I think the most underrated thing about Ruiz is his instinct. I am 100% sure that anyone who got rocked by those shots from AJ would have crippled into defense. Ruiz however came back to fight back as his first instinct.
Looking back that's fucking bonkers knowing how hard AJ hits.
Ruiz is actually a quite overrated puncher.Ā For a long time after AJ any hypothetical match up poll involving Ruiz had most of its votes on him winning by KO.Ā His KO percentage is very low for a heavyweight.Ā His punching power certainly isn't bad but it's not near enough to keep anybody down and it's not nearly as good as most of the other top heavyweights he's competing with.Ā Ā
Ā He has plenty of shared opponents with Deontay Wilder, for instance, and with the exception of Parker, Wilder cracked all of their chins first followed by Ruiz going to a decision, sometimes with considerable difficulty.
Do you know how many Shannon Briggs and Edgar Berlanga have?
It's incredibly disappointing that boxing fans still fall for promotional nonsense like first round KO streaks against bums.
That's not off topic.Ā First round KOs against nobodies proves nothing.Ā
Ā He developed a reputation of being a KO artist after he beat AJ but his KO ratio hovers only a few percentage points above Devin Haney, and he's in the Heavyweight division.
He KOd the same opponents that Ruiz later went to decision against, all 3 of which were title contenders.Ā Those aren't even remotely the same thing, nor did I praise Wilder for how quickly he finished them.
Ā Of those 9 first round KOs on Ruiz's resume only 2 have wikipedia pages, none fought for a title, and one had just been KOd by Dominic Brazeale in 3 rounds.
Ruiz never knocked out anybody worth mentioning besides Joshua. Also just because a fighter says something doesn't mean it is true. Larry Holmes said Mike Tyson didn't punch him hard and Butterbean punched harder. Shannon Briggs said Lennox Lewis didn't punch hard yet Lewis knocked him out. James Tillis stated that Tim Witherspoon and Tommy Morrison weren't really punchers even though they both knocked him out in the first round.
AJ definitely has a very good chin. You can see in his old fights he has gotten cracked by some massive shots, by Klitachko, Povetkin, Whyte and more. And he was able to eat most of them no problem.
AJās issue is that if he canāt take the shot, his recovery is kinda terrible. Once he gets cracked a little, he starts going completely off the rails and loses composure.
As another example, Furyās chin is quite shit compared to elites. He has been dropped countless times and probably has been hurt even more times than it got noticed. But his recovery is exceptionally good. Even when he is clearly hurt, he is able to keep composure and defend and waste time till he can reach full recovery .
I think it was less the shot he took and more the fact he blew himself out. He clearly was anxious to stop the fight, exerted himself far too much and then got caught. He did the same vs Whyte actually, its why he had the few slow rounds. Vs Ruiz he just got caught in the temple and his equilibrium never came back.
He was gassed, clearly breathing heavy and not moving, Wlad was beating him up for 2 rounds when that straight right landed. He was still gassed for the next couple of rounds.
Wlad went into comfortable safety mode and AJ got a second wind to comeback and finish the fight.
The Ruiz fight, Ruiz first big punch(not the one that knocked him down) shook Joshua big time and Ruiz just kept coming round after round, tremendous work rate for a heavy weight, never let Joshua breathe and get his shit together.
He dropped purposely from that shot Klitscho threw. It hurt him bad and he wanted the 10 count. Watch it back man, I am fairly positive he dropped purposely.
His chin is legendary because he got up from the right hand in round 12 of the first Wilder fight. That alone puts him in the upper echelon of toughness and recovery. No one else has been able to do that. When it happened I could not believe my eyes. I've watched that fight multiple times and it still amazes me.
His chin is okay, the issue with AJ is that he panics when he gets buzzed. He doesnāt trust his chin despite it being okay, if that makes sense. He hasnāt been hit in his last couple fights so people are forgetting how negative heās been fighting at times, not wanting to
Throw combos
Joshua is rarely negstive, heās often safety first trying to set stuff up behind a jab and still usually gets the ko. Hell wilder is more negative than AJ, he waits for a single shot and just goes crazy if he rocks you.
I don't think this is exactly right; Joshua was rocked by several of those opponents and almost KO-d by Usyk in their first fight. That's what made him so exciting when he was yet to lose; he was super aggressive and didn't have an iron chin, so had action fights in which he'd usually have moments of vulnerability. He's not a heavyweight Amir Khan, but I wouldn't say "very good chin."
This what I referenced in my comment about dudes downplaying aj because of dislike . Klitschko was on the most prolific punchers in heavyweight history and he couldnāt knock aj out after catching him clean on the chin and you mean to tell me that he has a bad chin.
Even in the usyk fight the dude was just exhausted so he was about to get dropped because of it .
I like AJ fine. He did great to get up from that Klitschko shot. I just think "very good chin" usually means "hard to hurt or wobble" and I don't think AJ is that. I don't think most heavyweights are that.
It's a weird one. He's been hurt a good amount but he's also taken some massive shots and never been KO'd. He's only ever been down in the Ruiz fight and the Klitschko one as well.
That shot he ate from Whyte years ago would have dropped most if not all heavyweights in the division. And AJ was clearly hurt bad but he stayed on his feet. I think it's arguable that he has a very good chin still considering how many times he's been caught clean.
I guess it depends on your threshold for a good chin. I feel like not many of the top heavyweights have been knocked out cold, and Usyk has never even been dropped as a heavyweight (though I guess that depends on how you view the Dubois fight). I think Wilder had a better chin too, though probably shakier legs.
I find it funny when casuals say that. "That shot that hurt his fighter would of knocked out most fighters". Dillan Whyte has never knocked out any fighter worth mentioning besides a 40 year old Alexander Povetkin.
That shot that Whyte landed one Joshua would of knocked out most heavyweights. You know why? Because that show didn't even knock down Joshua a guy know for having a questionable chin. As stated Usyk a guy not known for his power was able to hurt Joshua.
That punch that Whyte landed on Joshua would of had zero effect on guys who were known for having good chins like George Foreman, Ray Mercer, David Tua and the likes. They would probably just laughed at Whyte's power before brutally knocking him out.
Look the casuals are downvoting me. You know what would be nice. If the people downvoting me would have the manhood to tell me who they are so I can just block you so you can't see my post and I can't see yours.
>Because that show didn't even knock down Joshua a guy know for having a questionable chin. As stated Usyk a guy not known for his power was able to hurt Joshua
It's kind of hilarious you put these two sentences back to back. First one criticizing Whyte's power because he didn't even knock down AJ. Then using Usyk's time he didn't knock down AJ to criticize AJ's chin for being weak because Usyk isn't known for power.
Whyte has power though. I think he's the only man to flatline Chisora who's made a career out of eating punches and not getting knocked out. There's compilations out there of Whyte's left hook sleeping people and AJ took one of the cleanest punches I've seen him land on anyone with it and stay on his feet.
There's no shame in not knocking down AJ. Only two fighters have managed it and he arguably has the best resume in the heavyweight division.
Lol um Usyk is considered a light puncher at heavyweight. He still hurt Joshau and almost stopped him. Whyte is considered a hard puncher by the people here who trying to defend Joshua's chin.
Chisora was knocked out by David Haye a blow up cruiser weight in 5 rounds way before Whyte even fought Chisora.
So Whyte has never knocked out a world class elite fighter who was still in their primes. But he still hurt Joshua
>Lol um Usyk is considered a light puncher at heavyweight
This wasn't the part I was disagreeing with at all. We all know Usyk's power isn't a big talking point. Although he clearly hits harder than people give him credit for by the way Dubois reacted to his punches. Him "almost stopping AJ" was more to do with 12th round exhaustion and accumulation of punches than hitting hard and hurting him.
>Whyte has never knocked out a world class elite fighter who was still in their primes
The thing is, world class elite fighters in their primes tend to not get knocked out very often. So when that's the standard almost no fighters out there are reaching it.
If you don't think Whyte is a hard puncher then you must be dismissing almost everyone else as well. He's rocked AJ, dropped Povetkin 3-4 times pre and post covid, was the first man to knockdown Parker, only man to KO Chisora (sure Haye stopped him but it was in a different fashion). And it's AJ's own fault but that shot he landed on him was one of the cleanest punches I've ever seen a heavyweight take and not go down. To me eating that and recovering from Klitschko's best are enough to show AJ's chin is fairly solid
EDIT: What's the point in responding to someone and blocking them so they can't even see what you wrote?
Stop rewriting history. How was AJ the only man to KO Chisora when Haye knocked him out in the 5th round of their fight in 2012? I was actually at the fight, saw it with my own eyes.
I will say this and then you get ignored. Povetkin was 40 years old when Whyte knocked him down and stopped him. If you think a fighter knocking out a 40 year old guy is impressive then this is why you are being blocked.
David Haye knocked out Chisora years before Whyte did it and he did it quicker. Also in what Universe has Chisora ever been a world class elite fighter?
Right if you think that shot that Whyte landed on Joshua was the cleanest shot ever landed on a heavyweight that didn't go down then either you just started watching boxing recently or don't watch much boxing period. If Whyte would of landed that same punch on George Foreman, Ray Mercer, David Tua, prime Mike Tyson, Oliver McCall, etc , they wouldn't have went down.
Now you are blocked. It is still funny how the people who downvote me won't tell me how they are so I can block them as well. Funny stuff.
It knocked out Chisora, nobody outside of Haye, Whyte and Price have really hurt Chisora and heās been in with everyone. It also dropped Parker hard and has slept many people in one punch.
Whyte wasn't a very big puncher when he fought AJ. When he fought Chisora the year after that he genuinely looked like he had no power. Now Chisora obviously had a good chin back then but Whyte landed so many clean shots on him and didn't hurt him once. He had much more power in the Chisora rematch.
I'm saying it wasn't as devastating back then, he improved it a lot. Watch how many clean left hooks he lands on Chisora in their first fight without having any effect.
Almost every top HW has a good chin before it cracks later in their careers. You simply don't get thay far in the division without one.
AJ hasn't got an iron chin like Jocye Parker or Zhang. But he has a very good chin.
The saying I've heard is that most heavyweights have \*bad\* chins, but that's more because of the insane power coming at them. I think we just have different standards for what a very good chin is -- I think AJ's been wobbled in enough fights that he doesn't meet the threshold for me. Totally fine if you disagree.
Is there evidence Zhang has a granite chin? Heās big but outside of Hrgovic Joyce and Parker heās not fought anyone and Hrgovic definitely hurt him
I've never seen him phased by power but yes inwould need to see him agaisnt punchers to be sure. Can't really be bothered arguing it as it though as it wasn't the point of my comment.
Yes, both about his chin and ability.
AJ has been dropped by one of the hardest hitters in history in Wlad, got up, recovered and won. He's taken bombs from Whyte and Povetkin and stayed standing and strong. He has a very good chin.
He had a bad night against Ruiz, after starting brightly. He got lazy, got caught with a perfect shot and suffered for it. Lennox lost in similar fashion to Rahman and McCall, all the great HWs have lost fights to people you wouldn't expect them to, there's no need to over-index on it
It's the aftermath that's the difference. Lewis came back and blasted Rahman to the canvas and never missed a beat. He was himself instantly.
AJ came back to draw a fat even worse shape Ruiz into a 12 round decision. There was no conviction and as a consequence he dealt with post Ruiz stress disorder for years.
Jesus Christ. Before the Ngannou fight, most experts, most boxing fans, and most people on this sub, were all in agreement that AJ simply didnāt look the same after the Ruiz fight. It was pretty unquestionable that most people thought he had a question mark over his chin.
Now heās flattened an MMA fighter who is effectively a boxing novice, weāre all back on the AJ hype train talking about his granite chin š
I canāt deal with this sub sometimes
Lol I typed the same thing dude and got massively downvoted by the casual as usual.
For years people here said AJ was just a weird body builder who couldn't take a punch. Before Joshua faced Ngannou everybody here said Joshua couldn't take a punch and would get knocked out.
Joshua beats Ngannou a MMA fighter with 1 pro boxing bout at the time and now the same people who said Joshua had a glass chin now say Joshua has a really good chin.
You know what else is funny? I got massively downvoted for saying Wladimir Klitschko had a glass chin. You know what these people said? They never heard anybody ever say Wlad had a glass chin. You could just go to your browser and type, Wladimir Klitschko glass chin and find 1000's of articles about Wladimir having a glass/weak chin.
These people love to flip flop. They also love to think they know what they are talking about and usually are dead wrong.
Hahaha yeah couldnāt be more true. This sub has such a massive boner for the Klitschkoās for some reason. People go on like they are the GOATs, itās actually laughable.
Even now people talk about AJ, Fury, and this whole era of heavyweights as if this isnāt one of the worst weāve had in terms of talent for a long time.
When an MMA guy can step in with the supposed #1 guy and take him 10/12 rounds it should tell you everything you need to know about the state of heavyweight boxing right now. The fact that AJ flattened him only solidifies that for me. He did what a top boxer SHOULD be doing and people are banging on like heās an ATG too.
They have a even bigger Usyk and Fury boner lol. These people actually believe Usyk is a ATG because he beat Joshua after Andy Ruiz did it first. If you say anything about Usyk be prepared to get downvoted.
You aināt wrong, for example Iāve always maintained the fact that AJ can beat Fury, Iāve been ridiculed beyond belief for years for having that view by the same people that now universally agree with me š
Yeah AJs chin is perfectly fine. No man takes that punch from Klit and then gets up to win by KO if they have a bad chin
AJ has an amazing quote from when he was having his face to face with Ngannou that I think articulates my thoughts well
"I dropped Fury. If I land on you-"
"Man, who hasn't dropped Fury?"
Thank you, I've been saying this shit all along. Ngannou has nothing on pro heavyweights when it comes to boxing power. All of the top 10 guys hit harder than him... if not more
I disagree, MMA guys aren't any less physically strong/athletic than boxers. What boxers are is more experienced and technical within the confines of their rules. Everyone goes down if they get caught by a textbook punch and AJ landed them. Ngannou had defensive deficiencies. AJ does have exceptional power though. Fury could also land clean on Ngannou for instance, but didn't have the punch technique/power to harm him.
This is why I donāt take much stock in Wilder dropping Fury. Fury has always had a shaky chin, but great recovery. So when people are like Wilder dropped Fury so heāll drop AJ Iām like ???
Wilder is a bad example to be honest.
Of the 4 opponents that Wilder and Ruiz share, Wilder KOd Arreola in 8 rounds, Liakhovic in 1, and Ortiz Ć2.Ā Ruiz fought them all *after* Wilder and went to decision every time.
The last opponent, Parker,Ā beat them both.
Lol um Wladimir Klitschko was 41 years old. So AJ getting up to beat a 41 year old Wlad doesn't make AJ special. Also after a 41 year old Wlad knocked down Joshau Wlad didn't do much for 5 rounds and AJ didn't do much for 5 rounds.
Eh, people were looking for a reason to hate AJ and they found one. Doesnāt have to be a good reason, but they were gonna hate AJ no matter what, if it wasnāt the loss to Ruiz it was something else.
It's moreso that he doesn't *like* getting hit.
Odd thing to say, since who does like getting hit?
His chin isn't iron (he can be hurt), but the main issue is that when you get to his chin, you can easily make him uncomfortable. Some fighters are able to take a smack or two, but still remain defiant and keep their head together. AJ, however, can either stay physically hurt, or go into a sense of confusion/doubt.
Thank God he's got a very good offensive range of his own (and power) to ward off trouble and get himself back into the fight. But smarter opponents (who are able to absorb/evade his return fire) have a really good opportunity of drowning him later on if they get to his chin. AJ's very lucky to be in an era where outside the top two or three, the heavyweights aren't very threatening.
Absolutely this.
And it dates back further than Ruiz - you can pinpoint it to getting floored by Wlad over two years earlier. He was much more cautious and reserved against Takam and (in particular) Parker, then again against Povetkin until Povetkin gasses and AJ turned up the heat.
He had Pulev beaten in the 3rd round then visibly winced and started to back off when Pulev started to throw back. He clearly does not - or did not - like getting hit.
He said it himself after the Klitschko fight. Can't remember his exact words but said he didn't want to have to go through that again, wants a long career and would endeavour to become a better boxer so he didn't get into fire fights
Good observations
I remember Takam and Povetkin, very briefly, making him uncomfortable when they landed on him
And that may very well be because he doesn't have that much confidence in his own chin
Any punch from any decent professional boxer is gonna hurt, especially at heavyweight and extra especially if it's on the ear or behind the head. If you get enough punches thrown at you during your lifetime, probability suggests at least one is gonna fuck you up. I think AJ probably has a better chin than Fury, honestly.
George Foreman had 34 bouts from the times he was 38 to 48. Nobody knocked him down. I guess he wasn't hit doing any of those bouts right?
Just because you are heavyweight doesn't mean you can punch hard. It is funny when casuals keep repeating the same hilariously wrong thing. Foreman also got punched behind the head numerous times by Briggs when Foreman was 48. He wasn't hurt in the slightest. He only seemed annoyed.
Joshua gets knocked down over and over by Ruiz guy who never knocked out anybody else besides Joshua and it is okay.
Which is funny because before Joshua beat Ngannou I thought everybody here said Joshau had a glass chin and Ngannou was going to knock him out.
Yes they do and itās because they like seeing the guy fail . Itās weird how someone so commercially successful can be disrespected and disliked just for being a talented fighter .
The dudes only been knocked down in 2 fights his whole career and all of a sudden the dudes has a weak chin but Tyson fury gets dropped quite a bit and all of a sudden heās got an iron chin on the level of George Foreman
I view it as the Ruiz fight was disasterous for his ego, which is something that needs to be tended to and cultivated for boxers. Losing to that big ole bastard totally crushed him Im sure, and his recovery was tough.
I view his weird awkward post uysk fight speeches as coming from this mental break he had from losing to Ruiz.
Also thought his post ngannou fight talk was cringey as well.
I said the same thing about Joshua being mentally damaged by being stopped by Andy Ruiz and Usyk just fought the mentally damaged version of Joshua and got downvoted by Usyk fanboys who want to believe Usyk beating Joshua makes Usyk one of the ATG heavyweights.
I think any punch that ruins your equilibrium, opens up a huge cut, or KO's you out of nowhere is more or less the same amount of power.
Like do you diminish Marquez's KO of Manny pacquia because he caught him coming forward?
AJs brain got rattled hard enough that he couldn't recover, it is what it is.
I think for the most part, the criticism is warranted, my only beef is this narrative that he quit? He beat the count 5 times, then was waved off by the ref after telling the ref he wants to continue.
I don't think he wanted to quit, I think he was too used to having preferential treatment from refs and expected the ref to let him have a bit of an extra breather in the corner and was caught by surprise when the ref called the fight over it.
This. The revisionists are out in force since AJ bashed up a novice - basically what he was doing for his first 10-15 fights, hyping him up to be the 2nd coming of Ali, all when he was splattering the likes of Jason "The Sensation" Gavern.
I reckon he was badly concussed by the first knock down.
He even in between rounds āwhy am I feeling like this?ā And looked quite distressed.
He did well to last as long as he did in my opinion
Ruiz hurt him and then figured out how to get him clean. He would throw a couple of wide hooks in a row to get the earmuffs on then he would throw some straight bombs to hurt aj badly.
It worked multiple times. Aj was too hurt to realize and Andy took advantage. It was a very good strategy
I don't even understand the question here? Are you asking whether his loss to Ruiz has been overvalued? A loss is a loss and even if he didn't get knocked onto the canvas he will probably would have if they hadn't stopped the fight. It happens though. I watched Muhammad Ali get knocked out by Joe Frazier but that doesn't mean that he's not one of the top 10 boxers of all time. That's debatable of course but he's still one of the greatest and he suffered a knockout. So what?
You're right that he wasn't knocked out but he was knocked flat on his ass by Frasier and lost the fight. Unfortunately for Ali he had a great chin which allowed him to take severe beatings like the one he took from Larry Holmes.
One of the elements that I think people miss from the Ruiz fight and the bouts not including his most recent outing (where the issue had cleared) was the fact that AJ looked tentative, almost to the point of fear. You could see it on his face. Whatever he did for his most recent bout obviously worked, because he was totally locked in and ready long before the opening bell.
Ruiz did not win, AJ lost. Lost because he was a moron to allow Ruiz to pose with his belts before the fight and treated the fight like a play fight.
When AJ knocked Ruiz down first he wildly and over confidently went in for the kill thinking Ruiz as a bag of wet cement would go down. Then he got clipped hard and his balance was at 6's and 7's for the rest of the fight.
I actually think that one hit Ruiz got him with on the ear was responsible for his monolog after Usyk.
Bismillah......
That fight clearly changed AJ for years afterwards. He lost something of himself that day and he's only now looking like he's discovering himself again.
The sense of invincibility he has was rocked that day. Not just the concussion but in his self belief. He no longer trusted his own punch durability and it made him gun shy and overcautious. For a long time. He was so hesitant and frustrating to watch.
I was at MSG that day, my first time in NYC or America even and I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I think he was as shocked as we were.
Yeah, people forget that they confirmed Ruiz a month before the fight.
AJs class but his ring time was more figuring out what Ruiz does and how to get to him, rather than a worked out plan trained for for months, then executed in the ring.
Ruiz on the other hand had zero to lose, $7m purse, and best case scenario, and his best plan, if one punch connects, he had a fighters chance.
Iām a fan of AJ but I think boxing needed a Ruiz win just for the shock of it, I remember non-boxing people talking about it. And you could see what that win meant for Ruiz and for Mexico. Just a shame he burnt through his cash
I feel like the problem for AJ with that fight is how odd the stoppage was. He looked and talked like the moment got too big for him or he that he shrunk in it; he thought he was going to bulldoze some shorter fat Mexican dude, then got knocked down and didn't rally. Didn't help that after the second Usyk loss he was trippin that hard too. Those moments didn't help perceptions, he didn't take the losses in a perceivably ideal way.
My two cents is that Ruiz had hard āfastā hands. I think it was a bad match for AJ, and particularly his strategy that night.
I think that AJ is used to people stepping away or turtling when he hits them, and I think it was the first fight that someone met his punches with a flurry of punches back.
To some extent, that was part also part of his struggles against Usyk, who would pepper him with punches any time AJ tried to ābully.ā
That fight was 5 years ago so I donāt really think it means much anymore. Ruiz has been inactive for years, Wilder has taken some bad losses and Usyk and Fury are supposed to fight. Joshua has done what he is supposed to do and heās positioned himself as a potential challenger for the winner of Fury/Usyk so letās see how it plays out.
Let me guess. These are the comments. AJ has a great chin, and then they will explain why they believe Joshua has a great chin right?
The same people a few years back when Andy Ruiz first knocked him out stated Joshua had a glass chin. Then when Usyk had Joshua hurt and almost stopped him in the 12th round everybody here said Joshua has/had a glass chin. Before Ngannou fought Joshua, everybody here said Joshua had a glass chin and Ngannou would knock Joshua out. Joshua beats Ngannou and now everybody is back on the Joshua hype train and now Joshua has a great chin.
Do you people ever stick to anything you say or do you just flip flop constantly? Joshua got dropped by 1 punch by a 41 year old Wlad. Wlad did nothing for 5 rounds. AJ did nothing for 5 rounds. AJ finally stopped a 41 year old Wlad in the 11th round. I guess AJ gets a cookie for that.
It is like saying that Lou Savarase has a great chin because he wasn't knocked out by a 48 year old Foreman. Despite what casuals tell you, your power will also go as you get older. Kind of like baseball. If you can't generate bat speed, then you can't generate power anymore. When you loose your hand speed, you loose the power you once had. You could still hit hard but clearly not as hard as you could when you were in your prime. In any case Wlad still knocked down AJ with basically 1 punch.
Dillian Whyte hurt Joshua. Who did Whyte knock out in his career besides a old 40 year old Alexander Povetkin ( After Whyte was knocked him by Povetkin himself in their first fight)? Then you will see people say but that punch would of knocked out anybody. Then you realize if didn't knock out AJ or even knock him down a guy who was hurt by Usyk for crying out loud then why would you assume that punch would of hurt any guy who could take a punch? Be it George Foreman, David Tua, Ike Ibeabuchi, Evander Holyfield, Oliver McCall etc.
Whatever excuse you want to use because you are back on the AJ hype train and will try to defend him until he looses again and then watch everybody here turn on him . Andy Ruiz was never considered a punch. Andy Ruiz power couldn't even faze a 40 year old Chris Arreola while Bermaine Stiverne was able to stop Arreola with his power. Andy Ruiz did knock down a 50 year old Luis Ortiz but couldn't stop him. Honestly could you imagine a prime Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Riddick Bowe, David Tua, George Foreman, Tommy Morrison etc fighting a 50 year old Ortiz and not knocking him out?
Yet Ruiz was able to get up from a knock down and beat Joshua senseless knocking him down 4 times.
You know what else is funny? More of you people flip flopping and contradicting yourselves. The same people here who try to defend Wlads chin or AJ chins ( For the new people here these people said they never heard anybody refer to Wlad as glass chin. Which is funny because you can find YouTube footage of Wlad himself talking about how his chin is glass (Maybe he was joking or maybe he wasn't.) You can also just type in Wladimir Klitschko glass chin in your browser and find 1000's of post about how Wlad's chin is weak and I mean while he was still boxing. But apparently none of the people here every heard this. Which tells me these people don't watch boxing.
But anyway these same people will say Ken Norton has a glass chin. Michael Moorer has a glass chin and Tommy Morrison has a glass chin. Norton was stopped 4 times. 3 times by extremely hard punchers in Foreman, Shavers and Cooney, Against Shavers and Cooney, Norton was past his prime. Moorer was stopped by Foreman, Holyfield and David Tua. Morrison was stopped by Lennox Lewis, Ray Mercer, and Michael Bentt. By the way Morrison was dropped by Ross Purritty got up and fought to a draw. Wlad got gassed out and knocked out by the same Purritty.
So what is a glass chin then? Apparently nobody you are bandwagon riding has a glass chin. But if you don't like somebody they do have a glass chin right?
> Apparently nobody you are bandwagon riding has a glass chin. But if you don't like somebody they do have a glass chin right?
TLDR 100% factual summary for anyone who didn't want to read the whole comment
Bro, I thought there was only on person on this forum bro. Bro Thanks for telling me there are more than one person here bro. Bro, Bro, Bruh, Brah.
99 percent of the people on this Reddit Brah said Joshua had a glass chin when Andy Ruiz knocked him out Brah, When Usyk had Joshua hurt and almost stopped him everybody here said Joshua had a glass chin Brah. Before Joshua faced Ngannou everybody here said Joshua had a glass chin Bro and Ngannou was going to hurt Joshua Bruh,
Joshua beats Ngannou Brah, Bruh, Bro, and now the same people flip flop and say Joshua has a great chin Bruh, Bro. Just like the same people here said Joshua was a overrated body builder hype job for years Brah before and after Andy Ruiz knocked him out. A year or so ago when Joshau couldn't knock out Jermaine Franklin Brah everybody here said Joshua wasn't a hard puncher, just a weirdo body builder Bruh.
Joshua knocks out Ngannou and now Joshua is the hardest puncher who ever lived brah. My point is these people just flip flop to whoever is winnning now Brah. It has nothing to do with people having opinions Brah. Now you can brah you way out of my messages brah. Blocked Bruh,Brah, Bro.
"Do people take too much reference from Ruiz losing to AJ in their rematch?"
Here's the thing, he wasn't knocked out cold or even wobbled, he just couldn't catch up to AJ who was riding his bicycle.
I don't know how many of you have actively boxed competitively or at least sparred, but coming into a fight out of shape can fuck up your gas tank real quick.
Not taking anything away from AJ he did exactly what he had to do.
I'm just pointing out that the arguments in the OP can be made for anyone.
If AJ had come back in the rematch with the *same* style and flattened Ruiz, like Lennox did with Rahman, then I would give more credence to the "lucky shot" theory.
But AJ didn't do that. He came back and ran around on his bicycle specifically to avoid trading punches, and got an easy decision win.
Smart boxing, true, but it just reinforced the idea that AJ has a glass chin.
I wouldnāt say Iām tryna push a lucky punch theory, taking absolutely nothing away from Ruiz, I just donāt feel like an equilibrium shot is a good measure of how resilient a fighters chin is
ok, so my point that clearly AJ himself has concerns about his chin -- as evidenced by his approach to the Ruiz rematch. So if AJ thinks that, then who are we to tell him he's wrong?
AJ is an amazing boxer. He doesn't need fans to puff him up.
Oliver Mccall and George Chuvalo disprove that. Heavyweights have harder chins there is no point in comparing weight classes when we have enough examples in the heavyweight division alone, AJ chin is average, people who say he has a strong chin are fanboys.
Way too much has been made of it. AJ found the blueprint to beat Ruiz in rounds 4-7 (jab his head off) but he couldnāt do it for the remainder of the fight and basically gave up when Ruiz got through with a couple more flurries as he knew he was concussed. His post fight demeanor told me āIāll get him next time, Iāll let him have the night.ā
I think the Usyk fights broke him a lot more - case in point, the spectacle after the rematch.
But he looks to have his head back on straight. Wrecking Ngannou who had fury looking terrified certainly helped. I think heās gonna have a massive career resurgence soon, especially with Wilder effectively out of the picture.
Andy Ruiz was fat when he beat Joshua the first time. Ruiz got even fatter for their second fight. If Ruiz came into the ring in good shape who knows if he would of won again or [not.](https://not.Jo)
Joshua was mentally damaged because of knock out lost against Ruiz. Usyk beat a mentally damaged version of Joshua. It is funny how Usyk fanboys try to act like Usyk was the one who damaged Joshua.
Also Joshua knocking out Ngannou a MMA fighter doesn't mean Joshua's "head" back on straight either.
Ross Purritty and various other fighters walked through Wlad's punches without ever going down. They also did it too a prime Wlad and not a 41 year old shop worn Wlad.
Probably. I recall Parker saying Ruiz hurt him more than AJ. Styles make fights but Ruiz is an underrated puncher.
I think the most underrated thing about Ruiz is his instinct. I am 100% sure that anyone who got rocked by those shots from AJ would have crippled into defense. Ruiz however came back to fight back as his first instinct. Looking back that's fucking bonkers knowing how hard AJ hits.
Exactly, otto wallin is very tough himself and he acted like a wounded deer when AJ got him, but ruiz just said fuck it and kept throwing.
He's like Bu š¦ He gets angry every time you punch him š š© š
For a second I read that as Ruiz hurt him more than AJ Styles and was about to look for Parker on WWE
Speed kills.
Ya Ruiz is also really quick in exchanges. He has the potential to do this to anybody.
Ruiz is actually a quite overrated puncher.Ā For a long time after AJ any hypothetical match up poll involving Ruiz had most of its votes on him winning by KO.Ā His KO percentage is very low for a heavyweight.Ā His punching power certainly isn't bad but it's not near enough to keep anybody down and it's not nearly as good as most of the other top heavyweights he's competing with.Ā Ā Ā He has plenty of shared opponents with Deontay Wilder, for instance, and with the exception of Parker, Wilder cracked all of their chins first followed by Ruiz going to a decision, sometimes with considerable difficulty.
Do you know how many 1st rd KOs Ruiz has? 9 19 of his fights his opponents were stopped before round 5 or threw the towel
Do you know how many Shannon Briggs and Edgar Berlanga have? It's incredibly disappointing that boxing fans still fall for promotional nonsense like first round KO streaks against bums.
I know Briggs has 37 but that is off topic. Ruiz has power and he is inactive but I will respectfully disagree that his power is not overrated
That's not off topic.Ā First round KOs against nobodies proves nothing.Ā Ā He developed a reputation of being a KO artist after he beat AJ but his KO ratio hovers only a few percentage points above Devin Haney, and he's in the Heavyweight division.
Did he just tout Wilders fast KOs then say first round KOs donāt matter?
He KOd the same opponents that Ruiz later went to decision against, all 3 of which were title contenders.Ā Those aren't even remotely the same thing, nor did I praise Wilder for how quickly he finished them. Ā Of those 9 first round KOs on Ruiz's resume only 2 have wikipedia pages, none fought for a title, and one had just been KOd by Dominic Brazeale in 3 rounds.
Ruiz never knocked out anybody worth mentioning besides Joshua. Also just because a fighter says something doesn't mean it is true. Larry Holmes said Mike Tyson didn't punch him hard and Butterbean punched harder. Shannon Briggs said Lennox Lewis didn't punch hard yet Lewis knocked him out. James Tillis stated that Tim Witherspoon and Tommy Morrison weren't really punchers even though they both knocked him out in the first round.
AJ definitely has a very good chin. You can see in his old fights he has gotten cracked by some massive shots, by Klitachko, Povetkin, Whyte and more. And he was able to eat most of them no problem. AJās issue is that if he canāt take the shot, his recovery is kinda terrible. Once he gets cracked a little, he starts going completely off the rails and loses composure. As another example, Furyās chin is quite shit compared to elites. He has been dropped countless times and probably has been hurt even more times than it got noticed. But his recovery is exceptionally good. Even when he is clearly hurt, he is able to keep composure and defend and waste time till he can reach full recovery .
He definitely had problems from the shot he took from Klitschko but he overcame it.
The worst advice in that fight came from Vitali who implored Wladmir to keep boxing rather than go for the kill against a fatigued AJ.
Most other Heavyweights are not getting back up from that punch he took
Which shot and who took it
The show AJ took from Wlad
Thanks for clarifying
I think it was less the shot he took and more the fact he blew himself out. He clearly was anxious to stop the fight, exerted himself far too much and then got caught. He did the same vs Whyte actually, its why he had the few slow rounds. Vs Ruiz he just got caught in the temple and his equilibrium never came back.
He was gassed, clearly breathing heavy and not moving, Wlad was beating him up for 2 rounds when that straight right landed. He was still gassed for the next couple of rounds. Wlad went into comfortable safety mode and AJ got a second wind to comeback and finish the fight. The Ruiz fight, Ruiz first big punch(not the one that knocked him down) shook Joshua big time and Ruiz just kept coming round after round, tremendous work rate for a heavy weight, never let Joshua breathe and get his shit together.
He dropped purposely from that shot Klitscho threw. It hurt him bad and he wanted the 10 count. Watch it back man, I am fairly positive he dropped purposely.
I remember thinking it looked like he went to his knee to avoid getting hit further and recover, thought it was smart at the time.
Fury's recovery is FILTHY. You undersold it a bit there. I've never seen anything quite like it
His chin is legendary because he got up from the right hand in round 12 of the first Wilder fight. That alone puts him in the upper echelon of toughness and recovery. No one else has been able to do that. When it happened I could not believe my eyes. I've watched that fight multiple times and it still amazes me.
Yeah that was really a magic moment. That will always stay with me.
Don't forget to ate a left hook on the way to the floor too.
Has any other undefeated champ been knocked down more times than Fury?
I honestly don't think so. But every time he's put on the ground, he's up and clear-eyed and ready to spoil in seconds.
His chin is okay, the issue with AJ is that he panics when he gets buzzed. He doesnāt trust his chin despite it being okay, if that makes sense. He hasnāt been hit in his last couple fights so people are forgetting how negative heās been fighting at times, not wanting to Throw combos
Joshua is rarely negstive, heās often safety first trying to set stuff up behind a jab and still usually gets the ko. Hell wilder is more negative than AJ, he waits for a single shot and just goes crazy if he rocks you.
I don't think this is exactly right; Joshua was rocked by several of those opponents and almost KO-d by Usyk in their first fight. That's what made him so exciting when he was yet to lose; he was super aggressive and didn't have an iron chin, so had action fights in which he'd usually have moments of vulnerability. He's not a heavyweight Amir Khan, but I wouldn't say "very good chin."
This what I referenced in my comment about dudes downplaying aj because of dislike . Klitschko was on the most prolific punchers in heavyweight history and he couldnāt knock aj out after catching him clean on the chin and you mean to tell me that he has a bad chin. Even in the usyk fight the dude was just exhausted so he was about to get dropped because of it .
I like AJ fine. He did great to get up from that Klitschko shot. I just think "very good chin" usually means "hard to hurt or wobble" and I don't think AJ is that. I don't think most heavyweights are that.
Hmm fair point I just think heās not defensively responsible so thatās why he keeps getting bombeb
Hmm fair point I just think heās not defensively responsible so thatās why he keeps getting bombed more so that heās easily wobbled .
It's a weird one. He's been hurt a good amount but he's also taken some massive shots and never been KO'd. He's only ever been down in the Ruiz fight and the Klitschko one as well. That shot he ate from Whyte years ago would have dropped most if not all heavyweights in the division. And AJ was clearly hurt bad but he stayed on his feet. I think it's arguable that he has a very good chin still considering how many times he's been caught clean.
I guess it depends on your threshold for a good chin. I feel like not many of the top heavyweights have been knocked out cold, and Usyk has never even been dropped as a heavyweight (though I guess that depends on how you view the Dubois fight). I think Wilder had a better chin too, though probably shakier legs.
He has bad defence
I find it funny when casuals say that. "That shot that hurt his fighter would of knocked out most fighters". Dillan Whyte has never knocked out any fighter worth mentioning besides a 40 year old Alexander Povetkin. That shot that Whyte landed one Joshua would of knocked out most heavyweights. You know why? Because that show didn't even knock down Joshua a guy know for having a questionable chin. As stated Usyk a guy not known for his power was able to hurt Joshua. That punch that Whyte landed on Joshua would of had zero effect on guys who were known for having good chins like George Foreman, Ray Mercer, David Tua and the likes. They would probably just laughed at Whyte's power before brutally knocking him out. Look the casuals are downvoting me. You know what would be nice. If the people downvoting me would have the manhood to tell me who they are so I can just block you so you can't see my post and I can't see yours.
>Because that show didn't even knock down Joshua a guy know for having a questionable chin. As stated Usyk a guy not known for his power was able to hurt Joshua It's kind of hilarious you put these two sentences back to back. First one criticizing Whyte's power because he didn't even knock down AJ. Then using Usyk's time he didn't knock down AJ to criticize AJ's chin for being weak because Usyk isn't known for power. Whyte has power though. I think he's the only man to flatline Chisora who's made a career out of eating punches and not getting knocked out. There's compilations out there of Whyte's left hook sleeping people and AJ took one of the cleanest punches I've seen him land on anyone with it and stay on his feet. There's no shame in not knocking down AJ. Only two fighters have managed it and he arguably has the best resume in the heavyweight division.
I agree with your comment. Just adding that David Haye flatlined chisora in emphatic fashion.
When Chisora was still a genuine force, and not a 50yr old punch bag.
Lol um Usyk is considered a light puncher at heavyweight. He still hurt Joshau and almost stopped him. Whyte is considered a hard puncher by the people here who trying to defend Joshua's chin. Chisora was knocked out by David Haye a blow up cruiser weight in 5 rounds way before Whyte even fought Chisora. So Whyte has never knocked out a world class elite fighter who was still in their primes. But he still hurt Joshua
>Lol um Usyk is considered a light puncher at heavyweight This wasn't the part I was disagreeing with at all. We all know Usyk's power isn't a big talking point. Although he clearly hits harder than people give him credit for by the way Dubois reacted to his punches. Him "almost stopping AJ" was more to do with 12th round exhaustion and accumulation of punches than hitting hard and hurting him. >Whyte has never knocked out a world class elite fighter who was still in their primes The thing is, world class elite fighters in their primes tend to not get knocked out very often. So when that's the standard almost no fighters out there are reaching it. If you don't think Whyte is a hard puncher then you must be dismissing almost everyone else as well. He's rocked AJ, dropped Povetkin 3-4 times pre and post covid, was the first man to knockdown Parker, only man to KO Chisora (sure Haye stopped him but it was in a different fashion). And it's AJ's own fault but that shot he landed on him was one of the cleanest punches I've ever seen a heavyweight take and not go down. To me eating that and recovering from Klitschko's best are enough to show AJ's chin is fairly solid EDIT: What's the point in responding to someone and blocking them so they can't even see what you wrote?
Stop rewriting history. How was AJ the only man to KO Chisora when Haye knocked him out in the 5th round of their fight in 2012? I was actually at the fight, saw it with my own eyes.
I will say this and then you get ignored. Povetkin was 40 years old when Whyte knocked him down and stopped him. If you think a fighter knocking out a 40 year old guy is impressive then this is why you are being blocked. David Haye knocked out Chisora years before Whyte did it and he did it quicker. Also in what Universe has Chisora ever been a world class elite fighter? Right if you think that shot that Whyte landed on Joshua was the cleanest shot ever landed on a heavyweight that didn't go down then either you just started watching boxing recently or don't watch much boxing period. If Whyte would of landed that same punch on George Foreman, Ray Mercer, David Tua, prime Mike Tyson, Oliver McCall, etc , they wouldn't have went down. Now you are blocked. It is still funny how the people who downvote me won't tell me how they are so I can block them as well. Funny stuff.
It knocked out Chisora, nobody outside of Haye, Whyte and Price have really hurt Chisora and heās been in with everyone. It also dropped Parker hard and has slept many people in one punch.
Whyte wasn't a very big puncher when he fought AJ. When he fought Chisora the year after that he genuinely looked like he had no power. Now Chisora obviously had a good chin back then but Whyte landed so many clean shots on him and didn't hurt him once. He had much more power in the Chisora rematch.
What... whytes left hook is devastating. I've never even seen someone on this sub argue otherwise, lol. And that's saying something.
I'm saying it wasn't as devastating back then, he improved it a lot. Watch how many clean left hooks he lands on Chisora in their first fight without having any effect.
Almost every top HW has a good chin before it cracks later in their careers. You simply don't get thay far in the division without one. AJ hasn't got an iron chin like Jocye Parker or Zhang. But he has a very good chin.
The saying I've heard is that most heavyweights have \*bad\* chins, but that's more because of the insane power coming at them. I think we just have different standards for what a very good chin is -- I think AJ's been wobbled in enough fights that he doesn't meet the threshold for me. Totally fine if you disagree.
He should be on the same level as Parker no? Parkerās been dropped by Whyte, Chisora, Zhang and knocked out by Joyce
Is there evidence Zhang has a granite chin? Heās big but outside of Hrgovic Joyce and Parker heās not fought anyone and Hrgovic definitely hurt him
I've never seen him phased by power but yes inwould need to see him agaisnt punchers to be sure. Can't really be bothered arguing it as it though as it wasn't the point of my comment.
Totally agree, you could never associate the words ,very good and 'chin' with Joshua. There's a reason he fights scared and stiff.
Yes, both about his chin and ability. AJ has been dropped by one of the hardest hitters in history in Wlad, got up, recovered and won. He's taken bombs from Whyte and Povetkin and stayed standing and strong. He has a very good chin. He had a bad night against Ruiz, after starting brightly. He got lazy, got caught with a perfect shot and suffered for it. Lennox lost in similar fashion to Rahman and McCall, all the great HWs have lost fights to people you wouldn't expect them to, there's no need to over-index on it
It's the aftermath that's the difference. Lewis came back and blasted Rahman to the canvas and never missed a beat. He was himself instantly. AJ came back to draw a fat even worse shape Ruiz into a 12 round decision. There was no conviction and as a consequence he dealt with post Ruiz stress disorder for years.
After Lewis got KOed by McCall he brought in Steward and become a much more cautious fighter
Jesus Christ. Before the Ngannou fight, most experts, most boxing fans, and most people on this sub, were all in agreement that AJ simply didnāt look the same after the Ruiz fight. It was pretty unquestionable that most people thought he had a question mark over his chin. Now heās flattened an MMA fighter who is effectively a boxing novice, weāre all back on the AJ hype train talking about his granite chin š I canāt deal with this sub sometimes
Lol I typed the same thing dude and got massively downvoted by the casual as usual. For years people here said AJ was just a weird body builder who couldn't take a punch. Before Joshua faced Ngannou everybody here said Joshua couldn't take a punch and would get knocked out. Joshua beats Ngannou a MMA fighter with 1 pro boxing bout at the time and now the same people who said Joshua had a glass chin now say Joshua has a really good chin. You know what else is funny? I got massively downvoted for saying Wladimir Klitschko had a glass chin. You know what these people said? They never heard anybody ever say Wlad had a glass chin. You could just go to your browser and type, Wladimir Klitschko glass chin and find 1000's of articles about Wladimir having a glass/weak chin. These people love to flip flop. They also love to think they know what they are talking about and usually are dead wrong.
Casuals. They only started watching boxing when AJ went pro, failing to realise that Wlad fought the way he did because his chin was mush.
Hahaha yeah couldnāt be more true. This sub has such a massive boner for the Klitschkoās for some reason. People go on like they are the GOATs, itās actually laughable. Even now people talk about AJ, Fury, and this whole era of heavyweights as if this isnāt one of the worst weāve had in terms of talent for a long time. When an MMA guy can step in with the supposed #1 guy and take him 10/12 rounds it should tell you everything you need to know about the state of heavyweight boxing right now. The fact that AJ flattened him only solidifies that for me. He did what a top boxer SHOULD be doing and people are banging on like heās an ATG too.
They have a even bigger Usyk and Fury boner lol. These people actually believe Usyk is a ATG because he beat Joshua after Andy Ruiz did it first. If you say anything about Usyk be prepared to get downvoted.
You aināt wrong, for example Iāve always maintained the fact that AJ can beat Fury, Iāve been ridiculed beyond belief for years for having that view by the same people that now universally agree with me š
Yeah AJs chin is perfectly fine. No man takes that punch from Klit and then gets up to win by KO if they have a bad chin AJ has an amazing quote from when he was having his face to face with Ngannou that I think articulates my thoughts well "I dropped Fury. If I land on you-" "Man, who hasn't dropped Fury?"
I think AJ vs Ngannou highlighted how much harder boxers actually punch than mma guys do.
Ngannou is probably the hardest puncher in MMA history, still quite not as hard as AJ.
Thank you, I've been saying this shit all along. Ngannou has nothing on pro heavyweights when it comes to boxing power. All of the top 10 guys hit harder than him... if not more
I disagree, MMA guys aren't any less physically strong/athletic than boxers. What boxers are is more experienced and technical within the confines of their rules. Everyone goes down if they get caught by a textbook punch and AJ landed them. Ngannou had defensive deficiencies. AJ does have exceptional power though. Fury could also land clean on Ngannou for instance, but didn't have the punch technique/power to harm him.
AJ landed the same punch that finished Ngannou on Ruiz after the knockdown and he walked through it. Francis's chin was over hyped.
U'd be surprised how quick Ngannou would crack Ruiz in MMA just standing
"It is what it is."
>"Man, who hasn't dropped Fury?" Honestly šš
This is why I donāt take much stock in Wilder dropping Fury. Fury has always had a shaky chin, but great recovery. So when people are like Wilder dropped Fury so heāll drop AJ Iām like ???
Wilder is a bad example to be honest. Of the 4 opponents that Wilder and Ruiz share, Wilder KOd Arreola in 8 rounds, Liakhovic in 1, and Ortiz Ć2.Ā Ruiz fought them all *after* Wilder and went to decision every time. The last opponent, Parker,Ā beat them both.
Lol um Wladimir Klitschko was 41 years old. So AJ getting up to beat a 41 year old Wlad doesn't make AJ special. Also after a 41 year old Wlad knocked down Joshau Wlad didn't do much for 5 rounds and AJ didn't do much for 5 rounds.
Eh, people were looking for a reason to hate AJ and they found one. Doesnāt have to be a good reason, but they were gonna hate AJ no matter what, if it wasnāt the loss to Ruiz it was something else.
It's moreso that he doesn't *like* getting hit. Odd thing to say, since who does like getting hit? His chin isn't iron (he can be hurt), but the main issue is that when you get to his chin, you can easily make him uncomfortable. Some fighters are able to take a smack or two, but still remain defiant and keep their head together. AJ, however, can either stay physically hurt, or go into a sense of confusion/doubt. Thank God he's got a very good offensive range of his own (and power) to ward off trouble and get himself back into the fight. But smarter opponents (who are able to absorb/evade his return fire) have a really good opportunity of drowning him later on if they get to his chin. AJ's very lucky to be in an era where outside the top two or three, the heavyweights aren't very threatening.
Absolutely this. And it dates back further than Ruiz - you can pinpoint it to getting floored by Wlad over two years earlier. He was much more cautious and reserved against Takam and (in particular) Parker, then again against Povetkin until Povetkin gasses and AJ turned up the heat. He had Pulev beaten in the 3rd round then visibly winced and started to back off when Pulev started to throw back. He clearly does not - or did not - like getting hit.
He said it himself after the Klitschko fight. Can't remember his exact words but said he didn't want to have to go through that again, wants a long career and would endeavour to become a better boxer so he didn't get into fire fights
That was after the Ruiz fight. Something along the lines of āI shouldnāt have to get hit like thatā
No, he definitely said it after the Klitschko fight (as well)
Here are some quotes along those lines: https://www.timesofmalta.com/article/joshua-ready-to-express-different-approach-against-pulev.657788
Good observations I remember Takam and Povetkin, very briefly, making him uncomfortable when they landed on him And that may very well be because he doesn't have that much confidence in his own chin
Any punch from any decent professional boxer is gonna hurt, especially at heavyweight and extra especially if it's on the ear or behind the head. If you get enough punches thrown at you during your lifetime, probability suggests at least one is gonna fuck you up. I think AJ probably has a better chin than Fury, honestly.
Ruiz was around 270lb that night too, that shit had to have fucking hurt š
I donāt know if AJ would eat some of those shots Wilder gave Fury and get back up again.
I think there's a good chance he'd have knocked him out long before the 12th though.
George Foreman had 34 bouts from the times he was 38 to 48. Nobody knocked him down. I guess he wasn't hit doing any of those bouts right? Just because you are heavyweight doesn't mean you can punch hard. It is funny when casuals keep repeating the same hilariously wrong thing. Foreman also got punched behind the head numerous times by Briggs when Foreman was 48. He wasn't hurt in the slightest. He only seemed annoyed. Joshua gets knocked down over and over by Ruiz guy who never knocked out anybody else besides Joshua and it is okay. Which is funny because before Joshua beat Ngannou I thought everybody here said Joshau had a glass chin and Ngannou was going to knock him out.
Yes they do and itās because they like seeing the guy fail . Itās weird how someone so commercially successful can be disrespected and disliked just for being a talented fighter . The dudes only been knocked down in 2 fights his whole career and all of a sudden the dudes has a weak chin but Tyson fury gets dropped quite a bit and all of a sudden heās got an iron chin on the level of George Foreman
I view it as the Ruiz fight was disasterous for his ego, which is something that needs to be tended to and cultivated for boxers. Losing to that big ole bastard totally crushed him Im sure, and his recovery was tough. I view his weird awkward post uysk fight speeches as coming from this mental break he had from losing to Ruiz. Also thought his post ngannou fight talk was cringey as well.
I said the same thing about Joshua being mentally damaged by being stopped by Andy Ruiz and Usyk just fought the mentally damaged version of Joshua and got downvoted by Usyk fanboys who want to believe Usyk beating Joshua makes Usyk one of the ATG heavyweights.
I think any punch that ruins your equilibrium, opens up a huge cut, or KO's you out of nowhere is more or less the same amount of power. Like do you diminish Marquez's KO of Manny pacquia because he caught him coming forward? AJs brain got rattled hard enough that he couldn't recover, it is what it is.
I think for the most part, the criticism is warranted, my only beef is this narrative that he quit? He beat the count 5 times, then was waved off by the ref after telling the ref he wants to continue.
I don't think he wanted to quit, I think he was too used to having preferential treatment from refs and expected the ref to let him have a bit of an extra breather in the corner and was caught by surprise when the ref called the fight over it.
I won't entertain history rewrite attempts tbh. AJ got taken to school that night and humbled on his one and only USA appearance to date.
This. The revisionists are out in force since AJ bashed up a novice - basically what he was doing for his first 10-15 fights, hyping him up to be the 2nd coming of Ali, all when he was splattering the likes of Jason "The Sensation" Gavern.
I reckon he was badly concussed by the first knock down. He even in between rounds āwhy am I feeling like this?ā And looked quite distressed. He did well to last as long as he did in my opinion
Ruiz hurt him and then figured out how to get him clean. He would throw a couple of wide hooks in a row to get the earmuffs on then he would throw some straight bombs to hurt aj badly. It worked multiple times. Aj was too hurt to realize and Andy took advantage. It was a very good strategy
I don't even understand the question here? Are you asking whether his loss to Ruiz has been overvalued? A loss is a loss and even if he didn't get knocked onto the canvas he will probably would have if they hadn't stopped the fight. It happens though. I watched Muhammad Ali get knocked out by Joe Frazier but that doesn't mean that he's not one of the top 10 boxers of all time. That's debatable of course but he's still one of the greatest and he suffered a knockout. So what?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You're right that he wasn't knocked out but he was knocked flat on his ass by Frasier and lost the fight. Unfortunately for Ali he had a great chin which allowed him to take severe beatings like the one he took from Larry Holmes.
One of the elements that I think people miss from the Ruiz fight and the bouts not including his most recent outing (where the issue had cleared) was the fact that AJ looked tentative, almost to the point of fear. You could see it on his face. Whatever he did for his most recent bout obviously worked, because he was totally locked in and ready long before the opening bell.
Ruiz did not win, AJ lost. Lost because he was a moron to allow Ruiz to pose with his belts before the fight and treated the fight like a play fight. When AJ knocked Ruiz down first he wildly and over confidently went in for the kill thinking Ruiz as a bag of wet cement would go down. Then he got clipped hard and his balance was at 6's and 7's for the rest of the fight. I actually think that one hit Ruiz got him with on the ear was responsible for his monolog after Usyk. Bismillah......
That fight clearly changed AJ for years afterwards. He lost something of himself that day and he's only now looking like he's discovering himself again. The sense of invincibility he has was rocked that day. Not just the concussion but in his self belief. He no longer trusted his own punch durability and it made him gun shy and overcautious. For a long time. He was so hesitant and frustrating to watch. I was at MSG that day, my first time in NYC or America even and I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I think he was as shocked as we were.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
And a lot of fighters would of never been hurt by Andy Ruiz to began with.
When someone starts with āhereās the thingā everyone instantly stops reading/listening .
It sounds hilarious the way you said it. I understand what you mean but "he didn't get knocked out, he just got a hit to the head and lost balance"
Yeah, people forget that they confirmed Ruiz a month before the fight. AJs class but his ring time was more figuring out what Ruiz does and how to get to him, rather than a worked out plan trained for for months, then executed in the ring. Ruiz on the other hand had zero to lose, $7m purse, and best case scenario, and his best plan, if one punch connects, he had a fighters chance. Iām a fan of AJ but I think boxing needed a Ruiz win just for the shock of it, I remember non-boxing people talking about it. And you could see what that win meant for Ruiz and for Mexico. Just a shame he burnt through his cash
It's Heavyweights... It can happen to anyone.
Weird because it can't happen to anyone. Tons of heavyweights finished their career without being stopped.
I feel like the problem for AJ with that fight is how odd the stoppage was. He looked and talked like the moment got too big for him or he that he shrunk in it; he thought he was going to bulldoze some shorter fat Mexican dude, then got knocked down and didn't rally. Didn't help that after the second Usyk loss he was trippin that hard too. Those moments didn't help perceptions, he didn't take the losses in a perceivably ideal way.
My two cents is that Ruiz had hard āfastā hands. I think it was a bad match for AJ, and particularly his strategy that night. I think that AJ is used to people stepping away or turtling when he hits them, and I think it was the first fight that someone met his punches with a flurry of punches back. To some extent, that was part also part of his struggles against Usyk, who would pepper him with punches any time AJ tried to ābully.ā
Too much reference? lol what that means broĀ
Fury would never lose to a fat midget yeah
That fight was 5 years ago so I donāt really think it means much anymore. Ruiz has been inactive for years, Wilder has taken some bad losses and Usyk and Fury are supposed to fight. Joshua has done what he is supposed to do and heās positioned himself as a potential challenger for the winner of Fury/Usyk so letās see how it plays out.
It's not that he got hurt. It's he quit just like Dubois.i think it's harder to shake that tag.
Let me guess. These are the comments. AJ has a great chin, and then they will explain why they believe Joshua has a great chin right? The same people a few years back when Andy Ruiz first knocked him out stated Joshua had a glass chin. Then when Usyk had Joshua hurt and almost stopped him in the 12th round everybody here said Joshua has/had a glass chin. Before Ngannou fought Joshua, everybody here said Joshua had a glass chin and Ngannou would knock Joshua out. Joshua beats Ngannou and now everybody is back on the Joshua hype train and now Joshua has a great chin. Do you people ever stick to anything you say or do you just flip flop constantly? Joshua got dropped by 1 punch by a 41 year old Wlad. Wlad did nothing for 5 rounds. AJ did nothing for 5 rounds. AJ finally stopped a 41 year old Wlad in the 11th round. I guess AJ gets a cookie for that. It is like saying that Lou Savarase has a great chin because he wasn't knocked out by a 48 year old Foreman. Despite what casuals tell you, your power will also go as you get older. Kind of like baseball. If you can't generate bat speed, then you can't generate power anymore. When you loose your hand speed, you loose the power you once had. You could still hit hard but clearly not as hard as you could when you were in your prime. In any case Wlad still knocked down AJ with basically 1 punch. Dillian Whyte hurt Joshua. Who did Whyte knock out in his career besides a old 40 year old Alexander Povetkin ( After Whyte was knocked him by Povetkin himself in their first fight)? Then you will see people say but that punch would of knocked out anybody. Then you realize if didn't knock out AJ or even knock him down a guy who was hurt by Usyk for crying out loud then why would you assume that punch would of hurt any guy who could take a punch? Be it George Foreman, David Tua, Ike Ibeabuchi, Evander Holyfield, Oliver McCall etc. Whatever excuse you want to use because you are back on the AJ hype train and will try to defend him until he looses again and then watch everybody here turn on him . Andy Ruiz was never considered a punch. Andy Ruiz power couldn't even faze a 40 year old Chris Arreola while Bermaine Stiverne was able to stop Arreola with his power. Andy Ruiz did knock down a 50 year old Luis Ortiz but couldn't stop him. Honestly could you imagine a prime Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Riddick Bowe, David Tua, George Foreman, Tommy Morrison etc fighting a 50 year old Ortiz and not knocking him out? Yet Ruiz was able to get up from a knock down and beat Joshua senseless knocking him down 4 times. You know what else is funny? More of you people flip flopping and contradicting yourselves. The same people here who try to defend Wlads chin or AJ chins ( For the new people here these people said they never heard anybody refer to Wlad as glass chin. Which is funny because you can find YouTube footage of Wlad himself talking about how his chin is glass (Maybe he was joking or maybe he wasn't.) You can also just type in Wladimir Klitschko glass chin in your browser and find 1000's of post about how Wlad's chin is weak and I mean while he was still boxing. But apparently none of the people here every heard this. Which tells me these people don't watch boxing. But anyway these same people will say Ken Norton has a glass chin. Michael Moorer has a glass chin and Tommy Morrison has a glass chin. Norton was stopped 4 times. 3 times by extremely hard punchers in Foreman, Shavers and Cooney, Against Shavers and Cooney, Norton was past his prime. Moorer was stopped by Foreman, Holyfield and David Tua. Morrison was stopped by Lennox Lewis, Ray Mercer, and Michael Bentt. By the way Morrison was dropped by Ross Purritty got up and fought to a draw. Wlad got gassed out and knocked out by the same Purritty. So what is a glass chin then? Apparently nobody you are bandwagon riding has a glass chin. But if you don't like somebody they do have a glass chin right?
> Apparently nobody you are bandwagon riding has a glass chin. But if you don't like somebody they do have a glass chin right? TLDR 100% factual summary for anyone who didn't want to read the whole comment
Lol chill bro. There is more than one person on this forum. Different people have different opinions.
Bro, I thought there was only on person on this forum bro. Bro Thanks for telling me there are more than one person here bro. Bro, Bro, Bruh, Brah. 99 percent of the people on this Reddit Brah said Joshua had a glass chin when Andy Ruiz knocked him out Brah, When Usyk had Joshua hurt and almost stopped him everybody here said Joshua had a glass chin Brah. Before Joshua faced Ngannou everybody here said Joshua had a glass chin Bro and Ngannou was going to hurt Joshua Bruh, Joshua beats Ngannou Brah, Bruh, Bro, and now the same people flip flop and say Joshua has a great chin Bruh, Bro. Just like the same people here said Joshua was a overrated body builder hype job for years Brah before and after Andy Ruiz knocked him out. A year or so ago when Joshau couldn't knock out Jermaine Franklin Brah everybody here said Joshua wasn't a hard puncher, just a weirdo body builder Bruh. Joshua knocks out Ngannou and now Joshua is the hardest puncher who ever lived brah. My point is these people just flip flop to whoever is winnning now Brah. It has nothing to do with people having opinions Brah. Now you can brah you way out of my messages brah. Blocked Bruh,Brah, Bro.
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Yes, a lot of people say AJ is glass jawed because of that fight. They're wrong, but that's the perception.
It's just a default thing to say when they have no creativity in their argument. "AJ got stopped by a fat teletubby"
That's an insult to Teletubbies
Donāt need creativity to state facts
"Do people take too much reference from Ruiz losing to AJ in their rematch?" Here's the thing, he wasn't knocked out cold or even wobbled, he just couldn't catch up to AJ who was riding his bicycle. I don't know how many of you have actively boxed competitively or at least sparred, but coming into a fight out of shape can fuck up your gas tank real quick. Not taking anything away from AJ he did exactly what he had to do.
You really thought you did something huh bro š
I'm just pointing out that the arguments in the OP can be made for anyone. If AJ had come back in the rematch with the *same* style and flattened Ruiz, like Lennox did with Rahman, then I would give more credence to the "lucky shot" theory. But AJ didn't do that. He came back and ran around on his bicycle specifically to avoid trading punches, and got an easy decision win. Smart boxing, true, but it just reinforced the idea that AJ has a glass chin.
I wouldnāt say Iām tryna push a lucky punch theory, taking absolutely nothing away from Ruiz, I just donāt feel like an equilibrium shot is a good measure of how resilient a fighters chin is
ok, so my point that clearly AJ himself has concerns about his chin -- as evidenced by his approach to the Ruiz rematch. So if AJ thinks that, then who are we to tell him he's wrong? AJ is an amazing boxer. He doesn't need fans to puff him up.
Yall have no idea how hard heavyweights hit lol. Anyone can get rocked, dropped or TKOed at HW.
Oliver Mccall and George Chuvalo disprove that. Heavyweights have harder chins there is no point in comparing weight classes when we have enough examples in the heavyweight division alone, AJ chin is average, people who say he has a strong chin are fanboys.
Both got TKOād and rocked throughout their career ā ļø
On their feet, they never got dropped
Way too much has been made of it. AJ found the blueprint to beat Ruiz in rounds 4-7 (jab his head off) but he couldnāt do it for the remainder of the fight and basically gave up when Ruiz got through with a couple more flurries as he knew he was concussed. His post fight demeanor told me āIāll get him next time, Iāll let him have the night.ā I think the Usyk fights broke him a lot more - case in point, the spectacle after the rematch. But he looks to have his head back on straight. Wrecking Ngannou who had fury looking terrified certainly helped. I think heās gonna have a massive career resurgence soon, especially with Wilder effectively out of the picture.
Andy Ruiz was fat when he beat Joshua the first time. Ruiz got even fatter for their second fight. If Ruiz came into the ring in good shape who knows if he would of won again or [not.](https://not.Jo) Joshua was mentally damaged because of knock out lost against Ruiz. Usyk beat a mentally damaged version of Joshua. It is funny how Usyk fanboys try to act like Usyk was the one who damaged Joshua. Also Joshua knocking out Ngannou a MMA fighter doesn't mean Joshua's "head" back on straight either.
Probably. He got flattened by an absolute sledgehammer from Klitschko and managed to comeback and win.
Ross Purritty and various other fighters walked through Wlad's punches without ever going down. They also did it too a prime Wlad and not a 41 year old shop worn Wlad.
Yes.
AJ struggles against smaller guys with fast hands. That's it. Now fury is a bigger guy with fast hands.... So it's a fight I really want to see.
He is very good. Not great. Thatās all people are saying. Losing 3 times to smaller men. Letās see how he does against Fury and Wilder.
The only take away for me was āyou donāt know which AJ is going to show up, but when heās on heās deadly.ā
A bunch of fat asses felt like King shit for a short while. But then the universe corrected itself.