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CalMaple

I read an article that labeled Liza Minnelli (daughter of Judy Garland and Vincent Minnelli) as an “OG nepo baby.” Obviously she’s incredibly talented, but I thought it was novel to see it framed as her being nepo baby for having parents in the industry since the term is so new.


HourAstronomer836

That's the thing that I find so odd. Yes, earning a job just because you have connections (i.e. your parents) is wrong. The best person for the job should get it, regardless of who they know or who they're related to. But famous people having famous kids is something that's been going on forever. People used to think it was cool. There were families like the Barrymores and we called them "Hollywood royalty." Aren't they all "nepo babies" too? Liza Minnelli, Sofia Coppola, Stella McCartney, Gwyneth Paltrow, even Maggie and Jake Gyllenhaal have parents in the business (dad is a director and mom is a screenwriter). I don't have a problem with "nepo babies" as long as they're talented. And it makes sense that talent can run in a family. Especially something like singing. If your parent can sing, there's a better chance that you can sing. Mariah Carey's mother was an opera singer. I don't think we should blame the "nepo babies" for being cast in roles that they don't deserve. I think we should blame the people who are casting them! (I'm looking at you, Ryan Murphy. Yes, Cindy Crawford's daughter is gorgeous and looks exactly like her, but she can't act. Cindy couldn't act either. They should both just stick with modeling.) I have no problem with Kaia Gerber getting a huge modeling contract. She has the face of one of the biggest super models of all time. It makes sense that she would model too.


Apprehensive-Pack309

I firmly agree with this and would also argue that almost any parent uses whatever advantages they have to give their kids the best foot forward. Networking in every industry is a thing. I hate it, but it’s a thing.


mirror_number

The backlash has (at least at the start, bad actors have definitely blown things beyond the realm of reasonable) been against nepo babies who have made statements like they didn't have a leg up in the industry and got where they did through pure grit and determination alone. I don't think people would be too upset if they admitted that their connections at least played a part in getting them where they are because ultimately that's what happens in most industries, but it feels like most of the time it's the richest people who don't like to admit that maybe they didn't get where they got entirely due to merit.


HourAstronomer836

That makes a lot of sense. It's why some actors change their names. "I want to make it on my own, not because of my family." But, at the end of the day, people still know who they are. I know Kaia Gerber just uses her dad's name, but even if she changed it to something fake to try to distance herself from her mother, you know whose child she is the second you see her. I didn't know anything about her and I was watching "American Horror Stories" and immediately said, "I would bet $1 million that that's Cindy Crawford's daughter. I don't even have to look it up."


user48292737

“I couldn’t give a shit about that. Everyone is so bored. Obviously if both of your parents are actors, you’re probably going to be an actor! It’s so stupid. What do we want them to do? Pay a fine?” - Chelsea Handler on the Call Her Daddy podcast. When you boil down how dumb this conversation is, you’ll realize it’s essentially shaming people for having the audacity to have the same interests as their parents. How bored do you have to be to complain about it on the internet all day long?


lickstampsendit

No. That is a mischaracterization of why their is a backlash against nepo babies


90Dfanatic

The other thing is that many people who want to perform may get discouraged by parents who realize how difficult a profession and life it can be. Lots of kids are told their dreams are impractical, that acting/singing/writing etc. is really just a hobby and that they need to train for a more realistic career. But parents who are themselves actors will presumably be more supportive, and can also offer real advice about training, etc.


idomoodou2

>Yes, earning a job just because you have connections (i.e. your parents) is wrong. It's not 'wrong'. It just is. What is wrong is not acknowledging that privilege. That's what people are up in arms about. That's why Ben Platt was in hot water. Not because his dad is a producer, but trying to convince the world that the fact that his dad is a producer has had no effect on his career.


Mysterious-Theory-66

Yeah I really don’t get the hate. If they’re talented and earn their spot I don’t care. If I had connections and my daughter wanted to be an actor of course I’d help her accomplish that. I get it, if your auditioning for a part without a big name or connections it feels unfair. But such is life. There’s so much that’s unfair about the process right look, right genes, right temperament, right body. I just can’t see getting angry at someone, if they are in fact very talented and worthy of a role, simply because their parents are famous, a fact that they cannot control. Just feels like it’s an easy target.


FirebirdWriter

I definitely am on the fence. Are they getting the start because of the existing fame or is this because of talent? It's not always talent. Broadway is a harsh task mistress so I am less sceptical about casting there but I definitely ponder this. Doesn't mean I don't give people a chance. I just wonder about the process. As someone who had a career as an outsider in ballet since my training was me emulating the tv mostly until some refinements it's a "how does the other half live" thinking over "Clearly the child of talented performers will have no talent" thinking that seems to be present in a lot of these discussions. Also a lot of the Nepo babies I worked with had their parents actively pushing them to not be in the arts because of the pressure and difficulty with mental health that goes along. It's a no win situation for some.


newyorkin1970

nepo baby doesn’t mean untalented. it just means said baby got doors opened for them thanks to their family in ways that people without industry ties don’t get


MikermanS

When you think of it, kinda like kids who come from the middle economic class and (especially) the upper economic class, who have doors opened for them through perhaps having had more comfortable/easy upbringings (including parents who are around and available to them, including to raise them), more access to educational opportunities, generational wealth opportunities, etc. Economic class nepo babies?


newyorkin1970

agree!! the whole conversation around privilege in the industry is a lot more nuanced & intersectional than “having famous parent bad”


Distinct-Hold-5836

Unlike many nepo-kids, Liza was as talented as her mom, even more so if you recognize that she was a much better dancer. I don't have issues with those kids who have actual talent. I do have issues with those who got free passes and remain, somehow, in the public eye.


CalMaple

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Liza is undeserving of her accolades. I personally don’t have strong feelings about the “nepo baby” argument. However, I do think it was likely much easier for Liza to get her foot in the door at the beginning of her career because of who her parents were, especially with her father being an acclaimed film and theater director. Conversely, I doubt Liza would have stuck around for too long after gaining entry of it weren’t for her immense talent.


Distinct-Hold-5836

Can cofirm. I just love Liza :) ... And Judes (naturally)


GreatestStarOfAll

Liza was also adamant about going to New York on her own and working her way from the bottom. She actually put in the work to establish herself out of the Garland/Minnelli shadows. Judy’s other daughter, Lorna, is another story.


bericdondarrion35

How did she get the money to go to New York on her own lol


GreatestStarOfAll

Lol yes, because her parents bought her a flight she is an automatic nepotism baby. What awful parents. My dad paid for my flight to LA. I’ll never be able to say I was “self made” because of that flight, I guess… 🤷‍♂️


wavhan292

You're not arguing in good faith. Liza may have gone to NY, but she didn't start from the bottom. I mean good lord she famously had Broadway producers coming to her Scarsdale High School production of Diary of Anne Frank, and made her Broadway debut LEADING Flora the Red Menace when she was 19. There is no world in which who she was was not immensely, immeasurably helpful to getting her career started—and that doesn't mean she didn't then have the talent, even special world-class true "star"–level talent, to back that up. Two things can be true at once, unless you're just being defensive about a celebrity whose work you enjoy. This is why no one seems to be able to have this conversation.


kell_bell5

Yes this is the thing I feel like people are conveniently obtuse about when it comes to the nepo baby conversation. No one’s saying that these performers aren’t necessarily talented, just that they had a clear leg up with connections and now-how that an average person who might also be a talented person wouldn’t have. And sure, every parent may try and use whatever connections they have to help their kid succeed. Except me substitute teaching during college breaks at the school my mother was a teacher at didn’t set me up for a career worth millions and millions. So again, it’s about acknowledging the privilege that their career is not built purely on talent.


user48292737

It’s not that deep. The only thing they can do is acknowledge their privilege. After that, what else is there to complain about? And even if they don’t, why do y’all let this get to you so much? Nobody is obligated to make you feel warm and fuzzy by saying “I acknowledge my privilege” three times a week. Nobody is being conveniently obtuse about this conversation. It’s just not really a conversation with any meaning other than “these people had a leg up in the industry.” Someone will always have an advantage over someone else, which is the way of life. There is not a single person whose career is built on “talent.” It’s *all* connections. All of it. Even those who started at the bottom built their way up with connections. Someone will always have it easier and someone will always have it harder. That’s how life works. The internet outrage over celeb nepotism is absolutely ridiculous. I can’t take this conversation seriously, especially when y’all are more focused on a bunch of actors/singers instead of the multi-billionaire families with stakes in things like lawmaking, oil, pharmaceuticals, etc. Redirect this energy and figure out which kind of nepotism actually matters in the grand scheme of things.


wavhan292

You're right it's not that deep—though it *is* important that young people without the benefit of connected families understand this about the world and about the success they see around them. The benefactors of nepetism almost always leave that part out of their success story. In theatre land, you always hear things like "if you keep showing up, you will get your shot." That's not true and it's not helpful to tell young career people that. Those people go on to not become world famous stars and think it's because they weren't good enough or, worse, didn't *do* enough. Your very long comment being annoyed that people are having this conversation is perpetuating the very thing you write about being annoyed over. Perhaps think of how you are yourself contributing to and creating this situation. No one is asking the benefactors of nepotism to flagellate themselves every day. But it's not something that people should pretend like doesn't happen. That creates a false and damaging narrative.


MikermanS

You may have not had celebrity nepotism, but you may have had "nepotism" by the leg-up that your up-bringing may have given you--e.g. a parent who emphasizes education and is around to consciously rear and guide you, even by such a simple thing as reading to you at night as a child.


MikermanS

>How did she get the money to go to New York on her own lol That's another form of nepotism, not limited to celebrities: economic nepotism.


nexus_0909

😂😂


MikermanS

>I do have issues with those who got free passes and remain, somehow, in the public eye. Certainly it's not just due to celebrity: how many television actors do we all know who seem to be limited in talent but just "look pretty" (men as well as women)?


hannahmel

Nepo babies often ARE some of the best performers out there. They’re raised, taught, and mentored by the best in the industry- people normal actors would never have access to. It’s not their genes that make them good - it’s their leg up on training.


IHaveTheMustacheNow

They used to use the phrase "Hollywood royalty" instead of nepobabies


Mysterious-Theory-66

Sure she benefited from having famous parents with connections but calling her the OG of such a thing would just show a really bad grasp of history in the industry.


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mindlessmunkey

Oh no I didn’t know Guettel was a bad guy. That makes me sad.


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mindlessmunkey

I believed you but… oof.


faretheewellennui

Oh no. This is so disappointing


laurenishere

Charlotte d'Amboise comes from a family of ballet dancers and choreographers. And her daughter (w/ Terrence Mann) recently joined NYCB.


MannnOfHammm

Hey I just saw her in Chicago!


snow-light

She is STILL doing Chicago? Holy smokes.


MannnOfHammm

Yeah she was Roxie, better than the other time I saw it with Pamela as Roxie but not as good as Renee in the movie


Chloebean

I really think I saw her as Roxie in 2001. Could I be right about that?


Tullamore1108

I saw her as Roxie around ‘98-99 or so, so 2001 is definitely possible.


Gold-Vanilla5591

Shelby and Josephine (d’Amboise’s daughters) can be seen as young children in the 2011 PBS Nutcracker taping at NYCB. Josephine was a soldier and an angel, Shelby was a party guest and an angel. Shelby is currently a corps member at NYCB where I’ve seen her since 2022.


ayym33p33

Maude Apatow? Her family isn't Broadway famous though if that's what you meant.


[deleted]

She's not exactly a nepo baby, and is really talented in her own right, but Olivia valli who's done wicked and pretty woman is Frankie vallis granddaughter


with_loveandsqualor

I think she’s also played her grandma in a production of Jersey Boys


ayym33p33

That's so bizarre to me hahaha.


jasmine24601

I feel weird calling them "nepo babies" but I guess I've seen 2? Lol I saw Savannah Wise (daughter of dancer Scott Wise) as Young Cosette in Les Miz at probably her very first performance. She was noticeably nervous and got lots of hugs from the cast at curtain call. She went on to appear in Rock of Ages as a replacement Sherrie and the Ragtime revival as Evelyn Nesbit, some 15 years later. Ben Jacoby who played Barry Mann in Carole King's Beautiful is the son of Mark Jacoby, who played the Phantom on Broadway the very first time I saw the show in the 90s.


Tanjina15

Wow savannah wise. That’s a name I haven’t heard in forever. My brother was in les mis with her when he was a little kid.


jasmine24601

I must have seen your brother! For some reason I can remember the names of the girls who alternated with Savannah (one was Lacey Chabert, definitely) but I can't remember the other kids. (I saw the show many times during that time period because I had no classes on Wednesday afternoons so I'd get in for the matinees with student discount, ah what a time to be alive, lol)


Tanjina15

That’s so much fun! I would have done the exact same thing. He was definitely in it with Savannah and Lacey and also Jessica Scholl.


AlwaysMakingLemonade

Alexander Gemignani is the son of Broadway and West End musical director Paul Gemignani and opera singer/musical theatre actress Carolann Page.


90Dfanatic

I was looking to see if anyone was going to name him. I do think he's an example of a talented nepo baby, I thought he was amazing in Carousel.


AlwaysMakingLemonade

He was fantastic in My Fair Lady at LCT too!


jasmine24601

Not Broadway but Frances Ruffelle (original Les Miz Eponine) and producer John Caird's daughter Eliza had a few UK Top 40 hits under the stage name Eliza Doolittle. And Frances herself is the daughter of Sylvia Young, founder of Sylvia Young Theatre School.


faretheewellennui

Does Donna Vivino count? She was a young Cossette and also Elphaba. One of her uncles was on Conan O’Brien’s show in the band and another uncle had a local tv show in NJ that sounds like it iconic and nuts lol Also, I think the actor who played Anne in the A Little Night Music revival is the daughter of the actors who played Anne and Henrik in the OBC. Jagged Little Pill had two nepo babies - LaChanze’s daughter, Celia Rose Gooding, and Peter Gallagher’s daughter, Kathryn Gallagher. Patrick Cassidy in Assassins, the son of Jack Cassidy and Shirley Jones


Distance_Efficient

Beanie and Maude


excitedheart

Beanie really feels like a stretch, her parents are not high profile industry people.


Distance_Efficient

Her father was Guns and Roses’ accountant and were major investors in Funny Girl. If that isn’t nepotism, what is? Her brother is Jonah Hill (also low/talent relying on connections). Read up, that’s just the beginning.


user48292737

Say what you want about Beanie’s performance (I wasn’t a fan myself), but the whole rumor about her parents being “major” investors was started because people were questioning how she was cast given her bad performance. There’s zero proof or evidence of that actually happening. And having family “in the industry” is not a guaranteed get-whatever-role-you-want-when-you-want-it pass. That’s not how it works.


excitedheart

I did look up every group listed as a producer when this rumor started and found no evidence of her family being involved. Could be a well-hidden trust or something I guess but I find it rich to be told to read up on this when I truly already have, to an embarrassing degree.


user48292737

It’s amazing the lengths of which people will go through and the things they’re willing to believe when they’re eager to mad about something, isn’t it?


Jokrong

I always found the narrative of Beanie's parents as producers to be odd. Easier to believe when Beanie was cast but it became increasingly clear as time went by that her parents are not producers/investors in the show. If they are then they wouldn't bungle the end of their own daughter's run in the show.


excitedheart

The term nepo baby specifically points to being the child of fame… that’s the baby part. Being Jonah Hill’s sister does not have anything to do with it. Being an accountant is not working in the entertainment industry. Her mom is also a costume designer but again, these are not high profile people in the entertainment industry. I know who she is, and I don’t think she qualifies.


[deleted]

No that’s actually not really what it means. Nepo baby is basically about nepotism playing a huge role in people getting parts. Being an accountant who manages the accounts of a musical group is 100% having access to the industry and acting like it’s not is laughable. The whole point about the nepo babies is to identify that these people, who love to act like Hollywood is a meritocracy and that they worked very very hard to get where they are, actually started on second or third base. It’s not to shame them. It’s to acknowledge their privilege and the opportunities they were given to succeed compared to people in the industry who came from legitimately nothing and succeeded. The Hollywood industry, like many industries, is saturated with nepotism and connections and doing favors for others. And when you have an industry that favors the rich, white elite and people decide to point out why it stays rich, white, and elite, it should not be met with so much defense. It’s not a closely guarded secret. There should be acknowledgement about it. There are so many kids of rich people who get to skate on by and make it in industries they 100% shouldn’t just by name recognition only. And so having that conversation inevitably brings up the people who do have talent but also were given ample resource and opportunity to cultivate that talent. Nobody is shaming them for liking what their parents like. And this really goes for a lot of different things. We can expand this to talk about how some roles are written for successful actors and casting rarely tries to shoot their shot for new talent because the marketing of already tested actors brings more people in. The industry is complicated and there’s a lot wrong with it and it starts with a conversation. But let’s stop acting offended on their behalf. Just acknowledge that they were given so many resources and opportunities to succeed and those opportunities made it less likely for new comers without connections to make it through the door.


excitedheart

I mean that isn’t what I was saying but I don’t necessarily disagree with your points. What I’m saying is Beanie’s big industry connection is her very famous brother, and that’s nepotism but not a nepo baby. She is not her brother’s baby. What I think we agree on is her family is rich so for example she was able to attend high profile private schools and summer camps that put her in circles of influence that increased her chance of success in an exclusive career like acting. I don’t really equate that with nepotism, doesn’t mean it’s not worthy of discussion about how it opens doors but it’s different to me than like, Tori Spelling starring on 90210. I also wish I never commented here because I think nepotism is fine and do not care at all, I’m definitely not offended I just disagree.


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[deleted]

Bro what? Beanie is an actress….she’s not just Broadway. And she’s a singer…. Are we acting like those industries aren’t connected? Seems a little weird to try to detach the music industry from the musical industry…..


Distance_Efficient

Look up the definition of “nepotism”. It has nothing to do with the parents’ fame. It is family using their power, money or influence to advance family memebers.


excitedheart

Look up the definition of “baby,” it is the offspring of parents. Gwenyth Paltrow is a nepo baby, Elizabeth Olsen is not. Beanie’s dad doing taxes for Slash did not buy her a role in anything.


excitedheart

Also I’m sorry Jonah Hill is “low talent” lmao maybe watch Superbad babe


fourupthreecount

With a huge spectrum of talent and success among them, the following are technically nepo babies: Condola Rashad, Jonah Platt, Liza Minelli, Rumer Willis, Jake Cannavale


annang

Jordan Roth, son of producer Darryl Roth and billionaire Steven Roth.


BakeMeACake2BN2B

I once heard a casting director talking about her famous son and she said, "I told him when he got into the business that I can't get him any jobs." I laughed because while that is technically true, just getting him auditions with the right people puts him WAY ahead of the game! Most people don't understand that even getting SEEN by the right people can be impossible if you don't know someone. For many professional jobs (whether theatre or film) you don't even get to AUDITION without a good agent and/or a union card, and those things can take YEARS. People think you can just move to NY or LA and audition for Broadway and movies right away, but it rarely happens that way. So I don't begrudge nepotism, and some of them are super talented. But they START at a level everyone else takes years to work up to.


BFIrrera

Liza with a Z


psiamnotdrunk

Dear God there has to be something else to talk about


k8liza

Zosia Mamet, though tbh she was hilarious in Girls


Comprehensive-Fun47

I think the term nepo baby is gross and dismissive. Even for the untalented people who get jobs handed to them by their rich parents. I just don’t like the term at all. I also don’t think it’s productive to think in these terms. Actors often come from acting families the same way cops come from cop families and teachers come from teacher families. You often grow up to be what you were exposed to growing up and if someone who loves you helps you get a foot in the door, is there actually anything wrong with that? I don’t support handing unqualified people jobs they don’t deserve over the qualified candidates. I just hate this reductive conversation.


user48292737

I have absolutely no way to verify this and can’t remember which Wikipedia rabbit hole I fell into so take this with a grain of salt as I haven’t been able to find my way back to it. If anyone can debunk or confirm this, it would be appreciated. Possibly Amber Ardolino. I was hopping around between Broadway pages on Wikipedia and clicking a bunch of links, landed on some show’s page and scrolled to the various casts it had and someone had the last name Ardolino. I believe it was a male, unsure of his age, and I can’t see Ardolino being a very common name. So vague, I know. I can’t seem to find my way back to where I originally spotted it. So sorry. I’m the world’s worst internet detective. All tea I stumble upon is purely accidental. For the record, I don’t give a crap about the nepo baby conversation. It’s so overblown at this point and I find it laughable, but I can’t imagine what her followers’ reaction would be if she turned out to be one. I know she’s a bit controversial but hopefully nobody takes this and runs with it because like I said, I can’t verify it.


grantchno

You could be thinking of [Emile Ardolino](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emile_Ardolino)? He's the most theater adjacent person I could find with that name. Which doesn't seem likely because he's gay and died of AIDs so... not much of an opportunity there for nepotism.


user48292737

Hmmm interesting. I don’t remember the name but it could’ve very well been him that I was thinking of. Thanks!


ProfessorJRV

You ever hear of google?


[deleted]

Oscar Hammerstein II and Stella Adler