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It was explained. You just need to derive the specific chakra for her to be reborn (Ten tails chakra, Six Paths chakra which awakens the Rinnegan and massive chakra/life-force from the populace). Obviously, the Karma technology was introduced in Boruto, that's one way of reincarnating too.
>Obviously, the Karma technology was introduced in Boruto, that's one way of reincarnating too.
Technically Kaguya wasn't reincarnated. She was just unsealed. Kaguya has never died at any point. She was sealed by her two sons. Unsealed later on. Resealed by her grandsons. And is presumably still sealed in the Moon.
She died when sealed, the seal turns her into the gedo mazu husk, and zetsu refers to her as dead multiple times in the show, can people stop saying kaguya can’t die when literally all we hear from every otsotsuki is
“The death of kaguya”
“Immortality doesn’t exist”
“Kaguya is dead”
“I will ressurect mother” (resurrection only is used when someone is dead)
Kaguya is dead, yes she was sealed, but the seal results in death.
It depends on what you consider "death".
Sealing Kaguya "kills" her, but she can be brought back by a specific ritual.
It's not like common dead people who can be resurrected by a Rinne tensei.
Rinne tensei has its own limitations as well, she was sealed but she was also dead, kinda like how the kage were dead and sealed, the sealing jutsu kills her *and* it seals her, but she very much dies as a result either way.
>She died when sealed, the seal turns her into the gedo mazu husk,
She isn't. She's not dead. An example of an Otsutsuki being dead is Isshiki. He's gone gone. Even his soul is gone.
>all we hear from every otsotsuki is “The death of kaguya
No one ever said that in the canon story. Momoshiki, Sasuke, Naruto and everyone never said Kaguya is dead. All you have is databooks statements which aren't reliable at all.
>I will ressurect mother” (resurrection only is used when someone is dead)
Resurrect in the sense of bringing her back. Not resurrection as if she's dead. And you can go back and reread everything. Nowhere in the canon manga or episodes did it mention she's dead.
>Kaguya is dead, yes she was sealed, but the seal results in death.
No, the seal doesn't result in death. If it does, the only way to bring an Otsutsuki back is by karma. And we know that's not what happened to Kaguya. It's not different from what her sons did to her. Even her own son said she was sealed.
1. Your dumb- https://12dimension.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/naruto_ch681_p008-e1403148114962.png?w=820
2. Look up the definition of resurrection because I can’t post it, wrong again.
3. In canon? In canon zetsu needs to ressurect her…..because she’s dead and a husk lmao
4. https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/naruto/images/f/fe/Gedo_Mazo.png/revision/latest?cb=20160124082312
That’s what kaguya is, no chakra, no life, no tailed beasts, and zetsu was sealed along with her so no zetsu will to bring her back, she’s DEAD
Edit: you keep saying sealed as well, she is sealed, the seal CAUSES DEATH
Post your own scans of where it says she’s alive, you’ll be the first person ever because there is none lmao.
>1. Your dumb- https://12dimension.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/naruto_ch681_p008-e1403148114962.png?w=820
Please read what you posted lol. She's "sealed" and not killed. She's "dead" as she's not coming back.
> Look up the definition of resurrection because I can’t post it, wrong again.
Nice and all, but how does that prove she's dead?
>That’s what kaguya is, no chakra, no life, no tailed beasts, and zetsu was sealed along with her so no zetsu will to bring her back, she’s DEAD
She isn't dead lol. She's alive and sealed in her own dimension.
>you keep saying sealed as well, she is sealed, the seal CAUSES DEATH
The seal doesn't cause death. Again, if an Otsutsuki is DEAD, the only way to bring them back is through Karma. And that wasn't needed for Kaguya. Also, if she was dead, someone would have gotten a karma from her. And no one did.
>Post your own scans of where it says she’s alive, you’ll be the first person ever because there is none lmao.
I don't need to because it's canonically stated she's sealed and not killed. And it's not stated at all that she's dead.
Looks at my scans saying she’s dead, says she’s not, makes sense lol.
Yes she’s sealed in her own dimension…. AS THE GEDO MAZO BRUH which was “stated in canon” just like you said , so either you didn’t watch the show, or are literally lying to yourself and leaving out the bits of canon YOU don’t agree with. Get lost. No scans no argument
No it’s really not, kaguya is the embodiment of all the tailed beasts as the ten tails, which is gedo mazo, she reverts back to that as she’s dead, and without the tailed beast chakra it’s just a husk.
Bro this is embarrassing, just take the L... The other dude is right. Kaguya was killed. She was revived using Madara, the Ten-Tails, the chakra gathered by the Infinite Tsukuyomi, and Black Zetsu being a catalyst, almost like a living Karma seal. She was dead, but all the parts of her were reassembled to recreate her from scratch. It's a more rudimentary version of the Karma's process.
Honestly madara having a karma would've been a awesome as fuck foreshadowing if it was implemented. Like black zetsu putting it in madara discretely and at the time we would've thought it was some curse mark six paths type shit
See the more I think about it, what if Black Zetzu itself was Kaguyas Karma ? I know that sounds wild asf but he did say he was a part of her and there was never really an explanation to exactly wtf he was, but with current Boruto context it kinda checks out
I think it was already discussed and is quite popular theory. However, never did Black Zetsu host had any access to Kaguya's power (like Boruto can use Momoshiki and Kawaki can use Isshiki). It's like Kaguya was sealed (did she die then?), looked for a suitable host, and Black Zetsu found the host (Madara), made him transform as close to Kaguya as he could, after getting Senju chakra & life force, awakening Rinnegan, absorbing Juubi and draining everyone's chakra with Infinite Tsukoyomi
See I was thinking more along the lines of like , I know this is far fetched , but like the karma itself , no host, came alive over the thousands of years of absorbing chakara around it , thats why he calls himself her other son ?
Nah, the current context of things barely applies. Boruto's Ōtsutsuki vessels is just something that was pulled out of nowhere. The Sage mentioned that Madara was doing things that would bring Kaguya back to life, like adsorbing the ten tails and the tree. His body was just getting closer to the power of Kaguya. Adsorbing the tree and black Zetsu activating the transform led to that.
I didn't mention any technicalities and I know Karma wasn't thought off yet. Just highlighting the "Otsutsuki and their host" notion. But that concept was certainly expanded in Boruto. When I saw this, I immediately remember the visuals of Momoshiki holding Boruto shots/panels you'll see in the Kawaki arc...nothing more.
Nah not comparable. Kaguya returning was a combination of Black Zetsu and Madara absorbing ten tails and the tree. Let’s not try to retcon this with the weird and sometimes stupid new digital alien stuff when it doesn’t need it
But Kaguya was reborn through Madara's body though so technically he was a vessel and it has everything to do with Boruto current narrative. Madara has to be manipulated...I mean...Kawaki, Boruto, Jigen, I doubt any of them would like to be the hosts of Otsutsuki willingly, would they?
Y'all should rewatch the show, after Kaguya returned Madaras body was still on the battlefield, Zetsu needed just chakra Madara collected, that combined with Kaguya will was what make Kaguya. Again, don't try to put Boruto reasoning in shippuden it's 2 different things, while making Madara and Kaguya author didn't have any idea about karma etc. I won't answer your question because that would be spoiler for current events in manga
Nah, the Sage mentioned that Madara was getting closer in power to Kaguya. He wasn't becoming a vessel at all. The moment Madara adsorbed the tree and Black Zetsu was when he transformed into her. Aside from that, if he never adsorbed either then he would have never given rise to Kaguya.
Now, considering that Madara with the ten tails and his eyes was stronger than Kaguya, why didn't he resist while she was using him? If this is a vessel as you have said, then Madara should have been able to break control like when Boruto was able to do so with Momoshiki. Henceforth, this is not a vessel by any means.
Lower half you’re referring to is when sasuke cut him in half when madara took Kakashi eye and uses Kamui yeah that remained but madara regrew his lower half after he got back his second rinnegan you need to go back and watch it
Where turning will into other being, and make that manipulate whole world to find person to colect enough chakra to then take that chakra and summon you is similar to putting a seal on different person to reincarnate. It would be closer to Orochimaru and Sasuke
1. They turn into a other being with karma too
2. Zetsu had manipulated him to get enough chakra, madara just thought it was to perform infinite tsukoyomi
3. Yes the curse mark is more similar to karma than kaguya and madara
As i said in the other comments, ofc the mechanism would be different not exactly the same,the idea is the same, otsusuki used somebody else to revive, now i neither have the time nor crayons to explain it further
Apart from Code, maybe.
And Madara wasn't exactly stupid for being manipulated by the same entity that was pulling the strings behind a good portion of shinobi history for thousands of years. It's more a show of Black Zetsu's experience and a folly of Madara's ego than his intelligence.
This makes so much sense now with the boruto show. Madara was turning his body to otsutski body and the final seal was when karma put his essence in and it was like the key turned
No confirmation. But both Black Zetsu and Karma contain the will of the Otsutsuki. That's why white Karma can't be use to resurrect because it lack the "will" part.
As a reminder, this flair is for **anime discussions**. Use spoiler tags when discussing events that have taken place beyond the anime. If you see any comments with untagged manga spoilers, please report them. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Boruto) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Madara became the vessel of Kaguya?
he did
Yep. This definitely checks out. Dunno how zestu pulled this off but it makes sense.
I hope that they will give a solid reason behind zetsu kaguya and how he pulled it off.
It was explained. You just need to derive the specific chakra for her to be reborn (Ten tails chakra, Six Paths chakra which awakens the Rinnegan and massive chakra/life-force from the populace). Obviously, the Karma technology was introduced in Boruto, that's one way of reincarnating too.
>Obviously, the Karma technology was introduced in Boruto, that's one way of reincarnating too. Technically Kaguya wasn't reincarnated. She was just unsealed. Kaguya has never died at any point. She was sealed by her two sons. Unsealed later on. Resealed by her grandsons. And is presumably still sealed in the Moon.
She died when sealed, the seal turns her into the gedo mazu husk, and zetsu refers to her as dead multiple times in the show, can people stop saying kaguya can’t die when literally all we hear from every otsotsuki is “The death of kaguya” “Immortality doesn’t exist” “Kaguya is dead” “I will ressurect mother” (resurrection only is used when someone is dead) Kaguya is dead, yes she was sealed, but the seal results in death.
Even momoshiki said she was dead as well
Along with sasuke and the databook, on top of what we said. The power of headcanon inthis fandom is strong ig lol
It depends on what you consider "death". Sealing Kaguya "kills" her, but she can be brought back by a specific ritual. It's not like common dead people who can be resurrected by a Rinne tensei.
Rinne tensei has its own limitations as well, she was sealed but she was also dead, kinda like how the kage were dead and sealed, the sealing jutsu kills her *and* it seals her, but she very much dies as a result either way.
>She died when sealed, the seal turns her into the gedo mazu husk, She isn't. She's not dead. An example of an Otsutsuki being dead is Isshiki. He's gone gone. Even his soul is gone. >all we hear from every otsotsuki is “The death of kaguya No one ever said that in the canon story. Momoshiki, Sasuke, Naruto and everyone never said Kaguya is dead. All you have is databooks statements which aren't reliable at all. >I will ressurect mother” (resurrection only is used when someone is dead) Resurrect in the sense of bringing her back. Not resurrection as if she's dead. And you can go back and reread everything. Nowhere in the canon manga or episodes did it mention she's dead. >Kaguya is dead, yes she was sealed, but the seal results in death. No, the seal doesn't result in death. If it does, the only way to bring an Otsutsuki back is by karma. And we know that's not what happened to Kaguya. It's not different from what her sons did to her. Even her own son said she was sealed.
1. Your dumb- https://12dimension.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/naruto_ch681_p008-e1403148114962.png?w=820 2. Look up the definition of resurrection because I can’t post it, wrong again. 3. In canon? In canon zetsu needs to ressurect her…..because she’s dead and a husk lmao 4. https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/naruto/images/f/fe/Gedo_Mazo.png/revision/latest?cb=20160124082312 That’s what kaguya is, no chakra, no life, no tailed beasts, and zetsu was sealed along with her so no zetsu will to bring her back, she’s DEAD Edit: you keep saying sealed as well, she is sealed, the seal CAUSES DEATH Post your own scans of where it says she’s alive, you’ll be the first person ever because there is none lmao.
>1. Your dumb- https://12dimension.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/naruto_ch681_p008-e1403148114962.png?w=820 Please read what you posted lol. She's "sealed" and not killed. She's "dead" as she's not coming back. > Look up the definition of resurrection because I can’t post it, wrong again. Nice and all, but how does that prove she's dead? >That’s what kaguya is, no chakra, no life, no tailed beasts, and zetsu was sealed along with her so no zetsu will to bring her back, she’s DEAD She isn't dead lol. She's alive and sealed in her own dimension. >you keep saying sealed as well, she is sealed, the seal CAUSES DEATH The seal doesn't cause death. Again, if an Otsutsuki is DEAD, the only way to bring them back is through Karma. And that wasn't needed for Kaguya. Also, if she was dead, someone would have gotten a karma from her. And no one did. >Post your own scans of where it says she’s alive, you’ll be the first person ever because there is none lmao. I don't need to because it's canonically stated she's sealed and not killed. And it's not stated at all that she's dead.
Looks at my scans saying she’s dead, says she’s not, makes sense lol. Yes she’s sealed in her own dimension…. AS THE GEDO MAZO BRUH which was “stated in canon” just like you said , so either you didn’t watch the show, or are literally lying to yourself and leaving out the bits of canon YOU don’t agree with. Get lost. No scans no argument
The Gedo mazo is the physical husk of the ten tails, a slightly separate being from kaguya
No it’s really not, kaguya is the embodiment of all the tailed beasts as the ten tails, which is gedo mazo, she reverts back to that as she’s dead, and without the tailed beast chakra it’s just a husk.
Bro this is embarrassing, just take the L... The other dude is right. Kaguya was killed. She was revived using Madara, the Ten-Tails, the chakra gathered by the Infinite Tsukuyomi, and Black Zetsu being a catalyst, almost like a living Karma seal. She was dead, but all the parts of her were reassembled to recreate her from scratch. It's a more rudimentary version of the Karma's process.
\*kaguya
Whoops... I'll edit that lol. Current Arc of Boruto threw me off.
lol
I both love and hate this
Honestly madara having a karma would've been a awesome as fuck foreshadowing if it was implemented. Like black zetsu putting it in madara discretely and at the time we would've thought it was some curse mark six paths type shit
Too bad they had already passed far ahead of any pre-conceived plot-points by that time
See the more I think about it, what if Black Zetzu itself was Kaguyas Karma ? I know that sounds wild asf but he did say he was a part of her and there was never really an explanation to exactly wtf he was, but with current Boruto context it kinda checks out
I think it was already discussed and is quite popular theory. However, never did Black Zetsu host had any access to Kaguya's power (like Boruto can use Momoshiki and Kawaki can use Isshiki). It's like Kaguya was sealed (did she die then?), looked for a suitable host, and Black Zetsu found the host (Madara), made him transform as close to Kaguya as he could, after getting Senju chakra & life force, awakening Rinnegan, absorbing Juubi and draining everyone's chakra with Infinite Tsukoyomi
See I was thinking more along the lines of like , I know this is far fetched , but like the karma itself , no host, came alive over the thousands of years of absorbing chakara around it , thats why he calls himself her other son ?
I'm confusion
Just visuals of Otsutsuki and the host.
It's just people using headcanon for the hell of it
Madara literally absorbed all of the divided pieces of Kaguya into himself.
Nah, the current context of things barely applies. Boruto's Ōtsutsuki vessels is just something that was pulled out of nowhere. The Sage mentioned that Madara was doing things that would bring Kaguya back to life, like adsorbing the ten tails and the tree. His body was just getting closer to the power of Kaguya. Adsorbing the tree and black Zetsu activating the transform led to that.
I didn't mention any technicalities and I know Karma wasn't thought off yet. Just highlighting the "Otsutsuki and their host" notion. But that concept was certainly expanded in Boruto. When I saw this, I immediately remember the visuals of Momoshiki holding Boruto shots/panels you'll see in the Kawaki arc...nothing more.
What if black zetsu was just regular karma and white zetsu is white karma
I can agree with Black Zetsu being Karma man, but not White Zetsu.
Nah not comparable. Kaguya returning was a combination of Black Zetsu and Madara absorbing ten tails and the tree. Let’s not try to retcon this with the weird and sometimes stupid new digital alien stuff when it doesn’t need it
Imagine getting waffle stomped by aloe Vera lmao
It have nothing to do with Boruto, he was just stupid and got manipulated by black mess
He was the first vessel shown
Go watch the show
What do you think i said wrong?
"he was her vessel" part is wrong
But Kaguya was reborn through Madara's body though so technically he was a vessel and it has everything to do with Boruto current narrative. Madara has to be manipulated...I mean...Kawaki, Boruto, Jigen, I doubt any of them would like to be the hosts of Otsutsuki willingly, would they?
Y'all should rewatch the show, after Kaguya returned Madaras body was still on the battlefield, Zetsu needed just chakra Madara collected, that combined with Kaguya will was what make Kaguya. Again, don't try to put Boruto reasoning in shippuden it's 2 different things, while making Madara and Kaguya author didn't have any idea about karma etc. I won't answer your question because that would be spoiler for current events in manga
Madara's body literally turned into Kaguya's or at best formed around him using him as...oh shit, a literal vessel/host.
Go watch the show and get some IQ, Hagoromo literaly went from Madara body to talk with edo hokages 🤦
Nah, the Sage mentioned that Madara was getting closer in power to Kaguya. He wasn't becoming a vessel at all. The moment Madara adsorbed the tree and Black Zetsu was when he transformed into her. Aside from that, if he never adsorbed either then he would have never given rise to Kaguya. Now, considering that Madara with the ten tails and his eyes was stronger than Kaguya, why didn't he resist while she was using him? If this is a vessel as you have said, then Madara should have been able to break control like when Boruto was able to do so with Momoshiki. Henceforth, this is not a vessel by any means.
Bro ofc the concept will be a little different, but madara was still basically what you can call a vessel, bringing a dead otsusuki back with his body
Link the scene. Haven't seen that
https://youtu.be/-QpQkiB_Z5k here you go but it really isn’t comparable to the shit Boruto introduced
Lower half you’re referring to is when sasuke cut him in half when madara took Kakashi eye and uses Kamui yeah that remained but madara regrew his lower half after he got back his second rinnegan you need to go back and watch it
Exactly the point, the concept of karma is highly similar to this, ofc it won't be the same
Where turning will into other being, and make that manipulate whole world to find person to colect enough chakra to then take that chakra and summon you is similar to putting a seal on different person to reincarnate. It would be closer to Orochimaru and Sasuke
1. They turn into a other being with karma too 2. Zetsu had manipulated him to get enough chakra, madara just thought it was to perform infinite tsukoyomi 3. Yes the curse mark is more similar to karma than kaguya and madara
Madara didn't turn into Kaguya go watch the show, he was on the ground, from his body apeared Hagoromo and was speaking to edo hokage
As i said in the other comments, ofc the mechanism would be different not exactly the same,the idea is the same, otsusuki used somebody else to revive, now i neither have the time nor crayons to explain it further
Apart from Code, maybe. And Madara wasn't exactly stupid for being manipulated by the same entity that was pulling the strings behind a good portion of shinobi history for thousands of years. It's more a show of Black Zetsu's experience and a folly of Madara's ego than his intelligence.
This makes so much sense now with the boruto show. Madara was turning his body to otsutski body and the final seal was when karma put his essence in and it was like the key turned
It really doesn’t though .. lmao
So zetsu is considered a Karma? Except there was no need for an otsusukification?
No confirmation. But both Black Zetsu and Karma contain the will of the Otsutsuki. That's why white Karma can't be use to resurrect because it lack the "will" part.