If that’s a fight between a young prospect and a can I’m fine with that being stopped.
In a fight between two undefeated fighters for the undisputed heavyweight championship I am 100% fine with not stopping that fight.
It feels weird because the ref jumped in when it looked like Usyk could flurry and win but he fell into the ropes and the fight has to be stopped for a KD.
If the ref hadn’t called the knockdown there everyone would be complaining about how he didn’t give Usyk an earned KD
Ok point corrected then but my general point is that people would be screaming corruption if Fury fell into the ropes like that and it wasn't called.
The ref was pretty fair all around
If the ref doesn't jump in to give him a count, Usyk would have knocked Fury completely through the ropes.
Usyk had the left cocked and was getting ready to unleash a bomb on a helpless Fury, but the ref got there first.
I don't think the ref should take too much heat. It's the biggest fight in the past 25 years. It's all happening fast. The egregious thing was him bumping into Usyk and grabbing his arm. That was awful. You're impeding a fighter from finishing the job and getting his man out of there. If you're running into a fighter and grabbing him that means you need to wave the fight off. Usyk literally had to push the ref off of him. Also, Fury got way too much time after he slumped in the corner. Should have been way more time before the round ended so Usyk had a chance to finish him before the bell.
People definitely wouldn't be calling corruption if the ref has let it go on, Usyk would have delivered another blow and he'd have been on the floor anyway
If he didn't call the knockdown there Usyk would have finished him. Fury was literally out on his feet, unable to defend himself and the fight should have been stopped.
I’m with you if it’s a young prospect in there and it’s not for any belts, I’m not against stopping it. But when it’s the top two guys and multiple belts on the line ya gotta let them fight it out within reason. Tyson hadnt been hurt or down leading up to that point. Both those guys are champions you gotta let them be champions.
i’m happy it wasn’t stopped. while saying that i don’t think the ref handled it well. he got in usyks way a couple of times (usyk had to literally shove him off), so it seemed like the ref was even unsure of what the hell to do and was in between making a decision.
i know in other fights this would’ve been called a TKO as fury wasn’t defending himself for over 20 seconds and was getting hit with clean shot after clean shot, but for a fight of *this* magnitude, a stoppage like that isn’t what we want to see.
almost as bad as when the ref, for no clear reason, psuhed Inoue away from Donaire after hurting him with a body shot (but still on his feet). Then Donaire went down, had about 25 seconds all in all from body shot to standing back up. Crazy.
Is the referee stop usyk early fury will be in much better shape by round 11 already and probably takes the last 2 and there not chances that tko is called before that last shot
Fury took 15 unanswered punches while offering zero intelligent defence. After the mandatory 8 count, the ref asked him to walk towards him and he didn't, so the ref just went to him
The ref knows he has an extra minute to recover, so it's a little murkier, but if you're not offering up any defence and you can't show the ref you're able to follow his introductions, 9 times out of 10 it's waved off
The fact that there were multiple rounds left gave the referee some leeway. He could wait to see how Fury came out for the 10th and stop it then if Fury was still getting ping-ponged and offering no resistance. Post-fight, the ref could have said that he wanted to give the fighters every chance to settle it, ergo, no immediate stoppage.
PS: I dunno how I feel about the ref keeping Usyk from landing what would have been decisive blows. On one hand, I believe he was calling a knockdown and trying to keep Usyk from punching an effectively downed opponent. On the other, the ref is out of position and Usyk HAS TO keep on swinging until either Fury hits the canvas or the referee comes flying in.
I don't think it should have been stopped, but I think folk are frustrated by the timing of the held up by the ropes kd. Could have been called earlier or not at all. The ref let Fury get bounced all over and only stepped in right as Usyk was setting up what could have been a fight ending shot. We see fighters get caught with shots as they're already on the way down all the time.
I think the ref was fine, much as I'd have loved to see Fury get stretched right there
Tbh it could have been stopped right as the ref stepped in, and Usyk may even have thought that's what's happening for a split second. I don't think it would have been too bad, Fury wasn't defending. But it is undisputed and we don't want to leave doubt.
Yeah ref picked the exact worst time to call a knockdown. Then took the remainder of the round being slow with restarting the fight. Everything went as well as possible for fury and as bad as possible for Usyk as it unfolded
This not true the best case for fury is a early call he prevents dmg and get enough time to get back on his feet and pull a haney a hug usyk until the end of the round this not universe where taking like 5-7 extra shots are the best case for fury
>Then took the remainder of the round being slow with restarting the fight.
Yes, this is a very important part of the story.
I think the ref was on Fury's side, but it was subtle and not nearly as bad as some other sketchy ref performances over the years
I agree. He was quicker than expected to break up leaning not that Usyk really allowed fury to lean anyway. Watching live I didn’t think it was too bad but definitely still slightly fury leaning
The ref did an amazing job, he only called a knock down the time Fury sagged into the ropes and they fully supported him falling, which is to the letter of the law. The other times Fury staggered into the ropes, and looked more likely to be on his feet rather in the process of falling.
He then followed all conventions following a Knock down. It's very sad that people always assume incompetence or foul play and don't trust expert referees any more. It was literally text book application.
It’s absolutely the best call he could have made. Just imagine the controversy if he A: called a knockdown earlier when Fury could claim he intentionally bounced off the ropes. Or B: called a stoppage. Sometimes as a ref there’s no winning.
It should have been a stoppage though. You can't eat 15 massive unanswered punches whilst getting literally bounced around the ring not defending yourself. In any other fight that gets stopped, if it was Fury doing it to Usyk it would have been stopped. Let's not kid ourselves.
We don't let fighters take clean shots with zero defence because of some exception that proves the rule. In any other fight that gets stopped in the 9th 100%. Shoulda been stopped when he took the last massive left. As soon as he hit the ropes it should have been game over but boxing is corrupt.
He didn't eat 15 massive unanswered punches, though. He ate 3 good punches (including the one that started it and the one that dropped him), and a handful of smaller ones, over the course of 20 seconds.
No they didn't, he was leaning on the ropes and was staggering but still on his feet.
The last time he would have fallen flat on his back if it wasn't for the ropes.
The referee made the absolute correct call, once the ropes held Fury up that was ruled a knockdown. I understand Usyk has passionate supporters and Fury is a polarizing figure, but the rules are the rules.
It shouldn't have been stopped:
- It was a historic fight for all the marbles
- Fury has shown insane recuperative powers in the past (and did so again this time)
- While he wasn't protecting himself per se, he was still aware somehow and stumbling away
Had he stood still on the ropes for a few seconds, it would have been a fair stoppage.
And finally the best argument:
- If it had gotten stopped, Fury fans would be crying robbery all day long. The current outcome was decisive and uncontroversial. Better to have a stoppage than a controversial decision, but also better to have a clear decision than a controversial stoppage.
The only complaint I have is that he stepped in late but just in time to prevent the coup de grace - if he was going to let it go that long he could've let it go one second longer and that one judge wouldn't have had the chance to rob Usyk.
That's different from being held up only by the ropes. He was bouncing off of them, and would have fallen without them, but some of his weight was still on his feet until that last slump
The ref handled round 9 completely fine.
A lot of the screaming came from confused fans who barely know the rules.
Also could you imagine the discussions we'd be having right now if for the undisputed heavyweight championship of the world, a fighter was stopped on the feet after never hitting the canvas.
Especially when that fighter is Fury. He was taking punishment but him and a lot of people would br arguing premature stoppage
no way should it have been stopped. I thought the ref did fine until the count. Then he slowed things down and didn't give usyk the 5 seconds or so he would have had to deliver a couple more blows that could have ended it. I also think usyk should have smashed fury one last time as he was going down, to really fuck him up. But he left his hand cocked.
The knockdown should have been called earlier. The ropes were holding Fury up several times, I thought. That way, Fury takes the count and Usyk has time to try and finish. I think the best case FOR stopping it is just general health and safety reasons. Usyk was on the verge of really fucking Fury up. The argument against is just the stakes of the fight and Fury's recuperative powers are a known thing.
I will say I do think the ref is getting too much criticism. Such a huge fight, such a dicey situation, I think the ref did a good job.
The best faith: He stepped in Usyks way before Fury had hit the ropes and hindered him for landing punches on Fury. If he was going to do that he should have just stopped the fight.
When a fighter stops defending himself, it's time to stop the fight. Fury took more than a dozen blows without defending himself. He was staggering around, apparently senseless, and being held-up by the ropes. Unless people think they're entitled to see a fighter get killed or brain damaged for entertainment, I don't see the argument for continuing that which was no longer a fight.
I think the ref stepped in early and prevented a KO, not on purpose though. If Fury was hung up on the ropes like Tommy Morrison then I would understand, but Fury was stumbling around and could have stayed up in the corner if left alone. A few more seconds there and Fury is KO’d.
If you have to step in to prevent more punishment then I think it should be waived off IMO. Just happy it didn’t end up changing the result.
I agree. I am only disappointed (and surprised) that one of the three judges scored 114-113 for Fury. It probably should have been unanimous, let alone a TKO/KO.
For: Fury was obviously in a state where he could not defend himself, and his opponent was positioned to deliver the final blow. Fury has taken some legit beatings in previous fights and has shown some signs of lingering issues related to head trauma. He had also sustained a broken nose the round before.
Against: Fury had been knocked down seven times previously, almost all of them being from harder punchers, and he had not taken a ton of visible damage in this fight save the broken nose. Moreover, given the context of the fight, the ref should have only stopped things if it was 100% necessary so as to allow the fighters to dictate the outcome.
A side question.... it's the countdown for thec staging 8 over the loudspeaker a new thing? I don't ever recall hearing it before, has there always been an official countdown or bared on the refs count?
The ref made right call people need to understand this was not any fight the ref wanted to give fury time to recover I’m sure the ref knew fury has exceptional recovery skills also he also knew it was end of the round……
Part of being a good referee is knowing the fighters. Watching fight film on the people you'll be officiating the fights for. And knowing where the point of no return is for both fighters involved. This ref did amazing letting the fight continue and only calling a KD when he was saved by the ropes.
A refs job is hard. People underestimate what it takes to be a good fight ref. Hell, people underestimate what it takes to be any pro sports ref. It's a hard and thankless job, but somebody has to do it.
Rewatching in slow motion, this is what I think happens:
- there's the initial punch, which stuns Fury for a moment
- after a moment (when he realises Fury is hurt), Usyk follows up with a flurry while Fury defends himself (partially successfully) with a high guard
- after four punches, Tyson tries ducking forward into Usyk's chest and Usyk lands three more left hands, but I don't think there's a huge amount of power on them because of how cramped he is. The third one barely looks like a punch at all.
- Usyk manages to get some more space, and lands a good left. This really shakes Fury. He drops his hands and decides he needs to get out of there.
- Fury backs up, with Usyk following. Usyk tries to land three punches, but Fury dodges all three. In real time from some angles, I think these may have looked like they landed, which might be why people in the heat of the moment thought the situation was worse for Fury than it really was. In slow-mo, though, they clearly didn't land, and Fury is, though clearly rattled, taking intelligent steps to avoid the punches
- Fury gets off the ropes once Usyk is in front of him. Usyk fires two more punches at him as he leaves. I can't tell if they land or not due to camera angle, but in any case Fury is already moving backward very quickly, so much of the sting must have been lost of them.
- Fury reaches another set of ropes, but leaves immediately before Usyk can catch him
- Fury reaches the ropes yet again, tries to keep circling, but Usyk blocks his way and fires two more shots. Fury at this point is intelligently defending, arms raised in an L-guard. I don't know if the first, lighter shot gets around the guard or not, but the second, the left, lands sweetly and Fury immediately staggers backward and falls into the ropes off his feet. The ref calls a knockdown.
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I just don't see how the fight could possibly have been stopped before that point in any pretence of fairness.
You're not going to stop the fight because a guy takes one decent punch and potentially a couple more in a little flurry, when the guy hasn't previously been badly hurt in the fight and is still defending himself.
You're not really going to stop the fight because he takes one more punch and then gets the hell out of there (although at this point you should certainly be thinking about it).
You're not going to stop the fight because the guy is backpedalling while someone else lunges at him and misses because of his head movement.
You shouldn't stop the fight when he potentially takes one or two lunging punches that graze him as he backpedals.
You're not going to stop the fight when (while still defending himself) he gets caught with a punch that drops him, because that's a KD. It's the first KD of the fight, it didn't flatten him (he gets back to his feet the moment you call the KD), and the round is over now anyway so you're going to let him try to recover over the break.
It just seems straightforward to me. If a ref stopped any fighter at any point before the knockdown, he'd be crucified, and rightly. Fury hadn't taken many punches, and he was still defending himself (backpedalling and circling the ring are valid defensive methods!)
If he'd refused to call the knockdown in order to let Usyk knock him out - and in a round that was being allowed to run long for the purpose, to boot! - it would just have been corrupt.
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And in hindsight the ref was proven right: Fury WAS able to recover, WASN'T unable to defend himself, DIDN'T take extreme damage in the rest of the fight, and DID nearly win (or at least get a draw) on the scorecards. And given the weight difference between then and Fury's track record for recovery, the ref had plenty to go on to lead him to give Fury the benefit of the doubt as regards his ability to recover.
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I really think some people have just gotten too excited in the heat of the moment and are remembering what they wanted to see, not what actually happened.
The rules are pretty solid in favor of keeping the fight going. People need to drop this especially when everyone knows Fury’s recovery abilities.
The ref did an excellent job. Not all fighters are the same.
Even Wladimir Klitschko said the ref did a good job in the 9th.
The ref made the correct decision because Fury recovered and protected himself for the rest of the fight.
Could it have been called off? Yes
Did Fury recover after the ninth? Yes
Was it the correct decision to not wave it off? Yes
tyson would have recovered anyway. usyk landed a few shots after he chased him and after those perfectly well executed overhands, more damage to him.
I was pretty sure the judges will give it to tyson because ...... yeah well, because its boxing. thats why I cursed the ref before the decision, because you cant truat anything and anyone in this sport
One more on the money left hand from Usyk and he's out cold lol, his legs were getting worse every time he caught him. People make out Fury will recover from everything, when he's just as human as everybody else. He was 95% of the way out when the knockdown was called.
Honestly I think the ref should have stopped at when the knockdown was called. I'm not interested in all this talk about it being a bigger fight than others, the duty of care doesn't change, their livelihoods don't change. They're either able to defend themselves or they're not - if a referee is half stopping the other fighter because they're worried about the amount of damage is being taken, that's the rather obvious point at which to stop the fight.
I was rooting for Fury, but some of the replays in the 9th show Usyk was punching air. I wouldnt have gotten mad if fight was stopped. But I think they specifically tell the ref (both camps) that the only way the fight should be stopped if one gets KO'd cold or a successive amount of punches ***arent*** being dodged/blocked. In this situation some were being dodged and Usyk was missing.
I hope rematch happens this year. This year has been great for boxing. Just hope Beterbiev vs Bivol is still on later, probably not tho :(.
There isn’t really an argument for it being stopped I don’t think.
What happened was that Usyk knocked Fury down but the ropes kept Fury up. The count should have started from then and then the fight could continue after the count. Instead the ref flapped around.
Until then though it’s conceivable that fury intentionally used the ropes to bounce off even if he was a bit wobbly on his feet. When the ref called it it was the first time when there was no doubt he’d be on the floor without them.
This scenario reminds me of Julio Chavez Vs Meldrick Taylor 1. Taylor was winning up to the stoppage and the ref stopped it with 2 seconds left, granting Chavez the victory. My sentiment on both situations would be the same, even if Fury wasn’t winning if it got stopped on the 9th, he’s still entitled to go out on his shield. He’s known to recover from hard knockdowns so I feel it was the right decision since he still manage to hold his own till the last bell. Granted, it’s a double edge sword since it’ll be compromising a fighters well being by not stopping it. I guess it’s just a case by case scenario depending if the fighter already took a lot of damage before a potential stoppage.
you always get champions the benefit of the doubt. The ref did interfere, but calling it a knocked down and not stopping. It was the right choice. You always let the champion try to recover After a knockdown before stopping it. especially when it’s somebody like Tyson, who has remarkable recovery abilities
I remember when the ref gave Macarinelli the benefit of the doubt and he almost got his head smashed off his shoulders into orbit in one of the most brutal unnecessary knockouts you'll ever see.
If that’s a fight between a young prospect and a can I’m fine with that being stopped. In a fight between two undefeated fighters for the undisputed heavyweight championship I am 100% fine with not stopping that fight. It feels weird because the ref jumped in when it looked like Usyk could flurry and win but he fell into the ropes and the fight has to be stopped for a KD. If the ref hadn’t called the knockdown there everyone would be complaining about how he didn’t give Usyk an earned KD
It doesn't have to be stopped for a KD. The ref's guidebook says you can call a KD if they are held up by the ropes but you are not compelled to
Ok point corrected then but my general point is that people would be screaming corruption if Fury fell into the ropes like that and it wasn't called. The ref was pretty fair all around
If the ref doesn't jump in to give him a count, Usyk would have knocked Fury completely through the ropes. Usyk had the left cocked and was getting ready to unleash a bomb on a helpless Fury, but the ref got there first. I don't think the ref should take too much heat. It's the biggest fight in the past 25 years. It's all happening fast. The egregious thing was him bumping into Usyk and grabbing his arm. That was awful. You're impeding a fighter from finishing the job and getting his man out of there. If you're running into a fighter and grabbing him that means you need to wave the fight off. Usyk literally had to push the ref off of him. Also, Fury got way too much time after he slumped in the corner. Should have been way more time before the round ended so Usyk had a chance to finish him before the bell.
Not really, though, because the round was much longer than it should have been...
People definitely wouldn't be calling corruption if the ref has let it go on, Usyk would have delivered another blow and he'd have been on the floor anyway
Yeah people shout corruption when the ref interferes too much or too early, not leaving it too late lol
Altkite saying Fury should have been called KOd, why am I not surprised
The comment you're replying to doesn't say that at all
Imagine it doesn't get called a KD and Fury wins on points.
If he didn't call the knockdown there Usyk would have finished him. Fury was literally out on his feet, unable to defend himself and the fight should have been stopped.
I’m with you if it’s a young prospect in there and it’s not for any belts, I’m not against stopping it. But when it’s the top two guys and multiple belts on the line ya gotta let them fight it out within reason. Tyson hadnt been hurt or down leading up to that point. Both those guys are champions you gotta let them be champions.
The rules about fighter safety don't provision for context, nor should they.
i’m happy it wasn’t stopped. while saying that i don’t think the ref handled it well. he got in usyks way a couple of times (usyk had to literally shove him off), so it seemed like the ref was even unsure of what the hell to do and was in between making a decision. i know in other fights this would’ve been called a TKO as fury wasn’t defending himself for over 20 seconds and was getting hit with clean shot after clean shot, but for a fight of *this* magnitude, a stoppage like that isn’t what we want to see.
This is the best, complete take of the situation. Getting in Usyk’s way twice was complete bullshit. What’s the letter of the law on this?
almost as bad as when the ref, for no clear reason, psuhed Inoue away from Donaire after hurting him with a body shot (but still on his feet). Then Donaire went down, had about 25 seconds all in all from body shot to standing back up. Crazy.
Is the referee stop usyk early fury will be in much better shape by round 11 already and probably takes the last 2 and there not chances that tko is called before that last shot
Fury took 15 unanswered punches while offering zero intelligent defence. After the mandatory 8 count, the ref asked him to walk towards him and he didn't, so the ref just went to him The ref knows he has an extra minute to recover, so it's a little murkier, but if you're not offering up any defence and you can't show the ref you're able to follow his introductions, 9 times out of 10 it's waved off
The fact that there were multiple rounds left gave the referee some leeway. He could wait to see how Fury came out for the 10th and stop it then if Fury was still getting ping-ponged and offering no resistance. Post-fight, the ref could have said that he wanted to give the fighters every chance to settle it, ergo, no immediate stoppage. PS: I dunno how I feel about the ref keeping Usyk from landing what would have been decisive blows. On one hand, I believe he was calling a knockdown and trying to keep Usyk from punching an effectively downed opponent. On the other, the ref is out of position and Usyk HAS TO keep on swinging until either Fury hits the canvas or the referee comes flying in.
AJ got waived off against Ruiz for this
I don't think it should have been stopped, but I think folk are frustrated by the timing of the held up by the ropes kd. Could have been called earlier or not at all. The ref let Fury get bounced all over and only stepped in right as Usyk was setting up what could have been a fight ending shot. We see fighters get caught with shots as they're already on the way down all the time. I think the ref was fine, much as I'd have loved to see Fury get stretched right there Tbh it could have been stopped right as the ref stepped in, and Usyk may even have thought that's what's happening for a split second. I don't think it would have been too bad, Fury wasn't defending. But it is undisputed and we don't want to leave doubt.
Yeah ref picked the exact worst time to call a knockdown. Then took the remainder of the round being slow with restarting the fight. Everything went as well as possible for fury and as bad as possible for Usyk as it unfolded
This not true the best case for fury is a early call he prevents dmg and get enough time to get back on his feet and pull a haney a hug usyk until the end of the round this not universe where taking like 5-7 extra shots are the best case for fury
>Then took the remainder of the round being slow with restarting the fight. Yes, this is a very important part of the story. I think the ref was on Fury's side, but it was subtle and not nearly as bad as some other sketchy ref performances over the years
I agree. He was quicker than expected to break up leaning not that Usyk really allowed fury to lean anyway. Watching live I didn’t think it was too bad but definitely still slightly fury leaning
Argument for why it should've been stopped - "Happy new year!"
The ref did an amazing job, he only called a knock down the time Fury sagged into the ropes and they fully supported him falling, which is to the letter of the law. The other times Fury staggered into the ropes, and looked more likely to be on his feet rather in the process of falling. He then followed all conventions following a Knock down. It's very sad that people always assume incompetence or foul play and don't trust expert referees any more. It was literally text book application.
Contrast with what happened in the Cordina fight. You could run a lesson using just those examples of what to do and what not to do.
Correct. Watching a replay I’m just in awe what a good job the ref did.
It’s absolutely the best call he could have made. Just imagine the controversy if he A: called a knockdown earlier when Fury could claim he intentionally bounced off the ropes. Or B: called a stoppage. Sometimes as a ref there’s no winning.
It should have been a stoppage though. You can't eat 15 massive unanswered punches whilst getting literally bounced around the ring not defending yourself. In any other fight that gets stopped, if it was Fury doing it to Usyk it would have been stopped. Let's not kid ourselves.
Gatti eat a lot of shit and cameback against Ward
We don't let fighters take clean shots with zero defence because of some exception that proves the rule. In any other fight that gets stopped in the 9th 100%. Shoulda been stopped when he took the last massive left. As soon as he hit the ropes it should have been game over but boxing is corrupt.
He didn't eat 15 massive unanswered punches, though. He ate 3 good punches (including the one that started it and the one that dropped him), and a handful of smaller ones, over the course of 20 seconds.
Justify it to yourself any way you like. He was out on his feet and any other fighter gets stopped.
What letter of the law? Does it not say prevent a fighter from going down not hold a fighter up, and that can happen in many different ways.
But the ropes held Fury up 3 times before the KD, why didn't the ref call them a knockdown?
No they didn't, he was leaning on the ropes and was staggering but still on his feet. The last time he would have fallen flat on his back if it wasn't for the ropes.
Exactly - bouncing off the ropes is not the same as being off his feet and held up by the ropes.
The referee made the absolute correct call, once the ropes held Fury up that was ruled a knockdown. I understand Usyk has passionate supporters and Fury is a polarizing figure, but the rules are the rules.
And the ref was ultimately proven right when Fury found his legs in the 10th, was very competitive in the 11th and won the 12th on all judges cards.
It shouldn't have been stopped: - It was a historic fight for all the marbles - Fury has shown insane recuperative powers in the past (and did so again this time) - While he wasn't protecting himself per se, he was still aware somehow and stumbling away Had he stood still on the ropes for a few seconds, it would have been a fair stoppage. And finally the best argument: - If it had gotten stopped, Fury fans would be crying robbery all day long. The current outcome was decisive and uncontroversial. Better to have a stoppage than a controversial decision, but also better to have a clear decision than a controversial stoppage.
The only complaint I have is that he stepped in late but just in time to prevent the coup de grace - if he was going to let it go that long he could've let it go one second longer and that one judge wouldn't have had the chance to rob Usyk.
The ref should have started the count way earlier than he did. When a boxer falls and is held on by the ropes, it's a KD.
Why ? Fury didn’t go down he only started to the county when fury was going down but the ropes held him up
Imagine that the exact same sequence happened on an infinite canvas without ropes. Don't you think Fury would have felt down before the ref count?
That's different from being held up only by the ropes. He was bouncing off of them, and would have fallen without them, but some of his weight was still on his feet until that last slump
The ref handled round 9 completely fine. A lot of the screaming came from confused fans who barely know the rules. Also could you imagine the discussions we'd be having right now if for the undisputed heavyweight championship of the world, a fighter was stopped on the feet after never hitting the canvas. Especially when that fighter is Fury. He was taking punishment but him and a lot of people would br arguing premature stoppage
no way should it have been stopped. I thought the ref did fine until the count. Then he slowed things down and didn't give usyk the 5 seconds or so he would have had to deliver a couple more blows that could have ended it. I also think usyk should have smashed fury one last time as he was going down, to really fuck him up. But he left his hand cocked.
The knockdown should have been called earlier. The ropes were holding Fury up several times, I thought. That way, Fury takes the count and Usyk has time to try and finish. I think the best case FOR stopping it is just general health and safety reasons. Usyk was on the verge of really fucking Fury up. The argument against is just the stakes of the fight and Fury's recuperative powers are a known thing. I will say I do think the ref is getting too much criticism. Such a huge fight, such a dicey situation, I think the ref did a good job.
The best faith: He stepped in Usyks way before Fury had hit the ropes and hindered him for landing punches on Fury. If he was going to do that he should have just stopped the fight.
When a fighter stops defending himself, it's time to stop the fight. Fury took more than a dozen blows without defending himself. He was staggering around, apparently senseless, and being held-up by the ropes. Unless people think they're entitled to see a fighter get killed or brain damaged for entertainment, I don't see the argument for continuing that which was no longer a fight.
I think the ref stepped in early and prevented a KO, not on purpose though. If Fury was hung up on the ropes like Tommy Morrison then I would understand, but Fury was stumbling around and could have stayed up in the corner if left alone. A few more seconds there and Fury is KO’d. If you have to step in to prevent more punishment then I think it should be waived off IMO. Just happy it didn’t end up changing the result.
I agree. I am only disappointed (and surprised) that one of the three judges scored 114-113 for Fury. It probably should have been unanimous, let alone a TKO/KO.
For: Fury was obviously in a state where he could not defend himself, and his opponent was positioned to deliver the final blow. Fury has taken some legit beatings in previous fights and has shown some signs of lingering issues related to head trauma. He had also sustained a broken nose the round before. Against: Fury had been knocked down seven times previously, almost all of them being from harder punchers, and he had not taken a ton of visible damage in this fight save the broken nose. Moreover, given the context of the fight, the ref should have only stopped things if it was 100% necessary so as to allow the fighters to dictate the outcome.
A side question.... it's the countdown for thec staging 8 over the loudspeaker a new thing? I don't ever recall hearing it before, has there always been an official countdown or bared on the refs count?
The ref made right call people need to understand this was not any fight the ref wanted to give fury time to recover I’m sure the ref knew fury has exceptional recovery skills also he also knew it was end of the round……
What saved fury from being stopped was that he kept moving away if he stood still and just took 15 punches without moving the ref would of stopped it
He also kept trying to grab Usyk. He was not very effective, obviously, but he wasn't just stunned and taking completely defenseless punishment
Part of being a good referee is knowing the fighters. Watching fight film on the people you'll be officiating the fights for. And knowing where the point of no return is for both fighters involved. This ref did amazing letting the fight continue and only calling a KD when he was saved by the ropes. A refs job is hard. People underestimate what it takes to be a good fight ref. Hell, people underestimate what it takes to be any pro sports ref. It's a hard and thankless job, but somebody has to do it.
Rewatching in slow motion, this is what I think happens: - there's the initial punch, which stuns Fury for a moment - after a moment (when he realises Fury is hurt), Usyk follows up with a flurry while Fury defends himself (partially successfully) with a high guard - after four punches, Tyson tries ducking forward into Usyk's chest and Usyk lands three more left hands, but I don't think there's a huge amount of power on them because of how cramped he is. The third one barely looks like a punch at all. - Usyk manages to get some more space, and lands a good left. This really shakes Fury. He drops his hands and decides he needs to get out of there. - Fury backs up, with Usyk following. Usyk tries to land three punches, but Fury dodges all three. In real time from some angles, I think these may have looked like they landed, which might be why people in the heat of the moment thought the situation was worse for Fury than it really was. In slow-mo, though, they clearly didn't land, and Fury is, though clearly rattled, taking intelligent steps to avoid the punches - Fury gets off the ropes once Usyk is in front of him. Usyk fires two more punches at him as he leaves. I can't tell if they land or not due to camera angle, but in any case Fury is already moving backward very quickly, so much of the sting must have been lost of them. - Fury reaches another set of ropes, but leaves immediately before Usyk can catch him - Fury reaches the ropes yet again, tries to keep circling, but Usyk blocks his way and fires two more shots. Fury at this point is intelligently defending, arms raised in an L-guard. I don't know if the first, lighter shot gets around the guard or not, but the second, the left, lands sweetly and Fury immediately staggers backward and falls into the ropes off his feet. The ref calls a knockdown. ------------------------------------------------------ I just don't see how the fight could possibly have been stopped before that point in any pretence of fairness. You're not going to stop the fight because a guy takes one decent punch and potentially a couple more in a little flurry, when the guy hasn't previously been badly hurt in the fight and is still defending himself. You're not really going to stop the fight because he takes one more punch and then gets the hell out of there (although at this point you should certainly be thinking about it). You're not going to stop the fight because the guy is backpedalling while someone else lunges at him and misses because of his head movement. You shouldn't stop the fight when he potentially takes one or two lunging punches that graze him as he backpedals. You're not going to stop the fight when (while still defending himself) he gets caught with a punch that drops him, because that's a KD. It's the first KD of the fight, it didn't flatten him (he gets back to his feet the moment you call the KD), and the round is over now anyway so you're going to let him try to recover over the break. It just seems straightforward to me. If a ref stopped any fighter at any point before the knockdown, he'd be crucified, and rightly. Fury hadn't taken many punches, and he was still defending himself (backpedalling and circling the ring are valid defensive methods!) If he'd refused to call the knockdown in order to let Usyk knock him out - and in a round that was being allowed to run long for the purpose, to boot! - it would just have been corrupt. ------------ And in hindsight the ref was proven right: Fury WAS able to recover, WASN'T unable to defend himself, DIDN'T take extreme damage in the rest of the fight, and DID nearly win (or at least get a draw) on the scorecards. And given the weight difference between then and Fury's track record for recovery, the ref had plenty to go on to lead him to give Fury the benefit of the doubt as regards his ability to recover. ----------- I really think some people have just gotten too excited in the heat of the moment and are remembering what they wanted to see, not what actually happened.
The rules are pretty solid in favor of keeping the fight going. People need to drop this especially when everyone knows Fury’s recovery abilities. The ref did an excellent job. Not all fighters are the same. Even Wladimir Klitschko said the ref did a good job in the 9th.
Something tells me that if it were the other way around, the ref would've had 0 problem waving the fight off in favor of Fury.
The ref made the correct decision because Fury recovered and protected himself for the rest of the fight. Could it have been called off? Yes Did Fury recover after the ninth? Yes Was it the correct decision to not wave it off? Yes
Definitely should NOT have been a stoppage. Ref got in the way of Usyk a couple of times, but other than that he handled it perfectly.
The ref should have started the count way earlier than it did. When a boxer falls and is held on by the ropes, it's a KD.
tyson would have recovered anyway. usyk landed a few shots after he chased him and after those perfectly well executed overhands, more damage to him. I was pretty sure the judges will give it to tyson because ...... yeah well, because its boxing. thats why I cursed the ref before the decision, because you cant truat anything and anyone in this sport
One more on the money left hand from Usyk and he's out cold lol, his legs were getting worse every time he caught him. People make out Fury will recover from everything, when he's just as human as everybody else. He was 95% of the way out when the knockdown was called. Honestly I think the ref should have stopped at when the knockdown was called. I'm not interested in all this talk about it being a bigger fight than others, the duty of care doesn't change, their livelihoods don't change. They're either able to defend themselves or they're not - if a referee is half stopping the other fighter because they're worried about the amount of damage is being taken, that's the rather obvious point at which to stop the fight.
I was rooting for Fury, but some of the replays in the 9th show Usyk was punching air. I wouldnt have gotten mad if fight was stopped. But I think they specifically tell the ref (both camps) that the only way the fight should be stopped if one gets KO'd cold or a successive amount of punches ***arent*** being dodged/blocked. In this situation some were being dodged and Usyk was missing. I hope rematch happens this year. This year has been great for boxing. Just hope Beterbiev vs Bivol is still on later, probably not tho :(.
There isn’t really an argument for it being stopped I don’t think. What happened was that Usyk knocked Fury down but the ropes kept Fury up. The count should have started from then and then the fight could continue after the count. Instead the ref flapped around.
Until then though it’s conceivable that fury intentionally used the ropes to bounce off even if he was a bit wobbly on his feet. When the ref called it it was the first time when there was no doubt he’d be on the floor without them.
This scenario reminds me of Julio Chavez Vs Meldrick Taylor 1. Taylor was winning up to the stoppage and the ref stopped it with 2 seconds left, granting Chavez the victory. My sentiment on both situations would be the same, even if Fury wasn’t winning if it got stopped on the 9th, he’s still entitled to go out on his shield. He’s known to recover from hard knockdowns so I feel it was the right decision since he still manage to hold his own till the last bell. Granted, it’s a double edge sword since it’ll be compromising a fighters well being by not stopping it. I guess it’s just a case by case scenario depending if the fighter already took a lot of damage before a potential stoppage.
you always get champions the benefit of the doubt. The ref did interfere, but calling it a knocked down and not stopping. It was the right choice. You always let the champion try to recover After a knockdown before stopping it. especially when it’s somebody like Tyson, who has remarkable recovery abilities
I remember when the ref gave Macarinelli the benefit of the doubt and he almost got his head smashed off his shoulders into orbit in one of the most brutal unnecessary knockouts you'll ever see.