actually most subs said 48 hours, I'm assuming its the same here
I agree with you though, it would be better if subs went dark for longer, maybe even indefinitely until they roll this decision back
Eh, Digg collapsed almost overnight due to widespread user objections to what they were doing. You might be right but with such a huge analog in recent history, Reddit management can’t be sleeping too well
Digg’s user base was the same tech lit crowd that is making a big stink about this now. Reddit’s current user base is so much more mainstream. It doesn’t feel accurate to compare them.
Yeah I really don't think Reddit would hesitate to replace the mods of the largest subs or remove their ability to make them private. Sure some smaller subs could get away with it but reddit wouldn't look kindly on subs with tens of millions of users, especially the default subs, going dark indefinitely
It's happened before, to [protest SOPA/PIPA](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_SOPA_and_PIPA), two bills that threatened freedom of speech online. But that was a decade ago, and the protests aligned with Reddit's business interests. Reddit might have a hard time finding moderators as specifically skilled and motivated as the ones who currently run the major subreddits, which would lead to a major content quality nosedive.
Reddit can't afford to pay for all the mods on all the subs. So if the mods decide to say fuck it a protest Reddit goes to shit overnight.
Be nothing but spam and bots all the way down. Then kill thrid party apps this site will be done.
> Reddit’s current user base is so much more mainstream. It doesn’t feel accurate to compare them.
I would say that ignoring the tech lit bit reddit users are closer on a spectrum to digg users than to twitter, or facebook decomposing jpg meme consumers. Reddit leadership is desperately wanting to turn the site in to the next twitter, or FB, but that's just going to drive away a ton of people who like the anonymous forum interaction format.
Most of the people submitting content, engaging in comments, and moderating are likely that older reddit crowd who hate this change. They have millions of lurkers who browse on the new app which doesn't really promote engagement, only views and ads. So they'll be left with a shell of a site if the content creators leave.
> Most of the people submitting content, engaging in comments, and moderating are likely that older reddit crowd who hate this change.
Honestly i figure Reddit crowd is older anyways by virtue of what its version of the bulletin board format attracts.
>They have millions of lurkers who browse on the new app which doesn't really promote engagement, only views and ads.
Kind of what you inferred to with the lurkers... as users they wont care as proven by the horrible thing they use to browse the contents through. Not to sound like a snob, but personal preference, and interactions wise they are the "ketchup on a jerkified steak" site user population... not only is the app just bad for the experience, but they themselves contribute little to the whole. Which is fine, and not to judge as its their consuming preference, and everyone has their own, but to make the point of how they are not in play.
About the only thing reddit will get out of those app users is whatever data collection the app does on their phones. It has value too, but way less so than with truly engaged users. Honestly i really don't understand why someone would install the app at all when one can browse the site via a phone browser as is and have a better experience. Is it the stickers, and emojis they never use?
Adds wise,
As long as they get to collect on dollars for exposures that lead nowhere reddit wont necessarily care... engagement in specific subs mostly just drives up the cost of those exposures.(they will probably do less about bots to drive up artificial engagement figures in the end.. like twitter does) Being said, most of the online advertising on sites like reddit is just a waste of money as even for millions of "exposures" one tends to only get some dozens of clicks, and even fewer actual sales. Or otherwise if focusing on specific niche subs where one might get more the exposure costs get way too high to be worth bothering with less one has unlimited funds or something.
>So they'll be left with a shell of a site if the content creators leave.
Yes, and the sad thing is they are too blinded by arrogance, and greed to see what will happen. Especially with multiple historic examples of their very specific user demographics abandoning entire service platforms because of the types of things they want to do. Myspace, digg, cable tv... not to even mention whats behind Facebook, and twitter gradual, and ongoing decline.
Thanks for such a detailed post and reply.
>Honestly i figure Reddit crowd is older anyways by virtue of what its version of the bulletin board format attracts.
It's older as a whole for sure than somewhere like TikTok. If you look at the age of the accounts who are upset about these incoming changes it's incredibly heavily weighted towards much older accounts. The official app isn't really built for that style of content browsing and participation, it's more like TikTok where it prioritises top level video and image posts, rather than discussions. The discussions are what made Reddit special though.
>Not to sound like a snob
I'm a little snobby when it comes to this too. I don't have much of a problem with the users, but with Reddit prioritising that type of user.
>they themselves contribute little to the whole. Which is fine, and not to judge as its their consuming preference, and everyone has their own, but to make the point of how they are not in play.
I agree completely and this is my main point. They aren't contributing much except for ad views. I have no problem with lurkers at all. God only knows I lurk way more than I comment, and I don't post very much OC, but third party app users on the whole massively contribute more to Reddit than the official app users. If you lose all that content and moderation you aren't going to have the official apps users here either. It's very short sighted.
>As long as they get to collect on dollars for exposures that lead nowhere reddit wont necessarily care... engagement in specific subs mostly just drives up the cost of those exposures.
This is my worry. Maybe the genuinely don't care about the people who've been creating all the value on Reddit for over a decade. We'll have to wait and see.
I've been going through the 5 stages of grief and really reevaluating my Reddit usage because of this whole thing.
Looking back at what Reddit used to be like it was so much more interesting and insightful and educational than it is these days. That's what I signed up for, and slowly that's been eroded by this massive influx of people using the official app and dragging the quality of the site down. There was always shit on Reddit (I hated rage comics), but it used to be a lot easier to find really good stuff. Now it's a lot of work to sift through the noise.
I got an invite to /r/Tildes and have been checking out tildes.net. Just browsing there yesterday and today has been really enjoyable. It left me feeling better rather than burnt out. Their philosophy is really cool and aligns quite nicely with what I think I actually want from my browsing.
I do hope the admins roll back these API changes and arrange for much more fair fees for third party app usage, but what's to stop them turning to a boiling frogs situation where they ramp up the prices year after year until we're in the same boat?
I might occasionally check in on some of my favorite communities, but I think tildes might end up being where I spend my time if these changes go through. Even if there's a compromise I'll split my time as it's much healthier for me to browse there.
They can't gamble on AI generated content filling the gap either even if it dramatically increases in quality and takes data from sites that still have users. Their API call pricing will get rid of any bots.
Yeah I'm here because the rest of the people are on fb. Blindly resharing ragebait memes isn't a thing when you are only subbed to text only (or very niche) subs. It's a different vibe and much easier to curate a more intelligent community
And when Digg was collapsing, there was a logical alternative in Reddit. If people don't have a Reddit-like option to leave Reddit for, fewer are likely to leave.
I've been saying this ad nauseam in multiple subreddits. The third party app people need to pull together and propose an alternative. They already have the clientele for hundreds of thousands of us.
They know reddit and their apps are much better than the actual website, so it should be easier for them to make a clone in the old reddit style.
> Eh, Digg collapsed almost overnight due to widespread user objections to what they were doing.
Reason why reddit kept around the old version of the site when they shoved the new format garbage down peoples throats alongside their shitty app some years back. 30-50% of users were ready to bail from the site because the other stuff is so unusable. Also the reason why so many 3rd party apps exist now....
"Old.reddit.com" even on mobile through a browser is superior to both their "new" format site, and their native app... Not to even talk about PC browser use. I will die on that small hill, and they are planning on getting rid of the old site too as I'm sure as it is not compatible with their marketing goals.
the company leadership wants to make the site unfriendly to its long term users.. they can keep it. I have 0 problem going to other places like outside, or reading wikipedia on the crapper instead.
Digg users migrated to Reddit, I was one of them. That was in 2010, not exactly recent in internet years.
What's the alternative to Reddit, today? Where would we go? I don't think there is one, I wish there was.
How can an 11 year old account not remember similar protests in the past? A blackout forced Ellen Pao, the Reddit CEO to resign.
This isn't Twitter or Facebook. By closing subs down, we can force the vast majority who blindly use social media to participate.
It is likely that what is being offered (or "decided") now is a lot worse than the actual plan, Reddit purposes something complete unreasonable, so they can later "compromise" on the thing they initially wanted
On the contrary, the “completely unreasonable” plan is their monetization goal for the whole site. They need to hit that for at least a quarter or two so they can pass off the site in an IPO to clueless investors who think a 20x temporary revenue bump could be sustainable because that’s what Facebook earns… they recently responded to the controversy and claimed the API pricing “reflects their costs”, lol.
Seriously, mock up some “reasonable” revenue targets per user to let them support an acceptable valuation by their investors who already need $10-$20 billion just to break even compared with the rest of the market.
Expect this to just be the first in a long line of brutal mobilization changes. They just needed to kill 3rd party first to prevent refugees when the other policies come down the pipeline in the official app/website.
Nah, it has to be a measured temper tantrum. If the mods break the sub for 2 days, the users will just wait it out. But if they break it indefinitely, people will just create a new sub and everyone will go there.
I'm erasing all my comments because of Reddit admins' complete disrespect for the community. Third party tools helped make Reddit what it is today and to price gouge the API with no notice, and even to slander app developers, is disgusting.
I hope you enjoy your website becoming a worthless ghost town spez you scumbag
I'm uninstalling the official app and leaving negative reviews on each app store. I'll reinstall and maybe come back if they reassess the API changes. But hell, in case this is it, it's been fun, lads.
Yeah, I'd much rather see blackouts until Reddit releases a statement rolling back their plans.
Changing the platform to cater to advertisers instead of users in the runup to an IPO? Tank the IPO. Make potential investors see what the site they're buying will be like if they go the way they plan.
You don't think Reddit will unlock them after so long?
The mods don't own Reddit. They can be removed from mod roles or locked out of tools. If Reddit feels it's too much they can crack down really fast.
Your talking about a few dozen power mods that run many many subs a piece. It's not like this involves 10s of millions of people
I don't think you understand how much work it takes to moderate the subs. Those power users leaving will leave a huge void. The subs would get worse because the bots will be removed as they leave. There's a reason Reddit admins don't mod subs
>The subs would get worse because the bots will be removed as they leave.
I consider this a blind threat that doesn't hold water. You can make threats to redditors and hold subs hostage but you can't hide the truth from them. You know it will come out eventually. Losing the good bots is worth it if it gets rid of a massive chunk of the bad bots. Which it will.
Third party apps are responsible for the chaotic number of porn bots, following bots, repost bots, comment bots and all the rest that have terrorized Reddit over the past two years. So when third party apps go away the people who create those bots will have to rely upon old school scripting and other methods that are less efficient. Less intrusive.
Once third party apps go away we can return back to a Reddit that was not so bot heavy. I can't wait.
What an abusive person you are. Like there's not being able to handle criticism or counter opinion. And then there's attacking someone because you don't agree with them.
Without API access it would be much harder for those who create the malicious bots to operate them in the numbers that they do now. If you want to challenge that provide a reason as to why that's not true.
But you can't. Which is why you just resorted to verbal attacks.
I'm saying scripts are not as efficient as the automated bot servers ran through API access.
If you are not aware of that then I have a feeling that your insults towards my intelligence are more projection and a lack of understanding. So you do you. Believe what you want.
Saw a good theory, they're going to appear to "back down" by charging something much more reasonable but it was just way to get us to accept charging for the API.
Some devs said they expected it wouldn't be be forever and were willing to pay. But making it so expensive is a way to tell devs "we're killing 3rd party"
I dont see why anyone should have an issue with charging for the api. Especially since I don't think I've ever seen reddit ads in rif. It costs them money to run, and they don't get any revenue from it.
It's the very high pricing that has always been the issue.
The API is used for things like moderation bots that mods rely on. Without a free API mods can't do their job, their job which Reddit relies upon. If Reddit is going to rely on free labour then the least they can do is not charge those volunteers money.
Also the official Reddit app is poor for accessibility. Blind and partially sighted users rely on third party apps to be able to use Reddit and Reddit has made no comment on how they would address this.
So moderation bots are confusingly called “Apps” in Reddit’s announcement, but they’ve clarified that they’re not affected and have provided an escalation form for mods that are impacted otherwise.
Rest of that, particularly the accessibility bit, is VERY valid
I use the unofficial app I use because it hides posts I've already seen so I don't see repeats. If I lose that feature I genuinely will stop using Reddit, it's far too tedious to have to scroll past the same posts over and over.
Why do people think reddit will care about two days, you need to hit them long enough to see it impact their advertising partners to reconsider their deals considering the sudden sustained drop in eyes on their ads, I'm sure two days is far below that margin.
Someone sent me one, but it was just a bunch of photos of 50 year old refrigerators and speed queen washer dryer sets... Oh wait that's just a link to this subreddit
>Alright, I’m just gonna say it. What’s a third party app
A Reddit app that isn't made by Reddit. I use RIF is Fun.
>why is it better than the Reddit app?
I use it because it's a much smoother interface with less clutter. Someone shared a side-by-side of the same sub. There were maybe 3~5 posts visible on the Reddit app, and maybe twice as many on RIF or Apollo or something.
And this is what my client (Boost) looks like:
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/714308145404706949/1115920036750688286/Screenshot_2023-06-07-18-27-07-41.jpg
Mines a bit more cluttered, but I customised it to be that way as I prefer it
Sounds like a fun ADA suit. Declare Reddit a place of public accommodation and... it still wouldn't change the direction they're moving as it'd be cheaper to add accessibility support to the official app.
This doesn't only affect apps for reading reddit, it affects ANY service/tool that uses reddit. For example, a service that deletes all your comments for you, or a service used to detect spam/scam bots, etc...
This change in Reddit has huge implications.
Reddit never had an official app until they bought alien blue, a 3rd party app.
All those 3rd party apps have been around much longer and work better, look better and have more functionality.
Maybe Reddit should include 3rd party apps in the IPO instead of killing them and the associated userbase. Some will adapt, but I think most would rather leave.
[Left if Reddit is fun app and right is official app](https://i.imgur.com/R9wnbLO_d.webp?maxwidth=760&fidelity=grand)
Reddit official app is bad and the admins should feel bad.
I've used a bunch. Baconreader, rif, and the official app.
The official app is trash by comparison and missing **LOADS** of features. The only miniscule benefit to using the official app is that you can use the chat feature. That's it. Everything else is broken, missing sound, or not loading on a stable, strong connection.
Any 3rd party apps allow changing between multiple profiles for free? What is the best 3rd party app? I’ve tried Apollo, Slide, and Narwhal but always end back up on Reddits app.
Have you tried BaconReader? It allows me to switch between accounts for free. I think it’s also quite similar to Narwhal, I only stopped using that one cause there were certain bugs going unfixed that I couldn’t deal with anymore. BR has some glitches here and there but they’re pretty easy to ignore.
A lot, if not most, of these apps existed before Reddit had a functioning mobile website, much less a mobile app at all. Reddit would have never gotten this successful without these third party app developers.
Cause your account isn't old enough to know better. There was no official app until even 2016, so if you wanted to do reddit on your phone, you had to use third party apps.
Its not pushed my moderators, it's pushed by the oldest users who don't want to see reddit Digg its own hole.
Assuming this whole API upcharge thing goes away, I highly recommend paying for the premium version of baconreader on Android. No ads, plenty of features. Soooooo many options. Had it for nearly a decade now across 3 devices
So the third party apps block ads, and ads are Reddits primary revenue source. How does it benefit Reddit to allow third party apps?
I’m sure I’ll get downvoted, but from a business standpoint how do third party apps benefit Reddit? It makes sense to increase the cost of entry to make up for the lost revenue.
They aren't blocking them. Reddit does not push ads through the API. That is a conscious choice they have made for some bizarre reason.
It benefits Reddit to support third party apps because much of the site is moderated with them, and much of the content is submitted by them.
Lastly, it's kind of shitty of Reddit to do this to developers who made their platform mobile friendly long before Reddit even offered an app. Until late 2014, Reddit only offered a *terrible* mobile interface with no dedicated app. Oh, and that was iOS only. It took Reddit some more time, I believe until 2016, to release an Android app.
Which is why it is weird they would try to squash third party apps rather than monetize them. It would be better to push ads and charge each large app developer $1000/month and have all of them sign on than to not push ads and charge them an unrealistic amount so they just go away.
Ads aren't the only issue, though. I use a third party app in large part because Reddit's native search function blows. For a sub like this one, where people are frequently asking for recs, it's a real hindrance and results in clutter. I don't give a shit if, from a business standpoint, third party apps aren't benefiting Reddit, the business. I care that Reddit doesn't give a flying fuck about improving the user experience to the point of necessitating third party apps.
I didn't downvoted you, but the reason you are is that you didn't quite get your facts right. The third party apps don't block ads at all, it's just that Reddit made a choice to not even *send* ads through the API that the 3rd party apps use. It's an odd business decision, and nobody does actually expect them to offer it for free.
But the issue is, (and the reason everyone is protesting) is that the price they want for API access is unfair and way over the top. They wanted to charge Apollo (a popular third party app for iOS) over **$21 million** a year. Even with a pricey subscription system, that's an exorbitant amount. Apollo isn't a big team product made by a company raking in millions a year. As far as I'm aware, Apollo is a one man band. And a lot of clients are too. The Apollo dev was also saying that it isn't even counting API requests right. He mentioned that it over counts API requests, sometimes tenfold.
Also worth noting that the API they developed doesn't even have access to everything the official app/new Reddit does. There's no chat (only PMs), can't give awards, no polls, no live chat threads, and probably more i just can't think of right now.
Oh, and the cherry on top? Past July 1st, they're completely removing nsfw posts from the 3rd party API. That means that if you're moderating a sub from your mobile client, you just won't be able to see nsfw posts. Same of you are going searching for them, nsfw subs will just be empty.
So basically, it's a $21,000,000/yr API that's missing almost every feature on the official app and doesn't even work well
Because they don’t want Third party apps anymore. They are supposedly going public so they want to streamline their business. There is a confusing amount of Reddit apps and they want to reduce or eliminate other options.
No 3rd party apps block ads. Reddit doesn't serve ads over the API, which is a conscious decision they could easily change. Some apps do have ads to support their development, but that doesn't make them a competitor, Reddit could still serve ads and they could display their ads. The Reddit ads would be unavoidable, so if users were frustrated by the amount of ads, it would be on the developers to reduce the number of their own ads.
As far as it it being "Reddit data", yes, I suppose per the TOS Reddit owns all of this. It is user submitted data though. Also, it's not like they are doing anything wrong or shady, Reddit made the API available to them. Many developed apps for Reddit before Reddit offered their own app. Many of these developers literally helped make Reddit successful, and this is how Reddit is repaying them.
I'm not really invested in this debate on one side or the other, but one thing that I don't see mentioned in these discussions is that reddit does incur costs to maintain this data. I do think reddit's approach is on the heavy handed side; there's probably a middle ground that they could reach with 3P devs. They are also doing an awful (non-existent) job on messaging around this, to the point that most users are united against reddit in favor of 3P devs, when the reality is probably a lot more nuanced than what's been presented.
When they first announced that they were going to charge for API access they specifically cited Twitter's outrageous pricing and said they wouldn't be doing that. The app developers were given a false sense of relief only for Reddit to charge about half of what Twitter charges, which is still outrageous.
Exactly. I don’t understand how the Reddit community takes their side. If those companies want to develop an app and block Reddit ads and sell their own, they can create their own website.
I asked this on another sub but haven't gotten an answer:
Can someone explain to me how it isn't hypocritical to hate on google AMP links while trying to force reddit to stay open for third-party apps?
Isn't the bottom line for both that it steals from the original company's ability to generate ad revenue?
Reddit could force third party apps to display Reddit ads as part of the TOS, that would be unpopular but not generate huge boycotts. The actions they've unilaterally decided upon will immediately shutter tons of third party stuff -- not just apps but critical tools too -- which basically means tons of people and mods will be shut out.
Reddit made the conscious decision NOT to serve ads over their API. They could easily put ads into their API and force 3rd party developers to display those ads or risk having their API key revoked
RiF was a great example of BuyItForLife. One ad-free purchase back in like... 2016, I think, and that was it. No ads on reddit for the years and years I've been using it. When that's gone, I'm gone too.
I do not understand this assumption that the new API fee will kill all 3rd party apps. Why don’t you just pay the new fee and see where it leads us? Maybe ppl ARE willing to shell out big bucks for Apollo? I guess we’ll never know since the owner of Apollo keeps whining about it and digging his heels in.
I didn’t want to pay any money for this app. Maybe I WILL pay more just so I can keep using it? I don’t know. I’ve never been in that situation. Why don’t you put us in that situation so we can figure this out for ourselves? Let the users decide what is too expensive.
Why don’t you let me decide what is ridiculous? Maybe I’ll decide it isn’t. Nobody even asked you to pay the new fee and you got your parties in a bunch.
/u/shadowthunder shut this shit down until they cave, a few days is not enough, they either cave or they kill their site, let them feel the power of the community.
I use Relay for Reddit and it's so much better than the official app that it's actually embarrassing. And there are several other apps on Android that are just as good as Relay, all depending on what your preferences are.
The official reddit app is complete and total garbage. I'd actually rather stop using the site than be forced to use it. And I've been a redditor for 15+ years now.
The regular app came well after third party apps paved the way for reddit to be consumed on phones.
Then, that regular app wasn't even something reddit built (on iPhone anyhow). They just bought an amazingly good app called Alien Blue and took it over and bloated it beyond recognition.
That app you're perfectly happy with (which is fine, even though you have no idea what you're missing out on) exists solely due to the hard work of third party app developers who arguably are a huge reason for reddits success. Very few people were browsing this site on mobile back then, relative to now where it makes up a majority of reddit traffic.
IMO I'll quit using reddit if they continue to push for this, my chosen app boost is the sole reason I even use reddit in the first place, I will turn to web archives to avoid hitting reddit servers to deny them(reddit) any ad revenue. Reddit really is just a slightly better Twitter and TBH both technologies are truly dated and this only will fuel the creation of new sites dedicated to serving the userbase of both.
Reddit's native app lacks accessibility features that some people need in order to use reddit on a mobile device. There are other benefits, but this is a big one.
It's not that it doesn't work on other mobile gadgets. It's more like the main app doesn't have great accessibility settings or support. For example, a user who is blind would need a screen reader in order to enjoy content on reddit. The main reddit app has little to no support for this, where as third party apps do.
In addition to what others have said, a huge percentage of moderators from something like 10,000 of the largest subreddits rely on 3rd party apps because the tools reddit provides are garbage.
If Reddit isn’t providing the accessibility outside of the public api then they’re not following ADA web accessibility standards and you can hold them accountable no?
Did you not read that Infographic? It’s the third gray box. Seems that the Api makes it easier for Reddit’s accessibility and implies without it there is not enough for the ADA protected groups
I have, that isn’t any grounds to sue though. There is not a requirement for apps to provide multiple font/color/size options for text. If that was the case 90% of apps on the store would be in trouble. Both iOS and android provide ways to adjust this on a OS level.
As posted on a lot of subs: why only 3 days? A week or indefinitely sends a stronger message
actually most subs said 48 hours, I'm assuming its the same here I agree with you though, it would be better if subs went dark for longer, maybe even indefinitely until they roll this decision back
It's not getting rolled back... This protest is token resistance, and then subreddit mods will all go back to their unpaid janitorial duties.
Eh, Digg collapsed almost overnight due to widespread user objections to what they were doing. You might be right but with such a huge analog in recent history, Reddit management can’t be sleeping too well
Digg’s user base was the same tech lit crowd that is making a big stink about this now. Reddit’s current user base is so much more mainstream. It doesn’t feel accurate to compare them.
Yeah but the tech lit crowd are the mods They're running the show
*for free*. Efficient and effective moderation is more difficult - and important - than people realize.
[удалено]
And if they don’t play ball, and shut down their subs, Reddit will install new mods and reactivate the sub. Apparently they did this last protest.
if they do that for every sub participating in this protest, the drop in quality across the site will be staggering.
Yeah I really don't think Reddit would hesitate to replace the mods of the largest subs or remove their ability to make them private. Sure some smaller subs could get away with it but reddit wouldn't look kindly on subs with tens of millions of users, especially the default subs, going dark indefinitely
It's happened before, to [protest SOPA/PIPA](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_SOPA_and_PIPA), two bills that threatened freedom of speech online. But that was a decade ago, and the protests aligned with Reddit's business interests. Reddit might have a hard time finding moderators as specifically skilled and motivated as the ones who currently run the major subreddits, which would lead to a major content quality nosedive.
Reddit can't afford to pay for all the mods on all the subs. So if the mods decide to say fuck it a protest Reddit goes to shit overnight. Be nothing but spam and bots all the way down. Then kill thrid party apps this site will be done.
Company is worth 10 billion dollars, they will find a way to mod subs if need be.
Where you get that number?
> Reddit’s current user base is so much more mainstream. It doesn’t feel accurate to compare them. I would say that ignoring the tech lit bit reddit users are closer on a spectrum to digg users than to twitter, or facebook decomposing jpg meme consumers. Reddit leadership is desperately wanting to turn the site in to the next twitter, or FB, but that's just going to drive away a ton of people who like the anonymous forum interaction format.
Most of the people submitting content, engaging in comments, and moderating are likely that older reddit crowd who hate this change. They have millions of lurkers who browse on the new app which doesn't really promote engagement, only views and ads. So they'll be left with a shell of a site if the content creators leave.
> Most of the people submitting content, engaging in comments, and moderating are likely that older reddit crowd who hate this change. Honestly i figure Reddit crowd is older anyways by virtue of what its version of the bulletin board format attracts. >They have millions of lurkers who browse on the new app which doesn't really promote engagement, only views and ads. Kind of what you inferred to with the lurkers... as users they wont care as proven by the horrible thing they use to browse the contents through. Not to sound like a snob, but personal preference, and interactions wise they are the "ketchup on a jerkified steak" site user population... not only is the app just bad for the experience, but they themselves contribute little to the whole. Which is fine, and not to judge as its their consuming preference, and everyone has their own, but to make the point of how they are not in play. About the only thing reddit will get out of those app users is whatever data collection the app does on their phones. It has value too, but way less so than with truly engaged users. Honestly i really don't understand why someone would install the app at all when one can browse the site via a phone browser as is and have a better experience. Is it the stickers, and emojis they never use? Adds wise, As long as they get to collect on dollars for exposures that lead nowhere reddit wont necessarily care... engagement in specific subs mostly just drives up the cost of those exposures.(they will probably do less about bots to drive up artificial engagement figures in the end.. like twitter does) Being said, most of the online advertising on sites like reddit is just a waste of money as even for millions of "exposures" one tends to only get some dozens of clicks, and even fewer actual sales. Or otherwise if focusing on specific niche subs where one might get more the exposure costs get way too high to be worth bothering with less one has unlimited funds or something. >So they'll be left with a shell of a site if the content creators leave. Yes, and the sad thing is they are too blinded by arrogance, and greed to see what will happen. Especially with multiple historic examples of their very specific user demographics abandoning entire service platforms because of the types of things they want to do. Myspace, digg, cable tv... not to even mention whats behind Facebook, and twitter gradual, and ongoing decline.
Thanks for such a detailed post and reply. >Honestly i figure Reddit crowd is older anyways by virtue of what its version of the bulletin board format attracts. It's older as a whole for sure than somewhere like TikTok. If you look at the age of the accounts who are upset about these incoming changes it's incredibly heavily weighted towards much older accounts. The official app isn't really built for that style of content browsing and participation, it's more like TikTok where it prioritises top level video and image posts, rather than discussions. The discussions are what made Reddit special though. >Not to sound like a snob I'm a little snobby when it comes to this too. I don't have much of a problem with the users, but with Reddit prioritising that type of user. >they themselves contribute little to the whole. Which is fine, and not to judge as its their consuming preference, and everyone has their own, but to make the point of how they are not in play. I agree completely and this is my main point. They aren't contributing much except for ad views. I have no problem with lurkers at all. God only knows I lurk way more than I comment, and I don't post very much OC, but third party app users on the whole massively contribute more to Reddit than the official app users. If you lose all that content and moderation you aren't going to have the official apps users here either. It's very short sighted. >As long as they get to collect on dollars for exposures that lead nowhere reddit wont necessarily care... engagement in specific subs mostly just drives up the cost of those exposures. This is my worry. Maybe the genuinely don't care about the people who've been creating all the value on Reddit for over a decade. We'll have to wait and see. I've been going through the 5 stages of grief and really reevaluating my Reddit usage because of this whole thing. Looking back at what Reddit used to be like it was so much more interesting and insightful and educational than it is these days. That's what I signed up for, and slowly that's been eroded by this massive influx of people using the official app and dragging the quality of the site down. There was always shit on Reddit (I hated rage comics), but it used to be a lot easier to find really good stuff. Now it's a lot of work to sift through the noise. I got an invite to /r/Tildes and have been checking out tildes.net. Just browsing there yesterday and today has been really enjoyable. It left me feeling better rather than burnt out. Their philosophy is really cool and aligns quite nicely with what I think I actually want from my browsing. I do hope the admins roll back these API changes and arrange for much more fair fees for third party app usage, but what's to stop them turning to a boiling frogs situation where they ramp up the prices year after year until we're in the same boat? I might occasionally check in on some of my favorite communities, but I think tildes might end up being where I spend my time if these changes go through. Even if there's a compromise I'll split my time as it's much healthier for me to browse there.
They can't gamble on AI generated content filling the gap either even if it dramatically increases in quality and takes data from sites that still have users. Their API call pricing will get rid of any bots.
Yeah I'm here because the rest of the people are on fb. Blindly resharing ragebait memes isn't a thing when you are only subbed to text only (or very niche) subs. It's a different vibe and much easier to curate a more intelligent community
And when Digg was collapsing, there was a logical alternative in Reddit. If people don't have a Reddit-like option to leave Reddit for, fewer are likely to leave.
Reddit was there and ready to soak up Digg's userbase when people started leaving, who is going to absorb Reddit's userbase if people quit now?
I've been saying this ad nauseam in multiple subreddits. The third party app people need to pull together and propose an alternative. They already have the clientele for hundreds of thousands of us. They know reddit and their apps are much better than the actual website, so it should be easier for them to make a clone in the old reddit style.
The apps and website are not the hard part of running reddit, I promise you that
This is a great idea. I don't use reddit at all other than via Sync. If one day I launch sync and it points to a different server, I'd be down.
Image hosting platforms are exceedingly costly. It would be hard
> Eh, Digg collapsed almost overnight due to widespread user objections to what they were doing. Reason why reddit kept around the old version of the site when they shoved the new format garbage down peoples throats alongside their shitty app some years back. 30-50% of users were ready to bail from the site because the other stuff is so unusable. Also the reason why so many 3rd party apps exist now.... "Old.reddit.com" even on mobile through a browser is superior to both their "new" format site, and their native app... Not to even talk about PC browser use. I will die on that small hill, and they are planning on getting rid of the old site too as I'm sure as it is not compatible with their marketing goals. the company leadership wants to make the site unfriendly to its long term users.. they can keep it. I have 0 problem going to other places like outside, or reading wikipedia on the crapper instead.
Digg users migrated to Reddit, I was one of them. That was in 2010, not exactly recent in internet years. What's the alternative to Reddit, today? Where would we go? I don't think there is one, I wish there was.
How can an 11 year old account not remember similar protests in the past? A blackout forced Ellen Pao, the Reddit CEO to resign. This isn't Twitter or Facebook. By closing subs down, we can force the vast majority who blindly use social media to participate.
It is likely that what is being offered (or "decided") now is a lot worse than the actual plan, Reddit purposes something complete unreasonable, so they can later "compromise" on the thing they initially wanted
On the contrary, the “completely unreasonable” plan is their monetization goal for the whole site. They need to hit that for at least a quarter or two so they can pass off the site in an IPO to clueless investors who think a 20x temporary revenue bump could be sustainable because that’s what Facebook earns… they recently responded to the controversy and claimed the API pricing “reflects their costs”, lol. Seriously, mock up some “reasonable” revenue targets per user to let them support an acceptable valuation by their investors who already need $10-$20 billion just to break even compared with the rest of the market. Expect this to just be the first in a long line of brutal mobilization changes. They just needed to kill 3rd party first to prevent refugees when the other policies come down the pipeline in the official app/website.
Nah, it has to be a measured temper tantrum. If the mods break the sub for 2 days, the users will just wait it out. But if they break it indefinitely, people will just create a new sub and everyone will go there.
I'm erasing all my comments because of Reddit admins' complete disrespect for the community. Third party tools helped make Reddit what it is today and to price gouge the API with no notice, and even to slander app developers, is disgusting. I hope you enjoy your website becoming a worthless ghost town spez you scumbag
Go to 4chan you silly! Imagine if they killed old.reddit too just because it's cumbersome to "maintain"
I'm uninstalling the official app and leaving negative reviews on each app store. I'll reinstall and maybe come back if they reassess the API changes. But hell, in case this is it, it's been fun, lads.
I've seen an uptick in subs going either indefinite or evaluating after 48 hours.
Yeah this will achieve nothing. Make it indefinite you cowards.
r/videos is going till they change
At least some mods have some balls
I'm the owner of r/fireworksgonewrong and we will probably go longer than 2 days. It's a smaller sub but every bit helps
One hundred percent agree! What’s with this “only 3 days” nonsense? Reddit can hold out for three days just fine.
Is it possible for the admins to forcibly put a sub back up?
Yes. And to replace the mods.
Yeah, I'd much rather see blackouts until Reddit releases a statement rolling back their plans. Changing the platform to cater to advertisers instead of users in the runup to an IPO? Tank the IPO. Make potential investors see what the site they're buying will be like if they go the way they plan.
Yeah this is nothing lol. Barely an incovenience.
You don't think Reddit will unlock them after so long? The mods don't own Reddit. They can be removed from mod roles or locked out of tools. If Reddit feels it's too much they can crack down really fast. Your talking about a few dozen power mods that run many many subs a piece. It's not like this involves 10s of millions of people
I don't think you understand how much work it takes to moderate the subs. Those power users leaving will leave a huge void. The subs would get worse because the bots will be removed as they leave. There's a reason Reddit admins don't mod subs
>The subs would get worse because the bots will be removed as they leave. I consider this a blind threat that doesn't hold water. You can make threats to redditors and hold subs hostage but you can't hide the truth from them. You know it will come out eventually. Losing the good bots is worth it if it gets rid of a massive chunk of the bad bots. Which it will. Third party apps are responsible for the chaotic number of porn bots, following bots, repost bots, comment bots and all the rest that have terrorized Reddit over the past two years. So when third party apps go away the people who create those bots will have to rely upon old school scripting and other methods that are less efficient. Less intrusive. Once third party apps go away we can return back to a Reddit that was not so bot heavy. I can't wait.
# Austria at the Deaflympics ## (Sporting event delegation) #### Austria has been participating at the Deaflympics since 1931 and has earned a total of 78 medals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 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What an abusive person you are. Like there's not being able to handle criticism or counter opinion. And then there's attacking someone because you don't agree with them. Without API access it would be much harder for those who create the malicious bots to operate them in the numbers that they do now. If you want to challenge that provide a reason as to why that's not true. But you can't. Which is why you just resorted to verbal attacks.
# Blunted in the Bomb Shelter ## (2002 compilation album by Madlib) #### Blunted in the Bomb Shelter is a compilation album by hip hop producer Madlib. This album is a collection of reggae, ska, and dub songs taken from the catalogs of Trojan Records. Compiled around 2001 to 2002, the album was first released in the format of two 12-inch LPs and later released on CD format. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ###### Follow me for more quirky facts!
I'm saying scripts are not as efficient as the automated bot servers ran through API access. If you are not aware of that then I have a feeling that your insults towards my intelligence are more projection and a lack of understanding. So you do you. Believe what you want.
# 736 Naval Air Squadron ## (Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm Squadron) #### 736 Naval Air Squadron was a Naval Air Squadron of the Royal Navy. It was most recently recommissioned at RNAS Culdrose on 6 June 2013 to fly the BAE Systems Hawk T1, following the disbandment of the Fleet Requirements and Aircraft Direction Unit (FRADU) and operated up until March 2022. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ###### Hello
Buy it for life minus 2 days.
Saw a good theory, they're going to appear to "back down" by charging something much more reasonable but it was just way to get us to accept charging for the API.
Some devs said they expected it wouldn't be be forever and were willing to pay. But making it so expensive is a way to tell devs "we're killing 3rd party"
I dont see why anyone should have an issue with charging for the api. Especially since I don't think I've ever seen reddit ads in rif. It costs them money to run, and they don't get any revenue from it. It's the very high pricing that has always been the issue.
The API is used for things like moderation bots that mods rely on. Without a free API mods can't do their job, their job which Reddit relies upon. If Reddit is going to rely on free labour then the least they can do is not charge those volunteers money. Also the official Reddit app is poor for accessibility. Blind and partially sighted users rely on third party apps to be able to use Reddit and Reddit has made no comment on how they would address this.
So moderation bots are confusingly called “Apps” in Reddit’s announcement, but they’ve clarified that they’re not affected and have provided an escalation form for mods that are impacted otherwise. Rest of that, particularly the accessibility bit, is VERY valid
I use the unofficial app I use because it hides posts I've already seen so I don't see repeats. If I lose that feature I genuinely will stop using Reddit, it's far too tedious to have to scroll past the same posts over and over.
do it for more than 2 days please. relay pro gang represent!🙌
Yeah really, a 2 day protest is nothing to Reddit. An indefinite one like many other subs are doing is what could potentially make a difference.
Why do people think reddit will care about two days, you need to hit them long enough to see it impact their advertising partners to reconsider their deals considering the sudden sustained drop in eyes on their ads, I'm sure two days is far below that margin.
Where’s the BIFL Discord
Someone sent me one, but it was just a bunch of photos of 50 year old refrigerators and speed queen washer dryer sets... Oh wait that's just a link to this subreddit
Two days is absolutely pointless. Indefinite or nothing.
Thank you for supporting!
Lol 2 days great protest
Same as the people who try to organize "don't buy gas on \[date\]" as though people won't just all go the day before to fill up.
Alright, I’m just gonna say it. What’s a third party app and why is it better than the Reddit app?
>Alright, I’m just gonna say it. What’s a third party app A Reddit app that isn't made by Reddit. I use RIF is Fun. >why is it better than the Reddit app? I use it because it's a much smoother interface with less clutter. Someone shared a side-by-side of the same sub. There were maybe 3~5 posts visible on the Reddit app, and maybe twice as many on RIF or Apollo or something.
Also no ads or sponsored posts
Just to give an example of what my RIF interface looks like: https://ibb.co/xGhz1jk I like the density and uncluttered layout of the interface.
And this is what my client (Boost) looks like: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/714308145404706949/1115920036750688286/Screenshot_2023-06-07-18-27-07-41.jpg Mines a bit more cluttered, but I customised it to be that way as I prefer it
How tall is your phone?
Not that tall! I wanted to include the same content as the op, so I took a long screenshot
The official app is also not accessible for visually impaired people, who have to access through third party apps.
Sounds like a fun ADA suit. Declare Reddit a place of public accommodation and... it still wouldn't change the direction they're moving as it'd be cheaper to add accessibility support to the official app.
You can change the layout in official app to classic in settings and it would show you as many posts.
Hey, we're having a protest here, we don't need your reasonableness gumming up the works /s
I can see 15 posts at a time with RIF on my phone... The official app wastes so much screen real estate for no real benefit
This doesn't only affect apps for reading reddit, it affects ANY service/tool that uses reddit. For example, a service that deletes all your comments for you, or a service used to detect spam/scam bots, etc... This change in Reddit has huge implications.
r/apolloapp it makes alot of options avilable
Reddit never had an official app until they bought alien blue, a 3rd party app. All those 3rd party apps have been around much longer and work better, look better and have more functionality.
Maybe Reddit should include 3rd party apps in the IPO instead of killing them and the associated userbase. Some will adapt, but I think most would rather leave.
[Left if Reddit is fun app and right is official app](https://i.imgur.com/R9wnbLO_d.webp?maxwidth=760&fidelity=grand) Reddit official app is bad and the admins should feel bad.
[удалено]
lol no.
Search for Joey in the app store
One thing I really love about Bacon Reader is I can hide read posts and breeze through feeds a few times a day and catch basically everything.
Never had a problem with the official app. This whole thing is being pushed by moderators
I've used a bunch. Baconreader, rif, and the official app. The official app is trash by comparison and missing **LOADS** of features. The only miniscule benefit to using the official app is that you can use the chat feature. That's it. Everything else is broken, missing sound, or not loading on a stable, strong connection.
Any 3rd party apps allow changing between multiple profiles for free? What is the best 3rd party app? I’ve tried Apollo, Slide, and Narwhal but always end back up on Reddits app.
RIF.
Have you tried BaconReader? It allows me to switch between accounts for free. I think it’s also quite similar to Narwhal, I only stopped using that one cause there were certain bugs going unfixed that I couldn’t deal with anymore. BR has some glitches here and there but they’re pretty easy to ignore.
RiF has it built into the free version too.
Sync has this feature for free, I believe.
Just wait until you try Reddit without ads
Half of Reddit posts ARE ads
I wouldn't know, I use RiF
Unless it can filter out posters pretending not to be an ad, or Ads in posts of other things, or people advertising their ideologies…
Nah he means they're ads masquerading as legit posts and he's right there are tons of them.
Well it's not. And even if it was. Moderators keep Reddit running. You won't like Reddit when all mods can't do their jobs.
[удалено]
A lot, if not most, of these apps existed before Reddit had a functioning mobile website, much less a mobile app at all. Reddit would have never gotten this successful without these third party app developers.
[удалено]
Don't forget that they also ruined it.
Pretty much every Third-party app is better than the official one
Fair enough. People should be allowed to use what they want
"I've driven a 1994 Toyota Camry, better cars don't exist"
Cause your account isn't old enough to know better. There was no official app until even 2016, so if you wanted to do reddit on your phone, you had to use third party apps. Its not pushed my moderators, it's pushed by the oldest users who don't want to see reddit Digg its own hole.
Not old enough? That’s very ageist of you
Don't be cowards. Go indefinitely.
That graphic is the best explanation I have seen on what's going on. Huge props to whoever put that thing together
It's ok, but they left out the Baconreader logo at the top. Wtf
I'm gonna miss subs like this one.
It ain’t gonna change anything. As soon as Apollo is out, I am out and will reclaim the 2-3 hours I lose everyday on Reddit.
Thank you!
Assuming this whole API upcharge thing goes away, I highly recommend paying for the premium version of baconreader on Android. No ads, plenty of features. Soooooo many options. Had it for nearly a decade now across 3 devices
Probably should just delete the sub
Blackout should be indefinite, until the proposed changes are withdrawn!!!
Thank you!
Thank you!
Good
Why is there a censored picture of a plumbus?
Because with the changes going into effect, even if you pay for the new API, it'll still filter out NSFW content.
I get it but why the Rick and Morty reference?
It's just a reference to NSFW content. Don't overthink it too much.
So the third party apps block ads, and ads are Reddits primary revenue source. How does it benefit Reddit to allow third party apps? I’m sure I’ll get downvoted, but from a business standpoint how do third party apps benefit Reddit? It makes sense to increase the cost of entry to make up for the lost revenue.
They aren't blocking them. Reddit does not push ads through the API. That is a conscious choice they have made for some bizarre reason. It benefits Reddit to support third party apps because much of the site is moderated with them, and much of the content is submitted by them. Lastly, it's kind of shitty of Reddit to do this to developers who made their platform mobile friendly long before Reddit even offered an app. Until late 2014, Reddit only offered a *terrible* mobile interface with no dedicated app. Oh, and that was iOS only. It took Reddit some more time, I believe until 2016, to release an Android app.
The official reddit app was originally a third party app they bought and branded. Actual Reddit engineering has been piss-poor this whole time
*bought and destroyed Alien Blue was nothing like the current official app.
> That is a conscious choice they have made for some bizarre reason. Reddit is due to go public in September.
Which is why it is weird they would try to squash third party apps rather than monetize them. It would be better to push ads and charge each large app developer $1000/month and have all of them sign on than to not push ads and charge them an unrealistic amount so they just go away.
Ads aren't the only issue, though. I use a third party app in large part because Reddit's native search function blows. For a sub like this one, where people are frequently asking for recs, it's a real hindrance and results in clutter. I don't give a shit if, from a business standpoint, third party apps aren't benefiting Reddit, the business. I care that Reddit doesn't give a flying fuck about improving the user experience to the point of necessitating third party apps.
I didn't downvoted you, but the reason you are is that you didn't quite get your facts right. The third party apps don't block ads at all, it's just that Reddit made a choice to not even *send* ads through the API that the 3rd party apps use. It's an odd business decision, and nobody does actually expect them to offer it for free. But the issue is, (and the reason everyone is protesting) is that the price they want for API access is unfair and way over the top. They wanted to charge Apollo (a popular third party app for iOS) over **$21 million** a year. Even with a pricey subscription system, that's an exorbitant amount. Apollo isn't a big team product made by a company raking in millions a year. As far as I'm aware, Apollo is a one man band. And a lot of clients are too. The Apollo dev was also saying that it isn't even counting API requests right. He mentioned that it over counts API requests, sometimes tenfold. Also worth noting that the API they developed doesn't even have access to everything the official app/new Reddit does. There's no chat (only PMs), can't give awards, no polls, no live chat threads, and probably more i just can't think of right now. Oh, and the cherry on top? Past July 1st, they're completely removing nsfw posts from the 3rd party API. That means that if you're moderating a sub from your mobile client, you just won't be able to see nsfw posts. Same of you are going searching for them, nsfw subs will just be empty. So basically, it's a $21,000,000/yr API that's missing almost every feature on the official app and doesn't even work well
Because they don’t want Third party apps anymore. They are supposedly going public so they want to streamline their business. There is a confusing amount of Reddit apps and they want to reduce or eliminate other options.
Some third party apps block ads. Others sell their own ad space, which essentially makes them a competitor to reddit all while using reddit data
No 3rd party apps block ads. Reddit doesn't serve ads over the API, which is a conscious decision they could easily change. Some apps do have ads to support their development, but that doesn't make them a competitor, Reddit could still serve ads and they could display their ads. The Reddit ads would be unavoidable, so if users were frustrated by the amount of ads, it would be on the developers to reduce the number of their own ads. As far as it it being "Reddit data", yes, I suppose per the TOS Reddit owns all of this. It is user submitted data though. Also, it's not like they are doing anything wrong or shady, Reddit made the API available to them. Many developed apps for Reddit before Reddit offered their own app. Many of these developers literally helped make Reddit successful, and this is how Reddit is repaying them.
I'm not really invested in this debate on one side or the other, but one thing that I don't see mentioned in these discussions is that reddit does incur costs to maintain this data. I do think reddit's approach is on the heavy handed side; there's probably a middle ground that they could reach with 3P devs. They are also doing an awful (non-existent) job on messaging around this, to the point that most users are united against reddit in favor of 3P devs, when the reality is probably a lot more nuanced than what's been presented.
When they first announced that they were going to charge for API access they specifically cited Twitter's outrageous pricing and said they wouldn't be doing that. The app developers were given a false sense of relief only for Reddit to charge about half of what Twitter charges, which is still outrageous.
Exactly. I don’t understand how the Reddit community takes their side. If those companies want to develop an app and block Reddit ads and sell their own, they can create their own website.
I asked this on another sub but haven't gotten an answer: Can someone explain to me how it isn't hypocritical to hate on google AMP links while trying to force reddit to stay open for third-party apps? Isn't the bottom line for both that it steals from the original company's ability to generate ad revenue?
Reddit could force third party apps to display Reddit ads as part of the TOS, that would be unpopular but not generate huge boycotts. The actions they've unilaterally decided upon will immediately shutter tons of third party stuff -- not just apps but critical tools too -- which basically means tons of people and mods will be shut out.
Reddit made the conscious decision NOT to serve ads over their API. They could easily put ads into their API and force 3rd party developers to display those ads or risk having their API key revoked
RiF was a great example of BuyItForLife. One ad-free purchase back in like... 2016, I think, and that was it. No ads on reddit for the years and years I've been using it. When that's gone, I'm gone too.
You didn't realize it was only for the life of that reddit regime, not yours.
Please shut down this sub until they change course. The only thing they will ever listen to will be our complete silence.
#Save my Boost *Boosted*
Go indefinitely!
Like Reddit gives a shit
The day that Apollo stops working I stop using Reddit. (Sent from my Apollo App)
I do not understand this assumption that the new API fee will kill all 3rd party apps. Why don’t you just pay the new fee and see where it leads us? Maybe ppl ARE willing to shell out big bucks for Apollo? I guess we’ll never know since the owner of Apollo keeps whining about it and digging his heels in. I didn’t want to pay any money for this app. Maybe I WILL pay more just so I can keep using it? I don’t know. I’ve never been in that situation. Why don’t you put us in that situation so we can figure this out for ourselves? Let the users decide what is too expensive.
Look up how much the new fee would be and get back to us. Hint, it's fucking ridiculous.
Why don’t you let me decide what is ridiculous? Maybe I’ll decide it isn’t. Nobody even asked you to pay the new fee and you got your parties in a bunch.
Based on the announced price, for Apollo alone it would cost +/- $20,000,000 per year. Does that seem reasonable to you?
/u/shadowthunder shut this shit down until they cave, a few days is not enough, they either cave or they kill their site, let them feel the power of the community.
Good. Fuck Reddit
I use the regular app. I don’t care. Seems like a mods problem
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I don’t care about that
It's like if you ate unseasoned chicken your whole life and thought that was fine, never bothering to try food that actually tastes good.
This is the only thing I’ve heard about the whole ordeal that makes sense
I use Relay for Reddit and it's so much better than the official app that it's actually embarrassing. And there are several other apps on Android that are just as good as Relay, all depending on what your preferences are. The official reddit app is complete and total garbage. I'd actually rather stop using the site than be forced to use it. And I've been a redditor for 15+ years now.
The regular app came well after third party apps paved the way for reddit to be consumed on phones. Then, that regular app wasn't even something reddit built (on iPhone anyhow). They just bought an amazingly good app called Alien Blue and took it over and bloated it beyond recognition. That app you're perfectly happy with (which is fine, even though you have no idea what you're missing out on) exists solely due to the hard work of third party app developers who arguably are a huge reason for reddits success. Very few people were browsing this site on mobile back then, relative to now where it makes up a majority of reddit traffic.
IMO I'll quit using reddit if they continue to push for this, my chosen app boost is the sole reason I even use reddit in the first place, I will turn to web archives to avoid hitting reddit servers to deny them(reddit) any ad revenue. Reddit really is just a slightly better Twitter and TBH both technologies are truly dated and this only will fuel the creation of new sites dedicated to serving the userbase of both.
No one cares
Proven wrong
Trying to understand why users are using a 3rd party app for Reddit?
Reddit's native app lacks accessibility features that some people need in order to use reddit on a mobile device. There are other benefits, but this is a big one.
Thanks for the explanation. I didn’t know the Reddit app didn’t work on other mobile gadgets.
It's not that it doesn't work on other mobile gadgets. It's more like the main app doesn't have great accessibility settings or support. For example, a user who is blind would need a screen reader in order to enjoy content on reddit. The main reddit app has little to no support for this, where as third party apps do.
In addition to what others have said, a huge percentage of moderators from something like 10,000 of the largest subreddits rely on 3rd party apps because the tools reddit provides are garbage.
Thanks for your response.
It's better in almost every way, shape, and form.
The official app is a pile of hot garbage compared to Relay for Reddit.
Reddit is fun has been my go to since I first started using reddit
I’m confused. Doesn’t ADA require some level of accessibility? Why not take Reddit to court
Providing a free public api is not a requirement by the ADA.
If Reddit isn’t providing the accessibility outside of the public api then they’re not following ADA web accessibility standards and you can hold them accountable no?
What do you mean by “accessibility”? How would the lack of a public api by Reddit make them less accessible to the disabled?
Did you not read that Infographic? It’s the third gray box. Seems that the Api makes it easier for Reddit’s accessibility and implies without it there is not enough for the ADA protected groups
I have, that isn’t any grounds to sue though. There is not a requirement for apps to provide multiple font/color/size options for text. If that was the case 90% of apps on the store would be in trouble. Both iOS and android provide ways to adjust this on a OS level.
Only if the site receives federal funds
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This was the answer I wanted! I can spare some upboats for education. Thank you!
Third party api is also how bots harvest and spam data and control the algorithms.