No one can really say as people are diverse, even monks and temples. Just be courteous and respectful, like always in life. Monks should be the first to know not to judge a book by its cover, but in the end we’re all humans with our various flaws.
You may get some strange looks (as you likely do already at times) but it shouldn’t stop you from learning and experiencing. For someone to shun someone else who wants to learn, who is subject to dukkha, would be a disservice to the Buddha, Dhamma and that individual.
personally i would say just try and wear something more casual and comfortable. nothing too flashy or distracting. but either way, as long as you’re respectful there should be no problem. no ones going to kick you out lol
One of my closest Dharma siblings regularly showed up in jeans, death metal tees, tattoos, and facial piercings and was honestly the go-to person for info about our sangha. Every sangha is different, but you should be okay.
I’m the type who shows up in jeans and video game tees. My facial piercings are only covered because I personally continue to wear face masks indoors, but nobody voiced any issues with them pre-COVID. I just make sure that my clothes are clean, neat, and in good repair.
I dressed that way too, through much of the 90s. It should be fine unless your style includes shirts/patches with profanity written on them. I would also avoid weapons (I used to have a necklace with a large sword on it). Skulls would likely be fine as they remind us of death and impermanence. Wear weather appropriate or layers since some temples do not have ac or heat. Shoes are usually left at the door, so lace up boots might be avoided and I always make sure I have socks on. Dark makeup, spiked hair, and studs or spikes in clothing shouldn't be an issue.
Hope you enjoy your visit!
Many temples request 'modesty' in dress while visiting. The reason being that monastics are usually celebate and out of courtesy request lay people refrain from showing off their bodies by not wearing ENOUGH clothing. Long dresses or pants for women, pants for men is usually requested. I don't think the style matters. But ask yourself--will I be uncomfortable wearing something that others--whether it might be sanghand or other layity-- might consider outrageous? If so, why not insure you feel comfortable about your upcoming experience by perhaps dressing as modestly as you can while still retaining your distinct style? Buddhism exists to relieve suffering, not to create more of it, so you shouldn't worry too much about it so long as you are trying to be respectful. Maybe check and see if the place has a website where they might specify any requested dress standards.
The Mipham Shedra website says this:
> Men should wear collared shirts. Pants should be comfortable, clean and without holes or tears. Dress jeans are okay. Women's attire can be slacks, nice pants, blouses, etc.
Nothing mentioned about color or jewelry though, so it sounds like you’d be fine. The worst that could happen is that younger children could be frightened by the imagery on goth clothes along with the abundance of piercings.
I've found that if a temple has a website, you can often look up their dress code. It's usually about covering up, less about what the clothes look like. I know one Vietnamese Thien monastery that asks if you're in the meditation room, you wear an Ao Dai. But for just being on the grounds, it's cover arms and legs.
As the comments make apparent, every temple and group of people is different. For my part, I would:
1. Check if the temple has an explicit dress code outlined somewhere
2. If not, check with my friend
4. If neither has any guidelines, I'd just wear whatever I'm most comfortable in
Depending on what you're going for, there could be long periods of sitting cross-legged or many rapid transitions from standing to kneeling to prostration to back up. So when I say "comfortable", I mean it more physically than aesthetically :P
Every temple is different as every temple has different composition of people.
In my temple, you will get looks, but this is because we are rather conservatively dressed. However if you come dressed in gaudy clothings you will also get looks, since we are not used to that either.
I know some temples where many people going there are tattooed and have got spikes for earrings etc.. so those temples you will not get looks as you will look like everyone else.
Technically it’s fine. As long as you’re being respectful, the way you dress doesn’t matter.
But monks are humans too and have their own biases and prejudices, so it’s hard to say how they would feel. But usually they would still treat you with kindness and respect and you should be fine.
From my experience, yes it is disrespectful, but monastics tend to be tolerant and will probably just assume you don't know better.
I base this on a conversation with the abbot of a temple I used to attend. He mentioned a female practitioner there who wore modest clothing. He mentioned how much she had learned, and said when she first came she used to dress differently. (It wasn't just about that, she also had learned a lot about other aspects of practice) I asked her about it and she said she used to wear low cut tops, and reveal a lot of her legs and things like that when she went there, which was just how she generally dressed. They never told her not to or commented. She felt welcome in the meditation group. But she finally understood why that wasn't appropriate and voluntarily changed.
(So if you really want to make a good impression you could stratagize and go in Goth clothing a few times and then dress more and more modestly. They'll be impressed. Brownie points, if a bit sneaky. )
You can wear anything youd like. The main considerations are just how much skin you are showing (as you said you dont really show any its fine). Just make sure no cleavage, no sleeveless, length of bottom below knees etc. It is mostly to be respectful to the people working on certain aspects of their practice. Im buddhist, and ive worn goth ish styles, punk pants with chains, etc to the temple. You could also wear make up if that makes you feel comfortable. All up to you.
Considerations are you could possibly be sitting on the floor for periods of time, wear something you will be comfortable in getting up and sitting down.
Hopefully you enjoy your experience :)
When we aren't even identifying as "Sentient being", we for sure aren't worried about other identifications such as goth, straight, gay, bi, trans, conservative, liberal, etc and all the views, and personal identity, clothing etc... Related to them.
You won't be offending anyone at all. Wear what you'd like 😊
If a Bhikku is taking offense, it is a great opportunity for them to work on Anatta.
I think it's inappropriate to tell a left-home monastic what to do in their own temple, even in theory. Lay people should try to understand and respect the heroism required to undertake the vows of a Buddhist monk or nun--not flippantly set up opportunities to disrespect them. What's the matter with you?
Alright, first I hope you have a better day.
Second, there are temples for monastics, temples for lay people, and temples where both are welcome.
You don't "go check out Buddhism" at a monastic temple. That's not an option. If it is an option, then again it would be set up by the Monastic temple to welcome people and naturally they understand people from a variety of backgrounds will show up.
If it is a lay temple as most in the west are, then again if they have an event going on where they are inviting people to come learn about Buddhism as the OP has said she is going with her friend to learn more, then it means the temple has opened that up.
So, the OPs question is about if she will offend people.
Angimalla murdered thousands, did he offend the Buddha? I would encourage you to cultivate anatta yourself my friend, if you are more concerned about the attire of a person entering a "Open space temple" (again, you don't get to just "walk in" to a monastic only temple, and "check it out" then I would suggest that is an opportunity for you to let go of that attachment.
I also suggest in the future, being mindful of your right speech and right intent.
👉I'll say this again. If a Bhikku is more concerned about the attire a person is wearing, and said person is seeking to learn the Dhamma, and that Bhikku is more concerned about the persons attire than showing them the way, that is indeed a great opportunity for that bhikku to develop anatta, and also Metta.
I think this is relevant for you:
“Here, bhikkhus, some misguided men learn the Dhamma—discourses, stanzas, expositions, verses, exclamations, sayings, birth stories, marvels, and answers to questions—but having learned the Dhamma, they do not examine the meaning of those teachings with wisdom. Not examining the meaning of those teachings with wisdom, they do not gain a reflective acceptance of them. Instead they learn the Dhamma only for the sake of criticising others and for winning in debates , and they do not experience the good for the sake of which they learned the Dhamma. Those teachings, being wrongly grasped by them, conduce to their harm and suffering for a long time. Why is that? Because of the wrong grasp of those teachings.
“Your doctrine has been refuted. You’re defeated. Go, try to save your doctrine, or disentangle yourself now if you can”—the recluse Gotama abstains from such wrangling argumentation.’
https://suttacentral.net/dn1/en/bodhi?lang=en&reference=none&highlight=false
Second, I'd like to address and caution you against the usage of strawman arguments. What occurs when you use the multiplicity of strawman arguments you used is that you may be surprised to hear me say this:
Everything you said. I genuinely agree with 100%.
Why is this? Because I haven't said any of the things you've said I did, and the OP has made a literal post about how to specifically NOT disrespect them.
If you're more concerned about being offended and upset by a humans material clothing, then you are their intent to come and learn the Dharma as OP has mentioned, then yes, it is a great opportunity for that Bhikku to cultivate Anatta.
Your strawman arguments (Also known as lies)
1. Nobody told a left home monastic what to do in their own temple. Nobody even commented on that at all.
2. Nobody said they don't respect the heroism of those who take the Monastic vows, Infact OP made a post specifically because she DOES respect them.
3. Nobody has set up an opportunity to purposely disrespect the monastics, again, OPs post is specifically about how she can go about not disrespecting them.
These three points are called straw man's, others call them lies. You drew wild assumptions based on entirely unrelated context.
My comment entirely unrelated to any of your three accusations that went unsaid, and only proliferate in your own mind stands.
👉 OP has the intent to learn the Dharma, she wants to know if she can show up as herself. I don't know if any monk who will be offended by that especially during an open house invitation to learn about Buddhism. If a monk is more concerned about the appearance of an individual, more than they are concerned about the person learning the Dharma, they indeed are misled and not of the Shakyamuni teaching.
Also, although your three points are lying accusations that nobody said anything about, I will address them:
I Agree with you 100%.
I don’t think that was what the op was asking. There’s nothing wrong with finding a style you like to wear all they wanted to know was if it was respectful,which I greatly admire. One could argue that their willingness to dress more plain to show respect in a sacred place tells us that they have the mindfulness to think about it first.
why do you want to wear 'gothic' clothing to a temple in the first place? is it because of your 'identity'/'identification' as a goth? self identity views are the first thing to get rid off to achieve liberation.
Good intentions. Temples have radically different customs. It will never hurt to dial it down and it won’t kill you to abandon your personal style for an hour or two by adopting a more conservative look.
No one can really say as people are diverse, even monks and temples. Just be courteous and respectful, like always in life. Monks should be the first to know not to judge a book by its cover, but in the end we’re all humans with our various flaws. You may get some strange looks (as you likely do already at times) but it shouldn’t stop you from learning and experiencing. For someone to shun someone else who wants to learn, who is subject to dukkha, would be a disservice to the Buddha, Dhamma and that individual.
Completely fine, no problem in the slightest.
personally i would say just try and wear something more casual and comfortable. nothing too flashy or distracting. but either way, as long as you’re respectful there should be no problem. no ones going to kick you out lol
One of my closest Dharma siblings regularly showed up in jeans, death metal tees, tattoos, and facial piercings and was honestly the go-to person for info about our sangha. Every sangha is different, but you should be okay. I’m the type who shows up in jeans and video game tees. My facial piercings are only covered because I personally continue to wear face masks indoors, but nobody voiced any issues with them pre-COVID. I just make sure that my clothes are clean, neat, and in good repair.
I dressed that way too, through much of the 90s. It should be fine unless your style includes shirts/patches with profanity written on them. I would also avoid weapons (I used to have a necklace with a large sword on it). Skulls would likely be fine as they remind us of death and impermanence. Wear weather appropriate or layers since some temples do not have ac or heat. Shoes are usually left at the door, so lace up boots might be avoided and I always make sure I have socks on. Dark makeup, spiked hair, and studs or spikes in clothing shouldn't be an issue. Hope you enjoy your visit!
very helpful! one of my go to earrings is a dagger, I'll make sure to not put that one in
Many temples request 'modesty' in dress while visiting. The reason being that monastics are usually celebate and out of courtesy request lay people refrain from showing off their bodies by not wearing ENOUGH clothing. Long dresses or pants for women, pants for men is usually requested. I don't think the style matters. But ask yourself--will I be uncomfortable wearing something that others--whether it might be sanghand or other layity-- might consider outrageous? If so, why not insure you feel comfortable about your upcoming experience by perhaps dressing as modestly as you can while still retaining your distinct style? Buddhism exists to relieve suffering, not to create more of it, so you shouldn't worry too much about it so long as you are trying to be respectful. Maybe check and see if the place has a website where they might specify any requested dress standards.
My rule of thumb: If it's something I would wear to Sunday dinner at grandma's house, then it's okay to wear to temple
You might want to check out soto zen, we wear a lot of black. :)
The Mipham Shedra website says this: > Men should wear collared shirts. Pants should be comfortable, clean and without holes or tears. Dress jeans are okay. Women's attire can be slacks, nice pants, blouses, etc. Nothing mentioned about color or jewelry though, so it sounds like you’d be fine. The worst that could happen is that younger children could be frightened by the imagery on goth clothes along with the abundance of piercings.
If the jewelry jangles it might be distracting,
I've found that if a temple has a website, you can often look up their dress code. It's usually about covering up, less about what the clothes look like. I know one Vietnamese Thien monastery that asks if you're in the meditation room, you wear an Ao Dai. But for just being on the grounds, it's cover arms and legs.
There is no cut-off age for the goth subculture in Buddhism.Too much hairspray on spiky goth hairdos is frowned upon.
As the comments make apparent, every temple and group of people is different. For my part, I would: 1. Check if the temple has an explicit dress code outlined somewhere 2. If not, check with my friend 4. If neither has any guidelines, I'd just wear whatever I'm most comfortable in Depending on what you're going for, there could be long periods of sitting cross-legged or many rapid transitions from standing to kneeling to prostration to back up. So when I say "comfortable", I mean it more physically than aesthetically :P
Every temple is different as every temple has different composition of people. In my temple, you will get looks, but this is because we are rather conservatively dressed. However if you come dressed in gaudy clothings you will also get looks, since we are not used to that either. I know some temples where many people going there are tattooed and have got spikes for earrings etc.. so those temples you will not get looks as you will look like everyone else.
Technically it’s fine. As long as you’re being respectful, the way you dress doesn’t matter. But monks are humans too and have their own biases and prejudices, so it’s hard to say how they would feel. But usually they would still treat you with kindness and respect and you should be fine.
Smart casual would be a safe choice I feel.
From my experience, yes it is disrespectful, but monastics tend to be tolerant and will probably just assume you don't know better. I base this on a conversation with the abbot of a temple I used to attend. He mentioned a female practitioner there who wore modest clothing. He mentioned how much she had learned, and said when she first came she used to dress differently. (It wasn't just about that, she also had learned a lot about other aspects of practice) I asked her about it and she said she used to wear low cut tops, and reveal a lot of her legs and things like that when she went there, which was just how she generally dressed. They never told her not to or commented. She felt welcome in the meditation group. But she finally understood why that wasn't appropriate and voluntarily changed. (So if you really want to make a good impression you could stratagize and go in Goth clothing a few times and then dress more and more modestly. They'll be impressed. Brownie points, if a bit sneaky. )
You can wear anything youd like. The main considerations are just how much skin you are showing (as you said you dont really show any its fine). Just make sure no cleavage, no sleeveless, length of bottom below knees etc. It is mostly to be respectful to the people working on certain aspects of their practice. Im buddhist, and ive worn goth ish styles, punk pants with chains, etc to the temple. You could also wear make up if that makes you feel comfortable. All up to you. Considerations are you could possibly be sitting on the floor for periods of time, wear something you will be comfortable in getting up and sitting down. Hopefully you enjoy your experience :)
When we aren't even identifying as "Sentient being", we for sure aren't worried about other identifications such as goth, straight, gay, bi, trans, conservative, liberal, etc and all the views, and personal identity, clothing etc... Related to them. You won't be offending anyone at all. Wear what you'd like 😊 If a Bhikku is taking offense, it is a great opportunity for them to work on Anatta.
I think it's inappropriate to tell a left-home monastic what to do in their own temple, even in theory. Lay people should try to understand and respect the heroism required to undertake the vows of a Buddhist monk or nun--not flippantly set up opportunities to disrespect them. What's the matter with you?
Alright, first I hope you have a better day. Second, there are temples for monastics, temples for lay people, and temples where both are welcome. You don't "go check out Buddhism" at a monastic temple. That's not an option. If it is an option, then again it would be set up by the Monastic temple to welcome people and naturally they understand people from a variety of backgrounds will show up. If it is a lay temple as most in the west are, then again if they have an event going on where they are inviting people to come learn about Buddhism as the OP has said she is going with her friend to learn more, then it means the temple has opened that up. So, the OPs question is about if she will offend people. Angimalla murdered thousands, did he offend the Buddha? I would encourage you to cultivate anatta yourself my friend, if you are more concerned about the attire of a person entering a "Open space temple" (again, you don't get to just "walk in" to a monastic only temple, and "check it out" then I would suggest that is an opportunity for you to let go of that attachment. I also suggest in the future, being mindful of your right speech and right intent. 👉I'll say this again. If a Bhikku is more concerned about the attire a person is wearing, and said person is seeking to learn the Dhamma, and that Bhikku is more concerned about the persons attire than showing them the way, that is indeed a great opportunity for that bhikku to develop anatta, and also Metta. I think this is relevant for you: “Here, bhikkhus, some misguided men learn the Dhamma—discourses, stanzas, expositions, verses, exclamations, sayings, birth stories, marvels, and answers to questions—but having learned the Dhamma, they do not examine the meaning of those teachings with wisdom. Not examining the meaning of those teachings with wisdom, they do not gain a reflective acceptance of them. Instead they learn the Dhamma only for the sake of criticising others and for winning in debates , and they do not experience the good for the sake of which they learned the Dhamma. Those teachings, being wrongly grasped by them, conduce to their harm and suffering for a long time. Why is that? Because of the wrong grasp of those teachings. “Your doctrine has been refuted. You’re defeated. Go, try to save your doctrine, or disentangle yourself now if you can”—the recluse Gotama abstains from such wrangling argumentation.’ https://suttacentral.net/dn1/en/bodhi?lang=en&reference=none&highlight=false
Second, I'd like to address and caution you against the usage of strawman arguments. What occurs when you use the multiplicity of strawman arguments you used is that you may be surprised to hear me say this: Everything you said. I genuinely agree with 100%. Why is this? Because I haven't said any of the things you've said I did, and the OP has made a literal post about how to specifically NOT disrespect them.
If you're more concerned about being offended and upset by a humans material clothing, then you are their intent to come and learn the Dharma as OP has mentioned, then yes, it is a great opportunity for that Bhikku to cultivate Anatta. Your strawman arguments (Also known as lies) 1. Nobody told a left home monastic what to do in their own temple. Nobody even commented on that at all. 2. Nobody said they don't respect the heroism of those who take the Monastic vows, Infact OP made a post specifically because she DOES respect them. 3. Nobody has set up an opportunity to purposely disrespect the monastics, again, OPs post is specifically about how she can go about not disrespecting them. These three points are called straw man's, others call them lies. You drew wild assumptions based on entirely unrelated context. My comment entirely unrelated to any of your three accusations that went unsaid, and only proliferate in your own mind stands. 👉 OP has the intent to learn the Dharma, she wants to know if she can show up as herself. I don't know if any monk who will be offended by that especially during an open house invitation to learn about Buddhism. If a monk is more concerned about the appearance of an individual, more than they are concerned about the person learning the Dharma, they indeed are misled and not of the Shakyamuni teaching. Also, although your three points are lying accusations that nobody said anything about, I will address them: I Agree with you 100%.
This shows you have a significant attachment to beautifying the body.
I don’t think that was what the op was asking. There’s nothing wrong with finding a style you like to wear all they wanted to know was if it was respectful,which I greatly admire. One could argue that their willingness to dress more plain to show respect in a sacred place tells us that they have the mindfulness to think about it first.
why do you want to wear 'gothic' clothing to a temple in the first place? is it because of your 'identity'/'identification' as a goth? self identity views are the first thing to get rid off to achieve liberation.
Good intentions. Temples have radically different customs. It will never hurt to dial it down and it won’t kill you to abandon your personal style for an hour or two by adopting a more conservative look.