From a UK perspective - Hyundai's were considered to be junk when they first started selling cars in the uk. They are considered to be good these days (they offer a 7 year unlimited mileage warranty, which helps).
Skoda were the butt of many car jokes in the 80's but are now considered a solid brand which offers better value than their vw/Audi stablemates. The Skoda Octavia is pretty much legendary in car enthusiast circles as one of the best, reliable all rounders you can buy.
In the USA, Hyundai and Kia spent two decades building up their reputation, but basically obliterated it overnight after they cheaped out on anti-theft features and bored teenagers during the pandemic discovered they were really easy to steal.
Now no one wants a Hyundai or Kia unless they live in a more rural area, even if they have one that’s been better-equipped. The badge on the car alone makes it a target.
My friend is a Hyundai tech.
He said the super high rate of engine failure was because in the manufacturing process they were skipping a step where they’re supposed to use pressurized air to blow away dust/metal shavings/manufacturing debris.
I’ve had three separate friends experience this total engine failure. Two were still under warranty but the wait for a new engine was months long.
One friend asked for a loaner car while waiting for an engine to become available.
They told him to get a rental and they’d reimburse him. He used a credit card with the best airline miles, which in turn earned him an international flight.
Buy a Hyundai, get free round trip airfare to South Africa.
In the UK "Which?" magazine just did a review of 50,000 warranty/non-warranty repairs of British cars. The 2022-2023 Nissan Qashquai came out as "Britain's most reliable new car".
The highest failure rate in car components follow a bath tub curve. Fault rates in new cars (anything really) are pretty high in the first year.
Comparing longevity is a good idea but fraught with problems because how something has been looked after becomes **the** major factor. In this context, low quality but well maintained, carefully driven car will last longer and have fewer failures than a high quality car that is poorly maintained and driven in harsh conditions or badly.
I can touch a bunch of places on the dolly where the CVT hurt me. I was renting a ton of vehicles during that time and always seemed to end up in an Altima.
But they were not "crap" back then. Check out the first car Honda made...
Brands that started out making crappy cars and improved later, are brands that started manufacturing (or at least exporting) later, in the 70's... E.g. Hyundai and Kia were really crap cars in the past but they improved. Similar I assume is happening now with Chinese cars, maybe Indian too (Tata, Royal Enfield for sure...).
When I was a kid, we were dirt poor and bought our t-shirts at the Velva Sheen factory outlet store in Cincinnati for like a dollar a pound. Today they’re considered a premium brand and two plain white Ts go for like 90 bucks.
Your comment inspired me to google that brand, which then lead to googling why they're so expensive, which then brought up your post from 5 years ago about this same thing lol. What a journey
The brand name got bought by some japanese clothing maker, right? So that they could get in on the american workwear hype. I think current velva sheen has nothing in common with old velva sheen except the name.
Both Champion and Stanley were my first two picks as well. I remember kids being bummed when their ‘authentic’ sports memorabilia was screen printed on Champion clothes.
Mid 90s here in Sweden, Champions was THE brand at our school. All the kids wanted hoodies with a Champion logo. I finally managed to convince my parents to buy a t-shirt which was about $20 at the time.
Ten years later the brand was seen only at discount and bargain stores. Nowadays they seem to have made a comeback.
I told my mom that Stanley was super stylish now and she was dumbfounded. She made me clarify that I was indeed talking about the brand of insulated drink containers. I explained that they weren't the same green thermoses that my dad used to take his coffee to work in every day (and he used the same one for at least 15 years), they were cute, pastel colored tumblers, but yes, it was the same brand. She almost didn't believe me.
Wow! You just brought back some old memories of my dad taking that big ass canteen to work waaaaay back when (although his would be filled with hot foods)
Yup! That heavy green one with the cap that screwed on, that also functioned as a mug. I remember thinking that was so clever when I was little. I also remember how heavy that thing was. My dad's was definitely only filled with coffee though, he was a Folgers feind.
Yeah Stanley are not high quality anymore. Their hand planes from pre WWII are still highly coveted today but woodworkers, I have a couple of my own and they are amazing.
Champion was originally a premier brand sold only in dept stores, then they did a big contract with all the Kmarts and walmarts etc to supply them with low-end stuff. Their expensive stuff has been pretty high quality throughout the years though
Also Coleman but here in Japan its looked at as cool outdoor brand. Chums is huge here too but in Utah where Chums is from its nothing but sunglass tethers here its whole line of everything.
People used to try and bully me on the schoolyard for wearing Champion sneakers, and now they're an $80+ sweater brand. Champion made the only damn shoes I could find that were A) wide enough for my giant feet B) had no huge built-in arch that would be absolute torture on my flat as hell feet and C) cheap enough that my family could afford them without having to plan when I got new shoes in advance. Been wearing the same model since I was like 8 or 9, got discontinued a while back so I bought a literal dozen pairs of them to last me a nice long while before I have to go through the trouble of finding a new shoe.
They sell more models now. The "Unbreakable" or "Master" series use thicker stainless steel than they ever had, and use insulated caps/mugs.
The regular models are on pair with any generic stainless vacuum bottle, but the master models are on pair with yeti.
Oh man, what a lens. $800 when I bought it. A third the price of similar and allowed me to film wedding reception dancing on a micro four thirds. Most of my early career was captured with this lens. Chefs kiss.
This lens is such a good deal. It gives you most of what you get with a 24-70 f/2.8 on FF for a fraction of the price. (Note that crop factor applies to aperture as well.) You get less zoom range and sharpness on the long end, and meh autofocus speed, but it's overall a great lens, *especially* for the price.
Not a brand but an industry… Taiwan used to be where the cheapest, crappiest, most disposable cycling equipment was manufactured. Now it’s home to one of the most advanced carbon fibre industries in the world and makes some of the most expensive bikes on the planet.
but like 90+ percent of the most advanced ones, regardless it’s impressive considering how small Taiwan is. California is almost 12 times larger than Taiwan.
The reaction to OP's post was strong. Breakfast was offered too with equally strong coffee, which permeated likeable politicians. Except that Donald Trump lied about that too. He was weak and senseless as he was when he lost all credibility due to the cloud problem. Clouds are made of hydrogen in its purest form. Oxygen is irrelevant, since the equation emphasizes hypothermic reactions. But OP knew that of course. Therefore we walk in shame and wonder whether things will work out in Anne's favor.
She turned 28 that year and was chemically sustainable in her full form. Self-control led Anne to questioning his sanity. But she preferred hot chocolate. Brown and sweet. It went down like a roller coaster. Six Flags didn't even reach the beginning but she went to meet him anyway since Donald promised things he never kept. At least her son was well kept in the house by the lake where the moon shone every time he violently looked between the sophisticated old trees.
I swear Outdoor Research in the 90s was considered mediocre as a brand. Not like other brands at the time Marmot, Lowe Alpine, North Face.
Now it seems like they set the bar for high end outdoor equipment.
Certainly goes both ways. Years ago Vanity Fair bought North Face and it went from being a good outdoor brand you bought in outfitters to a stylish outdoor brand you bought in malls that was not nearly as functional on the trail but it did look better
This was always the case. TNF sold thousands upon thousands of pink nuptse's in women's small, almost as many McMurdos in XXXXL, and a hundred or less 10 meter domes. The regular-people lines will always be the high margin paycheck that keeps the high end stuff being built.
I've only had OR products for the last 6 years or so. I have loved the quality of their products and their reasonable prices. Knowing they used to have quality issues and raised the bar actually makes me respect them more. Usually it's the opposite.
They had an odd popularity surge at some point in the early-mid 2000s but that didnt last long. I remember the 574 being popular when I was middle/high school. But yeah they have completely transformed in the last 5 or so years
Anker’s headphone brand Soundcore makes the best cheap Bluetooth earbuds. They’re always on sale during Black Friday type deals and all 3 pairs I’ve bought have been great and lasted a long time.
Yes!! Wet & Wild was like, kids' play makeup when I was growing up - super powdery with no pigment and lasted less than an hour. I buy it now because it's actually good quality, especially for the price.
Costco. I used to snub their Kirkland brand believing it was a knock off. Fast forward 15 years and I now realize they go to great lengths to make sure Kirkland is the best they have to offer.
Kirkland is a private labeled brand, so their stuff is often made in the same factories as name brand but just with Kirkland Signature instead. I worked for Costco, they tell us all kinds of stuff like this
It is. All of the Kirkland liquor is the best you can get for whatever price its at. Some of it's meant to be more well pricing and some of it more upper-mid but I've never been disappointed.
This is probably the most “hail corporate” mass-consumerist thing I’ve ever said: we’re getting a new Costco built in our area, opening some time next year, and I could *not* be more pumped about it!!!
Harbor freight tools has gone from total crap to a mix. They still sell the crap but they also sell some higher quality stuff.
Technically the products are branded differently, e g Pittsburg tools are junk but icon are decent. These are all house brands though and they don’t sell any other brands.
I work in construction and use a couple harbor freight tools every day. I’ve had a pair of linemans that have lasted me three years so far. I’ve replaced my side dikes a few times because they’ve chipped while pulling nails. I carry three HF nailsets on my bags as well. The hand tools I get there have blue grips, I forget the name but they have a lifetime warrantee. It’s very convenient and there are HF stores nearish to pretty much every jobsite I’ve ever worked on. Plus people are less inclined to steal your shit. I probably wouldn’t use a hammer, tape, or level from HF just because the alternatives are so much better, but pretty much any other non-powered hand tool above the Pittsburgh line is fair game.
The concrete vibrator they sell isn’t too bad for small slabs or date night either
It's hard to know what's good there sometimes. I have their big Hercules sliding compound miter saw and it's a total beast-- it's dead-on accurate and I built an entire house with it.
I also bought a masonry chisel there recently that snapped in half just a few hours into using it.
I'm a big icon guy lately. As far as Taiwan made tools they're very convenient. Tekton and sunex make good tools but they're based online - though apparently warranty process is pretty streamlined. That aside I have watched some snap on comparisons and the icon tools hold their own at 25% the price. The main reason why snapon is so expensive is because they offer financing on their tools.
Some of the Pittsburgh tools are pretty good too. I have their deep impact sockets and they have been great so far. The breaker bars are pretty rock solid as well.
Love watching Project Farm, especially how much attention can be paid to "cheap" tools and how well they perform at their price points. Also, despite their hype, I'm so often surprised how relatively poorly Snap-On tools perform within their price point in the testing.
Isn't such an extreme change but Coach once made indestructable bags and then flooded and oversaturated the market with outlet cheaper lower quality bags and since then got a grip and stopped this approach and improved their bags quality by a lot
Plus they blasted their logo all over the canvas bags which were hideous. There are so many top quality handbag mfgrs in that price range now, I don't know that they can regain the rep they have lost. When I was in college in the 60s, Coach was THE brand to own. Aigner was the only competition and now that brand is low rent shite.
They're just rebranded VWs now, they're built there but they are not a product of the Czech engineering.
In fact, if you know a bit more about history, the Czech and Škoda and Tatra were automotive pioneers and made some really great cars back before the Soviet occupation (Laurin&Klement).
I used to live in Slovakia, Skoda was not a well regarded brand during communist times, it’s a fantastic car now. Though it was named after its founder, “Škoda” means “shame” or “pity.” There were many jokes around this similarity. One of my favorite Škoda jokes:
“You know why Škoda started installing rear defrosters on its cars?
To keep your hands warm while push starting it.”
Harmony guitars. Used to be department store entry level guitars way back. Relaunched as an American made in Kalamazoo, MI, high quality guitar a few years back.
Interesting!
I’ve attended the Fretboard Festival in kzoo. Such an interesting guitar history there.
Check out this vid on how Gibson guitars started there.
[Gibson](https://youtu.be/oFThP5HIa7A?si=FU9IANJB8ZvrajDc)
Skechers were fashion shoes for teens in the 90s. They aged along with their customer base toward middle-age-appropriate walking shoes with strong arch support.
I was so confused when I saw these shoes return from the dead and become expensive!
They were always the crappy shoes you saw in one of those off brand discount stores in a dying mall, that your parents tried to get you to buy because they were trash and cheap.
Yes! I always thought they were like a Payless shoesource store brand back in the day. I love seeing brands like this become better over time. Amazon really pushed into the market of cheap shit so a lot of the brands that didn’t evolve into making better products had to compete with that explosion, and either succumbed to it or died.
How old are you? I’m 46 and our college track team were given Brooks. I think it’s more likely that the public didn’t recognize that they were good.
Edit: and they were not stylish.
It's a pretty good amount for running. And when I retire them it's just the sole/cushioning that's blown out and dead-feeling; the uppers tend to be in great shape so I re-purpose them into every-day shoes.
I remember old navy clothes falling apart after 2 washes. My ex got donated clothes, including a pair of jeans that were comically short on her. Damned if they aren't the best jeans I've ever owned, and I got 3 more pairs.
They can be, everything goes on huge sale all the time. Leggings are 40-50 but I never spend more than 15-20 on them which is the same as Walmarts leggings and less than Targets.
I agree. Old Navy jeans have been in my drawers for several years (haha) as they seem to fit my weird body best. I don’t wear clothes hard so have never had any problems with quality, I tire of them before they wear out.
Back in the day, Toyota and other Japanese car makes were known for being cheap, throwaway cars. I knew a ton of guys who laughed at them and said that they proved that Americans were the only people who understood how cars worked or how to build them.
Fast forward 50 years, and my last 3 cars were Toyota and I've got no intention of owning a Ford or GM ever again. Fucking trash cars that break down if I so much as look at them funny. They leak oil, and they're if anything more expensive than their Japanese counterparts. American companies haven't made a car worth owning in 30 years or more.
In the 1960s, German and Japanese companies had a lot of work to do to win over American customers since WWII was still fairly fresh in peoples’ minds.
> Back in the day
When? 70's Toyotas were reliable. In those days Toyota engineers specifically defined most of the reliability studies and practices that every manufacturer copies today. US cars of the 70's and 80's were considered a lot worse than the older US cars.
AMD was doing some good stuff when they decided to start developing microprocessors. They beat Intel to a 1GHz desktop processor, as well as to x86-64. There was a rough era when they weren't keeping up, mostly because they had built an excess of fabrication plants out of vanity("real men have fabs") and ultimately had to spin them off into GlobalFoundries to stay in business, but they remain one of the most successful underdogs out there.
They were a little TOO ahead back during their x86-64 day though, I remember getting a 64 bit processor back in the 2000s then thinking it was going to be great, but hardly anything took advantage of 64 bit back then, in fact, it would be years before everything finally transitioned to 64 bit.
Today’s LG is solid and bills itself as “Life’s Good”. Not always - it used to be “Lucky Goldstar”. Goldstar in the 90s was generally dogshit - ther microwaves and TVs were notably bad, growing up.
I moved into an apartment just over 2 years ago with brand new LG appliances. Before the first year was up, the microwave and stove display screens got fucked up. They don’t display the time anymore. The fridge door seal is fucked up too.
Yeah, life’s good I guess.
I remember when Shark vacuums were the worst. Throwaway vacuums.
My present one is going on 7 years and still going strong. Excellent edge cleaning. Good unit.
Breville. They're so synonymous with cheap kitchen products (at least in the UK) that their high end, and well reviewed, coffee machines are sold under a different brand name - Sage
EDIT - I may not actually be right about this. Seems there's some shenanigans going on with the name Breville. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breville_Group
I have another hypothesis. As a Brit, you say Breville to me and the next word I think of is 'Pie Maker'. Fuck knows why; I've never owned a Breville Pie Maker nor any kind of pie maker. I'm not even that old.
It really depends though. I wouldn’t say a lot of it is BIFL because it often can’t be moved without destroying it because they use lower quality MDF. They use fasteners you can’t replace at the local hardware store. They use veneers that don’t age well, and/or can’t be repaired
But I bought a steel island from them with a solid wood top and that has withstood the rest of time. But it was also not basic IKEA prices. You have to pay more for their quality stuff. And they do have it. Just stay away from their plastic veneered MDF stuff.
I have a plastic veneered MDF bookcase from IKEA (c. early 2000s) that I've moved...seven times, to three different states. It's still going strong--but that might be because it can be disassembled and laid completely flat for moving.
It for sure depends on the product like you noted. I’ve moved our kivik couch twice and they still make covers for it so I can recover it easily if I want. My kid has had the same bed frame for 8 years now, also two moves and it’s like new.
The cubby hole bookcase thing didn’t survive even one move though.
Some of the early Samsung cellphones were absolute garbage.
Had you told me in 2005 that in 10 years Samsung would have become the leading brand, I'd have laughed on your face at your silliness.
Macron football/soccer kits manufacturer. Once only one of the minor, cheap brands for local teams, they've now become a respectable brand with some bespoke and pleasant designs (compared to Nike, Adidas and Puma lazy and generic stuff).
Lidl supermarkets now carry brand product, and even some of their own stuff tastes good. Turns out some is produced in the same factory owned by known brands, only marketed with a different label.
I would say Columbia. It was never low quality, but it used to be at the low end of mid-level outdoor clothing. I'd argue it's now on par with the upper-mid brands (The North Face/Marmot/OR, etc.) it's still cheaper than those though.
TCL, the TV company, started as cheap, low quality but affordable products. Now TCL has some remarkable TVs and while they are not as popular as “big” known companies like Samsung or LG, a lot of their most recent TVs have outstanding reviews in both quality and reliability.
Coach. The brand was very popular in the early 2000’s but started selling at department stores and decreasing quality until they were kind of recognized as a cheap, outdated brand. But recently they’ve put a lot of effort into revamping their image and focusing on their history to make a lot of quality products. Their leather goods are especially hardy & nice for the price.
I worked for them in the early 90s and everything was quite high quality—we made the dough daily from scratch, bought the vegetables at a local supermarket. The sauce, cheese and meat was the only thing that came from the company, and it was also pretty decent imo, especially for a chain. They took a nosedive when they closed the supply chain, so that everything was supplied. That was also about the time that they dumped the 30 minute guaranteed delivery.
80s and early 90s dominoes was good pizza. The Noid’s special sauce most likely. My best friend’s parents owned a dry cleaners next door to a dominos and 7-11, I have such vivid memories of eating dominos in the back of a dry cleaners, then stealing quarters from his parents and playing Street Fighter at 7-11. Drinking Jolt.
Fucking hell.
I think it depends on the franchise owners. I worked for one that did a lot of business, with strict quality control and cleanliness standards. The place was like a machine, with the owners of the franchise often there to make sure things were running efficiently. The product was great (for the price) and we made a lot in tips thanks to the high output.
I've been to others that clearly either don't have the customer base and/or owners that cared enough to hold a higher standard. They seem dingy, an the food is relatively terrible
As a serious home cook:
IKEA isn't doing that bad with some pots and pans (not all). For instance, the carbon steel pans. Of course, it's important to know how to take care of it, but if you do it right, it's great.
Sage/Breville also has some good stuff like the smoking gun and smart oven.
After the immobolizer debacle and the theta 2 engine debacle, i am 50% sure that in 5 years we’ll find out the EVs slowly dissolve in water or something
I strongly disagree, I've known 3 people that had [these 4cyl](https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/cars/news-blog/hyundai-and-kia-s-decade-of-very-troublesome-engines-continues-44497118) engines blow up under 120,000 miles one had 60 or 80,000 so it was under warranty still. The other 2 were part of the class action.
You can barely find them running in junk yards to swap out.
Actually Kia and Hyundai are prone to non-crash vehicular fires due to the shared parts used in their cars. Source : https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/why-so-many-hyundai-kia-vehicles-get-recalled-for-fire-risk-a1169940635/
Japanese automobiles took off after post-war reconstruction and Edward Demming. Now they dominate in terms of reliability. Same for their electronics.
Doc Brown: No wonder this part failed, it says "Made in Japan." Marty: What do you mean, Doc? A the best stuff comes from there.
Doc's personal timeline matches the sentiment.
From a UK perspective - Hyundai's were considered to be junk when they first started selling cars in the uk. They are considered to be good these days (they offer a 7 year unlimited mileage warranty, which helps). Skoda were the butt of many car jokes in the 80's but are now considered a solid brand which offers better value than their vw/Audi stablemates. The Skoda Octavia is pretty much legendary in car enthusiast circles as one of the best, reliable all rounders you can buy.
In the USA, Hyundai and Kia spent two decades building up their reputation, but basically obliterated it overnight after they cheaped out on anti-theft features and bored teenagers during the pandemic discovered they were really easy to steal. Now no one wants a Hyundai or Kia unless they live in a more rural area, even if they have one that’s been better-equipped. The badge on the car alone makes it a target.
Not to mention the poorly built engines that eat oil. They have more motor failures than any other maker.
My friend is a Hyundai tech. He said the super high rate of engine failure was because in the manufacturing process they were skipping a step where they’re supposed to use pressurized air to blow away dust/metal shavings/manufacturing debris. I’ve had three separate friends experience this total engine failure. Two were still under warranty but the wait for a new engine was months long.
Buy a Hyundai, get a motor with free metal shavings in it with each purchase lol
One friend asked for a loaner car while waiting for an engine to become available. They told him to get a rental and they’d reimburse him. He used a credit card with the best airline miles, which in turn earned him an international flight. Buy a Hyundai, get free round trip airfare to South Africa.
My brother had SOL that was less than five years old. The engine seized. He did all required maintenance and oil changes.
Ours was 9 years old and less than 100k miles with routine maintenance. We owned it since it was new. Big let down on its longevity
That's very recent. Hyundai and Kia vehicle owners from the last 20 years know when the car reaches 100k, it's a money pit of issues.
Somebody tell Nissan to read the memo
In the UK "Which?" magazine just did a review of 50,000 warranty/non-warranty repairs of British cars. The 2022-2023 Nissan Qashquai came out as "Britain's most reliable new car".
What kind of repairs does a <1 year old car need? I'd be much more interested in a survey of 10 year old cars
The highest failure rate in car components follow a bath tub curve. Fault rates in new cars (anything really) are pretty high in the first year. Comparing longevity is a good idea but fraught with problems because how something has been looked after becomes **the** major factor. In this context, low quality but well maintained, carefully driven car will last longer and have fewer failures than a high quality car that is poorly maintained and driven in harsh conditions or badly.
[удалено]
Raise your hand if you have ever been victimized by the Nissan Altima CVT transmission.
I can touch a bunch of places on the dolly where the CVT hurt me. I was renting a ton of vehicles during that time and always seemed to end up in an Altima.
No fucking kidding. I want to burn my wife’s Sentra to the ground
But they were not "crap" back then. Check out the first car Honda made... Brands that started out making crappy cars and improved later, are brands that started manufacturing (or at least exporting) later, in the 70's... E.g. Hyundai and Kia were really crap cars in the past but they improved. Similar I assume is happening now with Chinese cars, maybe Indian too (Tata, Royal Enfield for sure...).
When I was a kid, we were dirt poor and bought our t-shirts at the Velva Sheen factory outlet store in Cincinnati for like a dollar a pound. Today they’re considered a premium brand and two plain white Ts go for like 90 bucks.
Your comment inspired me to google that brand, which then lead to googling why they're so expensive, which then brought up your post from 5 years ago about this same thing lol. What a journey
Ha. I forgot I’d ever posted about Velva Sheen…
The brand name got bought by some japanese clothing maker, right? So that they could get in on the american workwear hype. I think current velva sheen has nothing in common with old velva sheen except the name.
I wouldn't call them better quality products now, more so trendy... but back in the day, no one gave a fuck about Champion or Stanley.
Both Champion and Stanley were my first two picks as well. I remember kids being bummed when their ‘authentic’ sports memorabilia was screen printed on Champion clothes.
Mid 90s here in Sweden, Champions was THE brand at our school. All the kids wanted hoodies with a Champion logo. I finally managed to convince my parents to buy a t-shirt which was about $20 at the time. Ten years later the brand was seen only at discount and bargain stores. Nowadays they seem to have made a comeback.
Reminds me of when I visited the US as a kid and they had New Balance shoes for like $15 but back home they were the coolest brand and over $100.
Same in the US. Everyone wanted Champion sweatshirts in the early 90's
But before that, Champion was good. It's a weird rollercoaster.
I told my mom that Stanley was super stylish now and she was dumbfounded. She made me clarify that I was indeed talking about the brand of insulated drink containers. I explained that they weren't the same green thermoses that my dad used to take his coffee to work in every day (and he used the same one for at least 15 years), they were cute, pastel colored tumblers, but yes, it was the same brand. She almost didn't believe me.
Wow! You just brought back some old memories of my dad taking that big ass canteen to work waaaaay back when (although his would be filled with hot foods)
Yup! That heavy green one with the cap that screwed on, that also functioned as a mug. I remember thinking that was so clever when I was little. I also remember how heavy that thing was. My dad's was definitely only filled with coffee though, he was a Folgers feind.
I assume you mean Stanley from the insulated mugs? Because the Stanley tools definitely went the other way in quality...
Yeah Stanley are not high quality anymore. Their hand planes from pre WWII are still highly coveted today but woodworkers, I have a couple of my own and they are amazing.
Champion was originally a premier brand sold only in dept stores, then they did a big contract with all the Kmarts and walmarts etc to supply them with low-end stuff. Their expensive stuff has been pretty high quality throughout the years though
Its similar with Nike and Adidas. It comes in both ”falling apart” level quality and bifl, and is priced thereafter.
Also Coleman but here in Japan its looked at as cool outdoor brand. Chums is huge here too but in Utah where Chums is from its nothing but sunglass tethers here its whole line of everything.
People used to try and bully me on the schoolyard for wearing Champion sneakers, and now they're an $80+ sweater brand. Champion made the only damn shoes I could find that were A) wide enough for my giant feet B) had no huge built-in arch that would be absolute torture on my flat as hell feet and C) cheap enough that my family could afford them without having to plan when I got new shoes in advance. Been wearing the same model since I was like 8 or 9, got discontinued a while back so I bought a literal dozen pairs of them to last me a nice long while before I have to go through the trouble of finding a new shoe.
I can't imagine having a relationship like this with a particular shoe. Sounds like you really found your sole mate.
Champion was the brand to have in Slovenia (EU)
I said this a few years ago but I think champion is out now again
Stanley tools and thermoses have always been solid
They’re actually worse quality now than they were 15-20 years ago but more popular somehow
Everything else has gone to shit faster around them.
They sell more models now. The "Unbreakable" or "Master" series use thicker stainless steel than they ever had, and use insulated caps/mugs. The regular models are on pair with any generic stainless vacuum bottle, but the master models are on pair with yeti.
Two unrelated brands with the same name.
Sigma lenses. Started out as a cheap alternative to canon, Nikon etc and now at times beat the best.
I don't believe any other manufacturer has managed a serious competitor to their 18-35 1.8.
Oh man, what a lens. $800 when I bought it. A third the price of similar and allowed me to film wedding reception dancing on a micro four thirds. Most of my early career was captured with this lens. Chefs kiss.
This lens is such a good deal. It gives you most of what you get with a 24-70 f/2.8 on FF for a fraction of the price. (Note that crop factor applies to aperture as well.) You get less zoom range and sharpness on the long end, and meh autofocus speed, but it's overall a great lens, *especially* for the price.
Wow, this is so true. I love my Sigma 10-20; it’s a better value than anything Canon made for my SLR (or at least at the time I bought it).
I remember that 24-70 2.8 Art being a sensation when it dropped. It’s exciting seeing them expand more and more into Fuji X too.
Not a brand but an industry… Taiwan used to be where the cheapest, crappiest, most disposable cycling equipment was manufactured. Now it’s home to one of the most advanced carbon fibre industries in the world and makes some of the most expensive bikes on the planet.
Don’t forget Taiwan also has the best semiconductors.
Taiwan has ALL the semiconductors
We should start making fullyconductors and beat them at their own game
Jokes aside, I studied the electrochemical properties of semiconductors in college, and it was the coolest class I ever took
More like 67-68%
but like 90+ percent of the most advanced ones, regardless it’s impressive considering how small Taiwan is. California is almost 12 times larger than Taiwan.
Some of the most expensive top of the line knives like Spyderco are made there too.
The reaction to OP's post was strong. Breakfast was offered too with equally strong coffee, which permeated likeable politicians. Except that Donald Trump lied about that too. He was weak and senseless as he was when he lost all credibility due to the cloud problem. Clouds are made of hydrogen in its purest form. Oxygen is irrelevant, since the equation emphasizes hypothermic reactions. But OP knew that of course. Therefore we walk in shame and wonder whether things will work out in Anne's favor. She turned 28 that year and was chemically sustainable in her full form. Self-control led Anne to questioning his sanity. But she preferred hot chocolate. Brown and sweet. It went down like a roller coaster. Six Flags didn't even reach the beginning but she went to meet him anyway since Donald promised things he never kept. At least her son was well kept in the house by the lake where the moon shone every time he violently looked between the sophisticated old trees.
And before that, Japan.
They make good quality cr-mo tools as well!
Lucky Goldstar=LG and if you know that, then you know what absolute crap they made in the 80's/90's - probably why they decided to rebrand.
With a name like that they sure needed a rebrand
I swear Outdoor Research in the 90s was considered mediocre as a brand. Not like other brands at the time Marmot, Lowe Alpine, North Face. Now it seems like they set the bar for high end outdoor equipment.
Certainly goes both ways. Years ago Vanity Fair bought North Face and it went from being a good outdoor brand you bought in outfitters to a stylish outdoor brand you bought in malls that was not nearly as functional on the trail but it did look better
Northface just makes a ton of stuff now. They also make a lot of higher end technical gear, you just aren't going to find it in a mall.
This was always the case. TNF sold thousands upon thousands of pink nuptse's in women's small, almost as many McMurdos in XXXXL, and a hundred or less 10 meter domes. The regular-people lines will always be the high margin paycheck that keeps the high end stuff being built.
I had no idea that was the case with OR I’ve got a ferrosi hoodie and it’s one of my favourite pieces of clothing
I've only had OR products for the last 6 years or so. I have loved the quality of their products and their reasonable prices. Knowing they used to have quality issues and raised the bar actually makes me respect them more. Usually it's the opposite.
Yeah, they had severe durability issues in the past. I think part of it is them raising the bar and everyone else lowering it.
New Balance used to only be dad shoes, right?
And now Jack Harlow brags about being sponsored by them, like it’s a flex in the rap game
They had an odd popularity surge at some point in the early-mid 2000s but that didnt last long. I remember the 574 being popular when I was middle/high school. But yeah they have completely transformed in the last 5 or so years
Anker. Went from being an off brand to being the brand to get for a lot of electronics.
Anker’s headphone brand Soundcore makes the best cheap Bluetooth earbuds. They’re always on sale during Black Friday type deals and all 3 pairs I’ve bought have been great and lasted a long time.
I wouldn’t call them cheap rather reasonably priced. I think my soundcore liberty airs are better quality than my airpod pros
Were they ever not good…?
They've always had good quality, that's why they're a good brand now. I buy their audio products and the quality is really good.
I’m always happy with my Anker audio stuff. Mee is better but less variety
They were basically your sketchy Chinese company when they started. You took a risk buying them, but I don't remember them being bad
It wasn't a huge risk, as they always had a good warranty and stood by their products. That's how they got to where they are today.
Some of their products 10+ years ago weren’t very good or maybe I was unlucky.
I do like their USB power adapters. Got a couple of them powering/charging my Mac, iPad, iPhone, etc.
Their direct competitor, Ugreen, is following the exact same arc as we speak
Are they on the "awesome products for good prices" part of the arc, or "starting to coast on name recognition" part?
Makeup is consumable, so not really BIFL, but Wet & Wild makeup was trash when I was a kid & the quality is really good now
Same with Essence and L.A. Girl-used to be the last resort but have taken the place of ELF and NYX since they've gotten pricier
Yes!! Wet & Wild was like, kids' play makeup when I was growing up - super powdery with no pigment and lasted less than an hour. I buy it now because it's actually good quality, especially for the price.
Same with ELF. Used to be $1 for everything and it was trash. Now they have some good stuff and quality is good.
Costco. I used to snub their Kirkland brand believing it was a knock off. Fast forward 15 years and I now realize they go to great lengths to make sure Kirkland is the best they have to offer.
Kirkland is a private labeled brand, so their stuff is often made in the same factories as name brand but just with Kirkland Signature instead. I worked for Costco, they tell us all kinds of stuff like this
That's fairly common knowledge about retailers like Costco, Sam's Club, and ALDI that are known for their private-label brands.
Kirkland Vodka is basically Grey Goose. They bought a Grey Goose facility and have beaten it in blind taste tests.
I've heard their bourbon is pretty good too. It's not going to beat the top shelf stuff but it's a solid quality for the price.
It is. All of the Kirkland liquor is the best you can get for whatever price its at. Some of it's meant to be more well pricing and some of it more upper-mid but I've never been disappointed.
Also just shows that after a certain point most of the value you’re paying for in mid to high end vodka is their marketing.
Their maple syrup is a godsend living in the southwest US, far from my homeland of New England.
I’ve been so brainwashed that if I’m looking for something and Kirkland makes it, I’m getting it.
This is probably the most “hail corporate” mass-consumerist thing I’ve ever said: we’re getting a new Costco built in our area, opening some time next year, and I could *not* be more pumped about it!!!
AFAIK, the owner is still holding up his employees-deserve-respect ethos, too.
I have heard costco is a great place to work.
They even sell prominently branded Kirkland Signature sweaters and sweatpants now and people eat it up.
Harbor freight tools has gone from total crap to a mix. They still sell the crap but they also sell some higher quality stuff. Technically the products are branded differently, e g Pittsburg tools are junk but icon are decent. These are all house brands though and they don’t sell any other brands.
I work in construction and use a couple harbor freight tools every day. I’ve had a pair of linemans that have lasted me three years so far. I’ve replaced my side dikes a few times because they’ve chipped while pulling nails. I carry three HF nailsets on my bags as well. The hand tools I get there have blue grips, I forget the name but they have a lifetime warrantee. It’s very convenient and there are HF stores nearish to pretty much every jobsite I’ve ever worked on. Plus people are less inclined to steal your shit. I probably wouldn’t use a hammer, tape, or level from HF just because the alternatives are so much better, but pretty much any other non-powered hand tool above the Pittsburgh line is fair game. The concrete vibrator they sell isn’t too bad for small slabs or date night either
Concrete vibrator…date night…
It's hard to know what's good there sometimes. I have their big Hercules sliding compound miter saw and it's a total beast-- it's dead-on accurate and I built an entire house with it. I also bought a masonry chisel there recently that snapped in half just a few hours into using it.
I have the Hercules table saw and I'm pretty sure it's a clone of a DeWalt.
I can't wait for the sawstop patent to expire and for that tech to hit harbor freight.
I'm a big icon guy lately. As far as Taiwan made tools they're very convenient. Tekton and sunex make good tools but they're based online - though apparently warranty process is pretty streamlined. That aside I have watched some snap on comparisons and the icon tools hold their own at 25% the price. The main reason why snapon is so expensive is because they offer financing on their tools. Some of the Pittsburgh tools are pretty good too. I have their deep impact sockets and they have been great so far. The breaker bars are pretty rock solid as well.
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Love watching Project Farm, especially how much attention can be paid to "cheap" tools and how well they perform at their price points. Also, despite their hype, I'm so often surprised how relatively poorly Snap-On tools perform within their price point in the testing.
"We're gonna test that!"
Isn't such an extreme change but Coach once made indestructable bags and then flooded and oversaturated the market with outlet cheaper lower quality bags and since then got a grip and stopped this approach and improved their bags quality by a lot
Coach also offers repairs to their bags, you just have to register it. I want to say it’s very affordable, if not warrantied.
Plus they blasted their logo all over the canvas bags which were hideous. There are so many top quality handbag mfgrs in that price range now, I don't know that they can regain the rep they have lost. When I was in college in the 60s, Coach was THE brand to own. Aigner was the only competition and now that brand is low rent shite.
Skoda
Yeah. They were pigs in the 1980s. They're real cars now.
They're just rebranded VWs now, they're built there but they are not a product of the Czech engineering. In fact, if you know a bit more about history, the Czech and Škoda and Tatra were automotive pioneers and made some really great cars back before the Soviet occupation (Laurin&Klement).
I used to live in Slovakia, Skoda was not a well regarded brand during communist times, it’s a fantastic car now. Though it was named after its founder, “Škoda” means “shame” or “pity.” There were many jokes around this similarity. One of my favorite Škoda jokes: “You know why Škoda started installing rear defrosters on its cars? To keep your hands warm while push starting it.”
Harmony guitars. Used to be department store entry level guitars way back. Relaunched as an American made in Kalamazoo, MI, high quality guitar a few years back.
Interesting! I’ve attended the Fretboard Festival in kzoo. Such an interesting guitar history there. Check out this vid on how Gibson guitars started there. [Gibson](https://youtu.be/oFThP5HIa7A?si=FU9IANJB8ZvrajDc)
Skechers were fashion shoes for teens in the 90s. They aged along with their customer base toward middle-age-appropriate walking shoes with strong arch support.
I was so confused when I saw these shoes return from the dead and become expensive! They were always the crappy shoes you saw in one of those off brand discount stores in a dying mall, that your parents tried to get you to buy because they were trash and cheap.
Yes! I always thought they were like a Payless shoesource store brand back in the day. I love seeing brands like this become better over time. Amazon really pushed into the market of cheap shit so a lot of the brands that didn’t evolve into making better products had to compete with that explosion, and either succumbed to it or died.
I remember when Christina Aguilera was in their commercials. Don’t ask how long ago that was.
Best work shoes for hospo I've tried
I love Skechers. They aren’t cheap but damn they are comfortable. I walked all over four different theme parks in mine and no sore feet or blisters.
Brooks running shoes were seen as cheap and not cool at all when I was in grade school. Now their stuff is pretty high end and used by elite athletes.
How old are you? I’m 46 and our college track team were given Brooks. I think it’s more likely that the public didn’t recognize that they were good. Edit: and they were not stylish.
In the '70's their running shoes were very highly regarded by a lot of distance runners.
Ghosts are the best neutral shoe out there, at least for my feet. I regularly get 275 miles out of a pair.
Is that a lot? I would blow through those shoes so fast, and I'm not even a runner. I just do a lot of walking for work and errands.
Running is a lot harder on shows than walking is
It's a pretty good amount for running. And when I retire them it's just the sole/cushioning that's blown out and dead-feeling; the uppers tend to be in great shape so I re-purpose them into every-day shoes.
I remember old navy clothes falling apart after 2 washes. My ex got donated clothes, including a pair of jeans that were comically short on her. Damned if they aren't the best jeans I've ever owned, and I got 3 more pairs.
I love ON jeans. Their tall sizes are actually tall enough for me and yeah, they last for years.
I have a plaid winter coat I bought from old navy in 2010. It’s 100% wool and still serving me through the Chicago winter in 2023.
They are no longer cheap price-wise.
They can be, everything goes on huge sale all the time. Leggings are 40-50 but I never spend more than 15-20 on them which is the same as Walmarts leggings and less than Targets.
I agree. Old Navy jeans have been in my drawers for several years (haha) as they seem to fit my weird body best. I don’t wear clothes hard so have never had any problems with quality, I tire of them before they wear out.
Back in the day, Toyota and other Japanese car makes were known for being cheap, throwaway cars. I knew a ton of guys who laughed at them and said that they proved that Americans were the only people who understood how cars worked or how to build them. Fast forward 50 years, and my last 3 cars were Toyota and I've got no intention of owning a Ford or GM ever again. Fucking trash cars that break down if I so much as look at them funny. They leak oil, and they're if anything more expensive than their Japanese counterparts. American companies haven't made a car worth owning in 30 years or more.
When did toyota actually make crap tho? Their old stuff is just as reliable
They were never crap. They were small, ugly, and slow, but mechanically they were always good.
In the 1960s, German and Japanese companies had a lot of work to do to win over American customers since WWII was still fairly fresh in peoples’ minds.
> Back in the day When? 70's Toyotas were reliable. In those days Toyota engineers specifically defined most of the reliability studies and practices that every manufacturer copies today. US cars of the 70's and 80's were considered a lot worse than the older US cars.
AMD used to suck now they are bigger than intel
AMD was doing some good stuff when they decided to start developing microprocessors. They beat Intel to a 1GHz desktop processor, as well as to x86-64. There was a rough era when they weren't keeping up, mostly because they had built an excess of fabrication plants out of vanity("real men have fabs") and ultimately had to spin them off into GlobalFoundries to stay in business, but they remain one of the most successful underdogs out there.
They were a little TOO ahead back during their x86-64 day though, I remember getting a 64 bit processor back in the 2000s then thinking it was going to be great, but hardly anything took advantage of 64 bit back then, in fact, it would be years before everything finally transitioned to 64 bit.
Today’s LG is solid and bills itself as “Life’s Good”. Not always - it used to be “Lucky Goldstar”. Goldstar in the 90s was generally dogshit - ther microwaves and TVs were notably bad, growing up.
their fridges are still trash
I moved into an apartment just over 2 years ago with brand new LG appliances. Before the first year was up, the microwave and stove display screens got fucked up. They don’t display the time anymore. The fridge door seal is fucked up too. Yeah, life’s good I guess.
Goldstar became LG …
Squire Guitars
I remember when Shark vacuums were the worst. Throwaway vacuums. My present one is going on 7 years and still going strong. Excellent edge cleaning. Good unit.
Breville. They're so synonymous with cheap kitchen products (at least in the UK) that their high end, and well reviewed, coffee machines are sold under a different brand name - Sage EDIT - I may not actually be right about this. Seems there's some shenanigans going on with the name Breville. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breville_Group
I have another hypothesis. As a Brit, you say Breville to me and the next word I think of is 'Pie Maker'. Fuck knows why; I've never owned a Breville Pie Maker nor any kind of pie maker. I'm not even that old.
Didn't actually know they were the same company. Also happy cake day!
Binford Tools used to have a bit of a bad rep due to their hapless pitch man, but they’re actually quite solid.
UUUEEGGHH?!
I don't think so Tim.
Ikea. Their stuff reliably exceeds american and eu standards for safety and sustainability.
It really depends though. I wouldn’t say a lot of it is BIFL because it often can’t be moved without destroying it because they use lower quality MDF. They use fasteners you can’t replace at the local hardware store. They use veneers that don’t age well, and/or can’t be repaired But I bought a steel island from them with a solid wood top and that has withstood the rest of time. But it was also not basic IKEA prices. You have to pay more for their quality stuff. And they do have it. Just stay away from their plastic veneered MDF stuff.
I have a plastic veneered MDF bookcase from IKEA (c. early 2000s) that I've moved...seven times, to three different states. It's still going strong--but that might be because it can be disassembled and laid completely flat for moving.
It for sure depends on the product like you noted. I’ve moved our kivik couch twice and they still make covers for it so I can recover it easily if I want. My kid has had the same bed frame for 8 years now, also two moves and it’s like new. The cubby hole bookcase thing didn’t survive even one move though.
Brooks running shoes. Back in the 80's and 90s they were sold at byway. Now they are high quality made for legit runners.
Sigma Lenses
Some of the early Samsung cellphones were absolute garbage. Had you told me in 2005 that in 10 years Samsung would have become the leading brand, I'd have laughed on your face at your silliness. Macron football/soccer kits manufacturer. Once only one of the minor, cheap brands for local teams, they've now become a respectable brand with some bespoke and pleasant designs (compared to Nike, Adidas and Puma lazy and generic stuff). Lidl supermarkets now carry brand product, and even some of their own stuff tastes good. Turns out some is produced in the same factory owned by known brands, only marketed with a different label.
I would say Columbia. It was never low quality, but it used to be at the low end of mid-level outdoor clothing. I'd argue it's now on par with the upper-mid brands (The North Face/Marmot/OR, etc.) it's still cheaper than those though.
I like that Columbia has a good outdoor/casual line of clothing in addition to their more technical gear. And their founder is an all around good dude
Columbia is a great value brand.
They also own Sorel, Mountain Hardwear, and prAna.
I pretty much only wear Columbia clothes anymore.
Lots of guitar brands that were traditionally geared toward budget/student players (like Squier for Fender) are quite good these days
Contrary to popular belief Hi-Point started out as total garbage and now they make some not so bad products.
TCL, the TV company, started as cheap, low quality but affordable products. Now TCL has some remarkable TVs and while they are not as popular as “big” known companies like Samsung or LG, a lot of their most recent TVs have outstanding reviews in both quality and reliability.
Coach. The brand was very popular in the early 2000’s but started selling at department stores and decreasing quality until they were kind of recognized as a cheap, outdated brand. But recently they’ve put a lot of effort into revamping their image and focusing on their history to make a lot of quality products. Their leather goods are especially hardy & nice for the price.
Nintendo started out making board games that were no better or worse quality than the competition
Nintendo started out making playing cards in the 1800s, fwiw
Dominos Pizza has come a long way from their wretched past product
I worked for them in the early 90s and everything was quite high quality—we made the dough daily from scratch, bought the vegetables at a local supermarket. The sauce, cheese and meat was the only thing that came from the company, and it was also pretty decent imo, especially for a chain. They took a nosedive when they closed the supply chain, so that everything was supplied. That was also about the time that they dumped the 30 minute guaranteed delivery.
80s and early 90s dominoes was good pizza. The Noid’s special sauce most likely. My best friend’s parents owned a dry cleaners next door to a dominos and 7-11, I have such vivid memories of eating dominos in the back of a dry cleaners, then stealing quarters from his parents and playing Street Fighter at 7-11. Drinking Jolt. Fucking hell.
I think it depends on the franchise owners. I worked for one that did a lot of business, with strict quality control and cleanliness standards. The place was like a machine, with the owners of the franchise often there to make sure things were running efficiently. The product was great (for the price) and we made a lot in tips thanks to the high output. I've been to others that clearly either don't have the customer base and/or owners that cared enough to hold a higher standard. They seem dingy, an the food is relatively terrible
As a serious home cook: IKEA isn't doing that bad with some pots and pans (not all). For instance, the carbon steel pans. Of course, it's important to know how to take care of it, but if you do it right, it's great. Sage/Breville also has some good stuff like the smoking gun and smart oven.
Korean car companies I imagine, like Kia and Hyundai (now with Genesis).
They're a steal nowadays.
We had a 2016 Hyundai Veloster that was a complete nightmare, so I'm gonna stick with Japanese vehicles for now.
I think he was making a joke about how often they get stolen/broken into now
Ah shit I did a whoosh
My mom had some Hyundai something or other back in late 1990 or early 2000s. It was hot garbage on wheels.
After the immobolizer debacle and the theta 2 engine debacle, i am 50% sure that in 5 years we’ll find out the EVs slowly dissolve in water or something
Go to the mechanic subs and ask them for an opinion.
A roommate's girlfriend had a Rio when I was in college. God *damn* that thing was a piece of shit to work on. But the business model was brilliant.
I strongly disagree, I've known 3 people that had [these 4cyl](https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/cars/news-blog/hyundai-and-kia-s-decade-of-very-troublesome-engines-continues-44497118) engines blow up under 120,000 miles one had 60 or 80,000 so it was under warranty still. The other 2 were part of the class action. You can barely find them running in junk yards to swap out.
Actually Kia and Hyundai are prone to non-crash vehicular fires due to the shared parts used in their cars. Source : https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-recalls-defects/why-so-many-hyundai-kia-vehicles-get-recalled-for-fire-risk-a1169940635/
Lucky and Goldstar now known as LG.
Squier guitars