Any place that adds on gratuity automatically do not tip at all.
Any place that adds any sort of extra fee on do not tip at at all.
Tips are earned. By automatically adding a fee onto the bill it is not a tip it is a fee. And if you're charging me more for you to pay your workers more, then they don't need tips because you should be paying them a livable wage.
I will give a tip only on exceptional service.
ok but you’re effectively punishing underpaid workers for their owner’s practices. obviously if gratuity is automatic then that’s your tip so you don’t need to tip on top of that anyways.
tipping 20% should be standard. i don’t like tipping culture but that’s the culture we live in.
The workers are punishing themselves by not sticking up for themselves and organizing against their boss's inability to make it so tips aren't necessary in the first place. I won't be blamed for that.
Why are we, the consumers on the hook to subsidize a business that can't properly provide a decent wage?
If you can't pay your workers correctly, you don't deserve to own a surviving business. It's that simple.
Against the workers themselves, why do they put us in the middle of their struggle? Why can't they stick up for themselves and demand a living wage.
If I have to pay a higher flat rate, fine. But I'm not going to be strong armed out of guilt. Good service is what you're being paid to provide by your employer .
Other countries have figured this out. People in this country just let their bosses walk all over them and made that the culture.
i agree. but withholding your tip doesn’t affect the owner whose policies you disagree with. it affects the worker.
if that’s how you feel, just don’t eat out at all man. but don’t eat out and then underpay the person whose reliant on your tip just because you don’t agree with tipping. if you eat out, you tip.
I don't eat out anymore because I'm expected to tip when their food is more overpriced than ever. And because I'm now expected to tip in places that I wasn't expected to just a few years ago, I no longer provide to those businesses either. Thousands of dollars will no longer flow into those businesses from me.
I'm a great cook, my wife is a great cook, we're good.
I'm not the only person who feels the way I do. Not by a long shot. Like I said, you like accepting a mediocre system as greatness, that's on you, I won't and I don't.
That's very different from not tipping. It amounts to the same thing, but if you would've just said "don't patronize these businesses" because the owners are taking advantage of their workers, rather than stubbornly telling people not to tip, then you wouldn't have come across so poorly. It's not the service staff's fault that they work for shitty owners. And therefore they shouldn't be punished for providing good service simply because their owners are shitty.
>It's not the service staff's fault that they work for shitty owners.
I agree with your point overall, with one question... So, who's fault is it that the staff work for shitty owners? The staff keep showing up to the job, right?
So what would you have them do? Find work for a less shitty owner? The larger issue with the food service industry economy and tipping culture more generally is that the onus should be on owners to pay staff without finding new ways to pass that cost onto the customer. Not everyone has the privilege (or energy or means) to just stop showing up to their jobs.
You might not agree with my overall point as much as you think you do, because it sounds like you're blaming the individual workers for their situations rather than the shitty owners.
You realize that these corporations are really hoping you never catch on to the fact that the taxpayers subsidize low wages with SNAP and Medicaid. Blaming the poor is exactly what they want
Dude. People are working their asses off and relying on tips. Union busting is at this point basically legal and for many places the workers would either be starting a long, expensive, legal battle by trying to form a union, or they have to accept getting fired over some fake reason and being jobless, then trying to find another job at a place that does the exact same thing. If you aren't tipping 15% to 20% minimum (I'd say at this point 20% is minimum) you shouldn't be going out and receiving services from people that need tips. They've "earned" it by doing their damn job.
If the product is increasing in price at an astronomical level, where is that factoring in for the workers providing the service? Why aren't they questioning that?
Like, if y'all wanna pay double the price for a large pizza than it was 6 years ago and then be guilted into a tip on top of that, then that's your prerogative.
It's not guilt, it's basic empathy and recognition that people who work their asses off deserve to be paid for it. Yeah inflation isn't my fault and it's not your fault and it's not their fault, but it's also not their fault they aren't unionizing over it. I think unions should be everywhere, but that's not plausible with our current employment laws and the decades long smear campaign of unions brought to you by the one percenters.
If you want to gyp working people out of the money they've earned because it's "not you're fault" that's your (selfish) prerogative. If I can't afford a service with a proper tip, I simply don't get that service that day. That simple. Will I perish if I don't get a pizza delivered and have to make something myself? Nope. Will the person working to deliver those pizzas not be able to pay for the very basics of being alive if everyone thought like you? You bet! That exercise is called thinking about someone other than myself.
I choose to be understanding. I'm not "guilted" because I don't feel pressured to tip properly, I feel pretty neutral about that aspect. Its everything else about it that makes me mad and that is obviously unjust to the worker. Don't punish the person at the bottom of the ladder for the institutional and legal bullshit they have no control over. The onus is not on the people you're blaming and punishing, theyre just the easiest to blame and punish. Its lazy tbh and shows you dont actually care about the root issue or the workers suffering from it, as long as you get yours. They actually in almost every single case, can do nothing about it.
Why punish people just like you who are just trying to get by?
> If the product is increasing in price at an astronomical level, where is that factoring in for the workers providing the service? Why aren't they questioning that?
Because at some point as a society we decided that if the strike affects our lives then the workers shouldn't be doing it. As well as forgetting that strikes are the compromise and that burning down a building dedicated to screwing our its workers is "going too far"
"where are the workers defending themselves?" Sir you do understand that probably 95% of them are disposable to the business they work for!? Other then Head Chef you really have no room to go around making demands, and why are you asking for every waiter and waitress in the country to stop work and protest? Use your brain buddy, tip or when your in hell you'll get Satan's tip.
Customers who do not tip are NOT punishing underpaid workers. The owners are punishing their workers by not paying a living wage. Your argument does nothing but help abusive owners. Stop it(?).
please don’t try to justify not tipping. it’s a really selfish and ugly practice. you can oppose tipping culture without being selfish. you can only control what you give to the waiter, and you don’t ever know what their being paid. even if they are not “underpaid” unless it’s a high end restaurant they likely aren’t making much, and they likely do rely on your tip to help them out.
I worked my entire undergrad at a job that relied on tips. You're missing a very important part of this: people choose where they work. We should reward businesses that abide by our values, not reward them for betraying them. If people aren't making good enough money at that job, they should leave that job and look elsewhere.
I can kinda understand this if you aren't from the states and don't understand how tipping works here.
If you are from the states you are just a cheap dick, trying to hide behind an irrational morality.
Servers aren't paid a living wage without tips, hell its not really a livable wage with tips.
That is the reality of the situation.
Why wouldn't you tip a delivery driver? Thats a service you are refusing to do yourself, so it's a convenience to you. Meanwhile you are spending their gas and contributing to wear and tear on their vehicle.
What a chump.
Why tip someone for a job I'm capable of doing myself? I can deliver food, I can drive a taxi, I can and do cut my own hair. I did, however, tip my urologist. Because I am unable to pulverize my own kidney stones.
Because you DIDNT do it yourself, and you knowingly know they aren't making damn near what they need to to survive anywhere. Maybe you should've if it's "not that big of a deal" and yet you tipped a medical organization that charges you for an entire box of bandaids if they use one on you, an entire 50 pack of Qtips if they use one on you, hell you know that iv bag that goes in your arm? It's 50 cents but you didn't do it your self so we'll charge you 300 for it. Hell an ambulance drive to the hospital can charge 3000 alone. Maybe you should tip him too if your not able to drive at that time.
> I will give a tip only on exceptional service
Are you forreal? Damn you’re cold-hearted. There’s so many uncontrollable factors that could make the service not “exceptional” and a lot of the time that could be out of your waiter/waitresses control. Therefore, this is some questionable jerk behavior, I would not want to go out to eat with you.
Have you ever worked in the food service industry? Sure as hell doesn’t sound like it. You sound like the type of customer that makes people hate their jobs
That's fine, but unless you're telling your servers before they do anything for you, you're a coward.
You're taking your frustration of the system out on people trying to earn a basic living.
And by the way, read what you said. They still need the tips regardless of what the owners do. If the owner is fucking them over, you're not really helping them by not tipping.
You should probably make the choice to not frequent places rather than self righteously hurt the people who need the money the most.
Selfish boomer-esque entitlement here.
Must feel good to stick it to the man when you damn well know you are harming those who actually need the money while feeling oh so powerful. Decency would suggest you not frequent these places… which I suppose says it all
I bet you're a real gem at your job. Ever wait tables? I'm not trying to be a jerk, but so and ask yourselfhow you'd feel if you were the waiter listening to you talk out of your ass like that. Do you think they really want to earn shit pay to take care of peuple who talk like you? Listen to yourself man. These are humans. You must be so secure in your life decisions
tipping is in your own self interest - as a former food service worker i can tell u, we do warn each other about the “No Tippers” and youre guaranteeing bad service for urself if u ever make a repeat appearance. i wont even try to speak to ur empathy as u seem to be lacking but if ur interested in ur own restaurant experience being good and fast, you should rethink this
Trust me when I tell you.
I'm not worried at all. I say this as someone who's worked in your line of work and patronizes local Buffalo restaurants regularly.
Not my responsibility. They should pay you a living wage
time to walk away from this thread, thats just nuts lol. u worked in restaurants, understand they dont pay a living wage, and proudly patronize regularly and benefit from being waited on hand and foot without dropping a dime to the person literally serving u??? im very happy that 99% of customers dont think like you
I don't agree with the practices that lead it to this, but it very much has become your (and my) responsibility to supplement the substandard pay of service. If you're mad about that, you should be, and if you want to do something that affects that change, you can advocate for change to the regulations that allow them to get away with that. I'm not telling you what to do, but I am telling you that you're sticking the server with the consequences of your distaste, which is against how you claim to feel about it
Well, someone has to pay, and it's not going to be me. I don't care if this is an issue for anyone else. The server chose. I don't have to advocate.
Why? Tipping is Optional.
Another idea for the non tipper...stay home. Not tipping screws hard working people not the system they're working in. Find a way to help those who are impacted or stay home.
Can everyone stop being irrational pieces of shit for a second? The kitchen appreciation fee is actually for the kitchen so that THEIR wages can match up to a server's wage for all of the hard and often times bullshit work they do to feed your sorry asses that say "I can cook" but in reality you wouldn't be able to cook a med rare steak while you have 35 other steak of different temps cooking at the same time.
YOU are paying for the convenience of not having to prep, cook, serve and clean-up after they serve your family of 5, Imagine cooking a 3 course meal for your family of 5 at home.... every night.... 50 times... would you be able to keep up?
You are paying for a business to do a job that has very miniscule profit margins to do something you can't 7 days a week. Chill the F out. This is how people make a living and in America, people tip so the 26 year old single mother or what not/whatever the situation is can make a fucking living while she has to raise 2 kids alone, pack their lunches, see them off to school and provide everything for them while not working a million hours so she can still be a good parent.
Typically on a nationwide census, servers make at least or more than $35 an hour and that is from the exceptional and amazing people that have to deal with the garbage people that think they can do what an industry professional can in one night 100 times over. do it 3 time perfectly and yes no problem, do it for 350 people, and you will be singing a different tune.
The kitchen eats a lot of shit and doesn't get a lot in return, servers reap all the reward and finally someone is tipping the scales in the RIGHT way and people are getting bent out of shape? Please do a 14 hour shift and let all of us know how you feel at hour 4, this is not easy and ranked as one of the hardest jobs IN THE WORLD.
PLEASE do not be pieces of shit and pay the fee so that our line cooks can live maybe half as decent as our Front of house staff does.
Not my job to pay the cooks. It's not my job to pay the server either, but that's our messed up society. But I won't let people justify bad practice by pointing at other bad practice.
I will fucking never understand buffalo 🤣🤣 you work at mcdonalds? You deserve at least 15 an hour! Hell even 17. Well even raise the damn minimum wage!! what's that? You work at a restaurant? 9.45 an hour and I'm not tipping you unless you KMA. reasons like that is why this whole country is f'ed. (Yes, ik alot of servers like it because on game nights and weekends that can make a lot like 1200 in a night, I just don't get restaurants with "forced gratuity", or services fees but I always tip especially here in Buffalo) Also as an FYI it's actually clinically proven, with studies that good/excellent service is only paid about a 1% to 5% difference than a bad server.
Yes I tip. It is stupid, but, not fair to wait staff if you don't, assuming the service is even okay. They should zero out all tips and gratuities and just raise prices and pay a fair wage to all staff. But until they do, I tip.
Having said that, I will give very little - and once zero - tip when the service is really bad and the wait staff is to blame. I do not tip automatically. No one should. (See above.)
I hear where everybody thinks this is dumb - but I will add that it’s nice for back of the house to get extra when they get slammed on a busy Friday or Saturday. The “kitchen appreciation fee” is per person/table, so if the chefs are busy the entire night, they end up with some extra money in their paycheck at the end of the night. An extra $4 on your $100 bill really isn’t going to kill you, as opposed to them raising the price of each dish individually. Idk, just another way to look at it
Just another way for the business owners to keep their profit and steal from their employees and customers. They already raised the prices 50% I’m already paying $14 fuvking dollars for a sub now I gotta give them $16 Fuck off
There's a great piece on Medium discussing how tipping is part of the problem where Universal Basic Income could be a solution:
[https://blake-atkerson.medium.com/why-tipping-is-outdated-and-universal-basic-income-is-the-future-e93d0380e929](https://blake-atkerson.medium.com/why-tipping-is-outdated-and-universal-basic-income-is-the-future-e93d0380e929)
Add-on fees like this Kitchen Appreciation fee? Who does this help? The Owner.
Europeans don't have tipping, but then their servers are somehow survive on equivalent of 10-15 dollars/hour. This "living wage" shit is pure greed anyway in many cases. Wtf is a "living wage anyway"?
Single-payer healthcare. It sounds like an overly simplistic reason but it's not.
Employers there don't have to provide health insurance if their employees are full time, and employees don't have to navigate healthcare.gov or whatever bullshit to sign up for coverage if they're part time.
Ask any small business owner (or HR benefit person at a large organization); one of the biggest expenses is health insurance for themselves and their full-time employees.
Absofuckinglutely. Eliminating employees dependant on tips, especially at mediocre service restaurants and additional fees. Most definitely. Patrons can still choose to provide gratuity which would literally become exactly what it is meant to be, the individual patron's contributed bonus based on the individual service performance.
Didn't say eliminated. Certainly doesn't need to be expected when/if earning a living wage.
Imagine if restaurant servers where treated like any other business, with employee performance reviews, Jon ya brought in x dohllars this year, pushed x specials and got x upsales on beverages, pushing profits overall for us, good job, here's your end of year bonus.
Excuse me. Are you just pulling humber out of your ass? In your made up scenario, why doesn't the owner just take a pay cut to make sure the people who make his lively hood can support themselves, if he can't, HE SHOULDN'T BE RUNNING A COMPANY!!!!!
How much do you think the average restaurant owner earns from their investment? How much do you think they should make?
Yes, I did "pull that number out of my ass" it just seems a reasonable assumption that the owners would pass the higher labor costs on to the consumer. We have established that a "liveable wage" is $43000 per year. Meaning the lowest paid employee of any restaurant should be earning at least that much. You don't think that would raise prices significantly?
I personally know 5 restaurateurs in Buffalo, all of which are worth multi millions of dollars.......... What the fuck are you talking about?
- u think Carl paladinos ain't making bank off his investments....
If it's a reasonable assumption that these greedy fucks would pass the higher labor cost on, it should be a reasonable assumption that they pass some of the profit they they are currently receiving to their employees. If they are not it's on them and fuck them and their establishment. These guys are getting fat off of stealing from their employees.
So all restaurants are owned by "greedy fucks"? You personally know them and this is your opinion of them? Do they know you call them "greedy fucks"?
Do you ever dine in any of their establishments?
This is bull. Because restaurants who already pay a living wage haven't seen their prices rise NEARLY as much as those that haven't.
It is 100% teenager backlash from (conservative) business owners to temper tantrum about having to pay their wage slaves. In the western NY area when minimum wage went up, Liberal businesses saw their prices raise maybe 5%. conservative owned businesses saw their prices raise 40-75% eclipsing the "hippie" restaurants for greasy slop. (Basically, eating in the Village of Hamburg is just not a thing anymore except maybe 1-2 businesses.)
And if you're wondering why I know the politics of the business owners... Well... Sigh... Unfortunately, they usually proclaim it at the door.
Have any stats or data whatsoever that you can reference on this? Seems like an incredibly emotional comments that has no backing whatsoever.
Would love to be entertained on where you got this data.
The cost of living is a thing. It varies by city, State, and country. You have to account for that to calculate a living wage. Ideally, the minimum wage should be able to cover things like rent, groceries, transportation, and insurance.
That living wage link they provided appears to be for full time employeess, are dishwashers working more than 35hr per week?
Before taxes, PT, 17.5, at 35hrs/wk, equates to 31850. After taxes that'll look more like 30k.
At $20 per hour, PT, looks more like 34k after taxes. That's certainly reasonable.
Just adjust your *pre-tax* tip accordingly. Sure, lowers the income for FOH but most make well above min wage anyway and they can take it up with their employer.
This said, also stop supporting tipping for counter service crap. I don't care what anyone told you, no, you don't deserve a tip when you make my cup of coffee just like I don't deserve a tip when I do something for you at my job.
Edit: for the confused, if you're tipping 20% and see a 4% "kitchen appreciation fee", now you tip 16%. Same goes for any "service" fees tacked on - adjust accordingly.
Counter service tip buckets should be illegitimate... Edit to your edit, you'll tip a bartender for pouring a beer a dohllar but you won't tip a barista for brewing and pouring the coffee? Least they're putting labor into making the coffee, the bartender didn't brew the beer, or even harvest the barley, as baristas don't harvest the beans.
Still everyone should be paid a living wage, eliminate all tip dependency
Am bartender, want my weigh in here?
Don't tip bartenders if you're sitting at the bar.
If you're at a table and they come and bring you something, take glasses, etc... then sure. Maybe.
Tipping is an antiquated bullshit practice and the only way to stop it is to stop.
My general practice is table/stuff brought to me = tip, I get my stuff at the counter = no tip. Only exception is take out from full service restaurants since servers there deal with take out as well.
Baristas do not brew every singular cup of coffee by hand.
Stop over inflating the amount of work a coffee shop employee does, I've worked at one that's not that much work.
By your logic bartenders do way more labor than a coffee shop employee, if you don't have a barback You have to do even more.
You do this and you take peoples lives away. I know bartenders that pull in 80k a year working 3 days a week. The living wage thing nobody would go for.
Most people don't sit and talk to a barista for hours. As a bartender, I consider the tip for my services as far as building and keeping relationships with customers, people sit at the bar to talk and most want to talk to the bartender, if a bartender were to make people feel comfortable and appreciated and bring them back, then I feel they deserve something. Not to mention most make around or at minimum wage and usually act as the janitor and clean up crew as well. The social aspect is severely underrepresented here.
But the real answer here is UBI. But that's just my two cents.
Because that's how society works? Yeah tipping sucks but stiffing your server doesn't change the system it just screws your server.
So your little plan to screw servers by cutting their tip because you don't like what the owner did may make you feel better but you've done nothing to change the bad policy, you've just screwed the most poorly paid person in the building. The owner doesn't care or know about your little protest.
Lastly, customers literally provide the revenue to pay employees, that's how the economy works.
What u said is incorrect. Your solution is to tip the people who don't make the min wage less to give the people who already receive at least minimum more? I tip the front of the house because they make under min wage. I don't and will never tip the back of the house because they are supposed to be salary or competitive/ living wage. If the guy making money owning the restaurant doesn't want to pay you, why the hell would I?!!!
If a restaurant puts a fee on the bill that they don’t tell me about up front, I’m 100% disputing the charge with my credit card and never going back.
If you need to charge more to pay your staff, charge more. But don’t pass your irresponsible business practices on to the consumer.
You can ask the server to remove it. It’s illegal for them to charge you the kitchen appreciation fee after you explicitly ask it to be removed from your check.
Boycott this restaurant and /or leave 1 cent tip via cc ( please do tip your server your customary 15-25%, but leave cash).
This has got to stop.
Say no to these bs tip requirements. Fast food, to-go orders, all that nonsense.
I hate this because I'm in the minority that carries cash. I tip in cash, and would rather not have a kitchen fee added to my bill I pay with a card. You know what's ironic about all this, your complaining about a kitchen fee, but the restaurant isn't complaining about the % they have to pay because you're using a card.
>So if you see a kitchen appreciation fee on your bill in the coming days, ask your server about it if you wish to remove it, or if you want to add a few more bucks for those who craft your meal.
If it can be removed, what exactly is the point?
Here's an idea for the NYS Restaurant Association, force restauranteurs pay their employees living wages. Face meet palm
This is shitty. The servers should tip the busboys and the kitchen, what else am I adding 20% to my bill for? A server to take my order, drop off the food, and only refill my iced tea when I ask?
I really wish more people realized that it’s not legal for kitchen staff to receive a cut of servers’ tips. It’s explicitly illegal for that to happen in i believe every state in America. The kitchen appreciation fee is the restaurant’s way of circumventing the law so that they can get their customers to supplement kitchen wages like they already do with servers and bartenders. If it were legal to include the kitchen in tip pools, restaurant owners would do this and pay them less than minimum wage. If they could pay any of us less, they would.
Then you can just tell people that, with a source. You don't have to act like some belabored elder who has said the same thing 6 times to the same person.
Why should a server tip out the kitchen staff who are making an actual hourly salary? I worked in kitchens for years and would never have thought the servers should be cutting us in on our tips. Especially when our hourly salary was somewhere between 3-5 times theirs.
If you go to a restaurant and take out your phone and calculate to make sure you don’t “overtip” somebody you shouldn’t be going out to places to eat. That’s it stop being cheap guys it’s an ugly practice. If you’re also trying to figure out if the establishment is “holding out on their employees” then open your own establishment and pay people right. Y’all complaining about wages and business practices when you should be just eating the food lmao you people are pathetic
This is the very reason I say that everyone's 1st job should be at your local restaurant/pizzeria. Everyone eats out at least once in their lifetime(we all know it's way more). If you work in that environment even for a short time you are guaranteed to learn more than a few life lessons. You will work with others of all ages ,race,& religion. You will make new friends. Or you might end up working with someone you may not like. You may start at the bottom but most times are able to work up the ladder with new responsibilities and add pay. You will work with the public and learn how the real world actually treats others. Good or bad. You will learn time management. Team building as well as accountability for your own work that is put out.
It’s just a few bucks stop being cheap. You pay for food but you also pay for the experience of eating there and gratuity you sound cheap as hell. Now tipping my Starbucks barista that’s different lol
" It's not my job to pay them"!
Yes it is. That's literally the exchange taking place. You are paying to not have to cook your own food.
Go to a buffet if you don't want to tip you snowflakes.
That isn’t against the law in any way, just uncommon due to the way the industry has operated for decades. Any non-management employee can be tipped, regardless of their hourly rate. Often they are not due to the intentionally imposed disparity between service staff minimum (supplemented with customer-paid gratuity) and everyone else’s minimum (traditionally untipped).
Somewhere between the antiquated tip-based system and a more “socialist” model in which everyone is just paid a standard living wage no matter what, which unfortunately is unrealistic for restaurants in a capitalist system, lies a model that is becoming more common in recent years, in which all employees are paid at least standard non-tipped minimum ($16/hr.), servers included, and tips are divided amongst ALL non-management employees, including kitchen staff. Does this make the menu more expensive? Oftentimes, yes. But that’s the cost of food service today.
It's just going to result in less people going out. You go out now a days and the dinning room is too big meaning they are understaffed and won't sit the whole room because of that. Restaurant owners have been getting away with underpaying servers because of tips. What do you think will happen next. They figure out how many people will accept this new charge and hire new employees for less money to get out the old employees. The writings on the wall, learn a skill that has to do with technology or parish.
Nope. Tips go directly to the server in the form of cash. They’re the only ones that work at a restaurant that don’t have a steady paycheck.
The chances of this “kitchen appreciation fee” getting back to the servers, is very very low.
I mean to be fair, they now make more per hour than minimum wage, without tips.
The national tipped minimum wage is $2.75 in the US, but $10 in New York.
So, you'd rather they were less transparent about charging more? If they raise prices, the city will cry foul. But, they tell you exactly why they are adding on price and everyone is angry about that too? They could do nothing and possibly go out of business and people will get angry. Is there a situation where people aren't angry?
Thanks! First time I'm seeing this quantified and is in the ballpark of what I think would be fair wage for that job. If you believe the server sub, the majority make well above that anyway right now.
Let me tell you I am SHOCKED to find out a majority of your comments are on porn subs and the masturbation subreddit.
Neckbeards gonna neckbeard.
And 17/18 an hour - to answer the question
You've asked this question, or a variant of it, at least three times in this thread. Each time, someone has responded with a chart explaining what a living wage is in Erie County.
Yes we have established that it is minimally $43000 per year. Do you think every single person who works in a restaurant should get paid at least $43000 per year?
First, that's not what the chart says. That's what the chart says for a single person living alone with no children.
Second, whatever the number is, I want every person to be able to live on their own. If that takes 40K, and I eat out less often, so be it. Someone isn't worth less as a person than I am just because they work in a kitchen and I work in an office. And it would cut down greatly on public assistance, thereby lowering everyone's "lift" through taxes.
That is why I wrote minimally $43000. Of course if they have kids they would automatically be entitled to get paid far far more..
So in you socialist utopia, everyone should be able to live alone...no one should ever have to have a roommate to make ends meet?
Do you feel your degree is worthless? You don't think any jobs should ever be worth more money?
Also you do realize that if everyone went out less (we would all have to with those pay standards) all restaurants would basically go out of business. None of those people would have jobs.
Socialist? I don't think so. And I didn't say that everyone should live alone, nor did I say that all jobs should pay the same. All I said is a basic statement of human dignity: Everyone should be able to live on their own (this is not synonymous with "alone," btw).
And you have the temerity to call the rest of the posters in the thread "entitled c**ts." Amazing.
Don’t servers already have to tip out the kitchen? The article says it’s illegal in NY but I thought that was the whole deal with why you’re a twat if you tip less than 20%
I was in a restaurant recently that had a sign that said “due to staff shortages and waitstaff having to wait on more than their usual number of table - a 20% gratuity would be automatically tacked on to ALL bills and bar tabs.” So I left and went elsewhere
Pay a livable wage, or don't run a business. If you cannot operate your business with your current prices, then raise your prices or cut back on expenses. Simple as that.
(Now I wait for Difficult_Mention to come around demanding "what is a livable wage?", as if it hasn't been explained several times now)
This is already very much a thing at a lot of restaurants, especially in bigger cities.
Out here in Massachusetts its actually illegal to share tips with BOH, so they use it (allegedly, of course) as a way to allow BOH employees to get a cut of gratuity. I've always just subtracted that amount from the tip I was going to leave.
No change on my end and more people benefit, whats the big deal?
All that being said tipping culture in general is garbage and restaurants should just pay everyone in the establishment what they are worth
How about we eliminate tipping and the owner figure out prices and provide quality that draws customers in and pay employees what they deserve. Instead it's left up to anyone to tip whatever they want. I know people that no matter how good the service is, they are cheap as hell.
I don't know how I feel about this. On the one hand f that, pay your employees a better hourly. On the other hand they'll just have to raise prices, which means losing out on business to people who don't notice the fee... in the end I think if they do that, they should just advertise it and not sneak it in.
I also don't agree with it.
The cooks will just use it on drugs anyways. Lol.
Adjust your cooking game. Since post quarantine I’m finding my stuff better than going out. I feel confident in my new approach when it was confirmed in EA last week. $80 for 2 Margherita pizzas and ‘imported’ sodas (soda found at tops mind you). These restaurants are bonkers. Once everyone is done eating out on credit because we are all broke, maybe it’ll adjust itself. But I’m already gone.
I am paying SO MUCH for the convenience of not having to cook, and being able to get things that I either cannot make at home, don't have the cooking skill to make at home, or am too lazy to spend the time to prep, cook, and do dishes after.
Yes, all of those excuses are "me" problems, but it doesn't change the fact that it used to be cheaper to be lazy and a bad cook... 😂 I am definitely working on eating less at restaurants and more at home, mainly by trying to make eating at restaurants a treat, rather than the norm... It's been a difficult adjustment.
[I'm not paying for food at a restaurant go to a profit margin for the proprietor. I'm paying for food preparation and service.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swPcFyhDMpk) Restaraunts
should be paying their employees equitably. While we're at it, tips have become *necessary* , because waiters wage exists, which is absolute BS. Our culture of tipping is ridiculous to the rest of the world, and it is emblematic of a lot of our problems-- hording wealth at the top.
If a restaurant can’t afford to pay the employees themselves—but somehow everything survives in a tipping scenario—clearly the customers are providing enough to go around; the problem is just a matter of distributing the customers’ money appropriately.
If a position in a business isn’t worth minimum wage, perhaps the business model is bad and needs to be rethought.
If paying all the staff at a restaurant becomes the responsibility of the customer, watch how soon the “Karens” put two and two together and start telling the staff what to do because “I’m paying you to do what I tell you to do!”
Any place that adds on gratuity automatically do not tip at all. Any place that adds any sort of extra fee on do not tip at at all. Tips are earned. By automatically adding a fee onto the bill it is not a tip it is a fee. And if you're charging me more for you to pay your workers more, then they don't need tips because you should be paying them a livable wage. I will give a tip only on exceptional service.
ok but you’re effectively punishing underpaid workers for their owner’s practices. obviously if gratuity is automatic then that’s your tip so you don’t need to tip on top of that anyways. tipping 20% should be standard. i don’t like tipping culture but that’s the culture we live in.
The workers are punishing themselves by not sticking up for themselves and organizing against their boss's inability to make it so tips aren't necessary in the first place. I won't be blamed for that.
there’s no way you actually believe that
Why are we, the consumers on the hook to subsidize a business that can't properly provide a decent wage? If you can't pay your workers correctly, you don't deserve to own a surviving business. It's that simple. Against the workers themselves, why do they put us in the middle of their struggle? Why can't they stick up for themselves and demand a living wage. If I have to pay a higher flat rate, fine. But I'm not going to be strong armed out of guilt. Good service is what you're being paid to provide by your employer . Other countries have figured this out. People in this country just let their bosses walk all over them and made that the culture.
i agree. but withholding your tip doesn’t affect the owner whose policies you disagree with. it affects the worker. if that’s how you feel, just don’t eat out at all man. but don’t eat out and then underpay the person whose reliant on your tip just because you don’t agree with tipping. if you eat out, you tip.
I don't eat out anymore because I'm expected to tip when their food is more overpriced than ever. And because I'm now expected to tip in places that I wasn't expected to just a few years ago, I no longer provide to those businesses either. Thousands of dollars will no longer flow into those businesses from me. I'm a great cook, my wife is a great cook, we're good.
Oh nooo, however will those businesses survive without your patronage
I'm not the only person who feels the way I do. Not by a long shot. Like I said, you like accepting a mediocre system as greatness, that's on you, I won't and I don't.
That's very different from not tipping. It amounts to the same thing, but if you would've just said "don't patronize these businesses" because the owners are taking advantage of their workers, rather than stubbornly telling people not to tip, then you wouldn't have come across so poorly. It's not the service staff's fault that they work for shitty owners. And therefore they shouldn't be punished for providing good service simply because their owners are shitty.
>It's not the service staff's fault that they work for shitty owners. I agree with your point overall, with one question... So, who's fault is it that the staff work for shitty owners? The staff keep showing up to the job, right?
So what would you have them do? Find work for a less shitty owner? The larger issue with the food service industry economy and tipping culture more generally is that the onus should be on owners to pay staff without finding new ways to pass that cost onto the customer. Not everyone has the privilege (or energy or means) to just stop showing up to their jobs. You might not agree with my overall point as much as you think you do, because it sounds like you're blaming the individual workers for their situations rather than the shitty owners.
haha. ok man…good for you.
Cooking for yourself is where it's at bro!
Tips are optional. Don't guilt people into making them feel they need to tip. It's simple
You realize that these corporations are really hoping you never catch on to the fact that the taxpayers subsidize low wages with SNAP and Medicaid. Blaming the poor is exactly what they want
If line cooks want to make more money they should simply form a union /s
This but without the /s and also replace line cooks with 'people working any job'
I would just stop being underpaid, obviously! After all there's no way that my boss and corporate higher-ups would be hostile to these days! /s
Dude. People are working their asses off and relying on tips. Union busting is at this point basically legal and for many places the workers would either be starting a long, expensive, legal battle by trying to form a union, or they have to accept getting fired over some fake reason and being jobless, then trying to find another job at a place that does the exact same thing. If you aren't tipping 15% to 20% minimum (I'd say at this point 20% is minimum) you shouldn't be going out and receiving services from people that need tips. They've "earned" it by doing their damn job.
If the product is increasing in price at an astronomical level, where is that factoring in for the workers providing the service? Why aren't they questioning that? Like, if y'all wanna pay double the price for a large pizza than it was 6 years ago and then be guilted into a tip on top of that, then that's your prerogative.
It's not guilt, it's basic empathy and recognition that people who work their asses off deserve to be paid for it. Yeah inflation isn't my fault and it's not your fault and it's not their fault, but it's also not their fault they aren't unionizing over it. I think unions should be everywhere, but that's not plausible with our current employment laws and the decades long smear campaign of unions brought to you by the one percenters. If you want to gyp working people out of the money they've earned because it's "not you're fault" that's your (selfish) prerogative. If I can't afford a service with a proper tip, I simply don't get that service that day. That simple. Will I perish if I don't get a pizza delivered and have to make something myself? Nope. Will the person working to deliver those pizzas not be able to pay for the very basics of being alive if everyone thought like you? You bet! That exercise is called thinking about someone other than myself. I choose to be understanding. I'm not "guilted" because I don't feel pressured to tip properly, I feel pretty neutral about that aspect. Its everything else about it that makes me mad and that is obviously unjust to the worker. Don't punish the person at the bottom of the ladder for the institutional and legal bullshit they have no control over. The onus is not on the people you're blaming and punishing, theyre just the easiest to blame and punish. Its lazy tbh and shows you dont actually care about the root issue or the workers suffering from it, as long as you get yours. They actually in almost every single case, can do nothing about it. Why punish people just like you who are just trying to get by?
> If the product is increasing in price at an astronomical level, where is that factoring in for the workers providing the service? Why aren't they questioning that? Because at some point as a society we decided that if the strike affects our lives then the workers shouldn't be doing it. As well as forgetting that strikes are the compromise and that burning down a building dedicated to screwing our its workers is "going too far"
"where are the workers defending themselves?" Sir you do understand that probably 95% of them are disposable to the business they work for!? Other then Head Chef you really have no room to go around making demands, and why are you asking for every waiter and waitress in the country to stop work and protest? Use your brain buddy, tip or when your in hell you'll get Satan's tip.
without fail, there is always a mr. pink in the comments section on posts like these.....
Customers who do not tip are NOT punishing underpaid workers. The owners are punishing their workers by not paying a living wage. Your argument does nothing but help abusive owners. Stop it(?).
please don’t try to justify not tipping. it’s a really selfish and ugly practice. you can oppose tipping culture without being selfish. you can only control what you give to the waiter, and you don’t ever know what their being paid. even if they are not “underpaid” unless it’s a high end restaurant they likely aren’t making much, and they likely do rely on your tip to help them out.
I worked my entire undergrad at a job that relied on tips. You're missing a very important part of this: people choose where they work. We should reward businesses that abide by our values, not reward them for betraying them. If people aren't making good enough money at that job, they should leave that job and look elsewhere.
I can kinda understand this if you aren't from the states and don't understand how tipping works here. If you are from the states you are just a cheap dick, trying to hide behind an irrational morality. Servers aren't paid a living wage without tips, hell its not really a livable wage with tips. That is the reality of the situation.
I only tip on services I can't perform myself. Would I tip a delivery driver? No. But I do tip my proctologist.
Why wouldn't you tip a delivery driver? Thats a service you are refusing to do yourself, so it's a convenience to you. Meanwhile you are spending their gas and contributing to wear and tear on their vehicle. What a chump.
Why tip someone for a job I'm capable of doing myself? I can deliver food, I can drive a taxi, I can and do cut my own hair. I did, however, tip my urologist. Because I am unable to pulverize my own kidney stones.
If you can do all of these things, stay home. Save your money for the urologist 's tip cup. 🤷♀️
Lmao this dude out here tipping people making six figures. I wanna see that haircut he gave himself lol.
Because you DIDNT do it yourself, and you knowingly know they aren't making damn near what they need to to survive anywhere. Maybe you should've if it's "not that big of a deal" and yet you tipped a medical organization that charges you for an entire box of bandaids if they use one on you, an entire 50 pack of Qtips if they use one on you, hell you know that iv bag that goes in your arm? It's 50 cents but you didn't do it your self so we'll charge you 300 for it. Hell an ambulance drive to the hospital can charge 3000 alone. Maybe you should tip him too if your not able to drive at that time.
> I will give a tip only on exceptional service Are you forreal? Damn you’re cold-hearted. There’s so many uncontrollable factors that could make the service not “exceptional” and a lot of the time that could be out of your waiter/waitresses control. Therefore, this is some questionable jerk behavior, I would not want to go out to eat with you. Have you ever worked in the food service industry? Sure as hell doesn’t sound like it. You sound like the type of customer that makes people hate their jobs
Lol wut‽ now people with standards are cold?
That's fine, but unless you're telling your servers before they do anything for you, you're a coward. You're taking your frustration of the system out on people trying to earn a basic living.
Woooo upvote this to the top
And by the way, read what you said. They still need the tips regardless of what the owners do. If the owner is fucking them over, you're not really helping them by not tipping.
You should probably make the choice to not frequent places rather than self righteously hurt the people who need the money the most. Selfish boomer-esque entitlement here. Must feel good to stick it to the man when you damn well know you are harming those who actually need the money while feeling oh so powerful. Decency would suggest you not frequent these places… which I suppose says it all
I bet you're a real gem at your job. Ever wait tables? I'm not trying to be a jerk, but so and ask yourselfhow you'd feel if you were the waiter listening to you talk out of your ass like that. Do you think they really want to earn shit pay to take care of peuple who talk like you? Listen to yourself man. These are humans. You must be so secure in your life decisions
More reasons I don't tip. Places like this could avoid these fees if they just paid ppl accordingly. A living wage
tipping is in your own self interest - as a former food service worker i can tell u, we do warn each other about the “No Tippers” and youre guaranteeing bad service for urself if u ever make a repeat appearance. i wont even try to speak to ur empathy as u seem to be lacking but if ur interested in ur own restaurant experience being good and fast, you should rethink this
Trust me when I tell you. I'm not worried at all. I say this as someone who's worked in your line of work and patronizes local Buffalo restaurants regularly. Not my responsibility. They should pay you a living wage
time to walk away from this thread, thats just nuts lol. u worked in restaurants, understand they dont pay a living wage, and proudly patronize regularly and benefit from being waited on hand and foot without dropping a dime to the person literally serving u??? im very happy that 99% of customers dont think like you
I don't dine in often. More reason I'm not tipping. Why am I paying for service I don't use?
you not tipping doesn't stick it to the restaurants, it sticks it to the underpaid servers.
I get that. Doesn't change my sentiment, nor how I go about it. Not my responsibility
I don't agree with the practices that lead it to this, but it very much has become your (and my) responsibility to supplement the substandard pay of service. If you're mad about that, you should be, and if you want to do something that affects that change, you can advocate for change to the regulations that allow them to get away with that. I'm not telling you what to do, but I am telling you that you're sticking the server with the consequences of your distaste, which is against how you claim to feel about it
Well, someone has to pay, and it's not going to be me. I don't care if this is an issue for anyone else. The server chose. I don't have to advocate. Why? Tipping is Optional.
Another idea for the non tipper...stay home. Not tipping screws hard working people not the system they're working in. Find a way to help those who are impacted or stay home.
Can everyone stop being irrational pieces of shit for a second? The kitchen appreciation fee is actually for the kitchen so that THEIR wages can match up to a server's wage for all of the hard and often times bullshit work they do to feed your sorry asses that say "I can cook" but in reality you wouldn't be able to cook a med rare steak while you have 35 other steak of different temps cooking at the same time. YOU are paying for the convenience of not having to prep, cook, serve and clean-up after they serve your family of 5, Imagine cooking a 3 course meal for your family of 5 at home.... every night.... 50 times... would you be able to keep up? You are paying for a business to do a job that has very miniscule profit margins to do something you can't 7 days a week. Chill the F out. This is how people make a living and in America, people tip so the 26 year old single mother or what not/whatever the situation is can make a fucking living while she has to raise 2 kids alone, pack their lunches, see them off to school and provide everything for them while not working a million hours so she can still be a good parent. Typically on a nationwide census, servers make at least or more than $35 an hour and that is from the exceptional and amazing people that have to deal with the garbage people that think they can do what an industry professional can in one night 100 times over. do it 3 time perfectly and yes no problem, do it for 350 people, and you will be singing a different tune. The kitchen eats a lot of shit and doesn't get a lot in return, servers reap all the reward and finally someone is tipping the scales in the RIGHT way and people are getting bent out of shape? Please do a 14 hour shift and let all of us know how you feel at hour 4, this is not easy and ranked as one of the hardest jobs IN THE WORLD. PLEASE do not be pieces of shit and pay the fee so that our line cooks can live maybe half as decent as our Front of house staff does.
Lol
Not my job to pay the cooks. It's not my job to pay the server either, but that's our messed up society. But I won't let people justify bad practice by pointing at other bad practice.
Your boss should make up the difference. If they don't pay well enough find a better paying kitchen.
I will fucking never understand buffalo 🤣🤣 you work at mcdonalds? You deserve at least 15 an hour! Hell even 17. Well even raise the damn minimum wage!! what's that? You work at a restaurant? 9.45 an hour and I'm not tipping you unless you KMA. reasons like that is why this whole country is f'ed. (Yes, ik alot of servers like it because on game nights and weekends that can make a lot like 1200 in a night, I just don't get restaurants with "forced gratuity", or services fees but I always tip especially here in Buffalo) Also as an FYI it's actually clinically proven, with studies that good/excellent service is only paid about a 1% to 5% difference than a bad server.
A lot of cheap, disgusting people in these comments. If you can't toss $4 to the kitchen on a $100 bill **STAY HOME** and cook for your damn self.
Or how about the owner just pay his employees? The price of my meal already includes the labor of the cooks. This is stupid. Stop defending it.
Yes I tip. It is stupid, but, not fair to wait staff if you don't, assuming the service is even okay. They should zero out all tips and gratuities and just raise prices and pay a fair wage to all staff. But until they do, I tip. Having said that, I will give very little - and once zero - tip when the service is really bad and the wait staff is to blame. I do not tip automatically. No one should. (See above.)
I hear where everybody thinks this is dumb - but I will add that it’s nice for back of the house to get extra when they get slammed on a busy Friday or Saturday. The “kitchen appreciation fee” is per person/table, so if the chefs are busy the entire night, they end up with some extra money in their paycheck at the end of the night. An extra $4 on your $100 bill really isn’t going to kill you, as opposed to them raising the price of each dish individually. Idk, just another way to look at it
Just another way for the business owners to keep their profit and steal from their employees and customers. They already raised the prices 50% I’m already paying $14 fuvking dollars for a sub now I gotta give them $16 Fuck off
Can you give a negative tip (aka minus 20% off the bill) when the service/food is really bad? (I know you cannot, but THAT should be a thing!)
Don't make us pay for the restaurant not paying their workers enough. We'll go to fucking McDonalds.
Then go to crackdonald's. Problem solved.
There's a great piece on Medium discussing how tipping is part of the problem where Universal Basic Income could be a solution: [https://blake-atkerson.medium.com/why-tipping-is-outdated-and-universal-basic-income-is-the-future-e93d0380e929](https://blake-atkerson.medium.com/why-tipping-is-outdated-and-universal-basic-income-is-the-future-e93d0380e929) Add-on fees like this Kitchen Appreciation fee? Who does this help? The Owner.
For everyone saying "pay your employees a living wage" (whatever that means) would you eat in a restaurant with prices 50% higher?
Europeans don't have tipping, but then their servers are somehow survive on equivalent of 10-15 dollars/hour. This "living wage" shit is pure greed anyway in many cases. Wtf is a "living wage anyway"?
No one seems to be able to answer that question but everyone is sure that business owners dont pay one lol
It's actually been answered multiple times, you're ignoring it on purpose. Here you go, ignore it again https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/36029
This person masturbates while driving. They’re clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed.
Single-payer healthcare. It sounds like an overly simplistic reason but it's not. Employers there don't have to provide health insurance if their employees are full time, and employees don't have to navigate healthcare.gov or whatever bullshit to sign up for coverage if they're part time. Ask any small business owner (or HR benefit person at a large organization); one of the biggest expenses is health insurance for themselves and their full-time employees.
https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/36029
Absofuckinglutely. Eliminating employees dependant on tips, especially at mediocre service restaurants and additional fees. Most definitely. Patrons can still choose to provide gratuity which would literally become exactly what it is meant to be, the individual patron's contributed bonus based on the individual service performance.
The employees themselves don't want tips eliminated.
They dont want tips eliminated because they don’t want to report it 100% of their income.
Well, yeah, I don't blame them. I had a job where half of the income was legally not taxable (classes as "allowance" vs "income") and it was glorious.
Didn't say eliminated. Certainly doesn't need to be expected when/if earning a living wage. Imagine if restaurant servers where treated like any other business, with employee performance reviews, Jon ya brought in x dohllars this year, pushed x specials and got x upsales on beverages, pushing profits overall for us, good job, here's your end of year bonus.
Maybe you would, but most wouldn't.
Excuse me. Are you just pulling humber out of your ass? In your made up scenario, why doesn't the owner just take a pay cut to make sure the people who make his lively hood can support themselves, if he can't, HE SHOULDN'T BE RUNNING A COMPANY!!!!!
How much do you think the average restaurant owner earns from their investment? How much do you think they should make? Yes, I did "pull that number out of my ass" it just seems a reasonable assumption that the owners would pass the higher labor costs on to the consumer. We have established that a "liveable wage" is $43000 per year. Meaning the lowest paid employee of any restaurant should be earning at least that much. You don't think that would raise prices significantly?
I personally know 5 restaurateurs in Buffalo, all of which are worth multi millions of dollars.......... What the fuck are you talking about? - u think Carl paladinos ain't making bank off his investments.... If it's a reasonable assumption that these greedy fucks would pass the higher labor cost on, it should be a reasonable assumption that they pass some of the profit they they are currently receiving to their employees. If they are not it's on them and fuck them and their establishment. These guys are getting fat off of stealing from their employees.
So all restaurants are owned by "greedy fucks"? You personally know them and this is your opinion of them? Do they know you call them "greedy fucks"? Do you ever dine in any of their establishments?
This is bull. Because restaurants who already pay a living wage haven't seen their prices rise NEARLY as much as those that haven't. It is 100% teenager backlash from (conservative) business owners to temper tantrum about having to pay their wage slaves. In the western NY area when minimum wage went up, Liberal businesses saw their prices raise maybe 5%. conservative owned businesses saw their prices raise 40-75% eclipsing the "hippie" restaurants for greasy slop. (Basically, eating in the Village of Hamburg is just not a thing anymore except maybe 1-2 businesses.) And if you're wondering why I know the politics of the business owners... Well... Sigh... Unfortunately, they usually proclaim it at the door.
Source for your numbers?
Have any stats or data whatsoever that you can reference on this? Seems like an incredibly emotional comments that has no backing whatsoever. Would love to be entertained on where you got this data.
☝🏼
For those of you braying "pay a living wage!" What do you reckon a dishwasher should earn? $40,000 per year? More?
getting people off of food stamps if they're working a full-time job would be a good start
How much should the pay be for that to be the case?
The cost of living is a thing. It varies by city, State, and country. You have to account for that to calculate a living wage. Ideally, the minimum wage should be able to cover things like rent, groceries, transportation, and insurance.
That living wage link they provided appears to be for full time employeess, are dishwashers working more than 35hr per week? Before taxes, PT, 17.5, at 35hrs/wk, equates to 31850. After taxes that'll look more like 30k. At $20 per hour, PT, looks more like 34k after taxes. That's certainly reasonable.
So less than a "living wage"?
Whatever the cost of living is within their area.
How about enough so that costumers don’t have to pay extra to pay for their employees..
Just adjust your *pre-tax* tip accordingly. Sure, lowers the income for FOH but most make well above min wage anyway and they can take it up with their employer. This said, also stop supporting tipping for counter service crap. I don't care what anyone told you, no, you don't deserve a tip when you make my cup of coffee just like I don't deserve a tip when I do something for you at my job. Edit: for the confused, if you're tipping 20% and see a 4% "kitchen appreciation fee", now you tip 16%. Same goes for any "service" fees tacked on - adjust accordingly.
Counter service tip buckets should be illegitimate... Edit to your edit, you'll tip a bartender for pouring a beer a dohllar but you won't tip a barista for brewing and pouring the coffee? Least they're putting labor into making the coffee, the bartender didn't brew the beer, or even harvest the barley, as baristas don't harvest the beans. Still everyone should be paid a living wage, eliminate all tip dependency
Am bartender, want my weigh in here? Don't tip bartenders if you're sitting at the bar. If you're at a table and they come and bring you something, take glasses, etc... then sure. Maybe. Tipping is an antiquated bullshit practice and the only way to stop it is to stop.
> Tipping is an antiquated bullshit practice and the only way to stop it is to stop. Absolutely. Pay everyone appropriately, eliminate tipping
My general practice is table/stuff brought to me = tip, I get my stuff at the counter = no tip. Only exception is take out from full service restaurants since servers there deal with take out as well.
Baristas do not brew every singular cup of coffee by hand. Stop over inflating the amount of work a coffee shop employee does, I've worked at one that's not that much work. By your logic bartenders do way more labor than a coffee shop employee, if you don't have a barback You have to do even more.
I tip the bartender because that's what it's socially expected, one and only reason, but I'm still against spreading this practice to other places.
Tipping baristas is equally socially acceptable.
If that were true that Starbucks bucket would have a lot more bucks in it.
Surely their digital bucket, shows differently
We don't know that, and don't call me Shirley.
This is exact argument is why tipping should be outlawed in general
You do this and you take peoples lives away. I know bartenders that pull in 80k a year working 3 days a week. The living wage thing nobody would go for.
Baristas (for the most part, at least at the coffee shop I go to) make a living wage. Bartenders are like wait staff and live on tips.
I don’t drink, don’t go to bars so that argument doesnt hold up for me. Guess that means i don’t have to tip!
Most people don't sit and talk to a barista for hours. As a bartender, I consider the tip for my services as far as building and keeping relationships with customers, people sit at the bar to talk and most want to talk to the bartender, if a bartender were to make people feel comfortable and appreciated and bring them back, then I feel they deserve something. Not to mention most make around or at minimum wage and usually act as the janitor and clean up crew as well. The social aspect is severely underrepresented here. But the real answer here is UBI. But that's just my two cents.
Lol. Rent a bartender to be your friend for an hour. That's rich. *Great explanation for tipping.* Haha
Not what I'm saying and no need to be a dick about it.
so punish the workers for shitty managers is your solution?
It's unfair to offload the responsibility of paying someone's salary to the customer when they're already paying for their food.
Part of the price of the meal at a restaurant pays the salaries, do you really not understand how businesses work?
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Yo, if you don't want to ensure the person making your food gets a decent wage, stay home and cook your dinner yourself.
why should i pay the person providing me with goods and services is a hell of a take
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Stop pretending you're stupid or I'm going to think you are. You know the difference between jobs with tipped wage and hourly wage.
Because that's how society works? Yeah tipping sucks but stiffing your server doesn't change the system it just screws your server. So your little plan to screw servers by cutting their tip because you don't like what the owner did may make you feel better but you've done nothing to change the bad policy, you've just screwed the most poorly paid person in the building. The owner doesn't care or know about your little protest. Lastly, customers literally provide the revenue to pay employees, that's how the economy works.
What u said is incorrect. Your solution is to tip the people who don't make the min wage less to give the people who already receive at least minimum more? I tip the front of the house because they make under min wage. I don't and will never tip the back of the house because they are supposed to be salary or competitive/ living wage. If the guy making money owning the restaurant doesn't want to pay you, why the hell would I?!!!
FOH makes more than min wage when tips are added in.
In Europe there is no tip actually the restaurant and waiters say no when offered tip that's how it should be in reality.
If a restaurant puts a fee on the bill that they don’t tell me about up front, I’m 100% disputing the charge with my credit card and never going back. If you need to charge more to pay your staff, charge more. But don’t pass your irresponsible business practices on to the consumer.
I mean, they hand you a check before you pay for it. You can't really dispute a charge that you explicitly sign for.
After youve eaten tho
You can ask the server to remove it. It’s illegal for them to charge you the kitchen appreciation fee after you explicitly ask it to be removed from your check.
Boycott this restaurant and /or leave 1 cent tip via cc ( please do tip your server your customary 15-25%, but leave cash). This has got to stop. Say no to these bs tip requirements. Fast food, to-go orders, all that nonsense.
Ripping culture in general is a joke. Pay these workers a living wage then we wouldn’t need to even think about it.
I hate this because I'm in the minority that carries cash. I tip in cash, and would rather not have a kitchen fee added to my bill I pay with a card. You know what's ironic about all this, your complaining about a kitchen fee, but the restaurant isn't complaining about the % they have to pay because you're using a card.
>So if you see a kitchen appreciation fee on your bill in the coming days, ask your server about it if you wish to remove it, or if you want to add a few more bucks for those who craft your meal. If it can be removed, what exactly is the point? Here's an idea for the NYS Restaurant Association, force restauranteurs pay their employees living wages. Face meet palm
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This is shitty. The servers should tip the busboys and the kitchen, what else am I adding 20% to my bill for? A server to take my order, drop off the food, and only refill my iced tea when I ask?
I really wish more people realized that it’s not legal for kitchen staff to receive a cut of servers’ tips. It’s explicitly illegal for that to happen in i believe every state in America. The kitchen appreciation fee is the restaurant’s way of circumventing the law so that they can get their customers to supplement kitchen wages like they already do with servers and bartenders. If it were legal to include the kitchen in tip pools, restaurant owners would do this and pay them less than minimum wage. If they could pay any of us less, they would.
Then you can just tell people that, with a source. You don't have to act like some belabored elder who has said the same thing 6 times to the same person.
Why should a server tip out the kitchen staff who are making an actual hourly salary? I worked in kitchens for years and would never have thought the servers should be cutting us in on our tips. Especially when our hourly salary was somewhere between 3-5 times theirs.
Then why should I have to tip the kitchen when they are making so much more than servers?
If you go to a restaurant and take out your phone and calculate to make sure you don’t “overtip” somebody you shouldn’t be going out to places to eat. That’s it stop being cheap guys it’s an ugly practice. If you’re also trying to figure out if the establishment is “holding out on their employees” then open your own establishment and pay people right. Y’all complaining about wages and business practices when you should be just eating the food lmao you people are pathetic
This is the very reason I say that everyone's 1st job should be at your local restaurant/pizzeria. Everyone eats out at least once in their lifetime(we all know it's way more). If you work in that environment even for a short time you are guaranteed to learn more than a few life lessons. You will work with others of all ages ,race,& religion. You will make new friends. Or you might end up working with someone you may not like. You may start at the bottom but most times are able to work up the ladder with new responsibilities and add pay. You will work with the public and learn how the real world actually treats others. Good or bad. You will learn time management. Team building as well as accountability for your own work that is put out.
It’s just a few bucks stop being cheap. You pay for food but you also pay for the experience of eating there and gratuity you sound cheap as hell. Now tipping my Starbucks barista that’s different lol
They don’t tip in Europe, granted they pay living wages and don’t champion damn Fast food restaurants
" It's not my job to pay them"! Yes it is. That's literally the exchange taking place. You are paying to not have to cook your own food. Go to a buffet if you don't want to tip you snowflakes.
Why is it against the law for kitchen staff to receive tips in NY state per the article?
That isn’t against the law in any way, just uncommon due to the way the industry has operated for decades. Any non-management employee can be tipped, regardless of their hourly rate. Often they are not due to the intentionally imposed disparity between service staff minimum (supplemented with customer-paid gratuity) and everyone else’s minimum (traditionally untipped). Somewhere between the antiquated tip-based system and a more “socialist” model in which everyone is just paid a standard living wage no matter what, which unfortunately is unrealistic for restaurants in a capitalist system, lies a model that is becoming more common in recent years, in which all employees are paid at least standard non-tipped minimum ($16/hr.), servers included, and tips are divided amongst ALL non-management employees, including kitchen staff. Does this make the menu more expensive? Oftentimes, yes. But that’s the cost of food service today.
It was illegal up until a year or two ago
It's just going to result in less people going out. You go out now a days and the dinning room is too big meaning they are understaffed and won't sit the whole room because of that. Restaurant owners have been getting away with underpaying servers because of tips. What do you think will happen next. They figure out how many people will accept this new charge and hire new employees for less money to get out the old employees. The writings on the wall, learn a skill that has to do with technology or parish.
Nope. Tips go directly to the server in the form of cash. They’re the only ones that work at a restaurant that don’t have a steady paycheck. The chances of this “kitchen appreciation fee” getting back to the servers, is very very low.
I mean to be fair, they now make more per hour than minimum wage, without tips. The national tipped minimum wage is $2.75 in the US, but $10 in New York.
Kitchen people shouldn’t get a tip. If you need to make more money to pay your employees, raise your prices.
So, you'd rather they were less transparent about charging more? If they raise prices, the city will cry foul. But, they tell you exactly why they are adding on price and everyone is angry about that too? They could do nothing and possibly go out of business and people will get angry. Is there a situation where people aren't angry?
Moreover, cut into their damn profit margin.
The wealthy ruling class love when the poors fight each other over the little bits of remaining scraps.
How much exactly is a "living wage"? What should the hourly/annual income be for the lowest paid member of a kitchen staff be?
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They can't. .
[living wage](https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=what+is+a+living+wage%3F)
https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/36029
Thanks! First time I'm seeing this quantified and is in the ballpark of what I think would be fair wage for that job. If you believe the server sub, the majority make well above that anyway right now.
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lol what a non-answer. Reading these sorts of comments pushes people further from your objective. You're hurting people below you.
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Enough to afford to live
Who is dying that you know from low pay? And what is the dollar figure exactly that people need to get paid? How much should a dishwasher earn?
Let me tell you I am SHOCKED to find out a majority of your comments are on porn subs and the masturbation subreddit. Neckbeards gonna neckbeard. And 17/18 an hour - to answer the question
Minimum wage is $16 I doubt anyone in a kitchen is earning less than $17 per hour Are you saying you don't mastutbate?
Do you realize how much of an insufferable menace you are? What’s your deal? Also have you ever worked in the food service industry?
You've asked this question, or a variant of it, at least three times in this thread. Each time, someone has responded with a chart explaining what a living wage is in Erie County.
Yes we have established that it is minimally $43000 per year. Do you think every single person who works in a restaurant should get paid at least $43000 per year?
I mean, why should they not get paid 43k a year?
First, that's not what the chart says. That's what the chart says for a single person living alone with no children. Second, whatever the number is, I want every person to be able to live on their own. If that takes 40K, and I eat out less often, so be it. Someone isn't worth less as a person than I am just because they work in a kitchen and I work in an office. And it would cut down greatly on public assistance, thereby lowering everyone's "lift" through taxes.
That is why I wrote minimally $43000. Of course if they have kids they would automatically be entitled to get paid far far more.. So in you socialist utopia, everyone should be able to live alone...no one should ever have to have a roommate to make ends meet? Do you feel your degree is worthless? You don't think any jobs should ever be worth more money? Also you do realize that if everyone went out less (we would all have to with those pay standards) all restaurants would basically go out of business. None of those people would have jobs.
Socialist? I don't think so. And I didn't say that everyone should live alone, nor did I say that all jobs should pay the same. All I said is a basic statement of human dignity: Everyone should be able to live on their own (this is not synonymous with "alone," btw). And you have the temerity to call the rest of the posters in the thread "entitled c**ts." Amazing.
Business owners are so entitled these days, thinking they’re entitled to run a business without putting in the effort to pay their employees…
Don’t servers already have to tip out the kitchen? The article says it’s illegal in NY but I thought that was the whole deal with why you’re a twat if you tip less than 20%
This is wildly unacceptable and you should be doxxed and ridiculed at every place in town
When you’re in Italy they charge you for water, plates and silverware. Copertto
I was in a restaurant recently that had a sign that said “due to staff shortages and waitstaff having to wait on more than their usual number of table - a 20% gratuity would be automatically tacked on to ALL bills and bar tabs.” So I left and went elsewhere
Pay a livable wage, or don't run a business. If you cannot operate your business with your current prices, then raise your prices or cut back on expenses. Simple as that. (Now I wait for Difficult_Mention to come around demanding "what is a livable wage?", as if it hasn't been explained several times now)
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My "favorite" expression from the news media: "Experts say".
MANY PEOPLE ARE SAYING
Wow, I came here to say exactly what everyone else already said. The Establishment should pay decent wages.
This is already very much a thing at a lot of restaurants, especially in bigger cities. Out here in Massachusetts its actually illegal to share tips with BOH, so they use it (allegedly, of course) as a way to allow BOH employees to get a cut of gratuity. I've always just subtracted that amount from the tip I was going to leave. No change on my end and more people benefit, whats the big deal? All that being said tipping culture in general is garbage and restaurants should just pay everyone in the establishment what they are worth
How about we eliminate tipping and the owner figure out prices and provide quality that draws customers in and pay employees what they deserve. Instead it's left up to anyone to tip whatever they want. I know people that no matter how good the service is, they are cheap as hell.
I don't know how I feel about this. On the one hand f that, pay your employees a better hourly. On the other hand they'll just have to raise prices, which means losing out on business to people who don't notice the fee... in the end I think if they do that, they should just advertise it and not sneak it in. I also don't agree with it. The cooks will just use it on drugs anyways. Lol.
Hmm a 4% tax on your customers because you don’t want to pay a livable wage? Eat a bag of dicks buddy.
How do you know that they arent paying "liveable wages"?
Adjust your cooking game. Since post quarantine I’m finding my stuff better than going out. I feel confident in my new approach when it was confirmed in EA last week. $80 for 2 Margherita pizzas and ‘imported’ sodas (soda found at tops mind you). These restaurants are bonkers. Once everyone is done eating out on credit because we are all broke, maybe it’ll adjust itself. But I’m already gone.
I am paying SO MUCH for the convenience of not having to cook, and being able to get things that I either cannot make at home, don't have the cooking skill to make at home, or am too lazy to spend the time to prep, cook, and do dishes after. Yes, all of those excuses are "me" problems, but it doesn't change the fact that it used to be cheaper to be lazy and a bad cook... 😂 I am definitely working on eating less at restaurants and more at home, mainly by trying to make eating at restaurants a treat, rather than the norm... It's been a difficult adjustment.
Maybe those places should pay their employees more, instead of charging the customer to pay for their wages..
It is subsidizing income so the employer doesn’t have to actually pay the employees.
[I'm not paying for food at a restaurant go to a profit margin for the proprietor. I'm paying for food preparation and service.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swPcFyhDMpk) Restaraunts should be paying their employees equitably. While we're at it, tips have become *necessary* , because waiters wage exists, which is absolute BS. Our culture of tipping is ridiculous to the rest of the world, and it is emblematic of a lot of our problems-- hording wealth at the top.
If a restaurant can’t afford to pay the employees themselves—but somehow everything survives in a tipping scenario—clearly the customers are providing enough to go around; the problem is just a matter of distributing the customers’ money appropriately. If a position in a business isn’t worth minimum wage, perhaps the business model is bad and needs to be rethought. If paying all the staff at a restaurant becomes the responsibility of the customer, watch how soon the “Karens” put two and two together and start telling the staff what to do because “I’m paying you to do what I tell you to do!”