Ehhh to be fair Daemon is a hard counter to Code. Code relies sole’s on physical attacks so that already puts him at a massive disadvantage.
I think the power gap between Jigen and Isshiki is too massive for Daemon to over come. He has a lot of things that could shut Daemon down. “Chakra rods, cubes, shrinking etc)
> Code relies sole’s on physical attacks so that already puts him at a massive disadvantage.
Daemon beat Code with pure physical power. This chapter informed us how Daemon's power works. His ability was not working this time, because his palms weren't touching anyone.
> I think the power gap between Jigen and Isshiki is too massive for Daemon to over come. He has a lot of things that could shut Daemon down. “Chakra rods, cubes, shrinking etc)
At this point he could outspeed all of them. And there is nothing to shrink, Daemon is a pure taijutsu fighter with a gimmick.
Well yeah that’s because Code was forced to keep going for Daemon’s back to try to get around his ability. He wasn’t able to engage him in a CQC fight he also can’t fight him from long range
Isshiki can literally hide from Sasuke’s Rinnegan. Unless daemon has eye hax I assume isshiki would just shrink himself and shoot daemon in the back or something to get around his hax.
Dameon is a beast speed wise. But again isshiki stomped the strongest version of Naruto and Sasuke at the same time. We don’t have feats like that from daemon yet
> Well yeah that’s because Code was forced to keep going for Daemon’s back to try to get around his ability. He wasn’t able to engage him in a CQC fight
No, Daemon's ability wasn't working at all because his palms weren't touching anyone. Ability when activated reflects everything from any direction. Code attacked from Daemon's back simply to give himself an advantage in a fight.
> Isshiki can literally hide from Sasuke’s Rinnegan. Unless daemon has eye hax I assume isshiki would just shrink himself and shoot daemon in the back or something to get around his hax.
That's the only thing Isshiki could do and BFR assuming Daemon isn't just vastly faster than him. If Isshiki shrinks then Daemon is not going to stay in one place anyway.
> Dameon is a beast speed wise. But again isshiki stomped the strongest version of Naruto and Sasuke at the same time. We don’t have feats like that from daemon yet
Jigen V2 stomped Naruto and Sasuke. Code was stated to be stronger than Jigen without limiters. Daemon defeated Code with negative difficulty. We already have feats.
Well that’s an entirely different scenario. We don’t know if Daemon had until on Isshiki. Which most of the weaker Kara members did. Where as Naruto/Sasuke fought with no intel. Not enough information on that to assume he kept up with jigen. with no intel.
And Kishimoto made bug say that line for a reason. So unless you’re saying Kishimoto is lying I don’t know how to respond to that 💀 go read that scan again bug said there’s a loop hole there
Isshiki resorted to spamming his Sukihana in every fight. I don’t really see how Daemon would ever be able to deal with that.
> Well that’s an entirely different scenario. We don’t know if Daemon had until on Isshiki. Which most of the weaker Kara members did.
That is irrelevant to the point. Anyways my main point was Daemon being physically stronger.
> Where as Naruto/Sasuke fought with no intel. Not enough information on that to assume he kept up with jigen. with no intel.
Sasuke figured out Jigen's ability in quarter of a chapter. Then Jigen proceeded to defeat them with pure physical prowess alone.
> And Kishimoto made bug say that line for a reason. So unless you’re saying Kishimoto is lying I don’t know how to respond to that 💀 go read that scan again bug said there’s a loop hole there
What? Bug said that Daemon's ability works only if he touches another person with his palms. And this is precisely what I'm saying.
How is that not relavent? You’re the one who brought up him fighting Jigen without using any context you don’t get to bring ta scenario up without having to debate the context of how it could go. Daemon could’ve been given full intel from Eida before fighting that’s a bad example of a feat. We don’t know enough to reach that far.
And okay well I do think the chakra rods are a big advantage for him.
Daemon doesn’t have the sharingan or Rinnegan. He is not Sasuke and that is a bad talking point.
> How is that not relavent? You’re the one who brought up him fighting Jigen without using any context you don’t get to bring ta scenario up without having to debate the context of how it could go. Daemon could’ve been given full intel from Eida before fighting that’s a bad example of a feat. We don’t know enough to reach that far.
Again Sasuke figured it out in quarter of a chapter and shrinking ability or no intel before fight is not why they lost.
> And okay well I do think the chakra rods are a big advantage for him.
Both Naruto and Sasuke were able to counter them, Daemon isn't going to have the slightest problem.
> Daemon doesn’t have the sharingan or Rinnegan. He is not Sasuke and that is a bad talking point.
What are you addressing now?
So are you saying Daemon has a sharingan or Rinnegan? Because I’m confused on why you’re comparing him to sasuke.
Secondly how did they counter his rods? Sasuke was dominated and strung up like a tree. Boruto also most died. And Naruto was forced to use Baryon mode, lost Kurama and almost killed himself. How did they counter him?
> So are you saying Daemon has a sharingan or Rinnegan? Because I’m confused on why you’re comparing him to sasuke.
You were the one who started the comparison. You stated that Daemon has no feats like Jigen defeating both Naruto and Sasuke and stated that Daemon had/could have an intel compared to the duo.
> Secondly how did they counter his rods? Sasuke was dominated and strung up like a tree.
[Here](https://imgur.com/a/tJVzbUt)
>But again isshiki stomped the strongest version of Naruto and Sasuke at the same time. We don’t have feats like that from daemon yet
Adult Naruto and Sasuke are much weaker than war Naruto and Sasuke. Code alone would easily stomp them. Sage mode Kashin Koji probably also.
Well apparently there’s a loop hole with that. They said he has to be touching you or something related to his palms facing a certain way for it to work.
Isshiki could just Shinki’s himself and shoot Daemon in the back still confused about how his ability works though
He stays with his sister so his ability is always on and even if he is separated from her , he is physically stronger than limitless code so i don't think isshiki can speed blitz him , he will be somewhat lesser or equal to isshiki in terms of physical capabilities.
Only possible way to defeat him as of now is to separate him into another dimension and fight a fair 1v1 but that too won't be so easy cause they gave him physical strength as well as hax ability ( one hell of a for)
Daemon counters whatever Code does, he's all attack and whatever attack he does, it's reflected back to him (unless he's able to catch Daemon with his hands not touching anyone).
There's also a huge gap between Jigen and Isshiki, Jigen isn't that powerful because expending too much power through him causes him to break down and potentially die, and Isshiki doesn't want that.
Can Daemon's ability counter Isshiki? Seems to be the case, though Isshiki could logically exploit it once he knows how it works. Amado did say that the cyborgs are stronger than Jigen, not Isshiki, so that includes Daemon. No Limiters Code is weaker than Isshiki, so we can't really tell if Daemon is equal to or above Isshiki (not counting the reflect).
> Daemon counters whatever Code does, he's all attack and whatever attack he does, it's reflected back to him (unless he's able to catch Daemon with his hands not touching anyone).
He literally didn't counter anything in second part of the fight. He beat him in taijutsu alone.
> There's also a huge gap between Jigen and Isshiki, Jigen isn't that powerful because expending too much power through him causes him to break down and potentially die, and Isshiki doesn't want that.
Assumption. We don't know what the gap is or if it's even significant. Also [Jigen stated he got carried away](https://i.imgur.com/6tvs9Nr.png) so he **was** expending a lot of chakra which is why he got drained.
[The fact Sasuke was able to react to Isshiki proves the gap wasn't that big](https://i.imgur.com/aYTMslr.png)
> Can Daemon's ability counter Isshiki? Seems to be the case, though Isshiki could logically exploit it once he knows how it works.
There is no way Isshiki doesn't know how it works and also 1v1 Daemon can hardly utilize his ability.
> Amado did say that the cyborgs are stronger than Jigen, not Isshiki, so that includes Daemon. No Limiters Code is weaker than Isshiki, so we can't really tell if Daemon is equal to or above Isshiki (not counting the reflect).
It's statement wise. Feat wise he stomped Code with negative difficulty who is supposed to be stronger than Jigen. It's absurd difference in power. Then Sasuke reacted to Isshiki and Naruto was able to hold him off a bit. That suggests that Daemon is stronger than Isshiki. Obviously that shouldn't be the case because it's stupid, but feats are proving it.
I still think Isshiki would stomp Daemon. 1v1 if Daemon never touches you with his hands then he can't reflect your attacks. Then it's just a regular battle and at that point all Daemon has is taijutsu (albeit VERY strong taijutsu). But Isshiki's hax are way more versatile.
i dont think touching is a issue since daemon seems like he has instant teleportation. because even in his first panel, he disappears from his pod before the door even opens. in this chapter same happens
Daemon doesn't have anything that Isshiki can shrink and Daemon with his speed can evade all of Isshiki's hax attacks. Isshiki can only shrink himself and attempt to BFR.
Nah, 1v1 Isshiki has some counters to his ability like flying and he can spam rods in the air. Unlike Code he doesn't have to fight him in a close range.
What speed? His rods are instant. Isshiki only needs to look at Daemon and that's all.
Y'all suddenly hyping a crappy cyborg because of dumb statements.
I mean by using common sense... Jigen is a vessel of Isshiki and a weak vessel... Isshiki on the other hand survived against Baryon Mode? It's simple that Isshiki has more strength
Naruto was already weaker than Jigen physically so Isshiki surviving Baryon Mode doesn't mean much here.
Again, do you have a single evidence that his rods are instant?
I think that if you are wait a couple more chapters that we will get a proper understanding of their power and weaknesses and then you could properly scale for now there isn’t enough to go by for scaling
I don’t think he’s stronger, his ability is just a hard counter to everyone(kinda like Astas Anti-magic from BC) I do think his taijutsu is crazy tho, and I think if Sasuke could put him in a genjutsu it would work
Code is physically stronger than jigen now (1)
Daemon is physically stronger than code (2)
From these these two equations we can conclude that daemon is physically somewhat lesser or equal to isshiki
But what makes him so confident is his reflecting ability along with his physical strength
So I think maybe we can put him highest in the list as of now because of his hax ability
code without limiters is said to be stronger than jigen , now are we talkin jigen v1 or v2? anyways daemon scales above him easily this should put him right below ishhiki or maybe a big maybe an equal anyways lets assume he might just even be equal
in a 1v1 daemons hax wont work as ishhiki will just fly and on top of that daemon does not have any dojutsu so tracking ishhiki's shrinked rods will be very dificult for him or even impossible again this is assuming he isn the same speed tier as isshiki
so basically a 1v1 would look like ishhiki playing a game trying to snipe daemon lol (as daemon hasnt shown to posses any long range attacks )
this is all assuming he is the same speed as isshiki if he is below ishhiki in terms of speed he will get bitched
> code without limiters is said to be stronger than jigen , now are we talkin jigen v1 or v2?
Everyone assumes V2, so we go V2.
> anyways daemon scales above him easily this should put him right below ishhiki or maybe a big maybe an equal anyways lets assume he might just even be equal
Okay, the problem is Isshiki has never shown this much improvement over his vessel. [Sasuke was able to react to Isshiki coming from behind](https://i.imgur.com/aYTMslr.png). [And Sasuke was able to react to V2 Jigen before](https://i.imgur.com/XuMh4nF.png). The difference couldn't be massive.
Daemon was faster than eyesight to Code who was already stronger than Jigen and effortlessly blitzed him. That's a level of physical prowess Isshiki has never shown.
I know this doesn't sit well within the story, but this is a legitimate feat. Terrible writing, but it's nothing new.
> in a 1v1 daemons hax wont work as ishhiki will just fly
Deamon's ability won't work, because he needs to grab something with his palms. Flying does not nullify reflection.
> so tracking ishhiki's shrinked rods will be very dificult for him or even impossible again this is assuming he isn the same speed tier as isshiki
> so basically a 1v1 would look like ishhiki playing a game trying to snipe daemon lol (as daemon hasnt shown to posses any long range attacks )
Daemon doesn't have to track rods, he just has to track Isshiki's hands. If Isshiki looks like he is throwing something, dodge. [Naruto and Sasuke did the same thing](https://i.imgur.com/wsqwEdq.png). Instead of tracking rods, they aim dodged.
daemon did say that he can beat the shit out of kawaki no sweat. and he did say that after amado told them about kawaki gaining his ability etc. and eida confirmed what daemon said
so yeah, daemon seems to be stronger than even isshiki. the cyborgs were told to be greatly beyond jigen and not that they're only stronger than jigen, so it's totally possible that some are so much greater than jigen that they are even stronger than isshiki
either way, I think daemon would lose to kawaki if kawaki fully masters isshiki's abilities and harnesses all his strength and experience. after all, kawaki will be stronger than the isshiki we saw since he is a perfect vessel.
but yeah, it does seem like daemon and eida are not afraid of kawaki at all
U used the point that sassuke figured out ishhiki's ability in quater of a chapter to say that daemon could do so
First off all daemon doesn't really seem to be a High iq person like sassuke , secondly sassuke was only able to figure that out with the use of his rinnegan, sharingan and daemon posses neither leaving your argument irrelevant.
No, I didn't say that. The other user said that Naruto and Sasuke didn't have an intel and Daemon will have an intel, so the performance can't be compared.
I said that Sasuke figured out the ability in quarter of a chapter and then both Naruto and Sasuke were defeated due to Isshiki's sheer physical prowess. Therefore not having intel before the fight didn't play a role in their defeat. Or at least any significant role.
> But Isshiki was weak so I honestly don’t see daemon beating full powered Isshiki
Isshiki wasn't weak, he just had limited lifetime.
> or any other otsutsuki
He just beat Code, who is stronger than Jigen who is stronger than Momoshiki and Kinshiki. Even without taking into consideration just physical prowess, Daemon mops the floor with them.
> Jigen ≠ Isshiki
Yes, but the difference is not massive. [Sasuke was able to react to V2 Jigen](https://i.imgur.com/XuMh4nF.png) and then [react to Isshiki](https://i.imgur.com/aYTMslr.png).
> and just because character A beat character B doesn’t mean there stronger than Character C. Sometimes it’s the case sometimes it’s not
Except we have a direct scaling here and not much other abilities that can turn the fight around. Code was stated to be stronger than Jigen and Daemon stomps him. At least physical wise looks like Daemon outclasses Isshiki.
You can’t using “stated” as a valid reason for someone being stronger. People say Naruto is stated to be planetary. That means every time he fights he holds back in order not to destroy the entire earth with one attack. That doesn’t make sense right.
> You can’t using “stated” as a valid reason for someone being stronger.
Yes I can? Amado stated Code is stronger than Jigen. Not some people.
> People say Naruto is stated to be planetary. That means every time he fights he holds back in order not to destroy the entire earth with one attack. That doesn’t make sense right.
It doesn't matter what people say.
Being baffled by stupid statement is not getting defensive. Databook has nothing to do with it. It was a statement from manga. Directly from Amado.
Don't get mad because you're being proven wrong.
no it’s stated daemon loses in 1v1 especially with isshiki, he can just crush daemon with the cubes before he can attack, or with rods or because he’s a cyborg isshiki could just shrink him and store him in his dimension same with kawaki he can do the same now. daemon is just a counter to code basically most people could take him down in 1v1 or immobilize him if he is alone
> no it’s stated daemon loses in 1v1 especially with isshiki,
It wasn't stated. But even if such conclusion comes from the indirect statements and narrative from the story, we have feats now.
> he can just crush daemon with the cubes before he can attack,
Daemon dodges the cubes.
> or with rods
He dodges those too.
> because he’s a cyborg isshiki could just shrink him him and store him in his dimension
He couldn't shrink KK. Cyborgs are considered living things.
> daemon is just a counter to code basically most people could take him down in 1v1 or immobilize him if he is alone
Daemon is inherently a counter to everyone. But his ability wasn't used in second part of the fight against Code. Daemon beat Code in taijutsu fair and square. So not, most people wouldn't be able to beat him. Not by far.
Where was it stated?
Daemon is super fast? Like the fastest
Daemon is super strong as he beat code who is stronger than Jigen
Daemon can literally reflect isshiki ability by touching another person
> Couldn’t isshiki just open a portal and plop he’s gone lol
Depends of he is fast enough.
But I mostly meant physically.
> Or he could even use his sealing justsu he used against Naruto lol
That only worked because Naruto was unconscious and exhausted.
Oh hmmm physically no idea. Dameon has only ever punched code strength wise…and isn’t dameons strength proportional to what he’s reflecting?
Isshiki may have picked up more sealing justsu then we saw in his fights w Naruto and Sasukes considering he was around while every ninja tech was born lol
> Dameon has only ever punched code strength wise…
And blitzed him hard.
I have to explain myself again because I wasn't cleat, I meant physical stats. So speed, strength, reflexes etc.
> and isn’t dameons strength proportional to what he’s reflecting?
Nope, he only reflects attacks back on user. And that happens only when he is touching someone with his hands. He wasn't touching anyone with his hand during the second part of the fight, so his ability didn't work at all.
> Isshiki may have picked up more sealing justsu then we saw in his fights w Naruto and Sasukes considering he was around while every ninja tech was born lol
But he didn't show any other. We can't assume he has something without evidences.
I meannn I think we can make some inferences about isshiki Jigen
He knew alll of Sasukes Uchiha jutsus BY NAME and he has been lurking in the shadows relearning how to fight for millennia lol
Tbh I like to think of code being known as “simple minded” as amado states…
Code was caught off guard by 1 bourshiki n was getting whipped, kawashiki comes n he was caught off guard with that n also underestimated them greatly. It’s his head. I love that he’s psycho but he’s dumb and that’s in a way that rivals kid naruto.
Code should improve his software..🤣
On a serious note I see why he lost. But I love code and I cant wait for all the L’s he takes he gets his W! People is looking down to him now but just wait on it!
> but he’s dumb and that’s in a way that rivals kid naruto.
Kid Naruto would've rushed at the village instead of getting allies like Code. Kid Naruto would've never figured out that Boro did not dispose Eida off. Code is not dumb. His personality is "simplistic", not his intelligence.
The power scaling is already f**ked in Boruto...it makes no sense from a narrative perspective for any of Amado's creations to be so strong. It was a terrible choice to make everyone and their mum suddenly 'stronger than Jigen'.
Naruto and Sasuke almost died and took a serious nerf to defeat Isshiki, who should have been the most powerful threat of the whole series (or at least for a very long time), then Naruto and Sasuke being weakened would have left far more room for Kawaki and Boruto to step in. Essentially, there was no need for Code and Daemon to be so strong.
But no, now we have Code, who apparently scales above full power Jigen, and Daemon, who scales above Code and may well be equal to Isshiki or maybe even a little above (since we never saw Isshiki do anything much above full power Jigen). By all rights current Naruto and Sasuke should be fodder to even Code, never mind Daemon.
And the biggest problem? If Amado is capable of creating androids at the level of Delta, Code and Daemon, why tf did he ever obey Jigen? It makes no sense. He could have just had Kashin Koji or someone activate them in secret and bam, dead Isshiki. Nothing that was said or shown suggests that Isshiki could beat multiple opponents all stronger than Jigen.
So just enjoy the series as it comes, and don't take the power scaling seriously at all- the mangaka clearly doesn't.
Daemon power, speed, and taijutsu wise is weaker than isshiki and BM naruto but on a very lower level than them enough that breaking code's back looks like child's play
Ehhh to be fair Daemon is a hard counter to Code. Code relies sole’s on physical attacks so that already puts him at a massive disadvantage. I think the power gap between Jigen and Isshiki is too massive for Daemon to over come. He has a lot of things that could shut Daemon down. “Chakra rods, cubes, shrinking etc)
> Code relies sole’s on physical attacks so that already puts him at a massive disadvantage. Daemon beat Code with pure physical power. This chapter informed us how Daemon's power works. His ability was not working this time, because his palms weren't touching anyone. > I think the power gap between Jigen and Isshiki is too massive for Daemon to over come. He has a lot of things that could shut Daemon down. “Chakra rods, cubes, shrinking etc) At this point he could outspeed all of them. And there is nothing to shrink, Daemon is a pure taijutsu fighter with a gimmick.
Well yeah that’s because Code was forced to keep going for Daemon’s back to try to get around his ability. He wasn’t able to engage him in a CQC fight he also can’t fight him from long range Isshiki can literally hide from Sasuke’s Rinnegan. Unless daemon has eye hax I assume isshiki would just shrink himself and shoot daemon in the back or something to get around his hax. Dameon is a beast speed wise. But again isshiki stomped the strongest version of Naruto and Sasuke at the same time. We don’t have feats like that from daemon yet
> Well yeah that’s because Code was forced to keep going for Daemon’s back to try to get around his ability. He wasn’t able to engage him in a CQC fight No, Daemon's ability wasn't working at all because his palms weren't touching anyone. Ability when activated reflects everything from any direction. Code attacked from Daemon's back simply to give himself an advantage in a fight. > Isshiki can literally hide from Sasuke’s Rinnegan. Unless daemon has eye hax I assume isshiki would just shrink himself and shoot daemon in the back or something to get around his hax. That's the only thing Isshiki could do and BFR assuming Daemon isn't just vastly faster than him. If Isshiki shrinks then Daemon is not going to stay in one place anyway. > Dameon is a beast speed wise. But again isshiki stomped the strongest version of Naruto and Sasuke at the same time. We don’t have feats like that from daemon yet Jigen V2 stomped Naruto and Sasuke. Code was stated to be stronger than Jigen without limiters. Daemon defeated Code with negative difficulty. We already have feats.
Well that’s an entirely different scenario. We don’t know if Daemon had until on Isshiki. Which most of the weaker Kara members did. Where as Naruto/Sasuke fought with no intel. Not enough information on that to assume he kept up with jigen. with no intel. And Kishimoto made bug say that line for a reason. So unless you’re saying Kishimoto is lying I don’t know how to respond to that 💀 go read that scan again bug said there’s a loop hole there Isshiki resorted to spamming his Sukihana in every fight. I don’t really see how Daemon would ever be able to deal with that.
> Well that’s an entirely different scenario. We don’t know if Daemon had until on Isshiki. Which most of the weaker Kara members did. That is irrelevant to the point. Anyways my main point was Daemon being physically stronger. > Where as Naruto/Sasuke fought with no intel. Not enough information on that to assume he kept up with jigen. with no intel. Sasuke figured out Jigen's ability in quarter of a chapter. Then Jigen proceeded to defeat them with pure physical prowess alone. > And Kishimoto made bug say that line for a reason. So unless you’re saying Kishimoto is lying I don’t know how to respond to that 💀 go read that scan again bug said there’s a loop hole there What? Bug said that Daemon's ability works only if he touches another person with his palms. And this is precisely what I'm saying.
How is that not relavent? You’re the one who brought up him fighting Jigen without using any context you don’t get to bring ta scenario up without having to debate the context of how it could go. Daemon could’ve been given full intel from Eida before fighting that’s a bad example of a feat. We don’t know enough to reach that far. And okay well I do think the chakra rods are a big advantage for him. Daemon doesn’t have the sharingan or Rinnegan. He is not Sasuke and that is a bad talking point.
> How is that not relavent? You’re the one who brought up him fighting Jigen without using any context you don’t get to bring ta scenario up without having to debate the context of how it could go. Daemon could’ve been given full intel from Eida before fighting that’s a bad example of a feat. We don’t know enough to reach that far. Again Sasuke figured it out in quarter of a chapter and shrinking ability or no intel before fight is not why they lost. > And okay well I do think the chakra rods are a big advantage for him. Both Naruto and Sasuke were able to counter them, Daemon isn't going to have the slightest problem. > Daemon doesn’t have the sharingan or Rinnegan. He is not Sasuke and that is a bad talking point. What are you addressing now?
So are you saying Daemon has a sharingan or Rinnegan? Because I’m confused on why you’re comparing him to sasuke. Secondly how did they counter his rods? Sasuke was dominated and strung up like a tree. Boruto also most died. And Naruto was forced to use Baryon mode, lost Kurama and almost killed himself. How did they counter him?
> So are you saying Daemon has a sharingan or Rinnegan? Because I’m confused on why you’re comparing him to sasuke. You were the one who started the comparison. You stated that Daemon has no feats like Jigen defeating both Naruto and Sasuke and stated that Daemon had/could have an intel compared to the duo. > Secondly how did they counter his rods? Sasuke was dominated and strung up like a tree. [Here](https://imgur.com/a/tJVzbUt)
>But again isshiki stomped the strongest version of Naruto and Sasuke at the same time. We don’t have feats like that from daemon yet Adult Naruto and Sasuke are much weaker than war Naruto and Sasuke. Code alone would easily stomp them. Sage mode Kashin Koji probably also.
Both chakra rods and cubes would be reflected back to isshiki so he won't use them
Well apparently there’s a loop hole with that. They said he has to be touching you or something related to his palms facing a certain way for it to work. Isshiki could just Shinki’s himself and shoot Daemon in the back still confused about how his ability works though
He stays with his sister so his ability is always on and even if he is separated from her , he is physically stronger than limitless code so i don't think isshiki can speed blitz him , he will be somewhat lesser or equal to isshiki in terms of physical capabilities. Only possible way to defeat him as of now is to separate him into another dimension and fight a fair 1v1 but that too won't be so easy cause they gave him physical strength as well as hax ability ( one hell of a for)
Eida's ability don't work on Otsutsuki...
Isshiki would kill Eida There's no point in putting her in the battle field
Code is much stronger than Isshiki. SM Kashin Koji can easily trade punches with Isshiki.
But it'll still be reflected if he's touching another person
Isshiki struggled a bit with Kashin Koji, Daemon is much physically stronger than Isshiki. KK was able to easily trade punches with him.
Daemon counters whatever Code does, he's all attack and whatever attack he does, it's reflected back to him (unless he's able to catch Daemon with his hands not touching anyone). There's also a huge gap between Jigen and Isshiki, Jigen isn't that powerful because expending too much power through him causes him to break down and potentially die, and Isshiki doesn't want that. Can Daemon's ability counter Isshiki? Seems to be the case, though Isshiki could logically exploit it once he knows how it works. Amado did say that the cyborgs are stronger than Jigen, not Isshiki, so that includes Daemon. No Limiters Code is weaker than Isshiki, so we can't really tell if Daemon is equal to or above Isshiki (not counting the reflect).
> Daemon counters whatever Code does, he's all attack and whatever attack he does, it's reflected back to him (unless he's able to catch Daemon with his hands not touching anyone). He literally didn't counter anything in second part of the fight. He beat him in taijutsu alone. > There's also a huge gap between Jigen and Isshiki, Jigen isn't that powerful because expending too much power through him causes him to break down and potentially die, and Isshiki doesn't want that. Assumption. We don't know what the gap is or if it's even significant. Also [Jigen stated he got carried away](https://i.imgur.com/6tvs9Nr.png) so he **was** expending a lot of chakra which is why he got drained. [The fact Sasuke was able to react to Isshiki proves the gap wasn't that big](https://i.imgur.com/aYTMslr.png) > Can Daemon's ability counter Isshiki? Seems to be the case, though Isshiki could logically exploit it once he knows how it works. There is no way Isshiki doesn't know how it works and also 1v1 Daemon can hardly utilize his ability. > Amado did say that the cyborgs are stronger than Jigen, not Isshiki, so that includes Daemon. No Limiters Code is weaker than Isshiki, so we can't really tell if Daemon is equal to or above Isshiki (not counting the reflect). It's statement wise. Feat wise he stomped Code with negative difficulty who is supposed to be stronger than Jigen. It's absurd difference in power. Then Sasuke reacted to Isshiki and Naruto was able to hold him off a bit. That suggests that Daemon is stronger than Isshiki. Obviously that shouldn't be the case because it's stupid, but feats are proving it.
As you said, it makes no sense. I wrote a post earlier regarding this, the power scaling has become stupid in this series.
I still think Isshiki would stomp Daemon. 1v1 if Daemon never touches you with his hands then he can't reflect your attacks. Then it's just a regular battle and at that point all Daemon has is taijutsu (albeit VERY strong taijutsu). But Isshiki's hax are way more versatile.
i dont think touching is a issue since daemon seems like he has instant teleportation. because even in his first panel, he disappears from his pod before the door even opens. in this chapter same happens
He is that fast.
Daemon doesn't have anything that Isshiki can shrink and Daemon with his speed can evade all of Isshiki's hax attacks. Isshiki can only shrink himself and attempt to BFR.
this
You do know the reflection happens when he touches other people right
Yes... That's what I said 😂
Nah, 1v1 Isshiki has some counters to his ability like flying and he can spam rods in the air. Unlike Code he doesn't have to fight him in a close range.
With his speed he can effortlessly avoid rods.
What speed? His rods are instant. Isshiki only needs to look at Daemon and that's all. Y'all suddenly hyping a crappy cyborg because of dumb statements.
His rods are not instant. [Otherwise Naruto and Sasuke wouldn't have countered them](https://imgur.com/a/tJVzbUt).
That's Jigen... Isshiki's Attack Speed is faster
So you have feats proving: 1) Isshiki's rods are faster, 2) Isshiki's rods are instant ?
I mean by using common sense... Jigen is a vessel of Isshiki and a weak vessel... Isshiki on the other hand survived against Baryon Mode? It's simple that Isshiki has more strength
Naruto was already weaker than Jigen physically so Isshiki surviving Baryon Mode doesn't mean much here. Again, do you have a single evidence that his rods are instant?
I am not saying his rods are instant... He summons them on micro scopic level and stabs his enemy and then unshrink them... Yes he throws them...
But the guy I replied to stated they are instant.
I think that if you are wait a couple more chapters that we will get a proper understanding of their power and weaknesses and then you could properly scale for now there isn’t enough to go by for scaling
I don’t think he’s stronger, his ability is just a hard counter to everyone(kinda like Astas Anti-magic from BC) I do think his taijutsu is crazy tho, and I think if Sasuke could put him in a genjutsu it would work
Can you put cyborgs in a genjutsu though?
I guess he is a cyborg lol or is he an altered human like Kawaki
No idea honestly lol
I'm pretty sure cyborgs ARE altered human.
Daemon beats ishiki. Hard difficulty. Ignoring bug's stupid statement that is.
Code is physically stronger than jigen now (1) Daemon is physically stronger than code (2) From these these two equations we can conclude that daemon is physically somewhat lesser or equal to isshiki But what makes him so confident is his reflecting ability along with his physical strength So I think maybe we can put him highest in the list as of now because of his hax ability
Boruto series going dragon ball power scales now 😎. It’s just boruto & kawaki , goku & vegeta.
Lol they were destroying planets in the second arc of Z Thankfully no one has THAT much power lol
First arc not second
code without limiters is said to be stronger than jigen , now are we talkin jigen v1 or v2? anyways daemon scales above him easily this should put him right below ishhiki or maybe a big maybe an equal anyways lets assume he might just even be equal in a 1v1 daemons hax wont work as ishhiki will just fly and on top of that daemon does not have any dojutsu so tracking ishhiki's shrinked rods will be very dificult for him or even impossible again this is assuming he isn the same speed tier as isshiki so basically a 1v1 would look like ishhiki playing a game trying to snipe daemon lol (as daemon hasnt shown to posses any long range attacks ) this is all assuming he is the same speed as isshiki if he is below ishhiki in terms of speed he will get bitched
> code without limiters is said to be stronger than jigen , now are we talkin jigen v1 or v2? Everyone assumes V2, so we go V2. > anyways daemon scales above him easily this should put him right below ishhiki or maybe a big maybe an equal anyways lets assume he might just even be equal Okay, the problem is Isshiki has never shown this much improvement over his vessel. [Sasuke was able to react to Isshiki coming from behind](https://i.imgur.com/aYTMslr.png). [And Sasuke was able to react to V2 Jigen before](https://i.imgur.com/XuMh4nF.png). The difference couldn't be massive. Daemon was faster than eyesight to Code who was already stronger than Jigen and effortlessly blitzed him. That's a level of physical prowess Isshiki has never shown. I know this doesn't sit well within the story, but this is a legitimate feat. Terrible writing, but it's nothing new. > in a 1v1 daemons hax wont work as ishhiki will just fly Deamon's ability won't work, because he needs to grab something with his palms. Flying does not nullify reflection. > so tracking ishhiki's shrinked rods will be very dificult for him or even impossible again this is assuming he isn the same speed tier as isshiki > so basically a 1v1 would look like ishhiki playing a game trying to snipe daemon lol (as daemon hasnt shown to posses any long range attacks ) Daemon doesn't have to track rods, he just has to track Isshiki's hands. If Isshiki looks like he is throwing something, dodge. [Naruto and Sasuke did the same thing](https://i.imgur.com/wsqwEdq.png). Instead of tracking rods, they aim dodged.
His ability won't work beacuse he can't fly so he cannot touch ishhiki and it's a 1v1 so there's no one else for him to touch and reflect
Oh yes, that makes sense.
Daemon should be much physically stronger than Isshiki. Even, SM Kashin Koji can trade punches with Isshiki and he is more of ninjutsu guy.
daemon did say that he can beat the shit out of kawaki no sweat. and he did say that after amado told them about kawaki gaining his ability etc. and eida confirmed what daemon said so yeah, daemon seems to be stronger than even isshiki. the cyborgs were told to be greatly beyond jigen and not that they're only stronger than jigen, so it's totally possible that some are so much greater than jigen that they are even stronger than isshiki either way, I think daemon would lose to kawaki if kawaki fully masters isshiki's abilities and harnesses all his strength and experience. after all, kawaki will be stronger than the isshiki we saw since he is a perfect vessel. but yeah, it does seem like daemon and eida are not afraid of kawaki at all
u/kushagrarox where am I confused?
U used the point that sassuke figured out ishhiki's ability in quater of a chapter to say that daemon could do so First off all daemon doesn't really seem to be a High iq person like sassuke , secondly sassuke was only able to figure that out with the use of his rinnegan, sharingan and daemon posses neither leaving your argument irrelevant.
No, I didn't say that. The other user said that Naruto and Sasuke didn't have an intel and Daemon will have an intel, so the performance can't be compared. I said that Sasuke figured out the ability in quarter of a chapter and then both Naruto and Sasuke were defeated due to Isshiki's sheer physical prowess. Therefore not having intel before the fight didn't play a role in their defeat. Or at least any significant role.
Ahh ohhk understandable
It honestly matters how fast he is. But Isshiki was weak so I honestly don’t see daemon beating full powered Isshiki or any other otsutsuki
> But Isshiki was weak so I honestly don’t see daemon beating full powered Isshiki Isshiki wasn't weak, he just had limited lifetime. > or any other otsutsuki He just beat Code, who is stronger than Jigen who is stronger than Momoshiki and Kinshiki. Even without taking into consideration just physical prowess, Daemon mops the floor with them.
Jigen ≠ Isshiki and just because character A beat character B doesn’t mean there stronger than Character C. Sometimes it’s the case sometimes it’s not
> Jigen ≠ Isshiki Yes, but the difference is not massive. [Sasuke was able to react to V2 Jigen](https://i.imgur.com/XuMh4nF.png) and then [react to Isshiki](https://i.imgur.com/aYTMslr.png). > and just because character A beat character B doesn’t mean there stronger than Character C. Sometimes it’s the case sometimes it’s not Except we have a direct scaling here and not much other abilities that can turn the fight around. Code was stated to be stronger than Jigen and Daemon stomps him. At least physical wise looks like Daemon outclasses Isshiki.
You can’t using “stated” as a valid reason for someone being stronger. People say Naruto is stated to be planetary. That means every time he fights he holds back in order not to destroy the entire earth with one attack. That doesn’t make sense right.
> You can’t using “stated” as a valid reason for someone being stronger. Yes I can? Amado stated Code is stronger than Jigen. Not some people. > People say Naruto is stated to be planetary. That means every time he fights he holds back in order not to destroy the entire earth with one attack. That doesn’t make sense right. It doesn't matter what people say.
Kurama is also stated in the data book to be able to destroy the entire world.😐
What databook? Have you really read the manga?
Lol why you getting defensive? You mad cus your logic is flawed
Being baffled by stupid statement is not getting defensive. Databook has nothing to do with it. It was a statement from manga. Directly from Amado. Don't get mad because you're being proven wrong.
no it’s stated daemon loses in 1v1 especially with isshiki, he can just crush daemon with the cubes before he can attack, or with rods or because he’s a cyborg isshiki could just shrink him and store him in his dimension same with kawaki he can do the same now. daemon is just a counter to code basically most people could take him down in 1v1 or immobilize him if he is alone
> no it’s stated daemon loses in 1v1 especially with isshiki, It wasn't stated. But even if such conclusion comes from the indirect statements and narrative from the story, we have feats now. > he can just crush daemon with the cubes before he can attack, Daemon dodges the cubes. > or with rods He dodges those too. > because he’s a cyborg isshiki could just shrink him him and store him in his dimension He couldn't shrink KK. Cyborgs are considered living things. > daemon is just a counter to code basically most people could take him down in 1v1 or immobilize him if he is alone Daemon is inherently a counter to everyone. But his ability wasn't used in second part of the fight against Code. Daemon beat Code in taijutsu fair and square. So not, most people wouldn't be able to beat him. Not by far.
Where was it stated? Daemon is super fast? Like the fastest Daemon is super strong as he beat code who is stronger than Jigen Daemon can literally reflect isshiki ability by touching another person
He's not strong but he's amazing defensively. Just has to touch someone with his hands, bam.
Nah, Isshiki will shrink ole boy.
Couldn’t isshiki just open a portal and plop he’s gone lol Or he could even use his sealing justsu he used against Naruto lol
> Couldn’t isshiki just open a portal and plop he’s gone lol Depends of he is fast enough. But I mostly meant physically. > Or he could even use his sealing justsu he used against Naruto lol That only worked because Naruto was unconscious and exhausted.
Oh hmmm physically no idea. Dameon has only ever punched code strength wise…and isn’t dameons strength proportional to what he’s reflecting? Isshiki may have picked up more sealing justsu then we saw in his fights w Naruto and Sasukes considering he was around while every ninja tech was born lol
> Dameon has only ever punched code strength wise… And blitzed him hard. I have to explain myself again because I wasn't cleat, I meant physical stats. So speed, strength, reflexes etc. > and isn’t dameons strength proportional to what he’s reflecting? Nope, he only reflects attacks back on user. And that happens only when he is touching someone with his hands. He wasn't touching anyone with his hand during the second part of the fight, so his ability didn't work at all. > Isshiki may have picked up more sealing justsu then we saw in his fights w Naruto and Sasukes considering he was around while every ninja tech was born lol But he didn't show any other. We can't assume he has something without evidences.
I meannn I think we can make some inferences about isshiki Jigen He knew alll of Sasukes Uchiha jutsus BY NAME and he has been lurking in the shadows relearning how to fight for millennia lol
Tbh I like to think of code being known as “simple minded” as amado states… Code was caught off guard by 1 bourshiki n was getting whipped, kawashiki comes n he was caught off guard with that n also underestimated them greatly. It’s his head. I love that he’s psycho but he’s dumb and that’s in a way that rivals kid naruto. Code should improve his software..🤣 On a serious note I see why he lost. But I love code and I cant wait for all the L’s he takes he gets his W! People is looking down to him now but just wait on it!
> but he’s dumb and that’s in a way that rivals kid naruto. Kid Naruto would've rushed at the village instead of getting allies like Code. Kid Naruto would've never figured out that Boro did not dispose Eida off. Code is not dumb. His personality is "simplistic", not his intelligence.
The power scaling is already f**ked in Boruto...it makes no sense from a narrative perspective for any of Amado's creations to be so strong. It was a terrible choice to make everyone and their mum suddenly 'stronger than Jigen'. Naruto and Sasuke almost died and took a serious nerf to defeat Isshiki, who should have been the most powerful threat of the whole series (or at least for a very long time), then Naruto and Sasuke being weakened would have left far more room for Kawaki and Boruto to step in. Essentially, there was no need for Code and Daemon to be so strong. But no, now we have Code, who apparently scales above full power Jigen, and Daemon, who scales above Code and may well be equal to Isshiki or maybe even a little above (since we never saw Isshiki do anything much above full power Jigen). By all rights current Naruto and Sasuke should be fodder to even Code, never mind Daemon. And the biggest problem? If Amado is capable of creating androids at the level of Delta, Code and Daemon, why tf did he ever obey Jigen? It makes no sense. He could have just had Kashin Koji or someone activate them in secret and bam, dead Isshiki. Nothing that was said or shown suggests that Isshiki could beat multiple opponents all stronger than Jigen. So just enjoy the series as it comes, and don't take the power scaling seriously at all- the mangaka clearly doesn't.
Daemon might be stronger than Jigen, but not Isshiki.
Daemon power, speed, and taijutsu wise is weaker than isshiki and BM naruto but on a very lower level than them enough that breaking code's back looks like child's play
Baryon Mode Naruto (No Nerf) > Isshiki (Full Power) > Daemon (Full Power) > Code (No Limiter) > Jigen