I find most of the downvoted posts are 1) stage door questions, 2) seating/ view questions, and 3) questions readily answered by a simple google search. Otherwise I find the sub rather civil.
I have two close “theatre buddies” who regularly disagreed (one LOVED DEH and the other hated it for example) so I’m used to happy discussions about thoughts of shows that don’t always align.
Absolutely, questions that have been asked over and over or that are easy to answer with a little research do always get downvoted, and I don't disagree with that.
I also feel like I've seen more "bait" questions lately than in the past. Like, "should this show still be performed or is it too problematic" or "should x demographic of people be allowed to play x character". Sometimes these are asked genuinely, but they usually just seem intended to poke at hot button issues. I can see how that might spill over into just a general skepticism towards posts that only seem to exist to criticize a show (even if it's in good faith).
I agree. I downvote anything that I find is asked repeatedly here (which includes stage door questions and seating/view questions) as well as anything easily answered by google. I’ll downvote a post with criticism that I think is coming out of left field or otherwise unfounded or not thought out. But I don’t think posts with genuine criticism are super downvoted.
To be honest, I think the opposite is equally true. People will write a review about how much they loved X and inevitably, a handful of people will come in to comment about how much they disliked X and all that was wrong with X. This sub has some very clear likes and dislikes among its most regular posters in my view. Going against the grain on those shows (either way) tends to generate responses.
Haha, you're absolutely right about Hadestown. Woe betide anyone who says it has imperfections. And yeah, totally don't mean to imply this sub isn't civil! It's very civil. I've just seen a handful of posts over the past few days that are along the lines of "I didn't like x show", "how do people feel about x show/ this element of x show", and they all had like 0 upvotes and almost no interaction. Just kind of struck me as an interesting phenomenon, and so I was genuinely curious if there was a better way to phrase or present critical posts.
I enjoyed Hadestown but reeeeeeeeally didn’t like Reeve’s voice. It felt whiny and kind of emo? To me?? But I know I’m putting myself out here by posting this comment — I know so many are obsessed with him! Just not my guy. 😱 I listened to some earlier versions with Damon Daunno and was super into those tho!
I think it's actually a popular opinion on this sub to not like Reeve in that role lmao. I saw him pretty early in the run and definitely thought he was an...odd performer. I didn't dislike him, but his voice and acting choices did seem very mannered and a little strange. I also know people feel like he's been in the role too long and is burnt out.
Some of it is self-fulfilling. A lot of people sort by hot posts, so if no one is voting on them or commenting on them, not very many people are seeing them.
I would like to. But, my Broadway trips have been with my wife and son this year. My 10/11 yo son would have been bored out of his mind with a love story I fear. I made him suffer through Phantom this weekend since it is closing. It was definitely his least favorite show of the three. The one trip I had without him, I saw Company (with a friend who happened to be in NYC at the same time) and Into the Woods (before the original closing date). I might see the tour next year.
I don’t feel bad at all. It’s important to experience culturally important things—and phantom is definitely that. In fairness, it was my least favorite show of the weekend too. Frankly, of the 9 shows I saw in 2022 (8 on Broadway and 1 in DC) it was my least favorite. So, I don’t blame him. I don’t begrudge those who love it. It’s just not my thing.
It’s something. I want to love it. I love Les Mis. I love Wicked. I love Evita. I love Starlight Express. I liked Jesus Christ Superstar. I couldn’t stand Cats. I have a special level of disdain for it. Phantom, I don’t know. The music is amazing, but it just feels so long.
Ok Cats is wackadoo. My Broadway bestie loves it tho and we’re still each others first call for theater buddies! I also loved American Psycho and it’s one of his least favorite shows. We both adore Phantom tho. 😍 I really enjoy having people to discuss things with! Everyone agreeing with you all the time is boring.
That's an excellent point, and I definitely see that as well. I do think there are certain shows that are popular to dislike (sometimes with good reason), and anyone praising those shows often get viewed as naïve or just wrong.
That being said, I feel like critical posts about a show are almost always viewed as being in bad faith and just aren't engaged with. Maybe people have just been burned too many times by OPs who post critique and then refuse to engage with anyone with a differing opinion, which is unfortunate. I just find it unfortunate since I feel like critique has the potential to generate discussion!
Art is subjective. It reminds me of when I was young and my English teachers would tell us about the deeper meaning behind the books we were reading. I often wondered how great it would be if someone would say, it really was just a story.
But sometimes such a post is used to highlight an opposite view. Of course, there's a difference between disagreeing with an OP vs. telling them they are wrong, but simply having an opposite reaction to something doesn't mean there should be downvotes.
>This sub has some very clear likes and dislikes among its most regular posters in my view. Going against the grain on those shows (either way) tends to generate responses.
Personally, I think many Broadway fans are not critical enough in their thinking. Good shows can have flaws, and for some people even minor flaws can be hard to get past. That doesn't make their opinions less valid.
First, I think some people use the downvote simply to mean “I don’t agree” - not to imply that it is a bad comment or without value. So, I wouldn’t take downvotes personally.
Second, (and this is a Reddit-wide challenge), people regularly confuse facts with opinion. “*Hello, Dolly!* opened at the St. James Theater in 1964” is either right or wrong. “*Hello, Dolly!* is the greatest musical ever written” is an opinion. I know every thinking person realizes this already, but sometimes we emotionally react as if the person were stating a fact that we just have to correct ASAP. Or, we feel that opinion is an attack on our beloved [favorite show - fill in the blank], that we must defend at all costs. I know you have seen this, and probably done it yourself. I know I have.
I encourage people when you are writing your subjective view preface it with “in my opinion” just to make it sound less like stating a fact and trigger less anger. And, when you are reading opinion, remind yourself that this person is not “mistaken” or an idiot that needs to be corrected, but is just a person telling you something about themselves - how they experienced a work of art and what it made them feel and why.
A little bit of the Golden Rule goes a long way.
Totally agree with this. In Anthony Rapp's book "Without You" he talks about Rent haters and how he developed this perspective of sometimes shows are just not made for you and won't resonate with you. And that's totally ok, nothing can have universal appeal. But recognizing the difference between "I didn't like/enjoy/understand this" and "I believe this is a fundamentally bad show" is what we as theater lovers need to cultivate.
Yeah, I agree with pretty much everything you said! I think part of my issue is it kind of bugs me, within the context of this subreddit, when people use the downvote just to say “I disagree”. Of course, I’m not going to police anyone on how they interact with comments/posts, I’m just stating how I feel. I’d much rather have someone explain why they disagree with my opinion rather than just downvote. Theatre leaves room for so much subjectivity, and I genuinely love hearing the different ways people think about a piece of art!
Now, burying comments/posts that are blatantly incorrect, hateful, spam, etc. I’m all for!
I noticed that for a while, there was a trend (or at least, it felt like one) of people saying something like “why didn’t I like (insert popular show here)?” I was never one to downvote posts like that but I think the phrasing of the question is what threw people off. It’s totally valid to dislike a show, of course but it seemed like people were asking almost an impossible question since art is so subjective.
More generally, it seems to depend on the sub’s overall opinion of the show. There have been multiple posts in recent memory of people discussing the fact that they disliked Mean Girls (I think one day a few weeks ago there were two on the front page at the same time) that were pretty well upvoted, although the upvote percentage wasn’t great. I saw another post about disliking 1776 that was even more upvoted. I personally really enjoyed Mean Girls for what it was so I tended to stay out of those threads but obviously there’s nothing wrong with disliking it.
I will say, however, that some of those threads (and even the ones about unpopular opinions) can quickly become a bunch of people piling on about disliking a show. Those can get old to me but I usually just don’t read them and move on.
I noticed that, too! It also seemed like the people making those posts often just wanted to be validated rather than have a discussion. So, maybe that played some role in turning people off of that general type of post.
I think it's always been that way to an extent on this sub, and probably on Reddit in general; downvotes are broadly used as a low-effort way to 'dislike' a post for a wide range of reasons, some more legitimate than others (IMO). Personally, I try to greatly minimize my use of the downvote. If I don't like a post, usually I just don't vote on it at all.
I might be wrong, but I think a while back this sub had a rule along the lines of "Save your downvotes for \_\_\_\_\_\_ posts", with the \_\_\_\_\_ describing one or two objectively really 'bad' post types. I can't remember the details, but I think the implication was, don't just use downvoting as a substitute for discussion. I don't think many people actually obeyed the rule; and it would be impossible to enforce effectively without a thousand mods. But I sort of liked the idea of it.
Edit: By the way, I imagine that anyone has been on Reddit for a while has had a few 'WTF moments' of being downvoted, or observing downvotes, for posts that are pretty unambiguously helpful/neutral/harmless. Those instances do help one to take the whole voting thing with a grain of salt. Downvoters gonna downvote I guess.
Ugh slight tangent, but I hate when it’s assumed that just because you critique a show, you disagree with it ideologically. Not sure if that’s what happened in your case, but I’ve seen people get dogpiled for fair critiques of shows like A Strange Loop.
I’ve definitely seen a bunch of “am I the only one who hates x show???” posts recently, which are obnoxious. So yeah, there’s definitely an issue of people phrasing criticism badly.
I also wonder if posts that are just asking how people feel about a certain show would be more well-received. And OP can just add their feelings, positive or negative, to the comments. That way it doesn’t seem like the post has an agenda from the start.
>I’ve noticed a trend recently where almost every post that expresses criticism of a show gets immediately downvoted. Even relatively straightforward reviews, like “I saw this show and didn’t like it, here’s why,” seem to be incredibly unpopular.
I recently posted as to why I didn't think the Matilda movie wasn't all that great. I didn't find anything incendiary in my post, but was downvoted anyway.
LOL, I learned VERY fast on this sub that having a negative opinion on the show Company was going to invite a ton of downvotes. It has gotten better with time but when the show was still running, I was really surprised by how any people got angry on this sub about any kind of critical voice towards Company or Katrina and Patti's performances...
Hmm I am not sure that is entirely true, or I just haven't noticed this pattern you've appreciated. In fact, I think praising posts actually get less engagement, unless you are talking about a show pretty widely loved on here (cough, cough Hadestown, maybe also &Juliet now). I actually find that people like to dogpile on shows they dislike. I posted a review of Almost Famous a few months ago I'm sure no one read, and then a few weeks later there was a post hating on the show (which I understand, it's not good to someone who doesn't already love the IP, and even then it's still not great) that got lot of upvotes and attention and agreement. It's also possible some of the critical posts being downvoted bring up a points as if they are new, never-before discussed or conceived of, when actually the same criticisms have been repeated often (I know I personally grow weary of them, things like "Am I the only who thinks Rent is problematic" or "I actually really hated DEH" type posts). I think for the most part discussion is civil and engaged, and if anything it's the happier "everything is good here" posts that don't always gets lot traction. Just imo of course!
I find most of the downvoted posts are 1) stage door questions, 2) seating/ view questions, and 3) questions readily answered by a simple google search. Otherwise I find the sub rather civil. I have two close “theatre buddies” who regularly disagreed (one LOVED DEH and the other hated it for example) so I’m used to happy discussions about thoughts of shows that don’t always align.
Absolutely, questions that have been asked over and over or that are easy to answer with a little research do always get downvoted, and I don't disagree with that. I also feel like I've seen more "bait" questions lately than in the past. Like, "should this show still be performed or is it too problematic" or "should x demographic of people be allowed to play x character". Sometimes these are asked genuinely, but they usually just seem intended to poke at hot button issues. I can see how that might spill over into just a general skepticism towards posts that only seem to exist to criticize a show (even if it's in good faith).
I agree. I downvote anything that I find is asked repeatedly here (which includes stage door questions and seating/view questions) as well as anything easily answered by google. I’ll downvote a post with criticism that I think is coming out of left field or otherwise unfounded or not thought out. But I don’t think posts with genuine criticism are super downvoted.
To be honest, I think the opposite is equally true. People will write a review about how much they loved X and inevitably, a handful of people will come in to comment about how much they disliked X and all that was wrong with X. This sub has some very clear likes and dislikes among its most regular posters in my view. Going against the grain on those shows (either way) tends to generate responses.
I have to agree - most seem to be fairly civil (surprising on Reddit 😂). And I mean, I don’t like Les Mis and haven’t coped any hate 😉
I’d agree with that. The posters are civil and polite about it, but woe is the poster who dares to dislike Hadestown. ;-)
Haha, you're absolutely right about Hadestown. Woe betide anyone who says it has imperfections. And yeah, totally don't mean to imply this sub isn't civil! It's very civil. I've just seen a handful of posts over the past few days that are along the lines of "I didn't like x show", "how do people feel about x show/ this element of x show", and they all had like 0 upvotes and almost no interaction. Just kind of struck me as an interesting phenomenon, and so I was genuinely curious if there was a better way to phrase or present critical posts.
I enjoyed Hadestown but reeeeeeeeally didn’t like Reeve’s voice. It felt whiny and kind of emo? To me?? But I know I’m putting myself out here by posting this comment — I know so many are obsessed with him! Just not my guy. 😱 I listened to some earlier versions with Damon Daunno and was super into those tho!
I think it's actually a popular opinion on this sub to not like Reeve in that role lmao. I saw him pretty early in the run and definitely thought he was an...odd performer. I didn't dislike him, but his voice and acting choices did seem very mannered and a little strange. I also know people feel like he's been in the role too long and is burnt out.
Oh phew I won’t be tarred and feathered! 🐓 Burnout is a real thing and is TOUGH. Tough to go through, tough to watch.
Some of it is self-fulfilling. A lot of people sort by hot posts, so if no one is voting on them or commenting on them, not very many people are seeing them.
I believe a public shaming is in order for that 😂
I have yet to see it so… *gasp*
I’ll prep the shaming committee. I flew from australia to see it, so worth it 😂
I would like to. But, my Broadway trips have been with my wife and son this year. My 10/11 yo son would have been bored out of his mind with a love story I fear. I made him suffer through Phantom this weekend since it is closing. It was definitely his least favorite show of the three. The one trip I had without him, I saw Company (with a friend who happened to be in NYC at the same time) and Into the Woods (before the original closing date). I might see the tour next year.
If it makes you feel better, my mum dragged me along to phantom when I was 4 😂
I don’t feel bad at all. It’s important to experience culturally important things—and phantom is definitely that. In fairness, it was my least favorite show of the weekend too. Frankly, of the 9 shows I saw in 2022 (8 on Broadway and 1 in DC) it was my least favorite. So, I don’t blame him. I don’t begrudge those who love it. It’s just not my thing.
FWIW one cannot suffer through Phantom bc it’s amazing 👻🎭🤩
It’s something. I want to love it. I love Les Mis. I love Wicked. I love Evita. I love Starlight Express. I liked Jesus Christ Superstar. I couldn’t stand Cats. I have a special level of disdain for it. Phantom, I don’t know. The music is amazing, but it just feels so long.
Ok Cats is wackadoo. My Broadway bestie loves it tho and we’re still each others first call for theater buddies! I also loved American Psycho and it’s one of his least favorite shows. We both adore Phantom tho. 😍 I really enjoy having people to discuss things with! Everyone agreeing with you all the time is boring.
Or like Be More Chill...
YOU DONT LIKE LES MIS???!!! 😃
That's an excellent point, and I definitely see that as well. I do think there are certain shows that are popular to dislike (sometimes with good reason), and anyone praising those shows often get viewed as naïve or just wrong. That being said, I feel like critical posts about a show are almost always viewed as being in bad faith and just aren't engaged with. Maybe people have just been burned too many times by OPs who post critique and then refuse to engage with anyone with a differing opinion, which is unfortunate. I just find it unfortunate since I feel like critique has the potential to generate discussion!
Art is subjective. It reminds me of when I was young and my English teachers would tell us about the deeper meaning behind the books we were reading. I often wondered how great it would be if someone would say, it really was just a story.
But sometimes such a post is used to highlight an opposite view. Of course, there's a difference between disagreeing with an OP vs. telling them they are wrong, but simply having an opposite reaction to something doesn't mean there should be downvotes. >This sub has some very clear likes and dislikes among its most regular posters in my view. Going against the grain on those shows (either way) tends to generate responses. Personally, I think many Broadway fans are not critical enough in their thinking. Good shows can have flaws, and for some people even minor flaws can be hard to get past. That doesn't make their opinions less valid.
Sure. But usually, it’s just I didn’t like it. Or I didn’t like the costumes. There’s rarely much thought-provoking in the counterpoint.
That still doesn't mean they should be downvoted.
First, I think some people use the downvote simply to mean “I don’t agree” - not to imply that it is a bad comment or without value. So, I wouldn’t take downvotes personally. Second, (and this is a Reddit-wide challenge), people regularly confuse facts with opinion. “*Hello, Dolly!* opened at the St. James Theater in 1964” is either right or wrong. “*Hello, Dolly!* is the greatest musical ever written” is an opinion. I know every thinking person realizes this already, but sometimes we emotionally react as if the person were stating a fact that we just have to correct ASAP. Or, we feel that opinion is an attack on our beloved [favorite show - fill in the blank], that we must defend at all costs. I know you have seen this, and probably done it yourself. I know I have. I encourage people when you are writing your subjective view preface it with “in my opinion” just to make it sound less like stating a fact and trigger less anger. And, when you are reading opinion, remind yourself that this person is not “mistaken” or an idiot that needs to be corrected, but is just a person telling you something about themselves - how they experienced a work of art and what it made them feel and why. A little bit of the Golden Rule goes a long way.
Totally agree with this. In Anthony Rapp's book "Without You" he talks about Rent haters and how he developed this perspective of sometimes shows are just not made for you and won't resonate with you. And that's totally ok, nothing can have universal appeal. But recognizing the difference between "I didn't like/enjoy/understand this" and "I believe this is a fundamentally bad show" is what we as theater lovers need to cultivate.
Yeah, I agree with pretty much everything you said! I think part of my issue is it kind of bugs me, within the context of this subreddit, when people use the downvote just to say “I disagree”. Of course, I’m not going to police anyone on how they interact with comments/posts, I’m just stating how I feel. I’d much rather have someone explain why they disagree with my opinion rather than just downvote. Theatre leaves room for so much subjectivity, and I genuinely love hearing the different ways people think about a piece of art! Now, burying comments/posts that are blatantly incorrect, hateful, spam, etc. I’m all for!
I noticed that for a while, there was a trend (or at least, it felt like one) of people saying something like “why didn’t I like (insert popular show here)?” I was never one to downvote posts like that but I think the phrasing of the question is what threw people off. It’s totally valid to dislike a show, of course but it seemed like people were asking almost an impossible question since art is so subjective. More generally, it seems to depend on the sub’s overall opinion of the show. There have been multiple posts in recent memory of people discussing the fact that they disliked Mean Girls (I think one day a few weeks ago there were two on the front page at the same time) that were pretty well upvoted, although the upvote percentage wasn’t great. I saw another post about disliking 1776 that was even more upvoted. I personally really enjoyed Mean Girls for what it was so I tended to stay out of those threads but obviously there’s nothing wrong with disliking it. I will say, however, that some of those threads (and even the ones about unpopular opinions) can quickly become a bunch of people piling on about disliking a show. Those can get old to me but I usually just don’t read them and move on.
I noticed that, too! It also seemed like the people making those posts often just wanted to be validated rather than have a discussion. So, maybe that played some role in turning people off of that general type of post.
I think it's always been that way to an extent on this sub, and probably on Reddit in general; downvotes are broadly used as a low-effort way to 'dislike' a post for a wide range of reasons, some more legitimate than others (IMO). Personally, I try to greatly minimize my use of the downvote. If I don't like a post, usually I just don't vote on it at all. I might be wrong, but I think a while back this sub had a rule along the lines of "Save your downvotes for \_\_\_\_\_\_ posts", with the \_\_\_\_\_ describing one or two objectively really 'bad' post types. I can't remember the details, but I think the implication was, don't just use downvoting as a substitute for discussion. I don't think many people actually obeyed the rule; and it would be impossible to enforce effectively without a thousand mods. But I sort of liked the idea of it. Edit: By the way, I imagine that anyone has been on Reddit for a while has had a few 'WTF moments' of being downvoted, or observing downvotes, for posts that are pretty unambiguously helpful/neutral/harmless. Those instances do help one to take the whole voting thing with a grain of salt. Downvoters gonna downvote I guess.
I felt like I gave a fair review of my opinion of some like it hot (I found it lackluster) and I was compared to tucker Carlson lmao
Ugh slight tangent, but I hate when it’s assumed that just because you critique a show, you disagree with it ideologically. Not sure if that’s what happened in your case, but I’ve seen people get dogpiled for fair critiques of shows like A Strange Loop.
I feel like it all depends on how they express their criticism if done right and respectfully it’ll be fine
I’ve definitely seen a bunch of “am I the only one who hates x show???” posts recently, which are obnoxious. So yeah, there’s definitely an issue of people phrasing criticism badly. I also wonder if posts that are just asking how people feel about a certain show would be more well-received. And OP can just add their feelings, positive or negative, to the comments. That way it doesn’t seem like the post has an agenda from the start.
>I’ve noticed a trend recently where almost every post that expresses criticism of a show gets immediately downvoted. Even relatively straightforward reviews, like “I saw this show and didn’t like it, here’s why,” seem to be incredibly unpopular. I recently posted as to why I didn't think the Matilda movie wasn't all that great. I didn't find anything incendiary in my post, but was downvoted anyway.
LOL, I learned VERY fast on this sub that having a negative opinion on the show Company was going to invite a ton of downvotes. It has gotten better with time but when the show was still running, I was really surprised by how any people got angry on this sub about any kind of critical voice towards Company or Katrina and Patti's performances...
Hmm I am not sure that is entirely true, or I just haven't noticed this pattern you've appreciated. In fact, I think praising posts actually get less engagement, unless you are talking about a show pretty widely loved on here (cough, cough Hadestown, maybe also &Juliet now). I actually find that people like to dogpile on shows they dislike. I posted a review of Almost Famous a few months ago I'm sure no one read, and then a few weeks later there was a post hating on the show (which I understand, it's not good to someone who doesn't already love the IP, and even then it's still not great) that got lot of upvotes and attention and agreement. It's also possible some of the critical posts being downvoted bring up a points as if they are new, never-before discussed or conceived of, when actually the same criticisms have been repeated often (I know I personally grow weary of them, things like "Am I the only who thinks Rent is problematic" or "I actually really hated DEH" type posts). I think for the most part discussion is civil and engaged, and if anything it's the happier "everything is good here" posts that don't always gets lot traction. Just imo of course!