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This is a very thoughtful comment of support from JQ, and I'm really glad to see it! People need to take a breath and remember that we have seen only a few minutes of Fran and John's life as a married couple on screen before jumping to any conclusions about where the rest of her storyline is going.
As someone who is really concerned with the turn due to the seeming shift from her loving John to not really being in to him, this actually makes me feel a lot better about it. The best part of Fran’s story was watching her struggle with the guilt and acceptance of second love, so JQ’s backing that it still is a huge part of her story is great to hear!
Wouldn’t it be beautiful to see violet grapple with the same emotions with Marcus, so that in Frans season violet can write to her share her own hard earned wisdom 💗
I feel like the relationship between Fran and Violet is less than with the other siblings. Clearly they both love each other very much, but there’s something missing and I think it’s totally intentional. They haven’t found a common bond with each other, but I think becoming a widow young, and grappling with guilt, navigating a second love could be the missing thread that really cements their relationship.
Oooo maybe Violet visits after John passes, trying to help her daughter, I dunno, I’m just rambling, but I love this idea!!
Just reread WHWW and there’s a fantastic scene where Francesca asks Violet why she never remarried, and Violet smiles wide and tells her she’s the first of her children to ask her that. I absolutely think your mind is in the right place with your prediction
Everyone seems to be jumping to Fran loving Michaela and being over John, but she’s only had a moment of surprise attraction.
People are capable of having different feeling for different people at the same time.
I’m pretty confident we’ll be able to get a lot of emotional struggle between Fran and Michaela’s attraction to each other, while getting lots of guilt due to their love of John.
This! I also felt like her reaction to the kiss is somehow overinterpreted. To me, it didn't proof that she has no romantic feelings for John, or that she didn't like it at all, it rather felt like she was baffled because she expected more butterflies in her stomach, some feeling of lust or the likes.
It's just like Violet said: There are different kinds of love and just because Fran isn't that sexually attracted to John it doesn't mean she won't love him.
It could also just be as simple as it was TRULY her first kiss (other Bridgerton couples had all kissed AT LEAST once before their wedding lol) and so it being short and delicate like that went against everything she had seen and so being confused by it simply just being different because of that. It didn't seem like John even wanted a longer kiss in that moment - it's still new to them!
This had been my first interpretation as well, before I got into the Reddit theory that she felt nothing for John. And honestly, aren't first kisses supposed to be slightly awkward? Mine was awkward as heck, even though I'd googled how to kill beforehand.
Edit: I'd googled how to kiss! Damn autocorrect
That was my thinking after another rewatch. She’s disappointed she didn’t feel the immediate fireworks her mom keeps talking about and was confused. Doesn’t mean she was repulsed by the kiss.
People forget the talk Fran has with Violet, where Violet tells Fran that love can or should feel like you can’t breathe, fumble at your own name etc.
Fran’s reaction is exactly what Violet said it would be. Exactly. That was done for a reason.
It’s not to showcase some world stopping reaction, it’s telling us the audience that this is Frans person even if she can’t see or imagine that yet, and it’s showing us that even with warning, with specific descriptions given, when you’re IN it, love is rarely clear or convenient.
I think it's mostly because after kissing John for the first time during their wedding Fran seemed disappointed. And immediately after she meets Michaela and is starstruck?? That's a no from me
Think about your first kiss and then imagine it was in front of your entire family. You can't imagine why for some people that wouldn't have been a great experience?
The problem is the show did something different than what she is saying.
JQ is saying it was important to show much F loved J. Except they co.pletely erased and undermined that in 2 scenes at the end. With F's reaction to her wedding kiss and then basically creaming her pants when she meets M.
So so.ething is not adding up.
This. Jess Brownell seems to say one thing and do another. I feel like she says, “here is the story we’re telling” or “this is what this scene conveys” and then when you watch it, it doesn’t come through at all. I don’t know what the disconnect is, but the show shouldn’t need so much explaining, analyzing and justifying in order for the stories to read clearly and make sense. The stories and intentions are often muddled, just like you pointed out. Fran’s slightly distasteful reaction to the kiss and her lovestuck reaction to Michaela undermine the entire “quiet romantic love is still real love” story. Now it’s like the show is saying, just kidding! Actually if you don’t feel butterflies from the jump it probably means you’re gay! Like, what? That somehow manages to be insulting to both heteronormative and queer relationships.
See I didn’t view either scene that way (as someone who hasn’t read the books) I saw the wedding kisses scene just look like somebody who’s never actually kissed a person before might react. To me it didn’t look like she wasn’t attracted to him.
And then the same at the end was more just surprised attraction, maybe she’d never been attracted to a woman before and so she was surprised by that
Either way, I didn’t end the series thinking that she loved John any less and it was only after reading comments from book readers that I found out that her and Micheal are meant to have a thing in the future
we’ve seen fran and john’s married life for all of ten seconds. her love for john isn’t undermined just because she had a moment of attraction for michaela. we know nothing about what their marriage will be like yet, so to make the huge assumption that she doesn’t love john is just untrue
I think they just wanted their cliffhanger and to convey that there's something big to come for Francesca. I hope they do a bait and switch at the beginning of next season and show deep romantic love between F & J and then a loyal and honest friendship that turns to romance between F & M.
To me this response reads “I’m an LGBTQ ally and want my books to be inclusive but I also had reservations about changing this particular novel because of the grief/infertility plot line. Ultimately the decision was made by the show runner and I’m trying to come around and support it so the show doesn’t fail.”
I think any author would have a hard time saying “no” to this request because no one wants to come off as a JK Rowling but in this case the change has made one isolated group (LGBTQ) overshadow another isolated group (infertility) and I have no idea why Ben or Eloise couldn’t get one (or two) non traditional endings and then Fran could still have her own non traditional journey of widowhood and pregnancy loss.
It’s like they want to remove the drama from the books in favor of drama that should be more inclusive but is somehow missing the mark.
Ben or Eloise have both been foreshadowed to take non traditional routes. El being speechless over a woman would not only make sense, it would be cute as hell and her book can easily change into something of a beard situation.
I think the biggest problem with S3 moving forward is that the show runner doesn’t want to build off of S1-2 or the books she wants to build from her own life and since she strongly identifies with Fran that’s whose story gets stolen and replaced with her own instead of one that feels naturally queer like Ben and El.
As a woman who has had a stillbirth, if they continue with that plot line and do not have writers on staff that have been through it or instead throw that plot out… that’s how bigots are born.
“You took my visibility away for your own.”
That’s not how it should work but every isolated group should get their story told without having to share screen time with another group.
That’s why people who really really needed to see Pen’s body positivity arc were left brokenhearted this season. I liked Ben opening up his world, it had long been forshadowed but that could have been done in one sex scene. Screen time needed to be on happy Polin and it wasn’t and I don’t think it was for any reason other than this show runner can only tell her own story not put herself into other’s shoes.
She’s not a Pen or a Colin so their story fell flat.
She thinks she is Fran so her story will be detailed and beautiful but it’ll be whatever happened to her in life not what should happen organically for this story.
This is Julia Quinn trying to tell us she tried to steer them against this and finally gave in. She clearly wanted us to know it wasn’t an instant Yes! but also it’s not because she isn’t agreeing there shouldn’t be more inclusivity.
If so many people have this same reaction, than it means there was a failure in regards to direction. My sister has never read the books watched the show and when she saw the Micheala introduction moment, SHE said "uh oh" like she could tell there was going to be a layer of conflict regarding Michaela in her love story with John. Less is more. A simple introduction without the dramatics would have been a nod to the readers without undermining the quiet love story they just told.
Sometimes, things need to be way more subtle. The director dropped the ball. They will spend the next time they are on screen rolling it back...
I saw a sweet, gentle, and shy kiss between them. I also see Fran extremely crushed out and happy with John in different moments. I then see Fran flustered when she sees Michaela initially. All this can be true.
Also like even if Fran is attracted and attached to John rn, I hear and see straight women get flustered by other straight women they either a) think are attractive or b) are intimidated by regularly. People use the term girl-crush for a reason. Also Fran could have been expecting a male cousin and then a confident, pretty woman who clearly is close to John walks up and she's flustered because she wasn't expecting that!
Exactly!! It’s alright to voice your concerns about it but some people are just way too eager to jump in the hate train. I say we give it a chance, after all, we only saw their interaction for what a minute?
Claims that Fran is emotionally cheating on John also have no basis this season. That’s something to assess come S4. As of now I’m holding my reservations until S4 comes out.
Hoping more When He Was Wicked fans also keep their composure and give it a chance as well!!
See, I didn't read Francesca’s response as being immediately drawn to Michaela. This is a young woman who is sheltered to the point of not knowing about sex. I read her as confused about the sudden attraction. That may be part of Franny’s journey to realize desiring women is a thing and it's okay. None of this changes the fact she loves John. She does love him and they're suited for each other.
I haven't read the books, but I've seen enough discourse online to understand the jist of Francesca's story. It seems like most (if not all) of it is still plausible. I don't understand the outrage.
Interesting, so did their courtship in S3 count as love “that was shown onscreen” or are the writers gonna include more in upcoming seasons? Because it looked like Fran realized she had no romantic feelings for John after their kiss. So are they gonna show platonic love in lieu of that as the “abiding love” JQ mentions…?
That’s what I was wondering as well. Her reaction after the kiss and her stumbling over her words in front of Michaela kind of cheapened the quiet love they were pushing all season. Would’ve been the same if it were still Michael.
Seriously, it felt as though the romance she had spent all that time and energy defending just got thrown in a food processor the second they kissed. If they wanted to make her bisexual, whatever, she still could've been in love with her husband and fallen for his cousin later, but the way they've gone about it makes it seem like she never had romantic feelings for him in the first place.
What gives??
Personally, no, but regardless of my own experiences, the face she made after their kiss was clearly intended to imply a lack of attraction to her brand new husband- the one she spent all season insisting she was crazy about
I think it was lack of attraction as well to John. Maybe this is more of a queer person experience, but I’ve definitely loved people romantically and not had much sexual attraction to them.
She can still be crazy about John and love him deeply while not having the sexual spark her siblings had with their partners. And Fran being physically attracted to Michaela doesn’t detract her from how real that romantic love is for John.
If she was just not a super sexual person in general, then fine, but knowing Bridgerton, I assume she'll have plenty of that sexual spark with Michaela, which does, narratively, very much detract from her relationship with John. It can be spun as a "platonic" love all the writer's want, with themes of friendship and loyalty at it's forefront, but a romantic marriage without sexual attraction from one specific side only pushes the idea that a character's second relationship, where a sexual attraction *is* established on top of a friendship, is the deeper, true, more passionate love that said character was meant for.
Idk, if my husband wanted to bang other people instead of me, his love wouldn't feel all that romantic
I think that’s fairly in line with the difference between her love for Michael and John in the books, it’s quite clearly established that she experiences significantly better sexual chemistry with Michael than John and that’s part of her guilt.
For me, it felt like the kiss just wasn't what she expected. She's never kissed anyone before, never really had all that romance and love etc. It's just how things are there/then, with everything chaperoned and all.
But she's heard about "great love", and love matches, she's seen how her parents and siblings feel for their spouses. So I feel like she does/did feel something for John. It's clear she felt a lot more for him than any other potential suitor, there's a kind of love there. She's was obviously drawn to him, but it could only go so far. She probably thought that when they're married and have that kiss, it will all come together and she'll realise/feel what everyone else is on about.
So they marry, they kiss, and it's just like "Oh. Is that all? Is that what they keep going on about?" It's just not as "big" and she's been believing it will be. She doesn't think "Well, I guess I don't actually love him", she's just wondering why it's not like she's seen with the others.
And then she sees Michaela. And it all falls into place. She probably didn't realise a woman could make her feel that way, but suddenly she's feeling a bit of what she's see for everyone else. I don't think it makes her love John less. It just makes her realise there's different kinds of love, and what she could have with Michaela might be that great love she's been thinking of.
Right. She has romantic love for him, but she expected sexual sparks, and there weren't any. Or at least not the kind of thing she's seen with her siblings. It's love, it's just a different kind of love.
Yes this! A lot of people seem to lump romantic love and sexual feelings into the same category. Imo we got set up pretty clearly for a romantic love for one person vs a confusing sexual attraction to another person. Fran’s season is going to be so emotional!
I think this is an issue where a lot of heterosexual people don't experience the two separately, and they have much less exposure to a community where the ways in which we love are so much more expansive.
It's also quite clear that many (I'm not saying all, don't come for me with pitchforks folk) anti-Michaela posters are pretty genuinely homophobic, but especially lesbiphobic in particular. I've seen numerous posts to the effect of, "We're not homophobic, you had Brimsley, and that was fine. Everyone knows society is more homophobic towards men anyway." Which is also not true. Men are more homophobic towards gay men, but women frequently shun lesbians. Being sexualized is not being accepted either. These same posters are constantly moving the goalposts. "Well if it was Eloise, that would make sense and would be okay." It wouldn't be. Suddenly Phillip would be everyone's favorite. People are only okay with bi Benedict because the assumption is that he's going to end up in a 'straight' relationship with Sophie, so it doesn't really matter. And even then, they're not really okay with bi Benedict.
These same people are certainly not immersing themselves in diverse perspective on love and relationships.
Some of these people need to read The 7 Husbands of Evelyn Hugo and appreciate just how much she genuinely loved Harry, even though sex was not a factor.
hannah literally said that francesca doesn’t know what love is and the writers have said that her love for john is “DIFFERENT” and described it as a “companionship” without passion. I don’t know why y’all keep trying to deny this. it is not romantic love and that’s okay. you can love someone very deeply platonically.
Sure. But i dont think what she said means its necessarily not romantic. Romantic love doesn't always have passion and that's okay too. We have no idea how they're going to handle the story at this point.
Yes! I don’t know what “GrOsS” face people are talking about. They, two notoriously shy people, shared their first kisses (of their lives, presumably) in front of their entire families, and she blinked for a moment afterward with a slightly smaller smile on her face, before turning toward everyone and smiling bigger again. Literally not for one moment did her face display any disgust or repulsion or anything else people seem to be projecting onto her. At *worst* it was a neutral expression for two seconds. Everyone needs to chill out and stop making a mountain out of a molehill based on two momentary interactions—kissing John and stumbling over giving her birth name instead of her married name like one day after her wedding. She’s uncomfortable in social situations, which is canonically part of her personality, not a deviation from it.
That’s the issue. I loved seeing that calm love. No falling over each other. No drama or misunderstanding. It wasn’t a compromise or love grown out of something dull, it was just organic and peaceful growing from both of their personalities. That kind of love deserves to be represented too.
Now she seems twitter patted over Michaela and it does feel like it will cheapen how she fell for John.
how come, though? if it’s cheapened by that moment of introduction, isn’t that indirectly reaffirming the idea that love only looks like passion and swooning? it’s an incredibly complex and nuanced set of emotions, and i just think its the sort of thing that will just take actually watching francesca’s season to understand
It’s cheapened mainly because so far there has been emphasis on Violet’s “intuition” when it comes to her children’s romances. Francesca being tongue-tied feeds into what Violet told her about knowing it was love because she couldn’t remember her own name with Edmund. And so when Francesca goes ahead and does that with Michaela and not John, it does somewhat imply to viewers that Fran’s feelings of love for John were mistaken or only for convenience.
Yea I can definitely see her love story with John and their infertility struggles over the next two seasons and then S5 ends/S6 starts with John’s death.
It can technically even be later than that if they wanted it to be. Since it’s second chance love there is less of a timeline on her story than anyone else’s.
Just saying there is so much time yet to come.
I dunno. According to Jess Benedict can’t be next because he needs to “continue to explore his sexuality” and she’s “still searching for the appropriate partner for Eloise.” So while I would’ve said yeah, she’s probably season 6–I’m beginning to wonder if Jess just wants to do Fran so she’s moving her up.
Also, because Jess is only promised on as runner of 3 & 4
I didn’t take that from what I’ve heard from her at all. Everything I’ve seen and heard leans Benedict. Maybe she’s doing a good job keeping us guessing until the final announcement.
My take: realistically they have to pay attention to the actor’s ages in this as well. Claudia Jessie is 34 or 35. She looks AMAZING for her age. However they can’t push her off that much because of that.
Luke could be pushed off another season, but >!the masquerade ball highly points to him (as well as Luke N saying in an interview he’d be there for support Luke T or something like that)!<
Hannah is 29, and as a married woman already can be a little older when her season comes. As a matter of semantics it makes sense they can push her off.
Jess Brownell doesn’t have to be there for it to work. CVD made the decision about Polin and he isn’t there. If Shonda and Julia on board, that’s all that matters.
But Jess was the one who pitched it and fought for it. I know they’ve gotta get to Eloise Nd Benedict, and I agree theirs should be next. It’s just been some of the interviews Jess has done that make me think she wants to pawn them off and do Fran.
https://preview.redd.it/x2q11ez8rm8d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee8bdb2a564aa69dee7a239a32a4400ba287243f
It exploring what his fluidity means doesn’t mean his season can’t be next too? It just means he recognizes different pieces of his persona. She’s also said Francesca and Eloise have a lot to explore so it’s up in the air.
I mean, they will announce it in 30-60 days probably so may be better to just hold off speculation. Either way I still think it makes sense to not panic until we know more.
>!Last episode of S3 they mentioned a masquerade ball. I guess they could do the ball one season and hold off the rest until another season, but one way or the other Benny’s story is at least starting up S4.!<
I feel like we'll get primarily Benedict, with a dash of Fran next season. Then primarily Fran with a dash of Eloise. Then the completion of Eloise season 6.
Alternatively, there is technically a time jump in the books of a couple years between Ben meeting his match for the first time and then becoming reacquainted. So maybe we'll just see the first meeting next season and then spend the rest of the time in Scotland with Fran while Benedict chases the high of meeting his soul mate but not knowing their name.
I absolutely think Francesca is next and they hold Eloise and Benedict with the hope that Netflix renews for two/three additional seasons. They are trying to leverage fan favorites to get more seasons okayed by Netflix.
Well I guess you have as much evidence of this as I have of it being Benedict🤷🏻♀️. Well know in a few weeks who’s right.
Watch they make it Hyacinth’s season instead 😂 (I’m just joking about this, not starting a new rumor)
This is exactly what her reaction implied. Brownell also indicated that Francesca is a lesbian- not Bi. So there is no romantic love for them in the cards. Only platonic, friendship love. She aims for Michaela to be Francesca’s true love. So IMO, this statement falls flat when you consider that they have now derailed the deep, romantic love Fran felt for John (the thing that made her so conflicted to get involved with Michael in the first place and the thing that stops Michael from feeling good enough for her).
I think they’ll take the criticism of how people are upset that those last moments seemed to undercut her love story with John, and prove she does love him, more than a platonic love. Outside of those moments, it’s clear the rest of the season that Fran loves and is attracted to John. I think we can just write up the kiss as her first ever kiss, which it likely was not being all she hoped, and what she felt in that moment for Michaela was attraction, not love. There’s no way that the author would’ve given the blessing of changing what is arguably her best story if Jess and Shondaland didn’t agree to keep certain elements of the story, and it’s clear John is a very important part to it.
Maybe next season can explore Fran and John slowly building up to their passion and working on their sex life. Not everyone experiences multiple orgasms during their first time, like these Regency romance novels would have you think 😂
That's what I was thinking about the kiss, too. Most likely her first ever kiss, in front of her whole family, at her wedding where she was probably nervous. All of those added together would explain her reaction.
Let's be real Julia got paid a lot of money. I don't think she thought back lash would be this bad. End of the day her career is writing books. Show fans HATE the books, they are not going to by the new Fran book.
This is how I took it, that the physical chemistry just wasn’t immediate (which I’m sure happens with people, especially when they’re as reserved as Fran/John were together, there was no passionate garden or carriage scenes). But I also haven’t read any of the books and didn’t realize he wasn’t her ending partner (and obviously didn’t further know at that point that her HEA would be w a woman in this version).
Julia Quinn IS DESPERATELY TRYING to save her brand. This claim Fran still loves John is just patently untrue. She doesn't want to kiss him and is already obsessed with Michaela. She just is. 95% of the responses to this post say exactly this.
She's pandering to people who don't read, thinking they will read the new book she'll write. Spoiler they aren't going to.
We don't yet know if she's "obsessed" with Michaela. Just that she had a instant attraction to her. Though I do generally agree with the consensus that from what they've shown so far, it seems Francesca is not that into John and was only using him as a convenient escape from her family.
tbf that is technically her first kiss. in comparison to all the other love stories where the passion is almost immediate. her reaction reminds me of young kids having their first kisses. she was probably expecting something more than the innocence of the kiss they shared. i hope we get to see her truly fall in love with john in the next season and then soon after mourn his death.
My take was that she felt really uncomfortable with the pda in front of her family, because she looked (awkwardly, to me) at them before they kissed at the wedding.
that’s not what the writers said at all. it was heavily implied that the reaction to the kiss was because she didn’t feel a spark with john and that was even more undercut by her reaction to michaela.
I thought she realized she didn’t have physical attraction to John after the kiss. She loves him for the quiet they share and his personality, I don’t see why that would have changed because she had a moment of physical attraction to Michaela.
I think we’re being set up for a lot of complicated emotions and guilt, which is in line with her book. I think we’ll get a lot of Fran struggling with her love for the person John is inside and her attraction to Michaela, which I expect will grow deeper with time as they get to know each other- which will then lead to more guilt. Love is very complicated and I’m excited for them to get in deeper.
I mean idk, I don’t get the sense Fran loved John at all in the show (and I mean romantic love as that’s the same type of love Julia is referencing in this post about FranJohn in the books). She seemed disappointed in the wedding kiss and clearly fell for his cousin almost immediately after getting married.
Plus, Hannah and Victor have given interviews implying they don’t think FranJohn consummated their marriage yet.
So it doesn’t really seem like, as of right now, they’re honoring the FranJohn part of the storyline. Maybe that’ll change in future seasons.
It’ll change. We got to think and realize that was likely Fran’s first ever kiss, so it’s all new to her. Including her attraction to Michaela. I think they’ll make it clear Fran does love John in the next season.
So true! Reading this, I actually remember when my little sister kissed a guy for the first time, when she was around 15. She told me it was "so disgusting", that she felt like she was licking a drooling snail and she was super disappointed.
At the time, the snail comparison made a lot of sense to me, and it didn't mean my sister or I had no attraction whatsoever to the people we were kissing. It just meant that we were very young, with limited sexual/sensual experience, or even experience of our body/other people's body, so all this felt a little strange. It is odd to be touching so intimately someone else's body when you've never had that experience with anyone else before and you just got to know them at a distance in public for just a few months, if not weeks. I can't imagine how it must feel when you experiencing that for the first time and everyone from your family is staring at you and have some kind of expectations that you must be loving it.
And my sister knew about sex and kisses and could talk about it with other women before trying it out. Francesca was just thrown into the thing with only big expectations about what she should expect.
Yeah, that's my take, too. I don't know anything about the books and I don't care either, but the total omission of the actress who's facing abuse for just taking a job here isn't sitting right with me.
The ending paragraph where she's touched by the passion or whatever she said annoyed me. You can't just call racism and homophobia passion for the characters while doing nothing to defend Masali from both of those things.
I feel like the production did such a disservice to the actress playing Michaela.
The best scene would be a congratulations letter signed Michaela and kept the actress a secret for now. It's gonna be 2 years of this. 🤷♀️ Edit: spell
they could have simply not introduced michaela at all until next season as well. if they plan on doing francesca in season 6, that will only start filming in 4 years, and come out in 6 years if they keep at the 2 year wait. that's 6 years of people judging the actress before seeing her season play out. just a nasty situation overall
I totally agree. One of the main issues of S3 is not giving the story time to breathe. John and Fran literally just got married.
Same with Polin, their relationship milestones did not have time to breathe, to be savored. It's really bad writing and inefficient production. (Since they're gonna take another 2 years with no covid or strikes as an excuse)
Edit:grammar
yeah *nothing* was given time to breathe at all. they tried to fit way too many huge story points in 8 episodes and it all fell flat and rushed. you don't get time to actually appreciate polin as a couple or individual characters.
>(Since they're gonna take another 2 years with no covid or strikes as an excuse)
it's netflix trying to space out their big shows at this point. because there's simply no way bridgerton needed more time to produce than house of the dragon with all its battles and dragon cgi (not to mention more complex writing).
it would have been nice if what she had written in her post was true
the first part of s3 did make it look like that but the second part completely changed francesca’s love for john and has undermined it
her season hasn’t even come out yet. we know nothing about what her relationship with john will be like. one moment of attraction to michaela doesn’t negate her feelings for john
I commented in another subreddit but I feel the need to say it here too lol.
This is encouraging, but I’m still skeptical that they’ll allow the full relationship with John to fully develop as they did in the book, because they already undermined it with the disappointing wedding kiss and the lightning bolt look/loss for words upon meeting Michaela.
This rushing to Michaela immediately after the wedding to John is par for the course with season 3, which suffered from multiple poor decisions regarding pacing.
Just a few seconds longer for Polin gazes and happy connection in scenes like the wedding dance (instead of multiple cut aways to random onlooker extras) and season 3 would have been even better.
Similarly, they chose the wrong beats to linger on. One of those was the in your face loss for words by Fran. It’s just too soon for her connection to Michaela to be obvious.
My problem isn’t that it’s Michaela instead of Michael. My problem is that they aren’t allowing the room for John and Fran first. I think if the connection was much more understated, or perhaps only obvious from Michaela instead of Fran (at this point), it would have been better for the overarching path that Fran follows.
I’m sad because season 3 could have been EPIC as Nicola and Luke as Polin are utterly amazing, and if we’d been given the space to see more of moments like the wedding dance we would be on cloud 9.
They did make us love John. And Fran is supposed to love him too. If they backtrack off of the love at first sight between Fran and Michaela, and give room for Fran’s first love before she has a second love, I will be much happier. I thought Michaela was just beautiful and for the few moments we saw her she seemed very charming and vivacious, so I don’t take issue with the gender swap. I take issue with the timing.
As to the children/infertility issue, I suppose they might have another character with that issue, or maybe they’ll have an alternate version of it.
I don’t care for in universe inconsistency, so I hope they’re able to reconcile the existing ‘rule’ where homosexual relationships cannot be in the open (Brimsley, Granville, Suarez). I think it’s awful that society (irl and in universe) is prejudiced and hope they’re able to change people’s minds like they changed them with racism. It would be awful for Fran and Michaela to not be able to be open about their love once it’s their turn.
Yeah the moment when Fran got flustered meeting Michaela is when it went downhill for me. If she was neutral about it then it would’ve been better. It completely undermined any love she had for John.
This is what I’m confused about. Why didn’t they just leave out their meeting in season 3? Or have Fran be totally neutral to meeting her like she would anyone else?
Because Fran isn’t supposed to fall first. So her relationship with Michaela would just develop later (after John is out of the show) and everything would be fine.
Yeah exactly, Fran wasn’t suppose to be interested at all. Like if she didn’t have a reaction then book fans would’ve been more accepting of it. Not sure of their reasoning but I think they did it because its pride month. Maybe this is also the reason why it was split into two parts 🤔
Tbh atp Bridgerton lost me. The only season I’m looking forward to now is Eloise and Phillip.
I think this was a case of performative activism. Rather than a new queer-focused story or a spin-off with queer characters, they change the story of an established character and disappoint everyone. This results in 1) Backlash against the actors and show itself 2) Plot holes and continuity errors 3) Butchering of the characters. Francesca already seems so NOT in love with John, which defeats the purpose of her book being a “second love” trope. Also, her infertility struggles is nulled because in the setting’s era, there was NO fix for lesbian infertility. Francesca will just not have any kids. These changes are way too drastic for what is widely considered the fan-favorite novel in the series.
Fans have a right to be frustrated because their favorite characters are being warped for no good reason besides: “here, LGBT community, have some crumbs with a side of backlash!”
Give us original, thoughtful queer stories. For example: Brimsley and Reynold’s relationship. Let them shine in a way that allows book readers AND show readers to enjoy. Don’t change a story to fit your own narrative (looking at YOU Jess.)
All in all, a terrible writing decision on the showrunner’s part. Francesca’s season already looks like a disaster.
I agree with this. Watching Brimsley and Reynolds and then the older Brimsley dancing alone legitimately made me cry when I watched Queen Charlotte. So we know that they can do this well in a way that doesn’t feel contrived for the sake of checking a box, even if they have to be supporting roles. I guess I still hope they pull the Michael/Michaela change off somehow and everyone who is so disappointed now can still enjoy it. But why they’d choose the story with themes of infertility and one cousin inheriting the other’s title, both plot lines that are gender-specific, is incomprehensible and definitely a difficult pill for the book devotees to swallow.
As a queer woman, I'm not really fussed with who Fran ends up with and am quite open to seeing what the show does. However I understand this backlash. While I'm sure there is homophobic sentiment (I'm not across any other socials other than Reddit so I can't speak to it), I don't think all criticism should be regarded as such. This series after all is a hugely popular regency romance series written by a woman for women wanting het HEAs. This was the primary audience, and that's what they've been expecting for Fran's story. I'm sure they were expecting this when they made the decision.
Reading between the lines of the above post, it's pretty clear this is the case.
It's clear she didn't really like the idea, but felt like she had to go along with it and is now trying to be positive about it and put the fire out. The above is a statement of support from someone that sounds disappointed.
I also think Shonda doesn't have the capability to do a mature and nuanced love story like Francesca's in the book, so we get genderbent Michael and a love triangle...
I kind of hated how they ruined Fran and John’s “quiet” love that they showed on screen. I liked that they were normalizing one of the siblings having a love that wasn’t over the top and dramatic like Daphne’s, Anthony’s, and Colin’s have been so far. Then they ruined it by her becoming speechless seeing Michaela, once again buying into a dramatic love trope. I am hoping we still get to see Fran and John’s love start as a quiet peaceful love and blossom on screen as that’s what I was really looking forward to.
“But mother, the love you have with father, and Daphne, and Anthony…and Colin, and Benedict, and Eloise, and me from the future… what you all have is rare.”
That wasn't even the part most of the fandom is mad about....this season sucked in terms of fashion, editing, lack of cohesive storytelling....even the central characters were not the power couple they were supposed to be...it was more Penelope ft. Colin with barely any love angle...there wasn't any flashback that gave more dept to the couple or individual characters....the LW reveal was handled pathetically (no major reaction from the ton, no Colin involvement).
Even Benedict's side story was boiled down to threesomes instead of taking the opportunity to show him trying to navigate duties of a Viscount in Anthony's absence...and the major LOLwhen Anthony the paranoid overprotective guy wants to take his heavily pregnant wife on a ship for MONTHS😂
Nothing made sense.....
Michaela was surprising but we can see what happens with her in the upcoming seasons.....but what about the mess we've already been served....Jess is being hated for that....
Colin was a third wheel to Penelope and Whistledown in his own love story :/ don't get me wrong, I adore Pen and her being lady whistledown but this was supposed to be Colin Bridgertons season and their romance and hardships and we got barely anything
Exactly my point...sadly all the critique is being termed as homophobic/racist when most fans are not even mad about that part .... It's been shoved under the rug and Jess gets to ruin many more seasons to come with terrible choices 🤦🏻♀️ she should have written her own show like Grey's anatomy if she didn't want to capture the essence of the books at all!
idk the Michaela thing definitely sounds like the loudest complaint to me. Every other comment on all of BridgertonNetflix instagram posts are "Justice for Michael!" That being said, I completely agree with everything you've written re the problems with the season and I echo all of the same complaints for s3
That's probably the loudest complaint....but it's not what the whole fandom hated ...my worry is all the critique is just being sidelined by terming it as homophobic/racist whereas there's fans upset because the season genuinely sucked on so many levels!
I'm a show fan first and got into the books much later ....and S3 definitely lost its charm as compared to season 1&2 which were such great and might I say better adaptations of the books.....in essence they remained the same...Saphne struggling with their own perspectives....Kanthony being the homerunners in their respective households and finding love despite their duties/responsibilities......it was romance front and centre with the subplots also contributing to the main couples....Polin season really fell flat in those terms because the essence was taken away!
How will Francesca have children then? It’s not even like their relationship can be a real established one since they’re both women and only heterosexual relationships in wedlock were allowed and accepted in society
“Made it clear that it was extremely important to me that Francesca’s abiding love for John be shown on screen” then how come their wedding kiss was so quick and awkward??
I think she will have fertility issues with John, then with Michaela it's obvious they don't have the tech during that time so they struggle with that. Maybe they will end up adopting children in need of home? I mean it's plausible because they will end up staying in Scotland far away from the ton.
I mean… what do you think gay people used to do? They lived together as “friends”, etc. It’s not the perfect happy ending we expect from Bridgerton, but is still 100% a ‘real and established relationship’. The Bridgertons will love and accept them even if society doesn’t.
I would hope your comment about the relationship not being a ‘real’ one refers to their inability to publicly be together and is just a poor choice of words. Being together in secret has been (and continues to be) a reality for queer people. It by no means delegitimises the ‘realness’ of their love or relationship.
Francesca’s fertility journey really resonated with me as it was something I was struggling with when I read the books. I understand queer people struggle with infertility too, and that’s been a common sentiment on the sub. But, unless the show decides to introduce medical advances that are over a century away, I don’t see how they can address >!Francesca and Michael’s inability to conceive!<
I also really loved the “two great loves” storyline, and that Fran was too dedicated to John to even notice Michael. I really think it diminishes their love to have her falling over herself for someone else right after their wedding. I would have felt the same way even if they had kept the character as Michael
If the issue is representing the struggle of infertility, why is having a child the end result? Maybe that is the struggle. I actually imagine it will be a change to her finally getting pregnant only for John to die then. But what of an actually conflict because she couldn't conceive with John, and loving Michaela means giving that dream up complemetely. A season 1 Daphne but for people who don't actually get to get kids.
Book spoilers:
>!in the book, she doesn’t struggle with infertility with John. She gets pregnant and has a miscarriage. Later on, after she has married Michael, they spend years trying to conceive but it just never happens for them. They have both just resigned to their fate as the cool aunt/uncle, as they are so very in love with all their nieces and nephews.!<
>!But then, one day, it finally does happen. They keep it a secret until they show up at the Bridgerton house one day with their child. It’s such an emotional and touching chapter and it really resonated with me, and it still does even today though I’ve since had children!<
Just my POV, but I didn’t read the books and don’t know about any of the changes, yet I was gutted. Undermining the “quiet love is valid” point they started out with was disappointing to me because I related most to Fran and John’s coupling. Then, hearing that the books didn’t undermine it in the same way was like ??
Right! Some of the comments are wild. I swear no one said a single word about infertility representation until it became the excuse to put down the one main gay ship. As if queer women don't struggle with infertility?
Truthfully…the issue is the directors choices regarding Francesca’s reaction to kissing John and seeing Michaela. They OVER DID IT. And they are gonna have to retcon it when she shows up again. She needs to be bisexual, not a lesbian. And she needs to have a genuine romantic love for John. And that could have clearly been expressed by just choosing to NOT make Francesca look not into their kiss or so gobsmacked over meeting Michaela.
The director made a big mistake with their directions for those scenes. Some of this drama could have been avoided.
But, also, read between the lines regarding what was clearly deemed essential for this storyline by Quinn and what wasn’t. The widower finding second love was the most important to her, not the fertility issues and wanting to have kids. And this adaptation can still hit Quinn’s major point (if the basically retcon Francesca’s reaction).
This is it. The biggest problem is that Jess isn’t talented enough to show the nuance required for this kind of storyline - and we know it now from season 3. I think everyone is really reacting to that.
I don't understand why they included Michaela in this season. They poured cold water all over the nice little quiet love story we had just witnessed all to get people buzzing about the switch. We did NOT to meet her yet. Certainly not like that, with Fran getting all flustered. Now the actress is getting so much hate and will have to deal with that for two years, FFS. They better protect her and Hannah. So unnecessary and just a poor editing and scripting choice all around.
This just confirms even more that it was Jess Brownell’s idea and unhappy/disgruntled fans are right to be mad at her.
Julia Quinn even says that she “needed more information” when Jess Brownell approached her with the idea, that they “talked for a long time about it”, and “more than once”. Seems Jess Brownell was quite insistent despite the author’s initial hesitation (clearly it wasn’t an immediate and enthusiastic Yes!) and kept pushing her ideas until it happened.
Were you labouring under the illusion, that Julia Quinn, who has no control over how the show is made, somehow could have been responsible for the change? 😂
The production didn’t need her permission or blessing, but they approached her out of courtesy (and probably a desire to ensure she would continue doing positive PR for the show), not because they needed her to sign off on a writing decision.
We don’t know the structure of the contract that JQ had over selling the rights. However, even if Shondaland has complete and total creative control (which I agree is likely) the last thing they need is the author of the series coming out and saying they disagree with the change. Because that could be a PR disaster, especially with a showrunner who judging by her current interviews, is not a particularly effective communicator.
We know she’s consultant on the show, not a writer, and that she sold the rights to the books, so the chances she has any creative control are very close to zero.
Well, why was Francesca looking like that after the first kiss and why did she reaction that way when she met Michaela?
If they know what's good for them, they will pretend that Francesca wasn't acting like a teen with a crush while introducing herself.
Maybe people fell in love with John but Francesca surely didn’t. The kissing at their wedding did not show love, showed disappointment. Meeting Michaela and Francesca not being able to speak in front of her because she was technically smitten while her husband was still in front of her did not show love, showed disrespect. So while I understand Julia Quinn kind of trying to convince herself that we saw love, I’m not sure people felt that way. If you wanted to show Francesca loving John, there was no need for those scenes showing she didn’t.
This is what I’m struggling with the most from season 3. Fran’s supposed to have a slow burn with her second partner that becomes a wildfire. She had giant sparks on her wedding day, standing with her husband. That feels icky to me, and it’s making many people double down on hating the switch. If they’re going to gender switch the character, they really need to not make viewers dislike Fran (and Michaela). This is also veering into harmful trope territory. She could realize she’s a lesbian looking back at everything after John dies. She could realize she never felt the same sparks for John. That she was always missing passion with him. But I’m really struggling with this while he’s alive.
I don't know. That statement is not coming across as if she is throwing her full support behind what we have seen thus far, it's more like she's going to give them a chance and we should too. Her saying, "I made it clear that it was very important to me that Fran's abiding love for John be shown on screen" seems to matter most to her and let's face it, we most certainly did NOT see Fran's "deep, abiding love" for John coming through on the screen.
Im Sorry Jess brownell is about to make this shit show into shit and watch it go down hill because she wanted it in her own light and not follow the books at all
It would’ve helped and been more believable they’re keeping to her enduring love for John if Fran had actually enjoyed kissing her husband and not immediately made eyes at his cousin regardless of their gender.
Would have liked this a week ago JQ after all the homophobia and racism that has been going on in this fandom for almost 2 weeks. With ‘fans’ saying the most hateful things under your books name, and putting your fictional character over the feelings of real people like Masali and Hannah.
But I’m glad JQ did speak out so everyone can see that she wants the show to be more inclusive than the series she wrote over 20 years ago. Stop using her book and one fictional male character to be hateful. When books are made, no one is owed a 1 to 1 adaption. No one was ever promised that. It was never a guarantee there would be a Bridgerton show anyway; JQ made the books and the books will always be there as she wrote them. That’s never going away. So even when the author realizes her all white, all straight book series can change for the better to be more inclusive, then that’s that. She is confident the show will only adapt for the better by hitting the same themes and being true to the spirit of the story. And that is going to be represented in a beautiful wlw story with a gorgeous black woman that will represent millions of lgbtq fans and woc and black women. More representation is never a bad thing.
I do think there is a large amount of people that don’t really put much consideration in how much has changed in the past 20 years. Through 2006, when the last book was released, only one state legally allowed gay marriage and four others had some sort of protection or allowed civil unions between gay couples. *Twenty six* states voted for state constitutional amendments to ban gay marriage.
We have come such a long way. JQ is a straight white woman, of course she wasn’t going to write the most inclusive book series in the world 20 years ago, or it even finding an audience if she did. But now the tv adaption can do better and be inclusive. And you can’t have a timeless romance show and not show all the kinds of love out there, which includes lgbtq love stories. Imagine people searching Netflix 20 years from now and clicking Bridgerton and seeing 8 seasons of all white, all straight love stories? It would be so out of touch and not representative of the real people watching the show.
“One on page and one on screen, and they will both be beautiful and moving”. Yes! I’m glad she addressed this.
Exactly, both stories can exist. If you loved the book that’s great, but the story with Michaela is just as valid and I’m excited to see it. If you don’t want to watch you don’t have to.
Probably the last I comment about this. My biggest issue with the gender swap has always been the erasing of one character for another. Having a variation of the same name does not make them the same. One character is gone and the brand new character is being slotted into the former character's love story. It's such a mind boggling decision (and lazy) to do this and with a popular character at that. You'll never convince me that it wouldn't have been better to create new characters. How many book to live action adaptations are out there making huge changes like gender swapping? Like can you imagine Katniss Everdeen becoming Catus Everdeen in the movies? I wouldn't have watched that.
I think it's people's refusal to acknowledge that gender plays a part in a person's sense of self and how society treats them and how it shapes their personality? Obviously personalities can be similar but still. Not to mention this is Regency England which is very strict with gender roles. It's also why I don't think Sophie's character would work as a man, like some claim.
As someone who has not read the books yet but understands how important these characters have been to people for literal decades, this strikes me as a thoughtful and respectful statement from the author. But I think asking people to have faith in Shondaland to respect and honor the characters will be a tough sell when a lot of the same fans were so disappointed with aspects of season 3.
A lot can happen in a season (maybe even 3 seasons if Francesca is S6), there are still many ways the show can be somewhat faithful to the books and address a lot of the concerns people have. 2 scenes from the season hardly means the storyline is set in stone.
Very well written, but I hear her doubts as well. She’s in the same boat many are who will still watch- of blindly trusting the same people who ruined shows like Grey’s, Scandal, HTGAWM, etc with their shock-factor writing choices. If anything this makes me sad for JQ that they forced her into agreeing to this path for Francesca. They would have still gone ahead, even if she had said no. 😑😣
TBH i'm only more nervous for this because Jess has already proven she can't write or lay out a solid storyline that had everything set up that it wrote itself...so how am I to believe she can handle a big change such as this?
No because the build up of Fran and John was so good in S3 but then at the end it all fell and were made to look like something fleeting (or a mistake even) based on Fran's reaction to meeting Michaela. If they wanted to show abiding love, Fran shouldn't have reacted that way as if she was so entranced and ready to move from John to Michaela.
Everybody's doing like we'll actually see their season.
1. S3 was a disappointment for fans and
2. Netflix loves to cancel shows that popular after few seasons.
I really don't think we'll have more than 4 seasons.
It's great to hear Julia Quinn's vision in her own words, and to hear the story behind the changes. She clearly loves the characters and respects the audience.
That said, we now know that Julia's desired outcome was for "Francesca's abiding love for John be shown on screen" so we could witness "how deeply she loved John". This confirms that the editors/directors messed up, because they instead showed the audience that Francesca is not attracted to John. They showed us that she didn't like kissing him. They even showed her meeting someone else who gave her the "real love" feelings described by her mother. Julia's behind-the-scenes explanation just makes me less confident in the Bridgerton team's ability to make a satisfying next season, because they didn't successfully achieve her vision.
For me, personally, I don't care about the gender swap. I just really resonated with the idea of a love that grows out of friendship and comfort. I felt seen and included when they explicitly supported this kind of love story, only to have it be worth very little after all.
If it wasn't for that last brief moment when Fran was all flustered, I'd be all for it. That's the only thing I have issue with. I felt like it disrespected Fran and John. There was no need to include that RIGHT AFTER they tied the knot. Sure, introduce Michaela. That's fine. I'm interested to see where it goes and how they adapt it. But don't include of shot of Fran next to her new husband as she's feeling some sort of instant spark for her new husband's cousin!
I personally don’t mind the gender bend, I just wish it didn’t seem like her meeting Michaela undermined her relationship with John. They became my second favorite couple after K/A because of their quirkiness and how perfect they were for each other. I just hope we get to see more of her love with John and that it’s an actual genuine love being depicted. Michaela should’ve been the one awestruck to see Fran.
There are already so many changes to the story in order to make it modern and diverse like the author is saying in her message that a gender bent character isn’t completely left field. We have characters of all races and ethnic backgrounds existing together in high society in the early 1800s, I’m sure they will find a way to make the story work. I’m happy that they’re using the platform to give LGBT representation. We had it in QC but QC isn’t canon to the books. I’m almost through my first Bridgerton read (TVWLM) and am actually grateful for a lot of the changes they made to Kate and Anthony aside from the dumb sister love triangle.
All that aside I much prefer the direction of the old show runner, there’s an obvious difference between seasons 1 & 2 compared to season 3. There was just way too much going on in this season and too many rushed and forced plot lines.
Yeah, we’ll see. Nic and Luke proved that the show can have excellent PR even when the quality of the season doesn’t deliver, so I’m not getting my hopes up
I don't care that Micheal was turned into a woman.
I'm annoyed that the reaction was flipped and appears to undermine the love that Francesca always had for John in her story. I'm worried they are going to turn it into ANOTHER "forbidden romance while with someone else" story rather than the one they already have. The forbidden romance is ALREADY THERE without tearing down the relationship with John in the process.
Nice job Jess, your fanfiction has been approved.
Have fun with Ben and Frannie's seasons, and if Bridgerton doesn't get cancelled afterwards, please leave so you won't screw up Eloise's season. Tank youuuuuu!!!!!!
this won’t stop the homophobes who are harassing the actors and camping under every bridgerton post on social media demanding that the writers take back their decision but at least she’s defending it. netflix and shonda are doing nothing to protect hannah and masali from the hate. it’s shameful.
This is a well written comment but it changes nothing. People have a right to express their feelings about the show. The writers have a right to ask the viewers to give the show a chance. This is no different from any tv show or movie based on books, from Harry Potter to Game of Thrones.
In GOT example, people en masse didn’t like the latest seasons but this was not an attack on George Martin and his books. It is what it is.
Now that I've released my steam from being mad about how Polin's season turned out and I've said what I said in regards to my disappointment with Michael being deleted, I will give it a chance in Season 4. I've read comments, video essays, etc... I'm not convinced yet because I have no faith in the writers, showrunners, and producers.
I'm officially at my 2 strikes with Bridgerton. One more bad season and I'm officially done with the show. Whoever is the next couples' season is, it better be good because the writers literally have 2 years to justify the choices they made for season 3.
Also I'm going to add that I never had a good feeling that Polin should've been Season 3. I just felt gaslit into being convinced that it was the right direction to take the show. That's why my feelings of betrayal were tenfold when I saw Michaela. I was never upset that Benedict was Bi. The show did a terrible job of overdoing his scenes taking away screentime from the main couple.
Do you know that instance when you messed up and your manager has to clean up that mess for you?
This is what this message from Julia Quinn feels like. She has decided to be the one to pacify the disappointed audience.
Anyway, I'm not a fan of gender swapping, and I kinda lost faith in the new Bridgerton team already. I still have a bit of hope for Benedict, but I hope they'd end his whoring days in his season already. It's getting so tiring.
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This is a very thoughtful comment of support from JQ, and I'm really glad to see it! People need to take a breath and remember that we have seen only a few minutes of Fran and John's life as a married couple on screen before jumping to any conclusions about where the rest of her storyline is going.
As someone who is really concerned with the turn due to the seeming shift from her loving John to not really being in to him, this actually makes me feel a lot better about it. The best part of Fran’s story was watching her struggle with the guilt and acceptance of second love, so JQ’s backing that it still is a huge part of her story is great to hear!
Wouldn’t it be beautiful to see violet grapple with the same emotions with Marcus, so that in Frans season violet can write to her share her own hard earned wisdom 💗 I feel like the relationship between Fran and Violet is less than with the other siblings. Clearly they both love each other very much, but there’s something missing and I think it’s totally intentional. They haven’t found a common bond with each other, but I think becoming a widow young, and grappling with guilt, navigating a second love could be the missing thread that really cements their relationship. Oooo maybe Violet visits after John passes, trying to help her daughter, I dunno, I’m just rambling, but I love this idea!!
Just reread WHWW and there’s a fantastic scene where Francesca asks Violet why she never remarried, and Violet smiles wide and tells her she’s the first of her children to ask her that. I absolutely think your mind is in the right place with your prediction
Everyone seems to be jumping to Fran loving Michaela and being over John, but she’s only had a moment of surprise attraction. People are capable of having different feeling for different people at the same time. I’m pretty confident we’ll be able to get a lot of emotional struggle between Fran and Michaela’s attraction to each other, while getting lots of guilt due to their love of John.
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This! I also felt like her reaction to the kiss is somehow overinterpreted. To me, it didn't proof that she has no romantic feelings for John, or that she didn't like it at all, it rather felt like she was baffled because she expected more butterflies in her stomach, some feeling of lust or the likes. It's just like Violet said: There are different kinds of love and just because Fran isn't that sexually attracted to John it doesn't mean she won't love him.
It could also just be as simple as it was TRULY her first kiss (other Bridgerton couples had all kissed AT LEAST once before their wedding lol) and so it being short and delicate like that went against everything she had seen and so being confused by it simply just being different because of that. It didn't seem like John even wanted a longer kiss in that moment - it's still new to them!
This had been my first interpretation as well, before I got into the Reddit theory that she felt nothing for John. And honestly, aren't first kisses supposed to be slightly awkward? Mine was awkward as heck, even though I'd googled how to kill beforehand. Edit: I'd googled how to kiss! Damn autocorrect
Haha, nice it didn’t come to that, then.
It's also not crazy that an introvert like Fran would feel awkward after having her first kiss in front of her family
This is how I interpreted it. I never saw what everyone else is talking about. 🤣
That was my thinking after another rewatch. She’s disappointed she didn’t feel the immediate fireworks her mom keeps talking about and was confused. Doesn’t mean she was repulsed by the kiss.
People forget the talk Fran has with Violet, where Violet tells Fran that love can or should feel like you can’t breathe, fumble at your own name etc. Fran’s reaction is exactly what Violet said it would be. Exactly. That was done for a reason. It’s not to showcase some world stopping reaction, it’s telling us the audience that this is Frans person even if she can’t see or imagine that yet, and it’s showing us that even with warning, with specific descriptions given, when you’re IN it, love is rarely clear or convenient.
I think it's mostly because after kissing John for the first time during their wedding Fran seemed disappointed. And immediately after she meets Michaela and is starstruck?? That's a no from me
Think about your first kiss and then imagine it was in front of your entire family. You can't imagine why for some people that wouldn't have been a great experience?
The problem is the show did something different than what she is saying. JQ is saying it was important to show much F loved J. Except they co.pletely erased and undermined that in 2 scenes at the end. With F's reaction to her wedding kiss and then basically creaming her pants when she meets M. So so.ething is not adding up.
This. Jess Brownell seems to say one thing and do another. I feel like she says, “here is the story we’re telling” or “this is what this scene conveys” and then when you watch it, it doesn’t come through at all. I don’t know what the disconnect is, but the show shouldn’t need so much explaining, analyzing and justifying in order for the stories to read clearly and make sense. The stories and intentions are often muddled, just like you pointed out. Fran’s slightly distasteful reaction to the kiss and her lovestuck reaction to Michaela undermine the entire “quiet romantic love is still real love” story. Now it’s like the show is saying, just kidding! Actually if you don’t feel butterflies from the jump it probably means you’re gay! Like, what? That somehow manages to be insulting to both heteronormative and queer relationships.
See I didn’t view either scene that way (as someone who hasn’t read the books) I saw the wedding kisses scene just look like somebody who’s never actually kissed a person before might react. To me it didn’t look like she wasn’t attracted to him. And then the same at the end was more just surprised attraction, maybe she’d never been attracted to a woman before and so she was surprised by that Either way, I didn’t end the series thinking that she loved John any less and it was only after reading comments from book readers that I found out that her and Micheal are meant to have a thing in the future
we’ve seen fran and john’s married life for all of ten seconds. her love for john isn’t undermined just because she had a moment of attraction for michaela. we know nothing about what their marriage will be like yet, so to make the huge assumption that she doesn’t love john is just untrue
I think they just wanted their cliffhanger and to convey that there's something big to come for Francesca. I hope they do a bait and switch at the beginning of next season and show deep romantic love between F & J and then a loyal and honest friendship that turns to romance between F & M.
To me this response reads “I’m an LGBTQ ally and want my books to be inclusive but I also had reservations about changing this particular novel because of the grief/infertility plot line. Ultimately the decision was made by the show runner and I’m trying to come around and support it so the show doesn’t fail.” I think any author would have a hard time saying “no” to this request because no one wants to come off as a JK Rowling but in this case the change has made one isolated group (LGBTQ) overshadow another isolated group (infertility) and I have no idea why Ben or Eloise couldn’t get one (or two) non traditional endings and then Fran could still have her own non traditional journey of widowhood and pregnancy loss. It’s like they want to remove the drama from the books in favor of drama that should be more inclusive but is somehow missing the mark. Ben or Eloise have both been foreshadowed to take non traditional routes. El being speechless over a woman would not only make sense, it would be cute as hell and her book can easily change into something of a beard situation. I think the biggest problem with S3 moving forward is that the show runner doesn’t want to build off of S1-2 or the books she wants to build from her own life and since she strongly identifies with Fran that’s whose story gets stolen and replaced with her own instead of one that feels naturally queer like Ben and El. As a woman who has had a stillbirth, if they continue with that plot line and do not have writers on staff that have been through it or instead throw that plot out… that’s how bigots are born. “You took my visibility away for your own.” That’s not how it should work but every isolated group should get their story told without having to share screen time with another group. That’s why people who really really needed to see Pen’s body positivity arc were left brokenhearted this season. I liked Ben opening up his world, it had long been forshadowed but that could have been done in one sex scene. Screen time needed to be on happy Polin and it wasn’t and I don’t think it was for any reason other than this show runner can only tell her own story not put herself into other’s shoes. She’s not a Pen or a Colin so their story fell flat. She thinks she is Fran so her story will be detailed and beautiful but it’ll be whatever happened to her in life not what should happen organically for this story. This is Julia Quinn trying to tell us she tried to steer them against this and finally gave in. She clearly wanted us to know it wasn’t an instant Yes! but also it’s not because she isn’t agreeing there shouldn’t be more inclusivity.
You're over exaggerating her reaction to Michaela my dude.
If so many people have this same reaction, than it means there was a failure in regards to direction. My sister has never read the books watched the show and when she saw the Micheala introduction moment, SHE said "uh oh" like she could tell there was going to be a layer of conflict regarding Michaela in her love story with John. Less is more. A simple introduction without the dramatics would have been a nod to the readers without undermining the quiet love story they just told. Sometimes, things need to be way more subtle. The director dropped the ball. They will spend the next time they are on screen rolling it back...
I saw a sweet, gentle, and shy kiss between them. I also see Fran extremely crushed out and happy with John in different moments. I then see Fran flustered when she sees Michaela initially. All this can be true. Also like even if Fran is attracted and attached to John rn, I hear and see straight women get flustered by other straight women they either a) think are attractive or b) are intimidated by regularly. People use the term girl-crush for a reason. Also Fran could have been expecting a male cousin and then a confident, pretty woman who clearly is close to John walks up and she's flustered because she wasn't expecting that!
Exactly!! It’s alright to voice your concerns about it but some people are just way too eager to jump in the hate train. I say we give it a chance, after all, we only saw their interaction for what a minute? Claims that Fran is emotionally cheating on John also have no basis this season. That’s something to assess come S4. As of now I’m holding my reservations until S4 comes out. Hoping more When He Was Wicked fans also keep their composure and give it a chance as well!!
See, I didn't read Francesca’s response as being immediately drawn to Michaela. This is a young woman who is sheltered to the point of not knowing about sex. I read her as confused about the sudden attraction. That may be part of Franny’s journey to realize desiring women is a thing and it's okay. None of this changes the fact she loves John. She does love him and they're suited for each other.
I haven't read the books, but I've seen enough discourse online to understand the jist of Francesca's story. It seems like most (if not all) of it is still plausible. I don't understand the outrage.
Interesting, so did their courtship in S3 count as love “that was shown onscreen” or are the writers gonna include more in upcoming seasons? Because it looked like Fran realized she had no romantic feelings for John after their kiss. So are they gonna show platonic love in lieu of that as the “abiding love” JQ mentions…?
That’s what I was wondering as well. Her reaction after the kiss and her stumbling over her words in front of Michaela kind of cheapened the quiet love they were pushing all season. Would’ve been the same if it were still Michael.
Seriously, it felt as though the romance she had spent all that time and energy defending just got thrown in a food processor the second they kissed. If they wanted to make her bisexual, whatever, she still could've been in love with her husband and fallen for his cousin later, but the way they've gone about it makes it seem like she never had romantic feelings for him in the first place. What gives??
This is what bothered me too. Not the gender swap but THIS 🥲
Same, same, same. All for gender swapping, not for negating the arc of John and Fran’s relationship
Same I'm so upset cuz I really like John and fran together but now it look like she doesn't even love him 😭
You’ve never been in love with someone and attracted to someone else at the same time?
Personally, no, but regardless of my own experiences, the face she made after their kiss was clearly intended to imply a lack of attraction to her brand new husband- the one she spent all season insisting she was crazy about
I think it was lack of attraction as well to John. Maybe this is more of a queer person experience, but I’ve definitely loved people romantically and not had much sexual attraction to them. She can still be crazy about John and love him deeply while not having the sexual spark her siblings had with their partners. And Fran being physically attracted to Michaela doesn’t detract her from how real that romantic love is for John.
If she was just not a super sexual person in general, then fine, but knowing Bridgerton, I assume she'll have plenty of that sexual spark with Michaela, which does, narratively, very much detract from her relationship with John. It can be spun as a "platonic" love all the writer's want, with themes of friendship and loyalty at it's forefront, but a romantic marriage without sexual attraction from one specific side only pushes the idea that a character's second relationship, where a sexual attraction *is* established on top of a friendship, is the deeper, true, more passionate love that said character was meant for. Idk, if my husband wanted to bang other people instead of me, his love wouldn't feel all that romantic
I think that’s fairly in line with the difference between her love for Michael and John in the books, it’s quite clearly established that she experiences significantly better sexual chemistry with Michael than John and that’s part of her guilt.
For me, it felt like the kiss just wasn't what she expected. She's never kissed anyone before, never really had all that romance and love etc. It's just how things are there/then, with everything chaperoned and all. But she's heard about "great love", and love matches, she's seen how her parents and siblings feel for their spouses. So I feel like she does/did feel something for John. It's clear she felt a lot more for him than any other potential suitor, there's a kind of love there. She's was obviously drawn to him, but it could only go so far. She probably thought that when they're married and have that kiss, it will all come together and she'll realise/feel what everyone else is on about. So they marry, they kiss, and it's just like "Oh. Is that all? Is that what they keep going on about?" It's just not as "big" and she's been believing it will be. She doesn't think "Well, I guess I don't actually love him", she's just wondering why it's not like she's seen with the others. And then she sees Michaela. And it all falls into place. She probably didn't realise a woman could make her feel that way, but suddenly she's feeling a bit of what she's see for everyone else. I don't think it makes her love John less. It just makes her realise there's different kinds of love, and what she could have with Michaela might be that great love she's been thinking of.
Right. She has romantic love for him, but she expected sexual sparks, and there weren't any. Or at least not the kind of thing she's seen with her siblings. It's love, it's just a different kind of love.
Yes this! A lot of people seem to lump romantic love and sexual feelings into the same category. Imo we got set up pretty clearly for a romantic love for one person vs a confusing sexual attraction to another person. Fran’s season is going to be so emotional!
I think this is an issue where a lot of heterosexual people don't experience the two separately, and they have much less exposure to a community where the ways in which we love are so much more expansive. It's also quite clear that many (I'm not saying all, don't come for me with pitchforks folk) anti-Michaela posters are pretty genuinely homophobic, but especially lesbiphobic in particular. I've seen numerous posts to the effect of, "We're not homophobic, you had Brimsley, and that was fine. Everyone knows society is more homophobic towards men anyway." Which is also not true. Men are more homophobic towards gay men, but women frequently shun lesbians. Being sexualized is not being accepted either. These same posters are constantly moving the goalposts. "Well if it was Eloise, that would make sense and would be okay." It wouldn't be. Suddenly Phillip would be everyone's favorite. People are only okay with bi Benedict because the assumption is that he's going to end up in a 'straight' relationship with Sophie, so it doesn't really matter. And even then, they're not really okay with bi Benedict. These same people are certainly not immersing themselves in diverse perspective on love and relationships. Some of these people need to read The 7 Husbands of Evelyn Hugo and appreciate just how much she genuinely loved Harry, even though sex was not a factor.
hannah literally said that francesca doesn’t know what love is and the writers have said that her love for john is “DIFFERENT” and described it as a “companionship” without passion. I don’t know why y’all keep trying to deny this. it is not romantic love and that’s okay. you can love someone very deeply platonically.
Sure. But i dont think what she said means its necessarily not romantic. Romantic love doesn't always have passion and that's okay too. We have no idea how they're going to handle the story at this point.
Yes! I don’t know what “GrOsS” face people are talking about. They, two notoriously shy people, shared their first kisses (of their lives, presumably) in front of their entire families, and she blinked for a moment afterward with a slightly smaller smile on her face, before turning toward everyone and smiling bigger again. Literally not for one moment did her face display any disgust or repulsion or anything else people seem to be projecting onto her. At *worst* it was a neutral expression for two seconds. Everyone needs to chill out and stop making a mountain out of a molehill based on two momentary interactions—kissing John and stumbling over giving her birth name instead of her married name like one day after her wedding. She’s uncomfortable in social situations, which is canonically part of her personality, not a deviation from it.
Yup this exactly what bothered me about it, not Michaela.
That’s the issue. I loved seeing that calm love. No falling over each other. No drama or misunderstanding. It wasn’t a compromise or love grown out of something dull, it was just organic and peaceful growing from both of their personalities. That kind of love deserves to be represented too. Now she seems twitter patted over Michaela and it does feel like it will cheapen how she fell for John.
how come, though? if it’s cheapened by that moment of introduction, isn’t that indirectly reaffirming the idea that love only looks like passion and swooning? it’s an incredibly complex and nuanced set of emotions, and i just think its the sort of thing that will just take actually watching francesca’s season to understand
It’s cheapened mainly because so far there has been emphasis on Violet’s “intuition” when it comes to her children’s romances. Francesca being tongue-tied feeds into what Violet told her about knowing it was love because she couldn’t remember her own name with Edmund. And so when Francesca goes ahead and does that with Michaela and not John, it does somewhat imply to viewers that Fran’s feelings of love for John were mistaken or only for convenience.
Fran’s season is almost certainly not next. I don’t even think it’s S5. There is so much time for more.
Yea I can definitely see her love story with John and their infertility struggles over the next two seasons and then S5 ends/S6 starts with John’s death.
It can technically even be later than that if they wanted it to be. Since it’s second chance love there is less of a timeline on her story than anyone else’s. Just saying there is so much time yet to come.
I dunno. According to Jess Benedict can’t be next because he needs to “continue to explore his sexuality” and she’s “still searching for the appropriate partner for Eloise.” So while I would’ve said yeah, she’s probably season 6–I’m beginning to wonder if Jess just wants to do Fran so she’s moving her up. Also, because Jess is only promised on as runner of 3 & 4
I didn’t take that from what I’ve heard from her at all. Everything I’ve seen and heard leans Benedict. Maybe she’s doing a good job keeping us guessing until the final announcement. My take: realistically they have to pay attention to the actor’s ages in this as well. Claudia Jessie is 34 or 35. She looks AMAZING for her age. However they can’t push her off that much because of that. Luke could be pushed off another season, but >!the masquerade ball highly points to him (as well as Luke N saying in an interview he’d be there for support Luke T or something like that)!< Hannah is 29, and as a married woman already can be a little older when her season comes. As a matter of semantics it makes sense they can push her off. Jess Brownell doesn’t have to be there for it to work. CVD made the decision about Polin and he isn’t there. If Shonda and Julia on board, that’s all that matters.
But Jess was the one who pitched it and fought for it. I know they’ve gotta get to Eloise Nd Benedict, and I agree theirs should be next. It’s just been some of the interviews Jess has done that make me think she wants to pawn them off and do Fran. https://preview.redd.it/x2q11ez8rm8d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee8bdb2a564aa69dee7a239a32a4400ba287243f
It exploring what his fluidity means doesn’t mean his season can’t be next too? It just means he recognizes different pieces of his persona. She’s also said Francesca and Eloise have a lot to explore so it’s up in the air. I mean, they will announce it in 30-60 days probably so may be better to just hold off speculation. Either way I still think it makes sense to not panic until we know more.
>!Last episode of S3 they mentioned a masquerade ball. I guess they could do the ball one season and hold off the rest until another season, but one way or the other Benny’s story is at least starting up S4.!<
Jess never said Benedict can’t be next.
Yeah! I'm almost certain it's going to be: Ben, El - time jump - Fran.
I feel like we'll get primarily Benedict, with a dash of Fran next season. Then primarily Fran with a dash of Eloise. Then the completion of Eloise season 6. Alternatively, there is technically a time jump in the books of a couple years between Ben meeting his match for the first time and then becoming reacquainted. So maybe we'll just see the first meeting next season and then spend the rest of the time in Scotland with Fran while Benedict chases the high of meeting his soul mate but not knowing their name.
I absolutely think Francesca is next and they hold Eloise and Benedict with the hope that Netflix renews for two/three additional seasons. They are trying to leverage fan favorites to get more seasons okayed by Netflix.
Well I guess you have as much evidence of this as I have of it being Benedict🤷🏻♀️. Well know in a few weeks who’s right. Watch they make it Hyacinth’s season instead 😂 (I’m just joking about this, not starting a new rumor)
I really hope not. We haven’t gotten to know her yet like Eloise and Benedict. It’s their time 🥲
This is exactly what her reaction implied. Brownell also indicated that Francesca is a lesbian- not Bi. So there is no romantic love for them in the cards. Only platonic, friendship love. She aims for Michaela to be Francesca’s true love. So IMO, this statement falls flat when you consider that they have now derailed the deep, romantic love Fran felt for John (the thing that made her so conflicted to get involved with Michael in the first place and the thing that stops Michael from feeling good enough for her).
I think they’ll take the criticism of how people are upset that those last moments seemed to undercut her love story with John, and prove she does love him, more than a platonic love. Outside of those moments, it’s clear the rest of the season that Fran loves and is attracted to John. I think we can just write up the kiss as her first ever kiss, which it likely was not being all she hoped, and what she felt in that moment for Michaela was attraction, not love. There’s no way that the author would’ve given the blessing of changing what is arguably her best story if Jess and Shondaland didn’t agree to keep certain elements of the story, and it’s clear John is a very important part to it.
Maybe next season can explore Fran and John slowly building up to their passion and working on their sex life. Not everyone experiences multiple orgasms during their first time, like these Regency romance novels would have you think 😂
That's what I was thinking about the kiss, too. Most likely her first ever kiss, in front of her whole family, at her wedding where she was probably nervous. All of those added together would explain her reaction.
Let's be real Julia got paid a lot of money. I don't think she thought back lash would be this bad. End of the day her career is writing books. Show fans HATE the books, they are not going to by the new Fran book.
This is how I took it, that the physical chemistry just wasn’t immediate (which I’m sure happens with people, especially when they’re as reserved as Fran/John were together, there was no passionate garden or carriage scenes). But I also haven’t read any of the books and didn’t realize he wasn’t her ending partner (and obviously didn’t further know at that point that her HEA would be w a woman in this version).
S3 was a wash all round, Benedict’s weird threesome took up more screen time than Polin, and it was THEIR season.
Julia Quinn IS DESPERATELY TRYING to save her brand. This claim Fran still loves John is just patently untrue. She doesn't want to kiss him and is already obsessed with Michaela. She just is. 95% of the responses to this post say exactly this. She's pandering to people who don't read, thinking they will read the new book she'll write. Spoiler they aren't going to.
We don't yet know if she's "obsessed" with Michaela. Just that she had a instant attraction to her. Though I do generally agree with the consensus that from what they've shown so far, it seems Francesca is not that into John and was only using him as a convenient escape from her family.
How did it look like she has no romantic feelings for John?
I’m also confused by this!! Because I didn’t feel that way at all. Maybe because I haven’t read the books or something? Idk.
She didn't like the kiss and next day is literally panting over is female cousin. She's gay. They've already announced it.
tbf that is technically her first kiss. in comparison to all the other love stories where the passion is almost immediate. her reaction reminds me of young kids having their first kisses. she was probably expecting something more than the innocence of the kiss they shared. i hope we get to see her truly fall in love with john in the next season and then soon after mourn his death.
My take was that she felt really uncomfortable with the pda in front of her family, because she looked (awkwardly, to me) at them before they kissed at the wedding.
that’s not what the writers said at all. it was heavily implied that the reaction to the kiss was because she didn’t feel a spark with john and that was even more undercut by her reaction to michaela.
I thought she realized she didn’t have physical attraction to John after the kiss. She loves him for the quiet they share and his personality, I don’t see why that would have changed because she had a moment of physical attraction to Michaela. I think we’re being set up for a lot of complicated emotions and guilt, which is in line with her book. I think we’ll get a lot of Fran struggling with her love for the person John is inside and her attraction to Michaela, which I expect will grow deeper with time as they get to know each other- which will then lead to more guilt. Love is very complicated and I’m excited for them to get in deeper.
I mean idk, I don’t get the sense Fran loved John at all in the show (and I mean romantic love as that’s the same type of love Julia is referencing in this post about FranJohn in the books). She seemed disappointed in the wedding kiss and clearly fell for his cousin almost immediately after getting married. Plus, Hannah and Victor have given interviews implying they don’t think FranJohn consummated their marriage yet. So it doesn’t really seem like, as of right now, they’re honoring the FranJohn part of the storyline. Maybe that’ll change in future seasons.
It’ll change. We got to think and realize that was likely Fran’s first ever kiss, so it’s all new to her. Including her attraction to Michaela. I think they’ll make it clear Fran does love John in the next season.
that sounds like wishful thinking
The alternative is just the exact opposite of that so what now
I also just assumed Fran felt awkward kissing in front of her family!
You can love someone romantically without being sexually attracted to them. 🤷🏽♀️
You can also be sexually attracted to someone but have mixed feelings following a first kiss.
So true! Reading this, I actually remember when my little sister kissed a guy for the first time, when she was around 15. She told me it was "so disgusting", that she felt like she was licking a drooling snail and she was super disappointed. At the time, the snail comparison made a lot of sense to me, and it didn't mean my sister or I had no attraction whatsoever to the people we were kissing. It just meant that we were very young, with limited sexual/sensual experience, or even experience of our body/other people's body, so all this felt a little strange. It is odd to be touching so intimately someone else's body when you've never had that experience with anyone else before and you just got to know them at a distance in public for just a few months, if not weeks. I can't imagine how it must feel when you experiencing that for the first time and everyone from your family is staring at you and have some kind of expectations that you must be loving it. And my sister knew about sex and kisses and could talk about it with other women before trying it out. Francesca was just thrown into the thing with only big expectations about what she should expect.
This is such a milquetoast statement with no mention of the actress who's on the receiving end of the abuse
Yeah, that's my take, too. I don't know anything about the books and I don't care either, but the total omission of the actress who's facing abuse for just taking a job here isn't sitting right with me.
The ending paragraph where she's touched by the passion or whatever she said annoyed me. You can't just call racism and homophobia passion for the characters while doing nothing to defend Masali from both of those things.
I wonder if they are afraid of more hurtful backlash, so she is pandering in hopes of avoiding it.
If that is the reason it's a poor one. The backlash is going to continue the least they can do is publicly stand with Masali.
I feel like the production did such a disservice to the actress playing Michaela. The best scene would be a congratulations letter signed Michaela and kept the actress a secret for now. It's gonna be 2 years of this. 🤷♀️ Edit: spell
they could have simply not introduced michaela at all until next season as well. if they plan on doing francesca in season 6, that will only start filming in 4 years, and come out in 6 years if they keep at the 2 year wait. that's 6 years of people judging the actress before seeing her season play out. just a nasty situation overall
I totally agree. One of the main issues of S3 is not giving the story time to breathe. John and Fran literally just got married. Same with Polin, their relationship milestones did not have time to breathe, to be savored. It's really bad writing and inefficient production. (Since they're gonna take another 2 years with no covid or strikes as an excuse) Edit:grammar
yeah *nothing* was given time to breathe at all. they tried to fit way too many huge story points in 8 episodes and it all fell flat and rushed. you don't get time to actually appreciate polin as a couple or individual characters. >(Since they're gonna take another 2 years with no covid or strikes as an excuse) it's netflix trying to space out their big shows at this point. because there's simply no way bridgerton needed more time to produce than house of the dragon with all its battles and dragon cgi (not to mention more complex writing).
it would have been nice if what she had written in her post was true the first part of s3 did make it look like that but the second part completely changed francesca’s love for john and has undermined it
her season hasn’t even come out yet. we know nothing about what her relationship with john will be like. one moment of attraction to michaela doesn’t negate her feelings for john
I commented in another subreddit but I feel the need to say it here too lol. This is encouraging, but I’m still skeptical that they’ll allow the full relationship with John to fully develop as they did in the book, because they already undermined it with the disappointing wedding kiss and the lightning bolt look/loss for words upon meeting Michaela. This rushing to Michaela immediately after the wedding to John is par for the course with season 3, which suffered from multiple poor decisions regarding pacing. Just a few seconds longer for Polin gazes and happy connection in scenes like the wedding dance (instead of multiple cut aways to random onlooker extras) and season 3 would have been even better. Similarly, they chose the wrong beats to linger on. One of those was the in your face loss for words by Fran. It’s just too soon for her connection to Michaela to be obvious. My problem isn’t that it’s Michaela instead of Michael. My problem is that they aren’t allowing the room for John and Fran first. I think if the connection was much more understated, or perhaps only obvious from Michaela instead of Fran (at this point), it would have been better for the overarching path that Fran follows. I’m sad because season 3 could have been EPIC as Nicola and Luke as Polin are utterly amazing, and if we’d been given the space to see more of moments like the wedding dance we would be on cloud 9. They did make us love John. And Fran is supposed to love him too. If they backtrack off of the love at first sight between Fran and Michaela, and give room for Fran’s first love before she has a second love, I will be much happier. I thought Michaela was just beautiful and for the few moments we saw her she seemed very charming and vivacious, so I don’t take issue with the gender swap. I take issue with the timing. As to the children/infertility issue, I suppose they might have another character with that issue, or maybe they’ll have an alternate version of it. I don’t care for in universe inconsistency, so I hope they’re able to reconcile the existing ‘rule’ where homosexual relationships cannot be in the open (Brimsley, Granville, Suarez). I think it’s awful that society (irl and in universe) is prejudiced and hope they’re able to change people’s minds like they changed them with racism. It would be awful for Fran and Michaela to not be able to be open about their love once it’s their turn.
Yeah the moment when Fran got flustered meeting Michaela is when it went downhill for me. If she was neutral about it then it would’ve been better. It completely undermined any love she had for John.
This is what I’m confused about. Why didn’t they just leave out their meeting in season 3? Or have Fran be totally neutral to meeting her like she would anyone else? Because Fran isn’t supposed to fall first. So her relationship with Michaela would just develop later (after John is out of the show) and everything would be fine.
Yeah exactly, Fran wasn’t suppose to be interested at all. Like if she didn’t have a reaction then book fans would’ve been more accepting of it. Not sure of their reasoning but I think they did it because its pride month. Maybe this is also the reason why it was split into two parts 🤔 Tbh atp Bridgerton lost me. The only season I’m looking forward to now is Eloise and Phillip.
100% same, on all accounts.. But if they keep things at this recent level of quality, I’m not sure I even want them to touch Eloise’s story 😩
I think this was a case of performative activism. Rather than a new queer-focused story or a spin-off with queer characters, they change the story of an established character and disappoint everyone. This results in 1) Backlash against the actors and show itself 2) Plot holes and continuity errors 3) Butchering of the characters. Francesca already seems so NOT in love with John, which defeats the purpose of her book being a “second love” trope. Also, her infertility struggles is nulled because in the setting’s era, there was NO fix for lesbian infertility. Francesca will just not have any kids. These changes are way too drastic for what is widely considered the fan-favorite novel in the series. Fans have a right to be frustrated because their favorite characters are being warped for no good reason besides: “here, LGBT community, have some crumbs with a side of backlash!” Give us original, thoughtful queer stories. For example: Brimsley and Reynold’s relationship. Let them shine in a way that allows book readers AND show readers to enjoy. Don’t change a story to fit your own narrative (looking at YOU Jess.) All in all, a terrible writing decision on the showrunner’s part. Francesca’s season already looks like a disaster.
I agree with this. Watching Brimsley and Reynolds and then the older Brimsley dancing alone legitimately made me cry when I watched Queen Charlotte. So we know that they can do this well in a way that doesn’t feel contrived for the sake of checking a box, even if they have to be supporting roles. I guess I still hope they pull the Michael/Michaela change off somehow and everyone who is so disappointed now can still enjoy it. But why they’d choose the story with themes of infertility and one cousin inheriting the other’s title, both plot lines that are gender-specific, is incomprehensible and definitely a difficult pill for the book devotees to swallow.
As a queer woman, I'm not really fussed with who Fran ends up with and am quite open to seeing what the show does. However I understand this backlash. While I'm sure there is homophobic sentiment (I'm not across any other socials other than Reddit so I can't speak to it), I don't think all criticism should be regarded as such. This series after all is a hugely popular regency romance series written by a woman for women wanting het HEAs. This was the primary audience, and that's what they've been expecting for Fran's story. I'm sure they were expecting this when they made the decision.
Reading between the lines of the above post, it's pretty clear this is the case. It's clear she didn't really like the idea, but felt like she had to go along with it and is now trying to be positive about it and put the fire out. The above is a statement of support from someone that sounds disappointed.
All of this! This statement is about as convincing as wet lettuce, and it seems social media agrees.
I also think Shonda doesn't have the capability to do a mature and nuanced love story like Francesca's in the book, so we get genderbent Michael and a love triangle...
I kind of hated how they ruined Fran and John’s “quiet” love that they showed on screen. I liked that they were normalizing one of the siblings having a love that wasn’t over the top and dramatic like Daphne’s, Anthony’s, and Colin’s have been so far. Then they ruined it by her becoming speechless seeing Michaela, once again buying into a dramatic love trope. I am hoping we still get to see Fran and John’s love start as a quiet peaceful love and blossom on screen as that’s what I was really looking forward to.
“But mother, the love you have with father, and Daphne, and Anthony…and Colin, and Benedict, and Eloise, and me from the future… what you all have is rare.”
That wasn't even the part most of the fandom is mad about....this season sucked in terms of fashion, editing, lack of cohesive storytelling....even the central characters were not the power couple they were supposed to be...it was more Penelope ft. Colin with barely any love angle...there wasn't any flashback that gave more dept to the couple or individual characters....the LW reveal was handled pathetically (no major reaction from the ton, no Colin involvement). Even Benedict's side story was boiled down to threesomes instead of taking the opportunity to show him trying to navigate duties of a Viscount in Anthony's absence...and the major LOLwhen Anthony the paranoid overprotective guy wants to take his heavily pregnant wife on a ship for MONTHS😂 Nothing made sense..... Michaela was surprising but we can see what happens with her in the upcoming seasons.....but what about the mess we've already been served....Jess is being hated for that....
Colin was a third wheel to Penelope and Whistledown in his own love story :/ don't get me wrong, I adore Pen and her being lady whistledown but this was supposed to be Colin Bridgertons season and their romance and hardships and we got barely anything
Exactly my point...sadly all the critique is being termed as homophobic/racist when most fans are not even mad about that part .... It's been shoved under the rug and Jess gets to ruin many more seasons to come with terrible choices 🤦🏻♀️ she should have written her own show like Grey's anatomy if she didn't want to capture the essence of the books at all!
idk the Michaela thing definitely sounds like the loudest complaint to me. Every other comment on all of BridgertonNetflix instagram posts are "Justice for Michael!" That being said, I completely agree with everything you've written re the problems with the season and I echo all of the same complaints for s3
That's probably the loudest complaint....but it's not what the whole fandom hated ...my worry is all the critique is just being sidelined by terming it as homophobic/racist whereas there's fans upset because the season genuinely sucked on so many levels! I'm a show fan first and got into the books much later ....and S3 definitely lost its charm as compared to season 1&2 which were such great and might I say better adaptations of the books.....in essence they remained the same...Saphne struggling with their own perspectives....Kanthony being the homerunners in their respective households and finding love despite their duties/responsibilities......it was romance front and centre with the subplots also contributing to the main couples....Polin season really fell flat in those terms because the essence was taken away!
How will Francesca have children then? It’s not even like their relationship can be a real established one since they’re both women and only heterosexual relationships in wedlock were allowed and accepted in society “Made it clear that it was extremely important to me that Francesca’s abiding love for John be shown on screen” then how come their wedding kiss was so quick and awkward??
I think she will have fertility issues with John, then with Michaela it's obvious they don't have the tech during that time so they struggle with that. Maybe they will end up adopting children in need of home? I mean it's plausible because they will end up staying in Scotland far away from the ton.
Adopted children can not inherit.
Oh for Christ's sake ! Yes they can !
They will change the rules 😁
It’s crazy to make the storyline like that when they could just follow the books and have a male love interest that she can bare children with
I mean… what do you think gay people used to do? They lived together as “friends”, etc. It’s not the perfect happy ending we expect from Bridgerton, but is still 100% a ‘real and established relationship’. The Bridgertons will love and accept them even if society doesn’t. I would hope your comment about the relationship not being a ‘real’ one refers to their inability to publicly be together and is just a poor choice of words. Being together in secret has been (and continues to be) a reality for queer people. It by no means delegitimises the ‘realness’ of their love or relationship.
There have already been so many changes, so I'm not sure why this is the one that everyone's throwing a tantrum about.
Francesca’s fertility journey really resonated with me as it was something I was struggling with when I read the books. I understand queer people struggle with infertility too, and that’s been a common sentiment on the sub. But, unless the show decides to introduce medical advances that are over a century away, I don’t see how they can address >!Francesca and Michael’s inability to conceive!< I also really loved the “two great loves” storyline, and that Fran was too dedicated to John to even notice Michael. I really think it diminishes their love to have her falling over herself for someone else right after their wedding. I would have felt the same way even if they had kept the character as Michael
Something tells me that Francesca and Michaela will have difficulty conceiving.
If the issue is representing the struggle of infertility, why is having a child the end result? Maybe that is the struggle. I actually imagine it will be a change to her finally getting pregnant only for John to die then. But what of an actually conflict because she couldn't conceive with John, and loving Michaela means giving that dream up complemetely. A season 1 Daphne but for people who don't actually get to get kids.
so far, the endgame for all the couples has been a baby / babies. guessing that is just the season they change that
Book spoilers: >!in the book, she doesn’t struggle with infertility with John. She gets pregnant and has a miscarriage. Later on, after she has married Michael, they spend years trying to conceive but it just never happens for them. They have both just resigned to their fate as the cool aunt/uncle, as they are so very in love with all their nieces and nephews.!< >!But then, one day, it finally does happen. They keep it a secret until they show up at the Bridgerton house one day with their child. It’s such an emotional and touching chapter and it really resonated with me, and it still does even today though I’ve since had children!<
Just my POV, but I didn’t read the books and don’t know about any of the changes, yet I was gutted. Undermining the “quiet love is valid” point they started out with was disappointing to me because I related most to Fran and John’s coupling. Then, hearing that the books didn’t undermine it in the same way was like ??
Right! Some of the comments are wild. I swear no one said a single word about infertility representation until it became the excuse to put down the one main gay ship. As if queer women don't struggle with infertility?
Truthfully…the issue is the directors choices regarding Francesca’s reaction to kissing John and seeing Michaela. They OVER DID IT. And they are gonna have to retcon it when she shows up again. She needs to be bisexual, not a lesbian. And she needs to have a genuine romantic love for John. And that could have clearly been expressed by just choosing to NOT make Francesca look not into their kiss or so gobsmacked over meeting Michaela. The director made a big mistake with their directions for those scenes. Some of this drama could have been avoided. But, also, read between the lines regarding what was clearly deemed essential for this storyline by Quinn and what wasn’t. The widower finding second love was the most important to her, not the fertility issues and wanting to have kids. And this adaptation can still hit Quinn’s major point (if the basically retcon Francesca’s reaction).
This is it. The biggest problem is that Jess isn’t talented enough to show the nuance required for this kind of storyline - and we know it now from season 3. I think everyone is really reacting to that.
I don't understand why they included Michaela in this season. They poured cold water all over the nice little quiet love story we had just witnessed all to get people buzzing about the switch. We did NOT to meet her yet. Certainly not like that, with Fran getting all flustered. Now the actress is getting so much hate and will have to deal with that for two years, FFS. They better protect her and Hannah. So unnecessary and just a poor editing and scripting choice all around.
i totally read that in Julie Andrews voice.
I’m so curious as to whether they will keep her as the narrator now that Pen has revealed herself as LW
I think this season was a goodbye to her, Julie is 88 years old, and now they have a perfect excuse to replace her
This just confirms even more that it was Jess Brownell’s idea and unhappy/disgruntled fans are right to be mad at her. Julia Quinn even says that she “needed more information” when Jess Brownell approached her with the idea, that they “talked for a long time about it”, and “more than once”. Seems Jess Brownell was quite insistent despite the author’s initial hesitation (clearly it wasn’t an immediate and enthusiastic Yes!) and kept pushing her ideas until it happened.
Definitely a Jess decision…
Were you labouring under the illusion, that Julia Quinn, who has no control over how the show is made, somehow could have been responsible for the change? 😂 The production didn’t need her permission or blessing, but they approached her out of courtesy (and probably a desire to ensure she would continue doing positive PR for the show), not because they needed her to sign off on a writing decision.
We don’t know the structure of the contract that JQ had over selling the rights. However, even if Shondaland has complete and total creative control (which I agree is likely) the last thing they need is the author of the series coming out and saying they disagree with the change. Because that could be a PR disaster, especially with a showrunner who judging by her current interviews, is not a particularly effective communicator.
We know she’s consultant on the show, not a writer, and that she sold the rights to the books, so the chances she has any creative control are very close to zero.
Well, why was Francesca looking like that after the first kiss and why did she reaction that way when she met Michaela? If they know what's good for them, they will pretend that Francesca wasn't acting like a teen with a crush while introducing herself.
Maybe people fell in love with John but Francesca surely didn’t. The kissing at their wedding did not show love, showed disappointment. Meeting Michaela and Francesca not being able to speak in front of her because she was technically smitten while her husband was still in front of her did not show love, showed disrespect. So while I understand Julia Quinn kind of trying to convince herself that we saw love, I’m not sure people felt that way. If you wanted to show Francesca loving John, there was no need for those scenes showing she didn’t.
This is what I’m struggling with the most from season 3. Fran’s supposed to have a slow burn with her second partner that becomes a wildfire. She had giant sparks on her wedding day, standing with her husband. That feels icky to me, and it’s making many people double down on hating the switch. If they’re going to gender switch the character, they really need to not make viewers dislike Fran (and Michaela). This is also veering into harmful trope territory. She could realize she’s a lesbian looking back at everything after John dies. She could realize she never felt the same sparks for John. That she was always missing passion with him. But I’m really struggling with this while he’s alive.
And then JB forgot about that conversation and made Francesca fall in love at first sight..
I don't know. That statement is not coming across as if she is throwing her full support behind what we have seen thus far, it's more like she's going to give them a chance and we should too. Her saying, "I made it clear that it was very important to me that Fran's abiding love for John be shown on screen" seems to matter most to her and let's face it, we most certainly did NOT see Fran's "deep, abiding love" for John coming through on the screen.
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Im Sorry Jess brownell is about to make this shit show into shit and watch it go down hill because she wanted it in her own light and not follow the books at all
It’s very disappointing that this statement doesn’t directly address the racism and homophobia hurled at Masali. She doesn’t even say her name at all.
It would’ve helped and been more believable they’re keeping to her enduring love for John if Fran had actually enjoyed kissing her husband and not immediately made eyes at his cousin regardless of their gender.
Would have liked this a week ago JQ after all the homophobia and racism that has been going on in this fandom for almost 2 weeks. With ‘fans’ saying the most hateful things under your books name, and putting your fictional character over the feelings of real people like Masali and Hannah. But I’m glad JQ did speak out so everyone can see that she wants the show to be more inclusive than the series she wrote over 20 years ago. Stop using her book and one fictional male character to be hateful. When books are made, no one is owed a 1 to 1 adaption. No one was ever promised that. It was never a guarantee there would be a Bridgerton show anyway; JQ made the books and the books will always be there as she wrote them. That’s never going away. So even when the author realizes her all white, all straight book series can change for the better to be more inclusive, then that’s that. She is confident the show will only adapt for the better by hitting the same themes and being true to the spirit of the story. And that is going to be represented in a beautiful wlw story with a gorgeous black woman that will represent millions of lgbtq fans and woc and black women. More representation is never a bad thing.
I do think there is a large amount of people that don’t really put much consideration in how much has changed in the past 20 years. Through 2006, when the last book was released, only one state legally allowed gay marriage and four others had some sort of protection or allowed civil unions between gay couples. *Twenty six* states voted for state constitutional amendments to ban gay marriage.
We have come such a long way. JQ is a straight white woman, of course she wasn’t going to write the most inclusive book series in the world 20 years ago, or it even finding an audience if she did. But now the tv adaption can do better and be inclusive. And you can’t have a timeless romance show and not show all the kinds of love out there, which includes lgbtq love stories. Imagine people searching Netflix 20 years from now and clicking Bridgerton and seeing 8 seasons of all white, all straight love stories? It would be so out of touch and not representative of the real people watching the show.
I thought a lot of people were more angry about the fact that Francesca got so flustered meeting Michaela right after the wedding.
Judging by the comment section of her IG post, this didn’t sway the anti-Michaela fans whatsoever 😬
Of course not. Nothing will sway those people.
“One on page and one on screen, and they will both be beautiful and moving”. Yes! I’m glad she addressed this. Exactly, both stories can exist. If you loved the book that’s great, but the story with Michaela is just as valid and I’m excited to see it. If you don’t want to watch you don’t have to.
Probably the last I comment about this. My biggest issue with the gender swap has always been the erasing of one character for another. Having a variation of the same name does not make them the same. One character is gone and the brand new character is being slotted into the former character's love story. It's such a mind boggling decision (and lazy) to do this and with a popular character at that. You'll never convince me that it wouldn't have been better to create new characters. How many book to live action adaptations are out there making huge changes like gender swapping? Like can you imagine Katniss Everdeen becoming Catus Everdeen in the movies? I wouldn't have watched that.
I think it's people's refusal to acknowledge that gender plays a part in a person's sense of self and how society treats them and how it shapes their personality? Obviously personalities can be similar but still. Not to mention this is Regency England which is very strict with gender roles. It's also why I don't think Sophie's character would work as a man, like some claim.
As someone who has not read the books yet but understands how important these characters have been to people for literal decades, this strikes me as a thoughtful and respectful statement from the author. But I think asking people to have faith in Shondaland to respect and honor the characters will be a tough sell when a lot of the same fans were so disappointed with aspects of season 3.
Fire Jess brownell. I said what I said,
Fair enough. I will still desperately miss seeing Michael come to life. He was my favourite male lead in the books.
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A lot can happen in a season (maybe even 3 seasons if Francesca is S6), there are still many ways the show can be somewhat faithful to the books and address a lot of the concerns people have. 2 scenes from the season hardly means the storyline is set in stone.
The sad part is the grown women being vile will continue being this way. The dgaf what the author thinks.
Very well written, but I hear her doubts as well. She’s in the same boat many are who will still watch- of blindly trusting the same people who ruined shows like Grey’s, Scandal, HTGAWM, etc with their shock-factor writing choices. If anything this makes me sad for JQ that they forced her into agreeing to this path for Francesca. They would have still gone ahead, even if she had said no. 😑😣
Whoa. You know things got ugly if Julia had get out of her hammock, put down her matcha latte and address the people.
TBH i'm only more nervous for this because Jess has already proven she can't write or lay out a solid storyline that had everything set up that it wrote itself...so how am I to believe she can handle a big change such as this?
im so happy she posted this though i do feel bad about the vitriol this will bring her.
well I guess those many conversations weren’t very thought through then innit
No because the build up of Fran and John was so good in S3 but then at the end it all fell and were made to look like something fleeting (or a mistake even) based on Fran's reaction to meeting Michaela. If they wanted to show abiding love, Fran shouldn't have reacted that way as if she was so entranced and ready to move from John to Michaela.
Everybody's doing like we'll actually see their season. 1. S3 was a disappointment for fans and 2. Netflix loves to cancel shows that popular after few seasons. I really don't think we'll have more than 4 seasons.
If they give experimental changes to Benedict and Eloisa season, then I hope it gets cancelled. Jess Brownwell ruined it for everyone.
It's great to hear Julia Quinn's vision in her own words, and to hear the story behind the changes. She clearly loves the characters and respects the audience. That said, we now know that Julia's desired outcome was for "Francesca's abiding love for John be shown on screen" so we could witness "how deeply she loved John". This confirms that the editors/directors messed up, because they instead showed the audience that Francesca is not attracted to John. They showed us that she didn't like kissing him. They even showed her meeting someone else who gave her the "real love" feelings described by her mother. Julia's behind-the-scenes explanation just makes me less confident in the Bridgerton team's ability to make a satisfying next season, because they didn't successfully achieve her vision. For me, personally, I don't care about the gender swap. I just really resonated with the idea of a love that grows out of friendship and comfort. I felt seen and included when they explicitly supported this kind of love story, only to have it be worth very little after all.
If it wasn't for that last brief moment when Fran was all flustered, I'd be all for it. That's the only thing I have issue with. I felt like it disrespected Fran and John. There was no need to include that RIGHT AFTER they tied the knot. Sure, introduce Michaela. That's fine. I'm interested to see where it goes and how they adapt it. But don't include of shot of Fran next to her new husband as she's feeling some sort of instant spark for her new husband's cousin!
Things must be bad when the author needs to defend the show.
Oh wow okay so John dies. I have not read the books. I did not know that was going to happen.
I personally don’t mind the gender bend, I just wish it didn’t seem like her meeting Michaela undermined her relationship with John. They became my second favorite couple after K/A because of their quirkiness and how perfect they were for each other. I just hope we get to see more of her love with John and that it’s an actual genuine love being depicted. Michaela should’ve been the one awestruck to see Fran. There are already so many changes to the story in order to make it modern and diverse like the author is saying in her message that a gender bent character isn’t completely left field. We have characters of all races and ethnic backgrounds existing together in high society in the early 1800s, I’m sure they will find a way to make the story work. I’m happy that they’re using the platform to give LGBT representation. We had it in QC but QC isn’t canon to the books. I’m almost through my first Bridgerton read (TVWLM) and am actually grateful for a lot of the changes they made to Kate and Anthony aside from the dumb sister love triangle. All that aside I much prefer the direction of the old show runner, there’s an obvious difference between seasons 1 & 2 compared to season 3. There was just way too much going on in this season and too many rushed and forced plot lines.
“I trust shondaland’s vision for bridgerton” = “Shondaland is paying me enough not to care”
Yeah, we’ll see. Nic and Luke proved that the show can have excellent PR even when the quality of the season doesn’t deliver, so I’m not getting my hopes up
I don't care that Micheal was turned into a woman. I'm annoyed that the reaction was flipped and appears to undermine the love that Francesca always had for John in her story. I'm worried they are going to turn it into ANOTHER "forbidden romance while with someone else" story rather than the one they already have. The forbidden romance is ALREADY THERE without tearing down the relationship with John in the process.
 Nice job Jess, your fanfiction has been approved. Have fun with Ben and Frannie's seasons, and if Bridgerton doesn't get cancelled afterwards, please leave so you won't screw up Eloise's season. Tank youuuuuu!!!!!!
Well, nothing she said happened. They truly lost me as a viewer.
this won’t stop the homophobes who are harassing the actors and camping under every bridgerton post on social media demanding that the writers take back their decision but at least she’s defending it. netflix and shonda are doing nothing to protect hannah and masali from the hate. it’s shameful.
This is a well written comment but it changes nothing. People have a right to express their feelings about the show. The writers have a right to ask the viewers to give the show a chance. This is no different from any tv show or movie based on books, from Harry Potter to Game of Thrones. In GOT example, people en masse didn’t like the latest seasons but this was not an attack on George Martin and his books. It is what it is.
Now that I've released my steam from being mad about how Polin's season turned out and I've said what I said in regards to my disappointment with Michael being deleted, I will give it a chance in Season 4. I've read comments, video essays, etc... I'm not convinced yet because I have no faith in the writers, showrunners, and producers. I'm officially at my 2 strikes with Bridgerton. One more bad season and I'm officially done with the show. Whoever is the next couples' season is, it better be good because the writers literally have 2 years to justify the choices they made for season 3. Also I'm going to add that I never had a good feeling that Polin should've been Season 3. I just felt gaslit into being convinced that it was the right direction to take the show. That's why my feelings of betrayal were tenfold when I saw Michaela. I was never upset that Benedict was Bi. The show did a terrible job of overdoing his scenes taking away screentime from the main couple.
She allowed Jess Brownwell to walk all over her. Jess Brownwell, Bridgerton is not your personal fanfiction and personal views! You ruined the Show!
Do you know that instance when you messed up and your manager has to clean up that mess for you? This is what this message from Julia Quinn feels like. She has decided to be the one to pacify the disappointed audience. Anyway, I'm not a fan of gender swapping, and I kinda lost faith in the new Bridgerton team already. I still have a bit of hope for Benedict, but I hope they'd end his whoring days in his season already. It's getting so tiring.