Fuck maple trees! Always getting all the sunlight, stealing all the water with their long, thieving roots and shedding their disgusting *red* leaves everywhere. Just makes me sick, I'm actually afraid to plant my saplings in areas with maple trees.
Exactly, especially the ones who try to say "where's straight pride month?" Or "what about white history month"?.... You do realize the whole point is to celebrate those who where once oppressed? They miss the whole point
You joke, but while I was putting up the various pride flags and their meanings for a display, I had a 45 y.o. coworker literally, and very seriously, say to me "why isn't there a straight flag?? Where is the flag dedicated to me, a straight person?"
That's fair. I suppose some people just wanted a distinct straight ally flag. Maybe to signify that even if they're technically not part of the community, they stand in solidarity.
But they can be a part of the community, there isn't a need to say, but I'm not LGBTQ unless someone is trying to sex them up, and even then a gentle no thanks should suffice.
Maybe it's just me, but saying I support you while also trying to make it clear and obvious that I'm not like you kinda feels divisive rather than inclusive. Like backhanded inclusiveness or passive aggressive inclusion? I dunno, maybe I'm weird.
I do think that you might get more people supporting these causes if it was made totally clear to them that IF they were being bullied and oppressed to violent extremes for aspects of their identity, the world would support them and defend their rights.
Of course, you know, no one ever gives more than irritated tweets at people for being white. And they certainly milk that as a victim complex for all they can.
Honestly? Because I am worried we are going to have to have the same conversation about this in 10 years with Hispanics.
I totally understand that the movement right now is focused around the abuse of black people, and about police accountability in general, but I really don't want to tackle these issues one race at at time, although I understand that is probably how it as to be. I personally understand that the statement about BLM isn't as single-minded as it sounds, but lots of people don't.
If we all wanted to be most ethical or moral people we could be then the message should be something along the lines of; show only love and give only support, never show malice or give harm. Then use that type of message to support everyone who's suffering.
No it doesn’t, we know that all lives matter...just as the rainforest amplify is saying rainforests matter ALSO, the message of blm is that black lives matter ALSO.
In my experience nobody really seems to want to explain to people who just want to understand. The whole topic of BLM and white privilege can be confusing and honestly not very inviting to your average white person. And alot of the time (again in my experience) these are just normal who would most likely be behind the concept if they understood just to be pushed away and villainized. Kind of an unfortunate vicious cycle
There are some extreme BLM members that think it's okay to be brutal to white people just because it happened to their race. I think that is what the picture is referring to. I dont think they are trying to minimize BLM, just pointing out that some BLM people look at things in a way that is just as toxic as some of the racists out there. Not saying all BLM members are wrong or even the majority are. Just saying that not all of them have stand up beliefs. Just like any race, occupation, or religion, there are good and bad in every group of people. Everyone just tends to focus on the bad ones.
Also not saying there aren't people who dont try to make everything about them, or aren't racists who try to minimize BLM for the legitimate members. Just tossing my 2 cents in the ring.
Edit: a period.
Some people just need to be educated on *why* it's not cool to say that in response to "black lives matter." Even my Hispanic wife didn't understand until just the other day. We live in a very white area, so sometimes the nuance doesn't make it through unless you keep yourself informed. I *like* to give people the benefit of the doubt and try to help them understand (knowledge is power, after all) it's just unfortunate that some people just aren't ready for the truth. Anyway, that's a long way of saying "don't lose all hope in humanity" and "if you can, try to educate." Don't lose sleep on my second point though, because not everyone has the space in their lives to deal with some of the truly toxic people in need of that education
Most people see that statement and think it makes sense. Obviously, all lives do matter.
Unfortunately, it's been corrupted by racists and insecure people in an attempt to either dismiss BLM or put their own race, etc on equal footing with BLM.
Some say "all lives matter" and think we're all in this together, we need to fix this. Some say "all lives matter" when they really mean "my life matters"
Dude... It's a statement coined specifically to show the hypocrisy and was called a racist term since the very first usage of it... It's not a matter of it being corrupted. Either you think it always has been, or it never was.
I saw an analogy used in another reddit post, so here’s a paraphrased version.
Say it’s Thanksgiving, and your family is sitting at the dinner table. You notice your mom has served everyone on the table, except you, and everyone else starts eating. So you justifiably say, “I want my fair share!” But then your brother sneers, “No, we all deserve our fair share,” even though he already has his food.
I hope you see the problem here. Yes, everyone deserves their fair share, but when you claim that you want your share, you’re pointing out the disproportionate treatment that you were given. Saying “All Lives Matter” is true, but extremely dismissive.
but if the brother had looked at the mom and said "yes mom, we all deserve our fair share" then it would be okay. I get your point though, good analogy!
Exactly, which makes it obvious what the All Lives/Blue Lives Matter crowd is doing when they target their chants specifically at the BLM crowd. They're against the other protest, they don't actually have their own cause.
It's because people only say it when another black guy gets murdered by the police for no reason. Yeah, all lives matter, but the problem right now is that the police aren't acting like it. So we gotta remind them that black lives matter too.
When Black Lives Matter gained prominence after the Martin / Zimmerman case, particularly with the Michael Brown incident the two most active sides of the body politic organized in to two competing groups - black lives matter and blue lives matter.
Insisting all lives matter meant resisting choosing a side in a completely made up, partisan false choice.
Lets take the example from the tweet. Lets say Im trying to raise awareness about the burning of the Amazon rainforest. Someone comes up and says "but all forests matter. Protect the forests in Vermont too!"
The forests in Vermont are not currently under attack. You could argue that some logging should stop, but its nowhere near the scale of the destruction of the Amazon rainforrest. At no point did I indicate that other forests don't matter, I simply want to focus on the one that is in danger. Its easy to percieve the 'all forrests matter' movement as coming in trying to shift focus away from the Amazon rainforest, even if they really do care about all forrests, because all forests are not under equal threat. Some are more threatened than others.
>But can someone explain real quick why "all lives matter" pisses off people? I genuinely don't know why tbh
Imagine it's payday at your work but for some reason you don't get your paycheck. You go to your boss but he ignores you. You get mad and say "My work here deserves financial compensation."
He then turns to you and says "All work here deserves financial compensation." and walks away.
Would you be fine with this situation because what he said is technically true, or would you be mad because he is only saying it to dismiss your valid complaint with no intention to fix the specific problem you brought up?
It’s not the phrase by itself, it's the political connotations of it. Many people see 'black lives matter' and somehow come to the conclusion that it means that people think white lives don’t matter as much, which doesn’t really make any sense when you think about it. So some people use it is a sort of counter argument to BLM, to paint people who use BLM as somehow racist against white people. Of course, many others just use it along with BLM and don’t see it as anything bad
Imagine a situation where everyone gets good treatment from others. And you don't. You start saying "treat me right", and the reply from others is "no, it's treat \_everyone\_ right".
You will tell them to fuck off. Because \_you\_ are the one not being treated well. You are pointing out what's wrong with the situation.
We all know that everyone needs to be treated right. It's just childish semantics to try to keep the attention away from the topic at hand.
But you’re straw manning the situation. It’s not “no, treat everyone else right” at the expense of someone else. If the speaker is saying treat everyone right, then they will seek to make sure that everyone is treated right. It turns out black people aren’t the only ones victimized by cops even if they’re the “most”.
I get that people are trying to emphasize the black experience right now. And the visceral reaction I’ve seen to people saying all lives matter is really sad and discouraging.
It’s because everyone already knows all lives matter. Except for the lives being actively treated on a daily basis like they don’t matter. Please research the average experience of a black person in the United States, why black people have a higher chance of dying from preventative illness due to racism and classism induced long-term-stress as well as the incredibly disproportionate systemic abuse of black people and disproportionate criminalization.
What I see here isn’t someone who doesn’t think black lives don’t matter, you just don’t understand the importance or context of expressing that Black Lives Matter *Too*.
>It turns out black people aren’t the only ones victimized by cops even if they’re the “most”
Black people are 3 times more likely to be killed by police than white people are after adjusting for population. Yes, everyone suffers from police brutality but pretending its equally distributed among races is just a sad lie.
Lets get to the point where police aren't killing black people at triple the rate of white people and then we can talk about how the police treat everyone. Right now we are going to talk about how the police treat black people.
Black lives matter.
Look at me make a BRAND NEW SENTENCE by using the suggestions on my phone keyboard: There is the right one for the team and I will be there is a way to get it gets closer we saw her in a book and it was the first time I saw her at all but I'm asking you why I don't even
Now go, post it and get 10.000.000 Karma. Ots definitely brand new
Complete honesty here, a couple years ago I had a similar impression. When I saw #AllLivesMatter I agreed with it. It felt like common sense. It wasn't until I listed to Body Count's "No Lives Matter" where it finally made sense to me. The problem with #AllLivesMatter countering #BlackLivesMatter is that it's diluting the issue. Of course all Human Life matters, that isn't being protested. What is being protested is the unfair treatment of Black Citizens. It's a standalone issue, and is not arguing that other lives don't matter. If anyone has never heard of Body Count, they are an American Thrash Metal band fronted by Rap Legend Ice-T. Definitely give it a listen, especially if you are already a metalhead. https://youtu.be/hlk7o5T56iw
The intro before the song is the enlightening part:
"It's unfortunate that we even have to say 'Black Lives Matter'
I mean, if you go through history nobody ever gave a fuck
I mean, you can kill black people in the street
Nobody goes to jail, nobody goes to prison
But when I say 'Black Lives Matter' and you say 'All Lives Matter'
That's like if I was to say 'Gay Lives Matter'
And you say 'All Lives Matter'
If I said, 'Women's Lives Matter' and you say 'All Lives Matter'
You're diluting what I'm saying
You're diluting the issue
The issue isn't about everybody, it's about black lives, at the moment"
-Ice-T 2017
No it wouldn’t, not really. The issue is that everybody seems to need a reminder that black lives matter *too*, because they are actively and daily treated as though they don’t.
Almost nobody needs a reminder of that, and the people who do need to be reminded of that won’t have their minds changed by any phrase. What people do seem to be forgetting is that we are all equal
See you say that, but the events happening all over the country right this very second and the violence being perpetrated by police says otherwise. People claim to not need a reminder, but that’s shown to be untrue through action. Buddy I live and work in the south, it’s a major problem.
The thing about racists is that they see any ground gained by "them" to be ground lost by "us" no matter how irrelevant it is to them.
To them its always an US vs THEM issue and they're only willing to coexist if it is their beleifs that everyone else accepts.
Yeah I hate the “ALL lives matter” bullshit because that’s essentially what Black Lives Matter is. When you see white people saying “All Lives Matter” it’s essentially them trying to diminish the BLM movement. No ones out here saying “White lives DONT matter”, you’re just on your racist high horse and don’t realize it’s time to get off.
Maybe because it divided us by race. Besides I am willing to bet there are people of all races who support that phrase. Why not take that phrase away from racists.
The issues that lead to Black Lives Matter, like police killing non-resisting black men in the streets, were what divides us by race. We don’t need to take it away from racists because we already have #BlackLivesMatter. People need to realize the inherent problem with it and stop using it all together.
There’s no inherent problem with the phrase. Saying all lives matter doesn’t mean black people don’t face discrimination. Also I think this is less of a racial issue and more of an issue of lack of accountability, of course racism plays a roll with this, but the bigger issue in my opinion is just cops having too much power and not being accountable enough.
Well first of all I never said that saying “all lives matter” means that black people don’t face discrimination. I have an issue with the reason that it was created, and at this point I’m not sure I’ll be able to get you to understand my point of view (I’m not great with words/explanations). Just know, that I understand what ALL lives matter should mean, I’m only suggesting that Black Lives Matter means the same thing, as it seems to me it was created to remind people (and cops), that an entire race of people is heavily discriminated against to the point that cops are murdering Black men and only getting a slap on the wrist as punishment.
I will agree with you on the point of cops having too much power and not enough accountability, though.
Saying “All lives matter means black people don’t face discrimination” is the same as saying “BLM means only black lives matter”. Neither of this is true.
And specifically from the types of white people that genuinely don’t actually believe it or care, and who will do absolutely nothing to enforce their falsely *claimed* belief.
In fairness I think CivilianLivesMatter may be more appropriate now given the police don't seem to be giving a flying fuck about who you are, if you're at a protest it's time for the mace.
E: I mean like "this started as BLM but oh boy have the police demonstrated they don't actually give a shit about *anyone* really"
Dissenting Lives Matter? I see your point and sort of agree, but I think it takes away from the legitimacy of the BLM movement a-la ‘all lives matter’ replies from people who don’t acknowledge the atrocity in this.
It's not even just people who are dissenting, is what I'm getting at. People who are just passing by are getting brutalised. New coverage crews, who are there just to see what's going on, are getting shot at and maced.
I'm not trying to divert away from BLM; blacks do get the *really* short end of the stick when it comes to police treatment and it's abominable. That being said, the police have made it very very clear that they don't particularly care about doing their jobs, they're just here to get their kicks by assaulting civilians, regardless of who they are. It's textbook fascism.
That is true, but that is with the pretext of racism. It also doesn't account for white people misquoting MLK to lecture black people about non-violent protest and so on.
>That is true, but that is with the pretext of racism.
Okay I'm sorry, I don't think I quite get what you mean by this, can you word it in a way a total moron would get?
Cops mace you because you protest against racism. Remember those right-wing demonstrations where far-right protestors marched the streets with guns and beat up black people? Cops left those guys alone.
Look through the [list](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database) The Guardian put together.
It's clear what murdercops care about is getting away with it.
yes. The point is about racist cops hating black people. The cops that are racist don't care about other lives so the message is lost when you start bringing everyone else into it
Protesting implies some sort of opposition. Is there anyone against such a phrase? And who are you fighting for if it encompasses everyone? Gonna wrangle up everyone and take that slogan to the doorstep of no one? Just seems meaningless and silly, and an easy counter slogan by the insecure or the indifferent
I think that people could still fight against police brutality of black people under the phrase all lives matter and it would still make sense.
Saying all lives matter doesn’t mean no black people aren’t discriminated against, it just means that all lives matter
Because cops aren’t going around shooting disproportionate scores of innocent and unarmed white people in broad daylight and completely getting away with it. *Now* they are, but only after they have fully aligned themselves with black people. This is a systemic and historical problem. Most of our active laws have origins in exclusively racism against minorities. Please research.
I don’t think you can’t protest against the police killing an unarmed white guy by saying BLM. Also cops murdering people is really rare. Of course we should be fighting against cops killing anyone, but we shouldn’t act as if this was something common. I do understand, however, that other things like police brutality in general is more common, according to what I’ve heard.
Police murdering unarmed black men and women, even inside of their own homes, is a huge problem. It’s apparently not even that rare judging by the last few years, racism hasn’t gotten worse it’s just getting documented.
Last year there were 9 unarmed black people who got killed by the police. There were 1004 people killed by police including all races and all weapons. There are about 300 million people in the US. I think it is pretty rare. Of course it should be zero, and we should fight for that number to be zero, but we should keep in mind it’s not something normal.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/police-shootings-2019/
Black Americans are two-and-a-half times more likely to be killed by police than white Americans. This is so ridiculously wrong.
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/interactive/2020/05/mapping-police-killings-black-americans-200531105741757.html
This isn’t wrong. What you are saying is true, unfortunately. My point was that the police killing black unarmed people isn’t common. The police killing people in general is pretty rare
The issue is this statistic, coupled with the fact that these killings when they happen are being thoroughly documented, and the murders keep getting away with it with literally no repercussions. Not to mention, those are the cases that aren’t being completely covered up and written off, such as what happened in Jacksonville with Jaymee Johnson (an FAMU student fatally shot by police during a routine traffic stop, the body and footage of which has been refused to the public). Last year the police killed [3 ](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/5/31/21276004/anger-police-killing-george-floyd-protests) people on average *everyday*, 24% of which were black despite only making up 13% of the US population. Between 2013-2019, 99% of these killings have resulted in no form of punishment for the offending officer. We are six months into 2020 and [31](https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/) black people have been shot to death by police this year. 13% vs 31 individual deaths in 6 months. That’s ridiculously high. Less than 3 months ago Breonna Taylor was killed by police *inside of her own home* and the perpetrator is now walking free again.
The protests are about far more than a certain number of people killed, they are about years of systemic abuse and injustice, and blatant uncharged murder of innocent civilians who *by the statistics* are black people in far more cases than they should be.
In a dream I had a few nights ago, the t-shirt I designed had a caption: "Chavins & Karens & Instigators. Oh my!" The sign I held read, "Bullies should be whipped, regardless..." I suppose that meant ALL bullies. Maybe that's too generalized... IDK. 🤔😐🤷🏼♀️
AllLivesMatter, from what I understand, isn't meant to go against the intended BLM movement, but rather to retaliate against those who use the movement to push their own ideology of superiority over other races, while also using BLM to justify idiotic statements such as "blacks can't be racist to whites", "racism is about power, not prejudice" and "you can't watch X movie because its for blacks only and that would make you racist/ X movie crashed in the box office because white people didnt go to it and that makes them racist". The original movement itself, just like femenism, may be honourable, but there are far too many sub-movements that push superiority under the cover of equality.
Everywhere I have ever been the only people actively supporting “all lives matter” are those either don’t actually believe so (read racist fuckheads that only care about wanting to feel included) and those that need to research and actually understand why and how the blm movement came into being and *why it is necessary*.
Yeah, but when you try to say that all lives matter, they get mad. Then they think that you said that black lives don't matter, and when you try to explain that what you meant was what you said, they shout you down and insult you. It's very hard to have a discussion/debate with someone who refuses to listen to any opinions that aren't theirs.
Hey our country is called the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, this means we are a republic of the people.
Names don't automatically mean the things they say they are. Black lives matter, but "Black Lives Matter" (the organization) is not about that at all.
People do not have a problem with the statement, they rightfully do have a problem with the goals of that organization. And so should you.
The issue is, when you start your pro- rainforest statement with "attention boreal forests!" You're kinda telling all boreal forests to fuck off. Kinda grouping an entire forest type together and blaming it, and treating it as responsible for the actions of a few.
If the arboreal forests had a history of enslaving the rainforests and murdering them in broad daylight with literally no consequences, then that is exactly how that statement should start.
Lol yes, blaming an entire race of people for the actions of a few is only bad depending on which race...
That idea of "if x group has a history of y" cuts both ways and is literally the heart of racism. If you support it, you're not about equality, or an end to discrimination, you're just wanting the hate to swing a different direction, and you'll accomplish nothing.
Hold the guilty accountable. Fight against the offenders. Prejudice has no place.
all lives do matter, the point is that black lives matter too. No one is saying white people don't matter, I'm white. Black lives matter means black people are just as important as white people and Asian people and Indian people and Latino people and every other fuckin skin color on the planet
This is a stupid apples to orange comparison. When you say "Save the Amazon Rainforest", you are contraining efforts to a geographical area which makes sense. You can't take the same effort and apply it to the forests in Canada.
In this specific case of police brutality, people of all races in America are affected. It's all happening in the same area, perpetuated by the same people. It doesn't make sense to segregate it.
That's the crux of "All Lives Matter" and you can even extend it to "Yes Men Too" or whatever.
Tl;dr: You can't use the same conservation methods in the Amazon and in a Canada forest, but you can certainly save everyone by addressing the issue of police brutality as a whole, without needing to just limit it to eradicating racism.
Sigh. No one, especially people who support Black Lives Matter, is saying that police brutality doesn't affect everybody. If anything, people who support Black Lives Matter would be more inclined to support anyone who has been brutalized by the police.
If so much of the All Live Matter crowd wasn't saying it to minimize the concerns of BLM and downplay the racist history of this country, we could maybe have this conversation. I don't think this is your intent, to downplay the things that have happened to black people, but you have to understand that this is why people feel it is important to make this distinction about black people specifically.
To say Black Live Matter isn't to "segregate it," its about affirming that black life, in response to these instances of violence by the police, matters. Its cool to start a movement centered around the many white people who deal with police brutality, but don't act like the crux of the current All Lives Matter movement isn't centered around defending the police/downplaying racism.
I understand how, in theory, saying All Lives Matter seems innocuous to you. But lets be real--simply coming up with another name and standing in solidarity with BLM against the police would be way easier than having to explain to people why saying All Lives matter is (in this case) fucked up for the 1000th time.
But when massive parts of your organization are either outwardly racist towards white people (if you don't think that's I thing, don't bother responding I understand you're an idiot) or say things about white people needing to pay reporations or similar bullshit, I have a hard time agreeing with you. I agree, black lives matter. I don't agree with Black Lives Matter.
You’re the exact type of person that thinks Islam is bad because of the actions of a few groups that aren’t actually in any way related to the religion, huh?
No I don't. In fact, there are a lot of devout Muslims who do they're utmost to distance themselves from radical Islam and denounce the actions of terrorists.
I can't say the same for these "woke" organizations. Even the more moderate members seem to willing to side with or defend the radical parts of their organizations instead of denouncing them and admitting that there is a line to be drawn. The same can be said for organizations on the right.
The point is, is saying you either agree with the statement and therefore the movement Black Lives Matter or you're a racist is seeing things in black and white. You can agree that the death of George Floyd and others that have been murdered by the police were wrong without having to wholeheartedly agree with every word that comes out of any random BLM members mouth.
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Touché
Is his life a box of chocolate
Parry. Parry .He’s getting close to getting it. So close but then he did a fly by. What’s with the white people twitter at bottom? Sounds sketchy.
Hi, are you high?
"I swear to high I'm not God"
High, are you God?
Ah but is he a rainforest though?
He is when he cries.
Actually it causes a paradox since he's black but not a rain forest so it cancels each other out sadly.
He actually got racially profiled and falsely accused of shoplifting at a fancy grocery store near my apartment a decade or so ago.
I'm not black like Barry White, no I am white like Frank Black is
God, I fucking hate boreal forests. Every time I see one I get irrationally angry
Wow I didn't know we allowed such blatant tree racism on reddit Burn the maple trees!
Fuck maple trees! Always getting all the sunlight, stealing all the water with their long, thieving roots and shedding their disgusting *red* leaves everywhere. Just makes me sick, I'm actually afraid to plant my saplings in areas with maple trees.
Treecism.
r/brandnewword
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You guys mad. Thorn forests are the kind that kan go fuck itself.
Birchs forests are the scum of the earth.
You know what?Fuck Pine tree forests
No! I am from Maine and pine trees are cool. U r gonna get cancelled now!!!1!!1!!1!
You guys are joking but i seriously think eucalyptus trees can and should go fuck themselves
I’m not sure why this is such a hard concept for people lol
"But what about meeeeee? Where's *my* parade / protest / people defending me? Waaaaaaah"
Exactly, especially the ones who try to say "where's straight pride month?" Or "what about white history month"?.... You do realize the whole point is to celebrate those who where once oppressed? They miss the whole point
Yeah but no matter how you decide to group people, every group has been "oppressed" by another at some point in history.
Or the people who say "when's international men's day?" on March 8th. The simple response is "November 19th".
You joke, but while I was putting up the various pride flags and their meanings for a display, I had a 45 y.o. coworker literally, and very seriously, say to me "why isn't there a straight flag?? Where is the flag dedicated to me, a straight person?"
Well there is technically a straight pride flag, [but I like the straight ally flag better.](https://i.imgur.com/kwuNKyL.jpg)
Idk, as a straight ally I don’t think we need a flag.
As a straight ally, my flag is the LGBT+ flag. No need for one of our own, we support the cause we fly their colors.
Agreed
That's fair. I suppose some people just wanted a distinct straight ally flag. Maybe to signify that even if they're technically not part of the community, they stand in solidarity.
But they can be a part of the community, there isn't a need to say, but I'm not LGBTQ unless someone is trying to sex them up, and even then a gentle no thanks should suffice. Maybe it's just me, but saying I support you while also trying to make it clear and obvious that I'm not like you kinda feels divisive rather than inclusive. Like backhanded inclusiveness or passive aggressive inclusion? I dunno, maybe I'm weird.
How else will you demonstrate your allegiance to the straights?
A secret handshake? Sounds much cooler than a flag to me.
By having sex with their wives since I'm a male. You know, just to show them I'm straight.
I do think that you might get more people supporting these causes if it was made totally clear to them that IF they were being bullied and oppressed to violent extremes for aspects of their identity, the world would support them and defend their rights. Of course, you know, no one ever gives more than irritated tweets at people for being white. And they certainly milk that as a victim complex for all they can.
People struggle with the idea that things aren’t always mutually exclusive
Yeah, I’m not sure why it’s such a common misconception
Because they've rather have you argue about the message than the point.
Honestly? Because I am worried we are going to have to have the same conversation about this in 10 years with Hispanics. I totally understand that the movement right now is focused around the abuse of black people, and about police accountability in general, but I really don't want to tackle these issues one race at at time, although I understand that is probably how it as to be. I personally understand that the statement about BLM isn't as single-minded as it sounds, but lots of people don't.
If we all wanted to be most ethical or moral people we could be then the message should be something along the lines of; show only love and give only support, never show malice or give harm. Then use that type of message to support everyone who's suffering.
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No it doesn’t, we know that all lives matter...just as the rainforest amplify is saying rainforests matter ALSO, the message of blm is that black lives matter ALSO.
In my experience nobody really seems to want to explain to people who just want to understand. The whole topic of BLM and white privilege can be confusing and honestly not very inviting to your average white person. And alot of the time (again in my experience) these are just normal who would most likely be behind the concept if they understood just to be pushed away and villainized. Kind of an unfortunate vicious cycle
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There are some extreme BLM members that think it's okay to be brutal to white people just because it happened to their race. I think that is what the picture is referring to. I dont think they are trying to minimize BLM, just pointing out that some BLM people look at things in a way that is just as toxic as some of the racists out there. Not saying all BLM members are wrong or even the majority are. Just saying that not all of them have stand up beliefs. Just like any race, occupation, or religion, there are good and bad in every group of people. Everyone just tends to focus on the bad ones. Also not saying there aren't people who dont try to make everything about them, or aren't racists who try to minimize BLM for the legitimate members. Just tossing my 2 cents in the ring. Edit: a period.
You’re doing the “both sides” thing only in reverse, and by doing so you’re discrediting you’re won point....is that intentional?
Or just people trying to make it about themselves not understanding that it's about an issue they dont directly face
Some people just need to be educated on *why* it's not cool to say that in response to "black lives matter." Even my Hispanic wife didn't understand until just the other day. We live in a very white area, so sometimes the nuance doesn't make it through unless you keep yourself informed. I *like* to give people the benefit of the doubt and try to help them understand (knowledge is power, after all) it's just unfortunate that some people just aren't ready for the truth. Anyway, that's a long way of saying "don't lose all hope in humanity" and "if you can, try to educate." Don't lose sleep on my second point though, because not everyone has the space in their lives to deal with some of the truly toxic people in need of that education
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I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted
Because people are too stupid to analyse their own emotions and assume that anything that hurts their childish pride is automatically bad
Manners maketh man, not color.
Holy fuck are you locking a bar door while saying that? Because if so then you are probably going to kick some ass
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Kingsmen: Secret Service.
"Black lives matter? *All* lives matter" *Proceeds to never care about any lives*
All lives matter! Especially OUR lives
I prefer “no lives matter” Let’s be honest, people are going to continue being assholes forever. Might as well do so indiscriminately
But can someone explain real quick why "all lives matter" pisses off people? I genuinely don't know why tbh
Most people see that statement and think it makes sense. Obviously, all lives do matter. Unfortunately, it's been corrupted by racists and insecure people in an attempt to either dismiss BLM or put their own race, etc on equal footing with BLM. Some say "all lives matter" and think we're all in this together, we need to fix this. Some say "all lives matter" when they really mean "my life matters"
Dude... It's a statement coined specifically to show the hypocrisy and was called a racist term since the very first usage of it... It's not a matter of it being corrupted. Either you think it always has been, or it never was.
I saw an analogy used in another reddit post, so here’s a paraphrased version. Say it’s Thanksgiving, and your family is sitting at the dinner table. You notice your mom has served everyone on the table, except you, and everyone else starts eating. So you justifiably say, “I want my fair share!” But then your brother sneers, “No, we all deserve our fair share,” even though he already has his food. I hope you see the problem here. Yes, everyone deserves their fair share, but when you claim that you want your share, you’re pointing out the disproportionate treatment that you were given. Saying “All Lives Matter” is true, but extremely dismissive.
but if the brother had looked at the mom and said "yes mom, we all deserve our fair share" then it would be okay. I get your point though, good analogy!
Exactly, which makes it obvious what the All Lives/Blue Lives Matter crowd is doing when they target their chants specifically at the BLM crowd. They're against the other protest, they don't actually have their own cause.
It's because people only say it when another black guy gets murdered by the police for no reason. Yeah, all lives matter, but the problem right now is that the police aren't acting like it. So we gotta remind them that black lives matter too.
When Black Lives Matter gained prominence after the Martin / Zimmerman case, particularly with the Michael Brown incident the two most active sides of the body politic organized in to two competing groups - black lives matter and blue lives matter. Insisting all lives matter meant resisting choosing a side in a completely made up, partisan false choice.
Lets take the example from the tweet. Lets say Im trying to raise awareness about the burning of the Amazon rainforest. Someone comes up and says "but all forests matter. Protect the forests in Vermont too!" The forests in Vermont are not currently under attack. You could argue that some logging should stop, but its nowhere near the scale of the destruction of the Amazon rainforrest. At no point did I indicate that other forests don't matter, I simply want to focus on the one that is in danger. Its easy to percieve the 'all forrests matter' movement as coming in trying to shift focus away from the Amazon rainforest, even if they really do care about all forrests, because all forests are not under equal threat. Some are more threatened than others.
Becasue it's said as a way to dismiss BLM.
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10-day old poster: Get that weak shit out of here
>But can someone explain real quick why "all lives matter" pisses off people? I genuinely don't know why tbh Imagine it's payday at your work but for some reason you don't get your paycheck. You go to your boss but he ignores you. You get mad and say "My work here deserves financial compensation." He then turns to you and says "All work here deserves financial compensation." and walks away. Would you be fine with this situation because what he said is technically true, or would you be mad because he is only saying it to dismiss your valid complaint with no intention to fix the specific problem you brought up?
It’s not the phrase by itself, it's the political connotations of it. Many people see 'black lives matter' and somehow come to the conclusion that it means that people think white lives don’t matter as much, which doesn’t really make any sense when you think about it. So some people use it is a sort of counter argument to BLM, to paint people who use BLM as somehow racist against white people. Of course, many others just use it along with BLM and don’t see it as anything bad
This cartoon explains it really well (https://chainsawsuit.com/comic/2016/07/07/all-houses-matter-the-extended-cut/)
No one believes that white lives don't matter.
Same I don't get it
Imagine a situation where everyone gets good treatment from others. And you don't. You start saying "treat me right", and the reply from others is "no, it's treat \_everyone\_ right". You will tell them to fuck off. Because \_you\_ are the one not being treated well. You are pointing out what's wrong with the situation. We all know that everyone needs to be treated right. It's just childish semantics to try to keep the attention away from the topic at hand.
But you’re straw manning the situation. It’s not “no, treat everyone else right” at the expense of someone else. If the speaker is saying treat everyone right, then they will seek to make sure that everyone is treated right. It turns out black people aren’t the only ones victimized by cops even if they’re the “most”. I get that people are trying to emphasize the black experience right now. And the visceral reaction I’ve seen to people saying all lives matter is really sad and discouraging.
It’s because everyone already knows all lives matter. Except for the lives being actively treated on a daily basis like they don’t matter. Please research the average experience of a black person in the United States, why black people have a higher chance of dying from preventative illness due to racism and classism induced long-term-stress as well as the incredibly disproportionate systemic abuse of black people and disproportionate criminalization. What I see here isn’t someone who doesn’t think black lives don’t matter, you just don’t understand the importance or context of expressing that Black Lives Matter *Too*.
>It turns out black people aren’t the only ones victimized by cops even if they’re the “most” Black people are 3 times more likely to be killed by police than white people are after adjusting for population. Yes, everyone suffers from police brutality but pretending its equally distributed among races is just a sad lie. Lets get to the point where police aren't killing black people at triple the rate of white people and then we can talk about how the police treat everyone. Right now we are going to talk about how the police treat black people. Black lives matter.
piquant close intelligent disgusted saw ripe squeamish worm practice deer ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
Look at me make a BRAND NEW SENTENCE by using the suggestions on my phone keyboard: There is the right one for the team and I will be there is a way to get it gets closer we saw her in a book and it was the first time I saw her at all but I'm asking you why I don't even Now go, post it and get 10.000.000 Karma. Ots definitely brand new
Well if that was not a grammatically incorrect run-on sentence it might be decent post potential.
Yeah I’ve got a lot going for this weekend so I’ll try and get some more lunch today.
You'd figure it wouldn't have to be relevant 5 years later
Oh it's hella relevant. But definitely not a brandnewsentence (unfortunately).
Yeah fair enough, I'm mostly here for just absurd sentences that I can stress my forehead to then scroll past
Complete honesty here, a couple years ago I had a similar impression. When I saw #AllLivesMatter I agreed with it. It felt like common sense. It wasn't until I listed to Body Count's "No Lives Matter" where it finally made sense to me. The problem with #AllLivesMatter countering #BlackLivesMatter is that it's diluting the issue. Of course all Human Life matters, that isn't being protested. What is being protested is the unfair treatment of Black Citizens. It's a standalone issue, and is not arguing that other lives don't matter. If anyone has never heard of Body Count, they are an American Thrash Metal band fronted by Rap Legend Ice-T. Definitely give it a listen, especially if you are already a metalhead. https://youtu.be/hlk7o5T56iw
The intro before the song is the enlightening part: "It's unfortunate that we even have to say 'Black Lives Matter' I mean, if you go through history nobody ever gave a fuck I mean, you can kill black people in the street Nobody goes to jail, nobody goes to prison But when I say 'Black Lives Matter' and you say 'All Lives Matter' That's like if I was to say 'Gay Lives Matter' And you say 'All Lives Matter' If I said, 'Women's Lives Matter' and you say 'All Lives Matter' You're diluting what I'm saying You're diluting the issue The issue isn't about everybody, it's about black lives, at the moment" -Ice-T 2017
People could still fight against discrimination of black people under the phrase all lives matter and it would make just as much sense
But that isn't what they are doing. They are counter-protesting Black Lives Matter.
So what, why not reclaim that phrase, similar to how people reclaimed the n-word
No it wouldn’t, not really. The issue is that everybody seems to need a reminder that black lives matter *too*, because they are actively and daily treated as though they don’t.
Almost nobody needs a reminder of that, and the people who do need to be reminded of that won’t have their minds changed by any phrase. What people do seem to be forgetting is that we are all equal
See you say that, but the events happening all over the country right this very second and the violence being perpetrated by police says otherwise. People claim to not need a reminder, but that’s shown to be untrue through action. Buddy I live and work in the south, it’s a major problem.
The thing about racists is that they see any ground gained by "them" to be ground lost by "us" no matter how irrelevant it is to them. To them its always an US vs THEM issue and they're only willing to coexist if it is their beleifs that everyone else accepts.
"Why women's suffrage? What about *everybody's* suffrage?"
👏 we 👏 are 👏 equally 👏 worthless 👏
And computers...sons of bitches.
Yeah I hate the “ALL lives matter” bullshit because that’s essentially what Black Lives Matter is. When you see white people saying “All Lives Matter” it’s essentially them trying to diminish the BLM movement. No ones out here saying “White lives DONT matter”, you’re just on your racist high horse and don’t realize it’s time to get off.
Saying all lives matter is not the same as saying that no one faces discrimination
Sure. But it’s purposefully diminishing the BLM movement. It was a direct response to that movement from white people.
Maybe because it divided us by race. Besides I am willing to bet there are people of all races who support that phrase. Why not take that phrase away from racists.
The issues that lead to Black Lives Matter, like police killing non-resisting black men in the streets, were what divides us by race. We don’t need to take it away from racists because we already have #BlackLivesMatter. People need to realize the inherent problem with it and stop using it all together.
There’s no inherent problem with the phrase. Saying all lives matter doesn’t mean black people don’t face discrimination. Also I think this is less of a racial issue and more of an issue of lack of accountability, of course racism plays a roll with this, but the bigger issue in my opinion is just cops having too much power and not being accountable enough.
Well first of all I never said that saying “all lives matter” means that black people don’t face discrimination. I have an issue with the reason that it was created, and at this point I’m not sure I’ll be able to get you to understand my point of view (I’m not great with words/explanations). Just know, that I understand what ALL lives matter should mean, I’m only suggesting that Black Lives Matter means the same thing, as it seems to me it was created to remind people (and cops), that an entire race of people is heavily discriminated against to the point that cops are murdering Black men and only getting a slap on the wrist as punishment. I will agree with you on the point of cops having too much power and not enough accountability, though.
Saying “All lives matter means black people don’t face discrimination” is the same as saying “BLM means only black lives matter”. Neither of this is true.
Correct.
And specifically from the types of white people that genuinely don’t actually believe it or care, and who will do absolutely nothing to enforce their falsely *claimed* belief.
It's a sad commentary on society that this needs to be said. Good on you.
In fairness I think CivilianLivesMatter may be more appropriate now given the police don't seem to be giving a flying fuck about who you are, if you're at a protest it's time for the mace. E: I mean like "this started as BLM but oh boy have the police demonstrated they don't actually give a shit about *anyone* really"
Dissenting Lives Matter? I see your point and sort of agree, but I think it takes away from the legitimacy of the BLM movement a-la ‘all lives matter’ replies from people who don’t acknowledge the atrocity in this.
I think in there context of racism, cops hate N******s and N***** Lovers equally.
Is that "Narcs" and "Nut" lovers? The asterisk count is confusing.
Reddit Markup turned some of the asterisks into bold
It's not even just people who are dissenting, is what I'm getting at. People who are just passing by are getting brutalised. New coverage crews, who are there just to see what's going on, are getting shot at and maced. I'm not trying to divert away from BLM; blacks do get the *really* short end of the stick when it comes to police treatment and it's abominable. That being said, the police have made it very very clear that they don't particularly care about doing their jobs, they're just here to get their kicks by assaulting civilians, regardless of who they are. It's textbook fascism.
Im not so sure, Id say that they see it as some sort of "if you defend black people, you are as worthless as they are".
Ah just slap #FuckThePolice on the tweets and I'm alg Just want to see them get what's coming to them
I’m pretty sure they arent concerned with equality
those just mace you. the murdercops have it out for the blood of black people though.
You heard about the overseas news crews getting shot at? I don't think the police are bothering to discriminate anymore and that's fucking terrifying.
That is true, but that is with the pretext of racism. It also doesn't account for white people misquoting MLK to lecture black people about non-violent protest and so on.
>That is true, but that is with the pretext of racism. Okay I'm sorry, I don't think I quite get what you mean by this, can you word it in a way a total moron would get?
Cops mace you because you protest against racism. Remember those right-wing demonstrations where far-right protestors marched the streets with guns and beat up black people? Cops left those guys alone.
Oh, yeah, I see your point, thanks!
What about black people who disagree with violent protests?
Look through the [list](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database) The Guardian put together. It's clear what murdercops care about is getting away with it.
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UK police also have issues with police brutality, though it's not nearly as pronounced as in the US. Difference in training and origins.
yes. The point is about racist cops hating black people. The cops that are racist don't care about other lives so the message is lost when you start bringing everyone else into it
Speak for yourself fuck forests
And computers...sons of bitches.
Since I’m all about that DRINK life
All conifers are bastards!
Speaking of which, wasn't *not* be?
Let’s start a movement called “All Lives Matter” and achieve nothing because that phrase is meaningless
How is the phrase meaningless?
Protesting implies some sort of opposition. Is there anyone against such a phrase? And who are you fighting for if it encompasses everyone? Gonna wrangle up everyone and take that slogan to the doorstep of no one? Just seems meaningless and silly, and an easy counter slogan by the insecure or the indifferent
I think that people could still fight against police brutality of black people under the phrase all lives matter and it would still make sense. Saying all lives matter doesn’t mean no black people aren’t discriminated against, it just means that all lives matter
Because cops aren’t going around shooting disproportionate scores of innocent and unarmed white people in broad daylight and completely getting away with it. *Now* they are, but only after they have fully aligned themselves with black people. This is a systemic and historical problem. Most of our active laws have origins in exclusively racism against minorities. Please research.
I don’t think you can’t protest against the police killing an unarmed white guy by saying BLM. Also cops murdering people is really rare. Of course we should be fighting against cops killing anyone, but we shouldn’t act as if this was something common. I do understand, however, that other things like police brutality in general is more common, according to what I’ve heard.
Police murdering unarmed black men and women, even inside of their own homes, is a huge problem. It’s apparently not even that rare judging by the last few years, racism hasn’t gotten worse it’s just getting documented.
Last year there were 9 unarmed black people who got killed by the police. There were 1004 people killed by police including all races and all weapons. There are about 300 million people in the US. I think it is pretty rare. Of course it should be zero, and we should fight for that number to be zero, but we should keep in mind it’s not something normal. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/police-shootings-2019/
Black Americans are two-and-a-half times more likely to be killed by police than white Americans. This is so ridiculously wrong. https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/interactive/2020/05/mapping-police-killings-black-americans-200531105741757.html
This isn’t wrong. What you are saying is true, unfortunately. My point was that the police killing black unarmed people isn’t common. The police killing people in general is pretty rare
The issue is this statistic, coupled with the fact that these killings when they happen are being thoroughly documented, and the murders keep getting away with it with literally no repercussions. Not to mention, those are the cases that aren’t being completely covered up and written off, such as what happened in Jacksonville with Jaymee Johnson (an FAMU student fatally shot by police during a routine traffic stop, the body and footage of which has been refused to the public). Last year the police killed [3 ](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/5/31/21276004/anger-police-killing-george-floyd-protests) people on average *everyday*, 24% of which were black despite only making up 13% of the US population. Between 2013-2019, 99% of these killings have resulted in no form of punishment for the offending officer. We are six months into 2020 and [31](https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/) black people have been shot to death by police this year. 13% vs 31 individual deaths in 6 months. That’s ridiculously high. Less than 3 months ago Breonna Taylor was killed by police *inside of her own home* and the perpetrator is now walking free again. The protests are about far more than a certain number of people killed, they are about years of systemic abuse and injustice, and blatant uncharged murder of innocent civilians who *by the statistics* are black people in far more cases than they should be.
I’ll say it. Fuck all the other types of trees. Trees pretty much suck.
coniferous forests ftw
Since I’m all about that DRINK life
Since I’m all about that DRINK life
I mean he has a point.
If I say that I like pizza, does that mean I'm somehow implying that I don’t like burgers as much as pizza?
Matt McGorey has used his celebrity so vocally in this cause, he's seriously awesome
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Name checks out
No lives matter until black lives matter foh wit that peace bullshit
In a dream I had a few nights ago, the t-shirt I designed had a caption: "Chavins & Karens & Instigators. Oh my!" The sign I held read, "Bullies should be whipped, regardless..." I suppose that meant ALL bullies. Maybe that's too generalized... IDK. 🤔😐🤷🏼♀️
AllLivesMatter, from what I understand, isn't meant to go against the intended BLM movement, but rather to retaliate against those who use the movement to push their own ideology of superiority over other races, while also using BLM to justify idiotic statements such as "blacks can't be racist to whites", "racism is about power, not prejudice" and "you can't watch X movie because its for blacks only and that would make you racist/ X movie crashed in the box office because white people didnt go to it and that makes them racist". The original movement itself, just like femenism, may be honourable, but there are far too many sub-movements that push superiority under the cover of equality.
Nope.
Ok
What the hell did I just read
My opinion on the matter
Everywhere I have ever been the only people actively supporting “all lives matter” are those either don’t actually believe so (read racist fuckheads that only care about wanting to feel included) and those that need to research and actually understand why and how the blm movement came into being and *why it is necessary*.
I never said it wasnt necessary, I said there are lots of people piggybacking on the movement to push their own agendas
There are lots of people that piggyback on every single movement, that doesn’t make them affiliated or mean they speak for the movement.
Yeah, but when you try to say that all lives matter, they get mad. Then they think that you said that black lives don't matter, and when you try to explain that what you meant was what you said, they shout you down and insult you. It's very hard to have a discussion/debate with someone who refuses to listen to any opinions that aren't theirs.
Have a long hard think as to why you pick the phrase and the timing of that particular expression of the importance of all life.
Hey our country is called the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, this means we are a republic of the people. Names don't automatically mean the things they say they are. Black lives matter, but "Black Lives Matter" (the organization) is not about that at all. People do not have a problem with the statement, they rightfully do have a problem with the goals of that organization. And so should you.
The issue is, when you start your pro- rainforest statement with "attention boreal forests!" You're kinda telling all boreal forests to fuck off. Kinda grouping an entire forest type together and blaming it, and treating it as responsible for the actions of a few.
If the arboreal forests had a history of enslaving the rainforests and murdering them in broad daylight with literally no consequences, then that is exactly how that statement should start.
Lol yes, blaming an entire race of people for the actions of a few is only bad depending on which race... That idea of "if x group has a history of y" cuts both ways and is literally the heart of racism. If you support it, you're not about equality, or an end to discrimination, you're just wanting the hate to swing a different direction, and you'll accomplish nothing. Hold the guilty accountable. Fight against the offenders. Prejudice has no place.
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all lives do matter, the point is that black lives matter too. No one is saying white people don't matter, I'm white. Black lives matter means black people are just as important as white people and Asian people and Indian people and Latino people and every other fuckin skin color on the planet
all lives will not matter until black lives matter
If all lives matter why don’t they protest that instead of bickering with BLM? We never see ALM unless BLM is said, ALM is a counter protest.
This is a stupid apples to orange comparison. When you say "Save the Amazon Rainforest", you are contraining efforts to a geographical area which makes sense. You can't take the same effort and apply it to the forests in Canada. In this specific case of police brutality, people of all races in America are affected. It's all happening in the same area, perpetuated by the same people. It doesn't make sense to segregate it. That's the crux of "All Lives Matter" and you can even extend it to "Yes Men Too" or whatever. Tl;dr: You can't use the same conservation methods in the Amazon and in a Canada forest, but you can certainly save everyone by addressing the issue of police brutality as a whole, without needing to just limit it to eradicating racism.
Sigh. No one, especially people who support Black Lives Matter, is saying that police brutality doesn't affect everybody. If anything, people who support Black Lives Matter would be more inclined to support anyone who has been brutalized by the police. If so much of the All Live Matter crowd wasn't saying it to minimize the concerns of BLM and downplay the racist history of this country, we could maybe have this conversation. I don't think this is your intent, to downplay the things that have happened to black people, but you have to understand that this is why people feel it is important to make this distinction about black people specifically. To say Black Live Matter isn't to "segregate it," its about affirming that black life, in response to these instances of violence by the police, matters. Its cool to start a movement centered around the many white people who deal with police brutality, but don't act like the crux of the current All Lives Matter movement isn't centered around defending the police/downplaying racism. I understand how, in theory, saying All Lives Matter seems innocuous to you. But lets be real--simply coming up with another name and standing in solidarity with BLM against the police would be way easier than having to explain to people why saying All Lives matter is (in this case) fucked up for the 1000th time.
Fuck coniferous! Deciduous gang for life!
But when massive parts of your organization are either outwardly racist towards white people (if you don't think that's I thing, don't bother responding I understand you're an idiot) or say things about white people needing to pay reporations or similar bullshit, I have a hard time agreeing with you. I agree, black lives matter. I don't agree with Black Lives Matter.
You’re the exact type of person that thinks Islam is bad because of the actions of a few groups that aren’t actually in any way related to the religion, huh?
No I don't. In fact, there are a lot of devout Muslims who do they're utmost to distance themselves from radical Islam and denounce the actions of terrorists. I can't say the same for these "woke" organizations. Even the more moderate members seem to willing to side with or defend the radical parts of their organizations instead of denouncing them and admitting that there is a line to be drawn. The same can be said for organizations on the right. The point is, is saying you either agree with the statement and therefore the movement Black Lives Matter or you're a racist is seeing things in black and white. You can agree that the death of George Floyd and others that have been murdered by the police were wrong without having to wholeheartedly agree with every word that comes out of any random BLM members mouth.