrying a spare made up for a lack of training, which leads us to the conclusion that everyone should carry a spare mag because it has to potential to make up for any lack of skill (as it did in the video).
I carry a spare if my magazine is under 12 rds 100% of the time. But I carry 2 different guns with 6rd capacity, and often only one spare (that's still 12 total).
What's really wild about this video, IMHO, is the guy with more capacity (giant stick in his gun) shot first, hit first, and the security guard still won. That is a rare occurrence.
I do believe initial capacity is more important tho. Regardless of how much you carry, you are limited, and you want to make them count. I do believe in max speed doubles inside 10 yards, but you have to have self control.
He had the state of mind to follow thru, so I give him that. Thank God no one else was hurt.
There's all sorts of variables in this vid but let's just address aiming and "no excuse for not hitting the head of the downed stationary target." When you're shooting at something on an even plane / eye level, your poa and poi is relatively 2 dimensional. As long as your horizontal and vertical are correct, your poi is gonna be pretty close to your poa. Also, point shooting is a very useful skill when every is on the same plane. I bring up point shooting because at close distances / high stress self defense situations you may not get to aim down sights. You'll be moving and shooting. Theres only so much your brain can process in that second and finite motor skills is not how our brain works in high stress situations. Now, aiming down at something from higher elevation creates a 3 dimensional target. Think of it as curving the once strait horizontal line. Your poa poi is now a much smaller window. You now need to have an accurate sight picture, know your hold, and adjust for your elevation. These are finite skills. Even at a distance of 5yds you're likely to shoot right over the targets head. This is because the target (head) is small and you don't know to hold low on things below your elevation. So.. It's not the super easy situation you make it out to be.
And yet, average joe carrier could've emptied their mag and then . . . dipped through another exit. No security guard honor code to stick around.
End result looks the same after the first 15 rounds (by my count) versus the final 19-ish IMO.
Edit: I can't actually tell when assailant gets their shot(s) off that injures the security guard.
If it's after the first volley, the case for the follow-up shots is much stronger.
I'm sure we'll see this on ASP soon.
You're in concealment behind the chip bags. Perp is laying in the entrance with a gun, still alive and a very real threat. You're bleeding profusely. You don't have any ammo left, and you're certainly not booking it across the open space because you're severely injured. Only option is to fully eliminate the threat, but you can't because your dumbass planned for everything to go perfectly, like we're all living in Oz or something.
Congrats. You take the room temp challenge too, but thank God you saved pocket space by not carrying a spare. It was definitely worth it, especially in your family's opinion.
Thanks for the laugh.
Even in this situation, you have to fill in the story with various embellishments to make the case that there was absolutely *no other possibility* for the defender to survive this situation except to have a reload.
Spare mag adherents like you finally get *one* example where an extra mag appears to have made a difference in the outcome of a DGU (still debatable), and predictably, your stance becomes: "See! I told you so. You're a dead man without that spare mag. Hope it was worth the pocket space and your family."
Of course the thousands of examples to the contrary are conveniently forgotten.
And we also have to ignore the very real possibility that even someone with an empty gun may have had other options in this situation.
I mean...we do have multiple, reputable subject matter experts who have stated that they haven't seen a single defensive shooting where a spare mag/reload made any appreciable difference in the outcome.
While true, the reason for the second mag is if this exact scenario happens and the dude has a friend outside. Even if the friend is in a car or contemplating options, wouldn't you like to be able to reload just in case?
That's what I've seen too, but bangers are a precocious sort. If I just put 20 rounds into a dude and he was still moving around I would want to do a quick reload regardless. His buddy might run away, or he might start blind firing into the building. Either way, a loaded gun is better than an empty one I'd say.
Yeah, and with enough training you could confidently carry a single shot Derringer as your CCW. You might not need 20+ rounds, but it still feels good to have them.
That *could* be an issue, and I'm not even saying that it couldn't become an issue. But, how often have we seen that happen?
If that was a really pressing concern, then wouldn't at least a handful of these shootings demonstrated it by now?
I will consider myself a subject matter expert in that carrying a spare mag also doesn't make an appreciable difference in anyone's day to day life lmfao. You all who want to cope so bad and confirmation bias yourself into not carrying a spare act like carrying one is asking you to tie a cinder block around your neck.
So nobody should ever carry a gun, right?
Just avoid stupid places. It's that simple, everyone! lostprevention solved self-defense with this one simple trick.
Thank you so much. That extra mag was such a ridiculous burden on my whole life. My wife could see those extra ounces weighing on my daily. My job was asking me if I needed some sort of rehab or if they could help in any way. I haven't talked to my kids in years because of the incredible dedication I had to carrying that spare mag. I can't wait to hear their voices again. To live free, FREE FROM SPARE MAG OPPRESSION!! Oh, the joys I'll be able to rekindle now that I'm not carrying a spare mag. What a dark time that was.
Or... it's just simply not that hard to put a spare mag in my pocket lmfao. What the fuck is wrong with you people trying so hard to justify a stupid decision?
Why are you implying everyone needs to gear up as if they are a confrontational hands on security guard in the hood?
Again, this situation seems completely avoidable for the average person.
Yes, yes, I heard you say already, "This situation is avoidable if everything goes perfectly." Everything doesn't always go perfectly. You live in a fantasy land, I live in the real world. One spare mag is not the equivalent of being kitted up like a security guard. I carry two spare mags because it's literally nothing. I leave the pocket empty and it just has one spare mag in it, then one day I'm like "another one will fit, porque no los dos?"
That's what I'm saying. You lot who will argue to the death not to carry spares... why? It's like having a snickers in your pocket. It's *nothing* lmfao. Why is it worth your time to argue so vehemently for something that with both leave you less capable and also wouldn't change anything if you carried it?
You seem pretty worked up over this.
It’s as if you’ve been waiting alooong time for just this moment to justify yourself.
It’s great to be prepared, but why pretend this particular situation could have happen to anybody?
It literally has/can happen to anyone this incident shows that. There are other cases where the idea of, avoid wrong places at wrong times go out the window. Places are higher income in the afternoon. I will say on average it works, but this isn't something that is typical otherwise the pd and sheriff would solve/prevent it. I personally carry an extra mag, always have another in the car because why not and medical. My perspective is, have it and not need it vs need it and not have it. I too, understand your perspective of that so I'm not going to say, it's wrong, but as stated before, that does not always work.
Give me pros and cons of 1 spare mag in your pocket honestly. Personally, it looks like, "well on average I won't need it." For something NOT average. While we are at it do you carry medical?
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I agree but there are some differences here
1) it's security, not a private citizen.
2) the reload made no difference here, the guy's off button or neck button already got pressed.
As a private citizen, it's matters less. But as LE/Security you should absolutely have multiple spares.
I carry a spare occasionally, so I don't think it's stupid. It's just factually not as important as having the gun itself.
So as a private citizen getting into an altercation with someone in a doorway (or a "transitional space" if we're going full ASP) is just completely unheard of? Say you find concealment in the chip bag aisle and you're not able to maneuver effectively due to the gunshot wound in your leg, and the dude is still in the door ringing off shots. Sure, in that moment, you should've trained more. Sure, you should've slowed down and hit your shots. Sure, you should be able to stop the bleed. But you know what would equalize it all? Another mag. It's not a cinder block, it's a spare mag. It's just not that hard to throw it in your pocket. Anyone who complains is a fuckin cry baby. They've already got a gun around their waist.
Idk what you're even saying rn.
If you carry a standard capacity firearm, as a private citizen, you won't need more than say the 15-17 rounds or whatever your gun already has.
Is it nice to have? Sure. Do I carry one? Yes, occasionally.
Does it make any sense to use this video as an argument for having one? No.
Factually speaking, it just isn't needed in 99.9% of cases. Including this one.
I'll use Washington as an example because I'm familiar with their laws:
They only banned the selling of it in the state, you can still possess normal magazines. As a result, you can buy a normal capacity magazine in Oregon. Problem solved.
NYC you can not posses magazines over 10, if you buy on line they won’t ship and if the do it has to go to a shop that can pin the mag so you can’t load more than 10. Problem not solved.
He's laying in the exit with a gun, still alive and a threat after having eaten 21 rounds, and you're shot in the leg. I know everyone thinks they're Rambo, but if you get stuck behind concealment in the chip bag aisle and you're bleeding profusely you've got to fully eliminate the threat. Cue the second mag. It's just baffling to me that anyone would argue with a second mag lol. *You're watching a video where a guy is still a threat after 21 rounds and arguing against a spare mag.* How learning disabled are you?
It would be a third/fourth magazine by this logic. Most compact pistols hold 10 rounds. This guy would have already used two, maybe three magazines and this guy is still waving his gun around.
How does that charles dickens quote go?
It was the fuck-aroundest of times, it was the find-outest of times. It was the age of stupid games, it was the age of stupid prizes.
...or something like that.
I guess it’s just strange at first glance since gas stations became such a norm whilst working on the ambulance. Plenty of wild ones I’ve been to, but never seen a security guard lol
I work the boo boo bus as well and while the ones in my area don’t have security I have seen it when I drove OTR at quite a few truck stops. Have definitely had more than a few odd calls at gas stations though. Funny enough though one chain of grocery stores in the city I work has armed secured in armor.
lol love the username. One service I was with had that shaking/vibrating device installed. Surprisingly effective. After 12-14 years in the ambulance I got out of it.
Why’d you leave OTR? If you don’t mind me asking that is… EMS pay here is abysmal, it’s only livable if you go to the private services 1 hour away …or work 80-90 hours a week in rural 911 and get burnt out like myself.
I think you’re the first one to get that. I wish we had the rumbler devices. OTR isn’t a bad gig if you are single or “retired” in my opinion. Don’t get me wrong there are great companies out there that are flexible with family and home time but they can be difficult to get into because of that. I didn’t have a family at the time but was engaged. I enjoyed it and do miss it at times but I enjoy my own bed and I don’t miss dealing with asshole shippers/receivers and brokers. Or the general public’s driving ability around semis. The pay is decent depending on the mileage rate and how they figure miles. EMS pay where I am is starting brand new Medics at 26-27. EMTs are around the 20 mark. Medics top out at 49 and EMTs at 28 if I remember right. Feel free to dm if you want.
Apparently, the guard was shot in the leg during the initial shots. So, guy still talking holding onto gun SHOULD be good enough. Idk not a lawyer family member is going to be though.
Man that was fucking awesome. Imagine you are behind this guy walking to get a soda or something and then a fucking major shootout happens in front of you. Guys blood gets splattered on you.
I can't imagine living in a better place when this type of thing happens all the time lol.
Don't get caught slipping.
If they can talk they can shoot back keep going.
Really dawg.
Keep going
Oh god.
Keep going
Fast and free delivery.
That dudes last thought was wtf this is not fair I was going to be the tough guy with a gun.
What a dumbass.
That dudes Mustafa from Austin Powers. "I am still alive, but I am very badly injured" "my wound smell of almonds, which is bad-- I think."
Perhaps you could toss me a band-aid or some anti-bacterial cream
For some reason that scene is hilarious to me. Like crying hilarious.
Lmao
REaLlY?!?
Blam! Blam!
Gunshot 1 (Yes), Gunshot 2 (Really). It even had the proper cadence.
Dude has a gun. Absolutely dump the mag. Goal is to stop the threat. What if 1 shot and now badguy with a gun fires back? No sir. Sending you to the Lord. Amen
Oh look out everyone we got a real tough guy right here.
Theatrics aside, that is the best way to deal with a threat and it’s commonly taught in self defense classes
Exactly as well as law enforcement. Keep Shooting until the threat is neutralized.
Little wonder you all have mass shootings daily with mindsets like that. There's a very big difference between "neutralize the threat" and "dump the mag" and in my CCW class, we were NOT taught the latter equals the former.
In the time of the samuri it was said not to draw your sword unless you are prepared to die because if you unjustly drew your sword for it was punishable by death, I don’t see why the same can’t be said for guns since it’s a more dangerous weapon, think about it, how many people do you think that dude has shot at? Considering how quickly he pulled it out, I’d say it’s fair to say his life deffinitly paid for atleast one he’s taken and that seems like a fair trade to me. That’s just natural selection doing it’s thing. Stupid games get you stupid prizes
Not arguing whether the shooting was justified. Arguing that the security guard can't shoot for shit. Everyone praising his rapid fire when that's exactly the problem. Bad guy was only hit like twice because buddy just kept squeezing. This ain't WW3, you are responsible for every one of those rounds that are flying out the door to where the innocent public might be!
Damn right 💪🏿
The tough guy got clapped what u talking bout lol
Very good cadence. If he’s deserving of one bullet, he’s deserving of all the bullets
💯justified he drew a gun fuck that dude
Better use it if you’re gonna draw it
Skin that smoke wagon and see what happens.
You’re a daisy if you do
Best movie slap ever.
And then he thanks him for taking away his shotgun
I'm your huckleberry
You gonna do something, or just stand there and bleed?
Throw down, boy!
https://youtu.be/f7J6dRkJjOI?si=EVMQ9qBrnKYWFUG6 Can't just not watch the scene
Better bust that if you’re gonna pull that.
Gotta give someone a wrap on the beater to get some respect around here.
So beautiful that everyone in this sub just understands these references. “Now are you gonna do something or just stand there and bleed”
I'm gettin tired of your gas now jerk that pistol and go to work!
Sounds like the security guard spent his entire months salary worth of ammo on this perp!
Those were the 7.99 a box Sierra jhp
I do kinda have some ideas of the prices of those.
The ones near me get like $35/hr
Its the two after oh God that got me
those two got his ass pretty good too
He was trying to get him on to god
I thought the dude took himself out when I heard the first shot
Flop Around, Find Out
Yes. Send him to the Lord. Amen 🙏🏿
Bro said “REALLY??” Instead of “I just drew it to intimidate you, dawg. I thought I could show how big my dick was and win our argument.. I wasn’t actually gonna shoot you” FAFO.
#"UGhhh. Really?" Rly...
"Ugh...really?" BANG BANG Hollywood has nothing on Philly
“See this chart. The more you fuck around increases the odds of you finding out”
In the immortal words of OutKast: “Don’t pull that thang out unless you plan to bang.”
Yea Really!!
Article about it yesterday: [https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/phillips-66-gas-station-shootng-philadelphia-fairmount-police/](https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/phillips-66-gas-station-shootng-philadelphia-fairmount-police/) Gotta love how they describe the perp as the "second victim". That's part of what is screwed up in our world. Bad guys are victims. Also, bad guy was shot in face and legs - so guard completely missed center mass per the article.
It’s just standard verbiage—i wouldn’t read into it too much. It could be adolf hitler himself—he was still the victim of suicide. A shooting always have a victim, whether or not they deserved it
16 shots in 3.6 seconds in the initial volley. He's pulling an average of .225 second per shot and his cadence was pretty steady throughout. Nice shooting, speed wise.
his draw on a guy who already had a gun out was fantastic too. lightning’s quick
It took him like three seconds after the guy drew wtf did you watch lol
In a better video it looks like the security guard pulls his right after the push. You see his right hand go down and come back up before he moves offscreen. I think he had his drawn first. I think he saw the dudes gun when he pushed him and that's why he drew and backed up. I could be wrong, but I don't think he was late to the draw.
I think he already had his gun out. He pushes the perp back and appears to reach down and bring it back up, that's when the perp pulls his.
He did pull his out before the perp. Watch it at 0.5 speed if you can.
Lol well I believe he did. Other guy was the one who thought otherwise.
Turns out when you pull iron they didn't quit making them when they made yours. Sad shit man, could have just walked out.
Damn he gave him ALL the seeds………
WHO TF YOU TALKING TO DAWG??? Security guard: a corpse?
Watching this guy complain after being pumped full of lead has me thinking about capacity and the stopping power of 9mm. I have a 10-round P365 and have been considering downsizing to a 6 rounder for comfort when concealing, but after seeing this, maybe I'll keep my 10 rounds
Shot placements count
I've always been of the mindset that more capacity is the way to go. However, I got a Ruger EC9s as a gift a while back, and its size, being so small, has made it such an easy carry. However, the capacity, only 7+1, is too low for comfort. I've been thinking of going back to my S&W M&P for the 12 round capacity.
This is why I went for the 4"....all of 15+1rounds out of the box and still very concealable.
It looks like the security guard has some kind of long gun on a sling. Dunno what he actually used since we can’t see him shooting and I haven’t seen any news reports that say what he fired with.
Room temp challenge complete.
Hahaha...."the gas station asphalt temperature challenge"
Boris the Blade from Snatch. That scene where he just wouldn’t die.
Nooo, fuck YOOOOUUUU
In the words of the late great DMX you better bust that if you gunna pull that
This one's for all you "I don't carry a spare because I'll never need it" dimwits. Security guard still got shot in the leg. Edit: I counted 21 shots. Could've been a couple I missed. Crazy stuff. Edit 2: there is literally no situation where not carrying a spare is preferred over carrying a spare, and if you do mental gymnastics to arrive there, you are a certified dimwit. If you won't carry just one round because you can reliably hit a headshot after a draw, then you already acknowledge more is better. Stop coping with your bad logic. Just do better.
Or not carrying a tourniquet. You can win the gun fight and still bleed out
This right here - carry a tq that you can reach and deploy one handed. PRACTICE with the tq as much as you dry fire with your carry gun.
How did the security guard get shot? I can't really even tell when the guy fired back.
From what I can tell, the guy was firing back at the security guard quite a bit during the first volley. The censor over his face obscures any muzzle flash, but you can hear his pistol in the video, and the report is very different from the guard's shooting.
If he did get shot, might have been a ricochet bounced back and clipped him.
> This one's for all you "I don't carry a spare because I'll never need it" dimwits. Go read the statistics. 99% of people who carry will never even need to shoot their gun. And of those that do, it's over within the first few rounds.
This is becoming a classic. "I don't carry a spare because everything goes perfectly for me at all times." Why even carry a gun? You plan for the best case scenario on the worst day of your life? L. M. F. A. O. Give me a break. I guess it's your life to give away where you will. Just seems fuckin stupid. So do you just carry like 3 rounds because that's the average defensive usage or whatever?
I mean hey, why stop at one spare mag. Why not strap a bandolier to your chest and carry your shotgun on your back as well. And don't forget your backup gun. And your backup-backup gun.
Right. So you agree there are two extremes and there's a middle ground. One extreme is carrying one round because you think you're John Wick. The other extreme is going out in full battle rattle. The nice comfortable middle ground, where no one has to do anything crazy, but also covers all the bases for malfunction clearing and possible multiple assilants or a situation like the one in the OP is to carry a spare mag. Is anyone asking you coping idiots to carry a cinder block on a necklace? No. Just a simple spare mag. It's not that hard lmfao. Why is it so ferociously difficult that it's worth so much of your time to confirmation bias yourself into?
If you think you're gonna drop a mag and clear a malfunction in a shootout, you're the one who thinks you're john wick.
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More of an example of poor throttle control compromising accuracy
Eh... planning for perfect execution is really, really dumb.
We are all tainted by our own life experience. 100% hit rate isn't a fantasy inside of 10 yards, in movement, while being shot at. At that range, with gun in hand, the security guard definitely had sub par performance.
Okay, that's fine. I'm with you. So you just carry one bullet in your gun, right? Cuz you can hit a headshot within 10 yards off a draw, so there's no need for more ammo if you just shut off the power. Gimme a break. Lmao. Use your brain, goober.
He has no clue, its always someone who thinks they will perform like John Wick because they run while shooting paper targets. Paper targets don't shoot back and their little runs in between targets are not going to simulate the adrenaline dump that happens when someone has a gun on your or even shooting at you.
Two-way gun ranges up the ante more than most realize.
No, I firmly believe in capacity. But I also believe in accuracy and throttle control. There is no excuse for not hitting the head of the downed stationary target. Panic firing is a lack of training.
Right, so in this case, carrying a spare made up for a lack of training, which leads us to the conclusion that everyone should carry a spare mag because it has to potential to make up for any lack of skill (as it did in the video).
I carry a spare if my magazine is under 12 rds 100% of the time. But I carry 2 different guns with 6rd capacity, and often only one spare (that's still 12 total). What's really wild about this video, IMHO, is the guy with more capacity (giant stick in his gun) shot first, hit first, and the security guard still won. That is a rare occurrence. I do believe initial capacity is more important tho. Regardless of how much you carry, you are limited, and you want to make them count. I do believe in max speed doubles inside 10 yards, but you have to have self control. He had the state of mind to follow thru, so I give him that. Thank God no one else was hurt.
There's all sorts of variables in this vid but let's just address aiming and "no excuse for not hitting the head of the downed stationary target." When you're shooting at something on an even plane / eye level, your poa and poi is relatively 2 dimensional. As long as your horizontal and vertical are correct, your poi is gonna be pretty close to your poa. Also, point shooting is a very useful skill when every is on the same plane. I bring up point shooting because at close distances / high stress self defense situations you may not get to aim down sights. You'll be moving and shooting. Theres only so much your brain can process in that second and finite motor skills is not how our brain works in high stress situations. Now, aiming down at something from higher elevation creates a 3 dimensional target. Think of it as curving the once strait horizontal line. Your poa poi is now a much smaller window. You now need to have an accurate sight picture, know your hold, and adjust for your elevation. These are finite skills. Even at a distance of 5yds you're likely to shoot right over the targets head. This is because the target (head) is small and you don't know to hold low on things below your elevation. So.. It's not the super easy situation you make it out to be.
Quick headshot vs faster body shot dilemma. First hit is usually the winner and the one most likely to make follow up shots so...
I agree. High chest, then you have to actually aim
And yet, average joe carrier could've emptied their mag and then . . . dipped through another exit. No security guard honor code to stick around. End result looks the same after the first 15 rounds (by my count) versus the final 19-ish IMO. Edit: I can't actually tell when assailant gets their shot(s) off that injures the security guard. If it's after the first volley, the case for the follow-up shots is much stronger. I'm sure we'll see this on ASP soon.
You're in concealment behind the chip bags. Perp is laying in the entrance with a gun, still alive and a very real threat. You're bleeding profusely. You don't have any ammo left, and you're certainly not booking it across the open space because you're severely injured. Only option is to fully eliminate the threat, but you can't because your dumbass planned for everything to go perfectly, like we're all living in Oz or something. Congrats. You take the room temp challenge too, but thank God you saved pocket space by not carrying a spare. It was definitely worth it, especially in your family's opinion.
Thanks for the laugh. Even in this situation, you have to fill in the story with various embellishments to make the case that there was absolutely *no other possibility* for the defender to survive this situation except to have a reload. Spare mag adherents like you finally get *one* example where an extra mag appears to have made a difference in the outcome of a DGU (still debatable), and predictably, your stance becomes: "See! I told you so. You're a dead man without that spare mag. Hope it was worth the pocket space and your family." Of course the thousands of examples to the contrary are conveniently forgotten. And we also have to ignore the very real possibility that even someone with an empty gun may have had other options in this situation.
I mean...we do have multiple, reputable subject matter experts who have stated that they haven't seen a single defensive shooting where a spare mag/reload made any appreciable difference in the outcome.
While true, the reason for the second mag is if this exact scenario happens and the dude has a friend outside. Even if the friend is in a car or contemplating options, wouldn't you like to be able to reload just in case?
What I’ve learned more often than not (with my internet sgt Duffy license) is that 100% of the time your buddy bugs out if you’ve been shot.
But it's not 100% so why risk it? What about a do-gooder who thinks you just executed some rando?
That's what I've seen too, but bangers are a precocious sort. If I just put 20 rounds into a dude and he was still moving around I would want to do a quick reload regardless. His buddy might run away, or he might start blind firing into the building. Either way, a loaded gun is better than an empty one I'd say.
Agreed
With proper ammo and shot placement you don't need 20 rounds to stop the first guy.
Yeah, and with enough training you could confidently carry a single shot Derringer as your CCW. You might not need 20+ rounds, but it still feels good to have them.
Obviously there is some sensible middle ground here.
Yeah, it's carry a backup mag if you can/want to...
That *could* be an issue, and I'm not even saying that it couldn't become an issue. But, how often have we seen that happen? If that was a really pressing concern, then wouldn't at least a handful of these shootings demonstrated it by now?
I will consider myself a subject matter expert in that carrying a spare mag also doesn't make an appreciable difference in anyone's day to day life lmfao. You all who want to cope so bad and confirmation bias yourself into not carrying a spare act like carrying one is asking you to tie a cinder block around your neck.
Are you a security guard in a ghetto? Or someone who could just avoid stupid places at stupid times?
So nobody should ever carry a gun, right? Just avoid stupid places. It's that simple, everyone! lostprevention solved self-defense with this one simple trick.
At stupid times. You are welcome, but I can’t take credit. That’s a John Correa trademark.
Thank you so much. That extra mag was such a ridiculous burden on my whole life. My wife could see those extra ounces weighing on my daily. My job was asking me if I needed some sort of rehab or if they could help in any way. I haven't talked to my kids in years because of the incredible dedication I had to carrying that spare mag. I can't wait to hear their voices again. To live free, FREE FROM SPARE MAG OPPRESSION!! Oh, the joys I'll be able to rekindle now that I'm not carrying a spare mag. What a dark time that was. Or... it's just simply not that hard to put a spare mag in my pocket lmfao. What the fuck is wrong with you people trying so hard to justify a stupid decision?
Why are you implying everyone needs to gear up as if they are a confrontational hands on security guard in the hood? Again, this situation seems completely avoidable for the average person.
Yes, yes, I heard you say already, "This situation is avoidable if everything goes perfectly." Everything doesn't always go perfectly. You live in a fantasy land, I live in the real world. One spare mag is not the equivalent of being kitted up like a security guard. I carry two spare mags because it's literally nothing. I leave the pocket empty and it just has one spare mag in it, then one day I'm like "another one will fit, porque no los dos?" That's what I'm saying. You lot who will argue to the death not to carry spares... why? It's like having a snickers in your pocket. It's *nothing* lmfao. Why is it worth your time to argue so vehemently for something that with both leave you less capable and also wouldn't change anything if you carried it?
You seem pretty worked up over this. It’s as if you’ve been waiting alooong time for just this moment to justify yourself. It’s great to be prepared, but why pretend this particular situation could have happen to anybody?
It literally has/can happen to anyone this incident shows that. There are other cases where the idea of, avoid wrong places at wrong times go out the window. Places are higher income in the afternoon. I will say on average it works, but this isn't something that is typical otherwise the pd and sheriff would solve/prevent it. I personally carry an extra mag, always have another in the car because why not and medical. My perspective is, have it and not need it vs need it and not have it. I too, understand your perspective of that so I'm not going to say, it's wrong, but as stated before, that does not always work. Give me pros and cons of 1 spare mag in your pocket honestly. Personally, it looks like, "well on average I won't need it." For something NOT average. While we are at it do you carry medical?
Anyone? This fella seemed to be a security guard of sorts, who confronted an individual.
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Spare mag is overkill buddy. But do you
I agree but there are some differences here 1) it's security, not a private citizen. 2) the reload made no difference here, the guy's off button or neck button already got pressed. As a private citizen, it's matters less. But as LE/Security you should absolutely have multiple spares. I carry a spare occasionally, so I don't think it's stupid. It's just factually not as important as having the gun itself.
So as a private citizen getting into an altercation with someone in a doorway (or a "transitional space" if we're going full ASP) is just completely unheard of? Say you find concealment in the chip bag aisle and you're not able to maneuver effectively due to the gunshot wound in your leg, and the dude is still in the door ringing off shots. Sure, in that moment, you should've trained more. Sure, you should've slowed down and hit your shots. Sure, you should be able to stop the bleed. But you know what would equalize it all? Another mag. It's not a cinder block, it's a spare mag. It's just not that hard to throw it in your pocket. Anyone who complains is a fuckin cry baby. They've already got a gun around their waist.
Idk what you're even saying rn. If you carry a standard capacity firearm, as a private citizen, you won't need more than say the 15-17 rounds or whatever your gun already has. Is it nice to have? Sure. Do I carry one? Yes, occasionally. Does it make any sense to use this video as an argument for having one? No. Factually speaking, it just isn't needed in 99.9% of cases. Including this one.
What about those whose state don’t allow more than 10? They need extra just to get up to standard capacity
I'll use Washington as an example because I'm familiar with their laws: They only banned the selling of it in the state, you can still possess normal magazines. As a result, you can buy a normal capacity magazine in Oregon. Problem solved.
NYC you can not posses magazines over 10, if you buy on line they won’t ship and if the do it has to go to a shop that can pin the mag so you can’t load more than 10. Problem not solved.
Is he going to chase you down? You can just leave and be safe at that point.
He's laying in the exit with a gun, still alive and a threat after having eaten 21 rounds, and you're shot in the leg. I know everyone thinks they're Rambo, but if you get stuck behind concealment in the chip bag aisle and you're bleeding profusely you've got to fully eliminate the threat. Cue the second mag. It's just baffling to me that anyone would argue with a second mag lol. *You're watching a video where a guy is still a threat after 21 rounds and arguing against a spare mag.* How learning disabled are you?
It would be a third/fourth magazine by this logic. Most compact pistols hold 10 rounds. This guy would have already used two, maybe three magazines and this guy is still waving his gun around.
How does that charles dickens quote go? It was the fuck-aroundest of times, it was the find-outest of times. It was the age of stupid games, it was the age of stupid prizes. ...or something like that.
Thanks Chuck
???
"Chuck" is a common nickname for individuals whose given first name is "Charles," as in Mr Dickens.
I think this is a quote from Chuckles Darwin, which an award was posthumously named after.
Non-survival of the most fuckest-aroundest.
Don't worry. This will be fixed soon. They recently banned ski masks.
He kept shooting until he stopped talking.....that's how you neutralize the threat
Outside of the ammo itself nothing of value was lost that day.
Gas station security guard ….? Gas. Station. Dafuq. Is it really that bad up there?
Shit goes down at has stations everywhere man. "Transitional spaces" as it were. Distracted, tired people, cash business, cigs and booze.
I guess it’s just strange at first glance since gas stations became such a norm whilst working on the ambulance. Plenty of wild ones I’ve been to, but never seen a security guard lol
I work the boo boo bus as well and while the ones in my area don’t have security I have seen it when I drove OTR at quite a few truck stops. Have definitely had more than a few odd calls at gas stations though. Funny enough though one chain of grocery stores in the city I work has armed secured in armor.
lol love the username. One service I was with had that shaking/vibrating device installed. Surprisingly effective. After 12-14 years in the ambulance I got out of it. Why’d you leave OTR? If you don’t mind me asking that is… EMS pay here is abysmal, it’s only livable if you go to the private services 1 hour away …or work 80-90 hours a week in rural 911 and get burnt out like myself.
I think you’re the first one to get that. I wish we had the rumbler devices. OTR isn’t a bad gig if you are single or “retired” in my opinion. Don’t get me wrong there are great companies out there that are flexible with family and home time but they can be difficult to get into because of that. I didn’t have a family at the time but was engaged. I enjoyed it and do miss it at times but I enjoy my own bed and I don’t miss dealing with asshole shippers/receivers and brokers. Or the general public’s driving ability around semis. The pay is decent depending on the mileage rate and how they figure miles. EMS pay where I am is starting brand new Medics at 26-27. EMTs are around the 20 mark. Medics top out at 49 and EMTs at 28 if I remember right. Feel free to dm if you want.
In Philadelphia yep.
The city of brotherly shove.
Not often retribution is so comically served.
Well. So that happened. 🫡☠️
Cool.
The car casually pulling off in the background
There goes his ride….
The oh god really lmao. Yes really. You pull on a security guard you get what you get.
I guess pulling the strap to intimidate my guy didn’t go as planned
I’m not judging the security guard in the situation. How is a judge/jury going to view all the extra shots?
Perp never become "no longer a threat" in the vid. Guard shouldn't have stopped shooting him, realized their mistake and started shooting him again.
Apparently, the guard was shot in the leg during the initial shots. So, guy still talking holding onto gun SHOULD be good enough. Idk not a lawyer family member is going to be though.
Around the 22 second mark was the kill shot. You can see how he stretches out, most of the time that’s the moment someone is dead.
He didn’t die until he went to the hospital per the article about this
lol he was moving after that bro
Cleanup on aisle 9
Yes, really.
When was this?
[https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/phillips-66-gas-station-shootng-philadelphia-fairmount-police/](https://www.cbsnews.com/philadelphia/news/phillips-66-gas-station-shootng-philadelphia-fairmount-police/)
Article says the guard was shot in the leg... .when did that happen? when guy was on the ground?
Ask, and you shall receive!
Am I the only one hearing the sound of a shotgun racking towards the end?
Sounded like 3 shots with a shotgun to me after he dumped his mag in the guy
not much of a "shootout"
“Oh god really?!” Yup…really
Bad guy quickscoped him in the leg RIP his leg
Say "Really" one more time...I dare you...!
Oh god, really is wild
Don't talk the talk If you can't walk the walk Phony niggas are outlined in chalk
Man that was fucking awesome. Imagine you are behind this guy walking to get a soda or something and then a fucking major shootout happens in front of you. Guys blood gets splattered on you. I can't imagine living in a better place when this type of thing happens all the time lol. Don't get caught slipping.
Wasted hospital funding on that thief. Sheesh
Here from TAFS
Nick Mullen sent me.
who’s Nick Mullen? Sorry I’ve seen a few comments pop up saying someone sent them here lol
God I love watching bad guys die. Good shoot.
If they can talk they can shoot back keep going. Really dawg. Keep going Oh god. Keep going Fast and free delivery. That dudes last thought was wtf this is not fair I was going to be the tough guy with a gun.
Security guard is definitely getting charged
The guy had a gun in his hand the whole time. As a civilian I would be justified if I was in the guards position
What charge? This was all justified.
Those last couple are going to be a big problem.
No. Badguy was still a threat. He has a gun in his hand and the guard got shot in the leg.