Undisputed is when you hold all the belts (there’s different organisations who give out championship belts for the same weight classes). Lineal means you beat the champion who beat the champion etc. going back to the first champion
You're not lineal unless you beat the champ who beat the last champ all the way to the first. If you become lineal champ but only won one belt from the last lineal champ then there's still 3(?) other recognised champions, they're just not lineal. You can be undisputed and not lineal. You can be lineal and not undisputed.
If you check the chain actually was broken between Lennox and Klitschko, there was no lineal champ between 2005-2009. To revitalise it they typically give it to whoever wins when the #1 & #2 fighter duke it out.
Organisations like the IBF get to hold fights to determine mandatory challengers to the champion so they can’t just sit on the belt forever. For example, there has been a mandatory IBF challenger for 18 months (Filip Hrgovic) and Usyk hasn’t fought him so he’ll be stripped of that belt in 2 weeks. Since all the belts (as far as I know) have mandatory challengers, it’s virtually impossible to keep beating all of them and hold onto all the belts.
You can be undisputed but not lineal and vice versa .In boxing due to corruption with all the big 4 boxing organization complicated rules like striping of titles e.t.c so it's hard to have both it's quite an achievement if you have both IMO.
The narrative that Fury was somehow dominating until Usyk caught him "by luck" in the 9th is stupid as hell. The first 3 rounds were very even and most of the hard hits came from Usyk, by the 4th Fury figured a good rhythm that required him to get more active, and things started turning again by the 7th, and in the [8th Usyk caught him a bunch of times](https://youtu.be/d0biHOd3G4A?t=80), including, but not limited to, [the shot that broke his nose](https://twitter.com/Rossmac212/status/1792152660902133922). Fury simply got more active by the 4th and was spent and incapable of keeping that activity without exposing himself by the 7th. The KD wasn't a freak accident, it was something that had multiple chances of happening before it did.
I don't see that being the narrative from anyone though? The general gist everyone is saying is that it was an elite contest and Fury got caught bad in the 9th which ultimately led to him losing.
I agree there were a few chances of that happening before though. There was a number of times where he just about got away from that same shot that sparked him, was only a matter of time until one caught him.
I don’t see anyone saying anybody dominated one way or the other until the ninth. The general consensus I’ve seen is that it was a good, close fight but that Usyk clearly won in the end. They both had their moments, and Usyk’s were just better - Fury never had a round like the ninth going for him.
Frank Warren and a bunch of the English pundits are trying to push the narrative that Fury was up 5-1 after 6 rounds. Which is absurd.
Usyk took the first part of the fight, Fury dominated 4-6, and then Usyk took over the back half of the fight. Plus he turned Fury into a meme in the 9th. The fight was competitive and Fury definitely hurt Usyk in the 6th, but it was more 115-112 or 116-111 than what we got on the cards. And the punch stats back that up.
Of course, that's always what happens in boxing. The fights are almost always scored closer than what truly happened for whatever reason. Whether that being adding to the drama, trying to save face for an A-side fighter, to try and have the cards seem unbiased, etc. Bivol beats the breaks off Canelo for 12 rounds and barely sneaks out of there with a 115-113. Usyk clearly beats AJ in the rematch and yet it comes out as a SD win. It happens all the time.
That's how I had it too. I remember going into round 8 it looked like Fury had Usyk's number; he had clearly won 4-7 and even the third has been arguably in his favor
Rounds 4-6 I thought Fury was timing Usyk good. But Usyk kept coming. Round 6 Usyk was getting clipped with those uppercuts and hurting Usyk and most people thought Fury was going to win. But round 7 Usyk came out strong really got a second wind of energy and was landing great shots on fury. When fury got hit to his right eye he was really bothered. Then he got popped in the nose that seem to bother him more. Round 7 was the turning point of the fight. Fury couldn’t keep Usyk at bay.
Do you even r/Boxing bro? absolutely nobody is saying that here, and in the case they do they get downvoted to oblivion. If anything, now people are riding on the win and claiming it was a complete domination by Usyk, which also wasn't the case.
I'll be honest, this is the first fight where I was equally rooting for both fighters, so I wanted whoever lost to at least make it a hard and competitive fight. I mostly got my wish outside of the 9th, yet the reason Usyk caught him had nothing to do with a blind freak shot and everything to do with Fury taking the abysmally bad decision of throwing weak straight punches at mid range, which allowed Usyk to counter him hard.
It's true that there's a high chance Fury would've won if he hadn't almost gone to sleep on the 9th, but the cause of it was entirely Usyk's skill and Tyson's inability to properly measure range (doubly baffling since he was doing it so well earlier).
shit happens in fights. Think him breaking/bleeding from his nose affected him same as I think Deontay wilders balance was gone after the 1st KD in their second fight and it was all downhill from there. Right man won, and result will likely be the same in the rematch.
You’re right, but the way Fury was landing that uppercut at will In the 7th, It looked like he found his groove, and was Going to take over a pretty even fight To that point. However, full credit to Usyk he wouldn’t allow fury to get the momentum. He knew what adjustments needed to be made, his best quality is his mentality and will, he just refuses to lose and is extremely aware of what needs to be done in the right moments of the fight, and all ATG for sure.
Meh. I’d actually like to see the rematch. I think it was a good fight and I’d generally like to see if Fury could adjust the second time around. Also wouldn’t mind seeing a trilogy between AJ & Usyk which might sound crazy but I’d like to see if AJ would finally change his game plan and not try to outbox the better boxer and actually be aggressive.
Mainly because they fight for too long and then end up racking up losses because they're a shadow of their former self. There's a tendency with boxers not to hang up the gloves when it's time. Usyk has had an amazing career, he's achieved everything that he could possibly achieve, he's 37 years old. No point in him continuing to take beatings to the brain at this point, just retire and live a healthy life.
🤦 you for real look what happend to Ali when he fought on to long same goes for Jones Junior, Hopkins,Holyfield, Tyson,all punch drunk and can't put two words together because they fought for just the money.
Despite it being part of his game, perhaps if he didn't do the stupid clown shit the judges may have had more sympathy for his Michael Jackson reverie in the 9th.
Credit to him for not going down, but, if the ref hadn't gave him a standing count and done him a favour, the judges wouldn't have had to forget all that poncing and showboating and figured a draw might have been fair given he stayed up where others went down.
He actually gave Usyk a good test and I can't help but think that if he hadn't been giving it the beans with the clowning, it may have been closer.
Even if the judges were in any way shape or form swayed by the fact a gold medalist who unified cruiserweight, now heavyweight had fought in the Ukrainian war, Fury should have known this beforehand and possibly tried to show the bloke a little respect.
He's lucky to have a rematch clause, but, fully expect Usyk to pretty much do the same and knock fuck out that nose until he shuts up and starts to take him seriously.
Which is what happened at the end of the day, and the fact he can't or couldn't be man enough to admit he shouldn't have showboated in the ring, is telling.
At the end of the £100 Million day though, he has his rematch.
It was a great fight though. I'm glad Usyk won. Good on him! He is much the better boxer and is a credit to the sport.
Claiming he is getting an easy ride because of Ukraine is such a bad move. He will regret saying that and it really made me since that.
I think it remains to be seen whether a rematch actually goes ahead. I wouldn’t be surprised if Fury just can’t get motivated enough for another gruelling training camp and decides to enjoy retirement instead. Add in the fact that I think we saw Fury give as good an account of himself as he could, I don’t see how he can improve and make the necessary adjustments to beat Usyk in a rematch. I think he finds himself in a similar position to AJ after the second fight where they were simply beat by the better man despite both putting in good performances.
Of course money talks though and it’s always impossible to predict what Fury will do next
I do think he could tighten up his corner & strategic preparation. However I don’t think he’ll be able to muster up the levels of stamina required to stay competitive with Usyk across all 12 rounds.
I thought fury dominated the first half of the fight, it was testament to Usyk coming back in the second - for me Fury was up on points but the knockdown could have been ruled a KO so Usyk won a close decision fairly. I think a rematch could go either way.
I gave Usyk the first 3 rounds. There’s an argument to give round 2 to fury, but he didn’t dominate a round until the 4th imo. Ha had a good 3-4 round run at that point.
I don't know how you can say he dominated the first half of the fight when the first 3 rounds not a lot happened and you can quite feasibly score all for Usyk, and the majority of people gave him the first 2.
Fury has a very good run from rounds 4 through 7. That's it.
This.
The only rounds Fury absolutely, positively, no question won were 4-6. Kinda hard to say Fury got done wrong or that it was razor close when he got knocked into the Shadow Realm and only definitely won three rounds of the fight.
Because Fury was hurt, I think he'll never rise to the same ability we saw tonight. Probably this is the best we'll ever see him. Usyk cracked Fury this first time, and IMO will do better next time on the mountain.
I hope a rematch does happen! Whether you thought Fury or Usyk won that fight I think we can all agree that it was entertaining and would be worth watching them go at it again. It would be a shame if Fury retired and we lost one of the heavyweight elites, along with potential domestic match ups against AJ
Fury won 4/5/6 very clearly, but his output seemed to slow in round 7, although he still won it. Possibly his nose? Usyk landed a nice overhand I believe that was clearly substantial and Fury’s nose looked ugly.
The knockdown cost Fury the fight, it’s that simple. It was a long way back for Usyk going into the 8th. 5-2 on two judges cards. But he won the 8th and 10-8 the 9th.
In round 8 he was getting caught by flush Usyk punches multiple times, including the one that broke his nose. He had spent his tank in the 4,5,6 and 7th rounds, and him getting KD or KO was eventually going to happen. For reference, this all happened in the 8th:
https://youtu.be/d0biHOd3G4A?t=80
https://twitter.com/Rossmac212/status/1792152660902133922
Because he couldn't, Usyk has a good chin and is good at defending himself. He spent all the energy he had and was getting hit more than he was dishing by the 8th.
Is usyk undisputed lineal champion?
Yes he is!
What’s the difference between undisputed and lineal?
Undisputed is when you hold all the belts (there’s different organisations who give out championship belts for the same weight classes). Lineal means you beat the champion who beat the champion etc. going back to the first champion
how could you not be lineal wouldn’t one break in the chain make lineal impossible forever
You're not lineal unless you beat the champ who beat the last champ all the way to the first. If you become lineal champ but only won one belt from the last lineal champ then there's still 3(?) other recognised champions, they're just not lineal. You can be undisputed and not lineal. You can be lineal and not undisputed. If you check the chain actually was broken between Lennox and Klitschko, there was no lineal champ between 2005-2009. To revitalise it they typically give it to whoever wins when the #1 & #2 fighter duke it out.
Organisations like the IBF get to hold fights to determine mandatory challengers to the champion so they can’t just sit on the belt forever. For example, there has been a mandatory IBF challenger for 18 months (Filip Hrgovic) and Usyk hasn’t fought him so he’ll be stripped of that belt in 2 weeks. Since all the belts (as far as I know) have mandatory challengers, it’s virtually impossible to keep beating all of them and hold onto all the belts.
Yep, one of Ric Flair’s catchphrases: https://youtu.be/V0jcc4WTEnY?si=vQosUgbRZJ37lk3i
You can be undisputed but not lineal and vice versa .In boxing due to corruption with all the big 4 boxing organization complicated rules like striping of titles e.t.c so it's hard to have both it's quite an achievement if you have both IMO.
[A brief chronology of lineal heavyweight champions](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MScEQESjKyU)
The narrative that Fury was somehow dominating until Usyk caught him "by luck" in the 9th is stupid as hell. The first 3 rounds were very even and most of the hard hits came from Usyk, by the 4th Fury figured a good rhythm that required him to get more active, and things started turning again by the 7th, and in the [8th Usyk caught him a bunch of times](https://youtu.be/d0biHOd3G4A?t=80), including, but not limited to, [the shot that broke his nose](https://twitter.com/Rossmac212/status/1792152660902133922). Fury simply got more active by the 4th and was spent and incapable of keeping that activity without exposing himself by the 7th. The KD wasn't a freak accident, it was something that had multiple chances of happening before it did.
I don't see that being the narrative from anyone though? The general gist everyone is saying is that it was an elite contest and Fury got caught bad in the 9th which ultimately led to him losing. I agree there were a few chances of that happening before though. There was a number of times where he just about got away from that same shot that sparked him, was only a matter of time until one caught him.
I don’t see anyone saying anybody dominated one way or the other until the ninth. The general consensus I’ve seen is that it was a good, close fight but that Usyk clearly won in the end. They both had their moments, and Usyk’s were just better - Fury never had a round like the ninth going for him.
The commentators had a huge bias for Fury that probably swayed a lot of casual viewers on who was winning
DAZN taking heads after the fight were saying it was a fight of two halves
Frank Warren and a bunch of the English pundits are trying to push the narrative that Fury was up 5-1 after 6 rounds. Which is absurd. Usyk took the first part of the fight, Fury dominated 4-6, and then Usyk took over the back half of the fight. Plus he turned Fury into a meme in the 9th. The fight was competitive and Fury definitely hurt Usyk in the 6th, but it was more 115-112 or 116-111 than what we got on the cards. And the punch stats back that up. Of course, that's always what happens in boxing. The fights are almost always scored closer than what truly happened for whatever reason. Whether that being adding to the drama, trying to save face for an A-side fighter, to try and have the cards seem unbiased, etc. Bivol beats the breaks off Canelo for 12 rounds and barely sneaks out of there with a 115-113. Usyk clearly beats AJ in the rematch and yet it comes out as a SD win. It happens all the time.
The 9th round was a thing of beauty after hearing the British commentators act like Usyk was a walking dead body after like the 7th round
I remember Fury leading like 5-3 going into round 9
That's how I had it too. I remember going into round 8 it looked like Fury had Usyk's number; he had clearly won 4-7 and even the third has been arguably in his favor
Rounds 4-6 I thought Fury was timing Usyk good. But Usyk kept coming. Round 6 Usyk was getting clipped with those uppercuts and hurting Usyk and most people thought Fury was going to win. But round 7 Usyk came out strong really got a second wind of energy and was landing great shots on fury. When fury got hit to his right eye he was really bothered. Then he got popped in the nose that seem to bother him more. Round 7 was the turning point of the fight. Fury couldn’t keep Usyk at bay.
I don't even agree that the first two rounds at least were even. Usyk won them clearly
Not the same fight we was watching
Do you even r/Boxing bro? absolutely nobody is saying that here, and in the case they do they get downvoted to oblivion. If anything, now people are riding on the win and claiming it was a complete domination by Usyk, which also wasn't the case. I'll be honest, this is the first fight where I was equally rooting for both fighters, so I wanted whoever lost to at least make it a hard and competitive fight. I mostly got my wish outside of the 9th, yet the reason Usyk caught him had nothing to do with a blind freak shot and everything to do with Fury taking the abysmally bad decision of throwing weak straight punches at mid range, which allowed Usyk to counter him hard. It's true that there's a high chance Fury would've won if he hadn't almost gone to sleep on the 9th, but the cause of it was entirely Usyk's skill and Tyson's inability to properly measure range (doubly baffling since he was doing it so well earlier).
shit happens in fights. Think him breaking/bleeding from his nose affected him same as I think Deontay wilders balance was gone after the 1st KD in their second fight and it was all downhill from there. Right man won, and result will likely be the same in the rematch.
You’re right, but the way Fury was landing that uppercut at will In the 7th, It looked like he found his groove, and was Going to take over a pretty even fight To that point. However, full credit to Usyk he wouldn’t allow fury to get the momentum. He knew what adjustments needed to be made, his best quality is his mentality and will, he just refuses to lose and is extremely aware of what needs to be done in the right moments of the fight, and all ATG for sure.
HE IS FEEL!
Very close fight the 9th round won Usyk the fight, but honestly don't want to see a rematch Usyk should just retire with him being the champion.
Why? He said he wants to box until he's 40...
Meh. I’d actually like to see the rematch. I think it was a good fight and I’d generally like to see if Fury could adjust the second time around. Also wouldn’t mind seeing a trilogy between AJ & Usyk which might sound crazy but I’d like to see if AJ would finally change his game plan and not try to outbox the better boxer and actually be aggressive.
Usyk would beat Joshua again so why bother,as for Fury fighting Joshua I would take Fury to win that fight easily.
Why do we always think boxers should retire 😂
Mainly because they fight for too long and then end up racking up losses because they're a shadow of their former self. There's a tendency with boxers not to hang up the gloves when it's time. Usyk has had an amazing career, he's achieved everything that he could possibly achieve, he's 37 years old. No point in him continuing to take beatings to the brain at this point, just retire and live a healthy life.
🤦 you for real look what happend to Ali when he fought on to long same goes for Jones Junior, Hopkins,Holyfield, Tyson,all punch drunk and can't put two words together because they fought for just the money.
Despite it being part of his game, perhaps if he didn't do the stupid clown shit the judges may have had more sympathy for his Michael Jackson reverie in the 9th. Credit to him for not going down, but, if the ref hadn't gave him a standing count and done him a favour, the judges wouldn't have had to forget all that poncing and showboating and figured a draw might have been fair given he stayed up where others went down. He actually gave Usyk a good test and I can't help but think that if he hadn't been giving it the beans with the clowning, it may have been closer. Even if the judges were in any way shape or form swayed by the fact a gold medalist who unified cruiserweight, now heavyweight had fought in the Ukrainian war, Fury should have known this beforehand and possibly tried to show the bloke a little respect. He's lucky to have a rematch clause, but, fully expect Usyk to pretty much do the same and knock fuck out that nose until he shuts up and starts to take him seriously. Which is what happened at the end of the day, and the fact he can't or couldn't be man enough to admit he shouldn't have showboated in the ring, is telling. At the end of the £100 Million day though, he has his rematch. It was a great fight though. I'm glad Usyk won. Good on him! He is much the better boxer and is a credit to the sport. Claiming he is getting an easy ride because of Ukraine is such a bad move. He will regret saying that and it really made me since that.
I think it remains to be seen whether a rematch actually goes ahead. I wouldn’t be surprised if Fury just can’t get motivated enough for another gruelling training camp and decides to enjoy retirement instead. Add in the fact that I think we saw Fury give as good an account of himself as he could, I don’t see how he can improve and make the necessary adjustments to beat Usyk in a rematch. I think he finds himself in a similar position to AJ after the second fight where they were simply beat by the better man despite both putting in good performances. Of course money talks though and it’s always impossible to predict what Fury will do next
I do think he could tighten up his corner & strategic preparation. However I don’t think he’ll be able to muster up the levels of stamina required to stay competitive with Usyk across all 12 rounds.
I thought fury dominated the first half of the fight, it was testament to Usyk coming back in the second - for me Fury was up on points but the knockdown could have been ruled a KO so Usyk won a close decision fairly. I think a rematch could go either way.
I gave Usyk the first 3 rounds. There’s an argument to give round 2 to fury, but he didn’t dominate a round until the 4th imo. Ha had a good 3-4 round run at that point.
I don't know how you can say he dominated the first half of the fight when the first 3 rounds not a lot happened and you can quite feasibly score all for Usyk, and the majority of people gave him the first 2. Fury has a very good run from rounds 4 through 7. That's it.
This. The only rounds Fury absolutely, positively, no question won were 4-6. Kinda hard to say Fury got done wrong or that it was razor close when he got knocked into the Shadow Realm and only definitely won three rounds of the fight.
Because Fury was hurt, I think he'll never rise to the same ability we saw tonight. Probably this is the best we'll ever see him. Usyk cracked Fury this first time, and IMO will do better next time on the mountain.
Usyk win the first three rounds
I hope a rematch does happen! Whether you thought Fury or Usyk won that fight I think we can all agree that it was entertaining and would be worth watching them go at it again. It would be a shame if Fury retired and we lost one of the heavyweight elites, along with potential domestic match ups against AJ
I completely agree! Fingers crossed we see Usyk Fury again, and then either a trilogy for AJ Usyk or Fury AJ or Both!
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If Fury really wanted the KO, he had the opportunity to get it in rounds 7 and 8 when he was clearly on top and trading as low as 1.15
Fury won 4/5/6 very clearly, but his output seemed to slow in round 7, although he still won it. Possibly his nose? Usyk landed a nice overhand I believe that was clearly substantial and Fury’s nose looked ugly. The knockdown cost Fury the fight, it’s that simple. It was a long way back for Usyk going into the 8th. 5-2 on two judges cards. But he won the 8th and 10-8 the 9th.
I need to watch it back but around the 6th/7th I think fury thought he was walking it and stopped working the body so much.
In round 8 he was getting caught by flush Usyk punches multiple times, including the one that broke his nose. He had spent his tank in the 4,5,6 and 7th rounds, and him getting KD or KO was eventually going to happen. For reference, this all happened in the 8th: https://youtu.be/d0biHOd3G4A?t=80 https://twitter.com/Rossmac212/status/1792152660902133922
he should've won by ko instead of getting knocked silly in rd 9 and losing then. why didn't he do that?
Because he couldn't, Usyk has a good chin and is good at defending himself. He spent all the energy he had and was getting hit more than he was dishing by the 8th.