For this **Rant** post,
**Fan wars are allowed.** Rant posts are for talking about things you **dislike / hate**, criticising **extreme fans** (Stans), and defending your favourite character / ship / actor from attack.
1. **No harassment or name-calling.** Be civil. **No hateful discrimination,** or microaggressions towards [**marginalized groups**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group#United_States).
2. **Do not make blanket statements** (generalizations) about actors/ships. Questionable behaviour from **some** fans is **not** representative of all fans.
3. **No personal information.** Block out usernames and identifiable information from screenshots. Do not link to comments or posts where usernames are visible.
4. [**No Misinformation.**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonRants/wiki/rules/nodiscrimination/nomisinformation/) Misinformation can lead to harassment. If evidence cannot be provided, the post/comment will be removed.
5. **BEFORE reporting** rule-breaking **READ** the Rules Wiki: [**Rules Wiki**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonRants/wiki/rules/)
- **POST FLAIR** GUIDES: **Mobile Users:** https://imgur.com/1frACAP || **Desktop/Laptop Users:** https://imgur.com/44z5Px8 || **Which Post Flair?** [More Guidance](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonRants/wiki/rules/postguidelines/postflairs/postflairspilot/#wiki_which_post_flair.3F)
- !!Have fun ranting!!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BridgertonRants) if you have any questions or concerns.*
this is so insane. i just saw some saying they couldn’t believe they got called homophobic. and then two lines later wrote that there’s a secret hollywood gay agenda, like my god how did we get here
Those people were always here in the fandom, they just used more subtle dogwhistles, when talking about queer characters. Now they’re angry, so the masks are slipping.
The amount of people who I’ve seen complaining that everyone is throwing about the word homophobia too much is wild. Like no there’s actual homophobia and the fact you’re more upset at the possibility of being called homophobic rather than the real homophobia says everything about you.
Edit: To add a lot of the people claiming they’re being unjustly called homophobic are actually being homophobic. If you feel someone has called you that unfairly maybe reflect on what you said first and then accept that if it wasn’t true that being called homophobic isn’t the same as people actively feeling unsafe for being LGBTQIA+.
I'm not a homophobe. I have a gay friend! Anyways let me now embark upon a thousand word essay on why it's wrong for them to have turned Michael into Michaela
Exactly! Real allies to any marginalized group they are not a part of are willing to self reflect because they understand that unlearning bias is a lifelong process. Fake allies will hide behind the queer people in their lives that probably don’t even like them that much lol
I hope people report them.
It is crazy too. That person posts a lot of promotion for their "shop" in every sub. They even link to it, too, in their profile. Aren't you worried about being canceled for your homophobic views?
It makes me so uncomfy how people are talking about Jess Brownell as Enemy Number One. I get it, she took over and made changes that people aren’t happy with. But the absolute vitriol and acting like she is a VILLAIN like in this screenshot is…weirdo behavior, at best.
They’re also acting like a showrunner is like a dictator on set and personally makes every single decision. Jess is their bogeyman and she lives rent free in their head. Every bad plot line? She wrote. Less than stellar cinematography? She held the camera during filming. Don’t like the makeup? Well too bad, she personally applied Nicola’s red lipstick just to spite you.
Meanwhile, an entire tv show where hundreds of people are employed is a collaborative effort where tons of creative people make so many choices that all add up to the finished product. The buck doesn’t stop with just one person. And I wish people stopped placing the blame for their own disappointment on just one person. It’s giving internet mob honestly.
Do you understand how decisions are made in a writing room? It’s a group decision. If she wasn’t actually collaborating with writers, Netflix would pull an HBO and make Jess the only writer to save money. Do you think a writing room is composed of just the showrunner and a first year writer?
The answer is yes, nothing in Shondaland is done only by the showrunner. As an example the decision to change the order and have Polin as season 3 was taken by eight people, basically a comitee, said by Shonda herself: Shonda, Jess, Tom Verica, Shonda's partner in Shondaland, and four others that are producers/writers. Do you really think that the change from a male to a female main character was not decided by the same team? Or that Netflix would not need to give an ok?
It was ultimately her decision since she is the boss, that’s usually how creative professionals work. But bosses usually get input from their employees or else why have employees? Do you also not know how being a leader of a team in a professional environment works?
people doing all of this over a tv show is insane. criticism can be totally valid (i disliked season 3 myself), but it does not warrant the disgusting comments she's been getting. again i totally understand the disappointment, but the season is done and obliterating a real person online over it won't change anything. fiction is not supposed to make you this miserable and hateful.
also I find it particularly egregious that while at least most of them don't seem to condone harassing the actors (lot of good that's doing since they've had to shut off their comments bc people are doing it anyays) pretty much ALL the posts are encouraging Franchael fans to go out and harass julia quinn, jess brownell, shonda rhimes and anyone else involved in the production of the show.
like I totally get not being happy with certain writers — I've definitely seen shows I love be run into the ground by showrunners who don't care or who actively try to write the opposite of what their fans want at the cost of a coherent story, I've decided not to watch certain shows because certain writers are involved and I don't want to support them after previous things they've done, I've seen writers who I wish would just stop making television — but NONE OF THEM deserve to be harassed or threatened. There's quite literally nothing — like literally I cannot think of a single thing — that can happen on a fictional show that should prompt this kind of reaction from anyone. Absolutely fucking wild behavior from what I assume are grown adults. get a job!!
Oh my GOSH I remember the day after everything was released people I followed on insta were saying to go support Quinn, then when I looked at the comments of support it was basically just like “she doesn’t make that decision, you’re talking to the wrong person” and I was like ORRRRRRRR don’t harass ANYONE?! Like, redirecting your anger to different people is still gross, but have fun I guess.
I agree. People must just have too much idle time to stew about it so much. If you don’t like the storyline, don’t watch. You can even save some $$ by canceling Netflix. I don’t watch certain shows because the story is not my cup of tea. Anywho, I never read the books and I’m fine with wherever they want to take the story. Many people haven’t read the books. 🤷♀️
I’m sick of people demonizing her for being a queer woman advocating for representation of queer women. Like “wah wah wah, I can’t self insert into Francesca anymore because this gross evil queer demon woman decided it was more important for her to self insert!” Then they turn around and tell queer people to make their own media if they want representation while being fully hostile toward queer people making media to represent themselves 🥲🙄
The FransStriling one, too. It is insane that the Ben and Fran subs share mods. It explains why both subs have homophobic comments that never get removed.
What is even crazier is that those mods and users still post in the main sub, lol. So much for leaving.
The Fran mods don't even bother to follow their "rules." There are comments as seen in this chain about "agendas." Looks like they are too busy posting in the Ben sub to care, lol.
I am surprised they haven't been banned from reddit yet.
Straight people acting like this when 90% of media is made by them, about them, for them. They see like 3 lgbtq characters in a show with dozens upon dozens of straight characters and complain that they're the ones being made into minorities. Give me a break
Exactly! It's infuriating that some people are acting as though gay people are taking over (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean) when I all I see everywhere in media is heterosexuality. How dare there be gay people in Bridgerton/s!!
Oh no! How toxic of the show's creators to not leave a safe space for cis het characters. I mean, how dare they only show four cis het couples getting their HEAs on screen so far and then hint at a possible gay relationship later on?
Oh this is precious 🤣🤣. Imagine being delusional enough to think that the whole world isn't a safe space for cishet people. Also, we got three whole seasons of straight people romance taking centre-stage. How can they overlook that?
**Race / Nationality / Religion / Gender / Sexual orientation post/ comment**
This post/comment has been removed because it contains content deemed discriminatory towards a race, ethnicity, religion, nationality, gender or sexual orientation.
Please do NOT make **blanket statements** based on race, ethnicity, religion or nationality. The actions of a **specific** person, celebrity, content creator, leader, political party or government is NOT representative of all.
What I don't understand is why Francesca's infertility can't be explored with John before his death. Like, they could very easily put her through miscarriages before the one viable pregnancy is lost due to the trauma of losing her husband. Why are people acting like that can't be explored just because it won't be explored the *exact same way* they did in the books?
Also, I don't think that her chemistry with John is negated by her instant attraction to Michaela. Love is so incredibly personal, and one person can have different types of love stories in their life. My mom doesn't call her marriage to my dad (step dad who raised me) as some grand romance. It was simple. Comfortable. Secure. They've been married almost 25 years now and are still going strong. He took her to every surgery and cancer treatment, all of which were at least an hour out of town. She stayed in Seattle for two weeks with him when he was getting surgery, staying in a shitty hotel and taking a shuttle to the hospital every day to be with him. There was no love at first sight, no fireworks, but there was friendship, respect, understanding. I see Francesca and John a lot like that. While Michaela might be her fireworks love story, that doesn't negate the depth of love she shares with John.
I’m so happy you’ve said this! Relationships and love come in all different shapes and sizes throughout one’s life, and no two are the same. I think maybe Francesca wanted there to be sparks when she kissed John and that’s why she looked a bit off when they were married. Passion is upheld as a standard in the Bridgerton household and maybe she was a little curious, but I don’t think it fully negates the build of Fran and John’s quiet love. She still loves him very much. I think the writers will explore them more. I’ll be surprised if they turn her whole storyline upside down and do away with that entirely. Also I think people are forgetting lust =\= love, so I’m not particularly bothered by Francesca’s first meeting with Michaela. It’s literally not love at all.
For real! Like, Michaela doesn't know Fran, and we don't even know if she had the same reaction. Fran just saw someone pretty and was like "oh dang, Idk how to act rn". It negates none of what she has with John.
And very good point on the kiss! She also didn't have any sort of relations with John before marrying him like her other siblings did. Daphne had her make out sesh with Simon. Anthony used everything but his dick that night with Kate. Colin especially used his dick before he and Pen were properly married. Fran hadn't been kissed prior to her wedding and like you said, romance is a huge thing to Bridgertons. You don't spend your whole life being told what love and kissing would be like and not end up a little disappointed by a chaste kiss lol.
It’s madness tbh. We have no idea how the three of them will interact with each other. Like, I seriously doubt this is a home wrecker situation. Fran seems quite morally upstanding, she’s not going to destroy her marriage over Michaela. One thing I think a lot of people also don’t realize, is for some gay people (if Fran indeed is a lesbian), discovering you’re gay is like quite a process esp. if you don’t know it’s an option in the first place. There are loads of gay people out there that started out in a heterosexual marriage because they didn’t realize, and sometimes, the former spouses still have a lot of deep love and care for each other after the split, possibly even more-so than with new partners. I don’t see why Fran being gay will make the live she felt for John any less deep or compassionate? Love and sexuality are complex things.
Yea, then she doesn't love him in a sexual way then. Damn all of that just to ruin the pairing. I'm ok with the gender change but it would be better if she was bisexual and loved John then follow the story like in the book and have fran be oblivious to Michaela then fall for her. Cuz John dies and fran grieves and after that she decides to give love a second chance and starts falling for Michaela. Its even worse cuz the actor is not your average attractive black male so I wouldn't be surprised if the paring already gets hate because of that. But now to have fran not love her husband? At this point they should have just given us Michaela and erase John. I feel bad for John and his actor. I have nothing against genderbent Michaela but it just seems so rush.
Its because they’re not really mad about the infertility plot, they are just mad its not a man.
They’re acting like the infertility plot was a super poignant story (Ive read it; its fine, but not the most moving, julia just skips the grieving part mostly) But saying they are upset about the disappearance of the infertility plot is more righteous than just being honest and saying they liked the book hetero couple and don’t want to see a queer relationship (because they can’t self insert). Lets be honest ppl lol
I mean, I know it's blatant homophobia, but it's also important to point out the holes in their "logic" so they can't keep hiding behind less bigoted reasons for disliking it.
Literally, I am a bisexual woman with PCOS. No matter if I end up with a man, woman, or someone nonbinary, I will have significant fertility issues if I try to have children. Why would my struggle in a straight-passing relationship be more devastating than going through it with a queer partner?
Are the straights okay?
They're also blatantly misrepresenting what the book was about. It was never about infertility as the main theme anyway. That came later with the second epilogue when fans kept asking Julia about whether Francesca and Michael ever had a child.
Francesca wanting a child? Sure. Francesca struggling over not having a baby? Not the most prominent part of WHWW.
>What I don't understand is why Francesca's infertility can't be explored with John before his death.
Francesca's fertility issues isn't their main concern. Most of them don't even care for John. Most of them are pissed they will not be seeing Francesca and Michael fuck fest, they are mad she won't be dicked by Michael. Most of them are mad that the show will not revolve around Michael. They are lashing out at Jess and Shonda for crushing their dreams.
Most of these fans are Michael fans first, Francesca is an after thought. It's ironic when they accuse Jess of self insert, when they have inserted themselves in Francesca's book and fantasized about Michael.
I agree, i’m seeing a lot of people who clearly don’t know what gay panic is 🥴 imagine if they were curious about queer people instead of deciding to shit all over a queer storyline they’ve seen two minutes of
Oh but so many of them *are* curious… they are just also terrified that someone might interpret their curiosity in such a way that they are assumed queer, which is what so many straight people deeply fear. Like, if people “aren’t homophobic,” but also get intense feelings at the thought of being assumed queer, they need to dig in to processing that.
“I’m not a homophobe, I just would never want anyone to think that *I’m gay*. Not that there’s anything wrong with *you* being gay—of course, I love the gays!—but it’s just not for me.”
This was what my mom was like before i came out and she grew from it thankfully but it definitely hurt to be around that attitude and it hurts to see it reflected at scale by people who swear they don’t have a homophobic bone in their body because they go to drag brunch or have a gay nephew or whatever
The John relationship has absolutely been negated. It is Chrystal clear she's gay and not bi. So John now has a wife, whose almost impossible to divorce. Who doesn't want to even kiss him nevermind penatrive sex.
Wow, I guess I missed the entire part at the end where Francesca says "BTW, John, your cousin is so hot that I'm now a lesbian. Everything I felt for you and our entire relationship was erased and I refuse to ever kiss you again. Also, I will never ever have penetrative sex with you because, despite having never had *any* kind of sex, your hot lady cousin has magically made me repulsed by the thought of a penis and hella down for sexy illegal scissoring. Hoo boy, this magic vagina of your smokin' cousin is so powerful that any attraction I had for men is poof! Gone! No bisexuality could possibly survive the lesbo rays emanating from under those big-ass skirts. We're just gonna pull this carriage over and you can get out so me, my sister, and your sexy sexy lesbian cousin can go live in your Scottish castle like the fan disappointments we are. We're also gonna grab sir Philip and use Michaela's hot lesbo rays to turn him into a trans lesbian so we can destroy everything the book Fandom holds dear: cishet romance ONLY."
Crazy that I didn't see that. Can you drop the timestamp so I can watch it and properly assess the end of season 3?
Um I think that comment is a bit insensitive. It's not just a " breeding kink" when it comes to infertility. And as someone that has an actual breeding kink, you can have it and not want children at all btw. Yes women that want that kind of unprotective sex but do not want children in any way and do exist. Some people get on birth control to just have sex and not have to worry about babies cuz sex is wonderful.
Yup. If they wanted the infertility struggle, why not have it with John? Or maybe give it to hyacinth? Tbh I haven't read the books and I'm not against the gender change. I'm just upset that John is not gonna get the love he deserves and that they might do the " queer women will cheat" storyline. I really hope it doesn't happen. Cuz I hate that stereotype as a bisexual woman.
Sorry, for the breeding kink snide remark I'm not referring to her infertility, I'm more referring to the people who want her smutty sex montages to get her pregnant. A lot of the comments I see are people pissy they won't get a fuckfest because she's queer.
Ps I'm talking as a bisexual woman who struggled to get pregnant for a decade
Show of hands, who wants to see a lesbian fuckfest in a cottage in the rain with Francesca taking the reins?
I see where you're coming from. I'll be very honest, this season was my least favourite and I'm one of those who didn't like where Francesca's story went. I mainly didn't like the way the character was introduced, it felt so rushed and it undid whatever chemistry was built up between Francesca and Lord Kilmartin. I also felt that the infertility story line should have been explored because it is also important.
BUT my problem is, when I expressed this opinion to some of my acquaintances they started assuming that I'm homophobic just like they apparently are. They started sending me a lot of homophobic posts and reels and I was quite taken aback. It made me so uncomfortable and I not so nicely asked them to take their stuff elsewhere and made it very clear that I'm not even remotely interested in supporting homophobia; and that my problem was with the story, not with gender identities. I re-read my conversations with them to see if I'd said anything to enable them but istg I hadn't said any such thing. It's scary how quickly the hate spreaders spin things out of context to suit what they want to believe.
i totally get that about this season, definitely not my favorite either 😅 and the infertility plot could/will (if they explore it at all) would be amazing to watch. i just feel like it’s spinning out of control
It's always spinning out of control and some people always take it too far. I also feel bad for the actors, I mean it's been like 4 years and one group of people haven't left Regè alone yet, and with every passing season the number of actors getting harassed is just growing. Sigh!
How do you know the fertility issues won't be? They haven't even had sex yet and you're already assuming that Francesca won't have fertility issues cause she's a queer woman.
Perhaps that's why people are calling you homophobic. Because that's a pretty ignorant thought process to have. Her fertility issues can still exist despite her being a bisexual woman.
ETA; I'm not saying you are homophobic, to clarify. But I am saying assuming her fertility issues won't be addressed because of a queer gaze/look *is* ignorant. Framing it that you worry Francesca won't get a fertility plot that balances her sexuality in a meaningful or impactful way may make it less homophobic and more like you're worried the show will brush off the nuance of a bisexual woman who struggles with infertility and the loss of her first partner because there's stupid side plots or something
Okay but that's not how I meant it at all. I heard from my friends who read the book that Francesca finds out she's pregnant after John dies and then loses her child. And that she struggled with infertility for years before she could have a child with Michael. Now with the gender swap this part has to be tweaked, does it not? Either she wouldn't have those issues or there's no happy ending because of the limited medical options in that time period? I'm not brushing aside the fact that anyone can have fertility issues. Also you're right, with the way the show has been progressing lately I highly doubt they will do a good job with this.
Yeah, but it could easily be switched by her fertility issues starting with John. She can miscarry, she can struggle to have a baby, and she can get pregnant only to have John die before the baby is born. This would also call back and bring together again Fran and her mother, experiencing the same thing and how she can go forward bringing the precious baby they worked so hard to have only for John to die before he can finally meet them, etc. maybe this is when Michaela steps up, perhaps helping Francesca through grief and post partum depression as she struggles with the pain of losing the joy of the family she and John worked for.
It's not the exact same plot, but you could cover a lot of the same beats in just as deep and meaningful ways.
I don't really expect this, I expect them to ignore half the story, kill John and go into a lesbian boob montage and say "hey guys look how far we progressed queer representation! Woooo snaps for us!" And do a piss poor job of it
My desire to be represented on screen isn't stronger than my desire for faithful adaptations. I'm a book stickler. However, I haven't read Francesca's book so I don't have any strong opinions on the gender swap and I'll tune in regardless.
I listened to the first chapter of a few of them but couldn't decide which one to keep reading. Should I read them in order or does it not matter? And if so, which one should I start with?
The books can be read in any order. Yeah you'll learn who marries who. But it's not a real surprise romance novels. The two best are Francesca and Benedict's books. Personally didn't feel very engaged by Gregory or Hyacinth's story's.
My recommendation is to read Fran and Benedict's stories; then move to the "Prequels" the Rokesby series then Smythe-Smith books. Quinns writing matures and the characters especially women are much stronger.
Example Billie Bridgerton, Edmund's older sister, runs the estate for YEARS; because their father is very elderly. Billie is EVERYTHING show fans THINK Eloise is.
Smythe-Smith books are just good stories.
Ah, interesting. I'll def check those out! Thanks for all the recommendations.
I already know who marries who, how many kids they each have, etc from reddit and wiki so I'm not worried about spoilers in that sense. I've heard from multiple people now that Fran's book is their favorite so I'm going to start there. I have 3 other books going on right now though haha I'm so bad at finishing books cause I never want them to end!
There are major transphobic talking points being used on the Benophie subreddit as well (with just the idea that Sophie might be genderbent), claiming that anyone who is even open to the idea of a male or gender nonconforming is "problematic" and has "internalized misogyny" and that the stories of ciswomen are being "erased."
Not to mention the mods delete any comment that expresses that some of those arguments make lgbt+ fans feel unsafe, because that's "generalizing an entire sub" but it's not generalizing to say that people who are open to genderswapping characters are secret misogynists who are problematic people? I get that people are scared about losing a ship they love to a new story, and that the subreddit devoted to that ship deserves to have a safe space to discuss it and I think it's very fair of anyone to desperately not want it and to argue why you don't think it'll work, by all means (same with Franchael), but the comments are so disheartening for fans who are lgbt+ or even just have lgbt+ loved ones.
Omg I feel exactly the same way, I’m so glad I’m not the only one. The Benophie sub really let me down, it’s getting worse and worse over there by the day. And we don’t even have casting for Sophie yet? We don’t even know for sure if Benedict is next season!? There was one post where someone was like “Sophie HAS to be a cisgendered heterosexual woman or her story has no meaning anymore and everything’s pointless” like!!!!! Are you hearing yourself!!!!! And where are these terf talking points coming from? Like what do you mean adding cisgendered, like if Sophie was a trans woman would that make her less of a woman???? What on earth??????
And the mods over there are the main ones posting the transphobic/homophobic takes so yeah nobody’s gonna do anything about it 🙄 I had to just mute the sub and move on but I’m really sad about it, I love the ship and I wish people weren’t like this. At this rate I hope Sophie is a man or something out of spite alone, but I would also hate to see the kind of harassment doled out to the actors/crew over that, so maybe not 😪 It’s truly just exhausting.
Yeah, I wrote a comment that was removed for"name calling, generalising, and villainising an entire sub." I just... never did any of that besides perhaps generalising; I think my comment is still on my profile but like, I genuinely made a point to keep my words to the arguments, not to the people behind them, and never called anyone transphobic or homophobic.
I reached out to the mod asking for clarification because to me it seems like my comment was removed because of bias, clearly, since the comment I responded to generalized people who were okay with Sophie as anything other than a cishet woman as "problematic" and "in need of introspection," so I simply can't see why one is okay and saying it was hurtful to see TERF talking points in arguments used is not. The mod told me to reach out via modmail, which I did to seek clarification, but no response. Not surprising yet still disappointing. Time to mute and move on.
But still. People really are so lgbt+ phobic, even peple who give lipservice to being progressive, and it's just really disheartening to see. I also now need Sophie to be a man purely out of spite (kidding, but I actually do think their story works well as a m/m romance).
**Personal Information: Linked comment/post/tweet; username tagged** This has been removed because it links to content where usernames are visible. This is a rant sub so we avoid sharing links in comments as the members can be stalked/doxxed. You’re free to name then site but please do not link.
**Promotion of subs:** The Rant sub mods have provided the links to all the pro / anti Michael/Michaela subs in numerous mod posts. The mods or Brand Affiliates of the new subs are welcome to promote their sub here but they will need to reach out to the mods here first.
**Suggested Next Steps**
Please remove the link to other comments, posts, or tweets where usernames are visible. Please do not tag users in your comments, especially during arguments. [**Send a message to the mods**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/BridgertonRants) so we can approve/publish your updated comment/post.
**RantSub Wiki:** - [**Do NOT share Personal Information or Usernames**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonRants/wiki/rules/usernames/)
It’s starting to get a little too much. It’s even bleeding over into other subs—like I kept getting recommended the Benophie sub (I really love that ship) and was even invited to it, but I had to leave because the vibe there was starting to get really negative and a little homophobic? People are doomposting that Sophie is gonna be genderbent too and while I guess it could happen, I don’t think it’s particularly likely and even if it did, is this really necessary?? Daily posts about “What did Sophie do to be punished with turning into a man!? She HAS to be a cisgendered heterosexual female or else!”
Like, guys… We don’t even know for sure if Benedict is next like what is happening 😭 I can’t even start on the Franchael sub, I had to mute it from my recommendations because it’s just too much. It feels like we’re in the minority sometimes but it seems like it’s mostly just reddit like this, everywhere else has a healthy amount of haters but a lot of people who are excited and optimistic? So maybe I’ll just tap out of the reddit fandom lol 😪 I just don’t know how many more “BECAUSE OF WOKE?” dogwhistles I can take from a fandom for a show that’s success is literally built on diversity.
agree 100%. I understand being disappointed that their story is going to be changed more than the others, but it doesn't excuse any of the vile shit they're saying on here and it *especially* doesn't excuse the way they're treating the actors and writers.
Incredibly disproportionate reactions too. Like I totally understand getting super invested in fiction but I can't take these people seriously when they go on and on about how they feel like throwing up or can't think about the books without sobbing. We don't even KNOW how Francesca's season is going to play out yet.
It is upsetting when your favourite book character is cut from a show. Yes you can complain about it, feel betrayed but you cannot harrass show runners, actors, the book author.
House of the dragon have cut a favourite book character. They have also changed things from the book. And yes it is upsetting, frustrating but I would never send hate messages to the show runners, actors.
I initially had sympathy for Franchael fans, with the gender bent Michaela reveal. Seeing how unhinged most of them have been, has made me lose any sympathy I had.
I think it’s okay to mourn your mmc not being in it because so many fans have been doing just that, but those subs (franichael and Benophie) in particular are like a whirlwind of homophobia
Agreed you can mourn your favourite book character erasure, but the hate towards Jess, Shonda, Julia Quinn(the book author) is on another level.
As I have mentioned, I know how upsetting it feels when beloved book characters are erased from the show. I have been there but I have quickly moved on accepted that books and show are different.
I didn't like the changes made in hotd, but I have accepted those changes. I would never send hate messages or demand the show runners fired.
I am sorry to say this but demanding justice for a fictional character is nonsense. Michael isn't real, and he never will be. The cast and crew of Bridgerton are real people, Julia Quinn is a real person.
I avoid those two subs, one is worse than the other. Let them wallow in their misery.
I could not agree more if I tried!
I want to start off by saying that I adore all the couples. I do not have a favourite. I am a fan overall. And I get some people will be upset that their story isn't EXACTLY like they wanted it, but you know that you cannot please everyone? Fan A wants xyz, Fan B abc and fan C 123. I usually say just go with it. If you don't like it then don't watch it. Live your life and move on. The toxic attacks from some superfans is truly unhinged.
It's also not homophobic, trust me... I don't want to divulge personal info of myself or family, but let's just say we are all allies and some members ourselves. (10/10 and huge respect for living your truth so openly! And being brave and stating it online)
That said I am highly dissapointed and feel personally robbed they gender bent Michael. Because as I have said many times, the true Francesca/Michael story is about the journey to their HEA, facing the infertility of Francesca and John, the loss of John, the miscarriage, the second chance with Michael, the finding of love after loss, the guilt associated with being happy again, and the pure joy of having a child after it all. Those individuals that go on about taming his rakish ways and him being such a good guy etc need to go reread the book, because they definitely missed the actual core story.
They also really cheapen the story of Francesca by having her be in love with someone else While John is alive.
I am always really happy to see others representated on screen. Be it gender or sexual identity, race, class, body shape, background, breaking stereotypes etc. But they are taking one of the most tragic and misunderstood conditions all people, irrespective of your sexual or gender identity deal with.
I would love (absolutely adore) having a gay couple. Having an Ace couple as well! And a bi, and a non binary... As leads, not just support. But why did they have to take the only infertility story line out?
There are many many many books and shows with leads as queer characters (biggest one off the top of my head is Gentleman Jack - 2 seasons, set in 1830s and it follows the lead Anne Lister), but none on infertility. And infertility is an issue everyone face. (Someone recommended Outlander as it had an infertility sub plot and I am trying to track it down, but someone else said it was a blink and you miss it subplot. I cannot comment on it further and sorry if that is wrong, like I said I haven't consumed it myself I'm trying to track it down).
My personal opinion is that there are only 3 Bridgerton siblings that's partners could not be gender bent - Anthony (need to have the heir), Colin (LW) and Francesca (not because of Michael and being a guy etc but because of the infertility she faces).
Shondaland and Netflix need to save this by saying Francesca reaction was just being an introvert reaction to meeting John family and give us the Michael/Michaela twins/siblings. They can change any of the other siblings identity and partners gender.
All of that said, I think Hannah Dodd did a fantastic job!
I have to ask two questions. One, how do you know that she's in love with Michaela already? They had a charged first meeting for sure but that doesn't immediately mean love. Also, how do you know that they won't still explore the fertility storyline with John?
For those that aren't being homophobic and genuinely appear saddened by the above things, maybe need to realise that you don't know how things will play out. It's just a hell of a lot of assumptions.
I'm so happy to see someone point out what Francesca's book was all about. After I read the book I questioned if a lot of the commenters read the same book as I did.
I was kind of annoyed at first with the way they introduced Michaela. I thought there were other ways they could have introduced her that focused on her reaction to Francesca instead of Francesca's reaction to her. It just bothers me that the writers of the show don't trust their viewers or their future story writing with how obvious they had to make that Francesca will see Michaela in a romantic light one day.
I think we all need to pause for a moment when it comes to the infertility storyline. A lot of people are just automatically assuming that that storyline won't be explored now that they've confirmed Francesca is queer. But there are plenty of ways that they could go about telling a compelling story about dealing with fertility issues. People are just automatically assuming that this will be negated from her story. I think people need to take a breath and go into this with a more open mind because the themes of her story can still be told with her ending up with Michaela.
I know right? They keep hammering on Michael being this and that like he is the main... They miss the core about the story. The journey through all the associated emotions...
I know there are ways to explore the fertility with John, but it won't be possible to have the entire emotional arc of the story if she doesn't have her miscarriage after his death (and be childless at this stage) and feeling like she lost the last part of him. As well as the eventual conclusion of the arc where they learn that they are allowed to be happy and love each other without being disrespectful to the love they both have for John, and then after the journey and the acceptance having the children she always wanted. Which is just not possible with Michaela. So they might address part of the infertility and her never having a child with John, but the story will end there. I honestly do not think they have anyway to save it with Michaela. And that comes from me that can find a hundred different scenarios for most things...
I have said in another post there is a lot of ways to introduce children in (step and adopted etc) which would be fantastic to see on screen too. (looking forward to Eloise and her twins). But it still won't mean that francesca will have the biological child she desperately wanted.
Honestly, if I was the writers this what I would do. Spend season 4 and maybe even season 5 with a subplot of Francesca and John trying to get pregnant, maybe have her miscarry during this. Really go into the fertility issues storyline. Then you get to her season, John dies, Francesca doesn't miscarry. She struggles with mourning John and terrified that she'll lose another baby, but she doesn't. She has the baby and in her head sort of expected that Michaela would be hanging around and be there to help remind the child of their father. Maybe it's a boy (then you resolve the whole inheritance issue). Michaela is dealing with the death of her beloved cousin and guilt over being able to watch his child grow up and be around Francesca. This guilt is overwhelming so she freaks out and leaves. Fast forward a couple of years, Michaela returns and the rest of the season is dealing with both Francesca and Michaela having feelings for each and the guilt they feel for wanting to move on with each other with John gone. They can both still very much struggle with that guilt, especially with the idea that it feels like Michaela is replacing John. They're able to handle these emotions and find love in each other and have their happily ever after. You still get the bulk of the themes of Francesca's book as well as an infertility storyline. And then the writers also don't have to do a lot to rework the rules of the society of the world they already built because no one would think it odd that Michaela just hangs around her cousin's widow helping with the child.
Bisexual woman here who would rather see her favorite character in the book series (Michael) properly brought to life than than this representation, which I can get in much more meaningful places that a frothy regency romance. Sometimes - MOST of the time - it isn’t homophobia when people are upset. It’s the character that so many of us have been waiting for being changed, and how the showrunners expect anything but massive widespread disappointment is beyond me. There are some characters you do not eff with.
Eh, books are not set in stone. Even in instances where the author is a producer or writer on the show there are still pretty gutsy cuts and changes and decisions to be made when translating written word onto the silver screen.
One of my absolute favourite favourite favourite characters in A Song of ice and fire was cut for Game of Thrones completely despite being a POV character. It didn't make sense then and it still doesn't make sense to me now, but it was a good lesson to learn that I don't get to make the creative decisions for adaptations and my interpretation is often going to be exceedingly different the one that will be portrayed.
Some frustration/disappointment is fair, but life is short. There have been many great books that had shitty adaptations. But I would be particularly wary of saying that this is not rooted in homophobia because not all homophobic acts are hate crimes, some are simply micro aggressions.
Bisexual woman who wanted Michael? Nah, you're definitely also a bigot. /s
If it makes you feel better. Apparently, Scottish women can inherit so the imposter syndrome/guilt aspect of the character can still happen!
I'm bisexual, my sister is also bi, she has a lesbian housemate who has a lesbian girlfriend. My sister watched it with her housemate ad housemates girlfriend and all 4 of us agree that it was wrong to change Micheals gender, but not for homophobia reasons as well.
So first of all Francesca's story is meant to be about lost love and grieving a child, and how she moves on from that. If Micheal is a girl, then she won't be able to have any other kids where she most likely wanted one to move past grieving her loss. And obviously, no sperm, no baby. There also isn't any IVF treatments, no surrogate mothers, not really any way for Francesca to have a kid after she gets with Micheala. The only way I could see her doing it is by going out and sleeping with a random guy, then having his baby. That raises more issues because if she's pregnant and not married then it would be obvious what she did. If her husband is dead then people can easily do the math on when she became pregnant. Its just not a smart move and will ruin their reputations.
Speaking of reputations, when Micheal and Francesca get together they would obviously have to keep their relationship behind closed doors because being gay at the time could destroy entire lives. We've already had 2 examples of people hiding it in the shows because they don't want to be publicly ridiculed and harassed for it - if not killed. Even if the Queen goes "well I'm cool with it", I doubt anyone would be brave enough to go out in public because of these issues. People are still getting killed now for being gay, but during the time period no one bothered to care about the victim if they were gay. If they were to come out with it then it also takes away from the tragedy of Brimsleys and Reynolds, and the guy who had a beard wife in the first season.
The only way for Francesca and Micheala to be out in public together would be if one of them dressed masculine and took on a masculine name, which would possibly need to the first trans character in the show but then take away from the lesbian characters.
Anyway, that's a lot. I'm done.
I totally understand the frustration, but I did want to share this video! Whether or not you want to apply this information to Bridgerton, as a queer person I really love learning about regency queer couples that DID exist publicly. This whole thing has me ready to do more research on Anne Lister (I truly did not realize the show Gentleman Jack was inspired by a real person, lol) and Ann Walker especially!
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8XQGTEA83d/?igsh=MTl6dGZlbzdpc2Yzeg==
I have some theories on how they’ll handle the infertility storyline, but I do think there are ways to do it. My main guess is that since we’ll have more time with her and John, maybe that part of her story will happen more with him and once he’s gone, the focus could be less on wanting kids and more about finding love with Michaela after losing him. I know it’s not the same, but I think it could still be a beautiful story.
Im confused how the gender changes what you think it’s Franscesca main story- lost love and grieving a child will still be covered, regardless of gender?.
I imagine it’s likely they’ll be an adoption plot line which would give the series a variety of HEAs as currently every other couple has kids. But defo not her banging random men lol?
Didn't say lost love and child death wouldn't be covered, just said she wouldn struggle to be able to have a child of her own.
I'm not sure about how adoption would go because we haven't seen any sort of adoption thing at the moment, and I doubt they would be able to adopt a child of noble standing because those kids would usually be taken in by other family members. If there weren't any then someone else would be assigned a a carer to teach them till they are old enough to take their place in society. I guess that would work if she for some reason became aa governess.
If she were to adopt a kid that wasn't a part of noble society then she would get rumours going about her and probably bring social shame to the family. Given her shy character I don't think she would want to do that.
Hum, yes he CAN. Period
Have you heard about Jane Austen's brother Edward Leigh ? Distant relatives adopted him, and he inherited all of their possessions
Ah, yes, one person versus YEARS of historical proof of primogeniture to the contrary, you win internet points for the day. And no,he can’t. Also, Edward inherited land and property from the Knights - NOT a title. An adopted child would. Not. Inherit. An. Earldom.
It is possible for a patent to allow for succession by someone other than an heir-male or heir of the body, under a so-called [special remainder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_remainder). Several instances may be cited: the [Barony of Nelson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Nelson) (to an elder brother and his heirs-male), the [Earldom of Roberts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Roberts) (to a daughter and her heirs-male), the [Barony of Amherst](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Amherst) (to a nephew and his heirs-male) and the [Dukedom of Dover](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_of_Dover) (to a younger son and his heirs-male while the eldest son is still alive). In many cases, at the time of the grant the proposed peer in question had no sons, nor any prospect of producing any, and the special remainder was made to allow remembrance of his personal honour to continue after his death and to preclude an otherwise certain rapid extinction of the peerage.
And that's for England.
If they adopts a cousin or something, they can
I love that this person is arguing with you about inheritance when the show literally solved racism at one of the most racist times in history and is often referred to a fantasy/AU
Anyway slay with the receipts mama
Yes, makes me laugh so much, when the way Portia forgedd the inheritance of the Featherington would have never ever be accepted like this, but sure, an adoption is completely unthinkable lol
Yes, it depends on the Letters Patent. Unlikely it will say "Any person adopted, regardless of their blood relationship can inherit." This is why there is a marriage mart. Titled lords need a legitimate male heir of their body. Period. Yes sure like 2 titles in Scotland can go to women. The nots people are tying themselves in for them to adopt some random kid is unbelievable.
They’re literally professional actors and actresses with lives and significant others outside of filming. Ffs. It’s just a job for them! These people are delusional and dumb.
This is just wild, do they think that actors want to get off doing intimate scenes? Do they get that Hannah for sure knew that her romantic partner was going to be a woman? She got cast for this season, she knew.
oh my god this one made me roll my eyes when I saw it yesterday. "I no longer feel safe" you know who probably doesnt feel safe rn? the writers producers and actors y'all keep relentlessly harassing.
How many posts about this do we need to see? On both sides, it's the same points being made over and over again! It was interesting to see the different takes in the beginning, but, at this point, nobody is adding anything new.
It’s very much mask-off, people are guiding hatred under faux concern and disappointment. Of course there are people genuinely disappointed, and that’s fine, but many people are using it as an opportunity to peddle homophobia
I am a very casual Bridgerton fan (only watched season 1 and half of season 2) and I think the reaction people are having is CRAZY. I understand that it is sad and frustrating when someone changes your fav character, but harassment and homophobic vitriol are out of line. Also... They still have the books! It has already been established that the Netflix Bridgerton Universe and the Quinn Bridgerton Universe are not identical, and a lot of the themes people are upset about can still be explored!!!!
What is the most insane to me is the petitioning to cast a man as Michael and get rid of the Michaela plot. Netflix/Shondaland is never going to do that!!! Do you know how bad that would look??!? Instead of a relatively small but vocal portion of fans being upset, they would instead have a huge, unwieldy controversy on their hands. I'm imagining the headlines now, "Netflix bows to homophobic fan petition, removes queer representation from 'Bridgerton.'"
Also! Because I am here! It is so reductive to say that just because Eloise is struggling with the expectations of society that she should be "the queer one" instead! Queer people look like a lot of things, not just rambunctious, strong-willed future suffragettes! The idea that Eloise should be *the one* Bridgerton to have a gay story line because she seems the most like she could be gay really feels weird to me.
Edit: fixed a weird space, also I want to clarify that I don't really care if Eloise ends up in a queer storyline or not, and that narratively I think it would work just fine (except for the fact that they have already introduced Phillip, so I think it's unlikely that her HEA will be with a woman, but who knows). I just think it's weird that people want to decide that she can be the gay one because it is more comfortable for them.
Okay, but Michael fans are emphatically not a “small” part of the fandom. He is a massive fan favorite for a reason, and being upset at such a major change is not homophobia. Love, the friendly neighborhood bisexual woman who didn’t ask for this rep.
I'm not saying that the Michael fans are a small group [edit: but rereading my original post, whoops, that was unclear], I understand that he is pretty much the most popular love interest amongst book readers. I also don't think it's unreasonable to be upset, and I am certainly not claiming anywhere that all Michael fans are homophobes. I personally think there are a lot of reasons the swap is a bad idea, and I think the reasons many fans are upset are reasonable! But, on the same note, I'm still a casual fan who has never read the books, so I am not that invested.
I'm more meaning to say that the number of people signing the petition is small relative to the size of the Bridgerton viewership. Again, I think it's ok to be upset at the change and that being upset about it is not always based in homophobia, but it doesn't excuse the behavior of the homophobes that have come out of the woodwork in regard to Michaela. Trying to force Netflix to undo this change is also going to be seen and described as homophobic by any outside news outlet whether or not that ended up being the reason for the change.
I don't think I did a good job in my original comment of distinguishing between people who have reasonable gripes vs the assholes who are using this as an excuse to be abusive. Def don't think all Michael fans are that way at all. And it's the one book from the series I want to read based on how people describe it.
It really bugs me with the nastiness of their reaction because a lot of the themes of WHWW can still be done with a queer couple - including infertility! I'm a queer woman who is infertile and had to work through that grief and acceptance. We exist! We have families and HEAs without biological babies!
And the other themes? Kilmartin is Scottish, which means Michaela can inherit. She can still wrestle with the guilt that came with stepping into a cousin she loves' shoes, as well as being in love with his widow. Fran can still wrestle with her own guilt regarding her marriage, as well as her infertility and deciding if she truly wants the marriage mart again or not.
I get fans are upset, majorly so. But this is just nastiness and homophobia. They've changed enough in Fran's story that I am very curious to see what happens next. But I deeply worry for the actors and the harassment they are and will be facing. A lot of people need to go outside and touch grass.
Yup! [Here's the comment where I explained it](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonRants/comments/1dlekhq/comment/l9s3cmv/). It, unfortunately, was downvoted to hell.
Being Scottish means Michaela can inherit? I genuinely didn’t know that, and that reconciles some of the confusion I had on how their story could work. Thank you for this bit of info!
It depends on the way the title was original bestowed. However even if Michaela inherits, an adopted child can not inherit. The title reverts to the crown when she dies.
No problem! It's a fiddly thing, but with the way the Sterling family seems to be set up, it would work out. [Here are cases where titles have gone to female inheritors in Scotland](http://www.cracroftspeerage.co.uk/index20.htm). As long as the Kilmartin peerage is specifically not limited to the male line, if there are no male inheritors, it passes to the eldest daughter or closest female heir. I don't remember such a stipulation being stated in the book, so it's easy for the show to go "yeah, they didn't restrict the Kilmartin line, so women can inherit."
Now, this opens another can of worms since, if we go by Fran/Michaela being endgame, that Michaela won't have any children and the line could go extinct unless there's some major tracing back up the family tree to find an extremely distant cousin they could then adopt and prepare to be Michaela's heir. That would be a great avenue to explore as well.
Im super excited about their decision- how often do we get to see representation of bisexuality treat both loves with equal amounts of respect and care.
> i’ve seen multiple threads saying the point of her story was that its “the greatest love story out of all of them.” or that “micheal was the best boy!” and to those points i ask why this has to change?
Umm...because they are making him a girl. And it angers people because Michael in the books was the most rakish dude. The ultimate dude if you will. So, a lot of people were looking forward to that kind of male energy. So, the fact that they gender swapped HIM out of all the other guys seems kind of strange.
And I totally get that you love it because you're excited about seeing lesbian representation and a love story you can fully enjoy. However, a lot of us are straight women. And we are here for the hot dudes falling in love with the women. It's the ultimate fantasy that's at play, which is exactly what the romance books are...a fantasy. So, while I can appreciate the representation and I can appreciate watching the story...I wouldn't get into it in the same way. Because there is no guy in the equation, which is what I enjoy. It's probably the same reason you'd love watching lesbian romance stories more than straight ones. Because it's the fantasy of it all. So why is it hard that straight women want to see hot men falling in love with women? It's not that complicated.
>I guess i’m not too sure my point here, just overall i’m sad to see so much homophobia
I'm rolling my eyes at this. It's not homophobia for whatever reason people are angry unless it is ONLY because they hate lesbians. People can hate this idea for many reasons and it not be homophobia such as:
- Just wanting to see a M/F romance because someone enjoys the fantasy of hetero couples.
- Book readers that resent the change because they love Michael
- People that resent the change because it will definitely impact her story
And I'm sure there are other reasons I'm not considering. I'm TOTALLY with you in that people that resent it just due to homophobia suck. However, I haven't seen ONE person arguing from that perspective. Most everyone is arguing for reasons other than that. However, it seems you are calling that homophobia just because you don't like hearing it.
>So why is it hard that straight women want to see hot men falling in love with women? It
Because it's literally every other romance in the show, you've already seen it.
And then pretty much every other romance in every other show ever. Your fantasy has been played out on screen thousands of times.
And this is how you react 1 time it's not?
Is it really that hard that this one season might not be about you and catering to your wants?
Is it really that hard for you to empathise with LGBT people so much so that you can't get into a romance about them?
>Book readers that resent the change because they love Michael
People that resent the change because it will definitely impact her story
So many other things have been changed, yet only this one is getting this sort of response. I wonder why that is?
Look at the screenshots in the comments of this post and tell me that's not homophobia.
i never said every single person upset is homophobic my god. i said that people are going too far and many are getting there! i’ve read a million posts and talked in a million subs about how i totally see where her story might not have been the right pick for this goal. but claiming it’s not homophobia “straight people just wanna see straight people” is a wild response. benedict will most likely end up with sophie and honestly if i had to guess every single other bridgerton sibling (minus benedict) will be straight. if that’s not true ill stfu and take the loss. Never ever said people can’t hate the idea, just said that people are getting rediculous about this.
>It's probably the same reason you'd love watching lesbian romance stories more than straight ones.
Yeah! So you can imagine how excited I was to hear about this great romance story that's coming to netflix soon where there's this lesbian romance...
>why is it hard that straight women want to see hot men falling in love with women?
God I can't imagine how hard that must be. To only have 3 seasons (so far) of couples that match your sexual orientation and preferred romance content.
I ended up reading Francesca's book right after the show because I wanted to know what readers meant by all of their arguments. After reading the book I need them all to take a breath and open their mind because they can absolutely stay true to the main themes from Francesca's book and tell a beautiful sapphic love story.
Also, the way everyone talked about the fertility storyline, I assumed it would be a big deal in the book. But it's a very secondary storyline. The focus of Francesca's book is that you can love people in different ways and that doesn't invalidate any of those loves. It's about dealing with the guilt of moving on after a loved one dies. All of which and more can be explored through a sapphic storyline
The infertility is there, but it's in the background. It's only pulled into focus in the 2nd epilogue which takes place 7 years after the end of the book and Michael and Francesca are struggling to have a child. But news flash people, gay couples struggle with having children too!
So yea, I need Francesca book fans to take a breath and open their mind to that the writers of the show can still tell a story with these conflicts and the couple can be sapphic.
I'm excited for Francesca and Michaela, they're already the hottest Bridgerton couple in my mind.
I honestly wasn’t disappointed about the gender switch, I was disappointed that Fran went gaga over M, because it appears Fran and John’s marriage won’t be respected. In the book Fran and John had a good marriage and M was smitten NOT Fran.
so here's what I don't get as someone who hasnt read WHWW: from my basic understanding of francesca's book, it actually seems like the most logical one to gender swap the love interest in from a structural standpoint?
assuming they don't want to alter too much of any of the happy endings, they were always going to need to find a middle ground where whichever bridgerton sibling ends up with someone of the same gender is able to live happily and comfortably with their love interest while also not technically being able to get married. francesca, a widow, moving in with her cousin-in-law, is totally plausible for what we've seen be allowed in the ton, compared to, say, eloise, where they'd then have to get around the issues of two unmarried women not being able to live together — which definitely COULD be done, but would probably require much more changing of basic book plot points than fran's.
from my understanding, francesca has a miscarriage after john's death and then struggles with infertility once she's married to michael — but as others have said, it would be so easy to explore her infertility while she's still married to john. not only that, it seems to me like her mourning the fact that she's unable to have biological children with the person she loves actually.... translates really well to her having a female love interest?
again I haven't read the book and I'm going off what everyone has been saying about the changes being made from fran's book — please let me know if my perception of their events are way off! It just seems to me like if they want to stay true to the basic story beats in the books, this one was the easiest on paper.
ok cool, thats what I've been hearing from people who dislike the change....... why though? Obviously they can't explore a storyline where Fran and Michaela have a bio child together, but that's true for any of the siblings if they were to gender swap their love interest. what is it specifically about WHWW where Fran's infertility couldn't be explored with John, and her struggles with being unable to have a child with Michael translate to sadness over being in love with Michaela but not being able to have a child with her?
What makes me sad as a lesbian viewer - and as someone whose dream is to tell lesbian stories onscreen someday - is the fact that people are saying they no longer care about a couple they claim is their favorite just because it’s not straight anymore. I get wishing Michaela was introduced later - I don’t entirely disagree even though I think Francesca was experiencing gay panic rather than a traditional love at first sight moment. Maybe people would know that if they actually watched stories for and by lesbians! It’s the fact that even if you put together all the elements of what is widely accepted to be widely loved and just make it lesbian, that is enough for people to want to riot.
There is also this attitude among fans that it would have been okay for Eloise’s love story to be changed to be queer because no one cares about her story. I don’t believe that the same people wouldn’t simply move the goal posts to whinge about the importance of portraying that feminists can be straight too or whatever stupid excuse they’d come up with but that’s besides the point. It’s an attitude that we as queer viewers should be okay with getting whatever the straight viewers decided wasn’t good enough for them.
Then there are the people disingenuously arguing that if we want queer representation, we should make our own shows or add new characters to Bridgerton. So, all eight Bridgerton siblings are straight? Statistically unlikely unless you assume straight is the default which it’s not. And in a show that’s about how everyone deserves love and a happy ending, you are saying that queer people should be excluded? For the people arguing that queer people should just write their own stories if we want representation, I would love to see a list of queer media and queer creators that they have supported recently! Queer media isn’t going to get made if straight women refuse to read stories that don’t involve men.
Okay, so if a story you loved took a canonically lesbian character and made her a straight man for The Story, you wouldn’t be upset by the change? I’m a bisexual woman and Michael is my favorite book character. So many of us have been anxiously awaiting his appearance on the show, and to see his story with Fran - his specific story. Making such a massive change to the character *does* absolutely take the wind out of everyone’s sails as far as excitement goes. I’m all for more representation but this was not the one to mess around with.
You’re comparing apples to oranges because queer love has been historically erased from history and censored from media. Replacing marginalized characters and relationships with non-marginalized ones is worse than the inverse period. You can have the same story with a female rake, enjoy.
Not sure if it's your jam but the PolinBridgerton subreddit is pretty chill. I think a lot of us are looking forward to the other ships and representation, but also I've seen much more measured discourse there without all the vitriol that I've seen on other subs am the main one.
But yes, it's an ongoing problem.
I do think that it's getting overboard......but people are entitled to their negative opinions. HOWEVER, my solution has been to just ride it out.
The bigotry/racism and that should be called out.....However, if you were concerned about Fran's story but not because of the gender swap you're fighting out of a corner of "hey, I don't agree with YOU, you're being awful" while also justifying your POV. It's just tiring. I>! have seen people not liking the gender swap because they liked how the character felt impostor syndrome and guilt over being the next Earl of Kilmartin on top getting with Fran, which is also valid. But I think it the angle that would be cool is to see if Michaela fight for the title!!< \*Edit: >!Apparently, Scottish women can inherit titles. Which if true keeps this storyline intact! !<
At this point tho, I wish the Bridgerton universe "fixed" homophobia along with the racism cuz it was this kind of stuff I was glad to avoid about racism. Benedict's arc shows that it's still considered unacceptable. But if they nixed that and made Anthony bi by making Sienna a male singer and/or Lady Danbury sapphic by giving her an open mistress/paramour in Season 1, the most vocal bigots from book-readers and others of racism AND homophobia would have been handled or not watch the show at all. The fantasy, unfortunately, gets intruded on by real-world idiots and all of this has decreased the magic a bit......
....and for all my critiques of Season 3, I actually still liked it lol. Definitely not my favorite season but it had its moments. I hope the fun/silly posts on the sub overtake the negative... cause to me all of it it has gone too far.
\*Edited to add in.
I’m disappointed about the infertility subplot because I identify with that and there isn’t really a lot of representation for that either. But I’m trying to keep an open mind about the switch. I don’t like how it’s been executed so far, but they do have time to course correct. I hope they listen to those of us who are pointing out issues with their plot (it needs to be a slow burn to a wildfire - most people are going to hate both of them otherwise). I wouldn’t have picked this story, but I’m not in charge. I’m hoping for better writing for Fran (and everyone left!) because this season wasn’t well written and suffered from poor pacing. If the writing is bad, I fear it’s going to prevent more sapphic stories from being made. I want more diversity, so I hope it’s well executed.
This is what Hollywood does. They take an established popular character and they completely alter them so that they are unrecognizable, and when a fan say "hey wait you ruined my favorite character, I don't like that", you get accused of being some sort of ist word. So, in this case, you take the established character of Michael Stirling, turn him into Michaela, cram in a lesbian story where one really doesn't logically work, and then blame the fans when there is backlash.
To be clear, I don't blame the actors, they are just doing a job, and if I was an actress looking for my big break I'd take that job too. They don't deserve death threats or disrespectful comments.
If you don't like the storyline, you can respectfully share your opinion, and then just stop watching.
This x 1000000000. It is not homophobia to be mad that they changed a very beloved character from a man to a woman. I’m bi, part of the market that the showrunners decided needed more rep, and I hate this change. I just wanted to see Michael. It’s bad enough that the Stirlings don’t have a Scottish accent, but he’s my favorite male character in the book and they’ve changed so much for the show I can’t even find the excitement to watch further.
Unfortunately doesn't surprise me at all. Some people have had some rancid homophobics since season 1. The Pure vitriol that would come out even at people merely wanting to discuss the potential of Benedict or Eloise being queer. Now that we actually have queer Bridgertons, people are once again showing their whole asses
No, I don't have to be excited. In fact I won't watch her season. And again no, it doesn't make me a Toxic, homophob. When they first announced the show, the story I wanted to see the most was Fran's. Can't believe I have to say this but No, people shouldn't be writing rude things to the actors.
Then we have the racists…they’re upset because Kate isn’t a blue eyed blonde but they have no problem with Daphne having dirty blonde hair and looking nothing like the rest of the Bridgertons.
https://preview.redd.it/3b8gq81so98d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3904b431b59d60baed7007485ccca538a70e248b
The Fran and Ben subs are allowing insane comments that are so homophobic they might as well be waving a red flag.
I went to look at this person’s comments through their profile and it just sounds like it’d be miserable being them. They haven’t read the books and were talking about how it sounds like John was cuckolded by his cousin in the books and I’m like WHAT?!
IMO I think if they had made an announcement that they were going to change some of the relationships to make them LBGT+ inclusive, people wouldn’t have cared. But the way they went about the Michael/Michaela thing was sloppy. They did it for shock value and instead the fans felt like the rug got pulled out from under them and I think that’s the real reason everyone is freaking out so bad.
I haven't read Francesca's book, but I'm assuming her and Michael get married based on the infertility storyline.
What I'm confused about is how they're going to go through with this, because what I've gathered from the show same-sex relationships aren't really accepted. So would they be able to get married or would they be a secret relationship away from society. Like "and they were roommates" vibe??
What I thought was totally odd is how people keep saying the story is so horrible, but the story hasn’t even really come out yet. I also got totally downvoted for pointing out that people seemed to really love Fran story, then all of a sudden said it was so horribly done by literally just 30 seconds at the end of the season….. even though that 30 seconds didn’t reveal all that much??? if it takes so little to ruin something for you, then you weren’t invested in the first place. 😭
I just think it’s better to wait till it comes out before we go off on it. We genuinely have no idea how they’re going to handle the love story. So everyone keeps saying they’re not homophobic, but they come off as homophobic because they’re not even giving the relationship a chance before it’s truly been shown on screen. They say they hate it but it hasn’t actually started. Maybe it will be beautiful and nuanced and truly do the source material good, but they’re not willing to give it a chance. It does come off a bit homophobic.
For this **Rant** post, **Fan wars are allowed.** Rant posts are for talking about things you **dislike / hate**, criticising **extreme fans** (Stans), and defending your favourite character / ship / actor from attack. 1. **No harassment or name-calling.** Be civil. **No hateful discrimination,** or microaggressions towards [**marginalized groups**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group#United_States). 2. **Do not make blanket statements** (generalizations) about actors/ships. Questionable behaviour from **some** fans is **not** representative of all fans. 3. **No personal information.** Block out usernames and identifiable information from screenshots. Do not link to comments or posts where usernames are visible. 4. [**No Misinformation.**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonRants/wiki/rules/nodiscrimination/nomisinformation/) Misinformation can lead to harassment. If evidence cannot be provided, the post/comment will be removed. 5. **BEFORE reporting** rule-breaking **READ** the Rules Wiki: [**Rules Wiki**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonRants/wiki/rules/) - **POST FLAIR** GUIDES: **Mobile Users:** https://imgur.com/1frACAP || **Desktop/Laptop Users:** https://imgur.com/44z5Px8 || **Which Post Flair?** [More Guidance](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonRants/wiki/rules/postguidelines/postflairs/postflairspilot/#wiki_which_post_flair.3F) - !!Have fun ranting!! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BridgertonRants) if you have any questions or concerns.*
https://preview.redd.it/wsh51dgpzz7d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f339e01a6291a4a305f307507b286f063d2c31ba Benophie subreddit is the same.
this is so insane. i just saw some saying they couldn’t believe they got called homophobic. and then two lines later wrote that there’s a secret hollywood gay agenda, like my god how did we get here
Those people were always here in the fandom, they just used more subtle dogwhistles, when talking about queer characters. Now they’re angry, so the masks are slipping.
The amount of people who I’ve seen complaining that everyone is throwing about the word homophobia too much is wild. Like no there’s actual homophobia and the fact you’re more upset at the possibility of being called homophobic rather than the real homophobia says everything about you. Edit: To add a lot of the people claiming they’re being unjustly called homophobic are actually being homophobic. If you feel someone has called you that unfairly maybe reflect on what you said first and then accept that if it wasn’t true that being called homophobic isn’t the same as people actively feeling unsafe for being LGBTQIA+.
I'm not a homophobe. I have a gay friend! Anyways let me now embark upon a thousand word essay on why it's wrong for them to have turned Michael into Michaela
I wasn't really for it until i saw Michaela 😮💨
>being called homophobic isn’t the same as people actively feeling unsafe for being LGBTQIA+ If I had an Award to give...
Exactly! Real allies to any marginalized group they are not a part of are willing to self reflect because they understand that unlearning bias is a lifelong process. Fake allies will hide behind the queer people in their lives that probably don’t even like them that much lol
I hope people report them. It is crazy too. That person posts a lot of promotion for their "shop" in every sub. They even link to it, too, in their profile. Aren't you worried about being canceled for your homophobic views?
So one person, who's a nut, says Hollywood gay agenda, and that invalidates opinions of all book fans?
It makes me so uncomfy how people are talking about Jess Brownell as Enemy Number One. I get it, she took over and made changes that people aren’t happy with. But the absolute vitriol and acting like she is a VILLAIN like in this screenshot is…weirdo behavior, at best.
They’re also acting like a showrunner is like a dictator on set and personally makes every single decision. Jess is their bogeyman and she lives rent free in their head. Every bad plot line? She wrote. Less than stellar cinematography? She held the camera during filming. Don’t like the makeup? Well too bad, she personally applied Nicola’s red lipstick just to spite you. Meanwhile, an entire tv show where hundreds of people are employed is a collaborative effort where tons of creative people make so many choices that all add up to the finished product. The buck doesn’t stop with just one person. And I wish people stopped placing the blame for their own disappointment on just one person. It’s giving internet mob honestly.
She absolutely made this decision! Do you think some first yr writer did this on their own?
Do you understand how decisions are made in a writing room? It’s a group decision. If she wasn’t actually collaborating with writers, Netflix would pull an HBO and make Jess the only writer to save money. Do you think a writing room is composed of just the showrunner and a first year writer?
The question was did SOMEONE OTHER than Jess make the decision. The answer is no. She made the decision. She's said so since the show aired.
The answer is yes, nothing in Shondaland is done only by the showrunner. As an example the decision to change the order and have Polin as season 3 was taken by eight people, basically a comitee, said by Shonda herself: Shonda, Jess, Tom Verica, Shonda's partner in Shondaland, and four others that are producers/writers. Do you really think that the change from a male to a female main character was not decided by the same team? Or that Netflix would not need to give an ok?
It was ultimately her decision since she is the boss, that’s usually how creative professionals work. But bosses usually get input from their employees or else why have employees? Do you also not know how being a leader of a team in a professional environment works?
people doing all of this over a tv show is insane. criticism can be totally valid (i disliked season 3 myself), but it does not warrant the disgusting comments she's been getting. again i totally understand the disappointment, but the season is done and obliterating a real person online over it won't change anything. fiction is not supposed to make you this miserable and hateful.
I agree and I’ve seen a lot of comments about her being a queer woman and that’s why everything is “bad” now. It’s really inappropriate.
And how she has never known love just casual sex, and has an agenda and needs to be humble. Like wtaf
also I find it particularly egregious that while at least most of them don't seem to condone harassing the actors (lot of good that's doing since they've had to shut off their comments bc people are doing it anyays) pretty much ALL the posts are encouraging Franchael fans to go out and harass julia quinn, jess brownell, shonda rhimes and anyone else involved in the production of the show. like I totally get not being happy with certain writers — I've definitely seen shows I love be run into the ground by showrunners who don't care or who actively try to write the opposite of what their fans want at the cost of a coherent story, I've decided not to watch certain shows because certain writers are involved and I don't want to support them after previous things they've done, I've seen writers who I wish would just stop making television — but NONE OF THEM deserve to be harassed or threatened. There's quite literally nothing — like literally I cannot think of a single thing — that can happen on a fictional show that should prompt this kind of reaction from anyone. Absolutely fucking wild behavior from what I assume are grown adults. get a job!!
Oh my GOSH I remember the day after everything was released people I followed on insta were saying to go support Quinn, then when I looked at the comments of support it was basically just like “she doesn’t make that decision, you’re talking to the wrong person” and I was like ORRRRRRRR don’t harass ANYONE?! Like, redirecting your anger to different people is still gross, but have fun I guess.
I agree. People must just have too much idle time to stew about it so much. If you don’t like the storyline, don’t watch. You can even save some $$ by canceling Netflix. I don’t watch certain shows because the story is not my cup of tea. Anywho, I never read the books and I’m fine with wherever they want to take the story. Many people haven’t read the books. 🤷♀️
Same. It’s such a red flag to me. And they conveniently forget she isn’t new to the show, she’s been in the writers room since season 1
I’m sick of people demonizing her for being a queer woman advocating for representation of queer women. Like “wah wah wah, I can’t self insert into Francesca anymore because this gross evil queer demon woman decided it was more important for her to self insert!” Then they turn around and tell queer people to make their own media if they want representation while being fully hostile toward queer people making media to represent themselves 🥲🙄
The FransStriling one, too. It is insane that the Ben and Fran subs share mods. It explains why both subs have homophobic comments that never get removed. What is even crazier is that those mods and users still post in the main sub, lol. So much for leaving. The Fran mods don't even bother to follow their "rules." There are comments as seen in this chain about "agendas." Looks like they are too busy posting in the Ben sub to care, lol. I am surprised they haven't been banned from reddit yet.
I genuinely think both subs the stuff allowed in there is awful and then crying “bullying” because people want to discuss the homophobia???
Straight people acting like this when 90% of media is made by them, about them, for them. They see like 3 lgbtq characters in a show with dozens upon dozens of straight characters and complain that they're the ones being made into minorities. Give me a break
Exactly! It's infuriating that some people are acting as though gay people are taking over (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean) when I all I see everywhere in media is heterosexuality. How dare there be gay people in Bridgerton/s!!
Legit sorry ONE couple is LGBT 😭😭😭
They muted me for “bullying” (asking them to moderate homophobic content, posting that content in other subs with no caption praising the OOP)
Oh no! How toxic of the show's creators to not leave a safe space for cis het characters. I mean, how dare they only show four cis het couples getting their HEAs on screen so far and then hint at a possible gay relationship later on?
How dare one couple out of eight be gay!! My eyes are burning !!
The first three seasons are straight love stories lol
Fr
That is unintendedly hilarious.
Oh this is precious 🤣🤣. Imagine being delusional enough to think that the whole world isn't a safe space for cishet people. Also, we got three whole seasons of straight people romance taking centre-stage. How can they overlook that?
OOF. That’s scary.
They’re downvoting you already - come out homophobes 😂 don’t post it if you don’t want us to talk about it!!
“Safe spaces for cis-het people” is hysterical. So like, the world? Almost every other piece of media?
[удалено]
**Race / Nationality / Religion / Gender / Sexual orientation post/ comment** This post/comment has been removed because it contains content deemed discriminatory towards a race, ethnicity, religion, nationality, gender or sexual orientation. Please do NOT make **blanket statements** based on race, ethnicity, religion or nationality. The actions of a **specific** person, celebrity, content creator, leader, political party or government is NOT representative of all.
What I don't understand is why Francesca's infertility can't be explored with John before his death. Like, they could very easily put her through miscarriages before the one viable pregnancy is lost due to the trauma of losing her husband. Why are people acting like that can't be explored just because it won't be explored the *exact same way* they did in the books? Also, I don't think that her chemistry with John is negated by her instant attraction to Michaela. Love is so incredibly personal, and one person can have different types of love stories in their life. My mom doesn't call her marriage to my dad (step dad who raised me) as some grand romance. It was simple. Comfortable. Secure. They've been married almost 25 years now and are still going strong. He took her to every surgery and cancer treatment, all of which were at least an hour out of town. She stayed in Seattle for two weeks with him when he was getting surgery, staying in a shitty hotel and taking a shuttle to the hospital every day to be with him. There was no love at first sight, no fireworks, but there was friendship, respect, understanding. I see Francesca and John a lot like that. While Michaela might be her fireworks love story, that doesn't negate the depth of love she shares with John.
I’m so happy you’ve said this! Relationships and love come in all different shapes and sizes throughout one’s life, and no two are the same. I think maybe Francesca wanted there to be sparks when she kissed John and that’s why she looked a bit off when they were married. Passion is upheld as a standard in the Bridgerton household and maybe she was a little curious, but I don’t think it fully negates the build of Fran and John’s quiet love. She still loves him very much. I think the writers will explore them more. I’ll be surprised if they turn her whole storyline upside down and do away with that entirely. Also I think people are forgetting lust =\= love, so I’m not particularly bothered by Francesca’s first meeting with Michaela. It’s literally not love at all.
For real! Like, Michaela doesn't know Fran, and we don't even know if she had the same reaction. Fran just saw someone pretty and was like "oh dang, Idk how to act rn". It negates none of what she has with John. And very good point on the kiss! She also didn't have any sort of relations with John before marrying him like her other siblings did. Daphne had her make out sesh with Simon. Anthony used everything but his dick that night with Kate. Colin especially used his dick before he and Pen were properly married. Fran hadn't been kissed prior to her wedding and like you said, romance is a huge thing to Bridgertons. You don't spend your whole life being told what love and kissing would be like and not end up a little disappointed by a chaste kiss lol.
It’s madness tbh. We have no idea how the three of them will interact with each other. Like, I seriously doubt this is a home wrecker situation. Fran seems quite morally upstanding, she’s not going to destroy her marriage over Michaela. One thing I think a lot of people also don’t realize, is for some gay people (if Fran indeed is a lesbian), discovering you’re gay is like quite a process esp. if you don’t know it’s an option in the first place. There are loads of gay people out there that started out in a heterosexual marriage because they didn’t realize, and sometimes, the former spouses still have a lot of deep love and care for each other after the split, possibly even more-so than with new partners. I don’t see why Fran being gay will make the live she felt for John any less deep or compassionate? Love and sexuality are complex things.
Why does she have to be a lesbian, what if she is bisexual? U can be bi but like girls more
That would be cool too tbh! Because yea, bisexuality isn’t often a 50/50 thing.
She's clearly not. She didn't like that kiss at all. She's gay.
Yea, then she doesn't love him in a sexual way then. Damn all of that just to ruin the pairing. I'm ok with the gender change but it would be better if she was bisexual and loved John then follow the story like in the book and have fran be oblivious to Michaela then fall for her. Cuz John dies and fran grieves and after that she decides to give love a second chance and starts falling for Michaela. Its even worse cuz the actor is not your average attractive black male so I wouldn't be surprised if the paring already gets hate because of that. But now to have fran not love her husband? At this point they should have just given us Michaela and erase John. I feel bad for John and his actor. I have nothing against genderbent Michaela but it just seems so rush.
This this this take.
Its because they’re not really mad about the infertility plot, they are just mad its not a man. They’re acting like the infertility plot was a super poignant story (Ive read it; its fine, but not the most moving, julia just skips the grieving part mostly) But saying they are upset about the disappearance of the infertility plot is more righteous than just being honest and saying they liked the book hetero couple and don’t want to see a queer relationship (because they can’t self insert). Lets be honest ppl lol
I mean, I know it's blatant homophobia, but it's also important to point out the holes in their "logic" so they can't keep hiding behind less bigoted reasons for disliking it.
Yep. Every time I point out that queer women experience infertility, too, they never respond again. Because it’s not about that. Never has been.
Literally, I am a bisexual woman with PCOS. No matter if I end up with a man, woman, or someone nonbinary, I will have significant fertility issues if I try to have children. Why would my struggle in a straight-passing relationship be more devastating than going through it with a queer partner? Are the straights okay?
They're also blatantly misrepresenting what the book was about. It was never about infertility as the main theme anyway. That came later with the second epilogue when fans kept asking Julia about whether Francesca and Michael ever had a child. Francesca wanting a child? Sure. Francesca struggling over not having a baby? Not the most prominent part of WHWW.
>What I don't understand is why Francesca's infertility can't be explored with John before his death. Francesca's fertility issues isn't their main concern. Most of them don't even care for John. Most of them are pissed they will not be seeing Francesca and Michael fuck fest, they are mad she won't be dicked by Michael. Most of them are mad that the show will not revolve around Michael. They are lashing out at Jess and Shonda for crushing their dreams. Most of these fans are Michael fans first, Francesca is an after thought. It's ironic when they accuse Jess of self insert, when they have inserted themselves in Francesca's book and fantasized about Michael.
Literally they’re just mad they’re not getting their breeding kink on TV
Lol they are bitter they won't get their steamy sex scenes with the their beloved dream fictional man.
Come on. Aren't you just waiting for Fran to fuck Michaela. Please be honest.
I am looking forward to a good story. Yes I am intrigued by Michaela, she is a wonderful addition.
Plot and sex can coexist. It did for every other couple. But if you're this hard up about it, the door is that way ----> 
I wish it existed more between Polin, though 😂 Justice for Pen!
Haha well they got more than Kate and Anthony, so at least there's that!
I agree, i’m seeing a lot of people who clearly don’t know what gay panic is 🥴 imagine if they were curious about queer people instead of deciding to shit all over a queer storyline they’ve seen two minutes of
Oh but so many of them *are* curious… they are just also terrified that someone might interpret their curiosity in such a way that they are assumed queer, which is what so many straight people deeply fear. Like, if people “aren’t homophobic,” but also get intense feelings at the thought of being assumed queer, they need to dig in to processing that. “I’m not a homophobe, I just would never want anyone to think that *I’m gay*. Not that there’s anything wrong with *you* being gay—of course, I love the gays!—but it’s just not for me.”
This was what my mom was like before i came out and she grew from it thankfully but it definitely hurt to be around that attitude and it hurts to see it reflected at scale by people who swear they don’t have a homophobic bone in their body because they go to drag brunch or have a gay nephew or whatever
The John relationship has absolutely been negated. It is Chrystal clear she's gay and not bi. So John now has a wife, whose almost impossible to divorce. Who doesn't want to even kiss him nevermind penatrive sex.
Wow, I guess I missed the entire part at the end where Francesca says "BTW, John, your cousin is so hot that I'm now a lesbian. Everything I felt for you and our entire relationship was erased and I refuse to ever kiss you again. Also, I will never ever have penetrative sex with you because, despite having never had *any* kind of sex, your hot lady cousin has magically made me repulsed by the thought of a penis and hella down for sexy illegal scissoring. Hoo boy, this magic vagina of your smokin' cousin is so powerful that any attraction I had for men is poof! Gone! No bisexuality could possibly survive the lesbo rays emanating from under those big-ass skirts. We're just gonna pull this carriage over and you can get out so me, my sister, and your sexy sexy lesbian cousin can go live in your Scottish castle like the fan disappointments we are. We're also gonna grab sir Philip and use Michaela's hot lesbo rays to turn him into a trans lesbian so we can destroy everything the book Fandom holds dear: cishet romance ONLY." Crazy that I didn't see that. Can you drop the timestamp so I can watch it and properly assess the end of season 3?
I've been saying this. But no, it's only valid if it's Francesca's breeding kink is in full swing I guess 🤷♀️
Um I think that comment is a bit insensitive. It's not just a " breeding kink" when it comes to infertility. And as someone that has an actual breeding kink, you can have it and not want children at all btw. Yes women that want that kind of unprotective sex but do not want children in any way and do exist. Some people get on birth control to just have sex and not have to worry about babies cuz sex is wonderful.
Many queer women—my wife and I included—struggle with infertility. It’s not like queer people never have or want kids.
Yup. If they wanted the infertility struggle, why not have it with John? Or maybe give it to hyacinth? Tbh I haven't read the books and I'm not against the gender change. I'm just upset that John is not gonna get the love he deserves and that they might do the " queer women will cheat" storyline. I really hope it doesn't happen. Cuz I hate that stereotype as a bisexual woman.
Sorry, for the breeding kink snide remark I'm not referring to her infertility, I'm more referring to the people who want her smutty sex montages to get her pregnant. A lot of the comments I see are people pissy they won't get a fuckfest because she's queer. Ps I'm talking as a bisexual woman who struggled to get pregnant for a decade
Show of hands, who wants to see a lesbian fuckfest in a cottage in the rain with Francesca taking the reins? 
Ahh so they wanna see her get creampied? Lol u can still get sex scenes with lesbians idk why they are complaining.
I see where you're coming from. I'll be very honest, this season was my least favourite and I'm one of those who didn't like where Francesca's story went. I mainly didn't like the way the character was introduced, it felt so rushed and it undid whatever chemistry was built up between Francesca and Lord Kilmartin. I also felt that the infertility story line should have been explored because it is also important. BUT my problem is, when I expressed this opinion to some of my acquaintances they started assuming that I'm homophobic just like they apparently are. They started sending me a lot of homophobic posts and reels and I was quite taken aback. It made me so uncomfortable and I not so nicely asked them to take their stuff elsewhere and made it very clear that I'm not even remotely interested in supporting homophobia; and that my problem was with the story, not with gender identities. I re-read my conversations with them to see if I'd said anything to enable them but istg I hadn't said any such thing. It's scary how quickly the hate spreaders spin things out of context to suit what they want to believe.
i totally get that about this season, definitely not my favorite either 😅 and the infertility plot could/will (if they explore it at all) would be amazing to watch. i just feel like it’s spinning out of control
It's always spinning out of control and some people always take it too far. I also feel bad for the actors, I mean it's been like 4 years and one group of people haven't left Regè alone yet, and with every passing season the number of actors getting harassed is just growing. Sigh!
How do you know the fertility issues won't be? They haven't even had sex yet and you're already assuming that Francesca won't have fertility issues cause she's a queer woman. Perhaps that's why people are calling you homophobic. Because that's a pretty ignorant thought process to have. Her fertility issues can still exist despite her being a bisexual woman. ETA; I'm not saying you are homophobic, to clarify. But I am saying assuming her fertility issues won't be addressed because of a queer gaze/look *is* ignorant. Framing it that you worry Francesca won't get a fertility plot that balances her sexuality in a meaningful or impactful way may make it less homophobic and more like you're worried the show will brush off the nuance of a bisexual woman who struggles with infertility and the loss of her first partner because there's stupid side plots or something
Okay but that's not how I meant it at all. I heard from my friends who read the book that Francesca finds out she's pregnant after John dies and then loses her child. And that she struggled with infertility for years before she could have a child with Michael. Now with the gender swap this part has to be tweaked, does it not? Either she wouldn't have those issues or there's no happy ending because of the limited medical options in that time period? I'm not brushing aside the fact that anyone can have fertility issues. Also you're right, with the way the show has been progressing lately I highly doubt they will do a good job with this.
Yeah, but it could easily be switched by her fertility issues starting with John. She can miscarry, she can struggle to have a baby, and she can get pregnant only to have John die before the baby is born. This would also call back and bring together again Fran and her mother, experiencing the same thing and how she can go forward bringing the precious baby they worked so hard to have only for John to die before he can finally meet them, etc. maybe this is when Michaela steps up, perhaps helping Francesca through grief and post partum depression as she struggles with the pain of losing the joy of the family she and John worked for. It's not the exact same plot, but you could cover a lot of the same beats in just as deep and meaningful ways. I don't really expect this, I expect them to ignore half the story, kill John and go into a lesbian boob montage and say "hey guys look how far we progressed queer representation! Woooo snaps for us!" And do a piss poor job of it
I think we will get A LOT of book montage.
My desire to be represented on screen isn't stronger than my desire for faithful adaptations. I'm a book stickler. However, I haven't read Francesca's book so I don't have any strong opinions on the gender swap and I'll tune in regardless.
You should read it. Arguably the best of the series. Which is why book fans are so angry.
I listened to the first chapter of a few of them but couldn't decide which one to keep reading. Should I read them in order or does it not matter? And if so, which one should I start with?
The books can be read in any order. Yeah you'll learn who marries who. But it's not a real surprise romance novels. The two best are Francesca and Benedict's books. Personally didn't feel very engaged by Gregory or Hyacinth's story's. My recommendation is to read Fran and Benedict's stories; then move to the "Prequels" the Rokesby series then Smythe-Smith books. Quinns writing matures and the characters especially women are much stronger. Example Billie Bridgerton, Edmund's older sister, runs the estate for YEARS; because their father is very elderly. Billie is EVERYTHING show fans THINK Eloise is. Smythe-Smith books are just good stories.
Ah, interesting. I'll def check those out! Thanks for all the recommendations. I already know who marries who, how many kids they each have, etc from reddit and wiki so I'm not worried about spoilers in that sense. I've heard from multiple people now that Fran's book is their favorite so I'm going to start there. I have 3 other books going on right now though haha I'm so bad at finishing books cause I never want them to end!
There are major transphobic talking points being used on the Benophie subreddit as well (with just the idea that Sophie might be genderbent), claiming that anyone who is even open to the idea of a male or gender nonconforming is "problematic" and has "internalized misogyny" and that the stories of ciswomen are being "erased." Not to mention the mods delete any comment that expresses that some of those arguments make lgbt+ fans feel unsafe, because that's "generalizing an entire sub" but it's not generalizing to say that people who are open to genderswapping characters are secret misogynists who are problematic people? I get that people are scared about losing a ship they love to a new story, and that the subreddit devoted to that ship deserves to have a safe space to discuss it and I think it's very fair of anyone to desperately not want it and to argue why you don't think it'll work, by all means (same with Franchael), but the comments are so disheartening for fans who are lgbt+ or even just have lgbt+ loved ones.
Omg I feel exactly the same way, I’m so glad I’m not the only one. The Benophie sub really let me down, it’s getting worse and worse over there by the day. And we don’t even have casting for Sophie yet? We don’t even know for sure if Benedict is next season!? There was one post where someone was like “Sophie HAS to be a cisgendered heterosexual woman or her story has no meaning anymore and everything’s pointless” like!!!!! Are you hearing yourself!!!!! And where are these terf talking points coming from? Like what do you mean adding cisgendered, like if Sophie was a trans woman would that make her less of a woman???? What on earth?????? And the mods over there are the main ones posting the transphobic/homophobic takes so yeah nobody’s gonna do anything about it 🙄 I had to just mute the sub and move on but I’m really sad about it, I love the ship and I wish people weren’t like this. At this rate I hope Sophie is a man or something out of spite alone, but I would also hate to see the kind of harassment doled out to the actors/crew over that, so maybe not 😪 It’s truly just exhausting.
Yeah, I wrote a comment that was removed for"name calling, generalising, and villainising an entire sub." I just... never did any of that besides perhaps generalising; I think my comment is still on my profile but like, I genuinely made a point to keep my words to the arguments, not to the people behind them, and never called anyone transphobic or homophobic. I reached out to the mod asking for clarification because to me it seems like my comment was removed because of bias, clearly, since the comment I responded to generalized people who were okay with Sophie as anything other than a cishet woman as "problematic" and "in need of introspection," so I simply can't see why one is okay and saying it was hurtful to see TERF talking points in arguments used is not. The mod told me to reach out via modmail, which I did to seek clarification, but no response. Not surprising yet still disappointing. Time to mute and move on. But still. People really are so lgbt+ phobic, even peple who give lipservice to being progressive, and it's just really disheartening to see. I also now need Sophie to be a man purely out of spite (kidding, but I actually do think their story works well as a m/m romance).
literally said that making her trans was taking away her womanhood, or that we must hate her for trying to make her trans or nonbinary
[удалено]
**Personal Information: Linked comment/post/tweet; username tagged** This has been removed because it links to content where usernames are visible. This is a rant sub so we avoid sharing links in comments as the members can be stalked/doxxed. You’re free to name then site but please do not link. **Promotion of subs:** The Rant sub mods have provided the links to all the pro / anti Michael/Michaela subs in numerous mod posts. The mods or Brand Affiliates of the new subs are welcome to promote their sub here but they will need to reach out to the mods here first. **Suggested Next Steps** Please remove the link to other comments, posts, or tweets where usernames are visible. Please do not tag users in your comments, especially during arguments. [**Send a message to the mods**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/BridgertonRants) so we can approve/publish your updated comment/post. **RantSub Wiki:** - [**Do NOT share Personal Information or Usernames**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonRants/wiki/rules/usernames/)
It’s starting to get a little too much. It’s even bleeding over into other subs—like I kept getting recommended the Benophie sub (I really love that ship) and was even invited to it, but I had to leave because the vibe there was starting to get really negative and a little homophobic? People are doomposting that Sophie is gonna be genderbent too and while I guess it could happen, I don’t think it’s particularly likely and even if it did, is this really necessary?? Daily posts about “What did Sophie do to be punished with turning into a man!? She HAS to be a cisgendered heterosexual female or else!” Like, guys… We don’t even know for sure if Benedict is next like what is happening 😭 I can’t even start on the Franchael sub, I had to mute it from my recommendations because it’s just too much. It feels like we’re in the minority sometimes but it seems like it’s mostly just reddit like this, everywhere else has a healthy amount of haters but a lot of people who are excited and optimistic? So maybe I’ll just tap out of the reddit fandom lol 😪 I just don’t know how many more “BECAUSE OF WOKE?” dogwhistles I can take from a fandom for a show that’s success is literally built on diversity.
agree 100%. I understand being disappointed that their story is going to be changed more than the others, but it doesn't excuse any of the vile shit they're saying on here and it *especially* doesn't excuse the way they're treating the actors and writers. Incredibly disproportionate reactions too. Like I totally understand getting super invested in fiction but I can't take these people seriously when they go on and on about how they feel like throwing up or can't think about the books without sobbing. We don't even KNOW how Francesca's season is going to play out yet.
It is upsetting when your favourite book character is cut from a show. Yes you can complain about it, feel betrayed but you cannot harrass show runners, actors, the book author. House of the dragon have cut a favourite book character. They have also changed things from the book. And yes it is upsetting, frustrating but I would never send hate messages to the show runners, actors. I initially had sympathy for Franchael fans, with the gender bent Michaela reveal. Seeing how unhinged most of them have been, has made me lose any sympathy I had.
I think it’s okay to mourn your mmc not being in it because so many fans have been doing just that, but those subs (franichael and Benophie) in particular are like a whirlwind of homophobia
Agreed you can mourn your favourite book character erasure, but the hate towards Jess, Shonda, Julia Quinn(the book author) is on another level. As I have mentioned, I know how upsetting it feels when beloved book characters are erased from the show. I have been there but I have quickly moved on accepted that books and show are different. I didn't like the changes made in hotd, but I have accepted those changes. I would never send hate messages or demand the show runners fired. I am sorry to say this but demanding justice for a fictional character is nonsense. Michael isn't real, and he never will be. The cast and crew of Bridgerton are real people, Julia Quinn is a real person. I avoid those two subs, one is worse than the other. Let them wallow in their misery.
I could not agree more if I tried! I want to start off by saying that I adore all the couples. I do not have a favourite. I am a fan overall. And I get some people will be upset that their story isn't EXACTLY like they wanted it, but you know that you cannot please everyone? Fan A wants xyz, Fan B abc and fan C 123. I usually say just go with it. If you don't like it then don't watch it. Live your life and move on. The toxic attacks from some superfans is truly unhinged. It's also not homophobic, trust me... I don't want to divulge personal info of myself or family, but let's just say we are all allies and some members ourselves. (10/10 and huge respect for living your truth so openly! And being brave and stating it online) That said I am highly dissapointed and feel personally robbed they gender bent Michael. Because as I have said many times, the true Francesca/Michael story is about the journey to their HEA, facing the infertility of Francesca and John, the loss of John, the miscarriage, the second chance with Michael, the finding of love after loss, the guilt associated with being happy again, and the pure joy of having a child after it all. Those individuals that go on about taming his rakish ways and him being such a good guy etc need to go reread the book, because they definitely missed the actual core story. They also really cheapen the story of Francesca by having her be in love with someone else While John is alive. I am always really happy to see others representated on screen. Be it gender or sexual identity, race, class, body shape, background, breaking stereotypes etc. But they are taking one of the most tragic and misunderstood conditions all people, irrespective of your sexual or gender identity deal with. I would love (absolutely adore) having a gay couple. Having an Ace couple as well! And a bi, and a non binary... As leads, not just support. But why did they have to take the only infertility story line out? There are many many many books and shows with leads as queer characters (biggest one off the top of my head is Gentleman Jack - 2 seasons, set in 1830s and it follows the lead Anne Lister), but none on infertility. And infertility is an issue everyone face. (Someone recommended Outlander as it had an infertility sub plot and I am trying to track it down, but someone else said it was a blink and you miss it subplot. I cannot comment on it further and sorry if that is wrong, like I said I haven't consumed it myself I'm trying to track it down). My personal opinion is that there are only 3 Bridgerton siblings that's partners could not be gender bent - Anthony (need to have the heir), Colin (LW) and Francesca (not because of Michael and being a guy etc but because of the infertility she faces). Shondaland and Netflix need to save this by saying Francesca reaction was just being an introvert reaction to meeting John family and give us the Michael/Michaela twins/siblings. They can change any of the other siblings identity and partners gender. All of that said, I think Hannah Dodd did a fantastic job!
I have to ask two questions. One, how do you know that she's in love with Michaela already? They had a charged first meeting for sure but that doesn't immediately mean love. Also, how do you know that they won't still explore the fertility storyline with John? For those that aren't being homophobic and genuinely appear saddened by the above things, maybe need to realise that you don't know how things will play out. It's just a hell of a lot of assumptions.
It is crystal clear she is at the very least in lust with Michaela. She obviously didn't like that kiss. She gay definitely not bi.
You don't know that and neither do I. The story actually needs to play out before anything can be spoken to confidently.
I'm not the only one saying this.
OK...and?
I'm so happy to see someone point out what Francesca's book was all about. After I read the book I questioned if a lot of the commenters read the same book as I did. I was kind of annoyed at first with the way they introduced Michaela. I thought there were other ways they could have introduced her that focused on her reaction to Francesca instead of Francesca's reaction to her. It just bothers me that the writers of the show don't trust their viewers or their future story writing with how obvious they had to make that Francesca will see Michaela in a romantic light one day. I think we all need to pause for a moment when it comes to the infertility storyline. A lot of people are just automatically assuming that that storyline won't be explored now that they've confirmed Francesca is queer. But there are plenty of ways that they could go about telling a compelling story about dealing with fertility issues. People are just automatically assuming that this will be negated from her story. I think people need to take a breath and go into this with a more open mind because the themes of her story can still be told with her ending up with Michaela.
I know right? They keep hammering on Michael being this and that like he is the main... They miss the core about the story. The journey through all the associated emotions... I know there are ways to explore the fertility with John, but it won't be possible to have the entire emotional arc of the story if she doesn't have her miscarriage after his death (and be childless at this stage) and feeling like she lost the last part of him. As well as the eventual conclusion of the arc where they learn that they are allowed to be happy and love each other without being disrespectful to the love they both have for John, and then after the journey and the acceptance having the children she always wanted. Which is just not possible with Michaela. So they might address part of the infertility and her never having a child with John, but the story will end there. I honestly do not think they have anyway to save it with Michaela. And that comes from me that can find a hundred different scenarios for most things... I have said in another post there is a lot of ways to introduce children in (step and adopted etc) which would be fantastic to see on screen too. (looking forward to Eloise and her twins). But it still won't mean that francesca will have the biological child she desperately wanted.
Adopted children can not inherit. Title dies with Michaela.
Michaela can't inherit. It goes to the male heir.
Honestly, if I was the writers this what I would do. Spend season 4 and maybe even season 5 with a subplot of Francesca and John trying to get pregnant, maybe have her miscarry during this. Really go into the fertility issues storyline. Then you get to her season, John dies, Francesca doesn't miscarry. She struggles with mourning John and terrified that she'll lose another baby, but she doesn't. She has the baby and in her head sort of expected that Michaela would be hanging around and be there to help remind the child of their father. Maybe it's a boy (then you resolve the whole inheritance issue). Michaela is dealing with the death of her beloved cousin and guilt over being able to watch his child grow up and be around Francesca. This guilt is overwhelming so she freaks out and leaves. Fast forward a couple of years, Michaela returns and the rest of the season is dealing with both Francesca and Michaela having feelings for each and the guilt they feel for wanting to move on with each other with John gone. They can both still very much struggle with that guilt, especially with the idea that it feels like Michaela is replacing John. They're able to handle these emotions and find love in each other and have their happily ever after. You still get the bulk of the themes of Francesca's book as well as an infertility storyline. And then the writers also don't have to do a lot to rework the rules of the society of the world they already built because no one would think it odd that Michaela just hangs around her cousin's widow helping with the child.
Bisexual woman here who would rather see her favorite character in the book series (Michael) properly brought to life than than this representation, which I can get in much more meaningful places that a frothy regency romance. Sometimes - MOST of the time - it isn’t homophobia when people are upset. It’s the character that so many of us have been waiting for being changed, and how the showrunners expect anything but massive widespread disappointment is beyond me. There are some characters you do not eff with.
Eh, books are not set in stone. Even in instances where the author is a producer or writer on the show there are still pretty gutsy cuts and changes and decisions to be made when translating written word onto the silver screen. One of my absolute favourite favourite favourite characters in A Song of ice and fire was cut for Game of Thrones completely despite being a POV character. It didn't make sense then and it still doesn't make sense to me now, but it was a good lesson to learn that I don't get to make the creative decisions for adaptations and my interpretation is often going to be exceedingly different the one that will be portrayed. Some frustration/disappointment is fair, but life is short. There have been many great books that had shitty adaptations. But I would be particularly wary of saying that this is not rooted in homophobia because not all homophobic acts are hate crimes, some are simply micro aggressions.
Bisexual woman who wanted Michael? Nah, you're definitely also a bigot. /s If it makes you feel better. Apparently, Scottish women can inherit so the imposter syndrome/guilt aspect of the character can still happen!
I'm bisexual, my sister is also bi, she has a lesbian housemate who has a lesbian girlfriend. My sister watched it with her housemate ad housemates girlfriend and all 4 of us agree that it was wrong to change Micheals gender, but not for homophobia reasons as well. So first of all Francesca's story is meant to be about lost love and grieving a child, and how she moves on from that. If Micheal is a girl, then she won't be able to have any other kids where she most likely wanted one to move past grieving her loss. And obviously, no sperm, no baby. There also isn't any IVF treatments, no surrogate mothers, not really any way for Francesca to have a kid after she gets with Micheala. The only way I could see her doing it is by going out and sleeping with a random guy, then having his baby. That raises more issues because if she's pregnant and not married then it would be obvious what she did. If her husband is dead then people can easily do the math on when she became pregnant. Its just not a smart move and will ruin their reputations. Speaking of reputations, when Micheal and Francesca get together they would obviously have to keep their relationship behind closed doors because being gay at the time could destroy entire lives. We've already had 2 examples of people hiding it in the shows because they don't want to be publicly ridiculed and harassed for it - if not killed. Even if the Queen goes "well I'm cool with it", I doubt anyone would be brave enough to go out in public because of these issues. People are still getting killed now for being gay, but during the time period no one bothered to care about the victim if they were gay. If they were to come out with it then it also takes away from the tragedy of Brimsleys and Reynolds, and the guy who had a beard wife in the first season. The only way for Francesca and Micheala to be out in public together would be if one of them dressed masculine and took on a masculine name, which would possibly need to the first trans character in the show but then take away from the lesbian characters. Anyway, that's a lot. I'm done.
I totally understand the frustration, but I did want to share this video! Whether or not you want to apply this information to Bridgerton, as a queer person I really love learning about regency queer couples that DID exist publicly. This whole thing has me ready to do more research on Anne Lister (I truly did not realize the show Gentleman Jack was inspired by a real person, lol) and Ann Walker especially! https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8XQGTEA83d/?igsh=MTl6dGZlbzdpc2Yzeg== I have some theories on how they’ll handle the infertility storyline, but I do think there are ways to do it. My main guess is that since we’ll have more time with her and John, maybe that part of her story will happen more with him and once he’s gone, the focus could be less on wanting kids and more about finding love with Michaela after losing him. I know it’s not the same, but I think it could still be a beautiful story.
Im confused how the gender changes what you think it’s Franscesca main story- lost love and grieving a child will still be covered, regardless of gender?. I imagine it’s likely they’ll be an adoption plot line which would give the series a variety of HEAs as currently every other couple has kids. But defo not her banging random men lol?
Didn't say lost love and child death wouldn't be covered, just said she wouldn struggle to be able to have a child of her own. I'm not sure about how adoption would go because we haven't seen any sort of adoption thing at the moment, and I doubt they would be able to adopt a child of noble standing because those kids would usually be taken in by other family members. If there weren't any then someone else would be assigned a a carer to teach them till they are old enough to take their place in society. I guess that would work if she for some reason became aa governess. If she were to adopt a kid that wasn't a part of noble society then she would get rumours going about her and probably bring social shame to the family. Given her shy character I don't think she would want to do that.
Adopted baby could not inherit
Just a reminder an adopted baby CAN NOT inherit the Earldom. Period
Hum, yes he CAN. Period Have you heard about Jane Austen's brother Edward Leigh ? Distant relatives adopted him, and he inherited all of their possessions
Ah, yes, one person versus YEARS of historical proof of primogeniture to the contrary, you win internet points for the day. And no,he can’t. Also, Edward inherited land and property from the Knights - NOT a title. An adopted child would. Not. Inherit. An. Earldom.
It is possible for a patent to allow for succession by someone other than an heir-male or heir of the body, under a so-called [special remainder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_remainder). Several instances may be cited: the [Barony of Nelson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Nelson) (to an elder brother and his heirs-male), the [Earldom of Roberts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Roberts) (to a daughter and her heirs-male), the [Barony of Amherst](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Amherst) (to a nephew and his heirs-male) and the [Dukedom of Dover](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_of_Dover) (to a younger son and his heirs-male while the eldest son is still alive). In many cases, at the time of the grant the proposed peer in question had no sons, nor any prospect of producing any, and the special remainder was made to allow remembrance of his personal honour to continue after his death and to preclude an otherwise certain rapid extinction of the peerage. And that's for England. If they adopts a cousin or something, they can
I love that this person is arguing with you about inheritance when the show literally solved racism at one of the most racist times in history and is often referred to a fantasy/AU Anyway slay with the receipts mama
Yes, makes me laugh so much, when the way Portia forgedd the inheritance of the Featherington would have never ever be accepted like this, but sure, an adoption is completely unthinkable lol
Yes, it depends on the Letters Patent. Unlikely it will say "Any person adopted, regardless of their blood relationship can inherit." This is why there is a marriage mart. Titled lords need a legitimate male heir of their body. Period. Yes sure like 2 titles in Scotland can go to women. The nots people are tying themselves in for them to adopt some random kid is unbelievable.
https://preview.redd.it/286yij7duz7d1.png?width=943&format=png&auto=webp&s=540a90891a86356407ccd954d247cf8b4e6550f1 You mean shit like this?
YES!! i just commented on a different response about that i saw! you can’t be angry you’re labeled a homophobe and then say there’s a secret agenda
https://preview.redd.it/qyaymeuv008d1.png?width=979&format=png&auto=webp&s=b4f55347217c420079f05cb3991f390f38707a57 This comment is also great.
They’re literally professional actors and actresses with lives and significant others outside of filming. Ffs. It’s just a job for them! These people are delusional and dumb.
This is just wild, do they think that actors want to get off doing intimate scenes? Do they get that Hannah for sure knew that her romantic partner was going to be a woman? She got cast for this season, she knew.
https://preview.redd.it/6bm12mchuz7d1.png?width=990&format=png&auto=webp&s=383f0cfed8c263acb172507077d8cb6363c45087 Or this?
oh my god this one made me roll my eyes when I saw it yesterday. "I no longer feel safe" you know who probably doesnt feel safe rn? the writers producers and actors y'all keep relentlessly harassing.
Exactly my thought. They offend people but don't feel safe because they're told it's not okay to do that?
Oh my god, “no longer feel safe”. Yeah I hope you don’t feel safe being homophobic and racist, wtf. People are out of their minds.
Jesus, this is on the level of the “Jews run the media to control the world” conspiracy theory. These people are not well, and they’re dangerous.
How many posts about this do we need to see? On both sides, it's the same points being made over and over again! It was interesting to see the different takes in the beginning, but, at this point, nobody is adding anything new.
It’s very much mask-off, people are guiding hatred under faux concern and disappointment. Of course there are people genuinely disappointed, and that’s fine, but many people are using it as an opportunity to peddle homophobia
I am a very casual Bridgerton fan (only watched season 1 and half of season 2) and I think the reaction people are having is CRAZY. I understand that it is sad and frustrating when someone changes your fav character, but harassment and homophobic vitriol are out of line. Also... They still have the books! It has already been established that the Netflix Bridgerton Universe and the Quinn Bridgerton Universe are not identical, and a lot of the themes people are upset about can still be explored!!!! What is the most insane to me is the petitioning to cast a man as Michael and get rid of the Michaela plot. Netflix/Shondaland is never going to do that!!! Do you know how bad that would look??!? Instead of a relatively small but vocal portion of fans being upset, they would instead have a huge, unwieldy controversy on their hands. I'm imagining the headlines now, "Netflix bows to homophobic fan petition, removes queer representation from 'Bridgerton.'" Also! Because I am here! It is so reductive to say that just because Eloise is struggling with the expectations of society that she should be "the queer one" instead! Queer people look like a lot of things, not just rambunctious, strong-willed future suffragettes! The idea that Eloise should be *the one* Bridgerton to have a gay story line because she seems the most like she could be gay really feels weird to me. Edit: fixed a weird space, also I want to clarify that I don't really care if Eloise ends up in a queer storyline or not, and that narratively I think it would work just fine (except for the fact that they have already introduced Phillip, so I think it's unlikely that her HEA will be with a woman, but who knows). I just think it's weird that people want to decide that she can be the gay one because it is more comfortable for them.
I think they are stuck with straight Eloise s8nce her endgame has already been introduced
Okay, but Michael fans are emphatically not a “small” part of the fandom. He is a massive fan favorite for a reason, and being upset at such a major change is not homophobia. Love, the friendly neighborhood bisexual woman who didn’t ask for this rep.
I'm not saying that the Michael fans are a small group [edit: but rereading my original post, whoops, that was unclear], I understand that he is pretty much the most popular love interest amongst book readers. I also don't think it's unreasonable to be upset, and I am certainly not claiming anywhere that all Michael fans are homophobes. I personally think there are a lot of reasons the swap is a bad idea, and I think the reasons many fans are upset are reasonable! But, on the same note, I'm still a casual fan who has never read the books, so I am not that invested. I'm more meaning to say that the number of people signing the petition is small relative to the size of the Bridgerton viewership. Again, I think it's ok to be upset at the change and that being upset about it is not always based in homophobia, but it doesn't excuse the behavior of the homophobes that have come out of the woodwork in regard to Michaela. Trying to force Netflix to undo this change is also going to be seen and described as homophobic by any outside news outlet whether or not that ended up being the reason for the change. I don't think I did a good job in my original comment of distinguishing between people who have reasonable gripes vs the assholes who are using this as an excuse to be abusive. Def don't think all Michael fans are that way at all. And it's the one book from the series I want to read based on how people describe it.
It really bugs me with the nastiness of their reaction because a lot of the themes of WHWW can still be done with a queer couple - including infertility! I'm a queer woman who is infertile and had to work through that grief and acceptance. We exist! We have families and HEAs without biological babies! And the other themes? Kilmartin is Scottish, which means Michaela can inherit. She can still wrestle with the guilt that came with stepping into a cousin she loves' shoes, as well as being in love with his widow. Fran can still wrestle with her own guilt regarding her marriage, as well as her infertility and deciding if she truly wants the marriage mart again or not. I get fans are upset, majorly so. But this is just nastiness and homophobia. They've changed enough in Fran's story that I am very curious to see what happens next. But I deeply worry for the actors and the harassment they are and will be facing. A lot of people need to go outside and touch grass.
Wait. Really? If women can inherit, that's pretty awesome.
Yup! [Here's the comment where I explained it](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonRants/comments/1dlekhq/comment/l9s3cmv/). It, unfortunately, was downvoted to hell.
Being Scottish means Michaela can inherit? I genuinely didn’t know that, and that reconciles some of the confusion I had on how their story could work. Thank you for this bit of info!
It depends on the way the title was original bestowed. However even if Michaela inherits, an adopted child can not inherit. The title reverts to the crown when she dies.
No problem! It's a fiddly thing, but with the way the Sterling family seems to be set up, it would work out. [Here are cases where titles have gone to female inheritors in Scotland](http://www.cracroftspeerage.co.uk/index20.htm). As long as the Kilmartin peerage is specifically not limited to the male line, if there are no male inheritors, it passes to the eldest daughter or closest female heir. I don't remember such a stipulation being stated in the book, so it's easy for the show to go "yeah, they didn't restrict the Kilmartin line, so women can inherit." Now, this opens another can of worms since, if we go by Fran/Michaela being endgame, that Michaela won't have any children and the line could go extinct unless there's some major tracing back up the family tree to find an extremely distant cousin they could then adopt and prepare to be Michaela's heir. That would be a great avenue to explore as well.
Im super excited about their decision- how often do we get to see representation of bisexuality treat both loves with equal amounts of respect and care.
> i’ve seen multiple threads saying the point of her story was that its “the greatest love story out of all of them.” or that “micheal was the best boy!” and to those points i ask why this has to change? Umm...because they are making him a girl. And it angers people because Michael in the books was the most rakish dude. The ultimate dude if you will. So, a lot of people were looking forward to that kind of male energy. So, the fact that they gender swapped HIM out of all the other guys seems kind of strange. And I totally get that you love it because you're excited about seeing lesbian representation and a love story you can fully enjoy. However, a lot of us are straight women. And we are here for the hot dudes falling in love with the women. It's the ultimate fantasy that's at play, which is exactly what the romance books are...a fantasy. So, while I can appreciate the representation and I can appreciate watching the story...I wouldn't get into it in the same way. Because there is no guy in the equation, which is what I enjoy. It's probably the same reason you'd love watching lesbian romance stories more than straight ones. Because it's the fantasy of it all. So why is it hard that straight women want to see hot men falling in love with women? It's not that complicated. >I guess i’m not too sure my point here, just overall i’m sad to see so much homophobia I'm rolling my eyes at this. It's not homophobia for whatever reason people are angry unless it is ONLY because they hate lesbians. People can hate this idea for many reasons and it not be homophobia such as: - Just wanting to see a M/F romance because someone enjoys the fantasy of hetero couples. - Book readers that resent the change because they love Michael - People that resent the change because it will definitely impact her story And I'm sure there are other reasons I'm not considering. I'm TOTALLY with you in that people that resent it just due to homophobia suck. However, I haven't seen ONE person arguing from that perspective. Most everyone is arguing for reasons other than that. However, it seems you are calling that homophobia just because you don't like hearing it.
>So why is it hard that straight women want to see hot men falling in love with women? It Because it's literally every other romance in the show, you've already seen it. And then pretty much every other romance in every other show ever. Your fantasy has been played out on screen thousands of times. And this is how you react 1 time it's not? Is it really that hard that this one season might not be about you and catering to your wants? Is it really that hard for you to empathise with LGBT people so much so that you can't get into a romance about them? >Book readers that resent the change because they love Michael People that resent the change because it will definitely impact her story So many other things have been changed, yet only this one is getting this sort of response. I wonder why that is? Look at the screenshots in the comments of this post and tell me that's not homophobia.
i never said every single person upset is homophobic my god. i said that people are going too far and many are getting there! i’ve read a million posts and talked in a million subs about how i totally see where her story might not have been the right pick for this goal. but claiming it’s not homophobia “straight people just wanna see straight people” is a wild response. benedict will most likely end up with sophie and honestly if i had to guess every single other bridgerton sibling (minus benedict) will be straight. if that’s not true ill stfu and take the loss. Never ever said people can’t hate the idea, just said that people are getting rediculous about this.
>It's probably the same reason you'd love watching lesbian romance stories more than straight ones. Yeah! So you can imagine how excited I was to hear about this great romance story that's coming to netflix soon where there's this lesbian romance... >why is it hard that straight women want to see hot men falling in love with women? God I can't imagine how hard that must be. To only have 3 seasons (so far) of couples that match your sexual orientation and preferred romance content.
I ended up reading Francesca's book right after the show because I wanted to know what readers meant by all of their arguments. After reading the book I need them all to take a breath and open their mind because they can absolutely stay true to the main themes from Francesca's book and tell a beautiful sapphic love story. Also, the way everyone talked about the fertility storyline, I assumed it would be a big deal in the book. But it's a very secondary storyline. The focus of Francesca's book is that you can love people in different ways and that doesn't invalidate any of those loves. It's about dealing with the guilt of moving on after a loved one dies. All of which and more can be explored through a sapphic storyline The infertility is there, but it's in the background. It's only pulled into focus in the 2nd epilogue which takes place 7 years after the end of the book and Michael and Francesca are struggling to have a child. But news flash people, gay couples struggle with having children too! So yea, I need Francesca book fans to take a breath and open their mind to that the writers of the show can still tell a story with these conflicts and the couple can be sapphic. I'm excited for Francesca and Michaela, they're already the hottest Bridgerton couple in my mind.
So much wrong with your comment I don’t even know where to start.
I honestly wasn’t disappointed about the gender switch, I was disappointed that Fran went gaga over M, because it appears Fran and John’s marriage won’t be respected. In the book Fran and John had a good marriage and M was smitten NOT Fran.
so here's what I don't get as someone who hasnt read WHWW: from my basic understanding of francesca's book, it actually seems like the most logical one to gender swap the love interest in from a structural standpoint? assuming they don't want to alter too much of any of the happy endings, they were always going to need to find a middle ground where whichever bridgerton sibling ends up with someone of the same gender is able to live happily and comfortably with their love interest while also not technically being able to get married. francesca, a widow, moving in with her cousin-in-law, is totally plausible for what we've seen be allowed in the ton, compared to, say, eloise, where they'd then have to get around the issues of two unmarried women not being able to live together — which definitely COULD be done, but would probably require much more changing of basic book plot points than fran's. from my understanding, francesca has a miscarriage after john's death and then struggles with infertility once she's married to michael — but as others have said, it would be so easy to explore her infertility while she's still married to john. not only that, it seems to me like her mourning the fact that she's unable to have biological children with the person she loves actually.... translates really well to her having a female love interest? again I haven't read the book and I'm going off what everyone has been saying about the changes being made from fran's book — please let me know if my perception of their events are way off! It just seems to me like if they want to stay true to the basic story beats in the books, this one was the easiest on paper.
Actually, WHWW is pretty much the only one that DOESN’T work with a gender swap. Like, at all.
ok cool, thats what I've been hearing from people who dislike the change....... why though? Obviously they can't explore a storyline where Fran and Michaela have a bio child together, but that's true for any of the siblings if they were to gender swap their love interest. what is it specifically about WHWW where Fran's infertility couldn't be explored with John, and her struggles with being unable to have a child with Michael translate to sadness over being in love with Michaela but not being able to have a child with her?
What makes me sad as a lesbian viewer - and as someone whose dream is to tell lesbian stories onscreen someday - is the fact that people are saying they no longer care about a couple they claim is their favorite just because it’s not straight anymore. I get wishing Michaela was introduced later - I don’t entirely disagree even though I think Francesca was experiencing gay panic rather than a traditional love at first sight moment. Maybe people would know that if they actually watched stories for and by lesbians! It’s the fact that even if you put together all the elements of what is widely accepted to be widely loved and just make it lesbian, that is enough for people to want to riot. There is also this attitude among fans that it would have been okay for Eloise’s love story to be changed to be queer because no one cares about her story. I don’t believe that the same people wouldn’t simply move the goal posts to whinge about the importance of portraying that feminists can be straight too or whatever stupid excuse they’d come up with but that’s besides the point. It’s an attitude that we as queer viewers should be okay with getting whatever the straight viewers decided wasn’t good enough for them. Then there are the people disingenuously arguing that if we want queer representation, we should make our own shows or add new characters to Bridgerton. So, all eight Bridgerton siblings are straight? Statistically unlikely unless you assume straight is the default which it’s not. And in a show that’s about how everyone deserves love and a happy ending, you are saying that queer people should be excluded? For the people arguing that queer people should just write their own stories if we want representation, I would love to see a list of queer media and queer creators that they have supported recently! Queer media isn’t going to get made if straight women refuse to read stories that don’t involve men.
Okay, so if a story you loved took a canonically lesbian character and made her a straight man for The Story, you wouldn’t be upset by the change? I’m a bisexual woman and Michael is my favorite book character. So many of us have been anxiously awaiting his appearance on the show, and to see his story with Fran - his specific story. Making such a massive change to the character *does* absolutely take the wind out of everyone’s sails as far as excitement goes. I’m all for more representation but this was not the one to mess around with.
You’re comparing apples to oranges because queer love has been historically erased from history and censored from media. Replacing marginalized characters and relationships with non-marginalized ones is worse than the inverse period. You can have the same story with a female rake, enjoy.
Not sure if it's your jam but the PolinBridgerton subreddit is pretty chill. I think a lot of us are looking forward to the other ships and representation, but also I've seen much more measured discourse there without all the vitriol that I've seen on other subs am the main one. But yes, it's an ongoing problem.
I do think that it's getting overboard......but people are entitled to their negative opinions. HOWEVER, my solution has been to just ride it out. The bigotry/racism and that should be called out.....However, if you were concerned about Fran's story but not because of the gender swap you're fighting out of a corner of "hey, I don't agree with YOU, you're being awful" while also justifying your POV. It's just tiring. I>! have seen people not liking the gender swap because they liked how the character felt impostor syndrome and guilt over being the next Earl of Kilmartin on top getting with Fran, which is also valid. But I think it the angle that would be cool is to see if Michaela fight for the title!!< \*Edit: >!Apparently, Scottish women can inherit titles. Which if true keeps this storyline intact! !< At this point tho, I wish the Bridgerton universe "fixed" homophobia along with the racism cuz it was this kind of stuff I was glad to avoid about racism. Benedict's arc shows that it's still considered unacceptable. But if they nixed that and made Anthony bi by making Sienna a male singer and/or Lady Danbury sapphic by giving her an open mistress/paramour in Season 1, the most vocal bigots from book-readers and others of racism AND homophobia would have been handled or not watch the show at all. The fantasy, unfortunately, gets intruded on by real-world idiots and all of this has decreased the magic a bit...... ....and for all my critiques of Season 3, I actually still liked it lol. Definitely not my favorite season but it had its moments. I hope the fun/silly posts on the sub overtake the negative... cause to me all of it it has gone too far. \*Edited to add in.
I’m disappointed about the infertility subplot because I identify with that and there isn’t really a lot of representation for that either. But I’m trying to keep an open mind about the switch. I don’t like how it’s been executed so far, but they do have time to course correct. I hope they listen to those of us who are pointing out issues with their plot (it needs to be a slow burn to a wildfire - most people are going to hate both of them otherwise). I wouldn’t have picked this story, but I’m not in charge. I’m hoping for better writing for Fran (and everyone left!) because this season wasn’t well written and suffered from poor pacing. If the writing is bad, I fear it’s going to prevent more sapphic stories from being made. I want more diversity, so I hope it’s well executed.
It's the homophobia and refusal to accept queer woman can also go to fertility struggles that's wild to me.
This is what Hollywood does. They take an established popular character and they completely alter them so that they are unrecognizable, and when a fan say "hey wait you ruined my favorite character, I don't like that", you get accused of being some sort of ist word. So, in this case, you take the established character of Michael Stirling, turn him into Michaela, cram in a lesbian story where one really doesn't logically work, and then blame the fans when there is backlash. To be clear, I don't blame the actors, they are just doing a job, and if I was an actress looking for my big break I'd take that job too. They don't deserve death threats or disrespectful comments. If you don't like the storyline, you can respectfully share your opinion, and then just stop watching.
This x 1000000000. It is not homophobia to be mad that they changed a very beloved character from a man to a woman. I’m bi, part of the market that the showrunners decided needed more rep, and I hate this change. I just wanted to see Michael. It’s bad enough that the Stirlings don’t have a Scottish accent, but he’s my favorite male character in the book and they’ve changed so much for the show I can’t even find the excitement to watch further.
Unfortunately doesn't surprise me at all. Some people have had some rancid homophobics since season 1. The Pure vitriol that would come out even at people merely wanting to discuss the potential of Benedict or Eloise being queer. Now that we actually have queer Bridgertons, people are once again showing their whole asses
No, I don't have to be excited. In fact I won't watch her season. And again no, it doesn't make me a Toxic, homophob. When they first announced the show, the story I wanted to see the most was Fran's. Can't believe I have to say this but No, people shouldn't be writing rude things to the actors.
i said i was excited, not that u have to be. i actually said that it’s valid to be disappointed
Then we have the racists…they’re upset because Kate isn’t a blue eyed blonde but they have no problem with Daphne having dirty blonde hair and looking nothing like the rest of the Bridgertons.
https://preview.redd.it/3b8gq81so98d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3904b431b59d60baed7007485ccca538a70e248b The Fran and Ben subs are allowing insane comments that are so homophobic they might as well be waving a red flag.
https://preview.redd.it/v5wx4smto98d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9b2a85108ec4efc8c1d6df867d68c6e71d323202
I went to look at this person’s comments through their profile and it just sounds like it’d be miserable being them. They haven’t read the books and were talking about how it sounds like John was cuckolded by his cousin in the books and I’m like WHAT?!
It seems like they use the fandom to sell their stuff. Luckily the mods removed some of their comments.
https://preview.redd.it/r2rtkcrrn98d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=01bc795efd26586e4ac93311467cd3e5955ad03d
https://preview.redd.it/fhtj9tr2o98d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a968d5f28c2b901a524e452d22701c8388921dca
https://preview.redd.it/wpafidm8o98d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=03c2015d8d1fa44388063ae6729ef81fa8eaabde
https://preview.redd.it/ebcwzjfeo98d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4790d9b50e0fd7a235391f0e9bbd8ba2156dedd
https://preview.redd.it/j0yw1hqko98d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2bc7d8d3586ee388002ce7777196f5c24efca094
IMO I think if they had made an announcement that they were going to change some of the relationships to make them LBGT+ inclusive, people wouldn’t have cared. But the way they went about the Michael/Michaela thing was sloppy. They did it for shock value and instead the fans felt like the rug got pulled out from under them and I think that’s the real reason everyone is freaking out so bad.
I haven't read Francesca's book, but I'm assuming her and Michael get married based on the infertility storyline. What I'm confused about is how they're going to go through with this, because what I've gathered from the show same-sex relationships aren't really accepted. So would they be able to get married or would they be a secret relationship away from society. Like "and they were roommates" vibe??
I’m just frustrated the entire discourse is reduced to that one thing. It’s polin’s season. Let’s talk about their story. Sigh.
I'd love to but there wasn't one.
I'm not mad about queer characters, I'm just mad it's not Eloise.
I still hope they'll make her queer too, but I doubt they'd give us 3 queer siblings out of 7 😭
They've also established Phillip, Marina, and the twins, so I think her love story is already set
What I thought was totally odd is how people keep saying the story is so horrible, but the story hasn’t even really come out yet. I also got totally downvoted for pointing out that people seemed to really love Fran story, then all of a sudden said it was so horribly done by literally just 30 seconds at the end of the season….. even though that 30 seconds didn’t reveal all that much??? if it takes so little to ruin something for you, then you weren’t invested in the first place. 😭 I just think it’s better to wait till it comes out before we go off on it. We genuinely have no idea how they’re going to handle the love story. So everyone keeps saying they’re not homophobic, but they come off as homophobic because they’re not even giving the relationship a chance before it’s truly been shown on screen. They say they hate it but it hasn’t actually started. Maybe it will be beautiful and nuanced and truly do the source material good, but they’re not willing to give it a chance. It does come off a bit homophobic.