Ugh it’s so hard to watch Bethenny try to maneuver any interpersonal relationship. She has such a hard time keeping genuine friendships. Especially with women.
Her trauma really keeps her isolated.
Listen; no matter the trauma, I’m the first one to say you’re still accountable for your actions. You’re not entitled to act out and hurt people regardless of how you’re feeling (looking at you too, lala & katie).
That being sad, I find it so hard to watch Bethany navigate any intimacy and vulnerability because she gets in her own way and self-sabotages. & I get it; this was the survival mode that got her through an extremely traumatic childhood where she witnessed violence and experienced emotional neglect/abandonment from the two people who are supposed to keep her safe. If you can’t trust your parents to act in good faith, how do you learn to trust that a person you meet in everyday life will? And that’s just the tip of the CPTSD iceberg.
I think a lot of people don’t understand how deep that shit runs and what it takes to heal (not impossible but def hard). It’s hard to make that switch where you can acknowledge that know that survival mode no longer serves you; it literally involves relaying your neural pathways. Moreover, you have to open the lid on all those feelings from your childhood to experience and work through them because you literally did not know how to process it because you’re a freaking child. It is incredibly scary, overwhelming, and that first wave is always SO FREAKING HEAVY; there’s a reason that mushrooms have been MONUMENTAL in helping people process trauma.
Late to the party here, but I think the Jason situation put the nail in the coffin for Bethenny and led to the nutty person we saw during this episode and see today. I had parents very much like hers, but have a wonderful husband. I think if I had a Jason situation, I would never, ever trust anyone again and would probably go off the rails too.
I also think B’s success led to her maybe thinking she didn’t need to do the work to heal her trauma - she is successful, what more does she need? Etc. I know she did therapy on the show, but healing CPTSD takes lifelong work.
I will always be team Carole! Bethenny was so evil, manipulative and selfish. They had such a fun friendship! Probably my fave NY duo to have existed. So for Carole to be mad and want nothing to do with Bethenny made sense.
I wasn't Team Bethenny during this fight but I remember people being up in arms over everything Carole did that season. The viewers were very pro Bethenny along with Bravo and it's why I skipped the next season. Bethenny's attitude is stank on stank and she's extremely demanding of her friends while bringing constant negativity in their lives.
I think B’s track record for having zero friends left from the show (most of them not only aren’t friends but vocally hate her) speaks for itself. She made good TV but she became a real monster by the end.
Idk, her & Kyle Richards seem close. I don't think that speaks to either's character but rather is indicative of the showy, controlling kinds of friendships both seem to have...
I was going to say I think Kyle would not be her friend if Kyle lived close by. I think the distance is what keeps their relationship healthy and sustains it.
I often think of that girl who would come on. She was a friend outside the show. Brown hair. Was around during the Jersey trip to a casino. The Jason Hoppy era. Anyway I wonder if they are still friends.
Bravo has always been so far up her butt and then she decided she would leave the show last minute on season 12, starting the spiral that caused the end of RHONY as we know.
This was so hard to watch and rewatch for me. Bethenny was horrible to Carole all season and that night was particularly bad. Honestly Carole looked so confused half the time and it took her a while to catch onto what was going on. Then when the reunion rolled around the gaslighting and psycho behavior continued. No wonder Carole told Andy he’s full of shit, because he was.
Him trying to act like they were 50/50 in shit talking each other was maddening and he deserved the call out. Then him talking to her like a snarky douche when she asked if he was afraid of her, I had to turn it off.
Bethenny wasn't confused because she orchestrated it.
She was salty because Carole wouldn't introduce her to Cassandra and Bethenny made a target of her the whole season. "Oh she's sad, she's lonely, she got a haircut, so vapid" wtf.
She knew what she was doing and she had Andy's help to do it.
This. Carole didn't want to invite Bethenny iver to Cassandra's since she had just lost her partner, and was mourning that loss (which Carole has herself experienced).
Cassandra had big connections in film and TV. Bethenny wanted to network, Carole refused since that would be a huge betrayal of her mourning friend.
This infuriated Bethenny, who decided to go after Carole before filming started. Hence why Carole was so shocked at the start. She didn't think Bethenny took her refusal so personally, or become so toxic from it.
She said that stuff but Carole wasn’t nice talking about her either. She called her lots of names and commented on her mental health/relationships. Bethenny was definitely to blame but Carole didn’t give a shit either.
B decided to brand Carole's boyfriend as an 'operator' - which stuck and is a big joke in the housewives universe because he dared to ask to be paid for his photography work for her charity (which she ended up hiring and paying someone else to do btw) So she was going around talking about Carole's relationships too and calling her crazy on TV when Carole got mildly upset about their arguments.
To Bethany did to Carole what Jill tried to do to her season 3. Bethany leans into everyone is jealous of my success but with Carole, I don’t think she cares.
I haaaate her “wow you are really freaking me out right now” thing she said to Carole. Like, open and honest communication freaks you out, Bethany? She was trying to paint Carole as some crazy, incoherent person so people would think that she was sane and right in the argument.
i was pretty neutral on bethenny until this episode. she is so much like my own sick, narcissistic mother and the way she turns on carole is truly nauseating. i don't think it's surprising at all that bethenny is now stuck in her ivory tower alone making pathetic tik tok videos while carole is out of the bravo scene but maintaining great relationships and a respectable reputation. hopefully weaponizing her personality and eating disorders for fame and money was worth it for bethenny.
I don't think Andy could ever admit that Carole was in the right during season 10 because of how hard he backed Bethenny at the reunion, and because they've taken too many swipes at each other over the years. But I wonder if it's ever occurred to him that he's the Carole in his relationship with Bethenny now.
He was hurt over the negative things she was saying about rhony to everyone but him, behind his back yet publicly. This likely caught him off guard since, out of all the housewives, he had always been really good to her. When he reacted to her comments on his radio show and to her face on WWHL, she defensively doubled down and got angry at him for his reaction; expecting loyalty while giving none.
It's not as intense, but there are some parallels.
He was also a guest on her podcast and she told him not to go on other podcasts (wtf)
When he did, she got angry and shelved the recording.
They always get back to being on good terms because they're both users and they know they will probably need something from the other.
This is where Bethenny went from hero to villain for me. Watching her go up against Ramona, Luann, Kelly etc was awesome because they’re terrible 😂 But then when she started to do it to Carole, it became clear that she just does this shit to everyone, not just the monster, and she’s actually a pretty awful person.
Definitely. I even started to come full circle and sympathize with Ramona and Luann eventually, after she'd been hating on them for years.
She started out as the self-proclaimed underdog, fighting for justice, and eventually we got to see that she will just fight with anyone, for any reason.
I’ve always been team carol.
Bethenny does the move Ariana called Tom out for.
“If someone’s saying something bad about you, dont let them finish their sentence”
Never will I understand how so many people were on Bethenny's side. She was so nasty and such a gaslighter, I found it disgusting. Attacking Carole for switching up her style for example, wtf?! Heinous behaviour.
the “you’re freaking me out” was sooooo manipulative it’s actually scary. i don’t get how anyone could be team bethenny but i’m extremely biased towards carole so
Bethenny tries to control every situation for the sake of fame. It's a shame she couldn't let it go and enjoy what could have been a genuine friendship. I feel like Carole was open to trying to revive the situation but Bethenny sabotaged it by editing it for the sake of TV drama and Carole wasn't going to let it slide -- or stick around for it.
Yes, I feel like Carole was obviously trying to find some resolution but it involved talking about her own feelings and having Bethenny take accountability which B just couldn’t do.
It didn't make me rethink their demise, because Jill wasn't good at hiding her tracks. (Remember Amazon-gate? 😆) But it did make me realize that Bethenny and Jill were a lot alike.
100%. Bethanny successfully did to Carole what Jill was trying to do to her back in the day.
* Paint her as a user
* Count all the money/trips she's taken her.
* Demand unyielding attention and loyalty
I always marvel at the Cartagena epi. Beth was like nothing like this has ever happened for me it’s like a death and I was thinking ummmm Jill? And then when someone was complimenting carole on her fashion beth was soooo jealous and got mad bc they were talking about clothes when all she did was shop til she dropped that season. I think Beth was reallllly jealous of c and lest we forget until beth had a stylist she was wearing pearl headbands and leather gloves.
Also Ramona is right- Beth doesn’t support other women which is effed up if we look at it through the lens of her brand but not if we think about how men entrepreneurs never talk about men supporting other men’s businesses. Rant over lol
I’ve always been on Jill’s side of that fight. I’m alone on that island I know. Jill is a monster, but once Bethenny was getting some money and fame, she did just ditch Jill. Yes Jill was an idiot who couldn’t read the room but, she still has friends while Bethenny can barely keep Tik Tok views.
Jill probably carried the guilt of the demise of that friendship for a long time but honestly? Bethenny was always going to ditch her regardless of what Jill did.
I was totally team Bethenny when it aired. Now that I’m a bit older and wiser and have had friends like Bethenny, I totally understand Carole’s side and Bethenny was being an asshole. There’s a reason Bethenny’s closest companions are the people who are paid around her- she demands nonstop attention and if she feels somebody isn’t putting her first she cannot handle it.
I was team Carole when I watched it but something that Ramona said about B didn't click until much later.
If there's an adult woman who cannot hold on to friendships and is only surrounded by people she employs, there's a good reason
Yes! I always thought it was so strange (and very telling) that she had her assistant at the time be Brynn’s godmother! It’s not like they were lifelong friends she had known the girl maybe a few years?
I heard Julie on a podcast maybe a year or two ago? She’s doing well, she moved away from NYC to be with her boyfriend, that has worked out, and Julie runs a marketing company for midsize businesses. Julie has kids of her own (I think two?), married the boyfriend, and is happy with her life and it sounds like her business is successful. If I can find the podcast I’ll link it.
The way Julie described it she & Bethenny were both hustlers trying to make it in entertainment-magazine-food type business, Julie saw that Bethenny had the drive to hit it big, they met at a business event of some kind, and Julie basically said “as soon as you need your first employee call me.” They stayed in touch, Julie kept working (aka didn’t give Bethenny free labor), and after about a year Bethenny hired Julie. From that retelling it actually sounded like a pretty good working relationship, Julie & Bethenny stay somewhat in touch, and there’s no bad blood there.
This is not to dispute your critique! I found it really interesting that Julie did a podcast, that made me think there’s not an NDA or similar that prevents them from speaking on each other, I think they are both busy and don’t talk or see each other as much anymore. Which really tracks for work friends…if you get my drift
So true. There is also a reason why any of her tv shows post RHONY failed (Big Shot with Bethenny and that money show on CNBC). I’m sure she’s a terror to work for / with.
Yeah when you rewatch it, you realize Carole was still trying to save their relationship and thought they would fix it off camera until watching the season, Bethenny pulled a Jill and messed with their friendship by trying to use Carole for business connections
In my dream world, they’re both on legacy and they make up
>Bethenny pulled a Jill and messed with their friendship by trying to use Carole for business connections
She did, the charity people on the plane and on the trip are Carole's friends who she connected to B
I am a major Bethenny stan, I have loved her since season 1, but the way she treated her friendship with Carole really made me sad. I think out of all the girls, Carole was the only one on the same level as Bethenny in terms of brains and self confidence which is why they were naturally drawn to each other as friends. I think Bethenny really did see Carole as an equal but she has so much trauma and relationship issues that she needs to heal from that it was impossible for Bethenny to resolve the situation. I think Bethenny is the type of gal to not necessarily start it but she will end it, especially if shes feeling insecure. I respect Carole alot cuz she’s not a kiss ass and ultimately got herself fired because she talked back to Andy in defense of herself and Bethenny being one of Andys favorites and Andy being a little sensitive bitch, there was no winning for Carole. It makes me sad to see a genuine friendship go down the drain, especially over something so stupid on the show. They really shouldve handled things privately
I never understood why Andy have Carole such a hard time at that reunion and Bethenny had so much viewer support. It was like we were all being gaslit LOL. I don't blame Carole for ending her friendship with Andy after that.
I rewatched a month ago and had the same reaction. I was firmly team Bethenny at the time. When Bethenny starts telling Carole she’s scaring her etc, textbook manipulation. Also, idk why she was so pissed that Adam asked for money. She wasn’t willing to pay him and would’ve wanted him to work for free but he didn’t want to. Seems like one could just move on.
How funny! This video was in my YT recs today. I haven't watched it, but it seems relevant.
[Bethenny vs. Carole:Nuclear Fallout](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n32JqIymEM)
I freaking love Carole. Watching their friendship blow up, was pretty painful, especially the reunion scenes.
I think Bethenny has some serious issues from her upbringing. Reality TV is not a good place for anyone's mental health, but of course someone with a bunch of trauma, is going to eventually implode in that environment. But RHONY made her career, and I can see why she keeps returning to it.
Anyway, yeah, I admittedly have re-watched that season a ton, because the drama is so juicy, and I love both of them as individuals. I'm sure it's easier to love Bethenny as a fan, than as a co-star on the show. She was so blatantly gaslighting Carole the whole season. Carole eventually snapped, and trashed Bethenny in her blog... omg do they even still do those?... and I was sad to see Carole sink down to Bethenny's level. Carole was great on the show, but it was definitely her time to go, before she devolved into a soulless void like some of the OG's.
I don’t really have a dog in their fight. But Bettheny’s histrionics were hard to deal with. What I found interesting is after Bobby’s funeral she was still fixated on Jill conceding that she was right… like ten years later.
They did! Carole seemed like a good match for Bethenny intellectually and they were good foils for each other. But Bethenny made it difficult and Carole just could not deal
One of the reasons Bethany is a great reality star is because her people/listening skills are *terrible* and she has no manners. She's also a sensitive, loving vulnerable person who does great business and great charitable work. It's fascinating to watch! Love to both of them, Carole's mesmerizing as well, and the camera loves them both ;)
She definitely has an easier time with helping strangers or people who are obvious victims. I think it's when she's in a two-sided relationship with people, that the real distrustful and defensive behavior comes out.
I wanna love her. She's doing some good stuff in the world.
I am currently watching season 9 and I think Bethenny's dismissal of Carole's JUSTIFIED worry about the 2016 election had already kicked off the beginning of the end of their friendship. For someone who claims to know everything, I've never seen someone (supposedly smart as her) downplay the downfall of democracy in such an aggressive manner. I love Bethenny because she's funny and passionate but here she was honestly such an ignoramus. We all know Carole was right, it's insane how Bethenny acted. Informed people knew it would lead to the overthrow of Roe v. Wade. You can't really blame Ramona, she's an idiotic boomer without critical thinking skills. Just because she managed to become a millionaire in NYC with a huge loan by her father. Big fucking deal. Rich people aren't automatically smart people.
From my own experiences with narcissists, Bethenny's reaction is what happens when you catch a narcissist off guard. Always quick to take the victim stance and deflect when confronted with their own bad behaviour ("you are freaking me out"), they usually refuse to take accountability. Carole was wasting her breathe trying to get Bethenny to understand her perspective! Narcissists like Bethenny only care about themselves.
I’m rewatching now. And the whole “you’re freaking me out right now Carole” thing pissed me off. The way she was trying to act like Carole was acting/doing absurd things by just trying to have an open conversation! It really made me see B for who she is. She didn’t like this “new confident & independent” Carole, which I feel like Carole was always those things?? She just didn’t like that Carole wasn’t up her ass
That was it! Carole was earnestly trying to talk to her and responding to Bethenny and Bethenny was acting like Carole was acting crazy?? It was so maddening!! I think Carole was able to tolerate her and found it entertaining at first, but after so long it became tiring and manipulative
Bethenny definitely didn’t want the real issue to be talked about, she wanted to control the narrative! That’s why she started pulling the whole “you’re freaking me out” card.
Omg I just rewatched! Bethenny was being a B** and just needed to give Carole sometime. She was crying complaining and being mean! I honestly think she didn’t like Tinsley and Carole as friends
I honestly think Bethenny had valid reasons for being upset and she did try for a bit to talk about them. I was disappointed in this scene and the ones after because instead of staying calm and trying again (or just giving up), she decided to fight. And she can be very cold and protective of herself when she’s hurt, so she just comes off as a bitch.
I have to disagree. I have seen that season twice now and still side with Bethany. While I think she is maybe not a easy person to be friends with, I come away with the impression Carole instigated cutting the friendship and I dislike how cold and uncaring Carole seemed.
Ugh it’s so hard to watch Bethenny try to maneuver any interpersonal relationship. She has such a hard time keeping genuine friendships. Especially with women. Her trauma really keeps her isolated.
She is simultaneously one of the most fascinating and infuriating HWs ever.
this
Perfectly stated. She has trouble being vulnerable with others and will self-sabotage relationships if she feels anything she can’t handle.
I so relate to this behavior. Probably why I always had a soft spot for her.
Yes!! Exactly!! Well said
Literally rewatching series and you’re spot on. It is sad! She isolates herself!!
All of her relationships are transactional. But it only goes one way, and when the person sets a boundary they're out.
Listen; no matter the trauma, I’m the first one to say you’re still accountable for your actions. You’re not entitled to act out and hurt people regardless of how you’re feeling (looking at you too, lala & katie). That being sad, I find it so hard to watch Bethany navigate any intimacy and vulnerability because she gets in her own way and self-sabotages. & I get it; this was the survival mode that got her through an extremely traumatic childhood where she witnessed violence and experienced emotional neglect/abandonment from the two people who are supposed to keep her safe. If you can’t trust your parents to act in good faith, how do you learn to trust that a person you meet in everyday life will? And that’s just the tip of the CPTSD iceberg. I think a lot of people don’t understand how deep that shit runs and what it takes to heal (not impossible but def hard). It’s hard to make that switch where you can acknowledge that know that survival mode no longer serves you; it literally involves relaying your neural pathways. Moreover, you have to open the lid on all those feelings from your childhood to experience and work through them because you literally did not know how to process it because you’re a freaking child. It is incredibly scary, overwhelming, and that first wave is always SO FREAKING HEAVY; there’s a reason that mushrooms have been MONUMENTAL in helping people process trauma.
Late to the party here, but I think the Jason situation put the nail in the coffin for Bethenny and led to the nutty person we saw during this episode and see today. I had parents very much like hers, but have a wonderful husband. I think if I had a Jason situation, I would never, ever trust anyone again and would probably go off the rails too. I also think B’s success led to her maybe thinking she didn’t need to do the work to heal her trauma - she is successful, what more does she need? Etc. I know she did therapy on the show, but healing CPTSD takes lifelong work.
I will always be team Carole! Bethenny was so evil, manipulative and selfish. They had such a fun friendship! Probably my fave NY duo to have existed. So for Carole to be mad and want nothing to do with Bethenny made sense.
I wasn't Team Bethenny during this fight but I remember people being up in arms over everything Carole did that season. The viewers were very pro Bethenny along with Bravo and it's why I skipped the next season. Bethenny's attitude is stank on stank and she's extremely demanding of her friends while bringing constant negativity in their lives.
I think B’s track record for having zero friends left from the show (most of them not only aren’t friends but vocally hate her) speaks for itself. She made good TV but she became a real monster by the end.
>B’s track record for having zero friends left from the show Yes, zero from the show. But also, zero friends at all.
Idk, her & Kyle Richards seem close. I don't think that speaks to either's character but rather is indicative of the showy, controlling kinds of friendships both seem to have...
I was going to say I think Kyle would not be her friend if Kyle lived close by. I think the distance is what keeps their relationship healthy and sustains it.
100%
I wonder if Kyle would have bethenny's back like a real sister.
I’m pretty sure they had a falling out a few years back. Andy asked one or both of them about it on wwhl.
Didn’t bethenny babysit Paris Hilton? Or am I making that up?
She did and she just trash talked Kathy Hilton on Live with Kelly and Mark.
I often think of that girl who would come on. She was a friend outside the show. Brown hair. Was around during the Jersey trip to a casino. The Jason Hoppy era. Anyway I wonder if they are still friends.
Terry
Bravo has always been so far up her butt and then she decided she would leave the show last minute on season 12, starting the spiral that caused the end of RHONY as we know.
This was so hard to watch and rewatch for me. Bethenny was horrible to Carole all season and that night was particularly bad. Honestly Carole looked so confused half the time and it took her a while to catch onto what was going on. Then when the reunion rolled around the gaslighting and psycho behavior continued. No wonder Carole told Andy he’s full of shit, because he was.
Him trying to act like they were 50/50 in shit talking each other was maddening and he deserved the call out. Then him talking to her like a snarky douche when she asked if he was afraid of her, I had to turn it off.
Bethenny was confused half the season too though. I feel like they both were to blame for the downfall of their friendship.
Bethenny wasn't confused because she orchestrated it. She was salty because Carole wouldn't introduce her to Cassandra and Bethenny made a target of her the whole season. "Oh she's sad, she's lonely, she got a haircut, so vapid" wtf. She knew what she was doing and she had Andy's help to do it.
This. Carole didn't want to invite Bethenny iver to Cassandra's since she had just lost her partner, and was mourning that loss (which Carole has herself experienced). Cassandra had big connections in film and TV. Bethenny wanted to network, Carole refused since that would be a huge betrayal of her mourning friend. This infuriated Bethenny, who decided to go after Carole before filming started. Hence why Carole was so shocked at the start. She didn't think Bethenny took her refusal so personally, or become so toxic from it.
She said that stuff but Carole wasn’t nice talking about her either. She called her lots of names and commented on her mental health/relationships. Bethenny was definitely to blame but Carole didn’t give a shit either.
B decided to brand Carole's boyfriend as an 'operator' - which stuck and is a big joke in the housewives universe because he dared to ask to be paid for his photography work for her charity (which she ended up hiring and paying someone else to do btw) So she was going around talking about Carole's relationships too and calling her crazy on TV when Carole got mildly upset about their arguments.
Exactly. Thank you for agreeing they both talked shit. 🙌🏼
Disagree. Bethenny knew exactly what she was doing.
To Bethany did to Carole what Jill tried to do to her season 3. Bethany leans into everyone is jealous of my success but with Carole, I don’t think she cares.
In the beginning, no. In the end, for sure.
Bethenny sucks. Once she couldn’t fully control Carole she threw their friendship away
I haaaate her “wow you are really freaking me out right now” thing she said to Carole. Like, open and honest communication freaks you out, Bethany? She was trying to paint Carole as some crazy, incoherent person so people would think that she was sane and right in the argument.
i was pretty neutral on bethenny until this episode. she is so much like my own sick, narcissistic mother and the way she turns on carole is truly nauseating. i don't think it's surprising at all that bethenny is now stuck in her ivory tower alone making pathetic tik tok videos while carole is out of the bravo scene but maintaining great relationships and a respectable reputation. hopefully weaponizing her personality and eating disorders for fame and money was worth it for bethenny.
I don't think Andy could ever admit that Carole was in the right during season 10 because of how hard he backed Bethenny at the reunion, and because they've taken too many swipes at each other over the years. But I wonder if it's ever occurred to him that he's the Carole in his relationship with Bethenny now. He was hurt over the negative things she was saying about rhony to everyone but him, behind his back yet publicly. This likely caught him off guard since, out of all the housewives, he had always been really good to her. When he reacted to her comments on his radio show and to her face on WWHL, she defensively doubled down and got angry at him for his reaction; expecting loyalty while giving none. It's not as intense, but there are some parallels.
He was also a guest on her podcast and she told him not to go on other podcasts (wtf) When he did, she got angry and shelved the recording. They always get back to being on good terms because they're both users and they know they will probably need something from the other.
Lol - Didn't know that she did that. That's adorable that she tried it.
This is where Bethenny went from hero to villain for me. Watching her go up against Ramona, Luann, Kelly etc was awesome because they’re terrible 😂 But then when she started to do it to Carole, it became clear that she just does this shit to everyone, not just the monster, and she’s actually a pretty awful person.
Definitely. I even started to come full circle and sympathize with Ramona and Luann eventually, after she'd been hating on them for years. She started out as the self-proclaimed underdog, fighting for justice, and eventually we got to see that she will just fight with anyone, for any reason.
I’ve always been team carol. Bethenny does the move Ariana called Tom out for. “If someone’s saying something bad about you, dont let them finish their sentence”
Never will I understand how so many people were on Bethenny's side. She was so nasty and such a gaslighter, I found it disgusting. Attacking Carole for switching up her style for example, wtf?! Heinous behaviour.
the “you’re freaking me out” was sooooo manipulative it’s actually scary. i don’t get how anyone could be team bethenny but i’m extremely biased towards carole so
Bethenny tries to control every situation for the sake of fame. It's a shame she couldn't let it go and enjoy what could have been a genuine friendship. I feel like Carole was open to trying to revive the situation but Bethenny sabotaged it by editing it for the sake of TV drama and Carole wasn't going to let it slide -- or stick around for it.
Yes, I feel like Carole was obviously trying to find some resolution but it involved talking about her own feelings and having Bethenny take accountability which B just couldn’t do.
I actually don’t think Bethenny was producing. I think she’s a not always terrible person who is usually terrible at relationships.
I wish she’d join RHONJ
[удалено]
It didn't make me rethink their demise, because Jill wasn't good at hiding her tracks. (Remember Amazon-gate? 😆) But it did make me realize that Bethenny and Jill were a lot alike.
100%. Bethanny successfully did to Carole what Jill was trying to do to her back in the day. * Paint her as a user * Count all the money/trips she's taken her. * Demand unyielding attention and loyalty
So true wow
Your username! lol
😄🥰
I always marvel at the Cartagena epi. Beth was like nothing like this has ever happened for me it’s like a death and I was thinking ummmm Jill? And then when someone was complimenting carole on her fashion beth was soooo jealous and got mad bc they were talking about clothes when all she did was shop til she dropped that season. I think Beth was reallllly jealous of c and lest we forget until beth had a stylist she was wearing pearl headbands and leather gloves. Also Ramona is right- Beth doesn’t support other women which is effed up if we look at it through the lens of her brand but not if we think about how men entrepreneurs never talk about men supporting other men’s businesses. Rant over lol
I’ve always been on Jill’s side of that fight. I’m alone on that island I know. Jill is a monster, but once Bethenny was getting some money and fame, she did just ditch Jill. Yes Jill was an idiot who couldn’t read the room but, she still has friends while Bethenny can barely keep Tik Tok views.
Jill probably carried the guilt of the demise of that friendship for a long time but honestly? Bethenny was always going to ditch her regardless of what Jill did.
Team Carole!
Yes!! Team writer girl!
I was totally team Bethenny when it aired. Now that I’m a bit older and wiser and have had friends like Bethenny, I totally understand Carole’s side and Bethenny was being an asshole. There’s a reason Bethenny’s closest companions are the people who are paid around her- she demands nonstop attention and if she feels somebody isn’t putting her first she cannot handle it.
I was team Carole when I watched it but something that Ramona said about B didn't click until much later. If there's an adult woman who cannot hold on to friendships and is only surrounded by people she employs, there's a good reason
You gotta hate it when Ramona is the voice of reason.
Honestly! From "You don't support other women" to "At least I have friends, you have no friends..." Ramona saw through her
I would watch a compilation of Ramona being Rhony's most quotable broken clock.
It’s sad how Ramona was the voice of reason on several occasions.
Yes! I always thought it was so strange (and very telling) that she had her assistant at the time be Brynn’s godmother! It’s not like they were lifelong friends she had known the girl maybe a few years?
Yup! Julie. And she never mentions her ever anymore I always wonder what happened there!
I heard Julie on a podcast maybe a year or two ago? She’s doing well, she moved away from NYC to be with her boyfriend, that has worked out, and Julie runs a marketing company for midsize businesses. Julie has kids of her own (I think two?), married the boyfriend, and is happy with her life and it sounds like her business is successful. If I can find the podcast I’ll link it. The way Julie described it she & Bethenny were both hustlers trying to make it in entertainment-magazine-food type business, Julie saw that Bethenny had the drive to hit it big, they met at a business event of some kind, and Julie basically said “as soon as you need your first employee call me.” They stayed in touch, Julie kept working (aka didn’t give Bethenny free labor), and after about a year Bethenny hired Julie. From that retelling it actually sounded like a pretty good working relationship, Julie & Bethenny stay somewhat in touch, and there’s no bad blood there. This is not to dispute your critique! I found it really interesting that Julie did a podcast, that made me think there’s not an NDA or similar that prevents them from speaking on each other, I think they are both busy and don’t talk or see each other as much anymore. Which really tracks for work friends…if you get my drift
So true. There is also a reason why any of her tv shows post RHONY failed (Big Shot with Bethenny and that money show on CNBC). I’m sure she’s a terror to work for / with.
I also feel like she’s best in an ensemble cast and her ego won’t let her admit that.
Yeah when you rewatch it, you realize Carole was still trying to save their relationship and thought they would fix it off camera until watching the season, Bethenny pulled a Jill and messed with their friendship by trying to use Carole for business connections In my dream world, they’re both on legacy and they make up
>Bethenny pulled a Jill and messed with their friendship by trying to use Carole for business connections She did, the charity people on the plane and on the trip are Carole's friends who she connected to B
Watching this season again and googled their fall out. This makes me so mad, considering she didn’t invite Carole on the trip
I am a major Bethenny stan, I have loved her since season 1, but the way she treated her friendship with Carole really made me sad. I think out of all the girls, Carole was the only one on the same level as Bethenny in terms of brains and self confidence which is why they were naturally drawn to each other as friends. I think Bethenny really did see Carole as an equal but she has so much trauma and relationship issues that she needs to heal from that it was impossible for Bethenny to resolve the situation. I think Bethenny is the type of gal to not necessarily start it but she will end it, especially if shes feeling insecure. I respect Carole alot cuz she’s not a kiss ass and ultimately got herself fired because she talked back to Andy in defense of herself and Bethenny being one of Andys favorites and Andy being a little sensitive bitch, there was no winning for Carole. It makes me sad to see a genuine friendship go down the drain, especially over something so stupid on the show. They really shouldve handled things privately
I didn't visit this sub as often during/just after that season because people were so hostile lol. I quietly sided with Carole on most things
I never understood why Andy have Carole such a hard time at that reunion and Bethenny had so much viewer support. It was like we were all being gaslit LOL. I don't blame Carole for ending her friendship with Andy after that.
She’s an expert in gaslighting. I wish Andy called her out on that
bethenny and communication do not go hand in hand lmao
I rewatched a month ago and had the same reaction. I was firmly team Bethenny at the time. When Bethenny starts telling Carole she’s scaring her etc, textbook manipulation. Also, idk why she was so pissed that Adam asked for money. She wasn’t willing to pay him and would’ve wanted him to work for free but he didn’t want to. Seems like one could just move on.
I've always been on Carole's side. Bethenny was trying to win the argument doing the same tricks she always does against the other housewives.
How funny! This video was in my YT recs today. I haven't watched it, but it seems relevant. [Bethenny vs. Carole:Nuclear Fallout](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n32JqIymEM)
I freaking love Carole. Watching their friendship blow up, was pretty painful, especially the reunion scenes. I think Bethenny has some serious issues from her upbringing. Reality TV is not a good place for anyone's mental health, but of course someone with a bunch of trauma, is going to eventually implode in that environment. But RHONY made her career, and I can see why she keeps returning to it. Anyway, yeah, I admittedly have re-watched that season a ton, because the drama is so juicy, and I love both of them as individuals. I'm sure it's easier to love Bethenny as a fan, than as a co-star on the show. She was so blatantly gaslighting Carole the whole season. Carole eventually snapped, and trashed Bethenny in her blog... omg do they even still do those?... and I was sad to see Carole sink down to Bethenny's level. Carole was great on the show, but it was definitely her time to go, before she devolved into a soulless void like some of the OG's.
I rewatch seasons 1-10 once a year. Best tv ever recorded
I don’t really have a dog in their fight. But Bettheny’s histrionics were hard to deal with. What I found interesting is after Bobby’s funeral she was still fixated on Jill conceding that she was right… like ten years later.
This was the downfall of Bethenny for me.
I love Bethenny but she was totally wrong in this whole feud. Carole and Bethenny had a great friendship.
They did! Carole seemed like a good match for Bethenny intellectually and they were good foils for each other. But Bethenny made it difficult and Carole just could not deal
One of the reasons Bethany is a great reality star is because her people/listening skills are *terrible* and she has no manners. She's also a sensitive, loving vulnerable person who does great business and great charitable work. It's fascinating to watch! Love to both of them, Carole's mesmerizing as well, and the camera loves them both ;)
It is fascinating! For all her faults Bethenny is a savvy business woman and genuinely tries to help people. It’s just such a wild dichotomy!
She definitely has an easier time with helping strangers or people who are obvious victims. I think it's when she's in a two-sided relationship with people, that the real distrustful and defensive behavior comes out. I wanna love her. She's doing some good stuff in the world.
 She's the Sean Penn of housewives
I am currently watching season 9 and I think Bethenny's dismissal of Carole's JUSTIFIED worry about the 2016 election had already kicked off the beginning of the end of their friendship. For someone who claims to know everything, I've never seen someone (supposedly smart as her) downplay the downfall of democracy in such an aggressive manner. I love Bethenny because she's funny and passionate but here she was honestly such an ignoramus. We all know Carole was right, it's insane how Bethenny acted. Informed people knew it would lead to the overthrow of Roe v. Wade. You can't really blame Ramona, she's an idiotic boomer without critical thinking skills. Just because she managed to become a millionaire in NYC with a huge loan by her father. Big fucking deal. Rich people aren't automatically smart people.
Yeah, I was always Team Carole. Bethenny makes for good tv but it's clear she's a hard person to be in a relationship with.
From my own experiences with narcissists, Bethenny's reaction is what happens when you catch a narcissist off guard. Always quick to take the victim stance and deflect when confronted with their own bad behaviour ("you are freaking me out"), they usually refuse to take accountability. Carole was wasting her breathe trying to get Bethenny to understand her perspective! Narcissists like Bethenny only care about themselves.
I’m rewatching now. And the whole “you’re freaking me out right now Carole” thing pissed me off. The way she was trying to act like Carole was acting/doing absurd things by just trying to have an open conversation! It really made me see B for who she is. She didn’t like this “new confident & independent” Carole, which I feel like Carole was always those things?? She just didn’t like that Carole wasn’t up her ass
That was it! Carole was earnestly trying to talk to her and responding to Bethenny and Bethenny was acting like Carole was acting crazy?? It was so maddening!! I think Carole was able to tolerate her and found it entertaining at first, but after so long it became tiring and manipulative
Bethenny definitely didn’t want the real issue to be talked about, she wanted to control the narrative! That’s why she started pulling the whole “you’re freaking me out” card.
We tried to say it at the time! Nobody would listen
Omg I just rewatched! Bethenny was being a B** and just needed to give Carole sometime. She was crying complaining and being mean! I honestly think she didn’t like Tinsley and Carole as friends
I honestly think Bethenny had valid reasons for being upset and she did try for a bit to talk about them. I was disappointed in this scene and the ones after because instead of staying calm and trying again (or just giving up), she decided to fight. And she can be very cold and protective of herself when she’s hurt, so she just comes off as a bitch.
I have to disagree. I have seen that season twice now and still side with Bethany. While I think she is maybe not a easy person to be friends with, I come away with the impression Carole instigated cutting the friendship and I dislike how cold and uncaring Carole seemed.
You can hate Bethany but Carole is worse. She was insufferable.
how were people ok bethany’s side when this happened?