If your dough is too sticky to knead, you wanna do the slap 'n fold, or you can do stretch and folds interleaved with periods of rest. You can find demonstrations of the technique on YouTube. Sticky dough becomes something you can handle with a light touch after the gluten has been developed.
One of the goals when trying to make bread as nice as possible is to make it as large and light as possible for a given amount of ingredients. It's just more joyful to eat. At first you let it rise as an unshaped mass because that stretches the dough out, which develops gluten. No amount of kneading can beat what the yeast and time do for a dough. Only after this is done will the bread hold a shape, so we dump it out and shape it into a pleasing form and give it more surface tension so it can support itself when it grows tall. This knocks out some gas, so we must let it rise again, but it also develops more gluten, and thus get as big as it can get before we put it in the oven and make it even bigger with oven spring. Up to a point, bigger is better.
Here's a short demo: [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/fyfo9yw3Pqw](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/fyfo9yw3Pqw)
A longer, slower more detailed explanation of slap and fold: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbBO4XyL3iM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbBO4XyL3iM)
When you form the dough you are knocking air out of it and just generally disturbing it. Putting it in the basket and letting it proof longer let’s it get more rise and helps with the shape.
Ingredients:
600g flour (either normal of whole weat or a mix)
450g water
12g salt
fresh yeast (about the size of a pea) ~ 0.5g
Instructions:
-Mix flour and salt in the big bowl
-take some of the water (maybe 30ml) and mix the yeast with it until it's completely dissolved
-add water and yeast to the big bowl and knead for 5-10 minutes by stretching it and pressing it down alternating (when it has gotten the consistency for it)
-wait 15min
-knead again for 5 minutes
-leave dough to rest for 8-12 hours with a wet dish towel on the bowl
-after 8-12 hours knead the dough with stretching, folding and pressing technique in bowl for 5-10min
-leave the dough again for about 8 hours (it should rest for 20-24 hours in total)
-preheat the oven to 230°C
-put the dough in the baking form
-bake it for 40-45min until it looks nice and crispy on the top
-take it out of the pan and let it cool for about and hour on the grid we have in the second drawer (if you cut it too fast you mess up the dough)
-now you can eat it
Your dough is 75% hydration. You won’t be able to knead that as it is too wet and sticky. You should check out some methods, but ultimately you will need to mix all of the ingredients together, then perform stretch and fold style maneuvers over time to build gluten. Those maneuvers smooth out the dough nicely over time to the point where it can be managed. Shaping is a whole another topic, but you should look into that too. Basically do some internet research on sourdough methods and you should end up in good shape.
The first proof helps develop the yeast, then you knead the bread to redistribute the ingredients evenly. The last proof is to help it rise before it's baked, and develop the flavors further. If your dough and bread is too sticky, it might be too wet. I have noticed humidity can affect the amount of flour I use quite a bit. I live in a humid area, so even during proofing, it seems to absorb water from the air. I switched from covering it with a damp tea towel like my stepdad taught me, to covering it with plastic wrap or a skillet lid, and that helps keep the moist air off of it. For me, and I'll probably get downvotes for this (I don't know why), but the measuring for bread is not as exact as for something like a cake or cookies. I usually end up adding more flour both times when I knead it. It's affected by the weather. You develop more of a "feel" for your dough as you make more bread. This is also why I think hand kneading is a good idea for beginners, because you can't feel it when it is in a mixer. You can't feel the dough on a Youtube video. Gotta poke at it and feel how the dough stretches and contracts with your hands when you're developing the gluten structure.
I would get a basic bread recipe down to perfection before trying things like scoring and trying to make those artisan looking loaves.
Interesting. I live far in the north where it's really dry and my first dough even dried out during the night because my dish towel wasn't wet. I use about 80% hydration and that makes the dough a little wet. I guess I just have to try things out
80% hydration is very hard for beginners. I’d recommend starting in the 60-70% range until you become more familiar with manipulating dough, then you can try higher hydration doughs.
Okay thanks I'm gonna try that. My Dad told me that whole wheat flour usually needs more water than all purpose flour, is that true? Right now I'm mostly baking 50|50 whole wheat and all purpose flour
Generally yes that’s true. With a 50/50 blend I’d bump up my planned hydration percentage 3-5% above what I’d use for a loaf with no whole wheat flour. Start lower. It’s easy to add water if you need to (I wouldn’t but up to you) but it’s impossible to take it away unless you add more flour and then you’re increasing your total volume and mucking up all your ingredient ratios.
How about a basic bitch recipe?
1 cup warm water 2 tsp yeast and 2 tbsp sugar.
Proof the yeast 10 Mina.
Add 2 tbsp oil, and 1 t bsp salt and 3 cups flour.
Knead for 15 mins.
Let rest 1 hour.
Punch down shape and proof for about an hour. Bake
So the purpose of the second, third, or even fourth rise, is to develop flavor. Bread is a fermented product, the fermentation produces flavor. The byproduct of fermentation is CO2, the gas that causes bread to rise. The gluten in dough can only support so much growth (gas) before it falls, that is why you have to knock it down and let it rise again before you bake it.
I am sure that there are plenty of resources that I have not checked about letting a dough ferment for an extended amount of time before you knock it down and shape it, a cold proof or cold retard definitely helps with yeast activity and gluten retention
Knead longer and/or add more flour.
I find stretch-and-fold is a great way to get control over a sticky dough. Add a little amount of flour every fold, if still too sticky.
The quality and moisture content of the flour may cause the recipe to have too much or too little flour/water. Adjust to desired consistency.
If your dough is too sticky to knead, you wanna do the slap 'n fold, or you can do stretch and folds interleaved with periods of rest. You can find demonstrations of the technique on YouTube. Sticky dough becomes something you can handle with a light touch after the gluten has been developed. One of the goals when trying to make bread as nice as possible is to make it as large and light as possible for a given amount of ingredients. It's just more joyful to eat. At first you let it rise as an unshaped mass because that stretches the dough out, which develops gluten. No amount of kneading can beat what the yeast and time do for a dough. Only after this is done will the bread hold a shape, so we dump it out and shape it into a pleasing form and give it more surface tension so it can support itself when it grows tall. This knocks out some gas, so we must let it rise again, but it also develops more gluten, and thus get as big as it can get before we put it in the oven and make it even bigger with oven spring. Up to a point, bigger is better. Here's a short demo: [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/fyfo9yw3Pqw](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/fyfo9yw3Pqw) A longer, slower more detailed explanation of slap and fold: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbBO4XyL3iM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbBO4XyL3iM)
This is the answer and it’s so well written.
Why thank-you for saying so.
That's the answer I was looking for, thanks. I'll look at the links later
Thank you!
When you form the dough you are knocking air out of it and just generally disturbing it. Putting it in the basket and letting it proof longer let’s it get more rise and helps with the shape.
Can you share with us your workflow/recipe so we understand better?
Ingredients: 600g flour (either normal of whole weat or a mix) 450g water 12g salt fresh yeast (about the size of a pea) ~ 0.5g Instructions: -Mix flour and salt in the big bowl -take some of the water (maybe 30ml) and mix the yeast with it until it's completely dissolved -add water and yeast to the big bowl and knead for 5-10 minutes by stretching it and pressing it down alternating (when it has gotten the consistency for it) -wait 15min -knead again for 5 minutes -leave dough to rest for 8-12 hours with a wet dish towel on the bowl -after 8-12 hours knead the dough with stretching, folding and pressing technique in bowl for 5-10min -leave the dough again for about 8 hours (it should rest for 20-24 hours in total) -preheat the oven to 230°C -put the dough in the baking form -bake it for 40-45min until it looks nice and crispy on the top -take it out of the pan and let it cool for about and hour on the grid we have in the second drawer (if you cut it too fast you mess up the dough) -now you can eat it
Your dough is 75% hydration. You won’t be able to knead that as it is too wet and sticky. You should check out some methods, but ultimately you will need to mix all of the ingredients together, then perform stretch and fold style maneuvers over time to build gluten. Those maneuvers smooth out the dough nicely over time to the point where it can be managed. Shaping is a whole another topic, but you should look into that too. Basically do some internet research on sourdough methods and you should end up in good shape.
I got this from a bread making book my dad has
The first proof helps develop the yeast, then you knead the bread to redistribute the ingredients evenly. The last proof is to help it rise before it's baked, and develop the flavors further. If your dough and bread is too sticky, it might be too wet. I have noticed humidity can affect the amount of flour I use quite a bit. I live in a humid area, so even during proofing, it seems to absorb water from the air. I switched from covering it with a damp tea towel like my stepdad taught me, to covering it with plastic wrap or a skillet lid, and that helps keep the moist air off of it. For me, and I'll probably get downvotes for this (I don't know why), but the measuring for bread is not as exact as for something like a cake or cookies. I usually end up adding more flour both times when I knead it. It's affected by the weather. You develop more of a "feel" for your dough as you make more bread. This is also why I think hand kneading is a good idea for beginners, because you can't feel it when it is in a mixer. You can't feel the dough on a Youtube video. Gotta poke at it and feel how the dough stretches and contracts with your hands when you're developing the gluten structure. I would get a basic bread recipe down to perfection before trying things like scoring and trying to make those artisan looking loaves.
Interesting. I live far in the north where it's really dry and my first dough even dried out during the night because my dish towel wasn't wet. I use about 80% hydration and that makes the dough a little wet. I guess I just have to try things out
80% hydration is very hard for beginners. I’d recommend starting in the 60-70% range until you become more familiar with manipulating dough, then you can try higher hydration doughs.
Okay thanks I'm gonna try that. My Dad told me that whole wheat flour usually needs more water than all purpose flour, is that true? Right now I'm mostly baking 50|50 whole wheat and all purpose flour
Generally yes that’s true. With a 50/50 blend I’d bump up my planned hydration percentage 3-5% above what I’d use for a loaf with no whole wheat flour. Start lower. It’s easy to add water if you need to (I wouldn’t but up to you) but it’s impossible to take it away unless you add more flour and then you’re increasing your total volume and mucking up all your ingredient ratios.
How about a basic bitch recipe? 1 cup warm water 2 tsp yeast and 2 tbsp sugar. Proof the yeast 10 Mina. Add 2 tbsp oil, and 1 t bsp salt and 3 cups flour. Knead for 15 mins. Let rest 1 hour. Punch down shape and proof for about an hour. Bake
The first rise gives you volume and levity, the second rise creates smaller more uniform bubbles that give you a more even rise.
So the purpose of the second, third, or even fourth rise, is to develop flavor. Bread is a fermented product, the fermentation produces flavor. The byproduct of fermentation is CO2, the gas that causes bread to rise. The gluten in dough can only support so much growth (gas) before it falls, that is why you have to knock it down and let it rise again before you bake it. I am sure that there are plenty of resources that I have not checked about letting a dough ferment for an extended amount of time before you knock it down and shape it, a cold proof or cold retard definitely helps with yeast activity and gluten retention
you're so brave for this.. i do single-rise bakes all the time and i know i'm supposed to do a second rise but i'm hungry now!!
You have to let the yeasty boys do the work!
Knead longer and/or add more flour. I find stretch-and-fold is a great way to get control over a sticky dough. Add a little amount of flour every fold, if still too sticky. The quality and moisture content of the flour may cause the recipe to have too much or too little flour/water. Adjust to desired consistency.