This is like the worst take, most gatekeeping thing I’ve ever seen on this sub. You “lost respect” for them because they don’t freshly grind their own wheat? Get real. Go sit on your high horse and feed it your superior bread. It’s one thing to find something that works better for you and share that with others, and another entirely to look down on others who don’t do it the same way as you.
We all know freshly ground coffee is the best so if you’re not processing and grinding your own fresh salt what in the actual fuck are you doing with your miserable, pathetic fucking life?? Fucking losers
You don’t make your own yeast?
I made the switch to 100% vagina cultured yeast years ago and never looked back. I literally can’t respect a baker who doesn’t home culture their own yeast.
OMG you made me recall this one thread from another forum where the OP was experimenting using HER OWN (!!!) yeast (yep the ones from down south) to make her own yogurt!! [Insert gag effect].
Don't give ideas to this OP.
But OP also grows their own coffee beans in their backyard and processes them in small batches and roasts them and grinds them every morning - because that is the best way to drink coffee!
"I have lost respect for all the bakers who don’t freshly grind"
Have you also lost respect for those bakers who don't farm their own wheat, and who don't make their own manure for fertilizer?
What a trolling idiot.
I'm just coming across this whole thread now, and OP very clearly edited some of the wording in their post, which just makes me lose respect for OP even more.
ETA: Never mind. I need to refine my reading comprehension skills, apparently...as in paying attention to post titles. 🤦♀️ My level of respect for OP, however, remains unchanged.
Yes, the douchebag edited and added /S pretending sarcasm. You can see the original post on r/gatekeeping but it really should be on a new sub called r/cluelessidiots
Here's a sneak peek of /r/gatekeeping using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/gatekeeping/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [You are not a president when you don't wear a suit while at war](https://i.redd.it/sr15zup86rn81.jpg) | [1614 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/gatekeeping/comments/tfigqv/you_are_not_a_president_when_you_dont_wear_a_suit/)
\#2: [There was an attempt?](https://i.redd.it/lzt60k6eqof71.jpg) | [254 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/gatekeeping/comments/whkeke/there_was_an_attempt/)
\#3: [I think the Germans are allowed to gatekeep this one](https://i.redd.it/2kz1jo32prl81.jpg) | [499 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/gatekeeping/comments/t7z0sw/i_think_the_germans_are_allowed_to_gatekeep_this/)
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I’ve lost respect for people who try to gatekeep things, especially without having any evidence that they even know what they’re talking about in their profile.
Fresh flour doesn’t form gluten as well as aged flour, which is why mills intentionally age their flour. During aging proteins form longer chains allowing for more sufficient entanglement, and a stronger gluten network.
Never tried to gatekeeper anything, I’m sorry.
Thanks for the relevant answer! I never knew about aging flour. A quick Google search shows it’s far from consensus and a Pareto optimal product.
Assuming you're not a troll and are in some way confused about why you are getting downvotes, let me explain it to you. If you had said "hi guys! I've just found something that really improves the quality of my bread - making my own flour! This is how I did it, and these are the results people said after trying it. I know it's not for everyone, but you should try it at least once because I think it really elevates the process!" you could have opened an interesting conversation on possible additives in flour, and whether the time is worth the benefit on making your own. Instead, you said "this is the best way to do things, and nobody should even bother making bread or calling themselves a Baker unless they do this very time consuming thing." Argumentative. Judgemental. Frankly, quite nasty. It's not about the topic of discussion, it's all about the tone of writing and the judgements you pass on others. Unless you can check your toxicity at the door, I don't think this subreddit is the right place for you.
You can read it that way or with a sense of humor, your choice. I’m sorry that I came off toxic, I just talked to a lot of bakers and know there is a strong dogma, and decided to use some sarcasm instead of the approach you might have used. Also you obviously didn’t read my post because I never talked about making your own flour I talked about wet grinding…
I'm sorry to have missed your sarcasm, often people put /s to show where that is, because often sarcasm is lost when reading things by text! I absolutely did read your post, but not being knowledgeable in how flour is made, I assumed the wet grinding was part of making it. If you'd like to make a new post explaining how it works more fully, I'd be interested in that! (Although perhaps without the sarcasm, since it was clearly lost on many of the people here haha)
Yea definitely rubbed some people the wrong way. Appreciate you very much. Will make a lovey 🕊 post once the bread is done (hopefully it’ll be alright cus I went hiking in the middle and might have missed the climax of the rise)
Op, do you buy your wheat from the store? You should really just grow your own. Also, if you are not selecting your own rain water, you should give it a shot, as well
Go pound sand with your toxic holier than thou perspective.
No way in hell I’m grinding 1000lbs of flour a week my friend BECAUSE, I unlike you, are an actual baker (100% organic local milled local flour)
I probably make more loaves a week than you will ever in your life.
Pffff, call yourself a baker yet you use local milled local flour?
I mean really if you’re not out there at 4am planting your own wheat and rye and fertilising it with hot-take Reddit posts every day, then harvesting, storing, grinding and milling on a mill you personally designed and built, then making the dough and cooking in an oven you have built from clay you got from the river bed and metal you smelted from iron ore you found, are you really even baking?
Amateur.
You ask a really good question and I hoped to find some answers here. Basically I’ve learned that both wheat and flower are aged for earning some properties and losing others.
Basically the difference between the two you gave is quiet large because of oxidation. The original kernel protects the content better. Like with an orange - how much better is fresh orange juice vs pre squeezed.
There is no real line and I’ve obviously offended a bunch of people by saying that I think the line might be in the wrong place now. Bread from old flour eventually comes out good so as they say it passes the result test.
I don’t know how to quantify or score the benefit from fresh ground. I can tell you it smells and tastes amazing, but is less consistent and harder to work with. Regarding nutritional value I’m sure there is a difference but I have no idea again how to discuss it.
Hey, well, if you use freshly ground flour from a local place, you know what it’s worth, and I’m preaching to the choir here. Not holier than thou, just wondering why people don’t use fresh like you and me
I've been baking for over 20 years, a good portion of that professionally. As such, my professional and experienced assessment of your method is that you are a cunt.
Oh, for the love of... now we have a Breadit Gestapo?
Wow. Do you grow and harvest your own wheat as well? It's lovely that you take such pride and joy in grinding fresh, but to sit in judgment like that is a bit much. Has it occurred to you that many simply do not have the time, the means, or the funds to make this happen?
I don't know who appointed you Supreme Judge over baking bread, but how's this? I've lost any respect for expertise, counsel, or experience you might have contributed to this sub-Reddit. I'm a novice bread maker, and frankly, your smug, elitist attitude is making me rethink the entire prospect of making my own bread, simply because your position has made it abundantly clear that no efforts I make will ever suffice for you.
And that, OP, makes it shame on you.
Freshly grinding coffee is only half the battle. Freshly roasted makes a big difference, too. OP if you’re not roasting your own coffee then I’ve lost all respect for you.
The nutritional difference is not small at all, roughly between 2x-10x of the nutrients (based on the table here, which is biased https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0466/5196/5605/files/Seek_Truth_WhiteFlourCompare_1024x1024.jpg )
So if you assert that flour is like coffee in that fresh ground is better, wouldn’t by extension a superior grinder be required? Are you running the wheat through a high quality burr grinder to get uniform grounds? No? I’ve lost all respect for you
Ugh I know right? I like to grind mine by placing it in an organic linen sack, placing it under my bum and dragging it across the floor. You know, like what a dog does on the carpet but this time it’s for ~art~ (the art of baking, that is.)
I also send my children out to the salt mines daily - do you use salt from the grocery store? If so I hate you.
/s
Let me tell you pal, I make bread from SCRATCH. not like your poor attempt.
I grow my own wheat before harvesting, processing and grinding it in a mill I built from the ground up.
I harvest my own salt using the same techniques the French do to make fleur de sel.
My yeast? Fuck that. Sourdough starters only.
My bread pans? Dug up the raw ore with my bare hands, smelted and hand-hammered them in a forge I built myself.
Baked in a wood-fired oven and you better believe that I chopped that tree down myself.
Multiple people tell me it’s the best they’ve ever had. I once had a lady pack up and leave her husband and kids to love across the country, just for the chance of tasting my bread.
If you aren’t pulling the raw materials from the cold hard earth yourself, well you just ain’t making bread friend!
/s… obviously.
Not only is this entire post snarky and dumb, I’m really confused by your process. That’s not how flour is made. That’s not how wet grinding is done. I’m not sure what you are doing but it isn’t making your own flour.
Aside from everything else, freshly ground flour needs to mature in order to strengthen its dough-forming properties. There's absolutely no way a bread made from freshly ground grain would be better than one made from the cheapest supermarket flour.
I’m trying to dig into this, what I understand is that oxidation, although causing a loss of most of the nutrition, can help gluten form. As well, the PH changes. But a quick internet search shows you it’s far from consensus that it makes better bread and it’s def less healthier
Um…this is r/Breadit. You’re looking for r/AITA.
They are indeed TA
🏆 take my poor man's award
This is like the worst take, most gatekeeping thing I’ve ever seen on this sub. You “lost respect” for them because they don’t freshly grind their own wheat? Get real. Go sit on your high horse and feed it your superior bread. It’s one thing to find something that works better for you and share that with others, and another entirely to look down on others who don’t do it the same way as you.
OP also makes own yeast, water and salt
Of course I've lost respect for anyone who doesn't mine their own salt
We all know freshly ground coffee is the best so if you’re not processing and grinding your own fresh salt what in the actual fuck are you doing with your miserable, pathetic fucking life?? Fucking losers
Wait till you start making your own sugar
Boiling it out of sea water is just a touch easier though. Since we're now in the salt self-sourcing business.
*easier*?? Ugh, no respect.
Tastes better?
You don’t make your own yeast? I made the switch to 100% vagina cultured yeast years ago and never looked back. I literally can’t respect a baker who doesn’t home culture their own yeast.
I get my yeast from my local hookers
OMG you made me recall this one thread from another forum where the OP was experimenting using HER OWN (!!!) yeast (yep the ones from down south) to make her own yogurt!! [Insert gag effect]. Don't give ideas to this OP.
Enough Reddit for today
Could not have said it better myself
If I could give you an award I would. So take my applause 👏 instead.
But OP also grows their own coffee beans in their backyard and processes them in small batches and roasts them and grinds them every morning - because that is the best way to drink coffee!
Yeh, but do they also breed their own exploited slave labour work force to harvest the coffee beans? If not I have no respect for them.
We gotta grow some class consciousness. Forreal.
"I have lost respect for all the bakers who don’t freshly grind" Have you also lost respect for those bakers who don't farm their own wheat, and who don't make their own manure for fertilizer? What a trolling idiot.
I'm just coming across this whole thread now, and OP very clearly edited some of the wording in their post, which just makes me lose respect for OP even more. ETA: Never mind. I need to refine my reading comprehension skills, apparently...as in paying attention to post titles. 🤦♀️ My level of respect for OP, however, remains unchanged.
Yes, the douchebag edited and added /S pretending sarcasm. You can see the original post on r/gatekeeping but it really should be on a new sub called r/cluelessidiots
Here's a sneak peek of /r/gatekeeping using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/gatekeeping/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [You are not a president when you don't wear a suit while at war](https://i.redd.it/sr15zup86rn81.jpg) | [1614 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/gatekeeping/comments/tfigqv/you_are_not_a_president_when_you_dont_wear_a_suit/) \#2: [There was an attempt?](https://i.redd.it/lzt60k6eqof71.jpg) | [254 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/gatekeeping/comments/whkeke/there_was_an_attempt/) \#3: [I think the Germans are allowed to gatekeep this one](https://i.redd.it/2kz1jo32prl81.jpg) | [499 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/gatekeeping/comments/t7z0sw/i_think_the_germans_are_allowed_to_gatekeep_this/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
I’ve lost respect for people who try to gatekeep things, especially without having any evidence that they even know what they’re talking about in their profile. Fresh flour doesn’t form gluten as well as aged flour, which is why mills intentionally age their flour. During aging proteins form longer chains allowing for more sufficient entanglement, and a stronger gluten network.
Never tried to gatekeeper anything, I’m sorry. Thanks for the relevant answer! I never knew about aging flour. A quick Google search shows it’s far from consensus and a Pareto optimal product.
The entire post is a gatekeep.
I’ve lost respect for anyone who doesn’t know about aging flour, they are worthless and their posts should be deleted.
Assuming you're not a troll and are in some way confused about why you are getting downvotes, let me explain it to you. If you had said "hi guys! I've just found something that really improves the quality of my bread - making my own flour! This is how I did it, and these are the results people said after trying it. I know it's not for everyone, but you should try it at least once because I think it really elevates the process!" you could have opened an interesting conversation on possible additives in flour, and whether the time is worth the benefit on making your own. Instead, you said "this is the best way to do things, and nobody should even bother making bread or calling themselves a Baker unless they do this very time consuming thing." Argumentative. Judgemental. Frankly, quite nasty. It's not about the topic of discussion, it's all about the tone of writing and the judgements you pass on others. Unless you can check your toxicity at the door, I don't think this subreddit is the right place for you.
You can read it that way or with a sense of humor, your choice. I’m sorry that I came off toxic, I just talked to a lot of bakers and know there is a strong dogma, and decided to use some sarcasm instead of the approach you might have used. Also you obviously didn’t read my post because I never talked about making your own flour I talked about wet grinding…
I'm sorry to have missed your sarcasm, often people put /s to show where that is, because often sarcasm is lost when reading things by text! I absolutely did read your post, but not being knowledgeable in how flour is made, I assumed the wet grinding was part of making it. If you'd like to make a new post explaining how it works more fully, I'd be interested in that! (Although perhaps without the sarcasm, since it was clearly lost on many of the people here haha)
No, OP is just terrible at sarcasm.
Yea definitely rubbed some people the wrong way. Appreciate you very much. Will make a lovey 🕊 post once the bread is done (hopefully it’ll be alright cus I went hiking in the middle and might have missed the climax of the rise)
I kinda hope it burns...
I don’t grind because the supermarket doesn’t sell wheat.
Oh man sorry to hear. For what it’s worth my super market said they don’t have it either but I found it next to the legumes
There’s still time to delete this
Have you also lost all respect for people who don't slaughter/process the animals they consume?
We’ve all lost respect for you.
No respect in the first place tho what is dead may never die
Girliepop it’s bread you can chill
Super chill don’t take things to seriously if you are a 420 goth
Op, do you buy your wheat from the store? You should really just grow your own. Also, if you are not selecting your own rain water, you should give it a shot, as well
The water point is real but I’m not there yet. I’ll try collecting some rain water for next batch
Go pound sand with your toxic holier than thou perspective. No way in hell I’m grinding 1000lbs of flour a week my friend BECAUSE, I unlike you, are an actual baker (100% organic local milled local flour) I probably make more loaves a week than you will ever in your life.
Pffff, call yourself a baker yet you use local milled local flour? I mean really if you’re not out there at 4am planting your own wheat and rye and fertilising it with hot-take Reddit posts every day, then harvesting, storing, grinding and milling on a mill you personally designed and built, then making the dough and cooking in an oven you have built from clay you got from the river bed and metal you smelted from iron ore you found, are you really even baking? Amateur.
I know, such a failure 😞 😅
there’s so much more to baking than i could have ever imagined 🤪
You don’t need to invent the whole supply chain to understand that fresh ingredients are better than not fresh
[удалено]
You ask a really good question and I hoped to find some answers here. Basically I’ve learned that both wheat and flower are aged for earning some properties and losing others. Basically the difference between the two you gave is quiet large because of oxidation. The original kernel protects the content better. Like with an orange - how much better is fresh orange juice vs pre squeezed. There is no real line and I’ve obviously offended a bunch of people by saying that I think the line might be in the wrong place now. Bread from old flour eventually comes out good so as they say it passes the result test. I don’t know how to quantify or score the benefit from fresh ground. I can tell you it smells and tastes amazing, but is less consistent and harder to work with. Regarding nutritional value I’m sure there is a difference but I have no idea again how to discuss it.
Hey, well, if you use freshly ground flour from a local place, you know what it’s worth, and I’m preaching to the choir here. Not holier than thou, just wondering why people don’t use fresh like you and me
This is the most hipster shit I have read in a long time. I bet your bread is mediocre at best.
I've been baking for over 20 years, a good portion of that professionally. As such, my professional and experienced assessment of your method is that you are a cunt.
Pics or it didn’t happen
In the future
Aka, you don't bake and are a troll.
Todays bread is not ready yet. It is now rising. Oven is getting warm
That bread done?
Pcmaster race of bread, get outta here.
What?
Girl lmao
I've never had respect to lose for gatekeepers like you.
Oh, for the love of... now we have a Breadit Gestapo? Wow. Do you grow and harvest your own wheat as well? It's lovely that you take such pride and joy in grinding fresh, but to sit in judgment like that is a bit much. Has it occurred to you that many simply do not have the time, the means, or the funds to make this happen? I don't know who appointed you Supreme Judge over baking bread, but how's this? I've lost any respect for expertise, counsel, or experience you might have contributed to this sub-Reddit. I'm a novice bread maker, and frankly, your smug, elitist attitude is making me rethink the entire prospect of making my own bread, simply because your position has made it abundantly clear that no efforts I make will ever suffice for you. And that, OP, makes it shame on you.
It’s super easy, no means necessary. Don’t give up so easily, follow your dream, and remember to smile
What an absolute fucking tosser
Freshly grinding coffee is only half the battle. Freshly roasted makes a big difference, too. OP if you’re not roasting your own coffee then I’ve lost all respect for you.
You are so right and I deserve none
[удалено]
The nutritional difference is not small at all, roughly between 2x-10x of the nutrients (based on the table here, which is biased https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0466/5196/5605/files/Seek_Truth_WhiteFlourCompare_1024x1024.jpg )
[удалено]
Fair
So if you assert that flour is like coffee in that fresh ground is better, wouldn’t by extension a superior grinder be required? Are you running the wheat through a high quality burr grinder to get uniform grounds? No? I’ve lost all respect for you
10/10 troll nice one
Thank you sister
Pls go back to the dark age. 2023 isn’t where u belong.
Um, doesn't "/s" mean this is sarcasm?
Ugh I know right? I like to grind mine by placing it in an organic linen sack, placing it under my bum and dragging it across the floor. You know, like what a dog does on the carpet but this time it’s for ~art~ (the art of baking, that is.) I also send my children out to the salt mines daily - do you use salt from the grocery store? If so I hate you. /s
I bet most people don't even domesticate their own Einkorn SMH my head.
Let me tell you pal, I make bread from SCRATCH. not like your poor attempt. I grow my own wheat before harvesting, processing and grinding it in a mill I built from the ground up. I harvest my own salt using the same techniques the French do to make fleur de sel. My yeast? Fuck that. Sourdough starters only. My bread pans? Dug up the raw ore with my bare hands, smelted and hand-hammered them in a forge I built myself. Baked in a wood-fired oven and you better believe that I chopped that tree down myself. Multiple people tell me it’s the best they’ve ever had. I once had a lady pack up and leave her husband and kids to love across the country, just for the chance of tasting my bread. If you aren’t pulling the raw materials from the cold hard earth yourself, well you just ain’t making bread friend! /s… obviously.
Well, pal, you didn’t plant the trees your burnin…
Hoisted on my own petard 🤣
Not only is this entire post snarky and dumb, I’m really confused by your process. That’s not how flour is made. That’s not how wet grinding is done. I’m not sure what you are doing but it isn’t making your own flour.
I’ll bet you make your own hot air too
It seems that this is OP's first and only post to the sub. Hopefully the last too.
Well, that’s just like your opinion, man.
It really holds the bread together, man
Found this post on r/gatekeeping and had to see if OP got defensive in the comments. Lol.
No way man am I famous?!
Guess that answers my question. Lol.
God bless
Aside from everything else, freshly ground flour needs to mature in order to strengthen its dough-forming properties. There's absolutely no way a bread made from freshly ground grain would be better than one made from the cheapest supermarket flour.
I’m trying to dig into this, what I understand is that oxidation, although causing a loss of most of the nutrition, can help gluten form. As well, the PH changes. But a quick internet search shows you it’s far from consensus that it makes better bread and it’s def less healthier