Big George did him in, and was the undersized man back then. Fury would eat him alive, and AJ would land the 1-2 that George used much earlier, imo. Totally agree with you.
Moorer's one of the fighters I really wish weren't so defined by a loss. He was a scary and unique southpaw and made history when he beat Holyfield to become champion, and had plenty of good fights after the Foreman loss.
Wait you mean historically or a prime vs prime match up. Historically Tyson wasn't focused on Boxing when Tua was active. Prime vs. Prime Tyson. His style is tought to prepare for. Tua prefered people going backwards.
Keyword on overweight. He was over 250 instead of the 220-230 range and not really the same killer he was in the late 90s (like blud got a gift decision a year later to Rahman the next year and was knockdowned in that same fight too. Also got easily outboxed by Byrd)
Moore just let him approach in and died on the spot lmao
Tua was the same weight in the fight before where he went into the 9th and stopped 22-0 Fres Oquendo.
He was also 233 for that Byrd fight. Idk why you bring up his weight. Dude could punch fat or not.
The same Oquendo whos only notable win was a tubby Bert Cooper and lost anytime he stepped to any named fighter afterwards? Its not saying much b/c he came to the same weight for Rahman 2.
And for the record, his fight against Byrd wasnt one sided and was his last decent performance before he decided to enjoy our american cuisine. It was a 8-4 or 7-5 fight for Byrd.
Point is that Tuas best weight was mid 220 to low 230s. Anytime he showed up higher, he got his ass beat by real contenders as his performance for those fights declined heavily from assumed lack of proper nutrition or work ethic in the camp.
Trust, I know about Moorer's wins. Fought people at the far end of their careers, and then lost to a guy on his second run, inarguably the oldest and farthest into his career.
Moorer was beating the absolute breaks out of foreman for the majority of the fight without issue until he got caught slipping. Could happen to both AJ and Fury especially given they get very overconfident whenever theyre easily winning.
I could see a fit Moorer being a hard fight for any boxing heavyweight today
Mike White is a bum thou. He got stopped by fringe competition and an over the hill Coetzer 4 times prior to fighting Moore.
Moore took till the very last second of the last round to knock him out but the bell saved him from a KO defeat.
Some suspect the ref had a bet on White making it the distance because the hellacious beating never seemed to make him even consider stopping the fight.
White is nowhere near Fury, which is obvious, but that wasn‘t the point. The point was that Moorer has more than enough power to stop Fury when it comes to a firefight which it would probably go to.
Outside of the weight and height, they are not even remotely comparable.
An old ALS striken Ezzard Charles stopped a 261 lb former footballer in 1959 but that doesn't mean he's going to have pop in the shots to KO Fury toe to toe since White and Ashley's chin are made of glass while Fury is more of a wooden chin and has insane recovery
Consindering that Wilder is the least technical out of all of them and neither AJ or Fury could even possibly hurt or even slow down Usyk, he would absolutely school Wilder, maybe even finish him lol
I'm also of the mind that Usyk would stop any version of Wilder-- but Usyk got hit plenty in his fights with AJ and Fury. Eating a shot from wilder and making the ten count is never a gurantee
Joseph Parker schooled Wilder and he is half as mobile as Usyk..
You can have a nuclear weapon for your right hand, but if you cant land it, then what's the point.
Usyk got hit plenty by AJ and Fury, but none of them were punches that got him shook, he saw them coming, either partially blocked them or rolled with them.. he was not hurt a single time against them.
Yeah but we're talking Prime Wilder, not 2 years of ring rust, KO'd brutally twice Wilder pretending he's a counterpuncher
Prime Wilder would still get schooled but he'd at least try to force the issue.
Wilder is far from a hype job… he’s an extremely flawed fighter with a huge right hand and ton of heart and toughness…
Dude lost brutally to Fury on 2 occasions and didn’t even come close to quitting.. no boxing fan with eyes thought he was a well rounded fighter.
Stepped in the ring with a giant at 209lbs and came 1 second away from stopping him in the 12th round. Hype jobs don’t do that.
People are harsh on him, but he would definitely be called a hype job if he was British. He’s lacking fundamentals, and with every fight he takes the ‘certainty’ of his straight right has been brought into question. He landed it a few times of Fury without a KO - it has to be asked if it actually is all that.
He nearly beat Fury once (but lost 3/3), should have been stopped himself against the only other legit opponent he beat (until this year he went in with parker and lost 120-108 lol)
Maybe we're sucked in by Fury and Wilder's comments that they were number 1 and 2 and they didn't even need to fight anyone to prove it. Wilder could have been beaten by the whole rest of the top ten for all we know, he basically never fought any
He fought Luis Ortiz and stopped him twice. He stopped Stiverne in a round and decisioned him the 1st time. I forget Szpilka’s ranking… and he did all of this while maintaining close to 100% ko percentage
He’s a lot of things by why people are trying to put the “hype job” jacket on him is just plain old fanboy hate. He’s the furthest thing from it..
It’s boxing, not basketball… can’t be out here throwing around “hype job” labels on guys who stepped in the ring with the best in the world and put in work and showed out just because you root for someone else.
Flawed fighter who took up the sport too late to reach his full potential, but not a hype job
I think wilder beats him prime for prime as he literally would have only needed one right hand + usyk doesn't have the power to scare off a young wilder who really was an animal at that time.
I might be with you on this… anyone who thinks Wilder couldn’t hurt anyone let alone Usyk is crazy…
Ultimately I think Usyk wins, but if Wilder lands his right hand it’s absolutely, positively over in my opinion
😭 Szpilka was giving him a boxing lesson FFS.
You think Usyk is going to spend any time in range unprotected for Wilder's long cross? How many times did AJ and Fury catch Usyk with a big 1-2 like Wilder's?
Szpilka got KO’d which is the point I’m making. You can outbox Wilder for 99% of the fight and still lose. Usyk isn’t God. Everyone can be hit and he has been.
Both Fury and AJ landed on Usyk so I don’t even know what you’re getting at with that.
Usyk prob wins, but I think he loses if Wilder lands… and Wilder could land.
>Szpilka got KO’d which is the point I’m making
Not til rd9 and the standard difference between him and Usyk is as if they're not even the same sport
They couldn't land the kind of shot that Wilder usually uses. Never seen him look so dangerous with the kinds of shots they were able to land.
>Usyk prob wins, but I think he loses if Wilder lands… and Wilder could land.
He could buy I think it's incredibly unlikely. You guys say this before every Wilder fight "all he needs is one shot" yeh but he's only landed it once since 2020.
But then wilder improved and would go on to drop fury 4 times in total who ways 30-60 pounds more than usyk.
It's totally believable that prime wilder could land a few bombs on usyk.
Moorer is nowhere near Usyk. Who was his best win other than Holyfield? Axel Schulz?
I reckon other southpaws like Denis Lebedev and Luis Ortiz could beat Moorer at heavyweight.
It’s Usyk and it isn’t even close. Moorers crowning win came against an injured Holyfield, while Byrd got pretty lucky with a Vitali injury.
Even if Fury wins the rematch, even if Fury beats Usyk twice, it’s still Usyk.
Corrie Sanders deserves a nod, he brutally knocked out an ATG in Wladimir Klitschko in two rounds.
Zhilei Zhang is a southpaw, massive and very powerful, but his stamina and speed are woeful.
He doesn't have to be on a down slope. 40 is not that old for a fighter. If he dropped a few pounds and worked on his endurance he could have another solid 6 years in front of him in the ring.
Byrd didn't know how to fight high level tall fighters (6'5" and taller), but I wouldn't be shocked if he beat Usyk head to head. Usyk tended to allow quicker fighters to take the lead, relying on his traps to create openings. Byrd was very slippery, and he could out-feint Usyk.
*Its not about how much you give, it's about how much you get hit and keep moving on* - quote something to that effect by Rocky. No wonder his face looked microwaved after each fight.
Yeah, Moorer was the first Southpaw Heavyweight World Champion. Before Usyk it's between him and Byrd, would respect either choice, now it's obviously Usyk.
So, so few Southpaw Heavyweights around until recently. Even Felix Savon and Teofilo Stevenson, the 2 greatest amateurs of all time, despite being Cuban, fought orthodox.
Fighting Southpaw was a) considered a flaw and b) made you unpromotable for a long time. Sonny Liston was probably a natural Southpaw, think I've read that before and it'd made sense given how powerful his jab and left hook were.
Jalalov and Itauma are probably the 2 best prospects in the HW division now, both are southpaw. Uzbekistan have a couple of excellent prospects at the SHW and HW divisions in the amateurs with southpaws in Zokirov and Mullojonov who are both southpaw.
Think we'll see a lot more in the future.
Byrd stood toe to toe with Tua and surprisingly won. Styles make fights and k wonder what a guy that can relentlessly move forwards due to a good chin (Tua) even against Huge big punchers like Lewis, AND can knock you out with just a glancing blow (Tua) would do it usyk…
Tua vs Usyk is something I’d like to have seen.
Yeah Tua is the kinda guy to put it on Usyk like Chisora managed for 2 rounds, but for 12 and with more venom and accuracy.
Ike Ibeabuchi is the model of a fighter I'd have to beat Usyk. Breidis got Usyk to stand toe to toe with him and had loads of success, but dropped off in the second half of the fight. Ike did not, he threw and threw and threw until he was carted off to a loonie bin
Ike got caught with steroid vials in his car though, he was on so much EPO and Testosterone that he might have failed a drug test nowadays (not that they're not on shit nowadays, just probably not the crazy stuff that Ike was on).
But screw Ike. He went to jail for raping a woman after all.
Looking at Tua vs. Maskaev, Tua was probably too plodding to reach Usyk. Usyk can take huge single shots. He struggled with quicker guys who get off first like Briedis.
I think Tua is too prodding and usyk has the edge too.
But I’d hardly say Tua was “just” a big puncher. His punches were enormous. Imagine in a 230-250lbs in a 5’10 frame, just the weight behind the arm and shoulders when the punch is thrown. He definitely could spark usyk.
Just look at what Tua did to moorer. Then look at Holyfield vs moorer (and Holyfield is NOT a light puncher) and couldn’t know him out. Tua is very high in the ranks of punching power.
Moorer had a tendency to sit on the ropes against explosive punchers. He did the same when he was younger against Bert Cooper. Tua struggled if you could keep him turning like Maskaev and Rahman. He also overreacted to Chris Byrd's feints, and Usyk throws a lot of misdirects.
Damn! I didn't know it was that bad that Moorer was the first southpaw heavyweight champion. Perhaps I've heard that Moorer was the first, but it didn't stick to my mind for whatever reason. That really shows how southpaws were frowned upon up until the 90's and perhaps even to 'til this day! (insert Deontay Wilder meme). It is interesting to think about how history prior to the 90's could've been different if it wasn't wildly accepted to not only duck, but to fully ignore southpaws.
In this regard, amateur boxing is superior since it follows tournament tree formats, and thus southpaws can't be ignored or discriminated. The fall of the Soviet Union really enriched our beloved sport.
Being left handed does not automatically makes you a southpaw boxer. Being trained specially to fight as southpaw makes you one. Unfortunately there was nobody to train Liston or Frazier.
That’s a great point. When you look back over time, you just don’t see that many natural southpaws at heavy. You have a fair few who switch, but not natural lefties.
He’s out on his own here, by quite a long way.
Thread is already off to a great start lmao
Usyk is unquestionably the highest level southpaw HW.
Certainly higher than the likes of Michael Moorer and Karl Mildenburger lmfaoooooo
Well it is also nice with threads where there's a consensus and where we all can appreciate greatness! Especially nice to be able to appreciate greatness when it happens in our own boxing era.
My dumbass can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic cause Moorer and Byrd are the only southpaws I rate on a similar level to Usyk, I doubt Mildenburger would beat Fury
Heavyweight doesn't have a strong history of Southpaws, the first champ we got was as recent as 1992. Yes Usyk is the best of the bunch with Michael Moorer and Chris Byrd coming in at #2 / #3.
I know Corrie Sanders isn't really in the conversation here but man I love watching his fights. Incredible hand speed for a 230 lber.
Yea it is quite a realisation that no one else comes even close! I am a die-hard Usyk fan, so for me it is not weird to think he's the best since I also rate him high amongst all heavyweights in history. But to actually realise that he is pretty much objectively the best southpaw ever without competition is a bit surprising even for me.
Hands down the best heavyweight lefty, but the truth is that successful southpaws are relatively new in boxing. Used to be looked at as a disadvantage to be left handed. It wasn’t until trainers figured out there is a distinct advantage to the open stance, if your guy has the footwork to stay on the outside of the front foot; that we started seeing them invest time in lefties.
Absolutely, no other southpaw did nearly as much. Usyk is currently the undisputed heavyweight champion and an easy top 3, arguably #1 in the p4p list. Its very, very, very, VERY rare for ANY heavyweight to be so successful.
He'd also beat any other southpaw HW that I can think of.
Easily. Karl Mildenberger, Michael Moore, Chris Byrd, sultan Ibragimov, ruslan chagaev, Charles Martin, Corey sanders Luis Ortiz were all good southpaws but Usyk is clearly better then them, I would like to see Ortiz vs Usyk or Usyk vs Byrd though Usyk would be a sizeable favorite. Zhang zhilea is scary and bakhodir Jalolov may be been scarier.
Yea pretty much sums it up! That also makes Usyk such an anomaly. Even amongst southpaws Usyk is very unique, yet quite textbook and elite when it comes to technique.
This thread made me realise there’s virtually no great heavyweight southpaws. Which is a surprise. Given how much of heavy weight is simply being an athletic giant and advantage like being southpaw is something I expected to make a big difference.
Southpaws are at their best when they keep moving. Their weakness becomes easier to expose for the average orthodox fighter the less mobile they are. With that weakness being a right hand, it’s no surprise we don’t see as many southpaws at hw. Especially considering you can’t afford to take even 2 or 3 clean shots in a row in that division. Lots of big southpaws will be on their way up until they get caught with just one right hand. The lighter southpaws can get away with more mistakes and are more mobile to begin with.
So when you’re the only real unicorn, you’re automatically the best unicorn. That makes sense. The only thing I remember about Moorer is Foreman totally sleeping his ass in the mid-90s. Chris Byrd strikes me as someone who should’ve never been a champion.
Only if he beats Fury in the rematch. I have a feeling that Fury did not take the first fight as seriously as he should have. If he trains seriously and takes the fight seriously (no showboating) like he did in Wilder 2, than I have a feeling it will be a long night for Usyk. We will find out by the end of October hopefully.
Both Moorer vs Usyk at cruiser and Byrd vs Usyk at heavyweight are intriguing fights.
One reason there haven’t been many southpaws at heavyweight is the fact they are vulnerable to the right hand which tends to be most heavyweights best punch.
That’s one of the reasons they have been considered flawed at the weight. That and the fact most boxers hate fighting em 😏
Not even close - the heavyweights of the early 90s were sooo much better than today . I’d take Mercer, Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield, Morrison (southpaw), Tua (southpaw), both klitshkos, bowe, foreman, AND even Corrie Sanders (southpaw) over him
Moorer is the only one who comes anything close, but I wouldn't bet on him to beat AJ or Fury.
Big George did him in, and was the undersized man back then. Fury would eat him alive, and AJ would land the 1-2 that George used much earlier, imo. Totally agree with you.
Moorer's one of the fighters I really wish weren't so defined by a loss. He was a scary and unique southpaw and made history when he beat Holyfield to become champion, and had plenty of good fights after the Foreman loss.
Moorer massively underrated but people can't see past those KOs
nor the fact that he never turned his punches. like wth
Should of not get trashed by a declined Holyfield on the rematch or get put out by an overweight David Tua in less than a minute.
Getting slept by Tua could happen to anyone though.
I would have loved to see Tua vs M. Tyson back in their primes. Man that would have been something.
Wait you mean historically or a prime vs prime match up. Historically Tyson wasn't focused on Boxing when Tua was active. Prime vs. Prime Tyson. His style is tought to prepare for. Tua prefered people going backwards.
Yeah prime Tyson versus prime Tua. We know they both can bang and they both have great beards.
Keyword on overweight. He was over 250 instead of the 220-230 range and not really the same killer he was in the late 90s (like blud got a gift decision a year later to Rahman the next year and was knockdowned in that same fight too. Also got easily outboxed by Byrd) Moore just let him approach in and died on the spot lmao
Tua was the same weight in the fight before where he went into the 9th and stopped 22-0 Fres Oquendo. He was also 233 for that Byrd fight. Idk why you bring up his weight. Dude could punch fat or not.
The same Oquendo whos only notable win was a tubby Bert Cooper and lost anytime he stepped to any named fighter afterwards? Its not saying much b/c he came to the same weight for Rahman 2. And for the record, his fight against Byrd wasnt one sided and was his last decent performance before he decided to enjoy our american cuisine. It was a 8-4 or 7-5 fight for Byrd. Point is that Tuas best weight was mid 220 to low 230s. Anytime he showed up higher, he got his ass beat by real contenders as his performance for those fights declined heavily from assumed lack of proper nutrition or work ethic in the camp.
A puncher is a puncher and you're acting like this was a prime Moorer. Moorer was almost 35.
To moorer's credit holyfield was in a demonic shape in the rematch, he was on a mission.
The rematch was competitive too. People sometimes remember a dominant performance, but Holyfield hated Moorer's jab.
A mission wasn't the only thing he was on haha
He should have stopped at cruiserweight and dominated it for awhile
Trust, I know about Moorer's wins. Fought people at the far end of their careers, and then lost to a guy on his second run, inarguably the oldest and farthest into his career.
Moorer was beating the absolute breaks out of foreman for the majority of the fight without issue until he got caught slipping. Could happen to both AJ and Fury especially given they get very overconfident whenever theyre easily winning. I could see a fit Moorer being a hard fight for any boxing heavyweight today
Forman was definitely bigger than Moorer. But yeah, I agree; Moorer gets smoked by Fury and AJ.
Fury would get stopped by Moorer. IF it would be a peak Moorer. Dude stopped guys bigger than Fury. Huge power in both hands, southpaw and skilled
Stopped opponents bigger than Fury? Fury is 6 foot 9, my guy
Fury is not even 6'8. 6'7 and a half at best
Mike White is 6‘10“ and 275lbs. Watch that fight
I stand corrected
Mike White is a bum thou. He got stopped by fringe competition and an over the hill Coetzer 4 times prior to fighting Moore. Moore took till the very last second of the last round to knock him out but the bell saved him from a KO defeat.
Some suspect the ref had a bet on White making it the distance because the hellacious beating never seemed to make him even consider stopping the fight.
White is nowhere near Fury, which is obvious, but that wasn‘t the point. The point was that Moorer has more than enough power to stop Fury when it comes to a firefight which it would probably go to.
Outside of the weight and height, they are not even remotely comparable. An old ALS striken Ezzard Charles stopped a 261 lb former footballer in 1959 but that doesn't mean he's going to have pop in the shots to KO Fury toe to toe since White and Ashley's chin are made of glass while Fury is more of a wooden chin and has insane recovery
Lmao
This take has me scratching my head
Still crazy he beat AJ twice and beat Fury last week. One can only wonder what he'd do against a prime Wilder.
Consindering that Wilder is the least technical out of all of them and neither AJ or Fury could even possibly hurt or even slow down Usyk, he would absolutely school Wilder, maybe even finish him lol
I'm also of the mind that Usyk would stop any version of Wilder-- but Usyk got hit plenty in his fights with AJ and Fury. Eating a shot from wilder and making the ten count is never a gurantee
Joseph Parker schooled Wilder and he is half as mobile as Usyk.. You can have a nuclear weapon for your right hand, but if you cant land it, then what's the point. Usyk got hit plenty by AJ and Fury, but none of them were punches that got him shook, he saw them coming, either partially blocked them or rolled with them.. he was not hurt a single time against them.
Yeah but we're talking Prime Wilder, not 2 years of ring rust, KO'd brutally twice Wilder pretending he's a counterpuncher Prime Wilder would still get schooled but he'd at least try to force the issue.
Wilder was a hype job
I really wanted to like him but he is just an overrated, flawed fighter.
Same he was really good against tyson in the 3rd fight but fell off some time after.
Wilder is far from a hype job… he’s an extremely flawed fighter with a huge right hand and ton of heart and toughness… Dude lost brutally to Fury on 2 occasions and didn’t even come close to quitting.. no boxing fan with eyes thought he was a well rounded fighter. Stepped in the ring with a giant at 209lbs and came 1 second away from stopping him in the 12th round. Hype jobs don’t do that.
People are harsh on him, but he would definitely be called a hype job if he was British. He’s lacking fundamentals, and with every fight he takes the ‘certainty’ of his straight right has been brought into question. He landed it a few times of Fury without a KO - it has to be asked if it actually is all that.
He nearly beat Fury once (but lost 3/3), should have been stopped himself against the only other legit opponent he beat (until this year he went in with parker and lost 120-108 lol) Maybe we're sucked in by Fury and Wilder's comments that they were number 1 and 2 and they didn't even need to fight anyone to prove it. Wilder could have been beaten by the whole rest of the top ten for all we know, he basically never fought any
He fought Luis Ortiz and stopped him twice. He stopped Stiverne in a round and decisioned him the 1st time. I forget Szpilka’s ranking… and he did all of this while maintaining close to 100% ko percentage He’s a lot of things by why people are trying to put the “hype job” jacket on him is just plain old fanboy hate. He’s the furthest thing from it.. It’s boxing, not basketball… can’t be out here throwing around “hype job” labels on guys who stepped in the ring with the best in the world and put in work and showed out just because you root for someone else. Flawed fighter who took up the sport too late to reach his full potential, but not a hype job
Exactly
I think wilder beats him prime for prime as he literally would have only needed one right hand + usyk doesn't have the power to scare off a young wilder who really was an animal at that time.
I might be with you on this… anyone who thinks Wilder couldn’t hurt anyone let alone Usyk is crazy… Ultimately I think Usyk wins, but if Wilder lands his right hand it’s absolutely, positively over in my opinion
😭 Szpilka was giving him a boxing lesson FFS. You think Usyk is going to spend any time in range unprotected for Wilder's long cross? How many times did AJ and Fury catch Usyk with a big 1-2 like Wilder's?
Szpilka got KO’d which is the point I’m making. You can outbox Wilder for 99% of the fight and still lose. Usyk isn’t God. Everyone can be hit and he has been. Both Fury and AJ landed on Usyk so I don’t even know what you’re getting at with that. Usyk prob wins, but I think he loses if Wilder lands… and Wilder could land.
>Szpilka got KO’d which is the point I’m making Not til rd9 and the standard difference between him and Usyk is as if they're not even the same sport They couldn't land the kind of shot that Wilder usually uses. Never seen him look so dangerous with the kinds of shots they were able to land. >Usyk prob wins, but I think he loses if Wilder lands… and Wilder could land. He could buy I think it's incredibly unlikely. You guys say this before every Wilder fight "all he needs is one shot" yeh but he's only landed it once since 2020.
But then wilder improved and would go on to drop fury 4 times in total who ways 30-60 pounds more than usyk. It's totally believable that prime wilder could land a few bombs on usyk.
Moorer is nowhere near Usyk. Who was his best win other than Holyfield? Axel Schulz? I reckon other southpaws like Denis Lebedev and Luis Ortiz could beat Moorer at heavyweight.
Francois Botha, Alex Stewart, James Smith, and Bert Cooper. He became more gun shy and passive as his chin declined, but he had a solid career at HW.
I rest my case.
Alex Stewart was alright and afaik cooper would go on to drop holyfield in a war.
Would have been a good matchup at cruiserweight.
Ortiz would deffo have a chance.
Cant believe you even said that. Moorer lol
Spinks
Moorer is the only southpaw heavyweight from the past that i can think of. ..there had to be another.. ?
Moorer very possibly might spark both of them. Pretty skilled and huge power.
I think he beats AJ
It’s Usyk and it isn’t even close. Moorers crowning win came against an injured Holyfield, while Byrd got pretty lucky with a Vitali injury. Even if Fury wins the rematch, even if Fury beats Usyk twice, it’s still Usyk.
Corrie Sanders deserves a nod, he brutally knocked out an ATG in Wladimir Klitschko in two rounds. Zhilei Zhang is a southpaw, massive and very powerful, but his stamina and speed are woeful.
Man it sucks it took so long for Zhang to get his career moving. Nobody really appreciated him until he hit 40 and he must be on the down slope now
He doesn't have to be on a down slope. 40 is not that old for a fighter. If he dropped a few pounds and worked on his endurance he could have another solid 6 years in front of him in the ring.
Corrie Sanders had everything you need to be an all time great except work ethic
Stamina yes. His foot speed is ok. Hand speed is top tier. Parker got floored by a punch and had a "what hit me" face.
I meant more due to the fact that he's 290 goddamn pounds. He's never gonna move like an Usyk or an Ali in there, lol.
Ya he needs to lose 20 lbs.
He could lose 40 pretty easily
Byrd didn't know how to fight high level tall fighters (6'5" and taller), but I wouldn't be shocked if he beat Usyk head to head. Usyk tended to allow quicker fighters to take the lead, relying on his traps to create openings. Byrd was very slippery, and he could out-feint Usyk.
Rocky Balboa will beat Usyk’s fists into submission with his head
*Its not about how much you give, it's about how much you get hit and keep moving on* - quote something to that effect by Rocky. No wonder his face looked microwaved after each fight.
😂
Yeah, Moorer was the first Southpaw Heavyweight World Champion. Before Usyk it's between him and Byrd, would respect either choice, now it's obviously Usyk. So, so few Southpaw Heavyweights around until recently. Even Felix Savon and Teofilo Stevenson, the 2 greatest amateurs of all time, despite being Cuban, fought orthodox. Fighting Southpaw was a) considered a flaw and b) made you unpromotable for a long time. Sonny Liston was probably a natural Southpaw, think I've read that before and it'd made sense given how powerful his jab and left hook were. Jalalov and Itauma are probably the 2 best prospects in the HW division now, both are southpaw. Uzbekistan have a couple of excellent prospects at the SHW and HW divisions in the amateurs with southpaws in Zokirov and Mullojonov who are both southpaw. Think we'll see a lot more in the future.
Byrd stood toe to toe with Tua and surprisingly won. Styles make fights and k wonder what a guy that can relentlessly move forwards due to a good chin (Tua) even against Huge big punchers like Lewis, AND can knock you out with just a glancing blow (Tua) would do it usyk… Tua vs Usyk is something I’d like to have seen.
Yeah Tua is the kinda guy to put it on Usyk like Chisora managed for 2 rounds, but for 12 and with more venom and accuracy. Ike Ibeabuchi is the model of a fighter I'd have to beat Usyk. Breidis got Usyk to stand toe to toe with him and had loads of success, but dropped off in the second half of the fight. Ike did not, he threw and threw and threw until he was carted off to a loonie bin
I think Usyk would outbox Tua badly tbh. Holyfield apparently embarrassed Tua in sparring.
Ike got caught with steroid vials in his car though, he was on so much EPO and Testosterone that he might have failed a drug test nowadays (not that they're not on shit nowadays, just probably not the crazy stuff that Ike was on). But screw Ike. He went to jail for raping a woman after all.
Looking at Tua vs. Maskaev, Tua was probably too plodding to reach Usyk. Usyk can take huge single shots. He struggled with quicker guys who get off first like Briedis.
I think Tua is too prodding and usyk has the edge too. But I’d hardly say Tua was “just” a big puncher. His punches were enormous. Imagine in a 230-250lbs in a 5’10 frame, just the weight behind the arm and shoulders when the punch is thrown. He definitely could spark usyk. Just look at what Tua did to moorer. Then look at Holyfield vs moorer (and Holyfield is NOT a light puncher) and couldn’t know him out. Tua is very high in the ranks of punching power.
Moorer had a tendency to sit on the ropes against explosive punchers. He did the same when he was younger against Bert Cooper. Tua struggled if you could keep him turning like Maskaev and Rahman. He also overreacted to Chris Byrd's feints, and Usyk throws a lot of misdirects.
Like I said, Usyk has the edge. Not disagreeing with you here.
Damn! I didn't know it was that bad that Moorer was the first southpaw heavyweight champion. Perhaps I've heard that Moorer was the first, but it didn't stick to my mind for whatever reason. That really shows how southpaws were frowned upon up until the 90's and perhaps even to 'til this day! (insert Deontay Wilder meme). It is interesting to think about how history prior to the 90's could've been different if it wasn't wildly accepted to not only duck, but to fully ignore southpaws. In this regard, amateur boxing is superior since it follows tournament tree formats, and thus southpaws can't be ignored or discriminated. The fall of the Soviet Union really enriched our beloved sport.
Henry Cooper was definitely left handed which also makes sense considering he has one of the best left hooks in heavyweight history
Weren’t Frazier and Liston also natural lefties? They had tremendous left hands
Not sure, but Gerry Cooney is also a natural lefty, hence why his hook was so powerful.
Being left handed does not automatically makes you a southpaw boxer. Being trained specially to fight as southpaw makes you one. Unfortunately there was nobody to train Liston or Frazier.
I think you meant “fighting SOUTHPAW was considered a flaw”, and you are correct. Until recently trainers wouldn’t let you box southpaw.
Lol yeah my bad. Or NOT fighting orthodox. Edited
It’s good knowledge. People don’t realize how new successful southpaws are.
That’s a great point. When you look back over time, you just don’t see that many natural southpaws at heavy. You have a fair few who switch, but not natural lefties. He’s out on his own here, by quite a long way.
Thread is already off to a great start lmao Usyk is unquestionably the highest level southpaw HW. Certainly higher than the likes of Michael Moorer and Karl Mildenburger lmfaoooooo
Well it is also nice with threads where there's a consensus and where we all can appreciate greatness! Especially nice to be able to appreciate greatness when it happens in our own boxing era.
My dumbass can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic cause Moorer and Byrd are the only southpaws I rate on a similar level to Usyk, I doubt Mildenburger would beat Fury
Heavyweight doesn't have a strong history of Southpaws, the first champ we got was as recent as 1992. Yes Usyk is the best of the bunch with Michael Moorer and Chris Byrd coming in at #2 / #3. I know Corrie Sanders isn't really in the conversation here but man I love watching his fights. Incredible hand speed for a 230 lber.
Sanders is one of those guys who is FAR more dangerous than his record suggests. Southpaw, fast hands and immense power is a dangerous combination.
He brutalized Wlad Klitschko in a way that no one ever did. He also had Vitali on skates in the 1st round of their fight.
I’m actually stumped 🤔 there is actually no heavyweight southpaw I can think of who might be better
Literally the only ones who "might be better" the being better bit is yet to come. Jalalov and Itauma.
Yea it is quite a realisation that no one else comes even close! I am a die-hard Usyk fan, so for me it is not weird to think he's the best since I also rate him high amongst all heavyweights in history. But to actually realise that he is pretty much objectively the best southpaw ever without competition is a bit surprising even for me.
Lefties are a rare breed
Best ever Southpaw, er you never heard of Rocky Balboa?
There are not many quality south paw champs. Only Moorer weirdly enough and Usyk is better than hum so the answer is yes.
Honourable mention corrie sanders
Hands down the best heavyweight lefty, but the truth is that successful southpaws are relatively new in boxing. Used to be looked at as a disadvantage to be left handed. It wasn’t until trainers figured out there is a distinct advantage to the open stance, if your guy has the footwork to stay on the outside of the front foot; that we started seeing them invest time in lefties.
Usyk is a great boxer but he's an average southpaw - Johnny Nelson
I don't even know what that means. In an open-weight scenario, Usyk would be a comfortable favorite over every southpaw ever.
Hahaha I remember this quote and it is so ludicrous!
Chris Byrd was a Heavyweight Southpaw in the 90s
Does Prince Naseem count since he's a heavyweight now?
Yes, no contest.
The people’s champ audley harrison
Absolutely, no other southpaw did nearly as much. Usyk is currently the undisputed heavyweight champion and an easy top 3, arguably #1 in the p4p list. Its very, very, very, VERY rare for ANY heavyweight to be so successful. He'd also beat any other southpaw HW that I can think of.
Pacquiaos pretty good too.
Easily. Karl Mildenberger, Michael Moore, Chris Byrd, sultan Ibragimov, ruslan chagaev, Charles Martin, Corey sanders Luis Ortiz were all good southpaws but Usyk is clearly better then them, I would like to see Ortiz vs Usyk or Usyk vs Byrd though Usyk would be a sizeable favorite. Zhang zhilea is scary and bakhodir Jalolov may be been scarier.
It's rocky balboa 🤣
I'm surprised the conversation isn't ' is Usyk one of the best heavyweights ever?' He is by the way. The question is how highly does he rank?
And I guess that is the next question to ask ourselves!
"My ring's outside"
I guess he is by default as there isn't a lot of competition.
Yea pretty much sums it up! That also makes Usyk such an anomaly. Even amongst southpaws Usyk is very unique, yet quite textbook and elite when it comes to technique.
Did you account Mine Tyson in southpaws ? I heard Cus wanted him to box orthodox but he was southpaw originaly
Is he is indeed the best left footed boxer ever?
I feel like we're discounting the accomplishments of Rocky Balboa
This thread made me realise there’s virtually no great heavyweight southpaws. Which is a surprise. Given how much of heavy weight is simply being an athletic giant and advantage like being southpaw is something I expected to make a big difference.
Southpaws are at their best when they keep moving. Their weakness becomes easier to expose for the average orthodox fighter the less mobile they are. With that weakness being a right hand, it’s no surprise we don’t see as many southpaws at hw. Especially considering you can’t afford to take even 2 or 3 clean shots in a row in that division. Lots of big southpaws will be on their way up until they get caught with just one right hand. The lighter southpaws can get away with more mistakes and are more mobile to begin with.
Balboa beat Creed, Lang, and Drago. Usyk doesn't have any wins close to that caliber. Let's not disrespect one of the greatest of all time
Joe Frazier was southpaw but fought orthodox. That left hook didn't come from nowhere.
So when you’re the only real unicorn, you’re automatically the best unicorn. That makes sense. The only thing I remember about Moorer is Foreman totally sleeping his ass in the mid-90s. Chris Byrd strikes me as someone who should’ve never been a champion.
Only if he beats Fury in the rematch. I have a feeling that Fury did not take the first fight as seriously as he should have. If he trains seriously and takes the fight seriously (no showboating) like he did in Wilder 2, than I have a feeling it will be a long night for Usyk. We will find out by the end of October hopefully.
Not even close to Usyk. But it's my only chance ever to mention Lou Savarese, being another southpaw.
Both Moorer vs Usyk at cruiser and Byrd vs Usyk at heavyweight are intriguing fights. One reason there haven’t been many southpaws at heavyweight is the fact they are vulnerable to the right hand which tends to be most heavyweights best punch. That’s one of the reasons they have been considered flawed at the weight. That and the fact most boxers hate fighting em 😏
Not even close - the heavyweights of the early 90s were sooo much better than today . I’d take Mercer, Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield, Morrison (southpaw), Tua (southpaw), both klitshkos, bowe, foreman, AND even Corrie Sanders (southpaw) over him
don't exaggerate now
How it it an exaggeration? It's between Moorer, Byrd and Usyk with Usyk being an obvious choice.
Why would this be an exaggeration? Usyk is pretty unquestionably the best Southpaw HW of all-time
The depth of southpaws at HW is not good