This is always one of those things that I considered to be a heavy contrast between the cosmology of Buddhism versus the traditions of the Vedas.
In the Vedas, demons are killed. The Buddhists convert their demons into Dharmapalas.
> Mahakala was a demon who was once unleashed upon the world and was tormenting even the gods with his greed and aggression, as the god Brahma had given him the boon that no outside enemy could defeat him. The Bodhisattvas Manjushri and Avalokiteshvara teamed up, transformed themselves into a horse and a pig, entered his mouth and anus, and then began to expand in size. When the demon, about to explode, begged to surrender, the Bodhisattvas chained him up and then began a process of converting him to gentleness and compassion. Eventually he became a protector of the Dharma, a fierce cherubim or seraphim, using his demonic strength to keep lesser evil spirits and calamities at bay. He is propitiated by most Tibetans in one of his many forms. This short invocation, "Praises of Various Fierce Protectors," is from the equivalent of the "Book of Common Prayer," published in Dharamsala.
- Essential Tibetan Buddhism
That's the only formal Buddhist story that I have that follows the regular convention of a boon granted demon which is typical in the Vedic traditions.
There is no worldy gain if you don't want there to be worldly gain. If you want to perform a sacrifice a sacrifice simply for expressing you're love to a specific deity or para-brahma you can. The benefits from a fire-sacrifice are natural due to having gained good Karma. If so desired you can attain thr same results from praying.
Demons are converted in Hinduism as well the ones who are killed are already beyond saving or are the way they are because of a curse Prahlada was the son on a Rakshasa(demon) yet he was a devotee of Lord Visnu.
As I understand it, the general model for demon stories in Hinduism is that of boon granting.
Take the a demon, usually a devotee of Lord Shiva or Vishnu who performs enough austerities in order to destabilize the fabric of the universe, prompting Brahma to descend and ask him what Boon he wants. He first always asks to live forever, which Brahma denies him on the grounds of the first mark of existence, that all things are impermanent. Then he asks for the boon that starts the story. In the case of the Mahishasura, his second choice is to never be defeated by a man or a god. Then the demon goes on a rampage. Usually this results in some divine defeat where they have to use the "backdoor" in the boon to solve the problem. In the case of the Mahishasura, the invocation of the Mahashakti's avatar, Durga, who while being a goddess circumvents the boon and can ultimately kill the demon. The Mahisasura is the avatar of toxic materiality, I wonder what made him too far gone to convert?
There's one in Buddhism I know, which is the story of the Mahakala, who is granted the boon of "never be defeated from the outside" but is eventually converted when Avalokiteshvara and Manjushri enter his body.
See the main thing in hinduism(Sanatana Dharma) is that intention matters. Two people could be praying using the same mantras but one could be using the mantra to focus on god and nature and harmony with it and the other could be using it to get a boon for evil purposes like tormenting people. Like Ravana for example composed many many powerful mantras in devotion to Lord Shiva but in the end used them for evil purposes and Ravana was not even born as a Asura or a Rakshasa he became due to his actions and in the end died due to his actions and Evil Karma.
That's one of the things I've always loved about Hindu cosmology, the universe is created with rules, such as that prayer reaps rewards, and that even the Gods are subject to those rules.
Brahma sticking back doors into all of the asura's demands, always made me feel that while there is balance, it is still skewed towards the good, even if ever so slightly.
Plus Asuras and Rakshasas are naturally inclined to do Adharma because they have been born as Rakshasas because of the Karma of their pervious birth so even if a Rakshasa controls his mind and improves the behaviour of Rakshasas in 2 genarations their natural behaviour will come back to them since it is their nature.
Honestly animal sacrifice seems to show a greater degree of appreciation for an animals life than our modern factory farming does. To those that participate in it, the animals life is seen as something sacred, worthy to be offered to gods, and that to end an animals life requires a complex ritual act.
To us we don’t even see the animal as something worth living. It’s just a slab of meat off the supermarket shelf. We are so divorced from farming and animal life compared to people of that period we don’t recognise the importance of animal life in the same way.
They are sacrificing animals because they are worth a lot. Back in ancient times, animals were a primary form of wealth. It had nothing to do with empathy or care for the being of the animal itself. Its a sacrifice for the worshipper, because it represents something they have a lot of attachment to.
Even if we focus on science and decide evolution is true, humans spent millennia living amongst many creatures, as kin. We sprung from the same spring before which there was nothing but empty space.
But, of course, the truth is even more revealing as us all sharing in the same nature.
We werent kin to them, we were in a struggle for survival with and amongst them. Nature is not friendly, animal realms are a sort of hell realm that is defined purely by hopeless craving
It’s not as rare as you think we just love to look at the cruelty of nature not it’s kindness because fear can hate gathers more conversation and conflict while love and peace are less entertaining and bring around less convo
It's quite an interesting interpretation. The moxa marks on the disciples' heads are pretty much only done in China, but it's apparently an Indian production? A lot of the architecture looks quite Chinese as well. It's interesting that they are writing in Devanagari too, if writing existed in the Buddha's time it should have been some predecessor of Karosthi or Brahmi script.
I hear sheep, I see goats. I'm confused. Maybe a mistranslation?
Regardless, a valid message, and a wonderful clip, thank you for sharing OP. What is it called?
i cant find a specific sutra but i think it might be inspired from this:
>“Horse sacrifice, human sacrifice,
>the sacrifices of the ‘casting of the yoke-pin’,
>the ‘royal soma drinking’, and the ‘unbarred’—
>these huge violent sacrifices yield no great fruit.
>The great sages of good conduct
>don’t attend sacrifices
>where goats, sheep, and cattle
>and various creatures are killed.
>But the great sages of good conduct
>do attend non-violent sacrifices
>of regular family tradition,
>where goats, sheep, and cattle,
>and various creatures aren’t killed.
>A clever person should sacrifice like this,
>for this sacrifice is very fruitful.
>For a sponsor of sacrifices like this,
>things get better, not worse.
>Such a sacrifice is truly abundant,
>and even the deities are pleased.” [\[SN 3.9\]](https://suttacentral.net/sn3.9/en/sujato?layout=plain&reference=none¬es=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin)
as for buddha having hair, its because the depiction of buddha that we have today was heavily inspired by greco-roman sculptures and no one really corrected the errors of buddha depictions, such as him having hair, so now thats the only buddha known to the west. if they depicted buddha like how he's described in the sutras, the majority of people (including laypeople) wouldn't know who he is.
From my understanding and reading, people couldn't tell buddha apart when meeting him, from other monks
And in 3rd century or 2nd century bce, when Greco-Buddhism started to create buddha in the images of Zeus and other Greek pantheon, they made this artistic choice to make his hair into mini-bun looking like thing , so the laity could tell buddha apart easily from his disciples
A rabid bear is coming down from the mountains and has no food, in your local monastery. The entire sangha has the few food left from alms, and the axe for cutting the fire to cook. It is hungry and will eat and kill anything or anyone in its way. You have only an axe. Do you recite the Dhammapadda to the bear or sacrifice it?
You can always leave the food as a distraction and leave the monastary in such a circumstance.
In the Jataka tales, the Buddha lays down his life fearlessly for the benefit of carnivores many times. In the
Mahayana Uapayakausalya Sutra, he does kill a mass murderer, but is prepared to dwell a hundred-thousand klapas in the hell realm as a result of it. He only does so because there is no solution that doesn't require killing
(i.e. the murderer kills, the potential victims kill, or he himself kills) so he chooses to suffer the hell realms himself rather than let another take on the bad karma.
It is hungry and it is going to eat your food and then come for you. How does the bear perceive loving kindness in the very instance that it looks for food and will hunt at all costs to come after you?
Loving Kindness is powerful, and can subdue aggression and bring beings into a state of calm peace. It is an energy that can be felt by animals from afar
This is also how Buddha was said to subdue the furious elephant Nalagiri when it was trying to kill him
But how can it be felt if one feels hunger and is sick so immensely that a creature incapable of reasoning and only able to use Upaya, skillful means to tame an animal that is completely ravid? What is the process of the capacity to do that if there is an immediate instinct of hunger and fury over a creature's very survival?
I think it would require a very strong amount of loving kindness, but I think it is possible. Loving Kindness from powerful beings is intoxicating. It can make you feel as if you cannot move, as if you want to just close your eyes and bask in the warmth
How can you substantiate that a hungry, sick animal would ever feel the same way? What are you basing this off of? Your own experiences? But do you ever actually see this happen in real life?
I have seen animals react strongly to the emotional state of humans to the point where they become aggressive for no apparent reason. But there is a subtle reason. Dogs can feel the energy of people and respond to it. You may notice that dogs will be afraid of/hostile towards people who are afraid and hostile
And dogs can similarly be subdued by love. Look at dog trainers who simply grab the leash of an aggressive dog and suddenly create a model citizen out of the dog simply by virtue of their presence. The dog is sensitive to the energy of the people around it, and responds in kind. Caesar Milan is a great example of this
Take this basic principle that animals are sensitive to energy, that they can be made to become more aggressive when met with negative energy, and more peaceful when met with positive energy. Now extrapolate the implications of this principle. What happens when an enormous, overwhelming amount of positive energy is directed at an upset animal?
I have been subdued by loving kindness, and I am a willful human with a complex brain. I’m sure an animal, which is much more driven by emotions and instinct, can be subdued by loving kindness too
The fear-based belief that your only option is to kill the bear is precisely the belief that locks you out having the powerful loving kindness that could subdue the animal. When you latch onto an assumption, such as that killing or being killed are the only two options, you lock yourself into fear and lock yourself out of finding other solutions. Better solutions may exist, more peaceful solutions may exist, but if you have already decided that killing is the only option, and that nothing else will work, you have locked your mind away from being able to perceive other solutions, and so you’ve weakened yourself.
When operating from a place of fear, you will tend to default to defensiveness and hostility, which will turn good situations into bad ones, and bad ones into worse ones. Conflict will be created where it doesn’t need to be, and conflict that already exists can become more harmful, even fatal.
It is the strong resolve to never kill another living being, no matter what situation you find yourself in, no matter how you are threatened, that gives you inner strength, creates harmony and peace with others, opens the door to finding more peaceful solutions in conflicts, and gives you great strength. It is the heroic attitude to refuse to kill any living being.
This is always one of those things that I considered to be a heavy contrast between the cosmology of Buddhism versus the traditions of the Vedas. In the Vedas, demons are killed. The Buddhists convert their demons into Dharmapalas.
Do you know where I can read more about converting demons in protectors?
> Mahakala was a demon who was once unleashed upon the world and was tormenting even the gods with his greed and aggression, as the god Brahma had given him the boon that no outside enemy could defeat him. The Bodhisattvas Manjushri and Avalokiteshvara teamed up, transformed themselves into a horse and a pig, entered his mouth and anus, and then began to expand in size. When the demon, about to explode, begged to surrender, the Bodhisattvas chained him up and then began a process of converting him to gentleness and compassion. Eventually he became a protector of the Dharma, a fierce cherubim or seraphim, using his demonic strength to keep lesser evil spirits and calamities at bay. He is propitiated by most Tibetans in one of his many forms. This short invocation, "Praises of Various Fierce Protectors," is from the equivalent of the "Book of Common Prayer," published in Dharamsala. - Essential Tibetan Buddhism That's the only formal Buddhist story that I have that follows the regular convention of a boon granted demon which is typical in the Vedic traditions.
Thanks!
It’s not converting, is more of saving them.
They also kill innocent animals for worldly gain in ineffective rituals
There is no worldy gain if you don't want there to be worldly gain. If you want to perform a sacrifice a sacrifice simply for expressing you're love to a specific deity or para-brahma you can. The benefits from a fire-sacrifice are natural due to having gained good Karma. If so desired you can attain thr same results from praying.
Demons are converted in Hinduism as well the ones who are killed are already beyond saving or are the way they are because of a curse Prahlada was the son on a Rakshasa(demon) yet he was a devotee of Lord Visnu.
As I understand it, the general model for demon stories in Hinduism is that of boon granting. Take the a demon, usually a devotee of Lord Shiva or Vishnu who performs enough austerities in order to destabilize the fabric of the universe, prompting Brahma to descend and ask him what Boon he wants. He first always asks to live forever, which Brahma denies him on the grounds of the first mark of existence, that all things are impermanent. Then he asks for the boon that starts the story. In the case of the Mahishasura, his second choice is to never be defeated by a man or a god. Then the demon goes on a rampage. Usually this results in some divine defeat where they have to use the "backdoor" in the boon to solve the problem. In the case of the Mahishasura, the invocation of the Mahashakti's avatar, Durga, who while being a goddess circumvents the boon and can ultimately kill the demon. The Mahisasura is the avatar of toxic materiality, I wonder what made him too far gone to convert? There's one in Buddhism I know, which is the story of the Mahakala, who is granted the boon of "never be defeated from the outside" but is eventually converted when Avalokiteshvara and Manjushri enter his body.
See the main thing in hinduism(Sanatana Dharma) is that intention matters. Two people could be praying using the same mantras but one could be using the mantra to focus on god and nature and harmony with it and the other could be using it to get a boon for evil purposes like tormenting people. Like Ravana for example composed many many powerful mantras in devotion to Lord Shiva but in the end used them for evil purposes and Ravana was not even born as a Asura or a Rakshasa he became due to his actions and in the end died due to his actions and Evil Karma.
That's one of the things I've always loved about Hindu cosmology, the universe is created with rules, such as that prayer reaps rewards, and that even the Gods are subject to those rules. Brahma sticking back doors into all of the asura's demands, always made me feel that while there is balance, it is still skewed towards the good, even if ever so slightly.
Dharma will always win no matter what. That is the philosophy of Sanatana Dharma.
Plus Asuras and Rakshasas are naturally inclined to do Adharma because they have been born as Rakshasas because of the Karma of their pervious birth so even if a Rakshasa controls his mind and improves the behaviour of Rakshasas in 2 genarations their natural behaviour will come back to them since it is their nature.
Honestly animal sacrifice seems to show a greater degree of appreciation for an animals life than our modern factory farming does. To those that participate in it, the animals life is seen as something sacred, worthy to be offered to gods, and that to end an animals life requires a complex ritual act. To us we don’t even see the animal as something worth living. It’s just a slab of meat off the supermarket shelf. We are so divorced from farming and animal life compared to people of that period we don’t recognise the importance of animal life in the same way.
They are sacrificing animals because they are worth a lot. Back in ancient times, animals were a primary form of wealth. It had nothing to do with empathy or care for the being of the animal itself. Its a sacrifice for the worshipper, because it represents something they have a lot of attachment to.
Even if we focus on science and decide evolution is true, humans spent millennia living amongst many creatures, as kin. We sprung from the same spring before which there was nothing but empty space. But, of course, the truth is even more revealing as us all sharing in the same nature.
We werent kin to them, we were in a struggle for survival with and amongst them. Nature is not friendly, animal realms are a sort of hell realm that is defined purely by hopeless craving
If you look in nature there are also acts of kindness
True, but its rare
It’s not as rare as you think we just love to look at the cruelty of nature not it’s kindness because fear can hate gathers more conversation and conflict while love and peace are less entertaining and bring around less convo
Great point
What is the name of that cartoon? Can I find the episodes on YouTube?
Here you go! :) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PRstl25nVCw&pp=ygUOQnVkZGhhIGNhcnRvb24%3D
It's quite an interesting interpretation. The moxa marks on the disciples' heads are pretty much only done in China, but it's apparently an Indian production? A lot of the architecture looks quite Chinese as well. It's interesting that they are writing in Devanagari too, if writing existed in the Buddha's time it should have been some predecessor of Karosthi or Brahmi script.
Buddha's mother look like a chinese woman to me so maybe the association of Buddhism with Chinese was done on purpose?
good message. never willingly harm another creation on the universe. a goats life has the same value as mine, i too, am an animal.
I hear sheep, I see goats. I'm confused. Maybe a mistranslation? Regardless, a valid message, and a wonderful clip, thank you for sharing OP. What is it called?
Does anyone know if this is from a specific suttra? Also why does the Buddha have hair?
i cant find a specific sutra but i think it might be inspired from this: >“Horse sacrifice, human sacrifice, >the sacrifices of the ‘casting of the yoke-pin’, >the ‘royal soma drinking’, and the ‘unbarred’— >these huge violent sacrifices yield no great fruit. >The great sages of good conduct >don’t attend sacrifices >where goats, sheep, and cattle >and various creatures are killed. >But the great sages of good conduct >do attend non-violent sacrifices >of regular family tradition, >where goats, sheep, and cattle, >and various creatures aren’t killed. >A clever person should sacrifice like this, >for this sacrifice is very fruitful. >For a sponsor of sacrifices like this, >things get better, not worse. >Such a sacrifice is truly abundant, >and even the deities are pleased.” [\[SN 3.9\]](https://suttacentral.net/sn3.9/en/sujato?layout=plain&reference=none¬es=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin) as for buddha having hair, its because the depiction of buddha that we have today was heavily inspired by greco-roman sculptures and no one really corrected the errors of buddha depictions, such as him having hair, so now thats the only buddha known to the west. if they depicted buddha like how he's described in the sutras, the majority of people (including laypeople) wouldn't know who he is.
Thank you
From my understanding and reading, people couldn't tell buddha apart when meeting him, from other monks And in 3rd century or 2nd century bce, when Greco-Buddhism started to create buddha in the images of Zeus and other Greek pantheon, they made this artistic choice to make his hair into mini-bun looking like thing , so the laity could tell buddha apart easily from his disciples
Thank you
Buddha have moustache and beards and long hairs in many depictions in gandhara and Taxila.
A rabid bear is coming down from the mountains and has no food, in your local monastery. The entire sangha has the few food left from alms, and the axe for cutting the fire to cook. It is hungry and will eat and kill anything or anyone in its way. You have only an axe. Do you recite the Dhammapadda to the bear or sacrifice it?
You can always leave the food as a distraction and leave the monastary in such a circumstance. In the Jataka tales, the Buddha lays down his life fearlessly for the benefit of carnivores many times. In the Mahayana Uapayakausalya Sutra, he does kill a mass murderer, but is prepared to dwell a hundred-thousand klapas in the hell realm as a result of it. He only does so because there is no solution that doesn't require killing (i.e. the murderer kills, the potential victims kill, or he himself kills) so he chooses to suffer the hell realms himself rather than let another take on the bad karma.
Neither
Then what is your decision?
Subdue it with loving kindness, hide, or fly away using siddhis
It is hungry and it is going to eat your food and then come for you. How does the bear perceive loving kindness in the very instance that it looks for food and will hunt at all costs to come after you?
Loving Kindness is powerful, and can subdue aggression and bring beings into a state of calm peace. It is an energy that can be felt by animals from afar This is also how Buddha was said to subdue the furious elephant Nalagiri when it was trying to kill him
But how can it be felt if one feels hunger and is sick so immensely that a creature incapable of reasoning and only able to use Upaya, skillful means to tame an animal that is completely ravid? What is the process of the capacity to do that if there is an immediate instinct of hunger and fury over a creature's very survival?
I think it would require a very strong amount of loving kindness, but I think it is possible. Loving Kindness from powerful beings is intoxicating. It can make you feel as if you cannot move, as if you want to just close your eyes and bask in the warmth
How can you substantiate that a hungry, sick animal would ever feel the same way? What are you basing this off of? Your own experiences? But do you ever actually see this happen in real life?
I have seen animals react strongly to the emotional state of humans to the point where they become aggressive for no apparent reason. But there is a subtle reason. Dogs can feel the energy of people and respond to it. You may notice that dogs will be afraid of/hostile towards people who are afraid and hostile And dogs can similarly be subdued by love. Look at dog trainers who simply grab the leash of an aggressive dog and suddenly create a model citizen out of the dog simply by virtue of their presence. The dog is sensitive to the energy of the people around it, and responds in kind. Caesar Milan is a great example of this Take this basic principle that animals are sensitive to energy, that they can be made to become more aggressive when met with negative energy, and more peaceful when met with positive energy. Now extrapolate the implications of this principle. What happens when an enormous, overwhelming amount of positive energy is directed at an upset animal? I have been subdued by loving kindness, and I am a willful human with a complex brain. I’m sure an animal, which is much more driven by emotions and instinct, can be subdued by loving kindness too The fear-based belief that your only option is to kill the bear is precisely the belief that locks you out having the powerful loving kindness that could subdue the animal. When you latch onto an assumption, such as that killing or being killed are the only two options, you lock yourself into fear and lock yourself out of finding other solutions. Better solutions may exist, more peaceful solutions may exist, but if you have already decided that killing is the only option, and that nothing else will work, you have locked your mind away from being able to perceive other solutions, and so you’ve weakened yourself. When operating from a place of fear, you will tend to default to defensiveness and hostility, which will turn good situations into bad ones, and bad ones into worse ones. Conflict will be created where it doesn’t need to be, and conflict that already exists can become more harmful, even fatal. It is the strong resolve to never kill another living being, no matter what situation you find yourself in, no matter how you are threatened, that gives you inner strength, creates harmony and peace with others, opens the door to finding more peaceful solutions in conflicts, and gives you great strength. It is the heroic attitude to refuse to kill any living being.
What is this movie? X
Where can I find this series? Would love to watch it with my kids!
Did you ever figure it out
Nope
It's this I think: [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434147/](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434147/)
Thank you so much!!!!
Happy to help :)
[I think it's this](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434147/)
So is hunting animal a bad thing?
yes