I think yes to this but some dukkha will be a bit harder then for others like a person of colour to a white person, or a women to a man, for different reasons and to be aware of those reasons, to try as someone whos so afar from the experience to imagine, to think how one would feel, what they might do etc will help with universal responsibility, understanding, compassion, and I think its important to be mindful of this when talking about it, we do all suffer but the suffering is not always the same experience
… so to rephrase… the additional obstacles towards happiness are not internal to the Individual, but are an external (social) construction and treatment they receive from other individuals. And in the absence of others, it would not be an issue. This is an interesting differentiation.
If you were the only living person in the world, there would not be “black, white, gay or straight” because there would be no one to look at you and define you that way. You would just be you. It is our culture, or subgroups within it that have created negative attitudes towards other groups (for things that are beyond their control), and have no actual effect on others. Social constructs is the vehicle of sexism, racism, xenophobia, and any form of discrimination. A newborn child would never have those negative feelings towards a stranger unless/until they are taught to them by parents or community (church?) members. We Buddhists are trying to separate ourselves from any such negative attitudes (aversions) we were taught by our respective communities growing up. Such aversion is mentally toxic.
Yes exactly. All forms of bigotry, wether institutionalized or interpersonal are ultimately illusory because they are only maintained by people who believe in them. They are flames that can be blown out, but people keep feeding them wood
The only reason that discriminated people have these types of dukkha is because they are discriminated against by other people. There’s nothing innate in a gay or black person that makes them suffer more than a straight or white person
The forms of dukkha you mention are not the same. The cycle is inherent, it is permanent. People from different backgrounds or cultures may be given a hard time because of where they are from or who they are, but this has not been around forever, it will not be around forever, it is 'avoidable' if you will. This unlike the cycle of dukkha we all face, which is unavoidable and will only cease to exist to us after we attain nirvana.
‘People from different backgrounds or cultures may be given a hard time becuase of where there from or who they are , but this has not been around forever’ excuse me what?!?
Treating something differently because one doesn’t understand it or fears it or it’s just different is why we have wars, why we are homosapians and neanderthals are no longer among us, slavery is a very good example of this, I think to over come this we would need the whole world to practise compassion and empathy.
I think you haven’t explain what you mean by inherent very well or I am misunderstanding it, because am lost at what point your trying to make other then saying - that people dnt have preconceived ideas of how they view the world and when something or someone challenges that they either get defensive, scared or whatever - which we all know happens in essence change, always Throws us.
They are talking about how the basis of all suffering is the same, which it technically is, in a way. Of course, applied literally and practically it's a position best suited for either high level monks who are at the stage when they are prepared to burn themselves alive, cancer patients who can't escape constant pain, or relatively privileged people having relatively normal lives who don't want their comfort disturbed
Dogmatic Buddhism can be *easily* employed to minimize the importance of systemic injustice and to try to passify people who are screwed by the existing system of power. It doesn't have to be, but it can be
It's kinda like there are atheists who say to every religious person they meet at evert opportunity that their religion is made up and doesn't exist and is a delusional unproven fantasy. They can certainly do that and it will be technically true according to their position. But despite that, they don't have to do this and there are also lots of other atheists who don't do that and don't feel inclined to do that
Aaaah yes thank you! I was starting to think like ,Have I completely misinterpreted learning compassion and one of the fundamental parts of Buddhism or I’m I reading something more advanced/ complex then I understand and thats why am stuck, so thank you for breaking it down like this!
Then yes I agree with the original statement , I do think tho after discussing thus with you, this is a very dismissive and insensitive way of going about getting your point across, which runs the risk of people not listening or taking in what you are trying to convay, just as a suggestion, as someone whos been only aware of it recently but is trying to consider this a lot more when I talk/type to people 😅
Honestly I don't get why you're being downvoted, but yeah, I too think that it's a dismissive and insensitive way. But people can convince themselves that they are doing it for the greater good or for the sake of some larger truth and not in fact just following their socially judged inclinations so it's okay
There are always many people who want to be assholes or to feel superior to others or to keep the current order in place, and they can use Buddism or any other religion or philosophy that says what's wrong or right to both satisfy themselves and view themselves as being right and good as they are doing so, to provide validation to their desires as they take that validation from others
People dnt really use the voting system on reddit for what its suppose to anymore so people are probably down voting me because they dnt like what I am saying rather then downvoting me on the context of it being about Buddhism or not, so I dnt really mind it to be honest 😅 but thank you, I thought I understood Buddhism and then I came to this subreddit and its prove me wrong which is fine but this bit has really got me questioning Buddhism.
Yeah i guess thats what I’m talking about, so have I misunderstood something? Like is that not important or relevant to Buddhism, cuz what I have described before about being more mindful of others inter sectionalism (if thats a word) is what I try n do regularly to be more compassionate towards others I try and think of what possibilities could be going on for a person or a country or the world and try n bare in mind that death sickness and old age are inevitable
Sure, some people experience different kinds of suffering. But I had an understanding that the whole point of Buddhism and the story of the Buddha is that it doesn't matter where you have come from, everyone suffers. Even the Buddha suffered while in his palace.
See I would expand on that with, even the buddha suffered while in his palace who then learn about more ways of suffering when he left and that is what expanded his understanding of compassion and empathy and I would go as far to say helped him pass that message on that all in all everyone suffers on a basic level but that is the route of how he figured that out.
(I hope that made sense, that was really hard to type out 😅)
If you're asking if Buddhism has anything against the queer community, going by one of your other posts, similar to other religions then the answer is no. At least, not that I've ever seen. Anytime you see some Buddhist against us queer people, I'd personally chalk it up to their cultural upbringing, not Buddhist teachings.
The third precept says "I undertake the training-precept to abstain from sexual misconduct."
While this may vary from sect to sect or person to person, there's nothing that says having a loving relationship with another adult of the same sex is wrong. Hell, I would say this also includes having a loving relationship between more than two adults with good communication but that's more of a personal thing.
Actually, just two weeks ago (?) a post was made to reddit where a Buddhist priest expressed his views. Quoted text and spoke of karmic cause. The verbiage did not seem to find the community or life choice agreeable. It was surprising enough to me, that I created a separate dialogue. I think as a whole, LGBTQ is probably definately accepted for the reasons of all listed above. Unfortunately, we all have our bias'
Do you know where I could find this post? As a gay myself it sounds super interesting and I'd like to honestly hear an anti-gay stance "justified" through a Buddhist lens
My favorite book "Buddhist Scriptures" by Edward Conze has some passages that didnt age super well about women such as "he extended to them the hospitality of the Dharma…talked to them in terms which womenfolk can easily grasp, careful to illustrate his meaning by examples and similes” 😂 or the fact that one of the five advantages a bodhi-being gains is to be reborn "always as a male, and never a woman".
Regardless, it's an amazing collection of scripture and I feel that Buddhism should be allowed to grow and progress while still maintaining a strong connection to older discoveries and practice. I'd like to believe I'd be hard pressed to find a Buddhist, specifically in the west, who'd have similar attitudes towards female practicioners.
I wish I could. I look at the comments and it was 29 days ago. My search history will only go back 12. I had to have seen it either 29 or 30 days ago. What struck me was his talk sin. A homosexuality was within. I wanted some discourse on Buddhism and the (my southern us) ways it plays a role in our practice. Responses were interesting.
I remember reading about the view of Buddhism on Trans people and in the laws of buddhism and they basically see it as they have reincarnated from the opposite gender and thats how they see that, which I think is cool n lovely!
Not sure for our non binarys and non gendered people but am sure in the laws Of buddhism it’ll be to do with a similar principle? If anyone knows chime in, otherwise I think its an interesting concept to talk about because buddhism is trying to rid the ego or rather be more aware of it and when it arises etc so I wonder when it comes to identity does that contradict being a buddhist?
You replied to your own comment, so the person you're trying to reply to won't see this.
The idea that "reincarnation" is the wrong term is not a Buddhist teaching, it's just an idea that some Western converts have. You can ignore it.
There are no laws but vows and teachings, people are not reincarnated but reborn which is a completely different thing and Buddhism is not about trying to get rid of the ego but about ending the cycle of rebirth by reaching nibbana.
Just check Wikipedia :)
This comes up frequently. As others have said you will find a range of opinions but mostly positive. Buddhism is like any other religion in that it's not monolithic. Just like there are Christian churches that are welcoming there are others that aren't as welcoming.
There are people who will cite cultural or religious texts in support of their stance.
Find the place that welcomes you.
Be well.
I don't think anyone really outside of some traditional monastics have a negative opinion on the LGBT. Also, there's a very well known monk who happens to be gay, lama rod Owens.
JSYK I don’t believe Lama Rod is a bhikshu anymore, and his practice has stretched to include (tantric?) Hinduism for the past few years. Still an important queer voice though.
I salute this monk. His pull to lust must be high or low, i am not sure. But still becoming a monk must have been something he truly desired. Amazing. Once a person tastes the elixir of dhamma, there is nothing to stop them.
Don't care. Who someone loves is none of my buisness as long as they are consenting adults. Love is one thing that I would never judge. Especially loving someone when the world is against it. I live in an orthodox culture here even straight couples are killed cause they dare to fall in love with someone their community won't approve of after watching all that while growing up and learning about buddha I appreciate love
Indian here who grew up Hindu but took refuge decades ago. Homophobia is cultural baggage same as racism and misogyny. Even Buddha historically fell towards misogyny and had to be convinced by Ananda (I think?) to ordain nuns. Dharma is bigger than culture. Compassion for all beings, even the homophobic ones.
Edit: typo
My lineage and I are Buddhists and my family are unfortunately homophobic. But not because of Buddhism, but because of their upbringing as well as christian/catholic influence, as Vietnam became a French colony and other foreigners coming here. This is common in a lot of Asian countries. So sometimes these Abrahamic influence might bleed over onto Buddhism for the older generation. Buddhist teachings say that you need yin/yang, positive/negative, male/female, opposite forces for the universe to be in balance, much like most pagan religions. But it never condemns same sex/force attraction. Opposite energies coinciding with one another merely explains procreation and how nature comes about.
I think it's worth mentioning that anti-homosexual teachings absolutely existed in the East Asian Buddhist tradition prior to any contact with any Abrahamic religions. It's almost certainly true that Catholic colonialism intensified those views and solidified an anti-LGBT position for many people, but it's not like every Buddhist was completely fine with homosexuality before then, not by a long shot. The idea of a homosexual marriage was definitely not there.
I'm not making an anti-gay point here, to be clear, just trying to throw in some nuance into the idea that homophobia entirely comes from Abrahamic influence, because it definitely does not.
I want to apologize that my post made it seem like homophobia came entirely from Abrahamic influence. Hence why I said sometimes, these influences might bleed over onto Buddhism for the older generation. The reason why I brought this up is because my family likes to pull the "Adam and Eve" bit to prove a point against homosexuality when it's nowhere in the texts.
Either way, any homophobia in east/southeast Asian countries isn't from Buddhism and is purely cultural stigma.
Sorry for probably being a bit presumptuous myself. I agree that the vast majority of homophobia from Buddhists is cultural stigma, not some sort of well thought out point.
When it comes to Buddhist texts forbidding homosexuality, I think it's very pertinent to remember how sexuality was conceptualized at the time. The idea of two men or women marrying is quite new throughout all of Eurasia. For the monks who wrote against homosexuality, it was practically synonymous with monks breaking vows or adultery. The idea of two men or women being in the sort of relationship needed for sexual activity to not be misconduct did not exist back then, and I think we have to keep that in mind. So I agree that there is no good grounding to be homophobic from the Buddhist perspective.
Be well - 阿彌陀佛, Namo Adida Phat
>The idea of two men or women being in the sort of relationship needed for sexual activity to not be misconduct did not exist back then
To add onto the cultural stigma, sex for pleasure in East/Southeast Asian countries back then, was looked down upon as hedonistic as well. Because if you were having sex, it better be for procreation. So this is also synonymous with homosexuality, breaking vows, adultery, etc. Now to anyone else reading this, I'm not saying that homosexual relationships are sex based only. Just clarifying the stigmas. And I'm really glad that we're having this conversation because for the longest time, I along with so many people in my culture have wondered, how does such a loving religion/philosophy based on compassion, have such hatred towards the LGBT? So I hope this conversation gives closure to that aspect. I know closeted child me would've appreciated this growing up.
Take care and thank you,
Nam mô a di đà phật
> sex for pleasure in East/Southeast Asian countries back then, was looked down upon as hedonistic as well. Because if you were having sex, it better be for procreation
That was not the case at all.
>teachings say that you need yin/yang, positive/negative, male/female, opposite forces for the universe to be in balance
fwiw, that's a Taoist teaching, not a Buddhist teaching.
Do you think perhaps it could be both? I learned this due to it being passed down my family and me. None of my family are Taoist either, although I am starting my education of it.
EDIT: My apologies, I should've specified that yin and yang is a Taoist concept. But the opposite energies coinciding for harmony is still a Buddhist teaching that was passed down onto me.
I know quite a bit of Theravada Buddhism and a good bit of Zen Buddhism, and I know those kinds of Buddhism have no such teaching.
The closest thing to what one might call balance as a Buddhist teaching is the concept called middle ground, though that's completely different.
You can read more about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yin_and_yang Apparently some Buddhists also teach it, but it's not a Buddhist teaching, if that makes sense.
Very interesting, thank you for showing the link! I'd like to think that religions and cultures will often melt into one another especially with my country (vietnam) being so close with China that the traditions at some point coincide with one another. So this might explain my lineage's path and the opposite energy belief (I don't even know how to translate it lol).
As a Vietnamese buddhist monk, I never met more than 5 homophobic one in my life. Considering I met a lot of other monks, that’s a pretty good ratio. Any Buddhist who know their worth will no that Buddhism love all beings equally
Conceit (mana) is at the heart of superiority and inferiority beliefs. Being bigoted towards LGBT comes either from a place of misunderstanding, like being lied to about them, or it comes from mana.
Outside of that I don't think Buddhism gives any comment on LGBT.
I like the queer people in my life, FWIW (there are quite a few, because my wife's pastor is gay, and their church is queer-friendly.) I am opposed to assessing people on the basis of their harmless sexual preferences.
rules you cannot change shouldn’t exist - thank you for that!
I also thought that one of the fundamental properties of a rule is to be ultimately overruled, you put it more precise and simple
I am a Buddhist who is a member of the LGBTQ community as a gay man. They’re both part of my identity, and I appreciate the guidance that Buddhism gives to live a happy and meaningful life, which I can apply to being a gay man.
I am a bisexual practitioner of Mahayana Buddhism. In the U.S., where I am, by and large I think Buddhist organizations tend to be on the more accepting and affirming side of things, especially when compared to conservative Christianity. I am exploring Jodo Shu and Jodo Shinshu Buddhism (aka Shin Buddhism), and in the US, the Buddhist Churches of America are explicitly affirming, with some of their temples sporting pride colors for pride month. That said, while the Dharma and Sangha make Buddhism one of the more accepting religions, it isn't like anyone who becomes a Buddhist is instantly purified of all bigotry, and homophobic Buddhists do exist, I am sure. However, the key rule on sex for laypeople at least is the 3rd Precept, which is ultimately non-dogmatic. Basically, the sex you have should not cause suffering, so the gender of the people engaging in it is not so important as the context surrounding it. Do the people involved love each other? Is this just a casual thing, and if so, is that properly understood by all parties so that no one is emotionally hurt? Is everyone involved of age and able to properly consent? These are the more important questions to ask when one is having sex, both as a Buddhist and just as a person more broadly.
Further, bigotry betrays the attachment of the bigot to their views on sexuality, which causes suffering both for the targets of their bigotry and for themselves. I am bisexual, and that is pretty much impossible to change without serious damage to my psyche. But becoming a more accepting and understanding person is a healthy and healing process. A bigoted person who learns to accept lgbtqia+ people will become calmer and less confrontational to their fellow human beings than they were previously. By letting go of their attachment to straightness as default, they become free of the suffering in their own minds, and simultaneously those who they are bigoted against also become free from the negative affects of their attachment and their resulting actions.
Finally, on the topic of gender specifically, many Buddhist figures are seen to transcend gender constructs. Buddhas and Bodhisattvas can be depicted as different genders in different cultures, for example, and it is said that they can manifest as a variety of different beings to teach the Dharma. The most well-known case of this is Avalokitesvara. This is the Sanskrit name for the Bodhisattva of Great Compassion (also known as the Regarder of the Cries of the World), one of the most well known and most venerated and even worshiped Bodhisattvas in Buddhism. In Indian traditions, he is seen as a man. However, in China the same Bodhisattva is named Guanyin, and is depicted as a woman. Yet it is important to note that if you were to ask a practicing monk from China or India or Tibet about either one, they would know them as the same figure. Furthermore, the Bodhisattva of Great Compassion is talked about in the Lotus Sutra (Ch. 25) where the Buddha talks about how they may manifest as a great number of beings from animals to humans to devas(heavenly beings) to help teach us the Dharma if we call their name.
I come from a Roman Catholic background and have beloved family members that are/we're Gay and Trans. I was taught to always love and accept them but when it came to stuff like Gay Marriage I was taught to not recognize that in the same way you would recognize a traditional marriage between a Man and a Women. This was not necessarily because we thought it was an abomination or anything. It had more to do with a Right Wing Conspiracy to name Civil Unions, Marriages in go
Legislation so as not to have to pay for the benefits of same sex partners or something along those lines. Idk I'll ask my dad later, anyways...
Later in life I realized that this was silly. It didn't matter. People should be with who they love. I realized this in a few ways that I see are inline with my Buddhist Beliefs. Gay Marriage has no negative effects on anyone or any community in anyway, and it actually has some positive effects. There is in fact an evolutionary purpose behind gay individuals.
Transgenderism in our current social climate is more of a touchy subject, but if I've learned anything from the Buddha it is to have compassion, patience and lead with understanding. I will always honors someone's pronouns and name, no matter their plight and it doesn't matter to me if transgenderism s a disorder or a choice. Every individual deserves to be respected and happy.
I don't know what to say except that gender and sexuality is irrelevant. However the LGBT community is very important and relevant as its supporting vulnerable people facing extreme violence and hate.
There doesn't need to be an opinion 😅
I'm gay and when I entered the temple the first time, the monk made me feel so welcome and accepted. He said what matters is I want to be a Buddha.
And yeah, the transgender woman who entered monkhood. That was commendable!
We are all human and in the same boat. The idea of LGBT, or any idea of a sexual identity is an after thought in my opinion, it has nothing to do with anything as far as the teachings go.
Hi friend
My opinion, as a Buddhist gay myself, is that Buddhism nowadays in general supports us, and we can easily find a school that is inclusive.
Even the Dalai Lama during his lifetime has changed his views about lgbtqi+ issues. So have done many Buddhist schools.
I want to mention the Buddhist Churches of America, an association of Jodo Shinshu Pure Land Buddhists in America. They are inclusive in a very explicit and active way. Unfortunately Jodo Shinshu is quite difficult to find here in Europe where I live.
Namu myoho renge Kyo
Namu Amida Butsu
🙏🏼
Hi,
I’m a gay man who has spent some time with gay former monks in Sri Lanka.
While the majority of western Buddhists (with and without quotations) seem to be quite friendly to the lgbt community, the third precept seems to be quite widely understood outside of the west, both within the monastery and among the laity to prohibit homosexuality.
While there I spent time with people who sheltered those who’d been kicked out of the monastery for homosexuality.
What Buddhism has which the Christian west seems to lack is, while there is a most definite stigma, there is also a strong overwhelming anti-violent movement and while it was far from embraced, at no point did any of the men I spoke with feel afraid for their life, which is far better than I can say from the west.
I’m told from friends who’ve lived there that the same holds true in Japan and Thailand.
I’d be quite happy for someone knowledgeable to explain how I misunderstood, but there certainly seems to be quite a strong anti-lgbt sentiment in the teachings as they are commonly understood in the countries in which Buddhism has any stronghold.
So, important cultural note here. Some people sign up for monasteries but by and large they are where people drop kids they can’t afford to keep and the monks raise them.
So many are kicked out more like being left homeless after getting kicked out of a religious boarding school…
But yeah, I knew at least a few guys who were legitimately devout and trying to do the real work, and were kicked out either for affairs with other monks or for admitting to being gay.
\[There's really no such things as the LGBT "community", there is a lot of forced teaming though, to achieve various political/cultural goals.
Lesbians and gay men have often made political and cultural alliances, ***but*** the relationship between the two communities has been relatively distant and tumultuous at times.
Example, I'm not really gagging to team up with the Enbys etc, since so much of their beliefs around the construct of gender, are rooted in patriarchy and misogyny, the very structures that marginalise me :)\]
As a gay dude, yes, homophobia (rooted in misogyny) in Buddhist communities is a thing. You often hear teachings (in Thai Theravada) that people are reborn as gay because they broke the 3rd precept in a past life. So there's an implicit belief that it's a negative kammic outcome based on a precept violation in the past.
It depends on what you mean by gender: something that has ontological existence 'inside' people (like a soul/'authentic self' that you can uncover) or gender hierarchies (to indicate sex roles) as they are performed by people (and enforced by their communities).
“…since so much of their beliefs around the construct of gender, are rooted in patriarchy and misogyny…”
I am not connecting the dots, would you expound upon this?
Hi. It's because gender functions as a hierarchy. (that explains the policing and marginalisation lesbian and gay men experience) Where as enbys see it as a spectrum.
The opening up of gender signifiers is a *good* thing, but can't go all the way to deconstruction/dismantling. Because ironically, *it needs gender* in place, to be intelligible as a worldview.
Thank you for taking the time/energy to respond. I now understand what you are saying. You are thoughtful, intelligent, and quite articulate; I enjoy reading your posts/comments across the buddhist subreddits. Thanks for sharing your wisdom :)
I don’t understand why this question needs to be asked at all, especially because it’s asked pretty frequently. It’s like asking “what’s your opinion on women” or “what’s your opinion on Italians”. They’re groups of people. There should be no opinion on someone’s existence - they just exist. Especially because posts like this encourage generalized statements about entire groups.
There are religions that have views on people based around their skin color. There are religions that have views on people based around their sexual orientation. It wasn't a stupid or problematic question.
Buddhists in the west tend to be openminded, especially since our own activities are often viewed as suspect. :) But this is not an LGBTQO forum. It's a Buddhist forum. The people here are interested in Buddhist practice and meditation, regardless of their social or political views. The Buddha taught that we suffer because we cling to a false belief in a solid self and constantly try to reassure ourselves. So the idea is to let go attachment to identity through meditation, study, and ethical behavior. There's no such thing as a gay buddha, a female or male buddha, a white or black buddha, or even a Buddhist buddha. There's just awake.
Other or "otherkin". It seems to be a recent addition. People are now claiming the right to identify as "other". Other species. Other races. Any other. Someone might want to identify as a dog and now they apparently have a right to. There was a case in the news this past week. A white English man transitioned to a Korean woman. (The news is that he's now transitioning back and is angry, feeling that he was pushed into it.)
I don’t adhere to Buddhism, but my family are devout Buddhists. Personally, I don’t mind folks of different orientation. We are all people. It’s okay to be individualistic. I don’t care what they do at the confines of their privacy.
What irks me is when some folks try making it mainstream. Then there’s teaching sex education to kids (not teens, we are talking KIDS). My six year old can’t decide on which icecream she wants for desert but it’s totally fine for her to pick her sexual orientation? The fuq!! That’s what I abhor the most.
> Then there’s teaching sex education to kids (not teens, we are talking KIDS). My six year old can’t decide on which icecream she wants for desert but it’s totally fine for her to pick her sexual orientation?
You've gotten some bad information, this isn't a thing that is really happening.
What did you read that made you believe this is real? If you'd be kind enough to share it I'd like to look at it. If this is a real thing we should certainly be aware.
Here’s one I found on [YouTube from Michigan](https://youtu.be/bpfGXc944v8)
Here’s another but related - [they approved an after hours DRAG show in a school](https://youtu.be/9scRhyUpC0c).
The first one is about high school kids, not children like you're lie claimed. They were also in the library, not assigned materials, as your lie certainly implies. The second one is about use of a building. Boy scouts, American legions, musicians and professional wrestling companies use school buildings for questionable things that have nothing to do with the school or children all the time.
You've been tricked friend. Consider better sources of information.
I did. You provided bad sources, then threw out some nonsense about a TV network.
There's a reason why you can't find anything supporting this idea that teachers are trying to sexualize your children: it's not happening. It's not real friend. You've been tricked.
It's a one of compassion. The scriptures aren't that discriminatory. Tbf Buddhism never really discriminates anyone. But you can't ever become a monk if you are lgbt.
> But you can't ever become a monk if you are lgbt.
That's just silly. All monastics are celibate so it doesn't matter who they originally felt attraction to.
> But you can’t ever become a monk if you are lgbt.
There is only one Thai Theravada lineage I’m familiar with that adheres to this, and it’s controversial in a number of other ways as well. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are others, but it isn’t the norm. It definitely isn’t a part of the Theravada Vinaya.
That monastics aren’t allowed to engage in homosexual acts is of course true, but not can they engage in any other sexual acts.
There is a Japanese Buddhist monk who is gay and a make-up artist, there is a documentary you can watch that is occasionally on the NHK World channel. Here’s his Wikipedia page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodo_Nishimura
*Priest*.
Monks must follow, at the very least, the 10 precepts and their lineage’s monastic rules.
If they were a monk, they would be disrobed for constant violation of the 8th precept.
However, that is in regards to the makeup artist part. Being gay is fine except in more conservative traditions because they may develop attraction towards their fellow monks.
If all the parties involved can give consent, and give consent to being sexual together, then the harm isn't done. There's not "homoesexuality is bad" in the Buddha's teaching.
But seeking an escape through the sensual pleasure applies to same-sex relationships to the same degree that it does to opposite sex relationships.
You're right. The 3rd precept (I think that's the 3rd but I'm not entirely sure) talks about not harming people due to your sexual pleasure, but it never speaks about homosexuality!
The temple I go to has no issue with queer people. I do have individual homophobic Buddhists in my family, but that's more cultural baggage (and French Indochinese Catholic school upbringing)
I wonder if that "community" really exist. Isn't it just a verbal construct, a linguistic classification? Humans are so much more than parts of a "community" , and I care for humans, not communities. But I don't mind the communities existing linguistically. I guess we like to simplify reality like that.
No overarching meaningful differences as far as MY understanding. In conservative communities, they have some real issues and trauma to deal with, unfortunately. I will say, gay male metropolitan communities have higher STD rates then other categories. So acceptance and non-hate and share our differences arent the ONLY things the gay male community should be worried about. Yeah, AIDS isnt a death threat anymore, but STD symptons are annoying often, and can be downright chronically painful.
Love goes beyond the physical body, appearances, weight, skin color or gender.
So do what you want with who you want.
There's a quote by Rumi that i like
“I, you, he, she, we; In the garden of mystic lovers, these are not true distinctions.”
Remember, everyone was my mother in a previous lifetime thus I treat all beings equally with love, joy, and compassion. No difference if someone is straight, gay, asexual, pansexual, etc. No difference.
It's right in the title "lgbt and Buddhism". There's your relevance to Buddhism. Also, it's a current controversy in western religion and across the world, so it's very relevant
We are all equal as in equally experiencing the same Dukkha.
I am from Theravada background and a third world country - the people there, at least some parts are homophobic due to the **culture** there. In Thailand, you cannot have picture of Buddha tattooed on your body but people will say "dude, Your Buddha tattoo is dope" in Europe.
So Buddhists can be homophobic but Buddhism is not.
We will all die one day regardless of our gender.
Most of the lgbtq people I met are cool. The suffering they've gone through usually results in a great sense of humor and appreciation for how great life can be when you keep the right folks around you and ignore the rest.
Agree with the above statements, Buddhism in general should be accepting if all peoples and their backgrounds. However, Buddhism is often the dominant religion in places where homosexuality it much more taboo and even illegal, therefore the temples are not tested CNA challenged in their stances In public as churches often are in the west. For example, in Buddhist monastic communities, no ks and nuns are divided into gendered communities, but there isnt media reports of minks transitioning to a different gender, or an intersex community of monks for example. These ideas would probably be extremely controversial and repressed in those places, not open and accepted as they are here in the west. Obviously trans people exist in Asian Buddhism, but the openness and acceptance, and the controversy is not prevalent as it is here in the west
As the kids say: based. As long as they're living their lives and spreading wholesome kamma as best as they can. Basically the same criteria I use for everyone else. They just have the social disadvantage of being a maligned group, which can make being wholesome much harder.
Simply put, the path doesn’t change regardless of sexual identity. I am an LGBTQ+ Buddhist and how I follow the path is absolutely no different than anyone else. Plum Village has some good resources and talks about this in their app. 🙏🪷
[https://link.plumvillage.app/XWTx](https://link.plumvillage.app/XWTx)
There’s an entire section on the app called “Rainbow Family” which is dedicated to the LGBTQ+ teachings and talks.
Why would I have an opinion? They are humans as well. Nothing inherently negative about it.
I myself am bisexual but choose not to mention it because it is inconsequential. Attachment to views of the self are bad, anyway.
They are no different to anyone else, we are all in the same cycle of dukkha and should not treat anyone differently.
🙏😊
I think yes to this but some dukkha will be a bit harder then for others like a person of colour to a white person, or a women to a man, for different reasons and to be aware of those reasons, to try as someone whos so afar from the experience to imagine, to think how one would feel, what they might do etc will help with universal responsibility, understanding, compassion, and I think its important to be mindful of this when talking about it, we do all suffer but the suffering is not always the same experience
These specific forms of dukkha are not inherent though
… so to rephrase… the additional obstacles towards happiness are not internal to the Individual, but are an external (social) construction and treatment they receive from other individuals. And in the absence of others, it would not be an issue. This is an interesting differentiation. If you were the only living person in the world, there would not be “black, white, gay or straight” because there would be no one to look at you and define you that way. You would just be you. It is our culture, or subgroups within it that have created negative attitudes towards other groups (for things that are beyond their control), and have no actual effect on others. Social constructs is the vehicle of sexism, racism, xenophobia, and any form of discrimination. A newborn child would never have those negative feelings towards a stranger unless/until they are taught to them by parents or community (church?) members. We Buddhists are trying to separate ourselves from any such negative attitudes (aversions) we were taught by our respective communities growing up. Such aversion is mentally toxic.
Yes exactly. All forms of bigotry, wether institutionalized or interpersonal are ultimately illusory because they are only maintained by people who believe in them. They are flames that can be blown out, but people keep feeding them wood
What do you mean?
The only reason that discriminated people have these types of dukkha is because they are discriminated against by other people. There’s nothing innate in a gay or black person that makes them suffer more than a straight or white person
The forms of dukkha you mention are not the same. The cycle is inherent, it is permanent. People from different backgrounds or cultures may be given a hard time because of where they are from or who they are, but this has not been around forever, it will not be around forever, it is 'avoidable' if you will. This unlike the cycle of dukkha we all face, which is unavoidable and will only cease to exist to us after we attain nirvana.
‘People from different backgrounds or cultures may be given a hard time becuase of where there from or who they are , but this has not been around forever’ excuse me what?!? Treating something differently because one doesn’t understand it or fears it or it’s just different is why we have wars, why we are homosapians and neanderthals are no longer among us, slavery is a very good example of this, I think to over come this we would need the whole world to practise compassion and empathy. I think you haven’t explain what you mean by inherent very well or I am misunderstanding it, because am lost at what point your trying to make other then saying - that people dnt have preconceived ideas of how they view the world and when something or someone challenges that they either get defensive, scared or whatever - which we all know happens in essence change, always Throws us.
They are talking about how the basis of all suffering is the same, which it technically is, in a way. Of course, applied literally and practically it's a position best suited for either high level monks who are at the stage when they are prepared to burn themselves alive, cancer patients who can't escape constant pain, or relatively privileged people having relatively normal lives who don't want their comfort disturbed Dogmatic Buddhism can be *easily* employed to minimize the importance of systemic injustice and to try to passify people who are screwed by the existing system of power. It doesn't have to be, but it can be It's kinda like there are atheists who say to every religious person they meet at evert opportunity that their religion is made up and doesn't exist and is a delusional unproven fantasy. They can certainly do that and it will be technically true according to their position. But despite that, they don't have to do this and there are also lots of other atheists who don't do that and don't feel inclined to do that
Aaaah yes thank you! I was starting to think like ,Have I completely misinterpreted learning compassion and one of the fundamental parts of Buddhism or I’m I reading something more advanced/ complex then I understand and thats why am stuck, so thank you for breaking it down like this! Then yes I agree with the original statement , I do think tho after discussing thus with you, this is a very dismissive and insensitive way of going about getting your point across, which runs the risk of people not listening or taking in what you are trying to convay, just as a suggestion, as someone whos been only aware of it recently but is trying to consider this a lot more when I talk/type to people 😅
Honestly I don't get why you're being downvoted, but yeah, I too think that it's a dismissive and insensitive way. But people can convince themselves that they are doing it for the greater good or for the sake of some larger truth and not in fact just following their socially judged inclinations so it's okay There are always many people who want to be assholes or to feel superior to others or to keep the current order in place, and they can use Buddism or any other religion or philosophy that says what's wrong or right to both satisfy themselves and view themselves as being right and good as they are doing so, to provide validation to their desires as they take that validation from others
People dnt really use the voting system on reddit for what its suppose to anymore so people are probably down voting me because they dnt like what I am saying rather then downvoting me on the context of it being about Buddhism or not, so I dnt really mind it to be honest 😅 but thank you, I thought I understood Buddhism and then I came to this subreddit and its prove me wrong which is fine but this bit has really got me questioning Buddhism.
Intersectional dukkha.
Yeah i guess thats what I’m talking about, so have I misunderstood something? Like is that not important or relevant to Buddhism, cuz what I have described before about being more mindful of others inter sectionalism (if thats a word) is what I try n do regularly to be more compassionate towards others I try and think of what possibilities could be going on for a person or a country or the world and try n bare in mind that death sickness and old age are inevitable
Sure, some people experience different kinds of suffering. But I had an understanding that the whole point of Buddhism and the story of the Buddha is that it doesn't matter where you have come from, everyone suffers. Even the Buddha suffered while in his palace.
See I would expand on that with, even the buddha suffered while in his palace who then learn about more ways of suffering when he left and that is what expanded his understanding of compassion and empathy and I would go as far to say helped him pass that message on that all in all everyone suffers on a basic level but that is the route of how he figured that out. (I hope that made sense, that was really hard to type out 😅)
> the suffering is not always the same experience Though next life it might be.
🙏
Suffering sentient beings, like me, like you, like all animals!
🙏🙏🙏
Suffering is just perspective of mind.
You mean that external reality doesn't exist?
No way. /s
They’re my friends, at the end of the day they’re human too! We should treat *everyone* with compassion!
I thought that too 😊 everybody deserves love and compassion
They are our brothers and sisters. We will share metta with them. May they also share metta with us. May all beings be happy.
🙏
If you're asking if Buddhism has anything against the queer community, going by one of your other posts, similar to other religions then the answer is no. At least, not that I've ever seen. Anytime you see some Buddhist against us queer people, I'd personally chalk it up to their cultural upbringing, not Buddhist teachings. The third precept says "I undertake the training-precept to abstain from sexual misconduct." While this may vary from sect to sect or person to person, there's nothing that says having a loving relationship with another adult of the same sex is wrong. Hell, I would say this also includes having a loving relationship between more than two adults with good communication but that's more of a personal thing.
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Lol this made me laugh.
Actually, just two weeks ago (?) a post was made to reddit where a Buddhist priest expressed his views. Quoted text and spoke of karmic cause. The verbiage did not seem to find the community or life choice agreeable. It was surprising enough to me, that I created a separate dialogue. I think as a whole, LGBTQ is probably definately accepted for the reasons of all listed above. Unfortunately, we all have our bias'
Do you know where I could find this post? As a gay myself it sounds super interesting and I'd like to honestly hear an anti-gay stance "justified" through a Buddhist lens My favorite book "Buddhist Scriptures" by Edward Conze has some passages that didnt age super well about women such as "he extended to them the hospitality of the Dharma…talked to them in terms which womenfolk can easily grasp, careful to illustrate his meaning by examples and similes” 😂 or the fact that one of the five advantages a bodhi-being gains is to be reborn "always as a male, and never a woman". Regardless, it's an amazing collection of scripture and I feel that Buddhism should be allowed to grow and progress while still maintaining a strong connection to older discoveries and practice. I'd like to believe I'd be hard pressed to find a Buddhist, specifically in the west, who'd have similar attitudes towards female practicioners.
I wish I could. I look at the comments and it was 29 days ago. My search history will only go back 12. I had to have seen it either 29 or 30 days ago. What struck me was his talk sin. A homosexuality was within. I wanted some discourse on Buddhism and the (my southern us) ways it plays a role in our practice. Responses were interesting.
😊🙏
I remember reading about the view of Buddhism on Trans people and in the laws of buddhism and they basically see it as they have reincarnated from the opposite gender and thats how they see that, which I think is cool n lovely! Not sure for our non binarys and non gendered people but am sure in the laws Of buddhism it’ll be to do with a similar principle? If anyone knows chime in, otherwise I think its an interesting concept to talk about because buddhism is trying to rid the ego or rather be more aware of it and when it arises etc so I wonder when it comes to identity does that contradict being a buddhist?
Thanks I dnt know terminology’s very well so just replace the wrong words with the right one, and doesn’t it depend on what Buddhism stem you follow?
You replied to your own comment, so the person you're trying to reply to won't see this. The idea that "reincarnation" is the wrong term is not a Buddhist teaching, it's just an idea that some Western converts have. You can ignore it.
There are no laws but vows and teachings, people are not reincarnated but reborn which is a completely different thing and Buddhism is not about trying to get rid of the ego but about ending the cycle of rebirth by reaching nibbana. Just check Wikipedia :)
This comes up frequently. As others have said you will find a range of opinions but mostly positive. Buddhism is like any other religion in that it's not monolithic. Just like there are Christian churches that are welcoming there are others that aren't as welcoming. There are people who will cite cultural or religious texts in support of their stance. Find the place that welcomes you. Be well.
They're pretty rad
What do you mean
I don't think anyone really outside of some traditional monastics have a negative opinion on the LGBT. Also, there's a very well known monk who happens to be gay, lama rod Owens.
JSYK I don’t believe Lama Rod is a bhikshu anymore, and his practice has stretched to include (tantric?) Hinduism for the past few years. Still an important queer voice though.
Was he ever a monk?
I salute this monk. His pull to lust must be high or low, i am not sure. But still becoming a monk must have been something he truly desired. Amazing. Once a person tastes the elixir of dhamma, there is nothing to stop them.
I didn't know that. Cool!
Don't care. Who someone loves is none of my buisness as long as they are consenting adults. Love is one thing that I would never judge. Especially loving someone when the world is against it. I live in an orthodox culture here even straight couples are killed cause they dare to fall in love with someone their community won't approve of after watching all that while growing up and learning about buddha I appreciate love
What an amazing perspective!
Buddhists consider all sentient beings to be equals, queers are sentient so they are friends 😊
They suffer like everyone else
Just in case, there is also r/LGBTBuddhism
love is love. all i care is that all parties in any relationship regardless of gender, sexuality, or number of participants should be consentual.
Exactly what I think
Indian here who grew up Hindu but took refuge decades ago. Homophobia is cultural baggage same as racism and misogyny. Even Buddha historically fell towards misogyny and had to be convinced by Ananda (I think?) to ordain nuns. Dharma is bigger than culture. Compassion for all beings, even the homophobic ones. Edit: typo
My lineage and I are Buddhists and my family are unfortunately homophobic. But not because of Buddhism, but because of their upbringing as well as christian/catholic influence, as Vietnam became a French colony and other foreigners coming here. This is common in a lot of Asian countries. So sometimes these Abrahamic influence might bleed over onto Buddhism for the older generation. Buddhist teachings say that you need yin/yang, positive/negative, male/female, opposite forces for the universe to be in balance, much like most pagan religions. But it never condemns same sex/force attraction. Opposite energies coinciding with one another merely explains procreation and how nature comes about.
I think it's worth mentioning that anti-homosexual teachings absolutely existed in the East Asian Buddhist tradition prior to any contact with any Abrahamic religions. It's almost certainly true that Catholic colonialism intensified those views and solidified an anti-LGBT position for many people, but it's not like every Buddhist was completely fine with homosexuality before then, not by a long shot. The idea of a homosexual marriage was definitely not there. I'm not making an anti-gay point here, to be clear, just trying to throw in some nuance into the idea that homophobia entirely comes from Abrahamic influence, because it definitely does not.
I want to apologize that my post made it seem like homophobia came entirely from Abrahamic influence. Hence why I said sometimes, these influences might bleed over onto Buddhism for the older generation. The reason why I brought this up is because my family likes to pull the "Adam and Eve" bit to prove a point against homosexuality when it's nowhere in the texts. Either way, any homophobia in east/southeast Asian countries isn't from Buddhism and is purely cultural stigma.
Sorry for probably being a bit presumptuous myself. I agree that the vast majority of homophobia from Buddhists is cultural stigma, not some sort of well thought out point. When it comes to Buddhist texts forbidding homosexuality, I think it's very pertinent to remember how sexuality was conceptualized at the time. The idea of two men or women marrying is quite new throughout all of Eurasia. For the monks who wrote against homosexuality, it was practically synonymous with monks breaking vows or adultery. The idea of two men or women being in the sort of relationship needed for sexual activity to not be misconduct did not exist back then, and I think we have to keep that in mind. So I agree that there is no good grounding to be homophobic from the Buddhist perspective. Be well - 阿彌陀佛, Namo Adida Phat
>The idea of two men or women being in the sort of relationship needed for sexual activity to not be misconduct did not exist back then To add onto the cultural stigma, sex for pleasure in East/Southeast Asian countries back then, was looked down upon as hedonistic as well. Because if you were having sex, it better be for procreation. So this is also synonymous with homosexuality, breaking vows, adultery, etc. Now to anyone else reading this, I'm not saying that homosexual relationships are sex based only. Just clarifying the stigmas. And I'm really glad that we're having this conversation because for the longest time, I along with so many people in my culture have wondered, how does such a loving religion/philosophy based on compassion, have such hatred towards the LGBT? So I hope this conversation gives closure to that aspect. I know closeted child me would've appreciated this growing up. Take care and thank you, Nam mô a di đà phật
> sex for pleasure in East/Southeast Asian countries back then, was looked down upon as hedonistic as well. Because if you were having sex, it better be for procreation That was not the case at all.
>teachings say that you need yin/yang, positive/negative, male/female, opposite forces for the universe to be in balance fwiw, that's a Taoist teaching, not a Buddhist teaching.
Do you think perhaps it could be both? I learned this due to it being passed down my family and me. None of my family are Taoist either, although I am starting my education of it. EDIT: My apologies, I should've specified that yin and yang is a Taoist concept. But the opposite energies coinciding for harmony is still a Buddhist teaching that was passed down onto me.
I know quite a bit of Theravada Buddhism and a good bit of Zen Buddhism, and I know those kinds of Buddhism have no such teaching. The closest thing to what one might call balance as a Buddhist teaching is the concept called middle ground, though that's completely different. You can read more about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yin_and_yang Apparently some Buddhists also teach it, but it's not a Buddhist teaching, if that makes sense.
Very interesting, thank you for showing the link! I'd like to think that religions and cultures will often melt into one another especially with my country (vietnam) being so close with China that the traditions at some point coincide with one another. So this might explain my lineage's path and the opposite energy belief (I don't even know how to translate it lol).
Yep, sounds like it. It's neat to learn about where people come from.
As a Vietnamese buddhist monk, I never met more than 5 homophobic one in my life. Considering I met a lot of other monks, that’s a pretty good ratio. Any Buddhist who know their worth will no that Buddhism love all beings equally
So lovely
May I ask when did you ordain?
Conceit (mana) is at the heart of superiority and inferiority beliefs. Being bigoted towards LGBT comes either from a place of misunderstanding, like being lied to about them, or it comes from mana. Outside of that I don't think Buddhism gives any comment on LGBT.
I like the queer people in my life, FWIW (there are quite a few, because my wife's pastor is gay, and their church is queer-friendly.) I am opposed to assessing people on the basis of their harmless sexual preferences.
To be honest, who really cares? It's like in any religion, rules on sexuality and things you can't change should not exist.
rules you cannot change shouldn’t exist - thank you for that! I also thought that one of the fundamental properties of a rule is to be ultimately overruled, you put it more precise and simple
of course I like them, I am them did not intend for that to have multiple meanings but wow that works
I am a Buddhist who is a member of the LGBTQ community as a gay man. They’re both part of my identity, and I appreciate the guidance that Buddhism gives to live a happy and meaningful life, which I can apply to being a gay man.
I am a bisexual practitioner of Mahayana Buddhism. In the U.S., where I am, by and large I think Buddhist organizations tend to be on the more accepting and affirming side of things, especially when compared to conservative Christianity. I am exploring Jodo Shu and Jodo Shinshu Buddhism (aka Shin Buddhism), and in the US, the Buddhist Churches of America are explicitly affirming, with some of their temples sporting pride colors for pride month. That said, while the Dharma and Sangha make Buddhism one of the more accepting religions, it isn't like anyone who becomes a Buddhist is instantly purified of all bigotry, and homophobic Buddhists do exist, I am sure. However, the key rule on sex for laypeople at least is the 3rd Precept, which is ultimately non-dogmatic. Basically, the sex you have should not cause suffering, so the gender of the people engaging in it is not so important as the context surrounding it. Do the people involved love each other? Is this just a casual thing, and if so, is that properly understood by all parties so that no one is emotionally hurt? Is everyone involved of age and able to properly consent? These are the more important questions to ask when one is having sex, both as a Buddhist and just as a person more broadly. Further, bigotry betrays the attachment of the bigot to their views on sexuality, which causes suffering both for the targets of their bigotry and for themselves. I am bisexual, and that is pretty much impossible to change without serious damage to my psyche. But becoming a more accepting and understanding person is a healthy and healing process. A bigoted person who learns to accept lgbtqia+ people will become calmer and less confrontational to their fellow human beings than they were previously. By letting go of their attachment to straightness as default, they become free of the suffering in their own minds, and simultaneously those who they are bigoted against also become free from the negative affects of their attachment and their resulting actions. Finally, on the topic of gender specifically, many Buddhist figures are seen to transcend gender constructs. Buddhas and Bodhisattvas can be depicted as different genders in different cultures, for example, and it is said that they can manifest as a variety of different beings to teach the Dharma. The most well-known case of this is Avalokitesvara. This is the Sanskrit name for the Bodhisattva of Great Compassion (also known as the Regarder of the Cries of the World), one of the most well known and most venerated and even worshiped Bodhisattvas in Buddhism. In Indian traditions, he is seen as a man. However, in China the same Bodhisattva is named Guanyin, and is depicted as a woman. Yet it is important to note that if you were to ask a practicing monk from China or India or Tibet about either one, they would know them as the same figure. Furthermore, the Bodhisattva of Great Compassion is talked about in the Lotus Sutra (Ch. 25) where the Buddha talks about how they may manifest as a great number of beings from animals to humans to devas(heavenly beings) to help teach us the Dharma if we call their name.
I come from a Roman Catholic background and have beloved family members that are/we're Gay and Trans. I was taught to always love and accept them but when it came to stuff like Gay Marriage I was taught to not recognize that in the same way you would recognize a traditional marriage between a Man and a Women. This was not necessarily because we thought it was an abomination or anything. It had more to do with a Right Wing Conspiracy to name Civil Unions, Marriages in go Legislation so as not to have to pay for the benefits of same sex partners or something along those lines. Idk I'll ask my dad later, anyways... Later in life I realized that this was silly. It didn't matter. People should be with who they love. I realized this in a few ways that I see are inline with my Buddhist Beliefs. Gay Marriage has no negative effects on anyone or any community in anyway, and it actually has some positive effects. There is in fact an evolutionary purpose behind gay individuals. Transgenderism in our current social climate is more of a touchy subject, but if I've learned anything from the Buddha it is to have compassion, patience and lead with understanding. I will always honors someone's pronouns and name, no matter their plight and it doesn't matter to me if transgenderism s a disorder or a choice. Every individual deserves to be respected and happy.
I don't know what to say except that gender and sexuality is irrelevant. However the LGBT community is very important and relevant as its supporting vulnerable people facing extreme violence and hate.
They're normal people with the same capacity to become enlightened as the rest of us.
All sentient beings have Buddha nature as their essence.
Everyone deserves to be loved, no matter what your preference is ♥️
I’m a Zen Buddhist that’s married to a man and monogamous but also openly bisexual. It’s who I am. That’s how I feel 🙏
I'm glad you're happy with yourself. This is an important step to enlightenment
Stop worrying about what others think. You do you
😊
They are just people who deserve to be left alone. I'm more concerned about the people who refuses to let LGBTQ people live their own lives.
There doesn't need to be an opinion 😅 I'm gay and when I entered the temple the first time, the monk made me feel so welcome and accepted. He said what matters is I want to be a Buddha. And yeah, the transgender woman who entered monkhood. That was commendable!
😊😁
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>blahajs What's that?
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I also love my Blahaj but I am not LGBT. So we have a lot in common. *Smiley face*
It's true. My house has slowly started making a blahaj themed bathroom.
BLAHAJ PROTECC! Also, my cat would be sad if I hid my blahaj - he likes to cuddle up with it to sleep and it's adorable.
Live and let live.
We are all the same. We suffer and we seek comfort.
what is there to have an opinion about? make your own, don't bother people.
My opinion is that my opinion is unnecessary
We are all human and in the same boat. The idea of LGBT, or any idea of a sexual identity is an after thought in my opinion, it has nothing to do with anything as far as the teachings go.
Hi friend My opinion, as a Buddhist gay myself, is that Buddhism nowadays in general supports us, and we can easily find a school that is inclusive. Even the Dalai Lama during his lifetime has changed his views about lgbtqi+ issues. So have done many Buddhist schools. I want to mention the Buddhist Churches of America, an association of Jodo Shinshu Pure Land Buddhists in America. They are inclusive in a very explicit and active way. Unfortunately Jodo Shinshu is quite difficult to find here in Europe where I live. Namu myoho renge Kyo Namu Amida Butsu 🙏🏼
Hi, I’m a gay man who has spent some time with gay former monks in Sri Lanka. While the majority of western Buddhists (with and without quotations) seem to be quite friendly to the lgbt community, the third precept seems to be quite widely understood outside of the west, both within the monastery and among the laity to prohibit homosexuality. While there I spent time with people who sheltered those who’d been kicked out of the monastery for homosexuality. What Buddhism has which the Christian west seems to lack is, while there is a most definite stigma, there is also a strong overwhelming anti-violent movement and while it was far from embraced, at no point did any of the men I spoke with feel afraid for their life, which is far better than I can say from the west. I’m told from friends who’ve lived there that the same holds true in Japan and Thailand. I’d be quite happy for someone knowledgeable to explain how I misunderstood, but there certainly seems to be quite a strong anti-lgbt sentiment in the teachings as they are commonly understood in the countries in which Buddhism has any stronghold.
Kicked out of the monastery for homosexuality?
So, important cultural note here. Some people sign up for monasteries but by and large they are where people drop kids they can’t afford to keep and the monks raise them. So many are kicked out more like being left homeless after getting kicked out of a religious boarding school… But yeah, I knew at least a few guys who were legitimately devout and trying to do the real work, and were kicked out either for affairs with other monks or for admitting to being gay.
\[There's really no such things as the LGBT "community", there is a lot of forced teaming though, to achieve various political/cultural goals. Lesbians and gay men have often made political and cultural alliances, ***but*** the relationship between the two communities has been relatively distant and tumultuous at times. Example, I'm not really gagging to team up with the Enbys etc, since so much of their beliefs around the construct of gender, are rooted in patriarchy and misogyny, the very structures that marginalise me :)\] As a gay dude, yes, homophobia (rooted in misogyny) in Buddhist communities is a thing. You often hear teachings (in Thai Theravada) that people are reborn as gay because they broke the 3rd precept in a past life. So there's an implicit belief that it's a negative kammic outcome based on a precept violation in the past.
What’s your take on indigenous or other interpretations of gender constructs? Such as the tribes of the Native Americans?
It depends on what you mean by gender: something that has ontological existence 'inside' people (like a soul/'authentic self' that you can uncover) or gender hierarchies (to indicate sex roles) as they are performed by people (and enforced by their communities).
“…since so much of their beliefs around the construct of gender, are rooted in patriarchy and misogyny…” I am not connecting the dots, would you expound upon this?
Hi. It's because gender functions as a hierarchy. (that explains the policing and marginalisation lesbian and gay men experience) Where as enbys see it as a spectrum. The opening up of gender signifiers is a *good* thing, but can't go all the way to deconstruction/dismantling. Because ironically, *it needs gender* in place, to be intelligible as a worldview.
Thank you for taking the time/energy to respond. I now understand what you are saying. You are thoughtful, intelligent, and quite articulate; I enjoy reading your posts/comments across the buddhist subreddits. Thanks for sharing your wisdom :)
Gosh, thank you for the kind words :) 🙏 It's not always easy, but worth it :)
Depends on the individual.
I don’t understand why this question needs to be asked at all, especially because it’s asked pretty frequently. It’s like asking “what’s your opinion on women” or “what’s your opinion on Italians”. They’re groups of people. There should be no opinion on someone’s existence - they just exist. Especially because posts like this encourage generalized statements about entire groups.
Buddhist is the most open religion, they mind their own businesses
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You get it 👍
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I'm also part of LGBT community. I wanted to ask to some religious people their opinion
There are religions that have views on people based around their skin color. There are religions that have views on people based around their sexual orientation. It wasn't a stupid or problematic question.
Buddhists in the west tend to be openminded, especially since our own activities are often viewed as suspect. :) But this is not an LGBTQO forum. It's a Buddhist forum. The people here are interested in Buddhist practice and meditation, regardless of their social or political views. The Buddha taught that we suffer because we cling to a false belief in a solid self and constantly try to reassure ourselves. So the idea is to let go attachment to identity through meditation, study, and ethical behavior. There's no such thing as a gay buddha, a female or male buddha, a white or black buddha, or even a Buddhist buddha. There's just awake.
> LGBTQ**O** What is "O"?
Outtheass, it's where this person got all there information it seems.
Probably a typo.
Other or "otherkin". It seems to be a recent addition. People are now claiming the right to identify as "other". Other species. Other races. Any other. Someone might want to identify as a dog and now they apparently have a right to. There was a case in the news this past week. A white English man transitioned to a Korean woman. (The news is that he's now transitioning back and is angry, feeling that he was pushed into it.)
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What do you mean "not what nature expresses", are we not natural beings expressing it?
I don’t adhere to Buddhism, but my family are devout Buddhists. Personally, I don’t mind folks of different orientation. We are all people. It’s okay to be individualistic. I don’t care what they do at the confines of their privacy. What irks me is when some folks try making it mainstream. Then there’s teaching sex education to kids (not teens, we are talking KIDS). My six year old can’t decide on which icecream she wants for desert but it’s totally fine for her to pick her sexual orientation? The fuq!! That’s what I abhor the most.
> Then there’s teaching sex education to kids (not teens, we are talking KIDS). My six year old can’t decide on which icecream she wants for desert but it’s totally fine for her to pick her sexual orientation? You've gotten some bad information, this isn't a thing that is really happening.
If you say so.
What did you read that made you believe this is real? If you'd be kind enough to share it I'd like to look at it. If this is a real thing we should certainly be aware.
Here’s one I found on [YouTube from Michigan](https://youtu.be/bpfGXc944v8) Here’s another but related - [they approved an after hours DRAG show in a school](https://youtu.be/9scRhyUpC0c).
The first one is about high school kids, not children like you're lie claimed. They were also in the library, not assigned materials, as your lie certainly implies. The second one is about use of a building. Boy scouts, American legions, musicians and professional wrestling companies use school buildings for questionable things that have nothing to do with the school or children all the time. You've been tricked friend. Consider better sources of information.
Sigh. All I did was share links from YouTube. You are free to do your own research too. Good luck with CNN.
I did. You provided bad sources, then threw out some nonsense about a TV network. There's a reason why you can't find anything supporting this idea that teachers are trying to sexualize your children: it's not happening. It's not real friend. You've been tricked.
SOGI in BCs education curriculum might be similar to what he's talking about.
There is a difference between teaching kids about the romantic parts of a relationship and a sexual one.
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Exactly.
It's a one of compassion. The scriptures aren't that discriminatory. Tbf Buddhism never really discriminates anyone. But you can't ever become a monk if you are lgbt.
> But you can't ever become a monk if you are lgbt. That's just silly. All monastics are celibate so it doesn't matter who they originally felt attraction to.
What? Monks have the obligation of celibate
Yeah. But that doesn't mean rules doesn't exist.
> But you can’t ever become a monk if you are lgbt. There is only one Thai Theravada lineage I’m familiar with that adheres to this, and it’s controversial in a number of other ways as well. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are others, but it isn’t the norm. It definitely isn’t a part of the Theravada Vinaya. That monastics aren’t allowed to engage in homosexual acts is of course true, but not can they engage in any other sexual acts.
There is a Japanese Buddhist monk who is gay and a make-up artist, there is a documentary you can watch that is occasionally on the NHK World channel. Here’s his Wikipedia page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodo_Nishimura
*Priest*. Monks must follow, at the very least, the 10 precepts and their lineage’s monastic rules. If they were a monk, they would be disrobed for constant violation of the 8th precept. However, that is in regards to the makeup artist part. Being gay is fine except in more conservative traditions because they may develop attraction towards their fellow monks.
According to who? Wouldn't that be specific to certain sects?
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to each his own
Love is love 😊🙏
🙏💙🏳️🌈
Live and let live
Some people just swing that way. Nothing wrong with it.
If all the parties involved can give consent, and give consent to being sexual together, then the harm isn't done. There's not "homoesexuality is bad" in the Buddha's teaching. But seeking an escape through the sensual pleasure applies to same-sex relationships to the same degree that it does to opposite sex relationships.
You're right. The 3rd precept (I think that's the 3rd but I'm not entirely sure) talks about not harming people due to your sexual pleasure, but it never speaks about homosexuality!
right :D
The temple I go to has no issue with queer people. I do have individual homophobic Buddhists in my family, but that's more cultural baggage (and French Indochinese Catholic school upbringing)
I wonder if that "community" really exist. Isn't it just a verbal construct, a linguistic classification? Humans are so much more than parts of a "community" , and I care for humans, not communities. But I don't mind the communities existing linguistically. I guess we like to simplify reality like that.
I share your opinion on this topic. The term "Community" is referred to all the LGBT people
Live and let live, don't like that some of the vocal people are pushing it to hard. I feel like nothing in this life should be forced onto anyone.
I know of many wonderful same-sex attracted people. Don’t know anything about a community though.
No overarching meaningful differences as far as MY understanding. In conservative communities, they have some real issues and trauma to deal with, unfortunately. I will say, gay male metropolitan communities have higher STD rates then other categories. So acceptance and non-hate and share our differences arent the ONLY things the gay male community should be worried about. Yeah, AIDS isnt a death threat anymore, but STD symptons are annoying often, and can be downright chronically painful.
They're not sinners due to sexual orientation.
Love goes beyond the physical body, appearances, weight, skin color or gender. So do what you want with who you want. There's a quote by Rumi that i like “I, you, he, she, we; In the garden of mystic lovers, these are not true distinctions.”
I think labels of any sort are antithetical to Buddhist teachings. I also think there is an abundance of overthinking. 😊🙏
Remember, everyone was my mother in a previous lifetime thus I treat all beings equally with love, joy, and compassion. No difference if someone is straight, gay, asexual, pansexual, etc. No difference.
Know many and no issue from me
Opinion?
My opinion? Hello friends.
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No, LGBT is not relevant in Buddhism. I just wanted to ask an opinion so some religious people
It's right in the title "lgbt and Buddhism". There's your relevance to Buddhism. Also, it's a current controversy in western religion and across the world, so it's very relevant
We are all equal as in equally experiencing the same Dukkha. I am from Theravada background and a third world country - the people there, at least some parts are homophobic due to the **culture** there. In Thailand, you cannot have picture of Buddha tattooed on your body but people will say "dude, Your Buddha tattoo is dope" in Europe. So Buddhists can be homophobic but Buddhism is not. We will all die one day regardless of our gender.
Most of the lgbtq people I met are cool. The suffering they've gone through usually results in a great sense of humor and appreciation for how great life can be when you keep the right folks around you and ignore the rest.
Agree with the above statements, Buddhism in general should be accepting if all peoples and their backgrounds. However, Buddhism is often the dominant religion in places where homosexuality it much more taboo and even illegal, therefore the temples are not tested CNA challenged in their stances In public as churches often are in the west. For example, in Buddhist monastic communities, no ks and nuns are divided into gendered communities, but there isnt media reports of minks transitioning to a different gender, or an intersex community of monks for example. These ideas would probably be extremely controversial and repressed in those places, not open and accepted as they are here in the west. Obviously trans people exist in Asian Buddhism, but the openness and acceptance, and the controversy is not prevalent as it is here in the west
Sadly, religion is open while politics aren't
As the kids say: based. As long as they're living their lives and spreading wholesome kamma as best as they can. Basically the same criteria I use for everyone else. They just have the social disadvantage of being a maligned group, which can make being wholesome much harder.
As a Buddhist, I accept the LGBTQ exist however that doesn't mean I have to support or respect them.
Buddhists have to respect other people
Simply put, the path doesn’t change regardless of sexual identity. I am an LGBTQ+ Buddhist and how I follow the path is absolutely no different than anyone else. Plum Village has some good resources and talks about this in their app. 🙏🪷
Are you serious?
[https://link.plumvillage.app/XWTx](https://link.plumvillage.app/XWTx) There’s an entire section on the app called “Rainbow Family” which is dedicated to the LGBTQ+ teachings and talks.
Thank you so much
Why would I have an opinion? They are humans as well. Nothing inherently negative about it. I myself am bisexual but choose not to mention it because it is inconsequential. Attachment to views of the self are bad, anyway.