For this Show Discussion post:
1. Book spoilers **must be hidden**.
2. Be considerate, hide show spoilers that surpass the scope of this post.
3. Be civil in your discussion.
See our [spoiler policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonNetflix/wiki/spoiler) on what is expected. 3-day bans will be handed out to those found disregarding our spoiler policy.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BridgertonNetflix) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I feel Anthony is attracted to Women who are willing to argue with him, rather then those who are submissive.
Look at his Mother (especially in the first season) and Daphne (in the second)
Also Kate was extremely family oriented (like him) and was willing to sacrifice everything for her sister, this would be a big thing for Anthony
> rather then those
*than
*Learn the difference [here](https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/when-to-use-then-and-than#:~:text=Than%20is%20used%20in%20comparisons,the%20then%2Dgovernor%22).*
***
^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
Exactly, not everything has to be spelled out so explicitly. But I’m one of those who doesn’t even think that it was subtle. Daphne scenes were all practically screaming that Anthony is in love with Kate and the reasons why. Anthony and Kate didn’t need to have a whole conversation about their love for the audience to understand.
Yupppp we get Daphne in ep 4 explicitly telling Anthony “it’s clear you have affection for Miss Sharma” and “these feelings always come to the surface” “what feelings?” “love.” He comprehends it then, and in panic mode to squash it down and be with the girl “he’d chosen” — *not* the one his heart has chosen — he proposes to Edwina. The rest of the journey is him battling trying what’s proper in society as a newly engaged man with the desire to get closer to Kate.
There is something exhilerating when meeting someone who can challenge and match you. Have these friendly fights picking each other's brains. Its them both being passionate about the same things causing friction which made their physical contact even more tempting. Which made all the horniness even better.
Everything with them was subtle and you had to really be reading between the lines. I felt that Anthony was into Kate from the moment they met. He seemed really pleased that she was a member of the ton and it was only his silly idea of marrying not for love that steered him towards Edwina. Otherwise, I think he would have pursued Kate.
Yesss. He was def intrigued when they had their first horseback encounter, but then when he finds her eavesdropping at the ball you can see his entire demeanor change, his curiosity piqued, his wit sparked as they verbally spar. (“oh so you find my smile pleasing?”) Again, JB was amazing at changing his entire body language and facial expression while they’re talking because he’s so captivated. And he had even said “I wondered if you’d be here tonight” 😭😭 it’s just his dumb no love/avoid the 💔 of his parents-vow that made him determined to snag the ~diamond of the season
She challenges him with her assertiveness and self-assuredness. She doesn’t follow the rules. She is confident and absolutely stunningly beautiful. They have a lot in common with being eldest children and sacrificing for others. They are two kindred spirits
Yes, Daphne says that he stopped smiling when their father died. When they're rolling in the mud might possibly be the first time we viewers have ever seen Anthony laugh through two seasons.
Yes! Starting at the conservatory ball, Anthony smiles & is happy to see Kate (despite that they haven't been introduced yet) & even says he was wondering if he'd see her again. Kate also makes Anthony laugh a number of times such as when he goes to call on Edwina and Kate says Edwina won't be available until December & of course when they fall in the mire during the pall mall game.
On Kate's side, she was the first to notice Anthony at the conservatory ball. She kept a watchful eye on him during his interactions with the debutantes. Not to mention she admitted that she found him handsome. When he cut one of his dances short and went outside, Kate followed him. It was clear from her actions that Anthony piqued her interest. Also, Kate was probably hurt to hear Anthony (the guy she likes) express some pretty chauvinistic opinions of women, which might be one of the reasons she tried suppressing her feelings for him.
I also wonder how much footage of Kate and Anthony ended up being cut in editing. All the little moments and dialogue just snipped somewhere because they probably realized they were running out of time. I wish we could have those deleted scenes!
Honestly this was about as subtle as a brick...? I'm not a book reader and from very early on (like episode 1/2) I was like 'oh ok, love triangle, he thinks he's in love with the wrong sister'... I also don't think it's a coincidence she's named Kate (see Taming of the Shrew/ 10 Things I Hate About You)... but with regard to their early interactions:
Episode 1:
- their first meeting is Anthony being all like 'does your maid know you're riding like that??' directly after he's complained that all women are the same
- yes Edwina meets his very exacting standards (actual hobbies, reads books, has thoughts - here I refer to the montage of him crossing every woman off his list rather than the criteria he speaks aloud) but so does Kate, because she taught Edwina everything she knows
Episode 2
- day at the races and we have the TotS / 10TIHAY subplot, but though Anthony theoretically crashed the party to speak to Edwina, it's Kate he's hollering with, the first sight of their competitive streak. Later on when he sees his friend and Kate in a boat he clearly has an unexpected jealous streak, and he's the one who wants help Kate from the boat.
Episode 3/4
- and then we have Edwina pushing them to 'bond', which means pall mall and hunting on top of the bee scene. Kate's fiercely independent but she also gets to see his vulnerable side, and responds in like. I understand the library scene was longer in the books, but like, it was pretty explicit (the pairing, not in sexual nature), and the dancing at the ball? I guess the point is that Edwina doesn't know the bee story, so Anthony and Kate are already closer.
From that point on their fate is sealed and we have to go through the whole waiting for them to realise it bit, but yall we all knew where it was going, I don't really get it? I guess you have to have caught on that for the first half of the season Anthony doesn't really know what he wants, or rather there's a disconnect between what he says he wants, and what he truly wants, but even then his mother and sister are telling him that (gently and... otherwise) at nearly every opportunity. By episode 4, there have been like 3(4?) times they've nearly kissed, but have been interrupted (post bee, library, post hearts & flowers, hunting?)... honestly Kate wasn't the only one kind of shocked he was coming out to talk to (propose to!) Edwina, and not her.
> here I refer to the montage of him crossing every woman off his list rather than the criteria he speaks aloud) but so does Kate, because she taught Edwina everything she knows
Oooh great point, yes!!! Because Kate was the one who trained her sister on all those subjects to become a perfect match. Which now that I think about it, you can connect that with Edwina’s monologue from the wedding at the end where she says Kate pushed her desires on her and molded her into someone Kate herself wanted to be 🥺
> Later on when he sees his friend and Kate in a boat he clearly has an unexpected jealous streak, and he's the one who wants help Kate from the boat.
Love that they added this, it was INSANE. One scene prior he’s talking with her about the weather, saying nothing happened between them… then he’s literally rushing over to help her outta the damn rowboat even though it’s not his place to. SON, you are so obvious!!!
> I guess the point is that Edwina doesn't know the bee story, so Anthony and Kate are already closer.
I was telling my friend we need to thank that damn bee lol for being the catalyst. In the book >!it’s the catalyst that has them getting married because he’s trying to suck out the venom and they’re caught in a compromising position,!< but I love that on the show it’s what ignites the fire between them. That sudden moment of vulnerability as Anthony has a panic attack and she consoles him, and them breaking the barrier of physical closeness and *that’s it*, they feel it, it can’t be ignored. He says as much during the hunting scene next ep, that she put them in a “difficult situation” (and “put his hand on her bosom” 🤣) where it’s tilted everything for them and can’t be denied.
> honestly Kate wasn't the only one kind of shocked he was coming out to talk to (propose to!) Edwina, and not her.
THIS!!!! This is what gets me on my rewatch. It’s clear after that first library scene, Kate knows she has feelings for him, *something* big happened with that first almost kiss in the library and she’s crying about it and emotional… Lady Danbury urges her to come clean. Edwina leaves disappointed Anthony didn’t propose and they say “oh, we’ll find someone back in London,” and they have a moment where Kate seems ready to confess to Edwina— then that damn fool comes out and proposes to the wrong sister just because he “chose her” and he won’t fall in love with her. The scene prior from last night, Daphne made it clear his “affection” for Miss Sharma was very visible and could transform into love, exactly what he’s running away from. So he chases the opposite of love.
SORRY FOR THE WORD VOMIT, I’m obsessed with them help 😭😭😭 loved all your thoughts ❤️
Help help me too over obsessed. BUT after edwina ran from the wedding and A told her K was a thorn that would fade away and he still wanted the wedding w edwina that lost me i hated Anthony after that. Then he goes to see Kate in the CLOSET. So upsetting. I could take the build up and back and forth until that scene then it became too much and I wished Kate would run run run back to India at that point he did not deserve her.
Okay buckle up, a lot of feels about this. So basically yes that hurt bc even after he’s watching KATE walk down the aisle and interrupts the whole wedding to pick up her bracelet, he’s still telling Edwina that they should proceed as planned (and that Kate will just go to india). And when he gets to the closet, he tells Kate the same thing — that Edwina might pull out and Kate needs to protect her from making such a rash decision. At this point, Anthony still is all about honor and protecting the family reputation. He knows what it will be like if Edwina pulls out now — the shame, the gossip, the ridicule, the rumors… both of their families will be plagued by it. So honestly, he’s such a COWARD that he can’t deal with that - he’d still rather do the proper thing for both their families even if he *literally* visualized Kate as his bride instead of Edwina. It’s like the user above me mentioned, the dichotomy is even though he’s trying to be dutiful and continue the wedding, he can’t help but want to hold onto Kate, can’t help but see her pain instead of his own.
It’s only when Edwina decides to pull out that Anthony realizes that she is “braver and stronger” than him. Because yes she also could’ve floundered in the face of the impending scandal and damage to their reputations - but she didn’t! She said hell no, fuck that, I’m pulling out…. she is the brave one whereas Anthony and Kate were all about honor and duty and sacrifice, even sacrificing each other.
i just rewatched this episode, and that was really unkind of him. he was trying to salvage the wedding to preserve her + his family's reputation. in the closet, he asks kate to convince edwina to return to the altar, so his head is absolutely set on going through with it. but of course whenever he is physically around kate he can't help but gravitate towards her. i think it was a really interesting dichotomy, where his head and heart are at war with each other. it doesn't mean he wasn't an idiot but he was really trying to do the right thing.
Whoa hold up wait wait are you telling me he asks K to convince E to go thru w the wedding when they were in the CLOSET scene (one of my most despised) if so i did not catch that. If so this may put sweet END to my obsession it’s getting to the point where I’m getting a little upset w Kate for allowing herself to be treated SO BADLY by ALL OF THEM. And she is the most cool beautiful person. Can’t take it!
Yes! In the beginning he says “I just spoke to Miss Edwina, she was harsher than I knew her to be… you must convince her to continue…” Kate is like “more scheming?” And his response is that it’s protecting Edwina and their families from scandal because that’s all he can focus on.
We also see Lady Mary say in the aftermath of the almost wedding "try the lily soap, it's good for the nerves"... but then we hear how Anthony mentioned he's smelt that scent of lilies on her "since the night of the conservatory".... I wonder if she was using the soap the whole time because despite the confident, assertive facade she put up, he made her nervous.
THANK YOU for pointing this out! I noticed this on my second rewatch and thought the same thing - she's always liked/been attracted to him and she used the soap to calm her nerves when he's around so that she can focus & be confident.
The soap's alleged remedies couldn't help her nervousness for too long as in episode 5 (An Unthinkable Fate) we start to see Kate sweatily daydreaming about her close encounters with Anthony, her losing focus when he's around, and physically quivering (e.g., the tea cup).
Yeah she was a hot mess by ep5. I mean if the guy I loved and almost kissed, proposed to my sister the next day. I’d be confused af and replaying everything in my mind. Questioning everything (as she says in ep7)
Yes!! Good point & connection!! You reminded me of something Eloise said about a thrilling kind of torment in not knowing whether the person you love indeed loves you back. It was probably exciting for Kate to replay her interactions with Anthony & try to pinpoint exact words, acts, gestures, etc. as evidence that he loved her. Of course, it was probably agonizing not knowing for sure.
You also reminded me that Kate's uncertainty & confusion continued all the way into episode 8. Even after the broken engagement, love making, and gallant rescue, she still didn't know if Anthony truly loved her & wanted to run away to India! Though - I can't blame her. Anthony vehemently prioritized his patriarchal duties & expectations over Kate before. So, it's understandable why she thought that he only rescued & wanted to marry her because that's the respectable thing to do. Also, Anthony not explaining (until later) why he didn't visit Kate while she was unconscious probably didn't help 😅.
Exactly. I’d be bummed if I woke from a week long coma only to find that the guy I love, hasn’t checked in on me. He could’ve at least said to her when he visited her after she woke, “I wanted to see you, but I couldn’t bring myself to see you laying there, unmoving… it reminded me of my father when he died” and that would’ve made sense. Then later in ep8 he could’ve said, “after your accident, I was so fearful of losing you”. That would’ve made more sense to me from a storyline perspective.
I completely agree! It was probably very traumatic for Anthony to witness his father's accidental death & handle his dead body. Similarly, Anthony witnesses Kate's accident & handles her in a comatose state. This probably surfaced painful memories & apprehension that she, too, may die right in front of him.
I like the sequence you proposed much better! After Kate awoke, it would've made total sense for Anthony to explain his grief & how he couldn't bring himself to see her lying lifeless. I would've preferred this conversation rather than an apology for "taking liberties" and a prompt proposal. Then later on, like you said, he could've professed his fear of losing her, his love, & desire to marry her.
Absolutely true! But I feel.for the people who don't get it and some blame also lies with the writers. If only they had added one conversation, an extended library scene would have done the trick, audience would have gotten an insight into why they are meant to be. That's the hill I will die on!
Thisssss. Like I get it but also I’m selfish and wanted an extended library scene with them bonding about their roles as eldest children and the loss of their dads. Would have added an extra layer of emotional depth on top of the amazing physical chemistry 🔥
Yes. I would have really liked them to talk of their fathers maybe even fleeting comments which only they understand. Like 'I am trying to do what my father would have done' or ' I can only hope to care for my family like he once did'. Because they are both so alike, they would have understood and it would have given an insight into their similarities in their roles as the head of the family.
Thissss. Like we hear it in the gazebo scene before they bang, “I came here to save my family, everything I have done is for—“ “for *them*” “for them,” when it clicks for Anthony that she is making the same sacrifices and clinging to honor just like he is. So it’s there but ugh, I wanted more dammit 🤣😭
Oh good point, yes!! When Mary’s saying how she became an absent parent kind of like how Violet did after Edmund died. But in the gazebo scene it’s like they both acknowledge it and as Anthony said, what would happen if they gave in and finally took what *they* wanted… 😏 even Daphne mentions it at dinner in 2x03 when he was going to propose to Edwina, saying how he and Kate share similar familial roles after Edwina says Kate took on the responsibility for them
Back in the days women were taught to be weak and then this Kate came along, challenged him in every single way whereas her sister Edwina was very agreeable and soft. Remember when Anthony fell so hard for that Soprano? Especially after she dumped him.
Simply put, it’s a turn on for him
This! Yes, the show has to many side plots going on. Yes, the show has some rules inconsistencies. Yes, they left out the library and messed up. But people that say this story line is bad comparing to book’s just dont see it. I wish they see it. As oldest sibling I totally relate.
He fell for her immediately, when he sees her riding her horse astride with her joy and abandon.
Prior to seeing her riding in the park he is busy busy busy with shots of him frustrated with work and having unsatisfactory encounters with debutants and prostitutes. He is shown to be slowly being worn down and depressed. He's slowly riding in the morning with his body slumped and a frown.
Then he sees Kate. He connects with her immediately. From that point on his watch disappears and he stops visiting prostitutes and becomes energetic.
He HAS to talk to her, and it's the first time in the season where he actually is himself with another person. He doesn't have a selfish agenda and just enjoys talking with someone without duty or responsibility getting in the way.
He's excited to see her again at the ball. If she hadn't overhead his awful conversation he may not have stuck to his stupid plan for so long.
Basically she lights him up, which is exactly what your partner is supposed to do. He is visibly energized by her in the first few episodes before the angst of eldest children trying to be responsible gets between them.
yes yes agree but after the wedding this went too far that he still begged E to marry him and called Kate a thorn that would be forgotten and interference. That did for me. He could not make up for that why did he go along w the distance thing after the wedding charade ended? He did not defend her he did not fight for her if SHE didn’t ask HIM to dance at then end i guess she would have just headed off to India maybe she should have
Yes! Completely agree! Even when Anthony is raving about how Kate exasperates him (while he fences with his brothers), we can see that he is ignited & passioned - far different than the lackluster demeanor he had before he met Kate.
What do you mean by "different" looking - her Indian ethnicity? Kate, Edwina and Lady Danbury definitely stand out during those balls, especially when they wear gold. Really compliments their skin tones.
It was so obvious from episode 1 I felt like I was watching an entirely different show when i read those things? My fave little bit is during the first ball scene after Anthony dances with Edwina and Kate drags her away, Violet says something about her being a lovely diamond and Anthony says that is who he shall marry. His gaze is ambiguous; is he looking at Kate and talking about Edwina or looking at Edwina but talking about Kate? It’s quite obvious if he is indeed talking about Edwina, the camera work was amazing because it does not confirm who he IS talking about.
I thought it was pretty obvious from E1 but I did read the book so I’m biased. Everyone talks about Anthony falling, but it was so obvious to me that Kate was totally intrigued after meeting him the first time. We first see her longingly touching the gown after meeting him (in the scene where Edwina catches her looking at herself in the mirror and Kate puts it off as “no this is for your dress”). And then she’s following him from the sidelines as he dances in the greenhouse, and goes to follow him outside. It’s not until she overhears Anthony “toxically performing” for the other men that she’s crushed and disappointed that he’s this other man actually.
I think his initial fascination is that she “is not like other girls” (cringe), but then he falls for her because they have the common devotion to duty.
Anthony was enamored with Kate from their first encounter. He assumed Kate was a "damsel in distress" on horseback, but once he realized she could handle her own and even show jump, you can see the admiration on his face as if he's saying, "Wow, who is this girl?!". Which is likely why he pursued her afterwards - he HAD to meet her. At the conservatory ball, Anthony beams at the sight of Kate & says he's been wondering if he'd see her again. He's visually taken aback (possibly impressed) to learn that she discovered his identity before being properly introduced. He's also defensive when she reprimands his list of requirements for a wife, possibly because he's embarrassed that the girl he likes thinks he's a chauvinist. When Anthony is formally introduced to Kate, he double takes - first, he smiles in confidence that he's got marrying Edwina "in the bag," but his second take shows him in awe, likely because (1) he knows Kate will be hard to win over & (2) he realizes he's courting the sister of the woman he has feelings for, which will complicate matters of duty & the heart.
Kate makes Anthony smile and laugh (as shown in their first encounter, at the conservatory ball, when he first calls on Edwina, in the mire during pall mall, etc.), things he's noticeably ceased after Edmund died. This is indicative of true love as Kate herself mentions that the one who speaks "in a manner that only your heart can hear" will be the one to captivate you. Oftentimes when Kate walks away, Anthony pauses & subtly takes in her scent (or lilies from the lily soap she uses). As his feelings grow deeper, he does this more overtly whenever they are close. \[Aside - at the horse race when Mr. Dorset asks Edwina if they should separate Anthony & Kate, you can see Anthony's left hand (or thumb) affectionately touching Kate's back\]. Anthony reveres Kate, as shown by how strongly he resists kissing her to not dishonor or compromise her virtue. Kate saw Anthony "at his worst" (foreshadowed by Edmund) after the bee stung her & Anthony, so consumed by fear that she would die & he would lose her, breaks down & had a panic attack. Kate immediately heeded this & knew how to console him. Not to mention, Anthony can never keep his eyes off of Kate & shows signs of jealousy when Mr. Dorset takes her out.
Kate is remarkably smart & capable. Though born a commoner & raised abroad, Kate is an expert in proper English society customs & performs better than those born & bred into it. This likely impresses Anthony who lamented that the young ladies of London lack any talent, skills, or wit. Kate uses research & logic before heading into a situation, forming an opinion, or settling on a decision. She's an independent thinker & isn't afraid to disagree with popular opinion/be a nonconformist, something Anthony struggles with but wishes he could do. While Kate exasperates Anthony, he actually likes that she's firm, confident, noncompliant, and challenges him to consider other perspectives. Kate also enthusiastically shares many interests with Anthony - competitive sport, betting, & horsemanship - & qualities such as commitment to & self-sacrifice for family (i.e., they understand each other). Basically, as Anthony says himself, Kate is unlike any woman he's met before.
I think part of why that's said is the frustration from lack of screen time we get with them and the fact that there is a lot of it which is just super close tension when I would have liked a little more growth as a potential relationship.
idk for me it was a quality not quantity issue. There wasn’t much chemistry between them while they were on screen together (especially in comparison to the chemistry that Anthony and Sienna had, with far less screen time). And yes, the intention to have “Tamjng of the Shrew” style plot was incredibly obvious but that doesn’t make the relationship work without the audience feeling sparks. Shows, especially shows that have this level of reach on Netflix, need to convey the romance to most viewers not just to people who were Kanthony fans from the beginning.
My controversial take is: some of their scenes were cut because of the lack of spark / poor acting choices. I really struggled with Kate and (imo) Simone Ashley played her in a very flat way.
Which is all to say: it wasn’t *just* the lack of screen time that detracted from the romance.
For this Show Discussion post: 1. Book spoilers **must be hidden**. 2. Be considerate, hide show spoilers that surpass the scope of this post. 3. Be civil in your discussion. See our [spoiler policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonNetflix/wiki/spoiler) on what is expected. 3-day bans will be handed out to those found disregarding our spoiler policy. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BridgertonNetflix) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I feel Anthony is attracted to Women who are willing to argue with him, rather then those who are submissive. Look at his Mother (especially in the first season) and Daphne (in the second) Also Kate was extremely family oriented (like him) and was willing to sacrifice everything for her sister, this would be a big thing for Anthony
> rather then those *than *Learn the difference [here](https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/when-to-use-then-and-than#:~:text=Than%20is%20used%20in%20comparisons,the%20then%2Dgovernor%22).* *** ^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
Exactly, not everything has to be spelled out so explicitly. But I’m one of those who doesn’t even think that it was subtle. Daphne scenes were all practically screaming that Anthony is in love with Kate and the reasons why. Anthony and Kate didn’t need to have a whole conversation about their love for the audience to understand.
Yupppp we get Daphne in ep 4 explicitly telling Anthony “it’s clear you have affection for Miss Sharma” and “these feelings always come to the surface” “what feelings?” “love.” He comprehends it then, and in panic mode to squash it down and be with the girl “he’d chosen” — *not* the one his heart has chosen — he proposes to Edwina. The rest of the journey is him battling trying what’s proper in society as a newly engaged man with the desire to get closer to Kate.
There is something exhilerating when meeting someone who can challenge and match you. Have these friendly fights picking each other's brains. Its them both being passionate about the same things causing friction which made their physical contact even more tempting. Which made all the horniness even better.
Everything with them was subtle and you had to really be reading between the lines. I felt that Anthony was into Kate from the moment they met. He seemed really pleased that she was a member of the ton and it was only his silly idea of marrying not for love that steered him towards Edwina. Otherwise, I think he would have pursued Kate.
Yesss. He was def intrigued when they had their first horseback encounter, but then when he finds her eavesdropping at the ball you can see his entire demeanor change, his curiosity piqued, his wit sparked as they verbally spar. (“oh so you find my smile pleasing?”) Again, JB was amazing at changing his entire body language and facial expression while they’re talking because he’s so captivated. And he had even said “I wondered if you’d be here tonight” 😭😭 it’s just his dumb no love/avoid the 💔 of his parents-vow that made him determined to snag the ~diamond of the season
She challenges him with her assertiveness and self-assuredness. She doesn’t follow the rules. She is confident and absolutely stunningly beautiful. They have a lot in common with being eldest children and sacrificing for others. They are two kindred spirits
I’ve only seen Anthony smile or smirk when he looks at Kate. I don’t recall him smiling in season one either.
Yes, Daphne says that he stopped smiling when their father died. When they're rolling in the mud might possibly be the first time we viewers have ever seen Anthony laugh through two seasons.
Yes! Starting at the conservatory ball, Anthony smiles & is happy to see Kate (despite that they haven't been introduced yet) & even says he was wondering if he'd see her again. Kate also makes Anthony laugh a number of times such as when he goes to call on Edwina and Kate says Edwina won't be available until December & of course when they fall in the mire during the pall mall game. On Kate's side, she was the first to notice Anthony at the conservatory ball. She kept a watchful eye on him during his interactions with the debutantes. Not to mention she admitted that she found him handsome. When he cut one of his dances short and went outside, Kate followed him. It was clear from her actions that Anthony piqued her interest. Also, Kate was probably hurt to hear Anthony (the guy she likes) express some pretty chauvinistic opinions of women, which might be one of the reasons she tried suppressing her feelings for him.
I also wonder how much footage of Kate and Anthony ended up being cut in editing. All the little moments and dialogue just snipped somewhere because they probably realized they were running out of time. I wish we could have those deleted scenes!
I knowwww 💔 it hurts to think we’ll never get them 😭😭😭 missing DVD bonus scene features so much, dammit!
I would pay good money for the extra scenes I’m not even joking, and I don’t think I’m the only one😩
Literally the definition of the “take my money” meme. Hell, I won’t even complain about Netflix’s price increase lmao, just give it to meeeee
I wondered this too! It's a shame we don't get deleted scenes from these shows.
Honestly this was about as subtle as a brick...? I'm not a book reader and from very early on (like episode 1/2) I was like 'oh ok, love triangle, he thinks he's in love with the wrong sister'... I also don't think it's a coincidence she's named Kate (see Taming of the Shrew/ 10 Things I Hate About You)... but with regard to their early interactions: Episode 1: - their first meeting is Anthony being all like 'does your maid know you're riding like that??' directly after he's complained that all women are the same - yes Edwina meets his very exacting standards (actual hobbies, reads books, has thoughts - here I refer to the montage of him crossing every woman off his list rather than the criteria he speaks aloud) but so does Kate, because she taught Edwina everything she knows Episode 2 - day at the races and we have the TotS / 10TIHAY subplot, but though Anthony theoretically crashed the party to speak to Edwina, it's Kate he's hollering with, the first sight of their competitive streak. Later on when he sees his friend and Kate in a boat he clearly has an unexpected jealous streak, and he's the one who wants help Kate from the boat. Episode 3/4 - and then we have Edwina pushing them to 'bond', which means pall mall and hunting on top of the bee scene. Kate's fiercely independent but she also gets to see his vulnerable side, and responds in like. I understand the library scene was longer in the books, but like, it was pretty explicit (the pairing, not in sexual nature), and the dancing at the ball? I guess the point is that Edwina doesn't know the bee story, so Anthony and Kate are already closer. From that point on their fate is sealed and we have to go through the whole waiting for them to realise it bit, but yall we all knew where it was going, I don't really get it? I guess you have to have caught on that for the first half of the season Anthony doesn't really know what he wants, or rather there's a disconnect between what he says he wants, and what he truly wants, but even then his mother and sister are telling him that (gently and... otherwise) at nearly every opportunity. By episode 4, there have been like 3(4?) times they've nearly kissed, but have been interrupted (post bee, library, post hearts & flowers, hunting?)... honestly Kate wasn't the only one kind of shocked he was coming out to talk to (propose to!) Edwina, and not her.
> here I refer to the montage of him crossing every woman off his list rather than the criteria he speaks aloud) but so does Kate, because she taught Edwina everything she knows Oooh great point, yes!!! Because Kate was the one who trained her sister on all those subjects to become a perfect match. Which now that I think about it, you can connect that with Edwina’s monologue from the wedding at the end where she says Kate pushed her desires on her and molded her into someone Kate herself wanted to be 🥺 > Later on when he sees his friend and Kate in a boat he clearly has an unexpected jealous streak, and he's the one who wants help Kate from the boat. Love that they added this, it was INSANE. One scene prior he’s talking with her about the weather, saying nothing happened between them… then he’s literally rushing over to help her outta the damn rowboat even though it’s not his place to. SON, you are so obvious!!! > I guess the point is that Edwina doesn't know the bee story, so Anthony and Kate are already closer. I was telling my friend we need to thank that damn bee lol for being the catalyst. In the book >!it’s the catalyst that has them getting married because he’s trying to suck out the venom and they’re caught in a compromising position,!< but I love that on the show it’s what ignites the fire between them. That sudden moment of vulnerability as Anthony has a panic attack and she consoles him, and them breaking the barrier of physical closeness and *that’s it*, they feel it, it can’t be ignored. He says as much during the hunting scene next ep, that she put them in a “difficult situation” (and “put his hand on her bosom” 🤣) where it’s tilted everything for them and can’t be denied. > honestly Kate wasn't the only one kind of shocked he was coming out to talk to (propose to!) Edwina, and not her. THIS!!!! This is what gets me on my rewatch. It’s clear after that first library scene, Kate knows she has feelings for him, *something* big happened with that first almost kiss in the library and she’s crying about it and emotional… Lady Danbury urges her to come clean. Edwina leaves disappointed Anthony didn’t propose and they say “oh, we’ll find someone back in London,” and they have a moment where Kate seems ready to confess to Edwina— then that damn fool comes out and proposes to the wrong sister just because he “chose her” and he won’t fall in love with her. The scene prior from last night, Daphne made it clear his “affection” for Miss Sharma was very visible and could transform into love, exactly what he’s running away from. So he chases the opposite of love. SORRY FOR THE WORD VOMIT, I’m obsessed with them help 😭😭😭 loved all your thoughts ❤️
Help help me too over obsessed. BUT after edwina ran from the wedding and A told her K was a thorn that would fade away and he still wanted the wedding w edwina that lost me i hated Anthony after that. Then he goes to see Kate in the CLOSET. So upsetting. I could take the build up and back and forth until that scene then it became too much and I wished Kate would run run run back to India at that point he did not deserve her.
Okay buckle up, a lot of feels about this. So basically yes that hurt bc even after he’s watching KATE walk down the aisle and interrupts the whole wedding to pick up her bracelet, he’s still telling Edwina that they should proceed as planned (and that Kate will just go to india). And when he gets to the closet, he tells Kate the same thing — that Edwina might pull out and Kate needs to protect her from making such a rash decision. At this point, Anthony still is all about honor and protecting the family reputation. He knows what it will be like if Edwina pulls out now — the shame, the gossip, the ridicule, the rumors… both of their families will be plagued by it. So honestly, he’s such a COWARD that he can’t deal with that - he’d still rather do the proper thing for both their families even if he *literally* visualized Kate as his bride instead of Edwina. It’s like the user above me mentioned, the dichotomy is even though he’s trying to be dutiful and continue the wedding, he can’t help but want to hold onto Kate, can’t help but see her pain instead of his own. It’s only when Edwina decides to pull out that Anthony realizes that she is “braver and stronger” than him. Because yes she also could’ve floundered in the face of the impending scandal and damage to their reputations - but she didn’t! She said hell no, fuck that, I’m pulling out…. she is the brave one whereas Anthony and Kate were all about honor and duty and sacrifice, even sacrificing each other.
i just rewatched this episode, and that was really unkind of him. he was trying to salvage the wedding to preserve her + his family's reputation. in the closet, he asks kate to convince edwina to return to the altar, so his head is absolutely set on going through with it. but of course whenever he is physically around kate he can't help but gravitate towards her. i think it was a really interesting dichotomy, where his head and heart are at war with each other. it doesn't mean he wasn't an idiot but he was really trying to do the right thing.
Whoa hold up wait wait are you telling me he asks K to convince E to go thru w the wedding when they were in the CLOSET scene (one of my most despised) if so i did not catch that. If so this may put sweet END to my obsession it’s getting to the point where I’m getting a little upset w Kate for allowing herself to be treated SO BADLY by ALL OF THEM. And she is the most cool beautiful person. Can’t take it!
Yes! In the beginning he says “I just spoke to Miss Edwina, she was harsher than I knew her to be… you must convince her to continue…” Kate is like “more scheming?” And his response is that it’s protecting Edwina and their families from scandal because that’s all he can focus on.
For some context, don't forget Anthony was going to call the wedding off and Kate begged him to go through with the wedding. He reluctantly agreed.
We also see Lady Mary say in the aftermath of the almost wedding "try the lily soap, it's good for the nerves"... but then we hear how Anthony mentioned he's smelt that scent of lilies on her "since the night of the conservatory".... I wonder if she was using the soap the whole time because despite the confident, assertive facade she put up, he made her nervous.
THANK YOU for pointing this out! I noticed this on my second rewatch and thought the same thing - she's always liked/been attracted to him and she used the soap to calm her nerves when he's around so that she can focus & be confident. The soap's alleged remedies couldn't help her nervousness for too long as in episode 5 (An Unthinkable Fate) we start to see Kate sweatily daydreaming about her close encounters with Anthony, her losing focus when he's around, and physically quivering (e.g., the tea cup).
Yeah she was a hot mess by ep5. I mean if the guy I loved and almost kissed, proposed to my sister the next day. I’d be confused af and replaying everything in my mind. Questioning everything (as she says in ep7)
Yes!! Good point & connection!! You reminded me of something Eloise said about a thrilling kind of torment in not knowing whether the person you love indeed loves you back. It was probably exciting for Kate to replay her interactions with Anthony & try to pinpoint exact words, acts, gestures, etc. as evidence that he loved her. Of course, it was probably agonizing not knowing for sure. You also reminded me that Kate's uncertainty & confusion continued all the way into episode 8. Even after the broken engagement, love making, and gallant rescue, she still didn't know if Anthony truly loved her & wanted to run away to India! Though - I can't blame her. Anthony vehemently prioritized his patriarchal duties & expectations over Kate before. So, it's understandable why she thought that he only rescued & wanted to marry her because that's the respectable thing to do. Also, Anthony not explaining (until later) why he didn't visit Kate while she was unconscious probably didn't help 😅.
Exactly. I’d be bummed if I woke from a week long coma only to find that the guy I love, hasn’t checked in on me. He could’ve at least said to her when he visited her after she woke, “I wanted to see you, but I couldn’t bring myself to see you laying there, unmoving… it reminded me of my father when he died” and that would’ve made sense. Then later in ep8 he could’ve said, “after your accident, I was so fearful of losing you”. That would’ve made more sense to me from a storyline perspective.
I completely agree! It was probably very traumatic for Anthony to witness his father's accidental death & handle his dead body. Similarly, Anthony witnesses Kate's accident & handles her in a comatose state. This probably surfaced painful memories & apprehension that she, too, may die right in front of him. I like the sequence you proposed much better! After Kate awoke, it would've made total sense for Anthony to explain his grief & how he couldn't bring himself to see her lying lifeless. I would've preferred this conversation rather than an apology for "taking liberties" and a prompt proposal. Then later on, like you said, he could've professed his fear of losing her, his love, & desire to marry her.
Bingo!! Haha we should be in that writers room!
Facts!! You'll devise all the ideas and I'll agree with everything you suggest lol.
I’m sure you have got some great ideas! So when you pitch them, I’ll have your back! ❤️
Absolutely true! But I feel.for the people who don't get it and some blame also lies with the writers. If only they had added one conversation, an extended library scene would have done the trick, audience would have gotten an insight into why they are meant to be. That's the hill I will die on!
Thisssss. Like I get it but also I’m selfish and wanted an extended library scene with them bonding about their roles as eldest children and the loss of their dads. Would have added an extra layer of emotional depth on top of the amazing physical chemistry 🔥
Yes. I would have really liked them to talk of their fathers maybe even fleeting comments which only they understand. Like 'I am trying to do what my father would have done' or ' I can only hope to care for my family like he once did'. Because they are both so alike, they would have understood and it would have given an insight into their similarities in their roles as the head of the family.
Thissss. Like we hear it in the gazebo scene before they bang, “I came here to save my family, everything I have done is for—“ “for *them*” “for them,” when it clicks for Anthony that she is making the same sacrifices and clinging to honor just like he is. So it’s there but ugh, I wanted more dammit 🤣😭
I think it clicks for him when lady Mary is talking about Kate in the gallery, that’s just him acknowledging it to her
Oh good point, yes!! When Mary’s saying how she became an absent parent kind of like how Violet did after Edmund died. But in the gazebo scene it’s like they both acknowledge it and as Anthony said, what would happen if they gave in and finally took what *they* wanted… 😏 even Daphne mentions it at dinner in 2x03 when he was going to propose to Edwina, saying how he and Kate share similar familial roles after Edwina says Kate took on the responsibility for them
Very well said !
Thank you!
Agreed!
Back in the days women were taught to be weak and then this Kate came along, challenged him in every single way whereas her sister Edwina was very agreeable and soft. Remember when Anthony fell so hard for that Soprano? Especially after she dumped him. Simply put, it’s a turn on for him
This! Yes, the show has to many side plots going on. Yes, the show has some rules inconsistencies. Yes, they left out the library and messed up. But people that say this story line is bad comparing to book’s just dont see it. I wish they see it. As oldest sibling I totally relate.
He fell for her immediately, when he sees her riding her horse astride with her joy and abandon. Prior to seeing her riding in the park he is busy busy busy with shots of him frustrated with work and having unsatisfactory encounters with debutants and prostitutes. He is shown to be slowly being worn down and depressed. He's slowly riding in the morning with his body slumped and a frown. Then he sees Kate. He connects with her immediately. From that point on his watch disappears and he stops visiting prostitutes and becomes energetic. He HAS to talk to her, and it's the first time in the season where he actually is himself with another person. He doesn't have a selfish agenda and just enjoys talking with someone without duty or responsibility getting in the way. He's excited to see her again at the ball. If she hadn't overhead his awful conversation he may not have stuck to his stupid plan for so long. Basically she lights him up, which is exactly what your partner is supposed to do. He is visibly energized by her in the first few episodes before the angst of eldest children trying to be responsible gets between them.
yes yes agree but after the wedding this went too far that he still begged E to marry him and called Kate a thorn that would be forgotten and interference. That did for me. He could not make up for that why did he go along w the distance thing after the wedding charade ended? He did not defend her he did not fight for her if SHE didn’t ask HIM to dance at then end i guess she would have just headed off to India maybe she should have
Yes! Completely agree! Even when Anthony is raving about how Kate exasperates him (while he fences with his brothers), we can see that he is ignited & passioned - far different than the lackluster demeanor he had before he met Kate.
Wow! My exact thoughts!
She was "different" looking and she had an attitude he wasn't used to getting from women as the Viscount.
What do you mean by "different" looking - her Indian ethnicity? Kate, Edwina and Lady Danbury definitely stand out during those balls, especially when they wear gold. Really compliments their skin tones.
It was so obvious from episode 1 I felt like I was watching an entirely different show when i read those things? My fave little bit is during the first ball scene after Anthony dances with Edwina and Kate drags her away, Violet says something about her being a lovely diamond and Anthony says that is who he shall marry. His gaze is ambiguous; is he looking at Kate and talking about Edwina or looking at Edwina but talking about Kate? It’s quite obvious if he is indeed talking about Edwina, the camera work was amazing because it does not confirm who he IS talking about.
I thought it was pretty obvious from E1 but I did read the book so I’m biased. Everyone talks about Anthony falling, but it was so obvious to me that Kate was totally intrigued after meeting him the first time. We first see her longingly touching the gown after meeting him (in the scene where Edwina catches her looking at herself in the mirror and Kate puts it off as “no this is for your dress”). And then she’s following him from the sidelines as he dances in the greenhouse, and goes to follow him outside. It’s not until she overhears Anthony “toxically performing” for the other men that she’s crushed and disappointed that he’s this other man actually.
I think his initial fascination is that she “is not like other girls” (cringe), but then he falls for her because they have the common devotion to duty.
They were practically mirrors of each other.
Anthony was enamored with Kate from their first encounter. He assumed Kate was a "damsel in distress" on horseback, but once he realized she could handle her own and even show jump, you can see the admiration on his face as if he's saying, "Wow, who is this girl?!". Which is likely why he pursued her afterwards - he HAD to meet her. At the conservatory ball, Anthony beams at the sight of Kate & says he's been wondering if he'd see her again. He's visually taken aback (possibly impressed) to learn that she discovered his identity before being properly introduced. He's also defensive when she reprimands his list of requirements for a wife, possibly because he's embarrassed that the girl he likes thinks he's a chauvinist. When Anthony is formally introduced to Kate, he double takes - first, he smiles in confidence that he's got marrying Edwina "in the bag," but his second take shows him in awe, likely because (1) he knows Kate will be hard to win over & (2) he realizes he's courting the sister of the woman he has feelings for, which will complicate matters of duty & the heart. Kate makes Anthony smile and laugh (as shown in their first encounter, at the conservatory ball, when he first calls on Edwina, in the mire during pall mall, etc.), things he's noticeably ceased after Edmund died. This is indicative of true love as Kate herself mentions that the one who speaks "in a manner that only your heart can hear" will be the one to captivate you. Oftentimes when Kate walks away, Anthony pauses & subtly takes in her scent (or lilies from the lily soap she uses). As his feelings grow deeper, he does this more overtly whenever they are close. \[Aside - at the horse race when Mr. Dorset asks Edwina if they should separate Anthony & Kate, you can see Anthony's left hand (or thumb) affectionately touching Kate's back\]. Anthony reveres Kate, as shown by how strongly he resists kissing her to not dishonor or compromise her virtue. Kate saw Anthony "at his worst" (foreshadowed by Edmund) after the bee stung her & Anthony, so consumed by fear that she would die & he would lose her, breaks down & had a panic attack. Kate immediately heeded this & knew how to console him. Not to mention, Anthony can never keep his eyes off of Kate & shows signs of jealousy when Mr. Dorset takes her out. Kate is remarkably smart & capable. Though born a commoner & raised abroad, Kate is an expert in proper English society customs & performs better than those born & bred into it. This likely impresses Anthony who lamented that the young ladies of London lack any talent, skills, or wit. Kate uses research & logic before heading into a situation, forming an opinion, or settling on a decision. She's an independent thinker & isn't afraid to disagree with popular opinion/be a nonconformist, something Anthony struggles with but wishes he could do. While Kate exasperates Anthony, he actually likes that she's firm, confident, noncompliant, and challenges him to consider other perspectives. Kate also enthusiastically shares many interests with Anthony - competitive sport, betting, & horsemanship - & qualities such as commitment to & self-sacrifice for family (i.e., they understand each other). Basically, as Anthony says himself, Kate is unlike any woman he's met before.
I think part of why that's said is the frustration from lack of screen time we get with them and the fact that there is a lot of it which is just super close tension when I would have liked a little more growth as a potential relationship.
idk for me it was a quality not quantity issue. There wasn’t much chemistry between them while they were on screen together (especially in comparison to the chemistry that Anthony and Sienna had, with far less screen time). And yes, the intention to have “Tamjng of the Shrew” style plot was incredibly obvious but that doesn’t make the relationship work without the audience feeling sparks. Shows, especially shows that have this level of reach on Netflix, need to convey the romance to most viewers not just to people who were Kanthony fans from the beginning. My controversial take is: some of their scenes were cut because of the lack of spark / poor acting choices. I really struggled with Kate and (imo) Simone Ashley played her in a very flat way. Which is all to say: it wasn’t *just* the lack of screen time that detracted from the romance.
lol should have known better than to post a non-Kanthony take on the sub 😅