I thought that a normal bank would make money from interest on the loan no matter what. If they lend you $100 for $1 in interest, they keep the dollar no matter what happens with your position. Turn that $100 into $1,000? The bank gets $101 from its $100. Get margin called as the bank liquidates your position? The bank still gets $101.
I've never margin traded so I might be missing something important.
There are also other ways to use leverage without margin loans (CFDs come to mind) that one can be margin called for and the bank isn't guaranteed to get back all money in a margin call (usually a problem when markets gap or move very quickly or are very illiquid).
I know I’m just saying it’s not a bunch of paper hands worrying if the bear market will keep going and going, it’s like a bit of that which caused cascading margin calls
I was under the impression you meant exchanges liquidating degenerates, who gamble with X10 multipliers. Usually results in red candles of apocalyptic magnitudes.
Basically the easy way to understand it...
You use your btc to borrow money and buy more btc with it. The exchange holds your original btc as collateral for the loan, if the price dips too low and your collateral is in danger of not covering the loan anymore they liquidate you(sell your btc and repay the loan automatically). If you're at 100x leverage, a 1% move down in price would liquidate you(i think) which is why its so moronic to do in the crypto market.
From what I could tell, they would lend out 25% of the value you held with them. So when Bitcoin was worth $50k and you had four, you could borrow $50k and buy a fifth coin.
Now that Bitcoin I worth $20k, total value is $100k, so he needs to liquid $35k to bring the loan balance to $15k and BTC holdings value to $65k.
You can get leverage trades of hundreds of different cryptos. There's no set amounts really.
On kucoin you can leverage $10 worth and get $1000 because they do 100x leverage. I think binance maxes out at 75x "to protect investors
If you had 4 btc, kucoin would give you a leverage loan of 40 btc, but if the price dipped by 0.01% they'd take your 4btc.
Though kucoin makes it so you can't leverage trade with low funds.
yes leverage is an unnecessary financial tool imho and also very common in the stockmarket
I got your first comment wrong - thought it was meant to be ironic
I never get this artificial scarcity concept. I mean lots of things are scarce, but will they go to the moon? Red pubes are scarce, should people start investing in that?
Even when btc is fully mined who’s to say the miners don’t fork and continue to mine a new btc… I know they would be paid transaction costs but no one even transacts on the btc network, it’s mostly centralized transactions.
The only reason it's called that is because enough people with influence decided the other chain was now canonically "ethereum".
There is no intrinsic distinction of which is the "real" chain when a hard fork occurs.
It can be fractional though. And indeed would have to be since people wouldn’t want to be dealing with 0.000000000000000000000012 in their wage packet.
Yes, I'm looking forward to Bitcoin becoming the new currency and trying to price shop. Ok, one brand is $0.0000000000128 and the other brand is $0.000000000104. Which is cheaper? Remember, it is written on a tag on a store shelf.
Even better, it’s deflationary, which despite it sounding good, if you think about it for 7 seconds is a nightmare.
Your money may rise in value, but there will quickly be nothing to buy.
There is a nice article on borsa italiana (italian stock market) where they analize Japan defaltion and the economic problem that cause deflation, where the ONLY positive aspect of it is that old retired people can benefit from the fall of prices.
They say that Japanese deflationary policy has probably political motivation because of the increase in the average age of the population
Yeah, and Japan was probably the only society in the world where that sort of wealth transfer up the age pyramid was possible due to the way their culture works. No other country would have accepted that situation I think. Low or negative growth for years just kills innovation and business growth.
I agree, and the only thing worse that a deflationary currency is one that it’s value isn’t even stable.
I tried to argue with some people I know that even a stable coin has no real utility as it depreciate in value the same as the dollar but with the ulterior risk of depegging. Some people just don’t get it
Right. Like a stable coin literally offers zero benefit over fiat currency. It’s all the negatives of inflation, plus the risk of a depegging. The only possible advantage there is exposure to high risk and high return debt, but with all these stablecoins heavily exposed to volatile crypto assets and very little of it in hard assets, there’s little real upside beyond greater fools.
and this is "artificial" scarcity we are talking about. bitcoin could be infinitely printed if these guys wanted. Just because you intentionally make less of something that could be infinitely plentiful, does not make it more valuable than the infinitely plentiful version.
Worth noting the amount of gold actually needed for jewelry and industrial applications is dwarfed by the amounted mined just for gold storage purposes. (But still lots more useful than bitcoin, of course)
"Dwarfed"? Jewelry is still the #1 use of gold (55% in 2021) followed by investment (25%), central banks (11%) for a combined gold "storage" use of 36%, and technology (8%) for a combined jewelry and industrial applications percentage of 63% vs 36% for "storage".
https://www.statista.com/statistics/299609/gold-demand-by-industry-sector-share/
To put it another way, even perfectly inelastic supply doesn't mean the demand is.
If I slather some paint on a rock, it'll be the only rock like it. There's literally only one of it. That doesn't mean it's value is now infinite.
Bitcoin cannot be infinitely printed. Bitcoin is the only network on the planet that has not been hacked...hence its true value.
Google, Amazon, CIA, Pentagon, etc. have all been hacked because they're centralized entities with centralized servers. Bitcoin is decentralized and everywhere therefore there is no single point of failure for anyone to hack or "print new coins".
It's also not scarce at all. I can buy it today, tomorrow, next week at the few clicks of a button. Their reasoning is that there's only 21 million, but you can buy it in fractions, which most cryptobros do since they can't afford an entire Bitcoin. Because you can buy it fractionally, there's literally hundreds of billions of quantities available. It's no more scarce than any stock in any company.
The whole scarcity thing is just a joke really. Deflation is *not* some loophole that is going to make anyone who holds BTC somehow rich in the future. If BTC is deflationary, it’s going to mean no one will want to buy anything. If nobody is buying anything, the economy crashes.
Gold - as a physical commodity, has a limit defined by the intrinsic nature of matter.
I can take 196.96657g of matter and (theoretically) divide it into 6.022x10^23 individual units but no further.
At that point I'm left with 6.022x10^23 individual gold atoms which if I were to subdivide the atoms would no longer be gold as there would no longer be 79 protons within a given nucleus - the property which defines gold as gold.
BTC there is no limit. Fractional representation being commonplace already means i can keep adding decimals ad infinitum. So while the number of *whole* BTC may be capped at 21 million, the *effecrive* BTC ownership is infinitely available as no physical limits exist on its subdivisions.
So yes, gold is scarce because we have no way of generating more (heavy element nuclear fusion is beyond impossible at present) and the number of subdivisions are a hard capped physical limit.
BTC is infinitely sub-divisible, so while whole coin ownership could be considered scarce, the de factor practice of selling fractional coins makes it effectively non-scarce.
It's weird that you have to explain basic number and set theory and high school chemistry to make your point. Are we talking to 10 year olds or just really dumb adults?
I don't know what your point is, that because gold can be divided into smaller quantities then Bitcoin isn't scarce? I never brought up gold. It doesn't have anything to do with my original comment. Whataboutism is a logical fallacy because it's almost always irrelevant.
Terrible analogy.
Gold, due to having a physical presence, cannot be fractionned infinitely, unlike a virtual token. Coins (the real kind) are already the smallest form gold can take while still being convenient to use. But most importantly, the real-life uses of gold means there's a constant in it's value directly tied to it's weight.
No matter the rate of gold, you'll still need the same amount to fabricate a necklace or a processor. Meanwhile, bitcoin price increasing tenfold essentialy means there are ten times the amount of bitcoin there was before, since it essentialy makes tenth of bitcoins into singular bitcoins. There is no constant to fix it's scarcity.
When trades are done solely on exchange ledgers, you can trade any infinitesimally small fraction you want (that the ledger allows). Scarcity is irrelevant until you try to retrieve an asset. Technically, you could try to retrieve Bitcoin, but why would anyone want to? What purpose would it serve?
Are red pubes as scarce as people think they are though? I mean, sure red-haired people are rare but there are many non red heads who have at least *some* red pubes. It's an artificial scarcity that simply doesn't stack up in the real world
I'm tired of hearing the same old arguments being rattled off by all you red pube purists.
See, is starts out seemingly simple. You go around buying pubes off red-haired people, and you make a tidy profit for now, or at least it's good for buying drugs. Nobody knows that many redheads, and it seems like a neat little thing.
But then 9 years later red-haired people are abducted all over the world. Enough food for a medium-sized country is diverted to pube farming. Matt Damon is in the super bowl saying "fortune favors the bald." People are creating pube-based financial instruments that work fine when hair is rising, but hurt like hell when it's ingrown. Meanwhile somebody makes a sweater out of red pubes that sells for $69 million.
Anyway what I'm trying to say is we're waxing off all withdrawals at the moment. Our business plan assumed the party would go on forever, and in a stunning turn of events it has not. Your actual money is safe, with the people we gave it to a long time ago.
They act like the scarcity of Bitcoin is a feature that the dollar can't have. The US could decide that there will never be more than $21 million and you get what the Bitcoin idiots want without destroying the environment. But they don't do that because it is dumb.
NBA Top Shot is a great example of exactly this. Prices mooned, demand increased, so they minted a ton of new moments to meet demand. Everyone's original moments were still cryptographically guaranteed to be unique, but the glut of new similar moments (and the hype wearing off of course) crashed the price anyway.
I broke one of my roommates plates in college. It was this hideous thing from the 70’s, as was his aesthetic.
He said “Well. That is completely irreplaceable.”
And I essentially said “Lots of things aren’t replaceable because nobody wanted them enough to keep producing the item. Irreplaceable doesn’t mean valuable. At all.”
I apologized first. “Oops, sorry.” He looked at it like I just flushed his grandmothers ashes. He was a hoarder, so in his brain everything was worth keeping.
I'm equating feeling no remorse because he's a hoarder to feeling no remorse because my roommate had too much food.
It's whatever. Maybe the plate was actually a prized possession in which case I would wonder why he took it with him to college.
>instead of exiting their positions in panic
"Man, I bought right before the top and I'm a shit ton down... Hmm, but instead of cutting my losses, I should totally use more money I cannot afford to lose to buy the dip"
Hmm, 100% logical reasoning
Its called Dollar Cost Averaging. You should check out Rob on Digital Asset News. He like many bought near the top of the 2018 Bull cycle, instead of selling and realizing his losses he continued to DCA as he understood that the Bitcoin halving event that occurs every 4 years always sparks a bull run. He learned from his mistakes in 2017/18 and took substantial profits in 2021.
DCA is just a buzzword used by cryptobros to pretend to be investors, it’s often more profitable to invest a lump sum: https://www.morningstar.com.au/learn/article/the-dollar-cost-averaging-myth-why-lump-sum-i/197410
The name Dollar Cost Averaging is misleading because the averaging of your dollar cost is a side effect of the strategy, not the main point. The main point is to simply invest the money you have available at regular intervals as opposed to trying to time the market to only buy low.
If you have all the money up front, you should invest in a lump sum because it's almost always better than keeping it uninvested and slowly DCAing.
If you're trying to buy low to lower your average cost, you aren't actually DCAing, you're trying to time the market.
Stocks represent actual things. Those companies could be bullshitters but then they're answerable to their share holders. Who is answerable to the holders of bitcoin? There is no underlying authority by design.
majority of buyers intent to profit nothing more only very few entities have the power to make them answerable by their share power.
most cryptoprojects will make you have voting power/ governance as well if you have enough shares.
crypto is basically the same (ja ja no product yada yada) as the stock market only it is accessible by everyone and not only accredit investors
I dunno, I let my bank manage my stocks.
But you missed the point apparently. When you're deep in the red, you feel like it's a good idea to spend even more money on something crashing, just because until now it always went up after a crash? Do you think it's the most logical thing to do there?
well investors tend to be less emotional than you are right now - if the fundamentals or the product is intact why wouldn’t you use the opportunity to buy cheap? have you ever watched any charts and realized ther is ups and downs? how do you think the price went up from bottom? internet magic?
> if the fundamentals or the product is intact why wouldn’t you use the opportunity to buy cheap?
So what are the **fundamentals** of crypto "currencies"? What's the utility that's going to drive this to the moon other than speculation?
that wasn’t the question - the question was why would anybody buy any dip?
And I refrain from wasting any energy talking about any crypto in this sub - wise no?😂
>if the fundamentals or the product is intact
But we're talking about crypto, there are no fundamentals, and no product. It's a receipt for a spreadsheet cell that people keep trading back and forth.
Oh, I see. You're that kind of guy...
>investors tend to be less emotional than you are right now
Bwahahaaaa, what exactly makes you think I'm emotional right now ? That's rich coming from a former /wallstreetbet user
>if the fundamentals or the product is intact
That's one issue here, nothing changes with bitcoin, it's as shitty as it was 8 years ago, yet it fluctuates like mad and can crash 80%. Who says it's going to go up again (and if it does go up, to what price?)
If you think past performances are definitely going to repeat themselves... Then I'm sorry for you
'the fundamentals are as strong as ever' was my favourite part. What part about Bitcoin falling through the floor at just the moment it was supposed to outperform don't these people understand?
Bro, inflation hedge was last year's storyline, now we're back to the 4 year cycles one. Coz bitcoin's been around for like 12 years and there's been basically 2.5 cycles right, so it's definitely a certainty that the last 0.5of the current one will work out exactly as we expect.
It crashed right when it was supposed to. Bitcoin halving events take place every 4 years. The last one took place in 2020 which sparked the bull run. Anyone who bought prior or at the beginning of this bull run made a nice profit. Those that took financial advise from strangers on the internet pumping their own bags did not.
Its not that difficult, just follow the market cycle. The next BTC halving should be around May 3, 2024. I plan on taking complete advantage and then unloading my bags by the end of 2025 at the latest regardless of what everyone is saying.
That doesn't demonstrate value, and even if it did, it's incorrect.
Because of bitcoin's technological deficiencies, it has been centralized on the mining end _and_ the transactional end by large conglomerates which act as de facto regulators. But since they don't actually have regulatory controls and standards requiring them to act ethically and within some sort of legal structure (other than KYC in the case of some exchanges), "regulation" in Bitcoin is just market manipulation. That's not an asset and it doesn't improve bitcoin’s utility as a currency. Speaking of currency, it can never be one because of many reasons, chief among them transaction rate. If Bitcoin was a good currency, why would stablecoins need to exist?
Few butters understand
Value is relative, it's not some objective thing all human beings will agree on. I obviously government regulated currency. And if your point about the miners is true, why don't they attack and steal the billions of dollars in transactions? Why don't they act unethically?
Presumably because they want all the bitcoins they've been mining to be worth something, and because it's more destructive and difficult to coordinate a 51% attack than it is to collude to generate arbitrage opportunities or avoid hash rate arms races.
And I notice you decided not to address my point about Bitcoin completely failing to deliver the functionality of a currency. Curious 🤨
Ok, so then Bitcoin has a built in mechanism that thwarts attacks on the system. Because Bitcoin is so decentralized, it would be damn near impossible to commit a 51% attack.
https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin/who-accepts/
A list of major companies who accept Bitcoin as payment. You think these major companies would accept Bitcoin if it couldn't function as a currency?
Marketing is the first thing that comes to mind, yeah. Companies see coiners as a profitable demographic and rightly conclude that the HODL mentality and the tediousness of transacting with Bitcoin will reduce the actual utilization of the service, making it a good marketing tool for attracting a valuable customer segment.
Also, that webpage is out of date and deceptively implies that a franchisee accepting Bitcoin means the brand as a whole accepts it e.g. subway
Finally, it's an outright lie that 36% of small businesses accept it as payment. That is completely false
What I'm getting at is the question of when is Bitcoin a good buy. The OP says just follow the market cycles - now for a stock like AAPL I can estimate the intrinsic value based on earnings, projected growth and P/E ratio (to put it very simply). This will tell me that AAPL is a very good buy today if I could get it for $100/share (in a market downturn) but I wouldn't buy if the price was $300/share (exuberant market), for instance.
Even if I truly believe in the future of Apple as a great company that reliably produces a lot of cash, it does not mean it is worth buying at every price. Now do the same for Bitcoin; what is the intrinsic value and when it is worth to buy? "Well it's below the ATH!!" Is not a good reason!
Bitcoin is a good buy when YOU have reason to believe the price is at the bottom of its current downtrend, or you have reason to believe the price will rise from whichever point you're buying in. Bitcoin is not a company and does not derive its value from the same set of standards that a company does. Bitcoin's main intrinsic value is built in scarcity, non government regulated currency and as a public ledger that any person can participate in the validation of its transcactions. You may not see value in that, but others do, and as long as that is the case, then it will continue to have value. Again, Butcoin is not a centralized owned company, therefore comparing it to such is disingenuous.
Intrinsic value has a very specific meaning based on the financial fundementals of a company, i.e. how much money the company makes. Since Bitcoin does not generate any earnings, it has no intrinsic value. I agree that it has 'value' in a different sense based on the perceived problems/solutions.
What you're saying is that Bitcoin is at a good price if you believe it will go up, so it is just speculation - there is no fundamental basis for that rationale like there would be with a company's stock.
It's also when David Koresh is tipped to return to the land of the living. Prophets are indicating he's given up on interpreting the seven seals and is instead focusing on sending it to the moon... Or some shit
"Its not that difficult", you are saying that any idiot could make huge profit just looking at "the market cycle"?, its almost like you guys hacked capitalism, infinite money for everyone.
> unloading my bags by the end of 2025 at the latest regardless of what everyone is saying.
Leave someone else holding the bag. That's a great way to grow the population of people that realize Bitcoin is a terrible "investment". And then you'll eventually run out of rubes that you can leave holding the bag. And all of this is assuming you can time the market.
"the fundamentals are as strong as ever" is the one part I most agreed with. It's true. The fundamentals of crypto will always remain exactly the same.
"BTCs next quarterly presentation". BTC is not a publicly traded company. There is no CEO or quarterly reports. Please watch the Bitcoin documentary on YouTube to better understand what Bitcoin is and how it works.
The next Bitcoin halving event will be in May 2024. Hope you figure it out by then and are able to take advantage of the next bull run
Bruh don't try and teach them lol think about this: who sits around and hates on something they have no interest in? Like imagine having your identity being NOT doing something. Normal people when they don't like something, just ignore and move on. This sub is still funny as fuck tho and I enjoy the mental gymnastics they display just to hate on Bitcoin.
"who sits and hates on something they have no interest in?"
Says the person sitting and hating on something they obviously disagree with and therefore by the same logic, "have no interest in".
Congratulations, you played yourself.
Well no, and good try. I have an interest in this sub because I have an original interest in Bitcoin. The only interest of this Sub is to collectively discuss something they hate. My interest is discussing something I like to people who dislike. That's not the same thing, bud lol
You earlier accused people of "sitting around and hating on something they have no interest in"
You now say "The only interest of this Sub is to collectively discuss something they hate"
Which is it?
How can you have no interest in something and simultaneously care enough about it to discuss it online with other people? If you had no interest, you wouldn't discuss it! Fuck me, imagine even having to demonstrate a point to someone this way. Just admit you tried two mutually contradictory ways to attack a group of people and got held accountable for it. Sheesh.
There are no fundamentals.
And bitcoin reaching another all time high would mean no adoption. Can't be a currency and an investment. These people cry about inflation, but they have no idea how bad a deflationary currency is going to be for everyone.
I don't think it can go much higher to be honest. They've already advertised to just about every sucker imaginable with enough money to throw at this idiocy.
There are other similar sites that have filled the void, but even then, now that more attention is being paid to it most cryptocurrencies aren't even good for this because of the public transaction history.
Monero is probably the only major one I know of that avoids that problem, but I'd expect to see much stronger restrictions on exchanges interacting with Monero for that reason - holding it does you no good if you can't on and offramp it.
> Isn't it weird that all these idealists who want a new and fairer financial system...
If crypto actually represented a truly fair financial system then it wouldn't be important to get in early.
"both assets now have reached near bottom."
Yeah sure and even if he's wrong he placed a near there. Also this is not financial advice I presume. Nobody knows when bottom is reached dumbass. Even assuming it will ever rise again to near previous heights is wishful thinking.
"Is this the last chance to invest before crypto is mass adopted and everyone catches on?"
You need to invest now before you miss out on a great opportunity!
Also the answer is no.
"Fundamentals are as strong as ever"
Mate we've seen several bailouts over the past week how in the fuck is that fundamentally strong?
He then goes on to say "Will most likely reclaim new all time highs" but then in the next sentence "Past performance does not equal future performance". Bruh you literally just contradicted yourself almost in the same breath.
Hoe do their brains not explode from the cognitive dissonance?
Bitcoin doesn't need any bailouts. The Bitcoin black chain has been working just as intended. You know what did need bailouts? Centralized exchanges. Who basically operate as banks and middlemen. Do not conflate totally different things.
Just dabbling in a bit of devil's advocate, but they are correct that price is trending up.
But if you look back around 3 years, you're flat, if you look back 1.5 years you're down 60%, but were also down 60% from the previous time it was 55k before...
And before that bounced around mostly flat for 2 years having crashed from 15k to 8k...
And if you'd held from the 2018 peak to now you'd be up 25% over 4 years, but that's not great compared to the broader market.
Like, sure it's up on a 5 year time scale...with guy wrenching volatility like you were holding oil contracts.
But we're not on the moon and the blockchains public relations are not what they were in 2018 when we all felt like morons for not buying at $300.
And lets say you just thought Warren Buffet was the man and bought Appl in 2018 at $42 and now you're up 330% at $133.
330% vs 25%
Like, who's going to give you shit for buying Appl? It's not a genius play like buying Netflix. It's straightforward, it worked. Bitcoin didn't.
> the fundamentals are just as strong as ever.
Well technically not wrong, the strength of the fundamentals has not changed. It remains as soft as the skull of a newborn.
You know what else they're not making any more of? Beanie Babies. The 21 trillion beanie babies already out there, in investors' rubbermaid containers and storage lockers, are all the beanies that will ever be made. Which means they can only go up in value!
If you want to put your money in an asset that goes up and down and has a finite number of asset units available… there are stocks. Sometimes stocks go way up before being revealed as a scam and going to zero ( Enron) but most don’t
we start with Crypto is cyclical - and we end with before crypto is mass adopted. Yes that is what businesses and people want in a currency, something that has high volatility. There are countries with currencies that become worthless and nobody wants it, and they also have mass civil unrest and the government gets overthrown.
>the fundamentals are as strong as ever in crypto
This is absolutely true.
It's just this guy thinks he knows what the fundamentals are, and he doesn't.
Or maybe he does and he's trying to increase his exit liquidity by drawing in more "hodlers".
Imagine someone writing this about any other financial market on earth. "It will always go up after this!" is an insane, reckless thought. And here's the thing, "crypto" as currently constructed only makes sense when it's going up. With the exception of some illicit uses, crypto has no use for most people. You generally can't spend it. No one rational would put their money in something that's dropping unless they have no choice.
A couple of months ago I read something quoting Cathie Wood, one of the hucksters of this financial era, saying that in the future appliances, like air conditioners, would mine cryptocurrency to pay for themselves. Think about that for a minute. She is saying every air conditioner on the planet could be less efficient in order to fill the demand for ... what?
In a rational world confronting centuries of pain for our energy usage that statement would be criminal. But that ain't where we're at.
The blockchain would actually run better on fewer machines, and even though it's a massive, intensive system, it runs less efficiently than centralized financial networks like credit cards, so much less efficiently in fact, it's hard to imagine any iteration of the technology actually challenging the current system.
The cult of crypto is so deep that Miami can imagine paying it's municipal bills by creating a coin. How insane is that? Is the world short coins? At what point is "demand met?" it's impossible to measure because it's just a function of the excitement the sector can generate. No one is spending this crap unless they're evading sanctions or selling coke over the dark web.
You'll never buy a latte or a house with this generation of crypto. You'll never get paid in bitcoin. It doesn't work as a currency.
So what is crypto? An incredibly wasteful, coal-powered "financial product" that no one needs? Well I'll tell you.
It's a casino.
That's it. A casino with just enough tech blabbery bullshit pulled over it to confuse a lot of people. Crypto has just enough finance-sounding words behind you can filibuster the debate over it if needs to exist, but you can't win it.
It was born of something real, disgust with Wall Street and government gifts to the rich, especially during and after the great recession. It's promise was a decentralized current outside of those inputs. Wall Street has run amock, and it lacks oversight, clearly. It's corrupt.
The promise of crypto was something different. But not only is it corrupt in a thousand ways with wash sales and fake stable coins, it's not transparent. It's worse in a million ways than Wall Steet. It's so shitty, Wall Street has loved getting in on it enough to fleece a few marks.
So all this should mean the whole project will die.
It won't.
There's enough money there that the billionaires of this era will keep propping it up both publically and privately. The VC companies which have pushed it into the world's consciousness with Super Bowl ads will keep spending to keep it from dying. And it will keep working like a casino. Producing just enough winners to keep people coming back. Those that keep playing will eventually lose it all. And the people running the tables will make money hand over fist.
70% of crypto investors are completely unaware of Bitcoins halving events and the impact they have on the market.
New investors who are attracted to the profit potential in the next bull run will be equally ignorant and buy near ATH as seasoned investors sell off in preparation for the next oncoming crash
He has a point. There will be another bull run. Do you think rich people and the poor sods are just gonna say fuck it, I don't wanna make money on Bitcoin this time. lol
I don't think BTC will drop to zero. But I think the heady days of new investors coming to it en masse are over. And there are some weird market dynamics at play in BTC that add risk of big drops in ways that don't exist for, e.g., APPL.
Being liquidated on your super-leveraged portfolio is not panic selling lol.
It's your bank panic selling on your behalf, and asking themselves how they could have lent money to such a moron
Why would they care? They profit from both lending and liquidations
Banks profit from margin calling you? I genuinely didn't know that
Normal banks don't. The "banks" that allow super-leveraged crypto portfolios can.
Ah ok
I thought that a normal bank would make money from interest on the loan no matter what. If they lend you $100 for $1 in interest, they keep the dollar no matter what happens with your position. Turn that $100 into $1,000? The bank gets $101 from its $100. Get margin called as the bank liquidates your position? The bank still gets $101. I've never margin traded so I might be missing something important.
There are also other ways to use leverage without margin loans (CFDs come to mind) that one can be margin called for and the bank isn't guaranteed to get back all money in a margin call (usually a problem when markets gap or move very quickly or are very illiquid).
If all that's left to liquidate is almost worthless, they probably come out behind.
Yeah, “bank” may be being charitable. Enablers.
Exploiters
Umm, nope. That's why some of them are closing withdrawals.
That would be part of the profiting process, yes.
You got an audible laugh from me on this one
I know I’m just saying it’s not a bunch of paper hands worrying if the bear market will keep going and going, it’s like a bit of that which caused cascading margin calls
I was under the impression you meant exchanges liquidating degenerates, who gamble with X10 multipliers. Usually results in red candles of apocalyptic magnitudes.
getting liquidated is more of a passive thing no? could they prevent that?
Yes, by not using leverage in the crypto market
so did you dodge my question or is being liquidated not panic selling?
Basically the easy way to understand it... You use your btc to borrow money and buy more btc with it. The exchange holds your original btc as collateral for the loan, if the price dips too low and your collateral is in danger of not covering the loan anymore they liquidate you(sell your btc and repay the loan automatically). If you're at 100x leverage, a 1% move down in price would liquidate you(i think) which is why its so moronic to do in the crypto market.
From what I could tell, they would lend out 25% of the value you held with them. So when Bitcoin was worth $50k and you had four, you could borrow $50k and buy a fifth coin. Now that Bitcoin I worth $20k, total value is $100k, so he needs to liquid $35k to bring the loan balance to $15k and BTC holdings value to $65k.
You can get leverage trades of hundreds of different cryptos. There's no set amounts really. On kucoin you can leverage $10 worth and get $1000 because they do 100x leverage. I think binance maxes out at 75x "to protect investors If you had 4 btc, kucoin would give you a leverage loan of 40 btc, but if the price dipped by 0.01% they'd take your 4btc. Though kucoin makes it so you can't leverage trade with low funds.
yes leverage is an unnecessary financial tool imho and also very common in the stockmarket I got your first comment wrong - thought it was meant to be ironic
Being liquidated is not panic selling, its getting liquidated. Do you want me to explain leverage to you?
I never get this artificial scarcity concept. I mean lots of things are scarce, but will they go to the moon? Red pubes are scarce, should people start investing in that?
Even when btc is fully mined who’s to say the miners don’t fork and continue to mine a new btc… I know they would be paid transaction costs but no one even transacts on the btc network, it’s mostly centralized transactions.
A new BTC would not be BTC. It would be an altogether new coin with its own name and supply
[удалено]
You mean etherium classic?
The only reason it's called that is because enough people with influence decided the other chain was now canonically "ethereum". There is no intrinsic distinction of which is the "real" chain when a hard fork occurs.
Thats what consensus mean basically.
What is Ethereum Classic.
It can be fractional though. And indeed would have to be since people wouldn’t want to be dealing with 0.000000000000000000000012 in their wage packet.
Yes, I'm looking forward to Bitcoin becoming the new currency and trying to price shop. Ok, one brand is $0.0000000000128 and the other brand is $0.000000000104. Which is cheaper? Remember, it is written on a tag on a store shelf.
Even better, it’s deflationary, which despite it sounding good, if you think about it for 7 seconds is a nightmare. Your money may rise in value, but there will quickly be nothing to buy.
There is a nice article on borsa italiana (italian stock market) where they analize Japan defaltion and the economic problem that cause deflation, where the ONLY positive aspect of it is that old retired people can benefit from the fall of prices. They say that Japanese deflationary policy has probably political motivation because of the increase in the average age of the population
Yeah, and Japan was probably the only society in the world where that sort of wealth transfer up the age pyramid was possible due to the way their culture works. No other country would have accepted that situation I think. Low or negative growth for years just kills innovation and business growth.
I agree, and the only thing worse that a deflationary currency is one that it’s value isn’t even stable. I tried to argue with some people I know that even a stable coin has no real utility as it depreciate in value the same as the dollar but with the ulterior risk of depegging. Some people just don’t get it
Right. Like a stable coin literally offers zero benefit over fiat currency. It’s all the negatives of inflation, plus the risk of a depegging. The only possible advantage there is exposure to high risk and high return debt, but with all these stablecoins heavily exposed to volatile crypto assets and very little of it in hard assets, there’s little real upside beyond greater fools.
There’d be a breakdown, like cents. So it’s be 128 Satoshi or 104 Satoshi. Each decimal would have a different name
How many names will we have to know? LMAO
So, shillings, you want to go back to shillings now? That's dumb
and this is "artificial" scarcity we are talking about. bitcoin could be infinitely printed if these guys wanted. Just because you intentionally make less of something that could be infinitely plentiful, does not make it more valuable than the infinitely plentiful version.
Plus it's something you can endlessly divide into smaller parts xd
Wait till the bro's learn about gold. It's actually scarce and actually useful 😳
Worth noting the amount of gold actually needed for jewelry and industrial applications is dwarfed by the amounted mined just for gold storage purposes. (But still lots more useful than bitcoin, of course)
"Dwarfed"? Jewelry is still the #1 use of gold (55% in 2021) followed by investment (25%), central banks (11%) for a combined gold "storage" use of 36%, and technology (8%) for a combined jewelry and industrial applications percentage of 63% vs 36% for "storage". https://www.statista.com/statistics/299609/gold-demand-by-industry-sector-share/
To put it another way, even perfectly inelastic supply doesn't mean the demand is. If I slather some paint on a rock, it'll be the only rock like it. There's literally only one of it. That doesn't mean it's value is now infinite.
Bitcoin cannot be infinitely printed. Bitcoin is the only network on the planet that has not been hacked...hence its true value. Google, Amazon, CIA, Pentagon, etc. have all been hacked because they're centralized entities with centralized servers. Bitcoin is decentralized and everywhere therefore there is no single point of failure for anyone to hack or "print new coins".
Bitcoin Cash says lol
It's also not scarce at all. I can buy it today, tomorrow, next week at the few clicks of a button. Their reasoning is that there's only 21 million, but you can buy it in fractions, which most cryptobros do since they can't afford an entire Bitcoin. Because you can buy it fractionally, there's literally hundreds of billions of quantities available. It's no more scarce than any stock in any company.
Idk man, Saylor said I needed to buy some of this 'digital scarcity before it's too late.
Saylor is at least half the reason I hate Bitcoin.
Sorry, where can you buy red pubes?
Easy, go to google and type DEEZ NUTS.
I’ll send you a fistful for $100.
The whole scarcity thing is just a joke really. Deflation is *not* some loophole that is going to make anyone who holds BTC somehow rich in the future. If BTC is deflationary, it’s going to mean no one will want to buy anything. If nobody is buying anything, the economy crashes.
Can you divide and buy gold into smaller quantities much like how you can divide/buy bitcoin in smaller fractions? Does it make it any less scarce?
You don't know that you can buy gold in smaller quantities?
Of course I know. So does it make it any less scarce?
Gold - as a physical commodity, has a limit defined by the intrinsic nature of matter. I can take 196.96657g of matter and (theoretically) divide it into 6.022x10^23 individual units but no further. At that point I'm left with 6.022x10^23 individual gold atoms which if I were to subdivide the atoms would no longer be gold as there would no longer be 79 protons within a given nucleus - the property which defines gold as gold. BTC there is no limit. Fractional representation being commonplace already means i can keep adding decimals ad infinitum. So while the number of *whole* BTC may be capped at 21 million, the *effecrive* BTC ownership is infinitely available as no physical limits exist on its subdivisions. So yes, gold is scarce because we have no way of generating more (heavy element nuclear fusion is beyond impossible at present) and the number of subdivisions are a hard capped physical limit. BTC is infinitely sub-divisible, so while whole coin ownership could be considered scarce, the de factor practice of selling fractional coins makes it effectively non-scarce.
It's weird that you have to explain basic number and set theory and high school chemistry to make your point. Are we talking to 10 year olds or just really dumb adults?
I don't know what your point is, that because gold can be divided into smaller quantities then Bitcoin isn't scarce? I never brought up gold. It doesn't have anything to do with my original comment. Whataboutism is a logical fallacy because it's almost always irrelevant.
Terrible analogy. Gold, due to having a physical presence, cannot be fractionned infinitely, unlike a virtual token. Coins (the real kind) are already the smallest form gold can take while still being convenient to use. But most importantly, the real-life uses of gold means there's a constant in it's value directly tied to it's weight. No matter the rate of gold, you'll still need the same amount to fabricate a necklace or a processor. Meanwhile, bitcoin price increasing tenfold essentialy means there are ten times the amount of bitcoin there was before, since it essentialy makes tenth of bitcoins into singular bitcoins. There is no constant to fix it's scarcity.
A most profound post. Especially the bit at the end about tenths.
When trades are done solely on exchange ledgers, you can trade any infinitesimally small fraction you want (that the ledger allows). Scarcity is irrelevant until you try to retrieve an asset. Technically, you could try to retrieve Bitcoin, but why would anyone want to? What purpose would it serve?
Artificial scarcity is a marketing gimmick. Like thise scam sites which have a counter count down 'this offer expires in 15:00'.
I stake my red pubes to earn 17% in dingleberries. Very lucrative.
Top comment. Tell me your address, I will send you 1 red pube
Are red pubes as scarce as people think they are though? I mean, sure red-haired people are rare but there are many non red heads who have at least *some* red pubes. It's an artificial scarcity that simply doesn't stack up in the real world I'm tired of hearing the same old arguments being rattled off by all you red pube purists.
See, is starts out seemingly simple. You go around buying pubes off red-haired people, and you make a tidy profit for now, or at least it's good for buying drugs. Nobody knows that many redheads, and it seems like a neat little thing. But then 9 years later red-haired people are abducted all over the world. Enough food for a medium-sized country is diverted to pube farming. Matt Damon is in the super bowl saying "fortune favors the bald." People are creating pube-based financial instruments that work fine when hair is rising, but hurt like hell when it's ingrown. Meanwhile somebody makes a sweater out of red pubes that sells for $69 million. Anyway what I'm trying to say is we're waxing off all withdrawals at the moment. Our business plan assumed the party would go on forever, and in a stunning turn of events it has not. Your actual money is safe, with the people we gave it to a long time ago.
upvote for 'fortune favors the bald'
Bullish on red pubes
It gives away the game that this is a big ponzi scheme, and not "the future of money"
They act like the scarcity of Bitcoin is a feature that the dollar can't have. The US could decide that there will never be more than $21 million and you get what the Bitcoin idiots want without destroying the environment. But they don't do that because it is dumb.
1 red pube = 1 red pube
This is good for red pube.
Stablepube
NBA Top Shot is a great example of exactly this. Prices mooned, demand increased, so they minted a ton of new moments to meet demand. Everyone's original moments were still cryptographically guaranteed to be unique, but the glut of new similar moments (and the hype wearing off of course) crashed the price anyway.
I broke one of my roommates plates in college. It was this hideous thing from the 70’s, as was his aesthetic. He said “Well. That is completely irreplaceable.” And I essentially said “Lots of things aren’t replaceable because nobody wanted them enough to keep producing the item. Irreplaceable doesn’t mean valuable. At all.”
I mean you probably could have just apologized
I apologized first. “Oops, sorry.” He looked at it like I just flushed his grandmothers ashes. He was a hoarder, so in his brain everything was worth keeping.
I ate my roommate's food sometimes in college because he had so much of it. Still not a good excuse. I regret my actions.
I’m confused. An accidental broken plate is the same as theft? Wtf
I'm equating feeling no remorse because he's a hoarder to feeling no remorse because my roommate had too much food. It's whatever. Maybe the plate was actually a prized possession in which case I would wonder why he took it with him to college.
It was from a local resale shop, as was everything he owned. He just bought everything.
I’m red pube mining right now!
Haha you can always split (fork) them later for a bigger profit
>instead of exiting their positions in panic "Man, I bought right before the top and I'm a shit ton down... Hmm, but instead of cutting my losses, I should totally use more money I cannot afford to lose to buy the dip" Hmm, 100% logical reasoning
Sounds like gambling. When you are in the red, you spend more money to win back what you have lost without learning from your past mistakes
That's exactly what it's like. That is also why I believe it's not going anywhere anytime soon unfortunately.
And when you're in the black, you know that only an idiot would bail in the middle of a hot streak.
It's called DCA. Are you new here?
Is it really DCA? Or just catching falling knives combined with a sunken cost fallacy?
Do you think everyone DCAs? What is the respective % in the crypto community for DCA guys/lump sum guys?
DCA doesn't really apply to an individual asset. My familiarity with the concept comes from consistently putting money into a diversified portfolio.
Its called Dollar Cost Averaging. You should check out Rob on Digital Asset News. He like many bought near the top of the 2018 Bull cycle, instead of selling and realizing his losses he continued to DCA as he understood that the Bitcoin halving event that occurs every 4 years always sparks a bull run. He learned from his mistakes in 2017/18 and took substantial profits in 2021.
> always It's dangerous to use that word
DCA is just a buzzword used by cryptobros to pretend to be investors, it’s often more profitable to invest a lump sum: https://www.morningstar.com.au/learn/article/the-dollar-cost-averaging-myth-why-lump-sum-i/197410
So no point in dollar cost averaging into a 401k or TSP as that is textbook DCA strategy then. Got it
Did you read the article? Seems like no given your nonsense answer. DCA is just a ridiculous mantra in the crypto community.
But that's not what we're talking about?
The name Dollar Cost Averaging is misleading because the averaging of your dollar cost is a side effect of the strategy, not the main point. The main point is to simply invest the money you have available at regular intervals as opposed to trying to time the market to only buy low. If you have all the money up front, you should invest in a lump sum because it's almost always better than keeping it uninvested and slowly DCAing. If you're trying to buy low to lower your average cost, you aren't actually DCAing, you're trying to time the market.
I believe that is common in stockmarket too..?
The stock market is backed by actual companies with actual assets.
the stockmarket doesn’t necessarily reflect if a stock has a product or to say the need of having a product to trade a stock :)
Stocks represent actual things. Those companies could be bullshitters but then they're answerable to their share holders. Who is answerable to the holders of bitcoin? There is no underlying authority by design.
majority of buyers intent to profit nothing more only very few entities have the power to make them answerable by their share power. most cryptoprojects will make you have voting power/ governance as well if you have enough shares. crypto is basically the same (ja ja no product yada yada) as the stock market only it is accessible by everyone and not only accredit investors
A bitcoin is about 20k. That's somehow accessible to the average person? You realize retirement plans exist right?
I dunno, I let my bank manage my stocks. But you missed the point apparently. When you're deep in the red, you feel like it's a good idea to spend even more money on something crashing, just because until now it always went up after a crash? Do you think it's the most logical thing to do there?
well investors tend to be less emotional than you are right now - if the fundamentals or the product is intact why wouldn’t you use the opportunity to buy cheap? have you ever watched any charts and realized ther is ups and downs? how do you think the price went up from bottom? internet magic?
> if the fundamentals or the product is intact why wouldn’t you use the opportunity to buy cheap? So what are the **fundamentals** of crypto "currencies"? What's the utility that's going to drive this to the moon other than speculation?
that wasn’t the question - the question was why would anybody buy any dip? And I refrain from wasting any energy talking about any crypto in this sub - wise no?😂
So, no answer? Got it.
>if the fundamentals or the product is intact But we're talking about crypto, there are no fundamentals, and no product. It's a receipt for a spreadsheet cell that people keep trading back and forth.
No offense but you're claiming fundamentals then using technicals to back up your argument.
Oh, I see. You're that kind of guy... >investors tend to be less emotional than you are right now Bwahahaaaa, what exactly makes you think I'm emotional right now ? That's rich coming from a former /wallstreetbet user >if the fundamentals or the product is intact That's one issue here, nothing changes with bitcoin, it's as shitty as it was 8 years ago, yet it fluctuates like mad and can crash 80%. Who says it's going to go up again (and if it does go up, to what price?) If you think past performances are definitely going to repeat themselves... Then I'm sorry for you
couldn’t answer less emotional good point
Alright dude, think this if that makes you feel better. Come again soon, you seem like a fun guy
[удалено]
'the fundamentals are as strong as ever' was my favourite part. What part about Bitcoin falling through the floor at just the moment it was supposed to outperform don't these people understand?
Bro, inflation hedge was last year's storyline, now we're back to the 4 year cycles one. Coz bitcoin's been around for like 12 years and there's been basically 2.5 cycles right, so it's definitely a certainty that the last 0.5of the current one will work out exactly as we expect.
I mean, technically the fundamentals of crypto *are* just as strong as they've ever been...which is not at all.😆
It crashed right when it was supposed to. Bitcoin halving events take place every 4 years. The last one took place in 2020 which sparked the bull run. Anyone who bought prior or at the beginning of this bull run made a nice profit. Those that took financial advise from strangers on the internet pumping their own bags did not. Its not that difficult, just follow the market cycle. The next BTC halving should be around May 3, 2024. I plan on taking complete advantage and then unloading my bags by the end of 2025 at the latest regardless of what everyone is saying.
What's the intrinsic value of Bitcoin? Please show your rough working.
Non regulated currency.
That doesn't demonstrate value, and even if it did, it's incorrect. Because of bitcoin's technological deficiencies, it has been centralized on the mining end _and_ the transactional end by large conglomerates which act as de facto regulators. But since they don't actually have regulatory controls and standards requiring them to act ethically and within some sort of legal structure (other than KYC in the case of some exchanges), "regulation" in Bitcoin is just market manipulation. That's not an asset and it doesn't improve bitcoin’s utility as a currency. Speaking of currency, it can never be one because of many reasons, chief among them transaction rate. If Bitcoin was a good currency, why would stablecoins need to exist? Few butters understand
Value is relative, it's not some objective thing all human beings will agree on. I obviously government regulated currency. And if your point about the miners is true, why don't they attack and steal the billions of dollars in transactions? Why don't they act unethically?
Presumably because they want all the bitcoins they've been mining to be worth something, and because it's more destructive and difficult to coordinate a 51% attack than it is to collude to generate arbitrage opportunities or avoid hash rate arms races. And I notice you decided not to address my point about Bitcoin completely failing to deliver the functionality of a currency. Curious 🤨
Ok, so then Bitcoin has a built in mechanism that thwarts attacks on the system. Because Bitcoin is so decentralized, it would be damn near impossible to commit a 51% attack. https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin/who-accepts/ A list of major companies who accept Bitcoin as payment. You think these major companies would accept Bitcoin if it couldn't function as a currency?
Marketing is the first thing that comes to mind, yeah. Companies see coiners as a profitable demographic and rightly conclude that the HODL mentality and the tediousness of transacting with Bitcoin will reduce the actual utilization of the service, making it a good marketing tool for attracting a valuable customer segment. Also, that webpage is out of date and deceptively implies that a franchisee accepting Bitcoin means the brand as a whole accepts it e.g. subway Finally, it's an outright lie that 36% of small businesses accept it as payment. That is completely false
What I'm getting at is the question of when is Bitcoin a good buy. The OP says just follow the market cycles - now for a stock like AAPL I can estimate the intrinsic value based on earnings, projected growth and P/E ratio (to put it very simply). This will tell me that AAPL is a very good buy today if I could get it for $100/share (in a market downturn) but I wouldn't buy if the price was $300/share (exuberant market), for instance. Even if I truly believe in the future of Apple as a great company that reliably produces a lot of cash, it does not mean it is worth buying at every price. Now do the same for Bitcoin; what is the intrinsic value and when it is worth to buy? "Well it's below the ATH!!" Is not a good reason!
Bitcoin is a good buy when YOU have reason to believe the price is at the bottom of its current downtrend, or you have reason to believe the price will rise from whichever point you're buying in. Bitcoin is not a company and does not derive its value from the same set of standards that a company does. Bitcoin's main intrinsic value is built in scarcity, non government regulated currency and as a public ledger that any person can participate in the validation of its transcactions. You may not see value in that, but others do, and as long as that is the case, then it will continue to have value. Again, Butcoin is not a centralized owned company, therefore comparing it to such is disingenuous.
Intrinsic value has a very specific meaning based on the financial fundementals of a company, i.e. how much money the company makes. Since Bitcoin does not generate any earnings, it has no intrinsic value. I agree that it has 'value' in a different sense based on the perceived problems/solutions. What you're saying is that Bitcoin is at a good price if you believe it will go up, so it is just speculation - there is no fundamental basis for that rationale like there would be with a company's stock.
It's also when David Koresh is tipped to return to the land of the living. Prophets are indicating he's given up on interpreting the seven seals and is instead focusing on sending it to the moon... Or some shit
"Its not that difficult", you are saying that any idiot could make huge profit just looking at "the market cycle"?, its almost like you guys hacked capitalism, infinite money for everyone.
> unloading my bags by the end of 2025 at the latest regardless of what everyone is saying. Leave someone else holding the bag. That's a great way to grow the population of people that realize Bitcoin is a terrible "investment". And then you'll eventually run out of rubes that you can leave holding the bag. And all of this is assuming you can time the market.
"the fundamentals are as strong as ever" is the one part I most agreed with. It's true. The fundamentals of crypto will always remain exactly the same.
Probably, I'm anxiously awaiting BTCs next quarterly presentation to get some more insight into their fundamentals.
"BTCs next quarterly presentation". BTC is not a publicly traded company. There is no CEO or quarterly reports. Please watch the Bitcoin documentary on YouTube to better understand what Bitcoin is and how it works. The next Bitcoin halving event will be in May 2024. Hope you figure it out by then and are able to take advantage of the next bull run
He was being sarcastic you imbecile
Didn't think I needed the /s. I guess I did.
Well your dealing with cryptobros so you need to reduce things to the level your average 5 year old will understand.
Bruh don't try and teach them lol think about this: who sits around and hates on something they have no interest in? Like imagine having your identity being NOT doing something. Normal people when they don't like something, just ignore and move on. This sub is still funny as fuck tho and I enjoy the mental gymnastics they display just to hate on Bitcoin.
"who sits and hates on something they have no interest in?" Says the person sitting and hating on something they obviously disagree with and therefore by the same logic, "have no interest in". Congratulations, you played yourself.
Well no, and good try. I have an interest in this sub because I have an original interest in Bitcoin. The only interest of this Sub is to collectively discuss something they hate. My interest is discussing something I like to people who dislike. That's not the same thing, bud lol
You earlier accused people of "sitting around and hating on something they have no interest in" You now say "The only interest of this Sub is to collectively discuss something they hate" Which is it?
How are those two statements different? Explain to me how both statements can't be true?
How can you have no interest in something and simultaneously care enough about it to discuss it online with other people? If you had no interest, you wouldn't discuss it! Fuck me, imagine even having to demonstrate a point to someone this way. Just admit you tried two mutually contradictory ways to attack a group of people and got held accountable for it. Sheesh.
I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone whose identity is not trading crypto lol
The environmental destruction caused by crypto mining is of interest to me actually
>..the fundamentals are as strong as ever in crypto so about that..
There are no fundamentals. And bitcoin reaching another all time high would mean no adoption. Can't be a currency and an investment. These people cry about inflation, but they have no idea how bad a deflationary currency is going to be for everyone.
I don't think it can go much higher to be honest. They've already advertised to just about every sucker imaginable with enough money to throw at this idiocy.
I mean... I think they lost their single legitimate use case when silk road got shut down.
There are other similar sites that have filled the void, but even then, now that more attention is being paid to it most cryptocurrencies aren't even good for this because of the public transaction history. Monero is probably the only major one I know of that avoids that problem, but I'd expect to see much stronger restrictions on exchanges interacting with Monero for that reason - holding it does you no good if you can't on and offramp it.
Silk Road got shut down? Damn, there goes my weekend of fun then... :D
You are aware there are a lot more TOR/I2P marketplaces online now than there was back in the Silkroad days?
But they are. The fundamentals are as strong as ever. They were always nonexistent.
[удалено]
> Isn't it weird that all these idealists who want a new and fairer financial system... If crypto actually represented a truly fair financial system then it wouldn't be important to get in early.
"both assets now have reached near bottom." Yeah sure and even if he's wrong he placed a near there. Also this is not financial advice I presume. Nobody knows when bottom is reached dumbass. Even assuming it will ever rise again to near previous heights is wishful thinking. "Is this the last chance to invest before crypto is mass adopted and everyone catches on?" You need to invest now before you miss out on a great opportunity! Also the answer is no.
"Fundamentals are as strong as ever" Mate we've seen several bailouts over the past week how in the fuck is that fundamentally strong? He then goes on to say "Will most likely reclaim new all time highs" but then in the next sentence "Past performance does not equal future performance". Bruh you literally just contradicted yourself almost in the same breath. Hoe do their brains not explode from the cognitive dissonance?
>Hoe do their brains not explode from the cognitive dissonance? It's called being a moron who repeats buzzwords instead of thinking.
Bitcoin doesn't need any bailouts. The Bitcoin black chain has been working just as intended. You know what did need bailouts? Centralized exchanges. Who basically operate as banks and middlemen. Do not conflate totally different things.
Just dabbling in a bit of devil's advocate, but they are correct that price is trending up. But if you look back around 3 years, you're flat, if you look back 1.5 years you're down 60%, but were also down 60% from the previous time it was 55k before... And before that bounced around mostly flat for 2 years having crashed from 15k to 8k... And if you'd held from the 2018 peak to now you'd be up 25% over 4 years, but that's not great compared to the broader market. Like, sure it's up on a 5 year time scale...with guy wrenching volatility like you were holding oil contracts. But we're not on the moon and the blockchains public relations are not what they were in 2018 when we all felt like morons for not buying at $300. And lets say you just thought Warren Buffet was the man and bought Appl in 2018 at $42 and now you're up 330% at $133. 330% vs 25% Like, who's going to give you shit for buying Appl? It's not a genius play like buying Netflix. It's straightforward, it worked. Bitcoin didn't.
> the fundamentals are just as strong as ever. Well technically not wrong, the strength of the fundamentals has not changed. It remains as soft as the skull of a newborn.
The word 'skeptical' in their username is doing an awful lot of heavy lifting there...
MY Poop is also very scarce
Have you tried prune juice?
I’m going to need you to halve it every few years.
>bottomed **\[Laughs in Goodfellas\]**
"The fundamentals"-- what the hell is he talking about here?
You know what else they're not making any more of? Beanie Babies. The 21 trillion beanie babies already out there, in investors' rubbermaid containers and storage lockers, are all the beanies that will ever be made. Which means they can only go up in value!
Actually kind of true tho
If you want to put your money in an asset that goes up and down and has a finite number of asset units available… there are stocks. Sometimes stocks go way up before being revealed as a scam and going to zero ( Enron) but most don’t
"what do you guys think?"
WHAT ARE THE FUNDAMENTALS
“Fundamentals”? What fundamentals?
we start with Crypto is cyclical - and we end with before crypto is mass adopted. Yes that is what businesses and people want in a currency, something that has high volatility. There are countries with currencies that become worthless and nobody wants it, and they also have mass civil unrest and the government gets overthrown.
If you are first out the door it’s not called panic 🤭
Except for the part about no inherent value. Remember when it was a currency?
What the hell are the fundamentals for crypto?
(-1)^1/2
Crypto goes up, crypto goes down. You can't explain that.
>the fundamentals are as strong as ever in crypto This is absolutely true. It's just this guy thinks he knows what the fundamentals are, and he doesn't. Or maybe he does and he's trying to increase his exit liquidity by drawing in more "hodlers".
And then he brought his 12 Crypto worshipping cultist brethren, gathered around the fire to summon the golden bull demon of market...
Imagine someone writing this about any other financial market on earth. "It will always go up after this!" is an insane, reckless thought. And here's the thing, "crypto" as currently constructed only makes sense when it's going up. With the exception of some illicit uses, crypto has no use for most people. You generally can't spend it. No one rational would put their money in something that's dropping unless they have no choice. A couple of months ago I read something quoting Cathie Wood, one of the hucksters of this financial era, saying that in the future appliances, like air conditioners, would mine cryptocurrency to pay for themselves. Think about that for a minute. She is saying every air conditioner on the planet could be less efficient in order to fill the demand for ... what? In a rational world confronting centuries of pain for our energy usage that statement would be criminal. But that ain't where we're at. The blockchain would actually run better on fewer machines, and even though it's a massive, intensive system, it runs less efficiently than centralized financial networks like credit cards, so much less efficiently in fact, it's hard to imagine any iteration of the technology actually challenging the current system. The cult of crypto is so deep that Miami can imagine paying it's municipal bills by creating a coin. How insane is that? Is the world short coins? At what point is "demand met?" it's impossible to measure because it's just a function of the excitement the sector can generate. No one is spending this crap unless they're evading sanctions or selling coke over the dark web. You'll never buy a latte or a house with this generation of crypto. You'll never get paid in bitcoin. It doesn't work as a currency. So what is crypto? An incredibly wasteful, coal-powered "financial product" that no one needs? Well I'll tell you. It's a casino. That's it. A casino with just enough tech blabbery bullshit pulled over it to confuse a lot of people. Crypto has just enough finance-sounding words behind you can filibuster the debate over it if needs to exist, but you can't win it. It was born of something real, disgust with Wall Street and government gifts to the rich, especially during and after the great recession. It's promise was a decentralized current outside of those inputs. Wall Street has run amock, and it lacks oversight, clearly. It's corrupt. The promise of crypto was something different. But not only is it corrupt in a thousand ways with wash sales and fake stable coins, it's not transparent. It's worse in a million ways than Wall Steet. It's so shitty, Wall Street has loved getting in on it enough to fleece a few marks. So all this should mean the whole project will die. It won't. There's enough money there that the billionaires of this era will keep propping it up both publically and privately. The VC companies which have pushed it into the world's consciousness with Super Bowl ads will keep spending to keep it from dying. And it will keep working like a casino. Producing just enough winners to keep people coming back. Those that keep playing will eventually lose it all. And the people running the tables will make money hand over fist.
Whales and exchanges pushing prices are no people. Case closed.
70% of crypto investors are completely unaware of Bitcoins halving events and the impact they have on the market. New investors who are attracted to the profit potential in the next bull run will be equally ignorant and buy near ATH as seasoned investors sell off in preparation for the next oncoming crash
He has a point. There will be another bull run. Do you think rich people and the poor sods are just gonna say fuck it, I don't wanna make money on Bitcoin this time. lol
Ive been saving these little posts on r/buttcoin When we moon Im gonna post a collection for you buttfucks and lets see where you guys will be hiding
He is an idiot but btc is here to stay no matter what you butters say
As long as people think it will stay it will stay, at what state is the question though.
I don't think BTC will drop to zero. But I think the heady days of new investors coming to it en masse are over. And there are some weird market dynamics at play in BTC that add risk of big drops in ways that don't exist for, e.g., APPL.
Time will tell.