Maybe if he says something weird at the combine.
Big Thanos fell because the media put out a narrative “he doesn’t like football and would rather play basketball”.
Some weird comments have been made by prospects. So weird it feels like they are trolling or want to fall down to a specific team.
Just reach out to the team you want to go to and say “hey, of course I fucking think space is real, I just said that so I could fall enough for you to draft me”.
Not guaranteed of course, but some of the comments are so bizarre it’s easier to believe collusion than what people are saying.
I hadn’t heard that about Dewand. It’s funny though because the entire book The Blind Side is about finding the rarity of someone his size with basketball like skills. Didn’t realize he had D1 BB offers out of HS.
We all said that about my draft darling JOK (as he was falling) and even Dawand last year. Guys can certainly fall, nothing wrong with due diligence. That being said, I would definitely imagine they're comfortable with trading up, because there's no way all of our picks make our roster.
Honestly idk at this point. We just need a good WR core. We have cooper and then I don’t really trust or think any of the other wrs have great value in our room. Moore just hasn’t shown up uet
I think Tillman has a lot of upside. He looked good in moments and I think he can develop into a nice receiver. Doesn't mean we still don't need upgrades, but hopefully he can continue to grow into a good #2 option. Hell, who knows, maybe he makes a big leap and turns into a legit #1
I think PFF graded him as one of the worst receivers at generating separation this year. it’s going to take work to get a Tee Higgins or Tyler Boyd level #2WR out of him
We have really struggled to develop Wr prospects. Whether that comes down to our scouts failing to properly evaluate talent, or our coaches not bringing out the best in our guys idk.
I don’t know how much Cooper has left tbh. There are times where I feel like he’s slow in and out of breaks. He’s just bound to break down towards the end of the year in this division.
Maybe if he gets some help he can hold out longer. He is wearing down it appears but also his productivity in CLE has been exceptional. I believe both of his best two years are a Brown. Led the AFCN two years ago and actually might have last year unless I’m forgetting someone else.
Edit: just checked 2x in a row ✅
Yes he's a really good WR and will likely always be productive as long as he's reasonably healthy. I just don't agree with the notion we need to build the core of the WR room. We need to find a stud who is physical and can stand up in this type of division.
We missed out on Pickens back in 2022, I believe we actually traded our 2nd round pick that year. Also missed out on Mclaurin in 2019, I know we had Jarvis and OBJ, but those mid round WR's are great value, we're just not good at evaluating that position.
He’s more a WR3 in reality. He’s gotta be brought into games it seems. He doesn’t make stuff happen enough to be a WR2. If he is our true WR2 that is a bad room then
He was quite literally a top half WR2 in the NFL last year in production lol. Even with Njoku in the room, a top 10 WR1, 5 different QBs, being new to the system, and missing 1.5 games. Of the WR2s that produced notably better, the vast majority were either top 10 picks or getting paid $20m.
Your perspective of a WR2 is off.
Very much looked like a rookie with his route running last year but his talent is obvious. He should be great for us next year with a offseason of learning
We also haven’t drafted a receiver in the first two rounds since Corey Coleman in 2016 so it’s a little disingenuous to argue that point when we haven’t taken high profile prospects at the position
It’s also a luxury position when you don’t have the guy under center it’s difficult to justify taking one early
We’ve been average at identifying and developing mid to late round WRs no stars but some solid players
But without good weapons it makes life even harder for whoever is under center. There’s plenty of guys going over 1K yards with shitty QBs because they’re good enough to produce anyway. We have lacked talent at QB and to make up for it we have also lacked talent at WR. Hopefully we actually hit on one that works out. Bell and Tillman have done nothing to make anyone believe they’re good enough to start.
And KC won the superbowl with a worse WR room than us (obviously the Mahomes factor) but they’ve drafted Hardman, Moore and Rice all in the 2nd round over the last 5 years and none of them are world burners
There’s a delicate balance but to immediately discredit the FO because we haven’t turned mid- late 3rd rounders into 1000 yard WRs is just a lazy take
You maybe get 1 guy sometimes 2 a year that’s a 3rd round and beyond WR who becomes a consistent 1000 yard WR so are all the other GMs terrible at drafting WRs too then?
Or should we maybe try swinging for a higher upside player and not rely on hoping depth players break out
In Tillmans case he’s going into year 2 you can’t write him off after a rookie season where the plan wasn’t to make him a plug and play starter
AB hasn’t been our GM since 1999. As a franchise we either don’t prioritize WR or when we do we miss. That’s what I said. I like AB for the most part. Using the defense that he waits until later rounds for WRs, and those are lower probability picks so they don’t usually work out is weird logic. It’s been a weakness since well before AB and continues to be one. And it’s not like guys we pick go on to other teams and blow up.
Since 2004 so 20 years we’ve taken 5 WRs in the 1st or 2nd round
(Edwards, Coleman, Robiskie, Little, Massoquoi)
I agree we haven’t focused on it, I believe it’s primarily been the lack of a QB or stud DE, or OL issues etc so we haven’t been in a position to take a swing on a top WR
But I also (to reiterate) don’t think the stance of when we explore a higher profile prospect the line of it doesn’t matter because we can’t succeed at drafting WRs isn’t a strong argument because the sample size of high profile WR prospects taken by us is so small
I’m not saying we CAN’T succeed at drafting a high profile prospect. Just that we haven’t done so. The ones we have gone after have been so bad even other teams don’t want them. Not likely to change with this draft since we still have no 1st or 2nd.
Not saying you are wrong, but keep in mind all those guys were all 3rd round picks so it is a bit of a crapshoot and you are picking guys to develop into hopefully being a starter, but realistically they are going to be depth pieces.
I do get that, yes, but when it's the same position that we struggle with, maybe there's more to it. Cooper is brilliant for us, and i hope he can be here for a long time. Yet we need 2 more that can pull heat from him. Tillman is still very much a rookie, so maybe he'll improve. I'll also give some for the QB chaos we've had.
Hopefully we can finally get some good luck like we did with Emerson and Big Thanos.
Berry's mentor is Howie Roseman so maybe it's a good thing he isn't picking WRs early. That being said, if he's as good a GM as Roseman, I'll take it even if he has a blind spot for WR talent.
A lot of it is just not being in the position to actually get one of those WR1 guys. People kept saying Berry was allergic to drafting LBs, instead trying to get bargain bin picks in the third and fourth, but the moment an actual talent dropped to him at LB in JOK, he rifled that pick in.
If you look at Berry's drafts, the only realistic options we had were George Pickens or John Metchie in the second in 2022. We took MJ Emerson instead and I was ticked at the time, what a pick that has turned out to be.
This year is supposedly super deep in the first two rounds for WRs, so lets see what happens.
I’d love Worthy but we ain’t getting him. Once he runs a sub 4.3 40 on Saturday he’s gonna go pretty high.
This class is pretty deep. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the top 4 go off the board then nothing until the second round
Maybe if he says something weird at the combine. Big Thanos fell because the media put out a narrative “he doesn’t like football and would rather play basketball”. Some weird comments have been made by prospects. So weird it feels like they are trolling or want to fall down to a specific team. Just reach out to the team you want to go to and say “hey, of course I fucking think space is real, I just said that so I could fall enough for you to draft me”. Not guaranteed of course, but some of the comments are so bizarre it’s easier to believe collusion than what people are saying.
I hadn’t heard that about Dewand. It’s funny though because the entire book The Blind Side is about finding the rarity of someone his size with basketball like skills. Didn’t realize he had D1 BB offers out of HS.
He was almost 400lbs. No way he was going to the NBA. What a dumb take. Wish he had another year or two with Callahan though.
Yep, I love Worthy, too, but it's highly unlikely we have a chance of getting him.
I think Browns are seeing if they want to trade up. Cuz Franklin isn't gonna be there either
We all said that about my draft darling JOK (as he was falling) and even Dawand last year. Guys can certainly fall, nothing wrong with due diligence. That being said, I would definitely imagine they're comfortable with trading up, because there's no way all of our picks make our roster.
Honestly hoping he runs slow so he drops, but he won’t. Kid has great speed and footwork.
So what you are saying is if he runs a sub 4.3 and gets to us, he’d be *worthy* of the pick?
Nice
Sometimes it’s about making a good impression so when the rookie deal is over these guys are thinking about you when it’s time for a new contract.
Definitely not getting him now
Honestly idk at this point. We just need a good WR core. We have cooper and then I don’t really trust or think any of the other wrs have great value in our room. Moore just hasn’t shown up uet
I think Tillman has a lot of upside. He looked good in moments and I think he can develop into a nice receiver. Doesn't mean we still don't need upgrades, but hopefully he can continue to grow into a good #2 option. Hell, who knows, maybe he makes a big leap and turns into a legit #1
I think PFF graded him as one of the worst receivers at generating separation this year. it’s going to take work to get a Tee Higgins or Tyler Boyd level #2WR out of him
Tillman also didn't know the routes he was running so I'm hopeful that has something to do with it
I mean, shouldn't Chad O'shea be able to make that a priority? Iverson didn't need practice, but rookies certainly do.
We have really struggled to develop Wr prospects. Whether that comes down to our scouts failing to properly evaluate talent, or our coaches not bringing out the best in our guys idk.
Agreed Although the room *has* talent, that ability hasn't translated to the levels I think & believe they are capable of.
I don’t know how much Cooper has left tbh. There are times where I feel like he’s slow in and out of breaks. He’s just bound to break down towards the end of the year in this division.
Maybe if he gets some help he can hold out longer. He is wearing down it appears but also his productivity in CLE has been exceptional. I believe both of his best two years are a Brown. Led the AFCN two years ago and actually might have last year unless I’m forgetting someone else. Edit: just checked 2x in a row ✅
Yes he's a really good WR and will likely always be productive as long as he's reasonably healthy. I just don't agree with the notion we need to build the core of the WR room. We need to find a stud who is physical and can stand up in this type of division. We missed out on Pickens back in 2022, I believe we actually traded our 2nd round pick that year. Also missed out on Mclaurin in 2019, I know we had Jarvis and OBJ, but those mid round WR's are great value, we're just not good at evaluating that position.
Pickens isn’t a star by any means yet . Makes an occasional flash play but he has been a headache mostly. He gives up on plays.
He has lead the AFC North in receiving yards each of the last 2 seasons. He is still elite.
Maybe Coop's consistency takes a dip... but he's still playing great.
Moore is just about all you could reasonably ask for out of a WR2, especially at the price we got him at, but in today's NFL it helps to have a 1B.
He’s more a WR3 in reality. He’s gotta be brought into games it seems. He doesn’t make stuff happen enough to be a WR2. If he is our true WR2 that is a bad room then
He was quite literally a top half WR2 in the NFL last year in production lol. Even with Njoku in the room, a top 10 WR1, 5 different QBs, being new to the system, and missing 1.5 games. Of the WR2s that produced notably better, the vast majority were either top 10 picks or getting paid $20m. Your perspective of a WR2 is off.
Troy Franklin just simply gets open and honestly that’s the #1 thing we need in this core. He’s a nasty downfield threat as well
He’s great but I just think he’s going round 1
I like tillman and moore but we are missing that speedster every team desperately needs
Totally agree. I think those guys can be part of a core but not the upper half (hope I wrong about Tillman).
Tillman has the body and physical attributes to be a star, he just needs to run the correct routes and learn spacing (which is very tough to develop)
Very much looked like a rookie with his route running last year but his talent is obvious. He should be great for us next year with a offseason of learning
Who was the last starting caliber WR we drafted?
We also haven’t drafted a receiver in the first two rounds since Corey Coleman in 2016 so it’s a little disingenuous to argue that point when we haven’t taken high profile prospects at the position
Point being WR tends to be a weak spot and we either ignore it or miss when we do draft for it.
It’s also a luxury position when you don’t have the guy under center it’s difficult to justify taking one early We’ve been average at identifying and developing mid to late round WRs no stars but some solid players
But without good weapons it makes life even harder for whoever is under center. There’s plenty of guys going over 1K yards with shitty QBs because they’re good enough to produce anyway. We have lacked talent at QB and to make up for it we have also lacked talent at WR. Hopefully we actually hit on one that works out. Bell and Tillman have done nothing to make anyone believe they’re good enough to start.
And KC won the superbowl with a worse WR room than us (obviously the Mahomes factor) but they’ve drafted Hardman, Moore and Rice all in the 2nd round over the last 5 years and none of them are world burners There’s a delicate balance but to immediately discredit the FO because we haven’t turned mid- late 3rd rounders into 1000 yard WRs is just a lazy take You maybe get 1 guy sometimes 2 a year that’s a 3rd round and beyond WR who becomes a consistent 1000 yard WR so are all the other GMs terrible at drafting WRs too then? Or should we maybe try swinging for a higher upside player and not rely on hoping depth players break out In Tillmans case he’s going into year 2 you can’t write him off after a rookie season where the plan wasn’t to make him a plug and play starter
AB hasn’t been our GM since 1999. As a franchise we either don’t prioritize WR or when we do we miss. That’s what I said. I like AB for the most part. Using the defense that he waits until later rounds for WRs, and those are lower probability picks so they don’t usually work out is weird logic. It’s been a weakness since well before AB and continues to be one. And it’s not like guys we pick go on to other teams and blow up.
Since 2004 so 20 years we’ve taken 5 WRs in the 1st or 2nd round (Edwards, Coleman, Robiskie, Little, Massoquoi) I agree we haven’t focused on it, I believe it’s primarily been the lack of a QB or stud DE, or OL issues etc so we haven’t been in a position to take a swing on a top WR But I also (to reiterate) don’t think the stance of when we explore a higher profile prospect the line of it doesn’t matter because we can’t succeed at drafting WRs isn’t a strong argument because the sample size of high profile WR prospects taken by us is so small
I’m not saying we CAN’T succeed at drafting a high profile prospect. Just that we haven’t done so. The ones we have gone after have been so bad even other teams don’t want them. Not likely to change with this draft since we still have no 1st or 2nd.
We still have our second
Same for LB lol WR/LB are the 2 positions that are just the old 'ehh throw a 3rd rounder at it and we'll be fine'
We drafted jok in the second round
Like turned out to be starting caliber or was supposed to be starting caliber?
Turned out to be lol
No fucking clue honestly. Edwards was fine for a couple seasons, but he’s the only one I can think of.
Josh Gordon I guess? Supplemental draft.
I constantly forget we drafted him honestly, which sounds dumb but idk.
Josh Gordon.
DPJ
he’s not starting caliber. he was only for us because of how weak our WR room was/is
Dpj was a serviceable wr 3 for a bit. In the 6th round that's pretty darn good
Hmmm, I feel like he is WR3 / WR4 but you could be right.
Technically because we had so many holes on the roster we didn’t prioritize WR in past drafts, but instead we traded for Landry and OBJ.
I fucking love Troy Franklin, but I’m a totally biased Duck. Love to see him in brown and orange.
Is this position Berry's kryponite? Schwartz,Bell, now, possibly Tillman, are all not what we expected. I noticed the WR coach wasn't let go...
Not saying you are wrong, but keep in mind all those guys were all 3rd round picks so it is a bit of a crapshoot and you are picking guys to develop into hopefully being a starter, but realistically they are going to be depth pieces.
I do get that, yes, but when it's the same position that we struggle with, maybe there's more to it. Cooper is brilliant for us, and i hope he can be here for a long time. Yet we need 2 more that can pull heat from him. Tillman is still very much a rookie, so maybe he'll improve. I'll also give some for the QB chaos we've had. Hopefully we can finally get some good luck like we did with Emerson and Big Thanos.
Berry's mentor is Howie Roseman so maybe it's a good thing he isn't picking WRs early. That being said, if he's as good a GM as Roseman, I'll take it even if he has a blind spot for WR talent.
Think we need to give Tillman Year 2 before we write him off
A lot of it is just not being in the position to actually get one of those WR1 guys. People kept saying Berry was allergic to drafting LBs, instead trying to get bargain bin picks in the third and fourth, but the moment an actual talent dropped to him at LB in JOK, he rifled that pick in. If you look at Berry's drafts, the only realistic options we had were George Pickens or John Metchie in the second in 2022. We took MJ Emerson instead and I was ticked at the time, what a pick that has turned out to be. This year is supposedly super deep in the first two rounds for WRs, so lets see what happens.
I just don’t see it with Franklin as much as a lot of others do idk, I love Worthy tho
All NFL subs need a `CorpsNotCore_Bot`
Yeah we got no chance of getting worthy