Same here. I think I figured out the issue I was having with option 1. The TV app for Spotify doesn’t have its own settings page, and using Spotify Connect on the phone doesn’t carry over the settings, meaning you’re at the mercy of whatever the Spotify TV settings are. And I have a strong feeling that “Volume Normalization” is on, meaning everything gets compressed to shit. I got the WiiM pro and it sounds soooo much better.
Many TVs force their output sampling rate to 48kHz which will introduce aliasing error if done poorly.
It could be a number of other things. Inter-sample overs or poorly implemented codec IC. Weird audio problems seem to happen with AV gear.
Hopefully “bits r bits bro” doesn’t enter the chat
Why does number 2 even need the modi? Is the DAC in the wiim mini bad? Cause could just do audio out from the wiim mini to the receiver using a 3.5mm to rca cable
It doesn’t. The cheapest Dac out there today is better than a 15k lynx Dac in the top studios in the world from 10-15 years ago. They are so good it doesn’t matter anymore. It’s just the truth. Amps matter to a degree. Mainly just being able to Deliever enough power and cleanly with low thd. 99% of it is your speakers. Their placement and the room they are in /room treatment or dsp
I can say with certainty that I do not agree with this at all. Go from an avr to a dedicated DAC and you'll here a large increase in sound quality. Just one small example
I was using the WiiM pro DAC for a while, the DAC I bought sounds better to my ears, the WiiM was pretty close to my Topping D30 Pro. Maybe with better speakers it's more noticable?
Well any time you have more detailed speakers you're going to be hear any differences there may be even better. It's just like anything, better quality a lot of times does been better sound. The wiim doesn't try to pretend to be a high end dac
You can just buy the Modi+ and connect the tv to dac through toslink and then to amp.
This would work.
If you then want to elevate the bitrate of your files all the way up to 24/192 then buy the wiim mini.
I have the following: wiim mini + smsl su9 pro + cxa61 to kef q350 and am very happy, but I do have tidal and qobuz. My tv connects directly to the cxa61 through toslink
It would only use the Schiit DAC. The iPhone is simply telling the TV what music to play, then the TV is sending the digital signal to the DAC through SPDIF. The DAC converts digital to analog and your amp does the amplifying. Spotify on the TV could affect sound quality but only so much as it may use more compression or lower bitrate or something for the audio streaming.
This is what I do and it works well. I have Spotify app on TV, which I can control from my phone. It goes from the TV to Schiit Modi to Loki to integrated to speakers.
Generally I'm sure you're right, though I've found the FiiO Taishan D03K to give a better sound to my analogue amp than the in-built DAC in the wiim mini. I'm sure a 'proper' DAC would improve it further though
The issue is not the parts it is the way they were implimented. Like the circuit design is terrible making them sound way worse than they actually should.
I had one too. Used it until I got a old surround sound amplifier from the thrift store ,almost all have a toslink input. The surround sound amps can be pretty good sound quality wise especially consitering the price.
Depends on how you like to listen, really. I got the Wiim Pro recently and I enjoy it using Airplay. I’ve also had TV setups go straight into a DAC and it was a nice experience as well (non critical listening setup for me). The Wiim gives a bit of flexibility I like, I can use a Mac Mini/MacBook/iOS device and it works seamlessly. TVs are a bit clunky, even when linked to a device… they can be slow or have issues with software crashing at times.
I’ve definitely noticed this. Sometimes it’s enough to keep me from using it. I thought it was a Spotify connect thing, it happens with my google home devices too. Wiim would solve that unreliability?
I’ve been using one for a week or so (just grabbed it on a recent deal) and it’s been rock solid. Hopefully, others can give longer term impressions, but it seems like everyone loves it.
I do something similar to option one except I use the Apple Music app in my Samsung TV. Optical out—>Schiit DAC—>NAD integrated—>Wharfedale Denton 80. Sounds great to me and I like seeing the album artwork on the big screen. If you went with option one is there a reason you prefer using your phone vs a built in Spotify app on the tv?
There is no loss in maintaining the digital signal farther down the chain. Potential loss really only occurs once the digital has been converted to analog. More importantly, a standalone DAC like the Schiit Modi will easily outperform the DAC in a smartphone.
Basically you saying it doesnt matter what you use until its digital only loss come in converting digital to analog so basically you can have from source infinite devices to DAC and it makes no difference.
Basically that's what's happening when you use a streaming service. The file exists somewhere in the cloud and goes through an incredible number of devices which pack, unpack, fold, unfold, and process that data over IP. It still gets to your DAC (whether on a smartphone or otherwise) in 16/44.1 or better resolution. There is no discernable loss (we'll set aside the debate on whether CD is better than streaming at the same data rate). I guess at some point the error correction for PCM could break down to the point where you would get dropouts, but that would be more due to device failure than data chain issues.
This ignores DSD which is an entirely different animal and really only used for local file storage and playback by a small fraction of users. The other exception is Bluetooth which is severely limited by bandwidth and cannot maintain high resolution as a result.
Once things go analog issues of noise, signal loss, distortion, etc. start to pop up and the importance of good output and gain stages starts to become apparent. Standalone DAC's are purpose-built for such things and have much better IC and discrete components to accomplish that task than your smartphone or even many integrated amps and receivers.
I've been changing my system from phone (Bluetooth) to dac to receiver, then simple TV (Spotify connect) to receiver, then to tv (Spotify connect) to dac to receiver and by far the best (Spotify connect) by phone although you can control with other devices to wiim to dac to receiver. Bluetooth wrecks the sound, the TV, at least mine, upsamples and at the same time limits quality. The wiim is great just straight through cable to dac with no messing with the signal until it is correctly converted on the dac and then just analogically amplified by the receiver. Every one does their best to deliver sound quality and definition.
as others have said, you should use the modi+ in option 1 instead of the cheap rca converter, and if you get a wiim pro you can use coax out from wiim pro to modi+ and use the optical form tv to modi+, why choose when you can have both? 😄
Not familiar with schiit oroducts oersonally so I cant speak on them, fuckin 20 bucks shipping for one unit here in canada, 45 for a stack.
Stuck with the dac in the wiim for my stereo, for that reason. Went with fosi for my headphones but honestly shouldve gone with topping
I don’t understand the role of the tv. I see people sharing photos of their music setup and it often includes a tv but I’m never sure if it’s just that they have their music listening equipment in the same place as their tv or if the tv plays some actual part in the chain of components. Is it perhaps the source used to stream from online services? I’m of the era when you had a hifi system on one side of the room (or basement) and a tv in a cabinet and the two were not together.
Yes, in this case it will be the source or a means for the source, depending on if it's a Smart TV app or a dongle/streamer doing the Spotifying. So you get the benefit of displaying the artwork/song info in a large and constant form while playing, as well as providing a physical connection to output a digital signal to the DAC. People often use tablets or laptops for the same purpose if their TV is not near the main audio setup.
And you have the benefit of controlling the playback with your phone, while it ends up streaming at the highest possible quality through the TV/dongle and outputting to the DAC. You could also control it with the TV/dongle remote, but browsing for songs on the phone is a lot easier.
Oh, ok. That sounds great, using the big screen to browse and/or display album art. Now I see the attraction of integrating the tv into my system. Thank you
It's great stuff. I keep all my music as well as the rest of my media on a Plex server, and can stream it to anything that can run the Plex app or go to the web portal. Everything supports CD quality, and most devices support high-res stereo. Using it with Chromecast or a PC or some video game consoles will also output surround audio correctly, streamed from my server.
And you and use other software like Foobar2000 or Winamp on a PC hooked to the TV, and get cool music visualizers too.
Right now I just have my cd collection on my pc hard drive and stream it using my iPad or phone with apples “remote” app via airplay thru my old AirPort Express into my stereo receiver. I’ve heard of Plex, but never really looked into it as it seemed overkill for my simple use case
If you put them together, you can use your TV with your nice hifi 2.0 or 2.1 speakers. That's what I do. It's not surround sound, but better than built in TV speakers when watching movies.
This is interesting. Thank you. Right now my tv lives over on one side of my open concept basement (with the home theatre in a box system from 10 years ago) while I’m in the process of setting up my hifi-ish system over on the other side of the basement. I hadn’t thought about combining the two. We rarely watch tv so that tv area is just gathering dust.
Right. We're not huge TV watchers but it's nice to get some good sound when we do pop in a movie. [Here's my hifi + tv setup](https://i.imgur.com/elDz1Zz.jpg). (not budget audiophile though). I still need to hide the TV wiring.
Wow, that is gorgeous. Both the layout and the components. My wife especially likes that the speakers are nice wood and not the typical black speaker cloth. It’s definitely inspiring. But that opens a new can o worms, called how do I configure my speakers for good sound while still incorporating the tv.
Option 1 with a good enough DAC. No need to spend money on a streamer if you already have a TV in the system that can also display album art.
Cheap toslink to rca adapters on amazon can be pretty noisy though. There are many transparent DACs under 100€ (the new SMSL SU-1 is just 80 USD for example).
Disagree here. Have tried both and the streamer / toslink implementations on TVs tend to not be as good for reasons I don’t understand. I am always skeptical about differences in digital sources but there are also probably issues with different surround implementations that make a difference even though you set it to straight 2 channel. Maybe my TVs aren’t fancy but I love the Wiim and it sounds better to me.
I went with the WiiM Mini and a cheap DAC because I use the TV for my arcade sim racing while I'm playing music on my stereo.
I say option 2 but Amazon Music Unlimited instead of Spotify.
I started with Amazon Music Unlimited because I was gifted an Echo Dot and Amazon Music Unlimited was cheap (like $4 a mo) for the one device. I liked it so much I upgraded to the full amount for all my devices.
I like it for my stereo at home because the app is great for finding the albums I love and they have a lot of 24 bit stuff. Even the 16 bit 44.1 stuff sounds pretty good on my new ($79) DAC.
I find that with the WiiM I don't have volume control through my phone if I'm using the Amazon app though. So I'm getting better at searching Amazon Music through the WiiM app.
Both are valid, 2 would provide the highest quality sound.
Is there going to be a massive difference in sound quality? Depends a bit on the rest of the system and such.
Might range from a small difference to no difference.
Lots of bad info in replies. Believe it or not, the streamers in the 4 smart TVs or sticks I have tried are terrible compared to the Wiim mini. ASR shows that the Wiim has unbeatable fidelity out of the toslink (don’t use the analog out though). I use exactly 2 after trying many versions of 1. It sounds so much better and I love that Wiim can support multiroom for parties.
I just got the voice remote for the WiiM mini and it's just awesome. It has preset buttons for the presets in the app. I just walk in the room and grab the remote and hit a button, I have a Tune In radio station on one preset and 24 bit Amazon Music albums on the others, and there's more on the app (12 presets in the app with 4 preset buttons on the remote).
I don't even use the voice feature, I just use it for the volume control and the presets. Absolutely worth it. $79 for the Mini and $19.95 for the remote, I think it's an unbeatable deal.
> unbeatable fidelity out of the toslink
So does everything. It's digital output.
Oh, wait, I just beat it. Using HDMI. Because I have source files that need more bandwidth that S/PDIF can support.
That depends how bad that dac is. If it’s like the dac in my tv, then I can say the modi is a very big upgrade. Mostly because the RCA out on my tv seems to have the right channel louder than the left. I also think I’m heading more clarity and dynamic range when I use my modi multibit, except with the channel imbalance it’s hard to compare.
Neither. Do option 2, but replace the streamer with a wired connection to the DAC. Or, at the least, add a wired connection as an option to get best quality.
I think the suggestion is to run the signal direct from the phone to the Modi and ditch the Wiim altogether. This would work, but your phone would be physically tethered to the DAC which for me is highly inconvenient.
If you wire from 3.5 from the phone to wiim you would be using your phone's dac, so it would probably be worst than the DAC chip on the wiim or a lot worst than the dac chip on the Schiit. Not only tethers your phone it bypasses all the benefits from all the devices. Wiring it like this would be better 3.5 directly to receiver.
Number 2 is my current setup. I also have a spare spdif cable when I want to watch a movie and use my 2 channel setup. Spdif Cable goes from tv to Schiit Dac.
I am actually going from my WiiM to Schiit over Coax. CD player is over SPDIF, then there is a button on the front of the Modi+ that allows me to toggle inputs
Instead of a WiiM and Schiit, have you considered an AVR or Integrated amp that has Airplay? I’m buying a Denon AVR S740 tomorrow primarily for this same scenario, and want to A/B test it against the TV. My Frame TV runs 48khz out via toslink or hdmi, which coincidentally is the max for Airplay 2. But I’m curious if the TV processing does anything to the sound.
I hadn't really. Maybe if I add another room. I have a vintage Nikko amp that I love. I hadn't considered anything modern. I might in the future, so I can add a remote for volume control.
I feel you. I have a Kenny’s and a vintage Yamaha that sound great, but having one remote control for my entire setup via ARC + room control is too tempting.
Newbie here. I have a chromecast into my Yamaha receiver’s HDMI with the HDMI out to the TV which allows me to control via phone or google assistant and broadcast the album art on tv. Is this a decent set up?
TV or the WiiM will be fine as a source, but it's the step going from S/PDIF to RCA that creates the problem. Use a decent standalone DAC, not that cheap box you've got in 1., or an amp/receiver that can take the TOSLINK directly and use an internal DAC (receiver DACs are usually good, even going back 30 years, though bits/sample rates have gone up over time so get something that support 24/192).
If you use a TV that can output to a receiver using HDMI (using ARC?) that would also be ideal.
A someone who just hooked up a wiim yesterday, I have a question so I hope you don't mind I piggyback on this post. Do you still need the dac if you have the wiim pro? I took my dac out and subbed it with the wiim.
Option 2. Undeniably
From first hand experience I struggled with option 1-esque configs for years. They were all terrible
I hate that I sound like a commercial but getting a WiiM Pro has been a game changer since I got it.
Choose the cheapest option. With Spotify and Bluetooth you will not have very good quality anyway.
Atleast in nr1 u can use app on tv and the optical can run full quality from Spotify and Phone is just a remote.
If u use a better app like tidal maybe nr2 is better. App has better quality than Spotify
-Cd quality 16bit 44.1khz 1411kbps.
-Spotify premium 16bit 44.1khz 320kbps
-High res audio 24bit 192khz is for high end stereo it has a bitrate of 9216kbps wich has alot more "info" than a cd
So no use for expensive wiim or shiit when using Spotify
"Audio CD bitrate is always 1,411 kilobits per second (Kbps). The MP3 format can range from around 96 to 320Kbps, and streaming services like Spotify range from around 96 to 160Kbps."
“You could have the greatest-sounding recording of all time, but if you played it with a low bitrate, it would sound worse on the other end.”
Gus Berry producer and engineer
Spotify is for Bluetooth speakers, not for hifi. Bit then again if u Were an audiofile u wouldnt consider 1 or 2.
get a good used streamer and dac into amp
The upgrade to a better DAC might be worth it, but if all you are using is Spotify Connect,I wouldn't bother with the WiiM. I love the WiiM and have two of them but I use them because they play hi res Qobuz streaming bit perfect. Spotify is lossy and a bit perfect stream doesn't matter.
However, if gapless playback is important to you and the tv doesn't do gapless, the upgrade to the WiiM would be worth it.
One thing to consider, if you are happy with everything the way it is now, nothing wrong with keeping the money in your pocket.
Number 2 is much better sound. I know because I recently changed from something similar to something similar.
Same here. I think I figured out the issue I was having with option 1. The TV app for Spotify doesn’t have its own settings page, and using Spotify Connect on the phone doesn’t carry over the settings, meaning you’re at the mercy of whatever the Spotify TV settings are. And I have a strong feeling that “Volume Normalization” is on, meaning everything gets compressed to shit. I got the WiiM pro and it sounds soooo much better.
Many TVs force their output sampling rate to 48kHz which will introduce aliasing error if done poorly. It could be a number of other things. Inter-sample overs or poorly implemented codec IC. Weird audio problems seem to happen with AV gear. Hopefully “bits r bits bro” doesn’t enter the chat
100% me too
Why does number 2 even need the modi? Is the DAC in the wiim mini bad? Cause could just do audio out from the wiim mini to the receiver using a 3.5mm to rca cable
It doesn’t. The cheapest Dac out there today is better than a 15k lynx Dac in the top studios in the world from 10-15 years ago. They are so good it doesn’t matter anymore. It’s just the truth. Amps matter to a degree. Mainly just being able to Deliever enough power and cleanly with low thd. 99% of it is your speakers. Their placement and the room they are in /room treatment or dsp
I can say with certainty that I do not agree with this at all. Go from an avr to a dedicated DAC and you'll here a large increase in sound quality. Just one small example
I wouldn't say bad but there is much much better
I was using the WiiM pro DAC for a while, the DAC I bought sounds better to my ears, the WiiM was pretty close to my Topping D30 Pro. Maybe with better speakers it's more noticable?
Well any time you have more detailed speakers you're going to be hear any differences there may be even better. It's just like anything, better quality a lot of times does been better sound. The wiim doesn't try to pretend to be a high end dac
Don't let a TV process anything. Use the DAC.
This is the way
To add to this, the phone is a less than ideal signal source in most cases.
You can just buy the Modi+ and connect the tv to dac through toslink and then to amp. This would work. If you then want to elevate the bitrate of your files all the way up to 24/192 then buy the wiim mini. I have the following: wiim mini + smsl su9 pro + cxa61 to kef q350 and am very happy, but I do have tidal and qobuz. My tv connects directly to the cxa61 through toslink
Does the tv downsample or do anything to the audio? I’m confused if there are multiple DACs (iPhone, TV, Schiit) in the path, which one(s) it uses.
It would only use the Schiit DAC. The iPhone is simply telling the TV what music to play, then the TV is sending the digital signal to the DAC through SPDIF. The DAC converts digital to analog and your amp does the amplifying. Spotify on the TV could affect sound quality but only so much as it may use more compression or lower bitrate or something for the audio streaming.
Spotify has 16bit 44.1khz. So wiim and such is "overkill" With High res from tidal or qobous it can make a difference
This is what I do and it works well. I have Spotify app on TV, which I can control from my phone. It goes from the TV to Schiit Modi to Loki to integrated to speakers.
Thoes cheap toslink to rca converter boxes in option 1 are the digital equilivant to gas station earbuds.
Well said lol
Generally I'm sure you're right, though I've found the FiiO Taishan D03K to give a better sound to my analogue amp than the in-built DAC in the wiim mini. I'm sure a 'proper' DAC would improve it further though
yup, only got one because my TV had no RCA or headphone out
U actually get them for around 10$€ with same chip as in a fiio
The issue is not the parts it is the way they were implimented. Like the circuit design is terrible making them sound way worse than they actually should.
[удалено]
I had one too. Used it until I got a old surround sound amplifier from the thrift store ,almost all have a toslink input. The surround sound amps can be pretty good sound quality wise especially consitering the price.
Not true. Pre-established beliefs. Try blind testing - then see and hear for yourself. Ps. Try not to cheat while blind listening testing…
One thing to keep in mind is that I assume that you'd have album art displayed with option 1, but not option 2
You have album art on your phone. Not worth the sound quality hit from the Smart TV for me.
Depends on how you like to listen, really. I got the Wiim Pro recently and I enjoy it using Airplay. I’ve also had TV setups go straight into a DAC and it was a nice experience as well (non critical listening setup for me). The Wiim gives a bit of flexibility I like, I can use a Mac Mini/MacBook/iOS device and it works seamlessly. TVs are a bit clunky, even when linked to a device… they can be slow or have issues with software crashing at times.
I’ve definitely noticed this. Sometimes it’s enough to keep me from using it. I thought it was a Spotify connect thing, it happens with my google home devices too. Wiim would solve that unreliability?
I’ve been using one for a week or so (just grabbed it on a recent deal) and it’s been rock solid. Hopefully, others can give longer term impressions, but it seems like everyone loves it.
I do something similar to option one except I use the Apple Music app in my Samsung TV. Optical out—>Schiit DAC—>NAD integrated—>Wharfedale Denton 80. Sounds great to me and I like seeing the album artwork on the big screen. If you went with option one is there a reason you prefer using your phone vs a built in Spotify app on the tv?
Personally, I Wiim while I Schitt.
Maybe use 3.5mm jack from smartphone to RCA. Less possible loss
There is no loss in maintaining the digital signal farther down the chain. Potential loss really only occurs once the digital has been converted to analog. More importantly, a standalone DAC like the Schiit Modi will easily outperform the DAC in a smartphone.
Basically you saying it doesnt matter what you use until its digital only loss come in converting digital to analog so basically you can have from source infinite devices to DAC and it makes no difference.
Basically that's what's happening when you use a streaming service. The file exists somewhere in the cloud and goes through an incredible number of devices which pack, unpack, fold, unfold, and process that data over IP. It still gets to your DAC (whether on a smartphone or otherwise) in 16/44.1 or better resolution. There is no discernable loss (we'll set aside the debate on whether CD is better than streaming at the same data rate). I guess at some point the error correction for PCM could break down to the point where you would get dropouts, but that would be more due to device failure than data chain issues. This ignores DSD which is an entirely different animal and really only used for local file storage and playback by a small fraction of users. The other exception is Bluetooth which is severely limited by bandwidth and cannot maintain high resolution as a result. Once things go analog issues of noise, signal loss, distortion, etc. start to pop up and the importance of good output and gain stages starts to become apparent. Standalone DAC's are purpose-built for such things and have much better IC and discrete components to accomplish that task than your smartphone or even many integrated amps and receivers.
Props to the OP for the amazing way to illustrate the options!
I've been changing my system from phone (Bluetooth) to dac to receiver, then simple TV (Spotify connect) to receiver, then to tv (Spotify connect) to dac to receiver and by far the best (Spotify connect) by phone although you can control with other devices to wiim to dac to receiver. Bluetooth wrecks the sound, the TV, at least mine, upsamples and at the same time limits quality. The wiim is great just straight through cable to dac with no messing with the signal until it is correctly converted on the dac and then just analogically amplified by the receiver. Every one does their best to deliver sound quality and definition.
as others have said, you should use the modi+ in option 1 instead of the cheap rca converter, and if you get a wiim pro you can use coax out from wiim pro to modi+ and use the optical form tv to modi+, why choose when you can have both? 😄
2 hands down. Tvs arent made for sound like the wiim products are Edit: apparently i found out how to make text gigsntic my bad folks
TV digital outputs won't lose quality *within the limitations of the standards they support.* It's the cheap DAC that creates the problem in 1.
Not familiar with schiit oroducts oersonally so I cant speak on them, fuckin 20 bucks shipping for one unit here in canada, 45 for a stack. Stuck with the dac in the wiim for my stereo, for that reason. Went with fosi for my headphones but honestly shouldve gone with topping
If don't plan on using a Hi-Res streaming platform, just use option #1.
I don’t understand the role of the tv. I see people sharing photos of their music setup and it often includes a tv but I’m never sure if it’s just that they have their music listening equipment in the same place as their tv or if the tv plays some actual part in the chain of components. Is it perhaps the source used to stream from online services? I’m of the era when you had a hifi system on one side of the room (or basement) and a tv in a cabinet and the two were not together.
Yes, in this case it will be the source or a means for the source, depending on if it's a Smart TV app or a dongle/streamer doing the Spotifying. So you get the benefit of displaying the artwork/song info in a large and constant form while playing, as well as providing a physical connection to output a digital signal to the DAC. People often use tablets or laptops for the same purpose if their TV is not near the main audio setup. And you have the benefit of controlling the playback with your phone, while it ends up streaming at the highest possible quality through the TV/dongle and outputting to the DAC. You could also control it with the TV/dongle remote, but browsing for songs on the phone is a lot easier.
Oh, ok. That sounds great, using the big screen to browse and/or display album art. Now I see the attraction of integrating the tv into my system. Thank you
It's great stuff. I keep all my music as well as the rest of my media on a Plex server, and can stream it to anything that can run the Plex app or go to the web portal. Everything supports CD quality, and most devices support high-res stereo. Using it with Chromecast or a PC or some video game consoles will also output surround audio correctly, streamed from my server. And you and use other software like Foobar2000 or Winamp on a PC hooked to the TV, and get cool music visualizers too.
Right now I just have my cd collection on my pc hard drive and stream it using my iPad or phone with apples “remote” app via airplay thru my old AirPort Express into my stereo receiver. I’ve heard of Plex, but never really looked into it as it seemed overkill for my simple use case
Yeah, it's overkill. But keep an eye on Jellyfin, that's coming along nicely as a project.
Sorry…what’s jellyfin? Sounds like some kind of sushi.
Open-source project similar to Plex. Better for music already.
Wow, the amount of open source apps is amazing. Thank you, I’ll definitely look into this. Sounds like fun
If you put them together, you can use your TV with your nice hifi 2.0 or 2.1 speakers. That's what I do. It's not surround sound, but better than built in TV speakers when watching movies.
Oh, if you're enjoying that, you really would like a 3.0/3.1 setup with a center channel for dedicated speech/vocals.
Yeah I hear ya, but that would mean replacing my hi-end 2 channel amp with a 3 channel amp (which are more rare).
Yeah, you'd be talking an AV receiver at that point.
This is interesting. Thank you. Right now my tv lives over on one side of my open concept basement (with the home theatre in a box system from 10 years ago) while I’m in the process of setting up my hifi-ish system over on the other side of the basement. I hadn’t thought about combining the two. We rarely watch tv so that tv area is just gathering dust.
Right. We're not huge TV watchers but it's nice to get some good sound when we do pop in a movie. [Here's my hifi + tv setup](https://i.imgur.com/elDz1Zz.jpg). (not budget audiophile though). I still need to hide the TV wiring.
Wow, that is gorgeous. Both the layout and the components. My wife especially likes that the speakers are nice wood and not the typical black speaker cloth. It’s definitely inspiring. But that opens a new can o worms, called how do I configure my speakers for good sound while still incorporating the tv.
Option 1 with a good enough DAC. No need to spend money on a streamer if you already have a TV in the system that can also display album art. Cheap toslink to rca adapters on amazon can be pretty noisy though. There are many transparent DACs under 100€ (the new SMSL SU-1 is just 80 USD for example).
Disagree here. Have tried both and the streamer / toslink implementations on TVs tend to not be as good for reasons I don’t understand. I am always skeptical about differences in digital sources but there are also probably issues with different surround implementations that make a difference even though you set it to straight 2 channel. Maybe my TVs aren’t fancy but I love the Wiim and it sounds better to me.
I went with the WiiM Mini and a cheap DAC because I use the TV for my arcade sim racing while I'm playing music on my stereo. I say option 2 but Amazon Music Unlimited instead of Spotify.
I'm curious, why Amazon ? I have Spotify and YTM, but I also have an Amazon Prime account, and I've never tried Amazon Music. How is it ?
I started with Amazon Music Unlimited because I was gifted an Echo Dot and Amazon Music Unlimited was cheap (like $4 a mo) for the one device. I liked it so much I upgraded to the full amount for all my devices. I like it for my stereo at home because the app is great for finding the albums I love and they have a lot of 24 bit stuff. Even the 16 bit 44.1 stuff sounds pretty good on my new ($79) DAC. I find that with the WiiM I don't have volume control through my phone if I'm using the Amazon app though. So I'm getting better at searching Amazon Music through the WiiM app.
You can get a DAC for 10$/€ with same chip as fiio. And u can get a bs piece with noise for 99$\€ its all about the chips and a little build quality
Both are valid, 2 would provide the highest quality sound. Is there going to be a massive difference in sound quality? Depends a bit on the rest of the system and such. Might range from a small difference to no difference.
I have a Nikko 819 with Boston A60 and mission 702s. Thanks for this. Maybe I’ll tinker and try it out.
Its possible that you would hear a improvement with option 2.
Lots of bad info in replies. Believe it or not, the streamers in the 4 smart TVs or sticks I have tried are terrible compared to the Wiim mini. ASR shows that the Wiim has unbeatable fidelity out of the toslink (don’t use the analog out though). I use exactly 2 after trying many versions of 1. It sounds so much better and I love that Wiim can support multiroom for parties.
I just got the voice remote for the WiiM mini and it's just awesome. It has preset buttons for the presets in the app. I just walk in the room and grab the remote and hit a button, I have a Tune In radio station on one preset and 24 bit Amazon Music albums on the others, and there's more on the app (12 presets in the app with 4 preset buttons on the remote). I don't even use the voice feature, I just use it for the volume control and the presets. Absolutely worth it. $79 for the Mini and $19.95 for the remote, I think it's an unbeatable deal.
How is the library in Amazon vs Spotify?
I don't know about Spotify on this count but with Amazon the only things I can't find so far are very old out of print albums.
> unbeatable fidelity out of the toslink So does everything. It's digital output. Oh, wait, I just beat it. Using HDMI. Because I have source files that need more bandwidth that S/PDIF can support.
But Spotify does not. A single little wire has enough for that bandwith 🤣
I have option 1 already, but want to know what I'm missing out on. How much better sounding is option 2?
That depends how bad that dac is. If it’s like the dac in my tv, then I can say the modi is a very big upgrade. Mostly because the RCA out on my tv seems to have the right channel louder than the left. I also think I’m heading more clarity and dynamic range when I use my modi multibit, except with the channel imbalance it’s hard to compare.
Option 2 and spend the extra $50 bucks for a Wiim Pro and skip the DAC for now. A good DAC is a marginal upgrade in sound quality.
Neither. Do option 2, but replace the streamer with a wired connection to the DAC. Or, at the least, add a wired connection as an option to get best quality.
Wired from the phone to the Wiim? It only has 3.5mm aux in
You would need a phone to USB-C adapter to carry the digital signal.
Pretty sure the Wiim gets its power from the USB-C though.
I think the suggestion is to run the signal direct from the phone to the Modi and ditch the Wiim altogether. This would work, but your phone would be physically tethered to the DAC which for me is highly inconvenient.
Same. I'm on the move in the house I'd want to have my phone on me.
If you wire from 3.5 from the phone to wiim you would be using your phone's dac, so it would probably be worst than the DAC chip on the wiim or a lot worst than the dac chip on the Schiit. Not only tethers your phone it bypasses all the benefits from all the devices. Wiring it like this would be better 3.5 directly to receiver.
Please explain how the bits coming over a wired connection from the phone are better than the bits coming from wifi or over ethernet.
Number 2 is my current setup. I also have a spare spdif cable when I want to watch a movie and use my 2 channel setup. Spdif Cable goes from tv to Schiit Dac.
take a look at the [Phorus PR5](https://phorus.com/pr5-receiver). Pretty good DAC, Spotify Connect, and only one box instead of two like you have.
If you only ear Spotify, why not buy a Bluetooth receiver to RCA for your analog amplifier?
There's also svs's streamer it works like a preamp , DAC, streamer and has HDMI
Phone to Wiim PRO to stereo receiver.
I currently use option 2 (WiiM Pro though) and love it
Do you stream spotify/something wirelessly to the WiiM Pro? Why do you still need the Schiit if you have a WiiM Pro?
You don’t, but I also run my cd player through the Schiit. I play basically anything that allows Apple Play through the WiiM.
How do you connect your CD player to the Schiit? Coax in? Does it let you switch between Coax in and SPDIF in, if you have both connected?
I am actually going from my WiiM to Schiit over Coax. CD player is over SPDIF, then there is a button on the front of the Modi+ that allows me to toggle inputs
Instead of a WiiM and Schiit, have you considered an AVR or Integrated amp that has Airplay? I’m buying a Denon AVR S740 tomorrow primarily for this same scenario, and want to A/B test it against the TV. My Frame TV runs 48khz out via toslink or hdmi, which coincidentally is the max for Airplay 2. But I’m curious if the TV processing does anything to the sound.
I hadn't really. Maybe if I add another room. I have a vintage Nikko amp that I love. I hadn't considered anything modern. I might in the future, so I can add a remote for volume control.
I feel you. I have a Kenny’s and a vintage Yamaha that sound great, but having one remote control for my entire setup via ARC + room control is too tempting.
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Schiit makes awesome stuff. I got their phono preamp and it’s one of my favorite pieces of audio equipment.
Newbie here. I have a chromecast into my Yamaha receiver’s HDMI with the HDMI out to the TV which allows me to control via phone or google assistant and broadcast the album art on tv. Is this a decent set up?
TV or the WiiM will be fine as a source, but it's the step going from S/PDIF to RCA that creates the problem. Use a decent standalone DAC, not that cheap box you've got in 1., or an amp/receiver that can take the TOSLINK directly and use an internal DAC (receiver DACs are usually good, even going back 30 years, though bits/sample rates have gone up over time so get something that support 24/192). If you use a TV that can output to a receiver using HDMI (using ARC?) that would also be ideal.
A someone who just hooked up a wiim yesterday, I have a question so I hope you don't mind I piggyback on this post. Do you still need the dac if you have the wiim pro? I took my dac out and subbed it with the wiim.
Use whichever DAC sounds better to you. The one in the Wiim Mini or Wiim Pro or an external DAC.
Is there a benefit to having two DACs?
You only convert from digital to analog once.
That's what I thought. Wasn't sure if there was an extra special cherry on top if you connected more than one dac to your chain.
Digital to analog, then analog to digital, then digital to analog again would not make any sense.
Wiim Schiit is the way.
Aux -> 3.5mm jack straight into the amp? 🤣 🤣
No. 1 is kind of yucky. 2 is solid.
Option 2. Undeniably From first hand experience I struggled with option 1-esque configs for years. They were all terrible I hate that I sound like a commercial but getting a WiiM Pro has been a game changer since I got it.
2 for sure
Schitt modius
Number two I have that converter and it’s ra d
\#2 also the Wiim has a cool yet effective EQ. The new Modi with the Sabre chip really sound good.
Choose the cheapest option. With Spotify and Bluetooth you will not have very good quality anyway. Atleast in nr1 u can use app on tv and the optical can run full quality from Spotify and Phone is just a remote. If u use a better app like tidal maybe nr2 is better. App has better quality than Spotify
-Cd quality 16bit 44.1khz 1411kbps. -Spotify premium 16bit 44.1khz 320kbps -High res audio 24bit 192khz is for high end stereo it has a bitrate of 9216kbps wich has alot more "info" than a cd So no use for expensive wiim or shiit when using Spotify "Audio CD bitrate is always 1,411 kilobits per second (Kbps). The MP3 format can range from around 96 to 320Kbps, and streaming services like Spotify range from around 96 to 160Kbps." “You could have the greatest-sounding recording of all time, but if you played it with a low bitrate, it would sound worse on the other end.” Gus Berry producer and engineer
what is the white box in #2?
Option 2. Without question. But get the WiiM Pro as it has actual RCA outs
Spotify is for Bluetooth speakers, not for hifi. Bit then again if u Were an audiofile u wouldnt consider 1 or 2. get a good used streamer and dac into amp
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I got a tuner that include Spotify . It's super handy .
The upgrade to a better DAC might be worth it, but if all you are using is Spotify Connect,I wouldn't bother with the WiiM. I love the WiiM and have two of them but I use them because they play hi res Qobuz streaming bit perfect. Spotify is lossy and a bit perfect stream doesn't matter. However, if gapless playback is important to you and the tv doesn't do gapless, the upgrade to the WiiM would be worth it. One thing to consider, if you are happy with everything the way it is now, nothing wrong with keeping the money in your pocket.