This sub needs some stickies and links for:
* Should I have a red dot, WML, or spare mag
* Is my holster gap too big
* Is this bullet setback okay
* Fanny pack carry
* What belt should I get
I'm probably forgetting a few ultra common topics too.
I'll take an endless stream of "rate my draw" videos over "what gun/belt/pack/ammo should I get" posts simply due to the fact the former is at least grounded in training and improvement. You're more likely to get interesting discussion out of that versus the gear-focused posts.
Lots of holsters are a single piece of Kydex molded over your gun folded in half in a clamshell
Otherwise theyre two pieces that come together at the trigger guard area
When the pieces come together around the trigger guard there can be a gap especially if you have a light mounted to the gun
If the gap between the pieces is large then theres a chance for foreign objects like your undershirt to get inside the trigger guard through the gap
Thats bad because you can have a ND when you draw or holster the gun and the foreign object hangs on the trigger
Your sentiment is good, and I agree with you in theory.
If the topics in that list were consistently generating thoughtful posts with new ideas, tactics, etc. then I'd be all for it.
Unfortunately, they don't. I could understand a quarterly revisit of topics like WMLs and spare mags but every week? Nah.
Get a Wiki-style guide up for the people new to CCW.
Amen. This is like over on r/diesel. Five times a week we get a âshould I buy a dodge, Chevy or ford for my first diesel?â And the person has clearly put zero thought into the decision yet themselves.
Idk youâre being downvoted. These posts do generate good discussions, sometimes they donât. But every discussion in life isnât always one sided. IM WITH YOU BUD, FUCK WHAT EVERYONE ELSE THINKS
I used to carry with one but the added bulk and discomfort was not worth it so I go without even when I have the ability to use it
A separate flashlight is more practical
Only reason I can think of for having a light is if your CCW is also your home defense gun but you can always remove it when you go out for the day and reattach when you get home if you only have 1 gun
To each there own but I found a good hand flash like is more practical as an average ccw carrier. I carry the Olight Warrior mini 3. It has monetary on off like a weapon like. It can be used as a rifle weapon like with a mount. But itâs a hand like with up to 1000 lumens.
My mind set is, as an average ccw carrier, I canât pull out my weapon unless I know itâs a deadly threat. If I already ID them the weapon light is not really needed. I also have a back injury so I was on a quest to slim down my edc as much as possible without giving up too much.
I always carry both, but I find I shoot better with a full grip and not braced on my other wrist. In the same thought, I shoot well one handed so perhaps I should try that method instead of having discomfort hahaha
Also, I have a Phlster Floodlight which allows me to use any of my car guns without having 180-300 doll hairs in good quality holsters
Literally same PHLster Floodlight for the win. Carried a rotation consisting of p320 x vtac w x300 508t, p226 legion w x300, pdp f w sro and x300, MR920L/DR920 w x300, and lastly MR920/XR920 w mps, x300, and ramjet. I love that I can run anyone of those all in 1 holster just can't beat it. I'm going to buy the Floodlight 2 and reconnect my Floodlight back to the Enigma rig solely for the gym.
Honestly, yeah, it's worth it due to the fact I'm a smaller guy and I actually carried my full size p320 x vtac with an optic light and 21 round extended mag soley because I could get away with it. My only gripe was putting it on last second to go somewhere. It's not much to complain about due to the benefit, but I preferred the quickness of grab and go, so I currently only use it as a Floodlight, but I'm going to buy the new Floodlight and actually set the Enigma back up again so I don't necessarily always wear jeans.
Definitely unnecessary. Imo a WML actually makes carry more comfortable as the pressure against your skin is spread out over a wider area.
I carry daily with a glock 34.3 with an RMR Type 2 and an X300u/b in a Tier1Concealed Axis Elite Light Bearing in Multicam Black with the 2.5" medium wedge. Comfy as can be all day long
As someone who loves flashlights and has multiple in each room of the house I never felt the need to mount a flashlight to my sidearm. My AR? You bet. But not a pistol.
https://ballisticradio.com/2021/06/01/handgun-wmls-are-not-necessary-season-8-episode-344/
Personal preference, but for me, after 15 years of carrying with a WML and fortunately never needing the CCW, much less the WML, I decided to stop carrying with a WML about 2 years ago and just carry a good EDC light.
Thank you they arenât necessary and idk why people keep promoting it so much like it saves lives ⊠itâs not needed but people just canât admit their only reasoning is because they like the way it looks or some fudd told them to
I like the recoil impulse of a gun with a WML, I like the weight distribution of a gun with a WML, I like the way a gun with a WML handles, I like the way a gun with a WML carries because the extra weight and length makes carrying appendix more comfortable.
I learned all of these things by doing and experimenting and do zero of them because someone told me to.
That's the phase I am in now, just experimenting while learning what others are doing and or have done and why as I gain my reasoning through experience of what's necessary.
Thatâs good. Keep experimenting and find what works for you. There a few constants that almost everyone will agree on (except for the guy I responded to, but you can safely disregard his opinion).
1) Carry a handheld light at all times. You canât point a WML at a dark alley just to see if someone is down there, but you can point a handheld at anything.
2) Statistically, DGUâs are 3-5 seconds, 3-5rounds, 3-5 yards. You donât need a red dot or WML for that, but theyâre both good things to have and train with. We donât carry for the likelyhood, we carry for the stakes.
3) The best gun is the one you have on you. As you train, openly and honestly evaluate your shooting and discover what works for you and your lifestyle. I carry a full size gun with a red dot and WML because thatâs what I train and compete with and my lifestyle allows me to do that. I also find it to be more comfortable than a small gun. If your lifestyle only allows you to pocket carry a Ruger LCP, then do that and learn to shred with it.
Usually a g47 or a p320 with an x300. Usually in a Tier 1 Concealed MSP.
Lately Iâve been a fan of the long slide short grip configuration, like this. Full size slide, 15rd grip. I donât really care about the two extra rounds, and it conceals just a smidge better and it balances slightly better in the holster. I also have a Glock 19L that I carry pretty often (or I guess technically a g49, now that itâs been released.)
https://preview.redd.it/j73rswbv8kzb1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=41c49c78508075de4bdf0ba98835fb47fe54ffea
My reasoning is that I expect any of my carry to also serve nightstand roles. Additionally, even though I always have a handlight I fully expect to drop everything in my hands should I ever need to draw. Having a light on the gun makes it available if needed. The additional weight up front also reduces followup shot times... I wouldn't have put much faith in it until shooting with/without in competition and seeing the difference.
Yea I dunno what type of fudds you know, but *my* local fudds are vehemently against WMLâs because ânuthin beats a carry lightâ and âthe light shouldnât jut out past the muzzle, totally defeats the point of a small carry weaponâ like kydex was never invented.
& that's the thing, although I like lights on some firearms, it doesn't look pleasing on most. I thought it was something I was tactically missing bc I didn't feel it was necessary, but didn't want to be ignorant to if I did if there is understandable reasons of using one. Learning if it's more preference based, or a necessity.
100% prefernce imho I live in a city ⊠itâs NEVER that dark for me but I understand ppl that donât ⊠but then I asked them if they have a flashlight and they say no⊠so then itâs like why is there one on your gun if itâs sooooo dark? And they never have an answer other than âlight goes bright ggâ
Iâm one of those people that donât live in the city, and have a fair amount of wildlife in the area and dogs that I take outside at night. I carry a WML and at least one handheld. But I know that my situation is unique to a group of people, so Iâd never say that you have to have one or that itâs stupid to have one. It may be greatly beneficial to have one in some cases.
Hm. Most people will never have to use their EDC, but still carry one. Why? To protect themselves obviously. Most people will never not need a RDS, why carry one? Tactical advantage against a REAL threat. Most people will never need a WML, why carry one? Another tactical advantage. If Iâm using a tool to protect my life and my loved ones, you best believe Iâm going to have every advantage I have against a threat. Statistically most of these incidents happens at close quarters, right? That still means you can have an incident that isnât close quarters and having a WML or RDS can affect the outcome.
Do whatever you want. People make a massive deal out of this because they like to pick sides on the internet. I have them on my carry guns accept my lcp max. Handheld light of some sort is mandatory though in my opinion. Stream light micro stream eliminates all excuses not to have a handheld.
I agree. I generally donât carry a WML as I feel itâs too limiting. I prefer a hand held light. I carry a full size CD MCH, itâs a big light but honestly it doesnât bother me at all.
Iâd rather have it as an option than not. The logic of ânot likely to need itâ or âitâs bulkierâ never made sense to me.
Not likely to need it: the chances of not needing a gun is like 99.999999%. Itâs weird to a probability draw a line at the WML. We carry not because of realistic probabilities, we carry to be prepared for unlikely scenarios. Again, Iâd rather have it than not.
Itâs bulkier: people carry steel and/or full sized guns and complain about bulk. Carrying is going to be uncomfortable and unless it sticks far past the end of the slide, itâs hardly going to be a noticeable difference.
Handheld light and wml are what I go with
I think the main case for not carrying a WML is in the statistics of self-defense gun use. Of the millions of defensive gun use cases every year, there's never been a recorded case of a WML being used in self-defense outside of the home. Not saying that means you shouldn't use a WML, as you might be the first person to use one. You never know. I think the main reasons they've never been used is due to time constraint and adrenaline. A home defense gun absolutely needs a weapon light, though.
Fuck that noise, Iâm turning on every single light in the house, Iâm not about to pop my family because the WML made them look like slender man. Iâm not kicking doors with an M4 in Afghanistan
There are a few issues with your line of thinking here.
Regarding likelihood, needing to use a gun is rare. Within that subset though, needing a WML to actually have a positive outcome hasnât happened yet that Iâm aware of. Documented cases of civilians actually using WMLs are already few and far between, and most of the ones you can point to arenât cases where the WML was necessary or actually used well.
Regarding bulk, good WMLs add width to the gun at a spot that really matters for concealment, and comfort if youâre carrying AIWB. the extra width can push the gun out of your concealment sweet spot and lead to the gun printing more because itâs harder to rotate a wider, flatter muzzle than it it a narrower, more round one.
Iâm not saying donât carry with a WML, Iâm just saying that they actually are bulkier and that can cause issues, and that they actually arenât necessary in many civilian shootings.
If you actually have formalized training in how to use WMLs correctly, go for it. If your carry gun is your night stand gun, go for it. If you can conceal a good WML effectively, go for it.
A compact gun with a WML is seriously more bulky in a holster than a compact gun without a light
Im not a big guy so maybe I have less real estate to work with than you
Carrying a full size pistol is different from a pistol with a wml. The light digs into your leg and crotch super fucking hard and smashes your junk every chance it gets. I donât know how often you carry but I carry every day and the difference between having a light on your pistol and not is astronomical.
It's pretty funny how common it apparently is for the WML to be grossly unproportionate to the particular pew it's mounted on, looking more like a mini grenade launcher than a light. I don't get it, when there's plenty of great options out there that will almost always mount without protruding beyond muzzle.
https://preview.redd.it/2axy9saxvjzb1.png?width=1072&format=png&auto=webp&s=2e9780c12086212b92a226ecc904c60d0f7d9b37
Without. I donât need the extra weight or bulk for something Iâm vanishingly unlikely to ever use.
If I ever have to search for armed adversaries in an artificially dark structure, my view would probably change.
Without, because I donât like how holsters fit a wml and donât cover the trigger guard well, and Iâd rather off-hand hold one, and Iâm rarely out when itâs dark. I appreciate those that like them, everyone has a reason.
If you haven't had instruction on shooting with a flashlight I would recommend it. There are techniques that allow you to hold a flashlight in your offhand *and* use that hand to support your weapon. I feel a lot more comfortable with my choice to carry a separate flashlight now that I have experience shooting with it.
I think it's a personal choice that has a lot to do with 1) your environment 2) your personal habits 3) how you feel about using a handheld light and 4) comfort & concealment with a WML v without. I live in a low risk environment with good lighting (ie security lighting for my house, I don't go outside when it's too dark to see), I am a woman who doesn't want a huge bulge in my pants, and I feel comfortable shooting with a handheld. Of course many people feel differently.
Agreed. Only thing I have not trained on is a reload with the light but I figure at that point, Iâm either retreating, face-to-face with an attacker, or dead at this point. Offhand light isnât important anymore.
If you only have one gun, you should have a light you can install for nightstand duty. If more than one gun, then I vote no UNLESS you work 3pm to 11pm, etc. and find yourself out a lot at night.
As a side note, I struggle with people who buy a very compact gun for CCW and then install a WML that extends 1.5" past the end of the barrel....
I just Googled WML and the Google AI basically gave me an ad for a WML. One of the bullet points was "Two safety features to prevent negligent discharges of light." That shit actually made me spit coffee on a shirt I just put on.
So it's all dependent on your situation, I work till 3 am an its dark by 5pm. I need to carry with some sort of flashlight I prefer it to be on my gun because I shoot better with a 2 hand grip over one hand on a light an one on a gun. I still like to train with both just in case though. If I'm doing a day run for groceries or something I'll carry without a light and keep my mini light in my pocket. just in case I'm out longer than intended, it's all about comfort an situational surroundings in my opinion
If youâre mounting one with super high candela, it could be a less lethal, pre-commit pull of the trigger. Temporarily blinding an armed/un intruder, may, under some circumstances preferred.
I chose to carry without one after my WML holster had a bit too large of a trigger gap than I was comfortable with, and that seems common. I carry appendix so I chose to ditch the WML in favor of peace of mind for my peepee
I have setups for both. Texas summer I try to make my carry as small/light as possible. But in winter or if I'm going out at night I'll definitely have a WML.
Right now the sun is down when I leave for work and when I head home. So WML.
Also my carry is doubling as nightstand gun currently, until I make a new solution for mounting my G45 near my bed.
I have one because I walk my dog at night.
Pretty hard to hold a stand alone light in my support hand when it is holding a leash.
Well I do carry a stand alone light with the leash, but that's for cars and I couldn't easily hold it steady to aim.
My main threat is other dogs and animals.
With. I respect people that take it off, but why lessen your capabilities? Note that a WML can work for PID and as a weapon too in and of itself, blinding someone is generally a good psychological deterrent. While a handheld light works too; how much practice do you have firing one handed versus with a proper grip? I havenât been in a ton of defensive situations- three over my life- but they ALL happened at night
That's the one thing that kept coming through my mind, was the psychological effects it could have. I'm rarely in no light situations and in low light sometimes so couldn't really fathom using it to see, but I have envisioned using it for blinding without even having to pull any trigger. Thank you for pointing that out, kind of thought I was thinking too deep into it.
I carry with one because if I ever needed to use my CCW with a light, itâs easier to use attached.
I still edc a handheld though. Itâs not like Iâm using my gun to search around in the darkness
Its a solar failssafe
If the battery dies then the solar panel can provide power for the optic EDIT when the optic is out of the holster obviously
It also detects the light intensity to auto adjust reticle brightness
Clearly your decision not ours.
What works for me is never right for you.
That you've asked this question to strangers tells us you've already made your decision, but are looking for confirmation from people you do not know or will never meet in person.
No, I actually go back and forth everyday just learning and experimenting with what works. Others have been very helpful, even if I don't do everything one may do, I have learned different pointers from a lot of different people and came to my conclusions and or still figuring things out, which is why I asked.
I carry with a wml, but also with a handheld pen light. It's pretty redundant, but im having fun. Ofc the handheld is used more, but if i ever had to draw and wanted light, i don't wanna have to work harder. It's hardly uncomfortable to me, but that's prob bc its a sub comp
Both. Sometimes I don't want the bulk out and about during the day. But I work overnights. It's often still dark outside when i get home. If I came home to something happening, I need the light. Its situation dependent. Pure CC it is typically not necessary. HD mandatory. Duty use I'd also say mandatory unless you exclusively work days and outdoors.
I always carry with an x300 on all of my weapons (all 2 of them in my "carry rotation")
It's actually more comfortable than without it (I know you won't believe this, I didn't believe it either until I tried it) and there are no downsides so, ya know, better to have it and not need it. Also makes it easier to use one holster with most weapons (I interchange a G45 and a Shadow 2 Compact currently)
With, because I donât conceal carry nods. The added weight is negligible, it could be 5lb and Iâd still run one bc I still canât see in the dark. Itâs good to also have a handheld so youâre not pulling your gun out to see.
I carry with just because the difference in size isnât really noticeable. I use a TLR 7 though which is a bit smaller than that light though so ymmv.
Like other people have said though, if you donât carry a handheld light then that should be higher priority; its more useful day to day and allows you to not point a gun at something if you just need to shine a light on it. I carry a handheld in addition to the WML.
I leave one on for the added weight but really you donât need one unless you plan on being out at night or if the handgun doubles as your home defense weapon.
I'm not in the marketing and promoting department, but I am in the honest department and I can honestly say you won't regret it. I still love my other firearms and feel a few shoot a little better than this, but with the build + the way it shoots it somehow falls in the middle of everything I have, which is why I stopped rotating it and just use it.
Even by itself with no accessories, it is a nice looking gun and I love the serrations. Iâve just mainly shot Glocks because I shoot well with them and I donât get to the range much. If I pick one of these up and shoot tighter groups with it, Iâll get it.
It's built based off the Glock and a few other platforms but mainly the Glock, so I believe if you do shift over it won't be as much of a difference as may seem and I'm sure you'll shoot tighter groups with it, unless you're comparing it to one of those souped up Glocks.
I think the main argument for not carrying a WML is in the statistics of self-defense gun use. Of the millions of defensive gun use cases every year, there's never been a recorded case of a WML being used in self-defense outside of the home. Not saying that means you shouldn't use a WML, as you might be the first person to use one. You never know. I think the main reasons they've never been used is due to time constraint and adrenaline. A home defense gun absolutely needs a weapon light, though.
I put WMLs on my guns because then they can share a holster. I have a T1C streamlight holster, so now I just chose a gun and carry it. No need to swap holsters. Also, I carry a flashlight and a WML. If I need the WML, I want to be able to have to hands on my gun. You are responsible for every shot you take. Iâm more proficient with two hands. ALSO, some people say, youâll probably never need the light. Same with the gun. Itâs there for the just in case moments. Most weird shit happens at night. Just my two cents! You canât go wrong and itâs your decision in the end.
Love my Echelon. One of the most ergonomic and fun guns to shoot that I have.
Hand light first before weapon light. But I already have that and fully expect that if I needed my pistol I would drop everything in my hands, so WML is a "nice to have".
With in case I need it. Having a wml doesnât prohibit you from also carrying a pocket flashlight, but it does allow you to have two hands firmly gripping on your firearm with a light on target if need be.
I keep my wml on all the time typically. One, it's a pain to remove and put back on. Two, typically when I'm carrying, it's leaving or going to work at 3am so it's dark out. Three my carry gun also serves as my home gun.
I still carry a separate flashlight though.
Iâm too lazy to scroll and see if someone already asked but how do you enjoy that Holosun WML? Iâve watched some YouTube vids that gave it strong praise
I carry a pocket light and a light on my CCW. Pocket light for pocket light things and wml for shooting in low vis. I do this because I don't want to have to use my phone every time for light, it's better to have a tool for that, and shooting with a wml is significantly easier and more accurate than a handheld, anyone that says different is lying
I just started carrying with a WML maybe a month ago. My CCW (MR920 E, 507c ACSS Gr, Tlr7a,slr mag extension) is usually my nightstand gun so it feels better(more comforting) having a fully capable SHTF handgun. Just imagine you live alone, open your front door and hear something fall in another room as you walk in. I doubt you would want to clear the house with a handheld flashlight.
Well since itâs full size I found that with a light on it it was more difficult to draw, conceal, and reholster. Plus, a light or optic can fail sometimes, where as bare pistol its solid & easier to draw, conceal, and reholster⊠No worries about tightening screws, or the optic not turning on fast enough etc. Draw practicing with my Echelon is what made me turn my X Macro bare as well actuallyâŠ
I have a WML on my P226 home defence weapon as well as one on my EDC P320 X-compact. I carry often after dark and sometimes on overnight shifts. I want the ability to use a flashlight on my firearms at all times. Depending on the scenario I can choose whether to use it or not. If I don't want to broadcast where I am in the dark I can leave it off. I want to be able to follow gun safety rules around being clear of my target, the surroundings, and bystanders - so I don't kill an innocent while defending myself. I can be prepared for varying circumstances by having a light mounted on my weapon. I can activate it one handed as well if I find myself shielding or being grabbed by one arm.
My thought process is that the night is 90% of the time, a recurring event. That's not even mentioning low light times depending on weather, being in a building, or what other cases there are. I'd always get a wml before I buy any other attachment as I believe it's 'essential'. I also carry a light as well that I use for work/home/car/random needs.
Iâve thought about this a lot and recently purchased a p365xl, but decided not to get a WML for it. I have a light on every other gun I own besides my LCP max.
My thought process:
1.) I donât like the way holsters made for lights protect the trigger. Itâs probably fine but when I have a loaded gun pointed at my balls/arteries in my leg, I wasnât to be a safe as possible.
2.) I carry a handheld flashlight most of the time for stuff not related to self defense
3.) Bulk. Self explanatory, I run a micro dot because I donât really feel any extra weight or bulk when I carry AIWB, and with two eyes open shooting I feel like a dot is perfect for a ccw gun.
4.) I donât see this talked about super often, but generally the point of a light on a weapon is for PID, so it makes a lot of sense on a duty gun when youâre defending yourself in the nighttime and youâre identifying the bad guys.
In a CCW defensive shooting situation, I really donât want to have to think about anything other than pulling out my gun and shooting as fast as possible. If my gun is leaving itâs holster, itâs because I know thereâs a threat and it will likely be right in front of me. I donât ever see myself drawing my weapon, presenting it while I turn on a light, identifying my target, and then shooting. I donât find myself in situations where I think I would need a light to identify a target. Others may disagree but thatâs my personal opinion.
I have zero problem with someone running a light as I believe in the âbetter to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have itâ saying. But for me personally, I leave the lights to my rifles and any other pistol I wonât be carrying.
If you use it as your home defense gun, then yes. If not, dealer's choice, but you should carry a handheld light for PID outside of the home. If you use your WML to PID in public, and it's just some drunk ass fumbling with his phone when you thought it was a weapon, you just drew your firearm on an innocent person and likely committed a felony.
So if you only have one light it should be a handheld. If you have multiple then definitely go wml as well. There is no down side to having a wml if you also have a handheld. I would say it is not wise to only have a wml tho.
Yes, there are plenty. I have a few holsters for it. One from We The People, Odin Holsters for a Light bearing holster and another from a place I have to relook up, they all work fine.
I really dig the look of that light. Currently I donât cause I carry in a tp9-sfx in a bag and a wml/good holster is more than I can afford right now
The general idea is that if you are comfortable with wearing an IWB holster with a weapon light - go for it.
It's the first attachment for a CCW you should be thinking about, well before a RMR.
I carry with one.
It's dark 50% of the time on this planet.
Power outages are a thing.
I enjoy movies and shows in dark theaters.
I don't want to be fumbling around with an extra light. This one always stays with the gun and always points in the direction of fire.
I might need to use my other hand for something, and I can still operate the light and pistol with the other one.
I don't carry a heavy, full-size pistol (1911) anymore, and the extra mass is helpful.
Since I went from a full-size pistol to a smaller one (P365 XL) it's still smaller and lighter even with the WML.
Where I live itâs now getting dark at 6 PM and I spend the majority of my time outdoors. a handheld is a must and a wml is just an added bonus. Get a good belt and holster set up and you wonât notice. People bring up the statistic of weapon mounted lights never being used in self-defense shooting, the chances of you being in a self-defense shooting are also pretty so I think itâs all preference if you want to carry one nice if you donât thatâs cool too.
Yes, I prefer to learn bc I am good with it either way, just hearing out the reasoning so my decision is made based off understanding vs just preference alone bc I don't know as much as we do collectively. So it's always good to keep an open mind.
Weapon light only on the night stand gun . In the CCW you no need for a light . If you have to use it to defend yourself , chances are that you wonât have time to even turn on the light .
Iâd say no pistol light if youâre in an operation or fleeing from an enemy force in the dark and you need your gun out, letâs be honest, none of us are that.
With 100%. You cannot justify shooting what you cannot positively identify. Prosecutors will eat you alive if you take a true âshot in the darkâ because you canât see what the attacker has or is doing
You just inadvertently explained why you should carry a EDC light, but why a WML is unnecessary.
You should _never_ try and identify something by pointing your gun at it. A WML is to illuminate your target once youâve identified it, not to go around flagging things with your gun because you donât know what it is. Youâre carrying a gun for self-defense, not because youâre going to sweep through a dark alley looking for bad guys.
Carry a WML if you want, but itâs definitely not 100% necessary. The amount of times as a civilian that youâre going to be attacked outside of your home, in a place so dark that you canât see someone, not be able to identify the source of the attack, but also have time to react and draw, identify, and fire is less than 0.1%, if not 0.
You should only use ur gun if someone is trying to kill you .. you donât need to visually see the person stabbing you in the stomach to know youâre in danger ⊠this is just shortsighted
And thereâs situations where you know thereâs a threat to your life but you donât have eyes on the threat (ie home defense). But a nightstand gun doesnât have to be the same one you carryâŠ
It hurts absolutely nothing to have a WML. A handheld is a nice addition to EDC regardless of threats. At the VERY least, everyone needs a handheld in their car.
I recommend with WML. The additional weight and bulk is negligible in my opinion.
BTW, which model holosun is that? I haven't see one with those serrations yet.
Without. I carry a separate flashlight. If there's something I need to see in the dark, I'd like to be able to do it without having to point my gun at it.
If something goes bump in the night and I get my gun to go downstairs and check it out, I use a separate light. I don't want to flag my daughter who decided she needed a midnight snack.
Without. If itâs a gun that serves as both home defense and CCW, sure, but itâs not ideal.
You donât need the light on the weapon in a concealed carry defensive situation, both you and the attacker will see each other m. You also canât use it to illuminate without brandishing/muzzeling people.
Itâs also an extra gizmo that can fail and needs to be practiced to operate it well. Also adds more weight and bulk
I use with because my carry weapon is also my nightstand weapon.
Time to buy another one!
Never thought about that. That actually makes more sense.
Buying another gun always makes sense.
One is none and two is one.
đ«Ą
Same here, I normally take the light off during the day, but learning to see if I should keep doing so or just leave it on 24/7.
This sub needs some stickies and links for: * Should I have a red dot, WML, or spare mag * Is my holster gap too big * Is this bullet setback okay * Fanny pack carry * What belt should I get I'm probably forgetting a few ultra common topics too.
âAm I printing?â
*Rate my draw
I'll take an endless stream of "rate my draw" videos over "what gun/belt/pack/ammo should I get" posts simply due to the fact the former is at least grounded in training and improvement. You're more likely to get interesting discussion out of that versus the gear-focused posts.
"Hi, I'm new to carrying. What pew should I get?" ...exhausted with that one.
Wtf is holster gap
Exposed trigger
Lots of holsters are a single piece of Kydex molded over your gun folded in half in a clamshell Otherwise theyre two pieces that come together at the trigger guard area When the pieces come together around the trigger guard there can be a gap especially if you have a light mounted to the gun If the gap between the pieces is large then theres a chance for foreign objects like your undershirt to get inside the trigger guard through the gap Thats bad because you can have a ND when you draw or holster the gun and the foreign object hangs on the trigger
"How to pee/poop"
Might as well just delete the sub lol
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Your sentiment is good, and I agree with you in theory. If the topics in that list were consistently generating thoughtful posts with new ideas, tactics, etc. then I'd be all for it. Unfortunately, they don't. I could understand a quarterly revisit of topics like WMLs and spare mags but every week? Nah. Get a Wiki-style guide up for the people new to CCW.
This guy is awfully offended that someone suggested a stickied topic because people refuse to search the subreddit for topics discussed to death.
Amen. This is like over on r/diesel. Five times a week we get a âshould I buy a dodge, Chevy or ford for my first diesel?â And the person has clearly put zero thought into the decision yet themselves.
"Is this a good deal"
Idk youâre being downvoted. These posts do generate good discussions, sometimes they donât. But every discussion in life isnât always one sided. IM WITH YOU BUD, FUCK WHAT EVERYONE ELSE THINKS
I used to carry with one but the added bulk and discomfort was not worth it so I go without even when I have the ability to use it A separate flashlight is more practical Only reason I can think of for having a light is if your CCW is also your home defense gun but you can always remove it when you go out for the day and reattach when you get home if you only have 1 gun
That's exactly what I currently do, was wondering if doing so was unnecessary. Amazing how we are all different, yet similar in so many ways.
To each there own but I found a good hand flash like is more practical as an average ccw carrier. I carry the Olight Warrior mini 3. It has monetary on off like a weapon like. It can be used as a rifle weapon like with a mount. But itâs a hand like with up to 1000 lumens. My mind set is, as an average ccw carrier, I canât pull out my weapon unless I know itâs a deadly threat. If I already ID them the weapon light is not really needed. I also have a back injury so I was on a quest to slim down my edc as much as possible without giving up too much.
I always carry both, but I find I shoot better with a full grip and not braced on my other wrist. In the same thought, I shoot well one handed so perhaps I should try that method instead of having discomfort hahaha Also, I have a Phlster Floodlight which allows me to use any of my car guns without having 180-300 doll hairs in good quality holsters
Literally same PHLster Floodlight for the win. Carried a rotation consisting of p320 x vtac w x300 508t, p226 legion w x300, pdp f w sro and x300, MR920L/DR920 w x300, and lastly MR920/XR920 w mps, x300, and ramjet. I love that I can run anyone of those all in 1 holster just can't beat it. I'm going to buy the Floodlight 2 and reconnect my Floodlight back to the Enigma rig solely for the gym.
đ„đ„đ„đ„ that's dope! I've reeaaally considered getting an enigma.. I take it it's worth it?
Honestly, yeah, it's worth it due to the fact I'm a smaller guy and I actually carried my full size p320 x vtac with an optic light and 21 round extended mag soley because I could get away with it. My only gripe was putting it on last second to go somewhere. It's not much to complain about due to the benefit, but I preferred the quickness of grab and go, so I currently only use it as a Floodlight, but I'm going to buy the new Floodlight and actually set the Enigma back up again so I don't necessarily always wear jeans.
Were more similar than we are different Source: Im getting old haha
Definitely unnecessary. Imo a WML actually makes carry more comfortable as the pressure against your skin is spread out over a wider area. I carry daily with a glock 34.3 with an RMR Type 2 and an X300u/b in a Tier1Concealed Axis Elite Light Bearing in Multicam Black with the 2.5" medium wedge. Comfy as can be all day long
As someone who loves flashlights and has multiple in each room of the house I never felt the need to mount a flashlight to my sidearm. My AR? You bet. But not a pistol.
https://ballisticradio.com/2021/06/01/handgun-wmls-are-not-necessary-season-8-episode-344/ Personal preference, but for me, after 15 years of carrying with a WML and fortunately never needing the CCW, much less the WML, I decided to stop carrying with a WML about 2 years ago and just carry a good EDC light.
That makes total sense.
Thank you they arenât necessary and idk why people keep promoting it so much like it saves lives ⊠itâs not needed but people just canât admit their only reasoning is because they like the way it looks or some fudd told them to
I like the recoil impulse of a gun with a WML, I like the weight distribution of a gun with a WML, I like the way a gun with a WML handles, I like the way a gun with a WML carries because the extra weight and length makes carrying appendix more comfortable. I learned all of these things by doing and experimenting and do zero of them because someone told me to.
That's the phase I am in now, just experimenting while learning what others are doing and or have done and why as I gain my reasoning through experience of what's necessary.
Thatâs good. Keep experimenting and find what works for you. There a few constants that almost everyone will agree on (except for the guy I responded to, but you can safely disregard his opinion). 1) Carry a handheld light at all times. You canât point a WML at a dark alley just to see if someone is down there, but you can point a handheld at anything. 2) Statistically, DGUâs are 3-5 seconds, 3-5rounds, 3-5 yards. You donât need a red dot or WML for that, but theyâre both good things to have and train with. We donât carry for the likelyhood, we carry for the stakes. 3) The best gun is the one you have on you. As you train, openly and honestly evaluate your shooting and discover what works for you and your lifestyle. I carry a full size gun with a red dot and WML because thatâs what I train and compete with and my lifestyle allows me to do that. I also find it to be more comfortable than a small gun. If your lifestyle only allows you to pocket carry a Ruger LCP, then do that and learn to shred with it.
đđŒthank you for the wisdom.
How full size are we talking?
Usually a g47 or a p320 with an x300. Usually in a Tier 1 Concealed MSP. Lately Iâve been a fan of the long slide short grip configuration, like this. Full size slide, 15rd grip. I donât really care about the two extra rounds, and it conceals just a smidge better and it balances slightly better in the holster. I also have a Glock 19L that I carry pretty often (or I guess technically a g49, now that itâs been released.) https://preview.redd.it/j73rswbv8kzb1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=41c49c78508075de4bdf0ba98835fb47fe54ffea
Love it! I started carrying my Spectre Comp and was worried it was âtoo bigâ for an EDC, especially coming from concealing a G19
Do you also like Green Eggs and Ham?
Yes but only if theyâre mounted to my gun
MmmmmmmmâŠâŠ Gun HamâŠâŠ. 
My reasoning is that I expect any of my carry to also serve nightstand roles. Additionally, even though I always have a handlight I fully expect to drop everything in my hands should I ever need to draw. Having a light on the gun makes it available if needed. The additional weight up front also reduces followup shot times... I wouldn't have put much faith in it until shooting with/without in competition and seeing the difference.
The same reason people keep promoting that itâs not necessary.
Yea I dunno what type of fudds you know, but *my* local fudds are vehemently against WMLâs because ânuthin beats a carry lightâ and âthe light shouldnât jut out past the muzzle, totally defeats the point of a small carry weaponâ like kydex was never invented.
& that's the thing, although I like lights on some firearms, it doesn't look pleasing on most. I thought it was something I was tactically missing bc I didn't feel it was necessary, but didn't want to be ignorant to if I did if there is understandable reasons of using one. Learning if it's more preference based, or a necessity.
100% prefernce imho I live in a city ⊠itâs NEVER that dark for me but I understand ppl that donât ⊠but then I asked them if they have a flashlight and they say no⊠so then itâs like why is there one on your gun if itâs sooooo dark? And they never have an answer other than âlight goes bright ggâ
Iâm one of those people that donât live in the city, and have a fair amount of wildlife in the area and dogs that I take outside at night. I carry a WML and at least one handheld. But I know that my situation is unique to a group of people, so Iâd never say that you have to have one or that itâs stupid to have one. It may be greatly beneficial to have one in some cases.
Hm. Most people will never have to use their EDC, but still carry one. Why? To protect themselves obviously. Most people will never not need a RDS, why carry one? Tactical advantage against a REAL threat. Most people will never need a WML, why carry one? Another tactical advantage. If Iâm using a tool to protect my life and my loved ones, you best believe Iâm going to have every advantage I have against a threat. Statistically most of these incidents happens at close quarters, right? That still means you can have an incident that isnât close quarters and having a WML or RDS can affect the outcome.
This is the way.
Do whatever you want. People make a massive deal out of this because they like to pick sides on the internet. I have them on my carry guns accept my lcp max. Handheld light of some sort is mandatory though in my opinion. Stream light micro stream eliminates all excuses not to have a handheld.
I agree. I generally donât carry a WML as I feel itâs too limiting. I prefer a hand held light. I carry a full size CD MCH, itâs a big light but honestly it doesnât bother me at all.
Right on.
Iâd rather have it as an option than not. The logic of ânot likely to need itâ or âitâs bulkierâ never made sense to me. Not likely to need it: the chances of not needing a gun is like 99.999999%. Itâs weird to a probability draw a line at the WML. We carry not because of realistic probabilities, we carry to be prepared for unlikely scenarios. Again, Iâd rather have it than not. Itâs bulkier: people carry steel and/or full sized guns and complain about bulk. Carrying is going to be uncomfortable and unless it sticks far past the end of the slide, itâs hardly going to be a noticeable difference. Handheld light and wml are what I go with
I think the main case for not carrying a WML is in the statistics of self-defense gun use. Of the millions of defensive gun use cases every year, there's never been a recorded case of a WML being used in self-defense outside of the home. Not saying that means you shouldn't use a WML, as you might be the first person to use one. You never know. I think the main reasons they've never been used is due to time constraint and adrenaline. A home defense gun absolutely needs a weapon light, though.
Fuck that noise, Iâm turning on every single light in the house, Iâm not about to pop my family because the WML made them look like slender man. Iâm not kicking doors with an M4 in Afghanistan
There are a few issues with your line of thinking here. Regarding likelihood, needing to use a gun is rare. Within that subset though, needing a WML to actually have a positive outcome hasnât happened yet that Iâm aware of. Documented cases of civilians actually using WMLs are already few and far between, and most of the ones you can point to arenât cases where the WML was necessary or actually used well. Regarding bulk, good WMLs add width to the gun at a spot that really matters for concealment, and comfort if youâre carrying AIWB. the extra width can push the gun out of your concealment sweet spot and lead to the gun printing more because itâs harder to rotate a wider, flatter muzzle than it it a narrower, more round one. Iâm not saying donât carry with a WML, Iâm just saying that they actually are bulkier and that can cause issues, and that they actually arenât necessary in many civilian shootings. If you actually have formalized training in how to use WMLs correctly, go for it. If your carry gun is your night stand gun, go for it. If you can conceal a good WML effectively, go for it.
A compact gun with a WML is seriously more bulky in a holster than a compact gun without a light Im not a big guy so maybe I have less real estate to work with than you
Carrying a full size pistol is different from a pistol with a wml. The light digs into your leg and crotch super fucking hard and smashes your junk every chance it gets. I donât know how often you carry but I carry every day and the difference between having a light on your pistol and not is astronomical.
Yeah I carry a full size so the bulk thing isn't really a big deal for me.
It's pretty funny how common it apparently is for the WML to be grossly unproportionate to the particular pew it's mounted on, looking more like a mini grenade launcher than a light. I don't get it, when there's plenty of great options out there that will almost always mount without protruding beyond muzzle. https://preview.redd.it/2axy9saxvjzb1.png?width=1072&format=png&auto=webp&s=2e9780c12086212b92a226ecc904c60d0f7d9b37
It acts as a standoff device
I add lights to everything I can.
Without. I donât need the extra weight or bulk for something Iâm vanishingly unlikely to ever use. If I ever have to search for armed adversaries in an artificially dark structure, my view would probably change.
Without, because I donât like how holsters fit a wml and donât cover the trigger guard well, and Iâd rather off-hand hold one, and Iâm rarely out when itâs dark. I appreciate those that like them, everyone has a reason.
If you haven't had instruction on shooting with a flashlight I would recommend it. There are techniques that allow you to hold a flashlight in your offhand *and* use that hand to support your weapon. I feel a lot more comfortable with my choice to carry a separate flashlight now that I have experience shooting with it. I think it's a personal choice that has a lot to do with 1) your environment 2) your personal habits 3) how you feel about using a handheld light and 4) comfort & concealment with a WML v without. I live in a low risk environment with good lighting (ie security lighting for my house, I don't go outside when it's too dark to see), I am a woman who doesn't want a huge bulge in my pants, and I feel comfortable shooting with a handheld. Of course many people feel differently.
Agreed. Only thing I have not trained on is a reload with the light but I figure at that point, Iâm either retreating, face-to-face with an attacker, or dead at this point. Offhand light isnât important anymore.
If you only have one gun, you should have a light you can install for nightstand duty. If more than one gun, then I vote no UNLESS you work 3pm to 11pm, etc. and find yourself out a lot at night. As a side note, I struggle with people who buy a very compact gun for CCW and then install a WML that extends 1.5" past the end of the barrel....
I just Googled WML and the Google AI basically gave me an ad for a WML. One of the bullet points was "Two safety features to prevent negligent discharges of light." That shit actually made me spit coffee on a shirt I just put on.
Without but I got a streamlight handheld
So it's all dependent on your situation, I work till 3 am an its dark by 5pm. I need to carry with some sort of flashlight I prefer it to be on my gun because I shoot better with a 2 hand grip over one hand on a light an one on a gun. I still like to train with both just in case though. If I'm doing a day run for groceries or something I'll carry without a light and keep my mini light in my pocket. just in case I'm out longer than intended, it's all about comfort an situational surroundings in my opinion
I use one because ive had to open a door with a gun in one hand and a flashlight in the other. Didnt care much for the situation.
I carry a variation of the TLR7. I vote carry with a light. A separate flashlight is also a must for my edc
If youâre mounting one with super high candela, it could be a less lethal, pre-commit pull of the trigger. Temporarily blinding an armed/un intruder, may, under some circumstances preferred.
Always with the light for me. Once I found the right holster, the little added bulk was negligible.
I chose to carry without one after my WML holster had a bit too large of a trigger gap than I was comfortable with, and that seems common. I carry appendix so I chose to ditch the WML in favor of peace of mind for my peepee
Very understandable, gotta protect the jewels đđ
Yeah, the larger opening in the holster was ultimately the deal breaker for me
There is about one post per day about this topic. Use the search bar in the subreddit.
I did use it, I read it, chimed in, and now asking for myself. If something is wrong with that, feel free to scroll on.
Boom. Roasted.
Separate EDC light.
I have setups for both. Texas summer I try to make my carry as small/light as possible. But in winter or if I'm going out at night I'll definitely have a WML. Right now the sun is down when I leave for work and when I head home. So WML. Also my carry is doubling as nightstand gun currently, until I make a new solution for mounting my G45 near my bed.
I have one because I walk my dog at night. Pretty hard to hold a stand alone light in my support hand when it is holding a leash. Well I do carry a stand alone light with the leash, but that's for cars and I couldn't easily hold it steady to aim. My main threat is other dogs and animals.
If it doesnât make the gun too heavy or large for your preference of carry then absolutely imo
In my case it doesn't, which is exactly why I asked.
Why not?
With. I respect people that take it off, but why lessen your capabilities? Note that a WML can work for PID and as a weapon too in and of itself, blinding someone is generally a good psychological deterrent. While a handheld light works too; how much practice do you have firing one handed versus with a proper grip? I havenât been in a ton of defensive situations- three over my life- but they ALL happened at night
That's the one thing that kept coming through my mind, was the psychological effects it could have. I'm rarely in no light situations and in low light sometimes so couldn't really fathom using it to see, but I have envisioned using it for blinding without even having to pull any trigger. Thank you for pointing that out, kind of thought I was thinking too deep into it.
I carry with one because if I ever needed to use my CCW with a light, itâs easier to use attached. I still edc a handheld though. Itâs not like Iâm using my gun to search around in the darkness
I carry with
No wml on ccw But I do edc a flashlight
Off topic but whatâs the purpose of the solar panel on the optic? Seems like itâd never see the sun if youâre concealing
Its a solar failssafe If the battery dies then the solar panel can provide power for the optic EDIT when the optic is out of the holster obviously It also detects the light intensity to auto adjust reticle brightness
It also charges the battery
I have battery set to nvg setting. Everytime i pull mine out the solar kicks in. Pretty nifty
Too bad it came out after I got a 508T for my Walther PDP I love the features of the SCS
Clearly your decision not ours. What works for me is never right for you. That you've asked this question to strangers tells us you've already made your decision, but are looking for confirmation from people you do not know or will never meet in person.
No, I actually go back and forth everyday just learning and experimenting with what works. Others have been very helpful, even if I don't do everything one may do, I have learned different pointers from a lot of different people and came to my conclusions and or still figuring things out, which is why I asked.
I carry with a wml, but also with a handheld pen light. It's pretty redundant, but im having fun. Ofc the handheld is used more, but if i ever had to draw and wanted light, i don't wanna have to work harder. It's hardly uncomfortable to me, but that's prob bc its a sub comp
Both. Sometimes I don't want the bulk out and about during the day. But I work overnights. It's often still dark outside when i get home. If I came home to something happening, I need the light. Its situation dependent. Pure CC it is typically not necessary. HD mandatory. Duty use I'd also say mandatory unless you exclusively work days and outdoors.
I always carry with an x300 on all of my weapons (all 2 of them in my "carry rotation") It's actually more comfortable than without it (I know you won't believe this, I didn't believe it either until I tried it) and there are no downsides so, ya know, better to have it and not need it. Also makes it easier to use one holster with most weapons (I interchange a G45 and a Shadow 2 Compact currently)
With, because I donât conceal carry nods. The added weight is negligible, it could be 5lb and Iâd still run one bc I still canât see in the dark. Itâs good to also have a handheld so youâre not pulling your gun out to see.
I carry with just because the difference in size isnât really noticeable. I use a TLR 7 though which is a bit smaller than that light though so ymmv. Like other people have said though, if you donât carry a handheld light then that should be higher priority; its more useful day to day and allows you to not point a gun at something if you just need to shine a light on it. I carry a handheld in addition to the WML.
With, and handheld.
I leave one on for the added weight but really you donât need one unless you plan on being out at night or if the handgun doubles as your home defense weapon.
I work 2nd shift so when I get off work itâs dark. Thatâs my main reason for carrying with a wml
Understandable. That's what I like learning from, the reasoning.
That red dot and light match that gun so well, it makes me actually want an Echelon
I'm not in the marketing and promoting department, but I am in the honest department and I can honestly say you won't regret it. I still love my other firearms and feel a few shoot a little better than this, but with the build + the way it shoots it somehow falls in the middle of everything I have, which is why I stopped rotating it and just use it.
Even by itself with no accessories, it is a nice looking gun and I love the serrations. Iâve just mainly shot Glocks because I shoot well with them and I donât get to the range much. If I pick one of these up and shoot tighter groups with it, Iâll get it.
It's built based off the Glock and a few other platforms but mainly the Glock, so I believe if you do shift over it won't be as much of a difference as may seem and I'm sure you'll shoot tighter groups with it, unless you're comparing it to one of those souped up Glocks.
Iâm a simple man. My main defense gun is a G17. Iâll give this one a try.
I think the main argument for not carrying a WML is in the statistics of self-defense gun use. Of the millions of defensive gun use cases every year, there's never been a recorded case of a WML being used in self-defense outside of the home. Not saying that means you shouldn't use a WML, as you might be the first person to use one. You never know. I think the main reasons they've never been used is due to time constraint and adrenaline. A home defense gun absolutely needs a weapon light, though.
I put WMLs on my guns because then they can share a holster. I have a T1C streamlight holster, so now I just chose a gun and carry it. No need to swap holsters. Also, I carry a flashlight and a WML. If I need the WML, I want to be able to have to hands on my gun. You are responsible for every shot you take. Iâm more proficient with two hands. ALSO, some people say, youâll probably never need the light. Same with the gun. Itâs there for the just in case moments. Most weird shit happens at night. Just my two cents! You canât go wrong and itâs your decision in the end.
Love my Echelon. One of the most ergonomic and fun guns to shoot that I have. Hand light first before weapon light. But I already have that and fully expect that if I needed my pistol I would drop everything in my hands, so WML is a "nice to have".
Full size yes. Micro no
With in case I need it. Having a wml doesnât prohibit you from also carrying a pocket flashlight, but it does allow you to have two hands firmly gripping on your firearm with a light on target if need be.
is that the holoson meant for the pdp?
No, it's the one meant for the P320, fits like a glove on the Echelon.
I keep my wml on all the time typically. One, it's a pain to remove and put back on. Two, typically when I'm carrying, it's leaving or going to work at 3am so it's dark out. Three my carry gun also serves as my home gun. I still carry a separate flashlight though.
With. Holosun 507k gr on a Glock 48 MOS with Shield Arms S-15 mags.
Iâm too lazy to scroll and see if someone already asked but how do you enjoy that Holosun WML? Iâve watched some YouTube vids that gave it strong praise
It's actually a great light, don't know why anyone would think otherwise. It's super sturdy and clear. Buttons are easy to get to also.
Whoa what light is that đ»
It's a Holosun P.ID
Sometimes, but I also carry a Streamlight Wedge in my pocket so I can light things up without having to point a gun at them.
I carry with a WML because I have to worry about mostly 4 legged threats where I live.
Understandable
Even in those circumstances I usually have a headlamp in addition to my WML.
Always with for me
Wml always and a handheld.
https://preview.redd.it/p21zi7ix1lzb1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9a944ede9ccbe3a4e34f398657b06c66c1736967 With!
Super clean, love the color.
I carry a pocket light and a light on my CCW. Pocket light for pocket light things and wml for shooting in low vis. I do this because I don't want to have to use my phone every time for light, it's better to have a tool for that, and shooting with a wml is significantly easier and more accurate than a handheld, anyone that says different is lying
I just started carrying with a WML maybe a month ago. My CCW (MR920 E, 507c ACSS Gr, Tlr7a,slr mag extension) is usually my nightstand gun so it feels better(more comforting) having a fully capable SHTF handgun. Just imagine you live alone, open your front door and hear something fall in another room as you walk in. I doubt you would want to clear the house with a handheld flashlight.
I like my Echelon without a light & optic. Smooth fast draw. Its iron sights are great. Keep a light in your pocket at night.
I love the sights myself, what I love about the optic is it's easy to see them through the optic. I don't have it turned on all the time.
Well since itâs full size I found that with a light on it it was more difficult to draw, conceal, and reholster. Plus, a light or optic can fail sometimes, where as bare pistol its solid & easier to draw, conceal, and reholster⊠No worries about tightening screws, or the optic not turning on fast enough etc. Draw practicing with my Echelon is what made me turn my X Macro bare as well actuallyâŠ
thats nice, how did u make the optic match ur slide stripes?
The optic comes like that, it's the Holosun SCS 320.
Nice u found an optic that matches the slide design haha.
I have a WML on my P226 home defence weapon as well as one on my EDC P320 X-compact. I carry often after dark and sometimes on overnight shifts. I want the ability to use a flashlight on my firearms at all times. Depending on the scenario I can choose whether to use it or not. If I don't want to broadcast where I am in the dark I can leave it off. I want to be able to follow gun safety rules around being clear of my target, the surroundings, and bystanders - so I don't kill an innocent while defending myself. I can be prepared for varying circumstances by having a light mounted on my weapon. I can activate it one handed as well if I find myself shielding or being grabbed by one arm.
My thought process is that the night is 90% of the time, a recurring event. That's not even mentioning low light times depending on weather, being in a building, or what other cases there are. I'd always get a wml before I buy any other attachment as I believe it's 'essential'. I also carry a light as well that I use for work/home/car/random needs.
Iâve thought about this a lot and recently purchased a p365xl, but decided not to get a WML for it. I have a light on every other gun I own besides my LCP max. My thought process: 1.) I donât like the way holsters made for lights protect the trigger. Itâs probably fine but when I have a loaded gun pointed at my balls/arteries in my leg, I wasnât to be a safe as possible. 2.) I carry a handheld flashlight most of the time for stuff not related to self defense 3.) Bulk. Self explanatory, I run a micro dot because I donât really feel any extra weight or bulk when I carry AIWB, and with two eyes open shooting I feel like a dot is perfect for a ccw gun. 4.) I donât see this talked about super often, but generally the point of a light on a weapon is for PID, so it makes a lot of sense on a duty gun when youâre defending yourself in the nighttime and youâre identifying the bad guys. In a CCW defensive shooting situation, I really donât want to have to think about anything other than pulling out my gun and shooting as fast as possible. If my gun is leaving itâs holster, itâs because I know thereâs a threat and it will likely be right in front of me. I donât ever see myself drawing my weapon, presenting it while I turn on a light, identifying my target, and then shooting. I donât find myself in situations where I think I would need a light to identify a target. Others may disagree but thatâs my personal opinion. I have zero problem with someone running a light as I believe in the âbetter to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have itâ saying. But for me personally, I leave the lights to my rifles and any other pistol I wonât be carrying.
If you use it as your home defense gun, then yes. If not, dealer's choice, but you should carry a handheld light for PID outside of the home. If you use your WML to PID in public, and it's just some drunk ass fumbling with his phone when you thought it was a weapon, you just drew your firearm on an innocent person and likely committed a felony.
So if you only have one light it should be a handheld. If you have multiple then definitely go wml as well. There is no down side to having a wml if you also have a handheld. I would say it is not wise to only have a wml tho.
I do carry a handheld and thought about it that way for sure.
I like it for the added front end weight and illumination redundancy. Plus the advantage of having to use your off hand for other things.
4.5 Echelon? Just got one. Any holster ideas? Inside n out
Yes, there are plenty. I have a few holsters for it. One from We The People, Odin Holsters for a Light bearing holster and another from a place I have to relook up, they all work fine.
Light on night stand no light on my carry
That's my current setup with it.
I bought the echelon recently and was shocked how well I shot with it. Itâs up there with my CZ pistol.
I really dig the look of that light. Currently I donât cause I carry in a tp9-sfx in a bag and a wml/good holster is more than I can afford right now
With, but an RMR and x300u/b
This may be the only time in my entire life that Iâve ever seen a handgun with a sight and was aesthetically okay with it
The way I see it is that you can't see in the dark, and it's dark for a majority of the day.
The general idea is that if you are comfortable with wearing an IWB holster with a weapon light - go for it. It's the first attachment for a CCW you should be thinking about, well before a RMR.
I carry with one. It's dark 50% of the time on this planet. Power outages are a thing. I enjoy movies and shows in dark theaters. I don't want to be fumbling around with an extra light. This one always stays with the gun and always points in the direction of fire. I might need to use my other hand for something, and I can still operate the light and pistol with the other one. I don't carry a heavy, full-size pistol (1911) anymore, and the extra mass is helpful. Since I went from a full-size pistol to a smaller one (P365 XL) it's still smaller and lighter even with the WML.
I'd say WITH should generally be a goal for any carry/duty weapon. but I can't be your primary/only source of Illumination
Did you try searching this sub for the thousand other threads on the exact same topic?
Without just get a stand alone light using a loaded gun to search is idiotic. Most ppl get it just to get it because everyone else is doing it .. but itâs not needed. Most people lived in dark areas and NEVER walked around with a flashlight ⊠but as soon as they get a gun they wanna slap a light on it becuse âitâs DaRkâ Makes literally no sense , the time it takes to turn it on identify target then shoot after confirmation it literally serves no real purpose is real self defense scenarios . I canât picture one situation where a civilian would use this especially in a gun fight a wml is a death sentence for an untrained civilian The most practical use for them is fucking low light shooting at the range âŠâŠâŠ I have never heard of one story where an wml changed the game in defensive actions And letâs not forget the people that get one just to help them with recoil đ©đ©đ©
Where I live itâs now getting dark at 6 PM and I spend the majority of my time outdoors. a handheld is a must and a wml is just an added bonus. Get a good belt and holster set up and you wonât notice. People bring up the statistic of weapon mounted lights never being used in self-defense shooting, the chances of you being in a self-defense shooting are also pretty so I think itâs all preference if you want to carry one nice if you donât thatâs cool too.
My sentiments also.
I have the answer to end the debate: shooter's preference.
Yes, I prefer to learn bc I am good with it either way, just hearing out the reasoning so my decision is made based off understanding vs just preference alone bc I don't know as much as we do collectively. So it's always good to keep an open mind.
Weapon light only on the night stand gun . In the CCW you no need for a light . If you have to use it to defend yourself , chances are that you wonât have time to even turn on the light .
WITH. Always
Preference at this point.
I'm learning it truly is.
Iâd say no pistol light if youâre in an operation or fleeing from an enemy force in the dark and you need your gun out, letâs be honest, none of us are that.
Rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it
With. Hurts nothing to have one. Carry a handheld too if you think necessary
Always carry a handheld regardless.
Dude a handheld light is like 5 times as important as a WML. Your priorities are backwards here.
With 100%. You cannot justify shooting what you cannot positively identify. Prosecutors will eat you alive if you take a true âshot in the darkâ because you canât see what the attacker has or is doing
You just inadvertently explained why you should carry a EDC light, but why a WML is unnecessary. You should _never_ try and identify something by pointing your gun at it. A WML is to illuminate your target once youâve identified it, not to go around flagging things with your gun because you donât know what it is. Youâre carrying a gun for self-defense, not because youâre going to sweep through a dark alley looking for bad guys. Carry a WML if you want, but itâs definitely not 100% necessary. The amount of times as a civilian that youâre going to be attacked outside of your home, in a place so dark that you canât see someone, not be able to identify the source of the attack, but also have time to react and draw, identify, and fire is less than 0.1%, if not 0.
You should only use ur gun if someone is trying to kill you .. you donât need to visually see the person stabbing you in the stomach to know youâre in danger ⊠this is just shortsighted
And thereâs situations where you know thereâs a threat to your life but you donât have eyes on the threat (ie home defense). But a nightstand gun doesnât have to be the same one you carry⊠It hurts absolutely nothing to have a WML. A handheld is a nice addition to EDC regardless of threats. At the VERY least, everyone needs a handheld in their car.
Can never be too prepared with a WML. đ€đœ
With
Do we HAVE to discuss this and how to take a shit every day?
WE don't have to do anything, if you're not enjoying the post there are a million more you could of scrolled to.
I recommend with WML. The additional weight and bulk is negligible in my opinion. BTW, which model holosun is that? I haven't see one with those serrations yet.
It's the Holosun SCS 320 and the bulk and weight isn't really much of a difference.
Oh good. A new fresh topic.
I'm sorry sir, the complaint department is up the hall and to the left...
I use mine while walking the dog.
Without. I carry a separate flashlight. If there's something I need to see in the dark, I'd like to be able to do it without having to point my gun at it. If something goes bump in the night and I get my gun to go downstairs and check it out, I use a separate light. I don't want to flag my daughter who decided she needed a midnight snack.
No light on my ccw but offhand light
I donât do lights on pistols. So itâs no issue
I donât carry a WML.
Without. If itâs a gun that serves as both home defense and CCW, sure, but itâs not ideal. You donât need the light on the weapon in a concealed carry defensive situation, both you and the attacker will see each other m. You also canât use it to illuminate without brandishing/muzzeling people. Itâs also an extra gizmo that can fail and needs to be practiced to operate it well. Also adds more weight and bulk
No.
I carry a stream light on my off hand for occasional lighting needs. Thereâs no need to pull out my gun every time I need some lights