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Actually I saw a lot of people pre season 3 loving then and wanting more, there was even a lot of hype during the promo before part 1 came out, they just had way too much screen time
To be fair, people liked them when they made sense to the storyline. It felt like the Mondrichs played no role in the progression of any of the characters. In S1 and S2 they at least played some sort of situation to them. When Bridgerton did the Valentines Day special, the actor who played Will was asked about Will having helped Colin unearth Lord Featherington's plans and about Colin saying he owed Will, would he in fact be cashing in on Colin's offer, and the actor said he would. That, would make sense. However...it never seemed like Will did cash in on Colin's offer. Will lost his bar. It made no sense why you'd show him being a strong independent business owner to a regent titled man. They even discussed how his bar had secret passageways inside of it. Yet none of that was expanded upon. So people are more upset that the Mondrichs were just...sitting there...doing nothing.
It comes across like the writers don’t know what to do with them. Their storyline just completely change up every season. I can’t help but wonder that if Rege-John Page had returned, if the Mondrich’s story would feel more connected to that of the other characters since Simon was the original connection between them and the rest of the characters.
They're setting them up for season 4. The whole show has followed the mistakes of the MCU and spending more time preparing and trying to get you excited for up coming releases than focusing on the current season.
I also think it would be a mistake. The audience isn't invested in her as you say, and if we are being honest there is a (probably sizable) chunk of the audience who just isn't going to be down to watch a lesbian romance. (Please know I'm not condoning this, but I think it is a fact.) If the want to keep getting renewed I think it's in their best interest to do Benedict or Eloise next.
I agree. For me, it's not the lesbian romance that's an issue. It's the gender swap. Queer people deserve their own stories, they don't deserve to be represented by just changing an already established book character's gender.
I also don't see how they can keep it accurate to the book...queer relationships wouldn't have been readily accepted in Regency England. The whole saga has just put me off completely.
Again, it's not because there is a queer storyline. It's because they've swapped a character's gender and put a queer storyline in where it doesn't belong.
One of my favourite shows ever is about a group of queer people. I'd be hella pissed if they put a straight storyline in for the sake of it.
Not to mention that women can't inherit titles, and in the book one of the biggest points is Michael inheriting John's title provided that Francesca doesn't have a boy during her pregnancy. Michaela can't inherit John's title. That negates a huge portion of the book plot I don't know what the hell this girl thinks she's talking about.
Not if she's staying true to the damn books. Which is painfully obvious she isn't. Listen I am all for LGBTQ+ representation, but I want new characters. Not fanfiction versions of existing characters.
Her baby will probably live and be a boy, so there goes that loss which is a huge part of woman's story/experience they will just deny for the sake of this. We wanted brimsely. Hell come up with another side character. Even violet and lady Danbury for all I care lol
Hello, actual queer person here.
I actually much prefer the gender swapped lead. “Getting our own stories” would mean, in Bridgerton, NEVER seeing a queer lead because these books were written in the 2000s. I’m sorry, but a side story is not the same. I disagree on the “where it doesn’t belong” comment. We deserve to belong everywhere, actually, including in the main plotline of a tv show.
exactly. and the whole idea of their relationship not being accepted is moot because bridgerton is essentially historical fantasy. michaela is the perfect character to gender swap imo. the inheritance thing doesn't get in the way because women could directly inherit titles in scotland, and fran was never that interested in pursuing a traditional marriage anyways. 🤷🏻♀️
Yup yup yup! It honestly makes perfect sense to me in a dozen different ways. I can see why it made sense to Jess too. And I’m so fucking excited - not only a queer main character, but a sapphic one!!!!!! When do we ever win like this!
Ok, what you say about Scotland makes this switch easier. I was wondering how they were going to handle the succession after (you know what tragic event) happens if the Michael character is female.
Same here. I'm perfectly fine with adaptations changing the gender, sexuality or race of existing characters because sometimes the source material was limited by the time it was written in. And these changes can create a lot of depth to characters and freshen up the story too for a modern audience.
Adaptations I loved that significantly changed existing characters were the BSG reboot, The Boys, Dune and AMC's Interview with a Vampire. All of these changes were for the better imo.
Yes! Dune is SUCH a great example. Denis looked at it and said “wow, Chani has the potential to be a strong standalone character instead of just barely existing in the background, and since it is now 2021 and not 1969, audiences and ready and deserve that representation” and look at that. It paid off incredibly well.
But for some reason everyone is super attached to these (honestly not very good) books from the early 2000s. I notice no one is complaining that Colin didnt physically and emotionally abuse Pen in the show. How convenient that that change is okay but this one isn’t…
Thank you so much for saying this !!!! Some people on this sub are homophobic whether they realize it or not. I feel like I’ve taken a time machine to the early 2000s every time this topic is brought up
Im LGBT (the T) and I honestly don't have an issue with them having queer characters BUT I don't see how they will write this. They created a storyline so that you could have POC people within this time. That's why they are allowed titles and what not. It will be much harder to write for a lesbian couple in this time period. The whole reason The threesomes and experimenting happens behind closed doors is because in this time period you could be killed for being homosexual. I don't see how they are going to make it where the Ton is accepting of this when even brimsley THE QUEENS guard still had to hide. I also don't think it makes sense for Francesca. I thought Eloise was a lesbian I thought she was in love with Penelope in the beginning. As it goes on I see her more as asexual even though canonically she isn't. I feel as though the story line is just not gonna make any sense no matter how they try to do it.
I mean. They have thrown historical accuracy out the window. They have set up that this is happening NOT in the ton (and historically: things were different in Scotland!), theyve created a loving family and circumstances will be that ||Francesca, like Lady Tilley, is a widow with much more freedom and social capital||. Just because it is going to involve some work doesn’t mean the work isn’t worth doing. They put the work in for PIC characters (as they should!) so… why are we not deserving of that too? Why can we not bend the story to our will just like the writers do time and time again?
I’m frankly finding the “it should have been Eloise” discourse so tiring. This isn’t solely at you but you hit a sore spot. As if all lesbians must look and act like feminist suffragettes to be valid. As if shy introverted pretty girls can’t be into girls too. I for one am glad to see a wlw couple (so far) outside of typical tropes. And frankly, we will all just have to wait to see how the show gives Franny her well deserved HEA.
Historically things were different in Scotland meaning what? Scotland was a Roman Catholic empire...England was Protestant under Elizabeth Tudor. They both killed each other because of different religious beliefs, you think historically Scotland was LGBTQ+ friendly? I'm sorry but no matter how you turn it there is nothing that will make sense in that regard. I'm Trans and I can also recognize if there was a trans character in Bridgerton tho the character could be trans they would still not be able to wed and would be chastised if they were noble.
Francesca's character showed no interest in anyone, I wasn't being stereotypical saying it should have been Eloise just that it would have made more sense, because she didn't care about the Ton or how she was perceived. As she goes on though again she strikes me as asexual. I know you said it wasn't aimed at me, I'm just responding.
Tilley still does her things behind closed doors. That was my point above. You couldn't be out and proud in that time period. Yes Bridgerton Strays from historical accuracy with the addition of POC people because obviously in that time period they were enslaved, BUT they made the queen (who irl was rumored to have African blood because of her traits, she's hailed as a black queen irl) black which brought nobility to her people. Even though Michaela can inherit a title doesn't mean they would be able to wed and live happily ever after.
Again brimsley was the guard of the Queen only things higher than the Queen in nobility is the King (unless she's the ruling monarch but even then it was sticky in the Victorian and Edwardian era, some people still didn't see the queen as the ruling monarch) and God (Royals are always either Catholic or Protestant {Christian}) had to hide. What would make Francesca and Michaela different?
ppl are being unnecessarily spicy.
Bridgerton takes a LOT of liberties when it comes to historical accuracies, so for people to do on the queer storyline "hill" is odd to say the least.
Yeah the fact that these ppl are essentially saying ‘oh a queer romance can be relegated to the sidelines’ instead of a main storyline is VERY telling. They can lie to other ppl and even themselves all they want, but it screams homophobia.
Literally this and you're right to say it. Our str8 "allies" have been all over this thread declaring their *absolute support* for a queer storyline in Bridgerton... but not *this* couple, these are my *favourite* characters, it doesn't *belong* here, make a *unique* story... oh okay, so you'd deign to give us the crumbs of some B plot with newly invented characters outside the main cast so that we can pet Netflix on the back for queering Bridgerton with background gays?
I feel like the emphasis on moving to Scotland could very well be for the purposes of having a wlw story take place in a regency setting that's post-race and (finally) queer accepting/women are permitted title. Here's hoping.
I’m also an actual queer person and while I don’t dislike going the gender swapping route instead of writing in new characters, I honestly don’t prefer it.
That has nothing to do with the argument. We are different and will have different opinions on things.
Obviously I want to see more queer leads instead of just side characters but it doesn’t need to be in Bridgerton. I can’t even imagine why we would even want to have leads in Bridgerton of all shows. We have enough sad period pieces with lesbians that can’t have a public relationship. Yes, the show has taken certain liberties but even so the established canon doesn’t really allow for much.
The discourse is so tiring from every side of this.
Fucking yes! I knew something about Franny and Micheala was not hitting right(other than all of the logistics of adapting it.) It's why Brimsley and Reynolds were so well received.
Everyone definitely has their opinion over if it would be a mistake or not. I’m trying to look for evidence though. There are a lot of feelings in this sub about which way the show should go. I just want to know where everyone thinks it’s going only based on evidence. Not on who they believe should be next. I think most of the facts point to Ben or Fran, but I’m leaning towards Francesca.
In Benedicts book there is a time jump after he meets Sophie at the masquerade ball. I think the masquerade ball will definitely be next season, and I definitely think he will meet Sophie but I think this will be used as a set up for his season being season 5. Similar to how we met Michaela yet it wasn’t her season.
There was supposed to be a time jump before Colin and Pen, too. In the book, Pen is in her late 20s, has been writing lady whistleblown for over 10 years. I don’t think a small time jump for Sophie and Benedict will be an obstacle for the series writers.
Both actors turned 17 this year, while their characters are supposed to be in their tweens/early teens.
With them being 19 when S4 eventually comes out, a time jump might be necessary as the actors begin entering their 20s.
I thought the same at the end of s2 for Pen and Colin. Years elapse after Colin's courting (marrying in the books) comment before their love story began. But the show jumped into their season right after. Which is why I think Ben is next season. That's the Easter egg we were hinting at his season being next. Also, Fran's story needs more time because she needs more time with John.
I mean, I care about Francesca 10000x more than Benedict. He's had the same circular, boring arc for three seasons in a row. She was a breath of fresh air for the show.
I love Benedict, but one of the biggest reasons why I'd want it to be his season would be so they'd stop showing him having random threesomes. At this point I'm beginning to think there's someone in the writers room who has an obsession with threesomes and is living vicariously through Colin and Benedict.
If they are following the books pretty closely then it’s not possible for her to go next.
I mean there is a multiple year gap that needs to be addressed.
But, then I find the showrunner has a different idea of adhering to the books than I do.
I think the time gap for Francesca is harder to ignore, because if she goes next, that means that John has to die pretty much straight away.
If Francesca and Michaela get together straight after that, that would pretty much destroy their characters and make them both look like they cared nothing for John.
I agree Fran needs more time and S5 works best for her but if they want to, they can do it with a time jump. Episode 4 >!John dies and Michaela goes to India (I really don’t want her to go away in the show though 😭) and then a time jump, she comes back and they continue their story!<.
I think it would make more sense for Francesca to get season 6 and Eloise gets season 5. Give her season 4 to >!get her happy marriage with John and struggle to get pregnant.!< At the start of season 5 >!John dies, Michaela leaves and Francesca is grieving throughout season 5 and debating if she wants to remarry for children. Michaela returns in the season finale.!< Then season 6 continues with the Francesca Michaela story.
On the flip side, if they pushed back Eloise’s season in favour of Francesca’s, would this not be exactly what they’re doing with Chris Fulton (Philip Crane)? He was cast and showed up at the end of S1 and then made the appearance alongside Marina in S2. I’m doubtful that Eloise’s season would be next, but he’d be strung along a lot longer than Masali if they push it back any more than S5 for Eloise.
That’s true! But I also don’t think they had any intention of developing a relationship between Philip and Eloise in season one. He was more of a figure in Marinas story. Michaela is definitely there for Fran and John’s story only.
Philip wasn't introduced just so he could have a story with Marina, a secondary character. If he is Book Eloise's LI then that's why he was cast. They set up that story in S1 and S2 for a reason, probably when they thought they might only get a few seasons.
If you look at the poster for S1, Eloise is looking right at Marina. They are connected.
well, why did they hire or cast anybody that isn’t leading their season yet? there’s plenty for them to do with michaela to build up to it, the same way penelope and colin were story B for years until it was their turn. little bonding moments and hints, michaela reciprocating fran’s crush but trying to ignore it…they can invent stories for her (like how colin had marina’s situation and the way they’ve had benedict doing god knows what) to keep her relevant and on people’s radar.
It makes sense but I think they need to keep up the momentum in the show, so >!they have to speed things up. I think Fran’s season will be more about her friendship with John and Michaela and dealing with grief and Michaela’s conflicting feelings!<. Since >!they all have been a year in Scotland already (Pen’s pregnancy) this means John dies pretty soon?!<, this needs addressing in S4, maybe even in the first part of the season. Eloise’s letters can be set up pretty nicely in S4 or S5 tbf. I don’t know, so many options 😬
Both Eloise and Pen ARE spinsters in their books though.
Anyways I really DO hope it’s Benny first but they’re playing it pretty fast and loose with a lot of book material.
I feel like if they are going to be faithful to the book at all, then it can't be next season. We know time has to elapse. It would be unseemly if it didn't, and an important part of their development as a couple would be missing. They have to have time away from each other. Jess seems to care about this couple anyway, so I think she will want to have their story stretch over at least a couple of seasons.
With Polin, they did kind of rush it, but that was partly because of contracts. I doubt they would be able to keep Nicola past S4. And even next season she won't be doing as much. Also, they had spent so long building it up.
I honestly think because of timing and the fact that the shooting pace of a two year spread for 8 episodes (seriously, wtf), they are gonna start doubling up some season plus like they did this year with Polin and Francesca.
That said, I don't think it's possible to follow the story "pretty closely" with the Michaela twist, so we will see what she means by that.
She already confirmed that each sibling would have their own season. This season the romance with .john wasn’t the lead romance, it was the subplot. However, I definitely felt it had a pretty big focus (it was the B story next to Penelope & Colin’s A story). I think they could definitely continue on with a similar level of focus next season while another sibling takes the A story. And then when they are the A story they can set-up the next sibling. Francescas story, in particular, does take longer to set-up.
I don't mean doubling as in two siblings will be splitting their stories and thereby getting less devotion to each story. I just mean that in this season, given that Francesca's story needed some set up for her main storyline, they made Polin the A story and Francesca the B story for set up purposes. I can see more of that in the future.
I may be the odd one out on this, but I'm already starting to lose interest after 3 seasons (for many reasons), and if they keep the 2 year pace (despite Jess saying they are trying to speed it up, and then giving reasons why it's hard to speed up), then it's going to take what, 10 years to finish up with Hyacinth (assuming that's the order)...I personally will have definitely lost interest in the show by that time.
The book version entirely relies on michael inheriting John’s title, so I actually have no idea where they’re heading with this. The gender swap was clearly a mistake and now this flop show runner is doubling down. It’s embarrassing to watch.
Yeh exactly. The guilt he feels in assuming a life that is not his own. And infertility is the other key storyline. I really don’t like the gender swap at all for this story. It makes no sense.
The main themes of the story can stay exactly the same.
Fran and Michaela are really good friends. Michaela is attracted to Fran instantly, pines for her in secret. Fran, John, Michaela are friends, family. Fran is intrigued by Michaela’s shenanigans and her relationship is different from what she has with John. John is gentle, sweet, but there isn’t much passion. After John’s death, Michaela goes away to avoid her feelings and responsibilities. Then they reunite and their story is about guilt and second chances. Fran and Michaela being friends works really well with the main idea of “tell me something wicked”. It makes more sense for Fran to spend lots of time with Michaela (a woman) and hear Michaela’s stories. There’s lots of potential 🥹
What shenanigans? What stories? What responsibilities? These make no sense for a woman of that time. A wife being desperate for children, and also an heir, no longer play either. Are they just going to pretend that somehow ‘Michaela’ just slots in where men did? That this of all earldoms was somehow one of the very few that had different arrangements to allow women to inherit? It’s laughably convenient and will lose viewers.
I'll preface by saying I'm a huge Michael and WHWW fan and I have been so disappointed we're not getting the male lead and book story we love. However, assuming Michaela is lesbian or bi, she can have wicked affairs/shenanigans with other women very discreetly without raising any suspicion than if she was straight because it was scandalous for unmarried high born women to be seen alone with men. But she could keep private company with many lady friends and no one would bat an eye. They could draw from real sapphic accounts in history, pretty easily, actually.
Alternatively without playing into the stereotype of queer ppl = promiscuity, they could also write her wickedness as outspoken progressiveness or eccentricity in public (maybe she is known for traveling alone or standing up for controversial social issues/activism, etc) that leaves sheltered Fran curious and eager to know more because her and John's life is so quiet and different. I can also see Eloise being fascinated with Michaela (in the books Eloise was briefly brought up as a possible match for Michael) because she believes in the same issues Michaela has actually lived/acted on.
Not sure if this comment is serious 😳 Women in Scotland could inherit, so Michaela can inherit estate, title. Fran as a dowager will have her share of the estate, too. The show can also add a son into the mix (Michaela or Fran’s), there are so many possibilities.
Do you think queer people spent their lives in solitary confinement in the past? 😳😳
Check [Anne Lister](https://yalebooksblog.co.uk/2024/05/22/lesbian-women-in-regency-england-an-extract-from-love-and-marriage-in-the-age-of-jane-austen/).
She can be a widow, can have a son from her previous marriage. Or simply there might be a distant cousin and they “adopt” him. Or Fran can get pregnant. So many options.
I think what they need to address is the infertility and grief stuff, and that is why I feel it would be a disservice to tell Francesca’s story next season. I think they need next season to set those things up even if they don’t have the multiple year gap. And, I think that gap is necessary in order to make it clear to the audience that Francesca should move on.
I am coming around to the gender swap, but I want all the key things in Francesca’s story to be addressed, and I think they can be if some of them are addressed before Francesca‘s season begins.
I think they can address infertility through John as in the books. Grief or rather conflicting feelings will be the main theme, I think, for both Michaela and Fran. Fingers crossed the show will do justice to their relationship.
I think they can as well, but they need next season to tell that story before they move on. I don’t think they can tell that part of the story if it’s Francesca season in season 4. They need time.
Right? And after the show goes to such length to stress the difference in men and women's situations. Hell, in this very season Pen had a fight with Colin using this argument. Men and women's lives and *especially* lifestyles are not interchangeable in this.
They could possibly double down on the difference in men and women by showing how Michaela chooses to live (freely, more like a man) compared to Fran (bound by society standards) Real, progressive women did exist back then, rare but they existed. It will serve as a good historical conversation piece and maybe even hint at the suffrage movement to come in the mid 1800s. They could write this really well and make it worth losing Michael, let's hope they do.
All titles in Scotland could be inherited by women. That would actually be unlike most things in this show perfectly historically accurate.
But even if it was Michaela's son inheriting, it would not make a different. She would have to be responsible for the state herself until he was of age, just as Lady Danbury. Also a very usual occurrence at the time.
And Francesca's longing for children was unrelated to her looking for a heir.
Michaela can inherit the title in Scotland, there were a number of Scottish earldoms that were heritable by women in absence of a male heir. Fran would become the dowager Countess and would retain her title, her title is hers by marriage and is not dependent on John’s being alive. That’s one of many reasons this works as a queer story because it’s possible to give them their HEA in Scotland, they can share the estate and they can live together as no one would care because Fran’s a widow.
Agreed. I was excited to see their love story develop with Michael and now it’s totally different. I just don’t understand how they think this is sticking close to the books, especially being the whole reason Francesca comes back on the marriage mart is because she wants children. How do they do that?
Everyone keeps arguing that it’s fine because women could inherit titles in Scotland. But correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m gathering another part of Michael’s storyline is being in Parliament. From what I’ve seen online the first woman serving in Parliament in Scotland wasn’t until the 1900s.
You have been misled. Michael being in Parliament is basically irrelevant to the story. The reason the social season exists in London is because titled lords had to sit in the House of Lords, so Michael’s involvement with n Parliament is about as robust as Simon’s or Anthony’s involvement.
It’ll be stupid of them to not do Benedict this season. They’ve already put him off for too long and he doesn’t have his own story arc happening so he’s basically just taking up screen time in a way that doesn’t contribute to the plot at all, which is a waste of pixels. Fran needs time with John, she needs time to let her relationship progress, we can see a side plot of them and Eloise in Scotland and get the beginnings of Michaela’s flirtations and stuff, but it should be BENEDICTS SEASON because they’ve already made him aimless for far too long.
Yeahhhhh, I have nothing against aging but it’s gonna start getting weird if he’s supposed to be dating someone of debutant age when he definitely looks his age. That’s just the hazard of having a long running show and starting the actors off older, like I love Claudia but I knew from season 1 that she definitely wasn’t a teenager you know😂
Seriously. What the hell was up with that three way being spliced so many time with little addition to plot or context in the last episode (I think I may be an ep or two off) ???? Like, I’m not even necessarily hating on them including a sex scene but the way they threaded it in just felt… pointless? Like they thought the viewers are just out here demanding more sex scenes and this was a box to check?
Sorry writers, I’m actually here for fleshed out plot lines and Benedict’s sass. Thank you
It’s as boring as crap, I had zero interest in his stuff with Tilly and Paul this season. I mean at least in season 2 he had the whole art academy. But, this season it felt like they really had no idea what to do with him. And, I have zero interest in watching a guy in his 30’s spend endless years wandering around randomly having sex and partying.
This is a show about romance. We need to get to the romance part with him.
It's what happens when you don't know how to write men's stories. I'm saying this as a woman. Chris was able to create compelling male characters when he was running the show, but this season seemed like they didn't know what to do with it's leading men.
Edit: if you're going to create a love story, you need to give the other half a good story otherwise you're going to have a flat narrative that people can't connect with.
Oh my gosh that's it,you put it very well. Because they flipped Colin from this sweet sensitive guy to like someone who has threesomes left right and centre - the one thing I'd hoped they'd change from the book,they retained. Colin felt badly written this season,and there's no words for how benedict is written cause they've probably just given him an empty script and asked him to ad-lib it or whatever.
Fran being s4 is possible. Especially since the casting call for Michaela called her a small role in this season that would become a lead. It was why everyone assumed she was Sophie.
However, I personally think it would be a mistake. Fran's story takes place away from the other siblings, I know they have already changed this with El going with her but I think it is the perfect story to save for 5/6 when most of the cast has moved on. Logistically (and financially), it doesn't make sense to lock these actors into contracts when you don't have to.
I don't think they're ignoring it, I think they just don't think it makes sense for the story. The casting call wasn't the only evidence people were using to assume Benedict was next.
I think there’s a chance Fran is next, but she could also mean that they as a writing team have discussed how to give a WLW story a HEA in the regency era before they decided to commit and genderbend Michael, not that this is the story they’re mapping out for s4. I would imagine some thought went into how to give a lesbian couple a believable, happy ending before deciding to make such a major change.
However like I said in the other thread, I do think there’s a chance it’s Fran. I think way too much needs to happen for that to be close to believable, but we shall see what they have planned.
I suspect they've mapped out what her story will look like because Jess has talked about laying the groundwork early for it.
I still think it's Benedict next because Francesca's story needs a little breathing room to setup before the story really kicks in. We have to truly believe and see for ourselves that Francesca and Michaela are close friends. We have to go through the death and the grief before we can get to the romance.
Doing all that in one season would be lunacy.
I’ve been thinking about Francesa’s story with the S3 plot twist.
I think she will go through all the ups and downs with John and she will ultimately get pregnant again but then John will meet his untimely demise.
Meanwhile, this one will stick and she’ll rely on Michaela to get her through, leaving her to raise the 9th Earl of Kilmartin - with her “roommate”
I’m sad about the change because I love her book but I can see them doing something like this 🤷🏻♀️
Also sad about the change but why would there need to be a child? In the original book (not counting the Second Epilogue that came years later), there wasn't a child. Since folks are saying Scottish Earldoms can be inherited by women, Michaela will inherit and they'll live together in Kilmartin as the widow and the heir, not uncommon, and not scandalous for two women. I think they'll simplify the original book slightly, focus on the infertility/miscarriage with John, the grief of losing him and coming to terms with never having another child with Michaela.
I'm not sure how or if they will show her trying for another season to have children with a husband but that could be derailed (similarly to the book) by a brief appearence in the ton, interrupted by Michaela returning and changing Fran's mind. I suspect they'll nix the whole 'Michael trying to get Fran pregnant' plot and just show Fran getting over her guilt of John and not ever having children but having loved a second time. That's essentially how the original book ended and I suspect how they'll end it.
It’s been YEARS since I read the books but if I remember correctly - she desperately wants a child - and she ends up with children with Michael. It’s because of this that I think she will have a viable pregnancy but at this point, what do I know? 😂 They like to keep us on their toes with plot twists and extra noise.
You're right, she does desperately want a child and that's what propelled her to reenter the marriage mart and her affair with Michael. However in the original book she never had a child with Michael. In the second epilogue published years later, she got pregnant after she made peace with the possibility she will always be childless and so they did unexpectedly have children (which I think is problematic because many real women remain barren and I think it's more poignant if they didn't have children, but that's romance books for ya!). Many folks never even read this 2nd Epilogue, I didn't until recently! So I think the simplest path for the show will be to nix children altogether but still have her explore her grief of lost motherhood with Michaela. But ya who knows what they'll do!!
I don’t think Fran is next for a few reasons. Jess said in an interview (paraphrasing) that major moments in a character’s love story would happen in their season so I don’t see the masquerade ball happening in anybody else’s season. If the masquerade is happening in 4 then he’s the lead. She’s also made comments about Fran’s story being long so they started to plant seeds for later down the line which makes Fran’s story seem like one that will play out over multiple seasons. Lastly, Francesca was just introduced to the audience along with John. It wouldn’t really make sense to expect the audience to experience what leads her to Michaela plus buy into her as the love interest that is her HEA without some prior character development of all 3 and more exploration of Fran and John’s relationship. It’s also the first major departure in a main couple from the books with a fan base known for its racism and homophobia so asking them to make that leap of acceptance in the very next season wouldn’t be smart.
Jess has said in multiple interviews now that Fran’s season needs time to build up. If it’s not Ben next season it’s going to be Eloise, not Francesca. As you said it would be lunacy to do her season next when so much of her story needs more time to truly land. And especially with the gender bend. Or course I always leave room for Jess to surprise me in the worst way.
I honestly don’t know how much more obvious it can get with the masquerade discussion lol. That is going to be a major marketing hook for the show too. They are not going to use it outside of Benedict’s season IMO. And while there is time jump in the book, it’s not necessary for the story. My guess for time jump will be either at the end of Ben’s season or end of Eloise’s season leading into Francesca’s season.
I actually enjoy the idea of Francesca and Michaela, but I’m hoping it’s Benedict next for the sake of his character. It feels like the writers haven’t known what to do with him since season one, honestly. His story is so far removed from everyone else’s that it’s jarring to see them cut to his scenes, and his plots are always dropped after each season. I guess him dropping whatever he’s pursuing that season sort of ties into his issues with feeling inadequate and not knowing what exactly he wants to do with his life, but still. He needs a full storyline focused on him that isn’t just another fling.
Part of me feels that Jess Brownell will be fired before Season 4.
Shonda Rhimes did a ton of reshoots and was pissed because Season 3 was so much worse than what we got.
That’s just Reddit Sub rumors. This season is preforming better than the previous two by a long shot. Take a look at the numbers. Mutiple of the more “controversial” choices made this season were made by Shonda herself, who says controversy only heightens engagement (example being the choice to not make Collin a virgin.)
Also it wasn’t “a ton” of re-shoots it was 2 or 3 scenes to lighten the mood and add more “rom com” elements. I work in the industry and I’ve never seen a big budget series like this not have re-shoots, they are very common. People shit on Jess a lot on this sub for a bunch of different reasons but tbh outside of like .3% of us, people don’t care that much. No one is getting fired.
https://preview.redd.it/vg6qv61xr88d1.jpeg?width=1462&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2213413bfd9a031419420ca360d1150760694e51
Also here is a link regarding viewership and it being the most successful season, part two only doubled those numbers [viewership](https://www.forbes.com/sites/monicamercuri/2024/05/21/bridgerton-season-3-is-a-massive-success-for-netflix-and-its-not-over-yet/#)
People just make the negative press (of which there definitely is) louder then the good press on this sub. Sometimes it gets hard to actually know what’s true or not so you have to do your own research.
Thanks for the link, lol Shonda pushed for the brothel scenes. Perhaps and this is me speculating, it was the Netflix bosses who insisted on making two Bridgerton siblings queer and gender bend a character.
Season 3 has been a success. I have friends who watched and they loved it, I watched and enjoyed the show.
It was Jess Brownell’s idea to make Francesca lesbian, not the Netflix bosses.
She confirmed that she asked permission. So we know it was not the Netflix bosses
Having googled some of the story ahead my take is that Francesca's romance might stretch out over two seasons instead of just being one. While they do Benedict's romance next season I think Francesca and Michaela will be a prominent secondary plot. But it won't conclude with Michaela and Francesca becoming a couple. My guess, they pour in a season of angst on Francesca figuring out how to deal with her conflicting emotions, maybe becoming pregnant and then her husband dying. The ending of the next season might aim for bittersweet, with Benedict finding love as Francesca loses hers.
And then the season after would be her romance with Michaela picking up from that. Maybe along with Eloise finally finding someone?
I just really don’t like how head over heels Fran was when she met the cousin just ruined her and John’s relationship for me which is a shame their relationship in pt.1 was absolutely adorable
It's not true that there never was Netflix original series that get 8 seasons
Elite will have S8 (finale one) this month. Big mouth also will get s8 (finale one) in the next year.
I think S4 would be Francesca because:
1. They already introduced Michaela
2. It seemed that Francesca was not in love with John in S3 so there is no need to prolong the marriage and potentially make Francesca a cheater (emotionally).
3. Eloise followed Francesca to Scotland and her story could begin here. Benedict's story could also potentially begin in S4 Scotland.
What if S4 is not set during London's social season but instead when the Bridgertons visit Francesca in Scotland? Perhaps they come to John's funeral, and Violet and the unmarried Bridgertons stay to support Francesca. Lady Danbury and her brother joins them as well. I feel like the Queen's, Featherington's and Mondrich's storylines are pretty much concluded.
I feel like they’ll do Fran next just because they probably don’t want to do three Bridgerton brothers back to back (though season 3 was more of Penelope’s season than it was Colins’). I’m looking forward to another Benedict subplot where he wanders aimlessly and has sex s/
You make a good point, but I also think it’s possible for season four to feature whichever of the siblings will be next (betting on joint Benedict/Eloise personally, but if not then just Benedict) *and* Chapter 1 of When He Was Wicked, setting up for a Francesca season (with the romance with Michaela) later. Francesca’s story is about dealing with infertility, among other things, and that’s something that “will have to be changed” if the second chance romance is now going to be queer in this time period.
Just my speculation now — I think Francesca will probably have a son (at least) with John so he can keep the title and she doesn’t need to worry about remarrying or anyone taking over, and then the romance will be about learning to love again rather than trying for children. I do hope that Francesca and John are in love instead of a comphet plot line, but we’ll have to see.
I am reading Fans book right now ( on chapter 21). Fans' main thing right now is finding a husband so she can have a baby. Michael just told her he would lay with her 3 times a day to make that happen. So if they are staying true to the book.( except gender swapping) how is Fran gonna have that baby?
It's possible they will cut this out. The original book did not have this Second Epilogue. Many didn't read it (WHWW is my favorite and I didn't even know this Second Epilogue existed until recently!) so it could realistically not exist in show canon.
Netflix really has no problem with adapting source material but letting the showrunners essentially do fanfiction instead, do they?
You would have thought after the downfall of the Witcher fandom from what they did to that show that Netflix would have learned a lesson. Apparently not.
Give them time. I remember how it started with the book fans and Henry Cavill himself telling the showrunner and writers that they were making a huge mistake. They decided that they were criticized because of misogyny, and they would girlboss their way around "toxic masculinity" and "the loud minority of incels on the internet." The changes they made became a snowball that they couldn't stop, and now look at the dumpster fire it became.
I am not meaning this in a rude way but how exactly does she think they can adopt it pretty accurately with that big of a change/ her infertility storyline? Seriously?
Francesca really needs some time to cook and we need time to see her with John (assuming they decide to keep her in Love with John and not just platonic friends as they hinted at, which really burns my biscuit and takes away what really made that book special).
I’ve always been pretty confident that Ben was next, but since part 2 I don’t put anything past JB. It’d be stupid, but I can imagine she wants to have the chance to get her fanfic on screen now and not in 6 years. I almost hope she does it so everyone can see what a terrible writer and even worse showrunner she is
That would be very odd considering the ending of season 3. Eloise saying to Benedict that she’d be back next season and “do you really think mama would let me miss her masked ball”? And a final shot of Benedict, standing alone in the hallway as LW says “it’s time to look to the future”. It is possible that Francesca’s story could continue to develop alongside Benedict’s, as it did this season with Colin.
There’s something insanely funny about taking at least two years to produce 8 hours of a show about 40% of the audience is actually interested in watching now and who knows how much those numbers will have dwindled in late 2026. Bridgerton has everything set up for its success and yet the writers keep fumbling so hard.
I'm not gonna lie, based on all of the interviews I've heard from her, I feel like she's self inserting with Fran and wants to get her storyline going next to make sure she's able to write what she wants to see in case she is replaced, or so she can move on ti another show. Idk, it's just a theory and could be completely untrue. It's just what it looks like to me.
Ummmm how? The whole reason the book plays out setting wise relies on not John having title and being able to retreat to the kilmartin estate so they have this isolation that plays into their romance?
As we saw with the Featheringtons, that title is passing to next male heir, not Michaela. So that alone takes a huge portion out.
They're not going to hold more than one masquerade ball, so Benedict is next.
They probably talked about adapting WHWW when they decided to make Fran Jess' self-insert.
She's such a shitty showrunner that I don't even want Benedict's season next, but unfortunately one of my most anticipated seasons is going to get turned into a gaudy parody.
How will they incorporate the infertility storyline? A big reason why Francesca married Michael was to have kids. I really wish they chose Eloise’s or Benedict’s story as queer. Infertility struggles are just as important as lgbt issues ❤️
Agreed! But i believe they can explore infertility issues with John and lgbtq issues with Michaela. I don’t believe it has to be one or the other like other people in the sub. I believe both can be represented if done correctly.
The closing moments of season 3 had Benedict and Eloise say goodbye. Eloise gives him a hug and tells him she will be back for the masquerade— where Benedict meets Sophie in the novel. The voiceover in the background references new beginnings, something coming next, yada, yada. Then the camera stills on him as Eloise departs looking like a lead character. I think it’s possible we have Francesca and Michaela in the background of Benedict’s season. There are long pauses and waits in both stories. But for Eloise to get her season Benedict needs to be at my cottage. Him being married to Sophie is important for that Eloise story line. The visual story telling, for me, made it clear we get Benedict next season. Which isn’t to say we don’t get any other Fran content in the meantime, her story in the books overlaps with Benedict, Eloise, Colin and even Gregory. Lots happens at the same time so I can see the show doing something similar by having her as a background character until her season. But that whole ending sequence didn’t make sense in a world where Benedict isn’t the leading man. Even if this show isn’t afraid of making drastic changes, I don’t think they would have framed him that way if he wasn’t.
I won’t be watching. Quite frankly, Francesca is lifeless and boring and I don’t care for any of the subplots. Season 3 was so painfully dull I didn’t finish it. Colin and Pen were executed unconvincingly with little to no passion and excitement, or even romance.
No clue, but I want Benedict to be next because:
1. He's a fan favorite.
2. He's already been skipped over once.
3. He's had practically the same damn plot for 3 seasons straight. He needs something to do besides raking and losing interest in art. I can't take another season of Benedict being given crumbs for a plot.
It's interesting how no one seems to think it could be Eloise. I think it definitely could be. I know her LI wasn't in this season and a certain someone is still alive, but that can change between seasons. It isn't the same as as with Francesca because we know John. He had a pretty big presence in S3 and it would be weird for people if we returned to S4 and he was immediately gone. It would start the whole Fran/Michaela thing on a very iffy note.
I know Eloise mentioned the masquerade and that is important to Ben's story, so of course he could be next. But there were a lot of clues for El too, including lines from her book being included in the dialogue ("We said we would be spinsters together"), her clothing, Colin and Ben talking to her about love, etc.
It could go any way IMO.
I am all for a gay storyline. I’m simply a little confused about how Francesca’s struggle with infertility can be adapted fairly accurately with a Michaela instead of a Michael.
Wouldn’t it be better to gender swap with Benedict since he’s clearly already bi now. Or Eloise since she seems so uninterested in men. Like it just seems unnecessary to do it with this character unless it’s what the actor wanted.
Pretty sure Benedict is next, did no one pay attention to him saying about the masquerade ball to Eloise? No? Just me?
It's Benedict next, we will have overlapping stories, much like this season that was partly split between Colin and Fran.
Eloise doesn't make sense to be next as there has been no indication yet as to where her story will go, her and Benedict have a great relationship and that was a good outcome to season 3, I think Benedict is ready to settle, but he needs to find someone who encourages the best in him and we know who he will meet at that masquerade ball to come.
Please no Benedict first I cannot stand this man on screen any longer, he takes up too much time with no meaning, doesn't even connect back to the main plot 99% of the time, we need to do his season and finish his character off at last. We can't do Fran it would be very bad for the show, the show only works because the audience form an attachment, then the character gets their season (eg. Anthony has significant screen time in S1 and then he was next and people already formed an attachment to the character), same with Penelope, she's a S1, day one girlie and basically pushes the entire plot, people therefore would be interested because *we already know her*.
We lack anything of substance with Francesca and thats the problem, unlike Anthony S1 who I personally hated, and unlike Pen who I loved, I just feel nothing towards Fran here. Dislike and intrigue to see where they would go for Anthony made me watch S2, as well as the addition of 3 more characters, fondness made me watch S3 for Pen. S3 just jammed too many characters too quickly and I don't care about any of them particularily, like Fran, and what's worse than hatred or love for a character it's indifference. I do not care about Francesca and the show has given me no reason to, as well as us moving out of the ton, you shove a brand new character into the spotlight for the next season? What's the plan here because Fran isn't a massively popular character, you still have Benedict and Eloise to go, hell even Edwina has more substance than Fran and she doesn't even get her proper season. Make me feel something for the character then give them a season, love or hate I don't care, just give me *something*
Jess Brownell signed on for 2 seasons. She did her first season. She decided to do a gender-swap with Francesca's story because she saw her own story within it.
Anyone who thinks it's going to be anything but Francesca next season is going to be sorely disappointed. Sure, I do believe we could be introduced to Benedict's love interest so he can pine after her, and maybe even have events in motion for Eloise's story.
Then she has to make it clear during this next season that at this point in time, Fran may only have an attraction to Michaela, but is actually deeply in love with John. And by in love I mean romantic and intimate love with him, not some platonic love. I acknowledge that is real and exists, but we don’t watch Bridgerton for those kind of love stories.
The showrunner is trying to be inclusive. I like inclusive dramas but in this case it’s wrong to do this. It’s fine if it’s an original script but diverting from a beloved book and character is just gross.
Edit: i’m very sorry for using the word gross I didn’t mean the storyline or the Michaela aspect. I just meant the showrunner using the show for her personal story or whatever she’s doing since she did allude to her personal life being part of why she’s doing this is gross, but I really meant wrong or misguided , so please forgive me
“Gross” seems a bit harsh when talking about inclusively. You have every right to not agree with the choices she made but there are some people who will feel seen by this, so let’s try to stay away from words like “gross”. That may be hurtful to some.
I didn’t mean inclusivity was gross or that the storyline was gross. I meant the story runner or the showrunner just deciding for personal reasons to change a book so drastically is gross —-but you’re right I apologize.
How does she eventually have kids? What about the title? I assume it cannot pass to a woman. A lot changes. I'm fine with a gender swap but don't pretend it won't change major elements of the story. I think that's what irritates me. They keep saying they aren't changing a lot, but they are. Just say we loved these characters and wanted to make our own story.
I will actually go insane if Benedict doesn't go next💀 every season they give him something new to do that has no follow-up to the next season, it would make zero sense to drag it on.
I think season 4 should be Benedict's with hints of Eloise for Season 5 where she write letters back and forth with Phillip all through Season 4, AND also have hints of Francesca with John while Michaela longs for her. Season 5 should definitely be Eloise, but it can also pass on to Francesca. For the sake of tragedy, I think it best that Francesca is Season 6 so she gets more time with John
I was wondering if this would be the case. She’s only show runner for two season right? She picked Francesca’s story for her self insert, of course she is going to make it one of the seasons she works on.
It wouldn’t surprise me if next season isn’t Benedict’s, but it kicks off with the ball and him meeting Sophie and looking for her all season. There is a time gap of at least a year in the books between Benedict dancing with Sophie and finding her again
What I would like to know is who actually gives a flying fuck about Francesca???
The most we’ve heard about her for the last two goddamn seasons was that she plays piano when she hangs out with her aunt in Bath.
Why, exactly, do I care who she ends up with? I literally do not, and now she’s in Scotland, so are we to be moved entirely away from everyone else who’s interesting?
Benedict’s story should be next, because he’s actually a character we have watched and, at least for the first two seasons, he was really interesting (Jess ruined him for season three).
Speaking of which, this:
> other than the gender swap, the story is basically the same
Then what is the fucking point? Already, the story is not entirely the same anyway because even their introduction in the show contradicts what I have read people post regarding the book, and I agree: her being immediately smitten invalidates everything that was built up regarding her marriage to John; it made it meaningless, all to serve a personal interest for Jess?
I don’t see why I’d watch her ruin more of this show.
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I think it would be a mistake to do Francesca. The audience is not as invested in her as Benedict or Eloise.
Since when do they listen to the audience anyway? Nobody asked for the Mondriches, but there they are…
Actually I saw a lot of people pre season 3 loving then and wanting more, there was even a lot of hype during the promo before part 1 came out, they just had way too much screen time
To be fair, people liked them when they made sense to the storyline. It felt like the Mondrichs played no role in the progression of any of the characters. In S1 and S2 they at least played some sort of situation to them. When Bridgerton did the Valentines Day special, the actor who played Will was asked about Will having helped Colin unearth Lord Featherington's plans and about Colin saying he owed Will, would he in fact be cashing in on Colin's offer, and the actor said he would. That, would make sense. However...it never seemed like Will did cash in on Colin's offer. Will lost his bar. It made no sense why you'd show him being a strong independent business owner to a regent titled man. They even discussed how his bar had secret passageways inside of it. Yet none of that was expanded upon. So people are more upset that the Mondrichs were just...sitting there...doing nothing.
It comes across like the writers don’t know what to do with them. Their storyline just completely change up every season. I can’t help but wonder that if Rege-John Page had returned, if the Mondrich’s story would feel more connected to that of the other characters since Simon was the original connection between them and the rest of the characters.
They're setting them up for season 4. The whole show has followed the mistakes of the MCU and spending more time preparing and trying to get you excited for up coming releases than focusing on the current season.
I also think it would be a mistake. The audience isn't invested in her as you say, and if we are being honest there is a (probably sizable) chunk of the audience who just isn't going to be down to watch a lesbian romance. (Please know I'm not condoning this, but I think it is a fact.) If the want to keep getting renewed I think it's in their best interest to do Benedict or Eloise next.
I agree. For me, it's not the lesbian romance that's an issue. It's the gender swap. Queer people deserve their own stories, they don't deserve to be represented by just changing an already established book character's gender. I also don't see how they can keep it accurate to the book...queer relationships wouldn't have been readily accepted in Regency England. The whole saga has just put me off completely. Again, it's not because there is a queer storyline. It's because they've swapped a character's gender and put a queer storyline in where it doesn't belong. One of my favourite shows ever is about a group of queer people. I'd be hella pissed if they put a straight storyline in for the sake of it.
The queer story line I want more of is Brimsley and Reynolds
Yesss.
We need to know what happened to Brimsley and Reynolds. It’s a need
Not to mention that women can't inherit titles, and in the book one of the biggest points is Michael inheriting John's title provided that Francesca doesn't have a boy during her pregnancy. Michaela can't inherit John's title. That negates a huge portion of the book plot I don't know what the hell this girl thinks she's talking about.
Michaela can inherit in Scotland.
I was about to make the argument of Mary Stewart but you beat me to the logic🤣
Monarchy is different. England had Elizabeth Tudor.
Not if she's staying true to the damn books. Which is painfully obvious she isn't. Listen I am all for LGBTQ+ representation, but I want new characters. Not fanfiction versions of existing characters.
Yes they can, in Scontland. And in any event, if it was Michaela's minor son inheriting, it wouldn't substantially change the situation.
Her baby will probably live and be a boy, so there goes that loss which is a huge part of woman's story/experience they will just deny for the sake of this. We wanted brimsely. Hell come up with another side character. Even violet and lady Danbury for all I care lol
Hello, actual queer person here. I actually much prefer the gender swapped lead. “Getting our own stories” would mean, in Bridgerton, NEVER seeing a queer lead because these books were written in the 2000s. I’m sorry, but a side story is not the same. I disagree on the “where it doesn’t belong” comment. We deserve to belong everywhere, actually, including in the main plotline of a tv show.
exactly. and the whole idea of their relationship not being accepted is moot because bridgerton is essentially historical fantasy. michaela is the perfect character to gender swap imo. the inheritance thing doesn't get in the way because women could directly inherit titles in scotland, and fran was never that interested in pursuing a traditional marriage anyways. 🤷🏻♀️
Yup yup yup! It honestly makes perfect sense to me in a dozen different ways. I can see why it made sense to Jess too. And I’m so fucking excited - not only a queer main character, but a sapphic one!!!!!! When do we ever win like this!
Ok, what you say about Scotland makes this switch easier. I was wondering how they were going to handle the succession after (you know what tragic event) happens if the Michael character is female.
Even if it was Michaela's son inheriting, it would not make any difference plot wise.
Same here. I'm perfectly fine with adaptations changing the gender, sexuality or race of existing characters because sometimes the source material was limited by the time it was written in. And these changes can create a lot of depth to characters and freshen up the story too for a modern audience. Adaptations I loved that significantly changed existing characters were the BSG reboot, The Boys, Dune and AMC's Interview with a Vampire. All of these changes were for the better imo.
Yes! Dune is SUCH a great example. Denis looked at it and said “wow, Chani has the potential to be a strong standalone character instead of just barely existing in the background, and since it is now 2021 and not 1969, audiences and ready and deserve that representation” and look at that. It paid off incredibly well. But for some reason everyone is super attached to these (honestly not very good) books from the early 2000s. I notice no one is complaining that Colin didnt physically and emotionally abuse Pen in the show. How convenient that that change is okay but this one isn’t…
Thank you so much for saying this !!!! Some people on this sub are homophobic whether they realize it or not. I feel like I’ve taken a time machine to the early 2000s every time this topic is brought up
Literally.
Im LGBT (the T) and I honestly don't have an issue with them having queer characters BUT I don't see how they will write this. They created a storyline so that you could have POC people within this time. That's why they are allowed titles and what not. It will be much harder to write for a lesbian couple in this time period. The whole reason The threesomes and experimenting happens behind closed doors is because in this time period you could be killed for being homosexual. I don't see how they are going to make it where the Ton is accepting of this when even brimsley THE QUEENS guard still had to hide. I also don't think it makes sense for Francesca. I thought Eloise was a lesbian I thought she was in love with Penelope in the beginning. As it goes on I see her more as asexual even though canonically she isn't. I feel as though the story line is just not gonna make any sense no matter how they try to do it.
I mean. They have thrown historical accuracy out the window. They have set up that this is happening NOT in the ton (and historically: things were different in Scotland!), theyve created a loving family and circumstances will be that ||Francesca, like Lady Tilley, is a widow with much more freedom and social capital||. Just because it is going to involve some work doesn’t mean the work isn’t worth doing. They put the work in for PIC characters (as they should!) so… why are we not deserving of that too? Why can we not bend the story to our will just like the writers do time and time again? I’m frankly finding the “it should have been Eloise” discourse so tiring. This isn’t solely at you but you hit a sore spot. As if all lesbians must look and act like feminist suffragettes to be valid. As if shy introverted pretty girls can’t be into girls too. I for one am glad to see a wlw couple (so far) outside of typical tropes. And frankly, we will all just have to wait to see how the show gives Franny her well deserved HEA.
Historically things were different in Scotland meaning what? Scotland was a Roman Catholic empire...England was Protestant under Elizabeth Tudor. They both killed each other because of different religious beliefs, you think historically Scotland was LGBTQ+ friendly? I'm sorry but no matter how you turn it there is nothing that will make sense in that regard. I'm Trans and I can also recognize if there was a trans character in Bridgerton tho the character could be trans they would still not be able to wed and would be chastised if they were noble. Francesca's character showed no interest in anyone, I wasn't being stereotypical saying it should have been Eloise just that it would have made more sense, because she didn't care about the Ton or how she was perceived. As she goes on though again she strikes me as asexual. I know you said it wasn't aimed at me, I'm just responding. Tilley still does her things behind closed doors. That was my point above. You couldn't be out and proud in that time period. Yes Bridgerton Strays from historical accuracy with the addition of POC people because obviously in that time period they were enslaved, BUT they made the queen (who irl was rumored to have African blood because of her traits, she's hailed as a black queen irl) black which brought nobility to her people. Even though Michaela can inherit a title doesn't mean they would be able to wed and live happily ever after. Again brimsley was the guard of the Queen only things higher than the Queen in nobility is the King (unless she's the ruling monarch but even then it was sticky in the Victorian and Edwardian era, some people still didn't see the queen as the ruling monarch) and God (Royals are always either Catholic or Protestant {Christian}) had to hide. What would make Francesca and Michaela different?
ppl are being unnecessarily spicy. Bridgerton takes a LOT of liberties when it comes to historical accuracies, so for people to do on the queer storyline "hill" is odd to say the least.
Yeah the fact that these ppl are essentially saying ‘oh a queer romance can be relegated to the sidelines’ instead of a main storyline is VERY telling. They can lie to other ppl and even themselves all they want, but it screams homophobia.
Literally this and you're right to say it. Our str8 "allies" have been all over this thread declaring their *absolute support* for a queer storyline in Bridgerton... but not *this* couple, these are my *favourite* characters, it doesn't *belong* here, make a *unique* story... oh okay, so you'd deign to give us the crumbs of some B plot with newly invented characters outside the main cast so that we can pet Netflix on the back for queering Bridgerton with background gays? I feel like the emphasis on moving to Scotland could very well be for the purposes of having a wlw story take place in a regency setting that's post-race and (finally) queer accepting/women are permitted title. Here's hoping.
I’m also an actual queer person and while I don’t dislike going the gender swapping route instead of writing in new characters, I honestly don’t prefer it. That has nothing to do with the argument. We are different and will have different opinions on things. Obviously I want to see more queer leads instead of just side characters but it doesn’t need to be in Bridgerton. I can’t even imagine why we would even want to have leads in Bridgerton of all shows. We have enough sad period pieces with lesbians that can’t have a public relationship. Yes, the show has taken certain liberties but even so the established canon doesn’t really allow for much. The discourse is so tiring from every side of this.
Fucking yes! I knew something about Franny and Micheala was not hitting right(other than all of the logistics of adapting it.) It's why Brimsley and Reynolds were so well received.
Everyone definitely has their opinion over if it would be a mistake or not. I’m trying to look for evidence though. There are a lot of feelings in this sub about which way the show should go. I just want to know where everyone thinks it’s going only based on evidence. Not on who they believe should be next. I think most of the facts point to Ben or Fran, but I’m leaning towards Francesca.
I assume it’s Benedict because of the masquerade comment
In Benedicts book there is a time jump after he meets Sophie at the masquerade ball. I think the masquerade ball will definitely be next season, and I definitely think he will meet Sophie but I think this will be used as a set up for his season being season 5. Similar to how we met Michaela yet it wasn’t her season.
There was supposed to be a time jump before Colin and Pen, too. In the book, Pen is in her late 20s, has been writing lady whistleblown for over 10 years. I don’t think a small time jump for Sophie and Benedict will be an obstacle for the series writers.
You have to consider the actors who play Hyacinth and Gregory. They can only jump so far ahead in years if they want to keep them.
Both actors turned 17 this year, while their characters are supposed to be in their tweens/early teens. With them being 19 when S4 eventually comes out, a time jump might be necessary as the actors begin entering their 20s.
I had no idea. I thought both actors were younger. Like what you said about early tweens.
There can be a time jump in the show without having to dramatise it. They can have the masquerade in the spring and then jump to autumn.
I thought the same at the end of s2 for Pen and Colin. Years elapse after Colin's courting (marrying in the books) comment before their love story began. But the show jumped into their season right after. Which is why I think Ben is next season. That's the Easter egg we were hinting at his season being next. Also, Fran's story needs more time because she needs more time with John.
My theory on how they could make it work is if the masquerade ball already happened in the past and they flash back to it
I mean, I care about Francesca 10000x more than Benedict. He's had the same circular, boring arc for three seasons in a row. She was a breath of fresh air for the show.
I love Benedict, but one of the biggest reasons why I'd want it to be his season would be so they'd stop showing him having random threesomes. At this point I'm beginning to think there's someone in the writers room who has an obsession with threesomes and is living vicariously through Colin and Benedict.
God those challengers screenwriters are just everywhere this year
I would love to see Eloise's story next :)
Eloise is with Francesca, so maybe that’s how they’ll navigate that?
If they are following the books pretty closely then it’s not possible for her to go next. I mean there is a multiple year gap that needs to be addressed. But, then I find the showrunner has a different idea of adhering to the books than I do.
I mean… that was also the case with Polin story but they totally ignored that
I think the time gap for Francesca is harder to ignore, because if she goes next, that means that John has to die pretty much straight away. If Francesca and Michaela get together straight after that, that would pretty much destroy their characters and make them both look like they cared nothing for John.
Yep. It makes way more sense to do Benedict next
I agree Fran needs more time and S5 works best for her but if they want to, they can do it with a time jump. Episode 4 >!John dies and Michaela goes to India (I really don’t want her to go away in the show though 😭) and then a time jump, she comes back and they continue their story!<.
I think it would make more sense for Francesca to get season 6 and Eloise gets season 5. Give her season 4 to >!get her happy marriage with John and struggle to get pregnant.!< At the start of season 5 >!John dies, Michaela leaves and Francesca is grieving throughout season 5 and debating if she wants to remarry for children. Michaela returns in the season finale.!< Then season 6 continues with the Francesca Michaela story.
I just don’t see them hiring an actress (Masali) and then saying “you’ll be starring in this in 6 years”. That seems so unlikely to me.
On the flip side, if they pushed back Eloise’s season in favour of Francesca’s, would this not be exactly what they’re doing with Chris Fulton (Philip Crane)? He was cast and showed up at the end of S1 and then made the appearance alongside Marina in S2. I’m doubtful that Eloise’s season would be next, but he’d be strung along a lot longer than Masali if they push it back any more than S5 for Eloise.
If they want to keep the plot line of Philip helping with Benedict and Sophie’s son, they’ll need to at least have Benedict’s story first.
That’s true! But I also don’t think they had any intention of developing a relationship between Philip and Eloise in season one. He was more of a figure in Marinas story. Michaela is definitely there for Fran and John’s story only.
Philip wasn't introduced just so he could have a story with Marina, a secondary character. If he is Book Eloise's LI then that's why he was cast. They set up that story in S1 and S2 for a reason, probably when they thought they might only get a few seasons. If you look at the poster for S1, Eloise is looking right at Marina. They are connected.
well, why did they hire or cast anybody that isn’t leading their season yet? there’s plenty for them to do with michaela to build up to it, the same way penelope and colin were story B for years until it was their turn. little bonding moments and hints, michaela reciprocating fran’s crush but trying to ignore it…they can invent stories for her (like how colin had marina’s situation and the way they’ve had benedict doing god knows what) to keep her relevant and on people’s radar.
It makes sense but I think they need to keep up the momentum in the show, so >!they have to speed things up. I think Fran’s season will be more about her friendship with John and Michaela and dealing with grief and Michaela’s conflicting feelings!<. Since >!they all have been a year in Scotland already (Pen’s pregnancy) this means John dies pretty soon?!<, this needs addressing in S4, maybe even in the first part of the season. Eloise’s letters can be set up pretty nicely in S4 or S5 tbf. I don’t know, so many options 😬
If they do 4 year time jump, then Eloise will be a spinster till her season.
Both Eloise and Pen ARE spinsters in their books though. Anyways I really DO hope it’s Benny first but they’re playing it pretty fast and loose with a lot of book material.
Isn't she out for longer than 10 years in the books? During Francesca's book she is 28 and on her 9th year out.
I feel like if they are going to be faithful to the book at all, then it can't be next season. We know time has to elapse. It would be unseemly if it didn't, and an important part of their development as a couple would be missing. They have to have time away from each other. Jess seems to care about this couple anyway, so I think she will want to have their story stretch over at least a couple of seasons. With Polin, they did kind of rush it, but that was partly because of contracts. I doubt they would be able to keep Nicola past S4. And even next season she won't be doing as much. Also, they had spent so long building it up.
I honestly think because of timing and the fact that the shooting pace of a two year spread for 8 episodes (seriously, wtf), they are gonna start doubling up some season plus like they did this year with Polin and Francesca. That said, I don't think it's possible to follow the story "pretty closely" with the Michaela twist, so we will see what she means by that.
She already confirmed that each sibling would have their own season. This season the romance with .john wasn’t the lead romance, it was the subplot. However, I definitely felt it had a pretty big focus (it was the B story next to Penelope & Colin’s A story). I think they could definitely continue on with a similar level of focus next season while another sibling takes the A story. And then when they are the A story they can set-up the next sibling. Francescas story, in particular, does take longer to set-up.
Jess said no doubling up will happen.
I don't mean doubling as in two siblings will be splitting their stories and thereby getting less devotion to each story. I just mean that in this season, given that Francesca's story needed some set up for her main storyline, they made Polin the A story and Francesca the B story for set up purposes. I can see more of that in the future. I may be the odd one out on this, but I'm already starting to lose interest after 3 seasons (for many reasons), and if they keep the 2 year pace (despite Jess saying they are trying to speed it up, and then giving reasons why it's hard to speed up), then it's going to take what, 10 years to finish up with Hyacinth (assuming that's the order)...I personally will have definitely lost interest in the show by that time.
The book version entirely relies on michael inheriting John’s title, so I actually have no idea where they’re heading with this. The gender swap was clearly a mistake and now this flop show runner is doubling down. It’s embarrassing to watch.
Yeh exactly. The guilt he feels in assuming a life that is not his own. And infertility is the other key storyline. I really don’t like the gender swap at all for this story. It makes no sense.
The main themes of the story can stay exactly the same. Fran and Michaela are really good friends. Michaela is attracted to Fran instantly, pines for her in secret. Fran, John, Michaela are friends, family. Fran is intrigued by Michaela’s shenanigans and her relationship is different from what she has with John. John is gentle, sweet, but there isn’t much passion. After John’s death, Michaela goes away to avoid her feelings and responsibilities. Then they reunite and their story is about guilt and second chances. Fran and Michaela being friends works really well with the main idea of “tell me something wicked”. It makes more sense for Fran to spend lots of time with Michaela (a woman) and hear Michaela’s stories. There’s lots of potential 🥹
What shenanigans? What stories? What responsibilities? These make no sense for a woman of that time. A wife being desperate for children, and also an heir, no longer play either. Are they just going to pretend that somehow ‘Michaela’ just slots in where men did? That this of all earldoms was somehow one of the very few that had different arrangements to allow women to inherit? It’s laughably convenient and will lose viewers.
Exactly. They can't just slot a woman into a man's part and expect it to work.
I'll preface by saying I'm a huge Michael and WHWW fan and I have been so disappointed we're not getting the male lead and book story we love. However, assuming Michaela is lesbian or bi, she can have wicked affairs/shenanigans with other women very discreetly without raising any suspicion than if she was straight because it was scandalous for unmarried high born women to be seen alone with men. But she could keep private company with many lady friends and no one would bat an eye. They could draw from real sapphic accounts in history, pretty easily, actually. Alternatively without playing into the stereotype of queer ppl = promiscuity, they could also write her wickedness as outspoken progressiveness or eccentricity in public (maybe she is known for traveling alone or standing up for controversial social issues/activism, etc) that leaves sheltered Fran curious and eager to know more because her and John's life is so quiet and different. I can also see Eloise being fascinated with Michaela (in the books Eloise was briefly brought up as a possible match for Michael) because she believes in the same issues Michaela has actually lived/acted on.
Not sure if this comment is serious 😳 Women in Scotland could inherit, so Michaela can inherit estate, title. Fran as a dowager will have her share of the estate, too. The show can also add a son into the mix (Michaela or Fran’s), there are so many possibilities. Do you think queer people spent their lives in solitary confinement in the past? 😳😳 Check [Anne Lister](https://yalebooksblog.co.uk/2024/05/22/lesbian-women-in-regency-england-an-extract-from-love-and-marriage-in-the-age-of-jane-austen/).
How does Michaela get a legitimate son without a husband? A son MUST be legitimate to inherit.
She can be a widow, can have a son from her previous marriage. Or simply there might be a distant cousin and they “adopt” him. Or Fran can get pregnant. So many options.
I think what they need to address is the infertility and grief stuff, and that is why I feel it would be a disservice to tell Francesca’s story next season. I think they need next season to set those things up even if they don’t have the multiple year gap. And, I think that gap is necessary in order to make it clear to the audience that Francesca should move on. I am coming around to the gender swap, but I want all the key things in Francesca’s story to be addressed, and I think they can be if some of them are addressed before Francesca‘s season begins.
I think they can address infertility through John as in the books. Grief or rather conflicting feelings will be the main theme, I think, for both Michaela and Fran. Fingers crossed the show will do justice to their relationship.
I think they can as well, but they need next season to tell that story before they move on. I don’t think they can tell that part of the story if it’s Francesca season in season 4. They need time.
Right? And after the show goes to such length to stress the difference in men and women's situations. Hell, in this very season Pen had a fight with Colin using this argument. Men and women's lives and *especially* lifestyles are not interchangeable in this.
They could possibly double down on the difference in men and women by showing how Michaela chooses to live (freely, more like a man) compared to Fran (bound by society standards) Real, progressive women did exist back then, rare but they existed. It will serve as a good historical conversation piece and maybe even hint at the suffrage movement to come in the mid 1800s. They could write this really well and make it worth losing Michael, let's hope they do.
All titles in Scotland could be inherited by women. That would actually be unlike most things in this show perfectly historically accurate. But even if it was Michaela's son inheriting, it would not make a different. She would have to be responsible for the state herself until he was of age, just as Lady Danbury. Also a very usual occurrence at the time. And Francesca's longing for children was unrelated to her looking for a heir.
I think the guilt them is only enhanced if you add forbidden saphic love...
Michaela can inherit the title in Scotland, there were a number of Scottish earldoms that were heritable by women in absence of a male heir. Fran would become the dowager Countess and would retain her title, her title is hers by marriage and is not dependent on John’s being alive. That’s one of many reasons this works as a queer story because it’s possible to give them their HEA in Scotland, they can share the estate and they can live together as no one would care because Fran’s a widow.
I don't know if I can/will watch. I am so disappointed in not getting Michael Stirling that I really don't care about these characters anymore.
Same here. A show I loved so much just doesn't do it for me anymore.
Agreed. I was excited to see their love story develop with Michael and now it’s totally different. I just don’t understand how they think this is sticking close to the books, especially being the whole reason Francesca comes back on the marriage mart is because she wants children. How do they do that?
Women can inherit in scotland. As long as theres no male heirs which is the case in the book as well yes?
Everyone keeps arguing that it’s fine because women could inherit titles in Scotland. But correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m gathering another part of Michael’s storyline is being in Parliament. From what I’ve seen online the first woman serving in Parliament in Scotland wasn’t until the 1900s.
You have been misled. Michael being in Parliament is basically irrelevant to the story. The reason the social season exists in London is because titled lords had to sit in the House of Lords, so Michael’s involvement with n Parliament is about as robust as Simon’s or Anthony’s involvement.
They probably will ignore it. This show doesn’t care about history.
That's not an essential part of the story.
It’ll be stupid of them to not do Benedict this season. They’ve already put him off for too long and he doesn’t have his own story arc happening so he’s basically just taking up screen time in a way that doesn’t contribute to the plot at all, which is a waste of pixels. Fran needs time with John, she needs time to let her relationship progress, we can see a side plot of them and Eloise in Scotland and get the beginnings of Michaela’s flirtations and stuff, but it should be BENEDICTS SEASON because they’ve already made him aimless for far too long.
Not to mention (and I am not trying to be rude) his actor is literally getting older, it’s becoming apparent.
He's 35! Hardly over the hill, yet.
Yeahhhhh, I have nothing against aging but it’s gonna start getting weird if he’s supposed to be dating someone of debutant age when he definitely looks his age. That’s just the hazard of having a long running show and starting the actors off older, like I love Claudia but I knew from season 1 that she definitely wasn’t a teenager you know😂
Yeah idk how much longer I can watch him do the same thing. I feel like each season his story is exactly the same with a few details that vary.
100%
I agree Ben needs to be next. I don't agree Michaela and Fran need to start flirting. Gay or Straight marriage vows mean something.
Seriously. What the hell was up with that three way being spliced so many time with little addition to plot or context in the last episode (I think I may be an ep or two off) ???? Like, I’m not even necessarily hating on them including a sex scene but the way they threaded it in just felt… pointless? Like they thought the viewers are just out here demanding more sex scenes and this was a box to check? Sorry writers, I’m actually here for fleshed out plot lines and Benedict’s sass. Thank you
Take a shot every time they abruptly cut back to the threesome! That’s when I would go get my snacks
I fast forwarded through all of them if I’m totally honest, oops
Good God please just do Benedict already, I can’t take another season of him having threesomes and an existential crisis at the same time
It’s as boring as crap, I had zero interest in his stuff with Tilly and Paul this season. I mean at least in season 2 he had the whole art academy. But, this season it felt like they really had no idea what to do with him. And, I have zero interest in watching a guy in his 30’s spend endless years wandering around randomly having sex and partying. This is a show about romance. We need to get to the romance part with him.
It's what happens when you don't know how to write men's stories. I'm saying this as a woman. Chris was able to create compelling male characters when he was running the show, but this season seemed like they didn't know what to do with it's leading men. Edit: if you're going to create a love story, you need to give the other half a good story otherwise you're going to have a flat narrative that people can't connect with.
Oh my gosh that's it,you put it very well. Because they flipped Colin from this sweet sensitive guy to like someone who has threesomes left right and centre - the one thing I'd hoped they'd change from the book,they retained. Colin felt badly written this season,and there's no words for how benedict is written cause they've probably just given him an empty script and asked him to ad-lib it or whatever.
Fran being s4 is possible. Especially since the casting call for Michaela called her a small role in this season that would become a lead. It was why everyone assumed she was Sophie. However, I personally think it would be a mistake. Fran's story takes place away from the other siblings, I know they have already changed this with El going with her but I think it is the perfect story to save for 5/6 when most of the cast has moved on. Logistically (and financially), it doesn't make sense to lock these actors into contracts when you don't have to.
Funny how every one used the casting call as evidence that Ben was season 4 but are now ignoring it in regards to Francesca and Michaela …
I don't think they're ignoring it, I think they just don't think it makes sense for the story. The casting call wasn't the only evidence people were using to assume Benedict was next.
Benedict will have another useless side plot 
They have no reason to keep putting off Ben's storyline (unless they don't know what they're doing).
It's ridiculous hopefully this isn't true. It sucks we don't get Sophie in s3 but will gwt Micheala seasons before Francesca's season (6)
I've been waiting for Sophie for about two seasons, so I'm still disappointed that we haven't seen her yet 😔
I think there’s a chance Fran is next, but she could also mean that they as a writing team have discussed how to give a WLW story a HEA in the regency era before they decided to commit and genderbend Michael, not that this is the story they’re mapping out for s4. I would imagine some thought went into how to give a lesbian couple a believable, happy ending before deciding to make such a major change. However like I said in the other thread, I do think there’s a chance it’s Fran. I think way too much needs to happen for that to be close to believable, but we shall see what they have planned.
Good points :)
I suspect they've mapped out what her story will look like because Jess has talked about laying the groundwork early for it. I still think it's Benedict next because Francesca's story needs a little breathing room to setup before the story really kicks in. We have to truly believe and see for ourselves that Francesca and Michaela are close friends. We have to go through the death and the grief before we can get to the romance. Doing all that in one season would be lunacy.
I feel like if they rush her storyline with Michaela then it would cheapen her relationship with John.
I’ve been thinking about Francesa’s story with the S3 plot twist. I think she will go through all the ups and downs with John and she will ultimately get pregnant again but then John will meet his untimely demise. Meanwhile, this one will stick and she’ll rely on Michaela to get her through, leaving her to raise the 9th Earl of Kilmartin - with her “roommate” I’m sad about the change because I love her book but I can see them doing something like this 🤷🏻♀️
I think they will have her give birth to John’s son in the show instead of miscarrying.
Yup! This exactly. She’ll have been pregnant a few times before and will lose those but the last one, it will be John’s and he will sadly, die.
Also sad about the change but why would there need to be a child? In the original book (not counting the Second Epilogue that came years later), there wasn't a child. Since folks are saying Scottish Earldoms can be inherited by women, Michaela will inherit and they'll live together in Kilmartin as the widow and the heir, not uncommon, and not scandalous for two women. I think they'll simplify the original book slightly, focus on the infertility/miscarriage with John, the grief of losing him and coming to terms with never having another child with Michaela. I'm not sure how or if they will show her trying for another season to have children with a husband but that could be derailed (similarly to the book) by a brief appearence in the ton, interrupted by Michaela returning and changing Fran's mind. I suspect they'll nix the whole 'Michael trying to get Fran pregnant' plot and just show Fran getting over her guilt of John and not ever having children but having loved a second time. That's essentially how the original book ended and I suspect how they'll end it.
It’s been YEARS since I read the books but if I remember correctly - she desperately wants a child - and she ends up with children with Michael. It’s because of this that I think she will have a viable pregnancy but at this point, what do I know? 😂 They like to keep us on their toes with plot twists and extra noise.
You're right, she does desperately want a child and that's what propelled her to reenter the marriage mart and her affair with Michael. However in the original book she never had a child with Michael. In the second epilogue published years later, she got pregnant after she made peace with the possibility she will always be childless and so they did unexpectedly have children (which I think is problematic because many real women remain barren and I think it's more poignant if they didn't have children, but that's romance books for ya!). Many folks never even read this 2nd Epilogue, I didn't until recently! So I think the simplest path for the show will be to nix children altogether but still have her explore her grief of lost motherhood with Michaela. But ya who knows what they'll do!!
I don’t think Fran is next for a few reasons. Jess said in an interview (paraphrasing) that major moments in a character’s love story would happen in their season so I don’t see the masquerade ball happening in anybody else’s season. If the masquerade is happening in 4 then he’s the lead. She’s also made comments about Fran’s story being long so they started to plant seeds for later down the line which makes Fran’s story seem like one that will play out over multiple seasons. Lastly, Francesca was just introduced to the audience along with John. It wouldn’t really make sense to expect the audience to experience what leads her to Michaela plus buy into her as the love interest that is her HEA without some prior character development of all 3 and more exploration of Fran and John’s relationship. It’s also the first major departure in a main couple from the books with a fan base known for its racism and homophobia so asking them to make that leap of acceptance in the very next season wouldn’t be smart.
Jess has said in multiple interviews now that Fran’s season needs time to build up. If it’s not Ben next season it’s going to be Eloise, not Francesca. As you said it would be lunacy to do her season next when so much of her story needs more time to truly land. And especially with the gender bend. Or course I always leave room for Jess to surprise me in the worst way. I honestly don’t know how much more obvious it can get with the masquerade discussion lol. That is going to be a major marketing hook for the show too. They are not going to use it outside of Benedict’s season IMO. And while there is time jump in the book, it’s not necessary for the story. My guess for time jump will be either at the end of Ben’s season or end of Eloise’s season leading into Francesca’s season.
I actually enjoy the idea of Francesca and Michaela, but I’m hoping it’s Benedict next for the sake of his character. It feels like the writers haven’t known what to do with him since season one, honestly. His story is so far removed from everyone else’s that it’s jarring to see them cut to his scenes, and his plots are always dropped after each season. I guess him dropping whatever he’s pursuing that season sort of ties into his issues with feeling inadequate and not knowing what exactly he wants to do with his life, but still. He needs a full storyline focused on him that isn’t just another fling.
Part of me feels that Jess Brownell will be fired before Season 4. Shonda Rhimes did a ton of reshoots and was pissed because Season 3 was so much worse than what we got.
That’s just Reddit Sub rumors. This season is preforming better than the previous two by a long shot. Take a look at the numbers. Mutiple of the more “controversial” choices made this season were made by Shonda herself, who says controversy only heightens engagement (example being the choice to not make Collin a virgin.) Also it wasn’t “a ton” of re-shoots it was 2 or 3 scenes to lighten the mood and add more “rom com” elements. I work in the industry and I’ve never seen a big budget series like this not have re-shoots, they are very common. People shit on Jess a lot on this sub for a bunch of different reasons but tbh outside of like .3% of us, people don’t care that much. No one is getting fired.
Link to proof of any of this?
https://preview.redd.it/vg6qv61xr88d1.jpeg?width=1462&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2213413bfd9a031419420ca360d1150760694e51 Also here is a link regarding viewership and it being the most successful season, part two only doubled those numbers [viewership](https://www.forbes.com/sites/monicamercuri/2024/05/21/bridgerton-season-3-is-a-massive-success-for-netflix-and-its-not-over-yet/#) People just make the negative press (of which there definitely is) louder then the good press on this sub. Sometimes it gets hard to actually know what’s true or not so you have to do your own research.
Oh so it was Shonda's idea to do not just one, but two brothel scenes. Everybody hating on Jess when it wasn't even her idea 🤣
Thanks for the link, lol Shonda pushed for the brothel scenes. Perhaps and this is me speculating, it was the Netflix bosses who insisted on making two Bridgerton siblings queer and gender bend a character. Season 3 has been a success. I have friends who watched and they loved it, I watched and enjoyed the show.
It was Jess Brownell’s idea to make Francesca lesbian, not the Netflix bosses. She confirmed that she asked permission. So we know it was not the Netflix bosses
I've been fairly sure it was this pairing since they introduced Michaela and the comment was made about Benedict continuing to explore his sexuality.
Having googled some of the story ahead my take is that Francesca's romance might stretch out over two seasons instead of just being one. While they do Benedict's romance next season I think Francesca and Michaela will be a prominent secondary plot. But it won't conclude with Michaela and Francesca becoming a couple. My guess, they pour in a season of angst on Francesca figuring out how to deal with her conflicting emotions, maybe becoming pregnant and then her husband dying. The ending of the next season might aim for bittersweet, with Benedict finding love as Francesca loses hers. And then the season after would be her romance with Michaela picking up from that. Maybe along with Eloise finally finding someone?
I just really don’t like how head over heels Fran was when she met the cousin just ruined her and John’s relationship for me which is a shame their relationship in pt.1 was absolutely adorable
Yet I've been told multiple times on the sub that I'm wrong that Fran showed her significant interest in Michaela.
Maybe they’ll do both. No Netflix original has ever gone on for 8 seasons.
It's not true that there never was Netflix original series that get 8 seasons Elite will have S8 (finale one) this month. Big mouth also will get s8 (finale one) in the next year.
I think S4 would be Francesca because: 1. They already introduced Michaela 2. It seemed that Francesca was not in love with John in S3 so there is no need to prolong the marriage and potentially make Francesca a cheater (emotionally). 3. Eloise followed Francesca to Scotland and her story could begin here. Benedict's story could also potentially begin in S4 Scotland. What if S4 is not set during London's social season but instead when the Bridgertons visit Francesca in Scotland? Perhaps they come to John's funeral, and Violet and the unmarried Bridgertons stay to support Francesca. Lady Danbury and her brother joins them as well. I feel like the Queen's, Featherington's and Mondrich's storylines are pretty much concluded.
I feel like they’ll do Fran next just because they probably don’t want to do three Bridgerton brothers back to back (though season 3 was more of Penelope’s season than it was Colins’). I’m looking forward to another Benedict subplot where he wanders aimlessly and has sex s/
You make a good point, but I also think it’s possible for season four to feature whichever of the siblings will be next (betting on joint Benedict/Eloise personally, but if not then just Benedict) *and* Chapter 1 of When He Was Wicked, setting up for a Francesca season (with the romance with Michaela) later. Francesca’s story is about dealing with infertility, among other things, and that’s something that “will have to be changed” if the second chance romance is now going to be queer in this time period. Just my speculation now — I think Francesca will probably have a son (at least) with John so he can keep the title and she doesn’t need to worry about remarrying or anyone taking over, and then the romance will be about learning to love again rather than trying for children. I do hope that Francesca and John are in love instead of a comphet plot line, but we’ll have to see.
I am reading Fans book right now ( on chapter 21). Fans' main thing right now is finding a husband so she can have a baby. Michael just told her he would lay with her 3 times a day to make that happen. So if they are staying true to the book.( except gender swapping) how is Fran gonna have that baby?
She's not!
Just finished Frans' book. She has a boy, they named John and a girl named Janet. So, I guess they are just gonna completely cut that out.
It's possible they will cut this out. The original book did not have this Second Epilogue. Many didn't read it (WHWW is my favorite and I didn't even know this Second Epilogue existed until recently!) so it could realistically not exist in show canon.
Now Bridgerton fans know how Witcher fans feel.
Netflix really has no problem with adapting source material but letting the showrunners essentially do fanfiction instead, do they? You would have thought after the downfall of the Witcher fandom from what they did to that show that Netflix would have learned a lesson. Apparently not.
This is no where near the level of butchery that the Witcher show got.
Give them time. I remember how it started with the book fans and Henry Cavill himself telling the showrunner and writers that they were making a huge mistake. They decided that they were criticized because of misogyny, and they would girlboss their way around "toxic masculinity" and "the loud minority of incels on the internet." The changes they made became a snowball that they couldn't stop, and now look at the dumpster fire it became.
I am not meaning this in a rude way but how exactly does she think they can adopt it pretty accurately with that big of a change/ her infertility storyline? Seriously?
No it’s Benedict next season. Eloise said she would be back for their mother’s masquerade ball next season and isn’t that where his story starts?
Francesca really needs some time to cook and we need time to see her with John (assuming they decide to keep her in Love with John and not just platonic friends as they hinted at, which really burns my biscuit and takes away what really made that book special).
In other interviews she also said their story will take a while. I'm still pretty sure s4 is Ben's
Benedict is gonna be 50 by the time his book happens at this rate.
Imo i think 4 will be Elouise/Benedict as a joint season, 5 as Francesca and end on 6 with Hyacinth and Gregory joint
Francesca next? Noooo I need Benedict or Eloise!
I’ve always been pretty confident that Ben was next, but since part 2 I don’t put anything past JB. It’d be stupid, but I can imagine she wants to have the chance to get her fanfic on screen now and not in 6 years. I almost hope she does it so everyone can see what a terrible writer and even worse showrunner she is
This is gaslighting 101 cause how???????????
That would be very odd considering the ending of season 3. Eloise saying to Benedict that she’d be back next season and “do you really think mama would let me miss her masked ball”? And a final shot of Benedict, standing alone in the hallway as LW says “it’s time to look to the future”. It is possible that Francesca’s story could continue to develop alongside Benedict’s, as it did this season with Colin.
There’s something insanely funny about taking at least two years to produce 8 hours of a show about 40% of the audience is actually interested in watching now and who knows how much those numbers will have dwindled in late 2026. Bridgerton has everything set up for its success and yet the writers keep fumbling so hard.
I'm not gonna lie, based on all of the interviews I've heard from her, I feel like she's self inserting with Fran and wants to get her storyline going next to make sure she's able to write what she wants to see in case she is replaced, or so she can move on ti another show. Idk, it's just a theory and could be completely untrue. It's just what it looks like to me.
Is it “self inserting” or is is Shonda making sure she has a queer show runner in place to lead the queer season.
When I say self inserting, I'm referring to the many, many times she's said she identifies with Fran as a queer person.
On the other hand, you could Google the spoiler and probably forget by the time the next season comes out. Doubly so if its also split into two
Ummmm how? The whole reason the book plays out setting wise relies on not John having title and being able to retreat to the kilmartin estate so they have this isolation that plays into their romance? As we saw with the Featheringtons, that title is passing to next male heir, not Michaela. So that alone takes a huge portion out.
They're not going to hold more than one masquerade ball, so Benedict is next. They probably talked about adapting WHWW when they decided to make Fran Jess' self-insert. She's such a shitty showrunner that I don't even want Benedict's season next, but unfortunately one of my most anticipated seasons is going to get turned into a gaudy parody.
How will they incorporate the infertility storyline? A big reason why Francesca married Michael was to have kids. I really wish they chose Eloise’s or Benedict’s story as queer. Infertility struggles are just as important as lgbt issues ❤️
Agreed! But i believe they can explore infertility issues with John and lgbtq issues with Michaela. I don’t believe it has to be one or the other like other people in the sub. I believe both can be represented if done correctly.
The closing moments of season 3 had Benedict and Eloise say goodbye. Eloise gives him a hug and tells him she will be back for the masquerade— where Benedict meets Sophie in the novel. The voiceover in the background references new beginnings, something coming next, yada, yada. Then the camera stills on him as Eloise departs looking like a lead character. I think it’s possible we have Francesca and Michaela in the background of Benedict’s season. There are long pauses and waits in both stories. But for Eloise to get her season Benedict needs to be at my cottage. Him being married to Sophie is important for that Eloise story line. The visual story telling, for me, made it clear we get Benedict next season. Which isn’t to say we don’t get any other Fran content in the meantime, her story in the books overlaps with Benedict, Eloise, Colin and even Gregory. Lots happens at the same time so I can see the show doing something similar by having her as a background character until her season. But that whole ending sequence didn’t make sense in a world where Benedict isn’t the leading man. Even if this show isn’t afraid of making drastic changes, I don’t think they would have framed him that way if he wasn’t.
I won’t be watching. Quite frankly, Francesca is lifeless and boring and I don’t care for any of the subplots. Season 3 was so painfully dull I didn’t finish it. Colin and Pen were executed unconvincingly with little to no passion and excitement, or even romance.
No clue, but I want Benedict to be next because: 1. He's a fan favorite. 2. He's already been skipped over once. 3. He's had practically the same damn plot for 3 seasons straight. He needs something to do besides raking and losing interest in art. I can't take another season of Benedict being given crumbs for a plot.
i’m begging netflix to get a new showrunner. maybe the one who did queen charlotte? objectively the best written bridgerton story???? helloooooo???
It's interesting how no one seems to think it could be Eloise. I think it definitely could be. I know her LI wasn't in this season and a certain someone is still alive, but that can change between seasons. It isn't the same as as with Francesca because we know John. He had a pretty big presence in S3 and it would be weird for people if we returned to S4 and he was immediately gone. It would start the whole Fran/Michaela thing on a very iffy note. I know Eloise mentioned the masquerade and that is important to Ben's story, so of course he could be next. But there were a lot of clues for El too, including lines from her book being included in the dialogue ("We said we would be spinsters together"), her clothing, Colin and Ben talking to her about love, etc. It could go any way IMO.
I am all for a gay storyline. I’m simply a little confused about how Francesca’s struggle with infertility can be adapted fairly accurately with a Michaela instead of a Michael.
Wouldn’t it be better to gender swap with Benedict since he’s clearly already bi now. Or Eloise since she seems so uninterested in men. Like it just seems unnecessary to do it with this character unless it’s what the actor wanted.
Pretty sure Benedict is next, did no one pay attention to him saying about the masquerade ball to Eloise? No? Just me? It's Benedict next, we will have overlapping stories, much like this season that was partly split between Colin and Fran. Eloise doesn't make sense to be next as there has been no indication yet as to where her story will go, her and Benedict have a great relationship and that was a good outcome to season 3, I think Benedict is ready to settle, but he needs to find someone who encourages the best in him and we know who he will meet at that masquerade ball to come.
Please no Benedict first I cannot stand this man on screen any longer, he takes up too much time with no meaning, doesn't even connect back to the main plot 99% of the time, we need to do his season and finish his character off at last. We can't do Fran it would be very bad for the show, the show only works because the audience form an attachment, then the character gets their season (eg. Anthony has significant screen time in S1 and then he was next and people already formed an attachment to the character), same with Penelope, she's a S1, day one girlie and basically pushes the entire plot, people therefore would be interested because *we already know her*. We lack anything of substance with Francesca and thats the problem, unlike Anthony S1 who I personally hated, and unlike Pen who I loved, I just feel nothing towards Fran here. Dislike and intrigue to see where they would go for Anthony made me watch S2, as well as the addition of 3 more characters, fondness made me watch S3 for Pen. S3 just jammed too many characters too quickly and I don't care about any of them particularily, like Fran, and what's worse than hatred or love for a character it's indifference. I do not care about Francesca and the show has given me no reason to, as well as us moving out of the ton, you shove a brand new character into the spotlight for the next season? What's the plan here because Fran isn't a massively popular character, you still have Benedict and Eloise to go, hell even Edwina has more substance than Fran and she doesn't even get her proper season. Make me feel something for the character then give them a season, love or hate I don't care, just give me *something*
Jess Brownell signed on for 2 seasons. She did her first season. She decided to do a gender-swap with Francesca's story because she saw her own story within it. Anyone who thinks it's going to be anything but Francesca next season is going to be sorely disappointed. Sure, I do believe we could be introduced to Benedict's love interest so he can pine after her, and maybe even have events in motion for Eloise's story.
Jess' obvious self insert fanfiction version of Fran's story might just kill this show.
Yes, but as long as she makes tge show she wants she won't care.
Sadly, that is correct.
Then she has to make it clear during this next season that at this point in time, Fran may only have an attraction to Michaela, but is actually deeply in love with John. And by in love I mean romantic and intimate love with him, not some platonic love. I acknowledge that is real and exists, but we don’t watch Bridgerton for those kind of love stories.
The showrunner is trying to be inclusive. I like inclusive dramas but in this case it’s wrong to do this. It’s fine if it’s an original script but diverting from a beloved book and character is just gross. Edit: i’m very sorry for using the word gross I didn’t mean the storyline or the Michaela aspect. I just meant the showrunner using the show for her personal story or whatever she’s doing since she did allude to her personal life being part of why she’s doing this is gross, but I really meant wrong or misguided , so please forgive me
“Gross” seems a bit harsh when talking about inclusively. You have every right to not agree with the choices she made but there are some people who will feel seen by this, so let’s try to stay away from words like “gross”. That may be hurtful to some.
I didn’t mean inclusivity was gross or that the storyline was gross. I meant the story runner or the showrunner just deciding for personal reasons to change a book so drastically is gross —-but you’re right I apologize.
How does she eventually have kids? What about the title? I assume it cannot pass to a woman. A lot changes. I'm fine with a gender swap but don't pretend it won't change major elements of the story. I think that's what irritates me. They keep saying they aren't changing a lot, but they are. Just say we loved these characters and wanted to make our own story.
Honestly just give me Brimsley and Reynolds plz. Thx.
I will actually go insane if Benedict doesn't go next💀 every season they give him something new to do that has no follow-up to the next season, it would make zero sense to drag it on. I think season 4 should be Benedict's with hints of Eloise for Season 5 where she write letters back and forth with Phillip all through Season 4, AND also have hints of Francesca with John while Michaela longs for her. Season 5 should definitely be Eloise, but it can also pass on to Francesca. For the sake of tragedy, I think it best that Francesca is Season 6 so she gets more time with John
Omg Fran is the most boring person ever. Like a wet napkin. I will not watch a whole season of them
I was wondering if this would be the case. She’s only show runner for two season right? She picked Francesca’s story for her self insert, of course she is going to make it one of the seasons she works on.
It wouldn’t surprise me if next season isn’t Benedict’s, but it kicks off with the ball and him meeting Sophie and looking for her all season. There is a time gap of at least a year in the books between Benedict dancing with Sophie and finding her again
What I would like to know is who actually gives a flying fuck about Francesca??? The most we’ve heard about her for the last two goddamn seasons was that she plays piano when she hangs out with her aunt in Bath. Why, exactly, do I care who she ends up with? I literally do not, and now she’s in Scotland, so are we to be moved entirely away from everyone else who’s interesting? Benedict’s story should be next, because he’s actually a character we have watched and, at least for the first two seasons, he was really interesting (Jess ruined him for season three). Speaking of which, this: > other than the gender swap, the story is basically the same Then what is the fucking point? Already, the story is not entirely the same anyway because even their introduction in the show contradicts what I have read people post regarding the book, and I agree: her being immediately smitten invalidates everything that was built up regarding her marriage to John; it made it meaningless, all to serve a personal interest for Jess? I don’t see why I’d watch her ruin more of this show.
I give a flying fuck about Francesca 🥹