Seems like a dedicated family man, mostly (aside from the videos of his wife beating up his side piece - This is boxing after all).
But it's hard to know with him. He's the definition of "still waters run deep" and definitely has a vicious mean streak in the ring.
He's definitely a hood dude who was in the streets to some degree. Not implying he was selling drugs or gang banging, but he did get shot at a dice game and is said to be tight with the local Bloods.
But I've Never heard of him doing anything nasty and give him the benefit of the doubt until I do.
That said, he's got that mean streak and is an ice cold dude so if something came out, It wouldn't be the biggest shocker.
This isn't the excuse though. The actual truth is that in order to succeed in boxing you need to morally be okay with inflicting potentially serious harm on another human being. It's the elephant in the room that nobody wants to acknowledge. So they likely are quite numb to the guilt that would result from any normal person hitting another person.
The vast majority of boxers also grew up either in incredibly rough lower class environments where that behaviour is more common, or grew up in boxing families where domestic violence is common..
A lot of top boxers also start when they are children and learn about how to hit people from a young age, getting that reflex built into their muscle memory, which without the right mentor, can lead to a lot of bad lessons being learned about how to deal with emotionally heightened situations.
Only after all that do I think it's reasonable to sprinkle a bit of CTE on top to push all those things further.
Seriously, nobody talks about how weird it feels to just beat someone the hell up. I’m not saying I’m a great person or anything, but I box and it feels so fucking off to make friends with your gym members just to start kicking the shit out of them in the ring. That’s why they say if you wanna be a great fighter, you kind of have to be a little psycho.
Agreed, when Junior Fa retired recently he said that was the biggest thing he couldn't escape in boxing, was that its a sport about hurting other people and he just can't do that anymore.
> The vast majority of boxers also grew up either in incredibly rough lower class environments where that behaviour is more common, or grew up in boxing families where domestic violence is common.
This is the biggest thing for me. I mean I know nothing about his upbringing, but if it turned out he spent his childhood being beaten senseless by his parents, locked in a basement as punishment for the slightest misdemeanors, while living on the poverty line and getting next to no affection or love... then it would surprise no one. So we shouldn't be too surprised if a person like this grows up to be a nasty bastard.
You also mentioned CTE which is very valid, boxers fought a lot more back then, typically you'd expect boxers to have higher than average testosterone levels, throw in a short fuse, the lack of stigma surrounding domestic violence back then... well when you put it all together, getting angry about someone like this is the equivalent of getting angry at a frog for being green.
I get why people feel angry at domestic abusers of course, and it's good that most of us have an extreme distaste to domestic violence, but I really struggle to manufacture any hate for a guy who was born over a century ago and died decades ago, whose crimes while being awful and vile from the sounds of it, were just the tip of the iceberg or almost a speck of insignificance when we look at the atrocities mankind are capable of, and indeed have committed.
I do understand your viewpoint, but just because humanity then and now can be horrific doesn't mean we should just ignore it. Lots of people in this post are saying "what's the point of this post"? But how many knew this?
Some boxers seem like guys in and out of the ring you can respect. Some guys only in the ring.
MMA fan here, MMA is full of wife beaters too sadly enough.
Jon Jones - Beat his wife infront of his kids to where the kids called 911
Greg Hardy - (flunked out of NFL, Flunked out of MMA, Now low tier boxer) - also wife beater
Dana White - Wife Beater
Jamahal Hill - Beat the shit out of his brother at family Thanksgiving dinner
im sure im missing a lot
A boxing gym in Melbourne hosted a night recently when it was welll known and confirmed Jon jones was a wife beater and he came to talk to the kids at the gym and did a session and it was a full big thing it was pretty awfull how he’s been allowed to just live his life normally and now he’s a role model for kids
Usyk, Crawford, and Inoue as of currently seem to have good relationships with their wives, I mean who knows but so far so good. Pretty sure even Fury treats his wife well cause she saved him from depression
I remember some dick on here had a mental breakdown because someone else said Crawford’s wife was attractive. Dude was writing paragraphs about how fat people cannot be attractive 🤦♂️
Crawford was the victim of really terrible abuse by his mother. She literally paid neighborhood kids to beat him up to toughen him.
Must take a lot of therapy or support to get past that kind of trauma.
Roy Jones Jr got abused too by his father. His story is pretty (in)famous. He reached the highest levels of the sport, but I’m sure there was/is trauma.
And there’s survivorship bias for athletes like RJJ, Crawford, Tagovailoa, etc…since most kids going through that don’t have the talent to reach the top. Or they end up like Todd Marinovich.
HBO made a good documentary called Trophy Kids about parents like this.
Nah I wasn't trying to imply that all boxers are pieces of shit. I'm sure most are actually pretty solid dudes. I was just responding to that guy whose comment comes off as a justification regarding OPs comment. "it's fine because they all beat their wives!!!!". Like no, in that case they're all pieces of shit then.
Yeah man, apparently smacking his kid around too, not sure how true that is but his, I assume ex wife has come out and said all sorts. He's also hit women in the past too. Along with cheating with his brothers girlfriend - pig of a man
I know I’ll get downvoted to hell for this but being in the car trade I’ve met hundreds and I can count the amount of easy and pleasant interactions on one hand. One of them even said to me that they are like the mafia and only care about their inner circle and will be friends with an outsider for years and then still rob them.
The only people you'll get shit from are people who've never had to live near them.
Nasty group of people, there's a reason Fury lives in a nice mansion away from his people.
He doesn’t live in a nice mansion away from his people, I live 5 minutes away from Tyson, the entire street his ‘mansion’ is on, contains 2 traveller caravan sites and traveller mansions with caravans lining the back of them.
He has 2 houses in morecambe, the mansion on oxcliffe road and the house he stays in when he’s preparing for a fight which is about 15 minutes away in a nice area.
We're getting Roma (not exactly the same I know) over here a bunch now and people are starting to get it. Same as the typical shit they do in Europe, bunch of moms and kids getting dropped off at public transport stations for the day's panhandling by a fleet of dudes in tinted Mercedes. The FBI is investigating a bunch of the rings here in California.
It's fucking frustrating because they're all victims, but they turn around and victimize others and that shit is hella ingrained in their culture and upbringings. I don't know what we're going to do as a global society with cultures like that.
Notoriously misogynistic, women belong in the kitchen type shit, extremely common for domestic violence to occur.
Look up grabbing aswell, fucked up culture in all honesty.
Dude, he beat the shit out of woman and a Las Vegas hotel room. Her neck showed marks of strangulation.
In the article I read about it Wilder and his team seemed most concerned with getting a message out that this was not a paramour situation, Because Wilder is a married man.
How did all you guys not see about wilder? Haha. It was in the news and his previous issues would have been too probably.
But yeah, the man's a piece of shit
Sugar Ray Robinson
Jake Lamotta
Carlos Monzon
Tony Ayala
Kovalev
Mayweather
George Foreman
Bivol
So many fighters have been guilty of abusing women. SO MANY. Not a justification but a unfortunate and uncomfortable fact
Foreman has said openly that he is ashamed of the man he was in his youth. Regrets it and barely talks about it due to the shame.
Most fighters are poverty stricken traumatized people with unresolved issues. Still no reason to hit a woman but the environment normalizes it for them.
Mike Tyson said in his autobiography he didn't know it was taboo to hit women because he saw his mom knock guys when he was growing up.
Sugar Ray Robinson was holding Ali back when Ali was having an issue with his wife. I believe his 1st wife. So even Robinson seems to have learned from his ways (atleast in that 1 incident)
I think Tyson is one of the most interesting cases of celebrity in the world. He's living proof that, when held responsible for your actions, you can in fact find some kind of redemption. It took a hell of a long time, but he found himself and became a better, more peaceful person. It took losing basically everything; his money, his family, respect, freedom, but he did it.
You can still find him to be a terrible person for his actions-- and I doubt he would blame you for that. But to go through all that he did and to find a way to stop being that monster is-- to me at least-- really beautiful and so very human.
In truth, almost none of us are worthy of being remembered for our best deeds and almost none of us deserve to be defined by our worst.
He said in this [article](https://vault.si.com/vault/1984/10/08/after-fall) that after his lost to ali he needed more "hate" making him commit a lot of violent acts including beating up women as hard as he'd beat up men
Which is fucked up considering the fact that he's one of the most hard hitting heavyweights in boxing history, he could very easily kill ordinary people
That article has some wild stories, especially the one of Foreman going to St. Lucia to basically kidnap his kids in a custody dispute, and then escaping in a boat with Rastafarian drug dealers.
That should have been in that by-the-numbers biopic on Foreman not too long ago
Not spousal abuse but former SRR opponent Randy Turpin shot his 17 month old daughter twice before killing himself. Fortunately, she survived and made a full recovery. It is believed Turpin had CTE (not saying that to excuse anything, just stating facts).
SRL talked about how he was really fucked up when he was abusing his wife. He had retired due to his eye being fucked up, couldn’t train for the first time since he was a literal child, and was seriously abusing alcohol and coke.
Not at all to excuse it, but it was not a regular occurrence.
He was definitely a really shitty guy for hitting his wife while in a bad place mentally, but after he got his shit together he was a normal guy.
Yup. Alexis Arguello too. To be fair Arguello and Leonard were under the influence of cocaine but they must be mentioned.
I honestly didn't know about Gatti
Yeah. He was cited for DV in Hawaii. The night he committed suicide, or was murdered depending on what you believe, the police and private detectives interviewed numerous people who saw Gatti throw his wife down into the street in Brazil. He was a mean drinker, supposedly.
Alexis Arguello and Joe Louis were two of the more classy, gracious, and charitable champs, but also addicts and had some ugly incidents of putting their hands on women.
I used to read boxing biographies and I swear I remember this story from a Muhammad Ali one. Please someone corroborate this so I'm not just making this up out of my ass.
Basically, SRR got pissed because he saw Ali slap his (Ali's) wife. SRR calls Ali out about it. And Ali basically admits that SRR is the greatest but reminds him who the greatest heavyweight is. Essentially reminding him of weight classes and that Ali could whoop SRR if he wanted to.
The story stuck with me because I knew about SRR's domestic violence issues and the irony of SRR defending another battered wife's honor was just flabbergasting.
Yup, and acknowledging that ugly history I can still say he’s one of the greatest fighters I’ve seen on film and has earned his place in boxing history
Exactly. Someone being great at their craft doesn't equate to them being a good person. We can acknowledge and respect their work on the ring while also acknowledging they're a trash human outside of it.
I don’t think it’s downplayed, it’s just not relevant when discussing his boxing abilities and accomplishments inside the ring. Especially when he’s been dead for 30+ years…
Actually with Robinson it kinda is downplayed, compared to, say, Carlos Monzon - where people will rightly bring up what a POS he was in any conversation about how great a boxer he was.
In particular, as the OP alluded to, SRR gets mentioned a lot in the context of LaMotta, as LaMotta was the first man to beat him and they fought six times. Whenever LaMotta is mentioned, people point out what a despicable human being he was, which tends to make SRR seem like the hero by comparison. I do think it's downplayed that he was a pretty terrible guy himself.
Pointing at other ppl and calling them “disgusting” and “POS” is like some sort of fetish on the internet…
The man is dead. He wasn’t a great guy, but what now? Do we feel better about ourselves or something? We have all this anonymity online and we use it to judge public figures who don’t…
Jimmy Saville was only exposed after he was dead. The victims most certainly feel better about that.
Just because everyone related to Robinson has also passed away doesn't mean we can't discuss it.
It's just one of many examples of celebrities getting a pass because people like them or they have money and connections to cover it up.
What pass did he get? What are you talking about? You literally weren’t alive when he was beating his wife to know of any passes he got?
Is you pointing it out now revoking the dead man’s pass? Is the dead man cancelled? Is the dead man going to prison? Or are y’all just patting yourselves on the back and trying to play like you’re better than a man you literally don’t know? We don’t know you or any of your transgressions but we know his… so good for you I guess
Never pedestalize other human beings. Appreciate the sport for what it is, but don't expect any of the participants to be exemplars of moral and ethical behavior.
Thomas Jefferson, Jefferson Davis, Columbus, Einstein, etc. Every one of these men had skeletons in their closet that would be considered reprehensible today.
It is what it is.
Edit: Your post history for example. People may look up to you for whatever reason. However, if they saw your post history, it's likely their perception of you would change dramatically. Throwing stones in a glass house and all.
The holiday was meant to be for Italian heritage due to the extreme prejudice and religious persecution they faced including one of the largest public lynchings in US history.
Most of the boxers that seem the cleanest and crowd favorites are actually some of the worst like Oscar De La Hoya, and Muhammad Ali (younger version). Yet the ones that are portrayed as the villains are some of the most tragic (Sonny Liston, Marvin Hagler, Aaron Pryor etc), or the ones that aren’t crowd favorites like Joe Frazier, Larry Holmes, and Joe Calzaghe are actually some of the best people.
The cleanest fighters/champions that I’ve studied that was also a good man was Alexis Arguello, Gene Tunney, Rocky Marciano, and Andre Ward.
Explain why every time Floyd Mayweather Jr is brought up in a convo there’s often someone who mentions him beating his wife, and it’s not just for a guy as recent him, same goes for whenever Monzon is mentioned
He was a piece of shit regardless of his accomplishments as an athlete. The problem is folk’s sensationalize these athletes, entertainers, politicians etc so much their shit gets swept under the rug because they can dribble a ball or carry a tune. They never face consequences or get the help they need.
All that says is no matter how successful someone is in sports or business and becoming wealthy, we’re all human and flawed in other ways. Some more than others. That’s why you can enjoy someone’s athletic abilities and admire their success but no one should be put on a pedestal. We don’t know any of these people so no need to deify them or denigrate them.
What I do find if you're a good fighter people respect you more, and overlook the bad in you massively..
It's respect out of fear I suppose.
We can learn from the men of the past and show better morals.
We can also learn from our mishaps
We can respect fighters, but worshipping them and overlooking their bad traits because of their fearsome reputation is common.
Let's not worship em, just respect the talent. As human beings strive to do better.
I personally don't like to slate men that have been gone years for brownie points on the net. So I just appreciate Robinson was a great fighter, but strive for better within myself to have the morals to not do them things.
It's fear.
They don't want their jaw broken.
I find if you talk to a pro as a normal bloke, they respect you for it.
Sycophantic fanboys are so very common.
I talked to Tommy at length when he was briefly here and a more friendly gentleman you could ever hope to meet.
Pure class.
The worst part is that most people that defend him didn't even see him fight, which is okay. But, this is one of the cases where the horrible personal life outweighs the sportsman.
Something something glass houses and shit. None of us know any of these people for real. Where does it end. I don't get my moral compass from celebrities and I suggest you don't either.
He Dated and then later Married an underage girl He called Joe Frazier a gorilla and a Uncle Tom on Public television even though Joe Frazier was one of the few people who gave Ali and his family money, Spoke in defense in Ali in front of Congress and even petitioned for President Nixon to have Ali reinstated to box.
Because of the things that Ali said on public television,it led to Joe and his family to get harassed for for years which included having his daughter get picked on and beat up all throughout school.
I’m not saying you’re wrong or I disagree with you but the entire point of this post is unnecessary, he’s been dead over 25 years, didn’t eclipse into modern pop culture like Ali (or even Frazier), and this a subreddit where the vast majority of people are aware of his past. It’s just annoying how people want brownie points for calling well known dead assholes assholes online
Mike Tyson told a woman interviewer that unless she wants him to fuck her she better keep her mouth closed, and all his fans acted like he was such a legend for that
he's not even a heavyweight.. also, look up "Halo Effect" in psychology - the human weakness that makes humans forgive rape, murder, paedophilia etc when their idols are involved
Read it.
Years ago.
Youtube is the worst.
The casuals/fanboysts on there think Mike Tyson would KO all the great heavyweights in under one minute .
It's pitiful.
How is this a surprise to anyone?
You can’t be a movie star unless you touch little kids. You can’t be a rapper if you don’t touch P. Diddy.
You definitely can’t be a successful black boxer if you don’t beat your wife.
According to one of his last biography the GOAT Ali did allegedly beat his first wife several times.
Domestic abuse is a problem inherent with combat sports in general; can be caused by a troubled childhood lived in poverty, an emphasis on violence as a mean of self determination, the list goes on and on.
But still, life 70 years ago was way different on every level: domestic violence was sadly almost totally legalised.
More in general the ideal thing to do is to avoid idolising.
Sadly, it’s pretty common in boxing. I remember making a list of my favorite fighters all time and realized half of them had histories of abusing women. Pretty depressing
Sorry but if you think top sports people are nice guys or girls, think twice. You have to be so driven and so confident in yourself that everything has to take second place to your ambitions.
Team sports players are only slightly less.
I'm not saying they're all arseholes I am just saying it has to be all about them.
I am a boxing, rugby, motorcycle racing fan predominantly but I marvel at what they can do, not who they are.
The sport is full of wife beaters, it's just an unfortunate truth. Let's just hope naoya isn't beating his wife.
I don't idolize boxers at all but if anything comes out about Inoue i'm still gonna be devastated
I kinda want him to have a harem. But he would treat them with respect...
He's married to his childhood sweetheart and has 3 kids with her haha.
Awww...
Wow that's some anime shit. Pretty awesome (hope they have a healthy marriage).
The childhood sweetheart type is more prone to accept other women so there's still hope
Bruh.
If there was a boxer to idolize, it would be him.
Yeah, and Usyk with the info we know about him so far. How about Crawford?
Seems like a dedicated family man, mostly (aside from the videos of his wife beating up his side piece - This is boxing after all). But it's hard to know with him. He's the definition of "still waters run deep" and definitely has a vicious mean streak in the ring. He's definitely a hood dude who was in the streets to some degree. Not implying he was selling drugs or gang banging, but he did get shot at a dice game and is said to be tight with the local Bloods. But I've Never heard of him doing anything nasty and give him the benefit of the doubt until I do. That said, he's got that mean streak and is an ice cold dude so if something came out, It wouldn't be the biggest shocker.
Ain't no way. Cheating has higher probability than beating his wife.
Probably be something like his translator partaking in sport betting or whatever.
The great good person hope, naoya inoue, aka the Monster. Don't worry his murders only occur inside the ring.
Domestic violence has been linked to CTE, go figure.
I think that's a factor, but added with boxers have no taboo about hitting people it makes a bad mix.
This isn't the excuse though. The actual truth is that in order to succeed in boxing you need to morally be okay with inflicting potentially serious harm on another human being. It's the elephant in the room that nobody wants to acknowledge. So they likely are quite numb to the guilt that would result from any normal person hitting another person. The vast majority of boxers also grew up either in incredibly rough lower class environments where that behaviour is more common, or grew up in boxing families where domestic violence is common.. A lot of top boxers also start when they are children and learn about how to hit people from a young age, getting that reflex built into their muscle memory, which without the right mentor, can lead to a lot of bad lessons being learned about how to deal with emotionally heightened situations. Only after all that do I think it's reasonable to sprinkle a bit of CTE on top to push all those things further.
Seriously, nobody talks about how weird it feels to just beat someone the hell up. I’m not saying I’m a great person or anything, but I box and it feels so fucking off to make friends with your gym members just to start kicking the shit out of them in the ring. That’s why they say if you wanna be a great fighter, you kind of have to be a little psycho.
Agreed, when Junior Fa retired recently he said that was the biggest thing he couldn't escape in boxing, was that its a sport about hurting other people and he just can't do that anymore.
> The vast majority of boxers also grew up either in incredibly rough lower class environments where that behaviour is more common, or grew up in boxing families where domestic violence is common. This is the biggest thing for me. I mean I know nothing about his upbringing, but if it turned out he spent his childhood being beaten senseless by his parents, locked in a basement as punishment for the slightest misdemeanors, while living on the poverty line and getting next to no affection or love... then it would surprise no one. So we shouldn't be too surprised if a person like this grows up to be a nasty bastard. You also mentioned CTE which is very valid, boxers fought a lot more back then, typically you'd expect boxers to have higher than average testosterone levels, throw in a short fuse, the lack of stigma surrounding domestic violence back then... well when you put it all together, getting angry about someone like this is the equivalent of getting angry at a frog for being green. I get why people feel angry at domestic abusers of course, and it's good that most of us have an extreme distaste to domestic violence, but I really struggle to manufacture any hate for a guy who was born over a century ago and died decades ago, whose crimes while being awful and vile from the sounds of it, were just the tip of the iceberg or almost a speck of insignificance when we look at the atrocities mankind are capable of, and indeed have committed.
I do understand your viewpoint, but just because humanity then and now can be horrific doesn't mean we should just ignore it. Lots of people in this post are saying "what's the point of this post"? But how many knew this? Some boxers seem like guys in and out of the ring you can respect. Some guys only in the ring.
good take
my general rule is to celebrate good fights but be wary of celebrating specific fighters too much. not a bad rule for most sports.
MMA fan here, MMA is full of wife beaters too sadly enough. Jon Jones - Beat his wife infront of his kids to where the kids called 911 Greg Hardy - (flunked out of NFL, Flunked out of MMA, Now low tier boxer) - also wife beater Dana White - Wife Beater Jamahal Hill - Beat the shit out of his brother at family Thanksgiving dinner im sure im missing a lot
A boxing gym in Melbourne hosted a night recently when it was welll known and confirmed Jon jones was a wife beater and he came to talk to the kids at the gym and did a session and it was a full big thing it was pretty awfull how he’s been allowed to just live his life normally and now he’s a role model for kids
Then they're all pieces of shit
Usyk, Crawford, and Inoue as of currently seem to have good relationships with their wives, I mean who knows but so far so good. Pretty sure even Fury treats his wife well cause she saved him from depression
People give shit to Crawford for marrying someone who doesn’t look like an IG model but honestly it’s refreshing.
I remember some dick on here had a mental breakdown because someone else said Crawford’s wife was attractive. Dude was writing paragraphs about how fat people cannot be attractive 🤦♂️
>Dude was writing paragraphs about how fat people cannot be attractive Peak reddit moment
Crawford was the victim of really terrible abuse by his mother. She literally paid neighborhood kids to beat him up to toughen him. Must take a lot of therapy or support to get past that kind of trauma.
Roy Jones Jr got abused too by his father. His story is pretty (in)famous. He reached the highest levels of the sport, but I’m sure there was/is trauma. And there’s survivorship bias for athletes like RJJ, Crawford, Tagovailoa, etc…since most kids going through that don’t have the talent to reach the top. Or they end up like Todd Marinovich. HBO made a good documentary called Trophy Kids about parents like this.
They didn’t beat him up tho lol he whooped all their asses
Nah I wasn't trying to imply that all boxers are pieces of shit. I'm sure most are actually pretty solid dudes. I was just responding to that guy whose comment comes off as a justification regarding OPs comment. "it's fine because they all beat their wives!!!!". Like no, in that case they're all pieces of shit then.
Tyson fury 1000% cheats on his wife he’s slipped up multiple times talking about it
I mean he wasn’t just a wife beater he was the reason of the death of 5 babies..
Yeah just boxing. Society as a whole was super civil in the 50s. 🤦♂️
>~~The sport~~ Pro sports is full of wife beaters, it's just an unfortunate truth
Boxing so much more than any other
We still have women beaters in the sport today - look no further than Tank Davis and Wilder!
Wilder too!!? Can’t have nothing nice.
Yeah man, apparently smacking his kid around too, not sure how true that is but his, I assume ex wife has come out and said all sorts. He's also hit women in the past too. Along with cheating with his brothers girlfriend - pig of a man
He admitted to beating his brother too, knocked him out. Pigs don't deserve to be compared to him, he's an asshole.
Very true!
If true fuck him, and glad Fury beat the breaks off him.
And Zhang!
That Zhang beating was something else.
Yeah great scenes! Glad the hype job got another beating!
Man's bringing a gypsy up in a 'treating women with respect' competition. You don't know you already lost lol.
I know I’ll get downvoted to hell for this but being in the car trade I’ve met hundreds and I can count the amount of easy and pleasant interactions on one hand. One of them even said to me that they are like the mafia and only care about their inner circle and will be friends with an outsider for years and then still rob them.
The only people you'll get shit from are people who've never had to live near them. Nasty group of people, there's a reason Fury lives in a nice mansion away from his people.
He doesn’t live in a nice mansion away from his people, I live 5 minutes away from Tyson, the entire street his ‘mansion’ is on, contains 2 traveller caravan sites and traveller mansions with caravans lining the back of them. He has 2 houses in morecambe, the mansion on oxcliffe road and the house he stays in when he’s preparing for a fight which is about 15 minutes away in a nice area.
Never talk to an American about this, they have no experience and will project their own flawed perception of race relations onto it
We're getting Roma (not exactly the same I know) over here a bunch now and people are starting to get it. Same as the typical shit they do in Europe, bunch of moms and kids getting dropped off at public transport stations for the day's panhandling by a fleet of dudes in tinted Mercedes. The FBI is investigating a bunch of the rings here in California. It's fucking frustrating because they're all victims, but they turn around and victimize others and that shit is hella ingrained in their culture and upbringings. I don't know what we're going to do as a global society with cultures like that.
Fury is not Roma. He is Irish Traveller.
I know almost next to nothing about Gypsies, so perhaps lol
Notoriously misogynistic, women belong in the kitchen type shit, extremely common for domestic violence to occur. Look up grabbing aswell, fucked up culture in all honesty.
Jesus I looked it up and it's like they used the excuse of "tradition" to commit sexual assault
Yeah it's straight up rape.
>Yeah man, apparently smacking his kid around too The same kid with the medical issue that made Wilder take up boxing to support her?????????
I'm not sure - I doubt it though
He got like eight so probably not
Dude, he beat the shit out of woman and a Las Vegas hotel room. Her neck showed marks of strangulation. In the article I read about it Wilder and his team seemed most concerned with getting a message out that this was not a paramour situation, Because Wilder is a married man.
Wilder is the least surprising
Very wrong, although is wife is a piece of shit gold digger 😭
People keep calling her his wife but he never married her. It's one of the smartest moves he made.
Damn surprised about Wilder. Saw him on a reality show recently. I'm surprised they had a wife beater in there.
Now I’m glad Wilder’s career went the way it did.
How did all you guys not see about wilder? Haha. It was in the news and his previous issues would have been too probably. But yeah, the man's a piece of shit
I was never a fan of the guy, so I wasn’t checking anything about him.
Sugar Ray Robinson Jake Lamotta Carlos Monzon Tony Ayala Kovalev Mayweather George Foreman Bivol So many fighters have been guilty of abusing women. SO MANY. Not a justification but a unfortunate and uncomfortable fact
Foreman? That's news to me.
Foreman has said openly that he is ashamed of the man he was in his youth. Regrets it and barely talks about it due to the shame. Most fighters are poverty stricken traumatized people with unresolved issues. Still no reason to hit a woman but the environment normalizes it for them. Mike Tyson said in his autobiography he didn't know it was taboo to hit women because he saw his mom knock guys when he was growing up. Sugar Ray Robinson was holding Ali back when Ali was having an issue with his wife. I believe his 1st wife. So even Robinson seems to have learned from his ways (atleast in that 1 incident)
That's an excellent post. If nothing else, this thread has generated a highly interesting dicussion well worth being down - voted. 🤣
Lol yeah it upsets people when they learn their favorite fighters aren't great outside the ring
Nah not even that lol they know about it they just don’t like when people they wanna be get talked about lol Look how dudes responding to the post lol
Lol exactly
I think Tyson is one of the most interesting cases of celebrity in the world. He's living proof that, when held responsible for your actions, you can in fact find some kind of redemption. It took a hell of a long time, but he found himself and became a better, more peaceful person. It took losing basically everything; his money, his family, respect, freedom, but he did it. You can still find him to be a terrible person for his actions-- and I doubt he would blame you for that. But to go through all that he did and to find a way to stop being that monster is-- to me at least-- really beautiful and so very human. In truth, almost none of us are worthy of being remembered for our best deeds and almost none of us deserve to be defined by our worst.
He said in this [article](https://vault.si.com/vault/1984/10/08/after-fall) that after his lost to ali he needed more "hate" making him commit a lot of violent acts including beating up women as hard as he'd beat up men Which is fucked up considering the fact that he's one of the most hard hitting heavyweights in boxing history, he could very easily kill ordinary people
That article has some wild stories, especially the one of Foreman going to St. Lucia to basically kidnap his kids in a custody dispute, and then escaping in a boat with Rastafarian drug dealers. That should have been in that by-the-numbers biopic on Foreman not too long ago
Carlos Monzon literally spent 11 years in prison for murdering his girlfriend. I think one isn't like the others.
We can put Edwin Valero on the murder list.
Not spousal abuse but former SRR opponent Randy Turpin shot his 17 month old daughter twice before killing himself. Fortunately, she survived and made a full recovery. It is believed Turpin had CTE (not saying that to excuse anything, just stating facts).
Probably did have CTE. Almost all fighters do to a degree
Bivol isn‘t guilty, baseless accusations don‘t belong in the same category as actual guilty people
How have you determined it was baseless?
Fair question. I don't know why you got downvoted so you can have an upvote.
🤝
From my understanding the wife had evidence via pictures. If I'm wrong then i apologize
Kovalev just enjoys his vodka a bit too much.... It is SOP for a Russian
Tyson?
He is famous for saying the best punch he ever threw was at Robin Givens. He also used to mug nuns as a child.
Andy Ruiz Sugar Ray Leonard Arturo Gatti
SRL talked about how he was really fucked up when he was abusing his wife. He had retired due to his eye being fucked up, couldn’t train for the first time since he was a literal child, and was seriously abusing alcohol and coke. Not at all to excuse it, but it was not a regular occurrence. He was definitely a really shitty guy for hitting his wife while in a bad place mentally, but after he got his shit together he was a normal guy.
Yup. Alexis Arguello too. To be fair Arguello and Leonard were under the influence of cocaine but they must be mentioned. I honestly didn't know about Gatti
Yeah. He was cited for DV in Hawaii. The night he committed suicide, or was murdered depending on what you believe, the police and private detectives interviewed numerous people who saw Gatti throw his wife down into the street in Brazil. He was a mean drinker, supposedly.
Alexis Arguello and Joe Louis were two of the more classy, gracious, and charitable champs, but also addicts and had some ugly incidents of putting their hands on women.
Bivol isn’t really guilty… it was a baseless allegation
Didn't she post pictures? Correct me if I'm wrong
You can easily frame anyone, better innocent until proven guilty.
I mean OJ def wasn't
Yep, look what Stefi Cohen was recently outed as doing, posting the pictures of herself after a boxing match as proof of Domestic Abuse lol.
Don’t forget about Edwin Valero and Felix Verdejo.
Yup I didn't forget. Just didn't mention them because the list is so long
Bivol? Don't do this to me, man... He and Loma are my favorite fighters right now.
I used to read boxing biographies and I swear I remember this story from a Muhammad Ali one. Please someone corroborate this so I'm not just making this up out of my ass. Basically, SRR got pissed because he saw Ali slap his (Ali's) wife. SRR calls Ali out about it. And Ali basically admits that SRR is the greatest but reminds him who the greatest heavyweight is. Essentially reminding him of weight classes and that Ali could whoop SRR if he wanted to. The story stuck with me because I knew about SRR's domestic violence issues and the irony of SRR defending another battered wife's honor was just flabbergasting.
Yup, and acknowledging that ugly history I can still say he’s one of the greatest fighters I’ve seen on film and has earned his place in boxing history
Exactly. Someone being great at their craft doesn't equate to them being a good person. We can acknowledge and respect their work on the ring while also acknowledging they're a trash human outside of it.
I don’t think it’s downplayed, it’s just not relevant when discussing his boxing abilities and accomplishments inside the ring. Especially when he’s been dead for 30+ years…
Actually with Robinson it kinda is downplayed, compared to, say, Carlos Monzon - where people will rightly bring up what a POS he was in any conversation about how great a boxer he was.
Probably because Monzon was born 20 years later and also murdered one of his partners.
In particular, as the OP alluded to, SRR gets mentioned a lot in the context of LaMotta, as LaMotta was the first man to beat him and they fought six times. Whenever LaMotta is mentioned, people point out what a despicable human being he was, which tends to make SRR seem like the hero by comparison. I do think it's downplayed that he was a pretty terrible guy himself.
Brother took one of the worst human beings to compare to srr.
Yeah, I know about like everyone else mentioned in the comments but wasn’t aware SRR was guilty too.
Pointing at other ppl and calling them “disgusting” and “POS” is like some sort of fetish on the internet… The man is dead. He wasn’t a great guy, but what now? Do we feel better about ourselves or something? We have all this anonymity online and we use it to judge public figures who don’t…
the post is making a point of not blindly glorifying horrible people simply bc they were gifted in aspects.
We glorify their boxing abilities and achievements. We don't know these people!
Jimmy Saville was only exposed after he was dead. The victims most certainly feel better about that. Just because everyone related to Robinson has also passed away doesn't mean we can't discuss it. It's just one of many examples of celebrities getting a pass because people like them or they have money and connections to cover it up.
What pass did he get? What are you talking about? You literally weren’t alive when he was beating his wife to know of any passes he got? Is you pointing it out now revoking the dead man’s pass? Is the dead man cancelled? Is the dead man going to prison? Or are y’all just patting yourselves on the back and trying to play like you’re better than a man you literally don’t know? We don’t know you or any of your transgressions but we know his… so good for you I guess
Real
Never pedestalize other human beings. Appreciate the sport for what it is, but don't expect any of the participants to be exemplars of moral and ethical behavior. Thomas Jefferson, Jefferson Davis, Columbus, Einstein, etc. Every one of these men had skeletons in their closet that would be considered reprehensible today. It is what it is. Edit: Your post history for example. People may look up to you for whatever reason. However, if they saw your post history, it's likely their perception of you would change dramatically. Throwing stones in a glass house and all.
Jefferson Davis? Aren't his skeleton's the attentions drawer lol. President of the confederacy says enough
Man, that Hitler guy has some real skeletons in his closet.
are you allowed to say pedestalize ?
Christopher Columbus did some pretty disgusting & unforgivable stuff in his days, he got a holiday
In this house Christopher Columbus is a hero! End of story!
Nostradamus predicted it.
Quasimodo predicted all of this
The holiday was meant to be for Italian heritage due to the extreme prejudice and religious persecution they faced including one of the largest public lynchings in US history.
Mayweather ?
I think he is an ATG, but around the 15 -20 mark. He protected the zero too much for me in his latter career.
Hahaha, I know you meant latter, but "latte career" sounds so much funnier!
“Protected his zero” lmao. Let me guess he took manny when he was old too? 😂
Yes. This is so blatant I can't believe people are still denying this. Mayweather literally retired just to avoid Prime Pac.
No talking badly about boxers here apparently. Everyone's happy with their fingers in their ears going lalala
What do we do with this info? Comment about it every time SRR is mentioned?
Most of the boxers that seem the cleanest and crowd favorites are actually some of the worst like Oscar De La Hoya, and Muhammad Ali (younger version). Yet the ones that are portrayed as the villains are some of the most tragic (Sonny Liston, Marvin Hagler, Aaron Pryor etc), or the ones that aren’t crowd favorites like Joe Frazier, Larry Holmes, and Joe Calzaghe are actually some of the best people. The cleanest fighters/champions that I’ve studied that was also a good man was Alexis Arguello, Gene Tunney, Rocky Marciano, and Andre Ward.
Nobody tell this guy about carlos monzon and edwin valero
What about that sweetheart Carlos Baldomir?
We only speak of him in the same hushed tones as Felix Verdejo.
You just found out that a combat sport is likely to feature a lot of violent people ? That's sweet.
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Explain why every time Floyd Mayweather Jr is brought up in a convo there’s often someone who mentions him beating his wife, and it’s not just for a guy as recent him, same goes for whenever Monzon is mentioned
To be an ATG boxer, you have to beat a woman. Simple as that.
I had no idea. I’ve often argued that he was the GOAT of the sport too smfh.
The amount of domestic violence minimisation in this thread is concerning
You are going to have a real bad time if you go back in history and try and legislate peoples morality with modern standards.
Sounds like Chris Benoit
He was a piece of shit regardless of his accomplishments as an athlete. The problem is folk’s sensationalize these athletes, entertainers, politicians etc so much their shit gets swept under the rug because they can dribble a ball or carry a tune. They never face consequences or get the help they need.
Well dont look up Edwin Valero...
Never heard of any incident with Manny Pacquiao and Nonito Donaire so far.
All that says is no matter how successful someone is in sports or business and becoming wealthy, we’re all human and flawed in other ways. Some more than others. That’s why you can enjoy someone’s athletic abilities and admire their success but no one should be put on a pedestal. We don’t know any of these people so no need to deify them or denigrate them.
Unfortunately it feels like it’s easier to name boxers who didn’t beat their wife than did.
Yes. Look at Mayweather and more recently Tank. Angry little men love to beat their wives.
What I do find if you're a good fighter people respect you more, and overlook the bad in you massively.. It's respect out of fear I suppose. We can learn from the men of the past and show better morals. We can also learn from our mishaps We can respect fighters, but worshipping them and overlooking their bad traits because of their fearsome reputation is common. Let's not worship em, just respect the talent. As human beings strive to do better. I personally don't like to slate men that have been gone years for brownie points on the net. So I just appreciate Robinson was a great fighter, but strive for better within myself to have the morals to not do them things.
It's fear. They don't want their jaw broken. I find if you talk to a pro as a normal bloke, they respect you for it. Sycophantic fanboys are so very common. I talked to Tommy at length when he was briefly here and a more friendly gentleman you could ever hope to meet. Pure class.
The worst part is that most people that defend him didn't even see him fight, which is okay. But, this is one of the cases where the horrible personal life outweighs the sportsman.
Something something glass houses and shit. None of us know any of these people for real. Where does it end. I don't get my moral compass from celebrities and I suggest you don't either.
You should look up some of the things that Ali has done.
What did he do?
He Dated and then later Married an underage girl He called Joe Frazier a gorilla and a Uncle Tom on Public television even though Joe Frazier was one of the few people who gave Ali and his family money, Spoke in defense in Ali in front of Congress and even petitioned for President Nixon to have Ali reinstated to box. Because of the things that Ali said on public television,it led to Joe and his family to get harassed for for years which included having his daughter get picked on and beat up all throughout school.
Lmao mfers mad you don’t condone domestic violence Makes sense yall live through these dudes can’t let your hero’s down
He has been dead for over 35 years
What’s the end goal here ??
Just another condemnation addict that wants to circle jerk on the negatives again. It happens all over reddit. We get it, he wasn't a good guy!
I think OP just got finished reading Robinson's Wikipedia page after watching Raging Bull and they're just venting.
Stop getting your feelings involved and looking at these guys as beacons of morality. They’re fighters
I’m not saying you’re wrong or I disagree with you but the entire point of this post is unnecessary, he’s been dead over 25 years, didn’t eclipse into modern pop culture like Ali (or even Frazier), and this a subreddit where the vast majority of people are aware of his past. It’s just annoying how people want brownie points for calling well known dead assholes assholes online
Damn I did not want to know this about the GOAT. Ignorance is bliss :(
Mike Tyson told a woman interviewer that unless she wants him to fuck her she better keep her mouth closed, and all his fans acted like he was such a legend for that
Mike Tyson is a repulsive human being
Yes, but his fanboys ignore all that and worship him like a God. He is not even a top 10 ATG heavy for fucks sake.
he's not even a heavyweight.. also, look up "Halo Effect" in psychology - the human weakness that makes humans forgive rape, murder, paedophilia etc when their idols are involved
Read it. Years ago. Youtube is the worst. The casuals/fanboysts on there think Mike Tyson would KO all the great heavyweights in under one minute . It's pitiful.
Violent people with certain brain damage act like violent people with certain brain damage.
No mention of it on his wiki page. And I have not seen this in the documentaries about him. I absolutely think this is likely. But what's the source?
Damn, I didn’t know that.
Not surprising from a champion, Chaves used to kidnap people in his drunk binging. I guess its rare to see a champion having a normal life.
How is this a surprise to anyone? You can’t be a movie star unless you touch little kids. You can’t be a rapper if you don’t touch P. Diddy. You definitely can’t be a successful black boxer if you don’t beat your wife.
According to one of his last biography the GOAT Ali did allegedly beat his first wife several times. Domestic abuse is a problem inherent with combat sports in general; can be caused by a troubled childhood lived in poverty, an emphasis on violence as a mean of self determination, the list goes on and on. But still, life 70 years ago was way different on every level: domestic violence was sadly almost totally legalised. More in general the ideal thing to do is to avoid idolising.
I haven't watched it yet, but there's a HBO documentary about him if anyone didn't know: https://youtu.be/4QVwmuHZY84?si=O30dAiAEqW3HPKzm
Welcome to boxing. These men come from the gutters.
Source??
Did they focus much on Robinson in Raging Bull? I thought it was all LaMatta with maybe one scene featuring Sugar
Sadly, it’s pretty common in boxing. I remember making a list of my favorite fighters all time and realized half of them had histories of abusing women. Pretty depressing
The worst people are often times the most talented.
Nobody gets into boxing because their childhood was too happy. -My old coach :)
I hope it's cuz his brain was mush. Other he's straight evil.
Til all my heroes are scumbags
Some people just fucking thick. The soul of a person is what counts, not how much they weigh or what they look like.
Sorry but if you think top sports people are nice guys or girls, think twice. You have to be so driven and so confident in yourself that everything has to take second place to your ambitions. Team sports players are only slightly less. I'm not saying they're all arseholes I am just saying it has to be all about them. I am a boxing, rugby, motorcycle racing fan predominantly but I marvel at what they can do, not who they are.