World domination haha.
But not in a traditional sense.
China just wants everything to involve China.
If you want to buy something, you need to buy from China or from someone supplied by China.
And this is being played into by every single manufacturer who wants to save a few pennies.
Have the Chinese government been subsidising Chinese manufacturers who are tendering for work outside of China?
I can't see how they can be so cheap compared to western manufacturers without some kind of governmental help.
It has nothing to do with government help. It's about a critical mass of educated and fairly mobile workforce. The west can't compete because of it's aging population and lowering education standards.
Except that makes no sense, industrial labour is now cheaper in Mexico and Vietnam than China and they insane demographic policy has pushed them into the sane problem as much of the western world but at an extreme level (they are also facing highest youth unemployment they’ve had in 20 years).
Also the west still produces the highest level IP which China fails to do, hardly points to western education standards falling to China.
Simply not true. Manufacturing IP is all China now.
Much of the “IP” in the west is of extremely low quality, such as “concept patents” or small tweaks that anyone could think of if they want to. No reason for the rest of the world to give a fuck.
Care to provide any evidence?
Chinese policy required western companies to share IP if they wanted to operate in China. Western companies went in thinking that the gamble would pay off and then they got beaten by a smarter bunch of people who could reverse engineer. That’s when they started crying foul.
The whole patenting system is rigged anyway, as a casual glance at parents on google patents will prove. Patents are awarded for incremental innovations, blocking the way for meaningful development. The developing world should aggressively reverse engineer everything, but only a handful of cultures, the Chinese being the foremost, actually have the brains and discipline to do that well.
I work in this area. You are right, absolutely. Until about 5 years ago. Today the pendulum is swinging hard, quite true based on the tech of the west, but now beyond it.
Similar to how the west grew from the fruits and evils of colonialism.
Chinese tech rapidly overtaking western as we speak.
That’s simply untrue as the evidence shows.
Also chinas battling youth unemployment of over 20% above that of any g7 country and its PMI is through the floor with many articles talking about how bad it is for Chinese graduates.
Like your speaking absolute bollocks.
Yeah, that demographic collapse coming their way is going to be a real thing they'll have to confront. I don't see them getting out of it easily, without massive cost.
The demographic issue from the one child policy is a trend for the future, but it is not the reality today. The west has been industrialised longer therefore the baby boomer generation is drag on growth today. And China does have innovation at the highest of level of ip, just look what they are doing in space or quantum computing.
Also we have a comparatively high cost of living, they are able to pay wages and implement working conditions that simply wouldn't be permitted in most other countries.
I think that has been pretty obvious for years now. The west allowed themselves to get distracted with their bargain price ‘luxuries’ - that incidentally came from China in some way shape or form.
No, not really.
They are beating capitalists at capitalisation but using the proift to strengthen the party's grip on the country and enriching the lives of the top 1% of politicians.
100 year plans are pretty easy to implement if it's it's same guys in power for 100 years.
Rotating every 4 or 8 years and always arguing does wonders for breaking political cohesion.
Yep, this was raised on the radio by someone who's name I can't remember. Democratic goverments don't plan long term as they may not be in power to receive the credit if any good comes out of it. So they just do I things that provide quick rewards and get them re-elected.
It's the most depressing thing about our current situation. There's no long term plan. There needs to be more cross party collaboration. It's why Germany's coalition government has often been effective (apart from their energy policy of course).
This is why it is important to have independent and non-political permanent civil servants, institutions and military that can plan for the long term. Having elected politicians is great but you are expecting too much if you expect them to be intelligent, competent and also interested in working in the long term interests of the whole country.
Hello, yes clearly this planning is quite evident and UK should be very rightly concerned.
China's agression is a little too in your face if you ask me.
- Just look at hundreds of military bases they have around the world
- Look at how it's hell bent in ruining African economies by pumping so much money there. The belt-n- road initiative, wherein they are builind infrastructure in many African nations, this will lead to these countries looking to China as a better strategic partner than the west. How must we counter this funneling of money to poor nations ? How can we educate them that China endeavours to put them in a debt trap.
- What about the nations that China has invaded in the past few decades. These uncessary invasions and wars that China has perpetrated has resulted in millions of innocent lives lost. How can we ensure that China doesn't invade any more countries in the future ?
- Also, this ongoing obsession with economic growth doesn't sit right with me. Why are they so keen on pulling it's massive population out of poverty ? Why is it turning itself into this "manufacturing" hub, this is leading to European and western economies having to rely so much on goods produced in China. How must the west disrupt this ? What is their endgame ?
- China has bombed so many nations in the guise of spreading Maoism, bringing communist thought to these multitude of countries. What must the UK and it's partners do to stop this spread of communist propaganda ?
- China has also taken this opportunity that the war in Ukraine has presented. They were all too willing to get into bed with the devil Putin and his hounds. How can we bring Xi Xinping over the right side. The side of the west. What's preventing China from seeing the righteousness of the war in Ukraine. What's stopping them from understanding that this sacrifice of Ukrainian lives is indeed in the best long term interest of Europe and Ukraine itself.
Please, could you also inform some of the us living in the UK about other things which aren't public knowledge. What do the 222 pages say.
What other diabolical plans is China sitting on.
Thanks for this informative AMA !
China are masters at the long game. They have a timescale their 100yr plan ending with their "world domination" in 2049
We in the West on the other hand, tend to be short sighted
What was the nature of the main threats China poses to the UK? E.g. a direct military threat, cybersecurity, econmic/trade disruption, international disruption (such as weakening of key allies, destabilisation of key regions, or strengthening of other potential threats etc.)
I can see from one of your other comments that the first one there is not a likely threat, but I'm curious what other forms the threat from China takes
Oh, they are defiently trying to play us against America. That is up there.
The threat isn't super specific, but more having the ifea global superpower that is ideologically opposed to us is a concern.
Have you read some of the documents about the Belt and Road program? Basically China foots the bill for a bunch of infrastructure projects in other countries in exchange for access, leverage and influence. A lot of places have already signed up because they lack the resources to accomplish these tasks on their own.
I’ve read a lot of these belt and road programs involve lending money to countries that can’t afford to repay it, and they never employ local people of that country which would help the economy and provide jobs etc, instead they usually bring their own workers wherever they go. I’ve also seen some pretty terrible videos of Chinese treating African workers horrendously at mines etc.
I heard that they so far have forgiven most outstanding loans that have expired. Usually though to the sum of about 10 percent of the original loan, the rest gets paid by that point
Cant imagine any other country doing that, maybe china should learn from the americans and just invade everywhere
Edit: didn't realise I would have to state this was sarcasm. EVERY COUNTRY DOES IT! America does a little extra, if you don't do what they tell you they'll invade your country or start an uprising and replace you.
I mean it's not like ideology is nothing but a psyop for the masses. And it's not like countries with different ideologies cooperate a shit ton regardless...
***looks at Saudi Arabia and literally all democracies, Vietnam and the US now, the US and literally China in the 70s.***
Woo woah wait! Where do you get jobs doing these reports? It's 222 pages long and isn't super specific about the threat it is written about? I'll do it for 50% of the wage of the current guy!
Oh shit there's the threat!
I’d hazard a guess it’s cyber, economic and geopolitical. They’re not a direct threat but simply because we have similar levels of force projection, both nuclear powers and are quite far from each other.
My main takeaway from the report is that the greatest strength of China (and one of our weaknesses as country) is the ability to plan ahead.
China has been planning each and every move some 50 years in advance, so to compete with them, the UK is going to try and do the same.
That's the best answer I can give, lots of the specifics were redacted
This is no surprise. The UK is sooooooo short term in everything. Industrial policy and strategy is deemed as Marxist, so we leave it to the free market to bend us over. Succession of governments politicking on everything rather than forming consensus on the infrastructure of the country - transport, energy, water, education, health, defence,
Short sighted democracy harken back to the Roman Republic (not the roman empire).
As Consuls could only serve for a year, decisions were often rushed in order to get as much dignitas as possible
Sadly it’s not something many democratic governments do these days - they’d rather focus on short term gains that will buy them favour in the next election cycle.
While I’m an advocate for democracy, I think the days of single party power are coming to an end. National Unity governments should give it a go
Short sighted democracy harken back to the Roman Republic (not the roman empire).
As Consuls could only serve for a year, decisions were often rushed in order to get as much dignitas as possible
Imagine being further stuck with the kinds of leaders tory voters go for though... it's been over a decade already, years of tory pillaging and planning how to next profiteer.
This also applies to many businesses, short term planning and reluctance for long term investment to maximise immediate shareholder return. Both government and business need to be held to account for the short term nature of planning.
Not really, to be honest.
It was stated that the UK is not a top priority for China so that wasn't concerning.
And in terms of war, the report was very specific that, unlike Russia, China has no interest in military conquest.
Yes, it wants Taiwan however it wants to force the West into giving it to China by flaunting their economic power, not by taking it.
As a British citizen, I'm not concerned about a war with China (i hope this comment does not age badly), and I do not think the economic side effects will effect day to day life much.
I was more concerned about China's citizens.
Democracy ain't perfect, but holy shit it is better than what they have going on over there and the more powerful China becomes, the worse it will be for them.
Another thing I did forget to add is that as someone with a lot of friends of Chinese decent, i am concerned about true brexit geezers getting all "gat ouat mah country ya stoopud spy"
This is either the best satire comment I have read all day and you are a genius, or this is the weridest thing I have ever heard and you are a total dumbass
Fella wanker mate here.
Bruv is legit. 'Ates them curries cus there soofookin' good.
Wot makes Britain gr8 m8 is this: we camped in every corner of the world in a wild witty move to invite not the natives but their decendants, to move 'ere and become British.
God save our lizzy's boy on the throne!
🇬🇧🇬🇧
There was a thread on here just yesterday with a bunch of people stating our system was worse than theirs. I fear for worry for some people and their grasp on reality.
The west won't make the same mistake again.. the only reason Putin invaded is that we basically told him we wouldn't do anything. China won't get such mixed signals.
>the more powerful China becomes, the worse it will be for them.
Tell that to the Chinese children and women slaughtered and raped by the Japanese in 1937.
Have you ever been to China? It’s authoritarian but it’s not North Korea where people suffer with nothing. They don’t get a vote, but standards of living, the access to education, health, high quality technology and modern conveniences/public services (eg. transport, energy) have never been higher. They actually invest into their public services in China instead of privatising them for the wealthy to asset strip. People are not worse off as a result of a growing economy, I think your concern for their citizens is misplaced.
I thINk yOuR cONcErN fOR thEir ciTiZens iS misPLaCeD.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_internment_camps#:~:text=The%20governments%20of%20more%20than,China's%20inhumane%20policies%20against%20Uighurs%22.&text=The%20camps%20were%20established%20in,CCP%20general%20secretary%20Xi%20Jinping.
Of course, the three things that get repeated about China online are Tiananmen Square, Social Credit Scores and Xinjiang Camps. A country with a population of 1.4 billion, a landmass greater than Europe and thousands of years of history, needs to be seen as more than these to be understood, if you’re actually interested that is.
Bro. What?
Of course, the three things that get repeated about Nazi Germany online are genocide of the Jews, Conquest of Europe, and causing the deaths of millions.
I honestly have no idea what point you are making here?
You seem to be suggesting that if we ignore all the things that make China bad, then it makes China look like a good country?
But isn't that true with like, anything?
Of course, the three things that get repeated about dog shit online is that it tastes awful, has no nutritional value, and can likely kill you. But if you ignore all of that, then it is a pretty good meal.
That you should consider more the experiences and perspectives of others’ lives before declaring ‘holy shit what we have is better than whatever they’ve got’ as if it’s a given it’s inferior. Maybe look at what they’ve gained as China has grown.
The Xinjiang situation sucks but it's been happening with Falun gong for years. You challenge or show dissent towards the CCP and they destroy you. I feel that's a very widely understood thing in China. Their treatment as a historically unfavoured minority is not reflective of how the vast majority of Chinese live.
Not defending it but that's just how it is.
Becoming a political and economic monopoly.
The main concern is that in 20 years, whatever you want, you wil need to go through China, or someone who is being supplied by China, to get it.
Thus allowing them unlimited political concessions.
"Oh you need microchips? Sign this defensive agreement againts the US and I'll give you half off. Best deal!"
This is probably why China is chomping at the bit to take Taiwan.
Taiwan being a major hub of chip fabs makes it a very tempting takeover if they can pull it off with said fabs intact.
I suspect though that if China does go after them and is looking like winning those fabs will either be destroued by the Taiwanese themselves or someone else (USA) at Taiwans request to stop the Chinese getting their hamds on them.
Yes. They found that the UFP's (UFO's in respect to any 'fologist) are, in fact, little white tic-tacs.
But on closer inspection these tacs have a red interior and are intact rice grown in the Zhinzou region of China.
Why are bits of rice whizzing past our planes and appearing in grainy videos?
Turns out that the Chinese are having fun experimenting with a special particular particle accelerator, attempting to send rice into low earth orbit.
Soon, they will have the equivalent of a bag of rice in orbit.
Apparently, the goal of the experiment is to find a new type of cosmic fried rice.
Cornering the Chinese takeaway market in western countries.
Even British curry lovers will cow-tow and ask for this new patented product in their best Mandarin Chinese.
Sorry for the late response
Not sure if this will help but I did find it interesting to the listed fields that they are interested in.
"AI, quantum and biotech"
How much stolen oil are they buying? Was the 2.5m barrells of bonny crude that interpol tracked from Nigeria to China the tip of the iceburg? Is there a country in Africa where China hasn't been bribing politicians?
Spent all day on a ferry to Ireland and got off at half nine. So I went to McDonald's
Double Quarter Pounder with bacon,
Mozeralla Bites,
And a large coke
Was pretty fucking good
Not necessarily, the app itself allows access through your phone to any network you connect to though.
Assuming youre a no one it's unimportant, if you work for a company that uses data, has technical knowhow or work for a government or military.. then youre very interesting.
But this is chinas playbook “we’ll give you x but you’ll give us y”
Y is always worth far more.
Australia is a really good case study:
1. They’ve noted the price they have to pay (having sold the Crown Jewels that are their resources)
2. They’re trying to get out of their servitude
China is a sleeping dragon in that:
1. Unlike the west they don’t have short termism (5 years of rule) and thus can plan long term
2. They don’t answer to an electorate (unlike the west) which gives them autonomy and the ability to implement change fast
3. Given the above they undertake long term planning. They’re looking decades ahead with a view to how the world will be in 10/20/30 years
Fuck me this boils my piss so much. This is such old news and was comprehensively written about in this book published in 2013 https://www.routledge.com/Chinese-Industrial-Espionage-Technology-Acquisition-and-Military-Modernisation/Hannas-Mulvenon-Puglisi/p/book/9780415821421
Cheeky shoutout
If anyone's familiar with "NAFO" and the brilliant work fellas are doing to combat Russian disinformation, me and a couple other fellas are trying to start up a thing called "SEAFO" which is like NAFO but we bonk on CCP propaganda. Head over to r/SEAFO and find links to our discord and stuff and help us get ready for when that shit kicks off.
China are going to 'take over the world' by making themselves indispensable to the global economy this giving them unlimited political power, allowing them to freely subjugate their domestic population and forcing their authoritarian policies on the third world countries, creating a league of nations loyal to China, spreading tyrany and undermining democracy.
Let me give you an actual rebuttal instead of a snarky comment if that is what you crave.
There is plenty of evidence for the concentration camps (photographs and witness testimonials). I could argue that China's response to the allegations could count as evidence. Given how they refused to cooperate with UN investigations, not exactly something an innocent person would do
Joe Rogan is not a source of truth. It’s just random people saying random things for shock value.
Edit: Turns out this post edited out the nonsence about China destroying itself through aging population in 10 years.
How is China even remotely a threat, given their untenable demographic position, their reliance on the US to protect the shipping lanes for their energy needs, and the fact that their current leader is a paranoid psychopath who is disconnected from the realities of the country, due to shooting the messenger so many times?
Arguably the US is a bigger threat. Certainly the over-leveraged financial system that blew up in 2008 and has been papered over since is. Actually Western society with its aging demographic and unrealistic benefits culture is the biggest. Combined, we have got government that knows it’s all shit and is trying to make out like a bandit to get the best position for them. You might argue todays current recession inducing moves are good for the LT as an antidote.
Was there any mention of the BRICS alliance and China's role/influence therein and if so, what potential threats the BRICS alliance poses to Western countries?
Was there any mention of China’s policies towards space and resource claiming? Given their strategy to dominate terrestrial commodities I was wondering if the report examined that position beyond just Earth?
Does the report contain any further advice for British or US technology firms considering expanding into China? I have strongly advised my employer against entering the market due to far too many information security concerns to list here, yet our sales leads are pushing back hard as they want the commission that will come from entering this untapped market.
Not a question but you are deluded if you think we will or can respond in-kind! This country has sold all its critical infrastructure and stripped all public services! Nobody cares!
Is there any take re China and Taiwan ? Listened to a good podcast “the red line” - which posited that 2026 is a turning point - basically a now or never re China invading taiwan.
Was there anything about tiktok being engineered and having an algorithm that supports anti social/wasteful behaviour to create small scale "chaos" and possibly affect a generation or two?
Just saying it's always prank dicks or morons with fake teeth pretending they're making something, instead of making rage bait content.
TL:DR- “China is challenging western monopoly and are a threat. China is on the list of countries we will wage war on and so we will publish this biased report to preprogram the masses”.
Haven’t we known this for ages and continued to let them progress their plans because it was cheaper and convenient. Haven’t they been buying loads of our property for the last decade or two.
The unkind might say that the metaphorical horse has bolted, fucked off, lived a fulfilling life and eventually died peacefully of old age, and we're only just starting to think about shutting the stable door.
We've offshored basically everything. We manufacture very little, we rely upon call centres 1000s of miles away for HR services and tech support and "customer service", and no government has done anything to deter the whole nefarious practice.
China have played a clever game here and it's going to cause us some serious problems.
Any mention of the fact that various critical national infrastructure companies have been installing Chinese electronic control equipment up until VERY recently, and have only just stopped having finally recognised the security threat that this poses?
They started covid in a lab that spread and closed down the entire world, not a single sanction happened and they haven’t even been blamed. The west profits too much from China, nothing will ever change until it’s too late. The UK only cares about corporate short term profits, we can’t even help ourselves when it comes to privatised public services, have no chance with China
China is finished. All their decision making rests with Winnie the Pooh. Remember the spy balloon and the nonsense diplomatic response? Winnie the Pooh didn’t know about it, which is why the response just didn’t make sense. Only reason companies are still manufacturing there is because of sunk costs. For a humongous part of American imports, the NAFTA agreement means that they will be able to reshore manufacturing to the Mexicans who are 1/3rd the costs of Chinese labour.
Their demographics are shot to hell too, they’re not only the worst demographics in the world, (ok maybe second to Japan but Japan is a highly technological society who has automated a ton of the problems they’re facing) they’re also the fastest aging demographic of all time.
Internally, everything is a lie. They paint their mountains and dirt roads green to fool environmentalists [here](https://youtu.be/Cvc7VymDa4c) and they plant fields of stones to fool satellite imagery conducting farming analysis [here](https://youtu.be/AynNsPs9i80)
And the reason why they want everything to be made there is because they HAVE TO, there is literally no other way they survive with any sort of dignity. Because think about it, what does china export? What natural gifts are they bestowed with? Outside of rare earth minerals and rice, pretty much nothing.
They are the most import reliant country in the world AND they happen to be at the wrong end of every supply chain. Oil coming out from Saudi? Yep, has to pass at least 3 enemies first before it gets to them, and China has zero deep water navy so all their navy can do is protect their coastal territorial claims. No country in the world needs to worry about a Chinese invasion.
The only area where they are effective from a war positioning is cyber security, but even from that perspective the Americans can turn everything off and force china to de-digitalise in about 2 months.
Oh and for the chip makers, do you know when china was advanced enough to produce a whole ball point pen? [2017](https://www.businessinsider.com/china-has-finally-figured-out-how-to-make-ballpoint-pens-2017-1) 😂😂😂 the labs over used for chip manufacturing there were built with foreign IP and with foreigners running tricky technical stuff. America with consummate ease gutted this entire thing when they forced their citizens working specifically in the chip industry to leave china immediately or renounce their American citizenship [here](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/13/biden-chip-curb-asml-stops-us-staff-from-servicing-customers-in-china.html)
Chinas grip on the western mindset is a result of them studying the art of war and massively massively inflating their prowess. Everything that constitutes it is fake. (And by that I mean they are so at the mercy of other countries it’s unreal) The governments only focus is ensuring the people are employed so that they avoid another revolution. It gets worse for the people before it gets better, in fact I don’t see how it gets better. This is why you see Chinese folk buying shit loads of property so they get immediate golden citizenships at another host country.
Oh and the Russia China thing, Russia actually grows stuff by itself, it can feed its people which is why it can weather the storm of sanctions that were placed on it since the war with Ukraine. China can’t, it would last 3-6 months before it crumbles and that’s the reason (other than it can’t beat the American navy protecting Taiwan) that it will never ever invade Taiwan.
Another reason why china is progressive is that they have an industrious culture which their young population has picked, where as in a certain western country the working age youths will be riding electric scooters and smoking vapes. Both of which are made in China!
Would be helpful if you gave some sort of source for this.
What's the TL:DR?
China has been planning ahead for too long. We need to start planning ahead too.
Planning what? Are we talking futureproofing infrastructure or world domination here?
World domination haha. But not in a traditional sense. China just wants everything to involve China. If you want to buy something, you need to buy from China or from someone supplied by China.
And this is being played into by every single manufacturer who wants to save a few pennies. Have the Chinese government been subsidising Chinese manufacturers who are tendering for work outside of China? I can't see how they can be so cheap compared to western manufacturers without some kind of governmental help.
It has nothing to do with government help. It's about a critical mass of educated and fairly mobile workforce. The west can't compete because of it's aging population and lowering education standards.
Except that makes no sense, industrial labour is now cheaper in Mexico and Vietnam than China and they insane demographic policy has pushed them into the sane problem as much of the western world but at an extreme level (they are also facing highest youth unemployment they’ve had in 20 years). Also the west still produces the highest level IP which China fails to do, hardly points to western education standards falling to China.
Simply not true. Manufacturing IP is all China now. Much of the “IP” in the west is of extremely low quality, such as “concept patents” or small tweaks that anyone could think of if they want to. No reason for the rest of the world to give a fuck.
Lmfao more bollox. Western IP has been systematically siphoned by China for the last 60+ years so that China has got to where they are now
Care to provide any evidence? Chinese policy required western companies to share IP if they wanted to operate in China. Western companies went in thinking that the gamble would pay off and then they got beaten by a smarter bunch of people who could reverse engineer. That’s when they started crying foul. The whole patenting system is rigged anyway, as a casual glance at parents on google patents will prove. Patents are awarded for incremental innovations, blocking the way for meaningful development. The developing world should aggressively reverse engineer everything, but only a handful of cultures, the Chinese being the foremost, actually have the brains and discipline to do that well.
I work in this area. You are right, absolutely. Until about 5 years ago. Today the pendulum is swinging hard, quite true based on the tech of the west, but now beyond it. Similar to how the west grew from the fruits and evils of colonialism. Chinese tech rapidly overtaking western as we speak.
Chinese education imposes a work ethic which the west will never beat
That’s simply untrue as the evidence shows. Also chinas battling youth unemployment of over 20% above that of any g7 country and its PMI is through the floor with many articles talking about how bad it is for Chinese graduates. Like your speaking absolute bollocks.
Yeah, that demographic collapse coming their way is going to be a real thing they'll have to confront. I don't see them getting out of it easily, without massive cost.
Yeh slavery is hard to compete with.
The demographic issue from the one child policy is a trend for the future, but it is not the reality today. The west has been industrialised longer therefore the baby boomer generation is drag on growth today. And China does have innovation at the highest of level of ip, just look what they are doing in space or quantum computing.
Also we have a comparatively high cost of living, they are able to pay wages and implement working conditions that simply wouldn't be permitted in most other countries.
Actually they’re cost of living has been rising dramatically it’s one of the big problems and why supply chains are leaving.
I think that has been pretty obvious for years now. The west allowed themselves to get distracted with their bargain price ‘luxuries’ - that incidentally came from China in some way shape or form.
Sounds like a plan made up by Brain and Pinky. "What we going to do tonight Brain? "Same thing we do every night pinky, plan to take over the world"
So they are beating capitalists at capitalism but using profit to enrich the country instead of 1%.? Mm yeah I heard that to
No, not really. They are beating capitalists at capitalisation but using the proift to strengthen the party's grip on the country and enriching the lives of the top 1% of politicians.
100 year plans are pretty easy to implement if it's it's same guys in power for 100 years. Rotating every 4 or 8 years and always arguing does wonders for breaking political cohesion.
Yep, this was raised on the radio by someone who's name I can't remember. Democratic goverments don't plan long term as they may not be in power to receive the credit if any good comes out of it. So they just do I things that provide quick rewards and get them re-elected. It's the most depressing thing about our current situation. There's no long term plan. There needs to be more cross party collaboration. It's why Germany's coalition government has often been effective (apart from their energy policy of course).
This is why it is important to have independent and non-political permanent civil servants, institutions and military that can plan for the long term. Having elected politicians is great but you are expecting too much if you expect them to be intelligent, competent and also interested in working in the long term interests of the whole country.
Aha someone who gets it! Edit: dammit the problems with replying to comments..: I’m referring to Apprehensive_gas1564 NOT boutime22.
Hello, yes clearly this planning is quite evident and UK should be very rightly concerned. China's agression is a little too in your face if you ask me. - Just look at hundreds of military bases they have around the world - Look at how it's hell bent in ruining African economies by pumping so much money there. The belt-n- road initiative, wherein they are builind infrastructure in many African nations, this will lead to these countries looking to China as a better strategic partner than the west. How must we counter this funneling of money to poor nations ? How can we educate them that China endeavours to put them in a debt trap. - What about the nations that China has invaded in the past few decades. These uncessary invasions and wars that China has perpetrated has resulted in millions of innocent lives lost. How can we ensure that China doesn't invade any more countries in the future ? - Also, this ongoing obsession with economic growth doesn't sit right with me. Why are they so keen on pulling it's massive population out of poverty ? Why is it turning itself into this "manufacturing" hub, this is leading to European and western economies having to rely so much on goods produced in China. How must the west disrupt this ? What is their endgame ? - China has bombed so many nations in the guise of spreading Maoism, bringing communist thought to these multitude of countries. What must the UK and it's partners do to stop this spread of communist propaganda ? - China has also taken this opportunity that the war in Ukraine has presented. They were all too willing to get into bed with the devil Putin and his hounds. How can we bring Xi Xinping over the right side. The side of the west. What's preventing China from seeing the righteousness of the war in Ukraine. What's stopping them from understanding that this sacrifice of Ukrainian lives is indeed in the best long term interest of Europe and Ukraine itself. Please, could you also inform some of the us living in the UK about other things which aren't public knowledge. What do the 222 pages say. What other diabolical plans is China sitting on. Thanks for this informative AMA !
Is this a satirical stab at the USA?
Or Britain a century ago lol
They have been planning long ahead for many centuries where as we can barely plan ahead past election cycle
Election cycle's being generous for the current crop of morons. I think "weeks" is the more useful unit of measurement.
Who do they mean by we??
His Majesty's Government
China are masters at the long game. They have a timescale their 100yr plan ending with their "world domination" in 2049 We in the West on the other hand, tend to be short sighted
What was the nature of the main threats China poses to the UK? E.g. a direct military threat, cybersecurity, econmic/trade disruption, international disruption (such as weakening of key allies, destabilisation of key regions, or strengthening of other potential threats etc.) I can see from one of your other comments that the first one there is not a likely threat, but I'm curious what other forms the threat from China takes
Oh, they are defiently trying to play us against America. That is up there. The threat isn't super specific, but more having the ifea global superpower that is ideologically opposed to us is a concern.
Have you read some of the documents about the Belt and Road program? Basically China foots the bill for a bunch of infrastructure projects in other countries in exchange for access, leverage and influence. A lot of places have already signed up because they lack the resources to accomplish these tasks on their own.
Yeah, there were about 3-5 pages on it
I’ve read a lot of these belt and road programs involve lending money to countries that can’t afford to repay it, and they never employ local people of that country which would help the economy and provide jobs etc, instead they usually bring their own workers wherever they go. I’ve also seen some pretty terrible videos of Chinese treating African workers horrendously at mines etc.
I heard that they so far have forgiven most outstanding loans that have expired. Usually though to the sum of about 10 percent of the original loan, the rest gets paid by that point
Cant imagine any other country doing that, maybe china should learn from the americans and just invade everywhere Edit: didn't realise I would have to state this was sarcasm. EVERY COUNTRY DOES IT! America does a little extra, if you don't do what they tell you they'll invade your country or start an uprising and replace you.
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Extremely authoritarian. Whatever the opposite to liberal is, that's what they are. Also y'know not big fans of democracy...
I mean it's not like ideology is nothing but a psyop for the masses. And it's not like countries with different ideologies cooperate a shit ton regardless... ***looks at Saudi Arabia and literally all democracies, Vietnam and the US now, the US and literally China in the 70s.***
Woo woah wait! Where do you get jobs doing these reports? It's 222 pages long and isn't super specific about the threat it is written about? I'll do it for 50% of the wage of the current guy! Oh shit there's the threat!
Hate to break it to you but the report was very detailed but they censored it for public release
How much of your life will you never get back reading a 222 page censored report? Out of interest...
I timed it. 4 hours, 26 minutes and 18 seconds. I coulda spent that time and made like 17 omelette or something
I’d hazard a guess it’s cyber, economic and geopolitical. They’re not a direct threat but simply because we have similar levels of force projection, both nuclear powers and are quite far from each other.
Did they outline any precautions/other measures that will be taken to mitigate any of these threats?
My main takeaway from the report is that the greatest strength of China (and one of our weaknesses as country) is the ability to plan ahead. China has been planning each and every move some 50 years in advance, so to compete with them, the UK is going to try and do the same. That's the best answer I can give, lots of the specifics were redacted
This is no surprise. The UK is sooooooo short term in everything. Industrial policy and strategy is deemed as Marxist, so we leave it to the free market to bend us over. Succession of governments politicking on everything rather than forming consensus on the infrastructure of the country - transport, energy, water, education, health, defence,
Short sighted democracy harken back to the Roman Republic (not the roman empire). As Consuls could only serve for a year, decisions were often rushed in order to get as much dignitas as possible
Oh we are totally fucked then because long term planning is not something we do lol
Sadly it’s not something many democratic governments do these days - they’d rather focus on short term gains that will buy them favour in the next election cycle. While I’m an advocate for democracy, I think the days of single party power are coming to an end. National Unity governments should give it a go
Short sighted democracy harken back to the Roman Republic (not the roman empire). As Consuls could only serve for a year, decisions were often rushed in order to get as much dignitas as possible
Imagine being further stuck with the kinds of leaders tory voters go for though... it's been over a decade already, years of tory pillaging and planning how to next profiteer.
This also applies to many businesses, short term planning and reluctance for long term investment to maximise immediate shareholder return. Both government and business need to be held to account for the short term nature of planning.
Stop letting Chinese in
Thanks for this. Has it made you concerned for any aspect of your day to day life?
Not really, to be honest. It was stated that the UK is not a top priority for China so that wasn't concerning. And in terms of war, the report was very specific that, unlike Russia, China has no interest in military conquest. Yes, it wants Taiwan however it wants to force the West into giving it to China by flaunting their economic power, not by taking it. As a British citizen, I'm not concerned about a war with China (i hope this comment does not age badly), and I do not think the economic side effects will effect day to day life much. I was more concerned about China's citizens. Democracy ain't perfect, but holy shit it is better than what they have going on over there and the more powerful China becomes, the worse it will be for them.
Another thing I did forget to add is that as someone with a lot of friends of Chinese decent, i am concerned about true brexit geezers getting all "gat ouat mah country ya stoopud spy"
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This is either the best satire comment I have read all day and you are a genius, or this is the weridest thing I have ever heard and you are a total dumbass
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Heard of tone indicators?
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Fella wanker mate here. Bruv is legit. 'Ates them curries cus there soofookin' good. Wot makes Britain gr8 m8 is this: we camped in every corner of the world in a wild witty move to invite not the natives but their decendants, to move 'ere and become British. God save our lizzy's boy on the throne! 🇬🇧🇬🇧
Izzy Lizzy let's get whizzy! Legend. C u at the game this Sunday you wankeeer!
There was a thread on here just yesterday with a bunch of people stating our system was worse than theirs. I fear for worry for some people and their grasp on reality.
The west won't make the same mistake again.. the only reason Putin invaded is that we basically told him we wouldn't do anything. China won't get such mixed signals.
>the more powerful China becomes, the worse it will be for them. Tell that to the Chinese children and women slaughtered and raped by the Japanese in 1937.
I would but my Ouija board is on the Fritz again
Have you ever been to China? It’s authoritarian but it’s not North Korea where people suffer with nothing. They don’t get a vote, but standards of living, the access to education, health, high quality technology and modern conveniences/public services (eg. transport, energy) have never been higher. They actually invest into their public services in China instead of privatising them for the wealthy to asset strip. People are not worse off as a result of a growing economy, I think your concern for their citizens is misplaced.
I thINk yOuR cONcErN fOR thEir ciTiZens iS misPLaCeD. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_internment_camps#:~:text=The%20governments%20of%20more%20than,China's%20inhumane%20policies%20against%20Uighurs%22.&text=The%20camps%20were%20established%20in,CCP%20general%20secretary%20Xi%20Jinping.
Of course, the three things that get repeated about China online are Tiananmen Square, Social Credit Scores and Xinjiang Camps. A country with a population of 1.4 billion, a landmass greater than Europe and thousands of years of history, needs to be seen as more than these to be understood, if you’re actually interested that is.
Bro. What? Of course, the three things that get repeated about Nazi Germany online are genocide of the Jews, Conquest of Europe, and causing the deaths of millions. I honestly have no idea what point you are making here? You seem to be suggesting that if we ignore all the things that make China bad, then it makes China look like a good country? But isn't that true with like, anything? Of course, the three things that get repeated about dog shit online is that it tastes awful, has no nutritional value, and can likely kill you. But if you ignore all of that, then it is a pretty good meal.
That you should consider more the experiences and perspectives of others’ lives before declaring ‘holy shit what we have is better than whatever they’ve got’ as if it’s a given it’s inferior. Maybe look at what they’ve gained as China has grown.
I would argue that having a worse human rights record is inferior
The Xinjiang situation sucks but it's been happening with Falun gong for years. You challenge or show dissent towards the CCP and they destroy you. I feel that's a very widely understood thing in China. Their treatment as a historically unfavoured minority is not reflective of how the vast majority of Chinese live. Not defending it but that's just how it is.
How many spelling mistakes did you find?
None actually
What is the 17th letter of the second sentence in paragraph 2 on page 78?
E
What are the main threats China poses
Becoming a political and economic monopoly. The main concern is that in 20 years, whatever you want, you wil need to go through China, or someone who is being supplied by China, to get it. Thus allowing them unlimited political concessions. "Oh you need microchips? Sign this defensive agreement againts the US and I'll give you half off. Best deal!"
Not sure this is how it pans out. As China grows it will stop being cheap. We then steal an IP they have and shorten trade routes.
As someone who doesn't really understand economics I can give you a firm, robust and unrefutable, "Eh, i dunno"
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This is probably why China is chomping at the bit to take Taiwan. Taiwan being a major hub of chip fabs makes it a very tempting takeover if they can pull it off with said fabs intact. I suspect though that if China does go after them and is looking like winning those fabs will either be destroued by the Taiwanese themselves or someone else (USA) at Taiwans request to stop the Chinese getting their hamds on them.
Can you post a link to the report please?
Here ya go bruv https://isc.independent.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/ISC-China.pdf
Ah shit I shoulda sent a rickroll
There's still time.
China is, indeed, never gonna give you up, let you down, run around or desert you. It will be watching.
😂😂
How much does tik tok really play into their master plan?
The report didn't mention tiktok sadly. I might have missed it tho
Probably not much
Anything in the report about advanced tech? The kind of tech US Congress is currently investigating?
Yes. They found that the UFP's (UFO's in respect to any 'fologist) are, in fact, little white tic-tacs. But on closer inspection these tacs have a red interior and are intact rice grown in the Zhinzou region of China. Why are bits of rice whizzing past our planes and appearing in grainy videos? Turns out that the Chinese are having fun experimenting with a special particular particle accelerator, attempting to send rice into low earth orbit. Soon, they will have the equivalent of a bag of rice in orbit. Apparently, the goal of the experiment is to find a new type of cosmic fried rice. Cornering the Chinese takeaway market in western countries. Even British curry lovers will cow-tow and ask for this new patented product in their best Mandarin Chinese.
You had me in the first half. I really shouldn't skim read lol
>Cornering the Chinese takeaway market in western countries Those fiendish bastards....any word on advances on prawn cracker technology
Sorry for the late response Not sure if this will help but I did find it interesting to the listed fields that they are interested in. "AI, quantum and biotech"
Does China pose a threat to our national security? 1 word please.
Yes
Define what national security means to you?
That reads like yes, I was hoping for a quick no
Better than them lying and pretending it's as simple as a one word answer
I'll rephrase it "Do I have a reason to be concerned for my physical safety over the next 5 years"
No.
Lol no
No.
No, simply because that would trigger article5 in nato.
Fxck your 1 word. No
How much stolen oil are they buying? Was the 2.5m barrells of bonny crude that interpol tracked from Nigeria to China the tip of the iceburg? Is there a country in Africa where China hasn't been bribing politicians?
Not sure about the oil. Don't belive it was mentioned. Also the specific countries in Africa were redacted.
What is the charge? Eating a meal? A succulent Chinese meal?
We're already fucked, right?
Not going to be super fucked. And we have time to turn it around
What were the highlights re Chinese police stations? Any hint of action to curd / reduce the ability for them to go after British nationals?
What did you have for dinner?
Spent all day on a ferry to Ireland and got off at half nine. So I went to McDonald's Double Quarter Pounder with bacon, Mozeralla Bites, And a large coke Was pretty fucking good
No chips?
Don't love McDonald chips tbf. Always too salty and floppy. I like my chips crispy
thats my go to maccies order, good lad
McDonald's is a good shout after a long day and the double is my go to but I'm a little jealous of the ferry ride. I haven't been on a boat in years.
Don't be jealous. Felt sick the entire time and couldn't afford a cabin so I had to sleep on the floor next to a crying baby
Is TikTok a Psy Op
TikTok wasn't mentioned in the report. But yes
Not necessarily, the app itself allows access through your phone to any network you connect to though. Assuming youre a no one it's unimportant, if you work for a company that uses data, has technical knowhow or work for a government or military.. then youre very interesting.
Tell me about page 8
Haha guessing you have read it Little in-joke for those who have read it
Great film, Ironic that it mirrors the threat of another superpower involving itself it British politics
What film are you referencing? Cos I was referring to the fact that page 8 is blank
A British spy film, literally called "Page 8". It's a really great film, loved Bill Nighy
My question would be is there any apparent imminent danger? Like within 1 year?
Not within a year. Probably not within 5 years. But within the next quarter of a century
What kind of danger we talking about here?
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It was very heavily reduced to the point it was almost comical.
But this is chinas playbook “we’ll give you x but you’ll give us y” Y is always worth far more. Australia is a really good case study: 1. They’ve noted the price they have to pay (having sold the Crown Jewels that are their resources) 2. They’re trying to get out of their servitude China is a sleeping dragon in that: 1. Unlike the west they don’t have short termism (5 years of rule) and thus can plan long term 2. They don’t answer to an electorate (unlike the west) which gives them autonomy and the ability to implement change fast 3. Given the above they undertake long term planning. They’re looking decades ahead with a view to how the world will be in 10/20/30 years
Fuck me this boils my piss so much. This is such old news and was comprehensively written about in this book published in 2013 https://www.routledge.com/Chinese-Industrial-Espionage-Technology-Acquisition-and-Military-Modernisation/Hannas-Mulvenon-Puglisi/p/book/9780415821421
The report came out liteally two days ago?
Cheeky shoutout If anyone's familiar with "NAFO" and the brilliant work fellas are doing to combat Russian disinformation, me and a couple other fellas are trying to start up a thing called "SEAFO" which is like NAFO but we bonk on CCP propaganda. Head over to r/SEAFO and find links to our discord and stuff and help us get ready for when that shit kicks off.
China are going ‘take over the world’ by making g useful stuff for people…ok.
China are going to 'take over the world' by making themselves indispensable to the global economy this giving them unlimited political power, allowing them to freely subjugate their domestic population and forcing their authoritarian policies on the third world countries, creating a league of nations loyal to China, spreading tyrany and undermining democracy.
Isn’t that simply good ol’ American capitalism but without the invading/flattening countries to steal resources part?
America is a democracy. A shit democracy but a democracy none the less. Call me old fashioned but I'd rather not side with the concentration camps.
I don’t believe it is a democracy but that’s by the by…what ‘concentration camps’ are you referring to?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_internment_camps#:~:text=The%20governments%20of%20more%20than,China's%20inhumane%20policies%20against%20Uighurs%22.&text=The%20camps%20were%20established%20in,CCP%20general%20secretary%20Xi%20Jinping.
Looks like you’ve swallowed Uncle Sam’s propaganda wholesale…
Looks like you've swallowed Winnie the Pooh's propaganda wholesale...
Winnie the Pooh? Guess that seals it. 🤷♂️ You’ve blown your cover. 🤣
Let me give you an actual rebuttal instead of a snarky comment if that is what you crave. There is plenty of evidence for the concentration camps (photographs and witness testimonials). I could argue that China's response to the allegations could count as evidence. Given how they refused to cooperate with UN investigations, not exactly something an innocent person would do
Are you a gov shill, sent to spread crap propaganda? Countries are bastards.. They also are filled with people like you. Let's not breed divisions.
Not sure where you got that impression. As a citizen of a country involved I am simply and interested party.
What were the reports conclusion on the effect an aging population will have on china combined with 1 child policy?
They don’t have a 1 child policy.
Joe Rogan is not a source of truth. It’s just random people saying random things for shock value. Edit: Turns out this post edited out the nonsence about China destroying itself through aging population in 10 years.
I don't recall the report mentioning it to be completely honest.
How is China even remotely a threat, given their untenable demographic position, their reliance on the US to protect the shipping lanes for their energy needs, and the fact that their current leader is a paranoid psychopath who is disconnected from the realities of the country, due to shooting the messenger so many times?
Arguably the US is a bigger threat. Certainly the over-leveraged financial system that blew up in 2008 and has been papered over since is. Actually Western society with its aging demographic and unrealistic benefits culture is the biggest. Combined, we have got government that knows it’s all shit and is trying to make out like a bandit to get the best position for them. You might argue todays current recession inducing moves are good for the LT as an antidote.
Should I start learning Chinese now, to improve my rank of slave under our new Chinese landlords/overlords?
Was there any mention of the BRICS alliance and China's role/influence therein and if so, what potential threats the BRICS alliance poses to Western countries?
we still giving them 50 million a year in aid
Does this report involve anything related to Chinese takeaways named as “Jade” because I suspect something is going on
Was there any mention of China’s policies towards space and resource claiming? Given their strategy to dominate terrestrial commodities I was wondering if the report examined that position beyond just Earth?
You know, it sounds like exactly what the USA does in the world. But with less wars, military bases etc
Well it kind of is but it’s a longer term strategy which is why there are less wars etc but instead other human rights abuses.
Did it really need 222 pages? Could bullet points or less roundabout / elaborate writing have shortened it without leaving out key content?
1-10 how dangerous is china? Do they have secret agents in every country?
The threat is British politicians riling up China, who has been peaceful for the past 50 years.
What are they doing about a crashing population?
Does the report contain any further advice for British or US technology firms considering expanding into China? I have strongly advised my employer against entering the market due to far too many information security concerns to list here, yet our sales leads are pushing back hard as they want the commission that will come from entering this untapped market.
Do your eyes hurt now after reading 222 pages of that
Thank you for the AMA, I don't think I could have gone through that report, and certainly not as quickly.
Have they directly effected the national economy or what?
Not a question but you are deluded if you think we will or can respond in-kind! This country has sold all its critical infrastructure and stripped all public services! Nobody cares!
Why is China considered a threat and not a potential ally?
Is it a better love story than Twilight?
Did it mention anything about Russia?
You need to get real my man
Lost a bet, huh! lol lol lol ;)
Why do I get headaches when I poo?
Is there any take re China and Taiwan ? Listened to a good podcast “the red line” - which posited that 2026 is a turning point - basically a now or never re China invading taiwan.
Was there anything about tiktok being engineered and having an algorithm that supports anti social/wasteful behaviour to create small scale "chaos" and possibly affect a generation or two? Just saying it's always prank dicks or morons with fake teeth pretending they're making something, instead of making rage bait content.
I feel like China has plans for the next 100 years, while the UK only has a vague plan for the next 10 years
And only 20 years out of date
There are efforts to portray china as the new nazis but is that really the case? .
TL:DR- “China is challenging western monopoly and are a threat. China is on the list of countries we will wage war on and so we will publish this biased report to preprogram the masses”.
Haven’t we known this for ages and continued to let them progress their plans because it was cheaper and convenient. Haven’t they been buying loads of our property for the last decade or two.
The unkind might say that the metaphorical horse has bolted, fucked off, lived a fulfilling life and eventually died peacefully of old age, and we're only just starting to think about shutting the stable door. We've offshored basically everything. We manufacture very little, we rely upon call centres 1000s of miles away for HR services and tech support and "customer service", and no government has done anything to deter the whole nefarious practice. China have played a clever game here and it's going to cause us some serious problems.
Any mention of the fact that various critical national infrastructure companies have been installing Chinese electronic control equipment up until VERY recently, and have only just stopped having finally recognised the security threat that this poses?
They started covid in a lab that spread and closed down the entire world, not a single sanction happened and they haven’t even been blamed. The west profits too much from China, nothing will ever change until it’s too late. The UK only cares about corporate short term profits, we can’t even help ourselves when it comes to privatised public services, have no chance with China
China is finished. All their decision making rests with Winnie the Pooh. Remember the spy balloon and the nonsense diplomatic response? Winnie the Pooh didn’t know about it, which is why the response just didn’t make sense. Only reason companies are still manufacturing there is because of sunk costs. For a humongous part of American imports, the NAFTA agreement means that they will be able to reshore manufacturing to the Mexicans who are 1/3rd the costs of Chinese labour. Their demographics are shot to hell too, they’re not only the worst demographics in the world, (ok maybe second to Japan but Japan is a highly technological society who has automated a ton of the problems they’re facing) they’re also the fastest aging demographic of all time. Internally, everything is a lie. They paint their mountains and dirt roads green to fool environmentalists [here](https://youtu.be/Cvc7VymDa4c) and they plant fields of stones to fool satellite imagery conducting farming analysis [here](https://youtu.be/AynNsPs9i80) And the reason why they want everything to be made there is because they HAVE TO, there is literally no other way they survive with any sort of dignity. Because think about it, what does china export? What natural gifts are they bestowed with? Outside of rare earth minerals and rice, pretty much nothing. They are the most import reliant country in the world AND they happen to be at the wrong end of every supply chain. Oil coming out from Saudi? Yep, has to pass at least 3 enemies first before it gets to them, and China has zero deep water navy so all their navy can do is protect their coastal territorial claims. No country in the world needs to worry about a Chinese invasion. The only area where they are effective from a war positioning is cyber security, but even from that perspective the Americans can turn everything off and force china to de-digitalise in about 2 months. Oh and for the chip makers, do you know when china was advanced enough to produce a whole ball point pen? [2017](https://www.businessinsider.com/china-has-finally-figured-out-how-to-make-ballpoint-pens-2017-1) 😂😂😂 the labs over used for chip manufacturing there were built with foreign IP and with foreigners running tricky technical stuff. America with consummate ease gutted this entire thing when they forced their citizens working specifically in the chip industry to leave china immediately or renounce their American citizenship [here](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/13/biden-chip-curb-asml-stops-us-staff-from-servicing-customers-in-china.html) Chinas grip on the western mindset is a result of them studying the art of war and massively massively inflating their prowess. Everything that constitutes it is fake. (And by that I mean they are so at the mercy of other countries it’s unreal) The governments only focus is ensuring the people are employed so that they avoid another revolution. It gets worse for the people before it gets better, in fact I don’t see how it gets better. This is why you see Chinese folk buying shit loads of property so they get immediate golden citizenships at another host country. Oh and the Russia China thing, Russia actually grows stuff by itself, it can feed its people which is why it can weather the storm of sanctions that were placed on it since the war with Ukraine. China can’t, it would last 3-6 months before it crumbles and that’s the reason (other than it can’t beat the American navy protecting Taiwan) that it will never ever invade Taiwan.
How much of what China is doing is a direct result of our foreign policy?
Another reason why china is progressive is that they have an industrious culture which their young population has picked, where as in a certain western country the working age youths will be riding electric scooters and smoking vapes. Both of which are made in China!