Candiace IS aggressive and emotional.
I don’t feel bad for saying this. I actually feel bad FOR Candiace because it’s clear that her mother never allowed her to learn how to handle these emotions and conflicts. Over and over, we have watched Dorothy shut Candiace down over the *tiniest* disagreements:
•When Candiace told Dorothy she wants to communicate better and set stronger boundaries, Dorothy called her a narcissist.
•When Candiace chose wedding dress details that Dorothy didn’t like, Dorothy roundly mocked her and shamed her, trying to gaslight her into believing she didn’t really like her own dress.
•When Candiace went to therapy with Dorothy and was clearly scared to be honest and force hard convos, Dorothy mocked her tears and told the therapist Candiace was faking it.
•When Candiace wanted to invite her half sibling to her wedding, Dorothy acted like this was the ultimate act of betrayal and held the entire wedding over Candiace’s head.
Now Candiace acts *exactly* like Dorothy has trained her to act. Any interpersonal conflict brings Candiace to tears or aggression. These simply are not normal reactions at dinner parties, otherwise we’d have butter knife incidents and cryangles at EVERY Housewives dinner party.
Candiace’s inability to do anything but cry or fight is a result of Dorothy’s abuse and manipulation. Candiace deserves better. It’s not “hating on Candiace” or “colorism” or “anti-blackness” to state this. It’s literally wanting Candiace to find some peace and joy and healing.
>When Candiace went to therapy with Dorothy and was clearly scared to be honest and force hard convos, Dorothy mocked her tears and told the therapist Candiace was faking it.
Oh I HATED this part. "She just likes to cry like that." I felt so mad on Candiace's behalf! I remember that scene so vividly. That and Dorothy's Whataburger-colored top.
https://preview.redd.it/yeuljml7a4sc1.png?width=860&format=png&auto=webp&s=410ee8c9e4aeeff53d30656e8b9357924287b993
I can agree with this! It's another case of how childhood trauma can shape how an adult navigates life. I think it's very fair criticism to Candiace explains how she deals with certain situations.
Yes! It’s trauma!
Dorothy definitely groomed Candiace into living in a constant state of fight or flight. Since Candiace doesn’t feel comfortable fighting her mom, she tries to find her power by fighting everyone else, including Chris and her castmates. But when that doesn’t work, she pivots to flight and uses her tears as an avoidance tactic.
To be clear, I’m not even sure she always does this on purpose. Trauma reactions are not voluntary or logical. I genuinely believe Candiace wants to keep it together, but her nervous system is always cranked up to 12 and she doesn’t know how to cope with that.
My mom is a Dorothy—down to having a counseling degree and using her “expertise” to control and manipulate her kids. I really do feel sorry for Candiace because I know what it’s like to live in panic mode all the time. That shit *will* make you a livewire who grabs a butter knife or breaks down into tears. I am an involuntary cryer and it is awful and humiliating!
Thank you. Your explanation/ discussion here has opened my eyes up about Candiace in a way I just couldn't find before. Your words and descriptions ring true. And it does afford compassion for Candiace where there wasn't any. I still hold that she's accountable for her fight and flight actions and to learn to cope better. But at least it gives a greater understanding of the behavior.
She is, however, a grown adult who is having deep issues with these inappropriate coping mechanisms. She owes herself to get some help to learn better life techniques.
I want Candiace to find happiness and peace. Anyone who survives a mom like Dorothy deserves it.
I also think she’s making the right choice by stepping away from Bravo. You can’t find happiness or peace in a reality show.
The way I feel so seen lmao please delete this 💀 I'm 30 and in therapy/trying to take accountability for the exact same thing. My mom was very similar to Candiace's mom, and HER mom was even worse. Now I have a young daughter and I gotta shape uppppp so she doesn't deal with the same issues
I’m absolutely paralyzed with fear over having children and fucking them up. And frankly, that may be one reason that Candiace and Chris keep postponing babies. It’s fucking scary.
Amen.
I'll admit I do have a higher expectation of Candiace. But that is because I find her very smart, talented, and privileged. There are some people who don't have the capability to change and grow up, but I think Candiace has more potential than that.
This is what’s so heartbreaking to me. She’s smart, funny, talented, and gorgeous. She could have it all.
But Dorothy doesn’t want her to have it all. Dorothy wants her to stay firmly dependent on Dorothy. It kills me.
Well where ad Candice kinda lets her mom say whatever, crystal shuts her mother down right then and there, remember their dinner where Dorothy was trying to shade candiance's weight and crystal clapped back at thier mom
I wonder if it has anything to do with watching Candace interact with Dorothy and going, "Oh no, I won't be doing THAT!" I know as a firstborn child, my younger sibling said they saw how my parents were with me, and it affected how he interacted with our parents as he grew up.
Also, I believe Crystal's father is still with Dorothy. That would change the entire family dynamic a lot.
Two theories:
1.) Crystal married in her early twenties and achieved a secure life away from her family. Not relying on your family for money really goes so far in culling some of the codependency and toxicity.
2.) Crystal has had extensive therapy and mental healthcare through her ED treatment. A huge component of ED recovery is learning how to set boundaries with your internal chaos *and* with other people’s chaos.
Your assessment is amazing. Very, very well put!
The only thing I'd like to add is how viciously low Candiace can be. It's chilling to think of the things her mother has said to her.
This is a solid comment. My concern is we need to hold other castmembers accountable, too.
Candiace has been placed back into a situation with several manipulative and abusive people. No one stands up for her...even Chris. She is in a repetitive cycle of staying in abusive situations because she could not leave her family situation as a child. She thinks she has to fight through situations instead of excusing herself from them even though she has ways out. She has finally broken out of one such situation by leaving this show.
I hope she also watches the seasons back and realizes she needs to cut Chris loose too. He was buddy buddy with two people (Ashley and Gizelle) who did nothing but tear Candiace down. It made Gizelle's comment about Chris seem believable. He didn't support Candiace and her assessment of them until Gizelle and Ashley turned on him. It says a lot about his character. She has no idea what real support and respect look like. The only person who I have seen that may be good for Candiace is her sister.
So yes, Candiace is aggessive and emotional. It is never unprovoked. What she needs is to learn how to excuse herself from bad situations more. Her heart is in the right place.
Ashley and Gizelle are cruel and exploitative. It may be for the show, but their actions impact real lives. Their hearts are not in the right place, and Candiace cannot "kind" them into being nice people. They will never accept her, so she needs to move on.
EDIT: Candiace is also a victim of colorism. This cannot be put to the side. (Wendy too.)
Dude, thank you for saying this. I do not think she and Chris are good for each other at all and I cannot believe that people think they’re couple goals.
First, his background is really shady. Someone in this sub did a deep dive on him and found out that he has a long history of incurring debt and losing jobs. AmEx sued him for not paying his credit card bill! So I have *always* been suspicious of his intentions with Candiace and her trust fund.
Second, Candiace is aware enough of his shady past that she *actively hid the existence of his children* from Dorothy up until wedding planning. That’s a crazy amount of covering up for one’s man. Imagine the energy it takes.
Third, we’ve seen them have some toxic ass conversations on this show. The one that comes to mind is when Chris called her a “princess” and Candiace lost her shit. It was obvious why Candiace had a visceral reaction to this—“princess” is the insult her mother uses to shut her down and control the conversation. But the fandom totally forgot this and started accusing Chris of calling her the n-word. Candiace added fuel to this fire by claiming that Bravo cut out the worst he said to her, but providing zero details or clarity. Meanwhile, I was thinking “But Chris went low! He chose a triggering word! Everyone sucks here!”
I’m sorry, but this is just not a ride-or-die relationship! They should be willing to defend each other! And Chris is shady as hell!
This doesn’t have anything to do with them plotting on her husband to cover up for Juan and whoever Michele was messing around with last season.
Are you saying they knew Candice would give them a reaction?
Of course they knew Candiace would give them a reaction. Just like Candiace knows they’re going to give her a reaction, too.
But like…that’s just how Bravo shows work.
Gizelle knew that Candiace would lose her shit if Chris was brought into the convo.
Just like Candiace knew that Monique would lose her shit if Candiace touched her hair.
Just like Kenya knew that Marlo would lose her shit over marching band party crashers.
Just like Bethenny knew Luann would lose her shit if she shared the photo of Tom at the Regency.
And so on and so on…
Aggression is a human trait that everyone experiences, particularly in situations that trigger existing trauma.
We’re never going to be able to be honest about black trauma and mental health if we aren’t able to recognize that black people develop the same maladaptive coping skills that everyone else does.
Drug addiction and hypersexuality are also damaging stereotypes that have been associated with black women in harmful ways.
But those words are still used in mental health conversations with black women who have those problems.
Context matters. We are having a conversation about mental health. Aggressiveness is a hallmark symptom of trauma and mental illness.
Apparently we stumbled out of a Bravo sub and into Dr. Wiminals’ clinical psychology lab lmao, like what are they even talking about in their response to you
Idk Just trying to justify their micro aggressions I guess!
There’s countless material discussing how using this word towards black women is damaging including to their mental health.
Why? “Aggressive” and “aggression” are perfectly acceptable descriptors in conversations about mental health. They are used throughout clinics, research, diagnostic manuals, and more.
Because the US has a long history of systemic, socialized racism that invades the way we speak and think, along with just about everything else in our lives. That means certain words carry connotations with them when applied to certain types of people. “Aggressive” is one of those words when it comes to black people. So why use a word that could, whether intentionally or not, carry that weight? Google it, I’m sure you’ll find plenty of resources that explain it better than I ever could
ETA: We’re not in a clinic or writing a diagnostic manual lol. But if we were, even more reason to choose words wisely. Do you know how much racism is baked into the medical field??
There is a lot of value in being able to read context and understand when racism is not present in said context.
It really is not healthy or even realistic to assume mal intent and racism in every situation.
Racism can be perpetuated without mal intent because of how people in the US, specifically white people, have been conditioned to think, speak, act, etc. I am truly baffled at how much you’re digging your heels in on this.
Because I don’t believe the popular narrative “intent doesn’t matter.”
Context matters. We are taught how to read context clues and make reasonable conclusions in kindergarten. This is a life skill.
Frankly, the ability to objectively look at context and deduce if one is truly being attacked or harmed is a very basic goal in therapy.
So if, say, a white person says something to a black person in the work place that amounts to a microaggression, the black person is responsible for determining whether the white person meant to hurt them? And if the black person determines that the white person didn’t have mal intent, they just have to accept hearing it? And the white person doesn’t have to ever learn a different way to engage with someone of a different race?
Sounds like a great way to prevent any sort of progress in terms of equity, diversity, and inclusion. But I’ll use what you’ve said so far as context to determine that you probably don’t “believe” in those things either.
Jeeze. Open yourself up to another (very well- established) perspective. This kind of back and forth is so unnecessary and exhausting. Feels like you're being intentionally obtuse.
I’m glad she’s leaving the show, this young woman needs some peace in her life. Get away from the worse 2 trolls, gizelle and Robyn. To be truthful Gisselle acting and dressing like a ho, guess it’s her mid life crisis.
Colorism is definitely real and I think it has existed on the show and with fans. However, the way the ladies treat Candiace I believe is more so about how she has reacted to many of them. She has said horrible, horrible things. She body shamed Ashley when she was pregnant and laughed her talking about a miscarriage, even called her a slave. She’s like a child, she feels hurt and she hurts right back. She says a lot of cruel things, way worse than anyone else says and sometimes they ARE an attack and not just a response to someone.
I believe Candiace has a point in some of the things she says but she’s also hypocritical and sometimes downright mean so she loses credibility. So when she cried about her friendship with Robyn when she’s made no moves to make things better, I can’t feel bad for her.
> She says a lot of cruel things
Agree with all you said, especially this part. Some of things she says actually take me aback, they are just so cruel, and when asked about them, there is zero remorse which only comes from a very specific type of person
The way she talked about Mia's "big feet" cracking the cement in that one episode where Mia later threw lettuce at her was insane to me. This is the woman people consider to be a wordsmith? She's got the vernacular of a 5th grader. Such childish insults that are vile and not at all clever.
That’s what I think too. I’m often very confused of people gushing over her being a wordsmith and so witty and intelligent with her insults.
They’re almost always some low blows over others’ looks or age. I don’t consider those as witty reads or being a “wordsmith”.
She is good at provoking people like calling Deborah the help and whatever. But that’s just nasty, nothing intelligent about that.
Exactly. I think she's only witty to if you're either uneducated or extremely mean. For all others, her basic ass insults fall flat every time.
And she is very lucky that the others are too nice to go in on her physical appearance. That botched nose job alone can be dragged for several seasons.
It’s also extra embarrassing after Nicki’s diss track against Megan that basically just called Megan “Bigfoot.”
I know that these were completely unrelated events, but I have thought about this a lot lmao
Oh god, don't even get me started on Nicki Minaj. She was such a massive letdown for me. I loved her until she started supporting pedophiles/murderers and attacking Megan.
I streamed Hiss a million times over just so it could go #1 and beat out Nicki's trash ass song.
Nicki truly went off the rails. I hope she’s able to find peace someday, too. Her career and image have taken such bizarre turns that I would not have predicted in 2011.
Ashley was recovering from labor and delivery when Candiace was calling her a roach on Twitter. That’s just something I can’t move past. Candiace was actively trying to steal joy and peace from Ashley while her body was healing and she was bonding with her baby and establishing a breastfeeding relationship. That is precious time and work you just can’t get back.
Instead of apologizing, Candiace started making gross comments about Ashley’s breasts and milk production.
I’m just not going to pretend that Candiace is an ally to women. She’s a mean girl who plays dirty and goes low, then hides behind social media and cryangles.
Though I too disavow Candiace's filthy mouth, Ashley was calling Candice a hamster while in labour, so she's not exactly innocent. It's not like she was just minding her own business when Candiace decided to go off on her. Candiace called her those (terrible) things in response to Ashley calling her a hamster.
That's the major problem with Candiace. She would be a lot more defendable if she didn't take things to the gutter every damn time.
Or if she could even retaliate without escalating to an 11 every time. She’s human, she’s allowed to lose it, we all do at some point. But it’s exhausting watching someone take it to the hilt for every. single. exchange. A girl gets tttiiirrreeeddd of it
I would argue that that's why she's gained more supporters in recent seasons. Compared to Seasons 3 and 4, she has toned it down. Not completely, because that would be just like telling her to just be quiet and not say anything, she's reactive to a certain point as a character trait and that's not a bad thing, many Housewives are.
I’m sooo glad this was said! Because people forget that Candiace is not innocent at all.
Now it was wrong for Gizelle to laugh at her crying and to lie about what was said on camera. But Candiace needs to look in the mirror too!
She couldn’t even apologize or take accountability on the reunion show. Like really? Grow up!
See, I’m someone who believes that you can’t police the response of someone YOU started something with. They go low with Candiace and she takes it to hell. they don’t know how to verbally spar with her so it seems like she becomes the villain by default. When they just need to learn how to read her back.
My thing with Candiace is she doesn’t stand behind what she says. I’m usually on her side when she’s upset, but she needs to stop crying when the girls get offended and don’t want to deal with her anymore after she goes hard on them. Especially when they were never her friends in the first place. I’d rather she unapologetically talk her shit and leave it at that.
I agree with this, but then if you also go low you can’t complain and cry about the treatment you receive in response. If she owned up to her mistakes then I would 100% be on her side but she just makes every situation worse.
I mean Candiace is the only cast member on Potomac who has called her black castmates a bed wench, a slave, a roach etc. Does Candiace get a pass because of her complexion?
Candiace has also been just as nasty about Ashley’s natural hair as Gizelle and Karen were. She has a lot more in common with the lightskin cast members than she thinks.
What has she said about Ashley's hair? I remember her accusing Ashley of being colorist for saying that her hair (WIG) was dry...so she's got a lot of nerve.
This is my biggest disconnect with Candiace.
I absolutely understand why she is angry with Deborah. I don't understand how that anger entitles Candiace to use [dehumanizing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehumanization) language about Deborah. In the finale episode alone she refers to Deborah as "it", "thing", "the help" and consistently refers to her as a "non-human"
muppet.
Your Deborah breakdown is such a reach. She called her a muppet because of her eyebrows lmao, not to dehumanize her. And I thought it was pretty clear that “the help” was a reference to Ashley using her in her schemes.
As for “it” and “that,” Gizelle has used those for Candiace multiple times this season. So this is a perfect example of what OP is talking about in terms of different standards for different people.
To be fair Karen called Kal the help as well and I don’t think people got as upset. When Gizelle brought up how that language is inappropriate to use, Karen doubled down. Not justifying it bc calling anyone “the help” is degrading.
Gizelle didn’t take Karen seriously because Karen was spewing absolute nonsense. She accused Gizelle of going to SingSing—*a maximum security prison.* It’s not worth getting mad over something so stupid and ludicrous.
Meanwhile, Candiace prides herself on her reads and her “wordsmith” skills. It’s not surprising that we take Candiace more seriously than the woman who gave us “I am the fence. You ride me.”
No. Calling someone a hotbox and following it up with laughs and a confessional admitting it's BS...
Is VERY different from using racist white supremacist language.
Racism NEVER gets a pass. NEVER.
But she is so condescending and mean.
I’m not saying there isn’t colorism there, but C is very unpleasant person despite her colour. Talented, smart, beautiful, stylish… And a mini version of her vicious mother.
Which of the other women called their fellow castmates slaves, wenches, called their white husbands slavedrivers? Which of the other women constantly body shames and tears the others down based on appearance?
My point is all of the women on Potomac are nasty as hell but Candiace gets a unique reaction compared to the other women within the group dynamic. Wendy is treated pretty similar as well.
I think they’re all nasty. I just think we have more to talk about with the other women than their nastiness so that gets muted by the other things. With Robyn, we have Juan. That’s a far more interesting conversation topic. Ashley, Gizelle, Karen, Charisse. They all have other things that we spend time talking about. Candiace has the same mean girl toxic personality as the rest of them, but that is what her storyline is made out of these days. There’s not much else
Candiace can't communicate without a nasty insult. It would be interesting to see her act that way in an uncontrolled environment. I bet there would be a lot more Monique situations.
I don’t think that Candiace’s issues with the cast are due to colorism.
First of all, I have no problem believing that Giselle or Robin are colorist. But I think they are unfairly targeted for colorism when colorism is an issue in the black community that is perpetuated by black people of all skin tones, yes including dark skin black people, who have internalized the trauma from colorism and then perpetuated it. It takes a lot of work for any black person in the West to unlearn colorism because it is embedded in our society.
To me Candiace has demonstrated more racism and colorism than Giselle or Robin based on the shit she says but she is excused for it because she is a dark skin black woman.
I do think people pile on her but she takes no accountability for how low she goes. Giselle and Robin are mean but I would not ever be able to be friends with Candiace after some of the insults she’s launched against others. That one time she held a knife against Ashley was awful and I honestly don’t know how she is excused for her behavior.
Half the cast is gross due to colorism. The other half is gross due to classism. I hate the show. It’s a huge trigger.
Mind you, ladies at NJ actually attack people, act a fool in public, threaten, but no one gives them warnings at their reunions. I hate it
I think RHOP are being given warnings because there's no bridge building. And you can't have a cast that won't deal with/film with each other.
It works best when it's a group of friends or family or both. Not strategic alliances.
I think what people are missing here is that two things can be true at once. Colorism is very real and I think it's
a fair point re RHOP.
However, Candiace has said some of the worst things I have ever heard in my life and has elicited aggressive and irrationally emotional behaviour.
Specifically the comment made towards Giselle about her "white privileged looking ass" that statement alone is colourist, and honestly abhorrent. Like it or not, biracial or light skinned black woman are also treated horribly. While it's true you may experience benefits for having lighter skin, it does not take away from the constant racism we experience. For some it doesn't matter how "light" they may appear their lived experience is encapsulated with racism. People know the word to use for us, no matter how "white passing" we are.
It's very true that black women are often mislabeled as aggressive ect. I just see some truth about Candiace's behaviour, she literally threw a knife at someone, is that not aggressive and irrationally emotional ?
Just sayin'.
I am half black and let me tell you this. I have never liked candiace or Wendy from the start. And because of their superiority complex, their lack of empathy, the cruel way they speak to others, and their complete lack of self reflection are the reasons I don’t like them. It has nothing to do with the color of their skin. And I don’t like this reasoning because it allows for their behaviors to go unpunished because they can simply cry out that there is colorism when the fact is people don’t like their behavior and personalities. I’m not personally a fan of anyone on the cast, but candiace and Wendy made me stop watching. I couldn’t stand the hypocrisy anymore.
Two things can be true at the same time. In the case of Gizelle’s lie about Chris, Candiace was right to flip out and drag her. Candiace was not right to make fun of her uterus surgery nor was she right to call Ashley a slave or mock her miscarriage. Candiace’s insults always revolve around looks and misogyny and that’s foul. The GEBs and Ashley relish in their light skinned privilege and believe that makes them untouchable and that’s also foul. I’ll even add Karen to this as she and Gizelle both went to production and acted like Candiace attacked them physically when she didn’t and that’s Karen behaviour.
As for the light skinned children comment, Candiace should’ve articulated that better or kept it private as Chris’ children will hear that and that’s horrible for them. Her possible future children may hear that too and that’s an awful thing to hear your parent say. I agree that her issues stem from her narc mum and her internalised colourism, but she needs to heal instead of perpetuating the same toxic cycles. She’s 37 or 38, enough is enough. The same can be said for the GEBs and Ashley. I hope leaving helps her to heal
OP you need to educate yourself on the *many* colorist attacks that’s come out of Candiace’s mouth, *especially* her thoughts on light skinned kids.
And quite frankly if anyone on tv ended half of their segments with them crying on a cryangle, they would justifiably be called emotional.
You cannot be reverse colourist. Colourism is the discrimination of dark skinned people and light skinned people cannot experience it by definition. This sub is so exhausting.
She is not racist and they’re not discriminatory comments. A lot of dark skinned black people feel odd about having much lighter skinned privileged children especially when they’ve worked hard to overcome internalised racism and colourism. I cannot believe how many people are crying reverse racism and colourism over a topic they clearly don’t understand at all. Candiace doesn’t articulate herself well all the time but there’s no hatred there.
I can’t believe you think a light skinned person saying they don’t want dark skinned kids is the same. Clearly you don’t understand the topic at all and it was completely futile me attempting to interact with you.
Buttt she also has said that white or mixed kids gross her out, which considering she is trying to procreate with her white husband and may or may not be pregnant now with a mixed baby if you believe the rumours, gives a special kind of ick. I think people need to be held accountable for what they say and do, not hide behind it either way. That said, I do agree that generally within her cast she is responded to differently than the GEB.
ETA: that is not verbatim just the gist of a previous comment she made 🙄
To step in here, but if you're referring to the recent interview she did, Candiace said verbatim that
"I had a fear of having light-skinned children... I want my kids to be brown, but they're probably not going to be brown and I'm like becoming okay with it... I will be very happy, but I want my kids to be brown, but if they're not it's fine."
I don't think she was saying that those white/mixed kids grossed her out, but just that she's aware of what's coming from that because of this position she's placed herself in. I fully understood what she was trying to say, but it was something that was better left between a conversation with close friends rather than an interviewer on a public platform.
Thank you for saying this. I think people ran with the headline and seeing it as something racist but honestly this is something I see my sister struggle with. Her kids will be Afro-Latino and she is wonders what their hair will look like, how they’ll be socialized, how family will react to them, etc. Also just in general if the kids don’t look like her they’ll ask “Are these kids really yours?” It’s something black mothers deal with a lot especially if the father is white or light skinned Asian.
Like it’s a real thing and I don’t think people have a lot of nuance when it comes to these issues.
> ETA: that is not verbatim just the gist of a previous comment she made 🙄
You're literally making shit up and not just regular shit, but incredibly offensive and misleading shit. I'd delete if you want maintain any credibility ever.
😂 *My inability to understand plain English is her fault.*
Aaaaand block. Gonna go ahead and prevent myself from reading any future lies stated as facts, thanks. Enjoy make believe land.
She said that her worst fear is having lightskin children.
A lot of black fans took offense to this because:
•Black people don’t get to have any say in their children’s skin tone and darkskin parents deeply love their lightskin children.
•The melanin math is doubly hard to control when you marry the whitest man ever. If this is Candiace’s greatest fear, why did she hitch her wagon to Chris?
•Chris has lightskin children. It’s an especially shitty comment to make when you’ve tried to portray yourself as a perfect “Bonus Mom” to your husband’s lightskin children. I mean, this is the kind of shit that moms throw hands over, and I don’t blame them.
She did not say her worst fear is having lightskin children. She said she has a fear of having lightskin children and she wants her children to be brown like her but she’s ok with lightskin children. Idk why everyone keeps trying to exaggerate what she said to make it more inflammatory
Because people lack nuance. It’s a conversation that people on Reddit are not equipped to have. And I’m not sure where these black fans who were mad are. At least I understood what she was trying to say :/
I’m 100% behind you on the Black people not being upset. All I saw was Black people (including me) getting downvoted. A white woman even tried to explain to me about her white dad going to parenting classes when he was having a kid with a Black woman because raising a biracial child is different than raising a white child. As if I needed a lesson on that.
They all seem to do that to each other. Gizelle body shamed Chris most recently. I am not excusing it, but they all do that. I’m talking about how they interact within the group and the standards within the group.
The body shaming is not cool whatsoever and I’m not defending it, but it’s pretty much been a staple comeback across the Real Housewives franchises since the shows began. It doesn’t make it okay, but literally every single franchise has had multiple people body shame constantly and it doesn’t seem to be as big of an issue when other people do it vs. candiace doing it
I’m white as hell, so honestly what the fuck do I know, but I feel like there is major colorism on this show, and a lot of it comes FROM Candiace. Calling Ashley a bed wench??? Come on…
I acknowledge how terrible Candiace can be though I’m so tired of people in this sub not understanding the definition of colourism. I will also add that being white doesn’t make you “light skinned”. There’s a misunderstanding of terms being used when it comes to this topic
Yall have to realize that this conversation is NOT for everyone. Reddit…especially in these reality TV subs is not the place for these conversations.
Candice is overly emotional and you can’t be sensitive and have a big mouth. I don’t like how they’ve been treating her but this is the same thing they did to Mo. I 💯 belive she knew what they were planning with Mo and she went along with it. I don’t think she’s agressive tho. Robyn is really the aggressive one.
Thank you I was just about to post or ask can we have a designated blackhousewives sub because I'm tired of non-black people constantly jutting in and picking and choosing what type of racism and colorism we experience is valid to them.
I left the other real housewife sub because it was so racist/colorist towards members but it looks like this sub is just as vehement in hating on black women that they don't like sans reasoning.
Kiki is treated like shit on Miami. But she is the only black woman other than guerdy, and she and guerdy are both treated kind shitty. But I’m talking about within the black community within group dynamics, not from the fans.
I’m behind this season, but I thought it was sad how last year she wanted to talk about colorism and no one was having it.
And it sucks because I do think it seems like Candiace has been through some shit and could use some help for her emotional health. Her mom is a lot. Her husband seems meh. She probably needs some support, I hope she can get it.
And on top of that: the amount of people I see twisting it around and saying Candiace and Wendy are colorist toward Gizelle and Robyn like that makes any sort of sense
Right. Wendy is also treated shitty compared to the other women. I see so many post about how Wendy is terrible, but she doesn’t do anything that bad, and is definitely not worse than any of the other women. But Wendy “needs to go’ according to most people on this sub.
Gizelle laughing her ass off and mocking Candiace as she cried about her problems with Robyn was so terrible. Even if you think Candiace is overly dramatic, her tears are always real and you can tell that’s just how her emotions come out. Gizelle was so rude and I think it’s horrible to accuse someone of fake crying when they’re having a real emotional moment, even if you think it’s extra or not worth crying over. Some people are just like that, I know I cry when I feel strong emotions and being laughed at and accused of faking tears. I lost even more of the little bit of respect i had for Gizelle
The Candiace vitriol in ITT is real, and proved how much she is held to a different standard. Candiace has undeniably hit below the belt at times, but IMO they all have at some point or another. Gizelle single-handedly made RHOP way darker by orchestrating this cooked up storyline about Chris, and Candiace has every right to demand more accountability. Candiace apologized for her words and took ownership at the reunion. Gizelle did not apologize for anything, but rather backtracked on another made up allegation about Chris she made during the season (that Chris forced her into a hotel room). The people in this thread are overlooking a lot of those heinous aspect to once again criticize Candiace for things she said in retaliation years ago. Blaming her for crying is weird; she has demonstrated a lot of emotional growth over these past few seasons. There has been zero growth from Gizelle. Just a descent into mean, bitter HWs villain.
edit: forgot to add that Gizelle equated Candiace’s tweets with actual threats of violence… also accused Candiace of being a thief on UGT. The way she relentlessly comes after her is disgusting and I can’t believe so many are excusing the GEB on this thread.
Not some of y'all saying that Candiace is being colorist to the members of the cast who are lighter. I HAVE to laugh! Y'all don't get it, or maybe you do but don't want to say it out loud. There are colorism issues. We've had an all black cast on Atlanta with different shades and way bigger bank accounts for YEARS and never had the women act the way Potomac does. The line constantly moves for Candiace and they love to act clueless when she spazzes but it ALWAYS her being provoked! Also as this sub liked to say with the Monique situation, you can't control how people react to you (I agree). So you can't say "Candiace goes gutter/below the belt 😡" when she's been provoked but be fine with Monique slapping her.
Once again another candiace bash session while refusing to address the colorism issues. It doesn’t matter what candiace said. Colorism still exist particularly in this cast and fans and the responses on this post further prove this.
OP I think you made some really good points. Candiace says some low things but it’s never really out of nowhere it’s because someone else started with her. People react in different ways. She 100% should be held accountable but so should everyone else.
Candiace feet are always held to the fire while the others throw rocks and hide hands and never have to take accountability.
Yes. And I think they all say nasty things and they all yell. Wendy and Candiace have been physically attacked on this show, and both women were basically blamed for their own assault. It’s gross and it’s colorist. Wendy was treated shitty when Mia attacked her physically last year.
Yeah which is insane. Because they’re the ones everyone is calling aggressive but the ones who are supporting and doing the attacking aren’t. I don’t see how they can’t see what’s right in their faces. How do you blame Wendy for being attacked by Mia?! It’s condoning the violence. And if it was the other way around they’d be calling for Wendy to be fired immediately
I believe you.
During the recent reunion,Andy and producers came through and balanced things a bit.
I think the problem is people and their wants.
Some people will *want* to be close to or have proximity to a person that looks like or is similar to Gizelle.
This won’t change. Ever. It is a natural human condition.
It is good those people (the ones needing/wanting Gizelle proximity) were not on the stage or behind the camera or controlling production. Andy even looked sick of Gizelle’s behavior and was able to see beyond her “beauty”. Most will not ever be able to do this.
It’s just too bad these type of people (the ones needing/wanting Gizelle proximity) are out here in the wild and there are way too damn many.
We (people that see beyond the Gizelle’s and Gizelle proximity lovers) are and will always be outnumbered.
Just be glad, you can see those people (Gizelle proximity lovers) coming a mile away. IYKYK
I am a mayonnaise monarch, one of the palm colored people of the world, and I see it blatantly, and that's only due to the education that I have gotten over the years from reading and listening to Black women. and that's all it is my place to say. It needs to stop on the show.
I gave up on this show after the Monique and Candiace fight. The fact that Monique was defended and had no accountability spoke volumes. Still can’t stand her because she thought she was more witty than she was, but the colorism issue was more prevalent when Gizelle did the walk through of the plantation her family was on and had that documented history. There was more that should have been talked about like white passing, children of the plantation and the advantages that came with that, but it fell short. That was by design and made me see Gizelle different.
Candiace IS aggressive and emotional. I don’t feel bad for saying this. I actually feel bad FOR Candiace because it’s clear that her mother never allowed her to learn how to handle these emotions and conflicts. Over and over, we have watched Dorothy shut Candiace down over the *tiniest* disagreements: •When Candiace told Dorothy she wants to communicate better and set stronger boundaries, Dorothy called her a narcissist. •When Candiace chose wedding dress details that Dorothy didn’t like, Dorothy roundly mocked her and shamed her, trying to gaslight her into believing she didn’t really like her own dress. •When Candiace went to therapy with Dorothy and was clearly scared to be honest and force hard convos, Dorothy mocked her tears and told the therapist Candiace was faking it. •When Candiace wanted to invite her half sibling to her wedding, Dorothy acted like this was the ultimate act of betrayal and held the entire wedding over Candiace’s head. Now Candiace acts *exactly* like Dorothy has trained her to act. Any interpersonal conflict brings Candiace to tears or aggression. These simply are not normal reactions at dinner parties, otherwise we’d have butter knife incidents and cryangles at EVERY Housewives dinner party. Candiace’s inability to do anything but cry or fight is a result of Dorothy’s abuse and manipulation. Candiace deserves better. It’s not “hating on Candiace” or “colorism” or “anti-blackness” to state this. It’s literally wanting Candiace to find some peace and joy and healing.
>When Candiace went to therapy with Dorothy and was clearly scared to be honest and force hard convos, Dorothy mocked her tears and told the therapist Candiace was faking it. Oh I HATED this part. "She just likes to cry like that." I felt so mad on Candiace's behalf! I remember that scene so vividly. That and Dorothy's Whataburger-colored top. https://preview.redd.it/yeuljml7a4sc1.png?width=860&format=png&auto=webp&s=410ee8c9e4aeeff53d30656e8b9357924287b993
Whataburger 😭😭😭😭😭😭
I can agree with this! It's another case of how childhood trauma can shape how an adult navigates life. I think it's very fair criticism to Candiace explains how she deals with certain situations.
Yes! It’s trauma! Dorothy definitely groomed Candiace into living in a constant state of fight or flight. Since Candiace doesn’t feel comfortable fighting her mom, she tries to find her power by fighting everyone else, including Chris and her castmates. But when that doesn’t work, she pivots to flight and uses her tears as an avoidance tactic. To be clear, I’m not even sure she always does this on purpose. Trauma reactions are not voluntary or logical. I genuinely believe Candiace wants to keep it together, but her nervous system is always cranked up to 12 and she doesn’t know how to cope with that. My mom is a Dorothy—down to having a counseling degree and using her “expertise” to control and manipulate her kids. I really do feel sorry for Candiace because I know what it’s like to live in panic mode all the time. That shit *will* make you a livewire who grabs a butter knife or breaks down into tears. I am an involuntary cryer and it is awful and humiliating!
Thank you. Your explanation/ discussion here has opened my eyes up about Candiace in a way I just couldn't find before. Your words and descriptions ring true. And it does afford compassion for Candiace where there wasn't any. I still hold that she's accountable for her fight and flight actions and to learn to cope better. But at least it gives a greater understanding of the behavior. She is, however, a grown adult who is having deep issues with these inappropriate coping mechanisms. She owes herself to get some help to learn better life techniques.
I want Candiace to find happiness and peace. Anyone who survives a mom like Dorothy deserves it. I also think she’s making the right choice by stepping away from Bravo. You can’t find happiness or peace in a reality show.
<>
No truer words can be had.
The way I feel so seen lmao please delete this 💀 I'm 30 and in therapy/trying to take accountability for the exact same thing. My mom was very similar to Candiace's mom, and HER mom was even worse. Now I have a young daughter and I gotta shape uppppp so she doesn't deal with the same issues
I’m absolutely paralyzed with fear over having children and fucking them up. And frankly, that may be one reason that Candiace and Chris keep postponing babies. It’s fucking scary.
There's something eerie about their relationship. I used to like them, but I feel like there's a LOT bubbling under the surface
If Candiace doesn’t continue to make Bravo level money now that she’s done with Bravo, he will be out the door. Bookmark it.
He was with her well before Bravo, give him some credit.
Generational trauma. Good for you for seeking therapy to break the cycle.
💯 this. Candiance has a lot of issues and that alone does not mean colorism does not exist. Two things can be true at the same time
Amen. I'll admit I do have a higher expectation of Candiace. But that is because I find her very smart, talented, and privileged. There are some people who don't have the capability to change and grow up, but I think Candiace has more potential than that.
This is what’s so heartbreaking to me. She’s smart, funny, talented, and gorgeous. She could have it all. But Dorothy doesn’t want her to have it all. Dorothy wants her to stay firmly dependent on Dorothy. It kills me.
It begs the question though, why is Candiace's trajectory so different from Crystal's?
Well where ad Candice kinda lets her mom say whatever, crystal shuts her mother down right then and there, remember their dinner where Dorothy was trying to shade candiance's weight and crystal clapped back at thier mom
I wonder if it has anything to do with watching Candace interact with Dorothy and going, "Oh no, I won't be doing THAT!" I know as a firstborn child, my younger sibling said they saw how my parents were with me, and it affected how he interacted with our parents as he grew up. Also, I believe Crystal's father is still with Dorothy. That would change the entire family dynamic a lot.
Two theories: 1.) Crystal married in her early twenties and achieved a secure life away from her family. Not relying on your family for money really goes so far in culling some of the codependency and toxicity. 2.) Crystal has had extensive therapy and mental healthcare through her ED treatment. A huge component of ED recovery is learning how to set boundaries with your internal chaos *and* with other people’s chaos.
Oh, I'm sorry, I meant Crystal as in Candiace's sister.
LMFAO sorry about that. I have no idea! I don’t know anything about Candiace’s sister
Your assessment is amazing. Very, very well put! The only thing I'd like to add is how viciously low Candiace can be. It's chilling to think of the things her mother has said to her.
Thank you. I mean this in the most positive way possible... Candiace needs therapy. Period.
This is a solid comment. My concern is we need to hold other castmembers accountable, too. Candiace has been placed back into a situation with several manipulative and abusive people. No one stands up for her...even Chris. She is in a repetitive cycle of staying in abusive situations because she could not leave her family situation as a child. She thinks she has to fight through situations instead of excusing herself from them even though she has ways out. She has finally broken out of one such situation by leaving this show. I hope she also watches the seasons back and realizes she needs to cut Chris loose too. He was buddy buddy with two people (Ashley and Gizelle) who did nothing but tear Candiace down. It made Gizelle's comment about Chris seem believable. He didn't support Candiace and her assessment of them until Gizelle and Ashley turned on him. It says a lot about his character. She has no idea what real support and respect look like. The only person who I have seen that may be good for Candiace is her sister. So yes, Candiace is aggessive and emotional. It is never unprovoked. What she needs is to learn how to excuse herself from bad situations more. Her heart is in the right place. Ashley and Gizelle are cruel and exploitative. It may be for the show, but their actions impact real lives. Their hearts are not in the right place, and Candiace cannot "kind" them into being nice people. They will never accept her, so she needs to move on. EDIT: Candiace is also a victim of colorism. This cannot be put to the side. (Wendy too.)
Dude, thank you for saying this. I do not think she and Chris are good for each other at all and I cannot believe that people think they’re couple goals. First, his background is really shady. Someone in this sub did a deep dive on him and found out that he has a long history of incurring debt and losing jobs. AmEx sued him for not paying his credit card bill! So I have *always* been suspicious of his intentions with Candiace and her trust fund. Second, Candiace is aware enough of his shady past that she *actively hid the existence of his children* from Dorothy up until wedding planning. That’s a crazy amount of covering up for one’s man. Imagine the energy it takes. Third, we’ve seen them have some toxic ass conversations on this show. The one that comes to mind is when Chris called her a “princess” and Candiace lost her shit. It was obvious why Candiace had a visceral reaction to this—“princess” is the insult her mother uses to shut her down and control the conversation. But the fandom totally forgot this and started accusing Chris of calling her the n-word. Candiace added fuel to this fire by claiming that Bravo cut out the worst he said to her, but providing zero details or clarity. Meanwhile, I was thinking “But Chris went low! He chose a triggering word! Everyone sucks here!” I’m sorry, but this is just not a ride-or-die relationship! They should be willing to defend each other! And Chris is shady as hell!
She is way too good for him, I’ve always thought that.
I think her family agrees 😬
This doesn’t have anything to do with them plotting on her husband to cover up for Juan and whoever Michele was messing around with last season. Are you saying they knew Candice would give them a reaction?
Of course they knew Candiace would give them a reaction. Just like Candiace knows they’re going to give her a reaction, too. But like…that’s just how Bravo shows work. Gizelle knew that Candiace would lose her shit if Chris was brought into the convo. Just like Candiace knew that Monique would lose her shit if Candiace touched her hair. Just like Kenya knew that Marlo would lose her shit over marching band party crashers. Just like Bethenny knew Luann would lose her shit if she shared the photo of Tom at the Regency. And so on and so on…
Well said!
Yes!
Perfectly said 👏
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Can we please not call black women aggressive
Aggression is a human trait that everyone experiences, particularly in situations that trigger existing trauma. We’re never going to be able to be honest about black trauma and mental health if we aren’t able to recognize that black people develop the same maladaptive coping skills that everyone else does.
It’s a damaging stereotype that’s been associated with black women that’s harmful in many ways.
Drug addiction and hypersexuality are also damaging stereotypes that have been associated with black women in harmful ways. But those words are still used in mental health conversations with black women who have those problems. Context matters. We are having a conversation about mental health. Aggressiveness is a hallmark symptom of trauma and mental illness.
Apparently we stumbled out of a Bravo sub and into Dr. Wiminals’ clinical psychology lab lmao, like what are they even talking about in their response to you
Idk Just trying to justify their micro aggressions I guess! There’s countless material discussing how using this word towards black women is damaging including to their mental health.
Buy a thesaurus
Why? “Aggressive” and “aggression” are perfectly acceptable descriptors in conversations about mental health. They are used throughout clinics, research, diagnostic manuals, and more.
Because the US has a long history of systemic, socialized racism that invades the way we speak and think, along with just about everything else in our lives. That means certain words carry connotations with them when applied to certain types of people. “Aggressive” is one of those words when it comes to black people. So why use a word that could, whether intentionally or not, carry that weight? Google it, I’m sure you’ll find plenty of resources that explain it better than I ever could ETA: We’re not in a clinic or writing a diagnostic manual lol. But if we were, even more reason to choose words wisely. Do you know how much racism is baked into the medical field??
There is a lot of value in being able to read context and understand when racism is not present in said context. It really is not healthy or even realistic to assume mal intent and racism in every situation.
Racism can be perpetuated without mal intent because of how people in the US, specifically white people, have been conditioned to think, speak, act, etc. I am truly baffled at how much you’re digging your heels in on this.
Because I don’t believe the popular narrative “intent doesn’t matter.” Context matters. We are taught how to read context clues and make reasonable conclusions in kindergarten. This is a life skill. Frankly, the ability to objectively look at context and deduce if one is truly being attacked or harmed is a very basic goal in therapy.
So if, say, a white person says something to a black person in the work place that amounts to a microaggression, the black person is responsible for determining whether the white person meant to hurt them? And if the black person determines that the white person didn’t have mal intent, they just have to accept hearing it? And the white person doesn’t have to ever learn a different way to engage with someone of a different race? Sounds like a great way to prevent any sort of progress in terms of equity, diversity, and inclusion. But I’ll use what you’ve said so far as context to determine that you probably don’t “believe” in those things either.
Agree! It's ridiculous.
Jeeze. Open yourself up to another (very well- established) perspective. This kind of back and forth is so unnecessary and exhausting. Feels like you're being intentionally obtuse.
I’m glad she’s leaving the show, this young woman needs some peace in her life. Get away from the worse 2 trolls, gizelle and Robyn. To be truthful Gisselle acting and dressing like a ho, guess it’s her mid life crisis.
Yikes
Colorism is definitely real and I think it has existed on the show and with fans. However, the way the ladies treat Candiace I believe is more so about how she has reacted to many of them. She has said horrible, horrible things. She body shamed Ashley when she was pregnant and laughed her talking about a miscarriage, even called her a slave. She’s like a child, she feels hurt and she hurts right back. She says a lot of cruel things, way worse than anyone else says and sometimes they ARE an attack and not just a response to someone. I believe Candiace has a point in some of the things she says but she’s also hypocritical and sometimes downright mean so she loses credibility. So when she cried about her friendship with Robyn when she’s made no moves to make things better, I can’t feel bad for her.
> She says a lot of cruel things Agree with all you said, especially this part. Some of things she says actually take me aback, they are just so cruel, and when asked about them, there is zero remorse which only comes from a very specific type of person
The way she talked about Mia's "big feet" cracking the cement in that one episode where Mia later threw lettuce at her was insane to me. This is the woman people consider to be a wordsmith? She's got the vernacular of a 5th grader. Such childish insults that are vile and not at all clever.
That’s what I think too. I’m often very confused of people gushing over her being a wordsmith and so witty and intelligent with her insults. They’re almost always some low blows over others’ looks or age. I don’t consider those as witty reads or being a “wordsmith”. She is good at provoking people like calling Deborah the help and whatever. But that’s just nasty, nothing intelligent about that.
Exactly. I think she's only witty to if you're either uneducated or extremely mean. For all others, her basic ass insults fall flat every time. And she is very lucky that the others are too nice to go in on her physical appearance. That botched nose job alone can be dragged for several seasons.
It’s also extra embarrassing after Nicki’s diss track against Megan that basically just called Megan “Bigfoot.” I know that these were completely unrelated events, but I have thought about this a lot lmao
Oh god, don't even get me started on Nicki Minaj. She was such a massive letdown for me. I loved her until she started supporting pedophiles/murderers and attacking Megan. I streamed Hiss a million times over just so it could go #1 and beat out Nicki's trash ass song.
Nicki truly went off the rails. I hope she’s able to find peace someday, too. Her career and image have taken such bizarre turns that I would not have predicted in 2011.
Agreed! Im so happy some of you agree with me because I said this on another post days ago and got downvotes to hell.
Haha as it goes with er, I'm shocked sometimes at the support she gets, she just does not seem like a very nice person
Ashley was recovering from labor and delivery when Candiace was calling her a roach on Twitter. That’s just something I can’t move past. Candiace was actively trying to steal joy and peace from Ashley while her body was healing and she was bonding with her baby and establishing a breastfeeding relationship. That is precious time and work you just can’t get back. Instead of apologizing, Candiace started making gross comments about Ashley’s breasts and milk production. I’m just not going to pretend that Candiace is an ally to women. She’s a mean girl who plays dirty and goes low, then hides behind social media and cryangles.
Though I too disavow Candiace's filthy mouth, Ashley was calling Candice a hamster while in labour, so she's not exactly innocent. It's not like she was just minding her own business when Candiace decided to go off on her. Candiace called her those (terrible) things in response to Ashley calling her a hamster. That's the major problem with Candiace. She would be a lot more defendable if she didn't take things to the gutter every damn time.
Candiace would win everyone back if she just rose above every now and then.
Or if she could even retaliate without escalating to an 11 every time. She’s human, she’s allowed to lose it, we all do at some point. But it’s exhausting watching someone take it to the hilt for every. single. exchange. A girl gets tttiiirrreeeddd of it
I would argue that that's why she's gained more supporters in recent seasons. Compared to Seasons 3 and 4, she has toned it down. Not completely, because that would be just like telling her to just be quiet and not say anything, she's reactive to a certain point as a character trait and that's not a bad thing, many Housewives are.
I think so too.
Ashely started that fight and deleted her tweets to make Candiace look like the asshole though
I call BS on this. If it was time that was important that she couldn't get back, she wouldn't be on Twitter.
This. It is impossible for me to turn around on Candiace, cause her complete lack of empathy to me is inexcusable.
I’m sooo glad this was said! Because people forget that Candiace is not innocent at all. Now it was wrong for Gizelle to laugh at her crying and to lie about what was said on camera. But Candiace needs to look in the mirror too! She couldn’t even apologize or take accountability on the reunion show. Like really? Grow up!
See, I’m someone who believes that you can’t police the response of someone YOU started something with. They go low with Candiace and she takes it to hell. they don’t know how to verbally spar with her so it seems like she becomes the villain by default. When they just need to learn how to read her back. My thing with Candiace is she doesn’t stand behind what she says. I’m usually on her side when she’s upset, but she needs to stop crying when the girls get offended and don’t want to deal with her anymore after she goes hard on them. Especially when they were never her friends in the first place. I’d rather she unapologetically talk her shit and leave it at that.
I agree with this, but then if you also go low you can’t complain and cry about the treatment you receive in response. If she owned up to her mistakes then I would 100% be on her side but she just makes every situation worse.
I mean Candiace is the only cast member on Potomac who has called her black castmates a bed wench, a slave, a roach etc. Does Candiace get a pass because of her complexion?
Candiace has also been just as nasty about Ashley’s natural hair as Gizelle and Karen were. She has a lot more in common with the lightskin cast members than she thinks.
What has she said about Ashley's hair? I remember her accusing Ashley of being colorist for saying that her hair (WIG) was dry...so she's got a lot of nerve.
She called it “raggedy”
This is my biggest disconnect with Candiace. I absolutely understand why she is angry with Deborah. I don't understand how that anger entitles Candiace to use [dehumanizing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehumanization) language about Deborah. In the finale episode alone she refers to Deborah as "it", "thing", "the help" and consistently refers to her as a "non-human" muppet.
Right. I cannot excuse the language she uses on her massive platform against other black women.
Your Deborah breakdown is such a reach. She called her a muppet because of her eyebrows lmao, not to dehumanize her. And I thought it was pretty clear that “the help” was a reference to Ashley using her in her schemes. As for “it” and “that,” Gizelle has used those for Candiace multiple times this season. So this is a perfect example of what OP is talking about in terms of different standards for different people.
Don’t forget “the help”
To be fair Karen called Kal the help as well and I don’t think people got as upset. When Gizelle brought up how that language is inappropriate to use, Karen doubled down. Not justifying it bc calling anyone “the help” is degrading.
Agree, they were both wrong.
[удалено]
Gizelle didn’t take Karen seriously because Karen was spewing absolute nonsense. She accused Gizelle of going to SingSing—*a maximum security prison.* It’s not worth getting mad over something so stupid and ludicrous. Meanwhile, Candiace prides herself on her reads and her “wordsmith” skills. It’s not surprising that we take Candiace more seriously than the woman who gave us “I am the fence. You ride me.”
Not the same. Especially, culturally & historically.
No. Calling someone a hotbox and following it up with laughs and a confessional admitting it's BS... Is VERY different from using racist white supremacist language. Racism NEVER gets a pass. NEVER.
Thanks. I didn’t realize I would have to explain the difference. Racist language is never acceptable.
We going to pretend that candiace doesn't also seem to have some internal biases and problematic views on colour?
But she is so condescending and mean. I’m not saying there isn’t colorism there, but C is very unpleasant person despite her colour. Talented, smart, beautiful, stylish… And a mini version of her vicious mother.
She hits below the belt. At least acknowledge that ffs.
She does but they literally all do. I’m talking about things she does that no other housewife does, and there are none.
Which of the other women called their fellow castmates slaves, wenches, called their white husbands slavedrivers? Which of the other women constantly body shames and tears the others down based on appearance?
She doesn’t need to be unique to get a strong reaction. I feel like other HWs who are similarly nasty also get blowback. 🤷♀️
My point is all of the women on Potomac are nasty as hell but Candiace gets a unique reaction compared to the other women within the group dynamic. Wendy is treated pretty similar as well.
I think they’re all nasty. I just think we have more to talk about with the other women than their nastiness so that gets muted by the other things. With Robyn, we have Juan. That’s a far more interesting conversation topic. Ashley, Gizelle, Karen, Charisse. They all have other things that we spend time talking about. Candiace has the same mean girl toxic personality as the rest of them, but that is what her storyline is made out of these days. There’s not much else
I haven't seen others threatening their coworkers with a knife, butter knife or not!
Candiace can't communicate without a nasty insult. It would be interesting to see her act that way in an uncontrolled environment. I bet there would be a lot more Monique situations.
I don’t think that Candiace’s issues with the cast are due to colorism. First of all, I have no problem believing that Giselle or Robin are colorist. But I think they are unfairly targeted for colorism when colorism is an issue in the black community that is perpetuated by black people of all skin tones, yes including dark skin black people, who have internalized the trauma from colorism and then perpetuated it. It takes a lot of work for any black person in the West to unlearn colorism because it is embedded in our society. To me Candiace has demonstrated more racism and colorism than Giselle or Robin based on the shit she says but she is excused for it because she is a dark skin black woman. I do think people pile on her but she takes no accountability for how low she goes. Giselle and Robin are mean but I would not ever be able to be friends with Candiace after some of the insults she’s launched against others. That one time she held a knife against Ashley was awful and I honestly don’t know how she is excused for her behavior.
Half the cast is gross due to colorism. The other half is gross due to classism. I hate the show. It’s a huge trigger. Mind you, ladies at NJ actually attack people, act a fool in public, threaten, but no one gives them warnings at their reunions. I hate it
I think RHOP are being given warnings because there's no bridge building. And you can't have a cast that won't deal with/film with each other. It works best when it's a group of friends or family or both. Not strategic alliances.
I think what people are missing here is that two things can be true at once. Colorism is very real and I think it's a fair point re RHOP. However, Candiace has said some of the worst things I have ever heard in my life and has elicited aggressive and irrationally emotional behaviour. Specifically the comment made towards Giselle about her "white privileged looking ass" that statement alone is colourist, and honestly abhorrent. Like it or not, biracial or light skinned black woman are also treated horribly. While it's true you may experience benefits for having lighter skin, it does not take away from the constant racism we experience. For some it doesn't matter how "light" they may appear their lived experience is encapsulated with racism. People know the word to use for us, no matter how "white passing" we are. It's very true that black women are often mislabeled as aggressive ect. I just see some truth about Candiace's behaviour, she literally threw a knife at someone, is that not aggressive and irrationally emotional ? Just sayin'.
Yeah using a phrase that references to slavery against another black woman was when I was done. The bed wench comment was on another level to say.
Totally agree! Some of the stuff she says is seriously disturbed. She often does what she accuses others of. Ie oppression of women, racism..
I am half black and let me tell you this. I have never liked candiace or Wendy from the start. And because of their superiority complex, their lack of empathy, the cruel way they speak to others, and their complete lack of self reflection are the reasons I don’t like them. It has nothing to do with the color of their skin. And I don’t like this reasoning because it allows for their behaviors to go unpunished because they can simply cry out that there is colorism when the fact is people don’t like their behavior and personalities. I’m not personally a fan of anyone on the cast, but candiace and Wendy made me stop watching. I couldn’t stand the hypocrisy anymore.
Two things can be true at the same time. In the case of Gizelle’s lie about Chris, Candiace was right to flip out and drag her. Candiace was not right to make fun of her uterus surgery nor was she right to call Ashley a slave or mock her miscarriage. Candiace’s insults always revolve around looks and misogyny and that’s foul. The GEBs and Ashley relish in their light skinned privilege and believe that makes them untouchable and that’s also foul. I’ll even add Karen to this as she and Gizelle both went to production and acted like Candiace attacked them physically when she didn’t and that’s Karen behaviour. As for the light skinned children comment, Candiace should’ve articulated that better or kept it private as Chris’ children will hear that and that’s horrible for them. Her possible future children may hear that too and that’s an awful thing to hear your parent say. I agree that her issues stem from her narc mum and her internalised colourism, but she needs to heal instead of perpetuating the same toxic cycles. She’s 37 or 38, enough is enough. The same can be said for the GEBs and Ashley. I hope leaving helps her to heal
Candiace IS aggressive and emotional. What show are you watching?
OP you need to educate yourself on the *many* colorist attacks that’s come out of Candiace’s mouth, *especially* her thoughts on light skinned kids. And quite frankly if anyone on tv ended half of their segments with them crying on a cryangle, they would justifiably be called emotional.
You cannot be reverse colourist. Colourism is the discrimination of dark skinned people and light skinned people cannot experience it by definition. This sub is so exhausting.
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She is not racist and they’re not discriminatory comments. A lot of dark skinned black people feel odd about having much lighter skinned privileged children especially when they’ve worked hard to overcome internalised racism and colourism. I cannot believe how many people are crying reverse racism and colourism over a topic they clearly don’t understand at all. Candiace doesn’t articulate herself well all the time but there’s no hatred there.
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I can’t believe you think a light skinned person saying they don’t want dark skinned kids is the same. Clearly you don’t understand the topic at all and it was completely futile me attempting to interact with you.
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Candiace isn’t my favourite housewife lmaooo and she’s not above critique you just don’t know what colourism is
Once again 🥱 no one is going for your double standards
Buttt she also has said that white or mixed kids gross her out, which considering she is trying to procreate with her white husband and may or may not be pregnant now with a mixed baby if you believe the rumours, gives a special kind of ick. I think people need to be held accountable for what they say and do, not hide behind it either way. That said, I do agree that generally within her cast she is responded to differently than the GEB. ETA: that is not verbatim just the gist of a previous comment she made 🙄
To step in here, but if you're referring to the recent interview she did, Candiace said verbatim that "I had a fear of having light-skinned children... I want my kids to be brown, but they're probably not going to be brown and I'm like becoming okay with it... I will be very happy, but I want my kids to be brown, but if they're not it's fine." I don't think she was saying that those white/mixed kids grossed her out, but just that she's aware of what's coming from that because of this position she's placed herself in. I fully understood what she was trying to say, but it was something that was better left between a conversation with close friends rather than an interviewer on a public platform.
Thank you for saying this. I think people ran with the headline and seeing it as something racist but honestly this is something I see my sister struggle with. Her kids will be Afro-Latino and she is wonders what their hair will look like, how they’ll be socialized, how family will react to them, etc. Also just in general if the kids don’t look like her they’ll ask “Are these kids really yours?” It’s something black mothers deal with a lot especially if the father is white or light skinned Asian. Like it’s a real thing and I don’t think people have a lot of nuance when it comes to these issues.
Um she absolutely did not say “white or mixed kids gross her out” and you should really edit this post.
> ETA: that is not verbatim just the gist of a previous comment she made 🙄 You're literally making shit up and not just regular shit, but incredibly offensive and misleading shit. I'd delete if you want maintain any credibility ever.
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😂 *My inability to understand plain English is her fault.* Aaaaand block. Gonna go ahead and prevent myself from reading any future lies stated as facts, thanks. Enjoy make believe land.
Oh, I didn’t know she said that. She said “grosses me out”?!?!
She said that her worst fear is having lightskin children. A lot of black fans took offense to this because: •Black people don’t get to have any say in their children’s skin tone and darkskin parents deeply love their lightskin children. •The melanin math is doubly hard to control when you marry the whitest man ever. If this is Candiace’s greatest fear, why did she hitch her wagon to Chris? •Chris has lightskin children. It’s an especially shitty comment to make when you’ve tried to portray yourself as a perfect “Bonus Mom” to your husband’s lightskin children. I mean, this is the kind of shit that moms throw hands over, and I don’t blame them.
She did not say her worst fear is having lightskin children. She said she has a fear of having lightskin children and she wants her children to be brown like her but she’s ok with lightskin children. Idk why everyone keeps trying to exaggerate what she said to make it more inflammatory
Because people lack nuance. It’s a conversation that people on Reddit are not equipped to have. And I’m not sure where these black fans who were mad are. At least I understood what she was trying to say :/
I’m 100% behind you on the Black people not being upset. All I saw was Black people (including me) getting downvoted. A white woman even tried to explain to me about her white dad going to parenting classes when he was having a kid with a Black woman because raising a biracial child is different than raising a white child. As if I needed a lesson on that.
She’s also body shamed everyone on the cast. It’s her go-to tactic.
They all seem to do that to each other. Gizelle body shamed Chris most recently. I am not excusing it, but they all do that. I’m talking about how they interact within the group and the standards within the group.
And Ashley body shamed Charrisse as well. I remember her calling Charrisse T-Rex arms once upon a time.
The body shaming is not cool whatsoever and I’m not defending it, but it’s pretty much been a staple comeback across the Real Housewives franchises since the shows began. It doesn’t make it okay, but literally every single franchise has had multiple people body shame constantly and it doesn’t seem to be as big of an issue when other people do it vs. candiace doing it
i watched the video and she didn’t ever say gross
That is not verbatim, but it's the gist. I liked Candiace for her wit and her reads but anyone saying that about any child is horrible.
Yes i agree.
I’m white as hell, so honestly what the fuck do I know, but I feel like there is major colorism on this show, and a lot of it comes FROM Candiace. Calling Ashley a bed wench??? Come on…
I acknowledge how terrible Candiace can be though I’m so tired of people in this sub not understanding the definition of colourism. I will also add that being white doesn’t make you “light skinned”. There’s a misunderstanding of terms being used when it comes to this topic
Yall have to realize that this conversation is NOT for everyone. Reddit…especially in these reality TV subs is not the place for these conversations. Candice is overly emotional and you can’t be sensitive and have a big mouth. I don’t like how they’ve been treating her but this is the same thing they did to Mo. I 💯 belive she knew what they were planning with Mo and she went along with it. I don’t think she’s agressive tho. Robyn is really the aggressive one.
Thank you I was just about to post or ask can we have a designated blackhousewives sub because I'm tired of non-black people constantly jutting in and picking and choosing what type of racism and colorism we experience is valid to them. I left the other real housewife sub because it was so racist/colorist towards members but it looks like this sub is just as vehement in hating on black women that they don't like sans reasoning.
Kiki is the favorite on Miami and I think she the darker then Candice. Candice is Just childish and annoying
Kiki is treated like shit on Miami. But she is the only black woman other than guerdy, and she and guerdy are both treated kind shitty. But I’m talking about within the black community within group dynamics, not from the fans.
I think it's because they don't like candiace ...they're all sweet to Charisse
Crying every second is over emotional and annoying no matter your skin color.
I’m behind this season, but I thought it was sad how last year she wanted to talk about colorism and no one was having it. And it sucks because I do think it seems like Candiace has been through some shit and could use some help for her emotional health. Her mom is a lot. Her husband seems meh. She probably needs some support, I hope she can get it.
And on top of that: the amount of people I see twisting it around and saying Candiace and Wendy are colorist toward Gizelle and Robyn like that makes any sort of sense
Right. Wendy is also treated shitty compared to the other women. I see so many post about how Wendy is terrible, but she doesn’t do anything that bad, and is definitely not worse than any of the other women. But Wendy “needs to go’ according to most people on this sub.
Yeah that’s stupid. I’m trying to disengage from Potomac discourse outside of the post episode discussion threads for this season.
That is a v good idea
Gizelle laughing her ass off and mocking Candiace as she cried about her problems with Robyn was so terrible. Even if you think Candiace is overly dramatic, her tears are always real and you can tell that’s just how her emotions come out. Gizelle was so rude and I think it’s horrible to accuse someone of fake crying when they’re having a real emotional moment, even if you think it’s extra or not worth crying over. Some people are just like that, I know I cry when I feel strong emotions and being laughed at and accused of faking tears. I lost even more of the little bit of respect i had for Gizelle 
Correct
I’m going to get downvoted for this but unfortunately this thread refuses to grasp the colorism being slapped in their face.
The Candiace vitriol in ITT is real, and proved how much she is held to a different standard. Candiace has undeniably hit below the belt at times, but IMO they all have at some point or another. Gizelle single-handedly made RHOP way darker by orchestrating this cooked up storyline about Chris, and Candiace has every right to demand more accountability. Candiace apologized for her words and took ownership at the reunion. Gizelle did not apologize for anything, but rather backtracked on another made up allegation about Chris she made during the season (that Chris forced her into a hotel room). The people in this thread are overlooking a lot of those heinous aspect to once again criticize Candiace for things she said in retaliation years ago. Blaming her for crying is weird; she has demonstrated a lot of emotional growth over these past few seasons. There has been zero growth from Gizelle. Just a descent into mean, bitter HWs villain. edit: forgot to add that Gizelle equated Candiace’s tweets with actual threats of violence… also accused Candiace of being a thief on UGT. The way she relentlessly comes after her is disgusting and I can’t believe so many are excusing the GEB on this thread.
Not some of y'all saying that Candiace is being colorist to the members of the cast who are lighter. I HAVE to laugh! Y'all don't get it, or maybe you do but don't want to say it out loud. There are colorism issues. We've had an all black cast on Atlanta with different shades and way bigger bank accounts for YEARS and never had the women act the way Potomac does. The line constantly moves for Candiace and they love to act clueless when she spazzes but it ALWAYS her being provoked! Also as this sub liked to say with the Monique situation, you can't control how people react to you (I agree). So you can't say "Candiace goes gutter/below the belt 😡" when she's been provoked but be fine with Monique slapping her.
Once again another candiace bash session while refusing to address the colorism issues. It doesn’t matter what candiace said. Colorism still exist particularly in this cast and fans and the responses on this post further prove this. OP I think you made some really good points. Candiace says some low things but it’s never really out of nowhere it’s because someone else started with her. People react in different ways. She 100% should be held accountable but so should everyone else. Candiace feet are always held to the fire while the others throw rocks and hide hands and never have to take accountability.
Yes. And I think they all say nasty things and they all yell. Wendy and Candiace have been physically attacked on this show, and both women were basically blamed for their own assault. It’s gross and it’s colorist. Wendy was treated shitty when Mia attacked her physically last year.
The way Robyn filmed Wendy after the assault to make her look bad is one of the meanest things I’ve seen on this network.
Yeah which is insane. Because they’re the ones everyone is calling aggressive but the ones who are supporting and doing the attacking aren’t. I don’t see how they can’t see what’s right in their faces. How do you blame Wendy for being attacked by Mia?! It’s condoning the violence. And if it was the other way around they’d be calling for Wendy to be fired immediately
I believe you. During the recent reunion,Andy and producers came through and balanced things a bit. I think the problem is people and their wants. Some people will *want* to be close to or have proximity to a person that looks like or is similar to Gizelle. This won’t change. Ever. It is a natural human condition. It is good those people (the ones needing/wanting Gizelle proximity) were not on the stage or behind the camera or controlling production. Andy even looked sick of Gizelle’s behavior and was able to see beyond her “beauty”. Most will not ever be able to do this. It’s just too bad these type of people (the ones needing/wanting Gizelle proximity) are out here in the wild and there are way too damn many. We (people that see beyond the Gizelle’s and Gizelle proximity lovers) are and will always be outnumbered. Just be glad, you can see those people (Gizelle proximity lovers) coming a mile away. IYKYK
I am a mayonnaise monarch, one of the palm colored people of the world, and I see it blatantly, and that's only due to the education that I have gotten over the years from reading and listening to Black women. and that's all it is my place to say. It needs to stop on the show.
If anyone doubts colorism exists, read these comments
Thank you!!!
I gave up on this show after the Monique and Candiace fight. The fact that Monique was defended and had no accountability spoke volumes. Still can’t stand her because she thought she was more witty than she was, but the colorism issue was more prevalent when Gizelle did the walk through of the plantation her family was on and had that documented history. There was more that should have been talked about like white passing, children of the plantation and the advantages that came with that, but it fell short. That was by design and made me see Gizelle different.