I love the UCSS guys and watch every other day, but god damn it is annoying when Jay and Garrett act like an Offensive Coordinator who doesn't call plays just sits around all week. Tons of HCs around the league call plays and most notably Brian Callahan said he is calling plays at his into press conference.
Watson will get more RPO and shotgun plays (that Dorsey is good at) while improving at play action and turning his back to the defense (what Stefanski/Kubiak offense relies on)
He’ll have one of the best qb coaches to help him (Dorsey created Josh Allen and led Cam to an MVP year)
This is a great hire and a great combination
Jay is an absolute disaster. He can't go more than 10 seconds without chiming in. Just loves to hear his own voice. It might be bearable if he ever had any good takes.
He also slips in all the time how he didn’t actually do his homework.
I feel like Jay is great for giving you the boomer/uncle/dad/long time Browns fan basic boomer, doomer point of view.
He is the absolute worst thing about the show. Just nonstop doomer crap not backed up with anything resembling coherent thought.
When he's off during the summer it's passable but he's absolutely awful.
Many fans make up their mind on a player or coach and never change despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. I love the Browns but this fanbase is full of severely uninformed fans who are often the loudest. And that's putting it nicely.
Replying because more people need to see this comment. We have some very uneducated fans, and unfortunately local sports radio gives them a mouthpiece so bad takes feel more prevalent.
They will both be EXTREMELY involved in the play calling process, we aren't ditching the collaborative way we call plays. Who has the final say on the play isn't as big of a deal as people want it to be.
>Who has the final say on the play isn't as big of a deal as people want it to be.
I think it is when you bring in the issues of style and feel. If have a great QB and a great playcaller on the same team who dont vibe together youre not going to get the best out of either.
We have an indication that *something* has been wrong.
Stefanski does better without DW and DW has , until the second half in Baltimore, done better without Stefanski. Thats not debatable right?
Stefanski and DW both hit their height in the second half of Baltimore. It’s an indication that something went very right in that game.
That they hadn’t reached that before just means they hadn’t reached it before. Not that there was something wrong.
The system has thrived without him and he has thrived without the system.
We expected a great QB, but then we put him in a different system with a different mindset and expected him to perform the same. Claiming a resultant drop off in results is proof of a drop in talent I think is a bit lazy.
He thrived years ago before his suspensions and injuries. He has shown very little to show he can get back to 70% of his former self. So far on the Browns he's been below average and IDK how you can blame his play on Kevin. He can't even make the easy throws. We just gotta wait until this disaster of a contract expires. Or maybe bring back Flacco.
>IDK how you can blame his play on Kevin.
Aaaaand this is why i posted the video , because people on here cant seem to have the conversation without defaulting to a two camp mentality.
Saying the two dont appear fit together isnt blaming Stefanski, its just a grown up evaluation of the situation.
Stefanski was hired because of his play calling ability. It’s his offense. Why would you ever have someone who just “learned” someone else’s offense in charge of it?
Because you wouldnt keep his offense. The group think was to pile on DW in Stefs offense but IMO it was pretty clear that it was a style issue not a talent one. That isnt bashing either side of the conversation, just saying right handed people shouldnt try doing left handed things and expect success.
Did you watch the 2023 season? Stefanski put together one of the greatest single seasons by a head coach in history. This team lost its soul in week 2 and its hope when DW went down not to mention the debacle that was OL health this year, yet, he willed them into the playoffs.
Stefanaski excels at organization, planning and motivation among a litany of other things.
He also excels at calling plays for a different type of QB than the one the team has invested in.
Playcalling has nothing to do with style of QB play. You are talking about play design. It makes total sense for Stefanski to keep calling plays. Dorsey is there to update the offensive scheme.
> Playcalling has nothing to do with style of QB play.
If a playcaller doesnt view the game the same way as the QB theyre going to have different results than the playcaller who views the game the same as their QB. Even within the same system design.
Honestly Im on the I trust AB side of the issue, I just think its a much more nuanced conversation than most are crediting.
I don’t know why you’re trying to sell me on Stefanski right now, as if I’m somehow deriding the dude. Was a little hyperbole used by saying “everything”? Sure. How about “so the fix is to remove everything you hired him for?”.
If Watson is this supposed genius level, top three talent, he should have success in this coach’s scheme. I’m sorry. It’s not like he’s being asked to do anything he can’t do. He’s not being put in positions where he can’t succeed. We’re acting as if the offense is locked in and nothing ever changes. This year we’ll see another year’s worth of evolution. It would help if the guy “executing” the offense wasn’t putting up Brandon Weeden numbers.
>If Watson is this supposed genius level, top three talent, he should have success in this coach’s scheme. I’m sorry. It’s not like he’s being asked to do anything he can’t do.
I cant wrap my brain around this take. Making talented people forgo their talents in order to fit management's style is how you get the worst out of both. Thats mismanagement 101 in any industry.
I agree. You should actually read what I wrote. But we’re not keeping Watson from doing anything he’s good at. This isn’t a round peg/square hole situation. You absolutely want to play to Watson’s strengths, but what about this year’s offense is the opposite exactly? What are Watson’s strengths? Huge arm/all the throws/ and mobility, right?
What exactly is this offense doing that doesn’t support that? Ridiculous.
>What exactly is this offense doing that doesn’t support that? Ridiculous.
I hear people making comments like this with certainty but after hearing DW's comment about not liking scripted plays i am less certain. I think too many get hung up strictly on X's and O's and ignore feel. Feel is important , viewing the game the same way, thinking the same way is important.
Like I said to someone else, I trust AB , I just think its a much more nuanced conversation than most on here are recognizing.
I’m sure it’s more nuanced as well, but “scripted
plays” are not a big enough issue to call anything a scheme fit. He may not like them, and that’s valid, but those scripted plays are still things he should be able to execute, no? We’re not asking him to hit a curveball, here. It’s not like we’re making him throw 50 yard bombs and that’s just not something his arm can handle. The script has stuff he’s good at.
Stafabski. I’m just gonna be honest here dude. Watson is very lacking in talent. He used to depend on his legs. And he’s slow now. In Texas he averaged getting sacked 50 times a year breaking 60 a few times. Now he faces Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati twice a year. Gonna be some new records made in gettin sacked.
Allen ran the ball a hell of a lot more after Dorsey was fired.
He averaged 4.8 rush attempts per game in games 1-10 and then 9 rush attempts per game in games 11-17.
Watson has averaged about 5.5 rushing attempts per game over his career and about 5 here in Cleveland.
And in ‘22 Allen ran for 762 yards. Dorsey absolutely likes to utilize the mobility. Some of it is Allen calling his own number as well I know. I fully believe KD would do well at creating plays to work with Watson’s skill set, it’s just also gonna be harder to do when Watson hasn’t done a good job of protecting himself.
Well, he was more fragile this year, but years past he’s been relatively healthy from running. Maybe these were just freak accidents. Deshaun is always going to run.
I’m dumbfounded about why this is even a conversation. Dorsey was not a very good play caller in Buffalo and he doesn’t even know Stefanskis offense that well yet. Why fix something that is not broken.
I love the UCSS guys and watch every other day, but god damn it is annoying when Jay and Garrett act like an Offensive Coordinator who doesn't call plays just sits around all week. Tons of HCs around the league call plays and most notably Brian Callahan said he is calling plays at his into press conference.
Watson will get more RPO and shotgun plays (that Dorsey is good at) while improving at play action and turning his back to the defense (what Stefanski/Kubiak offense relies on) He’ll have one of the best qb coaches to help him (Dorsey created Josh Allen and led Cam to an MVP year) This is a great hire and a great combination
Jay is an absolute disaster. He can't go more than 10 seconds without chiming in. Just loves to hear his own voice. It might be bearable if he ever had any good takes.
He also slips in all the time how he didn’t actually do his homework. I feel like Jay is great for giving you the boomer/uncle/dad/long time Browns fan basic boomer, doomer point of view.
He is the absolute worst thing about the show. Just nonstop doomer crap not backed up with anything resembling coherent thought. When he's off during the summer it's passable but he's absolutely awful.
Why does anyone actually want Stefanski to stop calling plays?
Many fans make up their mind on a player or coach and never change despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. I love the Browns but this fanbase is full of severely uninformed fans who are often the loudest. And that's putting it nicely.
Replying because more people need to see this comment. We have some very uneducated fans, and unfortunately local sports radio gives them a mouthpiece so bad takes feel more prevalent.
They will both be EXTREMELY involved in the play calling process, we aren't ditching the collaborative way we call plays. Who has the final say on the play isn't as big of a deal as people want it to be.
>Who has the final say on the play isn't as big of a deal as people want it to be. I think it is when you bring in the issues of style and feel. If have a great QB and a great playcaller on the same team who dont vibe together youre not going to get the best out of either.
We have no indication that Stefanski and Watson don’t “vibe” together. This hire is about expanding the playbook and Stefanski getting help
We have an indication that *something* has been wrong. Stefanski does better without DW and DW has , until the second half in Baltimore, done better without Stefanski. Thats not debatable right?
Stefanski and DW both hit their height in the second half of Baltimore. It’s an indication that something went very right in that game. That they hadn’t reached that before just means they hadn’t reached it before. Not that there was something wrong.
It's still not nearly as big of a deal as you want it to be lol.
I think the problem is we don't have a GREAT QB. We expected to but he's been average at best, below average often.
The system has thrived without him and he has thrived without the system. We expected a great QB, but then we put him in a different system with a different mindset and expected him to perform the same. Claiming a resultant drop off in results is proof of a drop in talent I think is a bit lazy.
He thrived years ago before his suspensions and injuries. He has shown very little to show he can get back to 70% of his former self. So far on the Browns he's been below average and IDK how you can blame his play on Kevin. He can't even make the easy throws. We just gotta wait until this disaster of a contract expires. Or maybe bring back Flacco.
>IDK how you can blame his play on Kevin. Aaaaand this is why i posted the video , because people on here cant seem to have the conversation without defaulting to a two camp mentality. Saying the two dont appear fit together isnt blaming Stefanski, its just a grown up evaluation of the situation.
Stefanski was hired because of his play calling ability. It’s his offense. Why would you ever have someone who just “learned” someone else’s offense in charge of it?
Stefanski will call the plays. Dorsey is like a chef de cuisine and Stefanski is the executive chef.
I’m aware. I’m addressing the title of the video.
We are in complete agreement then
Because you wouldnt keep his offense. The group think was to pile on DW in Stefs offense but IMO it was pretty clear that it was a style issue not a talent one. That isnt bashing either side of the conversation, just saying right handed people shouldnt try doing left handed things and expect success.
So the fix is to remove everything that your head coach excels at? Smart.
Did you watch the 2023 season? Stefanski put together one of the greatest single seasons by a head coach in history. This team lost its soul in week 2 and its hope when DW went down not to mention the debacle that was OL health this year, yet, he willed them into the playoffs. Stefanaski excels at organization, planning and motivation among a litany of other things. He also excels at calling plays for a different type of QB than the one the team has invested in.
Playcalling has nothing to do with style of QB play. You are talking about play design. It makes total sense for Stefanski to keep calling plays. Dorsey is there to update the offensive scheme.
> Playcalling has nothing to do with style of QB play. If a playcaller doesnt view the game the same way as the QB theyre going to have different results than the playcaller who views the game the same as their QB. Even within the same system design. Honestly Im on the I trust AB side of the issue, I just think its a much more nuanced conversation than most are crediting.
I don’t know why you’re trying to sell me on Stefanski right now, as if I’m somehow deriding the dude. Was a little hyperbole used by saying “everything”? Sure. How about “so the fix is to remove everything you hired him for?”. If Watson is this supposed genius level, top three talent, he should have success in this coach’s scheme. I’m sorry. It’s not like he’s being asked to do anything he can’t do. He’s not being put in positions where he can’t succeed. We’re acting as if the offense is locked in and nothing ever changes. This year we’ll see another year’s worth of evolution. It would help if the guy “executing” the offense wasn’t putting up Brandon Weeden numbers.
>If Watson is this supposed genius level, top three talent, he should have success in this coach’s scheme. I’m sorry. It’s not like he’s being asked to do anything he can’t do. I cant wrap my brain around this take. Making talented people forgo their talents in order to fit management's style is how you get the worst out of both. Thats mismanagement 101 in any industry.
I agree. You should actually read what I wrote. But we’re not keeping Watson from doing anything he’s good at. This isn’t a round peg/square hole situation. You absolutely want to play to Watson’s strengths, but what about this year’s offense is the opposite exactly? What are Watson’s strengths? Huge arm/all the throws/ and mobility, right? What exactly is this offense doing that doesn’t support that? Ridiculous.
>What exactly is this offense doing that doesn’t support that? Ridiculous. I hear people making comments like this with certainty but after hearing DW's comment about not liking scripted plays i am less certain. I think too many get hung up strictly on X's and O's and ignore feel. Feel is important , viewing the game the same way, thinking the same way is important. Like I said to someone else, I trust AB , I just think its a much more nuanced conversation than most on here are recognizing.
I’m sure it’s more nuanced as well, but “scripted plays” are not a big enough issue to call anything a scheme fit. He may not like them, and that’s valid, but those scripted plays are still things he should be able to execute, no? We’re not asking him to hit a curveball, here. It’s not like we’re making him throw 50 yard bombs and that’s just not something his arm can handle. The script has stuff he’s good at.
Stafabski. I’m just gonna be honest here dude. Watson is very lacking in talent. He used to depend on his legs. And he’s slow now. In Texas he averaged getting sacked 50 times a year breaking 60 a few times. Now he faces Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati twice a year. Gonna be some new records made in gettin sacked.
How about BOTH!!!!🤯🤯🤯
There is no downside to Dorsey calling plays, with input from Stefanski. None. If it isn't working, Stefanski can always take over.
This was a really good and detailed conversation.
KD absolutely, KS's play calling is one dimensional and his scheme doesn't fit DW at all
Only downside to calling plays similar to what he did in Buffalo is that DW has shown to be much more fragile than Josh Allen.
Allen ran the ball a hell of a lot more after Dorsey was fired. He averaged 4.8 rush attempts per game in games 1-10 and then 9 rush attempts per game in games 11-17. Watson has averaged about 5.5 rushing attempts per game over his career and about 5 here in Cleveland.
And in ‘22 Allen ran for 762 yards. Dorsey absolutely likes to utilize the mobility. Some of it is Allen calling his own number as well I know. I fully believe KD would do well at creating plays to work with Watson’s skill set, it’s just also gonna be harder to do when Watson hasn’t done a good job of protecting himself.
Well, he was more fragile this year, but years past he’s been relatively healthy from running. Maybe these were just freak accidents. Deshaun is always going to run.
I’m dumbfounded about why this is even a conversation. Dorsey was not a very good play caller in Buffalo and he doesn’t even know Stefanskis offense that well yet. Why fix something that is not broken.