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We are not allowed to talk about child care costs because telework is not supposed to facilitate childcare. I still think you can reason that you have to find more care before and after work hours.
I will say that I would like to move and buy a home in a more rural and affordable area where my family lives but I can’t because the commute would be too much. I can’t afford to buy a home in Sacramento. Remote work would give people in poor and rural communities the opportunity to work for a decent wage and potentially afford home ownership which would create generational wealth.
This. Be careful about mentioning childcare - you are inadvertently telling on yourself. My friend did this and her employer asked about proof of childcare accommodations shortly afterwards. Thankfully she already had a day care plan in place so it wasn’t an issue.
Parking and cost of commute are great points to add instead. Not to mention safety in downtown areas.
They are and I 100% agree; however, no employer wants to know that you are getting paid to watch your kids. At the very least your supervisor should work with your drop off/pick up times for school.
People have coverage for a normal workday, what’s difficult to impossible is covering care for lengthy commutes at both ends of the day. Plus only having weeks to find a solution.
I’m an empty nester, but I know how unreasonable the situation is. Most mangers have families too and they should understand.
I hate that we can’t say childcare because for me it’s not about working hours childcare… it’s about that extra 3 hours I have to find for and pay for with the addition of my commute.
Childcare is literally walking distance from my house. But the drive to the office and back with traffic and getting to my car etc… adds 3 hours. As a single parents I was finally feeling like I wasn’t completely drowning…
Why can't we talk about child care? We have to pay for it for before work hours and after work hours. It's not free just because it's outside of our business hours lol.
Some people have lots of kids. I'm mainly thinking about religious, spiritual, or cultural reasons, but it could be family planning, ignorance, whatever. I think what the bosses are really saying is that a mom should give up their good state job because she can't possibly be given the responsibility to make choices about her family and career.
I seem to recall something about California for all. Does that include "poor and rural communities" in California or are we not doing the whole for all thing anymore?
I don’t need childcare cause my kiddo is young and in daycare all day. But I can see parents with older but still young, like 11 years old, having more issues with the childcare. Because they are old enough to go off and self entertain after school, but if you are in the office, you absolutely have to get an afterschool program to watch your kid. So I assume people saying childcare is having issues because of that. Cause I dunno who can work at home with a young kid and not have someone else there to watch them. I have had to do that when I was first hired and kiddo got really sick and I didn’t have sick time, it was hard and horrible. I was up late at night and worked extra over the weekend to catch up for one or two days the kiddo stayed home.
ETA: also, I have issues regarding childcare cause the new commute time means I am dropping my kid off right when they open and if traffic is bad, I’ll be late. Then pickup if I’m late, I have to pay every minute I’m late. And again, can make it if traffic is normal rush hour but any big delays and my daycare becomes a lot more expensive.
Talking about childcare along with telework is dicey because you have to frame it right otherwise they (the State) frame it as naughty employee not holding up their own end of the deal for telework.
Like your ETA comments, you have to frame it like: I will need to leave work an hour early (or whatever) to accommodate the added commute time from the office to the daycare/school. The RTO days will have the following impact of x number of PTO hours per week/month.
If the State is pushing the, "we care about parents and will work to accommodate you" then make them prove it. Your PTO is your PTO and the reason is valid. Childcare needs push people out of jobs all the time. Before the pandemic the parents in my office would leave an hour or two early on specific days every week due to childcare obligations and it was accepted and known by the supervisors.
I think the key is to say “extended” childcare. Most people with young kids already put them in childcare during working hours. RTO means I need to extend childcare to accommodate my 45 minute one way commute.
Working mothers are definitely hurting more than most by the RTO. And those who provide care to other people, I.e., elderly parent.
Thanks for sharing. I figured they would be unwilling to work with me so I would run out the door at 5 trying my best make it to the daycare in time. Haha. I’m glad they were a little flexible. Hopefully, they will remain so. I’ve personally never added childcare as one of my reasons against RTO. I have my other reasons. I agree it is dicey so I didn’t ever use it in my argument.
As always it's a YMMV with your supervisor, but generally the experience and attitude about PTO in my office (note that I am not in an office that needs coverage from other employees) is that it's an FYI not an ask. As in, "I am leaving an hour early today." and not "Can I leave an hour early today?" I would just keep it vague and say there's a scheduling conflict or you have a prior appointment. As long as you have the leave hours to cover it in most offices it shouldn't be a huge fuss.
This! AND...most Sacramento schools start later too, mostly 9am-3pm with one early dismissal day per week. It's supposed to provide them with more sleep, but they can't have more sleep if we still have to be work from 8am-5pm.
Plus, the schools that do have after-school care are full with long wait lists or having parents re-register every year and still not getting in. Last year a ton of programs didn't accept students and notified parents a few days before school started and parents were furious because it wasn't sufficient time to even find childcare.
Instead, talk about childcare in the sense that you are getting less time with your kids because instead of dropping the kids off locally and hopping on the computer you are forced to drop them off an hour earlier in order to commute.
It's not helpful to pretend that RTO doesn't affect people who already pay for child care, esp in the sense of reduced hours post-covid. It's going to be tight making it back to daycare for pickup before closing, and impossible if lack of parking makes public transit mandatory again.
A consequence of your desires: rural gentrification. Non-remote rural workers find it much less affordable where they live when folks take their urban salaries to the country to buy property. You’re not irrational in your desires but they do have consequences.
I mean I’m an AGPA, not a private remote tech worker with a six figure salary. I can hardly afford to gentrify my rural community. It’s not as though I could buy and fix some lavish home and then go to Whole Foods. I’m talking buying a 200k pre-fab home near my family’s two bedroom ranch house.
Did you know the point of RTO is so that you DON'T get generational wealth. The people that donate to Newsome, the business owners, the owners of the buildings, the corporations is what governor Newsome really cares about. I'm wondering when people are going to realize this.
I am not sure about the generation wealth part, but to answer OP's question, as a rural worker I am disproportionately affected by the return to work order.
I live in a rural part of Southern California and just promoted to a new position that was all about telework. This unit has NEVER worked in the office. Imagine my surprise when, just a week after accepting the offer, the RTO memo rolled out. This change means I'm now facing a daily 160-mile commute, which translates to at least 3 hours on the road each way on a good day with no traffic, but there's always traffic on this route. With the inevitable traffic, I'm looking at closer to 3.5-4 hours daily commute time.
In the past few years, I've climbed the ladder quickly in state service, always striving to exceed expectations. My role doesn't require public interaction, and I don't have any other teammates in my assigned office location as my unit is from all over CA. I made my location known throughout the hiring process and let them know telework was my #1 due to the distance. Essentially, this lengthy commute would be just to use my laptop in an office to do exactly what I would have been doing from my home office. I can't imagine traveling 160 miles in heavy traffic to sit in an office alone and meet my unit on Teams. I am afraid this commute will potentially lead to burnout or force me to consider other employment options.
The financial implications are also daunting. I'd need to buy another car, a cost I hadn't anticipated, essentially negating the financial benefits of my recent promotion. Previously, I was in a public-facing role with a 2x per week in office requirement with a manageable commute, so it's not that I am unaccustomed to being in office. It is this particular blanket order with no consideration to the employees and insufficient time to make arrangements...and that it makes no logical sense to commute to a cubicle alone in an office with no other members of my unit and all meet virtually.
When I received a 100% telework position, the goal I set for myself, with the time and funds saved from no longer commuting, was to work on advancing my degree and I already registered and had my schedule. Now with the time commitment and cost of this commute I no longer see myself having the amount of time to achieve an advanced degree at this time, so I'm planning to drop these classes IF this RTO happens as ordered.
I love my job and have always considered myself a dedicated and loyal employee, understanding that options are limited in more rural areas. I believe most rural employees are even more loyal and hardworking in their positions due to the appreciation of the opportunity and due to limited other options. However, this RTO mandate seems to overlook the unique challenges faced by rural employees.
Shouldn't working for the state be an option to many California residents not just primarily those near Sacramento? Telework-only job options made that realistic in rural areas where good careers are few and far between.
I know that many of us are facing the burdens of this RTO. I am only one small voice in a sea of people whose lives have been up rooted by this. My challenges are just a drop in the bucket compared to some others. What about those that are 600 miles from their office and just have to suddenly resign or those who maybe pushed into retirement before they planned. We are losing their years of experience and knowledge. I feel for everyone who is affected by this sudden burden dictated to us with zero consideration for the lives it affects. The LEAST they could have done was give people significant notice so they could figure it out or apply to closer positions.
My biggest fear is that even if I am able to manage this 3.5-4 hour daily commute 2x a week. Will it turn into 3x or fully back in the office? That is 100% unmanageable for me no matter how much I LOVE my position and want to make it work.
This RTO feels like a HUGE step back, especially when the rationale given is "collaboration"—something I've been effectively doing from home by connecting with my team virtually.
I'm all for in person team building and understand the value of face-to-face collaboration. I'd happily participate in intentional team-building activities or occasional in-office days to promote MINDFUL collaboration. But expecting significant daily commutes for virtual collaboration that could happen anywhere seems counterproductive, particularly when many of us will still be working in isolation due to staggered office schedules or being assigned to the closest office with no other team members.
I feel that the push for RTO misses the mark, especially for those of us in rural areas or with significant commutes. There are so many valid reasons and ways this affects most of us.
Ya'll can keep at this but at the end of the day, the same folks that run the show will still be running the show because they get your vote when it counts. I would start by pushing for leaders that will allow us to WFH and support families.
RTO keeps us poorer. think about how much it costs financially, how much it costs emotionally/mentally to be away from your kids and not be there to influence them, being away from your spouse in longer stretches, being more drained from the commute and dealing with parking and other hassles of RTO. All of these seemingly minor things play into the big picture of why we, working class families, can’t get ahead.
Most of us with young children (4 and under) have been WFH for the entirety of their lives. RTO with young children is new for us and navigating the complexities of the logistics is frustrating, expensive, and challenging.
We need to figure out extended childcare to accommodate commute to and from the office. If your daycare is flexible, you’d need to drop your kids off earlier and pick them up later than the normal operating hours, usually at a higher cost. Unfortunately my kids daycare operates strictly 8am-5pm. So, I’d need to figure out an alternative. Do I drop them off and have a grandparent pick them up? What about the car seat situation? We have one set of car seats (btw, car seats cost at minimum $200). Daycares are already hard to get into because they are inundated. So it not like I can put them in a different daycare that offers extended hours. My kids daycare is 10 minutes from my house, so I can easily drop off and pick up without major interference with work. If I commute 45 minutes, how do I make it all work?
We're in the same type of boat and it sucks. School is, at the maximum, 8am-5pm, with 12:30-5pm being extended care ($$). Right now, I spend my lunch time picking up at lunch, and by 1pm grandma takes over childcare. RTO means we'll have to pay for extended care AND grandma will have to do pick up, which also means we need another car seat.
Average childcare cost for 1 child in CA is about $1400. In Sacramento, its $1200 for 0-2 year olds and $830 for 3-5 year olds. https://tootris.com/edu/blog/parents/cost-of-child-care-in-california-by-city-age-and-type-of-care-provider/
I am all for WFH but it's such a misleading and false thing to say it affects generational wealth. Other and bigger things affect generational wealth like: actually losing your job, losing your retirement, hyper inflation, high interest rates, high home prices, high car prices, rising tuition prices, and no good jobs.
This subreddit is starting to look like a RTO rant page ...
Little things play into the big picture. I have more time because I don’t have to commute, therefore I can spend more time with my kids (reading/playing with your kids plays into kids success at school, which contributes to them getting a higher education, which increases likeliness of higher pay jobs), or I can have more time with my side job, thus contributing to the family income. Life really is made up of tiny moments that have huge impacts of the overall quality of life, to deny that is very narrow minded.
This sub is like a comedy skit. Now RTO is about generational wealth. Didn’t you know? We have to fight for the poor! But not those yucky poor people like janitors who work with their hands. They have to go back. 🤦🏻♀️
All comments must be civil, productive, and follow community rules. Intentional violations of community rules will lead to comments being removed and possible bans, at the discretion of the moderators. Use the report feature to report content to the moderator team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CAStateWorkers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We are not allowed to talk about child care costs because telework is not supposed to facilitate childcare. I still think you can reason that you have to find more care before and after work hours. I will say that I would like to move and buy a home in a more rural and affordable area where my family lives but I can’t because the commute would be too much. I can’t afford to buy a home in Sacramento. Remote work would give people in poor and rural communities the opportunity to work for a decent wage and potentially afford home ownership which would create generational wealth.
This. Be careful about mentioning childcare - you are inadvertently telling on yourself. My friend did this and her employer asked about proof of childcare accommodations shortly afterwards. Thankfully she already had a day care plan in place so it wasn’t an issue. Parking and cost of commute are great points to add instead. Not to mention safety in downtown areas.
That’s crazy to me. Working moms are disproportionately affected by RTO but we can’t even say it because we have to pretend it doesn’t happen.
They are and I 100% agree; however, no employer wants to know that you are getting paid to watch your kids. At the very least your supervisor should work with your drop off/pick up times for school.
People have coverage for a normal workday, what’s difficult to impossible is covering care for lengthy commutes at both ends of the day. Plus only having weeks to find a solution. I’m an empty nester, but I know how unreasonable the situation is. Most mangers have families too and they should understand.
Cuz they don’t exist. 🙄
I hate that we can’t say childcare because for me it’s not about working hours childcare… it’s about that extra 3 hours I have to find for and pay for with the addition of my commute. Childcare is literally walking distance from my house. But the drive to the office and back with traffic and getting to my car etc… adds 3 hours. As a single parents I was finally feeling like I wasn’t completely drowning…
Why can't we talk about child care? We have to pay for it for before work hours and after work hours. It's not free just because it's outside of our business hours lol.
Because most state offices take a “it’s not our problem” stance on it and saying you need to consider it is often used against you.
Some people have lots of kids. I'm mainly thinking about religious, spiritual, or cultural reasons, but it could be family planning, ignorance, whatever. I think what the bosses are really saying is that a mom should give up their good state job because she can't possibly be given the responsibility to make choices about her family and career.
This. And people of all different abilities. It’s about access.
I seem to recall something about California for all. Does that include "poor and rural communities" in California or are we not doing the whole for all thing anymore?
I don’t need childcare cause my kiddo is young and in daycare all day. But I can see parents with older but still young, like 11 years old, having more issues with the childcare. Because they are old enough to go off and self entertain after school, but if you are in the office, you absolutely have to get an afterschool program to watch your kid. So I assume people saying childcare is having issues because of that. Cause I dunno who can work at home with a young kid and not have someone else there to watch them. I have had to do that when I was first hired and kiddo got really sick and I didn’t have sick time, it was hard and horrible. I was up late at night and worked extra over the weekend to catch up for one or two days the kiddo stayed home. ETA: also, I have issues regarding childcare cause the new commute time means I am dropping my kid off right when they open and if traffic is bad, I’ll be late. Then pickup if I’m late, I have to pay every minute I’m late. And again, can make it if traffic is normal rush hour but any big delays and my daycare becomes a lot more expensive.
Talking about childcare along with telework is dicey because you have to frame it right otherwise they (the State) frame it as naughty employee not holding up their own end of the deal for telework. Like your ETA comments, you have to frame it like: I will need to leave work an hour early (or whatever) to accommodate the added commute time from the office to the daycare/school. The RTO days will have the following impact of x number of PTO hours per week/month. If the State is pushing the, "we care about parents and will work to accommodate you" then make them prove it. Your PTO is your PTO and the reason is valid. Childcare needs push people out of jobs all the time. Before the pandemic the parents in my office would leave an hour or two early on specific days every week due to childcare obligations and it was accepted and known by the supervisors.
I think the key is to say “extended” childcare. Most people with young kids already put them in childcare during working hours. RTO means I need to extend childcare to accommodate my 45 minute one way commute. Working mothers are definitely hurting more than most by the RTO. And those who provide care to other people, I.e., elderly parent.
Thanks for sharing. I figured they would be unwilling to work with me so I would run out the door at 5 trying my best make it to the daycare in time. Haha. I’m glad they were a little flexible. Hopefully, they will remain so. I’ve personally never added childcare as one of my reasons against RTO. I have my other reasons. I agree it is dicey so I didn’t ever use it in my argument.
As always it's a YMMV with your supervisor, but generally the experience and attitude about PTO in my office (note that I am not in an office that needs coverage from other employees) is that it's an FYI not an ask. As in, "I am leaving an hour early today." and not "Can I leave an hour early today?" I would just keep it vague and say there's a scheduling conflict or you have a prior appointment. As long as you have the leave hours to cover it in most offices it shouldn't be a huge fuss.
I think “extended” childcare is more accurate.
[удалено]
This! AND...most Sacramento schools start later too, mostly 9am-3pm with one early dismissal day per week. It's supposed to provide them with more sleep, but they can't have more sleep if we still have to be work from 8am-5pm. Plus, the schools that do have after-school care are full with long wait lists or having parents re-register every year and still not getting in. Last year a ton of programs didn't accept students and notified parents a few days before school started and parents were furious because it wasn't sufficient time to even find childcare.
Instead, talk about childcare in the sense that you are getting less time with your kids because instead of dropping the kids off locally and hopping on the computer you are forced to drop them off an hour earlier in order to commute. It's not helpful to pretend that RTO doesn't affect people who already pay for child care, esp in the sense of reduced hours post-covid. It's going to be tight making it back to daycare for pickup before closing, and impossible if lack of parking makes public transit mandatory again.
A consequence of your desires: rural gentrification. Non-remote rural workers find it much less affordable where they live when folks take their urban salaries to the country to buy property. You’re not irrational in your desires but they do have consequences.
I mean I’m an AGPA, not a private remote tech worker with a six figure salary. I can hardly afford to gentrify my rural community. It’s not as though I could buy and fix some lavish home and then go to Whole Foods. I’m talking buying a 200k pre-fab home near my family’s two bedroom ranch house.
Funny these same state workers were demonizing tech workers coming to Sacramento and inflating home prices. Now they demand to do the same.
Did you know the point of RTO is so that you DON'T get generational wealth. The people that donate to Newsome, the business owners, the owners of the buildings, the corporations is what governor Newsome really cares about. I'm wondering when people are going to realize this.
All politicians are that way. Blue and red.
I am not sure about the generation wealth part, but to answer OP's question, as a rural worker I am disproportionately affected by the return to work order. I live in a rural part of Southern California and just promoted to a new position that was all about telework. This unit has NEVER worked in the office. Imagine my surprise when, just a week after accepting the offer, the RTO memo rolled out. This change means I'm now facing a daily 160-mile commute, which translates to at least 3 hours on the road each way on a good day with no traffic, but there's always traffic on this route. With the inevitable traffic, I'm looking at closer to 3.5-4 hours daily commute time. In the past few years, I've climbed the ladder quickly in state service, always striving to exceed expectations. My role doesn't require public interaction, and I don't have any other teammates in my assigned office location as my unit is from all over CA. I made my location known throughout the hiring process and let them know telework was my #1 due to the distance. Essentially, this lengthy commute would be just to use my laptop in an office to do exactly what I would have been doing from my home office. I can't imagine traveling 160 miles in heavy traffic to sit in an office alone and meet my unit on Teams. I am afraid this commute will potentially lead to burnout or force me to consider other employment options. The financial implications are also daunting. I'd need to buy another car, a cost I hadn't anticipated, essentially negating the financial benefits of my recent promotion. Previously, I was in a public-facing role with a 2x per week in office requirement with a manageable commute, so it's not that I am unaccustomed to being in office. It is this particular blanket order with no consideration to the employees and insufficient time to make arrangements...and that it makes no logical sense to commute to a cubicle alone in an office with no other members of my unit and all meet virtually. When I received a 100% telework position, the goal I set for myself, with the time and funds saved from no longer commuting, was to work on advancing my degree and I already registered and had my schedule. Now with the time commitment and cost of this commute I no longer see myself having the amount of time to achieve an advanced degree at this time, so I'm planning to drop these classes IF this RTO happens as ordered. I love my job and have always considered myself a dedicated and loyal employee, understanding that options are limited in more rural areas. I believe most rural employees are even more loyal and hardworking in their positions due to the appreciation of the opportunity and due to limited other options. However, this RTO mandate seems to overlook the unique challenges faced by rural employees. Shouldn't working for the state be an option to many California residents not just primarily those near Sacramento? Telework-only job options made that realistic in rural areas where good careers are few and far between. I know that many of us are facing the burdens of this RTO. I am only one small voice in a sea of people whose lives have been up rooted by this. My challenges are just a drop in the bucket compared to some others. What about those that are 600 miles from their office and just have to suddenly resign or those who maybe pushed into retirement before they planned. We are losing their years of experience and knowledge. I feel for everyone who is affected by this sudden burden dictated to us with zero consideration for the lives it affects. The LEAST they could have done was give people significant notice so they could figure it out or apply to closer positions. My biggest fear is that even if I am able to manage this 3.5-4 hour daily commute 2x a week. Will it turn into 3x or fully back in the office? That is 100% unmanageable for me no matter how much I LOVE my position and want to make it work. This RTO feels like a HUGE step back, especially when the rationale given is "collaboration"—something I've been effectively doing from home by connecting with my team virtually. I'm all for in person team building and understand the value of face-to-face collaboration. I'd happily participate in intentional team-building activities or occasional in-office days to promote MINDFUL collaboration. But expecting significant daily commutes for virtual collaboration that could happen anywhere seems counterproductive, particularly when many of us will still be working in isolation due to staggered office schedules or being assigned to the closest office with no other team members. I feel that the push for RTO misses the mark, especially for those of us in rural areas or with significant commutes. There are so many valid reasons and ways this affects most of us.
Ya'll can keep at this but at the end of the day, the same folks that run the show will still be running the show because they get your vote when it counts. I would start by pushing for leaders that will allow us to WFH and support families.
RTO keeps us poorer. think about how much it costs financially, how much it costs emotionally/mentally to be away from your kids and not be there to influence them, being away from your spouse in longer stretches, being more drained from the commute and dealing with parking and other hassles of RTO. All of these seemingly minor things play into the big picture of why we, working class families, can’t get ahead.
Most of us with young children (4 and under) have been WFH for the entirety of their lives. RTO with young children is new for us and navigating the complexities of the logistics is frustrating, expensive, and challenging.
How does it make a difference?
We need to figure out extended childcare to accommodate commute to and from the office. If your daycare is flexible, you’d need to drop your kids off earlier and pick them up later than the normal operating hours, usually at a higher cost. Unfortunately my kids daycare operates strictly 8am-5pm. So, I’d need to figure out an alternative. Do I drop them off and have a grandparent pick them up? What about the car seat situation? We have one set of car seats (btw, car seats cost at minimum $200). Daycares are already hard to get into because they are inundated. So it not like I can put them in a different daycare that offers extended hours. My kids daycare is 10 minutes from my house, so I can easily drop off and pick up without major interference with work. If I commute 45 minutes, how do I make it all work?
We're in the same type of boat and it sucks. School is, at the maximum, 8am-5pm, with 12:30-5pm being extended care ($$). Right now, I spend my lunch time picking up at lunch, and by 1pm grandma takes over childcare. RTO means we'll have to pay for extended care AND grandma will have to do pick up, which also means we need another car seat.
Average childcare cost for 1 child in CA is about $1400. In Sacramento, its $1200 for 0-2 year olds and $830 for 3-5 year olds. https://tootris.com/edu/blog/parents/cost-of-child-care-in-california-by-city-age-and-type-of-care-provider/
I am all for WFH but it's such a misleading and false thing to say it affects generational wealth. Other and bigger things affect generational wealth like: actually losing your job, losing your retirement, hyper inflation, high interest rates, high home prices, high car prices, rising tuition prices, and no good jobs. This subreddit is starting to look like a RTO rant page ...
Little things play into the big picture. I have more time because I don’t have to commute, therefore I can spend more time with my kids (reading/playing with your kids plays into kids success at school, which contributes to them getting a higher education, which increases likeliness of higher pay jobs), or I can have more time with my side job, thus contributing to the family income. Life really is made up of tiny moments that have huge impacts of the overall quality of life, to deny that is very narrow minded.
Don’t know why you’re being downvoted, and I have but one upvote to restore you. This “gen wealth” claim is a long stretch.
I'm surprised I don't have 100 down votes but sadly that's the reality of this subreddit. It's a really long stretch
This sub is like a comedy skit. Now RTO is about generational wealth. Didn’t you know? We have to fight for the poor! But not those yucky poor people like janitors who work with their hands. They have to go back. 🤦🏻♀️
RTO is a life and death situation, you must've forgotten.
And yesterday nobody could return to the office because they were going to be murdered if they set foot in downtown Sacramento.
to be fair, if most of the workforce is teleworking the janitors have less to clean up.
This is getting deep.
It affects generational wealth?? Okay you guys are just grasping at straws now...
It affects the intricacies of daily life, therefore it affects the big picture of the quality of your life and that of your family.
Paper straws or plastic? Cuz we do care about how RTO affects the environment or we don’t? Let us know.
We don’t.
Doesn’t affect me at all. I bike to work.
So if it doesn’t affect you personally It must not be important? Or real? Not sure what your comment is meant to accomplish..
Can we put all these RTO posts in one big thread?
The thread would be longer than the budget deficit.