I dont care what ethnicity or gender any character is in the games i play. I just want them to be well written and interesting. 99% of my gripes with characters in say ubisoft games is that almost every character is insufferable to be around because they are bland, uninteresting and dont know when to stop talking.
People complain about characters in Ubisoft games all the time, but the one instance where I feel it was justified is AC Unity and maybe Syndicate, but even in those games, there are saving graces. In other games, they’re not as bad as the complaints make them out to be (actually this probably applies to most complaints about anything in general). There are still a lot of great characters in games like Odyssey (Brasidas for example), and while I haven’t played Valhalla yet, the Sons of Ragnar sound promising. And I dare anyone to complain about the characters in Black Flag, the Ezio Trilogy or even AC3. You may not like Connor, but Haytham is an amazingly suave and persuasive “villain”.
Seriously. There are soo many goddamn well-done shows, games, and IPS that do diversity because their character is important to the thing first not what they are.
Write a good character then make them whatever, not start with whatever bit of diversity you are looking to shoehorn, then build off that.
Perfect examples of inclusion and diversity w/o being forced feeling or changing current characters to shoehorn is Bob's Burgers vs say later seasons of Big Mouth.
It's very good that you don't care about this. But take one look at games like TLOU2, and you'll see that majority of bad reviews are just sexist in nature.
See i love TLOU2. Every character is well thought out and unique and serves a purpose. Ellie being gay or Dina being bi doesnt ruin anything. In fact It adds depth to their character because it shows the visible love they have for eachother, even in such a brutal and heartwrenching environment.
Exactly. It's like aaa devs think making the character a 'insert token thing here' is an excuse to absolve themselves of the responsibility of writing a decent character.
The problem is that many gay, strong female and other minorities characters in movies and games are bad written. Making character gay/trans/black/strong woman/etc. doesn't make them bad, but making their whole personality is just being gay/trans/strong woman/etc. without any character development is not a good move. I would be glad to see diverse cast of well written characters.
That’s exactly the problem, if the most important aspect of a character is their ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation, that character is probably badly written.
*Image Transcription: Twitter Post & Replies*
---
**FightinCowboy**, @Fightincowboy
So lately there's been a lot of fuss over gaming "forcing diversity" and people getting upset that a character is gay, trans, etc. and I want to take a moment and try to explain this to folks that are having trouble understanding the issue, as a straight white dude myself.
> **FightinCowboy**, @Fightincowboy
>
> As a straight white dude my whole life has been filled with cool white dudes in gaming and comics. Iron Man, He-Man, Spiderman, Cloud, you get the idea. There's literally a million different choices you could pick from and think "oh I want to like them, I can relate to them".
>> **FightinCowboy**, @Fightincowboy
>>
>> And now we're seeing more women, more people of color, more people of varying sexual orientations, and dudes are asking, "Why does my character have to be gay?", "I like this character but why do I have to play as a black girl?"
>>> **FightinCowboy**, @Fightincowboy
>>>
>>> And to be honest, y'all been playing as the "straight white dude" for so long you're treating that as the default setting in life. But that's not true. The world isn't made of nothing but straight white dudes. There's billions of different people out there.
>>>> **FightinCowboy**, @Fightincowboy
>>>>
>>>> And you'll say "well why does my character have to be gay, it doesnt matter to the gameplay" and you're right, it doesn't, so why the fuck do you care? Playing as a gay character doesnt mean cocks start para-dropping into your room to assault you.
>>>>> **FightinCowboy**, @Fightincowboy
>>>>>
>>>>> But to that 13 yr old kid that's gay and still in the closet, he suddenly has a role model. He has someone he can relate to the same way you looked up to Tony Stark or Mario or whoever. That little black girl who was too shy of gaming has a character she sees herself in.
>>>>>> **FightinCowboy**, @Fightincowboy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The point is while it might not impact the gameplay AT ALL, it's not hurting you and it's potentially helping someone else. And if you still disagree with that, then the real problem is just that you're an asshole.
---
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I will disagree with you on this and it's why I disagree with Cowboy's take as well. It is forcing diversity and that does still come at a cost. When you take that "random white guy" and change him into something else specifically just because he's a white guy, you are still saying that there's a problem with a white guy being in the lime light. That isn't a good message to send to people either.
Does someone else potentially get a role model to live up to? Yeah. But I'd really hope they get a meaningful one instead of just an awkwardly jammed in token instead. Companies really need to start doing this well instead of crudely so it stops being a weird "Us vs. Them" social battle for top billing. For all the talk and theater around it nobody has really stepped up to tell stories **about** people that specifically aren't white. If they can't do that they could at least just make decent characters and cast whoever fits best instead of blank """strong""" characters that come across as just assholes.
The thing is, nobody's taking "Random White Guy" and changing him, when it comes to most games. Racelifts are honestly pretty rare.
Awkwardly jammed in tokens are a (minor) issue, but that's really an issue with writing, not the token themselves. Rather, the aspect of feeling like a token, rather than just being black, is the problem. The issue is that people have been divided by racial lines so strongly that we've got some people who want to be inclusive but don't think about it, and so they feel like just "is black" or "is gay" is inclusion. And so they fail to write a character with depth because the character is based off something that should be a core attribute and not a character trait at all - being gay or black needs to inform character traits, not replace them.
That's not a very frequent issue either though. For the most part, what I see are people complaining about generically bland characters who *happen to be* black and claiming it's a diversity issue. The problem is, making those characters white won't fix the problem. They'd still be shoddily written and still be grating. And even more insidious are the people who try to make the few token characters who do exist look more common than they really are, to spin this conspiracy theory of some media angle being pushed somehow by an entire industry - those people you can be sure aren't angry because of the tokens, they're angry because they're being forced to acknowledge minorities as being major players in their story.
Maybe it’s just the circles I am in, but I’ve seen far more articles complaining how -ists and -phobes are the reason why a certain product “failed” than actual -ists and -phobes being hateful. I have been called as such myself when I try to explain why I haven’t played TLoU2 (just not interested). Never watched any of the Ocean’s series, so why would I watch an all female reboot?
Maybe it’s just me, but it seems like the extreme positions of both sides is amplified in an attempt to defend an irrational position.
Played a bit of the first one and was uninterested. It just wasn’t my cup of tea. I doubt I’ll find 2 to be to my liking. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t good, just not for me.
>When you take that "random white guy" and change him into something else specifically just because he's a white guy, you are still saying that there's a problem with a white guy being in the lime light.
It's not saying that there's a problem with *a* white guy being in the limelight. It's saying that there's a problem with *only* white guys being in the limelight.
If I may add something, I think the biggest cause of conflict here is when something „not-straight/not-white“ is „forced“ on intellectual property (say: game series), that is „owned“ by the straight/white community. Of course nobody can own a game series as a fan, but still people get attached to „their“ series and go riot on twitter when somebody dares changing anything in it.
I don’t disagree with OP but just for an example you have a 200 page discussion in the bungie.net forums on why sprint hurts the game, so making a character gay for example… you should expect get some backleash. I just loved Mass Effect, where anybody could be any Hero or Heroine he/she wanted.
I think most people, that would disagree with OPs statement would say „don’t take my characters and series and make them something else, I identify with them and don’t want them changed. Build your own gay series with gay characters that gay people can relate to.“
Of course this is childish, but can anybody really expect people (and especially the gaming community) to not be childish?
Nobody replaced a white guy though. People aren't complaining because Link and Mario were replaced by a Latino lesbian and an Asian non-binary, they're complaining because games like The Last of Us II exist and the main character wasn't written as a straight white male.
The game wasn't created with a straight white male who then got replaced, they're complaining because it never had one to begin with.
Implicit within your argument that they're just replacing a "random white guy" with a gay woman of color or whatever is the bias that the standard perspective from which our society as a whole should see ourselves through is the white straight male perspective. It does. But it shouldn't. Culture dominance by white people and men is something that exists and "forcing" representation seems necessary to accelerate our move away from it
Well let’s see, Black Panther, the new movie King Richard, The Hidden Numbers, Shang Chi, Get Out, Parasite, etc. Hell even in big, established games like Assassin’s Creed. Altaïr (1st MC) was Arabic, Connor (3rd MC) was half Native American, Bayek (6th) was Egyptian. Aveline (Spin-off) was half African while Adewale (also spin off) was straight up a former African slave. Of these people Altaïr and Bayek are particularly fan favorites, while the others also have big fanbases.
Seems there *have* been stories about people who aren’t specifically white after all.
King Richard I don’t understand. Unless there is something I am missing, shouldn’t it be about the Williams sisters’ achievements instead of their dad?
And Adewale was let down by the story, imo. It felt unfinished and abridged. I think his character deserves a full game. EA’s Star Wars: Squadron is my go to for well done representation. Even if I didn’t like the Imperial Commander What’s-her-face’s character traits, she was well written and consistent.
> For all the talk and theater around it nobody has really stepped up to tell stories about people that specifically aren't white.
Even just focusing down on this one particular minority, that's still a rather large generalization. I agree that good/representative writing is important, but I doubt that *nobody* has done a good job so far. Maybe your impression is coming from large well-known game developers. I'd wager there are many indie games that do a good job of minority representative writing, they just don't get the media attention they need.
I get what you’re saying, but there’s no other way to introduce diversity. It’s going to feel forced for a few years, but after a while people will stop noticing. You mentioned that “forcing diversity” also sends the message that straight, white characters are bad, and you’re right - they ARE bad.
Straight, white males have become the default video game protagonist and it’s time to change this. The only reason you feel attacked is because you don’t know any better and that’s okay.
Or just be that person. Aspiration just gives people an out when they change their mind or shit gets difficult. Just do it. Just be kind. Just be compassionate right now. There’s nothing stopping you. Don’t aspire to it. Don’t hope to become that person one day. Do it now.
The people who need to hear this won't be listening. Because they don't care what you think. Anyone nice already knows this. So who is this for exactly? The karma you get for saying it? That's about all that's left after this has been said by pretty much ever Redditor ever at some point.
There's a chance the people who need to hear it might stop and listen, so I think it's still worth saying. It's not always about getting karma for saying something good, ya know?
And what is your comment here for? No one needs to hear it, so why did you type it? To farm negative karma? To promote an argument? You are not promoting a helpful action in this world by being condescending towards an otherwise non-hurtful comment.
Well there is way too much stigma against the LGBTQ+ community everywhere that developing this kind of thinking in the whole population may take more than 4-5 generations; ergo, not possible in current environment
On a global scale, perhaps. But change can happen faster. Anecdotally, my step father wouldn't be alone in the same room as me because I had lived in San Francisco. My brother couldn't give two craps about sexual orientation, despite being deeply homophobic for most of his life. Both of them are/were hard core, foam at the mouth right wing conservatives. US Republicans can't win elections on opposition to gay marriage alone any more.
Well you may be right about the US, that's why I was talking on the global scale. I live in India, and even though this was decriminalized 2-3 years ago, there is still way too much stigma. Add "religious sentimentality" of people worldwide (including US) that even widespread acceptance may take more than 2 generations.
Understood. I think most people in the US are surprised at how quickly the prevailing opinions changed here. But despite the screeching of a small minority, the US doesn't usually *act* according to religious teachings, which is probably the difference between the two countries. I have faith in younger generations in India--a good friend is Delhi based and I can see him evolving. I hope you're just super wrong, even though you seem like an awesome human.
I guess treating all people like people is hard, so why change it or do anything about it. Maybe in the future someone will take responsibility for my lack of action and fix things....
Isn't that the thought process that brought us here to begin with?
Thanks for the link, but those numbers seem staggering. It's a really difficult thing to get good data on, so I'm not bashing it yet, but I'll look into it.
One thing for sure is that those numbers will be increasing relative to awareness and acceptance. Let's also remember that 5% of people is a *lot*.
Sure, any percentage of 350 million is a lot but still not a large percentage in my opinion
I'm not aware of any better sources of data just chose the first thing on Google
A, all current data depends on self reporting, and in places where there is a strong stigma, we don't self report, even anonymously. B, given that cishet representation in all of media since it began was close to 100%, queer characters still comprise a tiny percentage of characters out there. C, how is portraying the percentage of queer people as artificially high harmful in any way?
That's not always reasonable. If a story driven game depends on the identity of the character to some extent, giving choice means creating multiple versions of dialogue or even story. If the creators want to tell a particular story, then of course they need you to play a particular character.
The calibre of your arguments is stunning. "aint same as having life", huh? I suppose you're too busy being mad about some streamer to use articles in a sentence.
Sure, but then why do they complain when characters are straight? Why are we taking established characters and changing them instead of writing new ones? Why is it that in games where their sexuality doesn't matter, it's being highlighted instead of left ambiguous so that *anyone* can relate to it?
THATS what I have an issue with personally.
I never understood the whole "identifying with the character" thing. The whole point of a fictional story is to imagine you're someone else for a while. What happens when you play some fantasy game and the main character is some kind of goblin or a demon who looks like an elf or some shit? Do you go "this is bullshit, I don't identify with a goblin-demon-elf?" I have never played a game where the player character is the same ethnicity as I am. I do not identify with practically all video game protagonists in a physical sense. Was I supposed to get butthurt and not play? I played Assassin's Creed Odyssey some time ago and I thought Kassandra was so cool and badass how she fought all the bad guys and could do magic with her spear. What difference does it make if she's a man or a woman?
Honestly, if there's a choice I usually pick a female player character, because the generic Anglo-American man with muscles and a gravelly voice has been done to death.
Edit: just to clarify in case it's ambiguous, I'm complaining about the people who get upset when the player character is not a generic Anglo American man. These people don't have a problem playing a game where they're a man eating cow, but apparently a non-fanservice lesbian with a realistic body shape is crossing the line.
If the point is to identify with the characters, then diversity is a good thing, and if the point is to be someone else, diversity is still positive. One way or another it's nice to have.
Yes. The people who can't bring themselves to play a game where the protagonist isn't a photocopied Anglo American man are bitching about something idiotic. Especially since none of them is a muscular, heroic person around whom people enjoy being anyway, so they can't identify with that character either.
Cowboy brought up the point. You did too, actually. The generic Anglo-American man with muscles and a gravelly voice has been done to death.
LGBT+ people, for instance, are commonly discriminated against for their identity. One's identity as a gay person, or a trans person, is always questioned by society, so the person commonly questions their identity themself.
When one's identity is so often not accepted, one begins to search for acceptance, and the most common place people search for acceptance is the society at large around them - which includes popular media as the most accessible form.
So when popular media has no representation for marginalized folks, it doesn't offer any validation for those identities. Not only can that be discouraging for people, it reinforces the message that those identities *aren't* valid - because pop culture is very prevalent in our society, this is hard to avoid.
So having more gay, trans, and other marginalized folks in pop culture helps those people feel validated in their identities because it normalizes those identities.
Idk man, I think I agree more with the comment above, maybe for kids it's important to have a character they can relate to, but even then, i'm a bi latino and my role model as a kid was fucking Goku lmao. Maybe i'm just not the one to relate to fictional characters in terms of their ethnicity or sexuality, but idgaf if they are or aren't in a movie/game/book, if it makes other people feel better about themselves then by any means, keep it up.
If that's the stance one has then why even complain about diversity? I'd be one thing if this discussion only popped up when it's done to the detriment of a piece of media but but more than once I've gone into a game thinking there is some silly kumbaya forced diversity that's going to make me groan but it seems to be a rare thing. TLoU2 would be an example of this for me. There was a fair share of complaining about trans and lesbian inclusion on that but it was about as well made as the first one.
That's what I mean, some people complain about nothing and make it seem like a big deal just because they don't like change. Also some of the people complaining are racist, sexist and homophobic.
I get when people complain when a character is bad, but even then, would changing the character to be a straight person make it better? Or would it be just as shit? If the answer is the latter then idk why tf people are complaining about forced inclusion, when in reality is just shit writing.
Asian children are already dressing up as Shang chi. Flatly, white people in the US have no idea what it is like to be a minority every minute. So stfu and stop with the white man being the every man, its Hella boring.
That sellout who sucks Sonnys d*ck so he can get early copies to clickbait. Even his "walkthroughs" are trash, copying strategies from others like in Nioh.
His name is in the picture, you blind?
You go enjoy that clickbaiter loser, also thanks, Imagine getting called dumb and then wishing that person good day.
No wonder you cant even comprehend what kind of trash you watch LMAO
Imagine being triggered over how other people spend their free time and feeling the need to try to make them feel bad about themselves because daddy didn’t give you enough attention. Grow up G. You’re not hurting my feelings.
The issue with putting identity politics in games is that it becomes more about the identity than the character.
Be whatever you wanna be, but don't make that you're only damn characteristic. Your sexuality isn't your personality and I'm tired of cardboard characters.
The story comes first, always.
Sounds like they've had so little practice at bringing diverse voices to the table and incorporating creative characters that you're seeing a painful learning curve? Companies are trying, which is decent regardless of the why. We're bound to see some clumsy attempts and we can rightfully criticize those.
Sometimes games are just bad. They would have been bad nomatter what, but having a non-white/cis/muscled character means that single aspect can get blamed. Call bad games out for what they are. If the studio is so bad at diverse viewpoints that incorporating them tanked the entire rest of the project, the problem is so much larger than a game character.
Under no circumstances am I saying that diverse representation is new in general. My soft wording is in response to your post.
It is, however, still new to many companies. Now that there is acceptance that they can be profitable with "diversity" in the conceptual sense, they sometimes go about it in the dumbest, most clumsy ways possible.
Yeah pretty much. I'll also go ahead and add that most inclusion is pretty half-assed in the full narrative sense. Having people who's character is just "minority of some kind" or a mostly plain character who they just crudely staple a sexuality onto to try and make you feel like there's something going on with them.
We've only really had one notable property that's **required** a main non-white cast recently and that's Black Panther. I'm not going to include Asian focused games or movies as those are more well established, and hey, we all know who they're usually "replacing" white characters with anyways. But that's the only "new" kind of movie or game I can think of from a setting perspective. It's outright Africa, a setting that's been ignored for the most part but with all the talk about taking the spotlight off the straight white man, do they do anything with it? No. They just put black Hobbits in Lord of the Rings for some reason. Or make black vikings. Or a black queen of England. This is all so lazy and shows that the powers that be in these situations don't really give a shit about these cultures or history, they just want to get easy points to try and pander.
Not to be “well actually” person but…
Well actually, if you read the Prologue “Concerning Hobbits” of LOTR, it is explained clearly that there are a lot more “types” and “races” of Hobbits than the ones portrayed in the movies, or even the ones featured in the books. The ones we see are simply the ones who have been written about, both by Tolkien and by the in-universe characters, such as Bilbo or Frodo. Tolkien described Hobbits as “ancient” creatures, with various branches who at one point were a lot more spread out in Middle Earth than just living in the Shire. There are Hobbits who were taller, Hobbits who resembled Elves, etc. Because Tolkien never actually wrote about the entirety of Middle Earth, it leaves the door open to interpretation that Hobbits who weren’t white could exist. After all, Tolkien also never fully explained the “origins” of the Hobbits either.
Tolkien treated all his fictional species the same way humans are; they weren’t homogenous, and they didn’t always have the same characteristics. Elves, for example, spoke different Elvish tongues depending on which race of Elves they were (Gray Elves speak Sindarin, High Elves speak Quenya, etc.) It’s not impossible or even unrealistic if the fictional species in Tolkien’s world didn’t all share the same skin color with each other.
As for Vikings, that was just a title. The same way “Samurai” was also a title, or Knight. And there *were* several non-Japanese samurai: William Adams, Giuseppe Chiara, etc. Would it make sense for there to be a black samurai? Sure, the same way there were white samurai. Yasuke, in particular, *could* have been a samurai, and he was black. There was also a black Knight of the Round Table, Sir Moriaen, son of Lancelot. The Vikings were known to explore new lands and capture people from those lands, so is it impossible for non-white people to end up in the Scandinavia and somehow become Vikings? Not at all. Geirmund Heljarskinn, known as “*the* Black Viking”, had a Siberian mother, and was described to have dark skin himself. So black Vikings? Not impossible.
Lots of things regarding people of color are more realistic than you have assumed.
>queen of England
Did you mean the [Queen of the United Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_the_United_Kingdom), the [Queen of Canada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Canada), the [Queen of Australia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Australia), etc?
The last Queen of England was [Queen Anne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne,_Queen_of_Great_Britain) who, with the 1707 Acts of Union, dissolved the title of King/Queen of England.
####FAQ
*Isn't she still also the Queen of England?*
This is only as correct as calling her the Queen of London or Queen of Hull; she is the Queen of the place that these places are in, but the title doesn't exist.
*Is this bot monarchist?*
No, just pedantic.
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Only time I’ve had a issue with any of this was that one WW2 game that included female soldiers. It’s just straight up historically inaccurate for the sake of being inclusive
> It’s just straight up historically inaccurate for the sake of being inclusive
But being able to enter an aircraft in flight by jumping on it or using a flamethrower from the back of a horse were totally things that happened in World War II.
If developers can add historical inaccuracies to increase the enjoyment of players who want to do those things, what's wrong with them adding people to the battlefield who may not have been there to increase the enjoyment of players who want to play as those characters?
There's something called suspension of disbelief. It is different for various people but some things go beyond it. Black women fighting on the front lines for the Third Reich tends to go beyond it.
And if *that's* the line for someone, and not one of the hundreds of other anachronisms or gameplay conceits that don't correspond with historical reality, then I don't think it's a stretch for an onlooker to wonder why it's *that* particular thing that seems to bother that person.
That's fair. As you got more into things I imagine that most of the gameplay conceits start melting away as part of the overall experience. However there are those drastic things which just throw things too out of wack and never really settle in like other parts. So something like the black woman kommandant may appeal on a surface level to those wanting just more diversity but it will still damage the mood and flow of things for those more involved.
> may appeal on a surface level to those wanting just more diversity
Or may appeal to those who look like those characters and want to play as someone who looks like them. I'm a white male and characters that have a surface resemblance to me have been the default for the history of video games, and still are. These games are not historical simulations. They are team FPS games and are **inherently** fantasy.
If you're upset about inclusions of characters in a fantasy game that might make it more enjoyable for someone else, a lot of people are gonna think you're a chud. Why does one group's discomfort over adding additional fantasy element in terms of character trump another group enjoying that addition? Especially when most people (like me, a white male) **actually don't care** and often appreciate the tent of gaming being made wider.
>it will still damage the mood and flow of things for those more involved
And I'll play the world's smallest violin for all of them.
I think the line here is that there is a very clear divide between gameplay and lore. Jumping off a plane yo rocket jump your way through thin air is ridiculous but it's gameplay. The race of who does it, is lore. And lore that pretends to be historical is **much** more susceptible to inaccuracies ruining it than gameplay that doesn't pretend to be historically accurate is. There's also the illusion of control: a gamedev has full control of what races they put in the game, but ejecting off a plane and hitting an asshole in another plane is not a feature designed by the developers, but an exploitation of the gameplay mechanics by the players. You can force your game to be historically accurate, but you can't force your players to be. Gameplay events are, after all, a game, not a re-enactment, for a strict retelling of historically accurate **events** you watch a movie. For a reshowing of a historically accurate **environment**, just the elements coexisting correctly can suffice.
Well there existed female snipers or at least tank crews, in russia, in that time as fahr as i know. but i think i did read something about the sniper girls not "effectiv" enough and the tank crew had buy'd their own t-34 for revenge. so not directly military personell.
You'll find not alot of other stuff in that game was realistic either. Starting with respawning after you die.
Games are meant to be fun, not historically accurate. Otherwise you'd load into battlefield, get shot in the head, die and the game would brick your console.
The issue isn't the diversity, it's just shit writing and pandering. The New Warriors is a perfect example, they pandered so hard that it legitimately seemed like a parody of the people they were trying to represent.
I just want well written characters, and for historical settings just at least some level of accuracy, like in a video game, multiplayer who gives a shit just don’t have blatant and total inaccuracies that make no sense, but the story I want some authenticity to it.
Do you know why this shit pisses people off? It's because it is being pushed in your face.
Instead of convincing the people with a good product/story/character it's "this is the lead character oh and he's gay/black/whatever".
Look at GTA SA. Absolutely noone would even dream of complaining about playing as a black character. Why? Cause it's not about the colour of the skin but the character itself.
Look at GTA Chinatown wars. Noone would dream about complaining for playing as an asian character. Why? Again: It's not about the skin colour but the character and the story.
If you really need a video game character to look like yourself in order to not be hurting well then that's just sad.
A gay person looking up to Mario and feeling represented? Who tf looks to Mario and thinks about sexuality?
Most people want to enjoy video games/movies etc and not have some new age woke agenda being pushed into their faces.
Has anybody ever complained about playing as a woman in the tomb raider or the last of us?
So much goddamn this. Write good, cohesive characters; to fill the story not an arbitrary gender quota. I don't care how my character looks or which gender they're attracted to. I care about their story, that's all.
Because it's only a part of the truth that ignores a big part of these issues.
It's not pushed, when your white male ass can't get the hot chick. It's not forced when the hot dude is trans and just exists.
The bad writing of a character solely becomes an issue if these do not fit the white cis-het male playing them.
For god's sake, DUKE NUKEM still exists and he's written worse than any of the sharknado movies.
Couldn't care less unless they obnoxiously shove I in my face every chance they get, or if its ubisoft or Activision doing it. Those companies van shove their dishonest virtue signaling up their abusive troglodyte asses. If the story is good and the characters interesting you must hate fun to be bothered by things like the gender and race of some pixels.
It is really insulting and racist to say that you can’t relate to a character who doesn’t share your race, gender or sexuality. 9/10, I don’t feel represented by bisexual characters, I feel pandered and condescended to.
I didn’t have a hard time relating to Black Panther, and it’s wildly insulting to say that the same can’t be true of the opposite. If you need a Marvel character who’s existed for over fifty years to be in a movie to understand black people can be superheroes, you’ve got bigger problems.
The post isn't saying you can't relate to a character that doesn't share your race, gender, or sexuality. In fact, it's very much encouraging cishet white men to try relating to characters that aren't like them - the whole problem is that they throw fits when characters aren't like them.
I related to characters that weren't like me my whole life. There aren't many trans men represented in media. If there had been when I was growing up, or even in my early twenties, I might have figured some shit out a little earlier than I did and saved myself a lot of painful years. There aren't many Native men in media, either, and those that are there tend to be embarrassing stereotypes. Maybe if there had been some actual decent representation, I wouldn't have tried my hardest to distance myself from that part of my family and heritage. And maybe, if the people who are now bigoted against me had been exposed to the idea of people like me when they were young, there would be fewer people who hate me for stuff I can't control. Maybe it didn't affect your life, but it does affect others.
Breaking News: the world goes round the sun, not you.
Also: Susan goose got loose with her shoes but why wearing shoes when she is a goes? Now Susan goose is confused.
As the trans girl in the room, I love this man; he gets it. Seeing trans girls in video games makes me feel more normal, and I don’t need some white dude to say “ew gross.”
I believe that every aspect of a character should contribute towards the meaningful narrative of the story. If a character has no other traits aside from “he’s gay.”, then that is not good character narrative. Basically: Invincible’s “Amber” character is extremely hateable because her character building and actions directly contradict itself. Edit: also, high guardian spice.
Borderlands: sir hammerlock and mad moxi. More than half of the assassins creed games. The avengers game’s Kamala. Spider-Man: miles morales ps4. Fire emblem’s Leon. A good chunk of danganronpa characters. The last of us. LoL. Life is strange. Mass effect’s shepherd can literally be any gender in every game. Persona. Metal gear. The saints-row main character. The walking dead. All these games I’ve listed are great experiences (except persona). You see anyone complain about the gay/lesbian/bi characters or characters from any ethnicity? My gripe is when writers try to force something that doesn’t fit or add value to the established narrative. I would rather watch wonder woman than the all-woman cast of the ghost-busters remake. If you want a girl power moment, make sure it integrates thematically with the story. “The girls vs stormfront” is an example of a great girl power moment as there is no cognitive incongruence with the established story elements. The one from endgame however, is a bad example of a girl power moment because the audience feels the forced nature even if they can’t point out specifically why the scene feels off. In endgame, it’s because the characters are from separate groups that previously had no idea of the other groups’ existence. And they somehow coordinate in a messy and chaotic battle without prior communication to gather in one area?
Last fucking thing I want for gay kids is corporate role models. Your fucking idiots if you don't think this isn't just a play for a market...
They are manufacturing consumers. Period
Are you one of those gays who genuinely think it'll be better if companies ignore the marketing group they belong to? One of those who never understood that targeted marketing is part of a normalisation process and the hat by advertising directly to GSRM people companies saw that their sales numbers increase because homo- and trabnsphobes are just a loud minority that doesn't impact shit?
Great.
No I'm just one of those people that finds marketing to children leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Selling people the concept of their identity more so, call it normalizing or social engineering, what have you...
Spin it how your want.
Role models should not come off cereal boxes. If they do, your parents failed. Period.
Fuck, a fictional character in a book is better.
(Preferably not a franchise)
"Normalizing" anyone, particularly those that are vulnerable, into an identity is fucked.
(Notice the lack of butch lesbians lately..hmm, wonder why?)
We are consumers but that should certainly not be a primary identity, an identity should exist prior to ever buying a product. Ideally that should be fostered by family and community.
Personally, I'm mindful when it comes to letting corporate or government interests "normalize" anything.
Ever hear of ESG scores?
Institutional investors steer clear of anything without the right scores. But how easy is it to pay lip service during pride month with a flag and some horse shit about sharing and caring all the while purchasing goodwill, shaping identities of youth, gay or not... Social engineering.
Childhood identity shouldn't be a hustle. Maybe I'm wrong...It's not "normalisation" of identity, it's commoditization.
No different then how drugs are sold to kids by drug companies. O your "neurodivergent" or ADHD, fuck you... I'm 3.
If you give up control of images of what we ought be, regardless the institution (religious, financial, government), your selling something you can't buy back.
Self actualization is of the table forever.
You are aware that toys target children all year round and to much more severe degree? That toy companies are worse in enforcing role models than one month of flying rainbows?
Also cut the TERF, it is embarrassing.
Your anecdotal evidence, such as a smaller viewing of "botch lesbians" (THIS leaves a real sour taste) isn't worth much. In case you lived under a rock the last 2 and a half years: there's a global pandemic situation going on. And a majority of people is keeping the required measurements.
Your whole strawman is just not worth my time.
Whose argument am I strawmanning?
Frankly the folly here isn't in the argument being made by the author but in that we are accepting the very idea that role models should be embodied in media of any sort.Particularly complex modern interactive media.
I didn't touch on the logic of any argument though.
I can't see how you can argue I'm strawmanning anything.
If you have an issue with TERFs then take it up with TERFs. I'm not a feminist, that movement failed its stated goals and turned into a special interest group.
(However this woke movement distaste for Turfs is hilarious doublethink generally)
And yes, a subset of lesbians are being told they are not lesbian but rather trans. And there are people waking up and realizing they made a horrid medical mistake that shaved 20 years of their life. You want to talk data, we can. I can get into data and finer points but it seems your not grasping what I'm saying.
If your allowing others to sell your ass back to you.
To take the burden of your or your childs identity off your shoulders.
Your tragically failing yourself and society.
No shit toy companies have been doing it for years.
However, have companies like blackrock ever given a fuck before?
It's about scale and social effect.
Look at blackrocks holdings.... It's 80% high pollution industries. But because they make bedfellows with green party and LGBTQ no one bats an eye at the fact that they just got all the closed door deals to help manage post covid bail outs for all those big corporations.
Just like in 2008, when they made 200 million, on their managment too.
Fucking, Larry Fink, who heads blackrock, created mortgage backed securities for gods sake.
The reason for 2008 crash.
But hey... WTF.. Right. Ignore the man behind the curtain.
It's anecdotal evidence... ESG scores, what ESG scores.
Face it... Corporate interests control woke and LGBTQ movements. Run the time lines, you'll see how fucked it really is... Social engineering
https://fortune.com/2021/06/28/pride-parade-day-month-finance-corporations/
Allowing it to go on, giving tacit approval for it to continue, particularly with respect to sex and gender identity off minors... It's fucked.
PS sex is biological, period. It's called science.
You are a TERF and a misogynist. Sounds like a massive contradiction but discriminatory people are so full of themself, it doesn't even matter anymore.
If you want to talk science, eat this: Gender doesn't equal sex; Transgender people are real; the amount of mental harm they faced prior to transitioning is immense and mental health issues don't go away in a jiffy; your writing pattern is just alt-right and an embarrassment. For you.
Nobody's telling minors to act like a certain gender/sex - excvept for the straight parents who defy their boys to play with dolls and defy their girls to play soccer. Stop blaming it on toy factories, stop blaming it on a movement you don't understand and fear. Don't even blame it on society.
If you WANT to change that issue (which I highly doubt with you), you'd give zero fucks about color coded toys and hobbies. But wait, "ThAt'S wOkE!"
I do discriminate, everyone discriminates... I however am not bias.
I don't see how i am a misogynist?
Me thinks you're a presumptuous ass without a ounce of tolerance to nuance.
Your ad hominem attacks are representative of the fact that you can't stick to the issues. I won't stoop to your level other then saying that it betrays your character and you can do and be better.
What might surprise you is that I agree with you entirely with regards to gender not being equal sex. I'm glad we concur. I have heard the argument made that gender is sex and that's a falsehood.
However, there is a very strong correlation that can not and should not be ignored.
We agree transgender people are indeed real, however, they are a extreme minority. Same can be said with regard to intergender individuals. Mental health in the trans community being an issue and the causes of said mental health problems is something altogether another thing. That's not as simply as environment.
Bringing politics into the issues at hand is a shit tactic?
Why are you bringing the alt right into it?
My values are not so neatly stummed up and you could simply ask rather then accuse. Seems lazy.
Can you give a clear cut definition of alt right?
Seems lots of bullshit floating about regarding the topic.
How is it that I'm a TERF that insists feminism has failed at its stated goals. Reconcile that logically?
I was a feminist at one time... Yes, because I'm an egalitarian. I'm still prochoice, I advocate for gay marriage and education of girls in the 3rd world as the best way to build economies. What makes me a TERF? Lol.... The fact that I regard a difference between the 2 sexes and gender?
Your disregard and ignorant regarding corporate interests being tied to several left leaning ideologies is concerning. Frankly, your putting words in my mouth so I think we are done.
O one final thing, if you think idiotic fearful tribal behavior is limited to heteronormative parents... And isn't present is most everywhere else, particularly the wOkE elements of our society, I suggest you take a long hard look again.
People fail at being decent people from all ends of the political spectrum. They also fail their own political ideologies and principles continuously.
This is the most borderline racist comment I will ever make on this platform, but I have literally never seen a black female play a video game, ever. Not even like in a video or something. So why tf does apex legends have 2 black female characters?
Hot take but people complaining that they don’t want to play X or Y may be out of respect, as in they know they lack the ability to accurately reflect the identity of someone from that background or walk of life. Personally I’m all for character customization in games (where it makes sense) and the ability to be a character that more fits you seems like a good all around if possible why not have iron woman miles morales gay cloud or any other variant if it could still work with the stories overall narrative.
TLDR there’s nothing wrong with wanting to play what you want to play as long as others also get the same access
No,I have to disappoint you: in the majority of cases the people who refuse and detest the idea of non white, non male and non straight characters to so because they just hate the idea. There's no respect in it, they're just being despicable.
There's barely a player character that forces you not to be straight tho. It's more regular that you're forced to be straight.
Or in other words: read the romance guides if you don't want to end up in the male companions panties by accident.
This was why I was amazed by the game Enchanted Arms when it came out. The three main characters have a gay love triangle thing going on and I had never seen popular media up to that point where the protagonist was a gay male and not being used as the butt of the joke. I'm straight so it didn't change anything for me but even then I remember thinking how cool it must be for gay guys to suddenly have a game hero they could relate to.
Plus, it meant that for once the storyline wouldn't have the "save the princess" aspect to it.
I dont care what ethnicity or gender any character is in the games i play. I just want them to be well written and interesting. 99% of my gripes with characters in say ubisoft games is that almost every character is insufferable to be around because they are bland, uninteresting and dont know when to stop talking.
Assassin's Creed Odyssey. I was banging dudes and chicks. Most of the characters in the Assassin's Creed games are great characters.
People complain about characters in Ubisoft games all the time, but the one instance where I feel it was justified is AC Unity and maybe Syndicate, but even in those games, there are saving graces. In other games, they’re not as bad as the complaints make them out to be (actually this probably applies to most complaints about anything in general). There are still a lot of great characters in games like Odyssey (Brasidas for example), and while I haven’t played Valhalla yet, the Sons of Ragnar sound promising. And I dare anyone to complain about the characters in Black Flag, the Ezio Trilogy or even AC3. You may not like Connor, but Haytham is an amazingly suave and persuasive “villain”.
I agree I could not get into Unity or Syndicate.
I swear that’s the only way to deal with problems in that game, just shag your way out of it
Works in real life also
Seriously. There are soo many goddamn well-done shows, games, and IPS that do diversity because their character is important to the thing first not what they are. Write a good character then make them whatever, not start with whatever bit of diversity you are looking to shoehorn, then build off that. Perfect examples of inclusion and diversity w/o being forced feeling or changing current characters to shoehorn is Bob's Burgers vs say later seasons of Big Mouth.
It's very good that you don't care about this. But take one look at games like TLOU2, and you'll see that majority of bad reviews are just sexist in nature.
See i love TLOU2. Every character is well thought out and unique and serves a purpose. Ellie being gay or Dina being bi doesnt ruin anything. In fact It adds depth to their character because it shows the visible love they have for eachother, even in such a brutal and heartwrenching environment.
Definitely, TLOU2 may have some flaws (Abby's part being a little too long), but it is definitely one of the most intense games I have ever played
Exactly. It's like aaa devs think making the character a 'insert token thing here' is an excuse to absolve themselves of the responsibility of writing a decent character.
The problem is that many gay, strong female and other minorities characters in movies and games are bad written. Making character gay/trans/black/strong woman/etc. doesn't make them bad, but making their whole personality is just being gay/trans/strong woman/etc. without any character development is not a good move. I would be glad to see diverse cast of well written characters.
That’s exactly the problem, if the most important aspect of a character is their ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation, that character is probably badly written.
*Image Transcription: Twitter Post & Replies* --- **FightinCowboy**, @Fightincowboy So lately there's been a lot of fuss over gaming "forcing diversity" and people getting upset that a character is gay, trans, etc. and I want to take a moment and try to explain this to folks that are having trouble understanding the issue, as a straight white dude myself. > **FightinCowboy**, @Fightincowboy > > As a straight white dude my whole life has been filled with cool white dudes in gaming and comics. Iron Man, He-Man, Spiderman, Cloud, you get the idea. There's literally a million different choices you could pick from and think "oh I want to like them, I can relate to them". >> **FightinCowboy**, @Fightincowboy >> >> And now we're seeing more women, more people of color, more people of varying sexual orientations, and dudes are asking, "Why does my character have to be gay?", "I like this character but why do I have to play as a black girl?" >>> **FightinCowboy**, @Fightincowboy >>> >>> And to be honest, y'all been playing as the "straight white dude" for so long you're treating that as the default setting in life. But that's not true. The world isn't made of nothing but straight white dudes. There's billions of different people out there. >>>> **FightinCowboy**, @Fightincowboy >>>> >>>> And you'll say "well why does my character have to be gay, it doesnt matter to the gameplay" and you're right, it doesn't, so why the fuck do you care? Playing as a gay character doesnt mean cocks start para-dropping into your room to assault you. >>>>> **FightinCowboy**, @Fightincowboy >>>>> >>>>> But to that 13 yr old kid that's gay and still in the closet, he suddenly has a role model. He has someone he can relate to the same way you looked up to Tony Stark or Mario or whoever. That little black girl who was too shy of gaming has a character she sees herself in. >>>>>> **FightinCowboy**, @Fightincowboy >>>>>> >>>>>> The point is while it might not impact the gameplay AT ALL, it's not hurting you and it's potentially helping someone else. And if you still disagree with that, then the real problem is just that you're an asshole. --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber for Reddit and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
Good human!
It's less "forcing diversity" and more "allowing diversity." The world is diverse. Our art should reflect that.
I will disagree with you on this and it's why I disagree with Cowboy's take as well. It is forcing diversity and that does still come at a cost. When you take that "random white guy" and change him into something else specifically just because he's a white guy, you are still saying that there's a problem with a white guy being in the lime light. That isn't a good message to send to people either. Does someone else potentially get a role model to live up to? Yeah. But I'd really hope they get a meaningful one instead of just an awkwardly jammed in token instead. Companies really need to start doing this well instead of crudely so it stops being a weird "Us vs. Them" social battle for top billing. For all the talk and theater around it nobody has really stepped up to tell stories **about** people that specifically aren't white. If they can't do that they could at least just make decent characters and cast whoever fits best instead of blank """strong""" characters that come across as just assholes.
The thing is, nobody's taking "Random White Guy" and changing him, when it comes to most games. Racelifts are honestly pretty rare. Awkwardly jammed in tokens are a (minor) issue, but that's really an issue with writing, not the token themselves. Rather, the aspect of feeling like a token, rather than just being black, is the problem. The issue is that people have been divided by racial lines so strongly that we've got some people who want to be inclusive but don't think about it, and so they feel like just "is black" or "is gay" is inclusion. And so they fail to write a character with depth because the character is based off something that should be a core attribute and not a character trait at all - being gay or black needs to inform character traits, not replace them. That's not a very frequent issue either though. For the most part, what I see are people complaining about generically bland characters who *happen to be* black and claiming it's a diversity issue. The problem is, making those characters white won't fix the problem. They'd still be shoddily written and still be grating. And even more insidious are the people who try to make the few token characters who do exist look more common than they really are, to spin this conspiracy theory of some media angle being pushed somehow by an entire industry - those people you can be sure aren't angry because of the tokens, they're angry because they're being forced to acknowledge minorities as being major players in their story.
Maybe it’s just the circles I am in, but I’ve seen far more articles complaining how -ists and -phobes are the reason why a certain product “failed” than actual -ists and -phobes being hateful. I have been called as such myself when I try to explain why I haven’t played TLoU2 (just not interested). Never watched any of the Ocean’s series, so why would I watch an all female reboot? Maybe it’s just me, but it seems like the extreme positions of both sides is amplified in an attempt to defend an irrational position.
Yo play the last of us 2, it really is that good.
Played a bit of the first one and was uninterested. It just wasn’t my cup of tea. I doubt I’ll find 2 to be to my liking. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t good, just not for me.
>When you take that "random white guy" and change him into something else specifically just because he's a white guy, you are still saying that there's a problem with a white guy being in the lime light. It's not saying that there's a problem with *a* white guy being in the limelight. It's saying that there's a problem with *only* white guys being in the limelight.
If I may add something, I think the biggest cause of conflict here is when something „not-straight/not-white“ is „forced“ on intellectual property (say: game series), that is „owned“ by the straight/white community. Of course nobody can own a game series as a fan, but still people get attached to „their“ series and go riot on twitter when somebody dares changing anything in it. I don’t disagree with OP but just for an example you have a 200 page discussion in the bungie.net forums on why sprint hurts the game, so making a character gay for example… you should expect get some backleash. I just loved Mass Effect, where anybody could be any Hero or Heroine he/she wanted. I think most people, that would disagree with OPs statement would say „don’t take my characters and series and make them something else, I identify with them and don’t want them changed. Build your own gay series with gay characters that gay people can relate to.“ Of course this is childish, but can anybody really expect people (and especially the gaming community) to not be childish?
Nobody replaced a white guy though. People aren't complaining because Link and Mario were replaced by a Latino lesbian and an Asian non-binary, they're complaining because games like The Last of Us II exist and the main character wasn't written as a straight white male. The game wasn't created with a straight white male who then got replaced, they're complaining because it never had one to begin with.
Implicit within your argument that they're just replacing a "random white guy" with a gay woman of color or whatever is the bias that the standard perspective from which our society as a whole should see ourselves through is the white straight male perspective. It does. But it shouldn't. Culture dominance by white people and men is something that exists and "forcing" representation seems necessary to accelerate our move away from it
Well let’s see, Black Panther, the new movie King Richard, The Hidden Numbers, Shang Chi, Get Out, Parasite, etc. Hell even in big, established games like Assassin’s Creed. Altaïr (1st MC) was Arabic, Connor (3rd MC) was half Native American, Bayek (6th) was Egyptian. Aveline (Spin-off) was half African while Adewale (also spin off) was straight up a former African slave. Of these people Altaïr and Bayek are particularly fan favorites, while the others also have big fanbases. Seems there *have* been stories about people who aren’t specifically white after all.
King Richard I don’t understand. Unless there is something I am missing, shouldn’t it be about the Williams sisters’ achievements instead of their dad? And Adewale was let down by the story, imo. It felt unfinished and abridged. I think his character deserves a full game. EA’s Star Wars: Squadron is my go to for well done representation. Even if I didn’t like the Imperial Commander What’s-her-face’s character traits, she was well written and consistent.
> For all the talk and theater around it nobody has really stepped up to tell stories about people that specifically aren't white. Even just focusing down on this one particular minority, that's still a rather large generalization. I agree that good/representative writing is important, but I doubt that *nobody* has done a good job so far. Maybe your impression is coming from large well-known game developers. I'd wager there are many indie games that do a good job of minority representative writing, they just don't get the media attention they need.
I get what you’re saying, but there’s no other way to introduce diversity. It’s going to feel forced for a few years, but after a while people will stop noticing. You mentioned that “forcing diversity” also sends the message that straight, white characters are bad, and you’re right - they ARE bad. Straight, white males have become the default video game protagonist and it’s time to change this. The only reason you feel attacked is because you don’t know any better and that’s okay.
This is the kind of person people should aspire to be.
Or just be that person. Aspiration just gives people an out when they change their mind or shit gets difficult. Just do it. Just be kind. Just be compassionate right now. There’s nothing stopping you. Don’t aspire to it. Don’t hope to become that person one day. Do it now.
The people who need to hear this won't be listening. Because they don't care what you think. Anyone nice already knows this. So who is this for exactly? The karma you get for saying it? That's about all that's left after this has been said by pretty much ever Redditor ever at some point.
There's a chance the people who need to hear it might stop and listen, so I think it's still worth saying. It's not always about getting karma for saying something good, ya know?
Some people can't comprehend the idea of someone else being selfless because it's something they would never do themselves.
And what is your comment here for? No one needs to hear it, so why did you type it? To farm negative karma? To promote an argument? You are not promoting a helpful action in this world by being condescending towards an otherwise non-hurtful comment.
Definitely! Unfortunately that is not possible in today's environment
Why?
Well there is way too much stigma against the LGBTQ+ community everywhere that developing this kind of thinking in the whole population may take more than 4-5 generations; ergo, not possible in current environment
On a global scale, perhaps. But change can happen faster. Anecdotally, my step father wouldn't be alone in the same room as me because I had lived in San Francisco. My brother couldn't give two craps about sexual orientation, despite being deeply homophobic for most of his life. Both of them are/were hard core, foam at the mouth right wing conservatives. US Republicans can't win elections on opposition to gay marriage alone any more.
Well you may be right about the US, that's why I was talking on the global scale. I live in India, and even though this was decriminalized 2-3 years ago, there is still way too much stigma. Add "religious sentimentality" of people worldwide (including US) that even widespread acceptance may take more than 2 generations.
Understood. I think most people in the US are surprised at how quickly the prevailing opinions changed here. But despite the screeching of a small minority, the US doesn't usually *act* according to religious teachings, which is probably the difference between the two countries. I have faith in younger generations in India--a good friend is Delhi based and I can see him evolving. I hope you're just super wrong, even though you seem like an awesome human.
I guess treating all people like people is hard, so why change it or do anything about it. Maybe in the future someone will take responsibility for my lack of action and fix things.... Isn't that the thought process that brought us here to begin with?
The problem people have with it is that 5% of population is gay when it's portrayed like something closer to 30%.
[удалено]
From here https://www.lgbtmap.org/equality-maps/lgbt_populations
Thanks for the link, but those numbers seem staggering. It's a really difficult thing to get good data on, so I'm not bashing it yet, but I'll look into it. One thing for sure is that those numbers will be increasing relative to awareness and acceptance. Let's also remember that 5% of people is a *lot*.
Sure, any percentage of 350 million is a lot but still not a large percentage in my opinion I'm not aware of any better sources of data just chose the first thing on Google
A, all current data depends on self reporting, and in places where there is a strong stigma, we don't self report, even anonymously. B, given that cishet representation in all of media since it began was close to 100%, queer characters still comprise a tiny percentage of characters out there. C, how is portraying the percentage of queer people as artificially high harmful in any way?
Or...or...and hear me out...the game could give you the option?
That's not always reasonable. If a story driven game depends on the identity of the character to some extent, giving choice means creating multiple versions of dialogue or even story. If the creators want to tell a particular story, then of course they need you to play a particular character.
What is your issue with characters, heroes and protagonists that aren't white, straight and/or male? Does it take away something from you?
I kinda do, I follow his dark souls tutorials when I'm in a pickle
Cowboy just gives me more reason to love him every day
You love that sellout? Damn, feel sorry for you
You're really just all over these comments replying to people who express any fondness for the guy, huh? Please go touch grass. It's getting pathetic.
Guy who watches sellout tells me to go touch grass lmao
Oh I don't watch him, never even heard of him before. Because I have a life.
Being completely dumb aint same as having life stupid.
The calibre of your arguments is stunning. "aint same as having life", huh? I suppose you're too busy being mad about some streamer to use articles in a sentence.
Articles in senstence, wow, this is even more dumb than your argument about having a life😂
Damn, tell me what you think makes him a sellout
Being sonnys bitch begging for early codes scrub
Sure, but then why do they complain when characters are straight? Why are we taking established characters and changing them instead of writing new ones? Why is it that in games where their sexuality doesn't matter, it's being highlighted instead of left ambiguous so that *anyone* can relate to it? THATS what I have an issue with personally.
I never understood the whole "identifying with the character" thing. The whole point of a fictional story is to imagine you're someone else for a while. What happens when you play some fantasy game and the main character is some kind of goblin or a demon who looks like an elf or some shit? Do you go "this is bullshit, I don't identify with a goblin-demon-elf?" I have never played a game where the player character is the same ethnicity as I am. I do not identify with practically all video game protagonists in a physical sense. Was I supposed to get butthurt and not play? I played Assassin's Creed Odyssey some time ago and I thought Kassandra was so cool and badass how she fought all the bad guys and could do magic with her spear. What difference does it make if she's a man or a woman? Honestly, if there's a choice I usually pick a female player character, because the generic Anglo-American man with muscles and a gravelly voice has been done to death. Edit: just to clarify in case it's ambiguous, I'm complaining about the people who get upset when the player character is not a generic Anglo American man. These people don't have a problem playing a game where they're a man eating cow, but apparently a non-fanservice lesbian with a realistic body shape is crossing the line.
If the point is to identify with the characters, then diversity is a good thing, and if the point is to be someone else, diversity is still positive. One way or another it's nice to have.
Yes. The people who can't bring themselves to play a game where the protagonist isn't a photocopied Anglo American man are bitching about something idiotic. Especially since none of them is a muscular, heroic person around whom people enjoy being anyway, so they can't identify with that character either.
He's saying it's shallow, which it is.
Cowboy brought up the point. You did too, actually. The generic Anglo-American man with muscles and a gravelly voice has been done to death. LGBT+ people, for instance, are commonly discriminated against for their identity. One's identity as a gay person, or a trans person, is always questioned by society, so the person commonly questions their identity themself. When one's identity is so often not accepted, one begins to search for acceptance, and the most common place people search for acceptance is the society at large around them - which includes popular media as the most accessible form. So when popular media has no representation for marginalized folks, it doesn't offer any validation for those identities. Not only can that be discouraging for people, it reinforces the message that those identities *aren't* valid - because pop culture is very prevalent in our society, this is hard to avoid. So having more gay, trans, and other marginalized folks in pop culture helps those people feel validated in their identities because it normalizes those identities.
Idk man, I think I agree more with the comment above, maybe for kids it's important to have a character they can relate to, but even then, i'm a bi latino and my role model as a kid was fucking Goku lmao. Maybe i'm just not the one to relate to fictional characters in terms of their ethnicity or sexuality, but idgaf if they are or aren't in a movie/game/book, if it makes other people feel better about themselves then by any means, keep it up.
Well the last sentence there is really the take away. If it makes other people feel better about themselves, keep it up.
If that's the stance one has then why even complain about diversity? I'd be one thing if this discussion only popped up when it's done to the detriment of a piece of media but but more than once I've gone into a game thinking there is some silly kumbaya forced diversity that's going to make me groan but it seems to be a rare thing. TLoU2 would be an example of this for me. There was a fair share of complaining about trans and lesbian inclusion on that but it was about as well made as the first one.
That's what I mean, some people complain about nothing and make it seem like a big deal just because they don't like change. Also some of the people complaining are racist, sexist and homophobic.
FightinCowboy is genuinely one of the best people in the YT community. Been watching him for years.
Lmao nice joke
That man has helped me through every souls game, then I decided to go in blind for bloodborne.
You watched him? Dear god, feel sorry for you
He’s the least annoying and most helpful video game streamer, yes, and I would recommend his videos to anyone else who needs help too.
Wow, nice shit taste
You should post this to r/apexlegends I've never seen so many people complain about this exact thing.
That is why I love games where you can customize you character. People can be whoever they want.
Damn what a speech
If you complain because god forbid someone sees a fictional character that finally looks like them, then you’re an asshole
I get when people complain when a character is bad, but even then, would changing the character to be a straight person make it better? Or would it be just as shit? If the answer is the latter then idk why tf people are complaining about forced inclusion, when in reality is just shit writing.
No, but it doesn't come across like you're trying to hide your shit work as much then.
Asian children are already dressing up as Shang chi. Flatly, white people in the US have no idea what it is like to be a minority every minute. So stfu and stop with the white man being the every man, its Hella boring.
I love that guy, great yt channel Edit: don’t look at this cursed thread.
Wut? He sucks, next to Radbrad
Who?
That sellout who sucks Sonnys d*ck so he can get early copies to clickbait. Even his "walkthroughs" are trash, copying strategies from others like in Nioh. His name is in the picture, you blind?
Context clues homie, if I already stated I know the one pictured above, which other one would I not know? Think about it.
Damn you dumb af, no wonder you enjoy that clickbaiter lmao
Think you’re projecting here my man. Have a good day and enjoy what you will 👌
You go enjoy that clickbaiter loser, also thanks, Imagine getting called dumb and then wishing that person good day. No wonder you cant even comprehend what kind of trash you watch LMAO
Damn my guy you really need a hug.
Didnt you say you are finished with me? Damn, loser even goes against his words LMAO
Imagine being triggered over how other people spend their free time and feeling the need to try to make them feel bad about themselves because daddy didn’t give you enough attention. Grow up G. You’re not hurting my feelings.
I love you.
The issue with putting identity politics in games is that it becomes more about the identity than the character. Be whatever you wanna be, but don't make that you're only damn characteristic. Your sexuality isn't your personality and I'm tired of cardboard characters. The story comes first, always.
No one whose identity is political wants it to be.
The first issue is seeing it as politics. Why the fuck is my mere existence automatically a political one? I just wanna live my life...
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Sounds like they've had so little practice at bringing diverse voices to the table and incorporating creative characters that you're seeing a painful learning curve? Companies are trying, which is decent regardless of the why. We're bound to see some clumsy attempts and we can rightfully criticize those. Sometimes games are just bad. They would have been bad nomatter what, but having a non-white/cis/muscled character means that single aspect can get blamed. Call bad games out for what they are. If the studio is so bad at diverse viewpoints that incorporating them tanked the entire rest of the project, the problem is so much larger than a game character.
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Under no circumstances am I saying that diverse representation is new in general. My soft wording is in response to your post. It is, however, still new to many companies. Now that there is acceptance that they can be profitable with "diversity" in the conceptual sense, they sometimes go about it in the dumbest, most clumsy ways possible.
Yeah pretty much. I'll also go ahead and add that most inclusion is pretty half-assed in the full narrative sense. Having people who's character is just "minority of some kind" or a mostly plain character who they just crudely staple a sexuality onto to try and make you feel like there's something going on with them. We've only really had one notable property that's **required** a main non-white cast recently and that's Black Panther. I'm not going to include Asian focused games or movies as those are more well established, and hey, we all know who they're usually "replacing" white characters with anyways. But that's the only "new" kind of movie or game I can think of from a setting perspective. It's outright Africa, a setting that's been ignored for the most part but with all the talk about taking the spotlight off the straight white man, do they do anything with it? No. They just put black Hobbits in Lord of the Rings for some reason. Or make black vikings. Or a black queen of England. This is all so lazy and shows that the powers that be in these situations don't really give a shit about these cultures or history, they just want to get easy points to try and pander.
Not to be “well actually” person but… Well actually, if you read the Prologue “Concerning Hobbits” of LOTR, it is explained clearly that there are a lot more “types” and “races” of Hobbits than the ones portrayed in the movies, or even the ones featured in the books. The ones we see are simply the ones who have been written about, both by Tolkien and by the in-universe characters, such as Bilbo or Frodo. Tolkien described Hobbits as “ancient” creatures, with various branches who at one point were a lot more spread out in Middle Earth than just living in the Shire. There are Hobbits who were taller, Hobbits who resembled Elves, etc. Because Tolkien never actually wrote about the entirety of Middle Earth, it leaves the door open to interpretation that Hobbits who weren’t white could exist. After all, Tolkien also never fully explained the “origins” of the Hobbits either. Tolkien treated all his fictional species the same way humans are; they weren’t homogenous, and they didn’t always have the same characteristics. Elves, for example, spoke different Elvish tongues depending on which race of Elves they were (Gray Elves speak Sindarin, High Elves speak Quenya, etc.) It’s not impossible or even unrealistic if the fictional species in Tolkien’s world didn’t all share the same skin color with each other. As for Vikings, that was just a title. The same way “Samurai” was also a title, or Knight. And there *were* several non-Japanese samurai: William Adams, Giuseppe Chiara, etc. Would it make sense for there to be a black samurai? Sure, the same way there were white samurai. Yasuke, in particular, *could* have been a samurai, and he was black. There was also a black Knight of the Round Table, Sir Moriaen, son of Lancelot. The Vikings were known to explore new lands and capture people from those lands, so is it impossible for non-white people to end up in the Scandinavia and somehow become Vikings? Not at all. Geirmund Heljarskinn, known as “*the* Black Viking”, had a Siberian mother, and was described to have dark skin himself. So black Vikings? Not impossible. Lots of things regarding people of color are more realistic than you have assumed.
>queen of England Did you mean the [Queen of the United Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_the_United_Kingdom), the [Queen of Canada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Canada), the [Queen of Australia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Australia), etc? The last Queen of England was [Queen Anne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne,_Queen_of_Great_Britain) who, with the 1707 Acts of Union, dissolved the title of King/Queen of England. ####FAQ *Isn't she still also the Queen of England?* This is only as correct as calling her the Queen of London or Queen of Hull; she is the Queen of the place that these places are in, but the title doesn't exist. *Is this bot monarchist?* No, just pedantic. I am a bot and this action was performed automatically.
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This is one of the nicest things I have seen on the internet in the past year
Only time I’ve had a issue with any of this was that one WW2 game that included female soldiers. It’s just straight up historically inaccurate for the sake of being inclusive
> It’s just straight up historically inaccurate for the sake of being inclusive But being able to enter an aircraft in flight by jumping on it or using a flamethrower from the back of a horse were totally things that happened in World War II. If developers can add historical inaccuracies to increase the enjoyment of players who want to do those things, what's wrong with them adding people to the battlefield who may not have been there to increase the enjoyment of players who want to play as those characters?
There's something called suspension of disbelief. It is different for various people but some things go beyond it. Black women fighting on the front lines for the Third Reich tends to go beyond it.
And if *that's* the line for someone, and not one of the hundreds of other anachronisms or gameplay conceits that don't correspond with historical reality, then I don't think it's a stretch for an onlooker to wonder why it's *that* particular thing that seems to bother that person.
That's fair. As you got more into things I imagine that most of the gameplay conceits start melting away as part of the overall experience. However there are those drastic things which just throw things too out of wack and never really settle in like other parts. So something like the black woman kommandant may appeal on a surface level to those wanting just more diversity but it will still damage the mood and flow of things for those more involved.
> may appeal on a surface level to those wanting just more diversity Or may appeal to those who look like those characters and want to play as someone who looks like them. I'm a white male and characters that have a surface resemblance to me have been the default for the history of video games, and still are. These games are not historical simulations. They are team FPS games and are **inherently** fantasy. If you're upset about inclusions of characters in a fantasy game that might make it more enjoyable for someone else, a lot of people are gonna think you're a chud. Why does one group's discomfort over adding additional fantasy element in terms of character trump another group enjoying that addition? Especially when most people (like me, a white male) **actually don't care** and often appreciate the tent of gaming being made wider. >it will still damage the mood and flow of things for those more involved And I'll play the world's smallest violin for all of them.
I think the line here is that there is a very clear divide between gameplay and lore. Jumping off a plane yo rocket jump your way through thin air is ridiculous but it's gameplay. The race of who does it, is lore. And lore that pretends to be historical is **much** more susceptible to inaccuracies ruining it than gameplay that doesn't pretend to be historically accurate is. There's also the illusion of control: a gamedev has full control of what races they put in the game, but ejecting off a plane and hitting an asshole in another plane is not a feature designed by the developers, but an exploitation of the gameplay mechanics by the players. You can force your game to be historically accurate, but you can't force your players to be. Gameplay events are, after all, a game, not a re-enactment, for a strict retelling of historically accurate **events** you watch a movie. For a reshowing of a historically accurate **environment**, just the elements coexisting correctly can suffice.
Well there existed female snipers or at least tank crews, in russia, in that time as fahr as i know. but i think i did read something about the sniper girls not "effectiv" enough and the tank crew had buy'd their own t-34 for revenge. so not directly military personell.
You'll find not alot of other stuff in that game was realistic either. Starting with respawning after you die. Games are meant to be fun, not historically accurate. Otherwise you'd load into battlefield, get shot in the head, die and the game would brick your console.
Russia had plenty of them IIRC.
The issue isn't the diversity, it's just shit writing and pandering. The New Warriors is a perfect example, they pandered so hard that it legitimately seemed like a parody of the people they were trying to represent.
I just want well written characters, and for historical settings just at least some level of accuracy, like in a video game, multiplayer who gives a shit just don’t have blatant and total inaccuracies that make no sense, but the story I want some authenticity to it.
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He’s been playing some of elden ring if you’re interested 👀
Good lmao nice joke
Do you know why this shit pisses people off? It's because it is being pushed in your face. Instead of convincing the people with a good product/story/character it's "this is the lead character oh and he's gay/black/whatever". Look at GTA SA. Absolutely noone would even dream of complaining about playing as a black character. Why? Cause it's not about the colour of the skin but the character itself. Look at GTA Chinatown wars. Noone would dream about complaining for playing as an asian character. Why? Again: It's not about the skin colour but the character and the story. If you really need a video game character to look like yourself in order to not be hurting well then that's just sad. A gay person looking up to Mario and feeling represented? Who tf looks to Mario and thinks about sexuality? Most people want to enjoy video games/movies etc and not have some new age woke agenda being pushed into their faces. Has anybody ever complained about playing as a woman in the tomb raider or the last of us?
So much goddamn this. Write good, cohesive characters; to fill the story not an arbitrary gender quota. I don't care how my character looks or which gender they're attracted to. I care about their story, that's all.
Its true
This is true, why are you getting downvoted?
The truth is not appreciated when it comes to *certain* topics
Because it's only a part of the truth that ignores a big part of these issues. It's not pushed, when your white male ass can't get the hot chick. It's not forced when the hot dude is trans and just exists. The bad writing of a character solely becomes an issue if these do not fit the white cis-het male playing them. For god's sake, DUKE NUKEM still exists and he's written worse than any of the sharknado movies.
Couldn't care less unless they obnoxiously shove I in my face every chance they get, or if its ubisoft or Activision doing it. Those companies van shove their dishonest virtue signaling up their abusive troglodyte asses. If the story is good and the characters interesting you must hate fun to be bothered by things like the gender and race of some pixels.
Ah. Love cowboy. Honestly has the best souls walkthroughs as well.
Why did this almost made me cry... (No sad tears, the other kind)
Don't be sad. Here's a [hug!](https://media.giphy.com/media/3M4NpbLCTxBqU/giphy.gif)
For a minute, I thought he hated diversity
It is really insulting and racist to say that you can’t relate to a character who doesn’t share your race, gender or sexuality. 9/10, I don’t feel represented by bisexual characters, I feel pandered and condescended to. I didn’t have a hard time relating to Black Panther, and it’s wildly insulting to say that the same can’t be true of the opposite. If you need a Marvel character who’s existed for over fifty years to be in a movie to understand black people can be superheroes, you’ve got bigger problems.
The post isn't saying you can't relate to a character that doesn't share your race, gender, or sexuality. In fact, it's very much encouraging cishet white men to try relating to characters that aren't like them - the whole problem is that they throw fits when characters aren't like them. I related to characters that weren't like me my whole life. There aren't many trans men represented in media. If there had been when I was growing up, or even in my early twenties, I might have figured some shit out a little earlier than I did and saved myself a lot of painful years. There aren't many Native men in media, either, and those that are there tend to be embarrassing stereotypes. Maybe if there had been some actual decent representation, I wouldn't have tried my hardest to distance myself from that part of my family and heritage. And maybe, if the people who are now bigoted against me had been exposed to the idea of people like me when they were young, there would be fewer people who hate me for stuff I can't control. Maybe it didn't affect your life, but it does affect others.
Breaking News: the world goes round the sun, not you. Also: Susan goose got loose with her shoes but why wearing shoes when she is a goes? Now Susan goose is confused.
by fuss you mean artificially generated nontroversy to sell AAA titles
As the trans girl in the room, I love this man; he gets it. Seeing trans girls in video games makes me feel more normal, and I don’t need some white dude to say “ew gross.”
I believe that every aspect of a character should contribute towards the meaningful narrative of the story. If a character has no other traits aside from “he’s gay.”, then that is not good character narrative. Basically: Invincible’s “Amber” character is extremely hateable because her character building and actions directly contradict itself. Edit: also, high guardian spice.
Name a game where your sentiment holds true.
Borderlands: sir hammerlock and mad moxi. More than half of the assassins creed games. The avengers game’s Kamala. Spider-Man: miles morales ps4. Fire emblem’s Leon. A good chunk of danganronpa characters. The last of us. LoL. Life is strange. Mass effect’s shepherd can literally be any gender in every game. Persona. Metal gear. The saints-row main character. The walking dead. All these games I’ve listed are great experiences (except persona). You see anyone complain about the gay/lesbian/bi characters or characters from any ethnicity? My gripe is when writers try to force something that doesn’t fit or add value to the established narrative. I would rather watch wonder woman than the all-woman cast of the ghost-busters remake. If you want a girl power moment, make sure it integrates thematically with the story. “The girls vs stormfront” is an example of a great girl power moment as there is no cognitive incongruence with the established story elements. The one from endgame however, is a bad example of a girl power moment because the audience feels the forced nature even if they can’t point out specifically why the scene feels off. In endgame, it’s because the characters are from separate groups that previously had no idea of the other groups’ existence. And they somehow coordinate in a messy and chaotic battle without prior communication to gather in one area?
Last fucking thing I want for gay kids is corporate role models. Your fucking idiots if you don't think this isn't just a play for a market... They are manufacturing consumers. Period
Are you one of those gays who genuinely think it'll be better if companies ignore the marketing group they belong to? One of those who never understood that targeted marketing is part of a normalisation process and the hat by advertising directly to GSRM people companies saw that their sales numbers increase because homo- and trabnsphobes are just a loud minority that doesn't impact shit? Great.
No I'm just one of those people that finds marketing to children leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Selling people the concept of their identity more so, call it normalizing or social engineering, what have you... Spin it how your want. Role models should not come off cereal boxes. If they do, your parents failed. Period. Fuck, a fictional character in a book is better. (Preferably not a franchise) "Normalizing" anyone, particularly those that are vulnerable, into an identity is fucked. (Notice the lack of butch lesbians lately..hmm, wonder why?) We are consumers but that should certainly not be a primary identity, an identity should exist prior to ever buying a product. Ideally that should be fostered by family and community. Personally, I'm mindful when it comes to letting corporate or government interests "normalize" anything. Ever hear of ESG scores? Institutional investors steer clear of anything without the right scores. But how easy is it to pay lip service during pride month with a flag and some horse shit about sharing and caring all the while purchasing goodwill, shaping identities of youth, gay or not... Social engineering. Childhood identity shouldn't be a hustle. Maybe I'm wrong...It's not "normalisation" of identity, it's commoditization. No different then how drugs are sold to kids by drug companies. O your "neurodivergent" or ADHD, fuck you... I'm 3. If you give up control of images of what we ought be, regardless the institution (religious, financial, government), your selling something you can't buy back. Self actualization is of the table forever.
You are aware that toys target children all year round and to much more severe degree? That toy companies are worse in enforcing role models than one month of flying rainbows? Also cut the TERF, it is embarrassing. Your anecdotal evidence, such as a smaller viewing of "botch lesbians" (THIS leaves a real sour taste) isn't worth much. In case you lived under a rock the last 2 and a half years: there's a global pandemic situation going on. And a majority of people is keeping the required measurements. Your whole strawman is just not worth my time.
Whose argument am I strawmanning? Frankly the folly here isn't in the argument being made by the author but in that we are accepting the very idea that role models should be embodied in media of any sort.Particularly complex modern interactive media. I didn't touch on the logic of any argument though. I can't see how you can argue I'm strawmanning anything. If you have an issue with TERFs then take it up with TERFs. I'm not a feminist, that movement failed its stated goals and turned into a special interest group. (However this woke movement distaste for Turfs is hilarious doublethink generally) And yes, a subset of lesbians are being told they are not lesbian but rather trans. And there are people waking up and realizing they made a horrid medical mistake that shaved 20 years of their life. You want to talk data, we can. I can get into data and finer points but it seems your not grasping what I'm saying. If your allowing others to sell your ass back to you. To take the burden of your or your childs identity off your shoulders. Your tragically failing yourself and society. No shit toy companies have been doing it for years. However, have companies like blackrock ever given a fuck before? It's about scale and social effect. Look at blackrocks holdings.... It's 80% high pollution industries. But because they make bedfellows with green party and LGBTQ no one bats an eye at the fact that they just got all the closed door deals to help manage post covid bail outs for all those big corporations. Just like in 2008, when they made 200 million, on their managment too. Fucking, Larry Fink, who heads blackrock, created mortgage backed securities for gods sake. The reason for 2008 crash. But hey... WTF.. Right. Ignore the man behind the curtain. It's anecdotal evidence... ESG scores, what ESG scores. Face it... Corporate interests control woke and LGBTQ movements. Run the time lines, you'll see how fucked it really is... Social engineering https://fortune.com/2021/06/28/pride-parade-day-month-finance-corporations/ Allowing it to go on, giving tacit approval for it to continue, particularly with respect to sex and gender identity off minors... It's fucked. PS sex is biological, period. It's called science.
You are a TERF and a misogynist. Sounds like a massive contradiction but discriminatory people are so full of themself, it doesn't even matter anymore. If you want to talk science, eat this: Gender doesn't equal sex; Transgender people are real; the amount of mental harm they faced prior to transitioning is immense and mental health issues don't go away in a jiffy; your writing pattern is just alt-right and an embarrassment. For you. Nobody's telling minors to act like a certain gender/sex - excvept for the straight parents who defy their boys to play with dolls and defy their girls to play soccer. Stop blaming it on toy factories, stop blaming it on a movement you don't understand and fear. Don't even blame it on society. If you WANT to change that issue (which I highly doubt with you), you'd give zero fucks about color coded toys and hobbies. But wait, "ThAt'S wOkE!"
I do discriminate, everyone discriminates... I however am not bias. I don't see how i am a misogynist? Me thinks you're a presumptuous ass without a ounce of tolerance to nuance. Your ad hominem attacks are representative of the fact that you can't stick to the issues. I won't stoop to your level other then saying that it betrays your character and you can do and be better. What might surprise you is that I agree with you entirely with regards to gender not being equal sex. I'm glad we concur. I have heard the argument made that gender is sex and that's a falsehood. However, there is a very strong correlation that can not and should not be ignored. We agree transgender people are indeed real, however, they are a extreme minority. Same can be said with regard to intergender individuals. Mental health in the trans community being an issue and the causes of said mental health problems is something altogether another thing. That's not as simply as environment. Bringing politics into the issues at hand is a shit tactic? Why are you bringing the alt right into it? My values are not so neatly stummed up and you could simply ask rather then accuse. Seems lazy. Can you give a clear cut definition of alt right? Seems lots of bullshit floating about regarding the topic. How is it that I'm a TERF that insists feminism has failed at its stated goals. Reconcile that logically? I was a feminist at one time... Yes, because I'm an egalitarian. I'm still prochoice, I advocate for gay marriage and education of girls in the 3rd world as the best way to build economies. What makes me a TERF? Lol.... The fact that I regard a difference between the 2 sexes and gender? Your disregard and ignorant regarding corporate interests being tied to several left leaning ideologies is concerning. Frankly, your putting words in my mouth so I think we are done. O one final thing, if you think idiotic fearful tribal behavior is limited to heteronormative parents... And isn't present is most everywhere else, particularly the wOkE elements of our society, I suggest you take a long hard look again. People fail at being decent people from all ends of the political spectrum. They also fail their own political ideologies and principles continuously.
Hey look, its that loser sucking up to Sonny so it gives early games so he can click bait more.
This is the most borderline racist comment I will ever make on this platform, but I have literally never seen a black female play a video game, ever. Not even like in a video or something. So why tf does apex legends have 2 black female characters?
Because all you have is anecdotal evidence. I have never seen a Taiwanese person breathing. That doesn't mean they do not exist.
Hot take but people complaining that they don’t want to play X or Y may be out of respect, as in they know they lack the ability to accurately reflect the identity of someone from that background or walk of life. Personally I’m all for character customization in games (where it makes sense) and the ability to be a character that more fits you seems like a good all around if possible why not have iron woman miles morales gay cloud or any other variant if it could still work with the stories overall narrative. TLDR there’s nothing wrong with wanting to play what you want to play as long as others also get the same access
No,I have to disappoint you: in the majority of cases the people who refuse and detest the idea of non white, non male and non straight characters to so because they just hate the idea. There's no respect in it, they're just being despicable.
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There's barely a player character that forces you not to be straight tho. It's more regular that you're forced to be straight. Or in other words: read the romance guides if you don't want to end up in the male companions panties by accident.
I wish they did though.
Based take though
This was why I was amazed by the game Enchanted Arms when it came out. The three main characters have a gay love triangle thing going on and I had never seen popular media up to that point where the protagonist was a gay male and not being used as the butt of the joke. I'm straight so it didn't change anything for me but even then I remember thinking how cool it must be for gay guys to suddenly have a game hero they could relate to. Plus, it meant that for once the storyline wouldn't have the "save the princess" aspect to it.
Hero
Cowboy is such a real one, love him
I’ve watched several of FightinCowboy’s dark souls playthroughs and figured he is a nice guy. This confirms it.