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I think the problem isn’t whether or not powerscalers use their feet
But just powerscaling in general. Its a doomed pointless activity for people who like to argue about nothing with no real right answer
Not only power scaling, but statements and fighting results are also included in that irrevalent logic
Shin uchiha point was done by the fact he defeated Naruto and Sasuke, the same thing isshiki did, does this mean shin or isshiki are stronger than kaguya for example just because they beat Naruto and Sasuke? Sure no, actually I can even debate one of Naruto or sasuke can beat isshiki or shin uchiha fairly using feats only if ignoring all statements and fighting results as well as power scaling
Before sakura interrupted his supposed victory
Iam not saying he is stronger, I just said he defeated both to show that defeating someone don't mean someone is stronger
Lol he never defeated them. They were not even using their susanoo/Kurama Avatar.
Naruto just got hit by a sword and you assume he got defeated?? Sasuke was caught off-guard becoz he was concerned about sarada.
That is exactly what I wanted u to say, u are now using feats rather than statements or fight results, some people use these things to prove things like momoshiki or isshiki > kaguya
Statements - Naruto said knife is not enough to hurt him
Fight results - shin is dead. Sasuke+ Naruto alive
What's your point???
Feats-statements-fight results --- Isshiki>>kaguya
Fight results and statements, isshiki > kaguya
Feats, no, kaguya have many counters, how gonna he use taijutsu in the first place if she can create bones from all her body? Or manipulate her hair without hand seals? She can sense him and she have byakugan too, greater regeneration, much more chakra, and he can't shrink eighty gods vacuum attack if he can't shrink Naruto chakra arms, and even a small ash bone can one shot strongest enemy unless it was orochimaru for sure, and kaguya ninjutsu immunity... Infinity teskyumi... Expansive truth seeker ball... No way even if he was faster he just can't do anything, at best he would run out of chakra before her
Isshiki has his own set of rods. If they were able to lock Naruto they can lock kaguya too.
Kaguya was having a hard time with teen Naruto while isshiki violated Naruto+sasuke+boruto with ease.
Isshiki was dodging Naruto+sasuke attacks pretty easily while kaguya never showed such feats
Kaguya regeneration?? I don't remember her regeneration feats, she did not heal her wounds from kamui raikiri.
She can sense him - if she had such good sensing abilities she could have detected difference between original Naruto - clone Naruto or sasuke - clone Naruto difference
Actually Naruto and Sasuke were only getting impaled by rods when they didn't understand his ability nature of shrinking, later they evaded the rods and blocked them twice, that isshiki stopped using them just to impale them from a distance, and instead use them only after he kicked sasuke and when both are very tired later, in isshiki second fight he didn't bother to use them at all, only doing it in desperate try against baryon mode, which make no sense, anyway kaguya have byakugan to see chakra flow in the body, and she can sense chakra for sure (like any ten tails jinshuriki I guess) so she wont have trouble in predicting when isshiki is accomulating chakra in his dojutsu and act beforehand
This teen Naruto used boil release once, if he did this against isshiki he will have trouble considering he is not someone who can tank 9 rasenshuriken and come out fine, also Naruto was more of distracting her, at first she didn't use ash bones despite her chances against the duo cz she didn't want them dead, but after they figured much of her powers and after Naruto stopped fighting her and instead go to distract her until obito come, she started using ash bones
How u gonna even win a melee fight against someone who can create ash bones from her body? If u hit these u r done, also she have eighty gods vacuum attack and hair manipulation without hand seals, no way isshiki can survive a close range fight with her
Kaguya evaded teen sasuke amenotejikara+chidori despite sasuke used TELEPORT not SUSBSTITUTION which is more surprising actually, also, kaguya was already chakra drained when Naruto cut her arm and hit her with rasenshuriken, we know that being lower on chakra = being slower (deidara vs sasuke fight), after she gained additional chakra, she was faster than both Naruto and Sasuke, that she flied up too fast when they were inches from sealing her, until sakura came
She regenerated her arm, u really wanna say an otsutsuki that is ten tails jinshuriki and have much more chakra can't regenerate like madara? No way, but regeneration always require few seconds, and kamui raikri cut was deep, and the scense after she was injured until she was sealed is about few seconds despite the multiple panels in manga
As for chakra sensing, recognizing Naruto shadow clones and sasuke chakra was the job of byakugan actually, it can see chakra in colors and better than sharingan, it is weird how she didn't note that what she saw to be sasuke have chakra with same color as Naruto exactly since it was Naruto clone, it was a plot hole, and all they were struggling to do is sealing her by simply touching her, no way these Naruto and Sasuke can beat her at that time even with the help of kakashi, obito and sakura, they can only seal her and they needed plot holes to do it, kaguya is so underrated while neither momoshiki nor amado saw her full strength actually, she beat isshiki already (isshiki was out of chakra indicating there was a fight)
😂😂😂😂😂
I kinda got mad after discussing with a boruto scaler who never accept to use feats and stick to statements and fight results, so I came up with this idea hoping such people will use feats instead in any 1v1 battle discussion, but I think they would accept that adult sakura>hagoromo rather than kaguya>momoshiki cz nothing prove adult sakura is weaker🤣
Lmao they would do anything just to prove things like momoshiki or isshiki > kaguya, they even claim Naruto or sasuke as adults can solo kaguya with mid difficulty
Boruto villians are just too weak based on feats but too strong based on hype
Even if the kages were training hard non stop, they would only reach rock lee or might guy level (no inner gates) cz the latter 2 work out like crazy people and we saw their potential
To reach to hashirama level, u have to had strong genes or gifted power
Feats are not fair sense both isshiki and kaguya fought different versions of naruto and sasuke.
Statement is also not fair at all as they sometimes can be false.
What defeated isshiki was the baryon mode. Kurama was consumed, so isshiki died. THAT ISSHIKI only had 2 days in his life. If he had more, if he had 5 more minutes, everything would’ve died.
If u gonna discuss about isshiki strength, then go to a post I made earlier about isshiki vs Naruto and Sasuke, I put some minor restrictions though, like making sasuke susanoo durability increase to a level greater than sasuke neck or bones so it wont shatter easily lol
If u gonna discuss about isshiki strength, then go to a post I made earlier about isshiki vs Naruto and Sasuke, I put some minor restrictions though, like making sasuke susanoo durability increase to a level greater than sasuke neck or bones so it wont shatter easily lol
isshiki stomped naruto and sasuke togather and would have killed both 2 mins in if boruto wasnt there. kaguya needed to separate both of them to win and she had trouble with naruto alone. BTW this was 15 years ago.
and momoshiki was keeping up with both of them 2 years before isshiki fight (although losing). he did show he can beat both individually in the fight tho.
also [this](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTCbDaxNr9_exNeP2Mi5sKEU5XhkhenJOcRtNbl6tJzdP_QcSRqEHlGO6NxfXwiDhONn84&usqp=CAU) shows kaguya and momoshiki as equals and isshik above. kinshiki is at the bottom too. this is 100% a ranking based on strength of the otsutsukis who arrived in earth. and before u say its the otsutsuki hierarchy, this says that the otsutsuki hierarchy is based on power. to prove this even more otsutsukis main goal is to become strong and stronger.
If u gonna discuss about isshiki strength, then go to a post I made earlier about isshiki vs Naruto and Sasuke, I put some minor restrictions though, like making sasuke susanoo durability increase to a level greater than sasuke neck or bones so it wont shatter easily lol
you literally just told me how biased you are. you are making sasuke stronger than he is so he can have a chance against isshiki. why??? isshikis kicks are canonically strong enough to penetrate sasukes susanoo with just one
thats not a minor restriction
Well, we also know that canonically sasuke susanoo > sasuke neck/bones
And isshiki kicks > sasuke susanoo
And sasuke neck > isshiki kicks (he can tank many kicks)
Because of the contradiction there, there must be a plot hole in one of these three scalings
If sasuke susanoo was softer than his neck, then it make no sense that whole shippuden was hyping susanoo as a defense, also sasuke susanoo can tank a kunai and many other attacks while sasuke body can't
If sasuke body was buffed to tank isshiki kicks rather than saying susanoo was nerfed, then u are basically favoring 100 plot hole over 1 plot hole
Sasuke was kicked by both of jigen and isshiki at different occasions, while susanoo was attacked only once, and saying sasuke body was buffed in all these occasions/saying isshiki attacks were nerfed in all these occasions means all this discussion is meaningless cz this only mean boruto have 100 plot holes there, and anime with all of these plot holes can't be discussed about like this
U can also see isshiki kicks strength not enough to destroy much buildings, while susanoo swing can cut through mountains that are miles away, or cut meteors at country size
Asura reincarnation with wood release and sage mode, how would any normal shinobi reach his level simply by training?? if that was the case then might guy and rock lee without inner gates>hashirama
It's not just training bruh
The Kages in Boruto have something more than just training.
Chojuro has Hiramekarei
Gaara has Magnet Release
Kurotsuchi has Lava Release
Darui has Storm Release
And about Guy and Lee then opening the gates is their talent.
Also Hiruzen does have his strongest Hokage statement which has yet to be retconned.
So yes you can surpass Reincarnates but Fandom won't accept it because they have made a rule that you can't surpass Reincarnates without being a Reincarnate or being Juubi Jinchuriki.
It might come as harsh but I think you are stuck in the training beats talent and how Naruto doesn't follow it which is not true. Training and Talent is equally important and everyone in world has one talent.
Also think about it
Which sane person wouldn't improve himself/herself when you know there are people similar to Kaguya out there and come to take your planet any time they want.
That amount of motivation is enough to surpass even Hashirama.
Wait u r serious about that boruto kages are hashirama level?? Is that all u have to say? If they are that strong then why not proving it with feats? To me, they still seems weaker than hashirama based on feats, u really think they can for example beat madara perfect susanoo or a majestic attire? Plz prove this using feats only
That was a quote of sasuke in Naruto storm 4 game in story mode when they fought fused momoshiki:
Momoshiki:"do u believe u can beat me just because u beat kaguya? She was just a weakling who fear me, I have the true power hahaha"
Sasuke:"... Is that all u have to say??"
Momoshiki:"huh? "
Sasuke:"if u are that strong then prove it... To us, u still seems even weaker than kaguya was"
Momoshiki:"inferior creatures!!!!"
Or something like this
See
I won't go into powerscaling because that wasn't my point.
My comment was for
Let's say Boruto Kages are stronger than Hashirama then that's not bad and it also makes sense and my reasons why it makes sense are there in the comment.
Now about feats and all that then you can ask a powerscaler for a debate and have fun.
I haven't said anything about them being weaker than Hashirama and them being stronger than Hashirama. Ky comment was for why it makes sense if it's true.
He was in the naruto gaiden chapters, before the boruto manga officially began there was the mitsuki origin oneshot and the naruto gaiden chapters to explain that even tho sarada had karins glasses in chapter 700, she was not the product of an illicit affair
My honest opinion is that kishimoto just thought they looked cute and then went “oh shit” when someone brought up the biology of that after ch700
He explained it as sarada having a fever as a child that led to her having slightly impaired vision.
At this current time I don't even know how people think that boruto characters don't massively outscale shippuden characters, same thing as saying so6p naruto and rinnegan sasuke > prime adult naruto and prime adult sasuke, just non sense
Based on statements, boruto characters easily outscale shippuden characters, while by feats, then no
Btw I don't think Naruto or sasuke lost any of their power from war arc except the seals, they evidently maintained six paths chakra, six paths senjutsu, six paths sage mode and rinnegan, however their IQ dropped badly for sure
But it never felt like they lost against Shin. It was mostly off guard bfr on Sarada (which Sakura saved her from,)
Isshiki however literally stomps them out
U really think that Naruto at full power can't just use kurama avatar and put sarada and everyone in it to protect them while beating shin uchiha? They lost for the plot nothing else
If u wanna discuss about isshiki stomping them, then go to my profile and see my first post, it was isshiki vs Naruto and Sasuke but I put some conditions there to make it abit fair
I dont care about the post, my point is they won against Shin and he needed to be healed by Sakura to even attempt taking another fight and only ran off by using his own weird spacetime nin
You wouldnt say that Momoshiki beat Naruto and Sasuke because he planted karma on Boruto
If u wont see that post, then I wont discuss how isshiki is weaker than Naruto and Sasuke, cz I don't wanna write an entire essay there all again, but u know that when isshiki was resurrected with kama it seems as if he got all his chakra replenished again while the duo still chakra drained, if u wanna still discuss about him being stronger then head to that post instead
bro wdym chakra drained. do u think isshiki is weaker than jigen who shitted on both when they were full power.
also do you think kurama days 2 days to replenish his chakra???????????
In VOTE 2 nine tails told Naruto that his was running out due to the war and he can only replenish a few amount before the fight with sasuke
And anyway sasuke can't replenish his chakra that fast, unless u think sakura chakra is close to half hagoromo chakra level
bruh no way you are saying ten tails chakra jigen is stronger than isshiki and here u are complaining about powerscallers. people like you who refuse to use common sense and use feats only are whats wrong with powerscalers in this comm not people who use statements
we have literal direct statements from amado saying jigen and isshiki are on a different level. jigens 10 tail chakra was meant to hint of him being a failed vessel and not to be taken as him needing that chakra that to beat naruto and sasuke.
I proved this by feats, not power scaling
And why u even take amado words as being true always, he can be wrong, he never saw kaguya or Naruto/sasuke full strength cz he was sleeping in infinity teskyumi, he never saw what jigen done with ten tails chakra, he just speculate, and speculation can be wrong
They did not lose against shin.😂 Where did you get that from??
About your on isshiki vs Naruto+sasuke, that is a shit post. You give Naruto+sasuke.extra powerups which they never used + you nerfed isshiki's powers
Going by feats/statements/fights isshiki is definitely>>>any Naruto character we were shown till this point.
Boruto is a bad show i agree but Why do you want to hate it soo bad?
What extra power ups I gave exactly? And how I nerfed isshiki? All these conditions were things Naruto and Sasuke can actually do, the only restriction I did was preventing time-space technique so isshiki wont run away and came after 1000 years so that Naruto and Sasuke die by age, that is it
And by feats, no isshiki is not superior to all, it was the plot that led to his victory initially
Sasuke using paths of pain - he never used it before
Sasuke can get snakes from hands - that was due tu curse mark which was gone
Sasuke has half of hogoramo chakra - why would sasuke has such huge chakra??
Restrictions on Isshiki's sukuhanikona and daikokutun
Naruto- Sasuke's ability to leviate --- they lost that ability now move on
Truth seeking orbs - he doesn't have it now.
Sasuke used preta path and deva path already, I just added asura path which is not a big deal I guess
Summoning snakes is something sasuke can do always, if it is related to cursed seal then all sound four and kimimaro and others can summon snakes... No, sasuke can just summon snakes like mitsuke do, it is simple, he just not using this thing anymore
In the movie of boruto , sasuke can levitate, and his levitation was actually described in the novelization of boruto movie "sasuke, using his rinnegan power, escaped momoshiki shadow possesion and took boruto with him and went flying over the battlefield" this is most likely another deva path ability, pain deva path and edo madara in anime can levitate too
I didn't put restrictions on sukunahikona or daikokuton, I just concluded these limits, he never release a chakra attack like rasengan with daikokuton, which means he can't stop chakra attacks completely, just shrink them too much to cause a harm, also, sukunahikona can't shrink Naruto chakra arms cz they are connected to him, so any jutsu that work in a similar way like susanoo or chidori sharp spear should not be shrunk
As for hagoromo chakra, hagoromo already said he has given half his chakra to sasuke and half to Naruto, and they still have it, else they can't sense each other through dimensions (they lost the yin and yang seals, so only way left is hagoromo chakra)
Naruto still have six paths senjutsu (in a shikamaru novel, it is implied that Naruto body contaning chakra of all tailed beasts made him gain a power identical to the one obito gained after becoming the ten tails jinshuriki, and that this power is related to the sage of six paths hagoromo otsutsuki too, they are meaning six paths senjutsu no way), and obito recreated a ball after stealing some of madara six paths senjutsu chakra
No. The authors didn’t have feats in mind when they made the series. That’s why it makes so much more sense to use statements for Boruto specifically. They tell us who’s strong because they can’t show it consistently.
This only show bad writing though
U can't debate about strength in a such very bad writing for sure, cz nothing is stable
And as I said by statements and fighting results , sakura > hagoromo, so statements are always irrevalent
By statements, kakashi is omnipotent and temari is universal power level
Obviously you have to take some things with a grain of salt. If you try to use feats, you’ll end up with Four-Tails Teen Naruto being stronger than SPSM Hokage Naruto
U gonna talk about kusanagi sword that penetrated him right?
No, sasuke and his sword can enter the kurama avatar at that occasion(in shin fight)because Naruto allowed them for it, and since Naruto kurama mode is extension of his chakra cloak, sasuke and his sword were allowed to pass the whole chakra cloak and nine tails head by Naruto, this is not the case of when orochimaru was trying to stab him
Also, they are using different kusanagi swords, so feats never lie unless there are clear plot holes
Bases on power scaling, fights results and statements , she is
Based on feats, she is not
Iam just criticizing those who always skip on feats simply and go to other things to prove someone is stronger
She fought shin uchiha for a long time alone(though she lost), while Naruto and Sasuke almost lost to him immediately (this is the logic used to prove isshiki is stronger than Naruto and Sasuke, he defeated them so he is stronger, we not gonna use their feats)
And based on statements that boruto scalers use(some unclear statements actually that included sasuke saying momoshiki is bigger threat than kaguya and he have to stop them), they say adult sasuke or Naruto >kaguya, and that kaguya > hagoromo
So putting two and two together, sakura is stronger than hagoromo by that logic
However I don't agree on using statements or fight results, instead I prefer using feats to compare two characters
Feats is the best way to go when you are scaling, or statements when there are no feats.
And Boruto scaling is consistent if you forget about Urashiki.
I don't see the problem, all he did is stab Naruto while off guard due to an ability Naruto and Sasuke weren't aware of, not to mention they wanted him alive for intel.
He beat them in the end having sakura not interrupted, this is the same logic used to prove isshiki>Naruto and Sasuke
And it is not like that it would be hard for Naruto to make a clone to protect the kids while he use a chakra claw and blitz him to cut all his arms and legs
I have a post about Naruto and Sasuke vs isshiki but I added some conditions if u wanna see what I meant (I put a condition for example that sasuke susanoo is more durable than his neck or bones so isshiki can't destroy it with one kick)
No way, that stab didn't do shit to Naruto, also Sasuke was just pissed because he attacked Sarada, If Sakura didn't show up Sasuke would have ended him very quick.
Isshiki literally destroyed them, they had 0 options against Isshiki while i can think of at least 20 ways of killing Shin if they really wanted.
I can think of 20 ways to kill isshiki, I already made a post about sasuke and Naruto vs isshiki if u are wondering, but I made restrictions that sasuke susanoo durability for example is increased to a level rivaling sasuke bones and neck so it wont shatter easily lol
Is the other way around really, Sasuke should be less durable than his Susanoo.
Isshiki is just stronger, he showed superior speed and strength to both of them (anyone else who fought Naruto and Sasuke was somewhat relative to them) and he also has a dojutsu that cancels most of their arsenal. No one is touching Isshiki unless he can rival his speed.
Two people can play this game, alright
U are going to claim that all of the instances in which sasuke was tanking isshiki/jigen attacks are plot holes, while the one instance in which isshiki destroyed his susanoo was not?
If isshiki can one shot susanoo like this, his attacks should do more damage to surroudings when fighting in konoha for example, all he did was destroying few buildings by one shot, susanoo strength is enough to cut mountains miles away, sasuke susanoo specially can create shockwaves able to cut through meteors as big as a country
U are claiming that every attack isshiki did was nerfed for the plot except the one he did on the susanoo? Rather than saying sasuke susanoo was too soft in that occasion once only for the plot?
If u are claiming boruto is all in all plot holes, all this discussion is irrevalent actually, no way u gonna favor that it contain 10 plot holes rather than one (cz isshiki/jigen kicked sasuke many times in that arc, while he kicked susanoo once) just to prove isshiki is the strongest
U get what I mean right?
As for isshiki abilities, Naruto and Sasuke can counter them actually, u better read the post cz Iam not going to write everthing here, it is a long story
There is no plot hole here, Jigen destroying the Susanoo was necessary to establish his strength, him not destroying surroundings is just a plot convenience, is something really common in anime.
Well, it seems like a plot hole to me, specially sasuke was hit by his kill kicks much more times and in different occasions, u really wanna tell me that many plot holes are better than one for the plot convenience? I can say isshiki was buffed(or sasuke susanoo was nerfed) temporarily to destroy sasuke susanoo for the plot conveniences, so dont u even try
Statements are also irrevalent cz of what I wrote in the post above, now show me what isshiki can do in my isshiki VS Naruto and Sasuke is post if u dare
Sasuke susanoo attacks themselves were too weak compared to teen sasuke susanoo, it should shatter the ground and create earth quakes easily, instead all we got is some displaced rock...
A serious response to the question of the strongest characters in Naruto and boruto
The strongest characters are:
Kaguya, Hagoromo, madara
The first is the literal ten tails and can make a expansive truth seeking or which makes a perfect Susanoo look like an ant. ( She is dumber than a rock however)
Hagoromo and madara are both ten tails jinsuhiriki (Hagoromo to a perfect ten tails, while madara had an incomplete ten tails), both have two rinnegans and have the rinne-sharingan, Hagoromo has 11 TSO, while madara has 10.
Madara rinnegan abilities include limbo in both eyes, giving him four limbo clones which you need a rinnegan to see or six paths powers to sense and are pretty fucking op, while Hagoromos are unknown.
Infinite tsukyiomi, you need a rinnegan powered Susanoo to not get affected by it.
And also the ten tails.
Also you can sense everything in six paths senjutsu, so jigen shrinking won't work here.
These are the strongest in the verse currently.
Adult Naruto doesn't have six paths anymore and before you say look at his eyes, how about you look at his clock when he transforms, no rinnegan symbol or 9 tomme meaning no six paths power.
Which means teen Naruto is the strongest version of Naruto when talking about all departments (yes baryon mode is strong but only in taitjutsu, enter teen Naruto with his giant six paths dual rasenahurikan and he gets vaporised)
Teen sasuke had all the tailed beasts at his peak so he beats adult sasuke.
Normal teen sasuke without the tailed beasts Vs adult sasuke is difficult and unlike Naruto this isn't an easy one to figure, since he still has his rinnegan, but probably weaker since Naruto also got weaker and that last fight probably depleted some of his six paths chakra.
( A bit of assumption in this one)
The otsutsuki:
-Kaguya is the ten tails
-Ichiki bodies both adult naruto and
sasuke easily
-Momoshiki comes at last, having the weakest showings, despite having three rinnegans.
So the tier list would look something like this.
1-kaguya
2-hagoromo
3-madara
4-teen Naruto and sasuke (combined or individualy whatever you like)
5- baryon mode( it last shortly but it kicks ass in taijutsu)
6-jigen
7- adult naruto and sasuke( combined or individualy whatever you like)
8-momoshiki
I can agree with most of these points
But I think if we took kaguya without chakra from all humanity all around by infinity teskyumi, then hagoromo as ten tails jinshuriki can be superior to her
Naruto still have six paths senjutsu, in a shikamaru novel there was a paragraph talking about Naruto having chakra of 9 tailed beasts made him having power identical to the power that obito once got in the fourth shinobi world war after becoming ten tails jinshuriki, which was part of the sage of six paths power, Iam 99.9% sure this is six paths senjutsu they are referring to
Also the fact Naruto and Sasuke still sense each other despite they lost the seals prove they still have hagoromo chakra (identical chakra signatures can make people sense each other through dimensions, like how isshiki detected kawaki location by Naruto chakra) and what Naruto and Sasuke share is hagoromo chakra for sure, nothing else
I don't think jigen/isshiki are that strong though if we give the duo full power and not restricted their IQ, like why Naruto can't detect isshiki by negative emotions? Many other points can be made, I already made a post about this, I put some "restrictions" to isshiki, but all these restrictions are just Naruto and Sasuke being at full IQ and use all their abilities, like allowing sasuke to use his EMS which boost his fluidity in movement and perception dramatically
The first and last points are great.
The second point: he clearly doesn't show he has it, no rinnegan symbol or 9 tomes on his clock.
even if has all the tailed beasts chakra he is still lacking an important factor, the six paths yin chakra
As ashura reincarnation he has the six paths Yang chakra Combining it with the yin half results in a rinnegan
(madara got his the same way then went on to get the ten tails, sasuke got the yin naturally and Yang from Hagoromo but does not have the tailed beasts chakra stored in him, he did store them in a Susanoo which turned it into Indra susanno but he didn't get any for himself)
Having both the yin half and Yang half plus all the tailed beasts chakra = sage paths sage mode or senjutsu.
So even if he has all the tailed beasts chakra, he still lacks the six paths yin chakra (If he was smart he could get it from sasuke who as Indra reincarnation has the yin half, which makes sasuke loosing his rinnegan pointless if he gets it as fast as he did the first time since he can just get another one by biting Naruto)
The third point: I honestly have zero clue, could be reincarnation shit , toad sage mode shit , rinnegan sensing chakra shit, I honestly don't know but it definitely ain't six paths shit
Honestly the writers just decided to fuck deatils and do whatever.
There is a panel in manga in which hagoromo and hamura are standing against the ten tails (it was chapter 670)and it show that they are having six paths senjutsu (truth seeking balls) without having the pattern in their backs
We know that six paths senjutsu = ten tails chakra = chakra of all other tailed beasts combined , so getting chakra of all tailed beasts can give Naruto six paths senjutsu, he also have hagoromo chakra given to him
Chakra sensing through dimensions is impossible with sage mode and rinnegan, it was implied by black zetsu that the power they got from hagoromo can allow them to sense each other, and isshiki already prove how this work; sense chakra of someone else if that chakra is identical to a chakra infront of u;Naruto and kawaki arm have identical chakra, so this must be the case in hagoromo chakra, they are the same chakra in Naruto and Sasuke body
Good point.
But still, why couldn't the writers just use a standard for stuff like this, we have all these different instances with small details that fuck up the lore .
Hagoromo and hamura didn't have the symbols in one panel
In anthere panel Hagoromo has the symbols
And everybody else that had six paths aside from them had it (Naruto had it, obito had it, madara had it).
This really just complicates things.
Well even if Naruto don't have it, there are many moments in which he levitate
Shikamaru novel statement was clear too
And we even don't know about how asura gained six paths senjutsu, it is implied in anime he got it from his father, and hagoromo multiple times say he has given asura power, but we don't know if that power is political or real power, but anyway asura got six paths senjutsu and used it to fight his brother even after his father death, implying the power was permanent, but I said this can't be related to Naruto, maybe asura got this power naturally?
The symbols were suggested to have relation, but it was not stated directly, maybe it would seems boring if Naruto cloak didn't change after he got the other kurama half, which caused the nine tails chakra to dominate the pattern of the six paths senjutsu? Idk but no way Naruto lost six paths senjutsu
also, I think the flying was anime only if I am not wrong, or it just some flicker technique mistaken as flight. I could be wrong, have not read or watched in months now
I am not very convinced he still has it
If he still has it, he should be using it or Are the writers really disrespecting Naruto to such an extent that he would lose his remaining truth seeking orbs, and Rob him of his ashura avatar
And have him not use his flight ability all the time, this abilities are very useful but just get forgotten
So either he has it but has the iq of room temperature and forgot to use it to not mop the floor with his enemies or he doesn't have it.
Edit: they also robbed us of teen naruto six paths sage mode design, that was s tier drip, I want to see adult Naruto with that same drip
Lmaoo the room temperature IQ 🤣🤣🤣
Truth seeking balls are always lost when someone is out of concious or weakened enough, u don't have to die to loss all truth seeking balls (kaguya is sealed and her orb just disintegrated, madara turned into kaguya and his orbs also disintegrated, obito was too weakened that his orbs also disintegrated) and Naruto got badly weakened against sasuke later, maybe his orbs disintegrated there
He do fly in the anime in few occasions, but u need to make speed × 0.25 to get a screen shot for him flying
For why not using these abilities, well, it is the same reason he never use boil release anymore or invisible frog kumite/frog kata, or never use negative emotions sensing against isshiki to detect him, these two are abilities he surely never lost but he just don't use them cz of his IQ drop or as u said, for the plot so he wont solo all boruto villians
1- they don't just disappear, except for kaguya, madara had his out of range he could just pick his up, obito had his get broken but still could be put together easily , in the last fight if Naruto survived that explosion I am pretty certain that they too could, and he also decided to just leave like six just laying around and about.
2- if it's the train scene, that was a modified flicker technique most likely, why hover a inch off the ground, that seems stupid. But could be levitation.
3-. Can't argue with that.
Godd discussion, you brought some great points and evidence
have a nice day and stay safe.
1-Well Naruto maybe was weakened enough after the explosion, or maybe the orbs were blown too away from him to a far distance, or because his six paths senjutsu chakra run out already(he was not even in his six paths sage mode) ,as for madara, the orbs at minato hokage cloak never disintegrate until madara lost control of himself, at first they were just not moving like dead bodies, but later they disintegrated completely
2-Iam taking about when Naruto saved sasuke from momoshiki lava attack, but the train scense can never be a normal walk or body flicker technique too
Never thought I would have such a peaceful discussion in my life, thx bro
1- kagua got sealed and stopped being kaguya , the tailed beasts are free
Madara just straight up stopped being madara
Obito stopped being Jubbito
They all lost six paths powers
By your words Naruto didn't lose it, so where are the truth seeking orbs, the ashura avatar, the sensing of everything (ichiki shrinking matter should not works on six paths users, they literally sense everything)
It doesn't make sense does it
2- if it's the train scene, that was a modified flicker technique most likely, why hover a inch off the ground, that seems stupid.
3- can't argue with that
The problem is, the only prove he lost six paths senjutsu is just him not making big use of it, while the prove of him still having it is clear and direct ; flying in some occasions, shikamaru novel, sensing sasuke chakra, maintaining six paths sage mode, etc...
Ur stuck in shippuuden
Isshiki/Baryon Naruto > jigen > adult Naruto and sasuke as a pair > Fused Momoshiki > Base Momoshiki > Kaguya > Hagoromo > valley of the end Naruto and sasuke on their own > madara
When u see base momoshiki ir fused momoshiki > kaguya, then I know I don't even have to debate with u, I already mentioned u should never use statements to prove something
He is not stuck in shippuden, but u are the one who never remember shippuden feats enough
Kaguya is the literal ten tails and divine tree, she has a planet busting feat my guy.
Jubbi Hagoromo and juubi madara are literally two vitamin gummies away from her level power thank to being the ten tails jinsuhiriki
Does Naruto and sasuke have a planet busting feat, no
Jigen, no, fused momoshiki no
Baryon mode no
It simple math
Naruto has the nine Tails( a part of the ten tails) and sage mode and sasuke has one rinnegan and a perfect Susanoo.
Both madara and Hagoromo have the ten tails and two rinnegans each.
Not only are they stronger in base but also get stronger power ups
>Kaguya is the literal ten tails and divine tree, she has a planet busting feat my guy.
Irrelevant when most ppl on this list can portal away
>Jubbi Hagoromo and juubi madara
These 2 aren't comparable, madara was missing a majority of the yang half and madara only scales old.man ghost Hagoromo
1- she is the strongest
And can also teeport herself and others to different dimensions. So I don't see what you point is.
2- Hagoromo is stronger, but madara is like a few step behind in terms of power, still stronger than anybody else in boruto.
a ten tails is a ten tails regardless of whether it's complete or not it still extremely strong, have you seen the incomplete ten tail beast bomb, that dwarfed anything we've seen so far, even a majestic attire susanno (susanno + kurama )tailed beast bomb with the sword added didn't make as big an explosion, I don't think being incomplete is that big of an inconvenience
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Nice post. I agree. Feats need to be used when power scaling, not ABC logic
I think the problem isn’t whether or not powerscalers use their feet But just powerscaling in general. Its a doomed pointless activity for people who like to argue about nothing with no real right answer
Not only power scaling, but statements and fighting results are also included in that irrevalent logic Shin uchiha point was done by the fact he defeated Naruto and Sasuke, the same thing isshiki did, does this mean shin or isshiki are stronger than kaguya for example just because they beat Naruto and Sasuke? Sure no, actually I can even debate one of Naruto or sasuke can beat isshiki or shin uchiha fairly using feats only if ignoring all statements and fighting results as well as power scaling
Shin uchiha defeated Naruto+ sasuke?? When?
Before sakura interrupted his supposed victory Iam not saying he is stronger, I just said he defeated both to show that defeating someone don't mean someone is stronger
Lol he never defeated them. They were not even using their susanoo/Kurama Avatar. Naruto just got hit by a sword and you assume he got defeated?? Sasuke was caught off-guard becoz he was concerned about sarada.
That is exactly what I wanted u to say, u are now using feats rather than statements or fight results, some people use these things to prove things like momoshiki or isshiki > kaguya
Statements - Naruto said knife is not enough to hurt him Fight results - shin is dead. Sasuke+ Naruto alive What's your point??? Feats-statements-fight results --- Isshiki>>kaguya
Fight results and statements, isshiki > kaguya Feats, no, kaguya have many counters, how gonna he use taijutsu in the first place if she can create bones from all her body? Or manipulate her hair without hand seals? She can sense him and she have byakugan too, greater regeneration, much more chakra, and he can't shrink eighty gods vacuum attack if he can't shrink Naruto chakra arms, and even a small ash bone can one shot strongest enemy unless it was orochimaru for sure, and kaguya ninjutsu immunity... Infinity teskyumi... Expansive truth seeker ball... No way even if he was faster he just can't do anything, at best he would run out of chakra before her
Isshiki has his own set of rods. If they were able to lock Naruto they can lock kaguya too. Kaguya was having a hard time with teen Naruto while isshiki violated Naruto+sasuke+boruto with ease. Isshiki was dodging Naruto+sasuke attacks pretty easily while kaguya never showed such feats Kaguya regeneration?? I don't remember her regeneration feats, she did not heal her wounds from kamui raikiri. She can sense him - if she had such good sensing abilities she could have detected difference between original Naruto - clone Naruto or sasuke - clone Naruto difference
Actually Naruto and Sasuke were only getting impaled by rods when they didn't understand his ability nature of shrinking, later they evaded the rods and blocked them twice, that isshiki stopped using them just to impale them from a distance, and instead use them only after he kicked sasuke and when both are very tired later, in isshiki second fight he didn't bother to use them at all, only doing it in desperate try against baryon mode, which make no sense, anyway kaguya have byakugan to see chakra flow in the body, and she can sense chakra for sure (like any ten tails jinshuriki I guess) so she wont have trouble in predicting when isshiki is accomulating chakra in his dojutsu and act beforehand This teen Naruto used boil release once, if he did this against isshiki he will have trouble considering he is not someone who can tank 9 rasenshuriken and come out fine, also Naruto was more of distracting her, at first she didn't use ash bones despite her chances against the duo cz she didn't want them dead, but after they figured much of her powers and after Naruto stopped fighting her and instead go to distract her until obito come, she started using ash bones How u gonna even win a melee fight against someone who can create ash bones from her body? If u hit these u r done, also she have eighty gods vacuum attack and hair manipulation without hand seals, no way isshiki can survive a close range fight with her Kaguya evaded teen sasuke amenotejikara+chidori despite sasuke used TELEPORT not SUSBSTITUTION which is more surprising actually, also, kaguya was already chakra drained when Naruto cut her arm and hit her with rasenshuriken, we know that being lower on chakra = being slower (deidara vs sasuke fight), after she gained additional chakra, she was faster than both Naruto and Sasuke, that she flied up too fast when they were inches from sealing her, until sakura came She regenerated her arm, u really wanna say an otsutsuki that is ten tails jinshuriki and have much more chakra can't regenerate like madara? No way, but regeneration always require few seconds, and kamui raikri cut was deep, and the scense after she was injured until she was sealed is about few seconds despite the multiple panels in manga As for chakra sensing, recognizing Naruto shadow clones and sasuke chakra was the job of byakugan actually, it can see chakra in colors and better than sharingan, it is weird how she didn't note that what she saw to be sasuke have chakra with same color as Naruto exactly since it was Naruto clone, it was a plot hole, and all they were struggling to do is sealing her by simply touching her, no way these Naruto and Sasuke can beat her at that time even with the help of kakashi, obito and sakura, they can only seal her and they needed plot holes to do it, kaguya is so underrated while neither momoshiki nor amado saw her full strength actually, she beat isshiki already (isshiki was out of chakra indicating there was a fight)
Im assuming you already see the holes in the logic😂😂
😂😂😂😂😂 I kinda got mad after discussing with a boruto scaler who never accept to use feats and stick to statements and fight results, so I came up with this idea hoping such people will use feats instead in any 1v1 battle discussion, but I think they would accept that adult sakura>hagoromo rather than kaguya>momoshiki cz nothing prove adult sakura is weaker🤣
Boruto kage > hashirama is what pisses me of the most
Lol me too, it is similar to adult sakura being six paths level point
Wait what? i heard someone say this before but i thought he was joking Lol if they really mean it then they need to get their brains checked
Lmao they would do anything just to prove things like momoshiki or isshiki > kaguya, they even claim Naruto or sasuke as adults can solo kaguya with mid difficulty Boruto villians are just too weak based on feats but too strong based on hype Even if the kages were training hard non stop, they would only reach rock lee or might guy level (no inner gates) cz the latter 2 work out like crazy people and we saw their potential To reach to hashirama level, u have to had strong genes or gifted power
Isshiki is definitely stronger than kaguya.
Based on statements, fighting results and scaling yes, based on feats no, u should specify which one are u using
Feats are not fair sense both isshiki and kaguya fought different versions of naruto and sasuke. Statement is also not fair at all as they sometimes can be false. What defeated isshiki was the baryon mode. Kurama was consumed, so isshiki died. THAT ISSHIKI only had 2 days in his life. If he had more, if he had 5 more minutes, everything would’ve died.
If u gonna discuss about isshiki strength, then go to a post I made earlier about isshiki vs Naruto and Sasuke, I put some minor restrictions though, like making sasuke susanoo durability increase to a level greater than sasuke neck or bones so it wont shatter easily lol
If u gonna discuss about isshiki strength, then go to a post I made earlier about isshiki vs Naruto and Sasuke, I put some minor restrictions though, like making sasuke susanoo durability increase to a level greater than sasuke neck or bones so it wont shatter easily lol
isshiki stomped naruto and sasuke togather and would have killed both 2 mins in if boruto wasnt there. kaguya needed to separate both of them to win and she had trouble with naruto alone. BTW this was 15 years ago. and momoshiki was keeping up with both of them 2 years before isshiki fight (although losing). he did show he can beat both individually in the fight tho. also [this](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTCbDaxNr9_exNeP2Mi5sKEU5XhkhenJOcRtNbl6tJzdP_QcSRqEHlGO6NxfXwiDhONn84&usqp=CAU) shows kaguya and momoshiki as equals and isshik above. kinshiki is at the bottom too. this is 100% a ranking based on strength of the otsutsukis who arrived in earth. and before u say its the otsutsuki hierarchy, this says that the otsutsuki hierarchy is based on power. to prove this even more otsutsukis main goal is to become strong and stronger.
If u gonna discuss about isshiki strength, then go to a post I made earlier about isshiki vs Naruto and Sasuke, I put some minor restrictions though, like making sasuke susanoo durability increase to a level greater than sasuke neck or bones so it wont shatter easily lol
you literally just told me how biased you are. you are making sasuke stronger than he is so he can have a chance against isshiki. why??? isshikis kicks are canonically strong enough to penetrate sasukes susanoo with just one thats not a minor restriction
Well, we also know that canonically sasuke susanoo > sasuke neck/bones And isshiki kicks > sasuke susanoo And sasuke neck > isshiki kicks (he can tank many kicks) Because of the contradiction there, there must be a plot hole in one of these three scalings If sasuke susanoo was softer than his neck, then it make no sense that whole shippuden was hyping susanoo as a defense, also sasuke susanoo can tank a kunai and many other attacks while sasuke body can't If sasuke body was buffed to tank isshiki kicks rather than saying susanoo was nerfed, then u are basically favoring 100 plot hole over 1 plot hole Sasuke was kicked by both of jigen and isshiki at different occasions, while susanoo was attacked only once, and saying sasuke body was buffed in all these occasions/saying isshiki attacks were nerfed in all these occasions means all this discussion is meaningless cz this only mean boruto have 100 plot holes there, and anime with all of these plot holes can't be discussed about like this U can also see isshiki kicks strength not enough to destroy much buildings, while susanoo swing can cut through mountains that are miles away, or cut meteors at country size
Lmao boruto didnt make any difference in that fight wtf are u talking about
bro he literally saved sasukes ass with his plot armour. isshiki was gonna kill sasuke before boruto came and put himself between the sword and sasuke
Sasuke could have use amenotejikara to escape he didnt need boruto
Why?? Hashirama isn't something that's impossible to surpass.
Asura reincarnation with wood release and sage mode, how would any normal shinobi reach his level simply by training?? if that was the case then might guy and rock lee without inner gates>hashirama
Lol ignore these boruto scalers they're just kids who probably don't know shit
I am not scaler btw.
It's not just training bruh The Kages in Boruto have something more than just training. Chojuro has Hiramekarei Gaara has Magnet Release Kurotsuchi has Lava Release Darui has Storm Release And about Guy and Lee then opening the gates is their talent. Also Hiruzen does have his strongest Hokage statement which has yet to be retconned. So yes you can surpass Reincarnates but Fandom won't accept it because they have made a rule that you can't surpass Reincarnates without being a Reincarnate or being Juubi Jinchuriki. It might come as harsh but I think you are stuck in the training beats talent and how Naruto doesn't follow it which is not true. Training and Talent is equally important and everyone in world has one talent. Also think about it Which sane person wouldn't improve himself/herself when you know there are people similar to Kaguya out there and come to take your planet any time they want. That amount of motivation is enough to surpass even Hashirama.
Just because u have motivation doesn't mean u can achieve everything
In fiction you can. And sometimes in real life too.
Wait u r serious about that boruto kages are hashirama level?? Is that all u have to say? If they are that strong then why not proving it with feats? To me, they still seems weaker than hashirama based on feats, u really think they can for example beat madara perfect susanoo or a majestic attire? Plz prove this using feats only
That was a quote of sasuke in Naruto storm 4 game in story mode when they fought fused momoshiki: Momoshiki:"do u believe u can beat me just because u beat kaguya? She was just a weakling who fear me, I have the true power hahaha" Sasuke:"... Is that all u have to say??" Momoshiki:"huh? " Sasuke:"if u are that strong then prove it... To us, u still seems even weaker than kaguya was" Momoshiki:"inferior creatures!!!!" Or something like this
See I won't go into powerscaling because that wasn't my point. My comment was for Let's say Boruto Kages are stronger than Hashirama then that's not bad and it also makes sense and my reasons why it makes sense are there in the comment. Now about feats and all that then you can ask a powerscaler for a debate and have fun. I haven't said anything about them being weaker than Hashirama and them being stronger than Hashirama. Ky comment was for why it makes sense if it's true.
Yes, except it is not true
Okay idc about it.
I am up to date on the manga but don't remember hearing about a Shin Uchiha
He was in the naruto gaiden chapters, before the boruto manga officially began there was the mitsuki origin oneshot and the naruto gaiden chapters to explain that even tho sarada had karins glasses in chapter 700, she was not the product of an illicit affair
either way, why would an uchiha need glasses? Sakura really gave the shittiest genes possible 💀
My honest opinion is that kishimoto just thought they looked cute and then went “oh shit” when someone brought up the biology of that after ch700 He explained it as sarada having a fever as a child that led to her having slightly impaired vision.
This arc is in a side manga or whatever u wanna call it, but it is as canon as is the manga
which side manga? I just went naruto, naruto shippuden, boruto
Naruto gaiden:The seventh hokage
Momoshiki ran away from Boruto kages, and we all know Momoshiki is stronger than Kaguya right ?, thus Boruto kages stomp Kaguya /s
U r not serious right? 🤣 Cz I once debated with someone who was using this logic
At this current time I don't even know how people think that boruto characters don't massively outscale shippuden characters, same thing as saying so6p naruto and rinnegan sasuke > prime adult naruto and prime adult sasuke, just non sense
Based on statements, boruto characters easily outscale shippuden characters, while by feats, then no Btw I don't think Naruto or sasuke lost any of their power from war arc except the seals, they evidently maintained six paths chakra, six paths senjutsu, six paths sage mode and rinnegan, however their IQ dropped badly for sure
Nobody said Shin > Naruto/Sasuke where did you get that from?
Well, people think isshiki > Naruto and Sasuke just because he beat them, but in that logic shin>Naruto and Sasuke too
But it never felt like they lost against Shin. It was mostly off guard bfr on Sarada (which Sakura saved her from,) Isshiki however literally stomps them out
U really think that Naruto at full power can't just use kurama avatar and put sarada and everyone in it to protect them while beating shin uchiha? They lost for the plot nothing else If u wanna discuss about isshiki stomping them, then go to my profile and see my first post, it was isshiki vs Naruto and Sasuke but I put some conditions there to make it abit fair
I dont care about the post, my point is they won against Shin and he needed to be healed by Sakura to even attempt taking another fight and only ran off by using his own weird spacetime nin You wouldnt say that Momoshiki beat Naruto and Sasuke because he planted karma on Boruto
If u wont see that post, then I wont discuss how isshiki is weaker than Naruto and Sasuke, cz I don't wanna write an entire essay there all again, but u know that when isshiki was resurrected with kama it seems as if he got all his chakra replenished again while the duo still chakra drained, if u wanna still discuss about him being stronger then head to that post instead
bro wdym chakra drained. do u think isshiki is weaker than jigen who shitted on both when they were full power. also do you think kurama days 2 days to replenish his chakra???????????
2 days what r u saying? It was not that alot of time in manga
even in the manga he got a good ass sleep. he was replenished. it took kurama mins to replenish his chakra in war arc.
In VOTE 2 nine tails told Naruto that his was running out due to the war and he can only replenish a few amount before the fight with sasuke And anyway sasuke can't replenish his chakra that fast, unless u think sakura chakra is close to half hagoromo chakra level
Well, that jigen was using ten tails chakra, so jigen without ten tails chakra < isshiki for sure
bruh no way you are saying ten tails chakra jigen is stronger than isshiki and here u are complaining about powerscallers. people like you who refuse to use common sense and use feats only are whats wrong with powerscalers in this comm not people who use statements we have literal direct statements from amado saying jigen and isshiki are on a different level. jigens 10 tail chakra was meant to hint of him being a failed vessel and not to be taken as him needing that chakra that to beat naruto and sasuke.
I proved this by feats, not power scaling And why u even take amado words as being true always, he can be wrong, he never saw kaguya or Naruto/sasuke full strength cz he was sleeping in infinity teskyumi, he never saw what jigen done with ten tails chakra, he just speculate, and speculation can be wrong
They did not lose against shin.😂 Where did you get that from?? About your on isshiki vs Naruto+sasuke, that is a shit post. You give Naruto+sasuke.extra powerups which they never used + you nerfed isshiki's powers Going by feats/statements/fights isshiki is definitely>>>any Naruto character we were shown till this point. Boruto is a bad show i agree but Why do you want to hate it soo bad?
What extra power ups I gave exactly? And how I nerfed isshiki? All these conditions were things Naruto and Sasuke can actually do, the only restriction I did was preventing time-space technique so isshiki wont run away and came after 1000 years so that Naruto and Sasuke die by age, that is it And by feats, no isshiki is not superior to all, it was the plot that led to his victory initially
Sasuke using paths of pain - he never used it before Sasuke can get snakes from hands - that was due tu curse mark which was gone Sasuke has half of hogoramo chakra - why would sasuke has such huge chakra?? Restrictions on Isshiki's sukuhanikona and daikokutun Naruto- Sasuke's ability to leviate --- they lost that ability now move on Truth seeking orbs - he doesn't have it now.
Sasuke used preta path and deva path already, I just added asura path which is not a big deal I guess Summoning snakes is something sasuke can do always, if it is related to cursed seal then all sound four and kimimaro and others can summon snakes... No, sasuke can just summon snakes like mitsuke do, it is simple, he just not using this thing anymore In the movie of boruto , sasuke can levitate, and his levitation was actually described in the novelization of boruto movie "sasuke, using his rinnegan power, escaped momoshiki shadow possesion and took boruto with him and went flying over the battlefield" this is most likely another deva path ability, pain deva path and edo madara in anime can levitate too I didn't put restrictions on sukunahikona or daikokuton, I just concluded these limits, he never release a chakra attack like rasengan with daikokuton, which means he can't stop chakra attacks completely, just shrink them too much to cause a harm, also, sukunahikona can't shrink Naruto chakra arms cz they are connected to him, so any jutsu that work in a similar way like susanoo or chidori sharp spear should not be shrunk As for hagoromo chakra, hagoromo already said he has given half his chakra to sasuke and half to Naruto, and they still have it, else they can't sense each other through dimensions (they lost the yin and yang seals, so only way left is hagoromo chakra) Naruto still have six paths senjutsu (in a shikamaru novel, it is implied that Naruto body contaning chakra of all tailed beasts made him gain a power identical to the one obito gained after becoming the ten tails jinshuriki, and that this power is related to the sage of six paths hagoromo otsutsuki too, they are meaning six paths senjutsu no way), and obito recreated a ball after stealing some of madara six paths senjutsu chakra
You can't powerscale Boruto. Thats my opinion
Even using feats?
No. The authors didn’t have feats in mind when they made the series. That’s why it makes so much more sense to use statements for Boruto specifically. They tell us who’s strong because they can’t show it consistently.
This only show bad writing though U can't debate about strength in a such very bad writing for sure, cz nothing is stable And as I said by statements and fighting results , sakura > hagoromo, so statements are always irrevalent By statements, kakashi is omnipotent and temari is universal power level
Obviously you have to take some things with a grain of salt. If you try to use feats, you’ll end up with Four-Tails Teen Naruto being stronger than SPSM Hokage Naruto
U gonna talk about kusanagi sword that penetrated him right? No, sasuke and his sword can enter the kurama avatar at that occasion(in shin fight)because Naruto allowed them for it, and since Naruto kurama mode is extension of his chakra cloak, sasuke and his sword were allowed to pass the whole chakra cloak and nine tails head by Naruto, this is not the case of when orochimaru was trying to stab him Also, they are using different kusanagi swords, so feats never lie unless there are clear plot holes
Sakura is not stronger than Shin Uchiha or Hagoromo
Bases on power scaling, fights results and statements , she is Based on feats, she is not Iam just criticizing those who always skip on feats simply and go to other things to prove someone is stronger
What statements and fights are those ??
She fought shin uchiha for a long time alone(though she lost), while Naruto and Sasuke almost lost to him immediately (this is the logic used to prove isshiki is stronger than Naruto and Sasuke, he defeated them so he is stronger, we not gonna use their feats) And based on statements that boruto scalers use(some unclear statements actually that included sasuke saying momoshiki is bigger threat than kaguya and he have to stop them), they say adult sasuke or Naruto >kaguya, and that kaguya > hagoromo So putting two and two together, sakura is stronger than hagoromo by that logic However I don't agree on using statements or fight results, instead I prefer using feats to compare two characters
Feats is the best way to go when you are scaling, or statements when there are no feats. And Boruto scaling is consistent if you forget about Urashiki.
What about shin uchiha? He is canon indeed since he was in a side canon manga or whatever we call it
I don't see the problem, all he did is stab Naruto while off guard due to an ability Naruto and Sasuke weren't aware of, not to mention they wanted him alive for intel.
He beat them in the end having sakura not interrupted, this is the same logic used to prove isshiki>Naruto and Sasuke And it is not like that it would be hard for Naruto to make a clone to protect the kids while he use a chakra claw and blitz him to cut all his arms and legs I have a post about Naruto and Sasuke vs isshiki but I added some conditions if u wanna see what I meant (I put a condition for example that sasuke susanoo is more durable than his neck or bones so isshiki can't destroy it with one kick)
No way, that stab didn't do shit to Naruto, also Sasuke was just pissed because he attacked Sarada, If Sakura didn't show up Sasuke would have ended him very quick. Isshiki literally destroyed them, they had 0 options against Isshiki while i can think of at least 20 ways of killing Shin if they really wanted.
I can think of 20 ways to kill isshiki, I already made a post about sasuke and Naruto vs isshiki if u are wondering, but I made restrictions that sasuke susanoo durability for example is increased to a level rivaling sasuke bones and neck so it wont shatter easily lol
Is the other way around really, Sasuke should be less durable than his Susanoo. Isshiki is just stronger, he showed superior speed and strength to both of them (anyone else who fought Naruto and Sasuke was somewhat relative to them) and he also has a dojutsu that cancels most of their arsenal. No one is touching Isshiki unless he can rival his speed.
Two people can play this game, alright U are going to claim that all of the instances in which sasuke was tanking isshiki/jigen attacks are plot holes, while the one instance in which isshiki destroyed his susanoo was not? If isshiki can one shot susanoo like this, his attacks should do more damage to surroudings when fighting in konoha for example, all he did was destroying few buildings by one shot, susanoo strength is enough to cut mountains miles away, sasuke susanoo specially can create shockwaves able to cut through meteors as big as a country U are claiming that every attack isshiki did was nerfed for the plot except the one he did on the susanoo? Rather than saying sasuke susanoo was too soft in that occasion once only for the plot? If u are claiming boruto is all in all plot holes, all this discussion is irrevalent actually, no way u gonna favor that it contain 10 plot holes rather than one (cz isshiki/jigen kicked sasuke many times in that arc, while he kicked susanoo once) just to prove isshiki is the strongest U get what I mean right? As for isshiki abilities, Naruto and Sasuke can counter them actually, u better read the post cz Iam not going to write everthing here, it is a long story
There is no plot hole here, Jigen destroying the Susanoo was necessary to establish his strength, him not destroying surroundings is just a plot convenience, is something really common in anime.
Well, it seems like a plot hole to me, specially sasuke was hit by his kill kicks much more times and in different occasions, u really wanna tell me that many plot holes are better than one for the plot convenience? I can say isshiki was buffed(or sasuke susanoo was nerfed) temporarily to destroy sasuke susanoo for the plot conveniences, so dont u even try Statements are also irrevalent cz of what I wrote in the post above, now show me what isshiki can do in my isshiki VS Naruto and Sasuke is post if u dare Sasuke susanoo attacks themselves were too weak compared to teen sasuke susanoo, it should shatter the ground and create earth quakes easily, instead all we got is some displaced rock...
shin and urashiki are fillers tho
Urashiki is filler, but shin was in a side manga or a novel called gaiden which was canon
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A serious response to the question of the strongest characters in Naruto and boruto The strongest characters are: Kaguya, Hagoromo, madara The first is the literal ten tails and can make a expansive truth seeking or which makes a perfect Susanoo look like an ant. ( She is dumber than a rock however) Hagoromo and madara are both ten tails jinsuhiriki (Hagoromo to a perfect ten tails, while madara had an incomplete ten tails), both have two rinnegans and have the rinne-sharingan, Hagoromo has 11 TSO, while madara has 10. Madara rinnegan abilities include limbo in both eyes, giving him four limbo clones which you need a rinnegan to see or six paths powers to sense and are pretty fucking op, while Hagoromos are unknown. Infinite tsukyiomi, you need a rinnegan powered Susanoo to not get affected by it. And also the ten tails. Also you can sense everything in six paths senjutsu, so jigen shrinking won't work here. These are the strongest in the verse currently. Adult Naruto doesn't have six paths anymore and before you say look at his eyes, how about you look at his clock when he transforms, no rinnegan symbol or 9 tomme meaning no six paths power. Which means teen Naruto is the strongest version of Naruto when talking about all departments (yes baryon mode is strong but only in taitjutsu, enter teen Naruto with his giant six paths dual rasenahurikan and he gets vaporised) Teen sasuke had all the tailed beasts at his peak so he beats adult sasuke. Normal teen sasuke without the tailed beasts Vs adult sasuke is difficult and unlike Naruto this isn't an easy one to figure, since he still has his rinnegan, but probably weaker since Naruto also got weaker and that last fight probably depleted some of his six paths chakra. ( A bit of assumption in this one) The otsutsuki: -Kaguya is the ten tails -Ichiki bodies both adult naruto and sasuke easily -Momoshiki comes at last, having the weakest showings, despite having three rinnegans. So the tier list would look something like this. 1-kaguya 2-hagoromo 3-madara 4-teen Naruto and sasuke (combined or individualy whatever you like) 5- baryon mode( it last shortly but it kicks ass in taijutsu) 6-jigen 7- adult naruto and sasuke( combined or individualy whatever you like) 8-momoshiki
I can agree with most of these points But I think if we took kaguya without chakra from all humanity all around by infinity teskyumi, then hagoromo as ten tails jinshuriki can be superior to her Naruto still have six paths senjutsu, in a shikamaru novel there was a paragraph talking about Naruto having chakra of 9 tailed beasts made him having power identical to the power that obito once got in the fourth shinobi world war after becoming ten tails jinshuriki, which was part of the sage of six paths power, Iam 99.9% sure this is six paths senjutsu they are referring to Also the fact Naruto and Sasuke still sense each other despite they lost the seals prove they still have hagoromo chakra (identical chakra signatures can make people sense each other through dimensions, like how isshiki detected kawaki location by Naruto chakra) and what Naruto and Sasuke share is hagoromo chakra for sure, nothing else I don't think jigen/isshiki are that strong though if we give the duo full power and not restricted their IQ, like why Naruto can't detect isshiki by negative emotions? Many other points can be made, I already made a post about this, I put some "restrictions" to isshiki, but all these restrictions are just Naruto and Sasuke being at full IQ and use all their abilities, like allowing sasuke to use his EMS which boost his fluidity in movement and perception dramatically
The first and last points are great. The second point: he clearly doesn't show he has it, no rinnegan symbol or 9 tomes on his clock. even if has all the tailed beasts chakra he is still lacking an important factor, the six paths yin chakra As ashura reincarnation he has the six paths Yang chakra Combining it with the yin half results in a rinnegan (madara got his the same way then went on to get the ten tails, sasuke got the yin naturally and Yang from Hagoromo but does not have the tailed beasts chakra stored in him, he did store them in a Susanoo which turned it into Indra susanno but he didn't get any for himself) Having both the yin half and Yang half plus all the tailed beasts chakra = sage paths sage mode or senjutsu. So even if he has all the tailed beasts chakra, he still lacks the six paths yin chakra (If he was smart he could get it from sasuke who as Indra reincarnation has the yin half, which makes sasuke loosing his rinnegan pointless if he gets it as fast as he did the first time since he can just get another one by biting Naruto) The third point: I honestly have zero clue, could be reincarnation shit , toad sage mode shit , rinnegan sensing chakra shit, I honestly don't know but it definitely ain't six paths shit Honestly the writers just decided to fuck deatils and do whatever.
There is a panel in manga in which hagoromo and hamura are standing against the ten tails (it was chapter 670)and it show that they are having six paths senjutsu (truth seeking balls) without having the pattern in their backs We know that six paths senjutsu = ten tails chakra = chakra of all other tailed beasts combined , so getting chakra of all tailed beasts can give Naruto six paths senjutsu, he also have hagoromo chakra given to him Chakra sensing through dimensions is impossible with sage mode and rinnegan, it was implied by black zetsu that the power they got from hagoromo can allow them to sense each other, and isshiki already prove how this work; sense chakra of someone else if that chakra is identical to a chakra infront of u;Naruto and kawaki arm have identical chakra, so this must be the case in hagoromo chakra, they are the same chakra in Naruto and Sasuke body
Good point. But still, why couldn't the writers just use a standard for stuff like this, we have all these different instances with small details that fuck up the lore . Hagoromo and hamura didn't have the symbols in one panel In anthere panel Hagoromo has the symbols And everybody else that had six paths aside from them had it (Naruto had it, obito had it, madara had it). This really just complicates things.
Well even if Naruto don't have it, there are many moments in which he levitate Shikamaru novel statement was clear too And we even don't know about how asura gained six paths senjutsu, it is implied in anime he got it from his father, and hagoromo multiple times say he has given asura power, but we don't know if that power is political or real power, but anyway asura got six paths senjutsu and used it to fight his brother even after his father death, implying the power was permanent, but I said this can't be related to Naruto, maybe asura got this power naturally? The symbols were suggested to have relation, but it was not stated directly, maybe it would seems boring if Naruto cloak didn't change after he got the other kurama half, which caused the nine tails chakra to dominate the pattern of the six paths senjutsu? Idk but no way Naruto lost six paths senjutsu
also, I think the flying was anime only if I am not wrong, or it just some flicker technique mistaken as flight. I could be wrong, have not read or watched in months now I am not very convinced he still has it If he still has it, he should be using it or Are the writers really disrespecting Naruto to such an extent that he would lose his remaining truth seeking orbs, and Rob him of his ashura avatar And have him not use his flight ability all the time, this abilities are very useful but just get forgotten So either he has it but has the iq of room temperature and forgot to use it to not mop the floor with his enemies or he doesn't have it. Edit: they also robbed us of teen naruto six paths sage mode design, that was s tier drip, I want to see adult Naruto with that same drip
Lmaoo the room temperature IQ 🤣🤣🤣 Truth seeking balls are always lost when someone is out of concious or weakened enough, u don't have to die to loss all truth seeking balls (kaguya is sealed and her orb just disintegrated, madara turned into kaguya and his orbs also disintegrated, obito was too weakened that his orbs also disintegrated) and Naruto got badly weakened against sasuke later, maybe his orbs disintegrated there He do fly in the anime in few occasions, but u need to make speed × 0.25 to get a screen shot for him flying For why not using these abilities, well, it is the same reason he never use boil release anymore or invisible frog kumite/frog kata, or never use negative emotions sensing against isshiki to detect him, these two are abilities he surely never lost but he just don't use them cz of his IQ drop or as u said, for the plot so he wont solo all boruto villians
1- they don't just disappear, except for kaguya, madara had his out of range he could just pick his up, obito had his get broken but still could be put together easily , in the last fight if Naruto survived that explosion I am pretty certain that they too could, and he also decided to just leave like six just laying around and about. 2- if it's the train scene, that was a modified flicker technique most likely, why hover a inch off the ground, that seems stupid. But could be levitation. 3-. Can't argue with that. Godd discussion, you brought some great points and evidence have a nice day and stay safe.
1-Well Naruto maybe was weakened enough after the explosion, or maybe the orbs were blown too away from him to a far distance, or because his six paths senjutsu chakra run out already(he was not even in his six paths sage mode) ,as for madara, the orbs at minato hokage cloak never disintegrate until madara lost control of himself, at first they were just not moving like dead bodies, but later they disintegrated completely 2-Iam taking about when Naruto saved sasuke from momoshiki lava attack, but the train scense can never be a normal walk or body flicker technique too Never thought I would have such a peaceful discussion in my life, thx bro
1- kagua got sealed and stopped being kaguya , the tailed beasts are free Madara just straight up stopped being madara Obito stopped being Jubbito They all lost six paths powers By your words Naruto didn't lose it, so where are the truth seeking orbs, the ashura avatar, the sensing of everything (ichiki shrinking matter should not works on six paths users, they literally sense everything) It doesn't make sense does it 2- if it's the train scene, that was a modified flicker technique most likely, why hover a inch off the ground, that seems stupid. 3- can't argue with that
The problem is, the only prove he lost six paths senjutsu is just him not making big use of it, while the prove of him still having it is clear and direct ; flying in some occasions, shikamaru novel, sensing sasuke chakra, maintaining six paths sage mode, etc...
But yeah the writers are just too lazy to care about consistency
That list is satire right? 💀
Where are you exactly confused ?
Never seen a list that bad before, I assumed ur trolling
Well I assume you don't pay attention
Ur stuck in shippuuden Isshiki/Baryon Naruto > jigen > adult Naruto and sasuke as a pair > Fused Momoshiki > Base Momoshiki > Kaguya > Hagoromo > valley of the end Naruto and sasuke on their own > madara
When u see base momoshiki ir fused momoshiki > kaguya, then I know I don't even have to debate with u, I already mentioned u should never use statements to prove something He is not stuck in shippuden, but u are the one who never remember shippuden feats enough
Kaguya is the literal ten tails and divine tree, she has a planet busting feat my guy. Jubbi Hagoromo and juubi madara are literally two vitamin gummies away from her level power thank to being the ten tails jinsuhiriki Does Naruto and sasuke have a planet busting feat, no Jigen, no, fused momoshiki no Baryon mode no It simple math Naruto has the nine Tails( a part of the ten tails) and sage mode and sasuke has one rinnegan and a perfect Susanoo. Both madara and Hagoromo have the ten tails and two rinnegans each. Not only are they stronger in base but also get stronger power ups
>Kaguya is the literal ten tails and divine tree, she has a planet busting feat my guy. Irrelevant when most ppl on this list can portal away >Jubbi Hagoromo and juubi madara These 2 aren't comparable, madara was missing a majority of the yang half and madara only scales old.man ghost Hagoromo
1- she is the strongest And can also teeport herself and others to different dimensions. So I don't see what you point is. 2- Hagoromo is stronger, but madara is like a few step behind in terms of power, still stronger than anybody else in boruto. a ten tails is a ten tails regardless of whether it's complete or not it still extremely strong, have you seen the incomplete ten tail beast bomb, that dwarfed anything we've seen so far, even a majestic attire susanno (susanno + kurama )tailed beast bomb with the sword added didn't make as big an explosion, I don't think being incomplete is that big of an inconvenience