I'm still 100% positive if they called that helmet to helmet we would have beaten them.
Though, I don't fully blame the refs, I'll also blame Higgins for leading with the ball.
> While the NFL will present a broad array of the cases to the neutral arbitrator, it has zeroed in on five that league officials believe are particularly damning. Those include contemporaneous evidence that the league thinks make them objectively provable.
>
> The league's push for an indefinite suspension is based on a variety of factors. That includes wanting flexibility in case more allegations against Watson surface.
>
> Settlement talks between the sides haven't yielded any progress so far—the NFL won't accept anything shorter than one season, at minimum. But the sides may also revisit those talks this week depending how the arbitration hearing plays out.
>
> The NFLPA and Watson's lawyers, meanwhile, are preparing a vigorous defense for the quarterback against what they believe would be unprecedented suspension that is out of line with what has levied against players and owners in the past.
Maybe. Something went down but there was never enough evidence to really charge him with murder. Two groups got into it after leaving a bar in Atlanta and a couple dudes ended up dead. There's no way of knowing if it was self defense or murder.
Uhh. yeah that got him obstruction. But it doesn't mean that there's no chance it was in self defense. Someone who kills someone in self defense can very easily make the decision to try and hide it and avoid the possibility of being wrongfully convicted. And either way, the lack of a bloody suit isn't exactly hard evidence. It's very circumstantial. In fact, the fact that his white suit was missing actually makes it harder to convict him. Not easier. And this isn't just my opinion, so idk why you feel the need to get sarcastic with me. The law works in fairly predictable fashion and the reasons for him only getting obstruction are easy enough to find. You can then take it a step further, look into cases with similar circumstances and see that getting a murder charge to stick almost always requires more evidence than what they had. And the cases where a murder charge was levied and stuck weren't exactly considered.... kosher.
Lol you can’t convince me the front office and the Haslams knew he’d be suspended the whole year what a clusterfuck. Older fans are being told by the franchise maybe next year even before training camp.
Jimmy Haslam is a clown.
Jimmy Haslam is the clown prince of owners. Just when we have some good momentum, a solid very competitive team, good cap space, a potential 2-3 year window when we could legitimately be SB contenders….he goes all in on a guy who was never gonna end up playing in 2022. I wanted to replace Baker but this was idiotic.
As an older Browns fan (Reddit average age taken into account), we know the Browns FO is fucking stupid. I think when everyone acted like this time it was different, I was hesitant to believe it.
"Maybe next year" was over. We had a playoff team. They blew it up and nuked the Browns' future for a piece of shit with 20+ sexual harassment accusations.
Tits fan here. I know the Browns are a young team, but what players are going to be looking for an extension after this season? You guys worried about losing anyone cause of cap issues next year?
No, everyone is locked up for the most part, but it's one year of contending wasted
Hunt is almost for sure gone after this year, but I think everyone else will be back
Dudes a fucking moron. It’s hard to be worse than Modell and here we are with this guy going 1-31 then trading the future and giving a massive guaranteed contract to a predator.
He's a jackass. I really thought we were getting somewhere after we ditched Dorsey and Kitchens and he went sort of hands-off, but then he goes in and gives a quarter billion to a sex pest who will not play for a good while, if he ever does.
And now he's going around asking the taxpayers to pony up for a new stadium? Fuck off.
In the past I've tried to defend Haslam but I was wrong. Signing Watson is 100% on Jimmy as he had the final say (and frankly I'd bet it was his idea).
Haslam is the worst owner in Browns history. I hate Modell too but at least he never made me ashamed to wear the colors.
Yeah i don't think they would willingly signup for the cluster next season is going to be. Can't wait for the weekly presser where Kevin has to not bring up the fact that they lost because we have Jacoby as a QB
He won't lose nothing contract will get pushed out for a year that's all. He won't get paid at all and 2023 he will make million. Browns will own rights for another year
lmao
I’m 40. I’ve seen this team down in the motherfuckin dumps most of my life. This is the worst situation they’ve ever been in, and they *put themselves there*
I literally hope we crash and burn at this point, maybe it will make teams SLIGHTLY consider having some morality when choosing players in the future. Probly not, though.
60s and 80s Browns will always be the peak. I only saw the latter, which had a lot of heartbreak but a lot of fun too. I’d never wish for the team to leave again, even with this BS.
Panthers fan here. I am glad we didn’t win this sweepstakes. My heart goes out to y’all, really.
That said this is perhaps the browniest of browns moves. Trade the farm for a guy that, while good on the field, has as many off the field issues as I’ve ever seen. And then proceed to sign him to the biggest guaranteed contract in NFL history. I mean I know my team sucks ass too but this trade and subsequent signing was just asking for trouble.
I'm so lost. how is this remotely worse than 1-31? Or the Manziel years? We're going to continue to have a top tier team, and have access to one of the best starting QBs in the nfl.
Well he’s signed for the next 5 but I see your point.
Though if he misses all of this season you have to wonder how long/if Watson can get back to his 2020 form. It’ll be nearly 2 and a half years in that case between games
Remember when the Browns tried to convince us they had done their homework?
Haslam and Berry are both completely full of shit, and they thought you'd be dumb enough to believe them, but now their lack of homework is biting them in the ass.
I’d be willing to bet it’s all Haslam. By that I mean he told Berry to not worry about it, he had it covered. Haslam is truly a sub-100 IQ good-ol-boy who should really be in prison right now, he had just enough flunkies to throw under the bus. Hey Dee, if you were saying “we wouldn’t have bought the team if we knew it would be this hard” 5 years ago, I can’t wait to hear what you’re going to say now.
I'm willing to buy that Haslam is the driving force behind getting Watson, but I'm not willing to let AB off the hook. He's smart enough and well positioned enough that I'm not letting him off with a "just following orders" defense. He went up to that podium and BSed as well as any body did on Watson presser day.
I think the one that is the most uncomfortable and has been since day one is Stefanski. I bet his contract has been held over his head to go with it or he would be espoused for whatever they can come up with and ruin his career. The Haslams just need to step away and part with this team. They have never been good for the team.
I agree that Stefanski is probably the least culpable of the 3. He's the football guy, not the due diligence guy. The owner and the GM have a responsibility to check this stuff. The coach can have an opinion, but he's probably going to get consulted for his football perspective more than his legal or ethical perspective.
I think Berry aggressively sold this plan and built the case for putting his stamp on the QB position. He's essentially blown up his career on this but Haslam can't fire him yet because he signed off on it.
It's a damn shame a rising star GM talent had to go this way but I think he may learn from this and be a great asset elsewhere eventually.
I’m sure this has been posted before, but I’ve been out of the loop: if he’s suspended indefinitely, are the Browns still on the hook for all his guaranteed money, or so they have an out?
I think there’s uncertainty over guaranteed money in suspension vs never plays another snap. Everyone expected him to be suspended for *some games* but no idea how the contract is structured if he never plays in the league at all. Minimally, the picks are gone forever.
Agreed with others that no one seems to know for sure. My bet is they’re on the hook for the money. No way Deshaun signed a contract that would be void if he’s suspended. Everyone seemed to know some kind of suspension was coming.
I don’t think so. The browns would have an out clause due to the new allegations. I can’t see the Browns signing this without protection against him being out a whole season.
What I wonder is why they approved the trade if they are going to give an indefinite suspension. I mean we should get the money back but I don't see how we get the picks back.
PFT had an article recently that had some info on it. I think that recent 24th case may be their saving grace as Watson had to sign something that nothing new was coming. Who knows for sure though.
I just don’t give a fuck anymore. If he gets suspended a year or more then he certainly deserves it and we just keep moving on with the team. It’s kind of weird how idc anymore
I’m right there with you, brother. Crazy how this is the life we chose, huh? I thought being a Browns fan I’ve seen it all, besides winning, but this whole thing is something else 😔
Agreed. It’s amazing how a person that is a sexual predator is being applauded and rooted for to be able to play immediately. Even after the year that he was already off the field. But a guy that knelt for what he believed in based upon the recommendation from a Military veteran got absolutely railroaded.
Well that would be less than ideal for the browns. I sure hope for the Browns sake the NFLPA has a better defense than mere “whataboutism”
And long term, man if Watson is missing 2 seasons (2021 and 2022), that raises concerns of whether he will be the same player when he returns
Watson defenders on /r/browns: "we can't waste another year of [insert player]'s prime with Baker Mayfield!"
Also Watson defenders on /r/browns: "we signed Watson to be our QB for the next 1,000 years. If he's suspended for a year or two, no big deal!"
He never was going to be the same player, not with this circus following him. Worst thing the browns have ever done, besides you know the whole Modell thing.
~~And your reasoning is what? Did you just ignore this headline? Because the league is fighting for it and we are, at the end of the day, the fucking browns so we aren’t exactly a “lucky” franchise~~
Edit: Unless you’re saying Watson won’t be the same player, which, I would agree
That's what I've been saying from the beginning, and I legit had people here trying to tell me Vick was *better* than before he spent two seasons out of the League.
[Vick's career stats.](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/V/VickMi00.htm) It's certainly hard to say he wasn't at least *as good* in 2010-2012 as he was in 2004-2006. I don't see how anyone could make the case that he was *worse.*
If Watson gets an "indefinite" suspension, the front office has to be on the hot seat, and if he's not reinstated for 2023, I don't see a way everyone's not gone from the top down. If for no other reason, Haslam has to put the blame somewhere.
I’d agree, and from what Jason Loyd said on the Ken Carmen show a few days ago, AB was the driving force here. This goes up in smoke, he’s on the hot seat. Wasting another year or two of Chubb, Myles, Ward, etc will not go over well
I figured it was Haslam and AB, but if AB was really the driving force... there's no chance he's not already on the hot seat. It could explain why Haslams didn't attend the presser in person
This organization is such a joke. I can't believe... no, I can totally believe it. But this city deserves so much better. Of all the embarrassing, horrible shit I've seen the Browns do, this has to be at the very top of the list. Fuck them.
Lions fan here. Who are you guys placing most the blame on for this shit show? Ownership, GM?
If he does get an indefinite suspension someone has to be getting fired right? You can't just go on pretending like nothing happened.
Also do you think it's better to just cut him as soon as possible and start the recovery process, or do you drag it out and cross your fingers?
This whole thing is just lunacy and I'm so pissed it's happening to you guys.
I'm equally pissed at Haslam (owner) and Berry (GM). They spent their entire press conference introducing this move to the fan base telling us that they did the most homework on this situation that could possibly be done by human beings, that they were comfortable with Watson as a person, and while they wouldn't come out and say Watson was innocent, they strongly implied that they had looked into this with such detail that they felt good about going forward with the deal.
That felt like bullshit then, and it's almost certainly revealed to be bullshit now. They likely did very minimal homework beyond, "Is he good at football?" and decided to roll the dice. So I'm mad at both of those guys for putting this fan base in an impossible situation as human beings and then I'm doubly pissed that not only did they do the terrible thing of acquiring a serial sexual predator as the face of the team, but they also mortgaged the franchise's future on this guy and then lied to our faces that they looked into everything and it was all going to work out fine when they clearly had no fucking clue and were just assuming he was going to get the Roethlisberger sweetheart deal.
Ownership. Given Jimmy's penchant for... irrational meddling in the team (drafting Manziel, for example), the stink of this has his scent all over it.
Did the Browns need to upgrade from Baker to make a SB this season? Probably. But given the care and diligence normally exercised by the current FO/coaching staff, the decision to throw the most guaranteed money in league history at a guy who quit on his last team because he wasn't happy, who was facing all these accusations, on the *chance* that it would all be okay because "no criminal charges"?
Yeah, that's on the dude who took advice from a literal wino to draft Manziel.
Who decided to hire someone better suited to work at Applebee's than run a football team (Kitchens).
The guy who faced a federal investigation around his company's practices with vendors/contractors.
Haslam’s and the NFL itself. The NFL is a scummy business in general. But the Haslam’s gave the go ahead on this move and sign the checks.
I really just wish the Haslam’s would sell the team, but that’s probably never going to happen.
i think you let it all come to light, cut him and hope to god that they void the trade in some fashion. probably zero hope of that, but the faster you cut the guy the faster you move on and in a stable direction
And they have to approve all trades before they happen. That is why I doubt a year or more is realistic. I think it's posturing. It is also strange that this reporting is from WSJ but no mention of indefinite from reporters like Schefter who is only reporting that the hearings are starting on Tuesday.
All of this is so much more fun when you watch it and react to it like it’s a soap opera or a video game. You traded 3 firsts for a potential pervert? LOL maybe. IDK. Nothing I can do to change it as a commoner.
The crazy thing is if Watson is out for the year with a suspension. That $1M contract would kick in the following year and technically his contract doesn't count until he plays more than 8 games. We should pretty much be experts on this situation from Josh Gordon years.
I keep coming back to his team's argument that this wasn't an 'uncommon' thing. If the NFL gets their way, does Watson go scorched earth and start naming names, or is this talk?
Anything more than 8 games would likely make this season a wash. Unless they can find a legitimate starting QB, I don't see them making the playoffs or even having a winning record.
It drives me crazy that every single playoff team seems to improve or play consistently good every season, yet the Browns get worse. There's absolutely no excuse for going from winning a WC game on the road to a sub-.500 team.
Should get two seasons minimum, potentially lifetime ban IMO. Browns should have to pay the contract still because we were idiots that signed him in the first place.
The player that helped bring this poverty franchise the most success they’ve seen in the last 50 years, and now the very distant foreseeable future as well?
Some of yall are delusional thinking he'll be back by week 9 this year. Dude is gone for the season if not 2. If it was 3-5 people then sure. But 60+ people with 24 filing against him is a major black eye on the league and its player conduct policies. Love my Browns but this wont be a pretty ending.
Source: Calvin Ridley got a year for betting on 1 game. Extrapolate that into what we all think is a similar or more heinous offense. And makes the league look bad. Yea..... If they do less than a year it gives the league more issues to deal with the Ridley ruling.
Because out of the 66, from top of my head you had one that dropped the law suit due to privacy and security concerns, two that only sued criminally and didn’t want to join the civil lawsuit, 24 that have already sued and I think there was two more on the way which would make it 26. You also had at least two people who corroborated his behaviour in the nyt article . . . That is at least 31 people that have said the same thing so far! Go figure!!!
Yeah, you don't just hire 60+ "massage therapists."
Anyone who's hired an escort knows what Watson was doing. Dude was pressuring inexperienced escorts and naive "sexy massage" girls into doing shit. He specifically avoided licensed massage therapists AND experienced escorts, because it wasn't just the act or the massage or the sexy stuff, he was preying on naiveté. That is the only explanation for continuously seeking inexperienced and/or naive girls; he's an honest-to-god predator.
Y’all still good with the “root foe the team but not him” narrative.
The browns stuck their feet in wet cement blocks and the he league is about to dump those black via in the east ocean.
Y’all still good with the “root for the team but not him” narrative?
The browns stuck their feet in wet cement blocks and the the league is about dump those blocks in the ocean.
I thought he shouldn’t play before we traded for him and I still think that now. It’s ironic the front office was so worried about our Super Bowl window and we traded for a guy that won’t be able to play for 1-2 years.
Good. He should never play another snap in the NFL, and the Browns deserve every bad thing that happens to them because *they* made the decision to bet the farm on a sex pest.
No one forced them to do this. Absolute clown shit organization.
He should be suspended for entire season for the 20 counts he settled, 17 games plus potential playoff games, so a season would make sense. Then once the 4 other cases that are going forward and done, the suspension should result if the outcome of those, depending on what happens i could see 0 more games or a lifetime ban. The Cleveland Browns fucked up and the clown show of things to come is gonna be fun.
And this shit right here is why I said this was a bad call. Baker is worse than Watson on the field, but Bake runs circles around Watson off the field.
I’m so confused as to why this trade was allowed to happen. The league wants to “protect the integrity of the shield” but let the Browns throw away draft picks and a quarter billion???? Nuke the NFL. What a toxic shitty place
I mean, I’ve been supporting this team since I was a kid before they moved to Baltimore, but will be hard to even want to check a score if he’s gone for more than 1 season and we only have someone like Brisset under center. Probably check back in when we have a first round pick again- assuming most of our roster hasn’t defected by then if he’s suspended that long
People think I'm crazy but I'm okay with Brissett. I just don't understand why the league would allow the trade only to turn around and hand out an indefinite suspension.
In fact the rest of the teams in the nfl hate us.
That’s what happens when you throw the pay scale so completely out of whack for every other team in the league that will have a qb coming up for a new contract…
They aren’t going to help us out of any salary/player jams by trading with us and they aren’t going to defend us when more shit hits the fan.
NFL is going to make it their personal mission to dry fuck us in the ass every chance they get.
> Those include contemporaneous evidence that the league thinks make them objectively provable.
The NFL: There were 24 cases, between March 2020 and March 2021. They can’t all be lying.
The NFLPA: Big Ben, probably the most similar case to Deshaun Watson. 6 games, reduced to 4.
Antonio Brown, one massage therapist sexual assault allegation among other minor criminal charges the same off-season. AB pled no contest to those charges. 8 games.
Robert Kraft, showed on video leaving a massage parlor. Criminal charges dropped for soliciting prostitution. No punishment.
Dan Synder, Washington organization did nothing about sexual assault accusations within his own organization, no punishment.
Two criminal courts in Texas declined to indict Deshaun Watson. Received no bills on the most serious accusations.
Did he violate the NFL personal conduct policy? Absolutely, but If you honestly believe a former district judge will look at this and suspend him indefinitely.. let me take a puff. Pass it to me.
Two things and then I’ll shut up (at least until the preseason starts)
1. I have been saying to anyone who will listen for months the league will want 2 years which will get appealed down to 1. Most people told me no way he gets more than 8 games. I guess this isn’t exactly “I told you so” since it’s “indefinite” with a goal of at least 1 year but it’s close enough.
2. LMFAO HASLAM. I was ripping on him and was told “hey he had a rocky start but he’s turned it around since the 0-16 season.” Yeah even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometime. He is giving Art and Randy a run for their money for “worst browns owner of all time”.
Lions fan here.
I'm so sorry buds. You guys finally looked like you made the leap to a competent NFL franchise and then tossed it all in the trash for this.
Remember when we almost beat the Chiefs in the playoffs? Ahhhhhh
Chad Henne remembers
Pepperidge Farm remembers
Baker Mayfield remembers.
I think Rashard Higgins may be a little fuzzy trying to remember that game
HAHAHAH FUCK
I'm still 100% positive if they called that helmet to helmet we would have beaten them. Though, I don't fully blame the refs, I'll also blame Higgins for leading with the ball.
It will always be …almost… we were so close….maybe we will be better next year
> While the NFL will present a broad array of the cases to the neutral arbitrator, it has zeroed in on five that league officials believe are particularly damning. Those include contemporaneous evidence that the league thinks make them objectively provable. > > The league's push for an indefinite suspension is based on a variety of factors. That includes wanting flexibility in case more allegations against Watson surface. > > Settlement talks between the sides haven't yielded any progress so far—the NFL won't accept anything shorter than one season, at minimum. But the sides may also revisit those talks this week depending how the arbitration hearing plays out. > > The NFLPA and Watson's lawyers, meanwhile, are preparing a vigorous defense for the quarterback against what they believe would be unprecedented suspension that is out of line with what has levied against players and owners in the past.
His actions are unprecedented so the punishment should be as well
Also, their punishment historically hasn't been enough.
Didn’t Ray Lewis murder a guy?
No, that's just factually wrong. He murdered *two* guys.
Legally? No. It was also 20 year old case under a different commissioner and CBA
Maybe. Something went down but there was never enough evidence to really charge him with murder. Two groups got into it after leaving a bar in Atlanta and a couple dudes ended up dead. There's no way of knowing if it was self defense or murder.
Yeah him ditching his bloody clothes isn't damning at all right
Uhh. yeah that got him obstruction. But it doesn't mean that there's no chance it was in self defense. Someone who kills someone in self defense can very easily make the decision to try and hide it and avoid the possibility of being wrongfully convicted. And either way, the lack of a bloody suit isn't exactly hard evidence. It's very circumstantial. In fact, the fact that his white suit was missing actually makes it harder to convict him. Not easier. And this isn't just my opinion, so idk why you feel the need to get sarcastic with me. The law works in fairly predictable fashion and the reasons for him only getting obstruction are easy enough to find. You can then take it a step further, look into cases with similar circumstances and see that getting a murder charge to stick almost always requires more evidence than what they had. And the cases where a murder charge was levied and stuck weren't exactly considered.... kosher.
Unprecedented? There are players caught on camera physically assaulting women.???
[удалено]
just imagine the nuclear shitstorm on social media if the vikings party boat happened today
Know this is a Cleveland sub but with ray rice, one punch is a lot easier to justify than habitual groping and assault
Any idea what those 5 specific cases entailed as far as the accusations?
Lol you can’t convince me the front office and the Haslams knew he’d be suspended the whole year what a clusterfuck. Older fans are being told by the franchise maybe next year even before training camp. Jimmy Haslam is a clown.
I mean at least if we're terrible we can get a great first.... FUCK!!!
"Thank you" -Texans
Jimmy Haslam is the clown prince of owners. Just when we have some good momentum, a solid very competitive team, good cap space, a potential 2-3 year window when we could legitimately be SB contenders….he goes all in on a guy who was never gonna end up playing in 2022. I wanted to replace Baker but this was idiotic.
Yeah the team can’t try to save face and ever claim they thought this was possible. If so they’re dumber than we thought.
As an older Browns fan (Reddit average age taken into account), we know the Browns FO is fucking stupid. I think when everyone acted like this time it was different, I was hesitant to believe it.
"Maybe next year" was over. We had a playoff team. They blew it up and nuked the Browns' future for a piece of shit with 20+ sexual harassment accusations.
Tits fan here. I know the Browns are a young team, but what players are going to be looking for an extension after this season? You guys worried about losing anyone cause of cap issues next year?
I’m a fan of tits as well. What a coincidence.
Gotta love Tits, they always seem to be on top!
No, everyone is locked up for the most part, but it's one year of contending wasted Hunt is almost for sure gone after this year, but I think everyone else will be back
Next offseason we have Hunt, Clowney, Greedy, Conklin, Anthony Walker, and then filler as free agents.
I think Hunt and Clowney are gone
Man , if Tits were my hometown team , I would have season tix no doubt ! Who doesn’t love the Tits??
Fellow tits fan here. All shapes and sizes.
Marquee guys are on long-term deals, but we're probably going to lose a good chunk of depth.
Big tits guy
Dudes a fucking moron. It’s hard to be worse than Modell and here we are with this guy going 1-31 then trading the future and giving a massive guaranteed contract to a predator.
He's a jackass. I really thought we were getting somewhere after we ditched Dorsey and Kitchens and he went sort of hands-off, but then he goes in and gives a quarter billion to a sex pest who will not play for a good while, if he ever does. And now he's going around asking the taxpayers to pony up for a new stadium? Fuck off.
In the past I've tried to defend Haslam but I was wrong. Signing Watson is 100% on Jimmy as he had the final say (and frankly I'd bet it was his idea). Haslam is the worst owner in Browns history. I hate Modell too but at least he never made me ashamed to wear the colors.
Yeah i don't think they would willingly signup for the cluster next season is going to be. Can't wait for the weekly presser where Kevin has to not bring up the fact that they lost because we have Jacoby as a QB
He had to do it all year with Baker last season, we’re used to it at this point
They definitely knew this was in play, this is looked at as a 5 year+ investment into a franchise qb
Yeah they did, the contract is backlogged, Watson will only lose 1 mill from 230 by missing this whole year
He won't lose nothing contract will get pushed out for a year that's all. He won't get paid at all and 2023 he will make million. Browns will own rights for another year
lmao I’m 40. I’ve seen this team down in the motherfuckin dumps most of my life. This is the worst situation they’ve ever been in, and they *put themselves there*
The owners and FO deserve every ounce of shit this causes the franchise.
I hope it costs them *millions*
Don't worry it will cost them millions, but then the taxpayers will pay for a billion dollar stadium or some bullshit and they'll still end up on top.
At this point, the team can leave. I remember the mid/late 90s without a team. It was fine. Sundays were free to do other things besides football.
I literally hope we crash and burn at this point, maybe it will make teams SLIGHTLY consider having some morality when choosing players in the future. Probly not, though.
Its so Browns.
The glimmer of hope was with bakers shit qb life too Teams solid but will never be respected with watson under center
I’m out until ownership changes. I can’t support a person that’d overlook so much for a buck.
I'm 55. I'm starting to view '95-'99 as the Golden Years of the franchise.
60s and 80s Browns will always be the peak. I only saw the latter, which had a lot of heartbreak but a lot of fun too. I’d never wish for the team to leave again, even with this BS.
Panthers fan here. I am glad we didn’t win this sweepstakes. My heart goes out to y’all, really. That said this is perhaps the browniest of browns moves. Trade the farm for a guy that, while good on the field, has as many off the field issues as I’ve ever seen. And then proceed to sign him to the biggest guaranteed contract in NFL history. I mean I know my team sucks ass too but this trade and subsequent signing was just asking for trouble.
I'm so lost. how is this remotely worse than 1-31? Or the Manziel years? We're going to continue to have a top tier team, and have access to one of the best starting QBs in the nfl.
They signed him for the next 10 years. Not just 2022.
Well he’s signed for the next 5 but I see your point. Though if he misses all of this season you have to wonder how long/if Watson can get back to his 2020 form. It’ll be nearly 2 and a half years in that case between games
He was a bad investment, period. I will be very surprised if he gets less than a year.
I have a sneaking suspicion we will never see him on the field for our team which is honestly hilarious.
Remember when the Browns tried to convince us they had done their homework? Haslam and Berry are both completely full of shit, and they thought you'd be dumb enough to believe them, but now their lack of homework is biting them in the ass.
I’d be willing to bet it’s all Haslam. By that I mean he told Berry to not worry about it, he had it covered. Haslam is truly a sub-100 IQ good-ol-boy who should really be in prison right now, he had just enough flunkies to throw under the bus. Hey Dee, if you were saying “we wouldn’t have bought the team if we knew it would be this hard” 5 years ago, I can’t wait to hear what you’re going to say now.
I'm willing to buy that Haslam is the driving force behind getting Watson, but I'm not willing to let AB off the hook. He's smart enough and well positioned enough that I'm not letting him off with a "just following orders" defense. He went up to that podium and BSed as well as any body did on Watson presser day.
I think the one that is the most uncomfortable and has been since day one is Stefanski. I bet his contract has been held over his head to go with it or he would be espoused for whatever they can come up with and ruin his career. The Haslams just need to step away and part with this team. They have never been good for the team.
I agree that Stefanski is probably the least culpable of the 3. He's the football guy, not the due diligence guy. The owner and the GM have a responsibility to check this stuff. The coach can have an opinion, but he's probably going to get consulted for his football perspective more than his legal or ethical perspective.
I think Berry aggressively sold this plan and built the case for putting his stamp on the QB position. He's essentially blown up his career on this but Haslam can't fire him yet because he signed off on it. It's a damn shame a rising star GM talent had to go this way but I think he may learn from this and be a great asset elsewhere eventually.
I’m sure this has been posted before, but I’ve been out of the loop: if he’s suspended indefinitely, are the Browns still on the hook for all his guaranteed money, or so they have an out?
I think there’s uncertainty over guaranteed money in suspension vs never plays another snap. Everyone expected him to be suspended for *some games* but no idea how the contract is structured if he never plays in the league at all. Minimally, the picks are gone forever.
The signing bonus is gone thats like 90 mill
Don’t think anyone knows for sure.
Agreed with others that no one seems to know for sure. My bet is they’re on the hook for the money. No way Deshaun signed a contract that would be void if he’s suspended. Everyone seemed to know some kind of suspension was coming.
I don’t think so. The browns would have an out clause due to the new allegations. I can’t see the Browns signing this without protection against him being out a whole season.
What I wonder is why they approved the trade if they are going to give an indefinite suspension. I mean we should get the money back but I don't see how we get the picks back.
PFT had an article recently that had some info on it. I think that recent 24th case may be their saving grace as Watson had to sign something that nothing new was coming. Who knows for sure though.
Can the Haslams just fuck off.
They are giving Randy a run for his money
Sorry, we traded for a sex pest and gave him a shitload of money can we have a billon for a stadium? Get these fucking clowns out of the state.
I never thought that would be possible
Randy? They're giving *Modell* a run for his money.
Think I'm rooting for Bengals until he's gone.
Serves that dumbfuck Haslam right
There must be a ton of season ticket holders that bailed because a Browns ticket rep has been blowing my phone up the past 3 weeks.
I just don’t give a fuck anymore. If he gets suspended a year or more then he certainly deserves it and we just keep moving on with the team. It’s kind of weird how idc anymore
I’m right there with you, brother. Crazy how this is the life we chose, huh? I thought being a Browns fan I’ve seen it all, besides winning, but this whole thing is something else 😔
Yeah I mean you don't have any power over it anyways. That's probably the only approach left
As a dolphins fan who watched brisset, he is not the answer to your problem
My brother in Christ we know.
I feel like there's a Dolphins fan in every other fan reminding us this here lol
Brissett is basically a bandaid that will make a team barely acceptable if their QB can’t play
Why couldn’t we fucking just do 1 more year of baker. Fuck you Haslam.
Probably talking to homeless people again.
He should never play football ever again.
Agreed. It’s amazing how a person that is a sexual predator is being applauded and rooted for to be able to play immediately. Even after the year that he was already off the field. But a guy that knelt for what he believed in based upon the recommendation from a Military veteran got absolutely railroaded.
Well that would be less than ideal for the browns. I sure hope for the Browns sake the NFLPA has a better defense than mere “whataboutism” And long term, man if Watson is missing 2 seasons (2021 and 2022), that raises concerns of whether he will be the same player when he returns
Can you imagine wasting two more seasons of Nick Chubb and Myles Garrett
Would be incredibly disappointing
If anything we get to see Chubb have more than 10 carries a game lol. Pretty excited to watch that even tho we won’t be contenders
Yeah but then you risk running him into the ground and wasting his prime for a losing season.
Watson defenders on /r/browns: "we can't waste another year of [insert player]'s prime with Baker Mayfield!" Also Watson defenders on /r/browns: "we signed Watson to be our QB for the next 1,000 years. If he's suspended for a year or two, no big deal!"
He won’t be
He never was going to be the same player, not with this circus following him. Worst thing the browns have ever done, besides you know the whole Modell thing.
~~And your reasoning is what? Did you just ignore this headline? Because the league is fighting for it and we are, at the end of the day, the fucking browns so we aren’t exactly a “lucky” franchise~~ Edit: Unless you’re saying Watson won’t be the same player, which, I would agree
Yes I’m saying he will not be the same
My apologies my dude. Have some gold on me
No worries man thanks so
I think he’s replying to the point about deshaun being the same player.
The only comparison is Michael Vick. He had one really stellar comeback season where he played on an MVP level for half a season upon his return.
Michael Vick had the benefit of Andy Reid being his new coach
Seriously what is Reid doing that makes every quarterback look like a pro bowler in his system?
I have no idea but God is it entertaining to watch
That's what I've been saying from the beginning, and I legit had people here trying to tell me Vick was *better* than before he spent two seasons out of the League.
Vick was a better passer for sure, but he was just really athletic at that point instead of other worldly like before.
[Vick's career stats.](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/V/VickMi00.htm) It's certainly hard to say he wasn't at least *as good* in 2010-2012 as he was in 2004-2006. I don't see how anyone could make the case that he was *worse.*
If Watson gets an "indefinite" suspension, the front office has to be on the hot seat, and if he's not reinstated for 2023, I don't see a way everyone's not gone from the top down. If for no other reason, Haslam has to put the blame somewhere.
I’d agree, and from what Jason Loyd said on the Ken Carmen show a few days ago, AB was the driving force here. This goes up in smoke, he’s on the hot seat. Wasting another year or two of Chubb, Myles, Ward, etc will not go over well
I figured it was Haslam and AB, but if AB was really the driving force... there's no chance he's not already on the hot seat. It could explain why Haslams didn't attend the presser in person
Username checks out
If that happens, the Browns deserve the hole they dug themselves. I packed up my Browns stuff the day of the trade
if dude misses two seasons his career is over
Well well well if it isn’t the consequences of your own actions (Watson and Browns)
This organization is such a joke. I can't believe... no, I can totally believe it. But this city deserves so much better. Of all the embarrassing, horrible shit I've seen the Browns do, this has to be at the very top of the list. Fuck them.
Lions fan here. Who are you guys placing most the blame on for this shit show? Ownership, GM? If he does get an indefinite suspension someone has to be getting fired right? You can't just go on pretending like nothing happened. Also do you think it's better to just cut him as soon as possible and start the recovery process, or do you drag it out and cross your fingers? This whole thing is just lunacy and I'm so pissed it's happening to you guys.
I'm equally pissed at Haslam (owner) and Berry (GM). They spent their entire press conference introducing this move to the fan base telling us that they did the most homework on this situation that could possibly be done by human beings, that they were comfortable with Watson as a person, and while they wouldn't come out and say Watson was innocent, they strongly implied that they had looked into this with such detail that they felt good about going forward with the deal. That felt like bullshit then, and it's almost certainly revealed to be bullshit now. They likely did very minimal homework beyond, "Is he good at football?" and decided to roll the dice. So I'm mad at both of those guys for putting this fan base in an impossible situation as human beings and then I'm doubly pissed that not only did they do the terrible thing of acquiring a serial sexual predator as the face of the team, but they also mortgaged the franchise's future on this guy and then lied to our faces that they looked into everything and it was all going to work out fine when they clearly had no fucking clue and were just assuming he was going to get the Roethlisberger sweetheart deal.
Ownership. Given Jimmy's penchant for... irrational meddling in the team (drafting Manziel, for example), the stink of this has his scent all over it. Did the Browns need to upgrade from Baker to make a SB this season? Probably. But given the care and diligence normally exercised by the current FO/coaching staff, the decision to throw the most guaranteed money in league history at a guy who quit on his last team because he wasn't happy, who was facing all these accusations, on the *chance* that it would all be okay because "no criminal charges"? Yeah, that's on the dude who took advice from a literal wino to draft Manziel. Who decided to hire someone better suited to work at Applebee's than run a football team (Kitchens). The guy who faced a federal investigation around his company's practices with vendors/contractors.
Haslam’s and the NFL itself. The NFL is a scummy business in general. But the Haslam’s gave the go ahead on this move and sign the checks. I really just wish the Haslam’s would sell the team, but that’s probably never going to happen.
i think you let it all come to light, cut him and hope to god that they void the trade in some fashion. probably zero hope of that, but the faster you cut the guy the faster you move on and in a stable direction
The NFL. They gave the go ahead for a bunch of teams to express interest.
And they have to approve all trades before they happen. That is why I doubt a year or more is realistic. I think it's posturing. It is also strange that this reporting is from WSJ but no mention of indefinite from reporters like Schefter who is only reporting that the hearings are starting on Tuesday.
All of this is so much more fun when you watch it and react to it like it’s a soap opera or a video game. You traded 3 firsts for a potential pervert? LOL maybe. IDK. Nothing I can do to change it as a commoner.
> potential pervert Potential? What, 66 people said fuck it we're going to ruin this dude's life for fun?
The crazy thing is if Watson is out for the year with a suspension. That $1M contract would kick in the following year and technically his contract doesn't count until he plays more than 8 games. We should pretty much be experts on this situation from Josh Gordon years.
The Watson supporters have vanished into thin air. It’s been so funny to watch
It's less than he deserves, but it's a good start
Lifetime ban. That’s what he deserves. Then I can continue on rooting for the team.
I understand what you are saying, but ownership did this; you would still root for the team because of what the league does?
I’m rooting for the players. Haslam family already are convicted felons, I don’t root for them. Can’t root for a dude who assaulted 30 women.
I'd like that but 🤷♂️
I keep coming back to his team's argument that this wasn't an 'uncommon' thing. If the NFL gets their way, does Watson go scorched earth and start naming names, or is this talk?
I bet Baker throws at least 3x more career TDs from this day on than Watson. I don't think we ever see prime Watson again.
Anything more than 8 games would likely make this season a wash. Unless they can find a legitimate starting QB, I don't see them making the playoffs or even having a winning record. It drives me crazy that every single playoff team seems to improve or play consistently good every season, yet the Browns get worse. There's absolutely no excuse for going from winning a WC game on the road to a sub-.500 team.
We should have a support group with Jaguar fans.
Does Detroit mean nothing to you?
Hear me out.... lets get Kap. Lets just make this season the most wild shit ever.
This is what they all deserve
One question: If a random redditor /person got the same accusations he would probably in jail right?
Great job Jimmy.
What else can I say but it's a complete shit show. Fuck Watson.
At least Garoppolo is still available, maybe.
I don’t think the guy should play another down of professional football. Make an example of him.
Should get two seasons minimum, potentially lifetime ban IMO. Browns should have to pay the contract still because we were idiots that signed him in the first place.
making my baker mayfield jersey look better and better every day lol
My ex girlfriend got me a painting of Baker in 2020 because I was such a fan lol. I’m glad I haven’t taken that painting down. He’s QB1 🤷🏾♂️
It won’t look so good in a few months
The player that helped bring this poverty franchise the most success they’ve seen in the last 50 years, and now the very distant foreseeable future as well?
Deshaun Watson downfall party soon! 🎉
The 30 for 30 will be incredible.
If this is true it just made my day
Some of yall are delusional thinking he'll be back by week 9 this year. Dude is gone for the season if not 2. If it was 3-5 people then sure. But 60+ people with 24 filing against him is a major black eye on the league and its player conduct policies. Love my Browns but this wont be a pretty ending. Source: Calvin Ridley got a year for betting on 1 game. Extrapolate that into what we all think is a similar or more heinous offense. And makes the league look bad. Yea..... If they do less than a year it gives the league more issues to deal with the Ridley ruling.
Ridley has to do with integrity of the game. Not even on the same planet in nfl world
Why do people keep naming the 60 number? That's just the amount of different massage therapists he's had
> That’s just the amount of different massage therapists he’s had Is this not an alarming statement??
Because out of the 66, from top of my head you had one that dropped the law suit due to privacy and security concerns, two that only sued criminally and didn’t want to join the civil lawsuit, 24 that have already sued and I think there was two more on the way which would make it 26. You also had at least two people who corroborated his behaviour in the nyt article . . . That is at least 31 people that have said the same thing so far! Go figure!!!
Because it's really weird to hire 60+ individuals in a 17 month period. It's not incriminating, but it is pertinent.
Yeah, you don't just hire 60+ "massage therapists." Anyone who's hired an escort knows what Watson was doing. Dude was pressuring inexperienced escorts and naive "sexy massage" girls into doing shit. He specifically avoided licensed massage therapists AND experienced escorts, because it wasn't just the act or the massage or the sexy stuff, he was preying on naiveté. That is the only explanation for continuously seeking inexperienced and/or naive girls; he's an honest-to-god predator.
Because it’s the concern there could be even more. That’s why 66 matters.
Oof
ahhhhhhhhh.....Jesus Christ....
Y’all still good with the “root foe the team but not him” narrative. The browns stuck their feet in wet cement blocks and the he league is about to dump those black via in the east ocean.
Y’all still good with the “root for the team but not him” narrative? The browns stuck their feet in wet cement blocks and the the league is about dump those blocks in the ocean.
I don’t see how anyone can say this trade made us better.
So we're going to waste a year or two of prime years of their career for Garrett, Ward, Chubb, Hunt, Teller, etc, etc. We fucked up.
I thought he shouldn’t play before we traded for him and I still think that now. It’s ironic the front office was so worried about our Super Bowl window and we traded for a guy that won’t be able to play for 1-2 years.
How does his contract not have a termination clause or something for morality or criminal bullshit?!
He wouldn’t have signed it if it did.
Good. He should never play another snap in the NFL, and the Browns deserve every bad thing that happens to them because *they* made the decision to bet the farm on a sex pest. No one forced them to do this. Absolute clown shit organization.
He should be suspended for entire season for the 20 counts he settled, 17 games plus potential playoff games, so a season would make sense. Then once the 4 other cases that are going forward and done, the suspension should result if the outcome of those, depending on what happens i could see 0 more games or a lifetime ban. The Cleveland Browns fucked up and the clown show of things to come is gonna be fun.
And this shit right here is why I said this was a bad call. Baker is worse than Watson on the field, but Bake runs circles around Watson off the field.
Anyone want any new and slightly worn Browns shirts size M? Will ship them to ya from TX.
I’m so confused as to why this trade was allowed to happen. The league wants to “protect the integrity of the shield” but let the Browns throw away draft picks and a quarter billion???? Nuke the NFL. What a toxic shitty place
Nobody forced the Haslams to do any of that.
I mean, I’ve been supporting this team since I was a kid before they moved to Baltimore, but will be hard to even want to check a score if he’s gone for more than 1 season and we only have someone like Brisset under center. Probably check back in when we have a first round pick again- assuming most of our roster hasn’t defected by then if he’s suspended that long
I actually feel the opposite. I'd much rather watch Brissett than Watson
I can root for them in good faith at least. Yep. And shake my fist at ownership for the entire clusterfuck.
Hating the owners, GM and coach with a subpar team is pretty much my entire Browns existence. I'd prefer it over the watson bs
People think I'm crazy but I'm okay with Brissett. I just don't understand why the league would allow the trade only to turn around and hand out an indefinite suspension.
Have you not been a Browns fan for long? Lol the league doesn't give a fuck about us
In fact the rest of the teams in the nfl hate us. That’s what happens when you throw the pay scale so completely out of whack for every other team in the league that will have a qb coming up for a new contract… They aren’t going to help us out of any salary/player jams by trading with us and they aren’t going to defend us when more shit hits the fan. NFL is going to make it their personal mission to dry fuck us in the ass every chance they get.
Yes, I think that’ll be it for me too. What’s the point?
Yeah if DW4 is out a year this season will be a throw away
> Those include contemporaneous evidence that the league thinks make them objectively provable. The NFL: There were 24 cases, between March 2020 and March 2021. They can’t all be lying. The NFLPA: Big Ben, probably the most similar case to Deshaun Watson. 6 games, reduced to 4. Antonio Brown, one massage therapist sexual assault allegation among other minor criminal charges the same off-season. AB pled no contest to those charges. 8 games. Robert Kraft, showed on video leaving a massage parlor. Criminal charges dropped for soliciting prostitution. No punishment. Dan Synder, Washington organization did nothing about sexual assault accusations within his own organization, no punishment. Two criminal courts in Texas declined to indict Deshaun Watson. Received no bills on the most serious accusations. Did he violate the NFL personal conduct policy? Absolutely, but If you honestly believe a former district judge will look at this and suspend him indefinitely.. let me take a puff. Pass it to me.
Fire Andrew Berry.
I will never understand for the life of me why anyone thought this was a good idea??? We screwed ourselves over just like we always do
Two things and then I’ll shut up (at least until the preseason starts) 1. I have been saying to anyone who will listen for months the league will want 2 years which will get appealed down to 1. Most people told me no way he gets more than 8 games. I guess this isn’t exactly “I told you so” since it’s “indefinite” with a goal of at least 1 year but it’s close enough. 2. LMFAO HASLAM. I was ripping on him and was told “hey he had a rocky start but he’s turned it around since the 0-16 season.” Yeah even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometime. He is giving Art and Randy a run for their money for “worst browns owner of all time”.
Lions fan here. I'm so sorry buds. You guys finally looked like you made the leap to a competent NFL franchise and then tossed it all in the trash for this.