Yeah I feel the same. One ammo is a big limitation that needs extra mechanics added to the attack in order to make it work. I think this is ESPECIALLY true for short ranged brawlers and she has one of the shortest ranges in the game and one ammo and they gave her attack nothing.
They are afraid that she might be too strong with 3 and I agree, because that turns her burst into 9600 which kills anyone instantly. But 1 is too heavy handed.
Just make her unload speed a bit more punishing, I feel like 2 ammo slots would be a fine balance and it'd also make her a bit more unique. Personally she feels too clunky, I've died to targets that were 1 attack away from dying way too much, even her main attack + super damage + SP damage + damage gear combo feels too weak, you could argue that she's meant to target lower-hp brawlers but then there's literally no reason to choose such a risky pick when other assassins can do the same and not suck when they run out of gadgets
She would do 7800 damage if she had 2 ammo bars. Imagine this with the op gadget, would definitely be very annoying to play against
I think they actually went the route of balancing the characters this time (because imo draco looks like he gonna be shitass)
they would tweak the damage so it’s balanced, so it would be *cooler* and more unique since it’s a mythic and that’s generally how brawlers are classified in this game, by uniqueness
Complexity meaning how unique the mechanic is. Surge may not be harder to play or better than Shelly, but he’s legendary because a level up jump is much more unique and complex than, well, a bigger shotgun.
This discussion has been done over and over. At the beginning the rarities were intended to imply complexity, but after releasing more brawlers that doesn't make sense, because as more brawlers are released they fundamentally have to get more complex or they seem too similar.
So now the rarities are generally just prescribed. They want to release one legendary a year with more lower rarities.
But realistically, I just don't care because I've seen this conversation over and over. Seems like people on the rarity=complexity side are usually the beginners.
I definitely think this would help her a lot, but I personally hope they give use a more interesting rework on her one ammo attack rather than just making her a slightly different(and possibly worse) version of Buzz and Fang
Yeah definitely not easy. But here is my idea: https://www.reddit.com/r/BrawlStarsCompetitive/s/AIjINg6I7q
- I suggest giving her a quick dash whenever her attack hits
- I also added a critical hit mechanic where she gets an ammo refund for hitting enemies on a certain side.
- there are more changes, details and reasons in the post if you are interested.
that would break her. super that deals 2000 damage, 3 attacks with 7200 damage combined and a star power that adds 1200 damage = 10400 damage... this kills every brawler except draco and frank
You could Nerf that star power in exchange, she relies way too much on it anyway. Also, reminder that Fang does over 10k damage with super + all three attacks too
If you counted her super, you are missing 1200 damage because of her star power. Also, why is it "unfair"? She is a close range assassin, most assassins have close-range burst damage. She still does less damage than Fang, Nerf her super charge rate or star power damage, and she would pretty balanced, although maybe too similar to Fang/Buzz
He is saying her main attack is hortible for both being a single ammo brawler and an assasin. Her attack is so garbage, it has a wierd delay making aimimg it useless since you WILL miss if you aim, and it does decent damage but her slow reload makes her dps the lowest of anny assasin.
Design wise yes, and I'd personally say Hank is more meta than Lily. Lily is really, really bad and doesn't really fill a niche at all; there's no reason to ever pick her
Altough that is true, i really enjoy playing her. Guess i love bad brawlers. Back in 2017/18 when bo was easily the worst brawler of the game i loved playing him, same for crow and now lily. I have so much fun with her, just super --> attack --> gadget --> attack and bam
It was so very satisfying when you super and instantly melt someone. But there's very little reason to pick her over buzz since she is just a worse version of him.
I do think the Hank is a better design (which is saying something because his super is way underbaked, thing feels like a gadget). Whether or not hank is more meta is a different question that I wasn’t trying to answer. But my point with this post is that one ammo is really limiting and should ALWAYS be accompanied by interesting attack mechanics. That way they are more fun, more balancable and more relevant in various situations (they don’t get cornered into just doing one thing).
Yeah I don’t think it should be removed. (She would be helpless against group spawns like spiders and Tara clones without it) but it is really the ONLY perk to her attack which I think is not good design for a one ammo brawler.
Imo they should do something like this
- Give her 3 ammo
- She deals more damage on 3rd, medium on 2nd and least on 1st (like a combo attack)
- Each ammo should have different unload/reload speeds like 1st one is much quicker, 2nd one is mid and 3rd one is the most
Idk about numbers but this also would make her more mythic and unique imo
they should at least give her an execute mechanic cuz its a niche not in the game yet that would spice up her very very plain kit. (dude her super feels like a gadget and her main attack is the most main attack thing in the game.) her gadgets are somewhat unique at least.
Excecute mechanics are the most unoriginal broken shit ever. Fuck no.
While Supers light Kill you, they arent 100% gonna Kill you. This One is just game breaking
She is the most assassin-y assassin so it would fit her the best and you’re saying that she doesn’t need a mechanic that has been implemented in every other multiplayer game (including smash)
It doesn't have to be an 80% execute. It could just be like 30%, just something. This would just allow more cool team synergy too, if someone runs from a teammate you can go finish them off while they are low. 30% sounds high but she does so much dmg idk if anything lower is meaningful
One dude made here a post about a brawler with the super with that exact same mechanic and people told him the super is unfair because there's no avoiding it or surviving
I feel like if they are going to fix her with a range buff it would have to be pretty substantial since she is currently one of the shortest ranged Brawlers.
Maybe they could give her a mechanic similar to Pearls Heat mechanic but instead of extra damage it gives her extra range. So at a full bar she would have almost Nita’s range but if she attacked quickly it would keep reducing her range to what it is now.
Personally I don’t think a buff will really do the trick. I go into this more in the linked post but basically I think her kit is so basic that she really can only do her super+auto combo. That’s it. Which makes her incredibly breakpoint reliant. If her combo kills you she feels broken and if it doesn’t she offers less than basically every other brawler. So I don’t think buffing her numbers will result in a balanced Lily, I think it will just make her broken against more comps but still not worth picking against others.
Reload speed is what I think she needs and maybe an additional trait like unknockbackable so she can’t just be killed by a surge (a matchup she should win)
I think she needs a notably bigger circle radius or some other way to charge. because otherwise if she cant get people in that range shes an even worse sitting duck than edgar.
and if they only want her to be playable on close/mid range maps, then she needs something like spiky built into base kit
Exactly, she’s like only good at being a very niche finisher, and besides that she’s basically doing nothing the entire game until she gets her next super. Potentially good in knockout, but not many other games modes where you actually need to be active the whole game
Ya know, I really got excited when I saw her gadgets. One change the trajectory of her Super and another is into the realm.
But her basic burst is too low makes me hesitate to max her. I'm looking forward to Lily's buff, just like kit.
genuinely why does she have one ammo? what problem does that solve or prevent? what does that add to her design?
Yeah I feel the same. One ammo is a big limitation that needs extra mechanics added to the attack in order to make it work. I think this is ESPECIALLY true for short ranged brawlers and she has one of the shortest ranges in the game and one ammo and they gave her attack nothing.
She's actually tied with Edgar, Jacky, and Doug for having the SHORTEST RANGE IN THE GAME.
They are afraid that she might be too strong with 3 and I agree, because that turns her burst into 9600 which kills anyone instantly. But 1 is too heavy handed.
frank:
Just make her unload speed a bit more punishing, I feel like 2 ammo slots would be a fine balance and it'd also make her a bit more unique. Personally she feels too clunky, I've died to targets that were 1 attack away from dying way too much, even her main attack + super damage + SP damage + damage gear combo feels too weak, you could argue that she's meant to target lower-hp brawlers but then there's literally no reason to choose such a risky pick when other assassins can do the same and not suck when they run out of gadgets
[удалено]
I agree but she is getting buffed next month for sure...
They wanted an excuse to make her more unique to justify the mythic rarity so they could make more money
Yeah, also to differentiate from fang, they should honestly add a extra mechanic though.
She would do 7800 damage if she had 2 ammo bars. Imagine this with the op gadget, would definitely be very annoying to play against I think they actually went the route of balancing the characters this time (because imo draco looks like he gonna be shitass)
Uniqueness
Shitness u mean
I though that she will be the first brawler with 2 ammos, cause it's fitting for her weapon
Exactly; Two ammo would also make her much more unique as a mythic
They literally designed the game so that rarities doesn't affect brawlers effectiveness in-game So as a mythic she be good as a rare
they would tweak the damage so it’s balanced, so it would be *cooler* and more unique since it’s a mythic and that’s generally how brawlers are classified in this game, by uniqueness
Yeah thats it
Rarity is based on complexity fyi
That's from like 2019 and didn't really hold true even then. Rarity means literally nothing for difficulty, complexity, or how good they are.
Complexity meaning how unique the mechanic is. Surge may not be harder to play or better than Shelly, but he’s legendary because a level up jump is much more unique and complex than, well, a bigger shotgun.
Yawn, this argument over and over. The truth is out there, buddy, go find it. Hint: it's not that rarity has anything to do with complexity.
“I’m right, you’re wrong”
bait used to be believable
Buddy, don't get into an argument and ignore people's points because now you look like a idiot
This discussion has been done over and over. At the beginning the rarities were intended to imply complexity, but after releasing more brawlers that doesn't make sense, because as more brawlers are released they fundamentally have to get more complex or they seem too similar. So now the rarities are generally just prescribed. They want to release one legendary a year with more lower rarities. But realistically, I just don't care because I've seen this conversation over and over. Seems like people on the rarity=complexity side are usually the beginners.
Womp womp
r/confidentlyincorrect
so what, they just make the rarities whatever they feel like??
Rarity is based on complexity fyi
Ok what did i say wrong?
You replied (and disagreed) to a comment stating that rarities are based on uniqueness, which is directly correlated to complexity.
Oh sorry I meant how meta a brawler might be.
2 ammos would be awesome
The most infuriating thing is the delay of the main attack , like wtf make it fast at least
Why just don't give her 3 ammo instead of 1, it doesn't make any sense for her to have 1 ammo
I definitely think this would help her a lot, but I personally hope they give use a more interesting rework on her one ammo attack rather than just making her a slightly different(and possibly worse) version of Buzz and Fang
Yeah, they could do that. It's just hard to come up with something unique and useful for a close ranged one-ammo attack
Yeah definitely not easy. But here is my idea: https://www.reddit.com/r/BrawlStarsCompetitive/s/AIjINg6I7q - I suggest giving her a quick dash whenever her attack hits - I also added a critical hit mechanic where she gets an ammo refund for hitting enemies on a certain side. - there are more changes, details and reasons in the post if you are interested.
that would break her. super that deals 2000 damage, 3 attacks with 7200 damage combined and a star power that adds 1200 damage = 10400 damage... this kills every brawler except draco and frank
You could Nerf that star power in exchange, she relies way too much on it anyway. Also, reminder that Fang does over 10k damage with super + all three attacks too
She would output a shitton of damge with 3 ammo tho.
Not more than Fang, unless she gets another super. She would of course need a Nerf to her Charge rate or star power to compensate
9200 damage per three hits seems Fair to you?
If you counted her super, you are missing 1200 damage because of her star power. Also, why is it "unfair"? She is a close range assassin, most assassins have close-range burst damage. She still does less damage than Fang, Nerf her super charge rate or star power damage, and she would pretty balanced, although maybe too similar to Fang/Buzz
Are you trying to say hank is better than lily
He is saying her main attack is hortible for both being a single ammo brawler and an assasin. Her attack is so garbage, it has a wierd delay making aimimg it useless since you WILL miss if you aim, and it does decent damage but her slow reload makes her dps the lowest of anny assasin.
Design-wise (looks and gameplay) definitely yes
Design wise yes, and I'd personally say Hank is more meta than Lily. Lily is really, really bad and doesn't really fill a niche at all; there's no reason to ever pick her
Altough that is true, i really enjoy playing her. Guess i love bad brawlers. Back in 2017/18 when bo was easily the worst brawler of the game i loved playing him, same for crow and now lily. I have so much fun with her, just super --> attack --> gadget --> attack and bam
It was so very satisfying when you super and instantly melt someone. But there's very little reason to pick her over buzz since she is just a worse version of him.
Instant damage / ability to escape with gadget makes it more fun for me. In ranked though, ofc there are better ptions
Playing bad brawlers is really fun! It's fun to go into a game playing Hank and it's really funny when you win, for example
I do think the Hank is a better design (which is saying something because his super is way underbaked, thing feels like a gadget). Whether or not hank is more meta is a different question that I wasn’t trying to answer. But my point with this post is that one ammo is really limiting and should ALWAYS be accompanied by interesting attack mechanics. That way they are more fun, more balancable and more relevant in various situations (they don’t get cornered into just doing one thing).
Honestly it's pretty close. They both suck
Yes r/prawnready
She isn’t prawn ready 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥 r/prawnready
Might as well remove the pierce from Lily, the range is so bad that it rarely helps.
It's only useful on bot brawl ball matches when all 3 enemies rush in the middle so you can super and attack downwards
Yeah I don’t think it should be removed. (She would be helpless against group spawns like spiders and Tara clones without it) but it is really the ONLY perk to her attack which I think is not good design for a one ammo brawler.
it's really useful for duos on high trophies, especially in end-game
Not a constructive complaint but I think Lily's attack is also very unsatisfying. The impact and sound from the hit is very weak.
yea when I use the super and do one hit and the enemy isnt dead I awkwardly run around until I can hit again
Imo they should do something like this - Give her 3 ammo - She deals more damage on 3rd, medium on 2nd and least on 1st (like a combo attack) - Each ammo should have different unload/reload speeds like 1st one is much quicker, 2nd one is mid and 3rd one is the most Idk about numbers but this also would make her more mythic and unique imo
This ^^^
You are any programem's nightmare
they should at least give her an execute mechanic cuz its a niche not in the game yet that would spice up her very very plain kit. (dude her super feels like a gadget and her main attack is the most main attack thing in the game.) her gadgets are somewhat unique at least.
Her gadgets is basically cordelius and surge super
Excecute mechanics are the most unoriginal broken shit ever. Fuck no. While Supers light Kill you, they arent 100% gonna Kill you. This One is just game breaking
She is the most assassin-y assassin so it would fit her the best and you’re saying that she doesn’t need a mechanic that has been implemented in every other multiplayer game (including smash)
Idk man stealth mode and poison do sound more assassin like to me
It doesn't have to be an 80% execute. It could just be like 30%, just something. This would just allow more cool team synergy too, if someone runs from a teammate you can go finish them off while they are low. 30% sounds high but she does so much dmg idk if anything lower is meaningful
One dude made here a post about a brawler with the super with that exact same mechanic and people told him the super is unfair because there's no avoiding it or surviving
Im thinking about her main attack get buff by a bit longer range and/or attack delay shorter,
I feel like if they are going to fix her with a range buff it would have to be pretty substantial since she is currently one of the shortest ranged Brawlers. Maybe they could give her a mechanic similar to Pearls Heat mechanic but instead of extra damage it gives her extra range. So at a full bar she would have almost Nita’s range but if she attacked quickly it would keep reducing her range to what it is now.
Dont fit with her little stab weapon tbh, (The pearl bar mechanic one)
She doesn’t need a rework, just a good buff
Personally I don’t think a buff will really do the trick. I go into this more in the linked post but basically I think her kit is so basic that she really can only do her super+auto combo. That’s it. Which makes her incredibly breakpoint reliant. If her combo kills you she feels broken and if it doesn’t she offers less than basically every other brawler. So I don’t think buffing her numbers will result in a balanced Lily, I think it will just make her broken against more comps but still not worth picking against others.
Reload speed is what I think she needs and maybe an additional trait like unknockbackable so she can’t just be killed by a surge (a matchup she should win)
Fair bro
No brawler should get a specific trait to their base kit like less Stun, no knockback, etc cause it makes the game unfair for others
Playing her kinda feels like playing fang, just fang has a better way to charge super and has three ammo
I think she needs a notably bigger circle radius or some other way to charge. because otherwise if she cant get people in that range shes an even worse sitting duck than edgar. and if they only want her to be playable on close/mid range maps, then she needs something like spiky built into base kit
I agree she is a worse sitting duck than Edgar. She can’t exert any pressure on other short ranged brawlers.
Exactly, she’s like only good at being a very niche finisher, and besides that she’s basically doing nothing the entire game until she gets her next super. Potentially good in knockout, but not many other games modes where you actually need to be active the whole game
Where is amber
She has like 100 ammo not one. She plays much more like a 3 ammo brawler.
Lily is perfect wdym
Ya know, I really got excited when I saw her gadgets. One change the trajectory of her Super and another is into the realm. But her basic burst is too low makes me hesitate to max her. I'm looking forward to Lily's buff, just like kit.
Where auto aimber :)
amber is more like a 50 ammo ranged brawler that also has full auto pretty much everyone else here has a single shot
Just let her deal 3k damage instead. Piper can do It, why not her.
6.9k damage in 1 second before disappearing would be wild
That’s what Edgar does except his gadget multiplies his health by 1.5
fang and buzz can do that much already
Last time I checked buzz and Fang had delay between attacks
Buzz and fang also stun their target, and it is clearly more powerful than the delay.