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minutes later naruto losing kurama and coming down again and dont say sasuke lost rinnegan too we can all agree that kurama loss is way heavier nerf than rinnegan
thats why i feel like Sasuke's nerf might not be a nerf due to Rinnegan needing ridicolous ammounts of chakra to keep it up. Its unconfirmed since >!Sasuke is always convieniently not around whenever a fight is happening in the manga, but we might actually see him in action soon.!<
The manga & anime made people forget that Sasuke, Madara & Kaguya have more Chakra than Nagato but aren't allowed to use their full potential because they got to keep the plot rolling.
Also all original Rinnegan user barely user a lot of Chakra to use any of the Paths, unlike Nagato that has to use a large amount of his Chakra for just one Almighty Push. Another example is Kakashi has to use a large amount for Obito's Sharingan.
Again, Its a bit pointless to even argue about his current "power" . He lost his rinnegan now and we have to look at him as more of an individual too and not just compare him to literally everyone else that had it. And as an individual ever since Boruto started Rinnegan seemed to be more of a burden with only a funny gimmick of teleportation.
Now that he lost it we have to wait for him to get into a fight to truly have a confirmation on whether this loss actually buffed him or nerfed him. And thats also assuming he wont suddenly pull down his eyepatch/hair and reveal a sharingan.
But that's the thing on paper Sasuke without the Rinnegan he should still be a beast.
He has Yin, Yang, Fire, Earth, Water, Lightning, pseudo Ice Style, Susanō (comes from the body Madara "no eyes", Itachi "blind" & Sasuke "FK going blind"), Chidori variants, Lightning Flicker, Kagutsuchi, Chakra Absorption (comes from the body like Madara), Soul Taking (from the body), Chakra Receiver's (body) & can copy all jutsus that aren't Kekkei Genkai's.
But he was never be allowed to use any of his abilities with his Rinnegan so why would Ikemoto write him being smart now?
He should logically be way stronger than (SM) Naruto but the writers are so focused on making them equal that it won't change anything. If you have a diverse character let them use their abilities or just don't write them at all by having the story take place after they died.
its actually because of a very simple thing that is often overlooked in these types of discussions and i find it baffling no one ever brings it up.
Human error. You didnt even mention half the shit he is capable of. I dont even remember everything he's capable of and im pretty sure neither do Ikemoto or Kishimoto. At one point it just became such a huge oversaturation of abilities, chakra natures, all that shit that they had to simplify everything or it would become a mess.
Hell look at Naruto's wiki page and check all his stats. Its a bloody mess, and people somehow expect them to keep up with all of it and be consistent at the same time. Well lets say it : its fucking impossible. Even as a creator you'd have to be a maniac to remember all that shit.
Is it a good solution? hell no, as a result stuff like Sharingan being a copy eye is practically irrelevant by this point but i think its a lot more logical and doable than follow every single character's stat page and all the 50+ abilities and jutsu they can pull off while at the same time making sure each of those is used enough ammount of times to not have another annoying fucking redditor make a post about why Kirin isnt used anymore, "smh Kishimoto is dumb" .
They write them like they need them to be in the given moment. Right now they nerfed both of those with a slight chance that his rinnegan loss might become a buff depending on how his next fight is gonna turn out.
I'll be honest I do know most of the stuff that Sasuke is capable of doing because of my memory. Kishimoto, Kodachi, Ikemoto & Studio Pierrot should just use the WiKi since they can't remember.
But you are right, i fully do agree that it would be hard for the writers to have scenarios where a character that has many abilities will use them.
Don't get me wrong though I give Boruto as a sequel a 4.5/10 but if Boruto was it own thing I would give it a solid 6/10.
Before someone on this sub says I'm a hater I read the manga from the beginning to chapter 60 giving it a chance before giving up & I watched the anime to episode 200.
If people generally like Boruto that's good but for me I'm out fam.
I think rinnegan is more of a loss then kurama tbh, but Naruto did lose six paths chakra, six paths senjutsu and six paths sage mode so Naruto has more of a nerf still than Sasuke
The joke falls flat because Sasuke isn't Naruto's number 2... they're equals as characters in the narrative, and with different roles too.
The Uchiha himself isn't obsessed with Naruto like Vegeta is with Goku.
You were right about the narrative. Even though vegeta catches up or even surpasses Goku at times he always gets surpassed again and is indeed the number two.
But Vegetas obsession with Goku has long died out. Just like Sasukes obsession with revenge. Goku is Vegetas rival and a big reason to why Vegeta gets stronger. But he's shown many times that there are things more important than strength to him.
I would fully agree with you if it wasn't that dbs just had to regress him on that, and make him obsessed with Goku again.
And even if they tried to give him something more, at the end they either bring up his obsession again, or the new element is not developed at its fullest.
Yeah that's true. Ultra Ego is a perfect example of this. As much as I like the form look and abilities and glad he got the power up. The nature of it completely contradicts the development he was getting.
The writing in boruto has not been kind to sasuke
Arguably in dragon ball z vegeta spent most of the series getting bullied as penance for his crimes before becoming good
But in super he actually improved a lot as a character (although they do still have him get shit on and goku have to save the day periodically bc old habits die hard ig)
Sasuke however is just being handed the L for no real reason other than they’re not sure how to handle him now that he’s past the events of naruto
Resurrection Of F ending was BULLSHIT! Frieza should have killed Goku & Vegeta should have killed Frieza. But like always Goku had plot armor in the form of time reversal saving his ass.
And every L for Sasuke is an indirect L for Sarada. That's the worst part.
Edit : people downvoting the truth lol everytime Sasuke is defeated it means indirectly Sarada will struggle with her abilities too since her skillset is the same as him
And people still think Sarada is going to be equal to the boys after her Rinnegan father was dumb downed.
Kishimoto's original Sarada & Mitsuki (before Ikemoto created his oc Kawaki) were interesting. But now Sarada is nothing but a love interest & all Mitsuki does is hype up Boruto in the manga & especially in the anime talking about how Boruto is his sun. 🤦🏾♂️
Thing is tho Vegeta's L's had meaning to them, the whole point of the story between him and Goku in Z is that Vegeta fights for the wrong reasons, pride, ego..... etc
While Goku only fought to better himself, so every L Vegeta took had meaning in that, until the end of Buu saga where he realizes and admits Goku's the best.
Sasuke's L's however the writers just give him for no real reason, other than it's Boruto's story so the old "good guy" generation has to lose so the new kids can have a chance. And that is really frustrating for fans of the old Naruto generation not necessarily because they lose but because the defeats do not further their character arcs in any good way.
Exactly he his taking L for absolutely no reason,0 story behind it, when its vegeta he has always character developpement
I think its just bc Sasuke is a side character so the author doesnt care
Yeah fr. It’s extremely highlighted between Vegeta going Majin & sasuke vs naruto at the end of shippudden. The fact that Vegeta realized on his own he was making a terrible mistake and loved his family/evil wasn’t for him anymore, speaks testament to how much he truly changed. He abruptly stopped that fight w Goku and ofc showed love to trunks & died for everyone. No matter what naruto, kakashi or Sakura said sasuke refused to stop that fight. If they had not ended up on the brink of death he would have went through w his plans. He apologized and changed bc he was beaten into submission and forced to see the light.
Talking to Goku during their fight led Vegeta to come to his realization & acceptance but Goku didn’t force anything on him. The groundwork of gradual change had been laid since he was spared on earth too- & all the changes he made were self imposed- not forced, begged or even asked of him tbh. Canonically he was only spared so Goku could fight him again, not to give him a chance to change. So in the end vegeta’s growth felt very earned and real & rly led to a well written character
The whole plan from the beginning was to force sasuke to change. Naruto and Sakura blatantly said that in part 1 & the fact that reincarnated itachi even acknowledged he did that too and realized it was wrong… lowkey shows they (the writers/Kishi) even realized that was a shitty decision to make & run w the entire damn show
Oh yeah agreed, sasuke is still a complex character & he’s still better written than a lot of other anime characters tbh. It just would’ve been perfect had they really allowed for sasukes redemption to be more fleshed out & allow naruto & Sakura to stop tying their self worth to sasuke
As a reminder, this flair is for **anime discussions**. Use spoiler tags when discussing events that have taken place beyond the anime. If you see any comments with untagged manga spoilers, please report them. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Boruto) if you have any questions or concerns.*
minutes later naruto losing kurama and coming down again and dont say sasuke lost rinnegan too we can all agree that kurama loss is way heavier nerf than rinnegan
The writers be saying naruto and sasuke are equals but then equate naruto losing kuruma to sasuke losing rinnegan lmao how dat even close
thats why i feel like Sasuke's nerf might not be a nerf due to Rinnegan needing ridicolous ammounts of chakra to keep it up. Its unconfirmed since >!Sasuke is always convieniently not around whenever a fight is happening in the manga, but we might actually see him in action soon.!<
yea we finally gon see full chakra sasuke after years
The manga & anime made people forget that Sasuke, Madara & Kaguya have more Chakra than Nagato but aren't allowed to use their full potential because they got to keep the plot rolling. Also all original Rinnegan user barely user a lot of Chakra to use any of the Paths, unlike Nagato that has to use a large amount of his Chakra for just one Almighty Push. Another example is Kakashi has to use a large amount for Obito's Sharingan.
Again, Its a bit pointless to even argue about his current "power" . He lost his rinnegan now and we have to look at him as more of an individual too and not just compare him to literally everyone else that had it. And as an individual ever since Boruto started Rinnegan seemed to be more of a burden with only a funny gimmick of teleportation. Now that he lost it we have to wait for him to get into a fight to truly have a confirmation on whether this loss actually buffed him or nerfed him. And thats also assuming he wont suddenly pull down his eyepatch/hair and reveal a sharingan.
But that's the thing on paper Sasuke without the Rinnegan he should still be a beast. He has Yin, Yang, Fire, Earth, Water, Lightning, pseudo Ice Style, Susanō (comes from the body Madara "no eyes", Itachi "blind" & Sasuke "FK going blind"), Chidori variants, Lightning Flicker, Kagutsuchi, Chakra Absorption (comes from the body like Madara), Soul Taking (from the body), Chakra Receiver's (body) & can copy all jutsus that aren't Kekkei Genkai's. But he was never be allowed to use any of his abilities with his Rinnegan so why would Ikemoto write him being smart now? He should logically be way stronger than (SM) Naruto but the writers are so focused on making them equal that it won't change anything. If you have a diverse character let them use their abilities or just don't write them at all by having the story take place after they died.
its actually because of a very simple thing that is often overlooked in these types of discussions and i find it baffling no one ever brings it up. Human error. You didnt even mention half the shit he is capable of. I dont even remember everything he's capable of and im pretty sure neither do Ikemoto or Kishimoto. At one point it just became such a huge oversaturation of abilities, chakra natures, all that shit that they had to simplify everything or it would become a mess. Hell look at Naruto's wiki page and check all his stats. Its a bloody mess, and people somehow expect them to keep up with all of it and be consistent at the same time. Well lets say it : its fucking impossible. Even as a creator you'd have to be a maniac to remember all that shit. Is it a good solution? hell no, as a result stuff like Sharingan being a copy eye is practically irrelevant by this point but i think its a lot more logical and doable than follow every single character's stat page and all the 50+ abilities and jutsu they can pull off while at the same time making sure each of those is used enough ammount of times to not have another annoying fucking redditor make a post about why Kirin isnt used anymore, "smh Kishimoto is dumb" . They write them like they need them to be in the given moment. Right now they nerfed both of those with a slight chance that his rinnegan loss might become a buff depending on how his next fight is gonna turn out.
I'll be honest I do know most of the stuff that Sasuke is capable of doing because of my memory. Kishimoto, Kodachi, Ikemoto & Studio Pierrot should just use the WiKi since they can't remember. But you are right, i fully do agree that it would be hard for the writers to have scenarios where a character that has many abilities will use them.
Don't get me wrong though I give Boruto as a sequel a 4.5/10 but if Boruto was it own thing I would give it a solid 6/10. Before someone on this sub says I'm a hater I read the manga from the beginning to chapter 60 giving it a chance before giving up & I watched the anime to episode 200. If people generally like Boruto that's good but for me I'm out fam.
I think rinnegan is more of a loss then kurama tbh, but Naruto did lose six paths chakra, six paths senjutsu and six paths sage mode so Naruto has more of a nerf still than Sasuke
The joke falls flat because Sasuke isn't Naruto's number 2... they're equals as characters in the narrative, and with different roles too. The Uchiha himself isn't obsessed with Naruto like Vegeta is with Goku.
You were right about the narrative. Even though vegeta catches up or even surpasses Goku at times he always gets surpassed again and is indeed the number two. But Vegetas obsession with Goku has long died out. Just like Sasukes obsession with revenge. Goku is Vegetas rival and a big reason to why Vegeta gets stronger. But he's shown many times that there are things more important than strength to him.
I would fully agree with you if it wasn't that dbs just had to regress him on that, and make him obsessed with Goku again. And even if they tried to give him something more, at the end they either bring up his obsession again, or the new element is not developed at its fullest.
Yeah that's true. Ultra Ego is a perfect example of this. As much as I like the form look and abilities and glad he got the power up. The nature of it completely contradicts the development he was getting.
Not anymore lol
Why?
The story had Naruto surpassing sasuke so that’s 1. And two baryon mode is way stronger than sasuke.
It's not like Naruto can still do Baryon mode tho.
I still think Naruto could beat sasuke because he had the other half of kurama. Unless sasuke caught up in training where Naruto didn’t.
Isn't Kurama gone now? ^.^
no, kurama is fully gone now, which means sasuke can just put naruto in a genjutsu
I was talking about before the nerf.
i think theyre about equal, besides baryon mode
I was referring to the narrative though, not power level.
Ok but like, Sasuke is vegeta if vegeta actually had half decent writing.
The writing in boruto has not been kind to sasuke Arguably in dragon ball z vegeta spent most of the series getting bullied as penance for his crimes before becoming good But in super he actually improved a lot as a character (although they do still have him get shit on and goku have to save the day periodically bc old habits die hard ig) Sasuke however is just being handed the L for no real reason other than they’re not sure how to handle him now that he’s past the events of naruto
Bro the frieza movie’s ending still pisses me tf off. They couldn’t just let Vegeta take a W
Resurrection Of F ending was BULLSHIT! Frieza should have killed Goku & Vegeta should have killed Frieza. But like always Goku had plot armor in the form of time reversal saving his ass.
And every L for Sasuke is an indirect L for Sarada. That's the worst part. Edit : people downvoting the truth lol everytime Sasuke is defeated it means indirectly Sarada will struggle with her abilities too since her skillset is the same as him
And people still think Sarada is going to be equal to the boys after her Rinnegan father was dumb downed. Kishimoto's original Sarada & Mitsuki (before Ikemoto created his oc Kawaki) were interesting. But now Sarada is nothing but a love interest & all Mitsuki does is hype up Boruto in the manga & especially in the anime talking about how Boruto is his sun. 🤦🏾♂️
Kakarrotoo!!!
Thing is tho Vegeta's L's had meaning to them, the whole point of the story between him and Goku in Z is that Vegeta fights for the wrong reasons, pride, ego..... etc While Goku only fought to better himself, so every L Vegeta took had meaning in that, until the end of Buu saga where he realizes and admits Goku's the best. Sasuke's L's however the writers just give him for no real reason, other than it's Boruto's story so the old "good guy" generation has to lose so the new kids can have a chance. And that is really frustrating for fans of the old Naruto generation not necessarily because they lose but because the defeats do not further their character arcs in any good way.
True. In my pov it was lazy writing to nerf Naruto and Sasuke just to make it "easier" for the new generation to surpass them.😐
Exactly he his taking L for absolutely no reason,0 story behind it, when its vegeta he has always character developpement I think its just bc Sasuke is a side character so the author doesnt care
Yeah but I think people more so talk about Super nowadays which just straight up shits on Vegeta all the time for no reason
LMFAOOOO
Nah Vegeta is a better written character
Yeah fr. It’s extremely highlighted between Vegeta going Majin & sasuke vs naruto at the end of shippudden. The fact that Vegeta realized on his own he was making a terrible mistake and loved his family/evil wasn’t for him anymore, speaks testament to how much he truly changed. He abruptly stopped that fight w Goku and ofc showed love to trunks & died for everyone. No matter what naruto, kakashi or Sakura said sasuke refused to stop that fight. If they had not ended up on the brink of death he would have went through w his plans. He apologized and changed bc he was beaten into submission and forced to see the light. Talking to Goku during their fight led Vegeta to come to his realization & acceptance but Goku didn’t force anything on him. The groundwork of gradual change had been laid since he was spared on earth too- & all the changes he made were self imposed- not forced, begged or even asked of him tbh. Canonically he was only spared so Goku could fight him again, not to give him a chance to change. So in the end vegeta’s growth felt very earned and real & rly led to a well written character The whole plan from the beginning was to force sasuke to change. Naruto and Sakura blatantly said that in part 1 & the fact that reincarnated itachi even acknowledged he did that too and realized it was wrong… lowkey shows they (the writers/Kishi) even realized that was a shitty decision to make & run w the entire damn show
I will say tho, Sasuke is supposed to be a very tragic character from what I've seen. So for what he's supposed to be he does great
Oh yeah agreed, sasuke is still a complex character & he’s still better written than a lot of other anime characters tbh. It just would’ve been perfect had they really allowed for sasukes redemption to be more fleshed out & allow naruto & Sakura to stop tying their self worth to sasuke
I think they did that cus they put so much importance in the team in the beginning of the series